March 1, 2024 • 12 mins
A new wave of Chinese people are leaving China after the Covid-19 pandemic and they’re headed to places that aren’t the typical destinations for Chinese immigrants in the past.
Bloomberg’s Lulu Chen tells us how China’s slowing economy, fears over new policies to redistribute wealth and Beijing’s handling of the pandemic created the perfect storm for this exodus. In today’s Big Take podcast, we look at the impact Chinese immigrants who move into these communities in far-flung places have, and what a rising outflow means for China’s future.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hey, it's Sarah at Bloomberg. We've got reporters in more
than one hundred bureaus around the world, including twenty four
in Asia, and that's where we're going today today on
the Big Take, I'm handing the mic over to my
colleague Wanha in Hong Kong. Here's one.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
We are on Prata Rut Bumpin' Road in downtown Bangkok,
where Jeffrey Liu has opened his first hot pot restaurant.
He recently immigrated to Thailand from China and he's still
learning how to pronounce the street's name.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
But Batala pompaint, Batta la pomp paint.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Locals say the street resembles the belly of a dragon,
and for Chinese that's good func shui for business because
it draws money in. That's why Liu started his restaurant
here and with so many other Chinese businesses moving in
the road is also known by another name, New China Street.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
You know what I mean. Chinatown is old and our
street is full of new Chinese restaurants and stores. You
hear Chinese spoken on the street, and it's also close
to the Chinese embassy.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Liu is thirty five and ambitious. He moved to Thailand
late last year, leaving behind his family in chung Qing,
one of China's biggest cities, and even though he's just arrived,
he's got big plans. He wants to open three more
hotpot restaurants this year, and he's planning to move his
family to Thailand permanently next year.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
I had visited Thailand about eight times before moving here.
I like Thailand a lot. There isn't much to miss
about China.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Liu is hardly alone in saying farewell to China.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
The number of people leaving the country in the past
two years reached three one hundred and ten thousand for
each year.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Lu Lu Chin is Bloomberg's senior editor on Asia Investing.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
And that's sixty percent more than the average for the
decade through twenty nineteen. What's interesting about this wave is
we haven't seen this kind of uptick in migration for
years and for the past two years. Suddenly there's a
huge uptick compared with the past decade.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Today on our show, a new wave of Chinese are
looking for the exit. Why are they leaving and what
does it say about China's future. This is the big
take from Bloomberg News. I'm wan ha. Many Chinese who
(02:51):
are leaving at the moment are part of the middle class,
a group who've seen their incomes rise along with China's economy.
In the last two decades.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
China rapid economic development overlapped with an error where the
Communist Party maintained relatively loose control over private lives, and
that was a period when the middle class thought they
were better off than their peers even in the US.
In some ways, thanks.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
To China's economic miracle, pockets of the population became extremely rich.
At one point, China was producing billionaires faster than any
other country, at the rate of two a week in
twenty seventeen, but that boom started to fade and the
mood shifted. One of the most significant pivots was in
(03:40):
twenty twenty one, when President Shijinping and the Communist Party
adopted a policy called Common Prosperity.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
S Cheni.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
That was aimed to close the wealth gap and lift
the country's poorest.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
And come seizing Ping for a second term, and he
looks at the country and says, wait a minute, China
at its core is a communist country and it needs
to go back to its roots. Even though some people
get rich, the affluent is still the minority, and that's
why he brought in the goal of common prosperity to
(04:19):
restore that balance.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
That Common Prosperity policy has spooked investors and many Chinese.
The new policy brought crackdowns on multiple industries, technology, property, education,
and even gaming.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
From today, children in China will only be allowed to
play online video games for three hours a week.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Crackdown on d group underscores Beijing's determination to rein in
big tech.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
And the government launch of sweeping crackdown on the wonder
billion dollar private education industry.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Well, the trickle effect is that when China cracks down
on these sectors, it's not just impacting the private companies
and the holders behind it. It actually impacts real people.
Think of all the people who are working up and
down the supply chain. So the effect is vast reaching.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
The crackdowns stretched for years, and just as China's middle
class was starting to really feel the pinch from the policies,
the pandemic struck and it hit a real nerve.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
So one of the people we talked to was a
person called Jason Swin, who lived a very good life,
very wealthy in Shanghai before the COVID lockdowns. He already
sent his daughter and wife to London because his daughter
was studying there, and for him, he thought that if
he stayed away from politics, kept a low profile, he
(05:51):
would still have a very good life in China. And
then the pandemic hit and it really broke him when
his pair died just weeks apart, and even though he
tried everything, he was not allowed to see them for
one last time. And he told our colleagues that when
he was holding their ashes in his hand, that was
(06:14):
the moment when he made up his mind that he
was going to leave China. And so a few weeks
after that he sold all his assets and then relocated
to London.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Fast forward to today, the China boom is long gone.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
The market has been absolutely hammered. Developers over the years
have building a way too many houses.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
If you travel around China see half complete buildings everywhere.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
High you look at.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Both the economic and the social problems that China is facing,
things are only unfortunately getting worse.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Some six trillion US dollars in market value has been
wiped out from Chinese and Hong Kong's since its peak
in twenty twenty one. Concerns about China's economic future has
people like Jeffrey Lu looking elsewhere for opportunities.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
After the pandemic. You know, the Chinese economy has been
going down here and every industry is just so competitive,
So I just wanted to explore and have fun.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Coming up after the break. Chinese immigrants leaving and taking
their assets with them. What does it mean for an
already struggling economy. We've heard the reasons why people are
(07:48):
leaving China. You've got a slowing economy, fears over new
policies to redistribute wealth, coupled with the trauma of living
in China during the pandemic. Lulu says, it becomes an
exodus of capital as well.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
It's one hundred and fifty billion US dollars flowing out
of China in twenty twenty three alone, based on estimates
from Natochus also Henley Partners. They had reports saying that
they estimate China saw the biggest millionaire exodus in twenty
twenty three as well.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
And the number of Chinese immigrating isn't expected to slow
down anytime soon.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Looking forward, it's estimated that at least seven hundred thousand
people will leave the country in the years up to
twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Those figures put China number four on a list of
countries with the largest net immigration now Lulu. If you
look at that list, which includes third world countries like
Pakistan and Bangladesh, China really stands out well.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
China is the world's second largest economy, doesn't have any
warfare or natural disasters that could cause widespread hunger and
the resurgence of net migration sugg as. The people are
voting with their feet.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
So we've got seven hundred thousand people looking for the
exit sign. Where are they going?
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Well? For the seven hundred one thousand people estimate, then
that's just for US, Australia and Canada, But based on
the interviews we've done and the research that we looked into,
they're also showing up in other places that are not typical,
like Vietnam, Japan, New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
And A big draw of these unconventional destinations are the
inviting policies and business opportunities. Countries like Portugal, Thailand and
Indonesia are attracting immigrants with so called golden visas. Those
who can invest big chunks of their money in these
countries will get full residents or even citizenship in return.
(09:58):
While this outflow of people and money is bad news
for China, many of the new countries people are flocking
to are benefiting from the immigration and investments.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
So in Vietnam, for example, it's provided job opportunities, higher
wages of senior managers that factories can earn as much
as sixty five K dollars a month, and that's about
sixteen times the average local wage.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
But not all the changes are well received. The influx
of Chinese is also creating tension in some places.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
In Thailand, it's caused resentment due to rising prices of property,
and there's complaints about Chinese disrespecting local customs. Another often
heard complaint is that Chinese don't use local suppliers and workers.
So the money circles within the Chinese business circle, and
(10:53):
it's a very delicate balance, and whenever you have different
ethnicities coming into a new community, it's bound to disrupt
the balance.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Back in China, while the number of migrants is a
drop compared to a population of one point four billion people,
the immigration reflects a larger concern about China's future.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
For the people we interview, they are worried that the
Chinese middle class life that they once enjoyed is in danger.
The reason that a lot of middle class Chinese thought
that they were better off than their US counterparts was
because they had upward social mobility. Their lives were not stagnant,
and they always thought that their children would have a
(11:36):
better life than theirs. Call it the China Dream, if
you will, and right now people are really questioning whether
the so called China dream is sustainable.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
This is the big take from Bloomberg News. I'm wanh.
This episode was produced by Young Young and Naomi Um.
The reporters for this story are Patham Sing, Mowana Jung,
Lee Wing, Zulu Win Gwinn Wing, Lisa Do, David Scanlon,
and Tao Jung. It was edited by Caitlin Kenney and
mixed by Young Young and Bronica Rodriguez. It was fact
(12:16):
checked by Tiffany Soy. Senior producers are Naomi Shaven and
Gilda de Carley. We get editorial direction from Elizabeth Ponso.
Nicole Beemster. Brower is our executive producer. Sage Bauman is
Bloomberg's head of podcast. Thanks for listening to the Big Take.
We'll be back Monday.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hey, it's Sarah at Bloomberg. We've got reporters in more
than one hundred bureaus around the world, including twenty four
in Asia, and that's where we're going today today on
the Big Take, I'm handing the mic over to my
colleague Wanha in Hong Kong. Here's one.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
We are on Prata Rut Bumpin' Road in downtown Bangkok,
where Jeffrey Liu has opened his first hot pot restaurant.
He recently immigrated to Thailand from China and he's still
learning how to pronounce the street's name.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
But Batala pompaint, Batta la pomp paint.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Locals say the street resembles the belly of a dragon,
and for Chinese that's good func shui for business because
it draws money in. That's why Liu started his restaurant
here and with so many other Chinese businesses moving in
the road is also known by another name, New China Street.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
You know what I mean. Chinatown is old and our
street is full of new Chinese restaurants and stores. You
hear Chinese spoken on the street, and it's also close
to the Chinese embassy.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Liu is thirty five and ambitious. He moved to Thailand
late last year, leaving behind his family in chung Qing,
one of China's biggest cities, and even though he's just arrived,
he's got big plans. He wants to open three more
hotpot restaurants this year, and he's planning to move his
family to Thailand permanently next year.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
I had visited Thailand about eight times before moving here.
I like Thailand a lot. There isn't much to miss
about China.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Liu is hardly alone in saying farewell to China.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
The number of people leaving the country in the past
two years reached three one hundred and ten thousand for
each year.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Lu Lu Chin is Bloomberg's senior editor on Asia Investing.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
And that's sixty percent more than the average for the
decade through twenty nineteen. What's interesting about this wave is
we haven't seen this kind of uptick in migration for
years and for the past two years. Suddenly there's a
huge uptick compared with the past decade.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Today on our show, a new wave of Chinese are
looking for the exit. Why are they leaving and what
does it say about China's future. This is the big
take from Bloomberg News. I'm wan ha. Many Chinese who
(02:51):
are leaving at the moment are part of the middle class,
a group who've seen their incomes rise along with China's economy.
In the last two decades.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
China rapid economic development overlapped with an error where the
Communist Party maintained relatively loose control over private lives, and
that was a period when the middle class thought they
were better off than their peers even in the US.
In some ways, thanks.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
To China's economic miracle, pockets of the population became extremely rich.
At one point, China was producing billionaires faster than any
other country, at the rate of two a week in
twenty seventeen, but that boom started to fade and the
mood shifted. One of the most significant pivots was in
(03:40):
twenty twenty one, when President Shijinping and the Communist Party
adopted a policy called Common Prosperity.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
S Cheni.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
That was aimed to close the wealth gap and lift
the country's poorest.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
And come seizing Ping for a second term, and he
looks at the country and says, wait a minute, China
at its core is a communist country and it needs
to go back to its roots. Even though some people
get rich, the affluent is still the minority, and that's
why he brought in the goal of common prosperity to
(04:19):
restore that balance.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
That Common Prosperity policy has spooked investors and many Chinese.
The new policy brought crackdowns on multiple industries, technology, property, education,
and even gaming.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
From today, children in China will only be allowed to
play online video games for three hours a week.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Crackdown on d group underscores Beijing's determination to rein in
big tech.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
And the government launch of sweeping crackdown on the wonder
billion dollar private education industry.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Well, the trickle effect is that when China cracks down
on these sectors, it's not just impacting the private companies
and the holders behind it. It actually impacts real people.
Think of all the people who are working up and
down the supply chain. So the effect is vast reaching.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
The crackdowns stretched for years, and just as China's middle
class was starting to really feel the pinch from the policies,
the pandemic struck and it hit a real nerve.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
So one of the people we talked to was a
person called Jason Swin, who lived a very good life,
very wealthy in Shanghai before the COVID lockdowns. He already
sent his daughter and wife to London because his daughter
was studying there, and for him, he thought that if
he stayed away from politics, kept a low profile, he
(05:51):
would still have a very good life in China. And
then the pandemic hit and it really broke him when
his pair died just weeks apart, and even though he
tried everything, he was not allowed to see them for
one last time. And he told our colleagues that when
he was holding their ashes in his hand, that was
(06:14):
the moment when he made up his mind that he
was going to leave China. And so a few weeks
after that he sold all his assets and then relocated
to London.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Fast forward to today, the China boom is long gone.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
The market has been absolutely hammered. Developers over the years
have building a way too many houses.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
If you travel around China see half complete buildings everywhere.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
High you look at.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Both the economic and the social problems that China is facing,
things are only unfortunately getting worse.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Some six trillion US dollars in market value has been
wiped out from Chinese and Hong Kong's since its peak
in twenty twenty one. Concerns about China's economic future has
people like Jeffrey Lu looking elsewhere for opportunities.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
After the pandemic. You know, the Chinese economy has been
going down here and every industry is just so competitive,
So I just wanted to explore and have fun.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Coming up after the break. Chinese immigrants leaving and taking
their assets with them. What does it mean for an
already struggling economy. We've heard the reasons why people are
(07:48):
leaving China. You've got a slowing economy, fears over new
policies to redistribute wealth, coupled with the trauma of living
in China during the pandemic. Lulu says, it becomes an
exodus of capital as well.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
It's one hundred and fifty billion US dollars flowing out
of China in twenty twenty three alone, based on estimates
from Natochus also Henley Partners. They had reports saying that
they estimate China saw the biggest millionaire exodus in twenty
twenty three as well.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
And the number of Chinese immigrating isn't expected to slow
down anytime soon.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Looking forward, it's estimated that at least seven hundred thousand
people will leave the country in the years up to
twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Those figures put China number four on a list of
countries with the largest net immigration now Lulu. If you
look at that list, which includes third world countries like
Pakistan and Bangladesh, China really stands out well.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
China is the world's second largest economy, doesn't have any
warfare or natural disasters that could cause widespread hunger and
the resurgence of net migration sugg as. The people are
voting with their feet.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
So we've got seven hundred thousand people looking for the
exit sign. Where are they going?
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Well? For the seven hundred one thousand people estimate, then
that's just for US, Australia and Canada, But based on
the interviews we've done and the research that we looked into,
they're also showing up in other places that are not typical,
like Vietnam, Japan, New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
And A big draw of these unconventional destinations are the
inviting policies and business opportunities. Countries like Portugal, Thailand and
Indonesia are attracting immigrants with so called golden visas. Those
who can invest big chunks of their money in these
countries will get full residents or even citizenship in return.
(09:58):
While this outflow of people and money is bad news
for China, many of the new countries people are flocking
to are benefiting from the immigration and investments.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
So in Vietnam, for example, it's provided job opportunities, higher
wages of senior managers that factories can earn as much
as sixty five K dollars a month, and that's about
sixteen times the average local wage.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
But not all the changes are well received. The influx
of Chinese is also creating tension in some places.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
In Thailand, it's caused resentment due to rising prices of property,
and there's complaints about Chinese disrespecting local customs. Another often
heard complaint is that Chinese don't use local suppliers and workers.
So the money circles within the Chinese business circle, and
(10:53):
it's a very delicate balance, and whenever you have different
ethnicities coming into a new community, it's bound to disrupt
the balance.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Back in China, while the number of migrants is a
drop compared to a population of one point four billion people,
the immigration reflects a larger concern about China's future.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
For the people we interview, they are worried that the
Chinese middle class life that they once enjoyed is in danger.
The reason that a lot of middle class Chinese thought
that they were better off than their US counterparts was
because they had upward social mobility. Their lives were not stagnant,
and they always thought that their children would have a
(11:36):
better life than theirs. Call it the China Dream, if
you will, and right now people are really questioning whether
the so called China dream is sustainable.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
This is the big take from Bloomberg News. I'm wanh.
This episode was produced by Young Young and Naomi Um.
The reporters for this story are Patham Sing, Mowana Jung,
Lee Wing, Zulu Win Gwinn Wing, Lisa Do, David Scanlon,
and Tao Jung. It was edited by Caitlin Kenney and
mixed by Young Young and Bronica Rodriguez. It was fact
(12:16):
checked by Tiffany Soy. Senior producers are Naomi Shaven and
Gilda de Carley. We get editorial direction from Elizabeth Ponso.
Nicole Beemster. Brower is our executive producer. Sage Bauman is
Bloomberg's head of podcast. Thanks for listening to the Big Take.
We'll be back Monday.
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