November 3, 2025 • 10 mins
The last time the United States saw layoff numbers this high was during the Covid-19 pandemic.
On today’s Big Take podcast, Bloomberg US Economy reporter Julia Fanzeres and host David Gura tackle the layoff wave of 2025: what it reveals about the state of the US economy — and what it means for the workers swept up in it.
Read more: Wave of US Layoffs Flash Early Warning Sign for Job Market
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bloomberg, Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I get a lot of push alerts on my phone,
and over the last few weeks it seemed like many
of them were about layoffs. Amazon planning to cut thousands
of corporate workers. Target will be eliminating about eighteen hundred rules.
Other tech giants like Meta, Google and Intel have also
made cuts this year. Paramount Skydance expected to eliminate around
(00:30):
two thousand jobs in the US, with additional layoffs internationally.
From Amazon to Microsoft, Walmart to ups, US companies have
been slashing away at their workforces. Julia Fanzirez covers the
US economy for Bloomberg, and I asked her, is this
the kind of layoff spike that we often see at
this time of year, or is something else going on?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
When you really look at it, it is not looking good.
It is some of the biggest job cuts at over
fifteen years. If you don't don't count the pandemic.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Employers and bankers and economists. Juliet talks to all of them,
and she's hearing again and again that these numbers could
be a sign that there's trouble ahead. I'm David Gerrett,
and this is the big take from Bloomberg News Today
on the show the Layoff Wave of twenty twenty five,
(01:22):
what it reveals about the state of the US economy
and what it means for the workers swept up in it.
And so far this year, US companies have announced layoffs
of nearly a million people. That's according to a report
(01:42):
from the outplacement firm Challenger, Gray and Christmas. The last
time the country saw layoff numbers that high was during
the COVID nineteen pandemic. Some of the bigger layoff headlines
have focused on cuts at tech companies, but the trend
goes beyond that. One industry UPS has cut workers, Lululemon
and Target. I asked Bloomberg's Julia Fanzerias, what's going on.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Each company is saying that there are specific reasons for
these layoffs. You know, in the government sector, a huge
reason is because of DOGE, while in other sectors, like
the tech sector, artificial intelligence has been driving it. But
it's all of these coming together around the same time
that is sending a warning sign to economists that more
is possibly to come.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Why are we seeing these layoffs now in the US economy?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
The economy is slowing, the labor market is slowing, so
that is a fact, and even without the US government
data coming out, that has been clear. Additionally, because there
have been these tariffs and economic uncertainty and prices are rising,
companies are trying to then cut their costs by cutting
their workforce instead of increasing costs on consumers. So that's
(02:49):
another big reason. The third reason is there have been
a lot of mergers. You know, for Paramount, it was
the reason merger with sky Dance, and so each company
has a specific reason. But those are the macroeconomic background
contacts that is impacting those layoffs.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Kind of stepping back and looking at the impact of
these trade policies, it seems like a lot of these
companies have successfully kept those higher prices from being passed
on to consumers. And I wonder if you could kind
of dovetail that their efforts to keep prices lower on
store shelves with maybe what we're seeing here, is there
any kind of causality there they might be having to
(03:24):
look for cuts elsewhere as a result of them trying
to keep their cost down, their product costs down.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
There is absolutely a causality there. They used to be
afraid of losing their employees, so they were labor hoarding
because from twenty twenty to twenty twenty two it was
very difficult to find workers. And now with higher prices,
they're being asked to make a decision. Either they increase
costs for consumers or they have to cut costs elsewhere.
And where are they going to cut costs? That's the workforce.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
So we've talked about trade policy as a reason for
this happening, talked about kind of government priorities, how about AI.
I mean, this is like the overwhelming story and markets
and the economy, and I know it's gotten some blame
as well that maybe companies, as they reckon with what
that means for productivity, as they reckon with how much
capex they're going to have to do, maybe this is
a reason why we're seeing these layoffs. As you've looked
(04:09):
at the data and talked to experts, what do they
say about the role that this massive expenditure in AI
is having on the economy.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I think it's interesting because a lot of companies don't
want to necessarily point to AI being the reason for layoffs,
but economists can see these layoffs happening. Obviously, there are
other macroeconomic factors leading to this, but artificial intelligence has
really been one of the biggest ones, and so much
so that Federal Reserve hair pal had a question about
this and even discuss the fact that these layoffs were
(04:35):
large and that they would have to keep looking at
the impact of artificial intelligence into the US economy.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
For many years, we've had this labor market where there
hasn't been a lot of churn, and that's been worrisome
to a lot of people. What does that say just
about the overall health of the labor market. I know
that we've seen the federalser have kind of focused more
intently now on the labor side of its dual mandate
against What does the job market tell us about the
health of the US economy more broadly?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
You know, when people here that you know there is
low firing and then also low hiring, they think that
that's a good thing, but in reality it's not because
then people who are out of work are finding difficulty
getting into work. Younger employees, young workers are having a
difficulty climbing the corporate ladder because they're not able to
find other opportunities. And so the FED and economists are
very worried about this. Economy where there is low turn
(05:20):
and that is because that is a sign of a
cooling economy. As you said, the Federal Reserve has been
keeping an eye on the labor market mandate, and in
recent meetings Jerome Powell actually mentioned the laugh of something
they have to keep a close eye on. And even
though economists and the Fed don't have the data to
guide them to see if that is really impacting unemployment
levels and jobless claims on a numerical if it's actually
(05:42):
moving the needle. They have to keep a close eye
on this. And it is because of the fact that
now this low, higher, low fire environment might be switching
over to a low, higher, more fire environment.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Julia, As you look at these announcements, are we seeing
much from these companies about sort of what it might
or might not pretend for the future. In other words,
are they encouraging people to look at these in isolation,
or are they telling a kind of broader story about
the way it's reshaping their outlook on who they need
to have on staff, who they need to hire.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
It's a little bit of both. They are not trying
to make it seem like these cuts will continue for
a long time. A lot of these companies. That's not
their goal. They're trying to say, oh, you know, this
is the end of the culling that we needed. This is,
you know, the end of the restructuring. But I also
think they are giving signs of where the jobs will
be in the future. They have specifically said, you know
that artificial intelligence has taken over chatbots customer service, They're
(06:36):
going to take over those entry level coding jobs. So
there are a lot of both. Elements of those messagings
are in these layoff conversations that companies are having.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Whatever reason these companies are giving for people on the
chopping block, layoffs or layoffs. So what's happening to all
those workers who've lost their jobs? That's next in the
(07:11):
midst of the government shutdown. It's impossible to know exactly
how many people have become unemployed so far this year,
but private sector estimates place that number at close to
a million. I asked Bloomberg's Julia Fanzera, is what the
job market looks like for them?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
These employees who have been laid off are having such
difficulty re entering the labor market. It can take months,
oftentimes over a year to find another job and these
workers are out of a job now, they're looking for
sometimes temporary, seasonal jobs and jobs that necessarily they wouldn't
have considered, but because they have no other options. And
I think that is also where the feed is very concerned,
(07:48):
because again, while low higher low fire might seem like
a good thing, it is these workers who are left
out of the labor market who are finding difficulty getting
back in Julia.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
How is that manifesting itself in the survey data that
we've seen.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
The recent consumer confidence survey was really showing that employees
aren't concerned and confidence. Consumer confidence in general in the
economy has you know, waned quite a bit, even though
it has necessarily trickled over to consumer spending. The confidence
that consumers have on the economy has dwindled, and these
workers increasingly are seeing the economy as harder place to
(08:22):
find a job.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
It was like a year ago we were talking a
lot about this being a really tight labor market. It
was very much a worker's job market. You kind of
ask for more money, be more choosy about the jobs
you wanted to take or where you wanted to stay,
races you could ask for. Now it sounds like we're
seeing this change underway, and I'm curious just at a
macro level what that means both for companies and for workers.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, workers are very much no longer in the driver's seed. Actually,
some recent data shows that, you know, worker pay increase
has slowed much, much, much more than anticipated. Especially young
workers are seeing some of like the slowest gains in
their pay increases, which is going to set them back
because this is already a generation that was less likely
(09:05):
to own a house, They have less investments in the
stock market, and so that's going to set them back
financially for quite a bit. But that is the difficulty.
Also is that you know, this is no longer a
worker's environment. They're really feeling this, and the wage growth
sometimes is barely barely barely keeping up with inflation.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I want to ask you lastly, when the US government
does reopen and we begin to get these data and
reports more regularly, again, what's the what's the one that
you're most eager to see as you continue to do
this reporting on the labor market.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Oh, I'm most eager to see the jobs report. I
think that's and that's really shifted in the past week.
I would say with these layoffs before the inflation report
was really the highlight. Everyone was very concerned, how are
they going to collect, you know, October prices because they
need those people in person going to brick and mortar
stores to collect those prices. But as these layoffs have
become a bigger story, there have been more headlines. Now
(09:59):
that jobs report is going to be very important and
seeing how that is going to impact the economy, that's
the one I'm most looking forward to.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gura.
To get more from The Big Take and unlimited access
to all of Bloomberg dot com, subscribe today at Bloomberg
dot com slash podcast offer. If you liked this episode,
make sure to follow and review The Big Take wherever
you listen to podcasts. It helps people find the show.
Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow
Bloomberg, Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I get a lot of push alerts on my phone,
and over the last few weeks it seemed like many
of them were about layoffs. Amazon planning to cut thousands
of corporate workers. Target will be eliminating about eighteen hundred rules.
Other tech giants like Meta, Google and Intel have also
made cuts this year. Paramount Skydance expected to eliminate around
(00:30):
two thousand jobs in the US, with additional layoffs internationally.
From Amazon to Microsoft, Walmart to ups, US companies have
been slashing away at their workforces. Julia Fanzirez covers the
US economy for Bloomberg, and I asked her, is this
the kind of layoff spike that we often see at
this time of year, or is something else going on?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
When you really look at it, it is not looking good.
It is some of the biggest job cuts at over
fifteen years. If you don't don't count the pandemic.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Employers and bankers and economists. Juliet talks to all of them,
and she's hearing again and again that these numbers could
be a sign that there's trouble ahead. I'm David Gerrett,
and this is the big take from Bloomberg News Today
on the show the Layoff Wave of twenty twenty five,
(01:22):
what it reveals about the state of the US economy
and what it means for the workers swept up in it.
And so far this year, US companies have announced layoffs
of nearly a million people. That's according to a report
(01:42):
from the outplacement firm Challenger, Gray and Christmas. The last
time the country saw layoff numbers that high was during
the COVID nineteen pandemic. Some of the bigger layoff headlines
have focused on cuts at tech companies, but the trend
goes beyond that. One industry UPS has cut workers, Lululemon
and Target. I asked Bloomberg's Julia Fanzerias, what's going on.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Each company is saying that there are specific reasons for
these layoffs. You know, in the government sector, a huge
reason is because of DOGE, while in other sectors, like
the tech sector, artificial intelligence has been driving it. But
it's all of these coming together around the same time
that is sending a warning sign to economists that more
is possibly to come.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Why are we seeing these layoffs now in the US economy?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
The economy is slowing, the labor market is slowing, so
that is a fact, and even without the US government
data coming out, that has been clear. Additionally, because there
have been these tariffs and economic uncertainty and prices are rising,
companies are trying to then cut their costs by cutting
their workforce instead of increasing costs on consumers. So that's
(02:49):
another big reason. The third reason is there have been
a lot of mergers. You know, for Paramount, it was
the reason merger with sky Dance, and so each company
has a specific reason. But those are the macroeconomic background
contacts that is impacting those layoffs.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Kind of stepping back and looking at the impact of
these trade policies, it seems like a lot of these
companies have successfully kept those higher prices from being passed
on to consumers. And I wonder if you could kind
of dovetail that their efforts to keep prices lower on
store shelves with maybe what we're seeing here, is there
any kind of causality there they might be having to
(03:24):
look for cuts elsewhere as a result of them trying
to keep their cost down, their product costs down.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
There is absolutely a causality there. They used to be
afraid of losing their employees, so they were labor hoarding
because from twenty twenty to twenty twenty two it was
very difficult to find workers. And now with higher prices,
they're being asked to make a decision. Either they increase
costs for consumers or they have to cut costs elsewhere.
And where are they going to cut costs? That's the workforce.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
So we've talked about trade policy as a reason for
this happening, talked about kind of government priorities, how about AI.
I mean, this is like the overwhelming story and markets
and the economy, and I know it's gotten some blame
as well that maybe companies, as they reckon with what
that means for productivity, as they reckon with how much
capex they're going to have to do, maybe this is
a reason why we're seeing these layoffs. As you've looked
(04:09):
at the data and talked to experts, what do they
say about the role that this massive expenditure in AI
is having on the economy.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I think it's interesting because a lot of companies don't
want to necessarily point to AI being the reason for layoffs,
but economists can see these layoffs happening. Obviously, there are
other macroeconomic factors leading to this, but artificial intelligence has
really been one of the biggest ones, and so much
so that Federal Reserve hair pal had a question about
this and even discuss the fact that these layoffs were
(04:35):
large and that they would have to keep looking at
the impact of artificial intelligence into the US economy.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
For many years, we've had this labor market where there
hasn't been a lot of churn, and that's been worrisome
to a lot of people. What does that say just
about the overall health of the labor market. I know
that we've seen the federalser have kind of focused more
intently now on the labor side of its dual mandate
against What does the job market tell us about the
health of the US economy more broadly?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
You know, when people here that you know there is
low firing and then also low hiring, they think that
that's a good thing, but in reality it's not because
then people who are out of work are finding difficulty
getting into work. Younger employees, young workers are having a
difficulty climbing the corporate ladder because they're not able to
find other opportunities. And so the FED and economists are
very worried about this. Economy where there is low turn
(05:20):
and that is because that is a sign of a
cooling economy. As you said, the Federal Reserve has been
keeping an eye on the labor market mandate, and in
recent meetings Jerome Powell actually mentioned the laugh of something
they have to keep a close eye on. And even
though economists and the Fed don't have the data to
guide them to see if that is really impacting unemployment
levels and jobless claims on a numerical if it's actually
(05:42):
moving the needle. They have to keep a close eye
on this. And it is because of the fact that
now this low, higher, low fire environment might be switching
over to a low, higher, more fire environment.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Julia, As you look at these announcements, are we seeing
much from these companies about sort of what it might
or might not pretend for the future. In other words,
are they encouraging people to look at these in isolation,
or are they telling a kind of broader story about
the way it's reshaping their outlook on who they need
to have on staff, who they need to hire.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
It's a little bit of both. They are not trying
to make it seem like these cuts will continue for
a long time. A lot of these companies. That's not
their goal. They're trying to say, oh, you know, this
is the end of the culling that we needed. This is,
you know, the end of the restructuring. But I also
think they are giving signs of where the jobs will
be in the future. They have specifically said, you know
that artificial intelligence has taken over chatbots customer service, They're
(06:36):
going to take over those entry level coding jobs. So
there are a lot of both. Elements of those messagings
are in these layoff conversations that companies are having.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Whatever reason these companies are giving for people on the
chopping block, layoffs or layoffs. So what's happening to all
those workers who've lost their jobs? That's next in the
(07:11):
midst of the government shutdown. It's impossible to know exactly
how many people have become unemployed so far this year,
but private sector estimates place that number at close to
a million. I asked Bloomberg's Julia Fanzera, is what the
job market looks like for them?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
These employees who have been laid off are having such
difficulty re entering the labor market. It can take months,
oftentimes over a year to find another job and these
workers are out of a job now, they're looking for
sometimes temporary, seasonal jobs and jobs that necessarily they wouldn't
have considered, but because they have no other options. And
I think that is also where the feed is very concerned,
(07:48):
because again, while low higher low fire might seem like
a good thing, it is these workers who are left
out of the labor market who are finding difficulty getting
back in Julia.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
How is that manifesting itself in the survey data that
we've seen.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
The recent consumer confidence survey was really showing that employees
aren't concerned and confidence. Consumer confidence in general in the
economy has you know, waned quite a bit, even though
it has necessarily trickled over to consumer spending. The confidence
that consumers have on the economy has dwindled, and these
workers increasingly are seeing the economy as harder place to
(08:22):
find a job.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
It was like a year ago we were talking a
lot about this being a really tight labor market. It
was very much a worker's job market. You kind of
ask for more money, be more choosy about the jobs
you wanted to take or where you wanted to stay,
races you could ask for. Now it sounds like we're
seeing this change underway, and I'm curious just at a
macro level what that means both for companies and for workers.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, workers are very much no longer in the driver's seed. Actually,
some recent data shows that, you know, worker pay increase
has slowed much, much, much more than anticipated. Especially young
workers are seeing some of like the slowest gains in
their pay increases, which is going to set them back
because this is already a generation that was less likely
(09:05):
to own a house, They have less investments in the
stock market, and so that's going to set them back
financially for quite a bit. But that is the difficulty.
Also is that you know, this is no longer a
worker's environment. They're really feeling this, and the wage growth
sometimes is barely barely barely keeping up with inflation.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I want to ask you lastly, when the US government
does reopen and we begin to get these data and
reports more regularly, again, what's the what's the one that
you're most eager to see as you continue to do
this reporting on the labor market.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Oh, I'm most eager to see the jobs report. I
think that's and that's really shifted in the past week.
I would say with these layoffs before the inflation report
was really the highlight. Everyone was very concerned, how are
they going to collect, you know, October prices because they
need those people in person going to brick and mortar
stores to collect those prices. But as these layoffs have
become a bigger story, there have been more headlines. Now
(09:59):
that jobs report is going to be very important and
seeing how that is going to impact the economy, that's
the one I'm most looking forward to.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gura.
To get more from The Big Take and unlimited access
to all of Bloomberg dot com, subscribe today at Bloomberg
dot com slash podcast offer. If you liked this episode,
make sure to follow and review The Big Take wherever
you listen to podcasts. It helps people find the show.
Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow
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