November 12, 2025 • 18 mins
When President Trump took office in January, he made it clear that retribution against his perceived political enemies was a key part of his second-term agenda.
He’s used a variety of tools at his disposal — and with his encouragement, the Department of Justice has indicted former FBI Director James Comey, New York State Attorney General Letitia James and former National Security Advisor John Bolton.
On today’s Big Take podcast, host Sarah Holder is joined by Bloomberg senior national political reporter Nancy Cook and Department of Justice reporter Chris Strohm to talk about how these cases are playing out and the new precedent they could set for future administrations.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
For those who have been wronged and betrayed, I am
your retribution. I am your retribution. Retribution was a key
theme of President Donald Trump's return to the White House.
Here he is in twenty twenty two speaking about the
injustice he saw in the convictions of January sixth, right,
and if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons
(00:30):
because they are being treated so unfairly. And in twenty
twenty three talking about the injustice of the cases brought
against him. But remember it's a Democrat charging his opponent.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Nobody's ever seen anything like it.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
That means that if I win and somebody wants to
run against me.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I call my attorney general. I say, listen, indict him. Well,
he hasn't done anything wrong that we know.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I don't know up on income tax evasion. You'll figure
it out.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Going into his second term, it was an open question
about how much time would be spent on policy versus
how much time would be spent on revenge.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Bloomberg's senior national political reporter, Nancy Cook has covered Trump
for a decade and interviewed him at mar A Lago
a couple days before the first twenty twenty four presidential debate.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I think there were people around him who wanted him
to really build a big policy agenda and were steering
him away from the retribution agenda. But what we've seen
in office so far is that the retribution agenda is
alive and well, and even more so than I think
Republicans and even people close to Trump thought were possible.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I'm Sarah Holder, and this is the big take from
Bloomberg News today on the show, how Trump is upending
norms and expanding presidential powers to target his perceived political enemies.
A major weapon in that fight the Department of Justice.
(02:09):
Bloomberg's Nancy Cook says that when Trump took office in January,
he made it clear that retribution wasn't just a campaign theme,
it was a key part of his second term agenda.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
The tools at his disposal are quite large at this
point because his administration is taking a very broad view
of presidential executive power. And I would say that unlike
the first term, this time they have really approached the
retribution campaign with real military style precision, a lot of
savviness about how to use the levers of the federal government.
(02:41):
We saw him very quickly go after law firms that
had done work for people he didn't like, using social
media to go after people pulling security clearances, and then
lately we've seen him go after specific people who have
been personally critical of the Trump administration.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
The Department of Justice has indicted for FBI Director James Core.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
President Trump's former national security advisor, John Bolton, has just been.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
On the Attorney General Letitia James has been indicted.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Part of what's enabled the Trump administration to pursue these
targets is the cooperation of the Department of Justice.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Pam Bondi said during her confirmation hearing to be Attorney
generalist she wasn't going to have an enemies list at
the Justice Department, but she doesn't need an enemy's list
because she has been given Trump's enemies list.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Chris Strome covers the Department of Justice for Bloomberg.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Across the board, Bondie and her top staff have been
carrying out essentially a purge at the Justice Department, where
hundreds of people, career prosecutors and staff have been fired
or resigned, and in concert with that, they've been investigating
(03:57):
and now prosecuting individuals who Trump has identified as being
his political enemies. They are carrying out broad, sweeping investigations
into what Trump and his allies have said is a
grand conspiracy against Trump, dating back to twenty sixteen, starting
(04:20):
with the Russian investigation, going into the Moler investigation, going
into the investigation to Trump's efforts to overturn the twenty
twenty election, and then the investigation into Trump retaining classified documents.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
It seems he doesn't view this as weaponizing the justice system.
He views this as using the justice system in the
same way that it was used against him. Is that fair.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah. One of the really interesting approaches that Trump and
his allies are taking is to say that the Justice
Department was weaponized against them and therefore or they're trying
to correct the record. They're trying to prosecute people who
carried out criminal actions up to and including treason against Trump.
(05:11):
And if you look at the actions that are being
taken now against Jim Comey or Letitia James or John Bolton,
a lot of it is finding any kind of charge
that they possibly can to hang onto somebody. It doesn't
matter that these charges don't have anything to do with
the grand conspiracy. All that matters is that these people
(05:34):
are under investigation and now being prosecuted, and so Trump
can claim that he's been right all along in saying
that these people are dirty and these people are corrupt,
and therefore they deserve to go to jail.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Are there any mechanisms in place that are supposed to
prevent the president from using the Department of Justice in
this way.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
One of the really interesting lessons from the Trump era
is that what we thought were rules and regulations governing
how the Justice Department operated and how criminal prosecutions were
conducted actually don't really exist. What Trump has exposed is
that we've been relying on a series of norms and
traditions where the Justice Department would willingly have a distance
(06:21):
and an independence from the administration. Multiple Attorney generals and
Justice Department officials across administrations have enforced policies and rules
that would separate the Justice Department from the White House
when it came to conducting investigations and making decisions about prosecutions.
(06:45):
Trump has obliterated that he's come in with a wrecking
ball and essentially has declared himself as being the chief
law enforcement officer of the country and the person who
can make decisions about who should be prosecuted and even
how they can be prosecuted.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Nancy Cooke says that change in norms is something you
can actually see.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
One thing that has struck me just visually about Trump
in his second term is Pam Bondy is over in
the Oval Office a lot of public events. I covered
the first Trump term, I covered two years of Biden's
White House, Like I don't remember Merrick Garland being over
in the Oval Office all the time for events. Pam
Bondy is over there, often standing behind Trump as he
makes pronouncements, standing there with other officials. I would say
(07:31):
they're upending a lot of the legal agencies, including the FBI,
the CIA, But it's like she is visually aligned with
the President in these photo ops all the time as well.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
The distance and independence the White House has traditionally kept
from the Department of Justice is a modern phenomenon that
only dates back to the aftermath of Richard Nixon's presidency
and the Watergate scandal.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Nixon tried to use the powers of the presidency in
order to invest to Gate his political enemies, and Nixon
tried to actually tell the Justice Department how to carry
out investigations. Members of Congress actually stood up to the
president and determined that the actions that were being taken
were offensive, that there had to be certain guardrails put
(08:19):
in place. And so that's when you began to see
laws that were actually passed, such as creating inspector generals
within these agencies. But during this Trump administration, those safeguards
have just been knocked down. Trump fired a bunch of
inspector generals. He has declared that he can do what
(08:42):
he wants with the Justice Department, and you're not seeing
the same pushback in Congress that you did forty years ago.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Coming up, what's next in the cases of former FBI
director James Comey and New York's Attorney General Letitia James,
And what kind of new precedent Trump's norm breaking dj
could set. It's been over half a century since Nixon's
(09:18):
Watergate scandal pushed Congress to create firmer boundaries between the
Department of Justice and the president, but now Trump has
started breaking them. Critics have said that many of the
indictments Trump's DOJ has opened so far are motivated by
the president's quest for revenge. Trump doesn't see it that way.
It's about Justice's.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Brilliant, It's not revenge.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
In late September, he was asked about the indictment of
former FBI director James Comy as he boarded Air Force one.
Comy was charged with making a false statement and obstructing
a congressional proceeding related to his twenty twenty testimony at
a Senate Judiciary hearing. He's pleaded not guilty. So it's
also about the fact that you can't let this go on.
(10:04):
They are sick, radical left people and they can't get
away with it and call me was one of the people.
He wasn't the biggest. Kmy first got on Trump's bad
side back in twenty sixteen, when Komy opened an investigation
into alleged ties between Trump's first presidential campaign and Russia.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
That was the original Sin.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Bloomberg DOJ reporter Chris Strom.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
As the investigation continued, Trump fired Komy in May of
twenty seventeen, and Komy then leaked some of his written
memos about his interactions with Trump and the public. Revelations
were very damaging to Trump and actually led the Justice
(10:49):
Department at that time to a point Special Counsel Moler
to carry on the Russia investigation, and ever since then,
Trump has vilified Komy and called for his prosecution.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So it was something he couldn't get done in his
first term and became a big priority and part of
how he shaped the Justice Department in his second term.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah, he was not getting the results he wanted during
the beginning of his second administration, and so he put
out a very public demand on social media, essentially in
order to Bondie, demanding that Comy and others like Letitia
James be prosecuted. And it was only days later that
(11:33):
the White House installed one of Trump's White House aides,
Lindsay Halligan, who Trump abruptly put in as the interim
Use Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia. And just
days after she was inserted into that position, she brought
an indictment against James Comy, and then a couple weeks later,
(11:54):
she brought an indictment against Letitia James.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
James had launched a federal civil fraud against Trump and
the Trump Organization in twenty twenty two and one in October,
she was charged with mortgage occupancy fraud and for making
false statements to a financial institution. She's also pleaded not guilty.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
The career prosecutors working in the Easter District of Virginia
had reached a decision that there was no justification to
bring these cases against Kome and James and that most
likely these cases would fail in court.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
I'm wondering how Trump, being very open about his dislike
of Komy might play into this case, because I know
Komy has asked for the charges against him to be dismissed,
arguing that he is being personally targeted.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Komy has already filed a motion to say that the
indictment against him should be dismissed because it represents an
addictive and selective prosecution, and his legal team has cited
the multitude of times that Trump has disparaged Komye or
called for his prosecution. These motions have already been made,
(13:04):
They're under consideration by the judge. And trying to succeed
with emotion claiming vindictive and selective prosecutions very difficult. A
lot of defendants do it but don't have success. Komy
might be the poster child for a case that can
actually succeed, and if Comy's motion succeeds, it most likely
(13:25):
will also be replicated by Letitia James in her motion
and others who are still to come.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Comy and James, for their part, are both determined to
fight their charges in court. Their trials are set for January,
and over the past year, several DOJ attorneys have resigned
in protest over directives they were given in other investigations.
But Chris says Trump's DOJ is facing resistance that's much
more muted than it was in the Nixon era.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Congress has largely been absent. I mean Democrats don't have
any power. They don't control either the House or the Senate,
and so in order to have oversight hearings or to
demand information from the administration or issue subpoenas that can
only come from the Republican majority, and they're not doing it.
You do have individuals inside agencies such as the Justice
(14:14):
Department that are questioning what the White House and what
Trump are doing. There have been some examples where even
Attorney General Bondie and Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche have
resisted certain steps that Trump and his allies want the
Justice Department to take. There's still some open questions about
(14:38):
what the Justice Department is going to do with some
of these cases that they haven't been fully on board
with what Trump has been demanding that they do.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
I'm curious about long term precedent here. It's something that
comes up a lot when we talk about the way
that Trump is operating as president. Is it possible and
is it a concern that future US leaders, Republican or
Democrat could turn around and do the same thing to
their political opponents or use the DOJ to similar ends.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yes, I mean that's one of the concerns that has
been raised is that as Trump breaks down the walls
that have existed between the Justice Department and the White House,
he's setting a new precedent that any administration going forward
can use, and there's really nothing to stop that from happening,
short of either a public outcry that becomes so overwhelming
(15:35):
or congressional resistance. I think for Trump and his allies,
it's not even a matter of getting a conviction. It's
the process of indicting these individuals and forcing them to
have to get legal representation and go through court processes.
The process is the punishment, not just.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
The process as the punishment, but also the message that
it sends to other people.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Bloomberg's senior national political reporter Nancy Cook.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Again, if you speak out, there is a hugorist that
will go after you. And I think that you're seeing
in Washington, DC a lot of self censorship, you know,
with like maybe lawyers not speaking out as much, or
former Trump officials who were very vocal and on TV
a lot going quieter. And so I do think that
it's it's the message that you know, you just keep
(16:25):
it to yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
In late September, Trump was asked who was next on
his list after the Coomy indictment, and he said he
isn't done, not a list, but I think there'll be others.
The next wave of indictments could come as soon as January,
when a federal grand jury convenes in Florida. The Trump's
allies expect will investigate what they believe has been a
(16:47):
long running conspiracy by former government officials to undermine Trump.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Trump has even said that the Justice Department needs to
take a look at Mayork Garland, Chris Ray, Lisa Monico,
Jack Smith. These were all the key officials in charge
of investigations that were against Trump. So that's the next
phase of the retribution campaign that I'm really paying attention
(17:14):
to right now in which individuals will get swept up
into that.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
And also you have to keep in mind we're only
in year one of his four years second term, so
it's very unclear to me what does the Justice Department
look like at the end of.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
This This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm
Sarah Holder. To get more from The Big Take and
unlimited access to all of Bloomberg dot com, subscribe today
at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast offer. If you liked
this episode, make sure to follow and review The Big
(17:49):
Take wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps people find
the show. Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
For those who have been wronged and betrayed, I am
your retribution. I am your retribution. Retribution was a key
theme of President Donald Trump's return to the White House.
Here he is in twenty twenty two speaking about the
injustice he saw in the convictions of January sixth, right,
and if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons
(00:30):
because they are being treated so unfairly. And in twenty
twenty three talking about the injustice of the cases brought
against him. But remember it's a Democrat charging his opponent.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Nobody's ever seen anything like it.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
That means that if I win and somebody wants to
run against me.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I call my attorney general. I say, listen, indict him. Well,
he hasn't done anything wrong that we know.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I don't know up on income tax evasion. You'll figure
it out.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Going into his second term, it was an open question
about how much time would be spent on policy versus
how much time would be spent on revenge.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Bloomberg's senior national political reporter, Nancy Cook has covered Trump
for a decade and interviewed him at mar A Lago
a couple days before the first twenty twenty four presidential debate.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I think there were people around him who wanted him
to really build a big policy agenda and were steering
him away from the retribution agenda. But what we've seen
in office so far is that the retribution agenda is
alive and well, and even more so than I think
Republicans and even people close to Trump thought were possible.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I'm Sarah Holder, and this is the big take from
Bloomberg News today on the show, how Trump is upending
norms and expanding presidential powers to target his perceived political enemies.
A major weapon in that fight the Department of Justice.
(02:09):
Bloomberg's Nancy Cook says that when Trump took office in January,
he made it clear that retribution wasn't just a campaign theme,
it was a key part of his second term agenda.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
The tools at his disposal are quite large at this
point because his administration is taking a very broad view
of presidential executive power. And I would say that unlike
the first term, this time they have really approached the
retribution campaign with real military style precision, a lot of
savviness about how to use the levers of the federal government.
(02:41):
We saw him very quickly go after law firms that
had done work for people he didn't like, using social
media to go after people pulling security clearances, and then
lately we've seen him go after specific people who have
been personally critical of the Trump administration.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
The Department of Justice has indicted for FBI Director James Core.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
President Trump's former national security advisor, John Bolton, has just been.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
On the Attorney General Letitia James has been indicted.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Part of what's enabled the Trump administration to pursue these
targets is the cooperation of the Department of Justice.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Pam Bondi said during her confirmation hearing to be Attorney
generalist she wasn't going to have an enemies list at
the Justice Department, but she doesn't need an enemy's list
because she has been given Trump's enemies list.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Chris Strome covers the Department of Justice for Bloomberg.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Across the board, Bondie and her top staff have been
carrying out essentially a purge at the Justice Department, where
hundreds of people, career prosecutors and staff have been fired
or resigned, and in concert with that, they've been investigating
(03:57):
and now prosecuting individuals who Trump has identified as being
his political enemies. They are carrying out broad, sweeping investigations
into what Trump and his allies have said is a
grand conspiracy against Trump, dating back to twenty sixteen, starting
(04:20):
with the Russian investigation, going into the Moler investigation, going
into the investigation to Trump's efforts to overturn the twenty
twenty election, and then the investigation into Trump retaining classified documents.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
It seems he doesn't view this as weaponizing the justice system.
He views this as using the justice system in the
same way that it was used against him. Is that fair.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah. One of the really interesting approaches that Trump and
his allies are taking is to say that the Justice
Department was weaponized against them and therefore or they're trying
to correct the record. They're trying to prosecute people who
carried out criminal actions up to and including treason against Trump.
(05:11):
And if you look at the actions that are being
taken now against Jim Comey or Letitia James or John Bolton,
a lot of it is finding any kind of charge
that they possibly can to hang onto somebody. It doesn't
matter that these charges don't have anything to do with
the grand conspiracy. All that matters is that these people
(05:34):
are under investigation and now being prosecuted, and so Trump
can claim that he's been right all along in saying
that these people are dirty and these people are corrupt,
and therefore they deserve to go to jail.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Are there any mechanisms in place that are supposed to
prevent the president from using the Department of Justice in
this way.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
One of the really interesting lessons from the Trump era
is that what we thought were rules and regulations governing
how the Justice Department operated and how criminal prosecutions were
conducted actually don't really exist. What Trump has exposed is
that we've been relying on a series of norms and
traditions where the Justice Department would willingly have a distance
(06:21):
and an independence from the administration. Multiple Attorney generals and
Justice Department officials across administrations have enforced policies and rules
that would separate the Justice Department from the White House
when it came to conducting investigations and making decisions about prosecutions.
(06:45):
Trump has obliterated that he's come in with a wrecking
ball and essentially has declared himself as being the chief
law enforcement officer of the country and the person who
can make decisions about who should be prosecuted and even
how they can be prosecuted.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Nancy Cooke says that change in norms is something you
can actually see.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
One thing that has struck me just visually about Trump
in his second term is Pam Bondy is over in
the Oval Office a lot of public events. I covered
the first Trump term, I covered two years of Biden's
White House, Like I don't remember Merrick Garland being over
in the Oval Office all the time for events. Pam
Bondy is over there, often standing behind Trump as he
makes pronouncements, standing there with other officials. I would say
(07:31):
they're upending a lot of the legal agencies, including the FBI,
the CIA, But it's like she is visually aligned with
the President in these photo ops all the time as well.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
The distance and independence the White House has traditionally kept
from the Department of Justice is a modern phenomenon that
only dates back to the aftermath of Richard Nixon's presidency
and the Watergate scandal.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Nixon tried to use the powers of the presidency in
order to invest to Gate his political enemies, and Nixon
tried to actually tell the Justice Department how to carry
out investigations. Members of Congress actually stood up to the
president and determined that the actions that were being taken
were offensive, that there had to be certain guardrails put
(08:19):
in place. And so that's when you began to see
laws that were actually passed, such as creating inspector generals
within these agencies. But during this Trump administration, those safeguards
have just been knocked down. Trump fired a bunch of
inspector generals. He has declared that he can do what
(08:42):
he wants with the Justice Department, and you're not seeing
the same pushback in Congress that you did forty years ago.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Coming up, what's next in the cases of former FBI
director James Comey and New York's Attorney General Letitia James,
And what kind of new precedent Trump's norm breaking dj
could set. It's been over half a century since Nixon's
(09:18):
Watergate scandal pushed Congress to create firmer boundaries between the
Department of Justice and the president, but now Trump has
started breaking them. Critics have said that many of the
indictments Trump's DOJ has opened so far are motivated by
the president's quest for revenge. Trump doesn't see it that way.
It's about Justice's.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Brilliant, It's not revenge.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
In late September, he was asked about the indictment of
former FBI director James Comy as he boarded Air Force one.
Comy was charged with making a false statement and obstructing
a congressional proceeding related to his twenty twenty testimony at
a Senate Judiciary hearing. He's pleaded not guilty. So it's
also about the fact that you can't let this go on.
(10:04):
They are sick, radical left people and they can't get
away with it and call me was one of the people.
He wasn't the biggest. Kmy first got on Trump's bad
side back in twenty sixteen, when Komy opened an investigation
into alleged ties between Trump's first presidential campaign and Russia.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
That was the original Sin.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Bloomberg DOJ reporter Chris Strom.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
As the investigation continued, Trump fired Komy in May of
twenty seventeen, and Komy then leaked some of his written
memos about his interactions with Trump and the public. Revelations
were very damaging to Trump and actually led the Justice
(10:49):
Department at that time to a point Special Counsel Moler
to carry on the Russia investigation, and ever since then,
Trump has vilified Komy and called for his prosecution.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So it was something he couldn't get done in his
first term and became a big priority and part of
how he shaped the Justice Department in his second term.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah, he was not getting the results he wanted during
the beginning of his second administration, and so he put
out a very public demand on social media, essentially in
order to Bondie, demanding that Comy and others like Letitia
James be prosecuted. And it was only days later that
(11:33):
the White House installed one of Trump's White House aides,
Lindsay Halligan, who Trump abruptly put in as the interim
Use Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia. And just
days after she was inserted into that position, she brought
an indictment against James Comy, and then a couple weeks later,
(11:54):
she brought an indictment against Letitia James.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
James had launched a federal civil fraud against Trump and
the Trump Organization in twenty twenty two and one in October,
she was charged with mortgage occupancy fraud and for making
false statements to a financial institution. She's also pleaded not guilty.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
The career prosecutors working in the Easter District of Virginia
had reached a decision that there was no justification to
bring these cases against Kome and James and that most
likely these cases would fail in court.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
I'm wondering how Trump, being very open about his dislike
of Komy might play into this case, because I know
Komy has asked for the charges against him to be dismissed,
arguing that he is being personally targeted.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Komy has already filed a motion to say that the
indictment against him should be dismissed because it represents an
addictive and selective prosecution, and his legal team has cited
the multitude of times that Trump has disparaged Komye or
called for his prosecution. These motions have already been made,
(13:04):
They're under consideration by the judge. And trying to succeed
with emotion claiming vindictive and selective prosecutions very difficult. A
lot of defendants do it but don't have success. Komy
might be the poster child for a case that can
actually succeed, and if Comy's motion succeeds, it most likely
(13:25):
will also be replicated by Letitia James in her motion
and others who are still to come.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Comy and James, for their part, are both determined to
fight their charges in court. Their trials are set for January,
and over the past year, several DOJ attorneys have resigned
in protest over directives they were given in other investigations.
But Chris says Trump's DOJ is facing resistance that's much
more muted than it was in the Nixon era.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Congress has largely been absent. I mean Democrats don't have
any power. They don't control either the House or the Senate,
and so in order to have oversight hearings or to
demand information from the administration or issue subpoenas that can
only come from the Republican majority, and they're not doing it.
You do have individuals inside agencies such as the Justice
(14:14):
Department that are questioning what the White House and what
Trump are doing. There have been some examples where even
Attorney General Bondie and Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche have
resisted certain steps that Trump and his allies want the
Justice Department to take. There's still some open questions about
(14:38):
what the Justice Department is going to do with some
of these cases that they haven't been fully on board
with what Trump has been demanding that they do.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
I'm curious about long term precedent here. It's something that
comes up a lot when we talk about the way
that Trump is operating as president. Is it possible and
is it a concern that future US leaders, Republican or
Democrat could turn around and do the same thing to
their political opponents or use the DOJ to similar ends.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yes, I mean that's one of the concerns that has
been raised is that as Trump breaks down the walls
that have existed between the Justice Department and the White House,
he's setting a new precedent that any administration going forward
can use, and there's really nothing to stop that from happening,
short of either a public outcry that becomes so overwhelming
(15:35):
or congressional resistance. I think for Trump and his allies,
it's not even a matter of getting a conviction. It's
the process of indicting these individuals and forcing them to
have to get legal representation and go through court processes.
The process is the punishment, not just.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
The process as the punishment, but also the message that
it sends to other people.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Bloomberg's senior national political reporter Nancy Cook.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Again, if you speak out, there is a hugorist that
will go after you. And I think that you're seeing
in Washington, DC a lot of self censorship, you know,
with like maybe lawyers not speaking out as much, or
former Trump officials who were very vocal and on TV
a lot going quieter. And so I do think that
it's it's the message that you know, you just keep
(16:25):
it to yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
In late September, Trump was asked who was next on
his list after the Coomy indictment, and he said he
isn't done, not a list, but I think there'll be others.
The next wave of indictments could come as soon as January,
when a federal grand jury convenes in Florida. The Trump's
allies expect will investigate what they believe has been a
(16:47):
long running conspiracy by former government officials to undermine Trump.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Trump has even said that the Justice Department needs to
take a look at Mayork Garland, Chris Ray, Lisa Monico,
Jack Smith. These were all the key officials in charge
of investigations that were against Trump. So that's the next
phase of the retribution campaign that I'm really paying attention
(17:14):
to right now in which individuals will get swept up
into that.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
And also you have to keep in mind we're only
in year one of his four years second term, so
it's very unclear to me what does the Justice Department
look like at the end of.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
This This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm
Sarah Holder. To get more from The Big Take and
unlimited access to all of Bloomberg dot com, subscribe today
at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast offer. If you liked
this episode, make sure to follow and review The Big
(17:49):
Take wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps people find
the show. Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.
Hosts And Creators
Sarah Holder
Saleha Mohsin
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