Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Last September, Sarah Swata, a thirty nine year old doctor
from India, was scrolling on his phone when a Facebook
ad caught his attention.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
He saw an ad that was from Geojith Financial Services,
or at least it claimed to be from Jeojith, which
is a prominent brokerage in India. It's well reputed and
they were offering him some special books and the returns
were really high.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Alex Gabriel Simon is a Bloomberg Stocks reporter based in Mumbai.
He spoke to Sarah Swatam who asked that we just
use his first name because his case is under police investigation.
On that September day, Sarah Swata clicked on the ad
and was invited to join an exclusive WhatsApp group.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
So, once he joined the WhatsApp group, there were seemingly
employees of Giojeth giving him all sorts of advice and
then he was asked generally what any regular brokerage would
ask you, and they had a proper application process and
he signed up with the app and the apps had
the name of Jyojith. It had SEBI registration number. SEBBI
(01:14):
is the capital market regulator in India. There was no
sense of this being fake anywhere at all.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
The so called advisors told Saraswata he could make easy
money just by pressing a few buttons on their trading
app every day, that they had a surefire buy and
flip strategy. So Sarah Swata started sending small amounts of money,
and soon the money he put in started multiplying on
the app. Three hundred and seventy thousand US dollars became
(01:42):
half a million, then a million, then two million dollars,
all in the span of a few months.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
He felt like he hit a gold mine, is exactly
what he told me, and the money was growing to
an extent where you wouldn't expect in a regular stock
market scenario.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
By December, he thought it was about time to cash
in on his earnings, but when he asked to withdraw
part of the money, things took a different turn.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
They told him that since you have gained of more
than one hundred percent on your investments, that he'll need
an extra commission to withdraw that money. So he was
asked to invest much more. He ended up pawning off
his wife's gold jewelry to cover this amount, and by
then he had already invested much of what he had
(02:32):
had multiple personal loans as well as gold loans.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
The firm kept coming back with excuses to ask for
even more money. That's when Sarah Swata realized something wasn't right.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
So he took an actual flight to the real brokerage,
that is Joji, to their headquarters. He went there and
talked to the employees about his investments and they immediately
found out that he was being scammed. They looked at
the records and there was no account under his name.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
It was all a scam. The app was fake and
the total amount he invested seven hundred thousand dollars, his
entire life savings and more, it was all gone. And
there are many retail investors likes Ariswata who hope to
make a fortune after watching India's booming stock market produce
some genuine millionaires, but instead they're tricked out of millions
(03:26):
in life savings by scammers. Last year, some one hundred
and fifty thousand people reported being victims of stock frauds,
and all time high in India. This is a concern
not only for retail investors in India, but for the
Indian economy.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
More broadly, so when foreign investors see the retail friends,
he has reached levels that people are willing to now
put money into these scams. They are thinking this frenzy
has gone too far. Maybe this is not a market
that we should be in, and they've been selling in billions.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Welcome to The Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm Wanha.
Every week we take you inside some of the world's
biggest and most powerful economies and the markets, tycoons and
businesses that drive this ever shifting region. Today on the show,
the Dark Side of India's retail investing frenzy. What's driving
(04:24):
the surge and financial cyber scamps, and what does it
mean for the future of India's boomings stock market. Up
until last September, India stock market was on a tear.
The benchmark nifty to fifty index posted gains for nine
(04:44):
years in a row. Its growth overtook major markets across
the world. It even outperformed the S and P five
hundred for most of last year, and.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
The rally has really picked up pace in the last
five years. After COVID there was the monetary policy stimulus.
Growth was really going about trend and all of this
had led to a lot of gains in the market,
especially in small and midcaps, where retailers were really pouring
their money into.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Shares of companies that went public last year surged by
an average of more than thirty percent in the first
month after their IPO. That's more than almost twenty four
percent globally, and the country's unprecedented market rally drove tens
of millions of Indians to stocks to grow their wealth.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
If you go into social media, there are so many
stories of people who became millionaires from investing in the market.
Retail investors have started to believe that this is easy
and that the Indian market would keep rising every year
like it did in the last nine years.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Today there are more than one hundred and thirty million
unique trading accounts, that's almost triple the number five years ago.
Retail Investors directly and through mutual funds currently own about
eighteen percent of the inn market, a record high, and
Alex says there were several factors that all came together
to drive this retail boom.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
There was a flood of cheap Chinese phones that have
come into the market, and along with that, billionaire Mocation
Bani launched Giovich's his telecom company, and that launch was
with free voice calls as well as dirt sheep data,
and that really gave access to Internet to a lot
of people in India, going deep into the hinterlands.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
On top of this, discount, brokerages popped up to offer
zero fees, similar to robin Hood or Interactive brokers in
the US. That made it easy and affordable for a
lot of Indians to just open an account and start trading.
And it's not just Indians who've been jumping into the
capital markets. As one of the fastest growing economies in
(06:52):
the world, India has drawn the attention of top business leaders,
from Apple's Tim Cook and Tesla's Elon Musk to veteran
emerging markets money manager Mark Mobius. Last year, Mobias suggested
global funds should allocate at least fifty percent to Indian stocks.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
The pick for me is India.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
India is the place. Even though India's come back a
lot and it has even at some point outperformed the
US market, India's still got a long way to go.
It's a message India's Prime Minister Noarendra Modi has been
peggybacking on Mobius does a park explore. Mody touted the
(07:31):
fund manager's call in a speech last October and suggested
that other global funds should invest heavily in Indian stocks
to capitalize on the country's market strength. But despite this
excitement and optimism for India's stock market, a darker side
to the retail investor frenzy has emerged. All this investment
activity by ordinary Indians has caught the eye of cyber
(07:55):
criminals and fronsters over the past several years. Now India
is being targeted by modern trading scammers at alarmingly high rates.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Cybersecurity firm Cloudseek came out with a report that said
India is one among the top five countries which are
being targeted by cyber criminals in very sophisticated scams. A
lot of countries went through a gradual change where they
started with computers and then moved to laptops and mobile phones,
but in India it's all quick and people are not
(08:28):
really digitally literate, and all of that has made India
very vulnerable when it comes to cybercrime.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Government data shows that last year there were more than
four hundred stock market linked scams reported every day, amounting
to more than one billion dollars lost. So far, less
than ten percent of that money has been recovered. Ali
says that's likely only the tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
So the people getting scammed are unlike what you would suspect.
It's not just maybe the old people or uneducated people
when I'm talking to brokerages whose apps have been coned
or other victims. It's coming from all walks of life.
There are people who are educated, people who are uneducated,
coming from Tier one cities, tier two cities, as well
(09:14):
as deep into the villages in India where earlier there
was barely access to internet. But now they're being scammed
and lured into stock market link scams.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
And recently the market's taken a turn, raising concerns that
these stock linked scams may have played a part in
denting consumer confidence. Well, stocks in India have wrapped out
there over a trillion dollars from their market bellue and
global fund managers are also not in any rush after
(09:43):
the break the Risks investment scams posed to India stock market.
And what does the recent shares plument mean for Mody's
ambition to sell India stocks to foreign investors. After an
(10:08):
unprecedented nine year rally, India's benchmark stock index has experienced
a recent downturn. It saw up to a sixteen percent
decline from September last year to early March. Some popular
stocks have fallen as much as fifty percent from their peak.
Bloomberg reporter Alex Gabriel Simon says that was partly driven
by worries about slowing economic growth and as terarif risks
(10:32):
royal global markets, but he also says the surge in
financial cyber scams have played a role in the recent decline.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
What these scams do is make people who have been
scammed wary of investing in general, even when they are
now putting money into legitimate trading apps, and that sentiment,
if it prolongs, might lead to a break in the
broadening investor base we have seen in India.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Right of these scams has put pressure on Runder Modi's
government to do more to protect investors.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
You could clearly see that they're trying to do something
to stop this, and you can see that they've been
increasing outreach to fix this issue in certain parts of
the country. When you call someone, the caller tune on
the other side is a warning that there has been
cyber scams going on. Do not share OTPs with anyone,
do not make these instant payments to people who are
(11:29):
not registered entities.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
And at the same time, the Indian government has been
trying to tackle another growing issue, the rise of financial
influencers on social media, or so called influencers. And while
influencers aren't necessarily fraudulent, they often lack professional training and
some don't disclose sponsorships or financial ties, and that's a
(11:51):
concern India's regulators are trying to address.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So SABEE has come out with numerous rules to contain
the rise of influen conswers in India. They have made
it illegal for them to have affiliate links to entities
managed by the regulator. They've also banned people from selling
stock tips in particular, and SABIE has also, according to
(12:15):
our reporting, stepped up their surveillance of social media platforms.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Alex says the government's measures to date have had some impact.
The number of fraud complaints are slowing, but there's far
more to be done.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
So consumer confidence is everything for an economy, and people
losing money is never good, even when you're looking at
demand for products or just confidence to invest. India is
at a stage where it's trying to widen or broaden
its investor base and that has now started to increase
and it is coming at a time. These camps are
(12:51):
coming at a time when India is going through that
journey of transformation, of financialization of savings, and this can
be a road break to that if not contained on time,
If people are now worried to invest in the market,
then the strength of the domestic investors could come into question,
and that is a big risk for the Indian equity market.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
And alex What about foreign investors? Would they come back?
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Foreign investors are always affected by the news flows coming
from a country. The sentiment is a factor beyond valuations
or earnings. So when foreign investors see the retail frends,
he has reached levels that people are willing to now
put money into these scams. They are thinking this frenzy
has gone too far. Maybe this is not a market
(13:36):
that we should be in, and they've been selling in billions.
Modi's large plan is to build India into Vixit Barret
which means developed India, and that is his vision for
twenty forty seven when India attains one hundred years of independence.
But that requires more digital literacy, that requires people to
(13:56):
build wealth, that requires people to move into more sophisticated
investment plants, and these scams proliferating does not sit well
with these plans.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
As for Sarah Swantam, Alex says after reporting the case
to the police, he still has no idea who was
behind the scam, and he's still trying to figure out
if he can get his money back.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
He's really traumatized about this whole incident and was even
finding it hard to talk about it. He told me,
this is an incident the memory of which he's trying
to wipe off from his brain.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
This is the Big take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm wanh.
This episode was produced by Naomi and Young Young. It
was edited by Grace Jennings ed Quist and Catherine nine.
It was fact checked by Young and Naomi and mixed
and sound designed by Taka Yasuzawa. Our senior producer is
Naomi Shaven. Our senior editor is Elizabeth Ponso. Our deputy
(14:55):
executive producer is Julia Weaver. Our executive producer is Nicole Beemster.
Sage Bauman is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. If you liked
this episode, please make sure to subscribe and review The
Big Take Asia Wherever you listen to podcasts. It really
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next time.