March 14, 2025 • 38 mins
Join hosts Michael Barr, Damian Sassower and guest host Vanessa Perdomo for a look at some of the latest headlines and stories in the business of sports.
Manchester United is planning to build a new 100,000-seat stadium in an attempt to catch up with the modern facilities built by some of Europe's biggest clubs. The big question will be how to pay for it - it's expected to cost over $2 billion. Bloomberg News UK business reporter David Hellier joins to talk through his reporting on it.
Bloomberg Intelligence technology and media analyst Geetha Ranganathan also joins to break down her research on how Amazon is closing the connected-TV advertising gap with the likes of Disney with the help of live sports.
Then, Vince Tizzio, president and CEO of Axis Capital shares his insight into the multi-billion dollar insurance business that exists within the sports ecosystem.
Plus, Bloomberg News Dallas Bureau chief Julie Fine sits down with Kansas City Chiefs co-owner and FC Dallas President Dan Hunt to discuss his big plans ahead of the FIFA World Cup hitting the US.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is the Business
of Sports.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
The business of sports can be intimidating or hard for
a starting to break into.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
We really appreciate when our owners are actually there, you know,
with us through the journey.
Speaker 4 (00:18):
Teams ours especially have been very intentional to diversify at
all levels.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Of the company.
Speaker 5 (00:23):
I think we're in the bolden years for the NFL
and college football.
Speaker 6 (00:26):
Our demographic reach has continued to explaide.
Speaker 7 (00:29):
This is going to be really unlocking the streaming platform
for sports fans.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Sports valuations arising, we'll see when they peak. You don't
have to be the best in your sports to make
a whole ton of money.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Hello, this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports, where we
explore the big money issues in the world of sports.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
I'm Michael Barr, I'm Damian Sasaur, and I'm an Esperdemo.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Scarlett fu is on assignment. Coming up on the show,
we talk soccer and Manchester United's plans to build a big,
brand new facility.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
We will also hear from Dan Hunt. Of course, he's
co owner of the Kansas City Chiefs, but he's got
his eyest on soccer as president of FC Dallas. He's
got big plans for the FIFA World Cup when it
comes to the United States.
Speaker 7 (01:17):
We're in a really.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
Unique spot in Dallas because Houston has six matches, Dallas
has nine, Kansas City has six. So somebody can make
a regional play to see a lot of World Cup
soccer by staying in North Texas.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
All that and more is straight ahead on the Bloomberg
Business of Sports. But first we check in on the
sports media landscape with some streamers looking to grow in
live sports.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Right now, Amazon's making up ground on Disney in ad
dollars via cord cutters, and live sports is a big
part of that.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Here to take us through the latest research on this
from Bloomberg Intelligence is Bloomberg Intelligence technology and media analyst
Githa raganoffin Geetha, We've got a fight between Amazon and Disney.
What is this spat all about?
Speaker 8 (02:03):
So this is really so, you know, we had the
streaming wars. The streaming wars are over. We kind of
know who won more or for the most part that
was Netflix. Now really the next phase, I would say
of this whole kind of streaming land grab is become
the ad supported streaming wars. Right. So now everybody, all
(02:25):
of these major platforms, whether it's a Disney, whether it's
an Amazon, even in Netflix, has now advertising on their
streaming platform, and everybody is trying to juice up their
advertising business as well as their advertising based subscribers. And
this really is just you know, this makes sense because
(02:45):
eyeballs are moving from linear platforms to streaming, and so
obviously it makes sense that advertising dollars should also follow.
And you know, all of these platforms, whether it's a Disney,
whether it's an Amazon, whether it's a Netflix, they want
to make sure that they have skin in the game,
and they want to make sure that they're capturing as
much as they can off that connected TV ad pie.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
You know, tell us how obviously sports must play a
huge role in that. Now all these streamers want to
get live sports onto their networks. And I mean that's
really the only time that I can think of when
I'm sitting down watching during a game, that's pretty much
what it is. You know, you've got to just watch it.
So tell us about how sports is really pushing that
(03:25):
next ad space.
Speaker 8 (03:27):
Oh absolutely, So sports is really the last kind of
pastion for linear TV, which is why linear TV has
been really fighting hard to hold on to sports rights
as much as they can as long as they can.
But you know, it is kind of the bundle has,
you know, kind of finally cracked, and we are seeing
more and more sports actually leak out of the ecosystem,
(03:51):
and in many ways, I think Amazon has really kind
of pushed the envelope here, right, So we've seen Amazon
make a big play for you know, the Thursday Night package,
and this year I think is really transformative in many
ways because they have invested close to almost two billion dollars.
They're going to be paying about one point eight billion
dollars per year for an NBA package which allows them
(04:14):
to stream sixty six regular season games. So that's again
a huge bet. And again it goes to your point
when I said this is all about you know, this
has become the new battleground for all of these ads
supported tiers, and everybody wants to make sure that they
have the best content, and the best content is sports
because that is where you have a captive audience, and
(04:35):
so advertisers are willing to pay those big bucks in
order to reach those audiences.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
You know, Githa, you just have to remind our audience.
Where do we find games for the NFL this season.
I mean I'm looking right now right in Amazon. I
know it has NFL Thursday Night, It's got the Black Friday,
It's got some Wildcard games. Right, You've got, like you mentioned,
linear TV. I can't believe we call it linear TV now,
but we're calling it linear TV. I mean, they're going
to get your Sunday I know, kind of one o'clock,
four o'clock. I mean, I think Netflix has Christmas, Alphabet
(05:04):
has Sunday Ticket. I mean, I mean, I just I'm
trying to keep track of it all. You know, like
talk to me about you know, which you know and
which medium I mean, is going to really benefit the
most from sports broadcasting in the coming season.
Speaker 8 (05:17):
That's a great question, you know, content discovery, and you're
really talking about the biggest pain point. You have all
of this great content, but sometimes just kind of finding
it and knowing where to go it tends to be
so frustrating for all of these viewers. You know, I
think we are going to see some improvements through the year.
So the big, big, big thing that everybody is kind
(05:39):
of waiting for in the media world actually has to
do with a big sports announcement that's coming out from
Disney a little bit later this year, which is, for
the very first time in their history, they have ESPN,
which has always been kind of synonymous with the PayTV bundle,
is actually going to go a la carte, so they
call it ESPN Flagship, and this is basically all of
(06:00):
the marquee content. ESPN content, which traditionally you can only
get through a TV subscription, is now going to be
available over the top. And that's going to happen sometime
in August, and I think, what ESPN. You know, they
haven't necessarily made any announcements just yet. We do know
that the product is probably going to going to prize
anywhere from about twenty five to thirty dollars a month.
What they have said is, you know, obviously all of
(06:22):
the content is going to be there, They're going to
have they're going to integrate sports betting, They're going to
make it as customizable as possible, you know, kind of
really really prioritizing the user experience. I think that's that's
what they're really going for. But I think eventually once
they have a critical mass of subscribers on the platform.
(06:44):
They are going to finally, you know, integrate and kind
of bring in all of the other different sources. That
that's the way I'm thinking about it. It's you know,
we still have to see how exactly it plays out,
but they're going to, i think, make it easier for
people to find all of the sports content that they
want watch in one single place.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I want to ask this question and just giving a
view on society in general. And I'm old enough to
remember free TV. You just flip the channel, you turn
it on two which was CBS four, NBC seven, ABC,
and you saw what you wanted for free. And I
remember one day when I was still living with my
(07:24):
mom and dad and I wanted to get cable and
my father lost his mind. He was like, why in
the world would you want to pay for TV? Well, then,
you know, three satellites later, he you know, clicked into it.
My point is, how did we change as a society
from hey, this is free TV to now forget cable.
(07:47):
We've gone all the way to streaming this and streaming that.
Whatever gest your view on society. What changed us?
Speaker 8 (07:54):
Ondon is expensive, you know, so if you just kind
of look at Disney's content, right, they are one of
the biggest spenders in the media ecosystem, even more than Netflix.
So they're spending roughly twenty five billion dollars on content
every year, of which eleven billion dollars is just on
sports rights. So sports is a huge part of the equation.
(08:16):
And yes, Disney is paying out for that content. They are,
you know, they're they're paying and they have to get paid.
And that's really the whole origin of the PATV bundle
and people kind of shelling out one hundred dollars per
month and really the whole creation of the media food chain,
if you will, which by you know, right now is
kind of in shambles. But you know, content is still expensive.
(08:38):
Sports rights continue to be expensive. I mean, just that
last NBA deal, the one that that the NBA concluded
last year, saw a seventy percent not a seventy percent, sorry,
it was a two hundred and seventy percent increase in
the you know, the total rights package. So really exploding
(08:58):
in terms of you know, how we are seeing some
of these fee hikes play out. TKO is the other
big one which is right now actually negotiating for both
the UFC as well as some of the WWE rights.
They're looking for one hundred percent increase. So all of
these sports leagues they know that their content is valuable,
they know that people are you know, paying to watch,
(09:18):
and so you know, they're charging heavy fees and that
gets ultimately passed on to the consumer.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Githa, You brought up a lot there for Disney obviously
spending all this money and ESPN still really is that
name in sports that everybody knows, you know, is the
number one? But so is really the new NBA deal
and Thursday Night Football? Really how Amazon was able to
close this gap with Disney? Like, I feel like Disney
(09:44):
has HULO and they have Disney plus ESPN plus they
have all those things, so I feel like they should
be really in a league of their own. How is
Amazon really able to close that gap with them?
Speaker 8 (09:53):
Okay, so what Amazon did was kind of a little
bit sneaky, I would say, but I think it served
its purpose. So the way that you know, normally some
of these streaming platforms introduce their ADS supported tiers is
you know, they do the Netflix route, right, So if
a standard subscription costs fifteen dollars, you basically introduce an
ad supported subscription at about half the price of six
(10:13):
dollars or seven dollars a month. What Amazon basically did
is they said, hey, whatever you're watching right now, we're
just going to stuff ads there. If you don't want
to watch the ads, you know, you pay us extra.
So they took the exact opposite approach by just making
ads the default option for everybody and forcing them to
(10:34):
opt out of it. So that gave them, you know,
an instant subscriber base of almost I want to say,
almost one hundred and fifteen million. They started out actually
by saying that they had about one hundred and fifteen million, right,
we think that's obviously grown over the past year or so,
and that just allowed them to not only serve ads,
but you know, go to their advertisers and say, see,
(10:55):
we already have like one hundred and twenty million subscribers.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Is there any do you have any data that's come in?
Where there are you know, I guess fifty year old
plus guys like me who all of a sudden arrive
in streaming and we're actually shopping on TV during the games.
I mean so, I mean, now you talk about sports gambling,
Michael Barr. You see where I'm going here, and and
maybe we're just now scratching the surface of the potential, right,
I mean, do you have any numbers there that kind
(11:19):
of talk about, you know, people's willingness to sit through
commercials and actually shop online during games.
Speaker 8 (11:24):
I mean, this is such an excellent point that you
bring up, Damien, because this is this is really what
Amazon's play is, right. The connected TV is just the
gateway into really you know, merging entertainment and e commerce.
They want to have shoppable TV, right, They want their
viewers to make purchases right from their screens, and so
that that's you know, that's exactly what they want. And Amazon,
(11:46):
I mean, in terms of numbers, Amazon the way that
they've kind of conquered advertising. You know, just about five
to ten years ago, advertising was was zero dollars and
today for Amazon it's a sixty billion dollars bissiness. In
the next five years, this is probably going to go
to about one hundred billion, and a lot of that
is of course, their uh, you know, their e commerce business, right,
(12:08):
the search advertising or what we call retail media advertising,
and ultimately they want to do anything and everything they
can to choose those not only you know, the number
of people that they have shopping, but of course also
the you know, the advertising dollars everything, so everything goes
hand in hand here with Amazon. But you're absolutely right.
I mean, it is, it is that whole integrated experience
(12:28):
and they want people to spend more, you know, on
their platform, and they're doing it through this through the
ads to what they call shopical.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
TV our Thanks to Bloomberg Intelligence, Technology and media analyst
Githa Raganathin up next, we turned a soccer and man
use plans to build a brand new venue for my
colleagues Damian Sasaur and Vanessa Perdomo. I'm Michael Barr. You're
listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio
around the world.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
This is Blueoomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore
the big money issues in the world of sports. Michael Barr,
along with my colleagues Damian Sassauer and Vanessa Perdomo. Scarlett
fu is on assignment.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
One of your biggest sports teams, Manchester United, is ready
to build a brand new venue.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
The project for a new stadium could cost over two
billion dollars.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Here to talk to us about the project and more
is Bloomberg UK Business reporter David Hellier. First of all,
Hello and welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports.
Speaker 7 (13:35):
Yeah, Hi, good to speak to you guys.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Well, it's a brand new one hundred thousand seat venue.
Tell us about it because it looks like it's going
to be a big job producer.
Speaker 7 (13:47):
Yeah, it will be a big job producer if it
gets produced. It's still very contingent on the government doing
its bit and putting in a lot of money into
the reach generation of thee of the area. If that happens,
it's going to be a very big deal. It was
a curious announcement yesterday because you know we've been hearing
a lot about redevelopment of Old Trafford or maybe a
(14:08):
new stadium, which would it be And Jim Ratcliffe announced
it with kind of bit of san say yesterday in London,
which was a bit surprising. He would have thought he'd
have done it in Manchester in the building of Normal Foster,
the architect, and but yeah, he sort of kept saying
it's only going to happen if the government does its bit,
So it's still it's not a done deal as it were.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Is there going to be government funding helping build the stadium.
Speaker 7 (14:34):
Also, No, I mean they were clear that they would
fund the stadium themselves, the club, the company Manchester United,
would fund that themselves. That they are making it a
very conditional on transport links, you know, kind of landscape
areas outside the stadium, because they see this very much
as a regeneration scheme for the whole area. And they
(14:55):
were kind of saying, if the government doesn't do that,
then we're not really going to build, you know, we're
not going to build a stadium. So it's kind of
I think there's a lot to go for here still,
but it seemed to me that they were kind of
like putting a bit of pressure on the government, saying
that this is what we're going to do. We're going
to guarantee the stadium and it's going to cost two billion,
we're going to you know, raise up privately, but we
(15:16):
do want you to do your bit. And so I
think now it's kind of like a bit of pressure.
It does fit in in a way to the government's
overall program of you know, that Roath being the number
one thing that the government's talking about at the moment,
as well as sort of cutting back on other areas
as expenditure. But in certain fields, you know, in certain areas,
(15:37):
the government's really committed to growing the economy and whether then,
you know, there's going to be a big political debate
because should we really be growing the economy through the
creation of a football stadium or should it be through
the NHS, or should it be you know, industry or whatever.
Like I say, the debate is kind of just beginning now.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Well, David, you have to walk me through those right,
I mean, let me talking back a year when Jim
Radcliffe spent about a billion and a half dollars to
buy a third of the team.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Right.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
I think Forbes just in December place man U fourteenth
of all global sports franchises at a valuation of six
point six billion dollars. And yet I look at Manchester.
It's the fifth largest city in the United Kingdom. I
mean it's got what six hundred thousand people there, I mean,
I mean London's got eight point eight million. You know,
why should the UK government pay anything to build another
(16:27):
stadium in Manchester?
Speaker 7 (16:29):
You know, in terms of the performance in Manchester United.
I mean, it's exactly bad. The club hasn't been in
this kind of situation in the league since nineteen ninety one,
so before the Premier League League even existed. And it's
a very very small chance, but they are doing so
badly that they could be in the relegated at the
(16:51):
end of the season and in the Championship next season.
It is a very very tiny chance, but it's not impossible.
Three teams get relegated at the end of season. They
are very close to being in that fight, although coins
wise they would take ahead of lots and them to
go down. So they're playing really poorly. They've got a
new manager. He said, it's the worst Manchester United team
(17:12):
in history.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
All right, to beat up man you, but I mean,
I guess what I just want to get down to
is does the city really need another stadium? I mean,
with all that's going on in the UK economy right now,
you know, should taxpayer dollars be used for another stadium?
I mean, what is the benefit back to you, back
to the economy.
Speaker 7 (17:31):
Yeah, I mean that that is a good question. And
there were a lot of people that will not be
wanting the UK government to put a penny into this.
On the on the other side of the coin, the
UK economy, as you say, is very focused on London.
There's been over the past few years there's been all
kinds of government initiatives to try to encourage growth in
the northern part of the country, which is which is
(17:53):
less prosperous. There was a Northern Powerhouse that the Conservatives
tried to create but it never really got anywhere, and
it included sort of improving transport links and everything like that.
And in Manchester you do have two of the most
famous football clubs in the world. Of course too, you
have some I would say Manchester City you know would
count well no.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
But that But that's what I mean. I mean there's
already two. I guess what I'm just trying to say
is for a population of six hundred thousand people, right,
I mean they already have one hundred. I mean that's
the existing stadium, right, the legendary stadium seats one hundred thousand.
So I don't know what are they talking about. Are
they talking about another one hundred thousand you know capacity stadium?
Is it less than that? I mean, I'm just I'm
just trying to get the you know the thought process.
Speaker 7 (18:35):
Yeah, no, sure, sure, no. I mean it's an ambitious project.
I mean it's one hundred thousand, which would be the
biggest stadium, bigger than Wembley which is sort of eighty
nine thousands in London because you know, I mean Old
Trafflor that the current man Bensity United Stadium is already
the biggest stadium in London. This would be twenty five
thousand more so another thirty percent on top. But you know,
(18:57):
Manchester United Jim Rackliffe the other yesterday saying, you know,
it is the biggest what he thinks, it's the biggest
club in the world. It is one of the biggest
clubs in the world. It is capable of attracting one
hundred thousand and if it does that, and it would
do that probably unless it falls off a cliff on
the field, which is doing a good job of looking
like kids doing at the moment. But even at the moment,
(19:19):
even at fourteenth in the league, with no prospects of
Europe next season, no prospect of winning the league, it's
still getting seventy four thousand every single week, so there's
no shortage of people that want to go to see
Manchester United The question is not whether the stadium should
be built at all, but whether the government should put
its hand in its pocket and kind of help it
(19:40):
to be built. That's the question. I guess.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I know we're running out of time, but I want
to bring up never mind on the pitch about man
you off the pitch. Mister Ratcliffe has been cutting jobs.
He's trying to get cost under control. Can you comment
briefly about that?
Speaker 7 (19:55):
You know he's been so tough, I mean, like no
other football owner in England in recent years. He's cut
the workforce from about eleven hundred by four hundred and fifty.
He's cut the meals to free lunches, He's cut the
perks for employees who come down to London to the
Cup final last year, he cut the Christmas party. He's
(20:15):
really sort of what he's kind of bringing, carrying over
from his chemicals industry background, a real savage look at
costs by nothing else being done before in football. But
of course at the same time as he's doing that,
he's losing money on making bad decisions.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Bloomberg UK Business reporter David hell here, thank you so much,
sir for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports.
Our thanks to David Hellier for joining us. He's Bloomberg
News UK business.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Reporter and sticking with my sport here Soccer Bloomberg Dallas
beer chief Julie Fine recently caught up with Dan Hunt.
He's co owner of the Kansas City Chiefs and is
president of FC Dallas and he's.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
Making big plans for the FIFA World Cup in Texas.
That's your a little there conversation.
Speaker 9 (21:00):
News Dallas gets the international broadcast center for World Cup
in twenty twenty six in downtown Dallas. Okay, Bailey Hutchinson
Convention Center. Okay, So what exactly does that mean?
Speaker 5 (21:11):
Really, it's the storytelling of the entire World Cup. This
is the centralized broadcast center. In the twenty twenty two
World Cup and guitar there were one hundred and eighty
seven countries that broadcast live from that studio there in Doha.
And so we have what will be the broadcast center
for the twenty twenty six World Cup, and I expect
it to be more than one hundred and eighty seven countries,
(21:31):
and they're saying as many as five thousand media people
will be working at the center and broadcasting daily and.
Speaker 9 (21:38):
So financially, I mean it's a boom.
Speaker 7 (21:40):
I mean, let's talk about that.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
Yeah, I mean, you have five thousand people saying here
this is truly the kickoff to the World Cup. Though
you have so many people that will show up in
January or February to start setting up for broadcasts because
this is the storytelling that goes back to the countries
for each match, and there are one hundred and four matches.
The low estimates I've seen are two hundred million dollars
(22:02):
of economic impact for the Dallas for Worth area, and
I've heard as high as four hundred million. But you
can imagine this is tens of thousands of hotel nights.
Speaker 9 (22:11):
And again, this is the second time Dallas has hosted this.
That's got some family meaning.
Speaker 10 (22:14):
For the Hunts.
Speaker 7 (22:15):
It's a big win.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
Back in nineteen ninety four, we had the International Broadcast
Center here in Dallas. It was at Fair Park and
it was something my father Lamar was so proud of.
He just you know, it was such a win for
the community. I didn't really understand it at the time,
but as sort of the evolution has gone on and
I've gotten to see these broadcast centers and now these
latest generations, these are like you know, pop up cities,
(22:36):
bringing thousands and thousands of workers.
Speaker 9 (22:39):
You know, obviously there was some disappointment when it came
to the final. But again North Texas getting nine games,
and you know, I want to talk about North Texas.
It's getting the nine games. It's not just the city
of Dallas. I mean at and T Stadium is in Arlington.
They'll be practices at your facility.
Speaker 5 (22:54):
Yes, I mean this whole tournament will be spread out
throughout the metroplex. We got nine games, which is like
nine Super Bowl. We have the International Broadcast Center, which
is five thousand media personalities broadcasting globally. And then we
have these base camps that are setting up hopefully in
Frisco at Toyota Stadium will wind up with the base
camp of a visiting national team. That are multiple ones
(23:14):
in Dallas, even potentially ones in you know, Mansfield, maybe
of Fort Worth, and so it's spread out, but also
hotel rooms all across North Texas. We're in a really
unique spot in Dallas because Houston has six matches, Dallas
has nine, Kansas City has six, So somebody can make
a regional play to see a lot of World Cup
soccer by staying in North Texas.
Speaker 9 (23:36):
New York Times reporting today that FIFA is considering expanding
the twenty thirty World Men Cups World's Men Cup to
sixty four teams. Now twenty twenty six has already expanded
to forty eight. What's your thinking on sixty four?
Speaker 5 (23:49):
Yeah, look, forty eight with one hundred and four matches
is unbelievable. The drama that exists around that, But that
is a really heavy lift. You're talking about sixteen venues
in North America. You have, you know, Canada, United States, Mexico,
eleven of those in the United States, but these are
NFL stadiums. To go to sixty four teams, I think
would be incredibly difficult. I think we need to see
(24:12):
how forty eight works.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
First.
Speaker 5 (24:13):
You'll have first time qualifiers that have never actually qualified
for a World Cup, and you'll have teams that may
not have been in the tournament for thirty years. And
I think this is great for the game. It's growing
the game. But sixty four is a gigantic lead because
you truly will have a disparity between the top teams
and the teams that are down near to the bottom
of that got to.
Speaker 9 (24:31):
Ask, we haven't seen it since the Super Bowl.
Speaker 7 (24:33):
Thoughts on next season?
Speaker 5 (24:34):
Yeah, look, it was difficult. I am so proud of
what my brother has achieved. The Clark has done a
fantastic job at the Chiefs. This is truly a dynasty
and Andy Reid, Brett Veach, Mark Donod and that leadership
team is first class. And look, I think with the
salary cap going up, you know, twenty plus million dollars,
it's allowed a lot of teams to keep their franchises intact.
(24:56):
I think the free agent market isn't nearly as big
as people expect. So I'm really optimistic the Chiefs will
be back. So exciting times in Kansas City, and you know,
I'm just thankful I get to be part of it.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
That's FC Dallas, President at North Texas FIFA World Cup
Organizing Committee co chair Dan speaking with Bloomberg Dallas Bureau
chief Julie Fine.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Up.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Next, we turned to the world of insuring athletes for
my colleagues Damien Sassauer and Vanessa Perdomo. I'm Michael Barr.
You are listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from
Bloomberg Radio around the world.
Speaker 10 (25:46):
Get the news you need at the click Gogle button
inside your car. The new Bloomberg Business apps now featuring
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Radio shows plus news at your fingertips. Downloaded free in
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Speaker 1 (26:02):
This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Thanks for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports,
where we explore the big money issues in the world
of sports. Michael Barr, along with my colleagues Damian Sasauer
and Vanessa Pernomo Scarlett Fuo, is on assignment. As the
sports world grows, so does the risk, which is where
insurance comes in. Vince Tizzio is President and CEO of
(26:28):
Access Capital. He's here now to take us through the
multi billion dollar business of ensuring professional and college athletes, teams,
and leagues against injury and other big risks. Vince, Welcome
to the Bloomberg Business of Sports.
Speaker 6 (26:44):
Greaty to do with you all.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
I am sure that this is a tough thing to
deal with because it's one thing to ensure a baseball player,
even a football player. How in the world do you
ensure an auto racing driver. Because I'm there's got to
be a different risk in there somewhere, no.
Speaker 6 (27:03):
Doubt, no doubt. You know, there are a number of
differentiated factors that we account for depending upon the type
of athlete, the type of contact sport that they're engaged in,
and so there's a whole bunch of risk factors that
we look at, including the health and welfare of the
athlete themselves and the kind of measures that they take
(27:24):
to keep them in good stead. But it is certainly
a complicated but I have to adhit a really fun
part of our business.
Speaker 7 (27:31):
You know.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
One of the things I think of, Vince Whenai the
first thing I think of when I hear of like
ensuring in sports entities and things is looking at something
like that happened to hard Rock Stadium during the Copa
America right where fans are like destroying the stadium, They're
tearing it apart, and you have to really plan for
something like that. That's the first thing that popped into
(27:52):
my mind. How do you plan for risks like that?
What are those unique factors that a sports entity has
to deal with?
Speaker 6 (27:58):
Well, Vanessa, it's a great example of the breath of
the kind of insurance products that we deliver to not
only the industry and the athletes, but certainly the owners
of these sports teams the stadiums that they occupy. And
we call this the risk management practices of those entities, Right,
how do they protect their clients? What measures do they
(28:20):
put in place in ensuring that the stadium is constructed
in a stable way, it has risk mitigating factors on
egress ingress and these are all into the recipe of
how we assess the risk quality of anything that we
put our capital to. And so it's complicated, but there's
a pretty good playbook that allows us to gauge sort
(28:41):
of the propensity, as we call it a loss.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Vince, you're the president and chief executive officer for Access
Capital Holdings. For our audience, that's a seven point three
billion dollar market cap publicly traded on the New York
Stock Exchange. Stock price by the way, Michael bar up
sixty four percent last year, just you know, for everyone listening.
But Vince, I have to ask you this man, you're
out in Bermuda, is mid ocean or Tucker's point? I mean,
what's the better golf course? But seriously, let's talk about
(29:04):
specialty insurance for a minute, because you're on air with
us for the Bloomberg Business Sports talking about ensuring franchises,
you know, ensuring athletes, ensuring a range of different sports
related kind of I guess damages or injuries. But you know,
my goodness, what a big space it is. So you know,
talk to us about the focus Access has on this
segment of the market. How's it driving the business forward.
Speaker 6 (29:26):
So it's a multi billion dollar opportunity for Access to
pursue right between the athletes themselves, the owners of the
sports teams, the facilities that engage where the sports are
actually held. So firstly, it's a big market. Secondly, there's
a number of insurance products that are sought by those
respective entities, and we had access provide the full breadth
(29:49):
of coverages. Now, we we do have a sweet spot, right.
We think mid Ocean, by the way, is the direct
answer to your question.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
About sweet spot.
Speaker 6 (29:58):
The sweet spot for us is really the disability right
making certain that these life altering injuries are prevented to
the degree they can be, but also being there when
it really matters and providing insurance for that event. And
so that's the sweet spot that we've dedicated ourselves to. Interestingly,
we underwrit we bring this product to our lloyd syndicate
(30:21):
right out of Lloyd's of London in England. So it's
a really historic business for us. It's a vast marketplace
and we think specialization is the key to our underwriting success.
The improvement in safety protocols and the increasing focus on
the variety of sports. You know, you don't have to
look much farther than the Olympics and the new added
sports that they brought into the regiment at the Olympic events.
(30:46):
But also the continued ability to deal with how these
athletes are dealing with the increasing pressure, whether it takes
the fold of their low time, the increasing number of
events that they're participating in, the new technologies that helps
them measure the efficacy of how they're training, protecting them
in the welfare while engaged the club itself.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
And I'm going to give a classic example, and we
were talking about this off air before, about Garrett Cole
now the Yankees. They sign him four year contract, one
hundred and forty four million dollars and as my father
used to say, we didn't even get out of the
get go, and then all of a sudden he has
(31:28):
Tommy John surgery over for the season. And by the way,
Garrett cole get well, because we don't want to see
anything like that. But I mean it's I mean we're
talking now nine years it was three hundred and twenty
four million. I mean, this thing, what do the Yankees do?
Are they insured for something like this?
Speaker 6 (31:47):
They certainly we wouldn't speak about a specific climb, but
if you just use that illustration, right, that is exactly
what they come to the insurance marketplace to help them
in that unfortunate event. And so that is an example
of why sports teams and frankly the individual athlete themselves
seeks insurance from markets like Access Capital. There's no doubt
(32:11):
I believe that was Michael. That's a perfect illustration of
what the sports insurance can provide to both athletes and
the sports club and the owners of those teams respectively.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
One of the funny ish things I want to say
about the you know we hear that athletes do is
they ensure their body parts, right. You know, you have
soccer players insuring their legs, and I mean I've heard
of you know, like I mean, celebrities insure their hair
or whatever it is. Troy Pamalu was reportedly right that
(32:44):
he insured his hair a long time ago. How do
things like that really, you know, work for a Messi
who's insuring his legs.
Speaker 6 (32:54):
Yeah, well, it is precisely an approach that we in
the insurance industry have to find solutions. You know, how
do we assess whether or not Lionel Messi will break
his leg and whether or not he's taken the safety
protocols to ensure that his physical fitness is up to speed,
that his metabolism and his welfare and his heart rate
(33:14):
and all of that is assured in order for us
to make the statistical bet that he's less or more
likely to suffer such a sustainable injury. That goes into
some of the actual real approach that we take in
underwriting those kinds of risks, and it's it is completely
common for athletes to ensure the key body part that
(33:35):
makes their special sauce come to life on their respective fields.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
S Evince, do you have like a you know, team
of insurance appraisers following Leo Messi around to make sure
he's you know, not riding motorcycles and you know, skydiving.
Speaker 6 (33:49):
You know, in the event that there's a loss, you
could be assured that there's going to be some discovery
of making certain that what was represented on behalf of
the athlete is certainly being shown in their habits. There's
no doubt about it.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
Well, you know, I mean, I just I find you're
this segment of the business so fascinating, you know, and
you're the first guest that we've had to really talk
about the insurance side of the business of sports. And
so you know, from what I know about insurance, it's
a business of premiums. And what you're talking about here,
you're talking about sports teams and athletes, all of whom
have a lot of money. They're good counterparties, They're gonna
pay high premiums. And it just to me seems like
(34:23):
this little segment of the market that not a lot
of people are talking about. You know, everyone's you know,
looking at the wildfires in la you know, Vanessa and saying, oh,
all these wealthy Hollywood producers could afford those homes, but
they never took out the insurance right because the premiums
were too high. So, you know, so talk to us, Vince.
I mean, where is the middle ground here? I mean,
are you finding a lot of clients who are educated
(34:45):
on the topic and are willing to pay these premiums
because they're pretty rich, I imagine. But I mean, or
is it a sales call? I mean, do you have
to kind of explain to them what you're doing and
why it justifies the cost.
Speaker 6 (34:57):
You know, today it's a much more of conversation than
it's ever been. If you just look at your example,
you have la wildfires, you have hurricanes, you have cyclones,
you have floods, and you have athletes that are being
taxed with increasing participation, greater focused because of social media's
ability to exact information, awareness of their effectiveness, the statistics
(35:21):
that are being run on all of the range of
athletes out there, the knowledge and awareness of bringing insurance
as a remedy for whatever they're describing what they're solving for.
It could be the individual athlete, it could be the
sports owner, could be those god awful events that occur
in stadiums where there are people being run over or
other events of people hurting themselves. This is the role
(35:43):
and purpose of insurance, and I have to admit it's
increasingly a conversation as opposed to a sales pitch. Everyone
has seen what liability insurance costs are for commercial entities
in the United States, that same concept of risk and
reward is is a conversation and all facets of insurance,
including the sports arena. So it's dynamic. It's certainly a
(36:07):
topical conversation and one that we're happy to have a
voice and roll to play in to bring up.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Obviously we're talking about pro athletes here for the most part,
but I'm sure with nil out there college athletes, is
there a market out there for them? Also?
Speaker 6 (36:26):
They're sure is And it's a complicated market if you
think about it, Michael, because you have the introduction of
a number of breach of contract opportunities that these collegiate
athletes want to protect themselves, their image, their reputation, and
so their agents involvement in protecting that athlete is incredibly important.
(36:47):
And you know, it's an area where there's established law
to draw from, but there's also different unique fact patterns
that can arise in terms of how they fulfill The
athlete fulfills his or her obligation to the university that
they're playing with, and so it's an added dynamic. But
it goes to one of the earlier questions just on
the range of how insurance can play a role in
(37:10):
this ever growing industry of sports.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
I know if you looked at me now, you would say,
like you used to excel at some sport. Yeah, I
really was pretty good at bowling. I averaged like about
two twelve were in at my peak. And yes, I
see that the insurance ring. See there's another story, but
(37:34):
I know we're running out of it. I shot at
two ninety nine one time and it was a solid
nine pin. Man, I was vincent. Thank you so much,
sir for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports.
We really do appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (37:50):
Thanks for having me our.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Thanks to Vince Tizzio for joining us. He is the
president and CEO of Access Capital. And most importantly, thank you,
wile you for joining us. For my colleagues Damian Sassauer
and Vanessa Berdomo, I'm Michael Barr. Tune in again next
week for the latest on the stories moving big old
money in the world of sports, and don't forget to
(38:14):
catch our podcast and all your podcast platforms. You're listening
to The Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberger Radio around
the world.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is the Business
of Sports.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
The business of sports can be intimidating or hard for
a starting to break into.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
We really appreciate when our owners are actually there, you know,
with us through the journey.
Speaker 4 (00:18):
Teams ours especially have been very intentional to diversify at
all levels.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Of the company.
Speaker 5 (00:23):
I think we're in the bolden years for the NFL
and college football.
Speaker 6 (00:26):
Our demographic reach has continued to explaide.
Speaker 7 (00:29):
This is going to be really unlocking the streaming platform
for sports fans.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Sports valuations arising, we'll see when they peak. You don't
have to be the best in your sports to make
a whole ton of money.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Hello, this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports, where we
explore the big money issues in the world of sports.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
I'm Michael Barr, I'm Damian Sasaur, and I'm an Esperdemo.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Scarlett fu is on assignment. Coming up on the show,
we talk soccer and Manchester United's plans to build a big,
brand new facility.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
We will also hear from Dan Hunt. Of course, he's
co owner of the Kansas City Chiefs, but he's got
his eyest on soccer as president of FC Dallas. He's
got big plans for the FIFA World Cup when it
comes to the United States.
Speaker 7 (01:17):
We're in a really.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
Unique spot in Dallas because Houston has six matches, Dallas
has nine, Kansas City has six. So somebody can make
a regional play to see a lot of World Cup
soccer by staying in North Texas.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
All that and more is straight ahead on the Bloomberg
Business of Sports. But first we check in on the
sports media landscape with some streamers looking to grow in
live sports.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Right now, Amazon's making up ground on Disney in ad
dollars via cord cutters, and live sports is a big
part of that.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Here to take us through the latest research on this
from Bloomberg Intelligence is Bloomberg Intelligence technology and media analyst
Githa raganoffin Geetha, We've got a fight between Amazon and Disney.
What is this spat all about?
Speaker 8 (02:03):
So this is really so, you know, we had the
streaming wars. The streaming wars are over. We kind of
know who won more or for the most part that
was Netflix. Now really the next phase, I would say
of this whole kind of streaming land grab is become
the ad supported streaming wars. Right. So now everybody, all
(02:25):
of these major platforms, whether it's a Disney, whether it's
an Amazon, even in Netflix, has now advertising on their
streaming platform, and everybody is trying to juice up their
advertising business as well as their advertising based subscribers. And
this really is just you know, this makes sense because
(02:45):
eyeballs are moving from linear platforms to streaming, and so
obviously it makes sense that advertising dollars should also follow.
And you know, all of these platforms, whether it's a Disney,
whether it's an Amazon, whether it's a Netflix, they want
to make sure that they have skin in the game,
and they want to make sure that they're capturing as
much as they can off that connected TV ad pie.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
You know, tell us how obviously sports must play a
huge role in that. Now all these streamers want to
get live sports onto their networks. And I mean that's
really the only time that I can think of when
I'm sitting down watching during a game, that's pretty much
what it is. You know, you've got to just watch it.
So tell us about how sports is really pushing that
(03:25):
next ad space.
Speaker 8 (03:27):
Oh absolutely, So sports is really the last kind of
pastion for linear TV, which is why linear TV has
been really fighting hard to hold on to sports rights
as much as they can as long as they can.
But you know, it is kind of the bundle has,
you know, kind of finally cracked, and we are seeing
more and more sports actually leak out of the ecosystem,
(03:51):
and in many ways, I think Amazon has really kind
of pushed the envelope here, right, So we've seen Amazon
make a big play for you know, the Thursday Night package,
and this year I think is really transformative in many
ways because they have invested close to almost two billion dollars.
They're going to be paying about one point eight billion
dollars per year for an NBA package which allows them
(04:14):
to stream sixty six regular season games. So that's again
a huge bet. And again it goes to your point
when I said this is all about you know, this
has become the new battleground for all of these ads
supported tiers, and everybody wants to make sure that they
have the best content, and the best content is sports
because that is where you have a captive audience, and
(04:35):
so advertisers are willing to pay those big bucks in
order to reach those audiences.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
You know, Githa, you just have to remind our audience.
Where do we find games for the NFL this season.
I mean I'm looking right now right in Amazon. I
know it has NFL Thursday Night, It's got the Black Friday,
It's got some Wildcard games. Right, You've got, like you mentioned,
linear TV. I can't believe we call it linear TV now,
but we're calling it linear TV. I mean, they're going
to get your Sunday I know, kind of one o'clock,
four o'clock. I mean, I think Netflix has Christmas, Alphabet
(05:04):
has Sunday Ticket. I mean, I mean, I just I'm
trying to keep track of it all. You know, like
talk to me about you know, which you know and
which medium I mean, is going to really benefit the
most from sports broadcasting in the coming season.
Speaker 8 (05:17):
That's a great question, you know, content discovery, and you're
really talking about the biggest pain point. You have all
of this great content, but sometimes just kind of finding
it and knowing where to go it tends to be
so frustrating for all of these viewers. You know, I
think we are going to see some improvements through the year.
So the big, big, big thing that everybody is kind
(05:39):
of waiting for in the media world actually has to
do with a big sports announcement that's coming out from
Disney a little bit later this year, which is, for
the very first time in their history, they have ESPN,
which has always been kind of synonymous with the PayTV bundle,
is actually going to go a la carte, so they
call it ESPN Flagship, and this is basically all of
(06:00):
the marquee content. ESPN content, which traditionally you can only
get through a TV subscription, is now going to be
available over the top. And that's going to happen sometime
in August, and I think, what ESPN. You know, they
haven't necessarily made any announcements just yet. We do know
that the product is probably going to going to prize
anywhere from about twenty five to thirty dollars a month.
What they have said is, you know, obviously all of
(06:22):
the content is going to be there, They're going to
have they're going to integrate sports betting, They're going to
make it as customizable as possible, you know, kind of
really really prioritizing the user experience. I think that's that's
what they're really going for. But I think eventually once
they have a critical mass of subscribers on the platform.
(06:44):
They are going to finally, you know, integrate and kind
of bring in all of the other different sources. That
that's the way I'm thinking about it. It's you know,
we still have to see how exactly it plays out,
but they're going to, i think, make it easier for
people to find all of the sports content that they
want watch in one single place.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I want to ask this question and just giving a
view on society in general. And I'm old enough to
remember free TV. You just flip the channel, you turn
it on two which was CBS four, NBC seven, ABC,
and you saw what you wanted for free. And I
remember one day when I was still living with my
(07:24):
mom and dad and I wanted to get cable and
my father lost his mind. He was like, why in
the world would you want to pay for TV? Well, then,
you know, three satellites later, he you know, clicked into it.
My point is, how did we change as a society
from hey, this is free TV to now forget cable.
(07:47):
We've gone all the way to streaming this and streaming that.
Whatever gest your view on society. What changed us?
Speaker 8 (07:54):
Ondon is expensive, you know, so if you just kind
of look at Disney's content, right, they are one of
the biggest spenders in the media ecosystem, even more than Netflix.
So they're spending roughly twenty five billion dollars on content
every year, of which eleven billion dollars is just on
sports rights. So sports is a huge part of the equation.
(08:16):
And yes, Disney is paying out for that content. They are,
you know, they're they're paying and they have to get paid.
And that's really the whole origin of the PATV bundle
and people kind of shelling out one hundred dollars per
month and really the whole creation of the media food chain,
if you will, which by you know, right now is
kind of in shambles. But you know, content is still expensive.
(08:38):
Sports rights continue to be expensive. I mean, just that
last NBA deal, the one that that the NBA concluded
last year, saw a seventy percent not a seventy percent, sorry,
it was a two hundred and seventy percent increase in
the you know, the total rights package. So really exploding
(08:58):
in terms of you know, how we are seeing some
of these fee hikes play out. TKO is the other
big one which is right now actually negotiating for both
the UFC as well as some of the WWE rights.
They're looking for one hundred percent increase. So all of
these sports leagues they know that their content is valuable,
they know that people are you know, paying to watch,
(09:18):
and so you know, they're charging heavy fees and that
gets ultimately passed on to the consumer.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Githa, You brought up a lot there for Disney obviously
spending all this money and ESPN still really is that
name in sports that everybody knows, you know, is the
number one? But so is really the new NBA deal
and Thursday Night Football? Really how Amazon was able to
close this gap with Disney? Like, I feel like Disney
(09:44):
has HULO and they have Disney plus ESPN plus they
have all those things, so I feel like they should
be really in a league of their own. How is
Amazon really able to close that gap with them?
Speaker 8 (09:53):
Okay, so what Amazon did was kind of a little
bit sneaky, I would say, but I think it served
its purpose. So the way that you know, normally some
of these streaming platforms introduce their ADS supported tiers is
you know, they do the Netflix route, right, So if
a standard subscription costs fifteen dollars, you basically introduce an
ad supported subscription at about half the price of six
(10:13):
dollars or seven dollars a month. What Amazon basically did
is they said, hey, whatever you're watching right now, we're
just going to stuff ads there. If you don't want
to watch the ads, you know, you pay us extra.
So they took the exact opposite approach by just making
ads the default option for everybody and forcing them to
(10:34):
opt out of it. So that gave them, you know,
an instant subscriber base of almost I want to say,
almost one hundred and fifteen million. They started out actually
by saying that they had about one hundred and fifteen million, right,
we think that's obviously grown over the past year or so,
and that just allowed them to not only serve ads,
but you know, go to their advertisers and say, see,
(10:55):
we already have like one hundred and twenty million subscribers.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Is there any do you have any data that's come in?
Where there are you know, I guess fifty year old
plus guys like me who all of a sudden arrive
in streaming and we're actually shopping on TV during the games.
I mean so, I mean, now you talk about sports gambling,
Michael Barr. You see where I'm going here, and and
maybe we're just now scratching the surface of the potential, right,
I mean, do you have any numbers there that kind
(11:19):
of talk about, you know, people's willingness to sit through
commercials and actually shop online during games.
Speaker 8 (11:24):
I mean, this is such an excellent point that you
bring up, Damien, because this is this is really what
Amazon's play is, right. The connected TV is just the
gateway into really you know, merging entertainment and e commerce.
They want to have shoppable TV, right, They want their
viewers to make purchases right from their screens, and so
that that's you know, that's exactly what they want. And Amazon,
(11:46):
I mean, in terms of numbers, Amazon the way that
they've kind of conquered advertising. You know, just about five
to ten years ago, advertising was was zero dollars and
today for Amazon it's a sixty billion dollars bissiness. In
the next five years, this is probably going to go
to about one hundred billion, and a lot of that
is of course, their uh, you know, their e commerce business, right,
(12:08):
the search advertising or what we call retail media advertising,
and ultimately they want to do anything and everything they
can to choose those not only you know, the number
of people that they have shopping, but of course also
the you know, the advertising dollars everything, so everything goes
hand in hand here with Amazon. But you're absolutely right.
I mean, it is, it is that whole integrated experience
(12:28):
and they want people to spend more, you know, on
their platform, and they're doing it through this through the
ads to what they call shopical.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
TV our Thanks to Bloomberg Intelligence, Technology and media analyst
Githa Raganathin up next, we turned a soccer and man
use plans to build a brand new venue for my
colleagues Damian Sasaur and Vanessa Perdomo. I'm Michael Barr. You're
listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio
around the world.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
This is Blueoomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore
the big money issues in the world of sports. Michael Barr,
along with my colleagues Damian Sassauer and Vanessa Perdomo. Scarlett
fu is on assignment.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
One of your biggest sports teams, Manchester United, is ready
to build a brand new venue.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
The project for a new stadium could cost over two
billion dollars.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Here to talk to us about the project and more
is Bloomberg UK Business reporter David Hellier. First of all,
Hello and welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports.
Speaker 7 (13:35):
Yeah, Hi, good to speak to you guys.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Well, it's a brand new one hundred thousand seat venue.
Tell us about it because it looks like it's going
to be a big job producer.
Speaker 7 (13:47):
Yeah, it will be a big job producer if it
gets produced. It's still very contingent on the government doing
its bit and putting in a lot of money into
the reach generation of thee of the area. If that happens,
it's going to be a very big deal. It was
a curious announcement yesterday because you know we've been hearing
a lot about redevelopment of Old Trafford or maybe a
(14:08):
new stadium, which would it be And Jim Ratcliffe announced
it with kind of bit of san say yesterday in London,
which was a bit surprising. He would have thought he'd
have done it in Manchester in the building of Normal Foster,
the architect, and but yeah, he sort of kept saying
it's only going to happen if the government does its bit,
So it's still it's not a done deal as it were.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Is there going to be government funding helping build the stadium.
Speaker 7 (14:34):
Also, No, I mean they were clear that they would
fund the stadium themselves, the club, the company Manchester United,
would fund that themselves. That they are making it a
very conditional on transport links, you know, kind of landscape
areas outside the stadium, because they see this very much
as a regeneration scheme for the whole area. And they
(14:55):
were kind of saying, if the government doesn't do that,
then we're not really going to build, you know, we're
not going to build a stadium. So it's kind of
I think there's a lot to go for here still,
but it seemed to me that they were kind of
like putting a bit of pressure on the government, saying
that this is what we're going to do. We're going
to guarantee the stadium and it's going to cost two billion,
we're going to you know, raise up privately, but we
(15:16):
do want you to do your bit. And so I
think now it's kind of like a bit of pressure.
It does fit in in a way to the government's
overall program of you know, that Roath being the number
one thing that the government's talking about at the moment,
as well as sort of cutting back on other areas
as expenditure. But in certain fields, you know, in certain areas,
(15:37):
the government's really committed to growing the economy and whether then,
you know, there's going to be a big political debate
because should we really be growing the economy through the
creation of a football stadium or should it be through
the NHS, or should it be you know, industry or whatever.
Like I say, the debate is kind of just beginning now.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Well, David, you have to walk me through those right,
I mean, let me talking back a year when Jim
Radcliffe spent about a billion and a half dollars to
buy a third of the team.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Right.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
I think Forbes just in December place man U fourteenth
of all global sports franchises at a valuation of six
point six billion dollars. And yet I look at Manchester.
It's the fifth largest city in the United Kingdom. I
mean it's got what six hundred thousand people there, I mean,
I mean London's got eight point eight million. You know,
why should the UK government pay anything to build another
(16:27):
stadium in Manchester?
Speaker 7 (16:29):
You know, in terms of the performance in Manchester United.
I mean, it's exactly bad. The club hasn't been in
this kind of situation in the league since nineteen ninety one,
so before the Premier League League even existed. And it's
a very very small chance, but they are doing so
badly that they could be in the relegated at the
(16:51):
end of the season and in the Championship next season.
It is a very very tiny chance, but it's not impossible.
Three teams get relegated at the end of season. They
are very close to being in that fight, although coins
wise they would take ahead of lots and them to
go down. So they're playing really poorly. They've got a
new manager. He said, it's the worst Manchester United team
(17:12):
in history.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
All right, to beat up man you, but I mean,
I guess what I just want to get down to
is does the city really need another stadium? I mean,
with all that's going on in the UK economy right now,
you know, should taxpayer dollars be used for another stadium?
I mean, what is the benefit back to you, back
to the economy.
Speaker 7 (17:31):
Yeah, I mean that that is a good question. And
there were a lot of people that will not be
wanting the UK government to put a penny into this.
On the on the other side of the coin, the
UK economy, as you say, is very focused on London.
There's been over the past few years there's been all
kinds of government initiatives to try to encourage growth in
the northern part of the country, which is which is
(17:53):
less prosperous. There was a Northern Powerhouse that the Conservatives
tried to create but it never really got anywhere, and
it included sort of improving transport links and everything like that.
And in Manchester you do have two of the most
famous football clubs in the world. Of course too, you
have some I would say Manchester City you know would
count well no.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
But that But that's what I mean. I mean there's
already two. I guess what I'm just trying to say
is for a population of six hundred thousand people, right,
I mean they already have one hundred. I mean that's
the existing stadium, right, the legendary stadium seats one hundred thousand.
So I don't know what are they talking about. Are
they talking about another one hundred thousand you know capacity stadium?
Is it less than that? I mean, I'm just I'm
just trying to get the you know the thought process.
Speaker 7 (18:35):
Yeah, no, sure, sure, no. I mean it's an ambitious project.
I mean it's one hundred thousand, which would be the
biggest stadium, bigger than Wembley which is sort of eighty
nine thousands in London because you know, I mean Old
Trafflor that the current man Bensity United Stadium is already
the biggest stadium in London. This would be twenty five
thousand more so another thirty percent on top. But you know,
(18:57):
Manchester United Jim Rackliffe the other yesterday saying, you know,
it is the biggest what he thinks, it's the biggest
club in the world. It is one of the biggest
clubs in the world. It is capable of attracting one
hundred thousand and if it does that, and it would
do that probably unless it falls off a cliff on
the field, which is doing a good job of looking
like kids doing at the moment. But even at the moment,
(19:19):
even at fourteenth in the league, with no prospects of
Europe next season, no prospect of winning the league, it's
still getting seventy four thousand every single week, so there's
no shortage of people that want to go to see
Manchester United The question is not whether the stadium should
be built at all, but whether the government should put
its hand in its pocket and kind of help it
(19:40):
to be built. That's the question. I guess.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I know we're running out of time, but I want
to bring up never mind on the pitch about man
you off the pitch. Mister Ratcliffe has been cutting jobs.
He's trying to get cost under control. Can you comment
briefly about that?
Speaker 7 (19:55):
You know he's been so tough, I mean, like no
other football owner in England in recent years. He's cut
the workforce from about eleven hundred by four hundred and fifty.
He's cut the meals to free lunches, He's cut the
perks for employees who come down to London to the
Cup final last year, he cut the Christmas party. He's
(20:15):
really sort of what he's kind of bringing, carrying over
from his chemicals industry background, a real savage look at
costs by nothing else being done before in football. But
of course at the same time as he's doing that,
he's losing money on making bad decisions.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Bloomberg UK Business reporter David hell here, thank you so much,
sir for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports.
Our thanks to David Hellier for joining us. He's Bloomberg
News UK business.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Reporter and sticking with my sport here Soccer Bloomberg Dallas
beer chief Julie Fine recently caught up with Dan Hunt.
He's co owner of the Kansas City Chiefs and is
president of FC Dallas and he's.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
Making big plans for the FIFA World Cup in Texas.
That's your a little there conversation.
Speaker 9 (21:00):
News Dallas gets the international broadcast center for World Cup
in twenty twenty six in downtown Dallas. Okay, Bailey Hutchinson
Convention Center. Okay, So what exactly does that mean?
Speaker 5 (21:11):
Really, it's the storytelling of the entire World Cup. This
is the centralized broadcast center. In the twenty twenty two
World Cup and guitar there were one hundred and eighty
seven countries that broadcast live from that studio there in Doha.
And so we have what will be the broadcast center
for the twenty twenty six World Cup, and I expect
it to be more than one hundred and eighty seven countries,
(21:31):
and they're saying as many as five thousand media people
will be working at the center and broadcasting daily and.
Speaker 9 (21:38):
So financially, I mean it's a boom.
Speaker 7 (21:40):
I mean, let's talk about that.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
Yeah, I mean, you have five thousand people saying here
this is truly the kickoff to the World Cup. Though
you have so many people that will show up in
January or February to start setting up for broadcasts because
this is the storytelling that goes back to the countries
for each match, and there are one hundred and four matches.
The low estimates I've seen are two hundred million dollars
(22:02):
of economic impact for the Dallas for Worth area, and
I've heard as high as four hundred million. But you
can imagine this is tens of thousands of hotel nights.
Speaker 9 (22:11):
And again, this is the second time Dallas has hosted this.
That's got some family meaning.
Speaker 10 (22:14):
For the Hunts.
Speaker 7 (22:15):
It's a big win.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
Back in nineteen ninety four, we had the International Broadcast
Center here in Dallas. It was at Fair Park and
it was something my father Lamar was so proud of.
He just you know, it was such a win for
the community. I didn't really understand it at the time,
but as sort of the evolution has gone on and
I've gotten to see these broadcast centers and now these
latest generations, these are like you know, pop up cities,
(22:36):
bringing thousands and thousands of workers.
Speaker 9 (22:39):
You know, obviously there was some disappointment when it came
to the final. But again North Texas getting nine games,
and you know, I want to talk about North Texas.
It's getting the nine games. It's not just the city
of Dallas. I mean at and T Stadium is in Arlington.
They'll be practices at your facility.
Speaker 5 (22:54):
Yes, I mean this whole tournament will be spread out
throughout the metroplex. We got nine games, which is like
nine Super Bowl. We have the International Broadcast Center, which
is five thousand media personalities broadcasting globally. And then we
have these base camps that are setting up hopefully in
Frisco at Toyota Stadium will wind up with the base
camp of a visiting national team. That are multiple ones
(23:14):
in Dallas, even potentially ones in you know, Mansfield, maybe
of Fort Worth, and so it's spread out, but also
hotel rooms all across North Texas. We're in a really
unique spot in Dallas because Houston has six matches, Dallas
has nine, Kansas City has six, So somebody can make
a regional play to see a lot of World Cup
soccer by staying in North Texas.
Speaker 9 (23:36):
New York Times reporting today that FIFA is considering expanding
the twenty thirty World Men Cups World's Men Cup to
sixty four teams. Now twenty twenty six has already expanded
to forty eight. What's your thinking on sixty four?
Speaker 5 (23:49):
Yeah, look, forty eight with one hundred and four matches
is unbelievable. The drama that exists around that, But that
is a really heavy lift. You're talking about sixteen venues
in North America. You have, you know, Canada, United States, Mexico,
eleven of those in the United States, but these are
NFL stadiums. To go to sixty four teams, I think
would be incredibly difficult. I think we need to see
(24:12):
how forty eight works.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
First.
Speaker 5 (24:13):
You'll have first time qualifiers that have never actually qualified
for a World Cup, and you'll have teams that may
not have been in the tournament for thirty years. And
I think this is great for the game. It's growing
the game. But sixty four is a gigantic lead because
you truly will have a disparity between the top teams
and the teams that are down near to the bottom
of that got to.
Speaker 9 (24:31):
Ask, we haven't seen it since the Super Bowl.
Speaker 7 (24:33):
Thoughts on next season?
Speaker 5 (24:34):
Yeah, look, it was difficult. I am so proud of
what my brother has achieved. The Clark has done a
fantastic job at the Chiefs. This is truly a dynasty
and Andy Reid, Brett Veach, Mark Donod and that leadership
team is first class. And look, I think with the
salary cap going up, you know, twenty plus million dollars,
it's allowed a lot of teams to keep their franchises intact.
(24:56):
I think the free agent market isn't nearly as big
as people expect. So I'm really optimistic the Chiefs will
be back. So exciting times in Kansas City, and you know,
I'm just thankful I get to be part of it.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
That's FC Dallas, President at North Texas FIFA World Cup
Organizing Committee co chair Dan speaking with Bloomberg Dallas Bureau
chief Julie Fine.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Up.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Next, we turned to the world of insuring athletes for
my colleagues Damien Sassauer and Vanessa Perdomo. I'm Michael Barr.
You are listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from
Bloomberg Radio around the world.
Speaker 10 (25:46):
Get the news you need at the click Gogle button
inside your car. The new Bloomberg Business apps now featuring
Apple Car Play and Android Auto. All your favorite Bloomberg
Radio shows plus news at your fingertips. Downloaded free in
the Apple App Store or on Google Play.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Thanks for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports,
where we explore the big money issues in the world
of sports. Michael Barr, along with my colleagues Damian Sasauer
and Vanessa Pernomo Scarlett Fuo, is on assignment. As the
sports world grows, so does the risk, which is where
insurance comes in. Vince Tizzio is President and CEO of
(26:28):
Access Capital. He's here now to take us through the
multi billion dollar business of ensuring professional and college athletes, teams,
and leagues against injury and other big risks. Vince, Welcome
to the Bloomberg Business of Sports.
Speaker 6 (26:44):
Greaty to do with you all.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
I am sure that this is a tough thing to
deal with because it's one thing to ensure a baseball player,
even a football player. How in the world do you
ensure an auto racing driver. Because I'm there's got to
be a different risk in there somewhere, no.
Speaker 6 (27:03):
Doubt, no doubt. You know, there are a number of
differentiated factors that we account for depending upon the type
of athlete, the type of contact sport that they're engaged in,
and so there's a whole bunch of risk factors that
we look at, including the health and welfare of the
athlete themselves and the kind of measures that they take
(27:24):
to keep them in good stead. But it is certainly
a complicated but I have to adhit a really fun
part of our business.
Speaker 7 (27:31):
You know.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
One of the things I think of, Vince Whenai the
first thing I think of when I hear of like
ensuring in sports entities and things is looking at something
like that happened to hard Rock Stadium during the Copa
America right where fans are like destroying the stadium, They're
tearing it apart, and you have to really plan for
something like that. That's the first thing that popped into
(27:52):
my mind. How do you plan for risks like that?
What are those unique factors that a sports entity has
to deal with?
Speaker 6 (27:58):
Well, Vanessa, it's a great example of the breath of
the kind of insurance products that we deliver to not
only the industry and the athletes, but certainly the owners
of these sports teams the stadiums that they occupy. And
we call this the risk management practices of those entities, Right,
how do they protect their clients? What measures do they
(28:20):
put in place in ensuring that the stadium is constructed
in a stable way, it has risk mitigating factors on
egress ingress and these are all into the recipe of
how we assess the risk quality of anything that we
put our capital to. And so it's complicated, but there's
a pretty good playbook that allows us to gauge sort
(28:41):
of the propensity, as we call it a loss.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Vince, you're the president and chief executive officer for Access
Capital Holdings. For our audience, that's a seven point three
billion dollar market cap publicly traded on the New York
Stock Exchange. Stock price by the way, Michael bar up
sixty four percent last year, just you know, for everyone listening.
But Vince, I have to ask you this man, you're
out in Bermuda, is mid ocean or Tucker's point? I mean,
what's the better golf course? But seriously, let's talk about
(29:04):
specialty insurance for a minute, because you're on air with
us for the Bloomberg Business Sports talking about ensuring franchises,
you know, ensuring athletes, ensuring a range of different sports
related kind of I guess damages or injuries. But you know,
my goodness, what a big space it is. So you know,
talk to us about the focus Access has on this
segment of the market. How's it driving the business forward.
Speaker 6 (29:26):
So it's a multi billion dollar opportunity for Access to
pursue right between the athletes themselves, the owners of the
sports teams, the facilities that engage where the sports are
actually held. So firstly, it's a big market. Secondly, there's
a number of insurance products that are sought by those
respective entities, and we had access provide the full breadth
(29:49):
of coverages. Now, we we do have a sweet spot, right.
We think mid Ocean, by the way, is the direct
answer to your question.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
About sweet spot.
Speaker 6 (29:58):
The sweet spot for us is really the disability right
making certain that these life altering injuries are prevented to
the degree they can be, but also being there when
it really matters and providing insurance for that event. And
so that's the sweet spot that we've dedicated ourselves to. Interestingly,
we underwrit we bring this product to our lloyd syndicate
(30:21):
right out of Lloyd's of London in England. So it's
a really historic business for us. It's a vast marketplace
and we think specialization is the key to our underwriting success.
The improvement in safety protocols and the increasing focus on
the variety of sports. You know, you don't have to
look much farther than the Olympics and the new added
sports that they brought into the regiment at the Olympic events.
(30:46):
But also the continued ability to deal with how these
athletes are dealing with the increasing pressure, whether it takes
the fold of their low time, the increasing number of
events that they're participating in, the new technologies that helps
them measure the efficacy of how they're training, protecting them
in the welfare while engaged the club itself.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
And I'm going to give a classic example, and we
were talking about this off air before, about Garrett Cole
now the Yankees. They sign him four year contract, one
hundred and forty four million dollars and as my father
used to say, we didn't even get out of the
get go, and then all of a sudden he has
(31:28):
Tommy John surgery over for the season. And by the way,
Garrett cole get well, because we don't want to see
anything like that. But I mean it's I mean we're
talking now nine years it was three hundred and twenty
four million. I mean, this thing, what do the Yankees do?
Are they insured for something like this?
Speaker 6 (31:47):
They certainly we wouldn't speak about a specific climb, but
if you just use that illustration, right, that is exactly
what they come to the insurance marketplace to help them
in that unfortunate event. And so that is an example
of why sports teams and frankly the individual athlete themselves
seeks insurance from markets like Access Capital. There's no doubt
(32:11):
I believe that was Michael. That's a perfect illustration of
what the sports insurance can provide to both athletes and
the sports club and the owners of those teams respectively.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
One of the funny ish things I want to say
about the you know we hear that athletes do is
they ensure their body parts, right. You know, you have
soccer players insuring their legs, and I mean I've heard
of you know, like I mean, celebrities insure their hair
or whatever it is. Troy Pamalu was reportedly right that
(32:44):
he insured his hair a long time ago. How do
things like that really, you know, work for a Messi
who's insuring his legs.
Speaker 6 (32:54):
Yeah, well, it is precisely an approach that we in
the insurance industry have to find solutions. You know, how
do we assess whether or not Lionel Messi will break
his leg and whether or not he's taken the safety
protocols to ensure that his physical fitness is up to speed,
that his metabolism and his welfare and his heart rate
(33:14):
and all of that is assured in order for us
to make the statistical bet that he's less or more
likely to suffer such a sustainable injury. That goes into
some of the actual real approach that we take in
underwriting those kinds of risks, and it's it is completely
common for athletes to ensure the key body part that
(33:35):
makes their special sauce come to life on their respective fields.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
S Evince, do you have like a you know, team
of insurance appraisers following Leo Messi around to make sure
he's you know, not riding motorcycles and you know, skydiving.
Speaker 6 (33:49):
You know, in the event that there's a loss, you
could be assured that there's going to be some discovery
of making certain that what was represented on behalf of
the athlete is certainly being shown in their habits. There's
no doubt about it.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
Well, you know, I mean, I just I find you're
this segment of the business so fascinating, you know, and
you're the first guest that we've had to really talk
about the insurance side of the business of sports. And
so you know, from what I know about insurance, it's
a business of premiums. And what you're talking about here,
you're talking about sports teams and athletes, all of whom
have a lot of money. They're good counterparties, They're gonna
pay high premiums. And it just to me seems like
(34:23):
this little segment of the market that not a lot
of people are talking about. You know, everyone's you know,
looking at the wildfires in la you know, Vanessa and saying, oh,
all these wealthy Hollywood producers could afford those homes, but
they never took out the insurance right because the premiums
were too high. So, you know, so talk to us, Vince.
I mean, where is the middle ground here? I mean,
are you finding a lot of clients who are educated
(34:45):
on the topic and are willing to pay these premiums
because they're pretty rich, I imagine. But I mean, or
is it a sales call? I mean, do you have
to kind of explain to them what you're doing and
why it justifies the cost.
Speaker 6 (34:57):
You know, today it's a much more of conversation than
it's ever been. If you just look at your example,
you have la wildfires, you have hurricanes, you have cyclones,
you have floods, and you have athletes that are being
taxed with increasing participation, greater focused because of social media's
ability to exact information, awareness of their effectiveness, the statistics
(35:21):
that are being run on all of the range of
athletes out there, the knowledge and awareness of bringing insurance
as a remedy for whatever they're describing what they're solving for.
It could be the individual athlete, it could be the
sports owner, could be those god awful events that occur
in stadiums where there are people being run over or
other events of people hurting themselves. This is the role
(35:43):
and purpose of insurance, and I have to admit it's
increasingly a conversation as opposed to a sales pitch. Everyone
has seen what liability insurance costs are for commercial entities
in the United States, that same concept of risk and
reward is is a conversation and all facets of insurance,
including the sports arena. So it's dynamic. It's certainly a
(36:07):
topical conversation and one that we're happy to have a
voice and roll to play in to bring up.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Obviously we're talking about pro athletes here for the most part,
but I'm sure with nil out there college athletes, is
there a market out there for them? Also?
Speaker 6 (36:26):
They're sure is And it's a complicated market if you
think about it, Michael, because you have the introduction of
a number of breach of contract opportunities that these collegiate
athletes want to protect themselves, their image, their reputation, and
so their agents involvement in protecting that athlete is incredibly important.
(36:47):
And you know, it's an area where there's established law
to draw from, but there's also different unique fact patterns
that can arise in terms of how they fulfill The
athlete fulfills his or her obligation to the university that
they're playing with, and so it's an added dynamic. But
it goes to one of the earlier questions just on
the range of how insurance can play a role in
(37:10):
this ever growing industry of sports.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
I know if you looked at me now, you would say,
like you used to excel at some sport. Yeah, I
really was pretty good at bowling. I averaged like about
two twelve were in at my peak. And yes, I
see that the insurance ring. See there's another story, but
(37:34):
I know we're running out of it. I shot at
two ninety nine one time and it was a solid
nine pin. Man, I was vincent. Thank you so much,
sir for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports.
We really do appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (37:50):
Thanks for having me our.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Thanks to Vince Tizzio for joining us. He is the
president and CEO of Access Capital. And most importantly, thank you,
wile you for joining us. For my colleagues Damian Sassauer
and Vanessa Berdomo, I'm Michael Barr. Tune in again next
week for the latest on the stories moving big old
money in the world of sports, and don't forget to
(38:14):
catch our podcast and all your podcast platforms. You're listening
to The Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberger Radio around
the world.
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