September 5, 2025 • 39 mins
Join hosts Michael Barr, Damian Sassower and Vanessa Perdomo for a look at some of the latest headlines and stories in the business of sports.
On this special edition of the show, we present a few of our favorite conversations from Bloomberg Power Players New York from earlier this week. It's an annual event hosted at Bloomberg World Headquarters in New York, that brings together influential voices from the business behind sports to help you identify what's coming next.
On this episode, hear from:
- Sylvia Fowles, Two-Time WNBA Champion; Four-Time Olympic Gold Medalist; 2025 Naismith & Women’s Basketball Hall of Fame inductee & Terri Carmichael Jackson, Executive Director, WNBPA in a live panel discussion moderated by Bloomberg US sports business reporter Randall Williams
- Ross Bjork, Senior Vice President & Wolfe Foundation-Eugene Smith Endowed Athletics Director, The Ohio State University, Martin Jarmond, The Alice & Nahum Lainer Family Director of Athletics, UCLA & Nina King, Vice President, King-Compton Families Director of Athletics; Adjunct Professor of Business Administration, Duke University in a live panel moderated by Bloomberg News higher education finance reporter Janet Lorin
- Michael Arougheti, Co-Founder & CEO, Ares Management Corporation & Tom Garfinkel, Vice Chairman, President & CEO, Miami Dolphins & Hard Rock Stadium; Managing Partner, Formula 1® Crypto.com Miami Grand Prix in a live panel moderated by Bloomberg Originals chief correspondent and Power Players executive producer Jason Kelly
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is the Business
of Sports.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Sports are the greatest unscripted show owner.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
The next generation of players who really grew up with
tech and believe in tech.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
Your face is your ticket, your face is your wallet,
your face is your access to a club.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
These are such iconic and important buildings for businesses. For fans,
COVID was one of the best things that ever happened
to go.
Speaker 5 (00:29):
The NFL is a bulletproof business.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Raising is unique because there is absolutely no reason why
we can't compete with the guys.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Well, it's pro pickaball real.
Speaker 6 (00:36):
Are people really going to tune into this?
Speaker 5 (00:38):
If you're playing moneyball with a huge bag of money,
you're going to be really.
Speaker 7 (00:42):
Really good.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 6 (00:48):
Welcome to a special edition of The Bloomberg Business of
Sports featuring some of our favorite conversations from Power Players
New York. I'm Michael Barr. Power Players New York is
an annual event held right at Bloomberg World headquarters in
New York that brings together influential voices from the business
of sports. Stick around for a conversation about the future
(01:09):
of the NFL with Michael Arugetti, co founder and CEO
at Ares Management Corporation.
Speaker 8 (01:16):
As we think about just investing across the entire sports ecosystem,
the NFL kind of checks every.
Speaker 7 (01:21):
Box, right.
Speaker 8 (01:22):
I mean, most other leagues that we've invested in, there's
some risk that you have to box relegation or lack
of national media rights, but the NFL really.
Speaker 7 (01:30):
Sits at the top of the top.
Speaker 6 (01:33):
Plus here from Ross b York of Ohio State University
on a flood of new money, rising student athlete power,
and how it's reshaping the collegiate sports landscape. All that
and more is on the way on this special Bloomberg
Power Players, New York edition of The Bloomberg Business of Sports.
Let's start with a look at the w NBA. The
(01:54):
league suffered a bit of a gut punch this week
when it was announced that superstar Caitlin Clark we missed
the rest of the season with a right groin spring,
but overall the league is on an exciting trajectory. Bloomberg
US Sports Business reporter Randa Williams took the stage at
Power Players New York to speak with Terry Carmichael Jackson,
(02:16):
executive director at the WMDPA and two time w NBA
champion and four time Olympic gold medalist Sylvia Fouls. Let's
take it.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
Listen now, both both you and Terry have witnessed women's
basketball and this growth, the popularity of it just surge
over the last couple of years. You were part of
that wave towards the end of your career. Terry, you
saw it as well over the last say five to
six and really a decade long period of time. Terry,
what has that been like from your spot?
Speaker 9 (02:46):
Oh, my goodness, it has been amazing. This is my
tenth season.
Speaker 10 (02:52):
I tell her that all the time. I don't see
how she do a job.
Speaker 11 (02:55):
This is my tenth season in this job, and.
Speaker 9 (03:00):
I think at the end of each season, I kind
of go back to the beginning when I was interviewed
for this role and Swin Cash Tamika Catchings, you know,
they were on the executive committee at that time, and
they asked me, where do you see yourself? Where do
you see this union in five to ten years? And
(03:22):
I remember it like yesterday. I said, you know, we're
gonna value who we are as women's basketball, and we're
going to value the fact that we're different, and we're
not going to like always compare ourselves to the guys.
It's helpful to look over in their space and see
what they're doing and how they're moving, but you know,
know who we are and just value different for exactly.
Speaker 11 (03:41):
What it is.
Speaker 9 (03:42):
It is different and to see that and to still
be in this role and to see that happen, and
to see the women like Sylvia, these legends, you know,
during their career be celebrated and be on these billboards
and truly be household names. And and I just love
(04:02):
how you talked about, you know, the unity.
Speaker 11 (04:04):
We didn't talk.
Speaker 9 (04:04):
About this backstage, y'all when she was talking about the
unity and the power of the players. That is something
that is really something. And so it's just been amazing.
And watch out, y'all, it's going to continue to be amazing.
Speaker 11 (04:19):
I promise. We are in a labor fight.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
Wait wait, we're not there yet.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah, get to the labor talks.
Speaker 5 (04:27):
On the business front, throw I feel like in the
last four years, of course, when the Aces and Liberty
played that broke incredible records, and then last years and
the year and maybe I was twenty twenty three in
the year.
Speaker 11 (04:38):
Before that, as well, they just keep topping them.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
Exactly what's it been like on the business front, how
have the calls changed? I mean towards the end of
your career, this was happening, But what was it like
as maybe the visibility increased over time.
Speaker 10 (04:54):
It's phenomenal.
Speaker 12 (04:55):
Like I say, it's something that we've been fighting for
for years and so to have this platform now and
send all this attention that these young women are getting,
I think is life changing. So hopefully that it could
continue from here and we keep pushing forward.
Speaker 5 (05:09):
Now there are brands jumping to be next to the
league we've s I mean you all were both I
assuming in Indianapolis for uh, for WNBA All Star Weekend.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
There we're not there.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
Yeah, they were treating Indianapolis like it.
Speaker 10 (05:19):
Was Vegas ash they should.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
With that in mind.
Speaker 13 (05:24):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
There there was more branding in Indianapolis than I have
ever seen at the WNBA All Star Weekend. I'll ask you, Sylvia,
if there was a brand that you could collab that
you could have collaborated in during your time playing, or
maybe there's one that you're proud of that you did
collaborate with, UH with, what would it have been? Would
it have been a signature sneaker or what do you
think it would have been?
Speaker 12 (05:45):
For those who know me, know, I don't think of myself,
so I always thinking outside of the box about other people.
So my biggest thing is what can I give back?
And the youth is very important to me, and so
I would love to collab with anybody that's unity based
around youth and taking care.
Speaker 10 (06:02):
Of the kids is something that I'll probably look forward to.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
Beautiful, Beautiful Terry. What's been your favorite WNBA collaboration that
you've seen?
Speaker 9 (06:11):
My favorite WNBPA has been with Loreal. You know, we
had players talking for so long about where's our beauty
brand partnership? Like we're a women's league, like this is
a no brainer. And I'm like, yeah, you're right, let's
work on that. And had a conversation, had a relationship
(06:35):
with an executive VP over at L'Oreal and Lil Majid,
and you know, she called me one day and she said,
how can we help? And I was like, wait, is
this really happening? How like a brand is calling and
saying how can we help? Like I don't have to
pitch you And she's like, no, I know who you
guys are. I know what you're all about. We want
(06:55):
to support, we want to pour into the players, and
we want to do it through a partnership with you
through the union. And I was like, break next speed,
let me come over and you know, and sit down
and talk. And we did just that. So that has
been a very meaningful one. I think that's really put
us on the map and particularly meaningful for our members too,
to see that we were listening to you know, what
(07:17):
they were talking about. And it's not just it's beauty,
it's skincare, it's like all the things. It's about feeling
good inside and out. And I'm really proud of that partnership,
I really am. But there's so many that we do.
I don't want to leave anybody out Farmer's fridge. If
you guys are ever in the airport, you see those
vending machines like it's real, it's good, Like you can
go there, you can trust it, promise you. That's just
(07:39):
another example.
Speaker 5 (07:41):
Now we're on the subject of business, and you are,
I mean, one of the maybe five most important people
in these WNBA CBA negotiations and might be one of
the two most important people. Map out to us what
the players are asking for in this proposal and in
these negotiations.
Speaker 9 (07:59):
Yeah, well, I'm going to go back to your question
to cyl. You said, was she and Indy. I was
in Indy. There was a meeting in Indy.
Speaker 6 (08:07):
I heard about it.
Speaker 14 (08:08):
Yeah, yeah, there's a you know, I always start with
this whole you know, we don't negotiate in the press,
and then I start talking about, you know, what the
players are really after.
Speaker 11 (08:19):
I mean, but when they opted out, when the.
Speaker 9 (08:21):
Players voted to opt out of this twenty twenty CBA,
they said really pretty clearly what was on their minds,
what their priorities were, and it's top one of the
top priorities. What we say, the main thing is, the
main thing is a salary system that is tied to
the business so that these players are paid their value.
Speaker 11 (08:44):
Right now, we're in a system.
Speaker 9 (08:46):
That, if you look at it, it's not tied to
the business, and so it's designed to undervalue them. As
the business grows, they start to fall behind. And we've
got to write that ship. And we've got a moment
right now to do that. And it's not just like
a moment, right We've seen the growth we were talking
about the topping themselves with all the metrics that you
(09:08):
all are watching, right with viewership, with attendance, with Jersey sales,
and on and on and on. They keep topping themselves.
We see what Kathy and her team is doing on
the league side to grow the business. And it's been
twelve teams for forever, right, it has been twelve teams
for forever and blink, and it's going to be eighteen
(09:32):
and maybe on the way to twenty. And this is
no inside knowledge. I'm just saying it just looks and
feels that way, right, And so this is a sustainable
model that because the players opted out of the twenty
fourteen CBA to fix the business model to get that,
you know, on the track for the twenty twenty CBA.
Speaker 11 (09:54):
It's why we are here in.
Speaker 9 (09:56):
Twenty twenty five fighting to make make sure that this
business really loves them back the way they have loved it,
the way they have poured into it. We see it
across in other men's sports.
Speaker 11 (10:10):
We can do that. We can do that in women's sports.
Speaker 9 (10:12):
And when we do that, you know, the women are
gonna win, The players are gonna win, the teams are
gonna win, the league is gonna win.
Speaker 11 (10:22):
Seems like a no brainer to me.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
You mentioned All Star weekend. A couple weeks before All
Star Weekend the league announced those three expansion teams. I
believe it's in twenty twenty eight, twenty twenty nine, and
twenty thirty, a total of seven hundred and fifty million
dollars in expansion fees.
Speaker 11 (10:36):
But say that number again, seven hundred and.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
Fifty million dollars in expansion fees, two hundred and fifty
million each. You know, you times three and you get
seven hundred and fifty. I was told that their first
counter proposal came shortly after that, and there are a
bunch of player comments about it. I think Satu Satoo
Sabai had the most to say, or maybe the most
powerful quote, which was that it was a slap.
Speaker 7 (10:59):
In the face.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
So what was your feeling reading what the league sent you?
Speaker 11 (11:06):
It's not too sadly. First of all, is our co
chair of the CBA committee.
Speaker 9 (11:11):
She's pretty dialed in and she's pretty passionate about about
the work.
Speaker 11 (11:18):
What was my feeling reading the proposal that.
Speaker 9 (11:21):
We had some work to do, that perhaps the league
and the teams didn't fully hear the players when we
opted out and we had our first bargaining session, and
so they were going to have to be more conversations
to ensure that they did fully hear what the player
said and what they meant. I'm clear, I work for them,
(11:43):
you know, I understand the mission, I understand the directive,
and so we're just going to have to sit down
and have more of those conversations. However hard they are,
We'll just continue to do it period.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
Sylvia, you negotiated or were part of negotiations years ago.
I believe that was in twenty twenty. What were your
negotiations like back then?
Speaker 11 (12:05):
Were you part of twenty fourteen?
Speaker 15 (12:07):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (12:08):
Oh, those two what you like that?
Speaker 12 (12:11):
Yes, because it's intense, especially when you don't feel like
you've been heard.
Speaker 10 (12:17):
But like Terry say, you're very passionate.
Speaker 12 (12:19):
About something that you do, and with our job, it
comes with any other job that's physical mentally, taxing, taxing
on your body physically, and so we just want to
be heard, but we also want to be seen as well.
And so those negotiations was like very clears, like this
is what we're standing on. We're going to stand on
all on accord, making sure everybody is on the same page.
So I messed because we be heard across the board.
Speaker 6 (12:41):
That's w NBPA Terry Kerrmichael Jackson and two time w
NBA Champion Sylvia Files on stage at Bloomberg Power Players,
New York speaking with Bloomberg US Sports business reporter Randall Williams.
Up next more from Power Players, New York on this
edition of The Bloomberg Business of Sports. I'm Michael Barr,
(13:03):
and you're listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from
Bloomberg Radio around the World.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 6 (13:17):
This is a special edition of The Bloomberg Business of
Sports featuring some of our favorite conversations from Bloomberg Power
Players New York, presented by Invesco. I'm Michael Barr. Bloomberg
Power Players New York is an annual event we have
right here at Bloomberg World Headquarters in New York, where
we welcome influential voices from the business of sports to
(13:39):
identify the next wave of disruption that could hit the
multi trillion dollars sports industry around the world. Let's take
a look now at the college sports landscape, which has
been turned upside down recently due to a mix of
a flood of new money, rising student athlete power, difference shakeups,
(14:01):
and more. Bloomberg News Higher education finance reporter Janet Lauren
took the stage at Power Players, New York to speak
with Ross York. He is the senior vice president and
Wolf Foundation Eugene Smith Endowed Athletics Director at Ohio State University,
Martin Jarman, the Alice and Nahem Lanier Family Director of
(14:24):
Athletics at UCLA, and Nina King, Vice President and King
Compton Family's Director of Athletics and Adjunct Professor of Business
Administration at Duke University. For a special discussion on what's
next for college sports. Let's listen in.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
So, Ross, your team is the defending national champions. The
Ohio State Texas game was the most watched Week one
CFB game ever. So how is your job different from
when you started?
Speaker 7 (14:56):
Are we done and we just we just shut it down?
Speaker 6 (14:58):
Are we good?
Speaker 13 (15:00):
Championship? Eat number one team? And I guess now we're
ranked number one? So now we have the target on
our back. You know, first of all, thanks for having
us today and talk about college sports. You know, look,
I think you you know, in leadership, I think in
anything you know, you want to celebrate the moments, but
never too high, never too low. So you have to
keep this balanced perspective of the jobs never finished, the
(15:23):
journeys never finished. We have to keep pushing, especially in
this modern era. So you know, and I think a
lot of times we can take the lead of our players,
and our players that were returning off of last year's
national championship team. We started putting up these pictures and
these banners national champions and holding up the trophy and
all that, and they said, hey, can you take some
(15:44):
of that stuff down because we won our own identity,
and so following the lead of our athletes I think
has been a mantra for us to say, look, the
job's never finished. You know, we're we have jobs that
we operate almost like a political campaign, churning, churning, campaigning,
dinners events.
Speaker 7 (16:03):
But we don't have an election day.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
We have game day and there's a scoreboard.
Speaker 13 (16:07):
But as far as what we do in pouring into
young people and building buildings and the nil chase and
the revenue share and the television world, there really is
not a finish line because there's always something next. So
that's how we're approaching it in an Ohio state. We
still have an upside in many ways on the business front.
So we're trying to capitalize on all those things as
(16:28):
it relates to winning that national championship.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
So you brought up an Io.
Speaker 11 (16:32):
Let's get into that right now.
Speaker 7 (16:34):
It can get the hard questions.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
So you guys are literally signing checks for revenue sharing agreements.
Speaker 11 (16:40):
Martin, how much have you paid out so far?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Wow? She goes there for the hard ones.
Speaker 16 (16:49):
Well, before I answer that hard question, thank you for
having us here. And it's an honor to be with you.
Speaker 6 (16:56):
You know, it's a new day.
Speaker 16 (16:57):
July first started the new era where you could share
revenue with student athletes at UCLA. We started August first,
and as of August first, for the month of August,
we shared four point eight million dollars. Wow, out of
our twenty point five million, that's allotted. So a lot
of checks were being signed in August and more to come.
But it's exciting. You know, our student athletes deserve that. UCLA.
(17:21):
We've always been a proponent of that, and so you know,
just how you manage that, how you make sure that
we get We've been preparing for this for a while
with the infrastructure needed to get all the student athletes information.
We use PayPal and the Big ten to make those
payments and do those out, but it's a big undertaking
(17:42):
just to be able to do that and kind of
flip the switch and turn it on.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Wow, Rina, how much do you think these agreements are
going to have a role in retention? Might we see
fewer people going in the transfer portal?
Speaker 11 (17:55):
That's the hope first of all.
Speaker 17 (17:57):
Also, let me echo my call sentiments and thank you
for having us here. And I thought the panel would
be at least four hours for us to be able
to kind of delve into some of these issues. But
you know, there are a lot of moving parts, and
you know, yeah, that's the hope. And for these agreements,
they're structured. Every institution can can decide how to structure
(18:21):
them and so and then even for us between sports
they're structured a little bit differently. The term is different,
and so you know, across several sports that we're revenue
sharing with, it's a lot of moving pieces. And when
I was signing all of those, we finally got a
stamp in my office so that we can get them
done quickly. But you know, we are looking to protect
(18:44):
the university, you know, for these agreements, also to do
what's in the best interest of the student athletes. But
this is a business arrangement now with them, and and
so you know, we we've got plenty of lawyers involved
in writing agreements again to go back to protecting the university.
But I absolutely think this is the right thing to
be doing for these student athletes. I'm not going to
(19:07):
tell you how many checks I've signed and how much
they've totaled up to up to this point, but we
are trying to be competitive in this space.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
So let me share some numbers. Between June and August,
the amount of money distributed has been eighty million dollars.
It's almost a million dollars a day and about one
hundred deals a day.
Speaker 11 (19:26):
What do you think of this?
Speaker 13 (19:28):
Ross is that the latest statistics came out in the
College Sports Commission.
Speaker 7 (19:32):
They just released that.
Speaker 13 (19:33):
So I think it's great that, you know, we've been
asking for some transparency right around this. You know, look,
I think it's I think it's awesome opportunities for our athletes.
You know, what do we say about college, You go there,
receive an education, prepare yourself.
Speaker 7 (19:47):
For the next level. Whatever that is.
Speaker 13 (19:50):
Maybe you can go pro excuse me, your in your sport,
I might need that emergency water. We were joking about that.
Now it got me, you know, so I think it's
an awesome opportunity to basically have these athletes have the
opportunities that other students have always had, but in our
world we restricted it. You can't be in a video game,
you can't use YouTube channel, you can't monetize social media.
(20:14):
You can't, you can't, you can't. And now it's like,
let's go full throttle. And so we're seeing these big
numbers and some of it may be shocking, but in
a lot of ways, it's a catch up phase in
some ways because our athletes have been restricted for so long.
So I think all of us that are setting here,
I think, as we try to be competitive in the
(20:35):
new world again, how do we provide opportunities for third party?
In IL we're going to have the revshare cap from
the university. That's going to be standard, but what does
the third party roadmap look like? That's probably the next
sort of arms race and all of this, and again
it's all about what can the athlete be provided in
(20:55):
this moment in time and so we're all pushing, you know,
towards that new area.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
So with all this revenue sharing a lot going to football, basketball,
that leaves other sports maybe not with as much money.
So let's talk about Olympic sports. Martin Los Angeles is
hosting the Olympics in twenty twenty. The Olympic Village is
going to be on your campus. Do you know how
many medals you see LA athletes have won almost three hundred,
(21:23):
two hundred and eighty four.
Speaker 10 (21:24):
Yes, yeh.
Speaker 11 (21:26):
That's a lot of change.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
And we're already starting to see schools cut teams diving
at Virginia swimming and diving at CalPoly. What is the
risk to the United States? Are we going to have
fewer medals after this big shakeup?
Speaker 16 (21:41):
So first let me say at UCLA, we have a
proud tradition with our Olympic sports. You know, since nineteen
twenty eight, we've had four hundred and thirty six bruins
make six hundred and sixty one Olympic teams. So that's
I mean, we're we're if we're not the highest as
we're in the top two in the country as far
(22:03):
as producing Olympians. We have a phrase at UCLA Athletics
champions made here. It's Olympians made here too, So we
take our investment in our Olympic sports very seriously. That said,
you know, the financial model has changed, the realities have changed,
and we're extremely excited to be hosting LA twenty eight
and Olympics in twenty eight and having them on campus
(22:24):
in Westwood, But there is a concern after LA twenty
eight what programs around the country are going to.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Do with their Olympic sports. You know, we're going to
keep investing.
Speaker 16 (22:35):
We think it's very important to continue to produce Olympians
champions and that's important, but at the same time, the
financial realities are changing, and so you know, what we're
talking about more is we need to really study, in
my opinion, what other countries do as far as how
they fund Olympic sports, and take those learnings from other
(22:58):
countries and apply it to what we do here in
the United States. Because I think we're going to be
very strong LA twenty eight. I think the whole you know,
the whole country is going to get behind that. And
Casey Washerman has done an excellent job. He's a bruin
with all the planning, and I think we're going to
perform well, but there is a concern after LA twenty eight.
What does that mean? You know, is there going to
(23:19):
be a cliff with Olympic sports. I don't see that
obviously at UCLA, but I do worry about as a
whole our Olympic movement if we don't figure out a
better way to fund Olympic.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Sports, because that's the issue.
Speaker 16 (23:32):
The issue is the funding model for Olympic sports, and
I think that's got to adjust.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
So let's talk about the funding model. We keep hearing
the idea of private equity. Is it coming for college sports?
How would this even work?
Speaker 11 (23:46):
Nina? Can we call it?
Speaker 10 (23:47):
David rubinsteinback?
Speaker 17 (23:48):
I mean, I think he's the one that we need
to be asking that question. You know, yes, the financial
model in college athletics is stressed. The way that we
are operating as a business model. I mean you also
opened our books to you you would think it's a
joke the way that we are operating. And so we
(24:09):
need to figure out how to build something more sustainable
so we can support broad based programming. You know, a
student athlete opportunities to come to our campuses, not just
to compete in sports, but but to you know, receive
a my case of duke degree. And so, you know what,
we are exploring all kinds of revenue models, and that
(24:32):
certainly includes private equity in the traditional sense. I'm not
convinced that it would work, but we're talking to a
lot of folks to kind of figure out.
Speaker 11 (24:40):
Is are there hybrid models?
Speaker 17 (24:42):
Are there unique ways that we could do something to
infuse capital cash into our athletics departments and into our universities.
I mean, I think there are a lot of revenue
opportunities on campus as well, and so how do we
kind of create that synergy with campus to to continue
to build revenue. We are heavily reliant on philanthropy, and
(25:05):
you know, but if we could have been raising an
extra twenty point five million dollars a year, we would
have been And so I don't think, you know, straight
philanthropy is the answer. And so, like I said, we
are exploring everything, and I think private equity is on
the table for sure.
Speaker 6 (25:20):
That's Bloomberg News Higher education finance reporter Janet Lauren in
a panel discussion with Ross B. York of Ohio State University,
Martin Jermond of UCLA, and Nina King of Dunk University
from Bloomberg Power Players, New York. Up next, more from
Power Players with a look at what's next in the NFL.
(25:43):
Michael Barr and you're listening to a special edition of
the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberger Radio around the world.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 6 (26:06):
Thanks for joining us for a special edition of The
Bloomberg Business of Sports as we listened to some of
our favorite conversations heard live at the Bloomberg Power Players
New York. I'm Michael Barr. It's opening weekend for the NFL,
and one of our key conversations at Power Players New
York was on what's next for the league. Bloomberg Original's
(26:27):
chief correspondent and Power Players executive producer Jason Kelly was
joined on stage by Michael Erughetti, co founder and CEO
at Aries Management Corporation, and Tom Garfinkel, Vice Chairman, president
and CEO of the Miami Dolphins and hard Rock Stadium
to talk about where the big money in the NFL
(26:50):
is going next.
Speaker 18 (26:51):
You guys made some big headlines last year. Aries as
an investor into the Miami Dolphins under these new rules
that the NFL adopted to bring institutional capital, and my
main question for you, as the recipient of such an investment, Tom,
is how's it going? How does it you know, how
does private equity sort of change?
Speaker 10 (27:10):
And how am I doing now?
Speaker 15 (27:16):
It's it's fantastic.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
I mean, we couldn't have better partners, I think, you know,
obviously the NFL was so diligent in the process of
how private equity came into the sport and who was
selected to come in, and there are reasons for coming in,
and we couldn't have a better partner. And Arias I'm
not just saying that because Mike's sitting sitting here, but uh,
the whole team from Mary's has been strategic partners.
Speaker 15 (27:38):
You know, long term.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
They've got a long term view on things and uh,
and they're a lot of fun to be with.
Speaker 15 (27:43):
So you know, it's kind of the best of all worlds.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
So why do it? Why go in? Well? What what's
so great about the NFL? Well, I said, somewhat sarcastically,
but you know.
Speaker 8 (27:55):
Football is obviously the most watched sport, huge scarcity value,
ever increasing media rights value. The business model of the
NFL is probably one of the most durable in all
of sports, and so as we think about just investing
(28:15):
across the entire sports ecosystem, the NFL kind of checks
every box, right. I mean, most other leagues that we've
invested in, there's some risk that you have to box
relegation or lack of you know, national media rights, but
the NFL really sits at the top of the top.
Speaker 7 (28:34):
You know.
Speaker 8 (28:35):
There was a long process, as Tom hinted at, just
to get authorized.
Speaker 7 (28:39):
To invest in the league.
Speaker 8 (28:43):
We are incredibly proud and humbled by the fact that
we were selected in a very small handful of people
to do it. And I think a lot of that
is just the experience that we brought to the table,
but also the respect for just how important is to
be a good, long term oriented partner.
Speaker 7 (29:00):
The Dolphins were our first I don't know if it'll
be our only, but.
Speaker 8 (29:05):
In NFL, the Dolphins are particularly unique as well, given
the multitude of assets, stadium, F one, tennis, all the
things that's surrounded.
Speaker 7 (29:14):
So we thought that it was a really good place
to start.
Speaker 18 (29:16):
And I want to talk more about that in a second,
but one thing that does strike me. Tom and the
three of us have talked about this individually over the
past few months. Is this idea that you know, you
guys did your deal, the Bills did their deal with Arctos.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
There have been a couple other minority stake sales.
Speaker 18 (29:34):
Including one reporter by Bloomberg with the Koch family coming
into the New York Giants.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Tom, Are you surprised there hasn't been more?
Speaker 17 (29:43):
No?
Speaker 3 (29:43):
I think again, I think the NFL. I think ownership
of these teams are being very deliberate, very patient in
their selection. And given the valuation of the deal that
you announced, Mike's already got a great.
Speaker 18 (29:59):
Deal with us, reportedly a ten billion dollar valuation.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
I think I love that. I think the fact that
some of the owners are waiting, I think they're expecting
values to continue to rise, and I think they're right.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
What do you think about valuations?
Speaker 18 (30:15):
I mean, having done the underwriting here and done all
this diligence, where valuations right now?
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Where they go?
Speaker 7 (30:20):
When the first.
Speaker 8 (30:23):
Investment came into the league at a five and a
half billion dollar evaluation, I think people were shocked. The
median value in the NFL now is about seven point
one billion, and with every successive investment you're seeing those
values go up.
Speaker 7 (30:37):
Some of that is the presence of institutional equity.
Speaker 8 (30:39):
So if you just look at sports team valuations in general,
you'll see an inflection. NBA saw it, NHL saw it
when institutional capital comes in because you're dealing with asset
scarcity and when you start to open up new channels
for investment, valuations will naturally go up.
Speaker 7 (30:57):
So I think you're beginning.
Speaker 8 (30:59):
To see that scar city value thesis play out. And
then the media rights, you know, continue to go up.
And so sports franchises have compounded a ten to fifteen
percent per year for the last fifteen years, and then
they get these periodic inflections whenever you up to her
the media rights.
Speaker 7 (31:16):
But I think will continue to go up.
Speaker 18 (31:18):
And Tom, do you agree, Like, how fast will they
go up? I mean, how soon are we going to
see a twenty billion dollar team? I mean, I know
it's hard to project, but I.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Think that's going to happen sooner than people expect. Look,
I think I look at it maybe more simplistically. I
just think that it's fundamentally supply and demand. You've got
a lot of demand for these assets. They don't go
for sale. There's a scarcity supply of them. The NFL
is a fantastic business model. It's also a group of
(31:49):
owners that sort of a club some people want to
be in. But from an investment standpoint, you know, Miami,
for example, in some of these markets, you get a
chance to you know host, I mean, we'll have the
World Cup, We'll have the National Championship Game, the Formula
one Race, the Miami Open Tennis tournament, all in the
next you know, in the first five six months, for
(32:11):
six months of twenty twenty six on your campus, on
our campus. And so you know, when you when you
get an opportunity to host, you know we had you know,
the level of celebrity and power and the people that
come to these events. You know, there's there's there's meaningful
business that's conducted in the environments.
Speaker 15 (32:32):
There's a lot of different value levers.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
And I think fundamentally against supplying to man As people
who can afford to purchase these teams get more wealthy,
the evaluation is going to go up. The scarcity is there,
and I think for institutional investors that's part of not
speaking for mic or areas. But I think part of
the calculus has to be the health of the business model.
Speaker 15 (32:53):
I mean, the NFL is the most relevant.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Cultural phenomenon in the United States, as evidenced by viewership
and everything else, and that's going to continue.
Speaker 15 (33:02):
So the evaluation should continue to go up.
Speaker 18 (33:04):
And Mike, you alluded to this and Tom has too,
this notion that you guys are now a global sports investor.
I think it's fair to say, but that's I mean,
you were doing some of it, but now you're doing it.
I would argue at scale as much as anyone, When
did you make that decision and why?
Speaker 7 (33:21):
So it's interesting we at areas.
Speaker 8 (33:24):
We pivoted to that at the beginning of COVID, and
the catalyst was for a lot of leagues, they were
looking at an ownership group that was asset rich, cash
poor in many respects. They were going to be facing
acute liquidity challenges and you had live events with no spectators.
(33:46):
So it became pretty obvious to us that if we
could actually go in as a creative liquidity provider, that
we would be able to do something special. So it
actually started off as an idea that we would effectively
build a bridge through the pandemic to leagues and team owners.
By moving early, we were able to develop some pretty
trusting relationships. I think at the league level, within the
(34:09):
ownership groups, and within the broader ECO system that we
were there not to take advantage, but to really help
people through it. And then, as everybody knows, through the pandemic,
I think we really learned how much we just love
sports and how much we miss them. And so in
the back end of the pandemic, the valuations accelerated and
(34:29):
we find ourselves where we are today. But that head
start that we got by building that trust as a
solution provider, I think went a long way to putting
us where we are now.
Speaker 15 (34:39):
And Jason, think you back to the relevance of the NFL.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
The Hall of Fame game, which is the first preseason
game that's played, that was played this year, and this
is consistent for the past few years, pulled higher television ratings. Now,
keep in mind there's nothing but third fourth string players
that probably aren't going to make the team playing in
that game. That game pulled higher television ratings than the
(35:03):
average NBA playoff game. So you're talking about a preseason
game with no starters playing.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Alex rodrigainst this backstation, Oh good. And the NBA's great properties.
They're great businesses.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
They're they're you know, I'm not saying thing negative about
the NBA. The NBA is a great property, and Alex
made a great investment, and I would be bullish about
his investment. But I think when you just comparatively speaking,
we talk about the relevance of the NFL and the
power of the NFL culture in this country, I think that's.
Speaker 8 (35:30):
Basically that average viewership is five times the next nearest
league in the NFL seventeen to eighteen million per game,
so nothing even comes close.
Speaker 7 (35:38):
And I think you correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 8 (35:40):
Twenty nine of the thirty most watched televised events of
all time were Super Bowls. I think best at only
the moon Land.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
And year to year it's anywhere between ninety two to
ninety six of the top one hundred most watched television
programs or NFL games.
Speaker 18 (35:54):
Right well, and then we spent a lot of time
on college sports earlier, a very good amount of time,
an appropriate amount of time talking about college sports, and clearly.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
The money that's going in the viewership that's there.
Speaker 18 (36:05):
I mean, you essentially have NFL Junior being created at
the college level.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Is that investible?
Speaker 7 (36:12):
Mike, Yeah, absolutely, and we've talked about this.
Speaker 8 (36:16):
We try to approach the whole sports investment business as
understanding the sports ecosystem. So that's what's so unique about
what Tom and his team have is the stadium asset
has now created an ecosystem around the stadium mass that
they get to build other things into. And as Tom
alluded to, you then have the ecosystem of Miami, which
is actually one of the fastest growing, most favorable demographics
(36:40):
in the country. And when you have that level of impact,
you start to see other things come out. So I
think when you start to see development of NIL and
rejriggering of college leagues, all of that starts to become
investable with innovative financial product. And so you know, we're
always looking for those markets as they open up at
(37:00):
Absolutely college sports, state UM assets and al support, media rights.
Speaker 7 (37:05):
Those are all going to become big investments.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
I mean, you're going to have the college football National Championship,
right we are.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Every year we have the Orange we have Orange Bowl,
we have semi or this year we have the National Championship.
Last weekend we had Notre Dame Miami, the Governor of Florida,
the Secretary of State of the United States and a
nameless one of the top five wealthiest people in the
world were all in the suite at.
Speaker 15 (37:26):
The same time.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
It's just it's and the electricity in hard Rock Stadium
for that event, it felt like a national championship game. So,
you know, the relevance of Miami is the market, the
relevance of sort of the investment that Steve's put into
the stadium, the private investment, the fact that you know,
we own the stadium and grounds were able to do
these things. But these events, whether it's college football, international soccer,
(37:50):
Miami Open, tennis, Formula One, we had several you know,
starting last October we had Taylor Swift, We've had this summer,
Morgan Wallen The Week and Coldplay the concert series this
summer has been huge, so you know, it's it just
continues from there.
Speaker 15 (38:07):
The number of events. Maybe we have.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
Forty eight major events this year with two million people
coming through the gates, which both of those are about
twice what they were five years ago.
Speaker 6 (38:16):
That's Bloomberg Original chief correspondent and Power Players executive producer
Jason Kelly has heard on stage at Power Players New
York speaking with Michael Are you Getti, co founder and
CEO at Aries Management Corporation, and Tom Garfinkel, vice chairman,
president and CEO of the Miami Dolphins and hard Rock
(38:37):
Stadium about the future of the NFL. And that does
it for this special edition of The Bloomberg Business of Sports.
I'm Michael Barrn. Thank you for joining us. Tune in
again next week for the latest on the stories moving
big old money in the world of sports, and don't
forget to catch our podcast all your podcast platforms. You're
listening to The Bloomberg Business of Sports Bloomberg Radio around
(38:59):
the world.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is the Business
of Sports.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Sports are the greatest unscripted show owner.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
The next generation of players who really grew up with
tech and believe in tech.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
Your face is your ticket, your face is your wallet,
your face is your access to a club.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
These are such iconic and important buildings for businesses. For fans,
COVID was one of the best things that ever happened
to go.
Speaker 5 (00:29):
The NFL is a bulletproof business.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Raising is unique because there is absolutely no reason why
we can't compete with the guys.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Well, it's pro pickaball real.
Speaker 6 (00:36):
Are people really going to tune into this?
Speaker 5 (00:38):
If you're playing moneyball with a huge bag of money,
you're going to be really.
Speaker 7 (00:42):
Really good.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 6 (00:48):
Welcome to a special edition of The Bloomberg Business of
Sports featuring some of our favorite conversations from Power Players
New York. I'm Michael Barr. Power Players New York is
an annual event held right at Bloomberg World headquarters in
New York that brings together influential voices from the business
of sports. Stick around for a conversation about the future
(01:09):
of the NFL with Michael Arugetti, co founder and CEO
at Ares Management Corporation.
Speaker 8 (01:16):
As we think about just investing across the entire sports ecosystem,
the NFL kind of checks every.
Speaker 7 (01:21):
Box, right.
Speaker 8 (01:22):
I mean, most other leagues that we've invested in, there's
some risk that you have to box relegation or lack
of national media rights, but the NFL really.
Speaker 7 (01:30):
Sits at the top of the top.
Speaker 6 (01:33):
Plus here from Ross b York of Ohio State University
on a flood of new money, rising student athlete power,
and how it's reshaping the collegiate sports landscape. All that
and more is on the way on this special Bloomberg
Power Players, New York edition of The Bloomberg Business of Sports.
Let's start with a look at the w NBA. The
(01:54):
league suffered a bit of a gut punch this week
when it was announced that superstar Caitlin Clark we missed
the rest of the season with a right groin spring,
but overall the league is on an exciting trajectory. Bloomberg
US Sports Business reporter Randa Williams took the stage at
Power Players New York to speak with Terry Carmichael Jackson,
(02:16):
executive director at the WMDPA and two time w NBA
champion and four time Olympic gold medalist Sylvia Fouls. Let's
take it.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
Listen now, both both you and Terry have witnessed women's
basketball and this growth, the popularity of it just surge
over the last couple of years. You were part of
that wave towards the end of your career. Terry, you
saw it as well over the last say five to
six and really a decade long period of time. Terry,
what has that been like from your spot?
Speaker 9 (02:46):
Oh, my goodness, it has been amazing. This is my
tenth season.
Speaker 10 (02:52):
I tell her that all the time. I don't see
how she do a job.
Speaker 11 (02:55):
This is my tenth season in this job, and.
Speaker 9 (03:00):
I think at the end of each season, I kind
of go back to the beginning when I was interviewed
for this role and Swin Cash Tamika Catchings, you know,
they were on the executive committee at that time, and
they asked me, where do you see yourself? Where do
you see this union in five to ten years? And
(03:22):
I remember it like yesterday. I said, you know, we're
gonna value who we are as women's basketball, and we're
going to value the fact that we're different, and we're
not going to like always compare ourselves to the guys.
It's helpful to look over in their space and see
what they're doing and how they're moving, but you know,
know who we are and just value different for exactly.
Speaker 11 (03:41):
What it is.
Speaker 9 (03:42):
It is different and to see that and to still
be in this role and to see that happen, and
to see the women like Sylvia, these legends, you know,
during their career be celebrated and be on these billboards
and truly be household names. And and I just love
(04:02):
how you talked about, you know, the unity.
Speaker 11 (04:04):
We didn't talk.
Speaker 9 (04:04):
About this backstage, y'all when she was talking about the
unity and the power of the players. That is something
that is really something. And so it's just been amazing.
And watch out, y'all, it's going to continue to be amazing.
Speaker 11 (04:19):
I promise. We are in a labor fight.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
Wait wait, we're not there yet.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah, get to the labor talks.
Speaker 5 (04:27):
On the business front, throw I feel like in the
last four years, of course, when the Aces and Liberty
played that broke incredible records, and then last years and
the year and maybe I was twenty twenty three in
the year.
Speaker 11 (04:38):
Before that, as well, they just keep topping them.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
Exactly what's it been like on the business front, how
have the calls changed? I mean towards the end of
your career, this was happening, But what was it like
as maybe the visibility increased over time.
Speaker 10 (04:54):
It's phenomenal.
Speaker 12 (04:55):
Like I say, it's something that we've been fighting for
for years and so to have this platform now and
send all this attention that these young women are getting,
I think is life changing. So hopefully that it could
continue from here and we keep pushing forward.
Speaker 5 (05:09):
Now there are brands jumping to be next to the
league we've s I mean you all were both I
assuming in Indianapolis for uh, for WNBA All Star Weekend.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
There we're not there.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
Yeah, they were treating Indianapolis like it.
Speaker 10 (05:19):
Was Vegas ash they should.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
With that in mind.
Speaker 13 (05:24):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
There there was more branding in Indianapolis than I have
ever seen at the WNBA All Star Weekend. I'll ask you, Sylvia,
if there was a brand that you could collab that
you could have collaborated in during your time playing, or
maybe there's one that you're proud of that you did
collaborate with, UH with, what would it have been? Would
it have been a signature sneaker or what do you
think it would have been?
Speaker 12 (05:45):
For those who know me, know, I don't think of myself,
so I always thinking outside of the box about other people.
So my biggest thing is what can I give back?
And the youth is very important to me, and so
I would love to collab with anybody that's unity based
around youth and taking care.
Speaker 10 (06:02):
Of the kids is something that I'll probably look forward to.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
Beautiful, Beautiful Terry. What's been your favorite WNBA collaboration that
you've seen?
Speaker 9 (06:11):
My favorite WNBPA has been with Loreal. You know, we
had players talking for so long about where's our beauty
brand partnership? Like we're a women's league, like this is
a no brainer. And I'm like, yeah, you're right, let's
work on that. And had a conversation, had a relationship
(06:35):
with an executive VP over at L'Oreal and Lil Majid,
and you know, she called me one day and she said,
how can we help? And I was like, wait, is
this really happening? How like a brand is calling and
saying how can we help? Like I don't have to
pitch you And she's like, no, I know who you
guys are. I know what you're all about. We want
(06:55):
to support, we want to pour into the players, and
we want to do it through a partnership with you
through the union. And I was like, break next speed,
let me come over and you know, and sit down
and talk. And we did just that. So that has
been a very meaningful one. I think that's really put
us on the map and particularly meaningful for our members too,
to see that we were listening to you know, what
(07:17):
they were talking about. And it's not just it's beauty,
it's skincare, it's like all the things. It's about feeling
good inside and out. And I'm really proud of that partnership,
I really am. But there's so many that we do.
I don't want to leave anybody out Farmer's fridge. If
you guys are ever in the airport, you see those
vending machines like it's real, it's good, Like you can
go there, you can trust it, promise you. That's just
(07:39):
another example.
Speaker 5 (07:41):
Now we're on the subject of business, and you are,
I mean, one of the maybe five most important people
in these WNBA CBA negotiations and might be one of
the two most important people. Map out to us what
the players are asking for in this proposal and in
these negotiations.
Speaker 9 (07:59):
Yeah, well, I'm going to go back to your question
to cyl. You said, was she and Indy. I was
in Indy. There was a meeting in Indy.
Speaker 6 (08:07):
I heard about it.
Speaker 14 (08:08):
Yeah, yeah, there's a you know, I always start with
this whole you know, we don't negotiate in the press,
and then I start talking about, you know, what the
players are really after.
Speaker 11 (08:19):
I mean, but when they opted out, when the.
Speaker 9 (08:21):
Players voted to opt out of this twenty twenty CBA,
they said really pretty clearly what was on their minds,
what their priorities were, and it's top one of the
top priorities. What we say, the main thing is, the
main thing is a salary system that is tied to
the business so that these players are paid their value.
Speaker 11 (08:44):
Right now, we're in a system.
Speaker 9 (08:46):
That, if you look at it, it's not tied to
the business, and so it's designed to undervalue them. As
the business grows, they start to fall behind. And we've
got to write that ship. And we've got a moment
right now to do that. And it's not just like
a moment, right We've seen the growth we were talking
about the topping themselves with all the metrics that you
(09:08):
all are watching, right with viewership, with attendance, with Jersey sales,
and on and on and on. They keep topping themselves.
We see what Kathy and her team is doing on
the league side to grow the business. And it's been
twelve teams for forever, right, it has been twelve teams
for forever and blink, and it's going to be eighteen
(09:32):
and maybe on the way to twenty. And this is
no inside knowledge. I'm just saying it just looks and
feels that way, right, And so this is a sustainable
model that because the players opted out of the twenty
fourteen CBA to fix the business model to get that,
you know, on the track for the twenty twenty CBA.
Speaker 11 (09:54):
It's why we are here in.
Speaker 9 (09:56):
Twenty twenty five fighting to make make sure that this
business really loves them back the way they have loved it,
the way they have poured into it. We see it
across in other men's sports.
Speaker 11 (10:10):
We can do that. We can do that in women's sports.
Speaker 9 (10:12):
And when we do that, you know, the women are
gonna win, The players are gonna win, the teams are
gonna win, the league is gonna win.
Speaker 11 (10:22):
Seems like a no brainer to me.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
You mentioned All Star weekend. A couple weeks before All
Star Weekend the league announced those three expansion teams. I
believe it's in twenty twenty eight, twenty twenty nine, and
twenty thirty, a total of seven hundred and fifty million
dollars in expansion fees.
Speaker 11 (10:36):
But say that number again, seven hundred and.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
Fifty million dollars in expansion fees, two hundred and fifty
million each. You know, you times three and you get
seven hundred and fifty. I was told that their first
counter proposal came shortly after that, and there are a
bunch of player comments about it. I think Satu Satoo
Sabai had the most to say, or maybe the most
powerful quote, which was that it was a slap.
Speaker 7 (10:59):
In the face.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
So what was your feeling reading what the league sent you?
Speaker 11 (11:06):
It's not too sadly. First of all, is our co
chair of the CBA committee.
Speaker 9 (11:11):
She's pretty dialed in and she's pretty passionate about about
the work.
Speaker 11 (11:18):
What was my feeling reading the proposal that.
Speaker 9 (11:21):
We had some work to do, that perhaps the league
and the teams didn't fully hear the players when we
opted out and we had our first bargaining session, and
so they were going to have to be more conversations
to ensure that they did fully hear what the player
said and what they meant. I'm clear, I work for them,
(11:43):
you know, I understand the mission, I understand the directive,
and so we're just going to have to sit down
and have more of those conversations. However hard they are,
We'll just continue to do it period.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
Sylvia, you negotiated or were part of negotiations years ago.
I believe that was in twenty twenty. What were your
negotiations like back then?
Speaker 11 (12:05):
Were you part of twenty fourteen?
Speaker 15 (12:07):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (12:08):
Oh, those two what you like that?
Speaker 12 (12:11):
Yes, because it's intense, especially when you don't feel like
you've been heard.
Speaker 10 (12:17):
But like Terry say, you're very passionate.
Speaker 12 (12:19):
About something that you do, and with our job, it
comes with any other job that's physical mentally, taxing, taxing
on your body physically, and so we just want to
be heard, but we also want to be seen as well.
And so those negotiations was like very clears, like this
is what we're standing on. We're going to stand on
all on accord, making sure everybody is on the same page.
So I messed because we be heard across the board.
Speaker 6 (12:41):
That's w NBPA Terry Kerrmichael Jackson and two time w
NBA Champion Sylvia Files on stage at Bloomberg Power Players,
New York speaking with Bloomberg US Sports business reporter Randall Williams.
Up next more from Power Players, New York on this
edition of The Bloomberg Business of Sports. I'm Michael Barr,
(13:03):
and you're listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from
Bloomberg Radio around the World.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 6 (13:17):
This is a special edition of The Bloomberg Business of
Sports featuring some of our favorite conversations from Bloomberg Power
Players New York, presented by Invesco. I'm Michael Barr. Bloomberg
Power Players New York is an annual event we have
right here at Bloomberg World Headquarters in New York, where
we welcome influential voices from the business of sports to
(13:39):
identify the next wave of disruption that could hit the
multi trillion dollars sports industry around the world. Let's take
a look now at the college sports landscape, which has
been turned upside down recently due to a mix of
a flood of new money, rising student athlete power, difference shakeups,
(14:01):
and more. Bloomberg News Higher education finance reporter Janet Lauren
took the stage at Power Players, New York to speak
with Ross York. He is the senior vice president and
Wolf Foundation Eugene Smith Endowed Athletics Director at Ohio State University,
Martin Jarman, the Alice and Nahem Lanier Family Director of
(14:24):
Athletics at UCLA, and Nina King, Vice President and King
Compton Family's Director of Athletics and Adjunct Professor of Business
Administration at Duke University. For a special discussion on what's
next for college sports. Let's listen in.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
So, Ross, your team is the defending national champions. The
Ohio State Texas game was the most watched Week one
CFB game ever. So how is your job different from
when you started?
Speaker 7 (14:56):
Are we done and we just we just shut it down?
Speaker 6 (14:58):
Are we good?
Speaker 13 (15:00):
Championship? Eat number one team? And I guess now we're
ranked number one? So now we have the target on
our back. You know, first of all, thanks for having
us today and talk about college sports. You know, look,
I think you you know, in leadership, I think in
anything you know, you want to celebrate the moments, but
never too high, never too low. So you have to
keep this balanced perspective of the jobs never finished, the
(15:23):
journeys never finished. We have to keep pushing, especially in
this modern era. So you know, and I think a
lot of times we can take the lead of our players,
and our players that were returning off of last year's
national championship team. We started putting up these pictures and
these banners national champions and holding up the trophy and
all that, and they said, hey, can you take some
(15:44):
of that stuff down because we won our own identity,
and so following the lead of our athletes I think
has been a mantra for us to say, look, the
job's never finished. You know, we're we have jobs that
we operate almost like a political campaign, churning, churning, campaigning,
dinners events.
Speaker 7 (16:03):
But we don't have an election day.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
We have game day and there's a scoreboard.
Speaker 13 (16:07):
But as far as what we do in pouring into
young people and building buildings and the nil chase and
the revenue share and the television world, there really is
not a finish line because there's always something next. So
that's how we're approaching it in an Ohio state. We
still have an upside in many ways on the business front.
So we're trying to capitalize on all those things as
(16:28):
it relates to winning that national championship.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
So you brought up an Io.
Speaker 11 (16:32):
Let's get into that right now.
Speaker 7 (16:34):
It can get the hard questions.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
So you guys are literally signing checks for revenue sharing agreements.
Speaker 11 (16:40):
Martin, how much have you paid out so far?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Wow? She goes there for the hard ones.
Speaker 16 (16:49):
Well, before I answer that hard question, thank you for
having us here. And it's an honor to be with you.
Speaker 6 (16:56):
You know, it's a new day.
Speaker 16 (16:57):
July first started the new era where you could share
revenue with student athletes at UCLA. We started August first,
and as of August first, for the month of August,
we shared four point eight million dollars. Wow, out of
our twenty point five million, that's allotted. So a lot
of checks were being signed in August and more to come.
But it's exciting. You know, our student athletes deserve that. UCLA.
(17:21):
We've always been a proponent of that, and so you know,
just how you manage that, how you make sure that
we get We've been preparing for this for a while
with the infrastructure needed to get all the student athletes information.
We use PayPal and the Big ten to make those
payments and do those out, but it's a big undertaking
(17:42):
just to be able to do that and kind of
flip the switch and turn it on.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Wow, Rina, how much do you think these agreements are
going to have a role in retention? Might we see
fewer people going in the transfer portal?
Speaker 11 (17:55):
That's the hope first of all.
Speaker 17 (17:57):
Also, let me echo my call sentiments and thank you
for having us here. And I thought the panel would
be at least four hours for us to be able
to kind of delve into some of these issues. But
you know, there are a lot of moving parts, and
you know, yeah, that's the hope. And for these agreements,
they're structured. Every institution can can decide how to structure
(18:21):
them and so and then even for us between sports
they're structured a little bit differently. The term is different,
and so you know, across several sports that we're revenue
sharing with, it's a lot of moving pieces. And when
I was signing all of those, we finally got a
stamp in my office so that we can get them
done quickly. But you know, we are looking to protect
(18:44):
the university, you know, for these agreements, also to do
what's in the best interest of the student athletes. But
this is a business arrangement now with them, and and
so you know, we we've got plenty of lawyers involved
in writing agreements again to go back to protecting the university.
But I absolutely think this is the right thing to
be doing for these student athletes. I'm not going to
(19:07):
tell you how many checks I've signed and how much
they've totaled up to up to this point, but we
are trying to be competitive in this space.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
So let me share some numbers. Between June and August,
the amount of money distributed has been eighty million dollars.
It's almost a million dollars a day and about one
hundred deals a day.
Speaker 11 (19:26):
What do you think of this?
Speaker 13 (19:28):
Ross is that the latest statistics came out in the
College Sports Commission.
Speaker 7 (19:32):
They just released that.
Speaker 13 (19:33):
So I think it's great that, you know, we've been
asking for some transparency right around this. You know, look,
I think it's I think it's awesome opportunities for our athletes.
You know, what do we say about college, You go there,
receive an education, prepare yourself.
Speaker 7 (19:47):
For the next level. Whatever that is.
Speaker 13 (19:50):
Maybe you can go pro excuse me, your in your sport,
I might need that emergency water. We were joking about that.
Now it got me, you know, so I think it's
an awesome opportunity to basically have these athletes have the
opportunities that other students have always had, but in our
world we restricted it. You can't be in a video game,
you can't use YouTube channel, you can't monetize social media.
(20:14):
You can't, you can't, you can't. And now it's like,
let's go full throttle. And so we're seeing these big
numbers and some of it may be shocking, but in
a lot of ways, it's a catch up phase in
some ways because our athletes have been restricted for so long.
So I think all of us that are setting here,
I think, as we try to be competitive in the
(20:35):
new world again, how do we provide opportunities for third party?
In IL we're going to have the revshare cap from
the university. That's going to be standard, but what does
the third party roadmap look like? That's probably the next
sort of arms race and all of this, and again
it's all about what can the athlete be provided in
(20:55):
this moment in time and so we're all pushing, you know,
towards that new area.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
So with all this revenue sharing a lot going to football, basketball,
that leaves other sports maybe not with as much money.
So let's talk about Olympic sports. Martin Los Angeles is
hosting the Olympics in twenty twenty. The Olympic Village is
going to be on your campus. Do you know how
many medals you see LA athletes have won almost three hundred,
(21:23):
two hundred and eighty four.
Speaker 10 (21:24):
Yes, yeh.
Speaker 11 (21:26):
That's a lot of change.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
And we're already starting to see schools cut teams diving
at Virginia swimming and diving at CalPoly. What is the
risk to the United States? Are we going to have
fewer medals after this big shakeup?
Speaker 16 (21:41):
So first let me say at UCLA, we have a
proud tradition with our Olympic sports. You know, since nineteen
twenty eight, we've had four hundred and thirty six bruins
make six hundred and sixty one Olympic teams. So that's
I mean, we're we're if we're not the highest as
we're in the top two in the country as far
(22:03):
as producing Olympians. We have a phrase at UCLA Athletics
champions made here. It's Olympians made here too, So we
take our investment in our Olympic sports very seriously. That said,
you know, the financial model has changed, the realities have changed,
and we're extremely excited to be hosting LA twenty eight
and Olympics in twenty eight and having them on campus
(22:24):
in Westwood, But there is a concern after LA twenty
eight what programs around the country are going to.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Do with their Olympic sports. You know, we're going to
keep investing.
Speaker 16 (22:35):
We think it's very important to continue to produce Olympians
champions and that's important, but at the same time, the
financial realities are changing, and so you know, what we're
talking about more is we need to really study, in
my opinion, what other countries do as far as how
they fund Olympic sports, and take those learnings from other
(22:58):
countries and apply it to what we do here in
the United States. Because I think we're going to be
very strong LA twenty eight. I think the whole you know,
the whole country is going to get behind that. And
Casey Washerman has done an excellent job. He's a bruin
with all the planning, and I think we're going to
perform well, but there is a concern after LA twenty eight.
What does that mean? You know, is there going to
(23:19):
be a cliff with Olympic sports. I don't see that
obviously at UCLA, but I do worry about as a
whole our Olympic movement if we don't figure out a
better way to fund Olympic.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Sports, because that's the issue.
Speaker 16 (23:32):
The issue is the funding model for Olympic sports, and
I think that's got to adjust.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
So let's talk about the funding model. We keep hearing
the idea of private equity. Is it coming for college sports?
How would this even work?
Speaker 11 (23:46):
Nina? Can we call it?
Speaker 10 (23:47):
David rubinsteinback?
Speaker 17 (23:48):
I mean, I think he's the one that we need
to be asking that question. You know, yes, the financial
model in college athletics is stressed. The way that we
are operating as a business model. I mean you also
opened our books to you you would think it's a
joke the way that we are operating. And so we
(24:09):
need to figure out how to build something more sustainable
so we can support broad based programming. You know, a
student athlete opportunities to come to our campuses, not just
to compete in sports, but but to you know, receive
a my case of duke degree. And so, you know what,
we are exploring all kinds of revenue models, and that
(24:32):
certainly includes private equity in the traditional sense. I'm not
convinced that it would work, but we're talking to a
lot of folks to kind of figure out.
Speaker 11 (24:40):
Is are there hybrid models?
Speaker 17 (24:42):
Are there unique ways that we could do something to
infuse capital cash into our athletics departments and into our universities.
I mean, I think there are a lot of revenue
opportunities on campus as well, and so how do we
kind of create that synergy with campus to to continue
to build revenue. We are heavily reliant on philanthropy, and
(25:05):
you know, but if we could have been raising an
extra twenty point five million dollars a year, we would
have been And so I don't think, you know, straight
philanthropy is the answer. And so, like I said, we
are exploring everything, and I think private equity is on
the table for sure.
Speaker 6 (25:20):
That's Bloomberg News Higher education finance reporter Janet Lauren in
a panel discussion with Ross B. York of Ohio State University,
Martin Jermond of UCLA, and Nina King of Dunk University
from Bloomberg Power Players, New York. Up next, more from
Power Players with a look at what's next in the NFL.
(25:43):
Michael Barr and you're listening to a special edition of
the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberger Radio around the world.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 6 (26:06):
Thanks for joining us for a special edition of The
Bloomberg Business of Sports as we listened to some of
our favorite conversations heard live at the Bloomberg Power Players
New York. I'm Michael Barr. It's opening weekend for the NFL,
and one of our key conversations at Power Players New
York was on what's next for the league. Bloomberg Original's
(26:27):
chief correspondent and Power Players executive producer Jason Kelly was
joined on stage by Michael Erughetti, co founder and CEO
at Aries Management Corporation, and Tom Garfinkel, Vice Chairman, president
and CEO of the Miami Dolphins and hard Rock Stadium
to talk about where the big money in the NFL
(26:50):
is going next.
Speaker 18 (26:51):
You guys made some big headlines last year. Aries as
an investor into the Miami Dolphins under these new rules
that the NFL adopted to bring institutional capital, and my
main question for you, as the recipient of such an investment, Tom,
is how's it going? How does it you know, how
does private equity sort of change?
Speaker 10 (27:10):
And how am I doing now?
Speaker 15 (27:16):
It's it's fantastic.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
I mean, we couldn't have better partners, I think, you know,
obviously the NFL was so diligent in the process of
how private equity came into the sport and who was
selected to come in, and there are reasons for coming in,
and we couldn't have a better partner. And Arias I'm
not just saying that because Mike's sitting sitting here, but uh,
the whole team from Mary's has been strategic partners.
Speaker 15 (27:38):
You know, long term.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
They've got a long term view on things and uh,
and they're a lot of fun to be with.
Speaker 15 (27:43):
So you know, it's kind of the best of all worlds.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
So why do it? Why go in? Well? What what's
so great about the NFL? Well, I said, somewhat sarcastically,
but you know.
Speaker 8 (27:55):
Football is obviously the most watched sport, huge scarcity value,
ever increasing media rights value. The business model of the
NFL is probably one of the most durable in all
of sports, and so as we think about just investing
(28:15):
across the entire sports ecosystem, the NFL kind of checks
every box, right. I mean, most other leagues that we've
invested in, there's some risk that you have to box
relegation or lack of you know, national media rights, but
the NFL really sits at the top of the top.
Speaker 7 (28:34):
You know.
Speaker 8 (28:35):
There was a long process, as Tom hinted at, just
to get authorized.
Speaker 7 (28:39):
To invest in the league.
Speaker 8 (28:43):
We are incredibly proud and humbled by the fact that
we were selected in a very small handful of people
to do it. And I think a lot of that
is just the experience that we brought to the table,
but also the respect for just how important is to
be a good, long term oriented partner.
Speaker 7 (29:00):
The Dolphins were our first I don't know if it'll
be our only, but.
Speaker 8 (29:05):
In NFL, the Dolphins are particularly unique as well, given
the multitude of assets, stadium, F one, tennis, all the
things that's surrounded.
Speaker 7 (29:14):
So we thought that it was a really good place
to start.
Speaker 18 (29:16):
And I want to talk more about that in a second,
but one thing that does strike me. Tom and the
three of us have talked about this individually over the
past few months. Is this idea that you know, you
guys did your deal, the Bills did their deal with Arctos.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
There have been a couple other minority stake sales.
Speaker 18 (29:34):
Including one reporter by Bloomberg with the Koch family coming
into the New York Giants.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Tom, Are you surprised there hasn't been more?
Speaker 17 (29:43):
No?
Speaker 3 (29:43):
I think again, I think the NFL. I think ownership
of these teams are being very deliberate, very patient in
their selection. And given the valuation of the deal that
you announced, Mike's already got a great.
Speaker 18 (29:59):
Deal with us, reportedly a ten billion dollar valuation.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
I think I love that. I think the fact that
some of the owners are waiting, I think they're expecting
values to continue to rise, and I think they're right.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
What do you think about valuations?
Speaker 18 (30:15):
I mean, having done the underwriting here and done all
this diligence, where valuations right now?
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Where they go?
Speaker 7 (30:20):
When the first.
Speaker 8 (30:23):
Investment came into the league at a five and a
half billion dollar evaluation, I think people were shocked. The
median value in the NFL now is about seven point
one billion, and with every successive investment you're seeing those
values go up.
Speaker 7 (30:37):
Some of that is the presence of institutional equity.
Speaker 8 (30:39):
So if you just look at sports team valuations in general,
you'll see an inflection. NBA saw it, NHL saw it
when institutional capital comes in because you're dealing with asset
scarcity and when you start to open up new channels
for investment, valuations will naturally go up.
Speaker 7 (30:57):
So I think you're beginning.
Speaker 8 (30:59):
To see that scar city value thesis play out. And
then the media rights, you know, continue to go up.
And so sports franchises have compounded a ten to fifteen
percent per year for the last fifteen years, and then
they get these periodic inflections whenever you up to her
the media rights.
Speaker 7 (31:16):
But I think will continue to go up.
Speaker 18 (31:18):
And Tom, do you agree, Like, how fast will they
go up? I mean, how soon are we going to
see a twenty billion dollar team? I mean, I know
it's hard to project, but I.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Think that's going to happen sooner than people expect. Look,
I think I look at it maybe more simplistically. I
just think that it's fundamentally supply and demand. You've got
a lot of demand for these assets. They don't go
for sale. There's a scarcity supply of them. The NFL
is a fantastic business model. It's also a group of
(31:49):
owners that sort of a club some people want to
be in. But from an investment standpoint, you know, Miami,
for example, in some of these markets, you get a
chance to you know host, I mean, we'll have the
World Cup, We'll have the National Championship Game, the Formula
one Race, the Miami Open Tennis tournament, all in the
next you know, in the first five six months, for
(32:11):
six months of twenty twenty six on your campus, on
our campus. And so you know, when you when you
get an opportunity to host, you know we had you know,
the level of celebrity and power and the people that
come to these events. You know, there's there's there's meaningful
business that's conducted in the environments.
Speaker 15 (32:32):
There's a lot of different value levers.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
And I think fundamentally against supplying to man As people
who can afford to purchase these teams get more wealthy,
the evaluation is going to go up. The scarcity is there,
and I think for institutional investors that's part of not
speaking for mic or areas. But I think part of
the calculus has to be the health of the business model.
Speaker 15 (32:53):
I mean, the NFL is the most relevant.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Cultural phenomenon in the United States, as evidenced by viewership
and everything else, and that's going to continue.
Speaker 15 (33:02):
So the evaluation should continue to go up.
Speaker 18 (33:04):
And Mike, you alluded to this and Tom has too,
this notion that you guys are now a global sports investor.
I think it's fair to say, but that's I mean,
you were doing some of it, but now you're doing it.
I would argue at scale as much as anyone, When
did you make that decision and why?
Speaker 7 (33:21):
So it's interesting we at areas.
Speaker 8 (33:24):
We pivoted to that at the beginning of COVID, and
the catalyst was for a lot of leagues, they were
looking at an ownership group that was asset rich, cash
poor in many respects. They were going to be facing
acute liquidity challenges and you had live events with no spectators.
(33:46):
So it became pretty obvious to us that if we
could actually go in as a creative liquidity provider, that
we would be able to do something special. So it
actually started off as an idea that we would effectively
build a bridge through the pandemic to leagues and team owners.
By moving early, we were able to develop some pretty
trusting relationships. I think at the league level, within the
(34:09):
ownership groups, and within the broader ECO system that we
were there not to take advantage, but to really help
people through it. And then, as everybody knows, through the pandemic,
I think we really learned how much we just love
sports and how much we miss them. And so in
the back end of the pandemic, the valuations accelerated and
(34:29):
we find ourselves where we are today. But that head
start that we got by building that trust as a
solution provider, I think went a long way to putting
us where we are now.
Speaker 15 (34:39):
And Jason, think you back to the relevance of the NFL.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
The Hall of Fame game, which is the first preseason
game that's played, that was played this year, and this
is consistent for the past few years, pulled higher television ratings. Now,
keep in mind there's nothing but third fourth string players
that probably aren't going to make the team playing in
that game. That game pulled higher television ratings than the
(35:03):
average NBA playoff game. So you're talking about a preseason
game with no starters playing.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Alex rodrigainst this backstation, Oh good. And the NBA's great properties.
They're great businesses.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
They're they're you know, I'm not saying thing negative about
the NBA. The NBA is a great property, and Alex
made a great investment, and I would be bullish about
his investment. But I think when you just comparatively speaking,
we talk about the relevance of the NFL and the
power of the NFL culture in this country, I think that's.
Speaker 8 (35:30):
Basically that average viewership is five times the next nearest
league in the NFL seventeen to eighteen million per game,
so nothing even comes close.
Speaker 7 (35:38):
And I think you correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 8 (35:40):
Twenty nine of the thirty most watched televised events of
all time were Super Bowls. I think best at only
the moon Land.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
And year to year it's anywhere between ninety two to
ninety six of the top one hundred most watched television
programs or NFL games.
Speaker 18 (35:54):
Right well, and then we spent a lot of time
on college sports earlier, a very good amount of time,
an appropriate amount of time talking about college sports, and clearly.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
The money that's going in the viewership that's there.
Speaker 18 (36:05):
I mean, you essentially have NFL Junior being created at
the college level.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Is that investible?
Speaker 7 (36:12):
Mike, Yeah, absolutely, and we've talked about this.
Speaker 8 (36:16):
We try to approach the whole sports investment business as
understanding the sports ecosystem. So that's what's so unique about
what Tom and his team have is the stadium asset
has now created an ecosystem around the stadium mass that
they get to build other things into. And as Tom
alluded to, you then have the ecosystem of Miami, which
is actually one of the fastest growing, most favorable demographics
(36:40):
in the country. And when you have that level of impact,
you start to see other things come out. So I
think when you start to see development of NIL and
rejriggering of college leagues, all of that starts to become
investable with innovative financial product. And so you know, we're
always looking for those markets as they open up at
(37:00):
Absolutely college sports, state UM assets and al support, media rights.
Speaker 7 (37:05):
Those are all going to become big investments.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
I mean, you're going to have the college football National Championship,
right we are.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Every year we have the Orange we have Orange Bowl,
we have semi or this year we have the National Championship.
Last weekend we had Notre Dame Miami, the Governor of Florida,
the Secretary of State of the United States and a
nameless one of the top five wealthiest people in the
world were all in the suite at.
Speaker 15 (37:26):
The same time.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
It's just it's and the electricity in hard Rock Stadium
for that event, it felt like a national championship game. So,
you know, the relevance of Miami is the market, the
relevance of sort of the investment that Steve's put into
the stadium, the private investment, the fact that you know,
we own the stadium and grounds were able to do
these things. But these events, whether it's college football, international soccer,
(37:50):
Miami Open, tennis, Formula One, we had several you know,
starting last October we had Taylor Swift, We've had this summer,
Morgan Wallen The Week and Coldplay the concert series this
summer has been huge, so you know, it's it just
continues from there.
Speaker 15 (38:07):
The number of events. Maybe we have.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
Forty eight major events this year with two million people
coming through the gates, which both of those are about
twice what they were five years ago.
Speaker 6 (38:16):
That's Bloomberg Original chief correspondent and Power Players executive producer
Jason Kelly has heard on stage at Power Players New
York speaking with Michael Are you Getti, co founder and
CEO at Aries Management Corporation, and Tom Garfinkel, vice chairman,
president and CEO of the Miami Dolphins and hard Rock
(38:37):
Stadium about the future of the NFL. And that does
it for this special edition of The Bloomberg Business of Sports.
I'm Michael Barrn. Thank you for joining us. Tune in
again next week for the latest on the stories moving
big old money in the world of sports, and don't
forget to catch our podcast all your podcast platforms. You're
listening to The Bloomberg Business of Sports Bloomberg Radio around
(38:59):
the world.
Popular Podcasts
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.