December 3, 2024 • 21 mins
Watch Carol and Tim LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF.
Sarah Rhoads, VP Global Operations at Amazon, discusses using AI and robotics for fulfillment centers and delivery this holiday season.
Hosts: Carol Massar and Tim Stenovec. Producer: Paul Brennan.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim
Stenebek on Bloomberg Radio taking a look at chairs about TSMC.
They finished the day higher. Other Taiwanese tech supply chain
companies rose today because of some news in the world
of robotics. Carol local media reported that in Vidia is
looking for local suppliers for humanoid robots. Humanoid robots, you
(00:30):
know what these things are? Yeah, I M no, I'm not.
Their robots doesn't look like humans. Tesla's got optimists totally
Supposedly Figure AI is working on him too.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I feel like everybody is. And they talk about, you know,
how it can really help, whether it's in healthcare, but
also in terms of working in I think warehouses and
so on and so forth. There's a lot of things
that we think that they can applied to. And Sarah
Rhodes definitely watches this space very closely. She's vice president
of Global Operations at Amazon, which just includes all the robotics,
AI and general innovation happening when it comes to fulfillment
(01:03):
centers and delivery at Amazon's got a big job. She
joins us here in Opplelnberg Interactive Brokers Studio. Welcome, Welcome,
so glad to have you here.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
How are you? Thank you for having me. It's a
big day for us, So it's an exciting time for
us at Amazon.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
I'm going to let Tim do the first question because
he's got a good one.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Is it harder to be a VP at Amazon or
fly fighter jets?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Well, they're different, but both can be exciting and enjoyable
and positively challenging at the same time.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
So let's talk about your path a little bit. We're
going to get to cyber Monday. We got a nice
chunk of time with you, but you have a really
cool path. Tell us your story.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Sure, Well, I've been with Amazon approaching fourteen years. Started
out as an operations manager in Lexington, Kentucky in our
fulfillment operations. Spent time in Kentucky, Texas, spent three years
in the UK, which was an amazing experience. Returned to
the US in twenty seventeen, and led a team that
built out our hair hal network. So we have a
fleet of Boeing seven six seven seven three sevens. You
(01:57):
really do have your own airlines? Well, I know that's
something like that and a lot of them in Kentucky
around and we have our main air hub at the
Cincinnati Northern Kentucky Airport. They process over thirty flights a day,
hundreds of thousands of packages daily.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I didn't hear any stories about fighter jets.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I'll get you. I'll get you for sure. Yeah. So
spent six years building out the airhol network in the US, Europe,
and India, and then a year and a half ago
I took on the leadership of our global workplace health
and safety teams. So we have a workforce today of
over in laian employees globally across six continents. Prior to Amazon, yes,
I was a Navy F eighteen Super Hornet fighter pilot.
So if you've seen the movie Top Gun, Maverick the
(02:35):
jet and the main part of that movie, that's what
I had the privilege of flying. Definitely a childhood dream.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Do you still fly now?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Not currently. I do have a commercial pilot's license, but
Amazon keeps me busy on a day to day basis.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
What do you find a lot of your colleagues from
the Armed services are doing now? Who were pilots then?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Many fly for the airlines, many went into business. I
have several fellow aviators that are is this now as well,
and many have joined companies like Amazon. In fact, Amazon's
very veteran friendly. We've hired over forty thousand veterans over
the last several years. So it tracks people that are
accustomed to working with large teams of people and familiar
(03:16):
with operational type of environments.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Well, I was going to ask you, Sarah, like, what
about that experience that you just has, I don't know,
helped you tremendously in the job that you do at Amazon,
And you've done multiple jobs and made your way through,
So give us an idea of like how that carried over.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah, I actually get that question quite a bit, and
I know it's great because it is something that people
are curious about because it doesn't necessarily seem like a
common path.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
But I think about that fighter jet, like, yes, this coordination,
but a lot is what.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
You do on your own, right. It is a lot
of decision making, for sure, but it also takes a team.
You know. Jet pilot is merely an extension of the
team that helps ensure that jet is up and ready
to go. The folks on the flight deck of an
aircraft carrier, the folks that ensure that that aircraft carrier
runs safely. You know, so it is definitely a team effort,
and so taking a lot of that teamwork in that
(04:03):
team environment into the operational workspace is one thing. You know.
I think decision making a bias for action, being proactive
about things, looking ahead. These are some of the traits
I think that translate pretty well. And yeah, I think
that it's a combination of thinking big and also diving deep.
Over any given day, we are going to move on,
I promise, Yeah, it's okay.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
We have plenty of times.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Well, we just because your.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Backgrounds are like pretty fascinating tense moments that you had flying.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yes, landing on a moving ship at night in bad
weather and you know, landing at one hundred and thirty
five knots and going to zero in less than two seconds,
and you know, we call it trapping a board an
aircraft carrier. That that's just a lot hot, right, yes, yes, carrier. Yes,
And so it takes a lot of training and concentration
and precision to do that well and do that safely.
(04:54):
So so what sproves to you?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
They're probably like, yeah, I got this.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Well, it does help to put things into context. Yeah, exactly,
all right, a little more on flying.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
I don't know, no, I don't know, no, no, no, sorry,
I can talk about flying all day.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
So yeah, so good.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, but you know it is.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
But it is actually interesting though, what you've done at
Amazon in terms of building out that logistics network. It
like used to be a unique thing to sort of,
you know, get to an airport and see a prime airy. Yeahan,
but what a little over a decade ago the team
over at Amazon started building out its own fleet. I
think you worked with Atlas Air Is that right?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
That was one of our carriers.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yes, And now what's the relationship now is it? Does
Amazon own its own planes? Does it contract out its planes?
How does that work?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Well, we have a combination of we own some aircraft
and we lease out other aircraft, but they're all operated
on our behalf by air carriers. So the pilots aren't
actually Amazon employees, but they fly our branded aircraft. But
going back to your point about you know, seeing a
primary aircraft is kind of a unique thing. I think
back to when I joined Amazon at twenty eleven, our
operations basically ended at the dock door of our fulfillment centers,
(06:00):
and so over time, especially in twenty thirteen, we recognize
in order to keep up with our own growth, we
really had to start build building out our mile last
mile transportation network. So it wasn't long after twenty thirteen
that you started seeing branded trailers out on our interstates,
you started seeing branded final mile delivery vehicles out on
our roads. We built out sort centers, delivery stations, and
(06:22):
you started seeing branded aircraft out there at various airports
throughout the country, including JFK here as well, not too
far from us.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
So does that just continue in terms of the build out,
Like I'm curious, what's the next iteration or next stage
of that.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Well, we worked to also make for an efficient operation
as well. So I think about something that we as
a network have done differently this year as we had
versus years past, and we've worked to regionalize our network.
And I'm talking holistically, not specific to air but if
I think about if customers here in New York City
(06:55):
and places in order over seventy six percent of customer
orders or fiel fulfilled within region, which means within a
couple hundred miles of each other, and what that allows for,
is it means fewer touches, which means less on transportation costs.
We work to keep those prizes low for our customers.
And how we've done that is basically, we're just more
sophisticated with the placement of our most common and most
(07:17):
popular products. So we're a bit smarter in how we
place that that product.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Right Like, if I'm ordering diapers on Amazon, which I
do all the time, it turns out that they're being
shipped oftentimes from Staten Island rather than from a few
years ago, they would actually be showed.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
They could have been Kentucky, they could have been sent.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
From anywhere Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
We're working hard to make sure that we're getting them
closer to our customers.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
So building out that kind of localized distribution network makes
complete sense, right in terms of time, I'm assuming money
saved and access right like, it just makes sense.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yes, like shorter transportation distances, so that reduces the cost
or reduces the number of touches that need to be
placed on a package to process. And of course we
still have some nique items, so not every item is
located near every customer. So that's why we still have
an air air network to ensure that two day delivery,
especially if there's something very unique, maybe located in California,
and we want to get it to you within two
(08:12):
days here in New York.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
I know we've ten, We're gonna have another chunk of time.
Are people opening up and saying, yeah, I'm okay with
the two day delivery. It's not like I have to
have it this afternoon anymore. Are you seeing increasingly people
do that? Like I know in my household, we now
are maybe starting a bucket and maybe letting the week
go or even a couple of weeks before we kind
of hit the buy button and so on and so forth.
(08:34):
It's not like everybody's like, I gotta have this now.
Everybody ten multiple.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Orders unless it's unless it's.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Which happens, which you gotta do? Are you running around
the corner and pick them by? But are you thirty
seconds and then we'll come back and talk more. Are
you increasingly seeing people comfortable with like waiting?
Speaker 1 (08:47):
It is such a personal preference, and that's why when
a customer checks out, they have multiple options. You probably
noticed that way. Yeah, So if you would like it
next day, and that's an option, get it next day.
Sometimes you'll see order within the next two hours and
you'll get up by four pm this afternoon. Sometimes it
might be a two day delivery, or for folks that
do want to consolidate their orders, they can specify the
(09:09):
day of delivery and we work to consolidate into one shipment, which.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Is a good thing for the environment.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Everybody just gonna.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Say, let's get right back to Sarah Rhodes. She's vice
president of Global Operations at Amazon. Yes, it includes all
of robotics, AI and general innovation happening when it comes
to fulfillment centers and delivery at Amazon. We're going to
talk about Cyber Monday in just a minute. We have
a lot of time with you, so I want to
talk a little bit about the next stage of innovation
and how you're thinking about delivery, because you talked about
just this incredible build up that's happened over the past
(09:35):
twenty years at Amazon, when it comes to aviation, when
it comes to last mile, when it comes to your
own brand. I mean, we see we have rivians all
over our neighborhoods delivering Amazon packages in addition to the
Dodge rams, but it seems like more rivians. Now, what's
the next area of innovation, what makes it more efficient?
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Oh well, actually, speaking of Rivian, we just announced last
week we have over twenty thousand electric Rivian vehicles on
the road. When we think about sustainability and the efforts
that we're leaning into there, we're continued to invest and
lean in on the electric vehicle technology. So if I
think about innovation, to answer your question specifically, I think
about the innovation that we're doing on behalf of our
(10:14):
customers and to also help our customers with their shopping experience.
So we have a new AI power tool called Rufus
on our storefront and so people can use it to
maybe get more information about a certain product, or maybe
they need some help with some sizing, or maybe like me,
I need some gift ideas for my nephew, whatever the
case may be, they can use that tool to help
(10:36):
them out. And so that's really exciting to lean into
that and there's more to come in that space. And
we're also leaning in on AI within our operations as well.
So we have a tool, for example, that our employees
can use called Dragonfly, and from the palm of our employees' hands,
they can enter any kind of safety suggestion, operational suggestion
(10:59):
and it goes directly to their manager for action. And
that's just one of many tools in the toolkit that
our employees can use. Are they using it? Oh? Yes,
And it's awesome and the amount of feedback that we
get and the ideas that are generated. And the really
cool thing is one suggestion from an employee may not
just be for that particular site, but it could impact
(11:19):
operations across the network. So we're seeing some really great
ideas coming from our frontline workforce, which is which is
awesome and it's a great tool that is one of many,
Like I mentioned the toolkit for us to maintain that
direct dialogue with our teams.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Where else do you think of AI?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Like?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I do feel like we're scratching the surface and just
beginning to play around with it, either on.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
A corporate or personal level.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Right, But it's it's just I think we're all trying
to figure out how do you think about? Okay, this
is how AI is going to change. I mean, you
guys are such a massive world globally, Like, how do
you think about all? Right, I see AI doing this
for us at Amazon someday.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Well, we have a bit of a glimpse into the
future of AI, automation and robotics with the site that
we just launched in Streepoint Shreeport, Louisiana. We call it
Shive one for short, and I was just down there
a couple of weeks ago, and it is the most
automated site we have anywhere in the world. We've incorporated robotics,
(12:18):
AI automation. We as Amazon, have been using AI and
machine learning for several years actually, but it's now really
kind of coming all together. And so when I think
about the site in Shreport that we launched, we now
have autonomous robotic drives that move carts full of packages
from one point to Another's.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
That different from Akiva robot like because you guys have
been doing.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
This for you. Yeah, the Kiva robots, the traditional robotic
drives that we use, they run off of basically a grid,
So think of they are basically are guided by technology
that uses what's called fiducials. So think of it like
a two D barcode on the floor and it's going
from one point to another. Whereas Proteus is autonomous, it
(13:03):
doesn't rely on a grid. It knows it needs to
go from one station all the way to a doctor
without any type of grid, but there's a lot of
safety features involved, so it goes yes. So when it
senses a person, it'll make some noise. It has a
looks like a smiley face, and so it looks like
it can kind of see the person and it smiles
(13:24):
and helps ensure that you know, it stops and yields
to people. And we actually use similar technology on our
traditional robotics floors, our texts that help to maintain the
robotic drives. They actually have a vest that they put
on when they go out onto the robotic floor and
it stops all robotic drives within six feet. So it's
(13:44):
pretty cool watching that because it looks like the person
has a superpower stopping those robots, which is which is
a huge safety a great safety feature that is definitely
you know, necessary to help ensure that we're keeping that
area safe.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
What about when it comes to robotics and automation in
the picking process, where you still have people actually you know,
going and fulfilling those orders putting them in boxes.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Right, So we've incorporated robotic arms into some of our
processes as well. So if we think of some of
the repetitive motion we're working to engineer that out because
the repetitive motion can lead to ergonomic injuries, which is
one of it is the most common injury type across
the industry, So not just at Amazon, but think of
warehousing and logistics in general. So if we can engineer
(14:30):
that out, we're doing that. However, the site and Shreeport,
we still employed twenty five hundred employees, but thirty percent
of those jobs are more technical than the jobs that
we've had traditionally, meaning what so think of You know,
we need folks to maintain our robotics and automation, so
it takes some technical certifications in order to do that,
(14:52):
and our teams can gain those certifications through a program
called Career Choice at Amazon and so at no cost
work employees. So it's a great benefit that's available.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
The question that has to be asked when if we're
talking about AI and robotics kind of merging together. We
were out on the West Coast at an investment event
and I was involved in a panel that was about AI,
and the question that everybody says was a, I going
to take my job, So help me understand. There's got
to be efficiencies when you're dealing with robotics and so
on and so forth. But what is the thinking about
(15:26):
will it take some jobs?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Will it create some jobs?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Give us your insight on that.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
We call it a collaborative environment, and there's a balance
for sure. But again, when I go back to when
I started in twenty eleven, we didn't have robotic drives
or robots in general across our network, and we had
fifty thousand employees total across the globe. Fast forward to
twenty twenty four and we have over a million employees
across the globe, and we've incorporated robotics in our sites
(15:55):
across the US and in other countries including Europe. I
was just in Japan a few weeks ago. We use
robotics in Japan, and we're I look at this holiday season,
we're hiring two hundred and fifty thousand employees. So we
have to said the same as last year. It's on
park with what we hire too as we go into
the holiday season, and we continue that through throughout the year.
(16:16):
And so there are plenty of jobs available to include
more technical jobs for folks that are interested in that
more technical part of the work experience.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Do you think, given technological upgrades that we've seen in
recent years, we've sort of peaked when it comes to
humans in fulfillment center jobs. Like you know, if we
think about it from an efficiency perspective, you don't need
as many people now, and even next year, you'll need
fewer and fewer people. Not that they're taking their jobs
(16:44):
by any means, but efficiency.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
When I think of efficiencies, I actually think more of
our logistics network as a whole. So we talked earlier
about regionalization. That's really where we're seeing the efficiencies of
removing additional touches. That doesn't mean removing people, it just
removes some of the inefficiencies that we have in our network.
And we're continued to still grow. We're launching buildings, new
(17:07):
operations just about every month, multiple per month in some cases.
In fact, this year, we just launched our first Amazon
operation in Hawaii and it complements the air operation that
we have there as well, So we have an Amazon
delivery station outside of Honolu, which is pretty exciting.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Any update on drones, it's been more than ten years
since Jeff Bezos was on sixty minutes Sunday after Thanksgiving
Monday before Cyber Monday. I remember covering that. It was
great marketing, by the way, but still I haven't never
had anything delivered with a drone.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah, we're continuing to invest in that program, and I
am excited to say that we are actually operating drones
for customer fulfillment outside of Phoenix Tallis in Arizona.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
To be Is it scalable?
Speaker 1 (17:50):
I think over time it will be. You know, there's
obviously a lot of regulations.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
So Stam's going to get his diapers in Brooklyn High
a drone from Amazon.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
It may take some time, but I'm optimistic.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Actually, my daughter's diapers, you were going to go there.
I take it back.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
I take it back.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
It's your daughter's diapers now. But I do wonder, like Ken,
is it scalable in a city that's so dense.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, we're continuing to uh iterate on the drone design itself.
It's all design in house. We're working with the regulators,
of course, because drone delivery in general is a relatively
new space and so there's been a lot of innovation,
invention and iteration over the last several years. But it's
(18:37):
exciting and I'm excited about it.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Okay, Cyber Monday, we promised we promised. How are things
looking so far?
Speaker 1 (18:44):
They're they're looking strong. We had a record breaking Black Friday.
Of course, Cyber Monday isn't over yet. In fact, deals
are still dropping. But I was just at a fulfillment
center in New Jersey this morning and uh, despite the
amount of volume, they're processing hundreds of the packages at
one site. It's very calm organized. We spend the entire
year preparing for this this season, and people, it's really
(19:08):
fun for the teams as well. I personally have experienced
our holiday season in fulfillment centers. So it's been a
great day and overall a great weekend for the for
the teams, and more so for our customers.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
When is it the most stressfulst two weeks before one
week before Christmas?
Speaker 1 (19:22):
When does it just get?
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Like when I get those start getting all those emails
like if you want to buy it by now or
you want to buy now, Like, when does it get
Is it the toughest point for you?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
I want, I want to equate it with stressful because
it's always a controlled operation and the safe operation. I
think it's really more so if if folks are like
me who have a tendency to procrastinate to the last minute.
It's just hard to purchase maybe those those last minute gifts.
You know, there does come a point where there's a
(19:51):
cut off period for the Christmas delivery, So it's really
just keeping an eye on those those cut off periods.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
I got to ask you, Sarah, I I think Tim
and I both think about this. You because your VP
of Global Operations and you've talked about kind of just
everything around the world, how would you describe the global
economy right now?
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Well, what I what I can speak to and what
I can say is what we are seeing in terms
of trends is that our customers and I would use
that broadly, are looking to save money, they're looking for
a bast selection, and they're looking for fast deliveries. And
so we see that across the US, across the globe,
and because we focus on our customer, that's what we
(20:30):
continue to do and ensure that the best experience for
our Amazon customers.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Do you also handle grocery delivery and whole foods and stuff?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
There's grocery whole food car it's separate, but we.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Have visibility on it because that's a completely different animal
it is.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
And that's growing space for sure.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Interesting, Yeah, very cool.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
It's your favorite plane to fly in nowadays? Is it
just like a Well, I'll always bias to the F
eighteen super Hornets, So if I have the chance to
fly out again, that would be great. But in general,
the biggest thing about aviation is first and foremost is safety.
And I think that's one thing that one of many
things that the aviation industry does in general is do
(21:11):
safety really well. And we've taken a lot of those
practices from aviation and applied them to safety at Amazon,
which have proven over the last especially the last year
and a half to be very successful.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
About right the standards you have to have for flying
people absolutely around the world.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Absolutely, Sarah, thank you so much. Thank you for having her.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
What a pleasure, VP of Global Operations at Amazon joining
us right here in.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Our interactive Brokers studio. This is Business Week
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim
Stenebek on Bloomberg Radio taking a look at chairs about TSMC.
They finished the day higher. Other Taiwanese tech supply chain
companies rose today because of some news in the world
of robotics. Carol local media reported that in Vidia is
looking for local suppliers for humanoid robots. Humanoid robots, you
(00:30):
know what these things are? Yeah, I M no, I'm not.
Their robots doesn't look like humans. Tesla's got optimists totally
Supposedly Figure AI is working on him too.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I feel like everybody is. And they talk about, you know,
how it can really help, whether it's in healthcare, but
also in terms of working in I think warehouses and
so on and so forth. There's a lot of things
that we think that they can applied to. And Sarah
Rhodes definitely watches this space very closely. She's vice president
of Global Operations at Amazon, which just includes all the robotics,
AI and general innovation happening when it comes to fulfillment
(01:03):
centers and delivery at Amazon's got a big job. She
joins us here in Opplelnberg Interactive Brokers Studio. Welcome, Welcome,
so glad to have you here.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
How are you? Thank you for having me. It's a
big day for us, So it's an exciting time for
us at Amazon.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
I'm going to let Tim do the first question because
he's got a good one.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Is it harder to be a VP at Amazon or
fly fighter jets?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Well, they're different, but both can be exciting and enjoyable
and positively challenging at the same time.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
So let's talk about your path a little bit. We're
going to get to cyber Monday. We got a nice
chunk of time with you, but you have a really
cool path. Tell us your story.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Sure, Well, I've been with Amazon approaching fourteen years. Started
out as an operations manager in Lexington, Kentucky in our
fulfillment operations. Spent time in Kentucky, Texas, spent three years
in the UK, which was an amazing experience. Returned to
the US in twenty seventeen, and led a team that
built out our hair hal network. So we have a
fleet of Boeing seven six seven seven three sevens. You
(01:57):
really do have your own airlines? Well, I know that's
something like that and a lot of them in Kentucky
around and we have our main air hub at the
Cincinnati Northern Kentucky Airport. They process over thirty flights a day,
hundreds of thousands of packages daily.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I didn't hear any stories about fighter jets.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I'll get you. I'll get you for sure. Yeah. So
spent six years building out the airhol network in the US, Europe,
and India, and then a year and a half ago
I took on the leadership of our global workplace health
and safety teams. So we have a workforce today of
over in laian employees globally across six continents. Prior to Amazon, yes,
I was a Navy F eighteen Super Hornet fighter pilot.
So if you've seen the movie Top Gun, Maverick the
(02:35):
jet and the main part of that movie, that's what
I had the privilege of flying. Definitely a childhood dream.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Do you still fly now?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Not currently. I do have a commercial pilot's license, but
Amazon keeps me busy on a day to day basis.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
What do you find a lot of your colleagues from
the Armed services are doing now? Who were pilots then?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Many fly for the airlines, many went into business. I
have several fellow aviators that are is this now as well,
and many have joined companies like Amazon. In fact, Amazon's
very veteran friendly. We've hired over forty thousand veterans over
the last several years. So it tracks people that are
accustomed to working with large teams of people and familiar
(03:16):
with operational type of environments.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Well, I was going to ask you, Sarah, like, what
about that experience that you just has, I don't know,
helped you tremendously in the job that you do at Amazon,
And you've done multiple jobs and made your way through,
So give us an idea of like how that carried over.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah, I actually get that question quite a bit, and
I know it's great because it is something that people
are curious about because it doesn't necessarily seem like a
common path.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
But I think about that fighter jet, like, yes, this coordination,
but a lot is what.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
You do on your own, right. It is a lot
of decision making, for sure, but it also takes a team.
You know. Jet pilot is merely an extension of the
team that helps ensure that jet is up and ready
to go. The folks on the flight deck of an
aircraft carrier, the folks that ensure that that aircraft carrier
runs safely. You know, so it is definitely a team effort,
and so taking a lot of that teamwork in that
(04:03):
team environment into the operational workspace is one thing. You know.
I think decision making a bias for action, being proactive
about things, looking ahead. These are some of the traits
I think that translate pretty well. And yeah, I think
that it's a combination of thinking big and also diving deep.
Over any given day, we are going to move on,
I promise, Yeah, it's okay.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
We have plenty of times.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Well, we just because your.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Backgrounds are like pretty fascinating tense moments that you had flying.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yes, landing on a moving ship at night in bad
weather and you know, landing at one hundred and thirty
five knots and going to zero in less than two seconds,
and you know, we call it trapping a board an
aircraft carrier. That that's just a lot hot, right, yes, yes, carrier. Yes,
And so it takes a lot of training and concentration
and precision to do that well and do that safely.
(04:54):
So so what sproves to you?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
They're probably like, yeah, I got this.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Well, it does help to put things into context. Yeah, exactly,
all right, a little more on flying.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
I don't know, no, I don't know, no, no, no, sorry,
I can talk about flying all day.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
So yeah, so good.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, but you know it is.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
But it is actually interesting though, what you've done at
Amazon in terms of building out that logistics network. It
like used to be a unique thing to sort of,
you know, get to an airport and see a prime airy. Yeahan,
but what a little over a decade ago the team
over at Amazon started building out its own fleet. I
think you worked with Atlas Air Is that right?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
That was one of our carriers.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yes, And now what's the relationship now is it? Does
Amazon own its own planes? Does it contract out its planes?
How does that work?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Well, we have a combination of we own some aircraft
and we lease out other aircraft, but they're all operated
on our behalf by air carriers. So the pilots aren't
actually Amazon employees, but they fly our branded aircraft. But
going back to your point about you know, seeing a
primary aircraft is kind of a unique thing. I think
back to when I joined Amazon at twenty eleven, our
operations basically ended at the dock door of our fulfillment centers,
(06:00):
and so over time, especially in twenty thirteen, we recognize
in order to keep up with our own growth, we
really had to start build building out our mile last
mile transportation network. So it wasn't long after twenty thirteen
that you started seeing branded trailers out on our interstates,
you started seeing branded final mile delivery vehicles out on
our roads. We built out sort centers, delivery stations, and
(06:22):
you started seeing branded aircraft out there at various airports
throughout the country, including JFK here as well, not too
far from us.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
So does that just continue in terms of the build out,
Like I'm curious, what's the next iteration or next stage
of that.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Well, we worked to also make for an efficient operation
as well. So I think about something that we as
a network have done differently this year as we had
versus years past, and we've worked to regionalize our network.
And I'm talking holistically, not specific to air but if
I think about if customers here in New York City
(06:55):
and places in order over seventy six percent of customer
orders or fiel fulfilled within region, which means within a
couple hundred miles of each other, and what that allows for,
is it means fewer touches, which means less on transportation costs.
We work to keep those prizes low for our customers.
And how we've done that is basically, we're just more
sophisticated with the placement of our most common and most
(07:17):
popular products. So we're a bit smarter in how we
place that that product.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Right Like, if I'm ordering diapers on Amazon, which I
do all the time, it turns out that they're being
shipped oftentimes from Staten Island rather than from a few
years ago, they would actually be showed.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
They could have been Kentucky, they could have been sent.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
From anywhere Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
We're working hard to make sure that we're getting them
closer to our customers.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
So building out that kind of localized distribution network makes
complete sense, right in terms of time, I'm assuming money
saved and access right like, it just makes sense.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yes, like shorter transportation distances, so that reduces the cost
or reduces the number of touches that need to be
placed on a package to process. And of course we
still have some nique items, so not every item is
located near every customer. So that's why we still have
an air air network to ensure that two day delivery,
especially if there's something very unique, maybe located in California,
and we want to get it to you within two
(08:12):
days here in New York.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
I know we've ten, We're gonna have another chunk of time.
Are people opening up and saying, yeah, I'm okay with
the two day delivery. It's not like I have to
have it this afternoon anymore. Are you seeing increasingly people
do that? Like I know in my household, we now
are maybe starting a bucket and maybe letting the week
go or even a couple of weeks before we kind
of hit the buy button and so on and so forth.
(08:34):
It's not like everybody's like, I gotta have this now.
Everybody ten multiple.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Orders unless it's unless it's.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Which happens, which you gotta do? Are you running around
the corner and pick them by? But are you thirty
seconds and then we'll come back and talk more. Are
you increasingly seeing people comfortable with like waiting?
Speaker 1 (08:47):
It is such a personal preference, and that's why when
a customer checks out, they have multiple options. You probably
noticed that way. Yeah, So if you would like it
next day, and that's an option, get it next day.
Sometimes you'll see order within the next two hours and
you'll get up by four pm this afternoon. Sometimes it
might be a two day delivery, or for folks that
do want to consolidate their orders, they can specify the
(09:09):
day of delivery and we work to consolidate into one shipment, which.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Is a good thing for the environment.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Everybody just gonna.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Say, let's get right back to Sarah Rhodes. She's vice
president of Global Operations at Amazon. Yes, it includes all
of robotics, AI and general innovation happening when it comes
to fulfillment centers and delivery at Amazon. We're going to
talk about Cyber Monday in just a minute. We have
a lot of time with you, so I want to
talk a little bit about the next stage of innovation
and how you're thinking about delivery, because you talked about
just this incredible build up that's happened over the past
(09:35):
twenty years at Amazon, when it comes to aviation, when
it comes to last mile, when it comes to your
own brand. I mean, we see we have rivians all
over our neighborhoods delivering Amazon packages in addition to the
Dodge rams, but it seems like more rivians. Now, what's
the next area of innovation, what makes it more efficient?
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Oh well, actually, speaking of Rivian, we just announced last
week we have over twenty thousand electric Rivian vehicles on
the road. When we think about sustainability and the efforts
that we're leaning into there, we're continued to invest and
lean in on the electric vehicle technology. So if I
think about innovation, to answer your question specifically, I think
about the innovation that we're doing on behalf of our
(10:14):
customers and to also help our customers with their shopping experience.
So we have a new AI power tool called Rufus
on our storefront and so people can use it to
maybe get more information about a certain product, or maybe
they need some help with some sizing, or maybe like me,
I need some gift ideas for my nephew, whatever the
case may be, they can use that tool to help
(10:36):
them out. And so that's really exciting to lean into
that and there's more to come in that space. And
we're also leaning in on AI within our operations as well.
So we have a tool, for example, that our employees
can use called Dragonfly, and from the palm of our employees' hands,
they can enter any kind of safety suggestion, operational suggestion
(10:59):
and it goes directly to their manager for action. And
that's just one of many tools in the toolkit that
our employees can use. Are they using it? Oh? Yes,
And it's awesome and the amount of feedback that we
get and the ideas that are generated. And the really
cool thing is one suggestion from an employee may not
just be for that particular site, but it could impact
(11:19):
operations across the network. So we're seeing some really great
ideas coming from our frontline workforce, which is which is
awesome and it's a great tool that is one of many,
Like I mentioned the toolkit for us to maintain that
direct dialogue with our teams.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Where else do you think of AI?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Like?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I do feel like we're scratching the surface and just
beginning to play around with it, either on.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
A corporate or personal level.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Right, But it's it's just I think we're all trying
to figure out how do you think about? Okay, this
is how AI is going to change. I mean, you
guys are such a massive world globally, Like, how do
you think about all? Right, I see AI doing this
for us at Amazon someday.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Well, we have a bit of a glimpse into the
future of AI, automation and robotics with the site that
we just launched in Streepoint Shreeport, Louisiana. We call it
Shive one for short, and I was just down there
a couple of weeks ago, and it is the most
automated site we have anywhere in the world. We've incorporated robotics,
(12:18):
AI automation. We as Amazon, have been using AI and
machine learning for several years actually, but it's now really
kind of coming all together. And so when I think
about the site in Shreport that we launched, we now
have autonomous robotic drives that move carts full of packages
from one point to Another's.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
That different from Akiva robot like because you guys have
been doing.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
This for you. Yeah, the Kiva robots, the traditional robotic
drives that we use, they run off of basically a grid,
So think of they are basically are guided by technology
that uses what's called fiducials. So think of it like
a two D barcode on the floor and it's going
from one point to another. Whereas Proteus is autonomous, it
(13:03):
doesn't rely on a grid. It knows it needs to
go from one station all the way to a doctor
without any type of grid, but there's a lot of
safety features involved, so it goes yes. So when it
senses a person, it'll make some noise. It has a
looks like a smiley face, and so it looks like
it can kind of see the person and it smiles
(13:24):
and helps ensure that you know, it stops and yields
to people. And we actually use similar technology on our
traditional robotics floors, our texts that help to maintain the
robotic drives. They actually have a vest that they put
on when they go out onto the robotic floor and
it stops all robotic drives within six feet. So it's
(13:44):
pretty cool watching that because it looks like the person
has a superpower stopping those robots, which is which is
a huge safety a great safety feature that is definitely
you know, necessary to help ensure that we're keeping that
area safe.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
What about when it comes to robotics and automation in
the picking process, where you still have people actually you know,
going and fulfilling those orders putting them in boxes.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Right, So we've incorporated robotic arms into some of our
processes as well. So if we think of some of
the repetitive motion we're working to engineer that out because
the repetitive motion can lead to ergonomic injuries, which is
one of it is the most common injury type across
the industry, So not just at Amazon, but think of
warehousing and logistics in general. So if we can engineer
(14:30):
that out, we're doing that. However, the site and Shreeport,
we still employed twenty five hundred employees, but thirty percent
of those jobs are more technical than the jobs that
we've had traditionally, meaning what so think of You know,
we need folks to maintain our robotics and automation, so
it takes some technical certifications in order to do that,
(14:52):
and our teams can gain those certifications through a program
called Career Choice at Amazon and so at no cost
work employees. So it's a great benefit that's available.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
The question that has to be asked when if we're
talking about AI and robotics kind of merging together. We
were out on the West Coast at an investment event
and I was involved in a panel that was about AI,
and the question that everybody says was a, I going
to take my job, So help me understand. There's got
to be efficiencies when you're dealing with robotics and so
on and so forth. But what is the thinking about
(15:26):
will it take some jobs?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Will it create some jobs?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Give us your insight on that.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
We call it a collaborative environment, and there's a balance
for sure. But again, when I go back to when
I started in twenty eleven, we didn't have robotic drives
or robots in general across our network, and we had
fifty thousand employees total across the globe. Fast forward to
twenty twenty four and we have over a million employees
across the globe, and we've incorporated robotics in our sites
(15:55):
across the US and in other countries including Europe. I
was just in Japan a few weeks ago. We use
robotics in Japan, and we're I look at this holiday season,
we're hiring two hundred and fifty thousand employees. So we
have to said the same as last year. It's on
park with what we hire too as we go into
the holiday season, and we continue that through throughout the year.
(16:16):
And so there are plenty of jobs available to include
more technical jobs for folks that are interested in that
more technical part of the work experience.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Do you think, given technological upgrades that we've seen in
recent years, we've sort of peaked when it comes to
humans in fulfillment center jobs. Like you know, if we
think about it from an efficiency perspective, you don't need
as many people now, and even next year, you'll need
fewer and fewer people. Not that they're taking their jobs
(16:44):
by any means, but efficiency.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
When I think of efficiencies, I actually think more of
our logistics network as a whole. So we talked earlier
about regionalization. That's really where we're seeing the efficiencies of
removing additional touches. That doesn't mean removing people, it just
removes some of the inefficiencies that we have in our network.
And we're continued to still grow. We're launching buildings, new
(17:07):
operations just about every month, multiple per month in some cases.
In fact, this year, we just launched our first Amazon
operation in Hawaii and it complements the air operation that
we have there as well, So we have an Amazon
delivery station outside of Honolu, which is pretty exciting.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Any update on drones, it's been more than ten years
since Jeff Bezos was on sixty minutes Sunday after Thanksgiving
Monday before Cyber Monday. I remember covering that. It was
great marketing, by the way, but still I haven't never
had anything delivered with a drone.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah, we're continuing to invest in that program, and I
am excited to say that we are actually operating drones
for customer fulfillment outside of Phoenix Tallis in Arizona.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
To be Is it scalable?
Speaker 1 (17:50):
I think over time it will be. You know, there's
obviously a lot of regulations.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
So Stam's going to get his diapers in Brooklyn High
a drone from Amazon.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
It may take some time, but I'm optimistic.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Actually, my daughter's diapers, you were going to go there.
I take it back.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
I take it back.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
It's your daughter's diapers now. But I do wonder, like Ken,
is it scalable in a city that's so dense.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, we're continuing to uh iterate on the drone design itself.
It's all design in house. We're working with the regulators,
of course, because drone delivery in general is a relatively
new space and so there's been a lot of innovation,
invention and iteration over the last several years. But it's
(18:37):
exciting and I'm excited about it.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Okay, Cyber Monday, we promised we promised. How are things
looking so far?
Speaker 1 (18:44):
They're they're looking strong. We had a record breaking Black Friday.
Of course, Cyber Monday isn't over yet. In fact, deals
are still dropping. But I was just at a fulfillment
center in New Jersey this morning and uh, despite the
amount of volume, they're processing hundreds of the packages at
one site. It's very calm organized. We spend the entire
year preparing for this this season, and people, it's really
(19:08):
fun for the teams as well. I personally have experienced
our holiday season in fulfillment centers. So it's been a
great day and overall a great weekend for the for
the teams, and more so for our customers.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
When is it the most stressfulst two weeks before one
week before Christmas?
Speaker 1 (19:22):
When does it just get?
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Like when I get those start getting all those emails
like if you want to buy it by now or
you want to buy now, Like, when does it get
Is it the toughest point for you?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
I want, I want to equate it with stressful because
it's always a controlled operation and the safe operation. I
think it's really more so if if folks are like
me who have a tendency to procrastinate to the last minute.
It's just hard to purchase maybe those those last minute gifts.
You know, there does come a point where there's a
(19:51):
cut off period for the Christmas delivery, So it's really
just keeping an eye on those those cut off periods.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
I got to ask you, Sarah, I I think Tim
and I both think about this. You because your VP
of Global Operations and you've talked about kind of just
everything around the world, how would you describe the global
economy right now?
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Well, what I what I can speak to and what
I can say is what we are seeing in terms
of trends is that our customers and I would use
that broadly, are looking to save money, they're looking for
a bast selection, and they're looking for fast deliveries. And
so we see that across the US, across the globe,
and because we focus on our customer, that's what we
(20:30):
continue to do and ensure that the best experience for
our Amazon customers.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Do you also handle grocery delivery and whole foods and stuff?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
There's grocery whole food car it's separate, but we.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Have visibility on it because that's a completely different animal
it is.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
And that's growing space for sure.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Interesting, Yeah, very cool.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
It's your favorite plane to fly in nowadays? Is it
just like a Well, I'll always bias to the F
eighteen super Hornets, So if I have the chance to
fly out again, that would be great. But in general,
the biggest thing about aviation is first and foremost is safety.
And I think that's one thing that one of many
things that the aviation industry does in general is do
(21:11):
safety really well. And we've taken a lot of those
practices from aviation and applied them to safety at Amazon,
which have proven over the last especially the last year
and a half to be very successful.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
About right the standards you have to have for flying
people absolutely around the world.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Absolutely, Sarah, thank you so much. Thank you for having her.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
What a pleasure, VP of Global Operations at Amazon joining
us right here in.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Our interactive Brokers studio. This is Business Week
Hosts And Creators
Tim Stenovec
Carol Massar
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com