Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - August 1st, 2025 - Bloomberg Businessweek

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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
This is Bloomberg Business Week Daily reporting from the magazine
that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies,
and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business finance
and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week
Daily Podcast with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Hi, everyone, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Week Weekend Podcast.
A FED decision that left rates unchanged as expected, and
chair Jay Powell saying interest rates are in the right
place to manage continued uncertainty around tarifs and inflation, so
rate cut in September not likely, at least not right now.
Plus tons of earnings, including from four of the Magnificent Seven,

(00:53):
and of course more tariff talks, TIFFs and terms. This
past week. I gotta say, Tim, was what some Wall
Street pro said was a pivotal one for the second half.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
A busy summer weeks, certainly to wrap up the month
of July. This hour, we're going to hit on earnings
from Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, and Meta plus Alphabet. The company
reported earnings just about a week ago, and they said
that the cloud computing unit at Google is its strongest
source of growth. We're going to talk with the COO
of Google Cloud.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Also this hour, and also on earnings. UK pharma company
AstraZeneca reported results. It's CEO stat by Bloomberg headquarters and
talked about doubling down on the US and sizing up
Chinese competition. And then, speaking of drugs, the CEO of
Compass Pathways joins us somehow psychedelics may be making their
way to FDA approval.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
That's in our second hour, so too is a story
about burning Man's existential financial crisis. All that to come, though,
We kick off with earnings from a batch of the
so called mag seven Apple, Amazon, Meta, and Microsoft, all
reporting this past week. All of the details and more
are on the Bloomberg terminal. We caught up with Laura Martin,
senior analyst A and need him in Company who covers

(02:05):
many of them, and started our post earnings review talking
about Apple.

Speaker 4 (02:09):
Apple admitted that one hundred one thousand basis points, so
one percent of their revenue growth, which was ten percent,
well above average, was from pull forward, and the market's
telling you they think that number was like five, you know, four.

Speaker 5 (02:21):
Half of the gain. Basically.

Speaker 4 (02:23):
Apple also said they had eight hundred million dollars of
costs from tariffs in that second that requorter they just reported,
and it's going to go up to one point one
billion visibly in the September quarter. But I think the
market's telling you they think that could be higher. So
in this September quarter.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
Oh so, does does this mean that we'll see fewer
iPhones bought in the first fiscal quarter Apple? But Apple's
December quarter, which typically is its biggest quarter, as a
result of the pull forward that we saw in this quarter,
I think it's worse, it's faster.

Speaker 4 (02:54):
So the June quarter over delivered because they pulled forward
demand from the September quarter. Those are all old iPhones
and then in late September you typically get the new
iPhone and then you start this new annual cycle of
the new iPhone. And one of the things they said
is that Siri and Apple Intelligence will only be integrated
next year, by which they're probably talking calendar year, which

(03:16):
means the earliest we'll see you know, generative AI features,
drive and upgrade cycle for the iPhone would be not
September of twenty five, it'd be September of twenty six.
So then that tells you, so this is dead money again, right,
there's nothing driving and there's risk here, not only China subsidies.
Wrote drove a really nice China growth number, four point

(03:36):
eight percent China revenue growth. People are worried that that
is also like that subsidy isn't going to recur. And
we've had a couple negative litigation regulatory decisions. Right, We've
got the feed to twenty billion dollars a year is
what Google Search pays Apple to be the default search
engine on all iOS devices. I think it's pretty clear

(03:59):
from Channel and DC that is not going to be
allowed to persist. So that's twenty billion that will come
out of services if it isn't allowed. And then similarly,
we have the epic they got into Apple got a
negative epic Games which allows that which allows consumers to
pay directly to apps and not have Apple share thirty percent.

(04:20):
So that's another that's an app store risk that over
the next twelve months, not immediate, but over the next
twelve months.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
You know, Laura, We've had the luxury of talking with
you in the last week or two and talking specifically
about Apple you've got a hold rating on it. It
doesn't sound like you have a lot of concerns. I
guess I should say why not put a cell rating
on it.

Speaker 4 (04:39):
One of the issues is when you look at the
other mag seven, they basically have a singular strategy, which
is envision generative air as disruptive. We everyone else is
going to spend eighty five to one hundred billion dollars
in CAPEX in twenty twenty five alone, and we're going
to grow at twenty percent in twenty six with no

(05:02):
Every one of them has been pushed on what is
that return on capital incremental capital? They all say, we
don't know. We just think it's going to be big.
If you don't believe that, if you're an investor and
you think that jenerative AI is overhyped or the economics
are further off into the future, Apple is a great
place to hide. They are spending twenty billion dollars a year,

(05:22):
not eighty five billion dollars a year. Jeneritive AI is
sometime in the future. They're not spending they're not hiring
people like Meta Is for one hundred million dollars each
to work on superintelligence. This is Apple is a great
place to hide if you are an investor that doesn't
believe in generative changing the world.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
Well, wait a minute. You know Apple often isn't you know,
first mover or on some big changes. Right, we talked
about it.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
Creates the tablet. They didn't create the music player, they
didn't create the smartphone, but they created the best of
all those things exactly.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
So if they're saying, hey, guys, go ahead and spend
you know, your billions or trillions or whatever the heck
it is, figure out this AI thing and then we'll
come in and we'll collaborate or partner with somebody, maybe
that's not such a bad strategy.

Speaker 5 (06:02):
So it's risky business.

Speaker 4 (06:03):
So on the call last night, Tim Cook got this question,
and what he said is, I don't see a world
where the consumer doesn't have an iPhone, which is basically
a computer in his pocket.

Speaker 5 (06:15):
Okay, that's a vision of the future that.

Speaker 4 (06:18):
Johnny Ive, who's gone to open AI is trying to displace.
Johnny Ive, who developed every Apple product you have in
your pocket while he was at Apple for twenty years,
is now saying he regrets creating the screen because he
thinks it makes people not pay attention to one another.
So he's trying to move the next device with generative
AI backing to not.

Speaker 5 (06:38):
Be a screen.

Speaker 4 (06:39):
So that may not work, but if it does Apple,
that's a problem for app. That is an existential risk
problem for Apple. So long as an iPhone and a
screen are going to be sort of the user device
of record, and they're going to persist in ten years,
you might be right, that might be possible. What you
just said, Apple can copy the best of Android, which

(07:02):
will have Gemini because Google has Gemini.

Speaker 5 (07:05):
In every product. Now, that will work.

Speaker 4 (07:07):
But if Jimmy I've and OpenAI or right, and screens
are going away, that's problematic for a smartphone maker.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
I guess that's maybe where whatever they're working on for
a face computer could come in. Laura, I want to
go back to what you said about Gemini and Android
because of the way that Gemini is baked into Google devices. Now,
you say in your most recent note that Apple is
a single product company, its valuation risk is material if
iOS falls too far behind Android, would you say that

(07:36):
iOS is already behind Android right now?

Speaker 6 (07:38):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (07:38):
I would absolutely, I would.

Speaker 4 (07:40):
I mean when you look at Google's its revenue is
accelerating over at Alphabet and its costs are going down,
so its productivity per employee is going up. Why Because
eighty percent of engineers are using Gemini to do their
first draft of code for new products. They're introducing new
products faster. They over delivered on advertising because they're integrating

(08:02):
all these bettern both Meta and Google. Because they're using
generative AI to increase the conversion rate. So, yes, Gemini
is being integrated into everything at Alphabet, Android includion.

Speaker 7 (08:13):
Does it?

Speaker 3 (08:13):
Like two comments here? One is the network effects that
Apple has, at least here in the US are really strong, right,
the blue bubbles for when you're on I Message and
the other Apple products that you have that ideally are
supposed to work seamlessly with that. Plus, doesn't Gemini have
an app that you can just use on your iPhone?
So if you want to use Gemini as sort of
a copilot here, if you are an engineer, you can
just do it on your iPhone, but through an app

(08:35):
that you get at the app store, right.

Speaker 5 (08:36):
If it's standalone.

Speaker 4 (08:38):
But I mean, I think my guess is where Alphabet's
going is they're going to integrate your They're going to
integrate Gemini into everything on your device. It's going to
know where your appointments are, it's going to know who
your friends are. It's going to be a personal assistant
integrated into your Android phone. It's going to be a
bigger idea than just a separate app where you go
to it. It's going to be like, even if you

(09:00):
listen to the meta vision of the world, super intelligence
is about having a robot friend that does everything for
you better than a human can make you. I mean,
it's just I think these are bigger ideas than an
app store. By the way, some CEO's visions of their
apps are disappearing. So then you say, so what replaces them?

Speaker 5 (09:20):
Well, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (09:21):
Used to be websites, then we went to apps. What's next?
It may not be apps?

Speaker 8 (09:26):
All right?

Speaker 1 (09:27):
You mentioned I want to just get to meta Amazon.
What about meta? You know? In terms of I mean
that Stock was just off and running following it's quarterly update.
Those ad sales number certainly catching everybody's attention, a mega
megaspen when it comes to AI. What is your hot
take on that one?

Speaker 4 (09:46):
So Stock up strongly, really strong fundamentals, just sixty percent margins,
twenty two percent revenue growth, and a huge company which
was the fastest of the group that we the big
tech companies we call really strong fundamentals. We are cautious
on Meta, and that is because they took their capex

(10:08):
to seventy billion this year and one hundred billion next year,
again no return in sight, and their stock comp per
person is going through the roof as they hire super
intelligence employees, with press reports saying they're paying one hundred
to three hundred million over three years for each of
these people.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
Pretty get it, I'll say, yeah.

Speaker 4 (10:30):
My guess is they're trying to change the world right,
and they believe in super intelligence, which this isn't a
vision of making you and I'm more productive. This is
about replacing human beings with machines that teach machines. So
it's literally terminator like life imitating art type of stuff.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
Doesn't sound like you're your pro AI in that in
that context, let's stick let's.

Speaker 5 (10:51):
Stick to Meta as a stock. My concern is that
we're goin we're losing.

Speaker 4 (10:55):
Five billion dollars a quarter on reality labs, and we're
still funding the Metal and we're funding Quest goggles, and
we're funding kar Glass Way banned glasses and now we're
funding a jen Ai competition with companies twice their size.
All of that feels like a lot of capital spending
to me and actually costs to me without a clear sense.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
But investors are saying they are okay with it up
to now because they believe that Mark Zuckerberg has this
vision for super intelligence, which, to be honest, nobody has
actually articulated to me, Well, what does that world look
like that that meta wants to create and thinks will
be so profitable?

Speaker 1 (11:33):
Are they okay? Just because the ad sales number came
in really strong, Like if it didn't, might everybody be
like maybe not?

Speaker 5 (11:38):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (11:40):
Yes, absolutely, he is buying the right to spend money
like a drunken sailor because his fundamentals and his core
business are strongly over delivering consensussessments. The day that stops,
the music stops, and suddenly people are going to take
a hard look at these You know, he's making five

(12:00):
year commitments for these super intelligence employees, and he's making
ten year commitments with the money he's spending on data centers.

Speaker 5 (12:07):
So all of this money he.

Speaker 4 (12:08):
Has a free pass so long as his core business
is growing twenty two.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
Percent okay, okay, totally makes sense sort of the free
pass like Elon was, you know, allowed to be CEO
of many different companies and investors were fine with it
until they weren't. Jack Dorsey the same thing, right, It
works until it doesn't. Yeah, what about though, the promise
of this being profitable in the future, all this investment

(12:34):
ultimately paying off beyond making ads more efficient? What is
that vision? What does that world look like in your view?
At least articulated by Mark Zuckerberg.

Speaker 4 (12:44):
So again, so Mark Mark is just he has got
a big idea. He wants to replace Apple, that's for sure.
So does open Ai. So Apple takes a thirty percent
tithe on every dollar earned on its platform, and that
hurts Mark Zuckerberg not only because Apple gets paid for
a lot of work he is doing on Facebook and Instagram,

(13:05):
but also it allows them to change policies and procedures
like around security and safety and privacy. That costs Mark
Zuckerberg ten billion in revenue three years ago, and since then,
Mark Zuckerberg is all about replacing Apple or that piece
of hardware with ybound glasses or Quest goggles.

Speaker 5 (13:23):
Or something or the metaverse.

Speaker 4 (13:26):
He's trying to displace Apple, and he wants to be
the backbone that everybody has to pay thirty percent to.
So that's his main economic mission. And now Jenerative AI
comes along, which I think, you know, I think many
CEOs thinks it changes everything. Even Apple said it's the
biggest technological disruption of our lifetime.

Speaker 5 (13:44):
And they benefited from mobile, which.

Speaker 4 (13:45):
You would have thought that would they would have thought
was bigger than Jenai, but apparently not.

Speaker 9 (13:49):
So.

Speaker 4 (13:50):
I guess the question is Meta is saying we think
they're super intelligence. We think every human being is going
to have a robot that they hold on to, maybe
without a screw. We don't know, you know, we don't
know what the form factor is. But that does things
for you where you see the world differently and it
helps you get through the world. But I don't think
we know what that is yet, and he doesn't either.

(14:11):
That's why he's hiring fifty smart people to have robots,
train robots faster to do stuff humans can't do.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Well, nobody can do what you can do. We want
to ask you about Amazon. Sure this dock down still
more than eight percent here in the aftermarket, and I
think there is concerns about kind of the cloud spend comparison,
you know, among the big hyperscalers, Amazon still the biggest
when it comes to, you know, we think about what's
going on in terms of the cloud. What you take

(14:39):
here are what we kind of need to be thinking
about with Amazon, because investors seem pretty disappointed, are you?

Speaker 4 (14:47):
So I think here's what I think is going on
with Amazon. Answer the first half of that question. So,
they had very strong revenue growth up thirteen percent, which
was like, you know, we were four percentage points low
that and very strong EPs and margins. But the problem
is they gave very tepid guidance. So people are really

(15:07):
worried about tariff's impacts here, so they're worried about the
next shoe to drop. They're advertising grew very robustly at
thirty twenty three percent, which is great, And I think
that would have been higher had not Tamu and Chean
stopped advertising, you know, sort of on April tenth because
they lost the Dominimus except rule exception. So I think

(15:28):
that would have been higher. But that's a fabulous number
nobody's focusing on today, and I think people investors we've
talked to are frustrated with capital spending on Kuiper which
has no revenue, capital spending after for ten years so
far on Alexa no revenue, and like they're going to
urban delivery same day, And I think people don't understand
their core business of e commerce. I think people don't

(15:50):
understand that as to use a capital. At the same time,
they just raised their capex guidance. When you do the
numbers to round numbers, one hundred and fifteen, one hundred
and twenty billion this year. The next closest is Microsoft
and Google at eighty five billion, so they're quite a
bit above everybody else on this jenerative a I think,
and then AWS has a mnemic revenue growth, you know,

(16:11):
neg I mean thirty two percent margins in the cloud business,
and they were thirty nine percent ninety days ago, like
what the heck? And they say their capacity constrained. So
then we would forgive them if they only report seventeen
percent revenue growth, But then why aren't your margins sixty percent?

Speaker 5 (16:27):
Why aren't they forty percent?

Speaker 4 (16:28):
Again it why not sell to the highest bid or
the last you know, you know, one gig of capacity.
So we saw that in both Azure over at Microsoft
and in Google Cloud slower I mean.

Speaker 5 (16:41):
Growth rates, but really high margins. And that just didn't
play out at.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Amazon all right around the world. We went Thank you
so much, Laura, always appreciate it. By the way, Laura's
got a by rating on Amazon with a two hundred
and sixty five dollars share price target. The stock right
now just below two fifteen his share Laura Martin, have
a great weekend. Senior analyst at need him in Cup
Joining us.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily Podcast. Catch us
live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen
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or watch us live on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Microsoft this past week reported better than expected growth in
its cloud business and said spending on AI infrastructure hit
a record. The closely watched Azure cloud computing unit posted
a thirty nine percent rise in sales during Microsoft's fiscal
fourth quarter. Company also said sales at the cloud division
grew thirty four percent to more than seventy five billion
dollars during the year end of June thirtieth, the first

(17:40):
time the company has disclosed a revenue figure for Azure.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
Meanwhile, the week before Google parent Alphabet and to deal
with more than a billion dollars to provide cloud computing
services to the software firm Service. Now, Alphabet's massive spend
on AI has helped its score major client wins, especially
among AI startups, all will making strides against its competitors
such as Amazon Web Services and Azure from Microsoft. Remember,

(18:06):
back in February, Salesforce agreed to spend at least two
and a half billion dollars over seven years on Google's
cloud services.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
And so no surprise perhaps to Google's cloud computing unit
revenue topping analyst estimates when it recently gave it's corely update.
So yeah, we wanted to know more and we got
the chance when we were joined by Francis Desuza. He
is the first chief operating officer of Google Cloud.

Speaker 7 (18:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (18:30):
Right now, it feels like there are two powerful mega
trends that are playing out in the enterprise market. The
first is, you know, the continued move by companies of
their workloads to the cloud, of their applications to the cloud.
And the second, much bigger trend that's playing at right
now is the adoption of AI by companies and those
two powerful mega trends are driving our business and fueling

(18:51):
the growth that you saw in the quarter. And so
what we're seeing on the AI side is, you know,
this is the fastest in my career that I've seen
at technology move from pilots to production. And so what
we're in talking to customers, what they're telling is is
they're recognizing the benefits that AI can bring into their
company across the board. You know, we have companies that

(19:12):
like Verizon that are using AI to help do customers support.
We work at Seattle Children's Hospital that's using AI to
inform physicians in their communications with patients. We also have
companies like Papa John's or McDonald's that are using AI
in the franchises, and so we're seeing broad adoption by
enterprises across a number of places where they can see

(19:35):
the benefits from AI.

Speaker 3 (19:36):
You just mentioned a few examples of companies that you
work with. There are a lot of small businesses, though,
and even large businesses that I think it's fair to
say haven't fully harnessed what you view as the opportunity
when it comes to AI. How big of an opportunity
is it for Google Cloud? What's a number how can
you quantify this?

Speaker 8 (19:53):
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right in that we're the
very early stages of what is a very large sort
of adoption market in front.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
Of it now.

Speaker 8 (20:00):
You know, you look at the numbers we delivered, you know,
last quarter and Google Cloud, we delivered thirteen point six
billion dollars in revenue, and as you said, that's up
thirty two percent year over year. So although the numbers
are already big, we're still just at the very very
beginning of AI adoption by companies. And that's true whether
you look at small companies who are starting to use
it in terms of their outreach to customers to scale

(20:23):
up their presence from a marketing perspective, all the way
to large enterprises. We're just at the very beginning of
this big wave.

Speaker 9 (20:29):
You know.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
One of the things Francis said, I'm so glad we
could get some time with you, is that, you know,
everybody kind of throws out AI and large language models generally,
and we're just trying to get more of an understanding
of how this all impacts our world. Drilled down a
little bit further in terms of the customers that you
are working with, big, medium and small, and how they
are using AI and how it's going to impact our lives.

Speaker 8 (20:52):
Yeah, we're seeing it show up in enterprises in a
whole bunch of different ways, and so let me give
you some examples. You know, some large manufacturers like Toyota,
for example, or Honeywell are using AI on the factory
floor to provide information to the people working on the
factory floor to improve their operational ability, and also to
provide access for their customers to engineering and technical support

(21:15):
documents around the product, so make it easier for customers
to navigate and find the information they need. We're seeing
some hospitals, as I talked about, helping using AI to
help provide physicians access to whether it's guidelines or any
background information. In addition, we're seeing hospitals use AI to

(21:37):
automatically transcribe the communications with their patients. So what AI
will do is actually take the notes automatically and then
upload it into the systems that it needs to. What
that does is it frees up time for the medical
professionals to do what they do best, which is deal
with patients. We're seeing small businesses they're using AI to

(21:58):
create marketing materials and do that much more efficiently. We're
seeing large retailers like Wayfair that are using AI to
create more personalized experiences for their customers when you come
to the website, so you can imagine as you're using Wayfair,
you can imagine how the furniture items will look in
your environment, and that provides a better shopping experience for customers.

(22:19):
So we're seeing a wide swath of ways that AI
is being used in companies.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
I'm so glad you mentioned kind of the medical area
and what they're doing, because I think a lot of
folks come on our air and talk to the Bloomberg
audience and talk about how AI might significantly impact not
just hospitals, but just how we get medical care. You
are the former CEO of Alumina, and I think about
DNA sequencing and all of the information and data that

(22:46):
could potentially improve how we are treated when it comes
to healthcare. How are you thinking about that space and
what it might mean for Google Cloud and demand there.

Speaker 8 (22:56):
Yeah, I think AI is going to have a very
big impact in a number of ways across healthcare. Right,
So if we talked about some ways where it's helping
in the delivery of care by freeing up medical professionals
from administrative tasks and using more of their time to
actually interact with patients. In addition, it's also helping medical professionals,
you know, get access to the information they need across

(23:19):
a whole swath of information, so you know, they need
to be able to stay on top of guidelines as
they emerge, new research that's being published, as well as
all the information on the patient, and increasingly, you know,
we're getting more and more personalized information on a patient.
You talked about genomics, there are a lot of images
as well as previous lab tests, and so what AI
can do is sort of take all that information and

(23:41):
present it in a more digestible way so that you
can make better decisions. In addition, AI can also help
you know earlier in the process of drug development. We've
seen fantastic advances with tools like alpha fold, which allows
you to you know, deduce a three D protein structure
US hundreds of millions of protein types. What that does,

(24:03):
then is that allows you to identify maybe new druggable
targets that allow you to treat diseases. And I can
also help bring information together, you know, the genomic information,
the phenotypic information, you know the imaging information and help
us get better understanding of what causes diseases and how
they develop, and that could give us new insights that

(24:25):
allow us to think about how we can treat those
diseases better. So in almost every part of the healthcare industry,
you can see how AI can help improve that industry.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
We're speaking with Francis deesu'sa chief operating officer over at
Google Cloud. Francis, I want to talk a little bit
about competition. For years, Amazon has been number one. According
to our Bloomberg Intelligence team and data from IDC. In
twenty twenty three, AWS had about forty seven percent of
the infrastructure as a service market share, Microsoft in second
place with sixteen percent, and then Google coming in with

(24:56):
about six percent. How do you get to number two
then number one?

Speaker 8 (25:01):
What's really interesting is that as I talk to customers
with their things as a convergence of two really big
important spaces. One is the cloud spaces you talked about,
and two AI. So nearly every customer conversation I have
now in prospect conversation I have is really all about
AI and how it will impact businesses. And we are
the only hyperscaler that actually has our own AI stack.

(25:25):
So if you think about every part of the AI
technology stack, Google has leading technology. So for example, on
the chip side, we're one of the largest partners in
the world with Nvidia on GPUs, but we also have
our own technology TPUs that are very highly performant and
we run them in our data centers. In terms of
the models, we work with a number of other model providers,

(25:49):
so if you go into our model garden, you know
you can access models from companies like Anthropic and deep Seek,
but we also have the world's leading model with Gemini
two dot five, which is performing really well on the
top of the leader boards in almost every part of AI.
And so here too we provide our own leading technologies,
and it's Gemini, but it's also our image models, our

(26:09):
video models, our time series models, our weather models, and
then we also provide our own applications on top of that,
like Agent Space that allow companies to easily develop their
own agents. And then we have a leading cybersecurity portfolio.
And so where we are differentiated in the market is
that as we talk to customers, we're really the only
hyperscaler that can talk about our own native AI stack

(26:32):
that's leading technologies in each part of the stack as
well as our cloud, and that's playing really well, and
that's driving a lot of the results that you are seeing.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
I got to say, it's the thinking models, the Gemini
two point five that really kind of are blowing everybody's minds. Hey,
one thing I want to ask you, speaking of customers,
Tim and I full disclosure, we talk about it a lot.
Are a little bit obsessed with weimo. How much is
weimo using Google Cloud. I'm just curious in terms of
keeping that all going and running.

Speaker 8 (27:01):
Yeah, I totally understand why you love Weimo. I love
weimo too. Living in San Francisco, I've been using it
for a few years and my daughters and I love
it as you can imagine, you know, being sister, you
know parts of Google. We leverage technologies that Google Cloud
is building as well as deep Mind is building, and
so you as you could imagine, you know, there's really
close interactions from a technology perspective across these different parts

(27:24):
of Google.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
Hey, just thirty seconds left. Security. As we know your
former background semant tech, you understand the importance of security specifically,
and I'm just curious, what do you keep top of
mind when you think about the security of Google Cloud
and keeping it secure.

Speaker 8 (27:43):
Yeah, as you point out, security is a really important
area for us to focus on, and it's a core
part of the value that we deliver to our customers
in terms of providing a very resilient, protected cloud. There
are a number of things that you know that are
top of mind for us and for our customers as
we talk aboutecurity, especially in a world of AI. One
is it's important that security companies are leaning deep into

(28:07):
leveraging AI to improve their security capabilities. So we offer agents,
for example, that customers can deploy as part of their
security operations center as part of their threat intelligence gathering,
and so we're also doing research on how AI can
be leveraged by the bad actors and think about how
you can stay on top of providing defenses for things

(28:28):
like you know, altered images and videos and deep fakes.
It's also important to our customers that the security we
provide works multi clouds, so not just for Google Cloud,
but that they can have the same security posture for
workloads that they have on other clouds as well, and
so that's an important part of the conversation too. So
provide leading edge technologies, stay on top of AI and

(28:50):
the expanding sort of threat landscape that opens up. And
then also make sure that whatever you give us, you know,
works across clouds.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
So glad we could get some time with you to SUSA.
He's the Chief Operating Officer at Google Cloud, former CEO
of Alumina, and also former president at Samantech, where he
oversaw the security and data management portfolio.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live
each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Applecarplay and
the Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can
also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New
York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
Thirty Shares of Astra Zeneca rose this past week, right
after it reported better than expected sales and rising profit
for the second quarter, spurred by its stable of cancer
medicines and growth in the US. The company recently pledged
fifty billion dollars by twenty thirty in both production and
research and development in the United States, as it seeks
to show President Trump's administration it is serious about making

(29:50):
medicines locally.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
A few days later, President Donald Trump sent letters to
seventeen of the world's largest drug makers demanding that they
charged the US what other country pay for new medicines.
The letter added that they immediately lower what they charge
Medicaid for existing drugs and guarantee that future medicines be
launched and remain at prices on par with what they

(30:11):
cost overseas. On top of that, US Commerce Secretary Howard
Lutnik also said that the US will impose a massive
tariff if pharmaceuticals are not made in the US. For
the latest head on over to Bloomberg dot com.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Tar of certainly top of mind for many global pharmaceutical executives.
One of them Pascal Surio. He is Astrozenica's chief executive officer,
and he joined us alongside Bloomberg News health reporter Madison
Mueller in studio.

Speaker 10 (30:37):
I mean, I think, first of what it's important to
really think about what every country would want to do,
because every country would want to make sure they can
and they can secure the health of their citizens.

Speaker 7 (30:47):
It's a question of national security.

Speaker 10 (30:49):
So nobody should be surprised that the president wants to
reshow manufacturing of pharmaceutical products. I personally have seen this
have been since several years, and we decided several years
ago to increase some manufacturing footprint in the US so
we can actually manufacture many scenes for American patients in America.

(31:10):
Every country would want to do that, and a big
country like America, of course kind effort to do it.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
You said that you made that decision several years ago.
How much of the fifty billion dollar pledge was planned
before the President threatened these terraffs.

Speaker 10 (31:24):
Well, we've been pursuing this strategy of manufacturing in China
for China, in the US, for the US since five
six years and quite frankly, COVID actually showed us we
were on the right track because we all saw what
happened during COVID, and so we accelrated this movement. And
so our fifty billion commitment is a commitment to R
and D but also commitment to manufacturing. We announced together

(31:45):
with the Governor of Virginia, a multi billion dollar investment
in manufacturing in Virginia. And the Governor of Virginia has
been incredibly fast.

Speaker 7 (31:53):
With this team.

Speaker 10 (31:54):
So the three days to reach an agreement, it's incredible.
So we're very happy to be there. We are building
on you R and the site and Kendle Square, Cambridge,
Massachusett with twenty five hundred scientists that we'll be working there,
and there's more to come. We're just finishing the build
of a Celtes RP manufacturing site in Rockville, Maryland. We've
expanded in California. So so it's a sort of multi

(32:18):
prane effort across many states across the US.

Speaker 11 (32:21):
You know, you've said that Virginia obviously has made it
easy to make manufacturing investments there in North Carolina is
pretty similar. Are there other states in the US where
you're having these types of good conversations that are you know,
incentivizing businesses like yours to invest.

Speaker 10 (32:37):
Well, you know, it's hard for me to point the
point that any state that is better than another. Let
me just say that we have.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
No problems.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
From different in New Jersey.

Speaker 10 (32:53):
Let me let me just say that the company like
is for other science. So science is key, and so
you need to be able to recruit the right sciences,
the right engineers. And in Virginia you can do this
because you have some of the best university universities. The
other part is dealing with partners in a public sector
that understand us that we trust each other.

Speaker 7 (33:13):
We can move fast.

Speaker 10 (33:14):
You know, I always tell people in our company talk
about Astrazenica speed because there's a lot of competition. We
need to move fast. I've learned Virginia speed. The governor
has moved so quickly. So this is the kind of
thing we want to see, whether it's in America, in
a state or in a country. We want speed and
we want people to understand how we think.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
You want speed. You want people to understand how you
think you want to You said you want to follow
the science. There has been criticism that Robert F. Kennedy Junior,
the Secretary of Health and Human Services, has not necessarily
always followed the science with his comments when it comes
to medicine, when it comes to drugs, when it comes
to vaccines. How do you look at that and his
role there.

Speaker 10 (33:52):
Well, you know, I'm not here to actually get involved
in political discourses. Let me just say that as a company,
sciences at the heart of everything we do. The reason
we have such a large oncology pipeline and particular and
beyond this is because we've focused on science for the
last ten twelve years, and America is where science in

(34:15):
our industry is happening, and that's why it's so critical
to preserve this biosciences leadership the US hires globally. China
is also becoming a very big source of innovation in
our industry. Your open fortunately is fulling behind for a
variety of reasons. So innovation is happening here. We need
to keep this going. We need to actually continue supporting

(34:36):
the leadership. And that's why we invest fifty billion dollars
in this country, not only in manufacturing, but also in
R and D.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
What about China, I'd love you to kind of explore
that a little bit. What are you investing in and
building out in China and what might surprise our audience
about the innovation that's happening in China, especially when it
comes to pharmaceuticals.

Speaker 7 (34:56):
Yeah, I think my great question I think we need
to start.

Speaker 10 (34:59):
With is the the hypothesis, the assumption that basically the
more products, so the more innovation exists in the world,
the better it is for everybody, for every patient, because
if you have a patient with cancer, the only thing
that you care about is to be cured if you
can be cured, right, and so innovation in China has
really ramped up very rapidly.

Speaker 7 (35:18):
In the last few years.

Speaker 10 (35:19):
China has gone from making generics to ME TOOS to
metwo plus what we could meet two plus in our
industry to truly innovate these days, innovate in new technologies
and cell therapy in si RN, in many many technologies,
and so China has become the second engine of innovation,
not as big as the US. The US remains the

(35:42):
leader in that field, but China is ramping up very quickly.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
Is the administration with some of it, some would say
questionable disruptive policies. There's been a lot of reporting about
scientists kind of leaving the United States and going elsewhere.
Are you seeing signs of that, whether it's to Europe,
to China to elsewhere because of not supporting you know,
academia and academic universities. Some of that seems to be

(36:07):
coming back.

Speaker 10 (36:07):
But yeah, but you know, in these things, it's always
difficult to discern what is anecdotal versus what is systemic.
What we have seen in China is really a substantial
return of scientists from the US but also from the
UK and elsewhere, but not because of policy, simply because
they could see opportunities in China. There is money, there

(36:28):
is capital that can be invested. The Chinese are willing
to take risk. The government has facilitated the return of
the scientists and they've come back. But I can tell
you that a lot of the scientists we work with
and China in about the companies that we partner with,
many of these people are American. The American Chinese. I
mean they go back and forth, back and forth. There
are bridge between the US and China, but they've gone

(36:52):
to China because of the opportunities to create a company,
be funded, tach risk, and hopefully be successful and buy
and large.

Speaker 7 (37:01):
They've been quite successful.

Speaker 10 (37:03):
I want to say, though, that the leadership remains with
the US and we need to maintain this, of course,
I mean the country needs to maintain this.

Speaker 11 (37:12):
There's been some concern though that companies like yours, you know,
not necessarily astro, but big pharmaceutical companies are going to
China for most of their biotech deals. Now, you know,
what would you say to that, and what would US
biotech companies need to do to sort of attract investments
from from well.

Speaker 10 (37:30):
I mean, the first thing I would say is that
if you're a patient, you don't care what you want
is a drug that will help you. Right, So when
we do a deal with a Chinese company, typically it's
because they've discovered a product and they need help to
globalize it. Because discovering something in a lab is one thing.

(37:50):
It doesn't require a huge amount of money. It require
us very talented people, but the capital requirement is limited.
When you want to develop globally, then you need to scale.
You need billions of dollars of investment in phase two,
phase three, and you do the scale. You know the people,
the expertise. So what we do is we licen sindle
product and then we develop them globally and then bring

(38:11):
them to patients, so they start the innovation started in
China but becomes a global medicine for everybody, so it
really benefits everybody around the world.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
I want to go back to sort of a global
domestic question the idea of your listing and the Times
of London has said that astro Zeneka is looking to
move it's listening to the US. Are you going to
do that?

Speaker 1 (38:34):
Well, you just shared with us.

Speaker 10 (38:38):
Yeah, we don't comment on rumors. And you know, as
a company, over the last ten years we've had so
many rumors. We don't comment on rumors. The only thing
I will say really is the United States is really
core to our company. By two thousand and thirty, we
expect fifty percent of our revenue to come out of
the United States. Today it's forty four forty five percent.

(39:00):
Tremendously in the US in the first half. The US
is the country that innovates I just told you, but
also the countries that uptake the innovation faster, patients benefit
much faster. So we want to invest here and we
want to grow here, and that is a very critical
part of our company globally.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
Just curious in terms of growth. You know, we've talked
about earnings and your cancer drugs are certainly important in
terms of growth. Where do you see kind of the
most significant growth trends when it comes to pharmaceuticals. We've
spent the last what is it, Madison, the last couple
of years talking about the obesity drugs and weight loss drugs,
But where do you see it? We talk often about
genes and genetic and immunotherapy. Where do you see the

(39:44):
real growth coming in the next I don't know, five
to ten years.

Speaker 10 (39:46):
A great question, but it's almost all of the above.
I mean, of course my check managing what I would
call sat rolo abdominal fat. Because everybody talks about obesity,
what really matters is how much fat do you have
in your domains that surrounds you, your liver, your punkreas,
your heart and creates inflammation and insulin resistance and all

(40:06):
the consequences. We can think about hypertension and others. So
this is really a big epitieomic globally. We need to
address that and that's what companies like lilian Over are
doing today and we are we want to do this
with all agents. But then you know, we have development
in antibody drug conjugates, we have developments in by specific

(40:31):
antibodies for cancer. One of the most exciting new technology
is cell therapy because cells upy will apply to ematology, cancers,
but also potentially sold tumors and immune diseases. We have
no cases, small numbers early days, but small cases that
young women who suffer from lupus, which is a terrible disease.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Can be a family member who has can be cured.

Speaker 10 (40:58):
I mean, these patient stay, their life is about taking drugs.
Theories with all the consequences you can imagine the organs
are destroyed over time by the disease.

Speaker 7 (41:09):
They can be cured.

Speaker 10 (41:10):
You have people with my LOOMA that can be cured.
And so as we progress this technology and make it
more usable, it is more easily usable and more affordable,
it can really transform many fields of medicine, pharmacology to immunology.

Speaker 11 (41:28):
I know you've had an amazing tenure at Astra and
there's sort of an obsession in the UK with your
succession plans and what comes next. You know, not to
say that you're leaving anything.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
We don't want you to.

Speaker 5 (41:39):
We don't want you to go.

Speaker 11 (41:40):
What do you want to accomplish before you and your
tenure at Astra.

Speaker 10 (41:46):
Well, one of the things is that I wanted to
do is have a great team. And I have a
great team.

Speaker 7 (41:51):
That's it.

Speaker 10 (41:51):
I have really a fantastic team. And that's why what
you should worry about my succession. We have a great
team and people who can succeed me.

Speaker 7 (42:00):
So that's I.

Speaker 10 (42:01):
Think one thing, and we need to we constantly try
to improve the team, not only my direct reports, but
they are direct reports and the company as a whole.

Speaker 7 (42:10):
Two is the.

Speaker 10 (42:11):
Second piece is almost unachievable because science is never going
to be stopping. And the more I progress, the get
the older it gets, the more science get exciting, and
the more excited you. I mean, there's no better time
to be in our industry than there's so much innovation,

(42:32):
so much hope to cure diseases that can't be cured today.
And the last thing was really to finish our site
in Cambridge, because I keep joking internality I want to
have the two Cambridges, one in Cambridge, you care when
in Cambridge and Boston.

Speaker 7 (42:47):
But that's for the joke.

Speaker 10 (42:48):
But the most exciting really is the science and the
pursuit of new technologies and new products that will make
a difference and change the future of medicine. So that's
how those things I want to add resk. But I
have to accept that some poe biotoje is going to
catch up with me.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
Unless you create a pill that keeps us going. I'm
kind of even my fingers crossing exactly, GP Ones right,
we think it's going to be curel Pascal, we really
enjoyed this. Thank you so much for having for all
the time. Pascal Sorio. He is astrazenicas chief executive Officer
and of course, Bloomberg Us his own health reporter Madison Mueller,
always a must read on the Bloomberg and at Bloomberg

(43:26):
dot Com.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
on Applecarplay and the Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app,

Speaker 1 (43:44):
Plendy ahead in our second hour of the weekend edition
of Bloomberg Business Week, including the long and winding trip
to FDA approval for one psychedelic treatment. That trip, by
the way, it's continuing.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
Plus while the organization behind Burning Man's Desert Utopia is
now facing an existential financial crisis.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
And jewelry from the Roaring twenties making a comeback, giving
the new Tesla diner a test drive, and the surprising
complexity of Hey Keyfob. It's all in Bloomberg Pursuits later
on this hour.

Speaker 3 (44:13):
First up this Hour. A few weeks ago, Robert F. Kennedy, Junior,
the Secretary of Health and Human Services, said he could
envision approval for psychedelic drugs is treatment for depression and
trauma if clinical studies have been conducted It comes as
psychedelics are making inroads in deep red states like Texas,
where former Trump Cabinet secretary and ex Governor Rick Perry

(44:34):
has thrown his full support behind the effort. That may
have caught the attention of the team over it. They
publicly traded small cap psychedelic company Compass Pathways. They're in
pursuit of FDA approval. Kabirnth is the company's CEO.

Speaker 9 (44:47):
A Compass Pathways where a company in the final stages
of developing synthetic psilocybin as a potential treatment for treatment
resistant depression or what we call patients living with persistent depression.
That's a big problem affecting some three million people in
the US, and it's debilitating. Many of them are unable

(45:09):
to work. The majority will have had some sort of
suicidal thoughts in the course of their depressive illness. So
we're a leading psychedelic company and potentially the closest to
regulatory approval.

Speaker 3 (45:20):
You've used the word potential twice. You said it's a
potential treatment, and you said potentially you're a leading company
there when it comes to FDA approval, is it unproven?

Speaker 9 (45:30):
We have generated robust evidence now from two studies. The
first was published a couple of years ago, and then
just last month we released more data from the first
of our final stage studies. So what can I tell
you about that first safety this we didn't see any
unexpected safety signals in this treatment of patients living with
persistent depression. And secondly, after just a single treatment after

(45:55):
six weeks, we saw a significant reduction in depressive symptom.
And just to emphasize that, because you'll be aware of
the kind of the typical paradigm of antidepressants something you
take daily, this was a single treatment and with the
effect measured after six weeks. Now we have already are two
for two in terms of these trials clinical trials that

(46:18):
we've conducted, but we're continuing to see more evidence generated
first in one of these late stage trials, and second
we have another study ongoing where we're also looking at
the impact potentially of another treatment.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
We should point out that about a month ago in
that study came out, the stock your shares tumbled almost
fifty percent, hitting a record low. What I guess I
want to understand, so it was below what Wall Street expected.
It did meet your goal. From what I understand, your
company goal, but Wall Street was very disappointed. Tell us

(46:52):
how this works. How does one psilocybin treatment kind of
cure depression, persistent depression.

Speaker 9 (47:01):
Psilocymin you can think of as if you like a key,
a key that unlocks a door or a set of
doors in the brain, and while those doors are open,
that enables the patient to work through some of their
fixed negative thinking and potentially have relief from their depressive symptoms.
To do that, there is a profound subjective experience. So

(47:24):
there is a psychedelic experience that lasts six to eight hours,
and as I say, during the course of that, the
drug is working in such a way that it unlocks
these doors and allows the person, the patient to engage
with some of those negative thoughts and potentially, as I say,
get relief from those depressive symptoms. The fact is, as

(47:45):
I say, we've seen, and what's amazing, that one single
treatment can show sustained effects at least through to six
weeks and potentially longer. In our earlier trial, our earlier
clinical study that we did, we saw that for many
patients that were suspen out to twelve weeks.

Speaker 5 (48:01):
What's many?

Speaker 1 (48:02):
How many? Forgive me tim like I'm just curious how many.

Speaker 9 (48:04):
So that was a study of around two hundred and
thirty patients of whom a significant number were on what
we call the active dose of the medication, and what
we saw was a quarter of them had from that
single dose they were actually sustained freer depression out to
twelve weeks. And in this population of people who have
typically tried multiple treatments and for whom very little is

(48:27):
any longer working, that was a remarkable response.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
When patients do take this single dose, what is the
environment that they're in during that six to eight hours,
and are they guided in some way by a therapists
of sorts.

Speaker 9 (48:39):
It's a physically it's a calm, comfortable setting. They have
the option of ice shades, there's music playing, and there
are appropriate safety safeguards in place. Psilocybin is a very
inner directed mechanism, So what actually happens is the patient
has this profound influence, but where there is some in

(49:00):
the room, it's largely silent. There is not directed therapy
in the course of that intervention.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
How do you run an effective clinical trial for a
drug that the experience is such that the person knows
they've taken this drug rather than a placebo. Somebody who
takes a placebo is not going to have a psychedelic reaction.

Speaker 7 (49:20):
To the placebo.

Speaker 9 (49:21):
At Compass, we thought about this before we even started
our studies. So our prior big study, the one I
reference with two hundred and thirty patients, we designed that
in such a way that there was the choice of
three different doses of psilocybin. One was a low dose,
a second was an intermediate dose. And in patients who've

(49:42):
never had this experience before, that's truly confounding in terms
of they cannot tell whether they got a medium dose
or a high dose of that drug. This is important because,
as you say, otherwise, it will be very obvious. But
that design was very effective for that earlier stage study
we did, and we've replicated that in one of our
late stage studies.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
We're talking with Kabir Andathi's chief executive officer of Compass
Pathways here in studio. You keep saying synthetic. What's the
difference between synthetic and naturally occurring?

Speaker 9 (50:10):
So we are manufacturing a pill to the highest standards
of purity, no contamination. We know exactly what is in
the pill. This is a manufactured pill that we are
treating with, so that.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
You know exactly in terms of dosage. Is that what
I'm saying, So if naturally occurring is different.

Speaker 9 (50:26):
Potentially it is naturally occurring whereas well as is synthetic.
So we know exactly what's in it, We know the
exact pill.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
What will it cost?

Speaker 9 (50:34):
It's primiture to speculate on that at the moment we're
still conducting these final stages of our studies.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
But expensive and would it be something I mean, if
you get f to a approval, is it safe to
make the assumption that it would be covered.

Speaker 9 (50:49):
The whole premise for founding Compass Pathways was to enable
that form of broad access. So the reason that the
company has gone through doing these rigorous, robustical studies so
that we is exactly so that we can discuss that
with the FDA potential for regulatory approval, and then if
we're fortunate enough to get there, the chance to negotiate

(51:10):
with both commercial insurers and government pairs. Let's remind ourselves
that these three million people that I referred to, they
are relying on insurers, commercial insurers and government pairs to
actually cover their drugs. I believe we will be able
to demonstrate significant value given how different this is from
other treatments available today in depression.

Speaker 3 (51:31):
Kabir Carol mentioned that the Associated Press reported earlier this
month that RFK Junior recently talked to members of Congress
about psychedelic therapy for depression and trauma. Apart from that,
have you seen any real signs of support for the
administration for this new class of drugs or type of
type of treatment.

Speaker 9 (51:51):
We have had support from the FDA throughout our development process.
We have breakthrough designation.

Speaker 7 (51:56):
Before Robert F.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
Kennedy Junior took over as HJ, we have had.

Speaker 9 (51:59):
A mot cbated and engage agency. We're excited to see
the voices from HHS from Veterans Affairs today suggesting that
they also see the potential for this class, and we're
very happy to work to see how we could potentially
accelerate access while at the same time ensuring that we
continue to generate really good, robust, good evidence that these

(52:21):
are safe and effective.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Talk to us about timeline, though, is it I feel
like we've been I know Blimberg has been reporting on
this class of drugs and treatments, and I think we've
all seen pieces that right for a long time that
for people who or other treatments don't seem to be
making a change for them. So I don't know. Is
it another few years, is it the end of this year,

(52:44):
is it the end of next year? And is it
that the Trump administration could somehow shuttle this through much
more quickly.

Speaker 9 (52:53):
I think there are clearly people in the current administration who,
as I say, see the potential of this. Well, we
want to make sure what we do this right as well,
So we want to make sure we do that in
the right way, with the right rigor and so on.
We are conducting, as I say, the final stages of studies.
We have two ongoing of which the second will wrap
up in the second half of next year. The data

(53:14):
we released last month, though it hasn't yet been reviewed
by the FDA. We have a meeting planned with them
where we'll discuss with them and we'll discuss the potential
for any acceleration of a filing and a regulatory process.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
Do you also think about other usages, whether it's PTSD
and other applications, And I'm just curious where what you
might be exploring in that world.

Speaker 9 (53:34):
Our next priority beyond persistent depression is indeed PTSD. That
is something with very high prevalence, some thirteen million in
the US, for which there are only two very old
drugs approved, and unfortunately recently there have been two advisory
committees recommending against new drugs in that space. So yes,
we see PTSD as a key area. We generated some

(53:55):
data last year and we will be announcing the design
of another late stage trial for PTSD.

Speaker 3 (54:01):
I know the US FDA is the gold standard for
going through the regulatory process to be viewed by the
world as a credible treatment for something, but these days
is it worth going after approval in another country to
try to do this on a smaller scale to prove
that yes, it indeed works.

Speaker 9 (54:21):
We will be exploring approval in a range of countries.
So our studies have been international, US, Canada, Europe as well.
We have taken advice over the years from the European
regulatory authorities. We're a UK based company as well, so
we've been speaking to the MHRA, the regulatory authority in
the UK. So yes, this is a problem, sadly for

(54:42):
patients across the world, and we would look to exploit
it where we can.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
I'm just curious in terms of Big Farmer, have you
had any preliminary discussions with larger, larger pharmaceutical partners interested
in commercialization, co commercialization or distribution.

Speaker 9 (54:57):
What I know is the Big Farmer is tracking this
space closely. And what's been great is to see the
re entry of some big fama back into psychiatry over
the last couple of years. So I know they watched
this space. But we at Compass are determined that we
can do this ourselves and are excited about the opportunity
to bring this potential new treatment to patients who so
clearly needed.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
So no strategic alignment that you would consider. You plan
on doing this alone.

Speaker 9 (55:21):
That's our planted.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
Okay, great staff, stay in touch.

Speaker 12 (55:24):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
Let us sta how things are going. I really appreciate it.
Kiber be well. Kabir Kath, He's chief executive officer of
Compass Pathways, joining us right here in studio.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live
each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple car
Play and the Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.
You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our
flagship New York station. Just say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven
thirty Well.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
Larry Page, Sergei Brin, Eric Schmid are all so called burners.
Mark Zuckerberg is gone, as has Elon Musk. Sam Altman
called the festival quote the most beautiful man made thing
I've ever seen, and suggested it was what a post
agi world can look.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Like, like poetry.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
It's something. Apparently there are a lot of drugs there too.
I'm just I'm just gonna say that we're talking about
Burning Man, and as I've been told by friends who've gone,
I wouldn't get it and I wouldn't like it.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
Friends you've gone, you've never gone.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
Oh I've never gone.

Speaker 7 (56:24):
No.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
Did your friends like it?

Speaker 13 (56:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (56:26):
But he was like, he's like yeah, He's like, you
would hate it. You got to let go, and I
don't let go of anything.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
You didn't like it.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
Anyway, That's enough about me. I want to talk to
Ted Alcore and he's a Bloomberg BusinessWeek freelance contributor. He
wrote about the magazine for the magazine about Burning Man's crisis,
He joins us from New Mexico, it's an existential financial
crisis that the organization is facing. Ted, We're going to
talk about that in a minute, But have you first
Have you been to the Burning Man event in the

(56:54):
Black Rock Desert?

Speaker 8 (56:56):
I have.

Speaker 13 (56:57):
I feel like you know, I'm a big believer in
getting a taste of what you're going to report on
knowing a little bit of what you're writing about.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
Okay, so describe it. Just describe it for people who
haven't been.

Speaker 13 (57:08):
It's hard to put into words, admittedly, and I don't
mean that as hyperbole. It's a very strange, unusual environment
visually and socially. You know, eighty thousand people in the desert,
with a lot of lights, a lot of noise. I've
heard rumored there are some substances there and certainly very
few rules, but you know, interesting things occur out of it,

(57:33):
and you know, obnoxious things too, but it's certainly something
that keeps people going back here after year.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
One of the very few rules, though, is that there's
no money exchanged at the event, apart from the ticket
that you buy ahead of time. And that is the
core fundamental tension that you write about. It has to
do with commerce and money. That's really at the root
of Burning Man's financial woes. It just can't do money.
Explain what's going on.

Speaker 13 (58:00):
Yeah, I mean, basically it's bound to these principles that
kind of emerged from this sort of utopian project of
you know, getting away from the traditional capitalist economy, decommodifying
the event. Everything there is based on gifting. You know,
for nine days, people get by on what they what
they brought, and what other people give them. But the organization,

(58:21):
the nonprofit that runs this, of course has to operate
in the real world where det collectors do come for
your bills. And you know, for a period of time
the event was growing and there was a ton of
interest and ticket sales were covering the costs. But in
the last few years, costs have increased a lot, you know,
economic the inflation, but also you know in terms of

(58:44):
labor and other costs for events like this, and the
ticket prices just haven't kept up, and so the sort
of the business model of bringing this group together is
increasingly in doubt. And it kind of caught up to
them this last year when tickets actually didn't sell out completely,
particularly this higher price trant or tickets, and all of
a sudden, the organization came out of the desert and

(59:07):
was basically twenty million dollars in the hole.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
Wow, that's a lot of money. You write in the
story that back in nineteen ninety anything close to when
they sold anything close to a ticket or what you
could call it was actually a suggestion of ten dollars
in donations and price tickets or the price of tickets
kind of stayed around. I guess that level for a while.
What does it cost today and why aren't people maybe

(59:32):
as interested because I feel like we used to talk
about it a lot here, because a lot of business folks,
certainly in the tech community, used to show up there.
So talk to us about what it costs today and
maybe why interest is waning.

Speaker 13 (59:45):
Yeah, I mean, well, when it started, it was just
a bunch of people driving out into the desert, So
I don't think feel people felt compelled to sort of
make a donation. I dug up this flyer from the
first time that the event was held in Nevada with
as you said, it suggested ten dollars donation. Yeah, last
year the standard price ticket was five hundred and seventy
five dollars. This year it's seven hundred and forty nine dollars.

(01:00:06):
So it's a big difference. And admittedly the event has
gotten a lot more formalized, a lot more you know,
law abiding, I guess, and believe me, there's plenty of
debates over whether which of those costs are necessary. But
if you have to spend three point two million dollars
on porta potties, which is how much they spent last year,
you can imagine the sort of scale of public services

(01:00:27):
that the that the organization has to has to offer
these days. And that gives into a lot of tension
within sort of the burner burning Man community, because, as
you said, there's there's been this diminution in the number
of people that went to Nevada for the event last year,
and it's caused a lot of people to wonder has

(01:00:47):
Burning Man jumped the shark or was it you know,
they had an off year. There was a very well
publicized monsoon that led a lot of people sort of
stranded in mud the year before. You know, is this
just sort of like a temporary thing or a secular trend?
And as I also went on to report, a lot
of people who are who sort of identify as burners

(01:01:10):
or burning Man people aren't going to Nevada anymore. They're
actually going to regional events that have proliferated it around
the world and now there's around one hundred of them.
And in fact, then they pay.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
And they pay a franchise fee.

Speaker 5 (01:01:21):
Right.

Speaker 13 (01:01:23):
No, you know, these events basically if they meet the
goals of Burning Man, they sick to the principles that
provide some monicam of safety. They can use that, they
can get sanctioned and they can exist, and they're offered,
they're asked to give a suggested donation of the organization,
but they don't tie basically the mothership and more people
now are experiencing Burning Man in those places than in

(01:01:45):
Nevada in Black Rock City.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
Okay, Well, speaking of donations, Carol mentioned twenty million dollars
was a lot of money, and for an organization nonprofit
being short, twenty million dollars certainly is. But to somebody
who's one of the wealthiest people in the world, indeed
the wealthiest person in the world. The names of people
who are Burning Men supporters, Larry Page, Sergei Brin, Eric Schmidt,
they're all billionaires. Mark Zuckerberg one of the wealthiest people

(01:02:08):
in the world. Elon Musk is the wealthiest person in
the world. Twenty million dollars would be nothing for some
of these billionaires.

Speaker 7 (01:02:16):
What did the.

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
CEO of the organization tell you about her relationship with
the wealthiest people in the world and who have been
supporters of Burning Men, and how they could or could
not help fill the gap here.

Speaker 13 (01:02:30):
I think it's pretty popularly understood that sort of Silicon
Valley's elites have, you know, are very connected with Burning Man.
But even to me, I was surprised to learn how
fundamental a very small number of those uber wealthy people
have been to the organization. It was in a fundraising
prospectus that was sort of an internal document that I

(01:02:53):
learned that just five individuals have provided the organization two
thirds of its philanthropic funding in the last ten years,
over million dollars. They wouldn't tell me the exact names,
but I think you've mentioned a few most likely, And
as the fundraisers for the organization told me Britch, people
are weird about money, and folks who are willing to

(01:03:15):
go or in fact eager to go out into the
desert spend a lot of money on a flame belching
vehicle to drive around, or, as one I spoke with,
you know, runs a big camp for all this extended
family and friends they give out. They gave out a
kilo of high grade Iranian saffron, you know, which has
some hallucinogenic properties. You know, people are very willing to

(01:03:36):
make those sort of private contributions, but they're a lot
more reticent to support the organization, and so they're trying
to pivot. Basically, the organization, the Burning Man Organization's point
of view is we're like another arts organization. We're like
the met Opera, you know, or American Ballet Theater. We
need people to support us because ticket revenues are alone
aren't going to pay the bills, but get it can

(01:04:00):
Mincing wealthy donors to sort of pitch in for the
more humdrum kind of costs of putting on the event
has been a challenge, and they fell very short of
their twenty million dollar fundraising goal this last year. Last
I heard they'd raised seven million dollars.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
So fundraising not going so well.

Speaker 13 (01:04:16):
So everything hangs in the balance here For the sales
this year, I think, you know, they've tried to be
more firm about asking a higher ticket price and sort
of coaxing people to pitch in what they say is
the true cost. But they're between a little bit of
a rock and a hard place, because the higher they
raise prices, they're losing their lower income adherents, some long

(01:04:37):
time members of their community who kind of make the event,
who build the event, And so if they raise prices
too much, they're going to lose the things that make
that whole event what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:04:47):
We cover the US Open and it's lots of sponsorships,
big well known companies, any companies interested in sponsoring this event.

Speaker 13 (01:04:58):
Well, you know that Burning Man organization has tried to,
i think, adapt to new times. They're trying to interest
a new generation, right of the gen zers who haven't
who have not been attending, who don't know how to
get a ticket or pay a price. They've embraced some
kinds of social media trying to put the word out
about their tickets. But they're really hedged in by again

(01:05:19):
those principles that they're philosophical principles, because if they step
into a realm where it looks like they're commodifying what
they're doing, they get so much blowback from this pretty
intense community. They reposted a TikTok with you know, some
folks kind of like doing shot skis and like trampolining
in baby oil and people lost their minds on Reddit

(01:05:43):
and so yeah, to bring in companies, private companies, or
to seek other sources of revenue, I think is really
anathema to who they are. But you know that limits
their options about how to monetize monetize what they do.

Speaker 3 (01:05:56):
I don't want to give away the whole story. It's
worth the read. It has been among the top red
stories on the Bloomberg terminal since this came out, and
I've had people text me about it. Actually, my dad
loved this story. He's like a I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
You could say, does the where she had gone?

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
No observer a distant observer of burning Man. I think
it's fair to say, I don't want to give the
whole thing away, but can you just tell us a
little bit about a potential solution here? This voluntary burning
Man wealth tax?

Speaker 13 (01:06:25):
Yeah, got to go there. Well. One of the board
members of the burning Man Project who is has told me,
is one of the major donors that supported it farhad Mohet,
who's shold Shopzilla for over a half billion dollars twenty
years ago and has had some other very successful ventures since.

(01:06:45):
You know, he's all in on a more ambitious vision
for Burning Man, and his view is that wealthy people
like himself should pay a bigger share. And he made
this amazing website which he calls the Burning Man Principal
Pause Calculate, which is essentially he says, if you go
to Burning Man for nine days and you know, don't work,
and you just play your capital, your money should go

(01:07:07):
with you. It shouldn't go with you. It should actually
take that time off. And so the interest that your
wealth generates in that nine days, you should contribute to
the Burning Man organization. And if you put in your
wealth and his calculator and you're like me freelance journalists income,
you find wow, based on my income or my wealth,
I don't know anything. But he put in for me,

(01:07:28):
you know, okay, well you got one billion dollars. Oh
you have ten bills, Oh you have one hundred and
fifty billion dollars. And he's thinking about somebody specific, and
he says like, this guy needs to give one point
three billion dollars to the Burning Man organization. And I
was like, well, that exceeds their expenses. What are you
going to do the rest? And he said, we'll flip
it on its head, we'll give the money out to

(01:07:49):
all the burners as a universal burner income, you know,
and then we're really living our values and so you know,
Apparently a few people he's spoken with about are enthusiastic scores.
This is a voluntary I would kind of describe it
as a wealth tax, but it's suggested donation going back
to their roots and we'll see if it takes hold.

Speaker 5 (01:08:09):
What was he smoking?

Speaker 7 (01:08:10):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
Sorry, No, I'm just saying this, Saffron.

Speaker 6 (01:08:13):
I think.

Speaker 13 (01:08:14):
I don't know.

Speaker 12 (01:08:14):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
Was it read the story, reading the story, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
Anyway, unbelievable read. As Tim mentioned, it has been among
the most read stories throughout the week. Ted Alcorn, He's
contributor at Bloomberg business Week. Check out a story about
burning Man Festival facing its extential existential financial crisis. It's
an incredible read.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
on Applecarplay and the Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app,

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
It's not for Bloomberg pursuits. And this week it's the
Jewelry special featured in the magazine, out on newstands later
this month and already available online on the Bloomberg and
at Bloomberg dot Com and tim It's all about the
one hundred years of Art Deco influence. I love the
history that we find out about kind of how it
all came to be. And so we're going to get
into that jewelry that's over a century old, that worth

(01:09:09):
millions of dollars.

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
Here with more is Bloomberg contributing a jewelry rider and
founder of La Patiala, the luxury encyclopedia, Kristin Shirley. Back
with us. Kristin, I want to start with some history
and definitions here what is art Deco and just give
us some background.

Speaker 12 (01:09:24):
Sure, So the Art Deco period started in the early
nineteen hundreds and really crystallized in nineteen twenty five at
the big exhibition in Paris for Art Deco jewelry. There
are a lot of different styles, but what they share
is graphic, linear design, few colors, but bold colors when
they're used, and the use of diamonds, black enamel and honor.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
What did it come to be? Like? I always think about,
you know, trends and waves fashion art jewelry, Like, what
is it like? Take us back to nineteen twenty five.

Speaker 12 (01:09:56):
Sure, so this was a reaction to the very floral,
swirlly motifs of the periods that the late eighteen hundreds.
So these new geometric motifs were sort of the opposite
of that. These designers were looking at modernity, and modernity
to them was strict geometric lines. We were entering the

(01:10:17):
industrial era with you know, Ford assembly lines and new
buildings and tanks. And unfortunately, World War One came in
and sort of put a stop to this design period,
and then it picked it up at the back of
the war, and then the exhibition happened in nineteen twenty five,
once the europe had had a chance to recover.

Speaker 3 (01:10:39):
I think a lot of people are really familiar with
our Deco buildings, especially here in New York, maybe the
Chrysler Building or the Empire State Building. But jewelry before
reading your piece was kind of new to me. It
didn't occur to me that the Art Deco movement extended
toward jewelry.

Speaker 12 (01:10:55):
Yes, our Deco jewelry is actually one of the most
enduring and timeless jewelry trends that they there is no
matter what year the pieces are from, they really have
this ultra modern look. So in our story, we combined
vintage pieces from the early nineteen hundreds with pieces that
were made this year, and I think looking at them,
you can't really tell what's vintage and what's new because

(01:11:17):
it still looks so fresh. And it's one of the
very few periods that you can say that about.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
That is so true. And it's funny because I had
to go back and forth. I'm like, Oh, that's new stuff,
which is fascinating. Christin take us back though, to November
that auction at Christie's, because I'm always curious about too.
Why you guys decide to talk about this right now.
It sounds like all of a sudden pieces have been
coming up for auction and investors, buyers, they're really interested

(01:11:42):
in them.

Speaker 12 (01:11:44):
Yes, I think art deco is always enduring. But there
was a huge collection of a private family collection of
jewelry that came up for auction and Christie's in November,
and the piece is sold for exceptional sums, you know,
two to three times and many amounts, and that's because
the provenance was secure. It had been in the same

(01:12:05):
family ever since it was commissioned since the nineteen twenties,
which is very rare, and have massive, massive gemstones that
you sometimes can't find today because the mines have then depleted.
So when we were looking at the jewelry world this year,
we said, what is the biggest story, And for me,
it was that art Deco started one hundred years ago
really and is still as desirable today. Someone spent four

(01:12:27):
point four million francs on a single necklace. That's pretty wild.

Speaker 1 (01:12:31):
Well, all right, what was that necklace?

Speaker 12 (01:12:35):
It was a beautiful Cartier necklace and it had about
one hundred and thirty carrots of diamonds and it was
just very strict geometric, absolutely stunning, a perfect example of
Art Deco style.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
I think I have a version of that in rhinestones.

Speaker 5 (01:12:50):
We're just not the same thing.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
No, but it's really just I mean, you look at
something like that, it's timeless. I also love I mean,
walk us through some of the other pieces and also
kind of go back to some old Hollywood icons many
decades ago, who also kind of show show case pieces.

Speaker 12 (01:13:09):
Yes, if we're looking at Hollywood in the nineteen twenties
and nineteen thirties, these Starletts were saying, I want to
wear Art Deco jewelry. I don't care what era of
the movie is taking place. And so we see it
in a Cleopatra movie, which the Costume Archives at Paramount
described as the most Art Deco movie of all time.
You wouldn't think Cleopatra would be wearing Art Deco jewelry

(01:13:29):
and clothing, but it was just so avant garde and
of the moment that that's how they dressed her. And
it's really an interesting thing to see. Then if we're
looking at the actual pieces that we shot, we shot
a mix of vintage from the nineteen twenties and nineteen
thirties from makers including Chomet and Bulgarie, and then we
shot modern pieces from independent designers like Passen, Adam Neely

(01:13:55):
and Jessica McCormack, and the top houses of the day
like being Cleifan, Ourpels, Buchmarl and Cartier.

Speaker 3 (01:14:02):
What about now in sort of everyday jewelry and the
influence of Art Deco one hundred years ago on designers today.

Speaker 12 (01:14:11):
Well, I think people would be surprised that a lot
of the jewelry they're wearing is Art Deco inspired. If
you're wearing something that's geometric. It's got white diamonds and
black enamel. That is quintessential art Deco right there. Anything
with like a cabs and gemstone inside a geometric setting
also buried art deco. And we see these designers pulling

(01:14:33):
inspiration from all sorts of Art Deco pieces. For example,
Fernando Storage that we featured in the story, his pieces
were inspired by the Chrysler Building and New York City's
iconic Art Deco buildings. So designers are bringing in Art
Deco influences from outside of the jewelry world too.

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
I have to say the airrings are amazing. Folks should
go online and check it out or go to the
Bloomberg And my understanding on all of this or a
lot of those prices are upon request unless news and
there are a lot of prices upon request, So as
my mom used to say, if you have to ask. Kristin,
thanks so much. It's an incredible spread and read the
jewelry special here in pursuits. Kristin Shirley, thank you so much.

(01:15:13):
Bloomberg's contributing jewelry writer and founder of Patilla joining us here.
All right, art Deco matters we got that and so too,
it seems tim keyfobs, especially when you take into account
what goes into them.

Speaker 3 (01:15:26):
Yeah, I learned that the hard way. A couple of
years ago. I lost the humble key fob for my
twenty eighteen subrew outback and it was many, many, many
hundreds of dollars to replace it. I was like, this
is insane, it's insane. I actually think it was like,
not cool, cool, it's not cool.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
No, they're crazy. We're always like in our house, don't
lose the keyfob. With more on that.

Speaker 3 (01:15:49):
I got a guy though, Now you got a guy?

Speaker 2 (01:15:51):
A guy?

Speaker 3 (01:15:51):
Yeah, Timmy's like, you have a guy for every Yeah
I didn't. Let's just say I didn't go with the
official SUBREU one. I got a guy. He showed up.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
You maybe from California, but you have definitely become a
New York. All right, let's get to it, and we're
al just going to get a little bit into her
recent drive by with the Tesla Diner. Bloombergotto columnist Hannah
Elliott joining us. Now, Hannah, good to have you here.
Let's talk key fobs first of all, because I think
we just think they're this silly little thing, but apparently
there's a lot that goes into them, especially for a

(01:16:19):
luxury car or higher end car.

Speaker 6 (01:16:21):
Hi, guys, that's exactly right. And Tim, that was so
not cool. I'm very upset by your tale of your
lost key fob.

Speaker 3 (01:16:28):
Well, I called the super dealer and I think they
were said like it'd be in the many hundreds of
dollars to replace it. So I looked at Reddit and
I found that you can actually call a like a
special type of locksmith and they can bring you an
aftermarket one that works just as well. That was like,
it was like one hundred and fifty two hundred bucks.

Speaker 6 (01:16:44):
That's a great hack. We should all take a queue.
That's a great hack. And Carol to your point, Yeah,
key fobs are something that we don't really think about
until we have to, like if we lose it. But
actually it is kind of a calling card for your
car because it is the first and primary way that
you are going to interact with the vehicle. Actually, and

(01:17:07):
automakers do know this. They've kind of come to embrace it,
embrace it in recent years, especially the higher end, like
I'm thinking of Bentley for instance, which has this amazing,
pretty heavy sort of ovoid key fob that has this
really cool burling on it and this Bentley b on
the top and that it that is on the top

(01:17:29):
specifically so that when you leave the key like on
a bar or on a table in a restaurant, it's
sort of a low key, humble brag that, oh I've
got a Bentley.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
Which really low key.

Speaker 6 (01:17:39):
Maybe not that low y, maybe not that.

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
The other thing that was interesting to like some people,
I love what you talk about the BMW key fob
that like kind of went maybe too far.

Speaker 6 (01:17:51):
Yeah, you know again, this is sort of a new
era of exploration in the key fob segment, and we
got a credit BMW. They really they shot for the
moon on this. In about twenty fifteen, they developed this
display key, which was this really big, oversized fob with

(01:18:11):
a screen on it and it had a ton of function.
Is literally kind of like an iPhone, a small iPhone.
But it was a six hundred and seventy dollars option
and it is no longer offered. It was discontinued in
twenty twenty two because of low consumer interest. So that
was a no. That was a no.

Speaker 3 (01:18:32):
How did Cadillac and General Motors kind of mess up
with their high end competitor.

Speaker 6 (01:18:40):
This is an interesting thing too. This is a this
is a miss. And we recently drove the Cadillac Celestic,
which is their Rolls Royce competitor, and I actually did
like that vehicle. But the one thing that was a
big miss is the key was not special. It was
a plastic key, a thick leather sheath that was the

(01:19:02):
same key that you would get in any other Cadillac,
And for a car that is supposed to be going
up against, for instance, a Rolls Royce, the key just
felt like a total flop. It did not have any
of the signature or subtle details and just touch points

(01:19:23):
that the car itself had. It just was a plastic fob.
It was kind of a dud. Yeah, it's exactly so
these things do matter. On the other side of things,
Lotus with their electric suv that Eleetre has developed this
thing they're calling the pebble, which is a fob, but
it's shaped kind of like a guitar pick, and it's small,
it's light, it's very simple. They told me that they

(01:19:46):
developed it so that if you have it in your pocket,
it's not going to ruin the line. Of your clothing
or your suit, which I thought was really cool.

Speaker 1 (01:19:53):
So you know, is it and some looking forward?

Speaker 5 (01:19:58):
Is there a point where it's just.

Speaker 1 (01:19:59):
Not going to matter because we're not going to need anything.

Speaker 6 (01:20:01):
Honestly, I think we are going in that direction. Of
course we can't, you know. Of course, for instance, Tesla
and Rivian have like credit card sized quote unquote keys
that you can use to unlock the vehicle. Also, of
course we have apps that now basically can control a
lot of vehicles from starting limp to control and climate, audio,

(01:20:22):
windows settings, everything that is great. I mean it's not
great if you if you lose your phone, or your
phone's dead, or you break your phone, so there's it's
not perfect. But to your point, Carol, I think we
are moving in that direction.

Speaker 12 (01:20:36):
All right.

Speaker 1 (01:20:36):
Well I only said that because you said that in
your story, and that's how you can do. All right,
tam go.

Speaker 3 (01:20:42):
Let's move in the direction of food, because Hannah, you
usually get to write about cars, but sometimes you get
to write about burgers and grilled cheeses and chili fries.
And you went to the recent Tesla diner and know
you were not allowed to park your own rolls. Royce
the Tesla.

Speaker 6 (01:21:00):
Diner Tesla parking only. They do. They do have eighty superchargers,
which is one of the highest concentrations of superchargers in
the country. There are a few that are bigger, like
out in the desert on the way to Vegas I've seen.
But yeah, this is Tesla parking only, although they will
valet your car or you can street park like I did.

(01:21:21):
So how was it, Well, it was really an experience.
Let me tell you. If you are a Tesla owner
or a Tesla fan, I think you will find it
to be really fun. It was really different. I win
in not knowing what to expect. I will say I

(01:21:43):
have driven by many times in the past few days
and seen a line of people around the block, so
there is a lot of excitement about this. The diner
itself looks very jetson zy. It's round, it has neon lights.
They're playing you know, movies on big screens. It's like
a drive in actually, so there's a lot to see.

(01:22:06):
The food itself was better than I expected. It was
developed by Eric Greenspan, who was a Cordon Blue trained chef.
He's had many successful restaurants here in La. He's developed
his own style of New American cheese. So he is
really well respected and I actually ran into him at
the diner. He was really nice enough to order for me.

(01:22:30):
We got an array of sandwiches, including a tunamel, a
grilled cheese, a hamburger, some chili cheese fries, a coffee,
and the food was good. Now, I admit I don't
often eat chili cheese fries, but Eric developed this particular
Wagu beef style chili cheese fry that he told me

(01:22:53):
reminded him of when he was in high school and
he would have a cheat day on his diet and
he would always eat cheese fries chili cheese fries. So
which was and they were good. They were good. They
were very like down home comfort.

Speaker 1 (01:23:05):
No seal it on the menu.

Speaker 6 (01:23:07):
You know, I might have missed that, but none that
I saw. The whole idea here is it's an American
drive and diner like the kind you saw in the
fifties and sixties.

Speaker 1 (01:23:16):
Is it gonna make people buy a Tesla?

Speaker 6 (01:23:18):
Oh, that's a good question. I don't think so. I
don't think so. This feels to me more like Tesla
is celebrating the people who are already in love with
the brand, and I do think that is really admirable.
I you know, I love the idea of an automotive
brand spending a lot of money and resources and time
to celebrate its owners. And Tesla has extremely dedicated owners,

(01:23:41):
especially considering everything that the company itself has been through
in recent months. You know, it's really suffered in terms
of sales and revenue and profits and earnings and all that.
So it's great for people who lef Tesla. And honestly,
I would go back and get a burger if the
line was if I didn't have to wait in line.
That's really the The line now is really long.

Speaker 3 (01:24:02):
What about the Optimist robot? Isn't that supposed to make
things move more smoothly?

Speaker 6 (01:24:06):
Yeah, well Optimism was not present my friend and I
did ask, and I was told that, uh, optimis is
on a break.

Speaker 3 (01:24:16):
I thought that was a whole point of robots, is
they didn't need to take breaks. You don't need to
pay them, they don't need to sleep. Come on, I know.

Speaker 6 (01:24:21):
And I did also ask, now was somebody else operating
optimists you know remotely? And I got a no comment,
So you know that that might have been brought out
to sort of generate some buzz at the start of
the at the opening, but no, unfortunately Optimist was not there.

Speaker 1 (01:24:41):
Yeah I can't, yeah, but.

Speaker 6 (01:24:43):
I would say, honestly, the sleeper hit of the diner
menu is the tuna melt. I yeah, like, not something
I would normally go for, but it was great.

Speaker 1 (01:24:54):
We're heading to the West Coast for a work trip
in the falls. Maybe yeah, maybe take a week? Wait,
can we take away Mode diner?

Speaker 6 (01:25:03):
That's a great idea.

Speaker 3 (01:25:04):
I love that they would not. As long as Elon
doesn't see you, I think you'd be okay, limeblt you
did ask?

Speaker 6 (01:25:10):
I did ask Eric, has Elon been by it? And
he said that he had been. But I feel like
we would have heard about it, so maybe he went
by before it open.

Speaker 12 (01:25:18):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:25:20):
Yeah, we'll keep an eye on.

Speaker 9 (01:25:21):
It right Oh.

Speaker 3 (01:25:22):
Thanks to Hannah Elliott, a Bloomberg News auto columnist, also
diner expert and knows everything about Keith Fobs.

Speaker 1 (01:25:29):
Got to say that story. Both those stories are fun,
fun reads. That wraps up our weekend edition of Bloomberg
Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Thank you so much for
joining us.

Speaker 3 (01:25:37):
Be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business Week Daily Monday
through Friday, starting at two pm Wall Street Time, on
Bloomberg TV, Bloomberg Radio, and on Sirius XM Channel one
twenty one. You can also listen to us on Apple
car Play and Android Auto Free in the Apple app
Store or on Google Play.

Speaker 1 (01:25:51):
You can also watch our daily broadcast on YouTube. Just
search Bloomberg Podcasts and We're Summa cast on Bloomberg Originals
available at Bloomberg dot com, Slash Originals, and streaming patforms
including Roku, Amazon fireTV, SEMs On TV Plus and more.
I'm Tim Stunnobeck and I'm Carol Masser. Have a great
and safe weekend everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:26:08):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday
afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com,
the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App.
You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube

(01:26:29):
and always on the Bloomberg terminal

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Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - August 1st, 2025

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Tim Stenovec

Carol Massar

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