Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - August 23rd, 2025 - Bloomberg Businessweek

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Bloomberg Business
Week Daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders
stay ahead with insight on the people, companies, and trends
shaping today's complex economy, plus global business finance and tech

(00:23):
news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast
with Carol Masser and Tim Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Hi, everyone, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Week Weekend Podcast.
Carol is off this week. Bloomberg News cross asset reporter
Emily Graffeo joining me for most of our conversations over
this past week, and it was a week where companies
were still reporting for the most recent quarter, more than
a dozen retailers reporting earnings. Geopolitics also front and center,
as President Donald Trump hosted European leaders on Monday to

(00:55):
discuss an end to the Russia Ukraine War, and then
of course, the Kansas City FEDS annual gathering in Jackson
Hole put monetary policy front and center again for the
latest head on over to Bloomberg dot com. With the
backdrop of monetary policy and how the Fed is planning
to react to this economy, this hour, we take a
look into consumer spending in this new world of tariffs. Also,

(01:18):
we'll look into President Donald Trump's new brand of economic
state craft. Plus the Finance Minister of New Zealand visits
our studio to discuss US trade, the country's golden visas,
and its economic outlook. All that to come, We begin
with the batch of news from retailers this past week.
Home Depot is raising its prices due to tariffs after

(01:39):
previously saying it didn't plan to target, named a new
CEO in hopes of breaking its sales slump, and Walmart
profit missed expectations for the first time in three years.
It overshadowed higher sales. It's just a handful of the
companies that reported this past week. For the roundup of
all things retail, Bloomberg News Equities reporter Nora Melinda and

(01:59):
I Lee, Don Jen Bartasha's Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Retail Staples
and packaged food analysts, and Bloomberg News Consumer reporter Jenet Newman.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
I think overall that the US consumer is actually doing okay.
I think there's there's a note of caution looking forward
because a lot of what's been sold in the in
the last couple of quarters price price increases has not
hit those goods, and so there's concern about when price
increases really do start to flow through, what how consumers

(02:29):
will will react. I mean, Walmart did have a profit
miss that's very rare, that had to do with some claims,
but they actually raised their sales guidance for the year
which was already which was already pretty high. So that
shows that there they do have some confidence in the
consumer in the year in the year ahead.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Hey, Jen, come on in here, because we spoke with
the CFO of Kava, Trisia Toliver joined us and she
said there's this fluid macroeconomic environment that these are her words.
She said, it creates a fog for consumers and during
those times they tend to step up off the gas.
Would you say that that's the view you have at
Bloomberg Intelligence about the consumer, that it's foggy and as

(03:07):
a result of that fog, consumers are pulling back a
little bit.

Speaker 4 (03:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (03:11):
I think that's a pretty good insight. You know, when
we look at the consumer and you look at sort
of the bigger numbers in terms of the economy, the
consumer is hanging in there. But the consumer has been
conservative for a long time. It really started when we
had high food inflation, and as soon as that started
to roll back, we had pressure from tariffs, and there's

(03:34):
just uncertainty. And when that consumer is uncertain, they still
buy the things that they need to buy. They're still
going on vacation, but they're just being a little bit
more prudent. And until we have a little bit more clarity,
we're not expecting that to really change.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Jen, what is the bifurcation that you're seeing at Bloomberg
Intelligence when it comes to consumers those at the higher
end of the income spectrum versus what those at the
lower end of the income spectrum are doing. And we've
talked a lot for years about the K shaped recovery,
and it kind of sounds like we're still there. Maybe
it's even more pronounced.

Speaker 5 (04:07):
It's pretty pronounced. You know, lower income consumers continue to
be pressured. When you look at retailers that really have
a lot of those customers in their base, and that
would be the Walmart's of the world, it would be
Dollar Generals of the world. You know, you see that
the spending and the average ticket and the traffic into
those stores in some instances is a little bit pressured.

(04:29):
At the same time, you know, higher income households are
almost kind of going along as normal. They're still seeking value,
but they're taking advantage of all the value that's being
offered out to the broader economy and they're saving money
that way. So it's an interesting thing to track and
how those two different parts of the consumer base are

(04:50):
really behaving a little bit differently.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
And everybody loves the deal, right and Walmart has actually,
you know, to what Jen's saying, Walmart has has been
hitd from everyone loving a deal and is attracting increasingly
more higher income consumers and that's part of what's helped
boost its its sales. And that's been a strategy. You
know a lot of those consumers went to Walmart during
the pandemic to get groceries and then have increasingly kind

(05:15):
of bought more and more. Walmart is stepping up, you know,
it's clothing offering and so that's also you know, that's helping,
that's helping Walmart.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Are those consumers sticky with Walmart?

Speaker 3 (05:24):
Yes, they are, They are sticky, and that's been that's
been part of the that's been part of Walmart's success
because they go to the grocery, they go in, they
get the groceries, and then they see, oh, actually, like
Walmart has great genes. Now Walmart has knows that these consumers.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
That was an American Eagle reference, wasn't it.

Speaker 6 (05:39):
Know.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
We're not gonna definitely, we're not gonna get We're not
going again talking.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Okay, not moving on, sorry, go ahead, chapter, next chapter.
And that that also is you know, Walmart has been
seizing on that and Target has been missing out. Target
has not been doing well. They obviously just appointed a
new seat. He's an insider.

Speaker 6 (06:01):
He was an amazing story. It is an amazing story.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
It is an amazing story.

Speaker 7 (06:06):
But the market's not that impressed though. That's what we're seeing.
But I mean, you also come for companies like sday Lauder.
We talked about Walmart. Of course, we know that has
a lot of those consumers staples opportunities there. But when
we look at Esta latter and a lot of competitors
like that on the more luxury end, what are the
contours of consumer spending in that space?

Speaker 6 (06:25):
Right now?

Speaker 3 (06:25):
You know, Beauty overall is doing okay again, kind of
still slowing down a little bit, but still writing a
post pandemic boom when we all got into you know,
lots of different lots of different beauty beauty products at
one at one time. But Stay Lauder is not doing
that well. So that's kind of like even though the
consumer right now is okay, a little bit conservative, like

(06:46):
like Jen said, but Walmart is doing overall really well.
Target is not doing great. That's also because of differences
with the with the two companies and how they're run. Similarly, Loreal,
huge beauty company, obviously is actually doing really well. Stay
Latter No. Their sales in the most recent fiscal year
that just ended, we're down eight percent, and those are
kind of internal internal problems that they've been that they've
been dealing with.

Speaker 7 (07:06):
Jennifer, I want to bring you back into the conversation here.
Are we seeing any sense of consumer fatigue right now,
especially when we know inflation is super high and if
you were to ask the average person, they do think
that things are kind of tight right now.

Speaker 5 (07:21):
I don't know that we're seeing a lot of fatigue.
I think people have sort of adjusted to what is
sort of almost a new normal, and that's a little
bit post food inflation. They've seen prices come down in
different ways, especially on the grocery side and some of
the general merchandise, like entry level fashion, and so I
think that gives the perception of a little bit of relief.

(07:43):
So I don't think people are really pulling back anymore,
but they're not also simultaneously really loosening the purse strings.
It seems like we've sort of settled into kind of
this new normal, this new normal range. One other note
on Walmart that I think is pretty interesting. When you're
talking about retention, you can't not talk about Walmart Plus,

(08:06):
which is a huge loyalty program and they're generating a
lot of incremental revenue off of it, and people who
get in there, they keep renewing, and it just locks
in loyalty and locks in spending, and we're seeing that
across all income cohorts.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Wait, wait, can you talk a little bit more about that?
And I think I think what this is not an
ad for American Express, but I will say if you
have a certain American Express card, you can get a
free membership to the program.

Speaker 8 (08:31):
Which one do you want to.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
I think it's the Platinum card. I believe, Yeah, I
believe that's what it is. Thanks for calling you actually.

Speaker 5 (08:39):
Just completed a survey of one thousand Walmart Plus subscribers,
and what's really interesting is that eighty three percent of
Walmart Plus subscribers also have an Amazon Prime membership, but
that doesn't stop them from maximizing their Walmart Plus value.
And so I think that it really illustrates how Walmart
has very uniquely carved out a service and a recurring

(09:03):
revenue stream that is really pretty remarkable. And that the
fact that a lot of the people who are in
that program are making digital orders, that's driving their digital
revenue for advertising, and it's really adding to just the
overall flywheel of Walmart. So there's a lot of really
interesting things happening that are really stemming from some of

(09:24):
these intelligent decisions they made maybe five years ago to
introduce that Walmart Plus program.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
That's a fascinating thing to hear because it was always
sort of an owl also around when it comes to
Amazon Prime. So it's interesting to hear that. Jen Janette,
I want to bring you back in here and talk
a little bit about Target. You mentioned the CEO change
the news we got earlier this week. You said investors
didn't love it. A lot of the conversation around Target
over the last couple of years, well actually really over

(09:51):
the last year or so, has had to do with
backlash against DEI efforts. And to what extent in your
view that actually a affected company sales or the image
of what that looked like for consumers. What do we
know about this?

Speaker 3 (10:04):
The company executives at Target have said that the backlash,
like black black consumers not shopping at Target, has had
an impact on sales. They have not quantified that, and
so we don't really know. These kinds of boycotts don't
often have a huge effect, but they have said that
it had that it had an effect. And I think
also more more importantly, even in some of the analyst

(10:26):
notes and you hear investors talking about the staff at Target,
we've had some reporting it's nearly sixty percent of staff
at Target are people of color, and so the staff
itself has been, you know, upset by everything that's been
going on with with Target pulling back on DEI, and
that is that is something that some people think is

(10:48):
kind of behind some of this tumult with with staff.
Job in retail is so difficult, and you need especially
great especially now, and you need great staff, and you
need people who are going to stick around and they
know how the stores work, so that has also so
been a problem, whereas you don't hear those same complaints
from staff at Walmart, for example. Excuse me. They've also
been increasing the salaries that they're paying their their top employees,

(11:12):
so that is also an issue at Target. Is the
issue with staff.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Well, we love talking retail and the consumer with both
of you. Thank you so much for joining us. Jenet Newman,
Bloomberg News Consumer Reporter, and Jennifer bartashas Bloomberg Intelligence Consumer
Team Leader and senior Retail Staples and Package of Food analysts.
Check out Janette's reporting on the Bloomberg Terminal and Jennifer's
research on the Bloomberg Ternaminal. Also, of course, at Bloomberg
dot com.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast. Catch
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Speaker 2 (11:55):
He didn't campaign on it, it wasn't even broached during
his first administration. He criticized his predecessor for it, but
this month President Donald Trump made clear He's willing to
use the full force of the US government to directly
intervene in corporate matters to achieve his economic and foreign
policy goals, so writes Bloomberg Economic Statecraft reporter Joe Doe

(12:18):
on the Trump administration taking a more active role in
US companies seeking to collect fifteen percent of the money
generated from sales of AI chips to China by Nvidia
and AMD, the US government potentially taking a stake in Intel,
a golden share in US Steel, and a DoD investment
in a rare Earth's firm. This has investors, lawmakers, and

(12:38):
trade experts raising concern and in some cases optimism. Joe
Doe joined us with more, Yeah.

Speaker 8 (12:45):
You have the President of the United States in his
entire administration, which by the way, has a number of
Wall Street pros in it, saying why don't we use
the full force of the United States federal government to
take direct involvement in corporations that we deem crucial and
central to national security? Tim, I mean, I know you

(13:06):
and I have sat here many times and talked about
the imp materials deal and where that stands today. I
mean the AMD Nvidia fifteen percent cut of Chinese AI
chip sales that goes to the federal government. I mean
that's massive. And then now the reporting that we've had
from Bloomberg for the past five days that and now

(13:27):
confirm by how this administration is looking to take an
equity stake in Intel. I mean like to say, this
is off the beaten path.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
I mean under.

Speaker 8 (13:36):
States just how wild this is and how new this
is even to Washington policy pros and Wall Street pros
who've been doing these jobs for decades.

Speaker 9 (13:46):
We'll talk to us about that, Joe. What makes these
actions so unprecedented and so unlike different kinds of you know,
government intervention in companies that we've seen before in the
United States.

Speaker 8 (13:58):
I mean, if you think about it, we can look
back to the financial crisis where we saw the bailouts
of the banks, of AIG of GM. I mean, these
were under extraordinary circumstances, right There was real fear in
the federal government and in the markets that you could
have a complete collapse of the financial system if the
US government didn't step in to provide liquidity to the market.

(14:21):
This is different. This is companies that they're not on
the verge of bankruptcy that were taking equity stakes in
and then we're taking cuts of sales supposedly. I mean,
we'll see how they follow through on it. Typically, what
we have seen, even with the Trump administration the first
summer around was well, let's do things through trade, right,
Let's use three oh one terraffs, which are country level tariffs.

(14:44):
Let's do two thirty two terraffts, which are sectoral tearfs.
These were written into US law even though they hadn't
been used in years or sometimes decades, they were there,
and they had been used before. I think this is
starting to push the boundaries of those legal questions.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
So did the word nationalism or nationalizing companies come up
at all in the reporting here? And in the folks
you spoke to, You go into some detail about the
so called Chinese model, but there's also you know, Argentina
comes to mind with nationalization in the past.

Speaker 8 (15:15):
Yeah, totally, Tim When you talk to people, and again,
this isn't just like a couple of guys on Wall
Street or like one guy you know sitting in a
law firm. This is this is across the spectrum, and
you hear over and over again uncharted territory, Chinese model,
and like you said the question of nationalizing companies, like,

(15:35):
I had one source say, listen, there are ways the
federal government can step in and direct the actions of companies,
and you can do that without taking a stake in
the company. You start doing these things, and it does
spread worry, right, It spreads worry among investors who say, well,
wait a minute, if you're going to choose national champions,

(15:56):
that you're just going to wake up one morning and
say we're taking a stake in this because we think
it's critical to US national security. That changes fundamentals of
making bets on companies, right. I mean, one person mentioned
to me, you have high valuations already. What happens if
you have the federal government starting to get involved with
some of these these high valuation companies. I mean, those

(16:17):
are the kind of conversations I was having that really
became the idea behind America Inc. And seeing for the
first time President of the United States taking direct action
in corporate America.

Speaker 9 (16:30):
Yeah, what have investors said so far? I mean I'm
thinking specifically about Intel on like whether this is good
for the company or not.

Speaker 8 (16:41):
I think when you look at all this, we are
in what a number of these people told me, which
is uncharted territory. Is it good? Well, some people would say,
listen to compete with China, because let's be clear, one
of the things that the White House said to us
in our story was, you know, semiconductors rare or steel.
These are national security issues long have been for the
President of the United States. Those often also happen to

(17:03):
be issues that are directly tied to China, something that
the administration sees itself in direct competition with. Steel has
been an oversupply for a long time out of China.
That's one of the reasons the President moved in his
first term to put up trade barriers on steel. Now,
this time around, the trade war between the United States
and China centers around chips and permanent magnets, and the

(17:26):
permanent magnet story is already told. MP Materials gets a
four hundred million dollars preferred equity stake from the DoD.
That's what you really have to start looking at, which
is like, what else does the President of the United
States consider central to this national security question? In particular,
maybe with China.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
That's exactly where I was going to go. So based
on your reporting, the folks you spoke to what's next here?
We have US Steel, we have MP materials, right, we
have Intel, we have news around AMD and Nvidia. What
do investors need to be prepared for the next shoot
a drop?

Speaker 8 (18:00):
I don't know, Tim, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Would it be like a do autos going and get
on your radar at all?

Speaker 8 (18:07):
It's hard to tell.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Listen.

Speaker 8 (18:09):
Bloomberg has reported, particularly around the MP Materials deal. We've
reported that IMP Materials looked like something was being lined
up by the DoD and it wouldn't just be the
only one.

Speaker 4 (18:22):
Some of the.

Speaker 8 (18:22):
Reporting we've had is that the Intel situation may not
just be a one off, right, Like the things I
have heard are this administration is keen on taking home
run swings and not just on one thing, right. So
I think at this point the market is looking into
the question that you're asking, Tim, like what is next?
I think it's hard to know what's next. I mean,

(18:44):
so much of this, it's important to say, is so fluid.
The conversations are just ongoing, and what they might be
talking about today might completely change in the next twenty
four hours.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
Joe Doe, we know whatever comes you will be on it.
It's one of the most read stories on the Blueloomberg terminal.
President Trump targets America Inc. With a new brand of
US statecraft. Joe Doe is Economic Statecraft Reporter.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
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Speaker 2 (19:27):
And we stick with Joe Doe and the race for
Greenland's riches. We've been hearing a lot about rareth minerals,
you know, the critical materials used in everything from missile
defense systems to smartphones, and now they're at the heart
of renewed US interest in Greenland, where some of the
world's richest untapped deposits can be found. The Trump administration
has made no secret of its geopolitical curiosity about the island,

(19:49):
and the minerals may be a big part of why.
To break it all down. Bloomberg Cross Asset reporter Isabel
Lee and I were joined by Joe Doe, Bloomberg News
Economic Statecraft reporter, who visited the icy island.

Speaker 8 (20:01):
This was really the thesis I wanted to dig into, right.
I mean, we spent the first three months of the Trump,
the Trump two point zero administration, focusing on let's buy
Greenland again, let's take it over. We're not going to
rule out military force. And you know, I'd been talking
to people kind of in the background who said, you know,
what's really being discussed here is the national security and

(20:25):
the potential for investments within the island. So I met
up with Drew Horn, who was a former Trump administration official.
He worked in the DoD Defense Department and the Defense
excuse me, the DOE, the Energy Department. He was on
Trump's team in twenty nineteen that was tasked with figuring
out a way to own Greenland.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
I guess.

Speaker 8 (20:49):
And so where we came down on this was we
took this trip with Drew to kind of see this
behind the scenes of like trying to invest in Greenland.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
So take us there, because you went to Greenland. Well,
first you went to Denmark, I believe, and then you yeah.

Speaker 8 (21:05):
I went to Copenhagen for a day.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah, well Greenland is I guess. I scouldly Greenland is
part of Denmark. But first you went to Denmark proper,
that's right, Hagen to then fly to Greenland. What was
it like? How'd you get there? Was it all snow?
Just break it down for us partly? Yeah, I mean
it was really difficult. People had warned me before I
went to Greenland, hey, like, actually, my neighbor is a

(21:27):
flight attendant and said to me, hey, some of my
flight attendant friends have been stuck for like three.

Speaker 8 (21:34):
Days in Greenland. And this was literally a week before
I went there, and I said, oh my gosh, okay,
and other people had warned me, listen, whatever days you
think you're flying in and out of Greenland, just like,
assume it's going to be a day or two difference.
And that turned out to be the case. I mean,
I flew out of Newark on a Tuesday. I got
into Copenhagen the next morning, no problem there, and then

(21:57):
the day after that. So this is third I took
a flight four and a half hour flight direct to Nook.
I didn't realize at the time that something like twenty
percent of the direct flights from Copenhagen to Nook there's
only one per day, had been canceled or turned around
or something to that effect. We got in, I thought,
no problem. A day later, we fly out to Southern Greenland,

(22:20):
which is where this actual mine was located.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
We flew on a plane, a helicopter.

Speaker 8 (22:23):
We flew on a plane to get down there. It
was a prop plane, which was kind of cool. We
landed and within moments of landing, it's like the densest
fog I've ever seen in my life just started to
settle in. And we were supposed to be up the
next day in a helicopter to get to this mine.
Because getting to the mine from this kind of base

(22:43):
camp that we had in Southern Greenland, it was either
like a two and a half hour three hour boat
ride or a helicopter ride that takes you fifteen minutes.
There's no driving, there's there's no other options. Those are
the options. The next day we woke up and it
was snowing and it was a fog. I mean, I
feel like the fog ceiling was like twenty feet above us.

(23:06):
I mean it was straight out of like Harry Potter,
you know, when he's like at the end of the
whole movie and he's just in this densely fogged area
and none of it makes sense. It felt that way
does it?

Speaker 2 (23:17):
And you know there's a big take podcast that you
did with David Gura. It'z great. You have some sound
from the French the helicopter pilot. Yeah, Pierre explaining to you,
you know, about the percentages that you were going to
actually get off the ground. I'm not going to give
the whole thing away, but it made me think when
I was listening to that and reading your story, the
actual extraction and processing of this stuff, it's got to

(23:38):
be pretty challenging in environments such as this.

Speaker 4 (23:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (23:42):
Part of that story was just pointing out how hard
it was to get to the mine itself. So you
add that on top of it is in a type
of rock that has still not been processed at commercial scale.
It is in a place that currently has no port.
There's no there's no equipment there right Like, it's not

(24:07):
like there were roads and early stage equipment. There's not
even like a small campsite of people on the site.
It's just a mound of dirt on a mountain. So
you have to imagine that from that point on, you
need to somehow get all the equipment in. You somehow
need to basically build out like a small camp to
begin digging into the ground and this mine tanbreeze. The

(24:31):
deposit is well known as being a serious deposit of
critical minerals, specifically rare earth. And you know, one of
the things we put out in the story is that
Chinese officials have been to the property before asking about
the potential of buying it. We've also heard that Russian
officials had been there before, so it's known, but to

(24:51):
get it to work, it is still unclear actually how
you will get it to work.

Speaker 10 (24:58):
One of the tidbits that I learned from your story,
among the many, is that rare earths, in spite of
their name, tend to be abundant as other industrial components.
But I guess I mean extracting them is a different
story altogether.

Speaker 4 (25:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (25:09):
So we know that Trump floated by in Greenland in
twenty nineteen, a move back then which was widely mocked.
But given the island's rare earth reserve, strategic location shipping potential,
was Trump actually ahead of his time, ahead of the curve?

Speaker 8 (25:24):
I don't know for sure, Like I think maybe the
way I kind of phrase it is, you know, it
seems like the president gets information in front of him,
and the way he kind of communicates it maybe is
cut up and spliced as to what the reality is.
I think people like Drew Horn and others who have

(25:46):
been around Greenland now for years finally felt like the
attention by the President of United States on this on
the rare earth on the island give it a business opportunity.
Because the sense from Drew Horn, and he said this
to me on the trip, was like, if investors feel
like the full faith and credit of the United States
federal government is behind a project, they will suddenly give

(26:07):
it a chance and that will be the thing to
see here. Like one of the things we pointed out
was so we found Drew Horn finally made it to
Tanbreeze and he got to see it, and later that
week he got out of Greenland and went down to
mar A Lago to talk to Trump Aids about it.
And then within weeks after that, the Export Import Bank

(26:29):
in the United States gave a letter of interest of
a fifteen year loan for the mind. Now, the key
thing here is that's a letter of interest. It's non binding,
it technically means nothing, but it does mean that it's
now on the radar of the US federal government. So
is that enough to convince investors like this is a

(26:51):
good bet. I don't know, but it does say to investors, okay,
so it's probably not a complete no show, Like maybe
we should at least sniff around it because there's a
potential that Trump just says, let's throw some money at it.
But I think that's that's where we get into this

(27:12):
territory of like, whoa, what are we really doing here?
I've covered mining for ten years at Bloomberg, and one
of the things you run into all the time are
these junior exploration companies or these junior miners, and you
don't you don't write about them because they're.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Nothing, because they haven't done anything.

Speaker 8 (27:30):
They haven't done anything, and typically kind of the rule
of thumb is like they aren't really anything until a
major miner comes up and buys them, you know, fifty
percent of them or the entirety of them, and then
it's like, Okay, this is a real deposit. It's going
to get developed by serious people with investors and you know,
the companies with good bonds. But this, this tanbreeze still

(27:52):
does fall within that junior miner, junior exploration company.

Speaker 10 (27:56):
So then what challenges technical financial or regulatory still stand
in the way, all of them.

Speaker 8 (28:01):
Of yeah, I mean all of them, all of them
for sure. One of the things pointed out to me
in Greenland was like, hey, the thing about Greenlanders is
they're open for business. They love that idea.

Speaker 10 (28:13):
So locals were open.

Speaker 8 (28:16):
Well, open, but so long as it doesn't hurt the environment. Right,
So we don't want our fjords polluted. We don't want
very nice green mountain side with a big hole in
it suddenly. Right, if you're able to do it responsibly
and sustainably, the understanding was that would be okay, But
then it's it's it's still not clear that that would

(28:38):
necessarily happen with tanbreeze.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Can that be done? Joe?

Speaker 4 (28:41):
Can?

Speaker 2 (28:42):
Can mining happen? Can mining of rares happen in a
sustainable way that doesn't scar the earth, that doesn't destroy
or affect these fjords?

Speaker 8 (28:50):
The Tanbres folks would say yes, they would say, modern mining,
technical capabilities, we're able to figure it out. We're able
to make this sustainable and clean. But again, like anything else,
it is you enter a period of show me. You know,
investors need to see that you can actually do it.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Does the US buy Greenland. Does it need to buy Greenland?

Speaker 8 (29:14):
No? No, I mean, let's be honest, it does not
need to buy Greenland. It's not going to buy Greenland.
Greenland is still a part of Denmark. One of the
most interesting parts of the story for me was I
sat in the home of a local politician who said, listen,
for me, it's not about being owned by the United States. Like,
right now we're owned by Denmark. We don't want to

(29:36):
be owned by Denmark. We don't want to be owned
by anybody. We want to be ourselves. We want to
be our own country. We are Inuit, we are Greenlandic.
There's a real history there. So I think that's another
important part is it's not a oh, the US would
be better. It's like, no, we don't want to be
owned by anybody. And I think that bit has often
gotten missed in the discussion over Greenland.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
He's the economic Statecraft reporter for Bloomberg News. Check out
his Big Take It's on the Bloomberg Terminal and at
bloomberg dot com. Also check out the Big Take podcast
of him along with David Gura of Bloomberg News.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
US live weekday afternoons from two to five Easter and
listen on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app,
or watch US live on YouTube.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
Earlier this month, the Trump administration increased its tariffs on
imports from New Zealand from ten percent to fifteen percent,
a move that has rattled New Zealand farmers, manufacturers, and
trade officials. It's a move that threatens billions and economic
ties and raises tough questions about how New Zealand navigates
a trade relationship with both the US and China. On

(30:55):
top of that, the Reserve Bank of New Zealand cut
its policy rate by twenty five basis point. It's to
a three year low of three percent, flagging ostalled economy
and warnings of domestic global headwinds for more. Carol and
I recently caught up with the Finance Minister of New Zealand,
Nicola willis Well.

Speaker 11 (31:11):
I think that there's considerable uncertainty in weld affairs today.
Where there were once things that were given and were
very predictable, we are now seeing more volatility and policy
decision making, which has implications for investors and for sovereigns
in terms of the way that we go about things.
For our part in New Zealand, we tend to want
to be a beacon of stability amidst all of that,

(31:33):
to say, you know what, We're going to continue to
be rules based. We have low, stable inflation, we have
declining interest rates. We're going for growth. We trade with
many countries around the world and wish to continue to
pursue freer trading relationships. We have prospects for growth, and
so we aim to be stable, predictable. We have secure institutions,

(31:54):
and we think those things will be at a premium
in the coming years as there is more volatility.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
Mister Willis, whenever we have officials from other countries visiting
the US, which is a big part of your job,
we always ask the question about a particular trip, why
are you in New York right now? Why are you
visiting us right now?

Speaker 11 (32:13):
We're here because we value very much both our economic
and security relationship with the United States, and I'm pursuing
more economic growth for New Zealand and New Zealanders, and
we believe it's in the interests of both of our
countries to forge stronger trade and investment ties in pursuit
of that.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
So how does that work in an America first environment,
In an environment from Washington, d C. Where the communication
has been very strongly This is an administration that is
looking at the priorities of the US, whether or not
it affects other countries in a negative way.

Speaker 11 (32:49):
Well, quite simply, our proposition is it's in the United
States interests to have a strong and growing relationship with
New Zealand. We're part of the Five Eyes security partnership
with Canada, the United Kingdom, and Australia, and we continue
to believe that's very important for the United States. We
also have a very complementary trade relationship. We export primary

(33:11):
products tech services which Americans value, and equally, we import
significant amounts from the United States and will continue to
do so. We, like many countries, are increasing our investment
and defense, and it's likely that some of the kit
that we will be purchasing in future will be manufactured
in the United States. Similarly, when our national Airline replaces

(33:32):
its fleet, it's likely that some of those planes will
be produced in America. We have very strong and longstanding
people to people ties. Our two countries have gone along
well for many, many decades, and we think it is
in the interests of both countries that New Zealand continue
to be a strong relationship that the United States could
look to and rely on.

Speaker 12 (33:53):
So is this White House so impacting the relationship, the
strong relationship that New Zealand has had with the United
States in any way we.

Speaker 11 (33:59):
Can tinue to view the United States as our friends. Now.
Of course, we would prefer not to be facing additional tariffs.
Find me a country that says, yeah, we really like
additional tariffs.

Speaker 12 (34:10):
And we're not in that.

Speaker 11 (34:11):
We're not in that situation, and we have a history
of pursuing freer trading agreements. We have very very low
trade barriers for United States and ports, and we feel
we've treated American exporters very well, so we would pre
prefer to be on a lower tariff rate. We've ended
up at fifteen percent as a base rate, which reflects
the fact we have a small trade surplus with the

(34:33):
United States. We're talking very marginal New Zealand dollars five
hundred million, so it isn't big. We don't really think.

Speaker 12 (34:39):
Disappointing that it wasn't maybe the ten percent that dooks
for thinking it.

Speaker 11 (34:42):
We would have preferred that we understand the rule that's
been applied. But it's hard to conceive that New Zealand,
a country of five million people, is any kind of
threat to the manufacturing or industrial base of America.

Speaker 12 (34:54):
Does it lead though? And I guess we're trying to
figure out. We talk a lot about the geopolitical world
war being changing around. We talked about if the present
was just asked about maybe closer ties between China and
Latin America. China already has a presence, we know in
Latin America, but maybe they are increased as a result
of what's going on. Are you forging different relationships because

(35:17):
of some of the strained relationships out of the United
States or strained relations out of the US.

Speaker 11 (35:22):
I wouldn't characterize it that way. New Zealand has always
looked to forge relationships around the world and to reinforce
the rules based system wherever we can, and to work
through multilateral institutions because we're small and our voice will
never be the loudest like the United States. We have
a strong and important economic relationship with China that we've
been able to maintain while also taking very different points

(35:45):
of view on many matters, and we've been able to
balance those two things.

Speaker 12 (35:50):
So not strengthening them with China because of maybe what's going.

Speaker 11 (35:53):
On, No, I would not characterize it that way, but
continuing to lean into our relationships where we have inst
So we are members, for example, of the CPTPP trade relationship,
and we have welcomed the EU's interest in becoming a
dialogue partner and looking to reinforce that trade arrangement. We've

(36:13):
recently signed free trade agreements with the United Kingdom, with
the European Union. They're important with the GCC, the UAE,
and we're pursuing a trade relationship with India. We think
it's very important as a small exporting country that we
have options and who we trade with and wherever possible,
try and open more doors. We've got a grand history

(36:35):
of doing that. We were one of the first countries
in the world to drop subsidies to ensure that we
were genuinely open to the world. We won't get rich
selling to ourselves, we're too small for that, so we
do well when the world welcomes our goods and services.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Mister Willis, are you meeting with any US officials on
this trip?

Speaker 11 (36:52):
Not on this trip thirty six hours only. I'm afraid,
but I look forward to returning to Washington later this
year for some the annual meetings, and at that point
I would hope to meet with some people from the administration.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
At that point, do you will part of your job
be to try to reduce the fifteen percent tariff on
goods from New Zealand.

Speaker 11 (37:11):
Well, look, we're realistic about the fact that the Trump
administration have set a clear parameter that countries that have
surpluses are unlikely to get reductions in their tariffs. But
we will continue to advance our case, which is that
we have a very complementary trade relationship with the United States,
built on a security partnership in a very long history,

(37:32):
and we will press the case for our exporters that
we would we think be fairly facing a lower rate.
And we will continue to share that message with our
friends in the United States to make sure that if
there is reconsideration of the current tariff regime in future,
that we're front of the line for reconsideration. We think
we should be. We're keyws, we play fair, we play
by the rules. We sell you Sauvignon blanc tourism experiences

(37:56):
and lean red meat that Americans love and we would
like you to be getting it at fair prices into
the future. And a lower tariff right supports that we
expect to continue buying huge amounts of American goods into
the future. So there's nothing to fear from giving New
Zealand a lower tariff right in the future.

Speaker 12 (38:13):
You're also great sailors. I'm just going to point it
out we as a fellow sailor myself, we're talking with
you Alot Willis, she's Minister of Finance of New Zealand
here in our studio at Bloomberg Headquarters in New York City.
What are you go doing to encourage foreign direct investment? Yeah, well,
we're very big on this.

Speaker 11 (38:29):
So we've set up a new entity, Invested New Zealand
to connect international investors with New Zealand. We're reforming our
legislation to make it easier for foreign investors to make investments,
and administratively, we've sped up the process by which they
can do that. Particular, we've introduced golden visas the Active
Investor Plus, which means that investors can get residency rights

(38:52):
in exchange for making investments either actively or passively. In
New Zealand assets.

Speaker 12 (38:57):
Is it working.

Speaker 11 (38:58):
It is working. We've been delighted by the response, a
really high degree of interest. Hundreds of people have applied
for those visas within the first few months, pledging over
a billion dollars in New Zealand funds. And I think
that reflects two things. One, New Zealand is a safe,
secure place in a world that increasingly is less so,

(39:18):
and people like the idea of having that residency in
New Zealand. But second, they can see that many of
our investment opportunities are currently undercapitalized. Investing in New Zealand
is a good bet.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Can they buy real estate in New Zealand though if
we get residency.

Speaker 11 (39:33):
Not currently that is excluded. Our government, which is comprised
of three parties, has been in discussion about loosening those
regulations so that those who get an active investor visa
may in future be able to purchase a proper.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
How far is the future? What are we talking about
for a timeline here?

Speaker 11 (39:50):
Those talks have been underway and you would expect that
a decision would be made by our cabinet in the coming.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
Weeks, Okay, in the coming weeks, So Carol, get ready.

Speaker 12 (40:01):
Your little slice of paradise.

Speaker 11 (40:03):
You know, we're surrounded by a big, fat option. I
know we have huge amounts of land. It's beautiful. I
think the world should be looking at New Zealand. We
have great prospects.

Speaker 12 (40:13):
Will the US tariffs impact growth in your nation?

Speaker 11 (40:17):
Well, as I said, we'd always prefer not to be
facing those tariffs, but as a proportion of our overall trade,
it is actually quite small. The more significant impact for
US is the same as it is for many other countries,
which is a lower rate of global growth resulting from
tariffs and retaliatory too.

Speaker 12 (40:35):
You're worried about a global recession, then.

Speaker 11 (40:37):
Not a recession, but just a lower rate of potential
growth would have otherwise been the case, particularly out of
our trading partners. That then effects prices for our goods
and demand for our goods.

Speaker 12 (40:49):
It's just enough to feel like a recession.

Speaker 11 (40:51):
Well, it can slow enough to feel like we're not
meeting the potential that would have otherwise been realized. And
that's been reflected in our forecast for the New Zealand economy,
and which we did peer down our growth expectations for
the future based on what was developing with tariffs. You know,
obviously there's a lot of water to go into the
bridge to see how all of this does play out globally,
how countries are affected, and what it means for New

(41:13):
Zealand's part. We continue to forecast strong growth, low inflation.
That will remain the case, but a teriff free world
is one in which we grow faster.

Speaker 12 (41:22):
Do you think that might come back if there's a
different president in the.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
Way it is.

Speaker 11 (41:26):
I think countries will always continue to pursue their own
interests as they should, and that's why I will keep
singing the song for freer trade, because that is in
New Zealand's interests.

Speaker 12 (41:36):
So glad to get some time with you. Thank you
so much. Tom and I both enjoyed it. Nicola well
as she's Minister of Finance for New Zealand right here
in our studio.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live
each weekday starting at two pm e's during on Applecarplay
and Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can
also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New
York season Just Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
Plenty ahead in our second hour of the weekend edition
of Bloomberg BusinessWeek. From Subways to Superchargers, more insights from
the c suite, including the CFO of New York's Metropolitan
Transportation Authority on addressing fair evasion, keeping the city's public
transit budgets on track, and the agency's nearly two billion
dollar investment in a subway line. Plus the founder and

(42:24):
CEO of spark Charge wants to bring mobile ev charging
everywhere you go. We discussed the company's plans to accelerate
ev adoption all across North America. That's coming up later
this hour, but first. The digital payments company Block formerly
known as Square, earlier this month raised its full year
profit guidance. This after second quarter earnings came in well
ahead of Wall Street expectations. It was fueled by strength

(42:45):
and its cash app lending business and resilient payment volumes.
The company now expects to generate ten point one seven
billion dollars in gross profit this year. That's up from
a prior forecast of nine point nine to six billion.
We've got with us am Rita, USA CFO and COLO
of Block. She joins us from Palo Alto, California, actually
from Hillsborough California. Excuse me, I'm Rerida is going to

(43:06):
be featured in an upcoming edition of the Bloomberg CFO
Briefing newsletter. You can sign up for that at Bloomberg
dot com slash CFO Briefing. Also with us is a
Nina Trentman, Bloomberg News Senior editor. She writes the Bloomberg
CFO Briefing newsletter. She joins us here in the Bloomberg
Interactive Brokers Studio. Welcome, Welcome, everybody, and Rita, I want
to start with you. I almost said Square at Block

(43:28):
you've got a great view of what the consumer's doing
because of transactions, because of what's happening with.

Speaker 6 (43:33):
The Cash App.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
How would you describe the US consumer right now?

Speaker 4 (43:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 13 (43:38):
Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me.
It's great to be here. You know, look, we have
real time data across our two at scale ecosystems, Square
that serves sellers small businesses, and across that we see
hundreds of millions of buyer cards consumer cards, and then
Cash App, which serves individuals fifty seven million monthly active

(43:59):
accounts and Cash App across the United States. So between
these two businesses we get to see a lot in
terms of consumer spending and consumer health patterns. Overall, what
we've seen is resilience. From a square perspective, we see
strong retention. This is the growth or seam store growth
for a small business on our platform remaining steady and strong.

(44:20):
And we see strong new customer acquisition, which we think
is a sign of strong small business as well as
the growth of our platform. And then from a cash
app perspective, we see continued growth in spending and in
earned wages on our platform, which again is an indication
of the engagement of our platform, our ability to command
share of wallet, as well as the resilience of a consumer.

Speaker 14 (44:43):
Man, Rita, thanks for joining us.

Speaker 15 (44:45):
Just following up there in terms of your business, you
also have a buy now, pay later component. I'm wondering
how delinquency rates have evolved in that business and also
how you're thinking about underwriting in this somewhat uncertain crow environment.

Speaker 13 (45:02):
Well, we think the product attributes of our three lending
products enable us to be pretty nimble and be able
to pivot quickly. To the extent we do see a
turn in repayment rates, which, as you heard on our call,
we haven't yet heard. We have three primary lending products.
Square loans that serve small businesses, as you note by

(45:22):
now pay later, which serves customers at a point of
checkout when they're buying something and they can pay in
for that transaction, and then cash that borrow, which enables
you to get a line of credit that often bridges people.
We know so many millions are living to effect a
paycheck and this helps smooth their cash flows. And across
each of these three lending products, we've seen strong and

(45:43):
healthy repayment behavior. Now we're ready to the extent that
that changes. We have the ability to update our underwriting
machine learning based underwriting models in real time, but we
also want to be there to support customers as their
needs arise, and we think that our products can do
that effectively.

Speaker 15 (46:00):
Just following up in terms of signals that you're looking
for specifically on performance of the business and whether any
of the micro uncertainty is feeding through. What are the
metrics that you're specifically looking for.

Speaker 13 (46:13):
Sure, So from a cash app perspective, we look at
things like inflows per active that's the amount of money
that customers bring into cash app, and that held a
growth rate on inflows proactive in the second quarter for
US with cash up was at eight percent, showing again
strong engagement with our platform and resilience of the consumer.

(46:34):
We also look at things like commerce volumes. Our commerce
volumes over the last twelve months within cash app grew
sixteen percent year over that year over year. That's the
amount of money that people are using our platform to
conduct commerce, whether it's by now, pay later, cash up card,
or cash up pay. We also look from a square

(46:54):
perspective at things like growth on our discretionary verticals, so
our food and beverage GPV, which you can think of
as discretionary. We serve a lot of quick service restaurants.
Full service restaurants grew fifteen percent your rear in the
second quarter. Retail GPV also oftentimes discretionary vertical for uscrew

(47:14):
ten percent your reear. Again, these are healthy rates of growth,
but we're very watchful. We look at this data on
a daily basis, and we want to be there both
to protect our business but also more importantly serve our
customers to the extent that you know, in this dynamic environment,
anything were to change.

Speaker 9 (47:32):
I want to pivot a little bit to crypto because
block holds roughly eighty six hundred bitcoins worth almost a
billion dollars, and crypto treasury companies have been getting a
lot of attention. You guys own bitcoin. Are there any
plans to add Ether to the company. What's the journey
been like on that crypto planet? Yeah, Ether plans at all.

Speaker 13 (47:54):
No plans to add anything beyond Bitcoin from a crypto
currency perspective to our balance sheet. We believe that if
the Internet is to have a currency, Bitcoin is the
most likely contender. It's the longest lived, it's resilient, it's
an open developer ecosystem. All the rules are understood, and
it is effectively an open source platform, an open protocol

(48:17):
for money. We think ultimately, if the Internet does have
a currency, and that is Bitcoin, that enables us as
a company to move at the speed of the Internet
as we think about our business more globally. So a
world in which Bitcoin succeeds is a world in which
companies like ours can move more efficiently and more quickly

(48:37):
to serve our customers. That's the sort of purpose the
strategic alignment that we have with bitcoin. All sorts of
different ways that we as a company are learning about
how to operate in a bitcoin world. One of those
is by holding it on our own balance sheet as
a corporate to have bitcoin in our treasuries, and we've

(48:57):
been doing this for five plus years now, and it's
something where we get to learn the insurance aspects, the
buy sell aspects, the custody aspects, the protection around that,
and how we think about the accounting and the tax
elements for bitcoin. So we're learning a lot as a
company as we do that, just as an individual would

(49:17):
or another institution might, and I think it's something that
a lot of other corporates will begin to consider more
and more.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
We're speaking with Amrita, who'sha CFO and COO of Block
and Rita on the bitcoin question, the buying and selling.
Do you have plans to buy more bitcoin to add
to the treasury.

Speaker 13 (49:37):
We have a program in place where we dollar cost
to average our bitcoin purchases. We have a gross profit
that we generate from bitcoin and our customer oriented products,
so we sell bitcoin through cash app. We've sold over
fifty eight billion dollars worth of bitcoin to our cash
app customers. We also have a product that we're launching
in the back half of this year for bitcoin minors

(50:00):
around the infrastructure, the hardware, and the integrated software for that,
and we have a self custody product, bitkey. We have
said that ten percent of all of the gross profit
that we generate across our bitcoin products, we will invest
back in the bitcoin. And so we're in the market
every single day buying that ten percent worth of our
gross profit back into bitcoin.

Speaker 15 (50:19):
Mam Rita, we are running out of time, just very quickly.
Just wandering from a CFO perspective, you said, if you've
held bitcoin on your balance sheet for five years, you've
seen the fluctuations. That's basically what I'm hearing from CFOs
as to why they don't want to hold bitcoin. How
is the company navigating the ups and downs in the price,
even though most recently we've seen more increase than decrease.

Speaker 13 (50:40):
You know, there's been fluctuations in a number of different assets,
different asset classes. You have to be transparent with your
investors as to what's driving various elements. The updated accounting
standards for bitcoin treat it like any other asset that
you may own, where you write it up at the
end of the quarter. If the value goes up and

(51:01):
you write it down at the end of a quarter,
if the value goes down. The prior standards which to
get into some of the accounting wonkiness were as an
intangible asset. We're very very strict and you can only
ever write down the value of bitcoin. So now with
these updated accounting standards that look like any other asset
you may hold on your balance sheet, we think that
that has the opportunity to create clarity for investors and

(51:25):
for companies, and to bring more people into the bitcoin ecosystem.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
I'm Rita, who's a CFO and COO of Block. Please
do come back and join us soon on a Bloomberg
Business Weekdaily. Really appreciate your time. Once again. I'm Rita,
who's just CFO and COO of Block joining us from Hillsboro, California.
Also with us Nina Trettman, Bloomberg News Senior editor. She
writes the Bloomberg CFO Briefing newsletter. Sign up for it
at Bloomberg dot com slash CFO Dash Briefing.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
us live weekly afternoons from two to five eas during
Listen on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app,
or watch us live on YouTube.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
The MTA runs New York City subways, buses, and commuter
trains that six million people rely on each weekday, and
on Monday, board members approved close to a two billion
dollar contract to expand the Second Avenue subway line into
East Harlem. Jpitzel is the CFO of the MTA. She's
charged with quite the task, which I think is fair
to say many would find unenviable, charting a sustainable path

(52:32):
through one of the agency's most financially trying periods in
its six decade history. She joins us here in the
Bloomberg Business Week studio. Jay, Welcome, how are you.

Speaker 14 (52:41):
I'm good, how are you? Tim? Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
Yeah, thanks so much for joining us. I want to
start with the numbers and just ridership.

Speaker 4 (52:48):
Here.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Weekday subway ridership is still twenty five percent below pre
COVID levels. In your modeling, does that ever come back
to where it was?

Speaker 14 (52:56):
I you know, we have a financial plan that's a
five year period, and originally we were projecting that we
would see our subway ridership up to ninety percent, but
a couple of years ago we revised that because we
weren't seeing that. But We're hopeful we see an eighty
percent by twenty twenty nine ridership recovery for subways, But

(53:17):
on the railroads, we're seeing that recovery even higher. Today
we see eighty five percent ridership recovery on our railroads,
which is amazing, something that we thought was going to
be slower our railroad customers than our subway customers originally
coming out of pre pandemic.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
So is there a way to tap into that growth financially,
perhaps with higher prices for those commuters rather than here
in the city for subway and bus riders.

Speaker 14 (53:45):
So you know, what we have is very small, predictable
far increases that help balance the financial plan, and so
we don't want to burden one rider or over another.
It's really about distance space and commuters, and so we
keep that equitable. You know that we do a two
percent fair increase every other you know, every other year,

(54:05):
and that keeps our financial plan and balance.

Speaker 9 (54:08):
How do you plan to get that number, I think
you said eighty percent ridership? How do you bring people
back into the subways?

Speaker 14 (54:16):
We bring writers back by providing reliable on time performance right,
our service matters to customers and delivering the service that
we promise and schedule is something that we strive for,
but also safety. Our customers need to feel safe safe,
and our customers feel that right. We've had the lowest

(54:37):
safety you know numbers or crime numbers in July, and
so our customers are telling us that by taking the subway,
but also our customer surveys right tell us that customers
are satisfied with the service that we're providing.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
The MTA phases that combined one point one billion dollar
deficit over three years starting in twenty twenty seven, it
already owes close to fifty billion dollars that needs to
spend sixty eight billion dollars more for vital improvements. There's
some federal aid that's up in the air. The Trump
administration is trying to roll back congestion pricing. What's the
backup plan if the aid evaporates and the President is

(55:14):
successful in rolling back congestion pricing.

Speaker 14 (55:17):
You know, Tim, I would be remiss if I didn't
mention that. Back in twenty twenty three, we were the
first transit agency to solve our fiscal cliff. Thanks to
Governor Holcal, chairliber and the legislature, we were able to
come out of a deficit unlike any other transit agency today.
You've heard SEPTA's facing deep cuts Chicago, but we were

(55:38):
the first to say we need state, federal and local aid,
and we got our state federal funding for us. We
also as the MTA, contributing to our solving our deficit. Right,
the MTA contributes five hundred million to operating efficiencies, and
those deficits that we have in twenty seven and twenty
eight and twenty nine are very small compared to our

(56:00):
operating budget, and we are committed to doing our part
in saving money to help ensure that we can balance
our budget in the out years.

Speaker 9 (56:09):
We were talking a little bit about the base fares
of subways increasing regularly. I'm wondering if there is there
a set area within the MTA that that revenue goes toward.
Because the base fare for a subway in New York
City it's expected to increase to three dollars in January.

Speaker 14 (56:26):
Correct, So our fares help our operating budget, right, So
they seventy percent of MTA's cost our labor and fringe,
and so that pays for seventy thousand employees, and then
the small fraction is for the non labor contract, so
every fair contributes to operating cost.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
On our side, let's talk about fares and fair evasion.
Usually when we talk fair evasion, I think of people
jumping over subway turnstiles, and I know there's been some
mitigation efforts in place. But I took the bus to
LaGuardia on Thursday. It was a great experien So when
I got on the SBS and Queens, I got on
it was like an articulated bus, so you know, it
was a long when I got off and on in

(57:07):
the back and out of like more than half a
dozen people, I think I was the only one who paid,
And I was thinking to myself, I didn't know it
was optional to pay to get on the bus. What
are the numbers there?

Speaker 14 (57:18):
So it's not optional right to pay the fair. We
are encouraging every customer to pay our pay their fair share.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
To but there's no enforcement on the bus.

Speaker 14 (57:27):
So there's a couple of things that we're doing for
fair evasion. And our chair has been tackling this first
when he became chair. So on the subways you've heard
of us talking about we're doing fins, sleeves, gate guards,
enforcing the exit gate, which is the fair you know,
evasion highway. And so we've made great strides on the subways.

(57:48):
We've reduced fair evasion in over a year by thirty percent.
We've dropped that rate from a high of fourteen percent
to nine point eight percent, So we know those efforts
are working. On the buses, it's a little bit more difficult,
but we're also working there. We've decreased fair invasion on
our buses as well in the last year from fifty

(58:08):
percent to forty four percent because all the tactics the
President of New York City Transit is employeing. We have
eagle teams that are looking, you know, on different bus
routes to make sure that they are enforcing the pay
your fare right. Our bus operators do their due diligence,
but really our eagle teams are enforcement out there riding

(58:28):
different routes and making sure customers fair pay their fare
or they're getting a summons or they're getting off the bus.
And that's how we're working.

Speaker 6 (58:36):
How does that work?

Speaker 9 (58:37):
Because I heard of a friend who was on a
bus and someone had come around and like scanned their
phone to see if they had paid the fare. Is
that how it works explain to us.

Speaker 14 (58:47):
So right now what we are doing is if you're
boarding the bus, you have to pay, because there's two
different ways you can pay right today is the Metro
card and the OMNI, And when we go to full
OMNI next year, there's going to be proof of payment.
And so what you can do is European style proof
of payment for customers is you can tap their phones
or credit cards the method of payment to see if

(59:09):
they paid their fare and if they didn't pay their fare.
That's something that we will work with on a summons
or you know, you need to pay your fare for
our customer, and so that's something that's coming. We're really
excited about that for OMNI and proof of payment, but
right now there's two different methods and so we're working
on different ways to combat fair evasion.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
I want to talk a little bit about proposals from
mayoral candidates or in Mumdani. For example, it's proposal to
make all New York City buses free. What do you
think of that and does it create a sort of
a two tiered mass transit system where people who ride
buses don't pay for it, but then people who ride
the subway do and then kind of offset like people
not necessarily taking the right mode of transit for their destination.

Speaker 14 (59:52):
We've heard the mariial candidates proposal for a fair free buses.
What I'd like to emphasize again is fairbox revie. He
is important to the operations of the MTA. It's twenty
six percent of our revenue, and buses is about a
billion dollars in the out years of revenue for the
MTA bus for the MTA, excuse me, and that's important

(01:00:14):
to us, and so we want to make sure revenues
equal service. And that is something that's hypothetical right now,
but we rely on fairbox revenue.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
So you said a billion dollars in revenue is what
it brings in. Momdanni estimates that's about seven hundred and
fifty million dollars annually to make buses free. Is that
an accurate assessment on his part?

Speaker 14 (01:00:35):
I think there's pieces that he's he's looking at just
the New York City Transit bus fair We have MTA
bus that we also a run that the city contributes to,
and that is also fairbox revenue for buses.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
So what would take away that revenue from the MTA
due to the authorities finances or would it just be
I mean, look again, it's a proposal, you said, it's
something that you know is not a plan yet. But
to be fair, he is by far the favored candidate,
and there are a lot of questions about what power
he has to actually follow through with a campaign promise
such as this. But this is certainly a central part

(01:01:07):
of his campaign, so you got to be looking at
it closely.

Speaker 14 (01:01:09):
We are looking at it. But one thing that I
would like to emphasize right right now in New York City,
fares are affordable. We make transit and buses the most
affordable at two dollars and ninety cents, and it's affordable
with fairfares, reduce fair for our customers. But you know,
it is something that we will look into as the
mayoral candidate has proposed.

Speaker 9 (01:01:32):
What about mitigating climate issues that affect particularly the subway stations.
You go online, you see videos of flooding in station,
trying to.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
Get home and on a raading day.

Speaker 9 (01:01:42):
Right and water in the subway station. Do you guys have,
at least as part of the upcoming capital plan, a
plan in place to update the infrastructure.

Speaker 14 (01:01:53):
A couple of points on that right. A couple of
the issues that arise in the subway systems are not
the MTA's fault. New York City contributes to the flooding
issues that we face in the subways, whether it's through
dep manholes, the sewage. So that is one aspect of
the flooding that you see on the New York City Transit.

(01:02:13):
But our historic capital plan that sixty eight point four
billion dollars does have climate resiliency of hardening the system
in certain stations in proposed And therefore.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Let's talk a little bit about congestion pricing. Not as
hot of a topic as it was a few months ago,
it seems like it's died down a little bit in
your view. Is it working?

Speaker 14 (01:02:34):
Congestion pricing is working. It is reducing traffic by eleven percent.
What does that mean? Seventy thousand cars are off the
road every single day. What else is it doing. It's
moving our buses faster, it's moving people faster. We've seen
a change in ridership, but also we've seen safety increases.
There's a fourteen percent decline in pedestrian crashes. And on

(01:02:56):
top of it all, it is bringing in the revenue
that we had projected originally.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
It's being watched very closely, not just by proponents and
opponents of it, but also by other cities that might
want to put this into practice. Have you or has
the MTA heard from other cities about congestion pricing, about
the model and about questions about implementing it in their
own cities.

Speaker 14 (01:03:16):
The MTA has heard from other cities and transit properties
and engaged with them to have conversations about the process
that New York implemented for the successful congestion pricing program
that we're having. So they're looking at it at us
as a model.

Speaker 9 (01:03:31):
We have to ask about the second Second Avenue subway
expansion as well. Just walk us through some of the
plans for and the timeline here, because this has been
something that's been in the work, something that any New
Yorker who's lived in New York for the.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Last ford how many years, forty.

Speaker 14 (01:03:48):
Decades, fifty yards fifty I think we've talked about that
at our special board meeting. You know, the contract that
our board just approved is almost one point nine billion
dollar contract to start boring, right, what does that mean?
It's starting the tunneling for the three stations that are
vital to Second Avenue Subway Phase two, and we are

(01:04:09):
committed to expanding Second Avenue Phase two here at the MTA,
and we think it's going to be a great service
to our customers. It's going to serve about one hundred
thousand customers in addition to the two hundred thousand customers
that's Second Avenue Subway Phase one serves today.

Speaker 9 (01:04:29):
Do you have a timeline or an expected timeline.

Speaker 4 (01:04:32):
I think the.

Speaker 14 (01:04:34):
Twenty thirty two was the service date that we have
said publicly.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
It's a very like I said at the beginning, it's
an enviable task that you have ahead of you. Some
people would argue, I would imagine that you spend quite
a bit of time studying other transit systems around the world,
what's worked and what hasn't worked. If you could wave
a magic wand here in New York City to overcome
some of the barriers that the MTA has experien whether

(01:05:00):
they're financial barriers, whether they're CAPEX barriers, what would those
be like? What is the biggest obstacle to making the
service even better here?

Speaker 14 (01:05:09):
So I think tim one thing that I would say
is MTAs a leader and being the largest agency in
North America other agencies look to US. I think I
said this before we led with the fiscal cliff, we
lead with our capital program as well. We have started
to do things differently since Janel Lieber took over for
cn D and now Jamie Torres Springer. We do design, build,

(01:05:32):
We do faster, cheaper and better. But we're employing definitely
different ways of doing capital programs as well as operating
for US to be better.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
I want to go back to congestion pricing and some
financial questions around that, specifically about selling debt off of revenues.
Do you have plans to sell debt off of revenues
from congestion pricing?

Speaker 14 (01:05:59):
As you know, the congestion revenue is dedicated to the
twenty to twenty four capital program. It is expected to
generate fifteen billion for that program, and once we see
a stable market in the revenues coming in, we do
plan to issue debt. We've talked about it. That's not
sometime until twenty twenty six for US. Once we see
a comfortable stream of revenue. We've projected five hundred million

(01:06:22):
for the next three years, and we want to make
sure that we see that revenue and the markets are
comfortable issuing that debt for us.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
You've talked about fair increases on MTA services, what about
increases in congestion pricing? And what is the timeline for that?

Speaker 14 (01:06:37):
So as the governor has said to us, right, it's
the toll will continue to be nine dollars for three years,
then it'll increase gradually to the next three years at
twelve dollars, and then in the final the seventh year,
it'll be a fifteen dollars use a toll. So we've
already had that phased in based on the schedule we approved.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
Can you just bring us another litigation around this with
the federal government and with the state, But can you
just take us into conversations that you've had with counterparts
at the Department of Transportation over the last few months
about making sure that the MTA stays on a sustainable
financial path.

Speaker 14 (01:07:16):
So I think you know what I would say is
the federal government contributes two billion dollars to the MTA,
and that's a revenue source that we rely on to
keep the system in the state of good repair, and
so we would continue to want that funding. You know,
MTA moves forty percent of riders across North America, but

(01:07:37):
receives only a fraction of federal dollars from Washington, and
so we continue to rely on the federal dollars that
we get and it's important for us.

Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
But what's the backup plan if that evaporates?

Speaker 14 (01:07:48):
Yeah, we're confident, right that the MTA and the federal government,
the federal judge that is designed right, we're confident that
we would win that lawsuit. You know, Judge Lineman issued
a positive finding for the MTA just a few months ago.
And congestion pricing is, you know, continuing to operate and
we're generating the funding.

Speaker 2 (01:08:09):
JA, thanks so much. Oh go ahead, Well, I was
just going to ask one more question.

Speaker 9 (01:08:13):
Just I mean, I imagine you know, you get a lot
of people who hear these numbers. Congestion pricing is on
tractories five hundred million. They say, wow, that sounds like
a lot of money. Why are you know, why are
the subways still the way that they are? Delays, crime
on cleanliness? Help us just understand. I know that you

(01:08:35):
said that a lot of those fares go towards paying workers,
But a number like this, a number like five hundred million,
what does it mean in the context for the broader
MTA organization is that a lot of money.

Speaker 14 (01:08:48):
So I'll give you context. Our operating budget every every
year is about twenty billion dollars, right, That is to
run subways, buses, commuter rails and the services for six
million commuters every day. But in order for us to
keep that system running, you have to maintain it, right,
and so sixty eight point four billion dollars a good

(01:09:10):
majority of that funding is to keep it in a
state of good repair. That means new railcars, new buses,
new signal upgrades, track maintenance, and everything else that goes
with operating a system that's so vast in size. So
five hundred million dollars is just one stream of revenue
that generates when we leverage it fifteen billion dollars to

(01:09:32):
continue with the capital side of the world, but the
operating side has different funding sources. But we're confident that we,
you know, move six million customers every single day, and
we're happy to do that safely.

Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
Jpittel, CFO of the Metropolitan Transit Authority, joining us here
in the Bloomberg Business Week Studio.

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
us live weekday afternoons from two to five these during
this listen on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg
Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
Some big news in the EV space this past month.
Bloomberg reporting that Ford is unveiling plants for a new
line of budget universal evs and a five billion dollar
bid to achieve mass appeal. And then the US Department
of Transportation revived the five billion dollar National Electric Vehicle
Infrastructure Program, which was suspended back in February. So while

(01:10:27):
Ford and the Department of Transportation poor billions into EV
manufacturing and charging infrastructure, one company is providing an alternative
to EV charging. Spark Charge provides off grid scalable charging
solutions where they bring the charging power to you. The
company recently raised over thirty million dollars in capital to
accelerate mobile EV charging adoption. For more. Carol and Bloomberg

(01:10:49):
TV anchor Matt Miller caught up with the founder and
CEO of spark Charge, Josh Avive. Matt is widely known
at Bloomberg as a major car enthusiast, always driving something new.
He kicks off the interview by explaining whether he is
ready to make the transition to a full EV.

Speaker 6 (01:11:05):
No, because I'm a gearhead. I like to work on
my cars myself. I like old American muscle. I like
cars to be loud and smell like gasoline and vibrate
a lot. But but lately I've been driving a ton
of evs. I drive a new car every week for
my podcast it's called Hot Pursuit with Hannah Elliott, and
the acceleration, the handling has gotten so much better. There's

(01:11:27):
so many more to choose from that. It's not just
boring looking Tesla's with spartan interiors that it's It's become
almost a preferred motor transportation for me. The one problem
I have still charging the charging network is so bad.

Speaker 12 (01:11:42):
Yeah, so we have a guest just got a front
row seat to it, so let's bring him in. Josh
Aviv is founder in CEO of Spark Charge. He's out
there in Massachusetts. Josh, good to have you here with Matt.
Get ready for a grilling, because it is Matt Miller.

Speaker 4 (01:11:57):
We're ready, We're ready.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):
Listen.

Speaker 12 (01:11:58):
Your company reminds us that it is the world's largest
EV fleet charging network. Lay it out for us where
it is how many who's using it give us some
size and scope.

Speaker 16 (01:12:09):
Absolutely, so, spark Charge is the world's largest off grade
evy fleet charging network. We have operations across all fifty
states and recently just launched in Canada and Mexico. What
makes us special is that we bring the power to
the fleet. So we show up with our off grid
mobile battery chargers and mobile power hubs. We can get
going without any grid connection, which means we get fleets

(01:12:29):
up and running and charging and as little as three
to seven days versus them having to wait as much
as two to three years for infrastructure to catch up.

Speaker 6 (01:12:38):
So you're the biggest off grid ev charging network.

Speaker 12 (01:12:42):
What does that mean mean?

Speaker 6 (01:12:44):
Meaning you're not the consumer chargers that are build up
in malls or next to a Starbucks. You're you're working
with like Ford pro kind of customers to charge their
trucks exactly. So you're wringing with construction fleets, with plumbers,
with electricians, with anybody, with anybody who's Amazon fleet.

Speaker 12 (01:13:06):
Yeah, Amazon fleets.

Speaker 16 (01:13:08):
Like Amazon last mile delivery rideshare fleets as well construction fleets,
rental car fleets, school bus fleets. Think about the problem
that consumers have where they're like, hey, I need to
figure out how.

Speaker 4 (01:13:19):
To charge one car.

Speaker 16 (01:13:21):
Fleets have the issue of how do I charge twenty
cars one hundred cars, and how do I do that
every day to keep my business going? And we step
in and we basically get them up and running quicker
than any other electrification option on planet. Or if we
can get a full fleet up and running in as
little as three days fully electrified, and those cars out
on the road.

Speaker 6 (01:13:38):
Dude, that is such a great business. How did you
start this?

Speaker 16 (01:13:45):
Yeah, so we started it when we realized that a
lot of fleets were waiting anywhere from two to five
years before the grid would catch up and allow them
to electrify. And we said, well, how what happens if
we bring the energy to you, or if we get
power set up to where we can use our batteries
to get you charging almost immediately. What we realize is

(01:14:06):
that fleets still incorporate fifty cars. They'll incorporate twenty cars,
but then they'll have the issue of going to the
grid and saying, hey, we want to get these cars electrified,
but the grid.

Speaker 4 (01:14:16):
Can't handle the demand of all these vehicles.

Speaker 16 (01:14:18):
And so we show up, We get them up and
go out with from mobile battery chargers, which means they're
charging from a giant battery connected to charging stations and
then they're able to get up and running a lot quicker,
and then they also have a smoother service.

Speaker 4 (01:14:30):
Right there's no such thing as.

Speaker 16 (01:14:32):
Grid delays or power outages, especially when it's being battery backed.

Speaker 4 (01:14:36):
All the energy is there.

Speaker 12 (01:14:37):
Wait, so you just kind of bring a massive battery
to places and that's how you do it?

Speaker 6 (01:14:42):
Is it on eighteen wheels? How do you transport that?

Speaker 4 (01:14:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 16 (01:14:45):
So some of them are trailer based, some of them
are container based, but basically we can get that fleet
set up operating off that battery and then they can
begin charging from those charging stations immediately. We also have
power hubs that use basically clean energy like hydrogen and
things like that. They can also get a fleet up
and run in and quickly as well.

Speaker 12 (01:15:06):
That's what I was going to do. So how do
you charge your battery? That's what I'm curious, Like, where
are you getting the power and how do you make
sure it's cost efficient, especially when there's such a power
grab right now with all the AI going on.

Speaker 16 (01:15:16):
Absolutely, so we're pretty much energy agnostic. So that means
that we can grab energy from solar, which a lot
of times, that's what we'll do. We'll swap the battery out,
so we'll basically have a battery recharging from a solar partner.
We'll bring it in, we'll swap it out with a
fresh battery, and then keep that fleet going twenty four
seven three sixty five. To the fleet, it looks like
limitless energy and we're managing all the power on the

(01:15:39):
back end, which means they never have to worry about
downtime or any operational efficiencies. We're constantly swapping that battery
out or hooking it up to solar to keep them going.

Speaker 6 (01:15:48):
I'm normally pretty skeptical, but I was like, Wow, what
a cool company with a great idea.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
And now it realized what he's just a great pitch man.

Speaker 6 (01:15:56):
Also, right, I didn't see until now that you got
a million dollar investment from Mark Cuban and Lorie Grinder
on Shark Tank. You won various awards too, So you're
great at selling these businesses, Josh, what's.

Speaker 12 (01:16:08):
Your There has to be demand otherwise you don't have
a bill for sure.

Speaker 6 (01:16:11):
No, it's huge, and I mean, look at how well
Ford Pro has done with that unit. It's just unbelievable
to growth. But what's your exit? I mean, are you
looking at IPO this company? Will you sell it to
a bigger company? How do you how do you get
Mark Cuban is money out?

Speaker 4 (01:16:28):
Yeah?

Speaker 16 (01:16:29):
I mean right now we're really just focused on execution.
We're having an amazing year, thank god, and we're really
seeing fleets come to us and say, hey, we want
to get going a lot quicker. We don't want to wait,
and so we're having an amazing year. I think for us,
the right exit will present itself, but right now we're
focused on scale. We're focused on making sure our customers
are happy and making sure that we're onboarding a new fleet.

(01:16:50):
Keep in mind, because we're not waiting on the grid
to catch up because we're able to service these fleets.
We're almost onboarding a new fleet every week. So you know,
while we don't don't come out there and say it,
we're probably one of the fastest growing ev charging networks
out there as well.

Speaker 12 (01:17:04):
Wait execution, no offense. It's a pet pee for me.
When an executive says execution, I don't know what that means.
It's like everybody dumps things into that.

Speaker 6 (01:17:14):
One want to grow their business, you know, and they
don't want to tell you what their exit is.

Speaker 12 (01:17:17):
So tell us, I mean, what does that mean? What
do you need to do? What do you need to
hit what targets in order to really be successful and
sustainable longer term?

Speaker 16 (01:17:27):
Absolutely, so for us, success is making sure that when
we get a fleet operational, we're getting them operational to
where they can actually grow their fleet. A lot of
times fleets will come to us and they'll say, hey,
I'm starting out with ten cars, but my goal is
to get to one hundred cars and the grid can't
keep up with that growth. Plus the time to install
is going to take me three to five years at
that number of vehicles. So for us, execution means, hey,

(01:17:50):
get this fleet up and running in three to seven days,
get them fully electrified. And then now that they're fully
electrified and they want to grow their fleet, let's grow
with them. Let's allow them to go from ten vehicles
to twenty twenty to fifty to fifty to one hundred
and see long term growth with that fleet partner over
a number of years as they continue to grow and operate.
And because we're getting them up and running quicker, we

(01:18:13):
want them to see a better ROI than if they
had to wait on infrastructure to catch up.

Speaker 6 (01:18:18):
All right, So we're speaking right now with Josh Aviv.
He's the founder and CEO of Spark Charge. I know
that you're focused on the pro unit, the commercial fleets,
but you must also love cars. I've been in a
ton of evs lately. I was in a Chevy Blazer EVSs.
I was in a Dodge Charger daytona scat Pack, which

(01:18:40):
I loved. Right now I'm in a Cadillac Vistic, which
I'm also just really positively surprised by. What do you drive?
What's your d d Josh?

Speaker 4 (01:18:49):
I drive a twenty twenty six Cadillac Vistic.

Speaker 6 (01:18:51):
The Vistic is pretty sick, isn't it. I was truly
impressed by this vehicle.

Speaker 4 (01:18:56):
Love it.

Speaker 6 (01:18:57):
I didn't love the Escalade IQ as much, which is
the bigger EV. It's massive, it's a it's a giant,
It's like a giant house one. But the Vistick is
relatively snappy for a car that can still hold like
seven people. What do you do for your for your
charging when you're on the road, when you're going around,

(01:19:18):
you know, to make work trips and you can't just
be charging at home every night. What's your experience been
with the US consumer charging network.

Speaker 16 (01:19:27):
Yeah, so I'd say, you know, when it comes to
road trips and things like that, one of the things
that I love about the Vistick it's got I think,
you know, real world mile is roughly around three hundred
and thirty miles of range, and so I've been able
to go from basically Boston down to New Jersey and
almost all the way back on a single charge. I'm
about having to stop and I love it. I love it.

Speaker 4 (01:19:48):
I love the super crews on it.

Speaker 16 (01:19:51):
It's it's a it's probably, in my opinion, one of
the best evs I've driven, and I I've owned I
think close to ten evs in my lifetime.

Speaker 4 (01:19:59):
So love that car. I think when it comes.

Speaker 16 (01:20:01):
To you know, travel charging, you know, I've typically used
the Tesla Supercharger network or Electrify America, any of your
standard EV charging networks.

Speaker 12 (01:20:10):
So what what do you make of the state of
kind of evs in America under this administration which seems
to have been pulling.

Speaker 6 (01:20:16):
Back There's a lot of backlash. It seems like YEP
flows down. But what do you, is there any doubt
in your mind, Josh, that we're all driving EV's in
ten years.

Speaker 4 (01:20:26):
There's no doubt in my mind.

Speaker 16 (01:20:27):
I think, Look, I think what it's going to come
down to is the economics of owning an EV Right.
I think that's really and I think that probably should
have been the focal point from day one.

Speaker 14 (01:20:36):
Right.

Speaker 16 (01:20:37):
Look how much money you're going to save when you're
charging at home.

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
Right.

Speaker 16 (01:20:40):
Look at the time save not having to go to
the gas station.

Speaker 2 (01:20:43):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:20:43):
Look at the experience of just.

Speaker 16 (01:20:45):
Being able to plug in when you pull in to
your driveway.

Speaker 4 (01:20:48):
Right.

Speaker 16 (01:20:48):
I think that is really going to come down to it.
And if you think about it, the low cost of maintenance.

Speaker 4 (01:20:53):
Right.

Speaker 16 (01:20:54):
I can't remember the last time I went to a
mechanic for an oil change. I can't remember the last
time I went to a mechanic because the engine what
came on.

Speaker 4 (01:21:01):
I didn't know what that meant. Right.

Speaker 16 (01:21:02):
The low cost of ownership for an electric vehicle is
ultimately going to push more people to own electric vehicles.
And I think that is why in the next ten
years we're all going to be driving evs, is because
they're going to save so much money to the consumer.

Speaker 6 (01:21:16):
Carol will switch when they drive themselves. She wants her
own personal Weymo at her house in Jersey City.

Speaker 12 (01:21:21):
I do love WEIMO, but I do like you. I
do like the idea of EV's. I don't want to,
you know, I'm concerned about the environment. Hey, Josh, stay
in touch. Josh a ve founder in CEF Spark Charge,
joining us from Massachuset.

Speaker 6 (01:21:33):
You got to get him on my podcast now, Hot
Pursuit with Hannah Elliott.

Speaker 12 (01:21:36):
No, yes you could. Yeah, we'll share, We'll share.

Speaker 1 (01:21:39):
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(01:22:00):
Tube and always on the Bloomberg terminal

Speaker 6 (01:22:09):
MHM

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Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - August 23rd, 2025

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Tim Stenovec

Carol Massar

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