Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - December 12th, 2025 - Bloomberg Businessweek

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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
This is Bloomberg business Week Daily reporting from the magazine
that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies,
and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business, finance
and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Weekdaily
Podcast with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Hi, everyone, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Week Weekend Podcast.
It was the final Federal Reserve meeting of the year.
As expected, FED officials cut rates by one quarter of
a point. There third consecutive interest rate reduction, and I
kind of say the U Essential Bank also again saying
that when it comes to the dual mandate, there are

(00:52):
risks on both sides, and so it's a challenging environment
for the Federal Reserve. The Fed also maintained their outlook
for just one in twenty twenty six.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
This time, there were three descents from both ends of
the policy spectrum, highlighting divisions among policymakers over weakness in
the labor market or stubborn inflation. Vetcher Powell also emphasized
the committee as in a wait and see mode. He
noted that for the third FMC meeting in a row quote,
there is no risk free path forward. We're calling it
also a challenging situation.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, we got the message. Jay Powell got it loud
and clear. Hey, let's unpack. So for the latest do
head over to Bloomberg dot com for the latest on
what economists are expecting for twenty twenty six when it
comes to monetary policy. As for this hour, we're going
to talk about life at the FED after j Powell
with Steve Moore, he's a former economic and strategic advisor

(01:43):
to President Trump during both of his administrations.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
Plus how cutting rates may affect bank lending today and
into next year. Also, we talk power with nexst Era
and they're push to move into data centers and gas.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
I love this. This is one of the big stories,
one of the big stories of the year, one of
the big stories certainly of this week. All of that
to come. We begin with this week's FED decision. President
Trump is expected to announce a new Federal Reserve chair
early in the new year, although there was some speculation
it could come in the next couple of weeks. It's
to say, a moving story, moving target. The next Fed
chair will take over Jay Powell's term, which ends in

(02:18):
May of next year.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
So with them mediate thoughts of this week's FED decision
and on FED leadership come twenty twenty six, We've got
a great roundtable. Steve Moore is with us. He's co
founder and chair of the nonprofit Unleashed Prosperity. He's a
former economic and senior policy advisor to Donald Trump in
twenty sixteen and twenty twenty four, and served as Chief
Economist and Distinguished Visiting Fellow at the Heritage Foundation for
twelve years.

Speaker 4 (02:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
He's also written a bunch of books, including Trump Andomics
Inside the America First Planned to Revive Our Economy? Also
another one, The Trump Economic Miracle, And you might remember
back in twenty nineteen, President Trump selected Steve Moore for
the Federal Reserve Board of Governors, which more ultimately withdrew from.
So we have a lot to unpack and talk about.
Steve joins US from Beach, Florida. Great to have him here.

(03:01):
Also with us is Bloomberg Economics US and Canada economist
Stewart Paul. He's right here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio.

Speaker 5 (03:08):
Steve, I want to kick it off with you. Welcome.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Nice to have you here on Bloomberg. Your key takeaways
from FED decision.

Speaker 6 (03:17):
Well, it was certainly Wall Street was happy with what happened.
It was very expected that that Fed did exactly what
they announced. Trump, of course wants more rate cuts. You know, Look,
inflation has come down, and it's still not where we
wanted to be. We wanted to be at the two
percent FED target, and so we're running about two point

(03:38):
seven two point eight, So there's still work to be
done to bring inflation down. Of course, if you bring
inflation down, affordability goes up. But look, this is a
booming economy right now. It is so hot. Trump is
right about that, and twenty twenty six is going to
be a monster year for growth and for incomes and
I believe for equities.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
If you were on the FOMC and a voting member,
how would you have voted? Would you have wanted to
see I.

Speaker 6 (04:01):
Would have done exactly what they did.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
You wouldn't have gone fifty basis points like Stephen Myron.

Speaker 6 (04:06):
No, I'm a little bit more of an inflation hawk
than Steve and Steven. I know Stephen, he's a smart economist.
I lean towards making sure I think the top priority
of the FED should be to make sure that we
bring that inflation rate down to the target level. We're
not there yet, and you know, look at the as
a political matter, Trump really needs to continue to bring

(04:26):
that inflation rate down because people are still angry about prices.

Speaker 7 (04:32):
Mister Moore, is really difficult to square the circle between
being an inflation hawk and voting for or advocating for
additional rate cuts. When you see somebody like President Trump
focusing so much on affordability, but at the same time
calling for the FED to cut rates even more, how
do you really square the circle? How would you rationalize
voting for a cut while also being an inflation hawk.

Speaker 6 (04:53):
I believe that Wall Street puts way, way, way too
much influence and interest in FED rate cuts. I mean,
nobody the short term interest rate has become almost irrelevant.
So I really don't believe that it's all that important. Frankly,
whether it was a quarter point or fifty percent, you know,

(05:16):
fifty points or doing nothing, I don't think that it
makes all that much difference. We should have learned the lesson.
By the way, look what excuse mean? What we'd all
like to see is for those mortgage rates to come down,
in the ten year treasury interest rate to come down. Well,
the FED doesn't control that. I know that may surprise
people watching this. The Fed has no impact on the

(05:38):
ten year treasury or the thirty year mortgage. And we
know that, by the way, And what happened in twenty
twenty four when the FED cut the discount rate and
what happened to the I mean the FED funds rate,
and what happened to the mortgage rate and the tenure
treasury went up. So I don't overly obsess about Fed
rate cuts. I think we're in a pretty good look.

(06:01):
The most important thing is this incredibly healthy economy. We've
got hundreds of billions of dollars coming into the US
economy of foreign investment. We've got the highest s and
P five hundred, the highest Dow, and the highest NASSE
in the history of the country. People are making huge
amounts of money, and this is a bet when the

(06:22):
markets go up, this is a bet that policy will
be well guided and that American companies are going to
make money. So I have a hard time really having
many much problem with the direction that we're going in
with respect to this economy, and don't forget the starting
in January, people will start to see the middle income
people will start to feel the impact of those big,

(06:44):
beautiful tax cuts that passed in terms of less money
deducted from their paychecks and taxes, and the no tax
on tips, the no tax on overtime. Those are all
positive features that will help middle class Americans.

Speaker 7 (06:58):
That's a really interesting point that fiscal policy is going
to be especially accommodative in twenty twenty six. And I
think that one thing that's interesting is whether we're going
to see monetary policy that's equally accommodative or even more so,
And that's going to really depends on who we get
as theft the next Chairman of the Federal Reserve and
chairman of the FOMC. What do you make of the

(07:20):
White House's floating of a trial balloon with Kevin Hassett
about three weeks ago and then seeming to reconsider You know,
if there's anybody in the world who recognizes how difficult
a process it can be to make it through the Senate,
it's you. And so I'm really interested to hear what
your thoughts on what your thoughts are about what's going
on in the White House and on Capitol Hill in

(07:41):
terms of whipping up the votes to support someone perhaps
like Hassett or wash.

Speaker 6 (07:45):
I like them both. I mean, I think the two Kevins,
I've been saying this for two years now that you know,
it should be one of those two as the FED chairman.
I also like Larry Kudlow, but I don't think Larry
probably is in the running things to do it. But
he'd be an excellent FED share as well. But look,
the two Covens are monetary experts. They're extraordinary economists. I

(08:10):
really truly. Either one of them I think would be
fantastic picks. And I think they would also keep their
eye on the most important thing that the FED needs
to do, which is defend the dollar. Defend the dollar,
make sure that it's strong and stable. That's all the
FED needs to do. It doesn't have to worry about jobs,
it doesn't have to worry about climate change or any
of these other things. The most important thing is to
keep prices stable and the dollar strong, and I think

(08:34):
both would do that.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Steve, you have some great insight into President Trump behind
closed doors. You know he did nominate you for a
FED governor position. You ultimately backed out of it, But
I'm just curious what were your conversations with President Trump
or what insight can you give to our audience, an
investing audience trying to understand read the tea leaves, because

(08:56):
we do have a president that most would agree that
he's transactional, and so I think we're trying to understand
that in terms of any appointments. Is that seen as
an expectation that you're going to do the President Trump's
bidding and listen to him if you are at the
FED in terms of what needs to be done in
cutting rates, if that's what he wants.

Speaker 6 (09:16):
Well, look, my opinion is that it is it is
valuable to have an independent FED, but I also believe
the net the FED needs to be accountable, and in
my opinion, it hasn't been accountable in the last few years.
That's why we got, you know, a nine percent inflation
under the current Joan Powell and well.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
When you say that that nine percent was the result
of the pandemic and incredible demand, I mean there were
some you know, unexpected events.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
That's crazcal policy too.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
Fiscal policy, there was a lot of money slashing around
when you can see that that nine percent inflation, any
president or any fed shair would have had to deal
with that.

Speaker 6 (09:56):
Well listen. I mean, I do think that Trump made
a big miss in that he passed a big, massive
spending bill right before he left office. So could you
make a good point, But it was catastrophic everything that
happened under COVID. We made the biggest mistake in the
history of the United States and shutting down our economy,
shutting down our schools, shutting down our hospital It was

(10:18):
outrageous and I think we've hopefully learned that level lesson
that will never never do it again. But you are
quite correct that what caused the inflation, and I hope
we remember this lesson for many, many decades to come,
is that when you massively spend four trillion dollars, guess
what you're going to have inflation. And it didn't stimulate

(10:38):
the economy. It caused huge, huge reductions and real incomes
for middle class people. It destroyed middle class incomes. They
lost massive amounts of money because we very stupidly printed
all this money and spent it, dropped it out of helicopters.
And that's a policy that's never worked.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
Look, I think I think it's an important you bring
up a lot of important points about what happened during
the pandemic and the causes of inflation. But to Carroll's point,
you know, you do have this direct line to the
White House and to the President. You advised him back
in twenty sixteen, you advised him in twenty twenty four.
How would you characterize relationship with him right now? And
to what extent are you and how often are you
speaking to him about economic matters that hit the United States.

Speaker 6 (11:20):
What I tell him is that I think the tax
cuts have been enormously beneficial, and it's not a commen
date of fiscal policy on the tax side. What it is.
I mean, like one of the most important things we
did in the Big Beautiful Bill was we are allowing
businesses to, you know, instantly capitalize their expenditures and write

(11:43):
them off instantly. And I believe that's one of the
reasons we're seeing this capital boom in the United States.
I mean, if you look at the last nine months,
capital investment has been really strong as a result of
this tax cut. So it wasn't really meant to just
pump money. Economy was meant to incentivize through lower tax rates,

(12:03):
lower lowering the corporate rate, giving expensing, lowering the individual
income tax rate. Those are pro growth, pro supply side
policies that actually help bring inflation down. I mean, it's
very simple. If the economy produces more, prices go down.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
Hey, one of the things I do wanted to go
back to this idea of transactional and again I'm going
to go back to the insight that you have and
having conversations with President Trump before he, you know, made
a nomination for you to join the FED and be
a governor. Because we've heard Jay, the President come out
and say j. Powell has been very bad for our country.

Speaker 5 (12:38):
He's terrible.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
He's a terrible FED chair. I'd love for him to
lower interest rate. I call him too late. I'd love
to fire him.

Speaker 5 (12:45):
Tell us about.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Would there be pressure by President Trump with who he
appoints for the next FED share and would there be
an assumption by the person who takes that position to
kind of do the President's bidding. Give us some insight
if you could.

Speaker 6 (13:01):
Well, I'll put it a little differently. It's a good question.
First of all, when I was nominated to be on
the FED. Trump never really, you know, asked me about well,
would you cut rates or would you raise rates or
so on. He just he had trusted in me as
an economist that I would get it right, so there
was no pressure to, you know, sort of do his bidding.

(13:22):
Now with respect to Kevin Hassett or Kevin worsh which
I think is a good chance it's gonna be one
of those two. What he is doing is picking someone,
you say, do his bidding. He's picking someone who agrees
with his overall economic philosophy, and that's exactly what a
president should do. I don't think that means undue influence
on the independence of the FED, but I think it's basically,

(13:45):
you know, presidents deserve the monetary policy they want, frankly,
and so you know, I think they will they will
do they agree with Trump on monetary policy, and that's
one of the reasons one of the two of them
will be chosen. But I can't think of two economists
I admire more than Kevin Hassett and Kevin Warsh.

Speaker 7 (14:07):
It's interesting that you bring up President Trump's economic philosophy
because I think that if you were to press him
to describe his economic philosophy with regards to monetary policy,
he would just say he's a low interest rate guy.
So is the expectation going to be from you know,
Kevin Hazard or Kevin Warsh that they will just deliver
low interest rates.

Speaker 6 (14:28):
You know, you make a good point. The one thing
that Trump has often said to me is that he
likes low interest rates. And and I've always said, well,
mister President, low interest rates are good, but we also
want to make sure we don't cause inflation. And so
that is the kind of dual competing interests here. But
I think he gets it that you know what destroys

(14:49):
a presidency is inflation for one of whatever. You know,
we saw Jimmy Jimmy Carter lose because of inflation. We
saw Jerry Ford lose because of inflation. We saw this.
I think the major fat during this last of presidential
election was inflation. Americans hate, hate higher prices. It's one
of the reasons they're still in a foul mood on
the economy. So I believe that Kevin Hassett and Kevin

(15:15):
worsh either one of them, will be an inflation hawk,
and they will, I predict, we will bring that inflation
right down to two percent, But.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
One does wonder, since he's not running again, assuming no
third term, that maybe he doesn't care if there's inflation.
I'm just going to put that out there.

Speaker 5 (15:31):
Why don't you want to go somewhere?

Speaker 3 (15:33):
I mean, the Republicans certainly care, and affordability is going
to be a key message for them in the mid
for everybody in the midterm. Hey, we only have thirty
seconds left, Steve. I just want to take a sharp
turn here because, yeah, because you are an economist and
you watch what's happening closely, the US taking a stake
in publicly traded companies such as Intel, MP, Materials and others.

Speaker 6 (15:52):
I don't like it. Hey, wow, no, no, no, never.
You know, I've spent most of my career trying to
advertized not nationalized. So it's one of those issues I
disagree with the President on. I don't want. I believe
in separation of business and state, and the less you know,
the government does to you know, to influence business decisions.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
I think the better your old school that way.

Speaker 6 (16:16):
Yeah, I am.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
It's a different it's definitely a different Republican Party, at
least from a business perspective. Today.

Speaker 5 (16:23):
I think there's a.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
Lot of investors out there too who certainly would agree
with you. Steve, Thank you so much, Really enjoyed this.
Steve Moore, co founder and share of the nonprofit Unleashed Prosperity,
and of course, as we said, a former economic and
senior advisor to President Trump in both of his terms,
and of course are great thanks to our own Bloomberg
Economics US and candidate economist Stewart Paul.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily podcast. Catch us
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Speaker 1 (17:00):
Let's get more on this week's FED decision and really
the macro environment when it comes to consumers and businesses,
and also what we're seeing when it comes to bank
lending today and maybe an outlook into the new year.
One company, one bank paying close attention to this is
Ohio based Huntington Bank Shares. The bank has a market
cap of nearly twenty seven billion dollars in recently has
been expanding with targeted acquisitions. It's had a pretty busy

(17:23):
year tim.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
With perspective on interest rates, the consumer, and the twenty
twenty six financial outlook. We turned to Zach Wasserman. He's
chief financial officer of Huntington Bank Shares, and he joined
us in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. Zach, great to
talk with you again, especially appreciate you coming into the studio.
Did the FED get it right?

Speaker 8 (17:40):
I think they did.

Speaker 9 (17:41):
You know, the analysis they did that showed the labor
markets still, of course softening to some degree, but inflation
pressures continuing to be present and with a potential for
some higher price pressures as we go into the early
part of next year. I think they got it right,
and I think the outlook for they've said they'll probably
one additional cut into twenty twenty six. The market, by

(18:03):
the way, is making in two cuts for twenty twenty six.
Somewhere in that range seems very likely and I think
helpful for the economy at this point.

Speaker 5 (18:10):
All right, Zach, So if you were sitting down with J.

Speaker 10 (18:13):
Powell, what would.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
You want to ask him right now?

Speaker 8 (18:17):
That's a good question. What is he going to do
after he leaves his job?

Speaker 3 (18:19):
Would you do you think he will leave his job
in this ring?

Speaker 8 (18:22):
I would think so that's mine, that's myself.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
But do you think then also Kevin has it is
a given like we're seeing that the President's meeting with
Kevin warsh like, so it feels like things are still fluid.

Speaker 11 (18:32):
Well, I'm not a party to those discussions.

Speaker 9 (18:35):
I have no clue, but I certainly think that you know,
as the uh uh, you know, as they as they
think about how that how they're going to chart their
course on interu straight policy, I think the path that
they've chosen at this point appears to be the right one,
very data reliant, appears to be you know, we're landing
that the economy in a sweet spot.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
Okay, so can can Carol? Are you done with FED stuff?
Can I talk em here?

Speaker 6 (18:58):
Yes?

Speaker 11 (18:58):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (18:59):
To you haven't been so acquisitive. I mean there's been
a lot of M and A in your space. You've
been much more aggressive than others in your peer group.
Why now, in terms of the aggression aggressive posture.

Speaker 9 (19:10):
Well, I wouldn't characterize our posture as aggressive. It's really,
you know, for.

Speaker 5 (19:13):
Us, expansive, that's for sure.

Speaker 8 (19:15):
Well, certainly it's expansive.

Speaker 9 (19:16):
It's been it's been a dynamic year for us, but
primarily from an organic growth perspective, Huntington has been growing
way faster than almost any other bank in the industry
at this point from an organic perspective. And so when
we think about these partnerships that we've announced, with the
pleasure to announce two partnerships this year, it's really all
in service of sustainable, long term organic growth.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
We want to call them partnerships, not acquisition.

Speaker 8 (19:37):
We really do, and that's intentional.

Speaker 9 (19:39):
The the partnerships we've created with Veritechs Bank and then
Cadence Bank, UH really are in fact bringing these organizations together,
making one plus one equals three and for us will
be a powerhouse in Texas, will be present in a
lot of terrific markets across the South, and and really
together we're going to be a much stronger organization. So

(19:59):
they really are partners and ultimately all in service of
long term sustainable organic growth.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
So you know, I've got family in South Carolina. They've
noticed some economic softness, and certainly the very Techs deal
was about North Carolina and South Carolina. They've seen softness
in real estate which had been on fire. I'm just
curious your expansion plans there, your organic growth that you
want to do there. I think you guys were looking
to open more than fifty branches in those states, So

(20:28):
is that impacting any of the growth? Are you on
target for them?

Speaker 8 (20:30):
We're on target for that.

Speaker 9 (20:31):
In fact, next year we expect to open one branch
every two weeks in the Carolina. So we've got some
products for your family, and we'd love to take you
on this customer. But we're really excited about that, and
in fact, the market reception we've had so far has
been tremendous.

Speaker 8 (20:44):
We've opened a.

Speaker 9 (20:45):
Several new branch locations just in the last few months,
and each of them have beat their full year first
year deposit plan before they've even opened, to give you
a sense, because the market reception has been so strong.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
So with the look, I know, you know, I can
ask the question. But in terms of what you have
planned any more acquisitions? You know, look, how are you
thinking about it?

Speaker 8 (21:05):
But the way we're thinking about it is if something
comes up.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
Here hes you just said, they expect more, they expect
more acquisitions to happen.

Speaker 5 (21:13):
Do you know.

Speaker 9 (21:14):
I think the industry has been consolidating for twenty years.
It will continue to consolidate for us. If something comes
up that's that's a creative to organic growth, that's a
great fit for us, will consider it. But otherwise it's
all about organic growth for us.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
Geographically, what's an area of the country that's of interest
to you where you don't have a presence.

Speaker 9 (21:31):
We love the markets that we're in right now, our markets.
We're going to be twenty one states covering more than
fifty percent of the population of the country, and in
markets collectively that are growing thirty percent faster.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
Than the national A lot of states you're not in.

Speaker 9 (21:44):
True, you know, I think our view is we're not
trying to be a national bank.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
We're trying to you're not trying to be a national.

Speaker 9 (21:50):
Stake Explicitly, we want to be deeply present in the
states that we're in.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
So would that mean that if there were more expansion,
it would be within the states that you're already in,
so you can become bigger in those place is rather
than expanding the geographic foot printed places or something fit.

Speaker 8 (22:03):
I think that that's the right characterization.

Speaker 9 (22:05):
Okay, yes, but I think again that's not our Our
objective is not m and a per se.

Speaker 8 (22:08):
Our objective is organic growth.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
The Goldman Financials Conference and I think that's part of
also why the KBW Bank Index really rallied in a
big way, our performance about two and a half percent higher.
They many said, and you guys presented there too, that
they're seeing a stable consumer despite worries of an economic
slow down. What are you guys seeing?

Speaker 9 (22:27):
We're seeing the same. I think we just were up
on stage this morning ourselves. That's the consumer stable, Consumer
pipelines continue to be strong. From a lending perspective on
both consumer and commercial profitability is very strong. Credit is
very stable. It really looks like a solid economy from
our perspective. If all you did was read our internal reports,

(22:48):
it would belie what you're hearing in terms of the headlines,
which is very encouraging as we go into the end
of this year into next year.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
Why do you think you're seeing that distinction, like you're
seeing something The anecdotes and indeed some data are showing
softness in places. Why are you seeing strengths?

Speaker 9 (23:03):
Well, Look, I think in total, you're seeing consumer spending
continues to grow. Corporations I think are more confident today
than they would have been at the middle of this
year when there was more uncertainties in the environment. We've
had a tax bill pass, we've had more teriffs, certainty
come into the environment. The government is now functioning again.
I think as companies are looking forward into twenty six,

(23:25):
they're seeing this is another year of growth.

Speaker 8 (23:27):
The Fed just came out today saying that.

Speaker 9 (23:28):
The outlook for economic growth next year was more than
two percent GDP, and so that looks like an environment
where we should continue to be investing, continue to be expanding,
continue to be expanding. In from a commercial and consumer perspective,
there is of course a bit of a so called
K shaped shaped economy happening, and I think certain segments
of the consumer environment have faced pressures, particularly from inflation

(23:53):
and higher interest rates. Our bank does not have much
exposure to that, and I think in many cases the
net of growth is continued to be.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Who is your typical consumer?

Speaker 9 (24:02):
You know, from us, we're focused on the mass affluent
consumer base, and.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
That's more specifically target we do, okay, sorry forgive me
go ahead.

Speaker 9 (24:10):
We target the mass affluent, and we've got a very
strong base of consumers that are that are.

Speaker 8 (24:16):
In that segment.

Speaker 9 (24:17):
And then of course we also one of the large
and largest small business banks and commercial banks in the
country as well.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
What does mass affluent mean in your markets?

Speaker 9 (24:24):
You know, typically we're looking at customers who have a
net worth of or income of more than a hundred
thousand dollars, net worths that are that are high. And
of course we we bank everyone, and we really our
tagline is welcome to all, and we mean that. But
for the most part, our business is concentrated in that
mass affluent segment.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
From it, so loan origination activity, tell us about what
you're kind of seeing since do you last reported?

Speaker 11 (24:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 9 (24:45):
In fact, we just this morning showed a quarter to
date loan growth of two point eight billion dollars sequentially
from last quarter. Yeah, we're growing at about eight to
nine percent year on year right now, Uh, and actually
exceeding our own forecast that we set just a month ago.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
In the brad press efforts today, I've found what jap
Powis said about AI really fascinating. This idea of productivity,
and it's going to get me to ask every single
person I talked to about how not just how they're
using AI, but like productivity increases at your bank, Like
what are you seeing? How are they using it?

Speaker 9 (25:17):
We're doing a lot in AI actually increasing it sure is.
I mean to give you a sense. Last year, in
the fourth quarter, we had two GENAI projects going through
our risk evaluation and implementation. Today we have thirty. There's
about a dozen per month that are coming into the pipeline.
Software engineering is being made much more more productive. We're
seeing all manner of internal process improvement and now customer

(25:40):
facing applications as well, things that make the loan approval
process seamless and more effective, more personalized service.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
Is that going to increase earnings for you?

Speaker 9 (25:49):
Look, I think it will certainly create capacity for us
to then invest more. You know, our modus operandi is
to harvest and try to drive efficiencies in the baseline
costs can deploy those expenses into investments.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
A few years ago, I used to actually drive up
to make a deposit. I used to talk to a teller.
I mean I was a kid at the time, you know,
and had my little book. But having said that, I
don't talk to a teller for the most part anymore.
So will AI in your estimation? We are talking to CEOs.
Our team, our tech team just did a big AI
report and they're talking to executives across industries. Everybody seems

(26:23):
to be in an AI, but in terms of VET JR. J.
Powell saying AI hasn't really impacted the labor market yet,
will it does?

Speaker 5 (26:32):
It has to?

Speaker 12 (26:32):
Right?

Speaker 9 (26:33):
Look, I think in the end AI will touch almost
every element of human life and commercial activity and ultimately
will supplant many of the more rote processes.

Speaker 8 (26:44):
That we use people to do. But it'll mean people
could do other things. This will be a change in
the in.

Speaker 9 (26:50):
The labor force in terms of what people are are doing,
and there's things that people can uniquely do. Make judgments,
be creative, interact with other people, lead organizations. I think,
you know what's incumbent upon all employees And I think
about this myself, is you know where can I shift
my activities to where I uniquely add value?

Speaker 5 (27:11):
People matter?

Speaker 1 (27:12):
You matter?

Speaker 3 (27:12):
Ah, thank you, Thank you, Jan you matter.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
Zach Wasserman, thank you so much.

Speaker 8 (27:16):
With you.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live
each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple car
Play and the Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.
You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our
flagship New York station, just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Thirty So next with us, we want to get into
what we have been talking about a lot this year, Matt,
and that is the AI and data center build at
It is really one of the biggest stories of really
this year, but also I feel like the last few
years question remains of where all the power needed for
them will come from and who will pay for it?
And on that we had next Era Energy. It's a

(27:55):
clean energy company focuses on wind, solar, and battery storage energy.
They announced plans to expand into net gas natural gas,
including a power plant deal with Exceon and Google, and
plans to buy the gas retailer Symmetry Energy Solutions. The
company also anounce a deal with Meta to supply it
with both clean energy and evaluate a new gas fired
power plant out in the Midwest. And then don't forget back.

(28:17):
In October, the company also made some headlines with plans
to revive a nuclear power plant for Google's data centers.
This has been an all in theme if you will,
this year, So let's get into it with two of
our team members Bloomberg News energy reporters Will Wait and
Josh Saul, both here in studio. So, guys, I mean
deals being made. We know that there's a lot going on, Josh,

(28:39):
let me start with you in terms of significant changes.
Is a lot of this just talk or we're starting
to see action in terms of changes to the grid
adding capacity?

Speaker 5 (28:48):
What are we seeing?

Speaker 13 (28:49):
Thanks, First, I'd say next Era not just a clean
energy company. It's a huge utility. And then they have
a big development arm that historically has done a massive
amount of clean energy. It's changing is that they're going
that development arm is going more and more into developing
gas and then also turning on turning back on a
nuclear power plant in order to power these data centers.

(29:11):
So it's what we saw was really investors looking at
that change and saying we're not sure that that change
is happening fast enough and strong enough for what we expected.

Speaker 4 (29:20):
So but they are like a best in class developer
of especially renewable energy right as well. Hence next Era
can they become a best in class gas developer.

Speaker 13 (29:35):
The investors we talk to think that they can. But
similar to what we've seen with some of the independent
power producers, there's just a really big hunger among investors
to see these deals coming faster and faster, and investors
want more details. They're fine to see a big new
announcement saying that we plan to do things with Google,
but they want to see signed contracts for deals with

(29:55):
price points and timelines. And when we don't see the
those kind of details, we see big share drops.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Well that's it, you know, we'll come on in on
here because I think you know, some of what we
were hearing. I was hearing for a while too, was
that when it comes to companies, especially kind of the
MAGSV and the big hyperscalars, they were signing up or
announcing deals with a lot of different utility companies, but because.

Speaker 5 (30:19):
They wanted to make sure wherever they got.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Their power, they got power, and that maybe not all
of that would be carried out.

Speaker 5 (30:25):
In other words, they wouldn't get power from all of them.

Speaker 14 (30:28):
Yeah, we've seen just deal after deal after deal, all
these tech companies. They need as much electricity as they
can get it, and they need it, They need it yesterday.
They can't bring it on fast enough. And we've seen
a lot of people talking about building power plants, but
we really need to see these plants actually getting built
and getting connected to the grid and sending real electricity.

Speaker 5 (30:51):
Why aren't they getting built? Is it because they're expensive.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
There's regulatory issues, there's where you build them, issues like
what is it?

Speaker 14 (30:58):
There's a lot of regulatory issues. They it used to
be expensive, but tech companies have so much money to
throw at the problem that I wouldn't say that's top
of the list nowadays. But there's definitely connection problems. We
need to build the wiring to deliver the power. There's
just so much stuff that has to happen, you know that.

Speaker 4 (31:17):
I can't remember who wrote it, but a couple of
years ago there was an insane Business Week story about
how difficult it was to put up lines right from
power developers to the end customer and it took, you know,
years and years of trying to get through this regulation.
Is there any sign that this administration is going to

(31:40):
be getting rid of that regulations as it has, you know,
wanted to do.

Speaker 11 (31:46):
I've written stories like that.

Speaker 13 (31:47):
There's a power line that was going through Colorado that
had been planned for seventeen years to get the you know,
to wind energy from Wyoming to you know, all the
people in southern California was where that line was supposed
to go, and it just kept getting hung up on
different things. The Trump administration has made announcements and has
executive orders about clearing out red tape and making all
of this happen faster. But the actual, the actual grease,

(32:11):
the actual what's needed to speed that up, I think
takes even kind of deeper work in these regulatory agencies
on It remains to be seen whether any of that,
any of that bluster, actually ends up.

Speaker 4 (32:22):
To you big executive orders just canceling state regulations on
this and taking over with federal control.

Speaker 5 (32:29):
Well that's the difference, right, because the states have some say.

Speaker 6 (32:31):
In all of this.

Speaker 14 (32:32):
They do, and the executive orders can't just wipe out
existing laws. As much as Trump thinks sometimes he has
that power, he doesn't have all the power he thinks
he has.

Speaker 11 (32:42):
So all of.

Speaker 14 (32:43):
These things that the President has said, we're going to
do this, it really bumps up against the realities of
the regulatory process.

Speaker 4 (32:51):
It does seem like this administration is against certain forms
of power generation wind for example. It's no secret that
Donald Trump hates wind power. He cares a lot about birds,
and he's worried about them.

Speaker 14 (33:06):
He's taken huge steps to make it much harder to
develop wind power and solar power, and he really would
love to see more gas and anything to do with
fossil fuels. But it's it's a short sighted policy. We
really do need everything, and you know, solar is the
fastest thing we can build, but gas is pretty close
to it, and that's probably what we're going to see
a lot of real soon.

Speaker 4 (33:28):
But if we're going to build fifteen giga lots of
power new power production in the next what seven years,
don't we need to use every possible source.

Speaker 11 (33:39):
We definitely, we definitely do.

Speaker 13 (33:40):
But what we saw I was looking I was pouring
through the Next Era release today and you see their
renewable plans kind of going up through twenty thirty, but
then there's the phase out, you know, the Trump phase
out of clean energy tax credits, and then they sort
of plateau.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
Well, the other thing is nuclear, and we've talked a
lot about nuclear like this is not. Everybody's talking about
it like it's going to just happen tomorrow, and it's
that's not the case.

Speaker 5 (34:03):
This is years in the making.

Speaker 14 (34:05):
Still, the line I've been used about nuclear for the
past few months is that there's a lot happening in
nuclear and there's nothing happening in a nuclear So lots
of people are talking about it. There's smart people trying
to do smart things. It just moves slower than anything
else we write about.

Speaker 4 (34:21):
So a nuclear I guess, must be almost as beloved
as coal and natural gas by this administration. Is what
we're seeing with next era is that kind of an
admission that the clean energy, you know, renewable economics without
these tax credits just don't really work out next year.

Speaker 13 (34:41):
It makes the point a lot that the clean energy
is the fastest way to hook up new data centers.
But I think they also see that with kind of that,
with the headwind of the Trump tax credits going away,
they need to in order to get the kind of
earnings growth that investors expect, they have to expand beyond
clean energy and do a lot more gas, which they've
already done with their regular related utility, but they need
to do with their unregulated development arm and they need

(35:05):
to get this data center game really dialed down.

Speaker 5 (35:08):
But we've talked, right, guys.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
I mean, when it comes to wind solar, like these
alternative energy, they financially make sense for a lot of
businesses much more than they did initially. Right, They make
sense in terms of the investment the Coster.

Speaker 14 (35:21):
Are you Wind and solar are the cheapest forms of
new power to build, Yeah, have been for a while.

Speaker 5 (35:26):
So why aren't we doing also?

Speaker 4 (35:28):
I mean, try getting a turbine right now. I mean
it's not glass turbine, no wind propeller, right isn't the
waiting list years.

Speaker 14 (35:38):
It's the gas turbines that we're seeing the biggest waitlist
for these days, and especially because the hostility of the
Trump administration for the wind farms, I haven't heard as
many complaints.

Speaker 4 (35:49):
So you can get the wind turbines, you can get
the windmills.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
You can't get the turbine for your backyard, Okay, but
it's hard to connect.

Speaker 14 (35:57):
There's still a years long wait to connect new power
to the grid.

Speaker 13 (36:01):
Yeah, you run into the same sort of permitting and
roadblocks that you do kind of with anything.

Speaker 5 (36:05):
Well, is the.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
Grid ready for all of this extra energy? I mean, Josh,
I mean that's the other thing that we've talked about,
I feel like for years.

Speaker 13 (36:11):
So that get says another thing that my team has
been talking about the most recently, which is affordability. Just
two steps to get there. Upgrading the grid in order
to add all these new data centers and Also, all
this new clean energy just takes a lot of upgrades,
a lot of a lot of making the grid stronger, better, faster,
more transmission lines running around to connect in both data
centers and also to connect in new new new forms
of power, whether it's a gas plan or solar. All

(36:32):
those upgrades cost a lot of money. Those costs are
spread out pretty broadly among all customers, so we're seeing
big rate increases, both big bill increases UH for customers.
And people are angry. People are really mad. And we
saw that in elections in Virginia and New Jersey, yes,
and we expect to see it in the mid terms

(36:53):
next year.

Speaker 5 (36:54):
It's so funny.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
I was just with a bunch of family down like
in South Carolina, and that's what we talked about power
prices and how they are incented to do things like
you know, air conditioning, do it, I guess at night
or something and so and then turn it off like
when they get up, so that the house stays cool,
but they're not taxing the grid when everybody else is.

Speaker 13 (37:14):
Some of that's good, some efficiency is good, but the
level of anger and people talking about it the way
they've historically talked about gas gasoline prices or more recently
eggs and groceries. The fact that that's now slashing over
onto utilities is a rough thing for these companies to
deal with.

Speaker 5 (37:30):
Is it just likely to get worse?

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Well, because it's just the demand is increasingly there.

Speaker 14 (37:36):
Yeah, we definitely think power prices are going to continue
to go up. We'll hear a lot more about it
next year during the elections. And don't forget about the
cost to upgrade the grid to protect it from climate
change issues, wildfires and hurricanes. That's another cost that's going
to everyone is going to have to bear.

Speaker 13 (37:54):
One way an analysts put it to me is power
bills are going up across the country different different reasons
and different places. Might be going up in California because
of wildfire resilience, might be going up in Baltimore because
of the proximity to Data Center Alley, But power bills
are going up almost entirely across the country.

Speaker 4 (38:10):
Can I just ask on on nuclear will because this
is your bag, right, I get that there won't be
too many new projects coming online anytime soon. Right, you
were down at the opening of a new nuclear plant
in Georgia.

Speaker 11 (38:25):
That was last year.

Speaker 12 (38:26):
I know but okay, I remember you talking about it.

Speaker 4 (38:29):
But what about recommission deal, what about decommissioned plants being
brought back online, like three Mile, like Palisades, Like, how
many of those are we going to see that will
increase the nuclear power capacity.

Speaker 14 (38:41):
There is, it's a short list, and almost everyone on
the list is it's happening now, like the next era one.
That's the jang Armyl plants in Iowa. We heard about
that just a little while ago. There are three Mile
Islands coming on in twenty twenty seven. Palisades is coming
on January February, and after that. There's just not that
any that are good candidates. So we're going to hear

(39:04):
more about the ones. I think people are exploring them.
There's the VC Summer plant in the Carolinas, So people
are looking at doing that for everyone that they possibly
can make an economic case for doing it.

Speaker 11 (39:17):
COO.

Speaker 13 (39:17):
I mean some of the old ones, they cut them
up and took them away. I went and toward one
a few years ago in Vermont, a Vermont Yankee plant,
and that plant was decommissioned when power prices were low.
We were when we were long power, and I went
up there and by the time I went up there,
and I think twenty twenty three, we were starting to
see some of the increase in power demand. And while
I was there, I was a little like, you got
sure you want to cut this up, but I mean
the process that started it was decommissioned.

Speaker 11 (39:39):
They cut the thing apart.

Speaker 13 (39:40):
It was all taken on special trains to Texas where
it's buried very deep in the Texas dirt. Because that's
what you do with radioactive material, can't.

Speaker 5 (39:51):
Texas, I mean, you got to do something with this stuff.

Speaker 11 (39:53):
Can't fire that one back up?

Speaker 5 (39:54):
Hey, guys, thank you so much. Really enjoy this. I'm
really smart. Joshaw Saul, energy reporter at Bloomberg News. Here
in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Will Wait, also energy
reporter at Bloomberg News.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Also right here in studio.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily Podcast. Catch us
live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen
on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app,
or watch us live on YouTube play head on our
second hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week,
including the CEO of Compass Pathways, back with us.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
That's the company behind treating depression and PTSD using silocybin.
We'll get an update on their route to FDA approval.

Speaker 3 (40:37):
Plus tips on organizing a loved one's of state and
the perfect time piece gift. Yes, we're talking about watches
for all types of people in your life. Price tag
included courtesy of our watch guru, Chris Rouser.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
Had lots of gift ideas off of that one. Hey,
first of this hour, It's called the Solar Sunbather.

Speaker 5 (40:53):
It has three wheels.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
It looks like it belongs in outer space. It could
possibly though, hit the roads in twenty twenty six.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
No, it's not a SpaceX tricycle. We're talking about the
futuristic looking solar powered vehicles behind Aptera Motors. This is
a California based solar mobility company. It was formed back
in twenty nineteen. It's in a testing phase to release
its cars on the roads and select states next year.
For more on the company's plans, Carol and our car
lover and very serious driver too.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yes he is.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
Matt Miller caught up with the co CEO of Aptera,
Chris Anthony.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Hey, Chris, good to have you here with Matt and myself.
I know he's going to take over in one minute
because he's our car guy or one of our car guys.
But tell us a little bit about where the company is.
You're in your what sixth year, tell us about where
the car is, where you're going, you're on the road,
you're testing, tell us a little bit about it.

Speaker 15 (41:44):
Yeah, Terara's currently in final validation and we're looking to
press into full production in twenty twenty six, and it's
just exciting to see the vehicle come together and see
solar mobility finally on the road.

Speaker 4 (41:56):
You know, clearly the current zeitgeist is not what you
would consider pro solar car. The administration seems not to
be the biggest fan of alternative energy or renewable energy.
On the other hand, they've given you a ton of
what I must believe are very incentivizing tax rules in

(42:22):
the current one big beautiful bill, especially if you're going
to manufacture in this country, which you are right, Yeah.

Speaker 15 (42:27):
We're manufacturing in Carlsbad, California. But you know, there is
a global supply chain for vehicles like this, and we
hope that you know, there's enough investment in the US
to bring more and more of that supply chain. You know,
over in time, what are.

Speaker 4 (42:44):
The critical pieces that you need, Like what do you
need to import and pay tariffs on and what can
you get from this country in order to build your car?

Speaker 15 (42:56):
You know, initially we partnered with LG. Kim in a
company called CTNS in Korea to make our battery packs.
But we're bringing cell manufacture over to Tennessee and bringing
the equipment over to manufacture our battery packs here in Carlsbag, California.
So that's been assisted by California Energy Commission grant and
we hope to have all that production here in the US,

(43:19):
hopefully by the end of twenty twenty six, maybe twenty
twenty seven.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
What's the most difficult aspect of what you're doing and
trying to create a market essentially for it and then
ramp up, Like what is the trickiest part right here?

Speaker 15 (43:34):
Yeah, you know, most companies start with a minimum viable
product and transportation. You know, it's kind of about the
styling of the vehicle and how many cupholders it has,
how many passengers. That's not really where we started. We
started with how do we make the most efficient transportation possible?
And then it became this solar powered masterpiece that we
have now. But we really didn't know what kind of

(43:56):
market there was. We weren't able to study the market
for something that didn't exist, so we kind of had
to just build what we wanted to bring to the
world and then hope that people really liked it. And luckily,
within the first couple weeks of announcing it, we had
over four thousand orders. Now we have almost fifty thousand
orders for the app Tarra, and you know, we think
people are really excited about transportation built for efficiency's sake,

(44:20):
and something that can be solar powered, something that you
never have to worry about putting gas in at, something
you never have to worry about plugging it in.

Speaker 5 (44:25):
Do you have to worry about range?

Speaker 15 (44:28):
The standard version of the app Terra gets four hundred
miles of range, plus it gets the solar charging that
it gets every day just by leaving it out in
the sun. But we do offer larger range models of
our app Teara up to one thousand miles.

Speaker 4 (44:41):
Of range, so that's easily enough for my daily commute.
The car looks really, I mean, it looks cool, looks weird,
looks different, it's a three wheeler. I guess that would
be so that you can classify it as a motorcycle.
Correct me if I'm wrong. And you've got these outboard
fenders on the front, two wheels and then one wheel

(45:04):
in the back.

Speaker 12 (45:05):
Tell us about the design.

Speaker 16 (45:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 15 (45:06):
You know what most people don't realize is that sixty
to seventy percent of your fuel that highway speeds just
goes to pushing air out of the way if you're
in a typical suv or sedan. So we started, you know,
with aerodynamics when it comes to making transportation more efficient.
That's why it looks more like a fish than a box.
And with something that looks so unique, you also want

(45:29):
to eliminate any weight you can. So it's very light weight,
and that made it three wheels, so there's less rolling resistance,
less weight, and that three wheels has some unique advantages,
and that we're classified as the motorcycle. But because it's
three wheels, you don't have to have a motorcycle's license.
Because you have something over your head, you don't have
to wear a helmet. And in California, evs are no

(45:49):
longer allowed. Brought us admission to the HOV Lane the
High Occupy Vehicle lane, so will be the only EV
that's able to drive in the HOV lane without it
your restrictions.

Speaker 16 (46:00):
So that's interesting that you can get You can sort
of weave through different regulations with a three wheeled vehicle,
and that's why you've seen some of the coolest experimental vehicles,
from the Morgan three wheeler.

Speaker 12 (46:14):
To this app Tara car.

Speaker 4 (46:15):
It's got us room for two people inside, right, as
well as I guess luggage or a pet or whatever
you want to bring along. What's it like when you're
driving around? I mean, everybody must be rubbernecking.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
How come you haven't driven one yet?

Speaker 11 (46:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 12 (46:31):
How come I haven't driven one yet?

Speaker 15 (46:32):
Chris, Well, we need to get you in one soon, Matt.
It's a pleasure to drive. It's super super quiet. It's
kind of eerily quiet because a lot of the noise
you hear in a typical suv or sedan is win
noise buffeting off the vehicle at higher speeds, But because
the Aptera cuts through the wind so nicely, you don't
really get a lot of that. So it's very different

(46:53):
kind of driving experience. It's quick, it's a zero to
sixty and five seconds top speed one hundred miles an hour,
and you know, it's definitely something that gets attention if
you are an introvert to maybe this is not the
vehicle for you initially because any Starbucks that you pull
up to you're gonna bring a crowd.

Speaker 4 (47:10):
But you can take it off the beaten path, right.
I mean, I'm sure I've seen the website because I
recall pictures of maybe the Aptara on a beach or
in the woods. It comes with or you can buy
I guess camping gear or a kit that goes along
with it so that you can get out there. And
plus the fact that it's a solar charging you can

(47:33):
charge with the sun up to forty miles a day, right,
means that you can really take it off the grid.

Speaker 15 (47:38):
It's a little deceptive on the storage. There's actually thirty
five cubic feet of storage.

Speaker 8 (47:42):
In the back.

Speaker 15 (47:43):
If you put the front seat forward and the passenger side,
you have seven feet of space from the tail to
the tips. You can put surfboards back there, mountain bikes,
you can actually leave the hatch up, and there's a
camping kit where there's a tent that goes over the
back of the vehicle so you can camp to people comfortably.
But most importantly, it's very cool to think that you
can drive two hundred miles to your favorite camping spot,

(48:04):
you can camp for a week, and you can come
back with more energy in your app tear than you
left with.

Speaker 5 (48:09):
Unless it rains or no.

Speaker 15 (48:12):
It does get less solar production, you know, if it's
super cloudy or if it rains. You know, if it's cloudy,
you can count on maybe half of the energy production.
You know, if it's a white out snow, obviously you're
not going to.

Speaker 3 (48:23):
Get much solar.

Speaker 15 (48:24):
But it's really a whole new vehicle category, a vehicle
that creates its own fuel. There's never been anything like
it where you purchased the vehicle and you're also purchasing
a lifetime's worth of fuel with it.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
Yeah. Hey, we're talking with Chris Anthony, Co, chief executive
officer of Aptera Motors, joining us from Carlsbad, California. You know,
I mentioned that the company began in twenty sixteen, but
it's really like an iteration of a company that goes
back a while. I think going back to actually two
thousand and six, it was a company. I think it liquidated,
it came back as a second company, and now it's

(48:58):
the third company. Or anything like if someone you know, googles,
it might be like, God, this feels a little uncomfortable.
Anything that connects you to kind of the history of
this company from day one.

Speaker 3 (49:11):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 15 (49:11):
I met Steve Fambreau in two thousand and five. He
had a vision for how to make vehicles more efficient.
It was a bit perplexed that there are some vehicles
on the road that you would think should be efficient.
You know, things that look aerodynamic. You know a VW bug.
Why doesn't that get more than fifty miles per gallon?
It really all comes down to the aerodynamic losses, the
weight losses. So how would you make the most efficient

(49:34):
vehicle possible? And that's what Steve and I set out
to bring advanced engineering too, is if you really tackle
the problem from a first engineering principles perspective, and what
do you end up with? You end up with a
vehicle looks more like a fish. It's about two thousand pounds,
it has three wheels, and it has an electric power train.
That's the most efficient way to get energy to the wheels.

(49:57):
You know, by happenstance. We created something that it's some
three hundred and fifty miles per gallon equivalent, and when
you do that, you can put a relatively small solar
package on top but get really useful range. We get
about forty miles a day of free power just from
leaving the app tear out in the sun. So if
you're like the average American and you only drive thirty

(50:17):
miles a day, forty miles a day of solar charging
is great. You just never have to plug the vehicle in,
You just leave it outside and takes care of all
your average driving needs.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
So, Chris, is this something that you really see for
local driving? I'm curious if it taps out at sixty
five miles an hour or is it?

Speaker 11 (50:35):
Does it?

Speaker 1 (50:36):
How fast can it go and can it be on
highways or what's your vmax?

Speaker 8 (50:40):
Dude?

Speaker 5 (50:40):
Thank you?

Speaker 11 (50:42):
Yeah, you're.

Speaker 15 (50:44):
The suspension handling characteristics are great. You know, it's a
very spirited drive zero to sixty and five seconds, but
you're actually faster, you know, at the upper ends of
the speed. You know, thirty to sixty you know is faster,
and a top speed of one hundred miles an hour.
So definitely driving it on the highway. It's made to
be a southern California vehicle. You know, lots of sun
out here. It's made to be more than, you know,

(51:07):
just a commuter vehicle. You can you know, take it
and you know, do the family shopping. You can you
pick up the kids from the school. You can do
a lot with this vehicle. In terms of usability.

Speaker 4 (51:19):
I also see that it can fit individuals of up
to six foot eight, which is important for.

Speaker 14 (51:24):
Me because you're six want I'm six four, but I
want six.

Speaker 12 (51:28):
I need leg room, right, I don't.

Speaker 4 (51:30):
I get claustrophobic and normal cars and planes, so I
need my space. And by the way, as you're to
sixteen five seconds, when I was in college, that was
what a nine to eleven was doing. So that's respectable,
really respectable. I mean there's still a lot of cars
that can't do that. Of course, you got the instant
torquere getting up to one hundred miles an hour. I

(51:51):
rarely exceed that speed when I'm driving to and from work.

Speaker 12 (51:55):
I try to come close when there's nobody around. How
many orders have you got for this?

Speaker 4 (52:00):
I mean, how many people do you think you're going
to sell this car to when it goes into final production.

Speaker 5 (52:05):
Justus twenty seconds.

Speaker 15 (52:06):
Yeah, we've got almost fifty thousand orders, but we hope
to deliver up to a million Appteara in the next
ten years. It took Tesla thirteen years to deliver their
million vehicles. We hope to do it in ten.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
Well, I can't wait for Matt to try it out
and report back, and then you can come back on
with us. Chris Chris Anthony, co CEO of Epterra Mortars
joining us.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple car
Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You
can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship
New York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
Well, remember when we couldn't stop talking about psychedelics and
their potential use for treating a range of related mental
and physical health conditions. Well this was during and just
after the pandemic. But then in twenty twenty two we
saw prices collapse. Money was pulling out investors off, and
trial results weren't what they needed to be Well, it's

(53:04):
now having a resurgence.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
Just this year, US Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F.
Kennedy Junior said he could envision approval for psychedelic drugs
as treatment for depression and trauma if clinical studies have
been conducted. Plus Bloomberg Intelligence analysis estimates that the market
could grow to seven billion dollars in sales by twenty
thirty two. Analysts say that market potential quote is clear,

(53:27):
but companies could still run into issues with regulators and
in scaling up.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Yeah, still not a straight path forward. Hey back with
an update though, on his company's path two FDA approval
for some of the psychedelic treatments we put up with
Kabir Noth. He's chief executive officer of the small cap
five hundred and fifteen million dollar market cap company Compass Pathways.
Kaber joined us alongside Alexis Christopherus, who was filling in
for Tip.

Speaker 17 (53:51):
So we're excited about the fact that we're now in
a position to potentially accelerate getting this medicine to patients
who so urgently needed. Let me remind that there are
three million patients living with persistent depression in the US.
Fewer than five percent of them today are treated with
a medicine that was actually specifically studied for or is

(54:11):
approved for treatment resistant depression. And this is depression that
is chronic, it's refactory. Often people are unable to work.
It has dramatic direct healthcare costs in terms of costs
of emergency room admissions in psychiatric care, but it also
has real social costs for these people. So what's changed

(54:31):
is we've had a really excellent conversation with the FDA
about their desire to see subject to us to continuing
to produce really strong results in terms of efficacy and safety.
Their desire to see this moved more quickly. We've completed
the enrollment in our second final stage study, which we
did ahead of expectations, which is really down.

Speaker 5 (54:51):
To the great Phase three.

Speaker 17 (54:52):
This is a Phase three. This is the second of
our final stage studies. We've completed the enrollment of that.
We expect to have the the primary data from that
in first quarter of next year. That will give us
the second of our final stage studies. And with that
we are actually excited to be able to submit that
to the agency and look to an accelerated approval.

Speaker 5 (55:12):
Wow, that sounds like a really big move.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
I'm curious just remind us and we were talking with
our healthcare team, how you guys designed the trials or
research program to avoid some of the pitfalls that we've
seen with I think about the ecstasy and the mm
MDMA drug application that was for PTSD. How did you
guys avoid some of those pitfalls.

Speaker 17 (55:33):
So first we had the opportunity to learn from some
of the lessons. We've been in an excellent dialogue with
the FDA now for some six or seven years since
we first started this time, since this process, Yeah, as
we know drug developing new medicines takes a long time
on a lot of commitment. Yeah, we've done this in
a very robust and rigorous way. We are collecting full

(55:54):
side effect data. We're collecting all the issues, not just
your potential side effects such as headache and fatigue, which
are transient, but also things like king and so on,
to make sure that there is really no abuse potential
for this, and we've been collecting that right from this.

Speaker 5 (56:09):
Is there any abusive potential for this?

Speaker 17 (56:11):
There is no history in psilocybin of people actually seeking
it out or of any abuse potential with psilocybin, which
is an important point.

Speaker 10 (56:17):
I'm putting my investor hat on for a moment, and
I need to ask you about intellectual property and how
you handle something like that, because psychedelic compounds don't sort
of fit comfortably into that compound if you will, because
a lot of them are natural, they can't really be
patented if you will. So how do you deal with that?
And to what extent is your medicine? You know, hold

(56:38):
patents or have intellectual property.

Speaker 17 (56:39):
So our medicine comp. Three sixty is a fully synthetic
formulation of psilocybin. Okay, we have polyfomorph patents that address that,
and therefore we have robust protection till twenty thirty eight,
with the potential for extension around that because again we
went for a fully synthetic modern medicine.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
Have you talked to direct with the Health and Human
sec Secretary Robert F.

Speaker 5 (57:05):
Kennedy.

Speaker 17 (57:06):
We are focused on an excellent relationship with the psychiatry
division of the FDA. Okay, we've been working with the
same folks for seven years.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
We have certainly made some commentary around this that has
given you hopes and expectations that this would move along
more rapidly.

Speaker 17 (57:20):
We're happy that there are senior figures in the administration
who believe like us in the potential for psychedelic therapy.
But we're really focused on delivering the right efficacy and
safety through our studies and working directly with the division
that's going to approve US.

Speaker 10 (57:34):
SO Trial three third phase next year. Early next year,
give us an idea of a timeline. I mean, when
might we see something like this come to market.

Speaker 17 (57:44):
We will get the primary data, as I said, in
first quarter of next year. We will need to submit
some more data later in the year, but we are
looking forward to being in a position to complete a
submission to the FDA in the latter part of next year,
and then we'll work with them as expeditionally as possible
on a potential regulatory approval.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
SO twenty twenty six, twenty twenty seven, Like, what's I know,
this stuff all takes long, and I know we constantly
am asking you, but I think because it's been so
much out there for a while, a decade and then
some right, I think we're all trying to do, certainly
for an investing audience, understand when this actually hits the market.

Speaker 17 (58:20):
We are preparing to be ready for a commercial launch
from the end of twenty twenty six.

Speaker 10 (58:25):
Ah, you said it, well, thank you.

Speaker 5 (58:27):
What is something like this? What is something like this cost?

Speaker 10 (58:30):
That's the question.

Speaker 17 (58:31):
So it's premature to discuss the pricing for this in
the moment. First, we actually still need to see some
of the longer term results from our studies. In particular,
we need to see over the course of the first
six months, what the potential for a second dose is
and really therefore how many potential sessions that a patient
may need to have in a given year.

Speaker 10 (58:50):
That's a great question because you're talking sessions. So this
is not a drug that someone would continue to take
or a lifelong sort of drug, if you will.

Speaker 17 (59:00):
Absolutely, and it's a really important point there. What we
have shown in our studies so far is that a
single session can produce a dramatic response that lasts for
six weeks. Today, either it's a daily oral or there
is a product esketomy which you will need to take
maybe thirty to fifty times a year. What we are

(59:21):
showing is truly transformative. Therefore for these patients with this
infrequent session.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
So we're talking with Kabir or notth He's chief executive
officer of Compass Pathways ticker is CMPs. He's here in
our Bloomberg studio, Bloomberg headquarters, Kair. One of the things
I think about then, is if all goes as you anticipate,
and you've talked about the market for like who this
is for specifically, then do you move on to other
uses and other treatments, whether it's PTSD, whether it's drug addiction, Like,

(59:51):
I'm just curious how far you can go with this.

Speaker 17 (59:54):
Yes, thank you, Carol, And we are designing have in
fact already designed and finalized the design of a study
in PTSD. PTSD affects thirteen million people in America, and
while there's this view that it's prevalent among veterans and
so on, it absolutely is that's actually only around fifteen
percent of that.

Speaker 11 (01:00:13):
Population, only fifteen percent fifteen.

Speaker 17 (01:00:15):
Percent, actually sixty percent of people suffering with PTSD are women,
and so this is a very large population. The only
two drugs medicines approved for PTSD were approved in the
last century, so this is something new, something different, and
so we are very excited about that we have designed
a study and that we will be kicking that off

(01:00:36):
next year.

Speaker 10 (01:00:37):
I want to go back to the question of price.
So what about insurance and how does that play a
part in all of this?

Speaker 17 (01:00:44):
From the get go, Compass were set up in order
to ensure broad and equitable access for patients, and that
means the ability to work with insurers, both commercial and government.
With the data, we've already shown, as I say, a
single administration producing statistic significant result reductions in depressive symptoms
after six weeks, we've already started to demonstrate the value

(01:01:08):
that this.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
Can bring to the healthcare system.

Speaker 17 (01:01:10):
Patients living with persistent depression frequently end up in the
emergency room. They sometimes have in patient's psychiatric care. There
are direct costs to healthcare systems, and we have already
started to demonstrate the value.

Speaker 5 (01:01:22):
You know, and forgive us Kamiir.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
We do keep going back to I know you can't
talk about price or your guys are figuring that out.
But we kicked off saying, according to our Bloomberg intelligence
team that this market psychedelic drug development could go to
seven billion dollars in sales by twenty thirty two. How
much of that do you think is or how much
of that market size do you think you could get?

Speaker 5 (01:01:44):
And I'm just trying to I'm curious.

Speaker 17 (01:01:46):
So we have the potential to be ahead of other
companies in this market by two to three years, and
we're excited about the opportunity to treat lots of patients.
So for us, this is about the ability to make
inroads into those three million patients that need a new
treatment option. The only medicine that's actually approved and is

(01:02:07):
being really promoted for this population today is treating maybe
seventy to one hundred thousand patients, so that population of
three million, So what we're excited about is the ability
to bring this new medicine to those patients.

Speaker 5 (01:02:20):
Is it a billion dollar DOUG drug? Would you anticipate We.

Speaker 17 (01:02:23):
Would hope that if we can successfully treating.

Speaker 11 (01:02:29):
A large number of.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Patients, especially if you get and you expand out, do
you go for other uses?

Speaker 5 (01:02:35):
Yeah? Do you go alone?

Speaker 11 (01:02:36):
That's our intention.

Speaker 17 (01:02:37):
We've always said clearly that we believe that we can
do this on our own in the US market, and
that's our intention.

Speaker 10 (01:02:42):
All right, What about side effects? I mean, folks are
listening to this, A lot of folks are hoping that
this is all going to work and come to market
sooner rather than later. What are some of the side
effects though.

Speaker 17 (01:02:52):
So on the day of dosing, there's some headache, some nausea,
and that passes by the second day at most, because
this is a day in a treatment center. We have
a fully independent group of scientists and clinicians that reviews
all our safety data on a regular basis. They have
access to data from all arms of our studies and

(01:03:12):
they have seen no unexpected or concerning side effects.

Speaker 8 (01:03:16):
That have caused them to alter the course.

Speaker 17 (01:03:18):
Of the study in any way.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
And just remind everybody, and we just got about forty
seconds co here. Right when it is given to a patient,
there are folks around to really watch the process, make
sure things go.

Speaker 10 (01:03:29):
You're not taking this into the bathroom by yourself.

Speaker 17 (01:03:32):
This is very much delivered in a safe environment, in
a medical environment, with somebody in the room who is
medically trained, who's there just to assure patient safety and comfort.

Speaker 5 (01:03:41):
Do you see the finish line.

Speaker 11 (01:03:44):
I absolutely do. And we're excited about that potential.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
I just think how long we've been reporting on it
and talking about it. It's really fun to kind of
be on this journey.

Speaker 5 (01:03:51):
I'm just with you.

Speaker 10 (01:03:52):
I'm just wondering quickly regulatory hurdles in twenty twenty six.
Do you think that it is going to be a
more friendly regulatory environment with the Chiatry division.

Speaker 17 (01:04:00):
We have an excellent relationship and that's been consistent of
a six seven years, and we expected that to come.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
Yeah, it sounds like you've been talking to them for
a long long time. Kabir, Thank you, Nice to have
you in studio. Kabir not his chief executive officer of
Compass Pathways joining us right here.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Applecarplay and
Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also
listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York
station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
Over the next couple of decades, an estimated ninety trillion
dollars in assets will be passed down from the Silent
generation and Baby Boomers to their Gen X and millennial airs.
But this so called great wealth transfer has a confounding corollary.
Our parents haven't just been accumulating money, They've also been
accumulating stuff, so much stuff, so writes Bloomberg Pursuits Editor

(01:04:59):
at Large Chris Rouser.

Speaker 3 (01:05:01):
With us on tips on what to keep, sell and donate,
and just the concept in general, the history of it,
why as Americans and when we started collecting so much stuff?
Is Chris Rouser. Chris's story is The Pursuit's cover story
of the December issue of BusinessWeek magazine. It's available now online,
on the terminal and on newsstands. I kind of want
to start with PEZ dispensers, because that's how you start

(01:05:24):
the piece. But this was a great piece, Chris. It's
not just for people who have elderly people in their
lives with a lot of stuff. It's also if you
have a lot of stuff in your life, you can
take a lot away because there's a lot tied up
in physical things, memories, just feelings holding on to things, history, fear. Yeah,

(01:05:47):
it's really complicated.

Speaker 18 (01:05:48):
It's very complicated. So starting with Pez, which is a great.

Speaker 3 (01:05:51):
Which is a great place to start.

Speaker 18 (01:05:53):
Nick Malice is a comedy writer in la who I
encountered while reporting for this story, and his had these
two great, big lofts and soho in New York. Sounds
very glam but they were filled with stuff and it
was a range of stuff that was like a little junkie,
Like she would pick up shelves from the street and

(01:06:14):
bring him into her apartment and then fill them with stuff.
But a lot of that stuff was really good, Like
she was an avid collector. She had like partied with
Andy Warhol. She had some really good pop art. And
Nick had to go through these two apartments that were
jammed to the ceilings, and it took him years, and
he found, throughout all of his exploration and dealing with it,
ten thousand pez dispensers. Oh my god, you think that,

(01:06:39):
like your parents have a lot of stuff. His mom
had a ton of stuff, and it was very difficult
to deal with. As I said, it took years, but
throughout the process and he found that it actually brought
him closer to her, going through all of her stuff
and taking the time and learning about what she cared
about and all the cool stuff that she left to
him as his inheritance. So I went into this story thinking,

(01:07:00):
all right, well, this is a problem that like we're
all annoyed about, like both our parents' generations, my generationserations below.
But also there's like there can be some upsides and
there can be some beauty to it. So let's go
in with a positive attitude.

Speaker 5 (01:07:11):
Well, I love what he said that in going through it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
I'm sure he was incredibly overwhelmed at the beginning, right,
but then understanding like as he went through them, like
he got a better feeling about his mom, yeah, and
who she was.

Speaker 18 (01:07:22):
And the key thing that Nick did, which everyone should
consider doing, is he got help. He got his friends
to come in and help. He paid people to come
in and sort the best dispensers. He got someone from
Antique's road show to look at that really good stuff.
There's different tiers of help. But you can get an
organizer to come in and do everything. You can get
a junk company to come and get rid of everything,

(01:07:42):
or you can go through stuff if you really want
to and sort of set it up into different categories
like valuable, not valuable, whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
But a key thing is is help.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
I have to say, like both my parents have passed away,
and I remember my mom was quite the collector. And
it was Humbles, it was Gompere, it was Deal, it
was a lot of stuff. Humbless are classic, and I
just remember going through stuff and there was a point
where we got so tired of going through stuff, like
we were just putting stuff out on the curb, and
in the process we threw out a clock that was
actually pretty valuable, but we just were just so overwhelmed.

(01:08:14):
So how do we kind of go, like, talk to
us a little bit about the experts that are out
there that help us with this process to figure out
what's valuable, what do you keep, what do you pass on,
what do you throw out?

Speaker 18 (01:08:23):
Yes, so there is a whole cottage industry that's set
up to deal with exactly with this. Some people call
it generational decluttering, which is not only when people are
passing stuff down to the next generation, but maybe they're
just downsizing because they retired, they don't need so much space,
and they don't know what to do. So you can
get an organizer who will really help you go through everything.
They'll give you organizational tools, which we all need. They'll

(01:08:46):
help you digitize photos. They have all these tools that
like you don't even think about that will shrink the
stuff that's in your house and they'll get this stuff
out of your house. And these are people who are
practiced at it. They're emotionally sensitive. I talked to some
really cool people who have are really thoughtful, and it's
hard to get stuff out of the house. You know people,
you know, our parents, their parents were depression era, so

(01:09:08):
they wanted to hold on to stuff. They want to
hold onto paper records.

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
Going to dacist because I think I think about, like
why the heck do I I've actually talked about this
with my therapists, like why do I have to hold
on to so much stuff? Yeah, like even after my
parents are passed, like it's like these aren't them anymore,
but it's like silly things like even seeing their handwriting,
Like why, But what is it about that we got
to this point.

Speaker 18 (01:09:28):
It's a lot of things. So, like I said, our
parents grew up with depressionary.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
Our parents.

Speaker 18 (01:09:32):
If you're like an aging millennial gen X, you grew
up in a house where like people saved stuff against
maybe future emergencies, like maybe your parents had nine flashlights
in a drawer because like, you never know when you're
gonna need it. Anyone younger than us, younger than thirty five,
grew up with Amazon, so they are you know, and
they grew up with the Internet, so they are everything

(01:09:53):
is immediately available. Things are not as high quality as
they were, like products, home products, especially as they used
to be or as beautiful from like the early twentieth century,
so they don't have that association of this is nice,
we should keep it, whereas our parents and even us, like,
it's hard for me to get rid of books.

Speaker 11 (01:10:09):
I feel like books should have a future.

Speaker 5 (01:10:11):
Yeah, have you seen my desk.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
I can't get rid of books.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
Oh, I've changed my thoughts completely on books.

Speaker 5 (01:10:16):
I know you have.

Speaker 3 (01:10:17):
You got to get rid of books. Everything's on my kindle.
It just we live in New York City. There's not
enough room for books. Do it all on your kindle
and be done with it. Yeah, I mean I know
it closed too.

Speaker 1 (01:10:27):
Can I just say though I thought it was interesting.
I just was say, like the china collection and then
the china cupboards. I remember my grandmother like a massive
and then my mom had them, and it's like I
have little ones. But it's it's like getting away from
that that that you had these things then you displayed them.

Speaker 18 (01:10:42):
Yes, and that is that's a thing. When the middle
class in America was born, and like starting in the
mid nineteenth century, that when we started having factories and
middle managers and all these people going in through the
beginning of the twentieth century, That's when Tiffany started making silver.
That's when people could afford it was either before that
it was either like extremely rich people or working class. Right,
and then there were oh, mass produced things could be

(01:11:05):
actually beautiful and we could own a lot of them,
and we should display them to show like where we
have reached as a family. And then that created this
like snowball of like we should show our China, we
should have fine silver that we don't use, that goss
us where we are today.

Speaker 3 (01:11:20):
I love the dive into the industrial revolution in this
piece and really what brought the American middle class on
our obsession or fascination with stuff. What I also love
about the piece, Chris, is it required some self reflection
from you and also some anecdotes from you about this
happening while you were essentially thinking about this piece. Talk
to us about your dad's gun collection.

Speaker 18 (01:11:40):
So my dad's gun collection was the reason why I
thought of this piece. Actually, my dad has something like
seventy guns he'd been collecting since he was a kid.
So some of them are historical, some of them had
a lot of emotional resonance, and he has a room
in his house that we call the Second Amendment rooms
full of guns, and my brother and I live in
the city, in New York City, we don't want a

(01:12:01):
lot of guns around.

Speaker 3 (01:12:02):
Well guns are not there as certain guns. It's very
hard to legally have a gun in New York City.

Speaker 18 (01:12:06):
Yeah, and also a lot of them are hunting rifles
and I don't hunt a lot. So my dad decided,
he was like, you know what, I don't. I'm mostly
just cleaning these, like I don't really use a lot
of them that much, and it's time for me to
get rid of them so my kids don't have.

Speaker 11 (01:12:20):
To deal with it.

Speaker 18 (01:12:21):
So he I was so proud of him. He photographed
all of them. He made like a PDF. He put
out an RFP to dealers to be like, who will
give us me the best offer on this? All throughout
New England. He lives in Maine, and then a guy
at the Kittery Trading Post in southern Maine was like,
this is my offer, and my dad said, that's great,
And he asked my brother and my step siblings which

(01:12:41):
guns we wanted, and then he just sold all the
rest of them the guy at the Kittery Trading Post
and I was like, this is amazing. I love this
and so I told my mom and she was like, wow,
that's awesome. What about all the wooden mallards.

Speaker 3 (01:12:55):
What's the market collected? Yeah, my dad, what's the market?
What's the market for wooden mouth?

Speaker 11 (01:13:00):
So there is a.

Speaker 18 (01:13:00):
Market for wooden mallards, and there are markets for all
these things. You think no one wants to silver, and
you think no one wants china, and that's like in
brown furniture, and that's sort of true. But like the
elite stuff, the best stuff, actually there is still a
market for it. So like you can, you can go
through and find the people that want the wooden mallards.
And I thought, okay, this is something I gotta do
a story.

Speaker 5 (01:13:19):
Oh my god, I just I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
I love it.

Speaker 5 (01:13:21):
I think it resonates for so many of us.

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
Well, I'm just going to say, if you go through stuff,
you might be able to pass it off as get
gifts this holiday season.

Speaker 12 (01:13:29):
Yeah, or or if not.

Speaker 1 (01:13:32):
Actually, in our family we've sometimes done that, like passed down.

Speaker 3 (01:13:34):
Does anyone in your family have a watch collection.

Speaker 12 (01:13:37):
I have a little bit of a watch clo.

Speaker 3 (01:13:39):
Oh okay, well that's a perfect segue, So.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
Tell us about you actually give us a gift guide
for every specific person in your life when it comes.

Speaker 3 (01:13:47):
To watching, which is a great way to organize it
because it's not like, Okay, these are the best watches
for under three hundred dollars, These are the best watches
for under a thousand, These are the best watches that
are one hundred thousand dollars. This is the best watch
for this person in your life. I love that.

Speaker 18 (01:13:59):
Yeah, thanks, Yeah, you know, normally I do the price
point gift GUIDs. This year, I was like, I'm going
to actually go through specific situations that people have already
come to me to ask for a gift or for
a watch for themselves. My nephew recently asked he wants
like a steel watch to take on job interviews because
he's going to graduate college. So I recommended a Tiso,
which is a very reasonably priced brand, really good Swiss watches.

(01:14:23):
A lot of people ask me, they're like, I'm buying
my first serious watch, and I send them to a
multi brand store where they can look at a lot
of different watches. They always come back either with a
Rolex or an IWC, so I recommend some IWC's. One
of my friends has got a new finance job, and.

Speaker 12 (01:14:38):
He love this one.

Speaker 18 (01:14:40):
Everyone in my office wears a different watch every day,
of course, and I was like, I want to work
in that office, So.

Speaker 1 (01:14:46):
Do you not have a watch to where every day different?

Speaker 5 (01:14:50):
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
I'm thinking you you're on it. The nonprofit lawyer, can
I just say for a nonprofit lawyer? I was curious about,
like what you were going to come up with.

Speaker 18 (01:14:58):
I was not expecting still a lawyer, still a lawyer. True, this,
it's funny. We actually went through and Felix on my
team asked chat GBT for the same recommendations, and chat
GPT came up. I think it must have scraped the
story because although we don't let people scrape our stuff,
but because it came up with a lot of the
same recommendations. And for the non profit lawyer one, it

(01:15:20):
came up with the exact same brand, no most class shoota,
which is very it's like pretty obscure. I was like, CHATCHBT,
you've been listening, but this is my friend is an
immigration lawyer in Chicago, an incredible, incredible person, and he
was like, I want to grown up watch to like
celebrate my milestones and my marriage but I can't be
like a crazy rich person watch.

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
And so I love this watch. Yeah, I love it,
really beautiful. But for all you guys out there, if
you're looking to get something for the woman who wants
an understated.

Speaker 3 (01:15:50):
Classic Cardia, that tank wise, it's always the tank.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
It's always the tank.

Speaker 3 (01:15:54):
All right?

Speaker 5 (01:15:54):
Do we have to go?

Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
We have to go, Chris Rouser, never enough time. Thank
you so much. Happy holidays, So glad we could do that.

Speaker 3 (01:16:00):
Listen, how did you describe the Cardia tank?

Speaker 8 (01:16:03):
Oh?

Speaker 18 (01:16:03):
I said, If you're buying a woman an expensive watch
and you're not considering a Cardia, you're a lunatic.

Speaker 3 (01:16:09):
There we go. Amen, Amen, Chris Rouser, Bloomberg Pursuits Editor
at Large.

Speaker 1 (01:16:14):
And that wraps up our weekend edition, a Bloomberg Business
freek from Bloomberg Radio. Thank you so much for joining us.
I'm Tim Steinbeck and I'm Carol Masser. Have a good
and safe weekend. Maybe clean out some stuff, just recommending.

Speaker 2 (01:16:25):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday
afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com.
The iHeartRadio app tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app.
You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube

(01:16:46):
and always on the Bloomberg terminal

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Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - December 12th, 2025

Episode Transcript

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Tim Stenovec

Carol Massar

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