Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - July 4th, 2025 - Bloomberg Businessweek

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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
This is Bloomberg business Week Daily reporting from the magazine
that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies,
and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business finance
and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week
Daily Podcast with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Hi, everyone, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Week Weekend Podcast
and a very happy fourth of July. Well just about
one week ago, we were live in Southampton, Long Island
at the Uncharted Community Summit. It's an annual gathering of
over five hundred members of the entrepreneurial community, and over
the next two hours we will bring you some of
our favorite conversations from that event. We'll hear from voices

(00:54):
on artificial intelligence. In fact, I felt like everybody had
a view when it came to AI. We talked capital
markets and women's health. Plus we sit down with a shark.
First up, though, we caught up with one of the
co founders of the event, I've Uncharted and the man
whose backyard we were literally broadcasting from. He is Michael Loebe,
founder and CEO of lob dot NYC, who started off

(01:18):
by telling us why this event is so important.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
If you were to take a look at the background,
you would see, you know, six hundred people talking to
six hundred other people. It's quite the event. And what
we really want to do is foster relationships between investors
and companies, between companies and companies, and between you know,
CEOs looking for talent and talent looking for CEOs. So

(01:45):
I think I think a good time is being had
by all.

Speaker 4 (01:49):
You know, an event like this. You've been doing this
for a few years and started during the pandemic, started
a lot smaller. How do you and I heard you say,
and your partner say this too, Noah, that he is
running into people say, yeah, they raised money as a
result of being here. They found a co founder here,
they found employees here. How do you measure the success
of an event such as this in the days, weeks

(02:09):
and months following it?

Speaker 3 (02:10):
Right? I wish we could because I should have a
big on all that.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yet you don't know it for a long time.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
So you know, I got to tell you we do
solicit testimonials of exactly the things that you're talking about.
We have quite a few of people saying, you know,
I met my founder there about two years ago. Uh no,
and I get an invitation and it was shrouded in mystery,
and it was three women who had us go to

(02:39):
an event downtown and they brought us up on stage.
Everybody started a collap And what that was is these
were three women never met before. They were all, you know,
elite athletes, and they decided there should be a fund
supporting elite athletes that they had a different point of view,
a different sense of how to compete, and they all

(03:03):
got along very very well. And that thesis led to
a fifty million dollar fund. So it's that type of
thing that you know, really propels us.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Well, talk to us about you know capital, How much
is out there for startups?

Speaker 3 (03:13):
Wow? You know it's funny things go in cycles. As
you know, this is not an up cycle for capital formation.
Last numbers I looked at and they're a little bit stale,
but you know, down sixty or seventy percent. Certainly the
secondary market, if that's any indication at all, does illustrate that,

(03:35):
you know, there's a lot of ill liquidity looking to
get liquid, not nearly as frothy as it used to
be was IPOs, even though that's starting to unlock a
little bit. So no, it's it is hard and the
money does gravitate these days to AI, so you need,
you know, if you have.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
So when there is an idea, when there is a startup,
that's where it goes.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
It goes there, right. And what folks don't I think,
really realize or appreciate is the forces at play in
venture and venture funding and venture capital, which is I
sometimes call it a beauty contest, and that is because
there's one breakout winner in a category and then all

(04:18):
the LPs are asking their gps, you know, what is
your AI strategy? And if the answer is you know,
we think it's a little over sold. We think it's
a little bit you know, frothy. Whereas there's going to
be a couple of winners and a lot of losers,
weird taking a wait and see attitude. The answer is
bye bye, I'm bringing my money to that fund that

(04:39):
made that investment, so a lot of pressure for them
to jump in. And it's in those situations that you know,
not so good deals are made. Right.

Speaker 4 (04:48):
So yeah, does it you know, in terms of cycles,
does it feel like this AI cycle is different than
previous tech hype cycles. And the reason I ask and look,
nobody wants to hear or utter the phrase this time
is different. But it If you look out at the
private markets right now, you've got skyhag evaluations. I think
many would argue for open AI right, for anthropic, for perplexity.

(05:10):
You have meta platforms coming in and dropping billions of
dollars to buy forty nine percent of an AI company
that barely existed. You have founders being poached. We're talking
one hundred million dollar signing bonuses. Yeah, force an individual
to go to a large company.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
Right. So I'm I look at my mailbox every day.
I'm looking for one hundred million dollar check hasn't come
in yet. Right to me, it feels different. Now, what
does it feel like? I've been around for long enough,
so I'm something of the elder statement here, statesman here,
I've been around long enough that I've seen a few cycles.
This feels like the late nineties and the late nineties

(05:49):
was the advent of the internet, right, and it feels
this profound now. You know, people can say, well, you know,
if we look back two or three years, it was
NFT and that was a false positive, and before that
it was blockchain, which was sort of a false positive.
And before that it was cannabis, and before that it
was bitcoin. But this one feels real, and this adds

(06:13):
the possibility of disrupting entire industries. I had breakfast, by
the way, with a friend. He has a unicorn business
is worth almost two billion dollars. He has two hundred
and seventy people, and he said, Michael, by year end,
it's one hundred and twenty.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
That's Michael Loebe, founder and CEO of Lobe dot NYC,
and got to say a very very gracious host. We
turned out to his Uncharted Community Summit colleague and co founder,
Noah Friedman. He's the CEO of the organization, and he
told us why this event is also so special.

Speaker 5 (06:45):
The most important thing in the truth of what I
charge is all about is what's happening right now, which
is people just mingling and met to each other. What
we really care about here and what gets me excited
as an entrepreneur is environment when I can kind of
go up to anybody, shake their hand and say hello,
and trust that they're going to be friendly knight and
more important, someone who I can build with so I
like to think that's what happened behind me, and I'll
get the verdict from you guys and everyone else afterwards.

(07:07):
If we did our jobs.

Speaker 4 (07:08):
What's being built right now in the startup ecosystem.

Speaker 5 (07:11):
Look, everything with the word AI in it is getting
a ton of attention. I think there's a lot of
big we talked about this show. I think there's a
lot of businesses that don't have the word AI in
m that are still remarkable companies that are getting a
shockingly low amount of attention. And so you have this
bar bell happening. I particularly am kind of on both
sides of it. Right My find invests in alcohol and
consumer device, which is, you know there's some AI, but
that's pretty antithetical. And on the other side, I'm personally

(07:31):
investing in trying to start companies in the AI space
as well. Most of the people here, I can guarantee
you if you ask them what's on your mind or
now as a founder, AI is going to be obvious,
and it's a natural. It's a natural thing to say,
and I think that's top of mind for a lot
of founders right now.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
When everybody's saying that, I think this is something do
we talk about it with Michael or I'm trying to
think We've had so many good conversations here this idea
that there's just so much coming at us with an
AI connection. But ultimately the dust is going to settle.
There's going to be some really big winners and losers.
How do you, as an investor who's also looking at
these opportunities or an entrepreneur trying to start something up,
how do you figure out which way to go?

Speaker 5 (08:06):
It's a great question. Look, I think that there's an
unbelievable power law that's playing out here. I've said this
a lot, and I'm going to continue to say it.
I think that despite the fact that there is about
to be so much money made in AI, an unbelievable
title wave of innovation and opportunity, there's a lot of
people who are going to get absolutely smoked, right, And
the reason for that is that there's a lot of
people who, out of necessity, based on funds that have
raised money from LPs that are expecting them deploy, aren't

(08:27):
trying to rush into arounds for businesses with basically a
deck and an idea at fifty million dollars pre money
valuations or sometimes even higher. Sometimes that will work, often
it will not. And so I think that you have
an interesting dynamic now where founders have a ton of
power if they're willing to build an AI and I
think that that plays nicely to the founder. So as
an investor, as an entrepreneur, I'm thinking about how I

(08:48):
can create leverage out of myself, use AI tools to
get more out of Noah, more out of a small team,
and create unbelievable levels of efficiency. But I think, like
entrepreneurship as a whole, AI really is going to expose people.
It's a aritocracy. If you are good enough to figure
out how to use AI, there's an unbelievable opportunity at
hand right now.

Speaker 4 (09:04):
There's been a lot of talk of AI today, talk about.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
Booze, let's do it.

Speaker 4 (09:08):
I'm into it. I'm curious about the where you see
opportunity right now because we're seeing a real rise in
non alcoholic beers, non alcoholic drinks. I mean, it's not
weird to go and order a mocktail anymore. It used
to be something that like kids did at bar and
bought mitzvahs, but like that's actually happening in bars around
New York City. What are the other vices and vice
type categories that you're investing in, because it seems like

(09:30):
there's this really movement away from vice.

Speaker 3 (09:33):
So I'll tell you right now.

Speaker 5 (09:34):
I have a potentially controversial opinion that the notion of
betting against alcohol is a bad idea. I think alcohol,
for a long time has proven that is remarkably resilient.
This is not the first time and it won't be
the last time that we hear headlines indicate that no
one's drinking anymore. It is just not true. If you
take the actual trajectory of alcohol consumption and sales over
the last fifty years, it basically was a straight line
north every single year, where the only thing we knew

(09:55):
is that it was going to be higher next year
than it was a previous year. In COVID, it's spiked
like crazy every but he started drinking like fish, and
everything went to the moon until all the manufacturers made more,
the distributors bought more, the retailers ordered work as consumers
were buying more, and then lockdown's ended and people said,
you know what, I should get healthy, I should try longevity.
I should focus on saunas and optimizing my sleep. I
think that's a moment in time. I believe in the

(10:17):
longevity space. But we've had a slight dip in all
time high which has created this compression in the market
where it's creating all these headlines under the indication that
people are not drinking more. It's really just a reset.
And if you actually look at the sales in twenty
twenty four and twenty twenty five, they're higher than they
were in twenty nineteen. So my personal hypothesis, and we're
investing accordingly, is that yes, non OUC is real, it's interesting,

(10:37):
but who's is and will continue to be a deeply
important part of the American and global psyche economy and
so many other things. I also think at the same time,
nicotine pouches super super interesting, huge opportunity there. We're investing
THHC beverages, huge opportunity there. So look, consumers and humans
at the most fundamental level, put the market to side.
They need escapism, they need social connectivity, they need connection.

(10:59):
And until there's other commercially reasonable and available things like
alcohol and nicotine and THHCH that can solve for it,
there's gonna be a lot of money to be made
in those spaces, all.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
Right, but something like non alcoholic beer, I mean substantial
growth some reports indicating and you're like four hundred and
fifteen percent increase from twenty eighteen to twenty twenty four
in retail sales. And mind you, it's coming from maybe
a smaller bottom. But having said that, are you not
playing in that space?

Speaker 5 (11:20):
We haven't yet. I think if I had to guess
in my in my funds, I think we'll make a
couple a couple bets in the space. I just think
I think it behaves distinctly differently than traditional alcohol and vice.
I think there is a market for it. My personal
bet is that we are probably near the top. I
do think any beer is going to continue to grow.
I think NA beer is probably the best use case
for it. I think NA cocktails are a little bit tougher.

(11:41):
NA wine's a little bit tougher. I don't quite get it.

Speaker 4 (11:44):
On the nicotine pouches. Yeah, you know, I've heard of
some of the sort of direct consumer startups like Lucy's
for example.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
We're investors.

Speaker 4 (11:50):
How do you compete with Zen?

Speaker 3 (11:51):
Though?

Speaker 4 (11:51):
I mean we're talking Philip Morris International, We're talrying about.

Speaker 5 (11:53):
We're talking about billions and billions of dollars. Yeah, Zen
is the ten thousand pound grill in the room. They
have more money than they know what to do with
the reality and this goes into a fundamental thesis I
have consumers are inherently promiscuous. I think they're excited to
try new things. When you have a market that is
and is going to continue to be as big as
nicotine pouches are, there just has to be room for more.
And so my thesis in bed is that, yes, Philip

(12:14):
Morris has crushed it. Unbelievable acquisition was in and they're
doing a great job. By definition, all the other big
tobacco players and even I'm willing to bet that a
lot of the booze companies as well are going to say,
you know what, this is a huge market that behaves
similarly to alcoholm Anyways, we need to play there.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Thanks to Uncharted's Noa Friedman and Michael Lobe, coming up
on Bloomberg Business Week more of our favorite conversations from
the Uncharted Community Summit that was held just recently in Southampton,
Long Island. It's an annual event up next as serial
entrepreneur involved in the early days of the changing fintech landscape.
You know, such things as PayPal and into It. Bill

(12:51):
Harris is coming up next. This is Bloomberg.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily podcast. Catch us
live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen
on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app,
or watch us live on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
This is a special holiday edition of Bloomberg BusinessWeek, featuring
some of our favorite conversations from the Uncharted Community Summit
held recently in Southampton, Long Island. And I got to
say this. Next guest needs no introduction.

Speaker 4 (13:22):
Okay, you promised. We talked to a serial entrepreneur who
has a ton of experience in the fintech space. I
want to bring in Bill Harris. He's a longtime fintech executive.
He's founded or led several personal finance companies, think from
companies such as into It, PayPal as well. He was
the founding CEO there. He ran TurboTax, he founded personal Capital,
you remember just a few years ago that was bought
by Empower. Right, so he knows a thing or two

(13:45):
about yeah, how people are using these apps these days,
all right, now.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
That the event is underway. I'm just curious anybody you've
talked to, any interesting conversations that you've had so far?

Speaker 6 (13:55):
Well, sure, you know.

Speaker 7 (13:57):
The most interesting fella here is, of course Michael Lobe,
and I've known him actually for now.

Speaker 6 (14:03):
I talked to him just a moment ago. Forty years wow,
forty years ago.

Speaker 7 (14:07):
We worked together in the magazine industry, which of course
is no longer, but.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
In a subscription business, right that Time Warner bought.

Speaker 6 (14:14):
That's right.

Speaker 7 (14:15):
But first we worked together at Time Ink and then
he left to go build the subscription business that he
sold back to Time Inc.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
Kind of fascinating. I just can we just go there
for a minute. Media, the changes that we have seen
in content production where you get it, I don't know
who'd have thought. I mean, I used to do subscriptions,
right in terms of magazines and various newspapers. We don't
do that anymore. Where do you think it's all going?

Speaker 7 (14:42):
Well, it's you know, finance and media are the two
industries most profoundly changed by digital technology. Yeah, because they
are all just figments of our imagination, and you can
create them with no assets, just your mind. And so
you know what happened though, is that media. The tsunami

(15:04):
of digitization hit media fast, and old media came crumbling down,
and new media obviously has just done nothing but the
upward tilt. It has not yet happened, generally speaking, in
financials and services, and you still have the same fifty
year old, one hundred year old, one hundred and fifty
year old firms that dominate, and so that industry is

(15:28):
now ripe for digitization.

Speaker 4 (15:31):
A lot of folks are working to digitize that industry.
You've been working in that for decades at this point.
But it's a very lucrative industry. It's also very sticky
when it comes to the way people manage their assets.
They don't want to move advisors, they don't want to
move firms. They I think, especially high net worth individuals,
still feel like they want somebody to talk to and

(15:51):
that service comes with fees eighty basis points, one hundred
and twenty basis points. Those fees eat into returns. This
is something that you've been working on for years. You
did it at Personal Capital, Yes, what are you doing
now at Evergreen Wealth?

Speaker 6 (16:03):
We're doing two things. We're doing wealth management.

Speaker 7 (16:06):
Wealth management for people who have let's say investable assets
of a million to five and these are people who
don't get the kind of white glove service that people
who have ten twenty one hundred million dollars do. And
so what they need is somebody who can take the
tax and investment principles that the people who have more

(16:28):
money utilize because they have tax attorneys and all the rest,
and then look for someone who can use technology to
make that scalable and in fact precision engineering to make
it even better than traditional wealth managers deliver. If we
do that, we can give them better pre tax return
and then better after tax return, because that's the thing

(16:49):
that everyone forgets.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
Can everybody benefit by this?

Speaker 7 (16:52):
Yes, absolutely, everyone who has sufficient resources that the tax
impact is meaningful. And so a couple of one hundred
thousand dollars to a couple of million dollars, yes, you
should absolutely be managing your investment portfolio in a tex
aware way.

Speaker 4 (17:13):
You're the founding CEO of PayPal. We talk a lot
about the PayPal mafia. Those folks we've spoken to Read Hoffman,
David Sachs. These guys really don't need any introduction. Elon Musk,
of course, is among them to what extent are these
folks still in your universe right now?

Speaker 7 (17:28):
Well, for the most part, we've gone separate ways. Even
many of the people within within the so called mafia.
I've moved from Silicon Valley to Miami, so I have
sort of a new set of people.

Speaker 4 (17:41):
That I'm working at.

Speaker 6 (17:42):
Them have too somehow, Yes, that's right.

Speaker 4 (17:45):
And some of them have moved back to San Francisco too.
There maybe Texas some of them as well. Yeah, okay,
so on that and sort of on payments. Yes, I
thought of you the other day because the crypto firm
Kraken Yes, is launching this competitor to to Venmo into
the cash app, essentially using the blockchain to transfer money.

(18:05):
And I'm wondering how you look at that as somebody
who really pioneered technology for sending money over the internet.
Is the blockchain? Is crypto really going to disrupt that?

Speaker 7 (18:16):
I think the blockchain is very good for some purposes.
I don't have much use for cryptocurrency, because we have
plenty of currencies that are very good, but the blockchain
can do a heck of a lot, particularly on international
money movement, because we're looking at Swift, you know, which
takes at least a day, sometimes multiple days to get

(18:37):
significant money moved from America to Singapore.

Speaker 6 (18:40):
And with the right crypto networks, you can do it
like that, that easy, sure, and that fast.

Speaker 4 (18:49):
So that sounds like Western Union gets disrupted in a
situation like that. That's what it sounds like to me.

Speaker 7 (18:54):
Not quite, because Western Union. Western Union is all about
the last mile, and Western Union is doing lots of
little payments and for most in most of the world,
it's actually agents, physical agents who are who are taking
the money and giving out the money.

Speaker 6 (19:09):
So that's a very different thing.

Speaker 7 (19:10):
But if you're doing bank to bank payments or business
to business plans.

Speaker 6 (19:14):
The big guys, the big guys.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
Yeah, So does it happen eventually?

Speaker 7 (19:18):
Oh yes, yeah, yeah. There is no reason whatsoever in
this day and age it should take multiple days to
get money from here to there.

Speaker 4 (19:27):
Amen.

Speaker 7 (19:27):
But and we were doing twenty five years ago. We
were moving money instantly, skittering it around the world at PayPal.

Speaker 6 (19:35):
It's not that hard.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
So are there going to be big players in it?

Speaker 6 (19:38):
I don't know. I don't follow, I don't follow what's happening.

Speaker 7 (19:42):
You know, Ripple took a stab at it for a
while but I haven't heard anything about that in a while,
So I don't.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Know what you know. Just got about thirty seconds here.
I mean, AIS have obviously the trend that everybody talks
about in terms of its impact. Is there anything else
though outside of AI? Or is it really just about
artificial and eence which is not a new thing, but
it's certainly on a different level too.

Speaker 4 (20:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (20:03):
So I'll just say quickly, in what I'm doing Evergreen Wealth,
we're doing two things. First of all, we're using AI
to revolutionize how financial advice can be delivered. But the
other important thing we're doing is bringing tax considerations into
investment management, because.

Speaker 6 (20:19):
It's not what you earn, it's what you keep that counts.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
That's former PayPal CEO Bill Harris speaking with us at
Michael Loebe's annual Unsharted Summit. Another guest we heard from
at the event Allie McCartney. She is Managing director of
Private Wealth Management at UBS, and she started off by
telling us why she comes to this event.

Speaker 8 (20:39):
So UBS and I traffic at the intersection in liquidity
events and in individuals, and so what does that mean?
That's entrepreneurship and so one of the beautiful things about
this event and about our partnership with it is. Michael
Lobe opened by saying, this is a celebration of entrepreneurs
and entrepreneurialism. Right, and so if you go through all

(20:59):
of the things things that are happening in our world today,
all of the trends, deglobalization being a big one, right right.
Where does wealth come from in this country? It's intellectual property.
It is six million businesses founded last year. It is
being at these events and having funders and founders meet,

(21:20):
providing very valuable networking opportunities, and for us to be
able to be supportive of that community full stop is
really the bread and butter of what we do at ubs.

Speaker 4 (21:31):
Does it give you new opportunities to bring new money
into your firm or is it more like, okay, when
I'm allocating my client's assets. Yeah, I'm thinking about these
alternatives because I talked about these types of businesses with
people at this conference.

Speaker 8 (21:47):
So yes, and yes, I would say there are three
things it does. It is certainly, you know, a prospecting,
right rich environment in terms of there are people here
who obviously we know the numbers of the success of
startups and franchises of these people are going to be
the next unicorns, right, So there's that. The second is
it allows me to learn about AI or why the

(22:09):
founder of Tesla, you know, founded Tesla and what he's
thinking about now. And then the third thing is it
allows me to find new opportunities for myself and my
clients to be outside of this environment, both educated and
proximant to the new trends that are driving sort of
where the puck is and how we'll invest for sure.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
You know, it's funny you see the founder of Tesla,
because Elon Musk was not actually the founder, was he?

Speaker 3 (22:35):
He?

Speaker 8 (22:36):
So it was very funny because the first panel was
someone who's just been seven months in the White House. Yeah,
and so Elon Musk was a topic of conversation there.
And then the next man after was the founder of Tesla,
who I thought, who very elegantly decided not to answer
that question.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
You know what's funny too, is and I think about
wealth management. You do have, I'm assuming as clients a
lot of folks that are founders, and whether they're looking
to sell their company and find a deal, or maybe
you have other clients who have money they want to
put to work. And they want to have a piece
of a company. A lot of that is what goes on, right.

Speaker 8 (23:14):
Oh, a lot of that is what goes on. So
I think like, if you think about the path of
a founder of an entrepreneur, right, you have an idea,
there's something disruptive, there's some challenge or problem you're trying
to solve in the world. And you know, we were
learning today that most people sell fund that by using
credit cards, personal assets and their four to one K, right,
they make less than one hundred thousand dollars for years

(23:36):
and years and years, and they are just so embedded
in their company and the mission and the branding that
they're not thinking about the tax consequences, whether they can
take advantage of qualified solled business stock. Could the business
be stuck in a marriage in court and decided by
the state of California or Florida if they don't have
a pre nut so all of the So what we

(23:58):
do is we say, look, if you are extremely successful,
you're going to get to a liquidity point where some
lawyer or some general counsel or Anderson Tax is going
to say, have you talked about the planning and this?
And at that point you can maybe add a couple
percent of value. But if you can find these people

(24:21):
as they are stuck in what I call the valley
of death, sort of that middle part of building a business,
and you can get an hour with them, just to say,
there are a couple things we can do from an
investment perspective, an entity perspective, and a tax perspective that
if you are as successful as you think you are,
you can protect yourself and investors and you can make

(24:41):
your net much bigger than what it would be otherwise.

Speaker 4 (24:45):
As you know, entrepreneurs are not focused on this stuff.

Speaker 3 (24:47):
We now no, no, no.

Speaker 4 (24:48):
So if they haven't taken advantage of something like the QSBS, yeah,
and if they didn't set up the business that way
initially can get can they change it to actually get
that benefit?

Speaker 8 (24:57):
It becomes increasingly difficult as you take and capital, you
have more LPs, et cetera. But there are many many
ways to do it. And I think most people know
about that ten million dollar headline number. So I've seen
many many times that protected Our goal is to try
to be in front of entrepreneurs and support them, but

(25:17):
to try to get them either to think about which
is really challenging or get them to sort of open
up themselves to allowing someone to act on their behalf
even when they're not there yet.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
That's Ali McCartney, Managing Director, Private Wealth Management at EBS.

Speaker 9 (25:35):
Still ahead on.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
Bloomberg Business Week. More from our visit to Michael Lobe's
Unsharted conference in the Hamptons. Up next to check on
the health and activity of capital markets with someone who
knows a lot about it has a front row seat.
He has the vice chair of the New York Stock Exchange.
That's next. This is Bloomberg.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live
each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Applecar and
Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also
listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,
Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
This is a special holiday edition of Bloomberg Business Week,
featuring some of our favorite conversations from the Uncharted Community Summit.
It was held recently in Michael Lobe's backyard in the Hamptons.
At the summit was Michael Harris. He has his finger
on the pulse of what is going on when it
comes to publicly held companies, old issues and new issues
that have come to market, such as IPOs. He's vice

(26:32):
chairman and global head of Markets at the New York
Stock Exchange.

Speaker 4 (26:35):
Last time we spoke with you was at another event
equally beautiful, by the way, equally beautiful downtime exactly.

Speaker 10 (26:42):
That was.

Speaker 4 (26:43):
That was back in early March. A lot has happened. Yeah,
since then, we've kind of had a round trip when
it comes to equity markets. There were some concerns a
few weeks after we spoke about companies pulling their IPOs
as a result of what was happening with trade. Those
IPOs they ended up happening in May and June. How

(27:03):
would you describe the environment right now?

Speaker 11 (27:05):
I mean, I think, you know, the round trip that
you described is exactly the way to think about it.
You know, we've seen a complete one hundred and eighty
degree turn in terms of sentiment, in terms of where
the market backdrop is, and it's playing out in the
IPO market on a couple different factors. On one hand,
we're seeing the subscription levels in terms of interest on
IPOs are through the roof. So these deals that are

(27:26):
coming to the marketplace are multiple times over subscribed interest
from a wide range of investors. The second part of
it is when they do come to the market, the
actual pricing outcomes are oftentimes very much in the favor
of the issuers. And then the third part of it
is the performance, which you mentioned just now, the performance
on day one, the follow through in the aftermarket, all

(27:48):
the way through the offer to today's performance has been
absolutely phenomenal. So that really keeps the cycle in terms
of investor interest continuing to go. And so what we're
seeing that play out is really in our backlock. So
we see a very active summer, we see an active September,
and we think it's going to be a very active
twenty twenty five right forward.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
What does that backlog look like? You say active, I
mean how backed up is it and how eager are
these that are back ready to go?

Speaker 11 (28:13):
Yeah, Well, you know, for the first part, you're seeing,
on one hand, a lot of companies that were delaying
their IPOs because of some of the tensions that happened
in the beginning part of the year. So some of
them have taken a step back and they were kind
of waiting to see. On one hand, just what happened
from a geopolitical standpoint, how things are playing out in
terms of just the tensions that we're in the air.
And also they're waiting to see from the investor community

(28:34):
what the reception was going to be for some of
the more recent crop of IPOs. So we've gotten those results.
Those results have been in many cases much better than
they thought they would be, and so they're now ready
to push forward. The other part of it is what
we're seeing now is a much more diverse array of
companies that are going public. You know, when you and
I talked, we were talking about who would be the
most likely companies to go public, and they would be

(28:55):
likely the more defensive names. Now we're seeing that start
to broaden out, so or our pipeline and looks more
diverse than it was back in March. It looks awester
for larger companies that are also going to be coming
So really, in all respects, it tends to be a
very healthy outcome.

Speaker 4 (29:10):
How has that pipeline diversity shifted in recent years? I
remember when I spent three four years working from the
floor of the New York Stock Exchange as a reporter,
and there was a period in twenty seventeen twenty eighteen,
no joke, no exaggeration. Almost every other day there was
a Chinese company going public in the United States. These

(29:30):
were companies we had never heard of. There were companies
that we haven't heard from since. I mean, it was
really really wild times. Then there was this crackdown on
a lot of these companies that were listed from China
in the US. Yeah, has that business completely dried up
for you? I mean she and has filed confidentially to

(29:51):
listen to.

Speaker 11 (29:51):
IDEO in k We saw that today, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know, it's interesting. There's still a class of companies
that are for the most part microcap in nature, a
lot of them domiciled in China that are still coming public.
That's a class of companies that quite frankly, we have
the New York Stock Exchange really don't really look to
Some of our competitors tend to focus on that market.

(30:14):
And we've seen a number of articles, whether it's from
the Wall Street Journal, Financial Times or others, that have
really pointed to some of the problems that have become
as a result of that. So that's not something really
focus on. But we are still seeing some of those
companies come to the public markets. But I think there's
some challenges with that, and there's going to probably continue
to be challenges with that going forward.

Speaker 4 (30:31):
Still out of China, some are they choosing to list
in other areas of the world.

Speaker 11 (30:36):
Yeah, you know, it depends a little bit on market cap,
it depends on the sector. I think what you are
seeing is a bit of a preference for many companies
just for liquidity. So the US market still continues to
be a place where they would like to list, but
for larger names, the home markets continue to be also
very attractive, you know, Cattle being a great example of that.

(30:57):
Early in the year, shean looking to the Hongkong relative
to London. So, depending on the name, depending on the sector,
depending on the specifics of those companies, home markets can
also be a very viable alternative.

Speaker 9 (31:08):
To Michael.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
In some of the cases with the IPOs, we've really
seen quite a pop on that first day of trading, right.

Speaker 9 (31:13):
That's a good sign.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
You know, we want to see that as certainly a
company that's going public wants to see that. But it
always begs the question, were they too conservative in you know,
the numbers that they put out there. I am curious,
what are the conversations that you're hearing from those folks,
and those companies that are looking to go public, are
they would they rather be a little conservative going in
and making sure that that's a good first day of trading.

Speaker 4 (31:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (31:34):
You know, I think when you talk to people in
the world of IPOs, whether they're bankers or lawyers, you know,
it's often talked about being more of an art than
a science, and I think there is a little bit
of truth to that. Yeah, there's a balancing act that
always has to happen, and also companies that are investors
rather they're going to be supporting the company from a
liquidity perspective, and there's a balance of the two in

(31:54):
the aftermarket. And the reality is, until you actually get
to that stage where you're in the pricing room and
you're actually confronting with management in terms of what the
dynamics look like, it's sometimes tough to tell. And so
I think the underwriters do a great job of being
able to offer what those trade offs are going to
be to management teams. Ultimately, the management teams are the
ones that have to make those really tough decisions. But

(32:16):
I always think about it in terms of the IPO
process Ultimately it's a day one event, and really what
management teams, what their stakeholders need to focus on is
really trying to set up a company for success over
the long term and not focus on necessarily the day
one performance. Obviously you want a great pricing outcome, but
really you're managing this company for the long haul. It's
not really just for the day one IPO event.

Speaker 4 (32:38):
Can you give us an update on the New York
Stock Exchange Texas launch this year? We talked about it
back in March.

Speaker 11 (32:43):
Yeah, yeah, we have, you know, multiple companies that are
now listed there. We have a pretty fairly healthy pipeline
of companies that are going to be going listing on
the exchange over the next several months. We are very
close to signing a lease in Dallas. It's really continuing
to take on momentum, and so we really are excited
about it.

Speaker 4 (33:01):
Do you think it's perhaps a hedge in New York
City losing its place when it comes to capital markets?
And I ask this kind of came into sharp relief
this week with I think a lot of people would
argue with what happened in the Democratic primary for the
mayoral election. We certainly have a lot of outspoken billionaires

(33:23):
who've talked about concerns when it comes to capital markets
here in New York in the position of New York
City as being the epicenter of Wall Street.

Speaker 11 (33:32):
Yeah, I mean for Texas, the way that we've thought
about it is when we look at our own listed
community and we look at the number of companies in
terms of where they're domiciled, Texas really stands out tends
to be the area where we have the most number
of companies from a really diverse range.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
Of sectors that are represented.

Speaker 11 (33:49):
And so when we kind of really thought about it
from the perspective of what Governor Abbott's doing to try
to make sure that the ecosystem of companies within Texas
is vibrant, and you know, it intersects with a lot
of what we're trying to do in terms of getting
a great environment for our own listed community, it really
made sense. So we think about this more from the
long term perspective of offering the best environment for our

(34:12):
listed community, less in terms of like a short term
strategy in terms of what might be happening in the
New York ecosystem. We still are big believers that New
York continues to be a great place for capital raising
and also for companies to be domiciled.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
But longer term than does that mean, does it expand
the model?

Speaker 11 (34:27):
It's hard to know, you know, really just focused on
kind of where we see the greatest opportunity for our
community right now. But we're always forward thinking in terms
of really trying to see where the greatest opportunity results
for our community.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
That's Michael Harris, Vice Chairman and Global head of Markets
at the New York Stock Exchange. We also caught up
with a shark at the Uncharted Community Summit on Long Island.
Damon John is the founder and CEO of Fubu, and
of course he's also a shark on ABC's reality show
Shark Tank. We spoke about how hard it is to
start a brand.

Speaker 11 (34:58):
It is not easy.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Is it getting any easier or is it harder? And
I feel like it's an environment where anybody can almost
have a brand.

Speaker 12 (35:06):
I do think it's getting harder. I think because you
have to find this niche audience. But not only do
you have to create the brand itself for your product
or services, but you as a CEO and a founder have.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
To be a brand as well.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
What does that mean?

Speaker 12 (35:19):
Well, that means that people would not only want to
know why they're investing in the brand or the product
or buying it. What story does that brand or product
have as well as founders?

Speaker 3 (35:28):
Who are you?

Speaker 13 (35:29):
You know?

Speaker 12 (35:30):
I always say on Shark Tank that you know, none
of us are original. I mean, there's a million real
estate agents, there's only one Barbara Corkan. A lot of
people own sports teams, Mark Cuban clothing line, you.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
Know what I mean?

Speaker 12 (35:43):
People we had created personal brands, and then our brands
now walk into the room before we do when we
want to raise capital, when we want to make decisions,
when we want to defend the fact that somebody is
saying negative about our brand and our company and affecting
our payroll and our amazing staff that works for us.

Speaker 4 (36:01):
Do you think you could create Fubu today?

Speaker 12 (36:03):
Absolutely, one hundred percent.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
But today's it's a completely different environment.

Speaker 12 (36:07):
Today's Fubu would be a different right, There's no there's
not new to have four young African American men designing
for their own markets.

Speaker 3 (36:14):
So what would food will be today?

Speaker 12 (36:15):
I would probably do more of the avon uh you
know type of thing where I would have one male,
one female in a college and a high school. They
would get probably about a one thousand dollars worth of
fooble on credit for about three hundred dollars, probably underwritten
by hopefully somebody great. And the more they sell, they
would get more digital curriculums and various other things and

(36:35):
very much of an Avon model. So I would have
hopefully two million sales reps around the world.

Speaker 4 (36:41):
It's so interesting that you say that, because the retail
environment has completely changed. It's done. It's done, Yeah, completely done.

Speaker 12 (36:48):
You know, I've been to fifty six trade shows this year.
You know, I speak at a lot of shows, and
the traffic besides the franchise show and maybe the medical
tech show, it is one third of the traffic at
these shows. Because these retailers are now dying. They're not
walking the door. You know, who's walking in. It's a
bunch of kids or people. Influencers, could be grand influencers

(37:09):
who are now doing live selling, whether on Amazon or
TikTok or whatnot.

Speaker 4 (37:14):
And that's what's happening live selling. That's something that I
think is very familiar to people in China, but not
necessarily familiar to many people in the US at least
yet explain exactly what that is.

Speaker 12 (37:24):
Well, I'm selling as you go, and I'll give you example.
There's an app call Whatnot, right, and people have twenty
second auctions for one little device or let's say a
piece of makeup, right, sell for about twelve dollars right now.
They can do this three separate times in one minute, right,
so they make a profit about four dollars every time

(37:44):
they sell it. So now all of a sudden, twelve
dollars a minute. You times app and now they have
friends coming on everything. You times app by sixteen hours
a day. And that's what's happening because then when people
buy it, now you know who the client is and
the customer you can sell it to them again. Remember
but there's only three ways to ever deal with the customer.
Acquire a new one, upsell a current one, or make
one buy more frequently. That's why you want to supicize

(38:06):
everybody's fries, and now you know who they are, they
can upsell them or buy more frequently.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
That's Damon John, founder and CEO of fu Bou and
of course one of the sharks on ABC's Shark Tank.
And that wraps up our first hour of this special
holiday edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Coming
up in the next sixty minutes. More from our visit
to the Uncharted Community Summit held recently in Southampton. We'll
talk about investing in women's health issues with Jessica Kamada,

(38:32):
She's founder and managing partner at Swizzle Ventures. Plus more
from our hosts Michael Loeb and Noah Friedman, who come
back to discuss investing principles in the VC world. This
is Bloomberg BusinessWeek. I'm Carol Masser along with Tim Steneviec.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
Stay with us.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Today's top stories and global business headlines are coming up
right now.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
If you are listening to the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily podcast,
catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern.
Listen on Apple, Our Play and Android Auto with the
Bloomberg Business Act, or watch us live on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Welcome to a special holiday weekend edition of Bloomberg Business
Week and happy fourth of July. We continue with our
recent live broadcast from Southampton, Long Island. We were at
the annual Uncharted Community Summit, an annual gathering of more
than five hundred members of the startup community, and over
the next sixty minutes, we continue to bring some of
our favorite chats from the event. We'll hear from someone

(39:29):
that runs an incubator for disruption in the tech sector
and another investor targeting women's health specifically. First of this hour, though,
I was joined by Bloomberg' Paul Sweeney to get some
background on the event that you've been hearing about and
hearing conversations from in the last hour. Event hosts Michael Loebe,
founder and CEO of Lobe dot NYC. You heard about
him in the last hour, and also Noah Friedman, CEO

(39:51):
of Uncharted. They both joined us for a bit of
a roundtable on the initial idea behind Uncharted.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
So what the intention is is that Noah and I
started building Uncharted about four years ago, was in the
teeth of COVID when nobody was getting together with anybody else,
and we started having dinners at my house in the
city and was very popular. And what the thesis is
is that entrepreneurs need as much support as they can get,

(40:22):
including emotional support, and the best way to do that
is put entrepreneurs in a room with other entrepreneurs and
they are as a class. They drive the economy, drive jobs,
drive wealth, and yet there I think underappreciated, and as
a serial entrepreneur myself, and actually one or two things worked,

(40:45):
I'm you know, very empathetic and just with all the
miles on the tires, I am kind of a senior
statesman by definition. Right, this is a young guy's game.
I say that I have the privilege of working with
people half my agent, twice as smart. I used to
say that. Now it's three times as smart and one
third of my age. But that was the intention. And

(41:07):
it's grown to a tribe of maybe twenty five hundred entrepreneurs,
of which about a third of them show up to this,
So we will have about eight hundred today.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
No, come on in on this. You're the CEO of
Uncharted too, right, and so we're seeing things being set up.
There's going to be a lot of great conversations and
speakers going on. Tell us what it's been grown into
and what kind of conversations are going to be happening
later on.

Speaker 5 (41:29):
The common thread of everything that we've done it Uncharted
since the first dinner on May twenty, twenty twenty one,
and I'll never forget.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
It was it just you two by the way us.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
To at dinner. Yeah, it was just us too.

Speaker 5 (41:39):
We just sat and talked for four hours and here
you were going.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
No, not about it. We also held ounce.

Speaker 5 (41:43):
We did all dance the whole time.

Speaker 3 (41:44):
Yeah, it's very romantic.

Speaker 12 (41:45):
Now.

Speaker 5 (41:45):
We had about twenty entrepreneurs around the table, kind of
eight of each of our friends and then a couple others.
If you will look, the common thread of every single
event we've done, whether it's our dinners or the past
three summits or the breakfast we've done, has always been
trying to create safe spaces for real entrepreneurs, founders, exceptional
participants in the entrepreneuri community, as we say, to truly

(42:06):
drop their guard, drop their hair, and trust that they're
in an environment where they can speak openly and honestly.
Any entrepreneur or anyone who's building and really doing it,
the real ones. Hopefully this will resonate when they hear
it. It is really hard. It's very hard to build businesses.
It's really hard to play this game at the high level.
And I think if we can offer a rare environment
where people can feel like they are amongst their true peers,

(42:26):
or they can really drop their guard and connect with
people in a place where no matter who you go
talk to, they're all going to be exceptional. It's special.
And so we've really tried to guard the energy. We've
really tried to keep the sanctity of the fact that
if you come to an uncharted event, you're going to
meet someone amazing. And that's really been the common thread.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
I just want to say, it's a reminder of that,
like Google, Apple, all of these companies that are now
you know, the biggest market caps that are out there
and that we talk about and you know all the time.
I mean, they all started as an idea an entrepreneur.
And that's the point, yea.

Speaker 3 (42:55):
And if you look at kind of success rates and
everything else, if you're an entrepreneur, if you really knew
all that stuff, why would you do this? Because the
failure rate is incredibly high, hours are incredibly long, the
pay you know, is dreadful until it's not until you
have a big score. But the number of big scores
is very very small, and there's so many forces and

(43:17):
so many you know, so many exogenous things that are
you know, anti entrepreneur that we wanted to have a
sanctuary here that other entrepreneurs can meet other entrepreneurs, and Noah,
you're fond of saying that. Not a week or two
goes by where we don't get a phone call saying
I met my co founder here two years ago.

Speaker 10 (43:39):
No Who's What are the areas that are most interested
entrepreneurs today? Is it technology? Is healthcare? Are there certain
industries that are getting most of the attention.

Speaker 5 (43:48):
Look, I think the obvious buzzword that you can't go
too far in any of the new cycles to that
hearing is AI. And I think that unlike other cycles
that have come and went and entered the zeitgeist and left,
this one feels very real. I can tell you that
amongst all my friends, whether they're in CpG, health tech,
pure AI, deep tech, what have you tech, and all
of them are thinking explicitly about how AI is going

(44:09):
to impact their business if they're not already, and how
they're going to get into it. So I think we're
certainly going to talk about that a lot. I think
it's top of mind for a lot of people. The
movement is real. I think that the implications and repercussions
are unclear how it's going to land right now, but
everybody's thinking about it, and they should be when.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
I think it's unclear, but it's going to be brought,
it's going to be broad, it's going to be brought.
And you mentioned cycles. I've been around for a few.
This reminds me of the late nineties where the Internet
happened and we had a lot of full starts two
three years ago. Everybody was talking about NFTs before that,
blockchain before that, cannabis before that, you know, something else.

(44:45):
But this feels like another eruption. This feels like another
advent of the Internet, one that we haven't had absolu earlier.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
Yeah, on the same level, no doubt about or even.

Speaker 3 (44:55):
More I think on the same level.

Speaker 4 (44:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:58):
I mean, you know, it's hard to project and predict,
but I had breakfast with a heroic entrepreneur a couple
of days ago. He has built a business now worth
one point eight billion dollars, and over breakfast, he says,
I have two hundred and seventy people by year end,
it's gonna be one twenty. Yeah, okay, interesting.

Speaker 5 (45:17):
I would add to that if I'm may, sorry, I
think that there's this interesting tension with AI right now
where I think Michael's right and I would even argue
that this might I didn't live through the late nineties
period of seeing it at least.

Speaker 6 (45:28):
All right, thanks for having me, guys, If you don't.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
I think that letting your hair down seven thing. I mean,
why do you work with having? It's crazy?

Speaker 5 (45:38):
Everyone asked me that. But I think there's an inherent
tension where I actually think it could be more disruptive.
And at the same time, I do think that there's
a lot of people who are betting big dollars than
AI that are going to get wiped out because I
think there's gonna be an absolute power law dynamic here
where small select group of companies at the top end
aggregate a ton of power and resource. I also think
it's going to be a Barbell warre on the bottom end.
You know, I've invested personally in companies that have two

(46:00):
or three people on the team and have rocketed millions
in arr because they're able to get ten x productivity
if it's a killer founder. So I think there's a
Barbell thing happening right now where the killer founders who
actually know how to leverage resources are going to crush it,
as are the big businesses.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
Well.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
Because of that and what AI can do genera of
AI and so on. I mean, does it give entrepreneurs
even more opportunities to start up? We talked about that
after the pandemic. Basically create a website and you can
go and then maybe that's simplifying things, but does AI
kind of have a multiplier effect to on entrepreneurial activities?

Speaker 3 (46:30):
Without a doubt, I think that's the opportunity. I think
that's right. And if you just look at what has
happened over the years, you know, it used to be
that if you build a business, a brand new business
in the Internet, you need it. You needed hundreds of people, right,
and now that's really compressed to just a few. But
to Noah's point, there's going to be winners and there's

(46:51):
going to be a lot of losers, and that's very
hard to predict.

Speaker 10 (46:54):
Michael, talk to us about monetization. I'm not seeing a
lot of IPOs. I'm not seeing a lot of m
and A. How great entrepreneurs monetize the value they've created.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
That's a that's a great question. I would I would
say that everything you just mentioned is part of a cycle,
and we're just in that type of cycle where everything
is a little bit bollock. Stop uh and but you
know it's it's we're going to be on the other
side of that, and there's going to be some great
companies built, and there's going to be some great flameouts,
a lot of people are going to lose a lot
of money, and then there's going to be a few

(47:26):
that are going to be extraordinarily successful. But to your point,
we can build it now with instead of three hundred people,
three and there's been predictions that there's going to be
a unicorn with all of three people. Serious, Yeah, I
believe that.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Okay, that kind of makes sense. And we've started to
see IPOs actually in general come to market and it's
a much more favorable market. I got to ask you,
I think we'd be remiss of the macro that's going
on and different policies in the world being upended in geopolitics.
What does that do for the entrepreneur. Entrepreneur who's trying
to you know, we know can be lean and mean
in the beginning when it comes to a startup. What

(48:03):
about some of these macro issues, What would be more
helpful to them?

Speaker 3 (48:06):
What kind of environment, well, anything that helps with capital formation,
anything that kind of reduces regulation. I was hopeful that
this administration would attack some of that stuff and maybe
not terrorists. But anyway, it's still early. It's still early.
We're here now. They are very active and very proactive,

(48:26):
and I'm just hopeful that what you really want to
give is entrepreneurs just charter. I mean, let them do
their thing as much as you can. And our hope
is by the way that this environment, believe it or not,
will put a dent in that world, right, that they
will find support here in many different ways.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
Well, I always think it's kind of amazing how much
time we spend and obviously this is our world, right,
the publicly held markets, right, this is what we track,
you know, all the movements. But we talk constantly about
the importance of small business and startups in terms of
the backbone, and I just think it kind of gets
lost a little bit.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
Yeah. I do think though, that you're going to see
AI up end just about every industry. And I think
those big companies are going to find themselves woefully behind
and they're going to have no choice but to make
some acquisitions.

Speaker 10 (49:10):
Well said, no, what capital is it out there for
entrepreneurs today?

Speaker 3 (49:14):
It is?

Speaker 5 (49:15):
But I think that you're seeing an interesting dynamic with
the vcs in private equity that they're chasing a lot
of trends almost blindly. You know the fact that right
now there are really good businesses that don't have the
word AI that are struggling to raise money, whereas there's
other businesses that have a deck and pre seed and
barely an idea and or raising money at fifty million
dollar pre money valuations. I think is indicative of what's
going on.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
Yeah, we saw venture raise. It's been really difficult.

Speaker 5 (49:35):
It's been very difficult unless you're a credentialed AI founder
have a good idea in the AI space, because there's
a lot of VC funds chasing chasing ideas, and I
think some of them will work, but the unfortunate realities,
I think a lot of them are going to get
absolutely smoked because they can't all work, especially not at
fifty million dollar pre So to answer your question directly,
sure there's capital out there, I wish there was more.
I wish there was more going to more ideas that

(49:55):
were based just on meritocracy and their actual traction versus
the notion that they have AI in it. As bullish
as I am on AI and investing in a personally
to be abundantly clear, but it's an interesting moment right now,
very interesting.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
I will only add that that is not too much
different than what we've always seen. True, there's always been
the bright, shiny object, and the investors feel like they
got to follow that.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
Did you really start working for you in high school?

Speaker 3 (50:21):
That's fantastic, Gotta start them young.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Yeah, talk about that off air, exactly right.

Speaker 10 (50:26):
Michael Lope, thank you so much, Founder CEO of Lobe
dot NYC. And Noah Freedman, CEO of Uncharted. Thank you,
gentlemen for being having a great conference today. I'll have
a lot of great ideas circled about and a lot
of great deals.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
Thanks to Michael Lobe, founder and CEO of Lobe dot
NYC and Noah Friedman, CEO of Uncharted. Coming up on
Bloomberg Business Week more from our visit to the Uncharted
conference in the Hampton's held recently in Southampton. Paul Sweeney
stays with me as we learn about AI's potential to
replace human workers. It's a conversation and narrative that is
gaining a lot of momentum that's coming up next.

Speaker 13 (51:00):
This is Bloomberg.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live
each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Applecarplay and
the Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can
also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New
York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
We're back here on this special holiday edition of Bloomberg
Business Week, featuring some of our favorite conversations from the
Uncharted Community Summit. It was held recently in Southampton in
Michael Loebes's backyard. What we keep hearing from tech leaders,
including those at some of the big ones. We're talking
about Microsoft and Alphabet, how they talk about AI's potential
and likelihood to replace human workers. Salesforce among the latest,

(51:45):
noting its internal AI use has allowed it to hire
fewer people. Kind of makes you say, uh, oh, Well.
Someone who knows a lot about our changing workforce is
Cheryl Grice. She is senior partner at the consulting giant EY.
She's also global executive sponsor for the EY Entrepreneurial Winning
Women's Global Program.

Speaker 13 (52:05):
She joined me and.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
Paul Sweeney to talk about her first visit well, this
is your first one and you have clients and you
deal with them. Tell us what you are hoping to
get out of this, What are the conversations you're looking
to have.

Speaker 14 (52:16):
Well, for us, we want to help our entrepreneurs really
establish better community, better connections, and access access to capital
in particular, so events like this go a long way
to helping them get scaled in a way that they
can't do by themselves. And this is like one event
that brings it all together in such an amazing way.

Speaker 10 (52:38):
How do you bring capital and entrepreneurial ideas and talent together?

Speaker 3 (52:43):
How does that happen?

Speaker 13 (52:44):
How do you bring it together?

Speaker 14 (52:46):
Events like this have private investors, private equity, venture capital, bankers, etc.
That are looking to find people that fit their mold
for what they want to invest in. And so this
is one stop shopping for hundreds of entrepreneurs to come
in and find access like that. And these companies are

(53:06):
here for that.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
Do you know what I never understand, Cheryl? We always
talk about the world being a wash in capital. You know,
everybody's starting private credit funds, There's plenty of money out there,
but why is it so tough for smaller business, for startups?
What is it that makes it so tough.

Speaker 14 (53:20):
I think you have to break down the startup in
the population a little bit. I mean we often say
in the statistics one bucket. It's not one bucket. Statistics
haven't changed. For example, only two percent of the world's
venture capital goes to females.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
Wow.

Speaker 14 (53:34):
So so when you can find an event like this
and you can give them that kind of access where
they can actually be ready, Like we do a lot
of work at EY to get them ready for those
conversations so that they can ask for the capital in
a way that the VC wants to provide that capital,
or a private equity or a bank or a private investor.

(53:57):
There's a lot of work that goes into that, and
not all of the same populations. A lot of the
populations are overlooked. They don't get that same kind of
coaching and council to be able to find that capital,
to be able.

Speaker 13 (54:10):
To ask for it in a way that they'll get it.

Speaker 10 (54:13):
Kara and I were just talking with Noah Freeman, the
CEO of and Charted, and he was saying, Wall, if
you don't have AI.

Speaker 3 (54:18):
In your name, it's tough to attract capital.

Speaker 10 (54:20):
It's almost like the late nineties, if you didn't have
a dot com at the end of your company's names,
it's tough to raise capital.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
How do you How are you guys seeing that part
of the business.

Speaker 14 (54:28):
Well, it's not just it's so funny through there's such
an evolution. You know, in the two thousands, it was
the Internet and e commerce, and then you go to
two thousand and seven and to two thousand and nine,
and it's all about social media and what are you
doing where everything is transactive from the palm of your hand?
And now it's AI. AI's been around for a long time,
but it's AI. Where how are you using agents and
agentic and so forth? To us, digital is a growth engine,

(54:52):
but inclusiveness is also a growth engine.

Speaker 13 (54:54):
So it's not just about digital, it's about the.

Speaker 14 (54:56):
Communities that you're getting to be able to bring digital
to life.

Speaker 13 (55:00):
So it's relevant.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
Well, that's really fascinating. You know, when you talk about women,
you talk about minorities. And I'm going to go back
to women for a moment because I remember a few
years ago, and maybe this was coming off the pandemic,
Bloomberg putting out a story that even female venture capitalists
weren't really you know, more prone to maybe support female entrepreneurs.
So again, how do we is is it an education

(55:24):
Like I understand what you're saying about, like educating entrepreneurs
so that when they have to talk to the folks
that have the money, like it's the right conversation. But
how do we really finally move some of that, whether
it's for minorities, for women, really move the needle on that,
because those are pockets of consumers and areas that can
provide a lot of economic momentum, a lot of business.

Speaker 13 (55:45):
To me, there are three gaps at uy. We always
say there's three gaps.

Speaker 14 (55:48):
There's do they have the community necessary so that they
can stick together in their growth agenda and find like
minded people that have been there before so that they
can learn from those people. Then and there's the capital
that we've already talked about. And then there's the connections.
A lot of the connections are how do you educate
yourself and get the right level of insights so that

(56:09):
you can talk to a capital provider.

Speaker 13 (56:13):
Many people don't have that education.

Speaker 14 (56:15):
So for us, programs like the ones that we have,
like on Chartered have they're intended to help them get
those connections and the insights necessary to get access to
those things. Vcs don't necessarily go after the underserved or
overlooked populations because they just don't know how to communicate

(56:36):
yet with the capital providers.

Speaker 13 (56:38):
Our job is to help them.

Speaker 10 (56:40):
What is the real opportunity for you today? What do
you think is going to you're hoping to get together today?

Speaker 14 (56:46):
I want to meet thirty more entrepreneurs that I haven't
met and help them with their journeys. My goal is
to get them the things that they need so that
we're not on the sidelines. We're very much in the
mix with them to get them to the next level.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
Thirty seconds A success story.

Speaker 14 (57:00):
A success story, we watched a female entrepreneur who was
one of our winning Women back in twenty fifteen create
an adult beverage company as a school teacher and sell
it for undisclosed amount. But we're guessing it's over a
billion wow in the last year.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
So that's that's Cheryl grice Ey, Senior Partner for Global
Client Services, Bloomberg's Paul Sweeney sticking around for our next conversation,
and that was with Brett Markinson. He is founder and
CEO of the in Event Capital Group. His company's website
notes that he launched his firm as an incubator and
platform for launching businesses that leverage disruptive technology to innovate

(57:37):
old ways of doing things. We started by asking Brett
what he is hearing from attendees of the Uncharted Community Summit.

Speaker 15 (57:45):
Everybody's talking their bod to the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily podcast,
Catch us Lived at.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
Watch us live on.

Speaker 15 (57:58):
YouTube, And I just kind of personally enjoy the origin stories.
So I try to spend as much time as I
can understanding how people got to where they are by
way of where they came.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
All Right, it's like a gift when someone says that,
because I want to talk about your origin story a
little bit. Media folks were kind of obsessed with media
caning us back to the nineties. You were selling non
linear digital editing base tollies. No, but it's like all
these things shape us. I remember doing, you know, paper prompters.

(58:30):
I'm going to age myself. It's very different nowadays. So
tell us about what that was like and how it
does shape your perspective as you see things change.

Speaker 6 (58:37):
Sure.

Speaker 15 (58:38):
Well, first of all, like any early stage business, it
was brutal I think what made this challenging was whenever
you're too far in front of something, it's very difficult
selling vision to the visionless, and people have a lot
invested in the way they're doing things and the way
things were. In the case of nonlinear editing, I think

(58:59):
what made that's so difficult was the editor was very
comfortable in the basement by himself with no oversight and
not having too much of the producer in over his
kind of shoulder telling him how to do things. And
the nonlinear editing system just changed the landscape entirely because
now the producer was able to kind of be involved

(59:19):
in the editing process and brought the guy upstairs, surrounded
him with a whole bunch of people, and the efficiencies
that it brought were incredible and the impact indelible. But
to a lot of editors it really changed the way
they thought about what they did and how they did it.
So getting it to take took some time, but like

(59:40):
anything wants to damn cracked, it just became a floodgate.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
Is internet or AI right, Like it's kind of the
same story.

Speaker 10 (59:48):
Hey, bred, you're on a panel today talking about exits. Yes,
I haven't seen a lot of IPOs in the last
few years. I haven't seen a lot of M and
A in the last five years. How did guys like
you and the folks here. They've got an idea, they
get it funded, they get it off the ground, and
now they're thinking about an exit, a monetization event. Where
are we today in that environment?

Speaker 15 (01:00:07):
Well, when I start at the very early stage, a
little north of the napkin, I like to call it.
And for companies like that, it oftentimes doesn't make a
lot of news in terms of acquisitions, but there's plenty
of that stuff happening. In a lot of cases. They're
accu hiers that you hear about. So in the end,

(01:00:28):
it really comes down to a couple of very key things.
Building a great product, validating it with solid product market fit,
finding and understanding those customers and getting those customers to
accept your product and tell other customers. And once you
get that flywheel moving, it's kind of a snowball rolling

(01:00:48):
down a hill and it kind of takes on a
momentum of its own. And if you reach that capacity
for your business where you are growing and need help,
capital finds you. And as capital is hunting for you,
so are other larger businesses that want access to your
customers and want access to what you're doing. So at

(01:01:08):
the very early stage of things, it's not too difficult
to be able to find exit opportunities. It just depends
on whether or not you're able to find product market
fit and demonstrate that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
How often, though, is it for an entrepreneur bread, is
it just tough for them to let go after they've
started a company and they realize it's time for them
to either sell merged, I mean, in order to take
it to the next level, Like, how difficult and how
often does that happen where it's just time that they
need somebody else?

Speaker 15 (01:01:33):
Now, that's it's an interesting question, but I think the
answer is emotional. Yeah, And I think people with high
eqs are capable of seeing that they're in over their
head or to get to the next level, they need
competence beyond their capability or skill set, and for some
they just can't see the forest through the trees, and

(01:01:54):
it becomes a very emotional thing. You know, you have
a whole persona and identity that has been formed around
this thing that you brought to life. You know, I
oftentimes think about startups is giving birth to a child
in the ICU.

Speaker 6 (01:02:10):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (01:02:11):
Thanks check it is.

Speaker 15 (01:02:13):
You know your kids in good hands. All the appropriate
people are there on a twenty four to seven basis,
but it's still touch and go.

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
That's Brett Markinson, founder and CEO of in Event Capital Group.
Still ahead on Bloomberg Business Week. More from our visit
to Michael Loeb's Uncharted conference recently in Southampton. We'll hear
about investing in women's health and how Washington policy might
be impacting all of that. That's coming up next. This
is Bloomberg.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily Podcast. Catch us
live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen
on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app,
or watch us live on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
We'll back here on our special holiday edition of Bloomberg
Business Week, continuing to highlight some of our favorite conversations
from the Uncharted Community Summit, which was held recently in Southampton,
in fact, in Michael Loeb's backyard. Returned out to Jessica Kamada.
She's founder managing partner at Swizzle Ventures, a new venture
capital firm that's raised a fund to focus on women's

(01:03:18):
health caregiving, and financial health. We started by asking her
what she looks for in a company before deciding to invest.

Speaker 16 (01:03:25):
We're looking at really the course of a woman's lifetime
and investing in companies that advance women's health and wealth through.

Speaker 9 (01:03:33):
Pivotal life stages.

Speaker 16 (01:03:35):
We see three sectors as really billing the gaps for
women over those three over those life stages, so healthcare,
physical health care, caregiving responsibilities on the elder side, and
early childcare, and then financial health.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
I want to say good, good, good, because especially when
you get just down to medical health and health care,
it's just so behind even R and D, and it's
just amazing. Even I don't want to do a blanket
statement about professionals in the field, but I just hear
over and over again women who go in and it's
just things are ignored said, it's not anything, and things
that turn out to be things. So how do we, like,

(01:04:13):
how can you, through VC venture and investing kind of
change some of that?

Speaker 16 (01:04:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:04:18):
Absolutely.

Speaker 16 (01:04:18):
I think it's a little known fact that we only
have thirty four years of women's health research. We were
only included in clinical trials since nineteen ninety three on
NIHU manity, it's insane. So when we go into the
doctor's office, it actually it's actually just lack of education
on MD's front. I mean, they only get four hours

(01:04:42):
of menopause training in their entire you know, eight years
of training, So some of it is not actually their fault,
but the research just has to catch up and the
education of the system has to catch up.

Speaker 9 (01:04:54):
So it's a.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
Shocking Can I just ask you them, is that research
being hurt by what's been going on in the government
and cuts.

Speaker 16 (01:04:59):
The We are like very much looking at the cuts, yeah,
because I think if they're they did initially say that
they were going to cut a longitudinal study that has
been going on for thirty years. They reinstated that until
at least January twenty twenty six, so we're now watching

(01:05:20):
that and if they cut it, then you know, we're
going to lose thirty years of launchitudel data that we've
been collecting over you know, with women over the course
of their lifetime.

Speaker 9 (01:05:31):
So we are looking at that from a research perspective.

Speaker 16 (01:05:36):
But I think what's amazing and where tech comes into
play is that these tech companies, especially with AI, are
now creating their own data sets to help empower these researchers.

Speaker 4 (01:05:48):
So how would it change your opportunities as a venture
capitalist if those cuts were to happen, And if we
do see a pullback in funding from Washington, we've already
seen a pullback in funding at least to university to research.
We talk to a lot of venture capitalists in the
biotech space about this. Does that make your job more
difficult because there will be fewer founders out there chasing

(01:06:09):
opportunities or does it shut opportunities shut opportunities off for you?

Speaker 16 (01:06:15):
I think one main, one major concern in the research
in biotech world and also VCS is just a brain
drain like these. You know, the tech companies are built
on the research that has been created over the last
thirty years or so. Now that we have AI, they

(01:06:35):
can finally do something with that data, create personalized care plans,
et cetera. But if the underlying data is not there
and that doesn't progress, then it's a lot harder to
build on top of it.

Speaker 9 (01:06:46):
And.

Speaker 16 (01:06:47):
Funding research is not really in the VC model, So
we can only fund the companies that are built on
top of that research, and we have to rely on
federal funding on other rants, on philanthropy to fund the
actual research that's underline. So my concern is that if
we're funding companies that are going to be great ten

(01:07:08):
years from now, then like what do I fund ten
years from now? If that if that research doesn't continue
at the clip it is today.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
We're tied with Jessica Kamada, founder and managing partner at
Swizzle Ventures. You initially said it's divided into kind of
three buckets, right, you chalked about healthcare, you talk about
caregiving and check financial health. Where are you finding the
most kind of entrepreneurs doing things? Is it equal? Are
there certain buckets that are you know, people that are
starting different companies? What do you find it.

Speaker 16 (01:07:34):
We've funded twenty portfolio companies in this current fund and
they're pretty split evenly among the three sectors. I would
say that in the caregiving sector, we're finding the most
opportunities in eldercare right now.

Speaker 9 (01:07:51):
Just because of the population progression play.

Speaker 16 (01:07:53):
I feel like with everything, it's a huge play's and
it's also something that is just undoubted. It's a bipartisan issue.
No one is gonna, you know, say, like argue that
the population is not aging, right, So it's something that
everyone agrees on and knows that the healthcare system will

(01:08:13):
be overwhelmed if we do not do something about it.

Speaker 4 (01:08:16):
But that's very employee intensive, that's very human intensive. And
there's been a lot of commentary about the immigrant labor
that actually does a lot of the caregiving of elders
in the United States and potentially how that will be affected.
Can this be solved with technology? I mean what it's
same with child like with with with caregiving for children,

(01:08:36):
like you need people to do that. How do you
how do you take a venture capitalist approach to this stuff?

Speaker 16 (01:08:42):
Yeah, part of it is trying to fix the system
and finding business models that are aligning all the incentives
at play, because a lot of it is just like incentives, right,
And the issue with human caregivers is that it's a
ruthless job. There's a lot of high turnover in it.
For example, one company that's here Ruby, well they enable

(01:09:05):
family caregivers to get paid through Medicare benefits that already exist.
So it's really about helping people navigate the system that's.

Speaker 9 (01:09:14):
So tricky and gate kept to figure out.

Speaker 16 (01:09:17):
But those dollars are there, they just can't They just
need help accessing them. And they work with the basically
staffing agencies, the home healthcare agencies that.

Speaker 11 (01:09:27):
Do that work.

Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
How easy is it for you to get capital and
create funds? She laughs?

Speaker 16 (01:09:35):
It was not as challenging as I had expected. However,
this was the first environment that I have raised a
fund in versus being in marketing in market in twenty
twenty one when I have heard that dollars were falling
from this guy. So one of the things about my
thesis is that it's very relatable. Every single human has

(01:09:57):
struggled through a personal pivotal life.

Speaker 9 (01:09:59):
Stage, be a man or woman, right, And.

Speaker 16 (01:10:02):
I think that relatability has helped me to for investors
to understand what I'm trying to build.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
But even women specifically, like is there always it's it's
a little trickier, right, when it's it's a little trick
these issues, I feel like it's a.

Speaker 16 (01:10:16):
Little trickier until you dig in to say, to explain
the economic opportunity, I mean, investing in women's health is
a one trillion dollar market, three hundred and twenty billion
in the US alone, So when you really uncover the
numbers behind the opportunity, it's far larger than people expect.

(01:10:39):
And that people typically what I lead with. Yeah, and
from a help and from a wealth perspective when we
think about the great wealth transfer already in play.

Speaker 9 (01:10:50):
Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 4 (01:10:51):
Well I don't mean to sound glib, but if you
were to sort of look at the categories that might
be the least challenging to disrupt through venture capital and
through funding companies, it wouldn't be these categories. I mean,
these are these are categories that are ripe with regulation. Yes,

(01:11:12):
there are categories that aren't necessary. It's not like you're
creating an app, you know, there are sometimes you are
human capital intensive though, like this is this is a
really challenging space I think is that is am I
am I wrong about that? Like I know, but like
all venture capital stuff, thanks Carol, but like you know,
all all all that, this is really tough stuff. But

(01:11:32):
it's like you see the way money is flowing for
like AI agents and like companies that are built on
chat GPT, that that seems to be the path of
least resistance right now.

Speaker 16 (01:11:42):
So I was at a consumer AI summit and a
lot of the companies were creating like shop like connecting
you to the right clothes, and like things that are
really fun, and there does need to be fun in
consumer AI does need to be fun to use, but
it also needs to be helping, like very foundational human things,

(01:12:04):
and it can do that as well. Like sometimes I
think in these categories it doesn't actually need to be flashy.
It just needs to solve a problem. Like for instance,
we have some companies that are not that high tech.
It's you know, a mental health company where they're just

(01:12:25):
providing access to mental health professionals after you have a baby,
which is a leading cause of maternal death. And it's
like it's not that hard or a concept, and it
doesn't really require AI. It's just filling a need that
didn't exist before. And there are so many more of
those in women's health and these categories because they've been
so overlooked and underinvested in. So yes, we have fancy

(01:12:49):
AI companies like investment platforms directed at gen z.

Speaker 9 (01:12:54):
Or like hormone hormonal monitors.

Speaker 16 (01:12:59):
That you can you at home, but some of them
are not as high tech and they don't need to be.

Speaker 1 (01:13:05):
What would surprise somebody about investing in this space. I
know you talked about the economics, which I thought was
really kind of telling some of the numbers right, because
when people see I'm sure hear that, they're like, oh,
I get it right, this is a really untap marketplace.

Speaker 9 (01:13:18):
Why aren't we doing more?

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
But I'm just curious, as you've been like talking to
entrepreneurs thinking about you know, initiatives specifically that fall into
you know, women's fields.

Speaker 16 (01:13:30):
I think people are surprised at how much deal flow
there actually is and how many people are building in
these spaces.

Speaker 9 (01:13:37):
Because they're building for themselves.

Speaker 16 (01:13:39):
Typically, they're building because they see a need of their
own in their own life that was un through one
of these pivotal life stages, right, and they don't see
anyone else tackling it, and so they go forward themselves.

Speaker 3 (01:13:51):
It's funny.

Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
That's what Bill Harris said formally of PayPal, and he
said his current investment firm, it was something he wanted,
he needed, and that's what he created, Like makes most
sense for entrepreneurs to be doing that. That's Jessica Kamad,
a founder and managing partner at Swizzle Venture. As you
can hear all of our conversations from the event, just
head to Bloomberg dot com or check out our podcast feed,
and that wraps up the Weekend edition, a special holiday

(01:14:12):
weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Thank
you so much for joining us. Be sure to tune
into Bloomberg BusinessWeek Daily Monday through Friday starting at two
pm Wall Street Time on Bloomberg Television, Bloomberg Radio, and
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also watch our daily broadcast on YouTube, just search Bloomberg Podcasts,

(01:14:35):
or simulcast on Bloomberg Originals available at Bloomberg dot com,
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at Bloomberg dot com, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast,
and the latest edition of the magazine available on newsstands
now at Bloomberg dot com always on the Bloomberg terminal.

(01:14:56):
I'm Carol Masser along with Tim Stenoveek. Have a good
save weekend, a happy holiday weekend, and do stay with us.
Today's top stories at Global Business Headlines are coming up
right now.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Available on Apple, Spotify,
and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday
afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com,
the iHeartRadio app tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app.
You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube

(01:15:28):
and always on the Bloomberg terminal

All Episodes

Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - July 4th, 2025

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Tim Stenovec

Carol Massar

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - July 4th, 2025