May 15, 2025 • 37 mins
Watch Carol and Tim LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF.
Coinbase Global Inc. is cooperating with the US Securities and Exchange Commission on an agency probe into its previously reported user metrics, the company said Thursday.
“This is a hold-over investigation from the prior administration about a metric we stopped reporting two and a half years ago, which was fully disclosed to the public,” Paul Grewal, Coinbase’s chief legal officer, said in a statement. “While we strongly believe this investigation should not continue, we remain committed to working with the SEC to bring this matter to a close.”
Grewal noted that Coinbase’s “verified users metric” might have overstated the number of unique customers and that the company continues to disclose “the more relevant metric of ‘monthly transacting users’” on the platform. The SEC declined to comment.
Meanwhile, it turns out that hackers had near-constant access to some of Coinbase’s most valuable customer data since January, according to a person familiar with the incident who asked not to be named discussing company matters.
The largest US crypto exchange disclosed earlier on Thursday that hackers bribed customer representatives to steal the data and then demanded a $20 million ransom to delete it. Coinbase began noticing unusual activity from some of these representatives in January, the company confirmed in an interview with Bloomberg News.
The hackers bribed customer service representatives to get access to names, dates of birth, addresses, nationalities, government-issued ID numbers, some banking details and details about when customer’s accounts were created and their balance, the person familiar with the situation said. This information could be used to attempt to impersonate Coinbase and convince customers to let the hackers into their account. It could also be used to impersonate the victims with other service providers to attempt to convince them to let hackers into other financial accounts they might own.
The threat actors had bribed enough customer service representatives to achieve effectively on-demand access to Coinbase customer information in the past five months, the person said. In an interview with Bloomberg News, Chief Security Officer Philip Martin disputed the near constant access assertion, saying Coinbase pulled the agents’ access as soon as it was discovered they were improperly sharing information. Therefore the hackers “did not have persistent access over the course of the entire period,” he said.
Today's show features:
- stacy-marie ishmael, Bloomberg News Executive Editor for Crypto and payments
- Dana Telsey, CEO and Chief Research Officer of Telsey Advisory Group
- Bloomberg News National Security Reporter Jamie Tarabay
- Tim Herbert, Chairman, President and CEO of Inspire Medical Systems
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Bloomberg business
Weekdaily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay
ahead with insight on the people, companies, and trends shaping
today's complex economy. Plus global business, finance and tech news
(00:23):
as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast with
Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I'm looking right now at shares of Coinbase. They're down
about six and a half percent. They fell as much
as eight point nine percent. This was this after The
New York Times reported that the SEC has been investigating
Coinbase whether or not it misstated its user numbers in
past disclosures. I want to bring in Stacey Marie Ishmel.
She's executive editor for Crypto and Payments. She joins us
(00:52):
here in the Bloomberg BusinessWeek Studio. What do we know
about this?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Well, I think the first thing we know is, and
this is going to come as a surprise to a
lot of few wells, that the SEC has not in
fact dropped any in all of its potential enforcement actions
against crypto companies. You know, there was a move over
the past couple of months for this very important financial
regulator to say, hey, when it comes to crypto, we're
largely not going to be looking into most things. So
(01:16):
it was interesting to see you both the New York
Times story and then the confirmation statement from Coinbase that
this was an ongoing investigation coming out of the Genstler era,
at a time when I think a lot of folks
in the industry had thought, okay, good, all clear, there's
no hangovers and we don't need to worry about anything.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Is there something different about this case than the cases
that have been dropped.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I think one of the key points is it does
relate to sort of a very bread and butter SEC issue,
which is are you being accurate and transparent in your disclosures?
And at heart of it is this idea that, according
to the SEC's allegations, or i should say, according to
the allegations represented in the New York Times story, Coinbase
(01:58):
had previously you used a verified user figure of one
hundred million, which they stopped using a couple of years ago,
and according to the SEC that that figure was initially misleading.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
So this is the second piece of news that we're
getting in regards to Coinbase just today.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
Yes today, Yes, totally. There was also a reported hack.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Tell us what's going on with that.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Yeah, this one is arguably a bigger deal in that
it's happening now and it affects very sensitive customer data.
So Coinbase put out a statement and regulatory filing earlier
today that hackers had targeted some of their overseas kind
of contractors and workers and brought offered them bribes to
(02:45):
seal sensitive customer data. Now, when we're talking sensitive customer data,
we're not just talking about email addresses and passwords. It's
like photographs of your government ID, you know, things people
would have had to submit to verify their identities. In
some cases it was you know, physical addresses, mailing addresses,
you know, so you can imagine with those government nineties.
It's also things like date of birth. There might be
(03:06):
other forms of contact information. So that is, you know,
in a moment in which crypto companies are have been
on a kind of a charm offensive since the since
President Trump was inaugurated, to say, you know, hey, crypto
is safe, it's reliable. It's the future of finance. To
have something that comes in and sort of reminds people
that crypto companies are high value targets for hackers is
(03:28):
the timing is a little bit challenging for them.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Well, speaking of timing, I mean Coinbase probably wanted us
talking about their inclusion in the S and P five
hundred this week, which was remarkable given the fact that
we saw the stock move higher by twenty four percent
YEP on Tuesday as a result of the news that
it would be included in the S and P five
under replacing Discovery replacing the.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Stock companies, which you know, I think is kind of
exactly what we're talking about here. And if you think
of Discover Financial as like the bastion of what some
people in cryptoil liked to call old finance or traditional finance,
and then this crypto exchange coming in and being like
or the future of finance, and then you know, the
news cycle is like time out some reminders about the
risks embedded in innovation.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Does it I don't want to ask you if it
taints the moment at all, But for me, the news
earlier this week about its inclusion in the S and
P five hundred, it felt really symbolic as a recognition
that this asset class was being recognized by as a
blue chip essentially.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Yeah, and I think one of you know, having been
somebody paying close attention to this for a minute, one
of the things that really struck me is that feels
like it happens all the time. Like you know, Emily,
you remember when we were doing stories about the Super
Bowl of Crypto, when you had FTX and others being like,
(04:48):
come join, do these amazing things. And then what happens
to FDx very shortly after it filed for bankruptcy sand
bankqueint Freed was in handcuffs being accused of massive fraud.
And so like crypto goes through, much like crypto prices themselves,
these moments in which that long awaited day for many
executives is institutional acceptance, retail acceptance, and tim to your point,
(05:10):
this idea of we are a legitimate asset class, we
are a contender, you should take us seriously, and then
something happens in the market where they're like, or here
are some bad things like can happened instead.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
But it's interesting because now that if they want to
be treated like a you know, a public company in
the s and P. Five hundred, they're going to be
up to the scrutiny of just like any other public company.
So I thought it was a very interesting point that
you made in the beginning that like this SEC probe,
it's not unique to crypto.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Companies, certainly not. And you know it's it's the we're
in an interesting period in which crypto companies, when they're
being scrutinized, it's not because of the assets underlying them, right,
It's more like you are doing big company things. This
is the big company behavior we expect.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Stacey Mrie Stacey re Ishmael, Executive editor for cript Do
and Payments at Bloomberg News. You can check out the
entire teams reporting on the Bloomberg terminal and of course
at Bloomberg dot com.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast. Catch
us live weekday afternoons from two to five eas during
listen on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app,
or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Let's bring in Dana Telsey. She's found her CEO and
Chief Research Officer of Telsey Advisory Group for Specialty all
Things retail. Dana, I want to start with Walmart, even
though this is not a company that you particularly follow.
One of your colleagues does that, but the company did
say that it is going to pass on costs to consumers,
(06:43):
not yet but soon. We saw shares fall. How do
you take the results that we got from the company
today in the context of what we know about tariffs
and also the way that you've been talking about potentially
empty shelves in the next couple of weeks.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
A couple things, and thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 6 (06:59):
First of all, if a like Walmart, with the skies
and scale of Walmart is going to raise prices because
of the external environment out there, what does it say
for all the others? So everyone, given the headwinds of
carries and costs that are out there, price increases are coming. However,
it may be selective. It's not going to be across
the board. It'll be called surgical, whatever word you want
(07:22):
to use, it'll be surgical and what it is. But
I've even heard we have this price tracker where we've
been tracking eighty items and it comes out every Tuesday,
same eighty items. And we have seen of the eighty
items we track, around twenty percent of them have a price,
have had a price increase each week, and it changes.
Sometimes there may be a promotion, sometimes there's an event,
but just on a tracker basis, price increases are coming.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
There's a reason.
Speaker 6 (07:46):
Why, in my mind, there has been some pull forward
to sales the tracker.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
This is fascinating to me that you have this tracker.
Is is there rhyme or reason too the types of
products that are being that are increasing in price.
Speaker 6 (08:00):
Well, we track the same items every week, and it
could their legacy items, whether it's a pair of Levi's
or it's a Barbie doll, whatever.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
It may be.
Speaker 6 (08:09):
There isn't a rhyme or reason. But what's happening is
that we expect when we heard about these tariffs, we
need a way to be able to track it. And
so this way, look what Walmart just said, prices increases
are coming. Let's see what this tracker shows in the
next four weeks in terms of pricing. So it's very interesting.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Michael McKee had mentioned, you know, the difference that we're
seeing in the soft data and the hard data that
consumers are saying that they're really pessimistic, but we're not
necessarily seeing that yet in hard data or earnings reports.
Are you do you agree with that thesis or are
you seeing pockets in some of these earnings reports that
consumers are feeling the pain.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
A little bit of each.
Speaker 6 (08:49):
When you think about where there's been a slow down,
luxury brands has been a slow down. You take a
look at the high end. LVMH reported a negative three
percent same store sales decline. That's typically weaker for an LVMH.
You're seeing other companies that are brand leaders at not
the luxury price points, but where there's brand leaders, where
there's innovation. Look at today's results that came out of Birkenstock.
(09:13):
You had a high teen sales increase, you increase the
guidance for the year on sales the high end of
the previous range seventeen percent plus, and you increase your ajusity.
But da, what do they have? They have newness and
innovation at the same time. I met with Tapestry on Tuesday,
I met with Levi's yesterday. Tapestry and Levi's and Birkenstock
(09:33):
heritage companies with authenticity that are reinventing their product. You
know what they're doing. They're capturing a younger consumer. And
companies like Coach, which is owned by Tapestry, a fifteen
percent increase in averaging retail selling price.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
Why it's new and different.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Emily and I are smiling right now because on our
editorial call this morning, I said, we have to ask
Dan about Birkenstock shares are up what six percent? You
were on surveillance with Tom Keen and me last week.
We asked you to name one company to watch. You
said it was Birkenstock. You called this why are you
bullish on Birkenstock?
Speaker 6 (10:04):
Because their footwear overall has wide appeal. You have the
flywheel of younger customers that are being attracted to the brand.
It's not just open toed sandals, it's closed toed shoes.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
Also, you look at the.
Speaker 6 (10:16):
Expansion opportunities they have with their own stores. They only
have around ten stores in the US. They have wholesale
accounts who have stores, but of their own. You take
a look at Asia, which is a rising market for them.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
You look at the fact that they bring in goods
they're made in Europe.
Speaker 6 (10:31):
Yes, they have terif exposure, but not the as significant
teriff exposure. And look at their adjustinity bitdam margins, I
mean you're in exos to thirty one percent. I don't
have many companies that are generating mid to high teen
sales increases with increasing EBITDA margins in an environment where
the uncertainty.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
But you're seeing a little bit in footwear.
Speaker 6 (10:52):
You look at some of the other brands, Socony thirty
percent increase in sales by Wolverine worldwide, Merrill up in
excess to thirteen percent.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
So newness drives demand.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Yeah, Maryls are having a comeback. I've seen a couple
Marrals on the streets of New York City and that
was like a shoe that.
Speaker 5 (11:07):
I want, I like to hear when I was like
a child's But.
Speaker 7 (11:10):
They're coming back, you know.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Dan, I was looking at the S and P five
hundred sectors, the group levels. What was the top performing
this year so far? What's the worst? Consumer Staples is
one of the best performing groups. Consumer discretionary is one
of the worst. How are investors supposed to invest in
the consumer space at large? How should they be thinking
about kind of the direction of travel when.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
You those when you think about exactly the difference with
staples and discretionary staples as essentials, it's what you need,
not what you want.
Speaker 5 (11:41):
And when you think about this environment where we don't.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
Know what the price increases is going to be We've
all seen the backward looking data of consumer confidence, and
so they're being careful. And so with staples, that's careful.
With discretionary, it feels you have spending power. There's always
the old adage that goes when the stock market it
goes up, people feel great and spending can happen when
the stock market comes down. You know, mind the hatchets,
(12:07):
you know, be careful. And so look what we've had
over the past two months. That's what you've had. Companies
in the consumer area are reporting first quarter earnings. Now
when you look at Walmart and what's to come, if
they're saying prices are going up, that's going to be
the mantra going forward.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
We got to get you to weigh in on Dick's
buying foot Locker. Dick shares down about sixteen percent right now,
Footlocker hire by eighty five percent, but that's still you know,
going back to like just a few months ago. I
think those are like December levels that we're saying, what
does it say to you? I mean, this is the
end of an era for foot Locker. This is a
company that's been a public company since nineteen eighty What
does this m and A mean to you.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
So overall on the M and A, where's the scale
and where's the synergies? Foot Locker on its own is
taking a long time to undergo this transformation, even under
a well recognized, well respected.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
CEO, Mary Dillon.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
She came from Malta.
Speaker 6 (12:59):
Right, great things at Alta ed Stack. Basically you know
Legacy Dix, his father founded it, Lauren Hobart. They basically
reinvented what Dix was with Dick's House of Sport. You
talk to every real estate landlord. What do they all
want Dick's House of Sport?
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Why?
Speaker 6 (13:15):
Because it brings traffic. What's the difference between Dix and Footlocker.
The customer base of Footlocker the eighteen to twenty five
year old guy. The customer base at Dix could be
more families. What do you get with both of it?
And granted the stock is down because the certainty of
the execution at Dix's, Dix alone was there and you
(13:36):
could basically see the path of growth with House the Sport.
Putting it together, there's work to be done, transformation to
be done with foot Locker gives them more buying power.
Let's see what Dix does because what ed Stack says
is he's got the vision. He had the vision before
with House of Sport. Let's see what he can do
with foot locker.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Just thirty seconds. Sounds like you're optimistic. This is a
good deal.
Speaker 6 (13:57):
I think it's the valuation basically at six times and
seventeen times, PE's not bad from that spectrum. What is
it time length? And can you keep the focus on
Dick's and Dick's House a Sport while you're integrating full
lockers the question go forward?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
All right, Dana, appreciate you joining us from talk to retail.
Not a better voice out there, Dana Telsey, founder, CEO,
chief Research Officer of Telsey Advisory Group, joining us here
in the Bloomberg a BusinessWeek Studio.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live
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Speaker 4 (14:44):
All right, well, Cutter's offering of a luxury Boeing seven
forty seven. President Donald Trump has set off alarm bells
within the US intelligence and diplomatic community, where gifts from
foreign powers have long been viewed with suspicion. Jamie terrib
writes the story today. She's Bloomberg News national security reporter,
and she joins us on Zoom from Washington, DC to
(15:07):
discuss give us the latest on what is going on
right now. Trump is potentially getting a plane.
Speaker 8 (15:15):
He has been offered a reportedly four hundred million dollar
luxury jumbo jet by the Qatari government for his use,
because he has been quite vocal about his frustration with
Boeing for the delays in the delivery of the Air
Force one jets that he has asked for during his
(15:37):
first administration. The current Air Force one planes that he
uses are decades old, and they certainly don't compare when
you stand them up against, you know, the sort of
the luxury furnishings, French interior designed comfort that a Katari
royal family would enjoy in the air. But of the
(16:01):
question of the gift, the question of the plane itself
being used by the President of the United States has
raised all kinds of concerns, whether they're legal or ethical.
Speaker 7 (16:12):
But I've been.
Speaker 8 (16:13):
Focusing a lot more on the security concerns that are
inherent with accepting any kind of gift, let alone a plane.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Let's talk about those security concerns. I can't stop laughing
when you quoted Thad Troy, a former station chief with
the CIA, who said, if we had built the plane
knowing it was going to a foreign government, we would
probably have bugged it. Like that's just the way it
works when it comes to one country in another country,
when it comes to national intelligence, when it comes to
(16:42):
the CIA, what did you learn in your reporting about
this being a national security challenge for the US.
Speaker 8 (16:51):
There wasn't a single person, whether they were a former
three letter agency, intelligence, foreign service, international intelligence officers that
I spoke to who said for sure that plane would
be bogged in some fashion, whether it was by special
interests from the host family or from you know, self
(17:13):
interest within.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
That country, or allies or friends.
Speaker 8 (17:16):
Or adversaries hacking into surveillance systems. It's still it's it's
very porous before it gets the word that they used
a lot to me was hardened, and it gets hardened
when it becomes a DoD approved aircraft. And you know,
I didn't even know a lot of these things when
I was working on this and talking to all these people.
(17:39):
But the airplane itself needs to be hardened to withstand
an explosion, It needs to be able to continue, it
needs to be able to fuel air to air, It
has a surgical center. It's basically a flying White House,
complete with a situation room.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
So the first.
Speaker 8 (17:58):
The idea of having something like that at being given
to the US by a foreign government and not doing
all kinds of security sweeps to establish that it's clean
and it's fine, and then going in and fortifying it,
weaponizing it and getting it ready for the president, it's
(18:20):
it just seems I was told it would take months,
if not years to accomplish everything to everyone's satisfaction. So
I don't know if those security concerns will make a
difference or not, but that was definitely something that the
people that I speak to that was immediately where their
minds went.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
So in terms of the security concerns, and we talk
about potentially bugging spy, where are there any other concerns
like tech like tech related security concerns that come about
with a foreign party giving the US a plane.
Speaker 8 (18:59):
The technical concerns that I I mean, there were people
who were talking to me who said they didn't want
to say what they were thinking because they didn't want
to give any one idea. Well, you know, I mean
installing a kill switch, you know, playing with the mechanism.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
That is some seriously scary stuff. I thought you were
going to be talking about, like, you know, a microphone
hidden behind the wall of the plane or something. I mean,
that is some seriously scary stuff.
Speaker 8 (19:27):
I spoke to someone who was living across the road
from the US embassy in Moscow during the Cold War,
and he said that the listening devices were inside the concrete,
in the bricks. So the idea of wiring and behind
the molding and all these beautiful furnishings is not out
of the.
Speaker 7 (19:46):
Realm of possibility.
Speaker 8 (19:47):
So you know, I mean, you just have to have
an imagination and you can imagine how creative you can
be with what you install. And where there could be
cameras inside, there could be a loaf case tracker that
will tell you exactly where the president is at any time.
So these are all things that not only like in
danger he's saved in security, but also could give anyone
(20:11):
intelligence on the sort of communications and conversations that he
might be having with people. On the plane with him
or with people you know elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
This is remarkable. Well yeah, yeah, you actually really have.
But what you also point out in your piece the
criticism that the president has gotten from people who've been
allied with him, including Ben Shapiro, Laura Lumer, and others.
But he's kind of holding firm, at least with his
public comments that this is the type of gift he
(20:42):
would accept.
Speaker 8 (20:44):
Well, it's become a poison chalice in a way, because
you know, it is it is a tremendous honor that
he has been paid by this Arab.
Speaker 7 (20:54):
Country to accept this gift.
Speaker 8 (20:58):
And you know the Arabs. I'm Lebanine, so I think
I know something about this, but they're big gift gippers
and there the hospitality is really embedded in the culture.
So this for them is a really it's it's it's
a huge gesture. But it also, you know, it runs
completely counter to what what what a lot of Trump
(21:18):
supporters stand by, not just the sort of the ethical
concerns and the idea of what's the quick pro quo here,
But you know, katar is, it's a complicated. Uh, it
has complicated relationships with countries that may not have relationships
with the US that have strained relationships with the US.
(21:38):
And it also it has been a very active participant
in the Ganza talks because Hamas for the longest time
has a political office in Doha, so you know, it's
there's there's a lot there and so you know, I
was talking to one person about the capabilities of the
(21:58):
Qatari Intelligent and Service and he said to me, well,
we train them, so you know, I mean, if they're good,
it's you know, a lot that has to do with
the fact that they have the strategic security partnership with
the US. The US has a military based in cutter
So it's very, very, very complicated, and I think it
just should be treated with a lot of caution and wariness.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
And you know what we used to hear like trust
but verify.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Right, I mean, this story you've given us a lot
to think about. Jamie, appreciate you joining us. Jamie Terraby,
she covers national security. She's out of our Washington, DC bureau,
but she spent time in Baghdad. She was the bureau
chief for NPR News close to twenty years ago. She
reported on the unraveling of Iraqi society. She was with
(22:47):
Al Jazeera America. She was with CNN. She's been doing
this for a long time. Check out her stories on
the Bloomberg Terminal and of course at Bloomberg dot Com
as well. You're listening to and watching Bloomberg BusinessWeek Daily.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast. Catch
us live weekday afternoons from two to five eastering. Listen
on Apple Karplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app,
or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
As we mentioned, companies just day after day in the
most recent earnings period have been pulling their guidance. They've
been lowering their expectations for earnings per share. One company
last week though, doing the exact opposite of that, Inspire
Medical Systems, reported and they actually kept their guidance for revenue.
They raise their EPs guidance. We've got Tim Herbert with
(23:37):
us right now. He's founder, chairman, and president of Inspire
Medical Systems. It's a medtech company. It specializes in devices
for sleep apnea. Tim joins us from Minneapolis. Tim, what's
working for you? Why in the face of so much
uncertainty concerns about trade And we'll talk about that in
just a second, why are you actually increasing your guidance freeps, Well, thank.
Speaker 7 (23:58):
You so much for having us today.
Speaker 9 (24:00):
I think if we stay focused on the patient, we
stay focused on the outcomes that our therapy can deliver,
it to help people with obstructive sleep at me and
with that, we know that demand for a therapy is
quite high and we can.
Speaker 7 (24:13):
Show it continued growth.
Speaker 9 (24:15):
As long as we continue to add our innovation and
continue to focus on the patient, we can see.
Speaker 7 (24:21):
Sustained growth going forward.
Speaker 9 (24:23):
And now that we're a profitable company, we can increase
our guide on our earnings per share as well. So
the futures in front of us, we really just stay
we made focus and we can continue to see growth
moving forward.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Tim, you said in your earnings that most of your
products are currently sourced and assembled primarily in the US,
and I'm wondering to what extent that has helped the
success of the company right now.
Speaker 7 (24:50):
Well, I think that that's certainly true.
Speaker 9 (24:52):
I think that we want to make sure that we
provide the best possible products for our patients, and being
an implant product is the highest level of quality that
the products have, and so we're able to really make
sure that we source our products, make sure that we
assemble now in the United States, we can really control
(25:13):
the quality of that and we can really stand behind
the products as we move forward.
Speaker 7 (25:18):
So we watch the turiffs. Of course, we watched the
trade discussions going on, but.
Speaker 9 (25:24):
Where we are right now that that's rather dimendmus to
our business today.
Speaker 7 (25:29):
And again we can remain focused on the patient.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
You got to explain to us how this product actually
works because you have the first and only FDA approved
implant to treat this type of sleep apnea. I think
a lot of people here sleep apnea, They think of masks.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
What's an implant?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Where does it go?
Speaker 9 (25:46):
Well, let's start with what is obstructed sleep AVENE and
is when you're sleeping, your airway actually restricts airflow. Therefore
you're not getting proper oxygen into your lungs and transition
to the bloods and so you have a low ox
gin level and your blood during sleep and you're not.
Speaker 7 (26:02):
Getting RESTful sleep during the night.
Speaker 9 (26:04):
And I think most people know somebody who may wear
or been given a mask that they put on their
on their face at night. It's called the sea papera
continuous positive airway pressure, and that the method is to
blow pressure that continuously holds your airway open while you sleep,
preventing obstructive sleep ABNA. But of course, as you can
(26:26):
imagine by having an apparatus on your face and that
constant pressure, there's a percent of patients, up to fifty
percent of the patients just cannot tolerate that therapy. And
it's necessary to treat obstructive sleep an because the risks
of stroke or heart failure, high blood pressure, even diabetes,
and it's been shown to be causal for early mortality.
(26:48):
It's important that patients receive proper treatment. Knowing that patients
with seat PAPERA unable to tolerate that therapy. What we
had inspired it is we created an implantable product that
we're inside your body and we provide mild stimulation to
the hypogloss of nerve, a nerve just underneath your chain,
and so when you breathe in, we stimulate the tongue
(27:10):
and hold the tongue open while you.
Speaker 7 (27:12):
Breed, preventing the sleep at me events.
Speaker 9 (27:15):
Over the years, we were improved in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 7 (27:19):
By the FDA.
Speaker 9 (27:19):
We're the only product approved in the United States and
today we have treated over one hundred thousand patients with
Inspire therapy. We're proud to say that a patient in
the United States receives Inspire every fifteen minutes. And just
this week we announced the fifth generation of Inspire.
Speaker 7 (27:37):
This is the Inspire five, the fifth generation.
Speaker 9 (27:40):
You can see, have a small device that works inside
your body. And now we're working with well over thousand
clinics and hospitals in the United States to get them
under contracts so they can offer the fifth generation product
to their patients.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
I'm curious, if it's so effective, if patients are saying
that they would r use this than the mask, why
isn't everyone in the industry going to this implant model
over the seapop mask.
Speaker 9 (28:07):
Well, seapap has been around for quite some period of
time and it's very prevalent therapy.
Speaker 7 (28:12):
But you're right, with the number of patients out there,
we know we're very.
Speaker 9 (28:16):
Lightly penetrated in the target market of the patients that
we wish to serve, So we're continuing to grow. Since
we went public in twenty eighteen, we shown a fifty
eight percent care in our revenue, so it's been a
very steady growth and adoption and a number of patients
that we can treat and as we talk about in
twenty twenty four as our first year of profitability, so we.
Speaker 7 (28:37):
Can continue to grow the adoption of the therapy.
Speaker 9 (28:40):
We really again focus on the patients and having very
high level of therapy outcomes, and that's what that's going
to really be the impetus for further growth in the future,
and we will see additional companies developing competing therapies because
I think the therapy adoption is becoming quite well aware
(29:01):
and people are really adopting to it.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Tim, You've been in the business for a long time.
Even before this in two thousand and seven, you spent
over a decade ad Medtronic and this is where Inspire
spun out of. You've spent a lot of time working
with the FDA. The FDA right now under AHHS Secretary
RFK Junior looks a lot different than the FDA under
previous administrations. What have you noticed as differences that your
(29:25):
team has experienced or encountered with this FDA versus other FDAs.
Speaker 9 (29:30):
Yeah, I think what's most important is making sure you
set a good plan to execute and demonstrate safety and
efficacy or products. Make sure that you work in concert
with your partners at the FDA, so they understand your strategy,
they understand the trials that you're embarking on, and then
be able to be transparent and show them the data
(29:53):
that can prove that your therapy is efficacious as well
as your ability to manufacture, produce implicate.
Speaker 7 (30:00):
Those same results as you move forward into the market.
And with that, that's the one common thread with.
Speaker 9 (30:06):
FDA that remains where it needs to be that the
FDA knows what their jobs are. Yes, there's stress points
with the FDA, especially with the concerns over their budgets
and do they have to cut back here or cut
back where, But I think the FDA really understands what's
important and to be able to really be able to
(30:26):
evaluate products.
Speaker 7 (30:28):
And so our.
Speaker 9 (30:28):
Team has a good relationship with the FDA because they
are transparent. We're provide all the necessary data to them
in a timely manner. They understand the items for which
we will be submitting to them, so the FDA can
plan their resources appropriately as well. So, yes, I understand
the FDA is understrained, but they're also working really hard
(30:49):
to continue to deliver the proper reviews necessary for these
medical devices.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
So you're still confident in the FDA despite the changes
that we've seen at HHS.
Speaker 9 (30:58):
Already their job, they know how to review product, They
know how to ask the necessary questions to get the
proper products out in the market. They are under stress,
as we talked about, with concerns over the budget. How
can we control the budget a little bit more yet
still be able to be as.
Speaker 7 (31:16):
Effective in getting the reviews out there.
Speaker 9 (31:19):
So, at least in our part of the world and
the medical device side, I think the FDA knows their
role and they're still able to perform those proper reviews.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
Tim, what about insurance, do you think that the insurance
companies are a constraint on more widespread adoption of the implant?
Speaker 7 (31:37):
Well, I think again with the insurance companies, they also.
Speaker 9 (31:40):
Take sucuriny, just like the FDA, to make sure that
the products that they cover do have the proper safety
and effectiveness and to ensure that their customers the patient
have the benefits expected from the products if the insurance
companies are being asked to pay for it.
Speaker 7 (31:57):
So again, we are very transparent.
Speaker 9 (31:59):
We make sure that we continually monitor our progress, continue
to publish on the safety and effectiveness and the new
generation of products like to Inspire five device, and so
we can give that information also to the insurance companies
and be transparent so they really understand that they know
if they're going to cover an Inspire case, that they
know the patient can expect a high patient outcome and
(32:22):
a benefit with the therapy.
Speaker 7 (32:24):
So again they're doing their jobs too. They're under a lot.
Speaker 9 (32:27):
Of strainers as we've as you just talked about the
prior segment, and it's really hard for them to keep
focused on covering their proper patients and making sure Companies
like ours are staying on our toes to make sure
that we are delivering the highest level quality to get
the best patient outcomes.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
We're speaking with Tim Herbert, founder, chairman and president and
CEO of Inspire Medical Systems. Tim, we wanted to speak
to you today also about health and the association with
sleep apnea and health. So curious now how people with
the age of Apple watches or rings other devices that
help measure sleep, if that tells them and those devices
(33:05):
tell them that they may have sleep apnea and then
they don't have to go spend the night in some
sort of sleep study sleep lab.
Speaker 9 (33:11):
Right, it's so important that we talk about the three
pillars of life.
Speaker 7 (33:15):
Or diet, exercise, and a good night's sleep.
Speaker 9 (33:17):
And so now with the technology so available, people have
just provided information on their own health and the number
of steps they took, their caloric intake, and also how
well did they sleep. And your or a ring will
give you a little bit more precise information than your
Apple watch.
Speaker 7 (33:35):
Well, your Apple watch may tell you to you know,
maybe we might want to.
Speaker 9 (33:39):
Call your doctor to have your sleep evaluated because you
may have a sleep disorder such as obstructive sleep ABNA.
Speaker 7 (33:46):
Sleep physicians today have many, many more tools available to
help assess sleep BABNA. In the old days, as you
refer to.
Speaker 9 (33:54):
You'd be brought to a hospital bed and put wires
all over your body and they tell you and I'll
go to sleep so we can evaluate you.
Speaker 7 (34:02):
It's just not a comfortable environment to get a really
accurate measurement of the quality of your sleep. So today
there's many home sleep tests.
Speaker 9 (34:09):
It's just a simple pass out symmetry that will go
on your fingertip to measure how well you're sleeping and
if you're having obstructive events.
Speaker 7 (34:17):
And then we can use things like the rings and.
Speaker 9 (34:21):
The watches, and there's even sensors that come in some
mattresses that will tell you how good your sleep is
and are you having obstructive events to be able to
monitor successive therapy such as Inspire, and so I think
the advent of technology for sleep is just beginning. It's
really going to grow, and we like to leverage that
(34:42):
technology to help monitor just how successful Inspire is with
our patients. Again focusing on patient outcomes, knowing that we
want sustained benefit because with sustained benefit of treating obstructed
sleep ABTY, it can have a reduction in some of
those former abilities, and that's what's a really important. So
if a patient's gunning as a therapy, they need to
(35:03):
show their adherent to that therapy and they know the
need to show that that therapy is effective. That's with
these tools and these watches in these race that's what
it's bringing to the patients, and the patients want to
be a part of their own solution, so they are
able to monitor how well they're sleeping and how well
their bed partner is sleeping as well. And that's the
(35:25):
greatest source of identifying sleep disorders is the bad partner
because they're right there, they see the patient they're snoring
or they stop breathing, having an obstruct obstructed sleep at
any event. So it's fun to watch it technology evolve
and we want to make sure that we remain.
Speaker 7 (35:41):
A part of that.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Americans seem to be better at monitoring the sleep. The
sleep tech is getting better. Just last question, Tim, do
you think Americans are sleeping better? Are we getting better
at sleep or are we getting worse. There's a ton
more distractions these days.
Speaker 9 (35:57):
There are, but people are becoming so much more aware
of it and aware of how important it is to
get a good night's sleep, and if you have sleep disorders,
to make sure that you get proper treatment and proper
care to monitor or receive and monitor how well that
treatment is working for you.
Speaker 7 (36:12):
So, yes, as we're aging the muscles.
Speaker 9 (36:15):
Relax a little bit more, you tend to have a
little bit more storing and a little bit more obstructive
sleep abnea.
Speaker 7 (36:21):
So it's important that we monitor our sleep.
Speaker 9 (36:23):
It's also very important to make sure we maintain a
good sleep hygiene, that you have consistency and when you
go to bed and don't have the distractions in the
room and get a RESTful night's sleep, but measure how
well you sleep because the tools are available. And more importantly,
if your bed partner is not having a good night
sleep or consistently snoring or having that breakage in breathing patterns, then.
Speaker 7 (36:47):
They be seen by their family practice doctor.
Speaker 9 (36:50):
That by being referred to a sleep physician, being evaluated
because the cause of effects of untreated, monitored to severe
sleep avenia is really detrimental. Fact again highlighted earlier on,
there are risks of comorbidity are even quite severe. So yes,
I think America is sleeping better and will continue to
get better as technology advances and provides information to guide
(37:13):
that process.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Tim, I appreciate you taking the time and joining us.
That's Tim Herbert, founder, chairman, president, CEO of Inspire Medical Systems.
It's publicly traded about four and a half billion dollar
market cap, joining us from Minneapolis.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
This is the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
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You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube
(37:46):
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Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Bloomberg business
Weekdaily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay
ahead with insight on the people, companies, and trends shaping
today's complex economy. Plus global business, finance and tech news
(00:23):
as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast with
Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I'm looking right now at shares of Coinbase. They're down
about six and a half percent. They fell as much
as eight point nine percent. This was this after The
New York Times reported that the SEC has been investigating
Coinbase whether or not it misstated its user numbers in
past disclosures. I want to bring in Stacey Marie Ishmel.
She's executive editor for Crypto and Payments. She joins us
(00:52):
here in the Bloomberg BusinessWeek Studio. What do we know
about this?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Well, I think the first thing we know is, and
this is going to come as a surprise to a
lot of few wells, that the SEC has not in
fact dropped any in all of its potential enforcement actions
against crypto companies. You know, there was a move over
the past couple of months for this very important financial
regulator to say, hey, when it comes to crypto, we're
largely not going to be looking into most things. So
(01:16):
it was interesting to see you both the New York
Times story and then the confirmation statement from Coinbase that
this was an ongoing investigation coming out of the Genstler era,
at a time when I think a lot of folks
in the industry had thought, okay, good, all clear, there's
no hangovers and we don't need to worry about anything.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Is there something different about this case than the cases
that have been dropped.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I think one of the key points is it does
relate to sort of a very bread and butter SEC issue,
which is are you being accurate and transparent in your disclosures?
And at heart of it is this idea that, according
to the SEC's allegations, or i should say, according to
the allegations represented in the New York Times story, Coinbase
(01:58):
had previously you used a verified user figure of one
hundred million, which they stopped using a couple of years ago,
and according to the SEC that that figure was initially misleading.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
So this is the second piece of news that we're
getting in regards to Coinbase just today.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
Yes today, Yes, totally. There was also a reported hack.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Tell us what's going on with that.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Yeah, this one is arguably a bigger deal in that
it's happening now and it affects very sensitive customer data.
So Coinbase put out a statement and regulatory filing earlier
today that hackers had targeted some of their overseas kind
of contractors and workers and brought offered them bribes to
(02:45):
seal sensitive customer data. Now, when we're talking sensitive customer data,
we're not just talking about email addresses and passwords. It's
like photographs of your government ID, you know, things people
would have had to submit to verify their identities. In
some cases it was you know, physical addresses, mailing addresses,
you know, so you can imagine with those government nineties.
It's also things like date of birth. There might be
(03:06):
other forms of contact information. So that is, you know,
in a moment in which crypto companies are have been
on a kind of a charm offensive since the since
President Trump was inaugurated, to say, you know, hey, crypto
is safe, it's reliable. It's the future of finance. To
have something that comes in and sort of reminds people
that crypto companies are high value targets for hackers is
(03:28):
the timing is a little bit challenging for them.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Well, speaking of timing, I mean Coinbase probably wanted us
talking about their inclusion in the S and P five
hundred this week, which was remarkable given the fact that
we saw the stock move higher by twenty four percent
YEP on Tuesday as a result of the news that
it would be included in the S and P five
under replacing Discovery replacing the.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Stock companies, which you know, I think is kind of
exactly what we're talking about here. And if you think
of Discover Financial as like the bastion of what some
people in cryptoil liked to call old finance or traditional finance,
and then this crypto exchange coming in and being like
or the future of finance, and then you know, the
news cycle is like time out some reminders about the
risks embedded in innovation.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Does it I don't want to ask you if it
taints the moment at all, But for me, the news
earlier this week about its inclusion in the S and
P five hundred, it felt really symbolic as a recognition
that this asset class was being recognized by as a
blue chip essentially.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Yeah, and I think one of you know, having been
somebody paying close attention to this for a minute, one
of the things that really struck me is that feels
like it happens all the time. Like you know, Emily,
you remember when we were doing stories about the Super
Bowl of Crypto, when you had FTX and others being like,
(04:48):
come join, do these amazing things. And then what happens
to FDx very shortly after it filed for bankruptcy sand
bankqueint Freed was in handcuffs being accused of massive fraud.
And so like crypto goes through, much like crypto prices themselves,
these moments in which that long awaited day for many
executives is institutional acceptance, retail acceptance, and tim to your point,
(05:10):
this idea of we are a legitimate asset class, we
are a contender, you should take us seriously, and then
something happens in the market where they're like, or here
are some bad things like can happened instead.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
But it's interesting because now that if they want to
be treated like a you know, a public company in
the s and P. Five hundred, they're going to be
up to the scrutiny of just like any other public company.
So I thought it was a very interesting point that
you made in the beginning that like this SEC probe,
it's not unique to crypto.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Companies, certainly not. And you know it's it's the we're
in an interesting period in which crypto companies, when they're
being scrutinized, it's not because of the assets underlying them, right,
It's more like you are doing big company things. This
is the big company behavior we expect.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Stacey Mrie Stacey re Ishmael, Executive editor for cript Do
and Payments at Bloomberg News. You can check out the
entire teams reporting on the Bloomberg terminal and of course
at Bloomberg dot com.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast. Catch
us live weekday afternoons from two to five eas during
listen on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app,
or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Let's bring in Dana Telsey. She's found her CEO and
Chief Research Officer of Telsey Advisory Group for Specialty all
Things retail. Dana, I want to start with Walmart, even
though this is not a company that you particularly follow.
One of your colleagues does that, but the company did
say that it is going to pass on costs to consumers,
(06:43):
not yet but soon. We saw shares fall. How do
you take the results that we got from the company
today in the context of what we know about tariffs
and also the way that you've been talking about potentially
empty shelves in the next couple of weeks.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
A couple things, and thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 6 (06:59):
First of all, if a like Walmart, with the skies
and scale of Walmart is going to raise prices because
of the external environment out there, what does it say
for all the others? So everyone, given the headwinds of
carries and costs that are out there, price increases are coming. However,
it may be selective. It's not going to be across
the board. It'll be called surgical, whatever word you want
(07:22):
to use, it'll be surgical and what it is. But
I've even heard we have this price tracker where we've
been tracking eighty items and it comes out every Tuesday,
same eighty items. And we have seen of the eighty
items we track, around twenty percent of them have a price,
have had a price increase each week, and it changes.
Sometimes there may be a promotion, sometimes there's an event,
but just on a tracker basis, price increases are coming.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
There's a reason.
Speaker 6 (07:46):
Why, in my mind, there has been some pull forward
to sales the tracker.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
This is fascinating to me that you have this tracker.
Is is there rhyme or reason too the types of
products that are being that are increasing in price.
Speaker 6 (08:00):
Well, we track the same items every week, and it
could their legacy items, whether it's a pair of Levi's
or it's a Barbie doll, whatever.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
It may be.
Speaker 6 (08:09):
There isn't a rhyme or reason. But what's happening is
that we expect when we heard about these tariffs, we
need a way to be able to track it. And
so this way, look what Walmart just said, prices increases
are coming. Let's see what this tracker shows in the
next four weeks in terms of pricing. So it's very interesting.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Michael McKee had mentioned, you know, the difference that we're
seeing in the soft data and the hard data that
consumers are saying that they're really pessimistic, but we're not
necessarily seeing that yet in hard data or earnings reports.
Are you do you agree with that thesis or are
you seeing pockets in some of these earnings reports that
consumers are feeling the pain.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
A little bit of each.
Speaker 6 (08:49):
When you think about where there's been a slow down,
luxury brands has been a slow down. You take a
look at the high end. LVMH reported a negative three
percent same store sales decline. That's typically weaker for an LVMH.
You're seeing other companies that are brand leaders at not
the luxury price points, but where there's brand leaders, where
there's innovation. Look at today's results that came out of Birkenstock.
(09:13):
You had a high teen sales increase, you increase the
guidance for the year on sales the high end of
the previous range seventeen percent plus, and you increase your ajusity.
But da, what do they have? They have newness and
innovation at the same time. I met with Tapestry on Tuesday,
I met with Levi's yesterday. Tapestry and Levi's and Birkenstock
(09:33):
heritage companies with authenticity that are reinventing their product. You
know what they're doing. They're capturing a younger consumer. And
companies like Coach, which is owned by Tapestry, a fifteen
percent increase in averaging retail selling price.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
Why it's new and different.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Emily and I are smiling right now because on our
editorial call this morning, I said, we have to ask
Dan about Birkenstock shares are up what six percent? You
were on surveillance with Tom Keen and me last week.
We asked you to name one company to watch. You
said it was Birkenstock. You called this why are you
bullish on Birkenstock?
Speaker 6 (10:04):
Because their footwear overall has wide appeal. You have the
flywheel of younger customers that are being attracted to the brand.
It's not just open toed sandals, it's closed toed shoes.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
Also, you look at the.
Speaker 6 (10:16):
Expansion opportunities they have with their own stores. They only
have around ten stores in the US. They have wholesale
accounts who have stores, but of their own. You take
a look at Asia, which is a rising market for them.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
You look at the fact that they bring in goods
they're made in Europe.
Speaker 6 (10:31):
Yes, they have terif exposure, but not the as significant
teriff exposure. And look at their adjustinity bitdam margins, I
mean you're in exos to thirty one percent. I don't
have many companies that are generating mid to high teen
sales increases with increasing EBITDA margins in an environment where
the uncertainty.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
But you're seeing a little bit in footwear.
Speaker 6 (10:52):
You look at some of the other brands, Socony thirty
percent increase in sales by Wolverine worldwide, Merrill up in
excess to thirteen percent.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
So newness drives demand.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Yeah, Maryls are having a comeback. I've seen a couple
Marrals on the streets of New York City and that
was like a shoe that.
Speaker 5 (11:07):
I want, I like to hear when I was like
a child's But.
Speaker 7 (11:10):
They're coming back, you know.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Dan, I was looking at the S and P five
hundred sectors, the group levels. What was the top performing
this year so far? What's the worst? Consumer Staples is
one of the best performing groups. Consumer discretionary is one
of the worst. How are investors supposed to invest in
the consumer space at large? How should they be thinking
about kind of the direction of travel when.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
You those when you think about exactly the difference with
staples and discretionary staples as essentials, it's what you need,
not what you want.
Speaker 5 (11:41):
And when you think about this environment where we don't.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
Know what the price increases is going to be We've
all seen the backward looking data of consumer confidence, and
so they're being careful. And so with staples, that's careful.
With discretionary, it feels you have spending power. There's always
the old adage that goes when the stock market it
goes up, people feel great and spending can happen when
the stock market comes down. You know, mind the hatchets,
(12:07):
you know, be careful. And so look what we've had
over the past two months. That's what you've had. Companies
in the consumer area are reporting first quarter earnings. Now
when you look at Walmart and what's to come, if
they're saying prices are going up, that's going to be
the mantra going forward.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
We got to get you to weigh in on Dick's
buying foot Locker. Dick shares down about sixteen percent right now,
Footlocker hire by eighty five percent, but that's still you know,
going back to like just a few months ago. I
think those are like December levels that we're saying, what
does it say to you? I mean, this is the
end of an era for foot Locker. This is a
company that's been a public company since nineteen eighty What
does this m and A mean to you.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
So overall on the M and A, where's the scale
and where's the synergies? Foot Locker on its own is
taking a long time to undergo this transformation, even under
a well recognized, well respected.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
CEO, Mary Dillon.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
She came from Malta.
Speaker 6 (12:59):
Right, great things at Alta ed Stack. Basically you know
Legacy Dix, his father founded it, Lauren Hobart. They basically
reinvented what Dix was with Dick's House of Sport. You
talk to every real estate landlord. What do they all
want Dick's House of Sport?
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Why?
Speaker 6 (13:15):
Because it brings traffic. What's the difference between Dix and Footlocker.
The customer base of Footlocker the eighteen to twenty five
year old guy. The customer base at Dix could be
more families. What do you get with both of it?
And granted the stock is down because the certainty of
the execution at Dix's, Dix alone was there and you
(13:36):
could basically see the path of growth with House the Sport.
Putting it together, there's work to be done, transformation to
be done with foot Locker gives them more buying power.
Let's see what Dix does because what ed Stack says
is he's got the vision. He had the vision before
with House of Sport. Let's see what he can do
with foot locker.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Just thirty seconds. Sounds like you're optimistic. This is a
good deal.
Speaker 6 (13:57):
I think it's the valuation basically at six times and
seventeen times, PE's not bad from that spectrum. What is
it time length? And can you keep the focus on
Dick's and Dick's House a Sport while you're integrating full
lockers the question go forward?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
All right, Dana, appreciate you joining us from talk to retail.
Not a better voice out there, Dana Telsey, founder, CEO,
chief Research Officer of Telsey Advisory Group, joining us here
in the Bloomberg a BusinessWeek Studio.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live
each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Applecarflay, and
Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also
listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,
Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
All right, well, Cutter's offering of a luxury Boeing seven
forty seven. President Donald Trump has set off alarm bells
within the US intelligence and diplomatic community, where gifts from
foreign powers have long been viewed with suspicion. Jamie terrib
writes the story today. She's Bloomberg News national security reporter,
and she joins us on Zoom from Washington, DC to
(15:07):
discuss give us the latest on what is going on
right now. Trump is potentially getting a plane.
Speaker 8 (15:15):
He has been offered a reportedly four hundred million dollar
luxury jumbo jet by the Qatari government for his use,
because he has been quite vocal about his frustration with
Boeing for the delays in the delivery of the Air
Force one jets that he has asked for during his
(15:37):
first administration. The current Air Force one planes that he
uses are decades old, and they certainly don't compare when
you stand them up against, you know, the sort of
the luxury furnishings, French interior designed comfort that a Katari
royal family would enjoy in the air. But of the
(16:01):
question of the gift, the question of the plane itself
being used by the President of the United States has
raised all kinds of concerns, whether they're legal or ethical.
Speaker 7 (16:12):
But I've been.
Speaker 8 (16:13):
Focusing a lot more on the security concerns that are
inherent with accepting any kind of gift, let alone a plane.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Let's talk about those security concerns. I can't stop laughing
when you quoted Thad Troy, a former station chief with
the CIA, who said, if we had built the plane
knowing it was going to a foreign government, we would
probably have bugged it. Like that's just the way it
works when it comes to one country in another country,
when it comes to national intelligence, when it comes to
(16:42):
the CIA, what did you learn in your reporting about
this being a national security challenge for the US.
Speaker 8 (16:51):
There wasn't a single person, whether they were a former
three letter agency, intelligence, foreign service, international intelligence officers that
I spoke to who said for sure that plane would
be bogged in some fashion, whether it was by special
interests from the host family or from you know, self
(17:13):
interest within.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
That country, or allies or friends.
Speaker 8 (17:16):
Or adversaries hacking into surveillance systems. It's still it's it's
very porous before it gets the word that they used
a lot to me was hardened, and it gets hardened
when it becomes a DoD approved aircraft. And you know,
I didn't even know a lot of these things when
I was working on this and talking to all these people.
(17:39):
But the airplane itself needs to be hardened to withstand
an explosion, It needs to be able to continue, it
needs to be able to fuel air to air, It
has a surgical center. It's basically a flying White House,
complete with a situation room.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
So the first.
Speaker 8 (17:58):
The idea of having something like that at being given
to the US by a foreign government and not doing
all kinds of security sweeps to establish that it's clean
and it's fine, and then going in and fortifying it,
weaponizing it and getting it ready for the president, it's
(18:20):
it just seems I was told it would take months,
if not years to accomplish everything to everyone's satisfaction. So
I don't know if those security concerns will make a
difference or not, but that was definitely something that the
people that I speak to that was immediately where their
minds went.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
So in terms of the security concerns, and we talk
about potentially bugging spy, where are there any other concerns
like tech like tech related security concerns that come about
with a foreign party giving the US a plane.
Speaker 8 (18:59):
The technical concerns that I I mean, there were people
who were talking to me who said they didn't want
to say what they were thinking because they didn't want
to give any one idea. Well, you know, I mean
installing a kill switch, you know, playing with the mechanism.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
That is some seriously scary stuff. I thought you were
going to be talking about, like, you know, a microphone
hidden behind the wall of the plane or something. I mean,
that is some seriously scary stuff.
Speaker 8 (19:27):
I spoke to someone who was living across the road
from the US embassy in Moscow during the Cold War,
and he said that the listening devices were inside the concrete,
in the bricks. So the idea of wiring and behind
the molding and all these beautiful furnishings is not out
of the.
Speaker 7 (19:46):
Realm of possibility.
Speaker 8 (19:47):
So you know, I mean, you just have to have
an imagination and you can imagine how creative you can
be with what you install. And where there could be
cameras inside, there could be a loaf case tracker that
will tell you exactly where the president is at any time.
So these are all things that not only like in
danger he's saved in security, but also could give anyone
(20:11):
intelligence on the sort of communications and conversations that he
might be having with people. On the plane with him
or with people you know elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
This is remarkable. Well yeah, yeah, you actually really have.
But what you also point out in your piece the
criticism that the president has gotten from people who've been
allied with him, including Ben Shapiro, Laura Lumer, and others.
But he's kind of holding firm, at least with his
public comments that this is the type of gift he
(20:42):
would accept.
Speaker 8 (20:44):
Well, it's become a poison chalice in a way, because
you know, it is it is a tremendous honor that
he has been paid by this Arab.
Speaker 7 (20:54):
Country to accept this gift.
Speaker 8 (20:58):
And you know the Arabs. I'm Lebanine, so I think
I know something about this, but they're big gift gippers
and there the hospitality is really embedded in the culture.
So this for them is a really it's it's it's
a huge gesture. But it also, you know, it runs
completely counter to what what what a lot of Trump
(21:18):
supporters stand by, not just the sort of the ethical
concerns and the idea of what's the quick pro quo here,
But you know, katar is, it's a complicated. Uh, it
has complicated relationships with countries that may not have relationships
with the US that have strained relationships with the US.
(21:38):
And it also it has been a very active participant
in the Ganza talks because Hamas for the longest time
has a political office in Doha, so you know, it's
there's there's a lot there and so you know, I
was talking to one person about the capabilities of the
(21:58):
Qatari Intelligent and Service and he said to me, well,
we train them, so you know, I mean, if they're good,
it's you know, a lot that has to do with
the fact that they have the strategic security partnership with
the US. The US has a military based in cutter
So it's very, very, very complicated, and I think it
just should be treated with a lot of caution and wariness.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
And you know what we used to hear like trust
but verify.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Right, I mean, this story you've given us a lot
to think about. Jamie, appreciate you joining us. Jamie Terraby,
she covers national security. She's out of our Washington, DC bureau,
but she spent time in Baghdad. She was the bureau
chief for NPR News close to twenty years ago. She
reported on the unraveling of Iraqi society. She was with
(22:47):
Al Jazeera America. She was with CNN. She's been doing
this for a long time. Check out her stories on
the Bloomberg Terminal and of course at Bloomberg dot Com
as well. You're listening to and watching Bloomberg BusinessWeek Daily.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast. Catch
us live weekday afternoons from two to five eastering. Listen
on Apple Karplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app,
or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
As we mentioned, companies just day after day in the
most recent earnings period have been pulling their guidance. They've
been lowering their expectations for earnings per share. One company
last week though, doing the exact opposite of that, Inspire
Medical Systems, reported and they actually kept their guidance for revenue.
They raise their EPs guidance. We've got Tim Herbert with
(23:37):
us right now. He's founder, chairman, and president of Inspire
Medical Systems. It's a medtech company. It specializes in devices
for sleep apnea. Tim joins us from Minneapolis. Tim, what's
working for you? Why in the face of so much
uncertainty concerns about trade And we'll talk about that in
just a second, why are you actually increasing your guidance freeps, Well, thank.
Speaker 7 (23:58):
You so much for having us today.
Speaker 9 (24:00):
I think if we stay focused on the patient, we
stay focused on the outcomes that our therapy can deliver,
it to help people with obstructive sleep at me and
with that, we know that demand for a therapy is
quite high and we can.
Speaker 7 (24:13):
Show it continued growth.
Speaker 9 (24:15):
As long as we continue to add our innovation and
continue to focus on the patient, we can see.
Speaker 7 (24:21):
Sustained growth going forward.
Speaker 9 (24:23):
And now that we're a profitable company, we can increase
our guide on our earnings per share as well. So
the futures in front of us, we really just stay
we made focus and we can continue to see growth
moving forward.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Tim, you said in your earnings that most of your
products are currently sourced and assembled primarily in the US,
and I'm wondering to what extent that has helped the
success of the company right now.
Speaker 7 (24:50):
Well, I think that that's certainly true.
Speaker 9 (24:52):
I think that we want to make sure that we
provide the best possible products for our patients, and being
an implant product is the highest level of quality that
the products have, and so we're able to really make
sure that we source our products, make sure that we
assemble now in the United States, we can really control
(25:13):
the quality of that and we can really stand behind
the products as we move forward.
Speaker 7 (25:18):
So we watch the turiffs. Of course, we watched the
trade discussions going on, but.
Speaker 9 (25:24):
Where we are right now that that's rather dimendmus to
our business today.
Speaker 7 (25:29):
And again we can remain focused on the patient.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
You got to explain to us how this product actually
works because you have the first and only FDA approved
implant to treat this type of sleep apnea. I think
a lot of people here sleep apnea, They think of masks.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
What's an implant?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Where does it go?
Speaker 9 (25:46):
Well, let's start with what is obstructed sleep AVENE and
is when you're sleeping, your airway actually restricts airflow. Therefore
you're not getting proper oxygen into your lungs and transition
to the bloods and so you have a low ox
gin level and your blood during sleep and you're not.
Speaker 7 (26:02):
Getting RESTful sleep during the night.
Speaker 9 (26:04):
And I think most people know somebody who may wear
or been given a mask that they put on their
on their face at night. It's called the sea papera
continuous positive airway pressure, and that the method is to
blow pressure that continuously holds your airway open while you sleep,
preventing obstructive sleep ABNA. But of course, as you can
(26:26):
imagine by having an apparatus on your face and that
constant pressure, there's a percent of patients, up to fifty
percent of the patients just cannot tolerate that therapy. And
it's necessary to treat obstructive sleep an because the risks
of stroke or heart failure, high blood pressure, even diabetes,
and it's been shown to be causal for early mortality.
(26:48):
It's important that patients receive proper treatment. Knowing that patients
with seat PAPERA unable to tolerate that therapy. What we
had inspired it is we created an implantable product that
we're inside your body and we provide mild stimulation to
the hypogloss of nerve, a nerve just underneath your chain,
and so when you breathe in, we stimulate the tongue
(27:10):
and hold the tongue open while you.
Speaker 7 (27:12):
Breed, preventing the sleep at me events.
Speaker 9 (27:15):
Over the years, we were improved in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 7 (27:19):
By the FDA.
Speaker 9 (27:19):
We're the only product approved in the United States and
today we have treated over one hundred thousand patients with
Inspire therapy. We're proud to say that a patient in
the United States receives Inspire every fifteen minutes. And just
this week we announced the fifth generation of Inspire.
Speaker 7 (27:37):
This is the Inspire five, the fifth generation.
Speaker 9 (27:40):
You can see, have a small device that works inside
your body. And now we're working with well over thousand
clinics and hospitals in the United States to get them
under contracts so they can offer the fifth generation product
to their patients.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
I'm curious, if it's so effective, if patients are saying
that they would r use this than the mask, why
isn't everyone in the industry going to this implant model
over the seapop mask.
Speaker 9 (28:07):
Well, seapap has been around for quite some period of
time and it's very prevalent therapy.
Speaker 7 (28:12):
But you're right, with the number of patients out there,
we know we're very.
Speaker 9 (28:16):
Lightly penetrated in the target market of the patients that
we wish to serve, So we're continuing to grow. Since
we went public in twenty eighteen, we shown a fifty
eight percent care in our revenue, so it's been a
very steady growth and adoption and a number of patients
that we can treat and as we talk about in
twenty twenty four as our first year of profitability, so we.
Speaker 7 (28:37):
Can continue to grow the adoption of the therapy.
Speaker 9 (28:40):
We really again focus on the patients and having very
high level of therapy outcomes, and that's what that's going
to really be the impetus for further growth in the future,
and we will see additional companies developing competing therapies because
I think the therapy adoption is becoming quite well aware
(29:01):
and people are really adopting to it.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Tim, You've been in the business for a long time.
Even before this in two thousand and seven, you spent
over a decade ad Medtronic and this is where Inspire
spun out of. You've spent a lot of time working
with the FDA. The FDA right now under AHHS Secretary
RFK Junior looks a lot different than the FDA under
previous administrations. What have you noticed as differences that your
(29:25):
team has experienced or encountered with this FDA versus other FDAs.
Speaker 9 (29:30):
Yeah, I think what's most important is making sure you
set a good plan to execute and demonstrate safety and
efficacy or products. Make sure that you work in concert
with your partners at the FDA, so they understand your strategy,
they understand the trials that you're embarking on, and then
be able to be transparent and show them the data
(29:53):
that can prove that your therapy is efficacious as well
as your ability to manufacture, produce implicate.
Speaker 7 (30:00):
Those same results as you move forward into the market.
And with that, that's the one common thread with.
Speaker 9 (30:06):
FDA that remains where it needs to be that the
FDA knows what their jobs are. Yes, there's stress points
with the FDA, especially with the concerns over their budgets
and do they have to cut back here or cut
back where, But I think the FDA really understands what's
important and to be able to really be able to
(30:26):
evaluate products.
Speaker 7 (30:28):
And so our.
Speaker 9 (30:28):
Team has a good relationship with the FDA because they
are transparent. We're provide all the necessary data to them
in a timely manner. They understand the items for which
we will be submitting to them, so the FDA can
plan their resources appropriately as well. So, yes, I understand
the FDA is understrained, but they're also working really hard
(30:49):
to continue to deliver the proper reviews necessary for these
medical devices.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
So you're still confident in the FDA despite the changes
that we've seen at HHS.
Speaker 9 (30:58):
Already their job, they know how to review product, They
know how to ask the necessary questions to get the
proper products out in the market. They are under stress,
as we talked about, with concerns over the budget. How
can we control the budget a little bit more yet
still be able to be as.
Speaker 7 (31:16):
Effective in getting the reviews out there.
Speaker 9 (31:19):
So, at least in our part of the world and
the medical device side, I think the FDA knows their
role and they're still able to perform those proper reviews.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
Tim, what about insurance, do you think that the insurance
companies are a constraint on more widespread adoption of the implant?
Speaker 7 (31:37):
Well, I think again with the insurance companies, they also.
Speaker 9 (31:40):
Take sucuriny, just like the FDA, to make sure that
the products that they cover do have the proper safety
and effectiveness and to ensure that their customers the patient
have the benefits expected from the products if the insurance
companies are being asked to pay for it.
Speaker 7 (31:57):
So again, we are very transparent.
Speaker 9 (31:59):
We make sure that we continually monitor our progress, continue
to publish on the safety and effectiveness and the new
generation of products like to Inspire five device, and so
we can give that information also to the insurance companies
and be transparent so they really understand that they know
if they're going to cover an Inspire case, that they
know the patient can expect a high patient outcome and
(32:22):
a benefit with the therapy.
Speaker 7 (32:24):
So again they're doing their jobs too. They're under a lot.
Speaker 9 (32:27):
Of strainers as we've as you just talked about the
prior segment, and it's really hard for them to keep
focused on covering their proper patients and making sure Companies
like ours are staying on our toes to make sure
that we are delivering the highest level quality to get
the best patient outcomes.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
We're speaking with Tim Herbert, founder, chairman and president and
CEO of Inspire Medical Systems. Tim, we wanted to speak
to you today also about health and the association with
sleep apnea and health. So curious now how people with
the age of Apple watches or rings other devices that
help measure sleep, if that tells them and those devices
(33:05):
tell them that they may have sleep apnea and then
they don't have to go spend the night in some
sort of sleep study sleep lab.
Speaker 9 (33:11):
Right, it's so important that we talk about the three
pillars of life.
Speaker 7 (33:15):
Or diet, exercise, and a good night's sleep.
Speaker 9 (33:17):
And so now with the technology so available, people have
just provided information on their own health and the number
of steps they took, their caloric intake, and also how
well did they sleep. And your or a ring will
give you a little bit more precise information than your
Apple watch.
Speaker 7 (33:35):
Well, your Apple watch may tell you to you know,
maybe we might want to.
Speaker 9 (33:39):
Call your doctor to have your sleep evaluated because you
may have a sleep disorder such as obstructive sleep ABNA.
Speaker 7 (33:46):
Sleep physicians today have many, many more tools available to
help assess sleep BABNA. In the old days, as you
refer to.
Speaker 9 (33:54):
You'd be brought to a hospital bed and put wires
all over your body and they tell you and I'll
go to sleep so we can evaluate you.
Speaker 7 (34:02):
It's just not a comfortable environment to get a really
accurate measurement of the quality of your sleep. So today
there's many home sleep tests.
Speaker 9 (34:09):
It's just a simple pass out symmetry that will go
on your fingertip to measure how well you're sleeping and
if you're having obstructive events.
Speaker 7 (34:17):
And then we can use things like the rings and.
Speaker 9 (34:21):
The watches, and there's even sensors that come in some
mattresses that will tell you how good your sleep is
and are you having obstructive events to be able to
monitor successive therapy such as Inspire, and so I think
the advent of technology for sleep is just beginning. It's
really going to grow, and we like to leverage that
(34:42):
technology to help monitor just how successful Inspire is with
our patients. Again focusing on patient outcomes, knowing that we
want sustained benefit because with sustained benefit of treating obstructed
sleep ABTY, it can have a reduction in some of
those former abilities, and that's what's a really important. So
if a patient's gunning as a therapy, they need to
(35:03):
show their adherent to that therapy and they know the
need to show that that therapy is effective. That's with
these tools and these watches in these race that's what
it's bringing to the patients, and the patients want to
be a part of their own solution, so they are
able to monitor how well they're sleeping and how well
their bed partner is sleeping as well. And that's the
(35:25):
greatest source of identifying sleep disorders is the bad partner
because they're right there, they see the patient they're snoring
or they stop breathing, having an obstruct obstructed sleep at
any event. So it's fun to watch it technology evolve
and we want to make sure that we remain.
Speaker 7 (35:41):
A part of that.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Americans seem to be better at monitoring the sleep. The
sleep tech is getting better. Just last question, Tim, do
you think Americans are sleeping better? Are we getting better
at sleep or are we getting worse. There's a ton
more distractions these days.
Speaker 9 (35:57):
There are, but people are becoming so much more aware
of it and aware of how important it is to
get a good night's sleep, and if you have sleep disorders,
to make sure that you get proper treatment and proper
care to monitor or receive and monitor how well that
treatment is working for you.
Speaker 7 (36:12):
So, yes, as we're aging the muscles.
Speaker 9 (36:15):
Relax a little bit more, you tend to have a
little bit more storing and a little bit more obstructive
sleep abnea.
Speaker 7 (36:21):
So it's important that we monitor our sleep.
Speaker 9 (36:23):
It's also very important to make sure we maintain a
good sleep hygiene, that you have consistency and when you
go to bed and don't have the distractions in the
room and get a RESTful night's sleep, but measure how
well you sleep because the tools are available. And more importantly,
if your bed partner is not having a good night
sleep or consistently snoring or having that breakage in breathing patterns, then.
Speaker 7 (36:47):
They be seen by their family practice doctor.
Speaker 9 (36:50):
That by being referred to a sleep physician, being evaluated
because the cause of effects of untreated, monitored to severe
sleep avenia is really detrimental. Fact again highlighted earlier on,
there are risks of comorbidity are even quite severe. So yes,
I think America is sleeping better and will continue to
get better as technology advances and provides information to guide
(37:13):
that process.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Tim, I appreciate you taking the time and joining us.
That's Tim Herbert, founder, chairman, president, CEO of Inspire Medical Systems.
It's publicly traded about four and a half billion dollar
market cap, joining us from Minneapolis.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
This is the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
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