September 27, 2024 • 28 mins
Watch Carol and Tim LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF.
Tara Nathan, EVP and Founder of Mastercard’s Community Pass, discusses transforming delivery of social services in remote communities in Africa and South Asia. Michael E. Mann, Professor at the University of Pennsylvania, talks about his book Our Fragile Moment: How Lessons from Earth's Past Can Help Us Survive the Climate Crisis. Dr. Amesh Adalja, Senior Scholar at the Center for Health Security at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, shares his thoughts the Covid XEC strain.
Hosts: Carol Massar and Stephen Carroll. Producer: Paul Brennan.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Bloomberg Business
Week inside from the reporters and editors who bring you
America's most trusted business magazine plus global business, finance and
tech news as it happens. Bloomberg Business Week with Caro
(00:21):
Messer and Tim Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
To Bloomberg Business Week here on Bloomberg Radio. We are
getting to some of the big conversations that we are
having at the You and General Assembly and Climate Week
this week as well. That'll be corporate names keen to
show off their commitment to sustainability, to development issues. But
how effective are these initiatives? How committed are these companies
these projects as well? These are some of the things
we want to get into with Tara Nathan, who's joining
(00:50):
as founder and executive vice president of the MasterCard Community Pass,
a digital platform that aims to boost access to payments
for remote communities. Tar are great to have you with now.
During last year's Climate Week, he spoke to us here
in the program about MasterCards role in delivering services in
Africa and in South Asia through the Community Past program.
Can you talk us a bit through what's happened over
(01:11):
the past year for you, what's changed? How have you
evolved and moved on?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Sure, thank you for having me. It's exciting to be here.
What's evolved?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
You know?
Speaker 4 (01:20):
I think with.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Community Pass quite frankly, I think we talked about what
it does, right.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
Community Pass is all about.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
It's a digital infrastructure that tries to digitize access for
smallholder farmers, the poorest, most rural inhabitants living in remote
villages in Africa and India. It gives them access to
things like marketplaces to buy quality inputs, to buy quality fertilizers,
to be able to sell their produce for fair market
(01:49):
rates and to earn their fair share. And over the
past since last year, i'd say we've scaled to six
million users and so that's really exciting. We're live in
six markets around the globe, so I think we're not
just building solutions now, we're really delivering them and delivering
value and impact for the people who use our solutions.
Speaker 5 (02:12):
Tara tell us about that impact, like, what is it
that you guys see on a daily, weekly, monthly basis
as this program this continues its build out.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Yeah, the impact is the is the really cool story, right,
So I'll take you back a little bit. When you
talk about a farmer, it's something that we living in
New York City may not even understand. When you're talking
about a small holder farmer who earns maybe two to
five dollars a day. One of their key challenges is
just getting at They're a small business owner, right, that's
(02:42):
really what they are. But their input is a seed.
That seed might cost them fifty bucks, okay to plant.
And what we find is that a lot of these
farmers can't access authentic seeds, so they're getting artificial, fake seeds,
so they plant them. Six months later they find out
there's no crop. Right, Imagine what that does to them.
So in markets we've actually planted, connected them to authentic,
(03:04):
certified seed providers, and we've seen their yields go up
by thirty fifty percent thirty to fifty percent. Now, add
on top of that, we've connected them to a multiplicity
of buyers opposed to what they as opposed to what
they may have previously had, which is, you know, they
would be stuck by a middleman or a trader who
came to their farm gate and they were price takers. Now,
(03:25):
because we've connected them to a multiple of buyers now
that increased off take commands a higher price of twenty
to thirty percent. So those are the types of impacts
that we're seeing on the ground.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Factoring the climate resilience element to this as well, because
this is you know, handing that sort of power to
growers for example, helps you know when they are suffering
from changing climate, changing temperatures, perhaps the changing the crops
that they're being able to grow as well. I mean
factor in how how those goals are feeding into what
you're doing with those communities.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Yeah, I mean, it's all about productivity, right.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
I think one of the biggest drivers obviously of climate
change is I mean is agriculture. So that's really what
we're helping to make more efficacious. If you plant the
right seat and the right environment, you know, the off
take improves, and that sort of has a big driver
on sort of climate. I think the other thing that
(04:22):
I'm really interested in is the connection between the small
holder farmer and the carbon market. So we're starting to
see a lot of really cool technologies come out where
they can actually start to measure soil health and how
can we then drive that value as an incremental income
source down to the small holder farmer, and how can
that now become an income generator for that poor farmer
(04:43):
who's earning the two dollars a day.
Speaker 5 (04:48):
Tell me, you know, I am curious too about what's
the endgame long game from MasterCard in doing this. It
certainly gives We often talk about the lack of financial
identity that so many individuals have in the emerging market,
but master Card getting involved it obviously gets these people
(05:09):
into the financial system, right, But I'm curious what the
long game is for you guys to have this involvement
in connecting these people.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Yeah. Look, MasterCard, we've had a long commitment to doing
well by doing good, so that's in our fundamental DNA.
We've made a commitment to connect a billion people to
the formal digital economy. So I could tell you that
in the first instance, this is absolutely part of that
strategy to say we want to be making the world
(05:39):
a better place. But when you really look at our
long term strategy, these are markets of the future that
we want to operate in, and this kind of digital
technology makes us relevant to a majority of the population.
If you look across the continent of Africa, right north
of fifty percent of the population is involved in agriculture,
(06:00):
somewhere between thirty to forty percent depending on the country
of their GDP comes from agriculture. When you look at
population growth, right, the majority of population growth and of
the new consumers in the next thirty years will happen
in Africa and in these developing economies. So this just
makes smart business sense.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
For us as well.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Tara, you've been here, you know, at Climate Week talking
about how that you know these issues are always importance
to companies as well. What's your reading on where other
companies in your space, the broader industry is on, you know,
working towards sustainable goal, sustainable development at a time when
we've seen so much pushback on things around DSG.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Yeah, it's a great question.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
I think the real pivot that I'm hearing more and
more of I want to hear even more about it
is commercial sustainability. So when I look to the community
past business, one of the big we call ourselves we
are a social impact enterprise. So there's a dual mandate there.
It's not just social impact, but it's an enterprise and
commercial sustainability.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
And I think I've started to hear that narrative build
a lot more.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Right, So it's how do you encourage companies and how
do you encourage frankly, the development sector to be more
amenable to companies Looking at this as a commercial enterprise.
I mean, one of the things that we always talk
about here is you know who delivers the service when
the grant runs out. It's all great and fine to
be talking about these big donor commitments to things, but
(07:32):
you need a private sector entity in there with a
commercial model. You know who's delivering the service day after day.
And I think, you know, that's the shift that I'm
starting to see and I want to see more of.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
If there's one thing you could change to just improve
and help what you are doing, what would it be?
Speaker 4 (07:51):
I guess it would be that mindset. Right. It's well
a couple things.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
One would be that mindset of us all thinking commercially
number one and number two thinking in form in terms
of collective action. So if I think about what we're doing,
I mean we recently five months ago, we launched the
MAID Alliance, the Mobilizing Access to the Digital Economy in
Africa Alliance, And I think one of the really interesting
(08:17):
and cool things about what that is is it's about action.
So it's not a coalition that comes up and puts
up a bunch of logos and just declares a bunch
of commitments. It's really committing to collective action. And what
we've done is crowd in the actors such as the
African Development Bank, who has committed three hundred million dollars
(08:38):
to finances. We've got Equity Bank who's going to be
giving loans and bank accounts to the individuals. It's community
paths and the MasterCard technology that's going to connect all
these ecosystem partners, you know, and we've got crowding in
all these private sector actors to work in concert.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
Yeah, that makes sense, a kind of mirror some of
what we heard from the president of the African Development
Bank a little bit earlier here on Bloomberg BusinessWeek. Tara,
thank you so much. Great to check in with you again.
Tara and Nathan executive EP, founder of Mastercard's Community Past,
joining us right here from New York City.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim
Stenebek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 5 (09:16):
We're going to get into someone who has written a
book about it and kind of what we can learn
from the past to maybe move forward.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Joining us in the studio is Michael Iman, director of
the Center for Science, Sustainability and the Media at University
of Pennsylvania. And your latest book, We're talking about our
fragile moment, how lessons from Earth's past can help us
survive the climate just published in paperback. We should say
as well, you're here for Climate Week. I mean, as
a scientist, when you engage in these conversations, what's your
(09:43):
reading of where we are and how we're thinking about us?
Speaker 6 (09:46):
Yeah, thanks, thanks for the commentary and for the question.
You know, one of the things that we learn from
earth history when we look back billions of years. You know,
we've got nearly four billion in years of climate history
to look at. We ought to be able to learn
something from it. And in the end it really communicates
(10:07):
sort of the dual message that is part of my
messaging today of urgency and agency. We see examples in
the past of climate fragility. When you push the climate
system hard enough, bad things happen. You get abrupt changes,
you get mass extinctions. On the other hand, you also
see that there are moderating forces over time that have
(10:29):
actually kept Earth's temperature within a remarkably tight bounds, bounds
that are suitable for life for billions of years. So
there's both fragility and resilience, and right now we're sort
of at the edge of you know, those competing factors.
We are still within that range of resilience. But if
we continue to push the climate system harder.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
If we don't bring the carbon pretty bars, right that,
the trajectory is pretty bas Yeah.
Speaker 6 (10:57):
And there are sort of self reinforcing feeds. You get
ice sheets that begin to collapse that locks in meters
of sea level rise. So if we continue on the
path that we're on, we continue to burn fossil fuels
at historic rates, we will exceed our adaptive capacity as
a civilization.
Speaker 5 (11:14):
We get that. We've talked about that a lot. So
what's a lesson from the past that you think our
audience should say, Oh wait, okay, so this happened, we
did this. What can we learn from the past specifically?
Speaker 6 (11:25):
Yeah, so I look, for example, at some past extinction
events like the Great Dying. It's called this is an
event to doesn't sound like fun. Two hundred and fifty
million years will be an end of the end?
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (11:40):
The title the chapter is the great dying wasn't so great.
Ninety percent of all species on the planet died out
in that extinction event, and it was a climate driven
extinction event. So it sounds really bad until you look
at what played out. It is a worst case scenario
that probably doesn't apply to the current day. But if
(12:02):
you tease out what caused it, there was an increase
in carbon dioxide, and we know there was a warming
of the planet, and it turns out that the relationship
between the increase in carbon dioxide and the warming of
the planet was consistent with the climate models that we
use today to project the future. So we can use
the past to say the models have it right. They
(12:23):
appear to have it right, and again that gives us
a sense of agency because the models tell us it's
not too late to keep warming below you know, what
would be a catastrophic warming of one and a half
celsia's three degree fahrenheit warming. We can still do it,
but that window of opportunity is shrinking.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
But in the conversations you've had here this week, is
that do you feel like that's understood well enough for
that action to be taken, Because we see a lot
of plans a lot of targets, but the timelines are long.
Speaker 6 (12:52):
That's exactly right. I mean, it's the glass half empty
glass that always mandatory.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
So if they miss it, it's like oops.
Speaker 6 (12:57):
Well that's right. And so you know, obviously, you know,
just a sort of voluntary action isn't enough. We're gonna
need binding sort of requirements on businesses. We're gonna need
you know, esg has to be more than just greenwash.
There has to be real action behind it. Right now,
we see fossil fuel companies, for example, talking a lot
(13:19):
about carbon capture and sequestration. This idea that we can
just manage the problem somehow without solving it at its source,
which is our continued reliance on fossil fuels and that
sort of technology. It's not proven, it's unlikely we can
deploy it on the timeframe that would be necessary, but
it provides an excuse for businesses to continue to pollute now.
(13:40):
And so we have to recognize that there's that greenwash,
and that what we really need is a rapid transition.
We're making progress. We're gonna see carbon emissions perhaps slightly
decline in twenty twenty four. There's some preliminary numbers that
say they're actually gonna come down. So the green energy
transition is happening, and it's making a difference. It's not
happening fast enough yet.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
How much though, when you look at Earth's past and
what has happened, how much of it though, I mean,
it's because of mankind and the mess that we've done,
and now we still kind of can't seem to get
it right. How much do you blame?
Speaker 6 (14:16):
Well, you know, there's some great examples. There was what
we know the k T, the collision sixty five million
years ago of a giant asteroid, you know, that killed
off the dinosaurs, and and there's some lessons there. It
turns out, you know, what killed them off was actually
a massive cooling from all of the particulate matter that
was ejected up into the atmosphere. So it was actually
(14:37):
climate change that killed off the dinosaurs. And the difference
is there is nothing The dinosaurs didn't see it coming.
They couldn't have done anything about it. Anyways, we don't
have that excuse. This is a problem of our making,
and we still have it within our capability to solve it.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
When you look as the State of four policy makers
are thinking about this, the pushback against green policies you've
seen in some parts of the world world, and you're
thinking about an election here in November, I mean, how
worried are you that that derails at what is a
positive trajectory towards those evasions coming down?
Speaker 6 (15:10):
Well, I want mince words here. I've said on a
number of occasions that a second Trump presidency would be
the end of global climate action as we know it,
because we know historically that the United States has to
lead if we're going to see other countries come to
the table. And we saw that during the Obama years.
It was a bilateral agreement between the US and China.
Because the US was doing its part, other countries joined in.
(15:31):
We got the Paris Agreement. So we know that when
we engage on this issue, other countries come along, and
at the same time, when we disengage, it sends the
opposite message.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
Although I would argue that I think we have so
many conversations saying that when it comes to rules about
the environment, we often look to what Europe's doing. It
feels like that they have moved faster. So I do
you really think that if the US turns back the
rest of the world's going to turn back.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (15:55):
I mean, we are the world's largest legacy polluter, so
we've put more carbon pollution into you know today, it
doesn't matter.
Speaker 5 (16:01):
You're saying what everybody else does.
Speaker 6 (16:03):
Well that well, right now, we're not the biggest polluter
right now. Right now it's China and India is rapidly
rising up. So we're not the biggest plluter now. But
what matters to the climate, it turns out, is the
cumulative carbon pollution, and we've produced more of it. And
so what that means is if we don't send the
message that we're serious, it makes it easy for countries
like India. I say, look, you had, you know, two
(16:25):
hundred years of access to you know, to cheap dirty
energy to grow your economy. Why shouldn't we get the
same opportunity if you don't have your own house in order?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
What specifically, in policy terms, makes you concerned about Donald
Trump being being reelected? You know, what are the steps
that you would be concerned.
Speaker 6 (16:42):
About in a word or in a phrase. Project twenty
twenty five, so we know what his climate agenda is
going to be. It's getting rid of Noah, the National
Ocean Graphic and Atmospheric Administration, the very administration that's responsible
for monitoring hurricanes like the one that is about to
make landfall tragically on the Florida coast. And so they
want it's sort of an agenda to stop measuring the climate,
(17:05):
to stop even allowing for language about climate change in
government policy. That's, you know, we can't solve a problem
that we refuse to even recognize exists. And so it's
a stark contrast. And some people, would you know, say, well,
you know, Biden hasn't gone far enough, and we're not
completely happy with the Harris sort of climate plan. But
(17:26):
it's night and day. They will build on the progress
we've already made, whereas Trump administration already has an agenda
in hand to turn back the clock and basically go
backwards in terms of climb.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Of course, Trump has distanced himself from charge of Times
twenty five, but unconvincingly, yes he has.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
He has, and I don't know that we've gotten specifics
about what a Harris White House would mean in terms
of specific green initiatives going forward. Having said that, you know,
when you say things like Noah, and I'm just thinking
there are various global models of tracking weather around the
world and people can tap into them like that we
never could before. So there is that information out there,
(18:03):
so the global gathering of information will not start. So,
like I understand what you're saying. Having said that, just
something to think about.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
So question of data is very interesting, there isn't it,
Because that's that's something that actually can really help us
on this.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
Yeah, and Noah's responsible. That's where we get all of
this detailed information where you have scientists who study behavior
hurricanes were improving our models.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
They're global models, right, so that there is still information
that would be coming in.
Speaker 6 (18:29):
Yeah, but we're making the measurements in this sector. We're
making the institu measurements in the Atlantic. We have the
hurricane hunters who go out and look at these storms
as they're developing. We would lose all.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
That can I ask you? This is something that we
spoke to the CEO of the Global Wind Energy Council
abouts and he talked about misinformation and disinformation risks around
when turbines. How big a problem is that this is
going to relate to the data question.
Speaker 6 (18:52):
Yeah, there's a lot of misinformation. You know, polluters and
have you can't deny climate changes anymore because we can
all see it playing out right, And so that means
that there's some bad actors who have sort of moved
away from denial towards other tactics, and among those tactics
is sort of delay. Is well, we don't need to
(19:12):
you know, transition to renewable energy. We can do carbon
capture and sequestration. We can rely And by the way,
there are all these problems with wind and solar and
these are manufactured problem They're not real problems, but they
sound credible and they win over enough people that it
makes it more difficult to advance to the policies.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
Is even maybe a bigger problem. This has came up
in a discussion that we had with the head of Fordescu,
the big mining company. But this idea of you know,
money lobbying by the fossil fuel industry, and that is
still so entrenched. We still are going to need everybody
says fossil fuel for a long time. That's a big issue.
And just got about forgive us about thirty thirty five
(19:52):
minutes seconds here.
Speaker 6 (19:54):
Yeah, no, I mean what we're talking about is not
going cold Turkey and fossil fuels. We need to continue
to keep the lights turned on.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Right people.
Speaker 6 (20:02):
But we there is credible, incredible studies that demonstrate that
we can achieve the reductions we need. We can basically
get halfway there fifty percent reduction carbon emissions by twenty
thirty with existing technology by incentivizing that technology and the
incentivizing fossil fuel technology.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
I hope that's six years away.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Yeah, but look, I mean this is I think I'm
so glad that you're here with that optimistic message as well,
because I think the fear is as we get overwhelmed
by how difficult and insurmountable the problem scenes. Michaely Man,
thank you so much for joining us from the University
of Pennsylvania. Your book, Our Fragile Moment Lessons from Art's
Past can help us survive the climate.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
This is Bloomberg Business Week on this Thursday, Carol Master
along with Stephen Carroll, a co host of Bloomberg day
Break Europe. In for Tim, In for Tim. How much
time do you guys spend talking about COVID lately?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I mean, look, this is one of the things, don't
you know, don't be scared, right, this is one of
these things that it's it's we knew it was going
to be part of the avolation of the disease. It's
the waves of it, right. You notice that we're people
are missing from the office, and it happens when you
see it cycle through the office because you know, somebody
gets it and it goes around, or it's in someone's family,
and then the right for a couple of days.
Speaker 5 (21:07):
But staring masks again and.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Which I which I'm very much respect because I think
it's very respectful, but the idea that you know, this
is going to be something, and actually we're much better
prepared than we were.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
We know how to deal with this. Having since as
we get ready for a new strain, as.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
We get ready for a new strain, this is this
is the next development on this story, of course, something
that we have been told to expect as we move
on from the pandemic stage. Joining us to discuss Doctor
amash Adolgia, who is Senior scholar and infectious disease physician
at the JOHNS. Hopkins Center for Health Security as John
Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, supported by Michael R. Bloomberg,
(21:43):
the founder of Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Doctor Adolja
joins us from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Great to have you on
the program. Have I framed this correctly when we're talking
about a new strain of COVID.
Speaker 7 (21:57):
Yes, I think so. I think that we always knew
that this virus was going to continue to evolve, and
the goal was to really decouple cases from hospitalizations, from
deaths from hospitals and crisis and I think we've successfully
gotten there. And the thing is about we think of COVID.
We've got more tools for COVID than we do for
any other respiratory virus. People wish we had the tools
(22:19):
that we do for COVID for influenza, for example. So
I do think that, yes, we're going to see new variants.
There's always going to be one coming in perpetuity, but
it's less scary because we've got so much immunity in
the population and so many tools that science and medicine
have developed so great.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
That we've got tools. Having said that, is COVID in
the same category now as you know the regular flu
that we deal with every fall, do you put it
in the same category.
Speaker 7 (22:44):
It's still a little bit more severe for older people,
for high risk individuals, than influenza. And it also doesn't
have that kind of single season jump, but like you
get in respiratory virus season with flu in fall and winter,
we still get this kind of surge in the summer
and then the winter surch so it's a little bit
different than flu. It still is likely killing more people
(23:06):
than flu, but it is rapidly approaching the level of
the level of influenza, and I think we will get
there if more high risk people take advantage of new vaccines,
take advantage of drugs like pax loavid and malnipyrivir. So
I think we're getting there, but it's still if you
look at it a pound for pound basis, it's still
a little bit higher than influenza.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
What can you tell us about this new strain then,
XC it's called.
Speaker 7 (23:33):
So xCC is a variant that really came to light
in Europe. It's a combination of two different versions of
omicron variants that have been circulating, so it's what we
would call a recombinant variant, and it does seem to
be increasing in many parts of Europe. There have been
cases in the United States, but in the United States
it's less than probably one percent of infection, so it's
not officially being tracked. But you have to remember, if
(23:55):
it's not xCC, it's going to be another variant. There's
always going to be one variant coming up, variant coming down,
one with their moment in the spotlight, one that's kind
of fading off to the side, And that's always going
to be the case, and it's the case with any
other respiratory virus. It's just that the media are much
more interested in COVID variants, even when they don't really
change the equation. So, yes, xCC might become a dominant variant,
(24:16):
but does it change anything that people need to do?
Probably not. Does it have an impact on the efficacy
of the newly updated vaccine, probably yes, But is it
going to change the equation or how people live with COVID?
Speaker 5 (24:27):
No, Well, talk to us about vaccines. I did not
get the latest I mean i'd gotten four or five shots,
you know, as we were supposed to during the pandemic.
Having said that, I don't think I got the last
one and I kind of passed. I think I just
I don't know. So what's your guidance on getting vaccines?
Should we treat it like the flu? Vaccine, get it.
If you're high risk, get it, just get it. Like,
(24:49):
what's your advice here to people?
Speaker 7 (24:52):
Well, I think if you're high risk, you definitely benefit
from staying up to date with your vaccines, right, and
high risk means people that are overweight, people that OBEs,
people with diabetes, hypertension, you know, compromise, people who are pregnant.
It's a large swath of the population that probably should
be getting that vaccine. If you're a low risk person
twenty years old, no medical problems, you're probably not going
to get very much of a benefit from the vaccine.
(25:14):
You'll get some transient protection against infection, which will wear off.
And I think, you know, I've always been of the
mindset that's in the UK, that's in Europe, and even
in Canada, where there's much more target vaccination to high
risk groups. I think that's much better than a universal
recommendation because what's happening is high risk people aren't you know,
they think everybody gets this, that they're not special, when
(25:35):
they really are. The virus does treat the very special.
They're at higher risk for severe disease. And I really
think we need to get our high risk populations vaccinated,
because if we're vaccinating a bunch of healthy thirty year
olds but not seventy year olds, that's not going to
really do anything to put a dent in you know,
the tens of thousands of deaths that will occur from
COVID nineteen over this winter season.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, that's interesting to your point to me, and my
parents in Dublin got a call from their local doctor
says zign Yeah, if you know. And at topened every
year and it depends again us O us cashal. Gray
And another topic that we want to talk to you
about though, is the new flu vaccine. It's going to
be different. This is an option that might actually perhaps
encourage people that might be scared of needles to go first.
Speaker 7 (26:17):
Yes, So we've had this vaccine around since around two
thousand and three. It's called flu Miss. It's a nasal
flu vaccine, so it's needle free. It's basically a spray
you that's sprayed into your nostril. And it's now been
approved by the FDA for self administration, which is the
first vaccine that we've seen be approoved for self administration.
So this is a very innovative way to increase flu
(26:37):
vaccine rates. Hopefully people who are needlephobic, people who don't
have the time to go and find a place to
get a flu vaccination will take advantage of this. So
I think this is kind of a really important development,
hopefully one that people will take advantage of and hopefully
which will lead to a precedent for more self administered vaccine,
self administered tests, because I think that really gives people
(26:58):
a lot of autonomy, and we'll hope increase recommendation guidance,
recommendation adherence, and people will get more people will get
flu vaccinated, and this is just another way to do that.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
A couple of things my understanding is indicated for an
individuals from like maybe two to forty nine years of age.
Is that the case do you need a prescription? And
is it covered by insurance?
Speaker 7 (27:19):
So it is two to forty nine because Flu miss
that that brand of flu vaccine is only have to
approve for that group. It doesn't mean it doesn't work
in other groups. It just means that the company didn't
actually seek approval in people that were younger than two
or people that were older than forty nine. So that's
where that's where the risk restrictions are, and what the
company is going to do is have a website set up,
kind of a third party website where you kind of
(27:39):
do a questionnaire and if you meet the qualifications, they
will ship that vaccine to your home for you to
give give yourself or to give to your children. Insurance
I suspect will cover it. It may vary from plan
to plan, but I think they should take that They
should cover it. There's no reason that they wouldn't because
it's a recommended vaccine and they cover other flu vaccines.
Speaker 5 (27:59):
Great update, certainly on something that is still a part
of our world. We're talking about COVID and just flew
certainly important. Doctor AMESH. Adalja, Senior Scholar, Infectious Disease physician
at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security at the
Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. Of course, supported
by Michael R. Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg BusinessWeek,
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Bloomberg Business
Week inside from the reporters and editors who bring you
America's most trusted business magazine plus global business, finance and
tech news as it happens. Bloomberg Business Week with Caro
(00:21):
Messer and Tim Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
To Bloomberg Business Week here on Bloomberg Radio. We are
getting to some of the big conversations that we are
having at the You and General Assembly and Climate Week
this week as well. That'll be corporate names keen to
show off their commitment to sustainability, to development issues. But
how effective are these initiatives? How committed are these companies
these projects as well? These are some of the things
we want to get into with Tara Nathan, who's joining
(00:50):
as founder and executive vice president of the MasterCard Community Pass,
a digital platform that aims to boost access to payments
for remote communities. Tar are great to have you with now.
During last year's Climate Week, he spoke to us here
in the program about MasterCards role in delivering services in
Africa and in South Asia through the Community Past program.
Can you talk us a bit through what's happened over
(01:11):
the past year for you, what's changed? How have you
evolved and moved on?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Sure, thank you for having me. It's exciting to be here.
What's evolved?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
You know?
Speaker 4 (01:20):
I think with.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Community Pass quite frankly, I think we talked about what
it does, right.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
Community Pass is all about.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
It's a digital infrastructure that tries to digitize access for
smallholder farmers, the poorest, most rural inhabitants living in remote
villages in Africa and India. It gives them access to
things like marketplaces to buy quality inputs, to buy quality fertilizers,
to be able to sell their produce for fair market
(01:49):
rates and to earn their fair share. And over the
past since last year, i'd say we've scaled to six
million users and so that's really exciting. We're live in
six markets around the globe, so I think we're not
just building solutions now, we're really delivering them and delivering
value and impact for the people who use our solutions.
Speaker 5 (02:12):
Tara tell us about that impact, like, what is it
that you guys see on a daily, weekly, monthly basis
as this program this continues its build out.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Yeah, the impact is the is the really cool story, right,
So I'll take you back a little bit. When you
talk about a farmer, it's something that we living in
New York City may not even understand. When you're talking
about a small holder farmer who earns maybe two to
five dollars a day. One of their key challenges is
just getting at They're a small business owner, right, that's
(02:42):
really what they are. But their input is a seed.
That seed might cost them fifty bucks, okay to plant.
And what we find is that a lot of these
farmers can't access authentic seeds, so they're getting artificial, fake seeds,
so they plant them. Six months later they find out
there's no crop. Right, Imagine what that does to them.
So in markets we've actually planted, connected them to authentic,
(03:04):
certified seed providers, and we've seen their yields go up
by thirty fifty percent thirty to fifty percent. Now, add
on top of that, we've connected them to a multiplicity
of buyers opposed to what they as opposed to what
they may have previously had, which is, you know, they
would be stuck by a middleman or a trader who
came to their farm gate and they were price takers. Now,
(03:25):
because we've connected them to a multiple of buyers now
that increased off take commands a higher price of twenty
to thirty percent. So those are the types of impacts
that we're seeing on the ground.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Factoring the climate resilience element to this as well, because
this is you know, handing that sort of power to
growers for example, helps you know when they are suffering
from changing climate, changing temperatures, perhaps the changing the crops
that they're being able to grow as well. I mean
factor in how how those goals are feeding into what
you're doing with those communities.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Yeah, I mean, it's all about productivity, right.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
I think one of the biggest drivers obviously of climate
change is I mean is agriculture. So that's really what
we're helping to make more efficacious. If you plant the
right seat and the right environment, you know, the off
take improves, and that sort of has a big driver
on sort of climate. I think the other thing that
(04:22):
I'm really interested in is the connection between the small
holder farmer and the carbon market. So we're starting to
see a lot of really cool technologies come out where
they can actually start to measure soil health and how
can we then drive that value as an incremental income
source down to the small holder farmer, and how can
that now become an income generator for that poor farmer
(04:43):
who's earning the two dollars a day.
Speaker 5 (04:48):
Tell me, you know, I am curious too about what's
the endgame long game from MasterCard in doing this. It
certainly gives We often talk about the lack of financial
identity that so many individuals have in the emerging market,
but master Card getting involved it obviously gets these people
(05:09):
into the financial system, right, But I'm curious what the
long game is for you guys to have this involvement
in connecting these people.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Yeah. Look, MasterCard, we've had a long commitment to doing
well by doing good, so that's in our fundamental DNA.
We've made a commitment to connect a billion people to
the formal digital economy. So I could tell you that
in the first instance, this is absolutely part of that
strategy to say we want to be making the world
(05:39):
a better place. But when you really look at our
long term strategy, these are markets of the future that
we want to operate in, and this kind of digital
technology makes us relevant to a majority of the population.
If you look across the continent of Africa, right north
of fifty percent of the population is involved in agriculture,
(06:00):
somewhere between thirty to forty percent depending on the country
of their GDP comes from agriculture. When you look at
population growth, right, the majority of population growth and of
the new consumers in the next thirty years will happen
in Africa and in these developing economies. So this just
makes smart business sense.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
For us as well.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Tara, you've been here, you know, at Climate Week talking
about how that you know these issues are always importance
to companies as well. What's your reading on where other
companies in your space, the broader industry is on, you know,
working towards sustainable goal, sustainable development at a time when
we've seen so much pushback on things around DSG.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Yeah, it's a great question.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
I think the real pivot that I'm hearing more and
more of I want to hear even more about it
is commercial sustainability. So when I look to the community
past business, one of the big we call ourselves we
are a social impact enterprise. So there's a dual mandate there.
It's not just social impact, but it's an enterprise and
commercial sustainability.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
And I think I've started to hear that narrative build
a lot more.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Right, So it's how do you encourage companies and how
do you encourage frankly, the development sector to be more
amenable to companies Looking at this as a commercial enterprise.
I mean, one of the things that we always talk
about here is you know who delivers the service when
the grant runs out. It's all great and fine to
be talking about these big donor commitments to things, but
(07:32):
you need a private sector entity in there with a
commercial model. You know who's delivering the service day after day.
And I think, you know, that's the shift that I'm
starting to see and I want to see more of.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
If there's one thing you could change to just improve
and help what you are doing, what would it be?
Speaker 4 (07:51):
I guess it would be that mindset. Right. It's well
a couple things.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
One would be that mindset of us all thinking commercially
number one and number two thinking in form in terms
of collective action. So if I think about what we're doing,
I mean we recently five months ago, we launched the
MAID Alliance, the Mobilizing Access to the Digital Economy in
Africa Alliance, And I think one of the really interesting
(08:17):
and cool things about what that is is it's about action.
So it's not a coalition that comes up and puts
up a bunch of logos and just declares a bunch
of commitments. It's really committing to collective action. And what
we've done is crowd in the actors such as the
African Development Bank, who has committed three hundred million dollars
(08:38):
to finances. We've got Equity Bank who's going to be
giving loans and bank accounts to the individuals. It's community
paths and the MasterCard technology that's going to connect all
these ecosystem partners, you know, and we've got crowding in
all these private sector actors to work in concert.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
Yeah, that makes sense, a kind of mirror some of
what we heard from the president of the African Development
Bank a little bit earlier here on Bloomberg BusinessWeek. Tara,
thank you so much. Great to check in with you again.
Tara and Nathan executive EP, founder of Mastercard's Community Past,
joining us right here from New York City.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim
Stenebek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 5 (09:16):
We're going to get into someone who has written a
book about it and kind of what we can learn
from the past to maybe move forward.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Joining us in the studio is Michael Iman, director of
the Center for Science, Sustainability and the Media at University
of Pennsylvania. And your latest book, We're talking about our
fragile moment, how lessons from Earth's past can help us
survive the climate just published in paperback. We should say
as well, you're here for Climate Week. I mean, as
a scientist, when you engage in these conversations, what's your
(09:43):
reading of where we are and how we're thinking about us?
Speaker 6 (09:46):
Yeah, thanks, thanks for the commentary and for the question.
You know, one of the things that we learn from
earth history when we look back billions of years. You know,
we've got nearly four billion in years of climate history
to look at. We ought to be able to learn
something from it. And in the end it really communicates
(10:07):
sort of the dual message that is part of my
messaging today of urgency and agency. We see examples in
the past of climate fragility. When you push the climate
system hard enough, bad things happen. You get abrupt changes,
you get mass extinctions. On the other hand, you also
see that there are moderating forces over time that have
(10:29):
actually kept Earth's temperature within a remarkably tight bounds, bounds
that are suitable for life for billions of years. So
there's both fragility and resilience, and right now we're sort
of at the edge of you know, those competing factors.
We are still within that range of resilience. But if
we continue to push the climate system harder.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
If we don't bring the carbon pretty bars, right that,
the trajectory is pretty bas Yeah.
Speaker 6 (10:57):
And there are sort of self reinforcing feeds. You get
ice sheets that begin to collapse that locks in meters
of sea level rise. So if we continue on the
path that we're on, we continue to burn fossil fuels
at historic rates, we will exceed our adaptive capacity as
a civilization.
Speaker 5 (11:14):
We get that. We've talked about that a lot. So
what's a lesson from the past that you think our
audience should say, Oh wait, okay, so this happened, we
did this. What can we learn from the past specifically?
Speaker 6 (11:25):
Yeah, so I look, for example, at some past extinction
events like the Great Dying. It's called this is an
event to doesn't sound like fun. Two hundred and fifty
million years will be an end of the end?
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (11:40):
The title the chapter is the great dying wasn't so great.
Ninety percent of all species on the planet died out
in that extinction event, and it was a climate driven
extinction event. So it sounds really bad until you look
at what played out. It is a worst case scenario
that probably doesn't apply to the current day. But if
(12:02):
you tease out what caused it, there was an increase
in carbon dioxide, and we know there was a warming
of the planet, and it turns out that the relationship
between the increase in carbon dioxide and the warming of
the planet was consistent with the climate models that we
use today to project the future. So we can use
the past to say the models have it right. They
(12:23):
appear to have it right, and again that gives us
a sense of agency because the models tell us it's
not too late to keep warming below you know, what
would be a catastrophic warming of one and a half
celsia's three degree fahrenheit warming. We can still do it,
but that window of opportunity is shrinking.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
But in the conversations you've had here this week, is
that do you feel like that's understood well enough for
that action to be taken, Because we see a lot
of plans a lot of targets, but the timelines are long.
Speaker 6 (12:52):
That's exactly right. I mean, it's the glass half empty
glass that always mandatory.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
So if they miss it, it's like oops.
Speaker 6 (12:57):
Well that's right. And so you know, obviously, you know,
just a sort of voluntary action isn't enough. We're gonna
need binding sort of requirements on businesses. We're gonna need
you know, esg has to be more than just greenwash.
There has to be real action behind it. Right now,
we see fossil fuel companies, for example, talking a lot
(13:19):
about carbon capture and sequestration. This idea that we can
just manage the problem somehow without solving it at its source,
which is our continued reliance on fossil fuels and that
sort of technology. It's not proven, it's unlikely we can
deploy it on the timeframe that would be necessary, but
it provides an excuse for businesses to continue to pollute now.
(13:40):
And so we have to recognize that there's that greenwash,
and that what we really need is a rapid transition.
We're making progress. We're gonna see carbon emissions perhaps slightly
decline in twenty twenty four. There's some preliminary numbers that
say they're actually gonna come down. So the green energy
transition is happening, and it's making a difference. It's not
happening fast enough yet.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
How much though, when you look at Earth's past and
what has happened, how much of it though, I mean,
it's because of mankind and the mess that we've done,
and now we still kind of can't seem to get
it right. How much do you blame?
Speaker 6 (14:16):
Well, you know, there's some great examples. There was what
we know the k T, the collision sixty five million
years ago of a giant asteroid, you know, that killed
off the dinosaurs, and and there's some lessons there. It
turns out, you know, what killed them off was actually
a massive cooling from all of the particulate matter that
was ejected up into the atmosphere. So it was actually
(14:37):
climate change that killed off the dinosaurs. And the difference
is there is nothing The dinosaurs didn't see it coming.
They couldn't have done anything about it. Anyways, we don't
have that excuse. This is a problem of our making,
and we still have it within our capability to solve it.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
When you look as the State of four policy makers
are thinking about this, the pushback against green policies you've
seen in some parts of the world world, and you're
thinking about an election here in November, I mean, how
worried are you that that derails at what is a
positive trajectory towards those evasions coming down?
Speaker 6 (15:10):
Well, I want mince words here. I've said on a
number of occasions that a second Trump presidency would be
the end of global climate action as we know it,
because we know historically that the United States has to
lead if we're going to see other countries come to
the table. And we saw that during the Obama years.
It was a bilateral agreement between the US and China.
Because the US was doing its part, other countries joined in.
(15:31):
We got the Paris Agreement. So we know that when
we engage on this issue, other countries come along, and
at the same time, when we disengage, it sends the
opposite message.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
Although I would argue that I think we have so
many conversations saying that when it comes to rules about
the environment, we often look to what Europe's doing. It
feels like that they have moved faster. So I do
you really think that if the US turns back the
rest of the world's going to turn back.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (15:55):
I mean, we are the world's largest legacy polluter, so
we've put more carbon pollution into you know today, it
doesn't matter.
Speaker 5 (16:01):
You're saying what everybody else does.
Speaker 6 (16:03):
Well that well, right now, we're not the biggest polluter
right now. Right now it's China and India is rapidly
rising up. So we're not the biggest plluter now. But
what matters to the climate, it turns out, is the
cumulative carbon pollution, and we've produced more of it. And
so what that means is if we don't send the
message that we're serious, it makes it easy for countries
like India. I say, look, you had, you know, two
(16:25):
hundred years of access to you know, to cheap dirty
energy to grow your economy. Why shouldn't we get the
same opportunity if you don't have your own house in order?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
What specifically, in policy terms, makes you concerned about Donald
Trump being being reelected? You know, what are the steps
that you would be concerned.
Speaker 6 (16:42):
About in a word or in a phrase. Project twenty
twenty five, so we know what his climate agenda is
going to be. It's getting rid of Noah, the National
Ocean Graphic and Atmospheric Administration, the very administration that's responsible
for monitoring hurricanes like the one that is about to
make landfall tragically on the Florida coast. And so they
want it's sort of an agenda to stop measuring the climate,
(17:05):
to stop even allowing for language about climate change in
government policy. That's, you know, we can't solve a problem
that we refuse to even recognize exists. And so it's
a stark contrast. And some people, would you know, say, well,
you know, Biden hasn't gone far enough, and we're not
completely happy with the Harris sort of climate plan. But
(17:26):
it's night and day. They will build on the progress
we've already made, whereas Trump administration already has an agenda
in hand to turn back the clock and basically go
backwards in terms of climb.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Of course, Trump has distanced himself from charge of Times
twenty five, but unconvincingly, yes he has.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
He has, and I don't know that we've gotten specifics
about what a Harris White House would mean in terms
of specific green initiatives going forward. Having said that, you know,
when you say things like Noah, and I'm just thinking
there are various global models of tracking weather around the
world and people can tap into them like that we
never could before. So there is that information out there,
(18:03):
so the global gathering of information will not start. So,
like I understand what you're saying. Having said that, just
something to think about.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
So question of data is very interesting, there isn't it,
Because that's that's something that actually can really help us
on this.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
Yeah, and Noah's responsible. That's where we get all of
this detailed information where you have scientists who study behavior
hurricanes were improving our models.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
They're global models, right, so that there is still information
that would be coming in.
Speaker 6 (18:29):
Yeah, but we're making the measurements in this sector. We're
making the institu measurements in the Atlantic. We have the
hurricane hunters who go out and look at these storms
as they're developing. We would lose all.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
That can I ask you? This is something that we
spoke to the CEO of the Global Wind Energy Council
abouts and he talked about misinformation and disinformation risks around
when turbines. How big a problem is that this is
going to relate to the data question.
Speaker 6 (18:52):
Yeah, there's a lot of misinformation. You know, polluters and
have you can't deny climate changes anymore because we can
all see it playing out right, And so that means
that there's some bad actors who have sort of moved
away from denial towards other tactics, and among those tactics
is sort of delay. Is well, we don't need to
(19:12):
you know, transition to renewable energy. We can do carbon
capture and sequestration. We can rely And by the way,
there are all these problems with wind and solar and
these are manufactured problem They're not real problems, but they
sound credible and they win over enough people that it
makes it more difficult to advance to the policies.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
Is even maybe a bigger problem. This has came up
in a discussion that we had with the head of Fordescu,
the big mining company. But this idea of you know,
money lobbying by the fossil fuel industry, and that is
still so entrenched. We still are going to need everybody
says fossil fuel for a long time. That's a big issue.
And just got about forgive us about thirty thirty five
(19:52):
minutes seconds here.
Speaker 6 (19:54):
Yeah, no, I mean what we're talking about is not
going cold Turkey and fossil fuels. We need to continue
to keep the lights turned on.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Right people.
Speaker 6 (20:02):
But we there is credible, incredible studies that demonstrate that
we can achieve the reductions we need. We can basically
get halfway there fifty percent reduction carbon emissions by twenty
thirty with existing technology by incentivizing that technology and the
incentivizing fossil fuel technology.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
I hope that's six years away.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Yeah, but look, I mean this is I think I'm
so glad that you're here with that optimistic message as well,
because I think the fear is as we get overwhelmed
by how difficult and insurmountable the problem scenes. Michaely Man,
thank you so much for joining us from the University
of Pennsylvania. Your book, Our Fragile Moment Lessons from Art's
Past can help us survive the climate.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
This is Bloomberg Business Week on this Thursday, Carol Master
along with Stephen Carroll, a co host of Bloomberg day
Break Europe. In for Tim, In for Tim. How much
time do you guys spend talking about COVID lately?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I mean, look, this is one of the things, don't
you know, don't be scared, right, this is one of
these things that it's it's we knew it was going
to be part of the avolation of the disease. It's
the waves of it, right. You notice that we're people
are missing from the office, and it happens when you
see it cycle through the office because you know, somebody
gets it and it goes around, or it's in someone's family,
and then the right for a couple of days.
Speaker 5 (21:07):
But staring masks again and.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Which I which I'm very much respect because I think
it's very respectful, but the idea that you know, this
is going to be something, and actually we're much better
prepared than we were.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
We know how to deal with this. Having since as
we get ready for a new strain, as.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
We get ready for a new strain, this is this
is the next development on this story, of course, something
that we have been told to expect as we move
on from the pandemic stage. Joining us to discuss Doctor
amash Adolgia, who is Senior scholar and infectious disease physician
at the JOHNS. Hopkins Center for Health Security as John
Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, supported by Michael R. Bloomberg,
(21:43):
the founder of Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Doctor Adolja
joins us from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Great to have you on
the program. Have I framed this correctly when we're talking
about a new strain of COVID.
Speaker 7 (21:57):
Yes, I think so. I think that we always knew
that this virus was going to continue to evolve, and
the goal was to really decouple cases from hospitalizations, from
deaths from hospitals and crisis and I think we've successfully
gotten there. And the thing is about we think of COVID.
We've got more tools for COVID than we do for
any other respiratory virus. People wish we had the tools
(22:19):
that we do for COVID for influenza, for example. So
I do think that, yes, we're going to see new variants.
There's always going to be one coming in perpetuity, but
it's less scary because we've got so much immunity in
the population and so many tools that science and medicine
have developed so great.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
That we've got tools. Having said that, is COVID in
the same category now as you know the regular flu
that we deal with every fall, do you put it
in the same category.
Speaker 7 (22:44):
It's still a little bit more severe for older people,
for high risk individuals, than influenza. And it also doesn't
have that kind of single season jump, but like you
get in respiratory virus season with flu in fall and winter,
we still get this kind of surge in the summer
and then the winter surch so it's a little bit
different than flu. It still is likely killing more people
(23:06):
than flu, but it is rapidly approaching the level of
the level of influenza, and I think we will get
there if more high risk people take advantage of new vaccines,
take advantage of drugs like pax loavid and malnipyrivir. So
I think we're getting there, but it's still if you
look at it a pound for pound basis, it's still
a little bit higher than influenza.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
What can you tell us about this new strain then,
XC it's called.
Speaker 7 (23:33):
So xCC is a variant that really came to light
in Europe. It's a combination of two different versions of
omicron variants that have been circulating, so it's what we
would call a recombinant variant, and it does seem to
be increasing in many parts of Europe. There have been
cases in the United States, but in the United States
it's less than probably one percent of infection, so it's
not officially being tracked. But you have to remember, if
(23:55):
it's not xCC, it's going to be another variant. There's
always going to be one variant coming up, variant coming down,
one with their moment in the spotlight, one that's kind
of fading off to the side, And that's always going
to be the case, and it's the case with any
other respiratory virus. It's just that the media are much
more interested in COVID variants, even when they don't really
change the equation. So, yes, xCC might become a dominant variant,
(24:16):
but does it change anything that people need to do?
Probably not. Does it have an impact on the efficacy
of the newly updated vaccine, probably yes, But is it
going to change the equation or how people live with COVID?
Speaker 5 (24:27):
No, Well, talk to us about vaccines. I did not
get the latest I mean i'd gotten four or five shots,
you know, as we were supposed to during the pandemic.
Having said that, I don't think I got the last
one and I kind of passed. I think I just
I don't know. So what's your guidance on getting vaccines?
Should we treat it like the flu? Vaccine, get it.
If you're high risk, get it, just get it. Like,
(24:49):
what's your advice here to people?
Speaker 7 (24:52):
Well, I think if you're high risk, you definitely benefit
from staying up to date with your vaccines, right, and
high risk means people that are overweight, people that OBEs,
people with diabetes, hypertension, you know, compromise, people who are pregnant.
It's a large swath of the population that probably should
be getting that vaccine. If you're a low risk person
twenty years old, no medical problems, you're probably not going
to get very much of a benefit from the vaccine.
(25:14):
You'll get some transient protection against infection, which will wear off.
And I think, you know, I've always been of the
mindset that's in the UK, that's in Europe, and even
in Canada, where there's much more target vaccination to high
risk groups. I think that's much better than a universal
recommendation because what's happening is high risk people aren't you know,
they think everybody gets this, that they're not special, when
(25:35):
they really are. The virus does treat the very special.
They're at higher risk for severe disease. And I really
think we need to get our high risk populations vaccinated,
because if we're vaccinating a bunch of healthy thirty year
olds but not seventy year olds, that's not going to
really do anything to put a dent in you know,
the tens of thousands of deaths that will occur from
COVID nineteen over this winter season.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, that's interesting to your point to me, and my
parents in Dublin got a call from their local doctor
says zign Yeah, if you know. And at topened every
year and it depends again us O us cashal. Gray
And another topic that we want to talk to you
about though, is the new flu vaccine. It's going to
be different. This is an option that might actually perhaps
encourage people that might be scared of needles to go first.
Speaker 7 (26:17):
Yes, So we've had this vaccine around since around two
thousand and three. It's called flu Miss. It's a nasal
flu vaccine, so it's needle free. It's basically a spray
you that's sprayed into your nostril. And it's now been
approved by the FDA for self administration, which is the
first vaccine that we've seen be approoved for self administration.
So this is a very innovative way to increase flu
(26:37):
vaccine rates. Hopefully people who are needlephobic, people who don't
have the time to go and find a place to
get a flu vaccination will take advantage of this. So
I think this is kind of a really important development,
hopefully one that people will take advantage of and hopefully
which will lead to a precedent for more self administered vaccine,
self administered tests, because I think that really gives people
(26:58):
a lot of autonomy, and we'll hope increase recommendation guidance,
recommendation adherence, and people will get more people will get
flu vaccinated, and this is just another way to do that.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
A couple of things my understanding is indicated for an
individuals from like maybe two to forty nine years of age.
Is that the case do you need a prescription? And
is it covered by insurance?
Speaker 7 (27:19):
So it is two to forty nine because Flu miss
that that brand of flu vaccine is only have to
approve for that group. It doesn't mean it doesn't work
in other groups. It just means that the company didn't
actually seek approval in people that were younger than two
or people that were older than forty nine. So that's
where that's where the risk restrictions are, and what the
company is going to do is have a website set up,
kind of a third party website where you kind of
(27:39):
do a questionnaire and if you meet the qualifications, they
will ship that vaccine to your home for you to
give give yourself or to give to your children. Insurance
I suspect will cover it. It may vary from plan
to plan, but I think they should take that They
should cover it. There's no reason that they wouldn't because
it's a recommended vaccine and they cover other flu vaccines.
Speaker 5 (27:59):
Great update, certainly on something that is still a part
of our world. We're talking about COVID and just flew
certainly important. Doctor AMESH. Adalja, Senior Scholar, Infectious Disease physician
at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security at the
Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. Of course, supported
by Michael R. Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg BusinessWeek,
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