June 30, 2025 • 12 mins
Roaring returns for US IPOs are driving fresh optimism that activity will pick up steam later this year and into 2026, even as worries over geopolitics and President Donald Trump’s tariffs hang over the market.
Led by triple-digit-percent increases for Circle Internet Group Inc. and CoreWeave Inc. — two of the year’s five largest initial public offerings on US exchanges — this year’s class of debutantes are trading up by a weighted average of about 53%, data compiled by Bloomberg show. That’s left investors hungry for more, particularly in a year where the S&P 500 Index has struggled to remain in the black.
Michael Harris, vice chairman and global head of markets at NYSE examines the health of the IPO market as well as his company's position of strength within the hierarchy of global trading platforms.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Business
Week Daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders
stay ahead with insight on the people, companies, and trends
shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business, finance and tech
(00:23):
news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast
with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Let's talk capital markets, because that's what we do, Yeah, Bloomberg.
I don't know if you have noticed this, Carol, well,
I know you've noticed it, but IPOs have kind of
been on a tear, led by triple digit percent increases
for Circle and Corewave, two of the year's five largest
IPOs on US exchanges. This year's class of debutants are
trading up by a weighted average about fifty three percent.
(00:54):
This is according to data compought by Bloomberg Full disclosure just
a little earlier this week. Kind of a market difference
from what we've seen in recent years. It's still not
what I think investors wanted to see.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
But what's great is there's momentum, but it's also performance. Right,
investors are staying with these names. We've got a great
voice on.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
This Michael Harris is back with us. He's got his
finger on the pulse of everything happening in capital markets.
He's Vice chair in Global Head of Markets at the
New York Stock Exchange. He joins us on site here
at the Unchartered Community Summit in beautiful Southampton, New York.
Last time we spoke with you was at another event,
equally beautiful by the way, equally beautiful down to New
York exactly that was. That was back in early March.
(01:33):
A lot has happened since then. We've kind of had
a round trip when it comes to equity markets. There
were some concerns a few weeks after we spoke about
companies pulling their IPOs as a result of what was
happening with trade. Those IPOs they ended up happening in
May and June. How would you describe the environment right now?
Speaker 4 (01:53):
I mean, I think, you know, the round trip that
you described is exactly the way to think about it.
You know, we've seen a complete one hundred and eighty
return in terms of sentiment, in terms of where the
market backdrop is and it's playing out in the ipo
market on a couple different factors. On one hand, we're
seeing the subscription levels in terms of interest on IPOs
are through the roof. So these deals that are coming
(02:14):
to the marketplace are multiple times over subscribed interest from
a wide range of investors. The second part of it
is when they do come to the market, the actual
pricing outcomes are oftentimes very much in the favor of
the issuers. And then the third part of it is
the performance, which you mentioned just now. The performance on
day one, the follow through in the aftermarket, all the
(02:35):
way through the offer to today's performance has been absolutely phenomenal.
So that really keeps the cycle in terms of investor
interests continuing to go. And so what we're seeing that
play out is really in our backlock. So we see
a very active summer, we see an active September, and
we think it's going to be a very active twenty
twenty five forward.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
What does that backlock look like? You say active, I mean,
how backed up is it and how eager are these
that are back I'm ready to go?
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Yeah. Well, you know, for the first part, you're seeing,
on one hand, a lot of companies that were delaying
their IPOs because of some of the tensions that happened
in the beginning part of the year, so some of
them have taken a step back, and they were kind
of waiting to see, on one hand, just what happened
from a geopolitical standpoint, how things are playing out in
terms of just the tensions that were in the air.
And also they're waiting to see from the investor community
(03:22):
what the reception was going to be for some of
the more recent crop of IPOs. So we've gotten those results.
Those results have been in many cases much better than
they thought they would be, and so they're now ready
to push forward. The other part of it is what
we're seeing now is a much more diverse array of
companies that are going public. You know, when you and
I talked, we were talking about who would be the
most likely companies to go public, and they would be
(03:43):
likely the more defensive names. Now we're seeing that start
to broaden out. So our pipeline looks more diverse than
it was back in March. It looks also for larger
companies that are also going to be coming So really,
in all respects, it tends to be a very healthy outcome.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
How has that pipeline diversity shifted in recent years? I
remember when I spent three four years working from the
floor of the New York Stock Exchange as a reporter,
and there was a period in twenty seventeen twenty eighteen,
no joke, no exaggeration, almost every other day there was
a Chinese company going public in the United States. These
(04:18):
were companies we had never heard of. There were companies
that we haven't heard from since. I mean, it was
really really wild times. Then there was this crackdown on
a lot of these companies that were listed from China
in the US. Yeah, has that business completely dried up
for you? I mean she and has filed confidentially to
(04:39):
with Ibo in.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
K We saw that today, Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know,
it's interesting. There's still a class of companies that are
for the most part microcap in nature, a lot of
them domiciled in China, that are still coming public. That's
a class of companies that quite frankly, we have the
New York Stock Exchange really don't really look to. Some
of our editors tend to focus on that market, and
(05:02):
we've seen a number of articles, whether it's from The
Wall Street Journal, Financial Times or others, that have really
pointed to some of the problems that have become as
a result of that, So that's not something we really
focus on. But we are still seeing some of those
companies come to the public markets. But I think there's
some challenges with that, and there's going to probably continue
to be challenges with that going forward. Still out of China,
some are you choosing to list in other areas of
(05:23):
the world. Yeah, you know, it depends a little bit
on market cap, it depends on the sector. I think
what you are seeing is a bit of a preference
for many companies just for liquidity. So the US market
still continues to be a place where they would like
to list, but for larger names, the home markets continue
to be also very attractive, you know, Cattle being a
(05:44):
great example of that. Early in the year sheann looking
to the Hong Kong relative to London. So depending on
the name, depending on the sector, depending on the specifics
of those companies, home markets can also be a very
viable alternative.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
To Michael. In some of the cases with the IBOs,
we've really seen quite a pop and that for day
of trading, right, that's a good sign. You know, we
want to see that as certainly a company that going
public wants to see that. But it always begs the
question were they too conservative in you know, the numbers
that they put out there. I am curious what are
the conversations that you're hearing from those folks and those
companies that are looking to go public, are they would
(06:16):
they rather be a little conservative going in and making
sure that that's a good first day of trading.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Yeah. You know, I think when you talk to people
in the world of IPOs, whether they're bankers or lawyers,
you know, it's often talked about being more of an
art than a science, and I think there is a
little bit of truth to that. Yeah, there's a balancing
act that always has to happen between getting the right investors,
those being the ones that are going to be supportive
of your company, not just on day one, but making
sure that there's adequate follow through as you think about
(06:43):
companies that are going through their cycles of maturity as
a public company, right and also companies that are investors
rather they're going to be supporting the company from a
liquidity perspective, And there's a balance of the two in
the aftermarket. And the reality is until you actually get
to that stage where you're in the pricing room and
you're actually confronting with management in terms of what the
dynamics look like. It's sometimes tough to tell, and so
(07:06):
I think the underwriters do a great job of being
able to offer what those trade offs are going to
be to management teams. Ultimately, the management teams are the
ones that have to make those really tough decisions. But
I always think about it in terms of the IPO process.
Ultimately it's a day one event, and really what management teams,
what their stakeholders need to focus on, is really trying
to set up a company for success over the long
(07:28):
term and not focus on necessarily the day one performance.
Obviously you want a great pricing outcome, but really you're
managing this company for the long haul. It's not really
just for the day one IPO event.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Can you give us an update on the New York
Stock Exchange Texas launch this year. We talked about it
back in March.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Yeah, we have, you know, multiple companies that are now
listed there. We have a pretty fairly healthy pipeline of
companies that are going to be going listing on the
exchange over the next several months. We are very close
to signing a lease in Dallas. We're going to be
very close to actually person that's going to be running
that business. So it's really continuing to take on momentum,
(08:05):
and so we really are excited about it.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Do you think it's perhaps a hedge in New York
City losing its place when it comes to capital markets?
And I ask this kind of came into sharp relief
this week with I think a lot of people would
argue with what happened in the Democratic primary for the
mayoral election, and we don't know who's going to win,
(08:26):
but we certainly have a lot of outspoken billionaires who've
talked about concerns when it comes to capital markets here
in New York in the position of New York City
as being the epicenter of Wall Street.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Yeah, I mean for Texas, the way that we've thought
about it is when we look at our own listed
community and we look at the number of companies in
terms of where they're domiciled, Texas really stands out tends
to be the area where we have the most number
of companies from a really diverse range of sectors that
are represented. And so when we kind of really thought
about it from the perspective of what Governor Abbott's doing
(09:02):
to try to make sure that the ecosystem of companies
within Texas is vibrant, and you know, it intersects with
a lot of what we're trying to do in terms
of getting a great environment for our own listed community.
It really made sense. So we think about this more
from the long term perspective of offering the best environment
for our listed community, less in terms of like a
short term strategy in terms of what might be happening
(09:24):
in the New York ecosystem. We still are big believers
that New York continues to be a great place for
capital raising and also were companies to be domiciled, but
longer term.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Than does that mean, you know, and I'm sure you've
had questions about this, and I'm sure we've talked about it.
Does it expand the model? Like do you anticipate that
there's going to be other major cities that you guys
will also have in exchange.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
It's hard to know, you know, working at the Crystal Ball,
it's really hard to know. Like we're really just focused
on kind of where we see the greatest opportunity for
our community right now, but we're always for thinking in
terms of really trying to see where the greatest opportunity
results for our community. Another great example of that I'd
point to is extended hours trading. You know, we were
the first exchange to look at twenty two to five
(10:04):
trading as an opportunity. We're really happy to see the
SEC kind of move towards that, and so we think
that there's going to be other opportunities. So we're gonna
try to take a leadership position to try to extend
our leader.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
No, we need less because that means days off for us,
because we need a break.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
That's the bad news for you guys. You're going to
be on twenty two hours a day. That's the outside.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
There should be times except for M and A deals.
Weekends were quiet, the summer was quiet. A financial basis.
Has that it's just been kind of NonStop.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
It's been exciting.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Yeah, white House though, in terms of volatility, that really
is the thing that impacts the markets, and that's what
ultimate little impact right in terms of new listings and
stuff everybody's watching.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
I think it's a combination of what you're seeing in Washington.
It's a combination of what you're seeing with the FED,
and it's a combination of what you're going to see
on the company level in terms of earnings, yeah right,
But in many respects things that's not that different from
what it's always been, all right, And so I think
the way that we've always tried to approach it is
we always want companies to try to look at the
(11:09):
trade off of all those three things. What's the right
trade off for themselves as they think about being able
to build great companies. But ultimately investors are going to
want to invest in great companies that can weather those
cycles regardless. All right, it's going to leave with that.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Michael, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
I thank you.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
It is great seeing you both. Fun to check in
with you again.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Michael Harris bes Chairman and global head of Capital Markets
at the New York Stock has changed right here on
site at the Unsharted Community Summit.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday
afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot com,
the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App.
You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube
(11:52):
and always on the Bloomberg terminal
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Business
Week Daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders
stay ahead with insight on the people, companies, and trends
shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business, finance and tech
(00:23):
news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast
with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Let's talk capital markets, because that's what we do, Yeah, Bloomberg.
I don't know if you have noticed this, Carol, well,
I know you've noticed it, but IPOs have kind of
been on a tear, led by triple digit percent increases
for Circle and Corewave, two of the year's five largest
IPOs on US exchanges. This year's class of debutants are
trading up by a weighted average about fifty three percent.
(00:54):
This is according to data compought by Bloomberg Full disclosure just
a little earlier this week. Kind of a market difference
from what we've seen in recent years. It's still not
what I think investors wanted to see.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
But what's great is there's momentum, but it's also performance. Right,
investors are staying with these names. We've got a great
voice on.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
This Michael Harris is back with us. He's got his
finger on the pulse of everything happening in capital markets.
He's Vice chair in Global Head of Markets at the
New York Stock Exchange. He joins us on site here
at the Unchartered Community Summit in beautiful Southampton, New York.
Last time we spoke with you was at another event,
equally beautiful by the way, equally beautiful down to New
York exactly that was. That was back in early March.
(01:33):
A lot has happened since then. We've kind of had
a round trip when it comes to equity markets. There
were some concerns a few weeks after we spoke about
companies pulling their IPOs as a result of what was
happening with trade. Those IPOs they ended up happening in
May and June. How would you describe the environment right now?
Speaker 4 (01:53):
I mean, I think, you know, the round trip that
you described is exactly the way to think about it.
You know, we've seen a complete one hundred and eighty
return in terms of sentiment, in terms of where the
market backdrop is and it's playing out in the ipo
market on a couple different factors. On one hand, we're
seeing the subscription levels in terms of interest on IPOs
are through the roof. So these deals that are coming
(02:14):
to the marketplace are multiple times over subscribed interest from
a wide range of investors. The second part of it
is when they do come to the market, the actual
pricing outcomes are oftentimes very much in the favor of
the issuers. And then the third part of it is
the performance, which you mentioned just now. The performance on
day one, the follow through in the aftermarket, all the
(02:35):
way through the offer to today's performance has been absolutely phenomenal.
So that really keeps the cycle in terms of investor
interests continuing to go. And so what we're seeing that
play out is really in our backlock. So we see
a very active summer, we see an active September, and
we think it's going to be a very active twenty
twenty five forward.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
What does that backlock look like? You say active, I mean,
how backed up is it and how eager are these
that are back I'm ready to go?
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Yeah. Well, you know, for the first part, you're seeing,
on one hand, a lot of companies that were delaying
their IPOs because of some of the tensions that happened
in the beginning part of the year, so some of
them have taken a step back, and they were kind
of waiting to see, on one hand, just what happened
from a geopolitical standpoint, how things are playing out in
terms of just the tensions that were in the air.
And also they're waiting to see from the investor community
(03:22):
what the reception was going to be for some of
the more recent crop of IPOs. So we've gotten those results.
Those results have been in many cases much better than
they thought they would be, and so they're now ready
to push forward. The other part of it is what
we're seeing now is a much more diverse array of
companies that are going public. You know, when you and
I talked, we were talking about who would be the
most likely companies to go public, and they would be
(03:43):
likely the more defensive names. Now we're seeing that start
to broaden out. So our pipeline looks more diverse than
it was back in March. It looks also for larger
companies that are also going to be coming So really,
in all respects, it tends to be a very healthy outcome.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
How has that pipeline diversity shifted in recent years? I
remember when I spent three four years working from the
floor of the New York Stock Exchange as a reporter,
and there was a period in twenty seventeen twenty eighteen,
no joke, no exaggeration, almost every other day there was
a Chinese company going public in the United States. These
(04:18):
were companies we had never heard of. There were companies
that we haven't heard from since. I mean, it was
really really wild times. Then there was this crackdown on
a lot of these companies that were listed from China
in the US. Yeah, has that business completely dried up
for you? I mean she and has filed confidentially to
(04:39):
with Ibo in.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
K We saw that today, Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know,
it's interesting. There's still a class of companies that are
for the most part microcap in nature, a lot of
them domiciled in China, that are still coming public. That's
a class of companies that quite frankly, we have the
New York Stock Exchange really don't really look to. Some
of our editors tend to focus on that market, and
(05:02):
we've seen a number of articles, whether it's from The
Wall Street Journal, Financial Times or others, that have really
pointed to some of the problems that have become as
a result of that, So that's not something we really
focus on. But we are still seeing some of those
companies come to the public markets. But I think there's
some challenges with that, and there's going to probably continue
to be challenges with that going forward. Still out of China,
some are you choosing to list in other areas of
(05:23):
the world. Yeah, you know, it depends a little bit
on market cap, it depends on the sector. I think
what you are seeing is a bit of a preference
for many companies just for liquidity. So the US market
still continues to be a place where they would like
to list, but for larger names, the home markets continue
to be also very attractive, you know, Cattle being a
(05:44):
great example of that. Early in the year sheann looking
to the Hong Kong relative to London. So depending on
the name, depending on the sector, depending on the specifics
of those companies, home markets can also be a very
viable alternative.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
To Michael. In some of the cases with the IBOs,
we've really seen quite a pop and that for day
of trading, right, that's a good sign. You know, we
want to see that as certainly a company that going
public wants to see that. But it always begs the
question were they too conservative in you know, the numbers
that they put out there. I am curious what are
the conversations that you're hearing from those folks and those
companies that are looking to go public, are they would
(06:16):
they rather be a little conservative going in and making
sure that that's a good first day of trading.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Yeah. You know, I think when you talk to people
in the world of IPOs, whether they're bankers or lawyers,
you know, it's often talked about being more of an
art than a science, and I think there is a
little bit of truth to that. Yeah, there's a balancing
act that always has to happen between getting the right investors,
those being the ones that are going to be supportive
of your company, not just on day one, but making
sure that there's adequate follow through as you think about
(06:43):
companies that are going through their cycles of maturity as
a public company, right and also companies that are investors
rather they're going to be supporting the company from a
liquidity perspective, And there's a balance of the two in
the aftermarket. And the reality is until you actually get
to that stage where you're in the pricing room and
you're actually confronting with management in terms of what the
dynamics look like. It's sometimes tough to tell, and so
(07:06):
I think the underwriters do a great job of being
able to offer what those trade offs are going to
be to management teams. Ultimately, the management teams are the
ones that have to make those really tough decisions. But
I always think about it in terms of the IPO process.
Ultimately it's a day one event, and really what management teams,
what their stakeholders need to focus on, is really trying
to set up a company for success over the long
(07:28):
term and not focus on necessarily the day one performance.
Obviously you want a great pricing outcome, but really you're
managing this company for the long haul. It's not really
just for the day one IPO event.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Can you give us an update on the New York
Stock Exchange Texas launch this year. We talked about it
back in March.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Yeah, we have, you know, multiple companies that are now
listed there. We have a pretty fairly healthy pipeline of
companies that are going to be going listing on the
exchange over the next several months. We are very close
to signing a lease in Dallas. We're going to be
very close to actually person that's going to be running
that business. So it's really continuing to take on momentum,
(08:05):
and so we really are excited about it.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Do you think it's perhaps a hedge in New York
City losing its place when it comes to capital markets?
And I ask this kind of came into sharp relief
this week with I think a lot of people would
argue with what happened in the Democratic primary for the
mayoral election, and we don't know who's going to win,
(08:26):
but we certainly have a lot of outspoken billionaires who've
talked about concerns when it comes to capital markets here
in New York in the position of New York City
as being the epicenter of Wall Street.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Yeah, I mean for Texas, the way that we've thought
about it is when we look at our own listed
community and we look at the number of companies in
terms of where they're domiciled, Texas really stands out tends
to be the area where we have the most number
of companies from a really diverse range of sectors that
are represented. And so when we kind of really thought
about it from the perspective of what Governor Abbott's doing
(09:02):
to try to make sure that the ecosystem of companies
within Texas is vibrant, and you know, it intersects with
a lot of what we're trying to do in terms
of getting a great environment for our own listed community.
It really made sense. So we think about this more
from the long term perspective of offering the best environment
for our listed community, less in terms of like a
short term strategy in terms of what might be happening
(09:24):
in the New York ecosystem. We still are big believers
that New York continues to be a great place for
capital raising and also were companies to be domiciled, but
longer term.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Than does that mean, you know, and I'm sure you've
had questions about this, and I'm sure we've talked about it.
Does it expand the model? Like do you anticipate that
there's going to be other major cities that you guys
will also have in exchange.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
It's hard to know, you know, working at the Crystal Ball,
it's really hard to know. Like we're really just focused
on kind of where we see the greatest opportunity for
our community right now, but we're always for thinking in
terms of really trying to see where the greatest opportunity
results for our community. Another great example of that I'd
point to is extended hours trading. You know, we were
the first exchange to look at twenty two to five
(10:04):
trading as an opportunity. We're really happy to see the
SEC kind of move towards that, and so we think
that there's going to be other opportunities. So we're gonna
try to take a leadership position to try to extend
our leader.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
No, we need less because that means days off for us,
because we need a break.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
That's the bad news for you guys. You're going to
be on twenty two hours a day. That's the outside.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
There should be times except for M and A deals.
Weekends were quiet, the summer was quiet. A financial basis.
Has that it's just been kind of NonStop.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
It's been exciting.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Yeah, white House though, in terms of volatility, that really
is the thing that impacts the markets, and that's what
ultimate little impact right in terms of new listings and
stuff everybody's watching.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
I think it's a combination of what you're seeing in Washington.
It's a combination of what you're seeing with the FED,
and it's a combination of what you're going to see
on the company level in terms of earnings, yeah right,
But in many respects things that's not that different from
what it's always been, all right, And so I think
the way that we've always tried to approach it is
we always want companies to try to look at the
(11:09):
trade off of all those three things. What's the right
trade off for themselves as they think about being able
to build great companies. But ultimately investors are going to
want to invest in great companies that can weather those
cycles regardless. All right, it's going to leave with that.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Michael, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
I thank you.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
It is great seeing you both. Fun to check in
with you again.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Michael Harris bes Chairman and global head of Capital Markets
at the New York Stock has changed right here on
site at the Unsharted Community Summit.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday
afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot com,
the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App.
You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube
(11:52):
and always on the Bloomberg terminal
Hosts And Creators
Tim Stenovec
Carol Massar
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.