June 25, 2020 • 13 mins
Lanaya Irvin, President of the Center for Talent Innovation, discusses ways leaders and employees can break their silence as it relates to diversity and inclusion. She points out the importance of representation and visibility in the workplace.
Hosts: Carol Massar and Jason Kelly. Producer: Doni Holloway.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason
Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. Thank you very much, Charlie Pellett.
Gotta say I'm eager to get to our next guest.
I've been um doing a bunch of reading Jason about her.
She began her job on March two as president of
the Center for Talent Innovation. It's a fifteen year old
nonprofit think tank. It's dedicated to diversity and inclusion in
(00:23):
the workplace. She spent more than decade on Wall Street,
including a Bank of America, Bank of America Merrill Lynch
excuse me, where she led global equity asset management. She
is also co chair of the Human Rights Campaign's National
Business Advisory Council, and it's a form of diversity leaders
from fortune companies. She's also founding executive member of Open Finance.
(00:43):
It's a consortium of l g B, d Q leaders
advancing inclusion across Wall Street. I feel like, Lenia Irvin,
you represent so much at the conversations that we've been
having about the last fourteen fifteen weeks and certainly in
the last month. She joins us on the phone from
New York City. Welcome welcome to Bloomberg. Thank you for
(01:04):
having I have to say talk about timing year. I
think roughly what four months in on your job. We've
been dealing with the virus UM. Of course, the aftermath
of George Floyd. UM, a lot of talk about diversity
and racism around the country. Talk to us about your
last four months. Well, you know, it's been an extraordinary
leadership condition, I would say, UM, you know, definitely, you know, UM,
(01:29):
an unexpected UM moment. I think we honestly we are
we find ourselves on a tremendous moment of pain and
complexity in this country. UM. And obviously that wasn't something
I expected uh in March when I made the transition,
but obviously something that UM I leaned into. You know,
(01:51):
I think we are our firm obviously advantage research and advisory,
and this was an opportunity for us to connect with
our half course in a more meaningful way. UM. It's
required a more human centered leadership, and that's something that
I've been champion championing with large corporate I've been advising.
But though it's been it's been extremely tough. It's extremely
(02:13):
tough to witness the disproportionate impact and what maybe really
when maybe lasting um uh you know, could have change
in our society both positive um but potentially um heartbreaking
as well. You know, Lena, I had a CEO that
(02:34):
I was talking to yesterday who is black, talk about
the his fear that this is but a moment. You
know that this is just another moment that we sort
of recognize, we live in it for a little while.
We all sort of look around and say, ah, this
is terrible, and I wish there was something we could do,
(02:57):
but it's fleeting. What do we do to prevent that
from happening? Well, you know what, I hope that this
time is different because the stakes are higher. You know,
the world is watching. At this point. We've seen quite
a few UM CEOs and you know leaders come out
(03:17):
with corporate state statements obviously denounced being racism and injustice,
and I think that's been chast it. But I think
the expectation is much greater now. Companies need to commit
to doing the work internally so they actually have the
right to make these statements, uh during times of global
and national significance. Um. So I think that that is
(03:37):
is where this one moment is difference in where I'm
optimistic that they might actually kind of deliver on, you know,
a promise. Man, I just want to kind of sit
with that for a moment. What you just said. Leaders
are coming at making statements, but they have to do
the work internally to justify their right to make those
statements externally. That's huge, and I think that is what
(03:59):
could make this time different. Correct, definitely. I think this
is what m you know, the we have to think
we have. We are dealing with, you know, multiple crises simultaneously, right,
global health pandemic which allowed to tremendous uncertainty and the
(04:23):
severe in severe economic dislocation, and we now have millions
of people right who have experienced rapid human laws, death, unemployment. UM.
You know, obviously we witnessed the taking a black slide
at the hands of the police, and so you're you're
dealing with the community, you know, a nation state filled
(04:43):
with collective Greek right. Um. You know, I a few
weeks ago, UM, in a newsweek UM opinion piece that
I tended, you know, I write about the right to
anger and rage keeping through and you know I I
I write over time, fear and grief become fault lines
(05:05):
hastening and eruption, interruption and collective outcry for justice. And
what that basically meant was, you know what we're witnessing
now right on rest, It shouldn't be surprising to anyone. Right,
people can only push down such courage. People can only
of you know, of withstand such as violence and countless
downgrades to one's dignity before interruption occurs. Right, you had
(05:27):
people home, you had people, um, you know, suffering lack
of access to quality health care. Uh, and then you
you know, it's compounded by witnessing yet another death. And
so I think this is an instance where the call
to action is clear because it's coming from um, you know,
the country as a whole. Right, we have nothing else
(05:48):
to distract us, Right, We're not hopping on a subway
and heading into the office. We can't go to a
movie or grab a grab dinner with friends. We have
nothing but opportunity to folk us on what the crisis
have exposed once again, which is structural inequality in our society.
All Right, We're going to continue this conversation because we've
(06:10):
got a lot more questions for you, Lania, and just
love some of the things that you're saying and the
urgency with which you're saying it, because it feels like
that's going to be key for these conversations continuing and
for conversations, as you said, Carol, I think a little
bit earlier in the show, for the conversations to lead
to action, to measurable action where you can have this
(06:31):
and I've had a number of conversations this week about
this as well. But what Lena said about this whole
idea that if you're going to make public statements, you
better be doing the work basically at home that will
lead to those structural changes, and that's what gives you
the right to make the statements externally. Right, We've heard
a lot of talk it's all about actions. Now, make
a difference, change the system, change the structure that has
(06:52):
been the foundation and basis of the inequalities. We're going
to continue that conversation in just a moment. Well, let's
get back to our conversation with Linnea Irvin. She is
the president for the Center for Talent Innovation. Johns on
the phone from New York City. We're in the midst
of a great conversation around what happens next, what we
should be doing, and maybe more importantly, what leaders should
(07:13):
be doing in their companies and having conversations about race
in the workplace is so important, Lena. You mentioned earlier
in the conversation this notion of human centric leadership, which
I think is critical here. What does that look like
in a remote world? What does it look like in
a world right now where people are really trying to
(07:33):
figure out how to talk to each other? Right? Well,
you know, I think well, conversations are are critical, right um,
opening up safe space for real dialogue. UM. You know,
it's a great way to ensure that your employees steel heard,
(07:54):
you know, um, ensure that they're seen. But it's also
a really great opportunity for leaders and would be allies
to listen, right, be active in in uh their leadership, um,
and and demonstrate from awareness of this moment in time
the context in which we live disproportionate impact. Right. UM.
(08:16):
I'm sure many leaders are. Of course they're considering UH,
COVID nineteen and unemployment rates and UH and obviously they
cannot unsee racism and polute police brutality. UM. But at
the same time, are they communicating, are they signaling to
their employee base at this is top of mind for them. Um,
(08:38):
you know, I think you know, I hosted a similar
conversation uh, you know, within my organization a couple of
weeks ago. And you know, while on one hand it
was tremendous vulnerability from a leadership standpoint to share my
experiences in the end after listening to uh, you know,
the team share, but on the other hand, it was
(08:59):
extremely powerful. Right. It's important for leaders to be visible,
to be vocal, And in this case, even if the
conversation was difficult, it offered up space for storytelling, it
offered offered up meaningful bridging capital, and brought the team
closer together. And so I think conversation is a good
place to start, uh, you know, for for leaders looking
(09:21):
to connect with their employees at this time, Lennie. The
other thing, you know, and it's something Jason and I
have talked a lot about in particular over the past month.
Um made a conversation conversation with John O'Brien of Operation Hope,
and and what's interesting is he was talking with younger
a younger population, you know, about why people are protesting
and why does it get kind of sometimes, you know,
(09:42):
out of control a little bit, And and they said
to him, you know, you have a seat at the table.
You get to go to the White House, you get
to talk to executives. We don't have a seat at
the table. You know, we're not in the room when
it all happens. And so it's and as he said
to us, this is a poverty issue. This is this
is you know, a much deeper entrenched problem in our situation,
(10:03):
in our system. What do you think we as all
leaders and who have voices, what can we do to
change that? How do we change that? Well? Right, well,
I mean, first admit that there is entrenched bias, right
that is that that creates barriers to UM success or
you know, access to meaningful work. But just you know
(10:24):
that admission alone is a great step. And then I think,
you know it's important for leaders to you know, be
intentional about what they can control, you know, whether that's
you know, hiring, development, promotion of key talent. Um. You know,
representation is and in visibility is really important. Our research
(10:44):
find um that you know, it's probably one of the
most important things when we do have UM talent. Uh,
some talent frustrated with their advancement. One in five black professionals,
for example, UM feel that some of their race could
never achieve a top position at their company. I mean
they can envision a reflection of their own image in
(11:07):
the C suite or a CEO, right compared to uh
three percent as like professionals. Right. And then professionals of
color you know, as a whole are less likely to
have access to senior executive advocates. One fifth of black
employees and I would note of Asian professionals say that
not a single leader knows them by name. Imagine being
rendered invisible in connection to power and the long term
(11:30):
impact that could have on one's career. Right. So I
think one one thing that will help, UM, you know,
organizations kind of bridge with with you know, emerging talent,
those that are coming up in these organizations and they
are UM looking to eventually have a seat at the table.
Acknowledge that there is a disconnect, right, Um, there's a
(11:53):
there's a in are being black and Corporate America research.
One really big finding was a perception gap, UM that
was unveiled in the data. Uh So black professionals, for example,
they witnessed, you know, they experienced serious to advancement, but
they seem this seems largely invisible to their white colleague.
So where slack professionals say yes, black talent has to
(12:15):
work much harder to advance, only of their colleagues agree
with that statement. So there's there's a material yet, there's
a material procession gap that makes overcoming the hurdle of retention, development,
advancement that much more difficult. It's just a reminder that
there's still I feel like so much we all have
to learn in this process. Um, Lenia, thank you so much,
(12:38):
and I hope we can check back with you again
in the future. Really really appreciate your time on this Wednesday.
Lenia Irvin, she's president of the Center for Talent Innovation,
joining us on the phone from New York City. But
you know, she is someone who understands diversity inclusion from
so many different perspectives. Jason has worked on Wall Street,
which is you know, can be hit a place when
(12:58):
it comes to those both things. Know, that was really
what I wanted to We're gonna have to have her
back because I do feel like, you know, in our
little world here, if Wall Street can figure this out,
I really feel like literally anyone can. And so what
does she think the conversations that need to happen. You know,
we're starting to see some movement. You know, Larry Fink
(13:18):
coming out and talking about the high, setting specific goals
to hire black workers at his shops Blackstone, to coming
out in terms of how they're gonna do recruiting. It's
not just taking from other already Wall Street firms, but
actually being much more aggressive on campus to bring in
new bodies. So really important UM actions, actions, actions, That's
(13:40):
what it's about.
This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason
Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. Thank you very much, Charlie Pellett.
Gotta say I'm eager to get to our next guest.
I've been um doing a bunch of reading Jason about her.
She began her job on March two as president of
the Center for Talent Innovation. It's a fifteen year old
nonprofit think tank. It's dedicated to diversity and inclusion in
(00:23):
the workplace. She spent more than decade on Wall Street,
including a Bank of America, Bank of America Merrill Lynch
excuse me, where she led global equity asset management. She
is also co chair of the Human Rights Campaign's National
Business Advisory Council, and it's a form of diversity leaders
from fortune companies. She's also founding executive member of Open Finance.
(00:43):
It's a consortium of l g B, d Q leaders
advancing inclusion across Wall Street. I feel like, Lenia Irvin,
you represent so much at the conversations that we've been
having about the last fourteen fifteen weeks and certainly in
the last month. She joins us on the phone from
New York City. Welcome welcome to Bloomberg. Thank you for
(01:04):
having I have to say talk about timing year. I
think roughly what four months in on your job. We've
been dealing with the virus UM. Of course, the aftermath
of George Floyd. UM, a lot of talk about diversity
and racism around the country. Talk to us about your
last four months. Well, you know, it's been an extraordinary
leadership condition, I would say, UM, you know, definitely, you know, UM,
(01:29):
an unexpected UM moment. I think we honestly we are
we find ourselves on a tremendous moment of pain and
complexity in this country. UM. And obviously that wasn't something
I expected uh in March when I made the transition,
but obviously something that UM I leaned into. You know,
(01:51):
I think we are our firm obviously advantage research and advisory,
and this was an opportunity for us to connect with
our half course in a more meaningful way. UM. It's
required a more human centered leadership, and that's something that
I've been champion championing with large corporate I've been advising.
But though it's been it's been extremely tough. It's extremely
(02:13):
tough to witness the disproportionate impact and what maybe really
when maybe lasting um uh you know, could have change
in our society both positive um but potentially um heartbreaking
as well. You know, Lena, I had a CEO that
(02:34):
I was talking to yesterday who is black, talk about
the his fear that this is but a moment. You
know that this is just another moment that we sort
of recognize, we live in it for a little while.
We all sort of look around and say, ah, this
is terrible, and I wish there was something we could do,
(02:57):
but it's fleeting. What do we do to prevent that
from happening? Well, you know what, I hope that this
time is different because the stakes are higher. You know,
the world is watching. At this point. We've seen quite
a few UM CEOs and you know leaders come out
(03:17):
with corporate state statements obviously denounced being racism and injustice,
and I think that's been chast it. But I think
the expectation is much greater now. Companies need to commit
to doing the work internally so they actually have the
right to make these statements, uh during times of global
and national significance. Um. So I think that that is
(03:37):
is where this one moment is difference in where I'm
optimistic that they might actually kind of deliver on, you know,
a promise. Man, I just want to kind of sit
with that for a moment. What you just said. Leaders
are coming at making statements, but they have to do
the work internally to justify their right to make those
statements externally. That's huge, and I think that is what
(03:59):
could make this time different. Correct, definitely. I think this
is what m you know, the we have to think
we have. We are dealing with, you know, multiple crises simultaneously, right,
global health pandemic which allowed to tremendous uncertainty and the
(04:23):
severe in severe economic dislocation, and we now have millions
of people right who have experienced rapid human laws, death, unemployment. UM.
You know, obviously we witnessed the taking a black slide
at the hands of the police, and so you're you're
dealing with the community, you know, a nation state filled
(04:43):
with collective Greek right. Um. You know, I a few
weeks ago, UM, in a newsweek UM opinion piece that
I tended, you know, I write about the right to
anger and rage keeping through and you know I I
I write over time, fear and grief become fault lines
(05:05):
hastening and eruption, interruption and collective outcry for justice. And
what that basically meant was, you know what we're witnessing
now right on rest, It shouldn't be surprising to anyone. Right,
people can only push down such courage. People can only
of you know, of withstand such as violence and countless
downgrades to one's dignity before interruption occurs. Right, you had
(05:27):
people home, you had people, um, you know, suffering lack
of access to quality health care. Uh, and then you
you know, it's compounded by witnessing yet another death. And
so I think this is an instance where the call
to action is clear because it's coming from um, you know,
the country as a whole. Right, we have nothing else
(05:48):
to distract us, Right, We're not hopping on a subway
and heading into the office. We can't go to a
movie or grab a grab dinner with friends. We have
nothing but opportunity to folk us on what the crisis
have exposed once again, which is structural inequality in our society.
All Right, We're going to continue this conversation because we've
(06:10):
got a lot more questions for you, Lania, and just
love some of the things that you're saying and the
urgency with which you're saying it, because it feels like
that's going to be key for these conversations continuing and
for conversations, as you said, Carol, I think a little
bit earlier in the show, for the conversations to lead
to action, to measurable action where you can have this
(06:31):
and I've had a number of conversations this week about
this as well. But what Lena said about this whole
idea that if you're going to make public statements, you
better be doing the work basically at home that will
lead to those structural changes, and that's what gives you
the right to make the statements externally. Right, We've heard
a lot of talk it's all about actions. Now, make
a difference, change the system, change the structure that has
(06:52):
been the foundation and basis of the inequalities. We're going
to continue that conversation in just a moment. Well, let's
get back to our conversation with Linnea Irvin. She is
the president for the Center for Talent Innovation. Johns on
the phone from New York City. We're in the midst
of a great conversation around what happens next, what we
should be doing, and maybe more importantly, what leaders should
(07:13):
be doing in their companies and having conversations about race
in the workplace is so important, Lena. You mentioned earlier
in the conversation this notion of human centric leadership, which
I think is critical here. What does that look like
in a remote world? What does it look like in
a world right now where people are really trying to
(07:33):
figure out how to talk to each other? Right? Well,
you know, I think well, conversations are are critical, right um,
opening up safe space for real dialogue. UM. You know,
it's a great way to ensure that your employees steel heard,
(07:54):
you know, um, ensure that they're seen. But it's also
a really great opportunity for leaders and would be allies
to listen, right, be active in in uh their leadership, um,
and and demonstrate from awareness of this moment in time
the context in which we live disproportionate impact. Right. UM.
(08:16):
I'm sure many leaders are. Of course they're considering UH,
COVID nineteen and unemployment rates and UH and obviously they
cannot unsee racism and polute police brutality. UM. But at
the same time, are they communicating, are they signaling to
their employee base at this is top of mind for them. Um,
(08:38):
you know, I think you know, I hosted a similar
conversation uh, you know, within my organization a couple of
weeks ago. And you know, while on one hand it
was tremendous vulnerability from a leadership standpoint to share my
experiences in the end after listening to uh, you know,
the team share, but on the other hand, it was
(08:59):
extremely powerful. Right. It's important for leaders to be visible,
to be vocal, And in this case, even if the
conversation was difficult, it offered up space for storytelling, it
offered offered up meaningful bridging capital, and brought the team
closer together. And so I think conversation is a good
place to start, uh, you know, for for leaders looking
(09:21):
to connect with their employees at this time, Lennie. The
other thing, you know, and it's something Jason and I
have talked a lot about in particular over the past month.
Um made a conversation conversation with John O'Brien of Operation Hope,
and and what's interesting is he was talking with younger
a younger population, you know, about why people are protesting
and why does it get kind of sometimes, you know,
(09:42):
out of control a little bit, And and they said
to him, you know, you have a seat at the table.
You get to go to the White House, you get
to talk to executives. We don't have a seat at
the table. You know, we're not in the room when
it all happens. And so it's and as he said
to us, this is a poverty issue. This is this
is you know, a much deeper entrenched problem in our situation,
(10:03):
in our system. What do you think we as all
leaders and who have voices, what can we do to
change that? How do we change that? Well? Right, well,
I mean, first admit that there is entrenched bias, right
that is that that creates barriers to UM success or
you know, access to meaningful work. But just you know
(10:24):
that admission alone is a great step. And then I think,
you know it's important for leaders to you know, be
intentional about what they can control, you know, whether that's
you know, hiring, development, promotion of key talent. Um. You know,
representation is and in visibility is really important. Our research
(10:44):
find um that you know, it's probably one of the
most important things when we do have UM talent. Uh,
some talent frustrated with their advancement. One in five black professionals,
for example, UM feel that some of their race could
never achieve a top position at their company. I mean
they can envision a reflection of their own image in
(11:07):
the C suite or a CEO, right compared to uh
three percent as like professionals. Right. And then professionals of
color you know, as a whole are less likely to
have access to senior executive advocates. One fifth of black
employees and I would note of Asian professionals say that
not a single leader knows them by name. Imagine being
rendered invisible in connection to power and the long term
(11:30):
impact that could have on one's career. Right. So I
think one one thing that will help, UM, you know,
organizations kind of bridge with with you know, emerging talent,
those that are coming up in these organizations and they
are UM looking to eventually have a seat at the table.
Acknowledge that there is a disconnect, right, Um, there's a
(11:53):
there's a in are being black and Corporate America research.
One really big finding was a perception gap, UM that
was unveiled in the data. Uh So black professionals, for example,
they witnessed, you know, they experienced serious to advancement, but
they seem this seems largely invisible to their white colleague.
So where slack professionals say yes, black talent has to
(12:15):
work much harder to advance, only of their colleagues agree
with that statement. So there's there's a material yet, there's
a material procession gap that makes overcoming the hurdle of retention, development,
advancement that much more difficult. It's just a reminder that
there's still I feel like so much we all have
to learn in this process. Um, Lenia, thank you so much,
(12:38):
and I hope we can check back with you again
in the future. Really really appreciate your time on this Wednesday.
Lenia Irvin, she's president of the Center for Talent Innovation,
joining us on the phone from New York City. But
you know, she is someone who understands diversity inclusion from
so many different perspectives. Jason has worked on Wall Street,
which is you know, can be hit a place when
(12:58):
it comes to those both things. Know, that was really
what I wanted to We're gonna have to have her
back because I do feel like, you know, in our
little world here, if Wall Street can figure this out,
I really feel like literally anyone can. And so what
does she think the conversations that need to happen. You know,
we're starting to see some movement. You know, Larry Fink
(13:18):
coming out and talking about the high, setting specific goals
to hire black workers at his shops Blackstone, to coming
out in terms of how they're gonna do recruiting. It's
not just taking from other already Wall Street firms, but
actually being much more aggressive on campus to bring in
new bodies. So really important UM actions, actions, actions, That's
(13:40):
what it's about.
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Tim Stenovec
Carol Massar
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