December 1, 2023 • 9 mins
Sue Duke, VP of Global Public Policy & Economic Graph at LinkedIn, discusses seeing a critical skills shortage needed to meet climate change targets.
Hosts: Carol Massar and Jess Menton. Producer: Paul Brennan.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and
Tim Stenebek on Bloomberg Radio. We're going to turn our
attention to COP twenty eight as ENVO envoys representing more
than one hundred and ninety nations are gathering in Dubai
this week for the UN's annual Climate Change Conference. The
summit did get underway today and just among those issues
(00:20):
green hiring. I didn't know, but yeah, I guess it
makes sense.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
This is a thing, Carol.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Right, businesses are hiring, are using green hiring to recruit
hire environmentally friendly employees, Companies looking to seek initiatives to
transform sustainability and climate change. And I guess they want
a certain type of worker.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
That's true. And there's another issue emerging in this and
it's called green ceiling, Carols. So where nine to ten
women lack a single green skill or green work experience
according to some data from LinkedIn. So even the women
are joining the green talent ranks at a faster rate
than men, progress isn't as close enough when it comes
(01:02):
to the gender in these skills.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
For story we've heard before, all right, So joining us
now is some depth on the subject to Sue Duke.
She's vice president of Global public Policy and Economic graph
over at LinkedIn. She does us on Zoom from Dublin, Ireland.
I'm so great to have you here with us, Sue,
how are you and talk to us a little bit
about green skills and green hiring.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
It's great to be here. Thank you so much for
having me. Workers going green and jobs going green has
been a very consistent and growing trend on our platform,
and over the past year, even while hiring in the
broader economy has slowed down, we've continued to see that
trend speed right up, as workers with green skills are
(01:46):
in demand and being hired at a much higher rate
than workers who don't.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Can you tell me what green skills are? Though? Go
take a step back for me, because I'm like, what
is Why are those different than your skills in general?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Great question. A green skill is a skill that's either
taking pollution out of the environment or conserving natural resources.
So think of a skill like sustainable design. That's a
great example. Sustainable design is a skill that's being used
across a whole host of green jobs, but it's also
a skill that we see showing off in a host
(02:21):
of traditional jobs. It's being used by construction workers, interior designers,
park managers. So we see these green skills that are
focused on making economic activities more sustainable being used not
just in green jobs per se, but in a whole
host of traditional jobs as well.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So how do you actually acquire green skills?
Speaker 3 (02:44):
What we are seeing, as you said, is that workers
moving into this space typically have some kind of green
experience or green skill. Often they're coming from a stem
background of science, technology, engineering, or maths background. And that's,
of course because a lot of the green economy is
(03:05):
focused on the fundamentals of maths and science. What we
need is to help workers acquire these skills. And what
that means is that we need governments, companies, and workers
all coming together to invest in and expand green upskilling
and reskilling programs so that workers are getting these skills,
(03:26):
acquiring these skills, and applying these skills across all industries
across the country.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Hey, Sue, give you an idea. You know, I love
you know LinkedIn. There is so much data and information
that I'm sure you guys see on a regular basis,
on a daily basis, So when it comes to green
jobs in general, I'm curious. Can you give me an
idea of how many jobs that are posted or that
you see, or that you see talked about or people
(03:54):
with profiles, how much is actually somehow connected to the
green economy.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
What we see is that the green economy, so the
green renewable energy economy, that is growing very, very significantly.
So we have seen that renewable energy sector grow its
share of workers over twenty six percent in over the
twenty six countries that we've studied for this particular report
(04:26):
over the past number of years. So growth there is
very very strong, very sustained, and we fully expect that
to continue. There is then the rest of the economy,
and that is also a space that needs to transition
to net zero. And what we see there, in fact,
is that the vast, vast majority of green skills showing
(04:48):
up out there are concentrated in those sectors everything from
construction to utilities, to manufacturing to retail. That's where we
see these green skills popping up. But that's also where
we see the skills shortage. Right. We continue to see
companies in every sector and in every country in the
(05:09):
world at a disadvantage when it comes to being able
to recruit the skills that they need to power this transition.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Well, you talk about a disadvantage, and we mentioned earlier
the green ceiling, why is it that women also have
an issue also in this particular corner of the market
when it comes to this kind of gender skills gap.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah, you're absolutely right. We see a very significant gender
gap opening up when it comes to this transition, and
just as worrying, we're actually seeing that gap grow over
the past number of years. We look at when it
is that workers are transitioning into these kind of roles,
(05:49):
and one of the drivers for this gap is that often,
as I said, workers are coming from a stem from science, technology,
engineering and maths background, and women has been well done
documented are often on the back foot and are there
a low representation when in those careers. Then we're seeing
that flow through to these green jobs. And the second
(06:11):
piece goes back to the green economy, those green renewable
energy economy that you spoke to, and they're once again
women are on the back foot and have historically been
very strongly underrepresented in those kind of industries. So there's
a big gap to be made up there as well.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Wait, so help me out. So is it just a
case of women are not getting the education in the skills,
or is it they're not learning on the job. What
is it that is creating that gap? Does it start
with education? And not enough women still in STEM, which
we talk a lot about here at Bloomberg.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
That's certainly part of the driver that workers with the
background and STEM are finding it much easier to transition
into these roles, and therefore women who have a low
representation in those kind of backgrounds, in turn, are finding
it more difficult to transition into the green economy. But
it's also exactly as you say, it comes back to
(07:05):
this green skills issues, both for men and for women.
We have got to start investing in these reskilling and
up skilling programs so that we're equipping both men and
women with these in demand green skills so that we
can plug this gap and get to grip with this
mismatch in green skills that's out there and growing all
(07:25):
the time.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
One thing I want to ask you, Sue, I do
wonder STEM, stems and demand. Right, we talk about every
company is a technology company, right, They've got data, they've
got to parsit, they've got you know, a lot of
technological systems that they've got to maintain. But having said that,
does the green industry not pay as well as maybe
a worker that goes to Silicon Valley or a big
tech company or a big financial firm.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
What we see very clearly is that workers with green
skills are getting hired at a higher rate than workers
who don't. So all the indications are that acquiring these
green skills are going to be very good for your
future career, for your future employability, and of course it's
for the planet.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
But my point is that they're getting what they need
is a STEM background, right. A STEM background is also
what is desired by almost every company, right because they're
technology companies. They need data people, they need people who
understand math technology. So I'm just wondering, are the workers
that are needed for the green economy getting rude to
(08:27):
go elsewhere where they are getting they're making more money.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Basically, there is certainly challenges in attracting talent into this space,
but I think what we're increasingly seeing are these growing
opportunities in this space. Right, This huge demand is out
there growing all the time, and we will increasingly see
workers taking up these opportunities as companies go out to
(08:51):
find this talent and develop and nurture it in these industries.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
It just sounds like demand is certainly out there, whether
it's in certainly the green world and the greene como
me Hey, Sue Duke, thank you so much, Vice president
of Global Public Policy and Economic graph at LinkedIn, joining
us on Zoom from Dublin, Ireland. This, of course is
COP twenty eight is underway. We're gonna have a little
bit more conversations. I think you know STEM in general, right,
just so in demand.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
It is, especially when you're thinking about technology, the growth
and then the type of jobs that feed into it.
But it's interesting when she talked about how not enough
women in STELL and how that translates when you are
looking at this green ceiling she's talking about.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I heard it before
You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and
Tim Stenebek on Bloomberg Radio. We're going to turn our
attention to COP twenty eight as ENVO envoys representing more
than one hundred and ninety nations are gathering in Dubai
this week for the UN's annual Climate Change Conference. The
summit did get underway today and just among those issues
(00:20):
green hiring. I didn't know, but yeah, I guess it
makes sense.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
This is a thing, Carol.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Right, businesses are hiring, are using green hiring to recruit
hire environmentally friendly employees, Companies looking to seek initiatives to
transform sustainability and climate change. And I guess they want
a certain type of worker.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
That's true. And there's another issue emerging in this and
it's called green ceiling, Carols. So where nine to ten
women lack a single green skill or green work experience
according to some data from LinkedIn. So even the women
are joining the green talent ranks at a faster rate
than men, progress isn't as close enough when it comes
(01:02):
to the gender in these skills.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
For story we've heard before, all right, So joining us
now is some depth on the subject to Sue Duke.
She's vice president of Global public Policy and Economic graph
over at LinkedIn. She does us on Zoom from Dublin, Ireland.
I'm so great to have you here with us, Sue,
how are you and talk to us a little bit
about green skills and green hiring.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
It's great to be here. Thank you so much for
having me. Workers going green and jobs going green has
been a very consistent and growing trend on our platform,
and over the past year, even while hiring in the
broader economy has slowed down, we've continued to see that
trend speed right up, as workers with green skills are
(01:46):
in demand and being hired at a much higher rate
than workers who don't.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Can you tell me what green skills are? Though? Go
take a step back for me, because I'm like, what
is Why are those different than your skills in general?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Great question. A green skill is a skill that's either
taking pollution out of the environment or conserving natural resources.
So think of a skill like sustainable design. That's a
great example. Sustainable design is a skill that's being used
across a whole host of green jobs, but it's also
a skill that we see showing off in a host
(02:21):
of traditional jobs. It's being used by construction workers, interior designers,
park managers. So we see these green skills that are
focused on making economic activities more sustainable being used not
just in green jobs per se, but in a whole
host of traditional jobs as well.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So how do you actually acquire green skills?
Speaker 3 (02:44):
What we are seeing, as you said, is that workers
moving into this space typically have some kind of green
experience or green skill. Often they're coming from a stem
background of science, technology, engineering, or maths background. And that's,
of course because a lot of the green economy is
(03:05):
focused on the fundamentals of maths and science. What we
need is to help workers acquire these skills. And what
that means is that we need governments, companies, and workers
all coming together to invest in and expand green upskilling
and reskilling programs so that workers are getting these skills,
(03:26):
acquiring these skills, and applying these skills across all industries
across the country.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Hey, Sue, give you an idea. You know, I love
you know LinkedIn. There is so much data and information
that I'm sure you guys see on a regular basis,
on a daily basis, So when it comes to green
jobs in general, I'm curious. Can you give me an
idea of how many jobs that are posted or that
you see, or that you see talked about or people
(03:54):
with profiles, how much is actually somehow connected to the
green economy.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
What we see is that the green economy, so the
green renewable energy economy, that is growing very, very significantly.
So we have seen that renewable energy sector grow its
share of workers over twenty six percent in over the
twenty six countries that we've studied for this particular report
(04:26):
over the past number of years. So growth there is
very very strong, very sustained, and we fully expect that
to continue. There is then the rest of the economy,
and that is also a space that needs to transition
to net zero. And what we see there, in fact,
is that the vast, vast majority of green skills showing
(04:48):
up out there are concentrated in those sectors everything from
construction to utilities, to manufacturing to retail. That's where we
see these green skills popping up. But that's also where
we see the skills shortage. Right. We continue to see
companies in every sector and in every country in the
(05:09):
world at a disadvantage when it comes to being able
to recruit the skills that they need to power this transition.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Well, you talk about a disadvantage, and we mentioned earlier
the green ceiling, why is it that women also have
an issue also in this particular corner of the market
when it comes to this kind of gender skills gap.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah, you're absolutely right. We see a very significant gender
gap opening up when it comes to this transition, and
just as worrying, we're actually seeing that gap grow over
the past number of years. We look at when it
is that workers are transitioning into these kind of roles,
(05:49):
and one of the drivers for this gap is that often,
as I said, workers are coming from a stem from science, technology,
engineering and maths background, and women has been well done
documented are often on the back foot and are there
a low representation when in those careers. Then we're seeing
that flow through to these green jobs. And the second
(06:11):
piece goes back to the green economy, those green renewable
energy economy that you spoke to, and they're once again
women are on the back foot and have historically been
very strongly underrepresented in those kind of industries. So there's
a big gap to be made up there as well.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Wait, so help me out. So is it just a
case of women are not getting the education in the skills,
or is it they're not learning on the job. What
is it that is creating that gap? Does it start
with education? And not enough women still in STEM, which
we talk a lot about here at Bloomberg.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
That's certainly part of the driver that workers with the
background and STEM are finding it much easier to transition
into these roles, and therefore women who have a low
representation in those kind of backgrounds, in turn, are finding
it more difficult to transition into the green economy. But
it's also exactly as you say, it comes back to
(07:05):
this green skills issues, both for men and for women.
We have got to start investing in these reskilling and
up skilling programs so that we're equipping both men and
women with these in demand green skills so that we
can plug this gap and get to grip with this
mismatch in green skills that's out there and growing all
(07:25):
the time.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
One thing I want to ask you, Sue, I do
wonder STEM, stems and demand. Right, we talk about every
company is a technology company, right, They've got data, they've
got to parsit, they've got you know, a lot of
technological systems that they've got to maintain. But having said that,
does the green industry not pay as well as maybe
a worker that goes to Silicon Valley or a big
tech company or a big financial firm.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
What we see very clearly is that workers with green
skills are getting hired at a higher rate than workers
who don't. So all the indications are that acquiring these
green skills are going to be very good for your
future career, for your future employability, and of course it's
for the planet.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
But my point is that they're getting what they need
is a STEM background, right. A STEM background is also
what is desired by almost every company, right because they're
technology companies. They need data people, they need people who
understand math technology. So I'm just wondering, are the workers
that are needed for the green economy getting rude to
(08:27):
go elsewhere where they are getting they're making more money.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Basically, there is certainly challenges in attracting talent into this space,
but I think what we're increasingly seeing are these growing
opportunities in this space. Right, This huge demand is out
there growing all the time, and we will increasingly see
workers taking up these opportunities as companies go out to
(08:51):
find this talent and develop and nurture it in these industries.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
It just sounds like demand is certainly out there, whether
it's in certainly the green world and the greene como
me Hey, Sue Duke, thank you so much, Vice president
of Global Public Policy and Economic graph at LinkedIn, joining
us on Zoom from Dublin, Ireland. This, of course is
COP twenty eight is underway. We're gonna have a little
bit more conversations. I think you know STEM in general, right,
just so in demand.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
It is, especially when you're thinking about technology, the growth
and then the type of jobs that feed into it.
But it's interesting when she talked about how not enough
women in STELL and how that translates when you are
looking at this green ceiling she's talking about.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I heard it before
Hosts And Creators
Tim Stenovec
Carol Massar
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!