March 24, 2025 • 35 mins
Watch Carol and Tim LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF.
Bloomberg News Senior White House Correspondent Josh Wingrove discusses President Donald Trump poised to be more targeted than the barrage of tariffs he has occasionally threatened, aides and allies say, a potential relief for markets gripped by anxiety about an all-out tariff war.
Trump is preparing a “Liberation Day” tariff announcement on April 2, unveiling so-called reciprocal tariffs he sees as retribution for tariffs and other barriers from other countries, including longtime US allies. While the announcement would remain a very significant expansion of US tariffs, it’s shaping up as more focused than the sprawling, fully global effort Trump has otherwise mused about, officials familiar with the matter say.
Trump will announce widespread reciprocal tariffs on nations or blocs but is set to exclude some, and — as of now — the administration is not planning separate, sectoral-specific tariffs to be unveiled at the same event, as Trump had once teased, officials said.
Marina Khaustova, COO of Crystal Intelligence, provides insights into the overlooked regions facilitating crypto-based sanctions evasion. NYU Medical Center Physician Dr. Sue Decotiis looks at the science behind trending weight loss trends. And we Drive to the Close with Sarah Ponczek, Financial Advisor at UBS Private Wealth Management. Hosts: Carol Massar and Tim Stenovec. Producer: Paul Brennan.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
This is Bloomberg Business Week Insight from the reporters and
editors that bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus
global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week
Podcast with Carol Masser and Tim Stenovek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Check your calendars, Mark your calendars.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
We're just about one week away from what President Trump
calls a Liberation Day tariff announcement, unveiling so called reciprocal
tariffs he sees as retribution for tariffs and other barriers
from other countries. This is including some of those longtime
US allies.
Speaker 5 (00:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (00:43):
Well, the announcement would remain a very significant expansion of
US tariffs. It is shaping up as more focused than
the sprawling, fully global effort that Trump has otherwise mused about.
This is according to people familiar with the matter.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Meantime, just about ninety minutes or so ago, at a
White House Cabinet meetia being President, Trump also says he
will be announcing tariffs on cars very shortly and on
pharmaceuticals at some point in the not too distant future.
Those time parameters were his words directly let's get more
on the president's plans. We head to our Bloomberg News
Washington DC bureau and to Bloomberg News senior White House
(01:17):
correspondent Josh Wingrove. Josh, thank you for being with us.
We know it's super busy just trying to keep track
of all of the tariff news. President Trump talks about
liberation day, What exactly does he mean liberation from what
he thinks.
Speaker 7 (01:31):
The US is being ripped off and that the tariffs
put in US exports by other countries exceed those, you know,
the ones that are in place for the US for
those countries to sell here. And in a lot of
cases he's right, there is an imbalance of export or
of tariff levels. But you know a lot of independent
economists would say they're just simply a function of being
the world's biggest economy, a consumer driven economy. So that's
(01:54):
why you don't have a lot of those mainstream sort
of economists on board with this. But the whole question
has been you know, what is he going to do?
And so if you're having trouble tracking the follow the
ball on this one, I hear you join the club.
Those stories of a couple of days ago that you
alluded to. You know, that story is that we think
that the plan coming on April second, as of now,
(02:15):
is taking shape as a narrower plan than he's mused
about in the past, chiefly because he's long since sort
of moved off the plan for a global tariff, and
now we'll do these reciprocal tariffs, but not necessarily in
every country, and that the plan as of now does
not firmly include, as we report a couple of days ago,
those sectoral tariffs. Now, as you note, we're told today
a couple of things. White is official telling us today
(02:37):
that sectoral tariffs remain on the table, and Trump, of
course himself alluding to a couple of them, autos and pharmaceuticals,
not really saying the timeframe, and he's kind of been
conflating autos and reciprocals as well. So these are a
lot of tea leaves to read. Tariffs are coming. The
exact sequencing, the scale of them, and on what day
(02:58):
and whether they're broken into batches remains unclear, but the
White House is obviously grappling with how wide to go.
There are internal discussions around that. Ceah Steve Myron telling
Slay Emosen on Bloomberg Television in the last hour that
those discussions are ongoing. So it's all TVD.
Speaker 6 (03:14):
Well, what is We know it's all TBD, and we
know that, you know, Liberation Day, as the President calls it,
is just about a little over a week out at
this point. But what, Josh do we know about his
thinking and why maybe he's making this more targeted push
than he previously announced.
Speaker 7 (03:35):
The implication is, and we don't know for sure, but
you know, markets have been reacting poorly to not only
the tariff threat and the specter of even more tariffs,
but the uncertainty around it, the whipsaw effect. Right He imposed,
for instance, those tariffs on Canada and Mexico, then clawed
them heavily back temporarily, I'd ad you know, a couple
of days later. What happens to those remains very much
(03:57):
in the air. That's the third leg of the stool,
those fent null related tariffs. Remember, of course, he already
has tariffs in place on China that twenty percent rate.
Whether that's adjusted or added to by the reciprocal rate
that presumably will include China to some extent, we don't know.
But right now Trump himself is an avowed believer of tariffs.
(04:17):
Markets have been sort of betting that he would use
it more as a negotiating tool than a firm policy outcome.
I think it's pretty clear that Donald Trump wants tariffs
a big part of the equation, in part because they
want to book the revenue from it, as they have
these talks on Capitol Hill towards a reconciliation package to
extend those Trump tax cuts and enact other tax cuts
that he wants. So Trump wants to shift the revenue
(04:38):
base partially to tariffs. He thinks that sounds better. He
thinks he can sell it better. He thinks it prevents
or prevents sort of industries from moving away and can
help rekindle things like the auto sector and steel industry.
The industry groups themselves are just much much more mixed,
very nervous about this. Remember, of course, many American manufacturers,
for instance, rely on important materials as part of their
(04:59):
own supply chains. They'll be hit by this as well
if these start going pretty widespread. And of course, the
one thing we don't know is we just don't know
what the number is going to be, right Like, if
he comes out and says five percent or ten percent,
you know, versus a twenty five on a bunch of countries, right,
that's going to be such a big difference. We just
have no indication right now what that sort of reciprocal
(05:19):
number will be. But he's talked about sort of bigger
numbers when he has he's about it. For instance, he's
talked about a twenty percent viat tax in Europe that
he's going to count as a tariff. Well, if he
counts that dollar for dollar and we start looking at
that twenty five percent or something like that in Europe,
that's that's a big number. But we just simply don't know.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I mean, well we ever know the math, Josh?
Speaker 4 (05:37):
And the only reason I ask is, as you note
in your article, you know, what the president does around
tariffs in particular, policy in general can be so fluid,
So like, will we ever really know the math about
tariffs versus tax revenue? I mean, obviously tax revenue would
be something passed through Congress and they'll be rules and stuff.
But when it comes to tariffs, I mean, he can
impose more pull back like it's hard.
Speaker 7 (05:58):
Right totally, And they're making these numbers up essentially, right,
like they're counting things that are terrorists as well as
non tariff barriers. So there's an eye of the beholder
factor to this. Whatever Trump decides to count in his math,
they're going to count. So I think that's important to
sort of keep in mind. He's also made clear that
he can roll these things back, so you know, we
(06:18):
saw that twice now with the Mexicans and Canadians, once
a one month deferral and then another one a sort
of clawback for a month. And so there's also the
potential that some of these things could be enacted or
announced on the second maybe enacted immediately and then rolled
back potentially if other countries respond with lowering tariffs of
their own, or we could have an announcement where they're
announced but not immediately implemented, and then people can negotiate
(06:42):
presumably in that interim period. You know, it's just we
don't know. But that long leg time factor we have
been there before was stealing aluminum and then resolved as
they went in as scheduled. No one got an exemption,
So people should not hold their breath necessarily. That a
long implementation means that there's a window for some grand bargain.
Speaker 6 (06:59):
Are there certain geographic regions that are more likely to
be rolled back or could be more temporary. I mean
Mexico in Canada the off ramp Josh for this is
related to fentanyl. The other tariffs that the President has
announced don't necessarily have those off ramps.
Speaker 7 (07:15):
Yeah. I think he wants countries to announce the lowering
of their own tariffs, and we'll see whether they do that.
Mexico has taken a much more sort of muted approach
in their negotiations with that. There's been sort of positive
signs that the administration likes that they've got a new
prime minister in Canada. Of course, yesterday called a general
election that could lead to yet another new prime minister
in Canada in a month's time. So I think that
(07:35):
you know TVD on that one. Whether the Europeans announced
some sort of terror production deal in the EU, I
think really remains the case. He keeps talking about the EU,
but the countries that are really sort of on him
are countries that trade a lot with the US, that
have goods deficits in trade, or that the US as
a trade deficit of goods. That's an important one because
(07:56):
he doesn't tend to count services trade. It's only goods
trade typically that he count. And so by definition, if
you're hitting the people that you have big trade relationships with,
you're hitting the countries that you tend to be on
better terms with. Usually. Of course, there's big exceptions to that,
chiefly China. But that's what's sort of rattling things right
now is the ones that seem to be in the
line of fire right include many allies like Canada, like
(08:17):
the EU, like the Japanese, like the South Koreans.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Josh one last question and just about thirty seconds here,
but the White Houses argue that tariffs will make the
US more competitive a tract for an investment. We've seen
some announcements from global companies around that pledges of money
to be spent in the US. Pledges mean exactly what
it's promises, but not necessarily reality. I mean, does tariffs
lead to more investment into a country just quickly?
Speaker 7 (08:42):
So far, there have been announcements of investment that you
could link to the threat of tariffs. Whether those investments
materialize remains to be seen, and of course the other
side of that coin also remains to be seen. In
other words, companies might announce their coming, but other ones
might not be able to survive the tariffs and they
have to shop.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
All right, good stuff.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Obviously one of our big stories, if not our big story.
Certainly the markets are watching today. Josh, thank you so much,
Josh wein Grove. He has senior White House correspondent Bloomberg
News there in our DC bureau.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen
on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app,
or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
At the beginning of the year, our Boomberg Opinions team
featured a column and Tim noted crypto could go rogue.
At twenty twenty five, again it was a bunch of
opinion writers like weighing in. They noted that when Donald
Trump returned to the White House, which of course we
know he did, digital currencies may either go mainstream or
till they could be brought down by a cast of villain.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
We haven't seen him brought down yet. Our next guest
company provides tools for ferreting out crypto related crimes. Joining
us as Marianna Maria Haustova, chief operating officer at the
Blockchain Analytics from Crystal Intelligence. She joins us from Dubai. Marina,
good to have you on the program this afternoon. What
are you seeing at Crystal Intelligence when it comes to analytics,
(10:07):
who's using the platform and who in your view, is
using crypto for illicit purposes?
Speaker 8 (10:14):
Oh, thank you so much, heirs for having me today.
I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 5 (10:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (10:19):
Well, our customers are coming from two sides, from financial
institutions and institutions care about what kind of assets do
they accept as payments, so for compliance teams, and another
cohort of our customers are governmental bodies and law enforcement
agencies around the world, who, of course fight crime. And
when we talk about who uses that, of course, right now,
(10:43):
crypt steel stays as one of the avenues, you know.
So one of the methods for money lounder is to
try to hide money, and especially for those type of
criminals who are trying to attack or hack particular financial institutions,
steal their crypto funds and then try to go away
with them. So yeah, this is the usual case that
(11:04):
we're doing with.
Speaker 6 (11:04):
Well, whatever I bring up to crypto folks that you know,
the one criticism of cryptocurrency is that it can be
used for illicted purposes. They always push back against me
and say, hey, criminals have been using cash since cash
was around for money laundering for illicit purposes. This is
no different. It's actually more easy to track crypto because
(11:28):
of the blockchain. Depending on what we're talking about. We
should note not all crypto is the same. But in
your view, how do you take that criticism?
Speaker 8 (11:39):
Well, to me, cryptocurrency is transparent and vie DeVault and
cash is not so much. So that's why I'm here
in this industry. And yeah, that's what we've seen for many,
many years. Basically, the blockchain technology enables us to track
through all the movements to understand, you know, what actors
are involved in the particular transactions. So to me, the
(12:01):
transparency that we're bringing is just something incomparable to what
is possible to achieve through traditional financial methods. And yeah,
a lot of possibilities. We are, of course have to
compete to the with the bad actress because they're also
like very inventive. We work twenty for seven on like
combating crime, and they work twenty for seven trying to
(12:21):
you know, outrace us.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
You know, Marina, we have definitely talked about and covered
a lot here at Bloomberg. You know, crypto crimes or
crypto related crimes. What are the most common types of
crypto related crimes and who happens to do them the most?
Speaker 6 (12:35):
I mean, what if Carol were to do a crime,
what crime would you recommend for Carol to do?
Speaker 1 (12:41):
I'm just.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
I think hypothetical.
Speaker 8 (12:46):
Yeah, we can take the biggest heighst that happened recently,
the bigger cryptocurrency exchange was hacked and the billions was
still and the big, big team and we expect that
these team is very much connected with North Korea, has
been actually working on these cases to make it happen
(13:06):
for many many months until they found the right moment
for that. So then what we see is a huge
team trying to launder these funds. So they are constantly
trying to find locations through which these money can be digitalized, right,
can be moved around so that they don't get frozen
(13:27):
by financial institutions following regulations and having an ability, you know,
to stop this fund or free this funds. So for
the last like two or three weeks that we are
actually tracking this particular case along with the rest of
the industry. Yeah, it has been a very very yeah,
a very dramatic case, taking a lot of resources from us,
(13:48):
And yeah, I don't think it's the last case of
such kind that we're going to see. So a lot
of work for us to do and a lot more
actually yet to come, and we don't know yet, you
know what kind of new trends are there in development
because changes so fast and the regulations are not so
fast to define what actually, you know, where actually everyone
(14:12):
should look at at this particular moment, We're.
Speaker 6 (14:15):
Gonna have to leave it there. Marina Hastova, chief operating
officer at the blockchain analytics firm Crystal Intelligence.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast. Listen live each
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Play and the Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.
You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our
flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 6 (14:41):
News in the World of Weight Loss Today, Carol Masser
no one nor This has agreed to pay United Laboratories
International Holdings as much as two billion dollars for next
gen OBCD drug. It's the Danish of ozembic maker's latest
move to refill its pipeline of experimental treatments. Also last week,
Eli Lilly again selling it's blockbuster weight loss and diabetes
(15:02):
drug Munjaro in India. It's a country that has the
world's third largest number of obese people.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
We continue to see this marketplace grow expand, and we
continue to see each of these major drug players look
for their next offering. When it comes to GLP one.
We do talk about these weight loss drugs an awful lot,
especially from a business perspective. Investors have really sent shares
of these companies higher than lower. There's some been some volatility,
(15:28):
certainly over the past couple of years. Doctor Sue Dakotis
is a New York based physician, a Board certified medical internist,
and a weight loss specialist. She is an attending physician
at NYU Medical Center, joining us right here in New
York City.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Doctor Dakotas, good to have you here on BusinessWeek.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
This is something we are We've been covering NonStop, to
be quite honest, over the last two years.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
We have a reporter that's devoted to it.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
To really understand the offerings, the nuances between the different drugs,
and the expansion as we continue to see new offerings
come out. Tell us about from your perspective what you've
seen over the last couple of years in terms of
the uptick in the usage and whether or not it
really is a significant change when it comes to treating
weight loss and actually making people healthier in the longer term.
Speaker 9 (16:15):
Well, in my practice in New York City, I have
had tremendous results in my patient population with using these
new GLP one drugs, and I've used just about all
of the ones that are available, and I'm really excited
about the new drugs that are coming out. So, as
you know, there's something called Cagrisima that Nova Nordisk is
going to come out with, which is a new drug
(16:37):
called cagrilinotide that they are combining with the ozepic. The
semi glue tide and reddititruetide is coming out from Lily
and that actually is a three receptor drug. So what
we see is that these drugs get more sophisticated and
affect more receptors, and I think more patients are going
to have good results. The problems that we have is
(16:59):
semiglue tied in the beginning before we had access to
Manjarro trezepetide, is that many very overweight patients hit the wall,
meaning they couldn't lose weight after a certain period of time,
and that was very frustrating. And we found that we're trezepetite,
being that we're hitting a second receptor, patients actually lost
more fat and weight loss continued. And I look forward
(17:19):
to that with some of the new drugs that we have,
so I think we're going to be able to reach
larger numbers of patients. But what I always hear is
so many people are saying these are lifetime drugs, meaning
you have to be on this for a lifetime. I
really disagree. And my practice in New York City, I've
been able to get most of my patients off these
drugs if they're not diabetics. And I think a lot
(17:41):
of times we're missing the point with these drugs. People
know that they're appetite suppressants. They also know that they're
great to stabilize insulin and that they're great to reverse
insulin resistance, and that's all they're thinking about, and then
the person loses weight and then they go off the
drugs sometimes abruptly or they stay on it forever. What
I do in my practice is I use a body
(18:03):
composition skit. Okay, so I'm closely monitoring people's body fat
and that's really the key. I think if we can
get that body fat down into this sweet spot, I
think that's where we get the long term health effects
that everyone is talking about. So that's where we're getting
the huge anti inflammatory effect. That's where we're having the
(18:24):
appetite regulatory system really being rebooted on a permanent basis,
so that person doesn't crave the foods they used to crave,
and they.
Speaker 8 (18:33):
Have a much.
Speaker 9 (18:35):
They have a lesser appetite long term, it's really really important.
Speaker 6 (18:39):
Are you seeing this doctor in your office? Combined with
other methods of losing weight, is important that your patients
also remain active or get active.
Speaker 9 (18:51):
Shot enough well, everyone, we always start out with them.
We know our patients well, taking a really good history.
Whatever you're eating, it's been what is your lifestyle like
and being practicing in New York City. Many patients are
pretty sophisticated, you know, they already have a pretty good lifestyle.
They may not come into the office very very obese.
(19:14):
They may be barely overweight, or their BMI, which you
know is a heightened weight parameter, maybe normal, but their
body fat is higher than they'd like it to be.
And as they get older, you know, maybe their menopausal,
they're getting into middle age, they find that their body
has changed. They don't feel as good, They're clothes fit differently,
they don't get as much out of exercise that they
(19:36):
used to. So then we really we really help those
people reach an optimal state of health by getting body
fat down. But yes, of course diet and exercise is important.
But when you're insulin resistant, when you have hormonal problems,
there are other genetic and environmental issues that we're hearing
about so much now, aren't we all these environmental things
that were affecting our metabolism so many people you're already
(20:00):
hearing to a good lifestyle. I just need that ex
for help.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
I'm getting hungry, That's what I'm gonna say.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
I thought I sastomic and I'm like, I'm gurgling over here,
and I'm kind of hungry.
Speaker 5 (20:11):
Now.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
What I want to ask you, though, is I've seen
people who get on it lose a lot of weight,
but they also lose a lot of muscle mass, and
I'm kind of amazed by that. I've seen them where
they their legs are very thin, like all their muscle
is gone, which can't be a good thing.
Speaker 9 (20:27):
Well, it gets back to that question that i'm you know,
the issue here is what is their body fat? Is
anybody monitoring that? So if the patient is not monitored carefully,
so they're not really given diatritic nutritional support because as
you know, this can these medications can really turn your
appetite off, so sometimes you don't feel like eating anything,
So we have to watch that carefully. Also, hydration is key.
(20:50):
If people are not really well hydrated, they wind up
burning muscle, you know, because the body is kind of
protection and you're burning fat, you're losing a lot of water,
so the body protects you from so it assumes that
you're getting dehydrated. This could be very dangerous and then
it can switch to burning muscle as a last resort,
which is not a good thing. Not of my patients
of lost muscle because I'm watching it, Yeah, very careful,
(21:13):
so by weighing them and they're drinking a lot of water.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
As someone who's been practicing for a while, how do
you think about this medicine? I think there's some that think, wow,
is it just too good to be true? We kind
of joke with our reporter who covers it, like, is
this the drug that's going to, you know, kind of
cover everything that ails us or fix everything that ails us?
(21:36):
Or is it too early to know if there's going
to be some kind of complications down the road from
taking it.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
Now.
Speaker 9 (21:43):
That's a very good question. I mean, I've been using
these drugs for about twelve years now, because you know,
before ozepic, you know, made its big splash, there were
other drugs that we used in the same family that
weren't as effective. These drugs are peptides, and what peptides
are are basically simple chains acids, So I think that
there as far as the pharmacologic structure of the drug,
(22:06):
it's simpler than aspirin. So I think that the body
knows how the body. These are not complicated drugs in
their structure, so therefore it's easy for the body to
break them down. And we use peptides for a lot
of things in anti aging medicine. I think they have
a very high safety profile. But what concerns me is
that so many people are accessing the wrong kind of care,
(22:27):
you know. They're going on these online platforms, you know,
and really just like having a meeting like we're having
right now. They're not getting seen by the physician there,
may not be in contact with the position at all,
and if they are, it's probably not a weight loss position.
They're not getting weighed by any matter or certainly not
a body composition scale. So those, I think are the
(22:48):
patients that are not having great results, and so many
people are resorting to these online platforms and even Lily
Now and No Honors. I understand they're going to have
a place where somebody can get the drug directly from them.
So they'll probably have a consult with a PA or
a doctor via zoom maybe once every couple of months,
(23:09):
and that's what they call getting medical care.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
So that's where I think we're going to have problems.
Speaker 6 (23:13):
It doesn't sound like you're a fan of that. Hey,
we'll have a couple of minutes left, so I want
to make sure to get in some last questions here.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
Oh sure.
Speaker 6 (23:19):
Back in October, RFK Junior, who is leading the Department
of Health and Human Services, He says that delivering healthy
food He said this in October to the American public
could quote solve the obesity and diabetic diabetes crisis for
a fraction of the cost of obesity drugs. My understanding
is he's since said different things about the GLP ones,
but in general he's not a huge fan and thinks
(23:41):
the stuff could be solved through diet and exercise.
Speaker 7 (23:43):
How do you view that.
Speaker 9 (23:45):
I think that's incorrect. I mean, I think if you
look at people that are markedly obese across the country,
certainly food and lack of exercise has something to.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
Do with it.
Speaker 9 (23:55):
And especially for future generations, If the young children today
and children who will be born, if they're exposed to
a really healthy food supply, I think that's going to
be great. But for the young adults, adults and above
who are obese, I don't think that just eating healthy
is going to be the answer. Now, these drugs are expensive.
So most patients that I see have tried diet exercise.
(24:17):
You know, they've tried every keto and paleo and a
vegan diet. And I think sometimes insulin resistance is more
than just the food you eat. There are other chemicals
in the environment, genetics, epigenetics, hormones. All of these things
can affect the way your body body metabolizes nutrients. So
(24:38):
I don't think it's that simple.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
I don't think that he.
Speaker 9 (24:40):
Would be able to reverse obesity by just giving somebody
a healthy diet.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
Just got about forty five seconds left here, doctor Dakotas.
I'm just curious how what percentage of your patients who
look to lose weight use the GLP one drugs?
Speaker 3 (24:55):
And are GLP one drugs.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
For everyone who are looking to lose weight? And again,
just got about thirty forty seconds.
Speaker 9 (25:03):
Now, it's not for everyone. I mean, if somebody has
a history of an eating disorder, or they have a
lot of thyroid issues, panphreatic issues in the family, very
sensitive gi track, if they're not that overweight or their
body fat is not that high, they really should try
a clean diet first. And it has to be assessed
is this person really eating cleanly? Do they know what
(25:23):
they're doing? What kind of exercise are they doing. Sometimes
if they're doing too much cardio and their insulin resistant,
that can cause them to actually gain weight. What they
might need to do is do more resistance training. So
every patient's an individual, But I think for the most
part of someone cannot lose it with diet and exercise,
and I've documented that their body fat is high relative
(25:44):
to their weight, and I think they they would probably
benefit from a golp one.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
All right, good to lead it there, Thanks so much
for joining us.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Doctor su dakotis New York based physician, a Board certified
medical internist, a weight loss specialist, attending physician at NYU
Medical Center.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Joining us right here in New York City. Interesting stuff.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
I'll about you. Let me drive.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Oh no, no, no no, this is not a toy, honey,
please gravels.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Let's wait.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
I want to try.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
It's a good question.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
This is the drive to the clothes that plunks to
me to think.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Well, driver Jon and Don on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Right, TikTok.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
Everybody just got about eighteen minutes to go until we
wrap up the Monday trade. You know, just I would
build maloney kind of off air, just fundamentally technically, an
interesting day where futures were up a lot. We came
up out of the gate with some gains, and then
we just continued to move higher.
Speaker 6 (26:46):
That's what you talked about when I went to get
a snack.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Among other things, but I was like, what are you thinking?
Speaker 4 (26:50):
You know, like where we're going, and that from a
technical basis, that's a pretty strong side.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
We'll see what Sarah Ponzek has to say, though.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
What what do you think we brought?
Speaker 5 (27:01):
I was hungry.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
I was hungry, Like she's talking about JLP one drugs,
and all I could think about was like, I want
to eat food.
Speaker 6 (27:06):
Yeah, I hope that's the whole idea of the JLP one.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
I know, I know, I know.
Speaker 6 (27:10):
All right, let's get into it with Sarah pon Sick.
She's financial advisor at UBS Private Wealth Management. She joins
us from Florida. Sarah, how are you.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
I'm great, good to see or I guess hear from you,
guys sing you're so considerate bringing Carol banana?
Speaker 3 (27:24):
What are you coming up to me bananas?
Speaker 1 (27:26):
We're actually we're actually hoping to come up in the
next month or so. I will let you guys know
when I will be up there, and hopefully I can
make a ship to the office.
Speaker 6 (27:34):
Let us know if you need help finding the place.
I know it's your old stomping ground, so you don't
need any direction.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
I could still find it with my eyes closed.
Speaker 6 (27:41):
Okay, good.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
Well in the meantime.
Speaker 6 (27:44):
In the meantime, maybe we'll get some clarity on tariffs
before then, because April second, it's supposed to be Liberation Day.
You are thinking a lot about tariffs when it comes
to the uncertainty that is out there, though today's trade
seems like it has a lot of certainty in.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
It, Sarah, today's trade has been very forceful and strong
to the upside. So it's nice to be on with
the two of you on a day that's actually green
and happy for stocks.
Speaker 5 (28:09):
But at the end of the day, tariff talk has
been all over the place.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
The conversation has been very fluid, and although we have
gotten multiple multiple calls and emails from clients over the
past few weeks just asking what is going on, we've
been stressing just this that the story or the narrative
and the policy at the end of the day can
really change on a dime. And that's what we're seeing today,
(28:35):
and we're seeing the reaction in markets, and what I
think is so interesting and I think important is to
just put this all in perspective because if you look
at the correction that we saw in the stock market
at the end of.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
The day, it was very normal, and frankly we were
overdue for one.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
We had two straight years in which the market was
up more than twenty percent, and even in the last
two years. A lot of people forget corrections in each
of the last two years. Last year, the market was
down eight percent at its an intra year low, and
yet ended the year twenty five percent higher. In twenty
twenty three, we also experienced the ten percent drawn down,
(29:13):
yet the sm P five hundred was also at more
than twenty percent this year. I think it just feels,
and I think the technical term is it's more in
your face. You can't you can't avoid it. It's in
the news.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
We're hearing it every day.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
We see it in tweets, we see it on truth
social wherever you go to see Trump's tweets. But it's
just more in your face now, which makes it harder
to ignore as an investor.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
But you know, Sarah to that point, yes, more in
your face, and perhaps not exactly like the first term
of President Trump. Having said that, we're having questions where
people are wondering, you know, American exceptionalism, you know no more,
you know, questioning folks whether or not the US is
uninvestible and saying, yeah, maybe so because of different policies
(29:59):
and pulling back kind of from the global market trade potentially.
And I guess time will tell ultimately how much sticks
and what this means for the US economy. But I
look at you know, the WI function really well on
the Bloomberg and the eurostocks fifty is still up almost
eleven percent this year. I look at the S and
P five hundred, it's down two percent. So money has
(30:22):
been going overseas. Are your clients saying, wait a minute,
you know, I got some concerns about really the US
market until we see whether or not these policies, you know,
kind of settle down. So give us some color around that,
if you would.
Speaker 5 (30:37):
Money has been going overseas. There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
As you mentioned, Carol, if you look at how the
different global indices have performed your date, you look at
China indicies, you look at emerging markets, you look at
developed markets internationally, they're all out performing the United States.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
But is it uninvestible?
Speaker 1 (30:55):
I think that is much too harsh a term to
use to describe the unit United States. And we're still
very optimistic on US equities. Sure, we've seen a big
hit to tech, which has really, at the end of
the day, deriven the self that we've seen. I think
a lot of people would be surprised if you looked
at the sector breakdown of the S and P five
(31:15):
hundred this year, only two sectors are actually down. The
rest of them are positive. It's just that those sectors
have the heaviest weights in the in depth right, so
I do think. Look, it does highlight the importance of
global diversification. We've always kept exposure to international in our
client's portfolios.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
We are now discussing possibly increasing that exposure a bit.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
But at the end of the day, if we look
at where we still want to be invested over a
longer period of time, it's still a lot of these
US techniques.
Speaker 6 (31:46):
Why Why is that, though, Sarah, Why do you want
to stand Why?
Speaker 5 (31:50):
What do you say?
Speaker 7 (31:50):
Why is that?
Speaker 6 (31:51):
Why do you want to stay invested in US tech
companies right now? We talked to Peter Attwater last week,
who has some serious concerns about the US market.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
We still when we look at future growth projections, and
if you look at the amount of money that is
being spent on artificial intelligence and productions, for what that
is going to mean for revenues in the future. It's
still very strong and we've seen I mean some of
these tech names, we've seen some pretty high double digit
corrections in.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
Some of these names.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
So we're looking at this more as a potential buying opportunity.
Even yes, you know, we could see more volatility, things
could get a bit worse.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
I don't think this is it. I don't think Okay,
we had a strong day, that's it. We're on the up.
We're not going to see any volatility anymore.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
But if I look at, you know, the United States
growth potential versus that of you know, China or Europe
or emerging markets over the next five years, for US,
US is still the place.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
We want to be, and it is largely because of
that sector makeup.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
But have you been advising clients to kind of be
buying all the way back to mid February when we
started to see the S and P go down.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
No.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
So what's interesting is it actually seemed to me as
those sentiment was the worst when the market was only
down three percent or so.
Speaker 5 (33:05):
Because headlines were just flying.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
We got a lot of calls from clients that you know,
in those early weeks, and we kept saying, you know,
we're due for our correction, this is likely going to
get worse. Don't do anything quite yet. When we started
to get towards the ten percent correction mark on the
s and P. Five hundred, that's when we started to
stay to clients who have a lot of cash on
the sidelines, have been looking to nibble, say, look, you
don't need to do this all at once, but you
(33:28):
can start nibbling here, start.
Speaker 5 (33:30):
Buying in, start buying the dip.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
And what's really interesting is that if you look at
the data, you look at the numbers, if you look
at corrections that occur within a bull market, and I
know that's a caveat because I'm saying that the correction's
not going to turn into a twenty plus percent correction.
The reason I'm saying that, though, is bear markets are
pretty uncommon. They happen on average once every seven years,
(33:53):
and we just witnessed one three years ago, so that
would be very soon to witness another full blown bear market.
But if you look at corrections that don't then delve
into a twenty plus percent correction, they tend to be
good buying opportunities.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
So if you're an investor who bought in after stocks
had fallen ten.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Percent on average, you know the next three, six and
twelve month returns are eight, thirteen and nineteen percent.
Speaker 5 (34:17):
It's not too bad, to be fair.
Speaker 6 (34:19):
We're only down about six percent from all time highs
on the S and P five hundred right now after
today's rally.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
It's not terrible. I mean, considering the run up that
we've seen the last couple of years shift and we
saw a week ago. The tone definitely feels different today. Hey, Sarah,
thank you so much. Great to talk with you. Sarah Ponzek.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
She's financial advisor EBS Private Wealth Management out there in Florida.
Speaker 8 (34:38):
This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday
afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com,
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Speaker 5 (35:03):
Mm HM
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
This is Bloomberg Business Week Insight from the reporters and
editors that bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus
global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week
Podcast with Carol Masser and Tim Stenovek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Check your calendars, Mark your calendars.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
We're just about one week away from what President Trump
calls a Liberation Day tariff announcement, unveiling so called reciprocal
tariffs he sees as retribution for tariffs and other barriers
from other countries. This is including some of those longtime
US allies.
Speaker 5 (00:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (00:43):
Well, the announcement would remain a very significant expansion of
US tariffs. It is shaping up as more focused than
the sprawling, fully global effort that Trump has otherwise mused about.
This is according to people familiar with the matter.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Meantime, just about ninety minutes or so ago, at a
White House Cabinet meetia being President, Trump also says he
will be announcing tariffs on cars very shortly and on
pharmaceuticals at some point in the not too distant future.
Those time parameters were his words directly let's get more
on the president's plans. We head to our Bloomberg News
Washington DC bureau and to Bloomberg News senior White House
(01:17):
correspondent Josh Wingrove. Josh, thank you for being with us.
We know it's super busy just trying to keep track
of all of the tariff news. President Trump talks about
liberation day, What exactly does he mean liberation from what
he thinks.
Speaker 7 (01:31):
The US is being ripped off and that the tariffs
put in US exports by other countries exceed those, you know,
the ones that are in place for the US for
those countries to sell here. And in a lot of
cases he's right, there is an imbalance of export or
of tariff levels. But you know a lot of independent
economists would say they're just simply a function of being
the world's biggest economy, a consumer driven economy. So that's
(01:54):
why you don't have a lot of those mainstream sort
of economists on board with this. But the whole question
has been you know, what is he going to do?
And so if you're having trouble tracking the follow the
ball on this one, I hear you join the club.
Those stories of a couple of days ago that you
alluded to. You know, that story is that we think
that the plan coming on April second, as of now,
(02:15):
is taking shape as a narrower plan than he's mused
about in the past, chiefly because he's long since sort
of moved off the plan for a global tariff, and
now we'll do these reciprocal tariffs, but not necessarily in
every country, and that the plan as of now does
not firmly include, as we report a couple of days ago,
those sectoral tariffs. Now, as you note, we're told today
a couple of things. White is official telling us today
(02:37):
that sectoral tariffs remain on the table, and Trump, of
course himself alluding to a couple of them, autos and pharmaceuticals,
not really saying the timeframe, and he's kind of been
conflating autos and reciprocals as well. So these are a
lot of tea leaves to read. Tariffs are coming. The
exact sequencing, the scale of them, and on what day
(02:58):
and whether they're broken into batches remains unclear, but the
White House is obviously grappling with how wide to go.
There are internal discussions around that. Ceah Steve Myron telling
Slay Emosen on Bloomberg Television in the last hour that
those discussions are ongoing. So it's all TVD.
Speaker 6 (03:14):
Well, what is We know it's all TBD, and we
know that, you know, Liberation Day, as the President calls it,
is just about a little over a week out at
this point. But what, Josh do we know about his
thinking and why maybe he's making this more targeted push
than he previously announced.
Speaker 7 (03:35):
The implication is, and we don't know for sure, but
you know, markets have been reacting poorly to not only
the tariff threat and the specter of even more tariffs,
but the uncertainty around it, the whipsaw effect. Right He imposed,
for instance, those tariffs on Canada and Mexico, then clawed
them heavily back temporarily, I'd ad you know, a couple
of days later. What happens to those remains very much
(03:57):
in the air. That's the third leg of the stool,
those fent null related tariffs. Remember, of course, he already
has tariffs in place on China that twenty percent rate.
Whether that's adjusted or added to by the reciprocal rate
that presumably will include China to some extent, we don't know.
But right now Trump himself is an avowed believer of tariffs.
(04:17):
Markets have been sort of betting that he would use
it more as a negotiating tool than a firm policy outcome.
I think it's pretty clear that Donald Trump wants tariffs
a big part of the equation, in part because they
want to book the revenue from it, as they have
these talks on Capitol Hill towards a reconciliation package to
extend those Trump tax cuts and enact other tax cuts
that he wants. So Trump wants to shift the revenue
(04:38):
base partially to tariffs. He thinks that sounds better. He
thinks he can sell it better. He thinks it prevents
or prevents sort of industries from moving away and can
help rekindle things like the auto sector and steel industry.
The industry groups themselves are just much much more mixed,
very nervous about this. Remember, of course, many American manufacturers,
for instance, rely on important materials as part of their
(04:59):
own supply chains. They'll be hit by this as well
if these start going pretty widespread. And of course, the
one thing we don't know is we just don't know
what the number is going to be, right Like, if
he comes out and says five percent or ten percent,
you know, versus a twenty five on a bunch of countries, right,
that's going to be such a big difference. We just
have no indication right now what that sort of reciprocal
(05:19):
number will be. But he's talked about sort of bigger
numbers when he has he's about it. For instance, he's
talked about a twenty percent viat tax in Europe that
he's going to count as a tariff. Well, if he
counts that dollar for dollar and we start looking at
that twenty five percent or something like that in Europe,
that's that's a big number. But we just simply don't know.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I mean, well we ever know the math, Josh?
Speaker 4 (05:37):
And the only reason I ask is, as you note
in your article, you know, what the president does around
tariffs in particular, policy in general can be so fluid,
So like, will we ever really know the math about
tariffs versus tax revenue? I mean, obviously tax revenue would
be something passed through Congress and they'll be rules and stuff.
But when it comes to tariffs, I mean, he can
impose more pull back like it's hard.
Speaker 7 (05:58):
Right totally, And they're making these numbers up essentially, right,
like they're counting things that are terrorists as well as
non tariff barriers. So there's an eye of the beholder
factor to this. Whatever Trump decides to count in his math,
they're going to count. So I think that's important to
sort of keep in mind. He's also made clear that
he can roll these things back, so you know, we
(06:18):
saw that twice now with the Mexicans and Canadians, once
a one month deferral and then another one a sort
of clawback for a month. And so there's also the
potential that some of these things could be enacted or
announced on the second maybe enacted immediately and then rolled
back potentially if other countries respond with lowering tariffs of
their own, or we could have an announcement where they're
announced but not immediately implemented, and then people can negotiate
(06:42):
presumably in that interim period. You know, it's just we
don't know. But that long leg time factor we have
been there before was stealing aluminum and then resolved as
they went in as scheduled. No one got an exemption,
So people should not hold their breath necessarily. That a
long implementation means that there's a window for some grand bargain.
Speaker 6 (06:59):
Are there certain geographic regions that are more likely to
be rolled back or could be more temporary. I mean
Mexico in Canada the off ramp Josh for this is
related to fentanyl. The other tariffs that the President has
announced don't necessarily have those off ramps.
Speaker 7 (07:15):
Yeah. I think he wants countries to announce the lowering
of their own tariffs, and we'll see whether they do that.
Mexico has taken a much more sort of muted approach
in their negotiations with that. There's been sort of positive
signs that the administration likes that they've got a new
prime minister in Canada. Of course, yesterday called a general
election that could lead to yet another new prime minister
in Canada in a month's time. So I think that
(07:35):
you know TVD on that one. Whether the Europeans announced
some sort of terror production deal in the EU, I
think really remains the case. He keeps talking about the EU,
but the countries that are really sort of on him
are countries that trade a lot with the US, that
have goods deficits in trade, or that the US as
a trade deficit of goods. That's an important one because
(07:56):
he doesn't tend to count services trade. It's only goods
trade typically that he count. And so by definition, if
you're hitting the people that you have big trade relationships with,
you're hitting the countries that you tend to be on
better terms with. Usually. Of course, there's big exceptions to that,
chiefly China. But that's what's sort of rattling things right
now is the ones that seem to be in the
line of fire right include many allies like Canada, like
(08:17):
the EU, like the Japanese, like the South Koreans.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Josh one last question and just about thirty seconds here,
but the White Houses argue that tariffs will make the
US more competitive a tract for an investment. We've seen
some announcements from global companies around that pledges of money
to be spent in the US. Pledges mean exactly what
it's promises, but not necessarily reality. I mean, does tariffs
lead to more investment into a country just quickly?
Speaker 7 (08:42):
So far, there have been announcements of investment that you
could link to the threat of tariffs. Whether those investments
materialize remains to be seen, and of course the other
side of that coin also remains to be seen. In
other words, companies might announce their coming, but other ones
might not be able to survive the tariffs and they
have to shop.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
All right, good stuff.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Obviously one of our big stories, if not our big story.
Certainly the markets are watching today. Josh, thank you so much,
Josh wein Grove. He has senior White House correspondent Bloomberg
News there in our DC bureau.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen
on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app,
or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
At the beginning of the year, our Boomberg Opinions team
featured a column and Tim noted crypto could go rogue.
At twenty twenty five, again it was a bunch of
opinion writers like weighing in. They noted that when Donald
Trump returned to the White House, which of course we
know he did, digital currencies may either go mainstream or
till they could be brought down by a cast of villain.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
We haven't seen him brought down yet. Our next guest
company provides tools for ferreting out crypto related crimes. Joining
us as Marianna Maria Haustova, chief operating officer at the
Blockchain Analytics from Crystal Intelligence. She joins us from Dubai. Marina,
good to have you on the program this afternoon. What
are you seeing at Crystal Intelligence when it comes to analytics,
(10:07):
who's using the platform and who in your view, is
using crypto for illicit purposes?
Speaker 8 (10:14):
Oh, thank you so much, heirs for having me today.
I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 5 (10:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (10:19):
Well, our customers are coming from two sides, from financial
institutions and institutions care about what kind of assets do
they accept as payments, so for compliance teams, and another
cohort of our customers are governmental bodies and law enforcement
agencies around the world, who, of course fight crime. And
when we talk about who uses that, of course, right now,
(10:43):
crypt steel stays as one of the avenues, you know.
So one of the methods for money lounder is to
try to hide money, and especially for those type of
criminals who are trying to attack or hack particular financial institutions,
steal their crypto funds and then try to go away
with them. So yeah, this is the usual case that
(11:04):
we're doing with.
Speaker 6 (11:04):
Well, whatever I bring up to crypto folks that you know,
the one criticism of cryptocurrency is that it can be
used for illicted purposes. They always push back against me
and say, hey, criminals have been using cash since cash
was around for money laundering for illicit purposes. This is
no different. It's actually more easy to track crypto because
(11:28):
of the blockchain. Depending on what we're talking about. We
should note not all crypto is the same. But in
your view, how do you take that criticism?
Speaker 8 (11:39):
Well, to me, cryptocurrency is transparent and vie DeVault and
cash is not so much. So that's why I'm here
in this industry. And yeah, that's what we've seen for many,
many years. Basically, the blockchain technology enables us to track
through all the movements to understand, you know, what actors
are involved in the particular transactions. So to me, the
(12:01):
transparency that we're bringing is just something incomparable to what
is possible to achieve through traditional financial methods. And yeah,
a lot of possibilities. We are, of course have to
compete to the with the bad actress because they're also
like very inventive. We work twenty for seven on like
combating crime, and they work twenty for seven trying to
(12:21):
you know, outrace us.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
You know, Marina, we have definitely talked about and covered
a lot here at Bloomberg. You know, crypto crimes or
crypto related crimes. What are the most common types of
crypto related crimes and who happens to do them the most?
Speaker 6 (12:35):
I mean, what if Carol were to do a crime,
what crime would you recommend for Carol to do?
Speaker 1 (12:41):
I'm just.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
I think hypothetical.
Speaker 8 (12:46):
Yeah, we can take the biggest heighst that happened recently,
the bigger cryptocurrency exchange was hacked and the billions was
still and the big, big team and we expect that
these team is very much connected with North Korea, has
been actually working on these cases to make it happen
(13:06):
for many many months until they found the right moment
for that. So then what we see is a huge
team trying to launder these funds. So they are constantly
trying to find locations through which these money can be digitalized, right,
can be moved around so that they don't get frozen
(13:27):
by financial institutions following regulations and having an ability, you know,
to stop this fund or free this funds. So for
the last like two or three weeks that we are
actually tracking this particular case along with the rest of
the industry. Yeah, it has been a very very yeah,
a very dramatic case, taking a lot of resources from us,
(13:48):
And yeah, I don't think it's the last case of
such kind that we're going to see. So a lot
of work for us to do and a lot more
actually yet to come, and we don't know yet, you
know what kind of new trends are there in development
because changes so fast and the regulations are not so
fast to define what actually, you know, where actually everyone
(14:12):
should look at at this particular moment, We're.
Speaker 6 (14:15):
Gonna have to leave it there. Marina Hastova, chief operating
officer at the blockchain analytics firm Crystal Intelligence.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast. Listen live each
weekday starting at two pm Eastern up on Apple car
Play and the Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.
You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our
flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 6 (14:41):
News in the World of Weight Loss Today, Carol Masser
no one nor This has agreed to pay United Laboratories
International Holdings as much as two billion dollars for next
gen OBCD drug. It's the Danish of ozembic maker's latest
move to refill its pipeline of experimental treatments. Also last week,
Eli Lilly again selling it's blockbuster weight loss and diabetes
(15:02):
drug Munjaro in India. It's a country that has the
world's third largest number of obese people.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
We continue to see this marketplace grow expand, and we
continue to see each of these major drug players look
for their next offering. When it comes to GLP one.
We do talk about these weight loss drugs an awful lot,
especially from a business perspective. Investors have really sent shares
of these companies higher than lower. There's some been some volatility,
(15:28):
certainly over the past couple of years. Doctor Sue Dakotis
is a New York based physician, a Board certified medical internist,
and a weight loss specialist. She is an attending physician
at NYU Medical Center, joining us right here in New
York City.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Doctor Dakotas, good to have you here on BusinessWeek.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
This is something we are We've been covering NonStop, to
be quite honest, over the last two years.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
We have a reporter that's devoted to it.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
To really understand the offerings, the nuances between the different drugs,
and the expansion as we continue to see new offerings
come out. Tell us about from your perspective what you've
seen over the last couple of years in terms of
the uptick in the usage and whether or not it
really is a significant change when it comes to treating
weight loss and actually making people healthier in the longer term.
Speaker 9 (16:15):
Well, in my practice in New York City, I have
had tremendous results in my patient population with using these
new GLP one drugs, and I've used just about all
of the ones that are available, and I'm really excited
about the new drugs that are coming out. So, as
you know, there's something called Cagrisima that Nova Nordisk is
going to come out with, which is a new drug
(16:37):
called cagrilinotide that they are combining with the ozepic. The
semi glue tide and reddititruetide is coming out from Lily
and that actually is a three receptor drug. So what
we see is that these drugs get more sophisticated and
affect more receptors, and I think more patients are going
to have good results. The problems that we have is
(16:59):
semiglue tied in the beginning before we had access to
Manjarro trezepetide, is that many very overweight patients hit the wall,
meaning they couldn't lose weight after a certain period of time,
and that was very frustrating. And we found that we're trezepetite,
being that we're hitting a second receptor, patients actually lost
more fat and weight loss continued. And I look forward
(17:19):
to that with some of the new drugs that we have,
so I think we're going to be able to reach
larger numbers of patients. But what I always hear is
so many people are saying these are lifetime drugs, meaning
you have to be on this for a lifetime. I
really disagree. And my practice in New York City, I've
been able to get most of my patients off these
drugs if they're not diabetics. And I think a lot
(17:41):
of times we're missing the point with these drugs. People
know that they're appetite suppressants. They also know that they're
great to stabilize insulin and that they're great to reverse
insulin resistance, and that's all they're thinking about, and then
the person loses weight and then they go off the
drugs sometimes abruptly or they stay on it forever. What
I do in my practice is I use a body
(18:03):
composition skit. Okay, so I'm closely monitoring people's body fat
and that's really the key. I think if we can
get that body fat down into this sweet spot, I
think that's where we get the long term health effects
that everyone is talking about. So that's where we're getting
the huge anti inflammatory effect. That's where we're having the
(18:24):
appetite regulatory system really being rebooted on a permanent basis,
so that person doesn't crave the foods they used to crave,
and they.
Speaker 8 (18:33):
Have a much.
Speaker 9 (18:35):
They have a lesser appetite long term, it's really really important.
Speaker 6 (18:39):
Are you seeing this doctor in your office? Combined with
other methods of losing weight, is important that your patients
also remain active or get active.
Speaker 9 (18:51):
Shot enough well, everyone, we always start out with them.
We know our patients well, taking a really good history.
Whatever you're eating, it's been what is your lifestyle like
and being practicing in New York City. Many patients are
pretty sophisticated, you know, they already have a pretty good lifestyle.
They may not come into the office very very obese.
(19:14):
They may be barely overweight, or their BMI, which you
know is a heightened weight parameter, maybe normal, but their
body fat is higher than they'd like it to be.
And as they get older, you know, maybe their menopausal,
they're getting into middle age, they find that their body
has changed. They don't feel as good, They're clothes fit differently,
they don't get as much out of exercise that they
(19:36):
used to. So then we really we really help those
people reach an optimal state of health by getting body
fat down. But yes, of course diet and exercise is important.
But when you're insulin resistant, when you have hormonal problems,
there are other genetic and environmental issues that we're hearing
about so much now, aren't we all these environmental things
that were affecting our metabolism so many people you're already
(20:00):
hearing to a good lifestyle. I just need that ex
for help.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
I'm getting hungry, That's what I'm gonna say.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
I thought I sastomic and I'm like, I'm gurgling over here,
and I'm kind of hungry.
Speaker 5 (20:11):
Now.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
What I want to ask you, though, is I've seen
people who get on it lose a lot of weight,
but they also lose a lot of muscle mass, and
I'm kind of amazed by that. I've seen them where
they their legs are very thin, like all their muscle
is gone, which can't be a good thing.
Speaker 9 (20:27):
Well, it gets back to that question that i'm you know,
the issue here is what is their body fat? Is
anybody monitoring that? So if the patient is not monitored carefully,
so they're not really given diatritic nutritional support because as
you know, this can these medications can really turn your
appetite off, so sometimes you don't feel like eating anything,
So we have to watch that carefully. Also, hydration is key.
(20:50):
If people are not really well hydrated, they wind up
burning muscle, you know, because the body is kind of
protection and you're burning fat, you're losing a lot of water,
so the body protects you from so it assumes that
you're getting dehydrated. This could be very dangerous and then
it can switch to burning muscle as a last resort,
which is not a good thing. Not of my patients
of lost muscle because I'm watching it, Yeah, very careful,
(21:13):
so by weighing them and they're drinking a lot of water.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
As someone who's been practicing for a while, how do
you think about this medicine? I think there's some that think, wow,
is it just too good to be true? We kind
of joke with our reporter who covers it, like, is
this the drug that's going to, you know, kind of
cover everything that ails us or fix everything that ails us?
(21:36):
Or is it too early to know if there's going
to be some kind of complications down the road from
taking it.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
Now.
Speaker 9 (21:43):
That's a very good question. I mean, I've been using
these drugs for about twelve years now, because you know,
before ozepic, you know, made its big splash, there were
other drugs that we used in the same family that
weren't as effective. These drugs are peptides, and what peptides
are are basically simple chains acids, So I think that
there as far as the pharmacologic structure of the drug,
(22:06):
it's simpler than aspirin. So I think that the body
knows how the body. These are not complicated drugs in
their structure, so therefore it's easy for the body to
break them down. And we use peptides for a lot
of things in anti aging medicine. I think they have
a very high safety profile. But what concerns me is
that so many people are accessing the wrong kind of care,
(22:27):
you know. They're going on these online platforms, you know,
and really just like having a meeting like we're having
right now. They're not getting seen by the physician there,
may not be in contact with the position at all,
and if they are, it's probably not a weight loss position.
They're not getting weighed by any matter or certainly not
a body composition scale. So those, I think are the
(22:48):
patients that are not having great results, and so many
people are resorting to these online platforms and even Lily
Now and No Honors. I understand they're going to have
a place where somebody can get the drug directly from them.
So they'll probably have a consult with a PA or
a doctor via zoom maybe once every couple of months,
(23:09):
and that's what they call getting medical care.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
So that's where I think we're going to have problems.
Speaker 6 (23:13):
It doesn't sound like you're a fan of that. Hey,
we'll have a couple of minutes left, so I want
to make sure to get in some last questions here.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
Oh sure.
Speaker 6 (23:19):
Back in October, RFK Junior, who is leading the Department
of Health and Human Services, He says that delivering healthy
food He said this in October to the American public
could quote solve the obesity and diabetic diabetes crisis for
a fraction of the cost of obesity drugs. My understanding
is he's since said different things about the GLP ones,
but in general he's not a huge fan and thinks
(23:41):
the stuff could be solved through diet and exercise.
Speaker 7 (23:43):
How do you view that.
Speaker 9 (23:45):
I think that's incorrect. I mean, I think if you
look at people that are markedly obese across the country,
certainly food and lack of exercise has something to.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
Do with it.
Speaker 9 (23:55):
And especially for future generations, If the young children today
and children who will be born, if they're exposed to
a really healthy food supply, I think that's going to
be great. But for the young adults, adults and above
who are obese, I don't think that just eating healthy
is going to be the answer. Now, these drugs are expensive.
So most patients that I see have tried diet exercise.
(24:17):
You know, they've tried every keto and paleo and a
vegan diet. And I think sometimes insulin resistance is more
than just the food you eat. There are other chemicals
in the environment, genetics, epigenetics, hormones. All of these things
can affect the way your body body metabolizes nutrients. So
(24:38):
I don't think it's that simple.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
I don't think that he.
Speaker 9 (24:40):
Would be able to reverse obesity by just giving somebody
a healthy diet.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
Just got about forty five seconds left here, doctor Dakotas.
I'm just curious how what percentage of your patients who
look to lose weight use the GLP one drugs?
Speaker 3 (24:55):
And are GLP one drugs.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
For everyone who are looking to lose weight? And again,
just got about thirty forty seconds.
Speaker 9 (25:03):
Now, it's not for everyone. I mean, if somebody has
a history of an eating disorder, or they have a
lot of thyroid issues, panphreatic issues in the family, very
sensitive gi track, if they're not that overweight or their
body fat is not that high, they really should try
a clean diet first. And it has to be assessed
is this person really eating cleanly? Do they know what
(25:23):
they're doing? What kind of exercise are they doing. Sometimes
if they're doing too much cardio and their insulin resistant,
that can cause them to actually gain weight. What they
might need to do is do more resistance training. So
every patient's an individual, But I think for the most
part of someone cannot lose it with diet and exercise,
and I've documented that their body fat is high relative
(25:44):
to their weight, and I think they they would probably
benefit from a golp one.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
All right, good to lead it there, Thanks so much
for joining us.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Doctor su dakotis New York based physician, a Board certified
medical internist, a weight loss specialist, attending physician at NYU
Medical Center.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Joining us right here in New York City. Interesting stuff.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
I'll about you. Let me drive.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Oh no, no, no no, this is not a toy, honey,
please gravels.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Let's wait.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
I want to try.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
It's a good question.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
This is the drive to the clothes that plunks to
me to think.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Well, driver Jon and Don on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Right, TikTok.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
Everybody just got about eighteen minutes to go until we
wrap up the Monday trade. You know, just I would
build maloney kind of off air, just fundamentally technically, an
interesting day where futures were up a lot. We came
up out of the gate with some gains, and then
we just continued to move higher.
Speaker 6 (26:46):
That's what you talked about when I went to get
a snack.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Among other things, but I was like, what are you thinking?
Speaker 4 (26:50):
You know, like where we're going, and that from a
technical basis, that's a pretty strong side.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
We'll see what Sarah Ponzek has to say, though.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
What what do you think we brought?
Speaker 5 (27:01):
I was hungry.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
I was hungry, Like she's talking about JLP one drugs,
and all I could think about was like, I want
to eat food.
Speaker 6 (27:06):
Yeah, I hope that's the whole idea of the JLP one.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
I know, I know, I know.
Speaker 6 (27:10):
All right, let's get into it with Sarah pon Sick.
She's financial advisor at UBS Private Wealth Management. She joins
us from Florida. Sarah, how are you.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
I'm great, good to see or I guess hear from you,
guys sing you're so considerate bringing Carol banana?
Speaker 3 (27:24):
What are you coming up to me bananas?
Speaker 1 (27:26):
We're actually we're actually hoping to come up in the
next month or so. I will let you guys know
when I will be up there, and hopefully I can
make a ship to the office.
Speaker 6 (27:34):
Let us know if you need help finding the place.
I know it's your old stomping ground, so you don't
need any direction.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
I could still find it with my eyes closed.
Speaker 6 (27:41):
Okay, good.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
Well in the meantime.
Speaker 6 (27:44):
In the meantime, maybe we'll get some clarity on tariffs
before then, because April second, it's supposed to be Liberation Day.
You are thinking a lot about tariffs when it comes
to the uncertainty that is out there, though today's trade
seems like it has a lot of certainty in.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
It, Sarah, today's trade has been very forceful and strong
to the upside. So it's nice to be on with
the two of you on a day that's actually green
and happy for stocks.
Speaker 5 (28:09):
But at the end of the day, tariff talk has
been all over the place.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
The conversation has been very fluid, and although we have
gotten multiple multiple calls and emails from clients over the
past few weeks just asking what is going on, we've
been stressing just this that the story or the narrative
and the policy at the end of the day can
really change on a dime. And that's what we're seeing today,
(28:35):
and we're seeing the reaction in markets, and what I
think is so interesting and I think important is to
just put this all in perspective because if you look
at the correction that we saw in the stock market
at the end of.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
The day, it was very normal, and frankly we were
overdue for one.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
We had two straight years in which the market was
up more than twenty percent, and even in the last
two years. A lot of people forget corrections in each
of the last two years. Last year, the market was
down eight percent at its an intra year low, and
yet ended the year twenty five percent higher. In twenty
twenty three, we also experienced the ten percent drawn down,
(29:13):
yet the sm P five hundred was also at more
than twenty percent this year. I think it just feels,
and I think the technical term is it's more in
your face. You can't you can't avoid it. It's in
the news.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
We're hearing it every day.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
We see it in tweets, we see it on truth
social wherever you go to see Trump's tweets. But it's
just more in your face now, which makes it harder
to ignore as an investor.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
But you know, Sarah to that point, yes, more in
your face, and perhaps not exactly like the first term
of President Trump. Having said that, we're having questions where
people are wondering, you know, American exceptionalism, you know no more,
you know, questioning folks whether or not the US is
uninvestible and saying, yeah, maybe so because of different policies
(29:59):
and pulling back kind of from the global market trade potentially.
And I guess time will tell ultimately how much sticks
and what this means for the US economy. But I
look at you know, the WI function really well on
the Bloomberg and the eurostocks fifty is still up almost
eleven percent this year. I look at the S and
P five hundred, it's down two percent. So money has
(30:22):
been going overseas. Are your clients saying, wait a minute,
you know, I got some concerns about really the US
market until we see whether or not these policies, you know,
kind of settle down. So give us some color around that,
if you would.
Speaker 5 (30:37):
Money has been going overseas. There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
As you mentioned, Carol, if you look at how the
different global indices have performed your date, you look at
China indicies, you look at emerging markets, you look at
developed markets internationally, they're all out performing the United States.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
But is it uninvestible?
Speaker 1 (30:55):
I think that is much too harsh a term to
use to describe the unit United States. And we're still
very optimistic on US equities. Sure, we've seen a big
hit to tech, which has really, at the end of
the day, deriven the self that we've seen. I think
a lot of people would be surprised if you looked
at the sector breakdown of the S and P five
(31:15):
hundred this year, only two sectors are actually down. The
rest of them are positive. It's just that those sectors
have the heaviest weights in the in depth right, so
I do think. Look, it does highlight the importance of
global diversification. We've always kept exposure to international in our
client's portfolios.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
We are now discussing possibly increasing that exposure a bit.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
But at the end of the day, if we look
at where we still want to be invested over a
longer period of time, it's still a lot of these
US techniques.
Speaker 6 (31:46):
Why Why is that, though, Sarah, Why do you want
to stand Why?
Speaker 5 (31:50):
What do you say?
Speaker 7 (31:50):
Why is that?
Speaker 6 (31:51):
Why do you want to stay invested in US tech
companies right now? We talked to Peter Attwater last week,
who has some serious concerns about the US market.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
We still when we look at future growth projections, and
if you look at the amount of money that is
being spent on artificial intelligence and productions, for what that
is going to mean for revenues in the future. It's
still very strong and we've seen I mean some of
these tech names, we've seen some pretty high double digit
corrections in.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
Some of these names.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
So we're looking at this more as a potential buying opportunity.
Even yes, you know, we could see more volatility, things
could get a bit worse.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
I don't think this is it. I don't think Okay,
we had a strong day, that's it. We're on the up.
We're not going to see any volatility anymore.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
But if I look at, you know, the United States
growth potential versus that of you know, China or Europe
or emerging markets over the next five years, for US,
US is still the place.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
We want to be, and it is largely because of
that sector makeup.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
But have you been advising clients to kind of be
buying all the way back to mid February when we
started to see the S and P go down.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
No.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
So what's interesting is it actually seemed to me as
those sentiment was the worst when the market was only
down three percent or so.
Speaker 5 (33:05):
Because headlines were just flying.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
We got a lot of calls from clients that you know,
in those early weeks, and we kept saying, you know,
we're due for our correction, this is likely going to
get worse. Don't do anything quite yet. When we started
to get towards the ten percent correction mark on the
s and P. Five hundred, that's when we started to
stay to clients who have a lot of cash on
the sidelines, have been looking to nibble, say, look, you
don't need to do this all at once, but you
(33:28):
can start nibbling here, start.
Speaker 5 (33:30):
Buying in, start buying the dip.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
And what's really interesting is that if you look at
the data, you look at the numbers, if you look
at corrections that occur within a bull market, and I
know that's a caveat because I'm saying that the correction's
not going to turn into a twenty plus percent correction.
The reason I'm saying that, though, is bear markets are
pretty uncommon. They happen on average once every seven years,
(33:53):
and we just witnessed one three years ago, so that
would be very soon to witness another full blown bear market.
But if you look at corrections that don't then delve
into a twenty plus percent correction, they tend to be
good buying opportunities.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
So if you're an investor who bought in after stocks
had fallen ten.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Percent on average, you know the next three, six and
twelve month returns are eight, thirteen and nineteen percent.
Speaker 5 (34:17):
It's not too bad, to be fair.
Speaker 6 (34:19):
We're only down about six percent from all time highs
on the S and P five hundred right now after
today's rally.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
It's not terrible. I mean, considering the run up that
we've seen the last couple of years shift and we
saw a week ago. The tone definitely feels different today. Hey, Sarah,
thank you so much. Great to talk with you. Sarah Ponzek.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
She's financial advisor EBS Private Wealth Management out there in Florida.
Speaker 8 (34:38):
This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
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Speaker 5 (35:03):
Mm HM
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