May 14, 2025 • 37 mins
Watch Carol and Tim LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF.
The White House said President Donald Trump had secured deals totaling more than $243.5 billion with Qatar, laying the groundwork for a bigger $1.2 trillion economic pledge with the tiny Gulf country.
“The landmark deals celebrated today will drive innovation and prosperity for generations, bolster American manufacturing and technological leadership, and put America on the path to a new Golden Age,” the White House said.
The announcement came on the second leg of Trump’s swing through the Middle East, a day after the president touted some $600 billion in investments by Saudi Arabia in US manufacturing, products and services.
Trump has focused much of his energy on the trip in securing investment dollars, while praising Gulf states for seeking a deeper partnership with the US.
Trump’s take so far has fallen short of his ambitions for an even bigger haul; the president had floated the possibility of securing $1 trillion in investment pledges from Saudi companies and on Tuesday said the two nations would work toward that goal.
Earlier Wednesday, the White House announced that Qatar Airways had inked a $96 billion plan to acquire as many as 210 Boeing Co. 787 Dreamliner and 777X aircraft. The White House cast the buy as the largest-ever widebody order and the largest-ever for the 787s.
Today's show features:
- Bloomberg News Senior Reporter Jennifer Dlouhy
- Drive to the Close with Aaron Kennon, CEO at Clear Harbor Asset Management
- Dr. Justin Schwartz, Chancellor of the University of Colorado Boulder and Bloomberg News Higher Education Finance Reporter Janet Lorin
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
This is Bloomberg business Week Daily reporting from the magazine
that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies,
and trends shaping today's complex economy, plus global business, finance
and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Weekdaily
Podcast with Carol Masser and Tim Stenebek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
In the meantime, we continue to track the President over
in the Middle East. He is in Doha, Cutter, and
he's been making some statements and there's also been some
more business deals coming down. We want to dig into
all of this over the next fourteen minutes. President Trump,
we should point out he did talk about exploring normalizing
relations with Syria after the toppling of longtime autocrat Bashar
(00:54):
Ala Sad. This is adding to a pledge to lift
sanctions against the country's new government. Let's get some content
mix on this, some thoughts on a possible deeper US
Syrian relationship with US. As Bloomberg News senior reporter Jennifer Delo,
she is traveling with the President and she joins us
from Doha at this moment. Jen, good to have you here.
A lot of ceremonies. We continue to look at the
(01:16):
live pictures out of cutter and of course we know
that the president a receiving line, a greeting line, but
getting ready to go into a Katari state dinner tell
us little bit about the day's developments, and in particular
with Syria and for those it's a complicated relationship, and
we understand why. But I'm curious about why this moment
(01:37):
in time might the President be looking to deepen ties.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
I mean, it's a good question because it's the moment,
and the reason of why it happened now is directly
related to this trip, you know, in this pivotal moment
with Syria actually kind of unfolded this morning while we
were still while the President was still in Riad, Saudi
Arabia attending a meeting of the Golf Cooperation Council, he
(02:05):
met with Siria's new president I'm at al shraw for
what was really a remarkable meeting, the first meeting between
the heads of the US and Syria since two thousand
and The meeting was essentially broker by and encouraged by
Turkey's President Erdawan as well as Saudi's Crown Prince Mohammed
bin Selman, who Trump had been you know, visiting with
(02:27):
for essentially thirty six hours at that point, or at
least a day and a half. And you know, it
was an extraordinary meeting really that came about in this
place and in this time, and his decision to pursue
normalization with Syria and to lift sanctions on Syria was
encouraged by both men.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
What do we know?
Speaker 5 (02:45):
What do we know, jen about Ahmad al Sharah, the
country's president who took place of longtime autocrat, as Carol mentioned,
Bashar Ali Sad.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
What do you know about him?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Well, I mean, he is a former militant.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
He joined Al Kaeda and IRACTI fight American troops after
the two thousand and three US invasion. He has spent
many years and really since the toppling of the Assad
regime trying to to encourage folks to believe he's you know,
turned a new leaf, he's a changed man, and really
(03:19):
arguing to the world that Siria shouldn't pay the price
for the Assad era. And that's so he's really you know,
extended this olive branch, and that's you know, obviously getting
this recognition and this endorsement essentially from Trump is pretty significant.
And I will say that the US President did outline
(03:40):
of things he expects to see from Syria, including signing
on to the Abraham Accords Israel, which is normalization with
Israel that the president has been seeking since his first term,
and some other changes really cutting off, you know, any
support for terrorism or or housing of terrorists within Syria
things like that.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Is he a different man, a different individual, who was
that former militant who joined al Qaeda? I know, I
think since then he has disavowed the terrorist group. But
I do wonder, you know, what kind of leader do
we know him to possibly be in the future. Is
it going to be a different Syria than it was
under Bashah al Assad?
Speaker 3 (04:18):
You know, I think that's a very open question, and
it's a very real one for Israel, which you know,
the backdrop for this trip that Trump is taking in
the Middle East, going of course to Saudi Arabia, then
to cutter and tomorrow heading to the United Arab Emirate
is that he's not going to Israel. Uh And certainly
(04:39):
relations with Israel have been a little bit tenser in
recent days.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
There's a sense that in Israel.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
They're feeling a little bit of the cold shoulder from
the US right now. Uh, And this move with Siria's
is one that is likely to spark fresh tensions with
Israel because they have they've they've issued these constant warnings
about Shara's govern and they've actually carried out airstrikes and
Sirias since the sides aust So you know, there's a
really a wait and see a piece to all of
(05:08):
this that you know, we will in fact have to
wait and see how this all plays out. But there's
there's definitely folks questioning this embrace.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Hey, Jen, One thing I always think about is, you know,
this is the first plan trip by President Trump overseas, right.
We know he went certainly for the Pope's funeral, but
this is the first plan trip. And I do wonder
the significance. I know this is something we Tim and
I kind of keep going back to significance of a
being the Middle East, the significance of it being Saudi Arabia,
the significance of Katar maybe not going to Israel, it's
(05:40):
not so far off the map right to stop there
on the trip. What message does that send to the
world about President Trump and his White House and their
you know, global priorities. Or is it different because fair
to say the Trump administration is a bit of a
different one. You know, it might be a bit of both.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
I mean, Trump certainly is different, and we shouldn't discount
that in this context. He is a president who values
investments and deals in the US and this trip is
a lot about investments and securing announcements of purchases and
commitments to invest in US manufacturing and buy US goods.
(06:20):
So that has been a theme throughout the trip and
one we will continue to see. So I think that's
certainly a factor here. You know, the President is also
very clearly saying that he sees the Middle East and
US allies in the Middle East as incredibly important for
both regions, both on a commercial level and in a
security level. And you know, he expressed this very clearly yesterday.
(06:44):
He gave a pretty big speech at a Saudi US
investment forum basically articulating that he wants to see cooperation
with the Middle East on commercial matters and other matters
and really cheerleaded essentially, you know, any efforts to get
away from violence and terrorism, and of course all of
this is happening as he is trying to encourage, you know,
(07:08):
peace and Gaza and a ceasefire there. You know, some
of the focus on investment maybe because you know that
progress has been slower to realize than he wants.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
All right, So good to be able to check in
with you. We know, long days there, Jen, So thank
you so much, Bloomberg News Senior reporter Jen Delohi.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily podcast. Catch us
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Speaker 5 (07:36):
I think it's fair to say that there's more news
about higher education than at any time in our lifetimes.
I think Janet Lauren would agree with that. Among the
latest headlines, Harvard University said it will free up an
extra two hundred and fifty million dollars of school money
to help pay for research during the coming year after
the Trump administration scrapped multi year federal funding and more
than two point six billion dollars. Also, we learned today
(07:57):
that university president Alan Garber will take a voluntary twenty
five percent pay cut for the academic year that starts
July first. A school spokesman as said, so that's just Harvard,
but it's fair to say schools all over are feeling
of pressure. We have with us doctor Justin Schwartz, Chancellor
of the University of Colorado, Boulder. He's also an entrepreneur,
the founder and CEO of Loopine Materials in Technology and
(08:19):
Eagle Power Technologies co founder and CTO. Also with us
is Janet Lauren, higher education finance reporter for Bloomberg News.
Janet is here in a studio. Doctor Schwartz is in Boulder.
Doctor Schwartz, I want to start with you and then
we can do a roundtable here. What are the what's
the pressure you're feeling from Washington or are you feeling
any pressure from Washington given what we've heard from the
(08:40):
Trump administration and what the Trump administration has done when
it comes to grants funding for schools all over the country.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Sure, great, Thanks.
Speaker 6 (08:51):
For having me. It's exciting to be here with you.
I think the number one pressure on us right now
is the remain the link uncertainty of everything that's going on.
You know, there's I've lost track of how many of
the f and a reduction efforts are still pending in
the courts for adjudication. Uncertainty around you know, the cancelation
(09:16):
of ongoing research grants from all sorts of different agencies
is you know, again another uncertainty. And then of course,
you know, uncertainty in terms of what will be in
next year's budget for all the different research agencies. The
uncertainty brings, you know, the anxiety, it brings the concern.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
We're trying to recruit graduate students.
Speaker 6 (09:38):
For this coming fall, and you know, many of the
disciplines that we get federal funding, particularly the STEM disciplines,
graduate students you know, are usually supported by those research grants,
and so trying to make you know, one, two, three,
four year commitments to some of the best and brightest
people from around the world is challenging when there's you know,
(09:58):
a lack of clarity in terms of what's what what
funding situations will be like and what the what the
federal commitment will be to this, you know, sixty eighty
year old partnership between Higher ed, the federal government and
industry for advancing our economy.
Speaker 7 (10:15):
So as a as a nuclear engineer, you know, you
certainly know your way around the STEM field and have
have no doubt received your own funding from federal grants.
What does this atmosphere feel like as a as a researcher,
you know, so.
Speaker 6 (10:33):
That I think there's two pieces to it as a researcher.
One is, as I pointed to, just the uncertainty. But
then there's also just that question of, you know, is
what I've been doing and committed my life to doing
valued right? Is there is does the public? Does the
government recognize that? You know, what I'm doing in my
(10:55):
research is in part to advance the research topic that
I'm working on, but also to educate students who are
going to go into the workforce, who are going to
go and create new companies, who are going to go
in advanced technologies and you know, and drive the society forward.
So I think it's a twofold piece, you know, the
(11:16):
pragmatic of how does this impact my ability to do
the research? But secondly, how am I How is what
I do as an enterprise perceived?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
You know, it's interesting, doctor Schwartz. I think about geopolitics
and the importance of what many would argue a soft power, right,
so whether it's providing aid, but what that does for
a country like the United States in terms of being
able to really have a front seat at the table
on so many different issues, and the same thing for
(11:47):
I think R and D that gets done at hospitals
gets done at academic institutions, and whether it's with you know,
private money or federal money, you know what that kind
of grants us on an innovative, disruptive world. Without it,
what's the US at risk of.
Speaker 6 (12:09):
So one of the things that I think is not
fully appreciated is the role that US Higher ed has
played through its research enterprise in attracting really the smartest
people from around the world to the United States, you know, permanently.
And this goes back decades, you know, to the early
(12:30):
days of NASA were in part successful, and we took
the world leadership over sixty years ago in part because
of the scientists that emigrated to the US after World
War Two.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Our ability to.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
Not just compete, but to really dominate in R and
D and technology development all these decades is in part
because we've not you know, when you bring in the
best and brightest from around the world, you're not only
adding the best and brightest to your enterprise, which you're
denying your competitors the best in brightness, right, so it's
a you know, it's a double win.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
And so.
Speaker 6 (13:07):
With that there's also the scientific diplomacy that comes from,
you know, being a global R and D leader.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
I think back to.
Speaker 6 (13:17):
The I think it was early mid eighties, so it
had to be early mid eighties when Reagan had the
summit with the Soviet leader, and one of the lesser
announced outcomes was actually a partnership in fusion R and
D and and that sort of enterprise you know, brings
(13:38):
together collaborations even with competing nations. So there's so many
benefits to being a leader in R and D research
at universities which are you readily open to visitors and industry,
that it's difficult to predict what the unintended consequences could be.
Speaker 7 (14:00):
So when you were here in New York recently, we
were talking about a bill in Congress that would fix
the price of college for four years, give family certainties.
And some other university presidents who are with you, we're saying, well,
that's a difficult challenge because you don't know what our
budget is. But your answer was that CU Boulder has
been doing this for many years. Could you tell us
(14:23):
how that has worked and how this all came about
from the state legislature.
Speaker 6 (14:28):
So at CU Boulder it actually started on campus, not
with the legislature. We've been doing it since twenty sixteen
for all of our undergraduate students, freshmen and transfers, and.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
For in state students.
Speaker 6 (14:43):
It also includes tuition and mandatory fees for out of
state and international students. It's only tuition, but of course
that's the biggest piece. And you know, I will say
in the last few years with you know, when inflation
is higher, it can be a little bit of a
challenge for the university, but that challenge is well worth
it because you know, we like to say that we
(15:04):
are focusing on our mission.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
First.
Speaker 6 (15:07):
Of course, we have to balance our budget and make
ends meet. But if we can do things that help
our students see that they can not only come to
Boulder but graduate from Boulder, then that's that's critical. And
it's even even with the risk of inflationary impacts, it
really actually makes good business sense. I don't think there's
(15:27):
any industry that wouldn't say repeat customers or are more
valuable than even going for new customers. And for us,
that translates to the more we can do to ensure
that a student that comes to Boulder stays at Boulder
and graduates from Boulder. You know, that really benefits our
bottom line financially more than annual toition increases across the board.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
So I think it's a great idea.
Speaker 6 (15:51):
It's the first institution I've been at that has it,
and I truly love it. I think it's nice to
be able to say you to a family, this is
what your tuition is going to be this year, next year,
or the year after and the year after that, and
for them knowing that, okay, it'll go up if they're
here more than four years, right, that's actually that extra
incentive for the student to say, yeah, maybe I should
(16:11):
make sure I get done in that four year window.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
And this is the same for in state and out
not the same tuition, but this applies for out of
state students.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
As well, national and international.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
The exception would be dual degree recipients, right, who are
charged a higher tuitions, right, and then there they're.
Speaker 6 (16:29):
Doing correct, So if they're doing like a bachelor's, master's,
then it's the higher of the rates what the majority
of our students get that benefit.
Speaker 5 (16:39):
What is the typical four year graduation rate in the
sense of, like, okay, how many people, what portion of
students it does this apply to versus those who can't
finish in four years?
Speaker 6 (16:49):
Yeah, so our four year graduation rate right now is
around sixty percent, just under our six year graduations about
seventy four percent.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
So you can see, like, if the group that took
six years did four they benefit.
Speaker 6 (17:04):
Puts us well above the national average, but well below
where I want to take us a chance.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Can I just say, we're all kind of looking at
each other and all respect, We're like that kind of
feels kind of low.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
I'm surprised.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
That's a bit of a bummer. Yeah, it's so.
Speaker 6 (17:18):
It was just for some clarity. If a student comes
to see you Bouler, spends a year or two here
and decides, you know, I'd rather go somewhere else for
whatever reason. I'm from Maryland and I'd rather be close
to home. That student may still graduate in four years,
but it would still count against us in terms of
four of you.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
How often does that happen?
Speaker 6 (17:36):
Though?
Speaker 1 (17:37):
How often does somebody start and go somewhere else?
Speaker 6 (17:40):
It's I don't have the exact number, but it's honestly
not that uncommon. And so in fact, we're working right
now to see increases year over year in the number
of students that transferred to CU Bowler. So that would
mean we'd have students that would graduate here but wouldn't
count for our four year graduation right either, because they
didn't start here. So the way's counted as based specifically
(18:01):
on starting is graduating at the exact same campus that
you start at.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
So is what holds apart from transferring to a different school,
what typically holds people back from graduating in four years?
Is it a lack of ability of courses that will
allow them to graduate? Or is it really on the
students end more so than on the university's end.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
It's a whole plethora of things.
Speaker 6 (18:23):
And then, to be honest, we're trying to understand I've
only been a bolder less than a year, and I'm
trying to Our team is digging in to try to
understand why every student who doesn't graduate in four or
six years, what was the reason. So for some of them, right,
they may come in, they're really excited. They listen to
Bloomberg News, so they want to be a business major,
(18:46):
and they get in and they realize, well, maybe I
don't want to be a business major, so they transferred
to another college and that cost them a year, right,
Or they start out like our two biggest, most excited
programs for students, most heavily demanded, our Business and then Engineering,
and a student may start in engineering and decide, you know,
I'd rather be a math major or I'd rather do physics.
(19:07):
So when they change majors, that can delay their graduation.
Some of them will take time off because they need
to raise money, right, and so financial can be a deterrent.
That's those are reasons why you see a fifteen percent
increase from the four years of the six year graduation rate,
right because a lot of the students just need that
(19:27):
extra time to figure out what it is.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
They actually want to do.
Speaker 6 (19:31):
So one of the many things that we're trying to
do to increase the graduation rate is gives students, you know,
more flexibility to find their path without a delay in
their academic progress. And just to go back to that
transfer number, we graduated about just under ten thousand students.
(19:52):
This last week at commencement, we get about twenty eight hundred.
We accept about twenty eight hundred transfer students annually. Oh wow,
so that's a big piece. So there's twenty eight hundred
students whose some other school is getting a ding and
therefore your graduation.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Rate, right even though that student is going to come
and get a degree and.
Speaker 6 (20:10):
Succeed, So that it's you know, it's one of those
lies and lies and statistics situations that you knowing the
nuance of it makes a difference.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Absolutely good to understand kind of the ebbs and float
like how it all kind of plays out, which with
doctor Justin Schwartz, Chancellor of the University of Colorado Boulder,
also with US as our own Janet Law and higher
education finance reporter right here at Bloomberg News.
Speaker 7 (20:33):
Well, one thing that I was surprised to find out
recently when I when I did a story about a
donation that encouraged students to graduate in four years, was
the national average is only fifty two percent. And we
talk about student loans.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Yes, I know, well because.
Speaker 7 (20:50):
Students I'm just doing the math and they start and
you don't get it it's because of finances and then
they drop out. And I was actually quite surprised to
hear that. But I was wondering justin if you could
talk a little bit about the strategies that you're looking
to to help students finish in four years. And certainly
(21:12):
the tuition guarantee is a financial one, but what else
can you do to help students? And of course if
they drop out, then they're carrying student loans and paying
debt on a degree that they didn't finish.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
Right, absolutely, I think the.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
We have an moral imperative to do everything we can
do to help a student achieve what they came to achieve,
because to your point, the worst outcome is leaving with
debt and no degree. It's like you go to a
car dealership, you sign the contract, but you don't actually
get a car.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
What was the point of that?
Speaker 6 (21:45):
So we look at this both from the there's the
academic piece, right, So we look at which of the
early year courses, the ones that are like you know,
the onboarding courses when they're been they're new and learning college,
which are the.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Courses that have the biggest failure rates.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
So we call the DFW's d F and withdrawal and
we see how can we put as much instruction academic
support as we can to help students succeed in those courses,
but a lot of it is outside of the academic realm.
So trying to help students, you know, find their way
(22:22):
on campus.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
What are the co curricular activities that get them excited?
Speaker 6 (22:26):
I don't have the number off the top of my head,
but there's a huge difference between the graduation rate of
students who have outside of classroom contact with faculty and
engage staff compared.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
To those that don't.
Speaker 6 (22:40):
So how do we you know, we do these things
called rats right where we are living learning communities where
we get students together in the dorms who are similar
in their degree interests, and we bring programming to them.
So we need to do the you know, find students
where they are and meet them where they are and
help them, you know, do more than just simply see
(23:01):
themselves as going to class.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
So that's a big piece.
Speaker 6 (23:05):
Another big piece is looking at where students are financially
and so making sure that students, even if they still
owe the university a little bit of money, can still
register on time right, register with everybody else, get the
classes that they need right. Don't make any short term
(23:25):
financial issues an obstacle to getting into the courses. They need,
because then you know, otherwise they're missing that window in
terms of a required course, and you know that a
semester can cost.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
You a year.
Speaker 6 (23:36):
Yeah, so we're trying to figure out all the things
like what are the obstacles and speed bumps that we've
inadvertently put in place?
Speaker 4 (23:44):
How do we get rid of those?
Speaker 5 (23:45):
There's a whole host of issues. As you mentioned, we
only have a minute or so left. And when everyone
found out we were speaking to you, everybody was saying,
you got to ask them about Dion Sanders aka coach Prime.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
What is it like being his boss?
Speaker 6 (24:00):
I will say, you know, decades ago, when I decided
to go get a PhD at MIT and Engineering, being
Dion's boss was the first thing.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
On my mind. Yeah, I love it. So here's the
thing about Dion. One.
Speaker 6 (24:15):
It means that at no point in time will I
ever be the most recognizable person on campus.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
And that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Speaker 6 (24:24):
It also means that I have a visible partner on
campus who talks to students bluntly about having a successful life.
Right that you know he talks to his players not
just about succeeding in football, but that most of them
won't go to the NFL, and he works with them
for their career trajectories across all disciplines. I have a
(24:46):
partner who will who has in the past gone publicly
and talked about his own mental health challenges right, and
mental health challenges are one of those things that keep
graduation right down right, So normalizing the ability to talk
about those challenges is tremendous. I have a partner who
is willing to stand up after every win and tell
his team celebrate, but no means no, and he'll say
(25:10):
it over over again. No means no until they say
it back, and does not tolerate any form of the
kind of behaviors that some institutions have seen through athletics.
So I've got a partner in driving all the right
messages that we want our campus to hear across all
of our students, who also talks about the importance of
(25:32):
excellence right. We know that as a campus we can't
do everything, but everything we do we want to do
at that highest level. It's fantastic having Diana on campus,
and you know, I'm glad he's going to be here
for a while.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Justin one last quick question, Jess got about thirty forty
seconds here we're Bloomberg. You know, we think about financial
aspects of everything, including sports and collegiate sports. There's a
lot going on. What does it mean to have him
there when it comes to school finances and fundraises and
sports programs and name image like this just quickly.
Speaker 6 (26:07):
So his impact on our campus in our community is huge.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
Right.
Speaker 6 (26:13):
We went from not having many people in the stadium
to selling out.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
You know. The estimate is that the six home games.
Speaker 6 (26:21):
We had in twenty twenty four brought about one hundred
and forty six million dollars to the city of Boulder
in the surrounding region. That's enormous. I don't know this
as I'm speculating when I say this, but demonstrating that
we can be a city that supports events that have
Dion Sanders may have influenced the question are we a
(26:41):
city that can support having the Sundance Film Festival? Right,
it's that visibility of as a community that's huge.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
We've also seen, you know, increases in.
Speaker 6 (26:51):
Our national ability to recruit students into all majors. He's
having so many different levels of impact, it's just been fantastic. Yeah,
we were the only team in the country last season
to be on every one of the national networks and
the flagship ESPN station, which is a school first. I mean,
(27:11):
think about some of the names in college football, but
we were the only one.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Fascinating good stuff. Really enjoyed talking with you, and I
hope you'll come back soon. Doctor Justin Schwartz chancellor at
the University of Colorado, Boulder, joining us from Boulder, Colorado.
He's also a found in ce of Lupine Materials and Technology.
Great to cover a lot of ground with him.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live
each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple car
Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You
can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship
New York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Revc' about you.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
Let me drive?
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Oh no, no, no no, this is not a toy, honight.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Please, I'll do the driving levels. Wait, I want to drive.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
It's a good question, drives.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
This is the drive to the clothes palms. Some musing, Well,
run it on on Bloomberg Radio. All right, TikTok, everybody,
Just about eighteen minutes to go until we wrap up
the trade on this Wednesday. Kind of a weird little trade,
bouncing around a little bit, but call it flat on
the S and P as you just heard from Charlie,
down about ninety one points there on the Dow Jones
Industrial Average if you're keeping a watch on that index,
(28:32):
and the Nasdaq one hundred holding on to just a
slight gain up about seventy four points, but definitely again
all of these averages off their best levels of the session.
We've seen tech out reform today, but it does feel
like a little bit of a breather on this Wednesday.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
I want to get on over to Aaron Kennedy, CEO
at Clear Harbor Asset Management. He joins us from Stamford, Connecticut.
Right now, Clear Harbor has got about two billion dollars
in assets under management. Okay, we're going to talk about
the markets in just a second. Erin but is the
trail I was in your neck of the woods over
the weekend and on Monday and last week as well,
(29:06):
and it was just a constant parking lot on ninety five.
Is it always like that in Stanford?
Speaker 8 (29:11):
It's challenging, you know, there's a bottleneck. There's some construction
right now, so it's worse than usual. But you know,
this is a rather challenging card or for sure.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Yeah, my parents drove to LaGuardia this morning. Carol yea
from Fairfield two and a half hours to get to LaGuardia.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
I can imagine it gets messy right erin like it's
just kind of rough.
Speaker 8 (29:33):
Yeah, well it's maybe maybe some more infrastructure spending in
the years.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
Ahead will help, you know, I was thinking about infrastructure
a lot when I was going back and forth over
the weekend.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Hey, I doe the boring Company and eline doesn't sound
so crazy, right, You would take some little tunnels where
you could just kind of do a straight shot.
Speaker 5 (29:51):
All I'm going to say is I did a trip
to Norway seven years ago or something, and you don't
need the boring company and make amazing tunnels. They've had
the tunnels that they have through the belly.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Oh it's amazing.
Speaker 5 (30:01):
Yeah, no comparison to what happens here in the US. Okay,
we're going to get to everything that's on our radar.
When it comes to the kind of blistering rally that
we've seen from those April lows, Eric Wiener was on
with US earlier. He called the reprieve between the US
and China a postponement of the trade war.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Would you agree, Well, we'll have to see.
Speaker 8 (30:23):
I mean, I think that there's good reason to believe
that President Trump is poised to take out a little
more of a scalpel as it pertains to what's going
on with China negotiations. And what I mean by that
is that there is a real national security concern with
regard to some aspects of our trade arrangements. We have
rare earths, ninety percent plus of which are being refined
(30:46):
in China. We have ninety percent of our ibuprofen being
manufactured in China. And you know, we have semiconductors that
are being manufactured outside the United States. And Taiwan, Yes,
Taiwan's an ally, but you know, China has discussed the
possibility of invading Taiwan. And so I think there may
(31:07):
be a middle road here. I suspect that President Trump
will want to maintain tariffs across major economies of ten
percent or so, and I suspect that China will be
probably a recipient of higher higher tariffs than that, perhaps
fifteen percent, with these carve outs that I mentioned around
national security, so certainly much higher than they were just
(31:30):
just a few weeks ago, and we'll have to see
it all sorts out.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
So do you feel like the worst is over for
the equity markets or not so fast that we are
indeed in a bear market to get ready for some
more downside at some point.
Speaker 8 (31:42):
I mean, I'm a bit cautious here. We've had a
major rally. If you look at the MAG seven, they've
rallied from that April eighth sort of low about twenty
eight percent. There's still down five percent this year though
you take the S and P five hundreds rallied about
eighteen percent off that April eighth low, and it's actually about.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
Flat on the year.
Speaker 8 (32:02):
And we yes Q one earnings were somewhat robust, but
there is a lot of pull forward. We think maybe
some deceleration in the back half of the year, but
still positive earnings going forward. Multiples are not cheap, they're
still sort of top death style in many cases, but
the broader market is more fair value. If you look
like equal weight to SMP training at sixteen times. There
(32:24):
are lots of opportunities we still think may exist there
but the uncertainty around terrifs hasn't gone away, and for
good reason.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
We still have this.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
All in place.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Right and as we've been talking and continue to talk
with folks like yourself and some of our internals as
well as other external guests, I mean this idea that
the data points that we continue to moll over report
out don't reflect any of the tariff news. And so
you know, get ready perhaps for all of that to
play out as we get into the summer, and you
(32:56):
do wonder what kind of implications that might have for
valuations or how investors we'll look at the markets.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
I think that's right.
Speaker 8 (33:02):
I think that's why time is of the essence. I
think that's why Corporate America has put so much pressure
in the White House too. If they're going to backpedal,
to backpedal, if they're going to take out a scalpel
instead of a mallet on the tariff issue, become a
little more detailed and refined around it, do it sooner
rather than later. Let's not create unnecessary harm to the economy.
I think there's an understanding that's been sort of permeating
(33:24):
up into the Oval Office around that, and so I'm
somewhat hopeful that we're going to continue to move. We're
still going to make you know, some some progress in
a positive way. We've done it with the UK, it
looks like we may be in the process of doing
it with China. He used, X multi country it's going
to be more challenging. But you know, I think that
there there's this is this is considered progress. And if
(33:47):
you read the Art of the Deal by Donald Trump,
he's sort of all about shock and awe and creating
a level of confusion, even as Secretary Bessant said this
as much within the last week that this is sort
of his approach. Yeah, to see how this all all
plays out.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
All right, So Aaron, I have to ask you, have
you read the Art of the Deal? Have you did
you read it years ago? Or I do wonder if
everybody is like pulling that book out again and saying
we got to take a look at it.
Speaker 8 (34:12):
Yeah, I'm sort of pulling it out now to be honest,
for the first time. And the parallels are sort of striking,
And so you know, that's why I bring this to
your attention.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Love it. What else do we know about from the
Art of the Deal?
Speaker 8 (34:25):
Carol, I know, yeah, well, you know, I don't have
much more for you on that, but you know, certainly
the president's trying to nudge monetary policy officials to cut
rates and he and he's doing that, you know, quite
quite overtly. But what's interesting to see there is that
(34:46):
the Fed is sort of face is sort of facing
a dilemma of not knowing whether or not these tariffs stay,
whether or not growth becomes a challenge, if terrors stay,
or whether or not pricing and inflation becomes more of
a challenge. But if you look at the front end
of the bond mark get Carol and Tim with twos
trading right around two percent, fifty basis points below the
FED funds rate, one could argue that the market's still
(35:08):
pricing in some cuts this year, just not as many
as they were just a week ago or just a
few days ago, and perhaps starting to cut later this
year rather than mid this year. So that's sort of
a you know, sort of a thought that you know,
Trump's nudging of, or maybe not so nudging, you know,
verbally berating the FED chair may not result in much
activity for several months.
Speaker 5 (35:29):
Hey, Aaron, before we let you go, just thirty seconds
on gold for much of the year. It's been new
all time high after new all time high, down about
seven point four percent from those highs earlier this month.
What say you about gold right now?
Speaker 8 (35:42):
Yeah, We're still constructive over the long run as it
pertains to gold. We think that gold is an alternative
currency camping to be manipulated by the money printing process
of a fiat currency like the dollar, like the ear,
like the en, and that it does have a place
in portfolios. We also think the added catalyst for owning
gold is the reality, which is, after Russia invaded Ukraine
(36:07):
a couple of years ago, we shut off dollar access
to Russia. Maybe that was for good reason, but I
think a lot of countries that are not so friendly
with the United States right when they think about creating
a reserve currency in for trade purposes, owning gold over
dollar makes a bit more sense to them on the margin.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
All right. I always appreciate your view on the markets.
Aaron Kennon, founder, co founder and CEO Clear Harbor Asset Management.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
This is This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast,
available on Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcasts.
Listen live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern
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(36:49):
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Speaker 2 (00:08):
This is Bloomberg business Week Daily reporting from the magazine
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and trends shaping today's complex economy, plus global business, finance
and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Weekdaily
Podcast with Carol Masser and Tim Stenebek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
In the meantime, we continue to track the President over
in the Middle East. He is in Doha, Cutter, and
he's been making some statements and there's also been some
more business deals coming down. We want to dig into
all of this over the next fourteen minutes. President Trump,
we should point out he did talk about exploring normalizing
relations with Syria after the toppling of longtime autocrat Bashar
(00:54):
Ala Sad. This is adding to a pledge to lift
sanctions against the country's new government. Let's get some content
mix on this, some thoughts on a possible deeper US
Syrian relationship with US. As Bloomberg News senior reporter Jennifer Delo,
she is traveling with the President and she joins us
from Doha at this moment. Jen, good to have you here.
A lot of ceremonies. We continue to look at the
(01:16):
live pictures out of cutter and of course we know
that the president a receiving line, a greeting line, but
getting ready to go into a Katari state dinner tell
us little bit about the day's developments, and in particular
with Syria and for those it's a complicated relationship, and
we understand why. But I'm curious about why this moment
(01:37):
in time might the President be looking to deepen ties.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
I mean, it's a good question because it's the moment,
and the reason of why it happened now is directly
related to this trip, you know, in this pivotal moment
with Syria actually kind of unfolded this morning while we
were still while the President was still in Riad, Saudi
Arabia attending a meeting of the Golf Cooperation Council, he
(02:05):
met with Siria's new president I'm at al shraw for
what was really a remarkable meeting, the first meeting between
the heads of the US and Syria since two thousand
and The meeting was essentially broker by and encouraged by
Turkey's President Erdawan as well as Saudi's Crown Prince Mohammed
bin Selman, who Trump had been you know, visiting with
(02:27):
for essentially thirty six hours at that point, or at
least a day and a half. And you know, it
was an extraordinary meeting really that came about in this
place and in this time, and his decision to pursue
normalization with Syria and to lift sanctions on Syria was
encouraged by both men.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
What do we know?
Speaker 5 (02:45):
What do we know, jen about Ahmad al Sharah, the
country's president who took place of longtime autocrat, as Carol mentioned,
Bashar Ali Sad.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
What do you know about him?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Well, I mean, he is a former militant.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
He joined Al Kaeda and IRACTI fight American troops after
the two thousand and three US invasion. He has spent
many years and really since the toppling of the Assad
regime trying to to encourage folks to believe he's you know,
turned a new leaf, he's a changed man, and really
(03:19):
arguing to the world that Siria shouldn't pay the price
for the Assad era. And that's so he's really you know,
extended this olive branch, and that's you know, obviously getting
this recognition and this endorsement essentially from Trump is pretty significant.
And I will say that the US President did outline
(03:40):
of things he expects to see from Syria, including signing
on to the Abraham Accords Israel, which is normalization with
Israel that the president has been seeking since his first term,
and some other changes really cutting off, you know, any
support for terrorism or or housing of terrorists within Syria
things like that.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Is he a different man, a different individual, who was
that former militant who joined al Qaeda? I know, I
think since then he has disavowed the terrorist group. But
I do wonder, you know, what kind of leader do
we know him to possibly be in the future. Is
it going to be a different Syria than it was
under Bashah al Assad?
Speaker 3 (04:18):
You know, I think that's a very open question, and
it's a very real one for Israel, which you know,
the backdrop for this trip that Trump is taking in
the Middle East, going of course to Saudi Arabia, then
to cutter and tomorrow heading to the United Arab Emirate
is that he's not going to Israel. Uh And certainly
(04:39):
relations with Israel have been a little bit tenser in
recent days.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
There's a sense that in Israel.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
They're feeling a little bit of the cold shoulder from
the US right now. Uh, And this move with Siria's
is one that is likely to spark fresh tensions with
Israel because they have they've they've issued these constant warnings
about Shara's govern and they've actually carried out airstrikes and
Sirias since the sides aust So you know, there's a
really a wait and see a piece to all of
(05:08):
this that you know, we will in fact have to
wait and see how this all plays out. But there's
there's definitely folks questioning this embrace.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Hey, Jen, One thing I always think about is, you know,
this is the first plan trip by President Trump overseas, right.
We know he went certainly for the Pope's funeral, but
this is the first plan trip. And I do wonder
the significance. I know this is something we Tim and
I kind of keep going back to significance of a
being the Middle East, the significance of it being Saudi Arabia,
the significance of Katar maybe not going to Israel, it's
(05:40):
not so far off the map right to stop there
on the trip. What message does that send to the
world about President Trump and his White House and their
you know, global priorities. Or is it different because fair
to say the Trump administration is a bit of a
different one. You know, it might be a bit of both.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
I mean, Trump certainly is different, and we shouldn't discount
that in this context. He is a president who values
investments and deals in the US and this trip is
a lot about investments and securing announcements of purchases and
commitments to invest in US manufacturing and buy US goods.
(06:20):
So that has been a theme throughout the trip and
one we will continue to see. So I think that's
certainly a factor here. You know, the President is also
very clearly saying that he sees the Middle East and
US allies in the Middle East as incredibly important for
both regions, both on a commercial level and in a
security level. And you know, he expressed this very clearly yesterday.
(06:44):
He gave a pretty big speech at a Saudi US
investment forum basically articulating that he wants to see cooperation
with the Middle East on commercial matters and other matters
and really cheerleaded essentially, you know, any efforts to get
away from violence and terrorism, and of course all of
this is happening as he is trying to encourage, you know,
(07:08):
peace and Gaza and a ceasefire there. You know, some
of the focus on investment maybe because you know that
progress has been slower to realize than he wants.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
All right, So good to be able to check in
with you. We know, long days there, Jen, So thank
you so much, Bloomberg News Senior reporter Jen Delohi.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily podcast. Catch us
live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen
on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app,
or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
I think it's fair to say that there's more news
about higher education than at any time in our lifetimes.
I think Janet Lauren would agree with that. Among the
latest headlines, Harvard University said it will free up an
extra two hundred and fifty million dollars of school money
to help pay for research during the coming year after
the Trump administration scrapped multi year federal funding and more
than two point six billion dollars. Also, we learned today
(07:57):
that university president Alan Garber will take a voluntary twenty
five percent pay cut for the academic year that starts
July first. A school spokesman as said, so that's just Harvard,
but it's fair to say schools all over are feeling
of pressure. We have with us doctor Justin Schwartz, Chancellor
of the University of Colorado, Boulder. He's also an entrepreneur,
the founder and CEO of Loopine Materials in Technology and
(08:19):
Eagle Power Technologies co founder and CTO. Also with us
is Janet Lauren, higher education finance reporter for Bloomberg News.
Janet is here in a studio. Doctor Schwartz is in Boulder.
Doctor Schwartz, I want to start with you and then
we can do a roundtable here. What are the what's
the pressure you're feeling from Washington or are you feeling
any pressure from Washington given what we've heard from the
(08:40):
Trump administration and what the Trump administration has done when
it comes to grants funding for schools all over the country.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Sure, great, Thanks.
Speaker 6 (08:51):
For having me. It's exciting to be here with you.
I think the number one pressure on us right now
is the remain the link uncertainty of everything that's going on.
You know, there's I've lost track of how many of
the f and a reduction efforts are still pending in
the courts for adjudication. Uncertainty around you know, the cancelation
(09:16):
of ongoing research grants from all sorts of different agencies
is you know, again another uncertainty. And then of course,
you know, uncertainty in terms of what will be in
next year's budget for all the different research agencies. The
uncertainty brings, you know, the anxiety, it brings the concern.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
We're trying to recruit graduate students.
Speaker 6 (09:38):
For this coming fall, and you know, many of the
disciplines that we get federal funding, particularly the STEM disciplines,
graduate students you know, are usually supported by those research grants,
and so trying to make you know, one, two, three,
four year commitments to some of the best and brightest
people from around the world is challenging when there's you know,
(09:58):
a lack of clarity in terms of what's what what
funding situations will be like and what the what the
federal commitment will be to this, you know, sixty eighty
year old partnership between Higher ed, the federal government and
industry for advancing our economy.
Speaker 7 (10:15):
So as a as a nuclear engineer, you know, you
certainly know your way around the STEM field and have
have no doubt received your own funding from federal grants.
What does this atmosphere feel like as a as a researcher,
you know, so.
Speaker 6 (10:33):
That I think there's two pieces to it as a researcher.
One is, as I pointed to, just the uncertainty. But
then there's also just that question of, you know, is
what I've been doing and committed my life to doing
valued right? Is there is does the public? Does the
government recognize that? You know, what I'm doing in my
(10:55):
research is in part to advance the research topic that
I'm working on, but also to educate students who are
going to go into the workforce, who are going to
go and create new companies, who are going to go
in advanced technologies and you know, and drive the society forward.
So I think it's a twofold piece, you know, the
(11:16):
pragmatic of how does this impact my ability to do
the research? But secondly, how am I How is what
I do as an enterprise perceived?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
You know, it's interesting, doctor Schwartz. I think about geopolitics
and the importance of what many would argue a soft power, right,
so whether it's providing aid, but what that does for
a country like the United States in terms of being
able to really have a front seat at the table
on so many different issues, and the same thing for
(11:47):
I think R and D that gets done at hospitals
gets done at academic institutions, and whether it's with you know,
private money or federal money, you know what that kind
of grants us on an innovative, disruptive world. Without it,
what's the US at risk of.
Speaker 6 (12:09):
So one of the things that I think is not
fully appreciated is the role that US Higher ed has
played through its research enterprise in attracting really the smartest
people from around the world to the United States, you know, permanently.
And this goes back decades, you know, to the early
(12:30):
days of NASA were in part successful, and we took
the world leadership over sixty years ago in part because
of the scientists that emigrated to the US after World
War Two.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Our ability to.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
Not just compete, but to really dominate in R and
D and technology development all these decades is in part
because we've not you know, when you bring in the
best and brightest from around the world, you're not only
adding the best and brightest to your enterprise, which you're
denying your competitors the best in brightness, right, so it's
a you know, it's a double win.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
And so.
Speaker 6 (13:07):
With that there's also the scientific diplomacy that comes from,
you know, being a global R and D leader.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
I think back to.
Speaker 6 (13:17):
The I think it was early mid eighties, so it
had to be early mid eighties when Reagan had the
summit with the Soviet leader, and one of the lesser
announced outcomes was actually a partnership in fusion R and
D and and that sort of enterprise you know, brings
(13:38):
together collaborations even with competing nations. So there's so many
benefits to being a leader in R and D research
at universities which are you readily open to visitors and industry,
that it's difficult to predict what the unintended consequences could be.
Speaker 7 (14:00):
So when you were here in New York recently, we
were talking about a bill in Congress that would fix
the price of college for four years, give family certainties.
And some other university presidents who are with you, we're saying, well,
that's a difficult challenge because you don't know what our
budget is. But your answer was that CU Boulder has
been doing this for many years. Could you tell us
(14:23):
how that has worked and how this all came about
from the state legislature.
Speaker 6 (14:28):
So at CU Boulder it actually started on campus, not
with the legislature. We've been doing it since twenty sixteen
for all of our undergraduate students, freshmen and transfers, and.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
For in state students.
Speaker 6 (14:43):
It also includes tuition and mandatory fees for out of
state and international students. It's only tuition, but of course
that's the biggest piece. And you know, I will say
in the last few years with you know, when inflation
is higher, it can be a little bit of a
challenge for the university, but that challenge is well worth
it because you know, we like to say that we
(15:04):
are focusing on our mission.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
First.
Speaker 6 (15:07):
Of course, we have to balance our budget and make
ends meet. But if we can do things that help
our students see that they can not only come to
Boulder but graduate from Boulder, then that's that's critical. And
it's even even with the risk of inflationary impacts, it
really actually makes good business sense. I don't think there's
(15:27):
any industry that wouldn't say repeat customers or are more
valuable than even going for new customers. And for us,
that translates to the more we can do to ensure
that a student that comes to Boulder stays at Boulder
and graduates from Boulder. You know, that really benefits our
bottom line financially more than annual toition increases across the board.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
So I think it's a great idea.
Speaker 6 (15:51):
It's the first institution I've been at that has it,
and I truly love it. I think it's nice to
be able to say you to a family, this is
what your tuition is going to be this year, next year,
or the year after and the year after that, and
for them knowing that, okay, it'll go up if they're
here more than four years, right, that's actually that extra
incentive for the student to say, yeah, maybe I should
(16:11):
make sure I get done in that four year window.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
And this is the same for in state and out
not the same tuition, but this applies for out of
state students.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
As well, national and international.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
The exception would be dual degree recipients, right, who are
charged a higher tuitions, right, and then there they're.
Speaker 6 (16:29):
Doing correct, So if they're doing like a bachelor's, master's,
then it's the higher of the rates what the majority
of our students get that benefit.
Speaker 5 (16:39):
What is the typical four year graduation rate in the
sense of, like, okay, how many people, what portion of
students it does this apply to versus those who can't
finish in four years?
Speaker 6 (16:49):
Yeah, so our four year graduation rate right now is
around sixty percent, just under our six year graduations about
seventy four percent.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
So you can see, like, if the group that took
six years did four they benefit.
Speaker 6 (17:04):
Puts us well above the national average, but well below
where I want to take us a chance.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Can I just say, we're all kind of looking at
each other and all respect, We're like that kind of
feels kind of low.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
I'm surprised.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
That's a bit of a bummer. Yeah, it's so.
Speaker 6 (17:18):
It was just for some clarity. If a student comes
to see you Bouler, spends a year or two here
and decides, you know, I'd rather go somewhere else for
whatever reason. I'm from Maryland and I'd rather be close
to home. That student may still graduate in four years,
but it would still count against us in terms of
four of you.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
How often does that happen?
Speaker 6 (17:36):
Though?
Speaker 1 (17:37):
How often does somebody start and go somewhere else?
Speaker 6 (17:40):
It's I don't have the exact number, but it's honestly
not that uncommon. And so in fact, we're working right
now to see increases year over year in the number
of students that transferred to CU Bowler. So that would
mean we'd have students that would graduate here but wouldn't
count for our four year graduation right either, because they
didn't start here. So the way's counted as based specifically
(18:01):
on starting is graduating at the exact same campus that
you start at.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
So is what holds apart from transferring to a different school,
what typically holds people back from graduating in four years?
Is it a lack of ability of courses that will
allow them to graduate? Or is it really on the
students end more so than on the university's end.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
It's a whole plethora of things.
Speaker 6 (18:23):
And then, to be honest, we're trying to understand I've
only been a bolder less than a year, and I'm
trying to Our team is digging in to try to
understand why every student who doesn't graduate in four or
six years, what was the reason. So for some of them, right,
they may come in, they're really excited. They listen to
Bloomberg News, so they want to be a business major,
(18:46):
and they get in and they realize, well, maybe I
don't want to be a business major, so they transferred
to another college and that cost them a year, right,
Or they start out like our two biggest, most excited
programs for students, most heavily demanded, our Business and then Engineering,
and a student may start in engineering and decide, you know,
I'd rather be a math major or I'd rather do physics.
(19:07):
So when they change majors, that can delay their graduation.
Some of them will take time off because they need
to raise money, right, and so financial can be a deterrent.
That's those are reasons why you see a fifteen percent
increase from the four years of the six year graduation rate,
right because a lot of the students just need that
(19:27):
extra time to figure out what it is.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
They actually want to do.
Speaker 6 (19:31):
So one of the many things that we're trying to
do to increase the graduation rate is gives students, you know,
more flexibility to find their path without a delay in
their academic progress. And just to go back to that
transfer number, we graduated about just under ten thousand students.
(19:52):
This last week at commencement, we get about twenty eight hundred.
We accept about twenty eight hundred transfer students annually. Oh wow,
so that's a big piece. So there's twenty eight hundred
students whose some other school is getting a ding and
therefore your graduation.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Rate, right even though that student is going to come
and get a degree and.
Speaker 6 (20:10):
Succeed, So that it's you know, it's one of those
lies and lies and statistics situations that you knowing the
nuance of it makes a difference.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Absolutely good to understand kind of the ebbs and float
like how it all kind of plays out, which with
doctor Justin Schwartz, Chancellor of the University of Colorado Boulder,
also with US as our own Janet Law and higher
education finance reporter right here at Bloomberg News.
Speaker 7 (20:33):
Well, one thing that I was surprised to find out
recently when I when I did a story about a
donation that encouraged students to graduate in four years, was
the national average is only fifty two percent. And we
talk about student loans.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Yes, I know, well because.
Speaker 7 (20:50):
Students I'm just doing the math and they start and
you don't get it it's because of finances and then
they drop out. And I was actually quite surprised to
hear that. But I was wondering justin if you could
talk a little bit about the strategies that you're looking
to to help students finish in four years. And certainly
(21:12):
the tuition guarantee is a financial one, but what else
can you do to help students? And of course if
they drop out, then they're carrying student loans and paying
debt on a degree that they didn't finish.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
Right, absolutely, I think the.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
We have an moral imperative to do everything we can
do to help a student achieve what they came to achieve,
because to your point, the worst outcome is leaving with
debt and no degree. It's like you go to a
car dealership, you sign the contract, but you don't actually
get a car.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
What was the point of that?
Speaker 6 (21:45):
So we look at this both from the there's the
academic piece, right, So we look at which of the
early year courses, the ones that are like you know,
the onboarding courses when they're been they're new and learning college,
which are the.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Courses that have the biggest failure rates.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
So we call the DFW's d F and withdrawal and
we see how can we put as much instruction academic
support as we can to help students succeed in those courses,
but a lot of it is outside of the academic realm.
So trying to help students, you know, find their way
(22:22):
on campus.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
What are the co curricular activities that get them excited?
Speaker 6 (22:26):
I don't have the number off the top of my head,
but there's a huge difference between the graduation rate of
students who have outside of classroom contact with faculty and
engage staff compared.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
To those that don't.
Speaker 6 (22:40):
So how do we you know, we do these things
called rats right where we are living learning communities where
we get students together in the dorms who are similar
in their degree interests, and we bring programming to them.
So we need to do the you know, find students
where they are and meet them where they are and
help them, you know, do more than just simply see
(23:01):
themselves as going to class.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
So that's a big piece.
Speaker 6 (23:05):
Another big piece is looking at where students are financially
and so making sure that students, even if they still
owe the university a little bit of money, can still
register on time right, register with everybody else, get the
classes that they need right. Don't make any short term
(23:25):
financial issues an obstacle to getting into the courses. They need,
because then you know, otherwise they're missing that window in
terms of a required course, and you know that a
semester can cost.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
You a year.
Speaker 6 (23:36):
Yeah, so we're trying to figure out all the things
like what are the obstacles and speed bumps that we've
inadvertently put in place?
Speaker 4 (23:44):
How do we get rid of those?
Speaker 5 (23:45):
There's a whole host of issues. As you mentioned, we
only have a minute or so left. And when everyone
found out we were speaking to you, everybody was saying,
you got to ask them about Dion Sanders aka coach Prime.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
What is it like being his boss?
Speaker 6 (24:00):
I will say, you know, decades ago, when I decided
to go get a PhD at MIT and Engineering, being
Dion's boss was the first thing.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
On my mind. Yeah, I love it. So here's the
thing about Dion. One.
Speaker 6 (24:15):
It means that at no point in time will I
ever be the most recognizable person on campus.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
And that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Speaker 6 (24:24):
It also means that I have a visible partner on
campus who talks to students bluntly about having a successful life.
Right that you know he talks to his players not
just about succeeding in football, but that most of them
won't go to the NFL, and he works with them
for their career trajectories across all disciplines. I have a
(24:46):
partner who will who has in the past gone publicly
and talked about his own mental health challenges right, and
mental health challenges are one of those things that keep
graduation right down right, So normalizing the ability to talk
about those challenges is tremendous. I have a partner who
is willing to stand up after every win and tell
his team celebrate, but no means no, and he'll say
(25:10):
it over over again. No means no until they say
it back, and does not tolerate any form of the
kind of behaviors that some institutions have seen through athletics.
So I've got a partner in driving all the right
messages that we want our campus to hear across all
of our students, who also talks about the importance of
(25:32):
excellence right. We know that as a campus we can't
do everything, but everything we do we want to do
at that highest level. It's fantastic having Diana on campus,
and you know, I'm glad he's going to be here
for a while.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Justin one last quick question, Jess got about thirty forty
seconds here we're Bloomberg. You know, we think about financial
aspects of everything, including sports and collegiate sports. There's a
lot going on. What does it mean to have him
there when it comes to school finances and fundraises and
sports programs and name image like this just quickly.
Speaker 6 (26:07):
So his impact on our campus in our community is huge.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
Right.
Speaker 6 (26:13):
We went from not having many people in the stadium
to selling out.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
You know. The estimate is that the six home games.
Speaker 6 (26:21):
We had in twenty twenty four brought about one hundred
and forty six million dollars to the city of Boulder
in the surrounding region. That's enormous. I don't know this
as I'm speculating when I say this, but demonstrating that
we can be a city that supports events that have
Dion Sanders may have influenced the question are we a
(26:41):
city that can support having the Sundance Film Festival? Right,
it's that visibility of as a community that's huge.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
We've also seen, you know, increases in.
Speaker 6 (26:51):
Our national ability to recruit students into all majors. He's
having so many different levels of impact, it's just been fantastic. Yeah,
we were the only team in the country last season
to be on every one of the national networks and
the flagship ESPN station, which is a school first. I mean,
(27:11):
think about some of the names in college football, but
we were the only one.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Fascinating good stuff. Really enjoyed talking with you, and I
hope you'll come back soon. Doctor Justin Schwartz chancellor at
the University of Colorado, Boulder, joining us from Boulder, Colorado.
He's also a found in ce of Lupine Materials and Technology.
Great to cover a lot of ground with him.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live
each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple car
Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You
can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship
New York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Revc' about you.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
Let me drive?
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Oh no, no, no no, this is not a toy, honight.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Please, I'll do the driving levels. Wait, I want to drive.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
It's a good question, drives.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
This is the drive to the clothes palms. Some musing, Well,
run it on on Bloomberg Radio. All right, TikTok, everybody,
Just about eighteen minutes to go until we wrap up
the trade on this Wednesday. Kind of a weird little trade,
bouncing around a little bit, but call it flat on
the S and P as you just heard from Charlie,
down about ninety one points there on the Dow Jones
Industrial Average if you're keeping a watch on that index,
(28:32):
and the Nasdaq one hundred holding on to just a
slight gain up about seventy four points, but definitely again
all of these averages off their best levels of the session.
We've seen tech out reform today, but it does feel
like a little bit of a breather on this Wednesday.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
I want to get on over to Aaron Kennedy, CEO
at Clear Harbor Asset Management. He joins us from Stamford, Connecticut.
Right now, Clear Harbor has got about two billion dollars
in assets under management. Okay, we're going to talk about
the markets in just a second. Erin but is the
trail I was in your neck of the woods over
the weekend and on Monday and last week as well,
(29:06):
and it was just a constant parking lot on ninety five.
Is it always like that in Stanford?
Speaker 8 (29:11):
It's challenging, you know, there's a bottleneck. There's some construction
right now, so it's worse than usual. But you know,
this is a rather challenging card or for sure.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Yeah, my parents drove to LaGuardia this morning. Carol yea
from Fairfield two and a half hours to get to LaGuardia.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
I can imagine it gets messy right erin like it's
just kind of rough.
Speaker 8 (29:33):
Yeah, well it's maybe maybe some more infrastructure spending in
the years.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
Ahead will help, you know, I was thinking about infrastructure
a lot when I was going back and forth over
the weekend.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Hey, I doe the boring Company and eline doesn't sound
so crazy, right, You would take some little tunnels where
you could just kind of do a straight shot.
Speaker 5 (29:51):
All I'm going to say is I did a trip
to Norway seven years ago or something, and you don't
need the boring company and make amazing tunnels. They've had
the tunnels that they have through the belly.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Oh it's amazing.
Speaker 5 (30:01):
Yeah, no comparison to what happens here in the US. Okay,
we're going to get to everything that's on our radar.
When it comes to the kind of blistering rally that
we've seen from those April lows, Eric Wiener was on
with US earlier. He called the reprieve between the US
and China a postponement of the trade war.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Would you agree, Well, we'll have to see.
Speaker 8 (30:23):
I mean, I think that there's good reason to believe
that President Trump is poised to take out a little
more of a scalpel as it pertains to what's going
on with China negotiations. And what I mean by that
is that there is a real national security concern with
regard to some aspects of our trade arrangements. We have
rare earths, ninety percent plus of which are being refined
(30:46):
in China. We have ninety percent of our ibuprofen being
manufactured in China. And you know, we have semiconductors that
are being manufactured outside the United States. And Taiwan, Yes,
Taiwan's an ally, but you know, China has discussed the
possibility of invading Taiwan. And so I think there may
(31:07):
be a middle road here. I suspect that President Trump
will want to maintain tariffs across major economies of ten
percent or so, and I suspect that China will be
probably a recipient of higher higher tariffs than that, perhaps
fifteen percent, with these carve outs that I mentioned around
national security, so certainly much higher than they were just
(31:30):
just a few weeks ago, and we'll have to see
it all sorts out.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
So do you feel like the worst is over for
the equity markets or not so fast that we are
indeed in a bear market to get ready for some
more downside at some point.
Speaker 8 (31:42):
I mean, I'm a bit cautious here. We've had a
major rally. If you look at the MAG seven, they've
rallied from that April eighth sort of low about twenty
eight percent. There's still down five percent this year though
you take the S and P five hundreds rallied about
eighteen percent off that April eighth low, and it's actually about.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
Flat on the year.
Speaker 8 (32:02):
And we yes Q one earnings were somewhat robust, but
there is a lot of pull forward. We think maybe
some deceleration in the back half of the year, but
still positive earnings going forward. Multiples are not cheap, they're
still sort of top death style in many cases, but
the broader market is more fair value. If you look
like equal weight to SMP training at sixteen times. There
(32:24):
are lots of opportunities we still think may exist there
but the uncertainty around terrifs hasn't gone away, and for
good reason.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
We still have this.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
All in place.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Right and as we've been talking and continue to talk
with folks like yourself and some of our internals as
well as other external guests, I mean this idea that
the data points that we continue to moll over report
out don't reflect any of the tariff news. And so
you know, get ready perhaps for all of that to
play out as we get into the summer, and you
(32:56):
do wonder what kind of implications that might have for
valuations or how investors we'll look at the markets.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
I think that's right.
Speaker 8 (33:02):
I think that's why time is of the essence. I
think that's why Corporate America has put so much pressure
in the White House too. If they're going to backpedal,
to backpedal, if they're going to take out a scalpel
instead of a mallet on the tariff issue, become a
little more detailed and refined around it, do it sooner
rather than later. Let's not create unnecessary harm to the economy.
I think there's an understanding that's been sort of permeating
(33:24):
up into the Oval Office around that, and so I'm
somewhat hopeful that we're going to continue to move. We're
still going to make you know, some some progress in
a positive way. We've done it with the UK, it
looks like we may be in the process of doing
it with China. He used, X multi country it's going
to be more challenging. But you know, I think that
there there's this is this is considered progress. And if
(33:47):
you read the Art of the Deal by Donald Trump,
he's sort of all about shock and awe and creating
a level of confusion, even as Secretary Bessant said this
as much within the last week that this is sort
of his approach. Yeah, to see how this all all
plays out.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
All right, So Aaron, I have to ask you, have
you read the Art of the Deal? Have you did
you read it years ago? Or I do wonder if
everybody is like pulling that book out again and saying
we got to take a look at it.
Speaker 8 (34:12):
Yeah, I'm sort of pulling it out now to be honest,
for the first time. And the parallels are sort of striking,
And so you know, that's why I bring this to
your attention.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Love it. What else do we know about from the
Art of the Deal?
Speaker 8 (34:25):
Carol, I know, yeah, well, you know, I don't have
much more for you on that, but you know, certainly
the president's trying to nudge monetary policy officials to cut
rates and he and he's doing that, you know, quite
quite overtly. But what's interesting to see there is that
(34:46):
the Fed is sort of face is sort of facing
a dilemma of not knowing whether or not these tariffs stay,
whether or not growth becomes a challenge, if terrors stay,
or whether or not pricing and inflation becomes more of
a challenge. But if you look at the front end
of the bond mark get Carol and Tim with twos
trading right around two percent, fifty basis points below the
FED funds rate, one could argue that the market's still
(35:08):
pricing in some cuts this year, just not as many
as they were just a week ago or just a
few days ago, and perhaps starting to cut later this
year rather than mid this year. So that's sort of
a you know, sort of a thought that you know,
Trump's nudging of, or maybe not so nudging, you know,
verbally berating the FED chair may not result in much
activity for several months.
Speaker 5 (35:29):
Hey, Aaron, before we let you go, just thirty seconds
on gold for much of the year. It's been new
all time high after new all time high, down about
seven point four percent from those highs earlier this month.
What say you about gold right now?
Speaker 8 (35:42):
Yeah, We're still constructive over the long run as it
pertains to gold. We think that gold is an alternative
currency camping to be manipulated by the money printing process
of a fiat currency like the dollar, like the ear,
like the en, and that it does have a place
in portfolios. We also think the added catalyst for owning
gold is the reality, which is, after Russia invaded Ukraine
(36:07):
a couple of years ago, we shut off dollar access
to Russia. Maybe that was for good reason, but I
think a lot of countries that are not so friendly
with the United States right when they think about creating
a reserve currency in for trade purposes, owning gold over
dollar makes a bit more sense to them on the margin.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
All right. I always appreciate your view on the markets.
Aaron Kennon, founder, co founder and CEO Clear Harbor Asset Management.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
This is This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast,
available on Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcasts.
Listen live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern
on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app tune In, and
the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live
(36:49):
every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal
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Carol Massar
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