September 23, 2025 • 11 mins
France recognized Palestine as an independent state and, along with Saudi Arabia at a United Nations conference led by the two countries, called on Israel to end the war in Gaza immediately.
“One solution exists to break the cycle of war and destruction: acknowledging each other,” French President Emmanuel Macron said on Monday. “We must recognize that Palestinians and Israelis are living in twin solitude.”
Saudi Foreign Minister Faisal bin Farhan, reading out a message from Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who wasn’t in New York, echoed those comments.
For her insight into the conflict with the UN General Assembly in the backdrop, hosts Carol Massar and Tim Stenovec speak with Mona Yacoubian, Director and Senior Adviser, Middle East Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. You're listening to Bloomberg
BusinessWeek with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
France recognized Palestine as an independent state, and, along with
Saudi Arabia, at a UN conference led by the Dow Countries,
called on Israel to end the war in Gaza immediately. Now,
several countries, including the UK, Canada, Australian, Portugal, formally recognized Palestine,
tim joining almost one hundred and fifty nations that had
already made the move.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Not among them the United States. President Trump addressing the
reasons why when he spoke this morning to the UN
General Assembly here.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
In New York, some of this body seeking to unilaterally
recognize a Palestinian state. The rewards would be too great
for Hamas terrorists for their atrocities. This would be a
reward for these horrible atrocities, including October seventh, even while
(01:02):
they refuse to release the hostages or accept the cease fire.
Those who want peace should be united with one message,
release the hostages. Now.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Just release the hostages, then, our President Trump at the
You and General Assembly earlier today, the Israeli ambassador to
the un pictured in that video as well. Hey joining
us with what may be next in the war between
Israel and Hamas Mona Yakubian. She's Director and Senior Advisor
Middle East Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
(01:35):
She joins US from DC. She has more than thirty
years of experience working on the Middle East and North Africa,
and she has spent time at us AID also the
State Department a lot. More so, she's got a great
perspective on this, Monica. Great to have you, Mona, rather
great to have you here with us. In terms of
the meetings this week, what you're hearing so far, do
(01:57):
you think anything will come out in terms of progress
toward ending the war between Israel and Hamas.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
You know, Unfortunately, I don't see any near term prospect
for a ceasefire. We're sort of watching this weird paradox
where there's growing momentum for the declaration of a Palestinian state,
and yet nothing could be further from reality on the ground,
certainly in Gaza and beyond.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
So then is the recognition symbolic And if it is symbolic,
does it do more than just make Israel feel isolated?
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Well, it's certainly symbolic. It's hard, as I said, it
doesn't translate to anything concrete on the ground. It certainly
has had I think, the effect of isolating Israel, and
in a way though, I think therefore having Israel also
entrench its position further. Prime Minister d'Artagnan, who has been
very clear that he is in no way, shape or
(02:58):
form interested in seeing a Palestinian state come to fruition.
And so that's why without without the buy in of
Israel or the United States, it's very hard to see
how these declarations really go any further than simply the
statements that are being made.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
What about financial pressure and economic pressure on Israel's in particular,
I mean, the EU, Israel's biggest trading partner, is discussing
suspending Israel's preferential commerce benefits, although some key German politicians
have expressed their disapproval. We've also talked about the money
that Israel is spending on this war and the impact
(03:37):
it's having on its economy. How much of a financial
and economic cost, How much more can Israel indoor let's
start there, or is that putting pressure for them to
also bring it into this putting aside the impact on
human life.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Which is significant. But I think, as you rightly point out, first,
we're still ways from I think concerted EU action against
Israel because of the kind of the opposition of countries
like Germany. My own view is barring significant leverage from
the United States as the primary ally and supporter of Israel,
(04:16):
it's really hard to see how any of these measures
are going to have a real impact on Israeli decision making.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
What kind of leverage is that in the form of funds,
is in the form of weapons? What's the leverage?
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Well, I mean, I think arm sales are often raised
as a key leverage measure that the US could take
restricting arm sales, maybe defense only selling defensive weapons, or
perhaps a full embargo on arm sales. These are certainly
measures that have been discussed by Democrats in Congress, but
again we haven't seen those take on any momentum. And
(04:52):
in fact, if anything, the Trump administration is actually proposing
increased arm sales to Israel.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
What would you say to folks out there? And we
heard from the President who said those who want peace
should be united with one message, release the hostages. Now
just release the hostages. Those critics out there who say
the ball right now is in Hamas's court. They can
end this by releasing the hostages.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Well, there's reporting that Hamas is proposing a limited sixty
day ceasefire in exchange for a partial release of the
hostages and then perhaps additional releases as the ceasefire goes
on at the end of the day. You know, Yes,
of course Hamas on the ground is a critical element
in this, but Israel is as well, and there really
(05:35):
needs to be perhaps movement on the part of Israel
as well towards some kind of of a ceasefire negotiation,
positive movement in the direction of a ceasefire.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, I think, you know, on the flip side to
what Tim said, I mean, why wouldn't Israel say, yeah,
cease fire, let's bring let's bring those folks home.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Well, let's be clear, we're saying Israel as though it's
a unitary actor, which of course is not the case.
So there have been massive demonstrations in Israel by across
the political spectrum and certainly by hostage families really demanding
that the Israeli government do more to reach a ceasefire.
(06:14):
And it's really you know, Prime Minister Netanyahu and those
directly around him who have really, you know, put the
brakes on any effort to actually move those negotiations along.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
On that, we're going to be joined a little later
in our program, just at the four o'clock hour by
Ethan Bronner. Typically he joins us from Tel Aviv, but
he's bringing the Tel Aviv View to New York. He's
going to be in our studio a little later, so
we'll get an update from him on what's happening on
the ground in Tel Aviv right now too.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, looking forward to that. One thing I wanted to
ask you, Mona. I mean, I don't want to sound naive,
but why has this really gone on for so long?
You know, before this war, we were talking about net
and Yahoo, the Prime Minister of Israel maybe losing his job.
You know, there was so much pushback against him. I'm
(07:01):
just trying to understand what's really at the heart of this.
You have studied the region for a long time, you
understand conflict, and I just wonder, you know, why it's
going on for so long, and really, what do we
get on the other side of this Beyond a lot.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Of loss, enormous loss and devastation. I mean, unfortunately, conflicts
take on dynamics of their own, and I think we've
seen that in Gaza, where you know, there's efforts that
have been made to move toward to cease far. Of course,
let's not forget just a couple of weeks ago, Qatar
was in the midst of mediating between Israel and MS
(07:42):
when Israel unleashed strikes on Doha that immediately suspended that mediation.
And so it's very hard to actually bring adversaries to
the table and move toward compromise when one side or
the other leaves that it can continue to make gains
(08:03):
on the ground. And I think certainly in the case
of both Hemas and Israel, we're not seeing either side
ready to sort of give up, surrender, come to the
table and reach some sort of conclusion to this conflict.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
As Carol mentioned in the introduction, you've spent decades working
on the Middle East and North Africa. You focused on
conflict analysis, governance and stabilization, conflict prevention, USAID, US State Department,
and much more. If you were advising US leaders right
now and Israeli leaders right now to end this conflict,
(08:40):
how would you advise them.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
I would say that the most significant military gains have
already been made. And this isn't me, this is the
opinion of senior leadership in the Israeli military that net
of the costs of continuing the conflict are greater than
any benefit. This is the moment to move toward a conclusion.
(09:07):
It will be now two years this October. Since October seven,
there are still some twenty Israeli hostages alive still in Gaza.
It's time to bring this conflict to an end so
that they can come home and the region can move
towards stabilization.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
You know, we talked about the cost to Israel, financial, economic,
and other The war has decimated, also the Palestinian economy,
the World Bank saying it was experienced quote its deepest
contraction over a generation. More than sixty five thousand Palestinians
have died since the start of the conflict. And that's
again according to the Hamas run Health Ministry. I mean
(09:45):
there's costs on all sides.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, and Carol raised a good question when we were
talking about this at ahead of time, which is essentially, okay,
what's left or of a you know, quote unquote Palestinian
state at the end of this conflict, what happens in Gaza, Well.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
The devastation cannot be overstated. Some ninety percent of infrastructure
has been destroyed. We are seeing, you know, the Israelis
are currently undertaking an incursion into Gaza City. There are
continuing displacements of Palestinian civilians, massive hunger and even famine
(10:24):
in parts of Gaza. So first, I think the first
step is for the fighting to come to a conclusion.
And then unfortunately it's going to be a long time
and is going to take enormous resources for Gaza to rebuild,
and of course none of that will happen in the
absence of some sort of political settlement.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Well, and I just want to go back to you know,
we talked about Israel being increasingly isolated when it comes
to other world leaders. The US too kind of isolated
in its stance on this. Is the US still a
key voice in this war and helping to bring an
end to it.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
I think the US is indispensable to bringing an end
to this war. It is really only the United States
that exercises the kind of leverage and influence over Israel,
and of course has the deep ties with Arab governments
that support the Palestinians. The US is really in a
unique position, and I really hope that the Trump administration
(11:28):
seizes on this unique position that it has to do.
As President Trump promised in his inauguration speech, he wants
to be a peacemaker. This is a conflict that's really
crying out for resolution.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
All right, Well, good to get your view on all
of this. There's so much going on and continuing to
come at us, certainly this week. Honey Kubian, thank you,
Director and Senior Advisor in Middle East Program at the
Center for Strategic and International Studies.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. You're listening to Bloomberg
BusinessWeek with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
France recognized Palestine as an independent state, and, along with
Saudi Arabia, at a UN conference led by the Dow Countries,
called on Israel to end the war in Gaza immediately. Now,
several countries, including the UK, Canada, Australian, Portugal, formally recognized Palestine,
tim joining almost one hundred and fifty nations that had
already made the move.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Not among them the United States. President Trump addressing the
reasons why when he spoke this morning to the UN
General Assembly here.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
In New York, some of this body seeking to unilaterally
recognize a Palestinian state. The rewards would be too great
for Hamas terrorists for their atrocities. This would be a
reward for these horrible atrocities, including October seventh, even while
(01:02):
they refuse to release the hostages or accept the cease fire.
Those who want peace should be united with one message,
release the hostages. Now.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Just release the hostages, then, our President Trump at the
You and General Assembly earlier today, the Israeli ambassador to
the un pictured in that video as well. Hey joining
us with what may be next in the war between
Israel and Hamas Mona Yakubian. She's Director and Senior Advisor
Middle East Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
(01:35):
She joins US from DC. She has more than thirty
years of experience working on the Middle East and North Africa,
and she has spent time at us AID also the
State Department a lot. More so, she's got a great
perspective on this, Monica. Great to have you, Mona, rather
great to have you here with us. In terms of
the meetings this week, what you're hearing so far, do
(01:57):
you think anything will come out in terms of progress
toward ending the war between Israel and Hamas.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
You know, Unfortunately, I don't see any near term prospect
for a ceasefire. We're sort of watching this weird paradox
where there's growing momentum for the declaration of a Palestinian state,
and yet nothing could be further from reality on the ground,
certainly in Gaza and beyond.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
So then is the recognition symbolic And if it is symbolic,
does it do more than just make Israel feel isolated?
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Well, it's certainly symbolic. It's hard, as I said, it
doesn't translate to anything concrete on the ground. It certainly
has had I think, the effect of isolating Israel, and
in a way though, I think therefore having Israel also
entrench its position further. Prime Minister d'Artagnan, who has been
very clear that he is in no way, shape or
(02:58):
form interested in seeing a Palestinian state come to fruition.
And so that's why without without the buy in of
Israel or the United States, it's very hard to see
how these declarations really go any further than simply the
statements that are being made.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
What about financial pressure and economic pressure on Israel's in particular,
I mean, the EU, Israel's biggest trading partner, is discussing
suspending Israel's preferential commerce benefits, although some key German politicians
have expressed their disapproval. We've also talked about the money
that Israel is spending on this war and the impact
(03:37):
it's having on its economy. How much of a financial
and economic cost, How much more can Israel indoor let's
start there, or is that putting pressure for them to
also bring it into this putting aside the impact on
human life.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Which is significant. But I think, as you rightly point out, first,
we're still ways from I think concerted EU action against
Israel because of the kind of the opposition of countries
like Germany. My own view is barring significant leverage from
the United States as the primary ally and supporter of Israel,
(04:16):
it's really hard to see how any of these measures
are going to have a real impact on Israeli decision making.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
What kind of leverage is that in the form of funds,
is in the form of weapons? What's the leverage?
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Well, I mean, I think arm sales are often raised
as a key leverage measure that the US could take
restricting arm sales, maybe defense only selling defensive weapons, or
perhaps a full embargo on arm sales. These are certainly
measures that have been discussed by Democrats in Congress, but
again we haven't seen those take on any momentum. And
(04:52):
in fact, if anything, the Trump administration is actually proposing
increased arm sales to Israel.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
What would you say to folks out there? And we
heard from the President who said those who want peace
should be united with one message, release the hostages. Now
just release the hostages. Those critics out there who say
the ball right now is in Hamas's court. They can
end this by releasing the hostages.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Well, there's reporting that Hamas is proposing a limited sixty
day ceasefire in exchange for a partial release of the
hostages and then perhaps additional releases as the ceasefire goes
on at the end of the day. You know, Yes,
of course Hamas on the ground is a critical element
in this, but Israel is as well, and there really
(05:35):
needs to be perhaps movement on the part of Israel
as well towards some kind of of a ceasefire negotiation,
positive movement in the direction of a ceasefire.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, I think, you know, on the flip side to
what Tim said, I mean, why wouldn't Israel say, yeah,
cease fire, let's bring let's bring those folks home.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Well, let's be clear, we're saying Israel as though it's
a unitary actor, which of course is not the case.
So there have been massive demonstrations in Israel by across
the political spectrum and certainly by hostage families really demanding
that the Israeli government do more to reach a ceasefire.
(06:14):
And it's really you know, Prime Minister Netanyahu and those
directly around him who have really, you know, put the
brakes on any effort to actually move those negotiations along.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
On that, we're going to be joined a little later
in our program, just at the four o'clock hour by
Ethan Bronner. Typically he joins us from Tel Aviv, but
he's bringing the Tel Aviv View to New York. He's
going to be in our studio a little later, so
we'll get an update from him on what's happening on
the ground in Tel Aviv right now too.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, looking forward to that. One thing I wanted to
ask you, Mona. I mean, I don't want to sound naive,
but why has this really gone on for so long?
You know, before this war, we were talking about net
and Yahoo, the Prime Minister of Israel maybe losing his job.
You know, there was so much pushback against him. I'm
(07:01):
just trying to understand what's really at the heart of this.
You have studied the region for a long time, you
understand conflict, and I just wonder, you know, why it's
going on for so long, and really, what do we
get on the other side of this Beyond a lot.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Of loss, enormous loss and devastation. I mean, unfortunately, conflicts
take on dynamics of their own, and I think we've
seen that in Gaza, where you know, there's efforts that
have been made to move toward to cease far. Of course,
let's not forget just a couple of weeks ago, Qatar
was in the midst of mediating between Israel and MS
(07:42):
when Israel unleashed strikes on Doha that immediately suspended that mediation.
And so it's very hard to actually bring adversaries to
the table and move toward compromise when one side or
the other leaves that it can continue to make gains
(08:03):
on the ground. And I think certainly in the case
of both Hemas and Israel, we're not seeing either side
ready to sort of give up, surrender, come to the
table and reach some sort of conclusion to this conflict.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
As Carol mentioned in the introduction, you've spent decades working
on the Middle East and North Africa. You focused on
conflict analysis, governance and stabilization, conflict prevention, USAID, US State Department,
and much more. If you were advising US leaders right
now and Israeli leaders right now to end this conflict,
(08:40):
how would you advise them.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
I would say that the most significant military gains have
already been made. And this isn't me, this is the
opinion of senior leadership in the Israeli military that net
of the costs of continuing the conflict are greater than
any benefit. This is the moment to move toward a conclusion.
(09:07):
It will be now two years this October. Since October seven,
there are still some twenty Israeli hostages alive still in Gaza.
It's time to bring this conflict to an end so
that they can come home and the region can move
towards stabilization.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
You know, we talked about the cost to Israel, financial, economic,
and other The war has decimated, also the Palestinian economy,
the World Bank saying it was experienced quote its deepest
contraction over a generation. More than sixty five thousand Palestinians
have died since the start of the conflict. And that's
again according to the Hamas run Health Ministry. I mean
(09:45):
there's costs on all sides.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, and Carol raised a good question when we were
talking about this at ahead of time, which is essentially, okay,
what's left or of a you know, quote unquote Palestinian
state at the end of this conflict, what happens in Gaza, Well.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
The devastation cannot be overstated. Some ninety percent of infrastructure
has been destroyed. We are seeing, you know, the Israelis
are currently undertaking an incursion into Gaza City. There are
continuing displacements of Palestinian civilians, massive hunger and even famine
(10:24):
in parts of Gaza. So first, I think the first
step is for the fighting to come to a conclusion.
And then unfortunately it's going to be a long time
and is going to take enormous resources for Gaza to rebuild,
and of course none of that will happen in the
absence of some sort of political settlement.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Well, and I just want to go back to you know,
we talked about Israel being increasingly isolated when it comes
to other world leaders. The US too kind of isolated
in its stance on this. Is the US still a
key voice in this war and helping to bring an
end to it.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
I think the US is indispensable to bringing an end
to this war. It is really only the United States
that exercises the kind of leverage and influence over Israel,
and of course has the deep ties with Arab governments
that support the Palestinians. The US is really in a
unique position, and I really hope that the Trump administration
(11:28):
seizes on this unique position that it has to do.
As President Trump promised in his inauguration speech, he wants
to be a peacemaker. This is a conflict that's really
crying out for resolution.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
All right, Well, good to get your view on all
of this. There's so much going on and continuing to
come at us, certainly this week. Honey Kubian, thank you,
Director and Senior Advisor in Middle East Program at the
Center for Strategic and International Studies.
Hosts And Creators
Tim Stenovec
Carol Massar
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