July 9, 2025 • 32 mins
Linda Yaccarino, who was hired two years ago by Elon Musk as chief executive officer of X, is stepping down less than three months after the social-media platform was absorbed by Musk’s artificial intelligence startup, xAI.
“After two incredible years, I’ve decided to step down as CEO of X,” Yaccarino said in a post on X Wednesday. “I’ll be cheering you all on as you continue to change the world.”
The former NBCUniversal executive was hired by Musk in May 2023 after he’d already fired or lost about 75% of employees at the company previously called Twitter. Over the course of her two-year tenure, Yaccarino was charged with reversing an advertiser exodus from the platform, triggered in part by Musk’s own erratic content moderation decisions and posts. Advertisers were concerned that their products would be listed next to hate speech or violent content.
It was a difficult task. X revenue fell by close to 50% and missed internal targets in 2023, and several major advertisers departed the platform or paused spending after Musk endorsed an antisemitic post in late 2023. He told marketers who were boycotting the platform to “Go f—- yourself” at a conference after the incident. At the time, Yaccarino told staff that the company’s “free speech” mission would continue with or without advertiser support. “Our principles do not have a price tag, nor will they be compromised — ever,” Yaccarino wrote.
Revenue has since improved from those lows, and advertising sales were projected to increase 16.5% this year, according to Emarketer. Yaccarino, who spent more than 11 years as a top advertising executive at NBCUniversal, is known for her strong relationships in the ad world.
Today's show features:
- Dan Ives, Global Head of Technology Research at Wedbush Securities top headlines from the tech industry including Nvidia’s market cap and Elon Musk’s social media response to Ives making suggestions for the Tesla board
- Wendy Cutler, Vice President at the Asia Society Policy Institute on President Donald Trump’s tariffs impacting Asian trading partners
- Bloomberg News US Semiconductor & Networking Reporter Ian King on Nvidia reaching a market cap of $4 trillion
- Dr. Steven Skancke, Chief Economic Advisor at Keel Point on FOMC minutes and the White House’s criticism of Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg business
Weekdaily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay
ahead with insight on the people, companies, and trends shaping
today's complex economy. Plus global business, finance and tech news
(00:23):
as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast with
Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
It was three words, what shut up?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Dan Oh?
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Three words?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
That's what Elon musk Wow, the wealthiest person in the world,
posted in a message on x Remember he's the wealthiest
man in the world, in response to a post from
the tech analyst dan Ives. Dan Ives is a global
head of technology research at Webush Security. He joins us
from New York. Dan I had a viewer send this
tweet to me yesterday. The response Elon telling you to
(01:01):
shut up. First of all, he was, you were making
three recommendations for what you think the company should do.
What happened there?
Speaker 5 (01:10):
Hey?
Speaker 6 (01:11):
Look, I mean I knew Elon was not gonna be happy,
But the reality is, you know, the board.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
They basically need to now step it up.
Speaker 6 (01:21):
And I think it's something where you know, I hear
from sheeralders around the world right on Tesla and it's
one of the biggest supporters of Elon and Tesla. It
was time to rip the band aid off. You got
to now put a new structure. And actually one of them,
you know that we talked about in terms of the
three things that we suggested, is actually something Musk wants
(01:42):
terms of twenty five percent voting rights and what I
view is will ultimately be an XAI merger potentially, but
second third, the political gambles and this side show it
can't continue.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
You know, analysts were totally seemed totally fine with Elon
Musk and correct me if I'm wrong. They seemed totally
fine with him when he was getting along well with
President Trump and it seemed like the president's policies would
favor his companies. Is that fair to.
Speaker 6 (02:09):
Say it's that's one hundred percent. I mean, I view
it is like and we talked about it. The best
ever happened to Musk at that time was Trump getting
into the White House. And obviously, you know, you could
argue Trump doesn't get into the White House if it's
not from Musk. But like a lot of things, it
took on a life of its own Doge BFFs spending
(02:31):
new time with Tesla, mar Lag or DC Doge the
brand issues That ultimately is why then Musk had to
take a step back and basically leave the Trump administration.
But in your wildest nightmare, no one expected, hey, let's
triple down start a third political party, where now Trump
(02:54):
actually becomes a foe, Republican Party becomes foe, and that
just becomes more of an overhang for Tesla.
Speaker 7 (03:02):
So the board as it exists now, is this the
board that you think can bring about the necessary changes
and set the ground rules as you are calling for Tesla?
And Jack Hartung who has been CFO of Starbucks, not
Starbucks of Chipotle, excuse me, Kimball, Reeve Musk is on it.
(03:24):
Jim Murdoch of course, Elon Robin Denholm, an Australian business
executive from her accountant chair of the Tesla board. So
I'm just trying to think, is this the board that
you think can execute the changes that need to be done?
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Well, they don't have a choice. Is I mean they
don't have a choice because they don't have a choice.
Speaker 6 (03:49):
Where the sometimes boards look if you go back to
history of Tesla, what Elon does what do he do?
You know, you can never argue a bet again. And
that's that's been the MM right, that's been the DNA.
The problem is is that clock essential. The clock strikes
(04:10):
midnight when now it comes to these political ventures and endeavors,
as well as the time spent at Tesla the board,
you're not going to have a major change or makeup
in a board that would take many years. The board now,
as a public company, needs to a new pay package.
(04:34):
We talked about twenty five percent voting shares, but then
established the guardrails because it's a public company and shareholders
are demanding and the stock reflects changes that need to
be made.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
You know, the board certainly is part of it. But
I think a bigger picture question that I have is
an existential one about Tesla Dan and that's with regard
to Chinese competition. And we've sales get hammered over the
last year, and that really the narrative has been around
Musks and his association with politics, whether we're talking about
that in the US or about that in Europe. But
(05:11):
what about the China factor? Does Tesla have what it
takes to compete around the world with Chinese EV's they have.
Speaker 6 (05:19):
What it takes with musk in the words like musk
is the biggest asset for Tesla, but they don't.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Have the products. But they don't have products that compete
at those price points and with that test.
Speaker 6 (05:29):
Yeah, so on that point, Look, it's Somoch spends time
in China like competition Bid neo X paying everything. We've
seen clearly it's become much more of a competitive market.
I just I continue to view is that Tesla is
still a gold standard globally when it comes to evs.
I think when it comes to China. Look, the big
(05:51):
game right now that they're trying to win is not
necessard about deliveries. It's about can they win the autonomous
and robotics fear.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
That book, that is the way you get to two trillion.
Speaker 6 (06:05):
The way you get through trillion dollar incremental valuation because
of autonomous is that way.
Speaker 7 (06:10):
You know, it's interesting that you say that, because one
of our producers, Sebastian Escobar, said, hey, that's great. Weaimos
are coming to my town where I live in, which
is just across from Lower Manhattan. And I'm like, wait what,
And Weimo seemed to be expanding pretty aggressively, and so
(06:32):
it does seem like folks are going after what could
be ultimately the future right of Tesla. I really autonomous works.
I mean that's where the growth comes right going forward
for Tesla in your.
Speaker 6 (06:45):
View, sure, but to that point, I look, waymos are
two in thousand dollars cars, like you're essentially in five
six cities.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Yeah, when you get the scale and scoop Tessa.
Speaker 6 (06:57):
Working about twenty twenty five cities over the next year.
When it comes to robo attack, I mean, that's the
whole opportunity, Like when you think about twenty percent of
what I view is like ride sharing over the next
four or five years is going to be autonomous, no driver.
So that's the opportunity that house is going after. But
then it goes back to politically, you can't have Trump, Duffy.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Whoever else you want to talk about for administration.
Speaker 6 (07:25):
Now as a friend, but as a foe when you
go into the most important chapter of growth and success.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
What I view on the horizon for Tessa, has has.
Speaker 7 (07:36):
Elon reached out to have you reached out to him?
Speaker 4 (07:39):
I mean, I won't comment there.
Speaker 6 (07:41):
I would just say that, like the message has definitely
been received by Elon. It's been received by the board,
and that was my goal, right, Like my goal is
is that sometimes it's like tough love, right. Like the
point is like it comes down to like if you
don't reprimand or whatever, if you like you know, it's
(08:03):
like there's good times in bad times, but this is
a time and the stock reflects it that the board,
the adults in the room, what everyone want to talk about.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
They need to weigh the guard rails.
Speaker 6 (08:18):
Out from Musk, especially around the political ambition.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
That that is the key.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Dan, How does it feel to have Elon Musk tell
you to? In all seriousness? What did it feel like
to have him tell you to shut up? On his
platform he's got I don't even know how many followers
he has. It has to be over one hundred million,
hundreds of million.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
I think it's to two.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Hundred and twenty million followers.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
How did that feel?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I mean, I imagine too as his sort of army
came after you as well, Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 6 (08:48):
You know you we knew each other. Well, It's like
I don't worry about that. I mean to me, I
just actually view it more as like he has his
right to an opinion. I disagree. I'm a huge supporter
him and Tessa, but I'm more focused on, like it
creating dialogue, like he'll say shut up Dan, and I
(09:09):
have one hundred memes sent to me about different shut
up Dan stuff and actually got in the street yesterday
yelled from New York City across the streets like shut
up Dance.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
So that's that's that's that's cool.
Speaker 6 (09:21):
But to me, it's about creating the dialogue because now
it's like, Okay, what what is the community?
Speaker 4 (09:28):
What is ship?
Speaker 6 (09:29):
I'm here from sheeralders all day? Right, that's the important thing.
What it means for the Tesla story. That's the whole goal.
Speaker 7 (09:37):
I wonder has the board reached out to you and said, hey,
thanks Stan for that.
Speaker 8 (09:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (09:45):
No, I mean I just the good thing is like
I feel like I definitely feel like this message has
been received by the you know, I think everyone's seeing it.
And at least now now it comes down to, like, Okay,
are there actions? Like does what does the board do
with the next pay package? Remember is the other fifty
(10:06):
six billion dollar pay package is still in the legal
sort of wimbow because of Delaware Foxy still hasn't been
you know, ultimately sent that's.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Been the wait.
Speaker 6 (10:17):
So this is a key period of time for the
board from Musk.
Speaker 7 (10:22):
Another message that was received for the World of Elon
Musk was from the CEO of X, Linda Yakarino, stepping
down a CEO after two years post on X decided
to step down as CEO. I'll be cheering you all
as you continue to change the world. What's your view
on that? What's how do we read?
Speaker 6 (10:43):
I think I have a very positive view of her,
right besides the fact that she's a Penn stater.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
We are.
Speaker 7 (10:51):
All right, Mike, come back, let's see you know.
Speaker 6 (10:53):
But my view is she turned around X. She now
gated massive political storm, right. I think very few people
could have done the advertising.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
I think a lot of it has rebound. There's still
obviously queer headwinds.
Speaker 9 (11:11):
But I think like this is like, look, it's huge
shoes to fill, Like it is a big hole, hard weaving,
because she is a unique background, because of advertising, because
of her personality.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
I think she got along very well with Musk.
Speaker 6 (11:27):
So it is it is a huge you know what
I view, it's a negative. But now it comes down
like who fills that role?
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Interesting stuff. Listen.
Speaker 7 (11:39):
We're so glad we could catch up with you.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Thanks for taking about the beer.
Speaker 7 (11:43):
Yeah, we really, we really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
I'm so glad to be here and talk.
Speaker 6 (11:46):
And this is a to you know, get the popcorn out.
A lot of soap operas ahead.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
We'll hack you know, if you want to, if you
want to not be yelled on the street down, you're
gonna have to tone down the wardrobe a little bit
and go incognito and and not wear the signature. Dan
Ives closed. I don't know you need to go incognito,
but you know I love it. We love it. Dan Ives,
global head of Technology research at Webush Securities, joining us
from New York.
Speaker 10 (12:13):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live
each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on applecar Play
and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can
also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New
York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 7 (12:31):
There's been a lot going on out of the White
House when it comes to possible new tariffs and trade deals,
or at least progress too. We did have the President
unveiling a new round of tariff demand letters earlier today,
with Levy set to hit in August on important goods
from partners who fail to reach agreements with the US,
so he said he would levy different rates on various countries.
(12:52):
That includes a thirty percent rate on Algeria, Libya, Iraq,
and Sri Lanka, and a twenty percent rate on goods
from the Philippines. So there's a lot going on, and Tim,
we've got a great voice to really talk about what
is a really important trade relationship, and that has to
do with the relationship between United States and Asia overall.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Wendy Kullor is Vice president the Asia Society Policy Institute.
She spent nearly three decades as a diplomat and negotiator
in the Office of the US Trade Representative. She also
served there as acting Deputy USTR. She joins US from Washington,
d C, where she's Managing director of the DC Office. Wendy,
thanks for joining us this afternoon. The President postponed the
imposition of those April second tariffs to August. First, we
(13:37):
did learn that earlier this week. What is your read
on that.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
My read is that they weren't ready to announce more
deals and so here we are. Remember we were expecting
ninety deals in ninety days. We have two deals that
have been announced, and frankly, the deal with Vietnam seems
to be still under negotiation. And so these let us
have been sent out in forming countries of their teriff
(14:03):
rights that will come into effect on August one. And
I think we're going to see more letters, but we're
certainly seeing more letters than deals.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
So h a letter is not a deal.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
In other words, a letter is not a deal.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
You do not want to get a letter. If you're
a trading partner. It's an honor not to get a
letter at this.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Point, because what it's pressure.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
No, if you don't get a letter, that at least
means that you're negotiating in good faith and that the
administration thinks there's a way forward with you. I think
with respect to the other countries, it demonstrates that there's
a lot of frustration on part of the White House
and they're going to take action against these countries if
things don't fall into place over the next three weeks.
Speaker 7 (14:48):
You know, Wendy, I keep thinking about, like, what's the
big thing piece. I don't know, is it two years
from now? Three years from now, five years, ten twenty,
when we look back at this errand say, wow, we
had a president who was really thinking about agreements that
maybe weren't in the best interests of the United States
and really sent the US on a greater trajectory, or
do we look back I can possibly say wow, this
(15:10):
was a moment when the US really just lost its
place in the world, Like, how can we start to
even think about that yet?
Speaker 5 (15:17):
Well, let me respond to your second point, because, as
someone who has worked closely with our Asian partners over decades,
I'm very concerned about the messages message we are sending
them now and it's long term implications, and particularly when
a few days ago the first letters went out to
our two closest allies, Japan and Korea. Now, granted, they
(15:41):
have high trade deficits with US, but they've been great partners,
not only with respect to our security relationship, but on
economic security matters including supply chains and shipbuilding and semiconductors
and export controls and just massive amounts of foreigned investment
in the United States. It almost looks like they're getting
(16:03):
zero credit for any of that as long as they
have a bilateral trade deficit.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
In your view, have any of these countries treated the
US unfairly?
Speaker 5 (16:14):
Look, many of these countries have unfair trading practices, and
they have unfair barriers that they impose against US exports.
Guess what we do too, and that's why, through trade
negotiations you try and get rid of those barriers. But
at least during my career is more on a mutual basis.
(16:35):
It wasn't this kind of one sided negotiation where we're
telling the other countries this is what you need to
do or else going to we are going to make
it very difficult for you to access our market.
Speaker 7 (16:49):
What are the implications you think longer term in terms
of the US economy because of these deals?
Speaker 5 (16:54):
Well, I guess there is an optimistic note to this.
I think people of time are going to recognize how
important trade is, and how trade has contributed to the
lower prices and to a greater assortment of goods and
access to many goods that we would never have seen
or have been able to enjoy without trade. But putting
(17:19):
that aside, I think that you know, the economic fallout
is going to be severe if indeed all these tariffs
come into effect. But that said, as a former trade negotiator.
Three weeks is still a chunk of time for trade
deals to come together, and so we may see deals
(17:40):
coming together, you know, by next month, all.
Speaker 7 (17:43):
Right, and we hope we can lean on you again
to make some sense out of those trade deals as
they are done. Wendy, thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Wendy Cutler.
Speaker 7 (17:50):
She's vice president of the Asia Society Policy Institute. As
we mentioned, she was also a former acting deputy for
the US Trade Representative and spent a long time time
as a diplomat three decades in the Office of the
US Trade Representative.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live
each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Applecarflay, and
Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also
listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,
Just say Alexa, Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Then Vidia making history today the market cap topping four
trillion dollars, the chip maker becoming the first company in
history to achieve this milestone. Ian King is Bloomberg News
US Semiconductor and networking reporter. He joins us from our
San Francisco bureau. Ian just remind everybody. How long you've
been covering the semiconductor space.
Speaker 11 (18:44):
Quite a long time, more than twenty years.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
More than twenty years in Vidia, more than twenty years
old as a company, It's gone through many different iterations.
This iteration now is the one certainly that's getting the
most attention. Is this company a cyclical company because it's
in the semiconductor space? Is this part of the cycle
right now?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
I mean, there are a couple of ways to read that.
Speaker 11 (19:08):
Every company in the semiconductor industry is a cyclical company,
because the semiconductor industry is by its nature cyclical.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
How long these cycles last when they pee control?
Speaker 11 (19:19):
That's something that a lot brighter people than me try
to pick and choose from, and that's how you make
your money as an investor. What we can say is
just by the numbers alone, that it's an unprecedented territory.
The you know, where its revenue is. Not to mention
its market cap, as you just pointed out, we've never
seen anything like this.
Speaker 7 (19:40):
Does it make sense to you someone who understands this
industry and has followed it for so long, I think.
Speaker 11 (19:47):
You have to just fall back on the numbers, Carol,
and investor decide whether it makes any sense. So on
a price to winnings ratio fifty two times doesn't sound
totally crazy, and that doesn't even get it in to
the top ten list of semiconductor makers, so relatively it's
not that expensive. No other semi conductor company has ever
(20:09):
had more than one hundred billion dollars of revenue over
not even Intel at its peak Invidiablue past one hundred
and twenty last year. This year, it's probably going to
be closer to two hundred. So again, the numbers say
it's achieving all every more than any of the chip
maker has ever achieved, and it's still doing that at
a relatively profitable rate.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
There's also a report out there.
Speaker 7 (20:32):
I think it's the FT today, and it's Nvidia planning
to launch a new AI chip design specifically for China
sooner September, with Jensen expected to Jensen Loong, of course,
planning a visit to reassert the company's commitment to the country. Again,
I'm just reporting what FT is saying. I'm just curious
what you're hearing about that, or is it also just
(20:52):
a sign of him trying to kind of continuing to
figure out his next market move and where he needs
to be and making sure he's kind of getting to
all the possible customer audiences that are out there.
Speaker 11 (21:06):
I think the way to look at that kind of
reporting and the reporting that we've done on this area
is this, This is the one kind of cloud on
the horizon for this company, which is China is the
largest market in the world for semiconductors. That company, sorry,
that country and its companies want to spend a ton
(21:26):
of money on AI infrastructure. They cannot spend money on
in video chips because of the US government. So Jensen
is going to probably be in Washington soon, it's going
to be in Beijing soon. He's doing lots of shuffling
between the two because he has two masters to please,
one that controls what he can do, the other that
(21:47):
can arguably pay is wages to a large extent. They
were already losing billions of dollars in revenue that they
can't because they can't sell into China. So this, you know,
is symptomatic of what he has to do. He has
to find a way do this and that'll you know,
make their growth even better than it is right now.
Long term, he's saying and arguing vehemently about this that look,
(22:08):
if we can't do business in China, they'll find another
way to do this and that will hurt us well.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Speaking of China, perhaps the perfect segue to talk about
today's big take. It's a Bloomberg exclusive. It's an analysis
that shows how China is building giant data centers in
the desert to fuel its AI ambitions, and it's looking
to buy one hundred and fifteen thousand banned in Vidio
chips to power them in You were one of the
reporters who worked on this piece. How is China going
(22:34):
to get its hands on these chips?
Speaker 11 (22:37):
I mean, it's very important to point out, as we
do in the story, that while there is some evidence
or some belief that sum of invidios band products are
making their way across the border, there's no evidence that
enough to even constitute a sort of medium sized data
center are making it across the border. So obviously this
(22:57):
is something we're monitoring, something that the GO is monitoring,
and something that you know, certainly in Video and its
customers will be held accountable for. But you know, there's
a gap between the desire and what's actually possible right
now as far as at least the reporting in that
story would indicate I also.
Speaker 7 (23:15):
Do wonder you know, it just is a reminder two
of China's own right AI ambitions and what it's looking
to do. And if it's not with n video chips,
it'll make its own or it'll figure another way.
Speaker 11 (23:29):
Yeah. I mean, there's been a lot of conversations, including
by in Video, and they're saying, look, Huawei, before all
of the actions taken by the US government against it,
was a very competent company. Of course we've slowed it down,
of course we've made it more difficult, but it's still
a very competent company. Forced into the situation that it's in,
it's going to find its own way.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
It might take it a while, but guess what it'll
get there.
Speaker 11 (23:53):
Do not underestimate it is one of the big arguments that's.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Being made there.
Speaker 11 (23:57):
And you know, perhaps if we're not going to allow
it countries, maybe they go to China.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah, that's this is this is sort of the age
old question about you know, necessity is the mother of invention, right,
if they can't get their hands on certain technology, then
they can do it themselves. But a question that I
ask you over and over againing in when you're on
with us and it's been you know, I've been asking
you this question for years. Is it about invidious mode?
And to what extent that the company can do something
(24:24):
that other companies are far behind in their ability to do.
Where does that mote stand right now?
Speaker 11 (24:29):
I mean it's we're not seeing any any filling in
of that mote. We're not seeing anybody creating a bridgehead
to use some horrible metaphors there, I mean, companies like
AMD is saying we have competitive chips and you know
there's showing some growth there, and you say, oh great,
But then you just look at the sheer amount of
spending and plan spending and projected growth, no sign of
(24:52):
any slowdown in demand for invidious products, no slut sign
of anybody catching it anytime soon.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
I think, you know, the longer terms.
Speaker 11 (25:00):
The China's situation, what's going on in terms of others
trying to make their own chips the big customers. These
are all clouds that have been on the horizon for
a long time, but in video keeps forging ahead, so
that mote still exists.
Speaker 7 (25:15):
So hmm, you know, and go back to a quick
take you did or a part of at the end of June.
You know why world powers are sparring over computer chips,
and we understand why, right they go into everything. So
is it, I don't know, it just seems like that's
just going to continue to multiply, right, And so is
it a case that there's just you know, more chip production,
(25:38):
more chip giants kind of everywhere, or is it that
we just continue to have just a few that dominate.
Speaker 11 (25:45):
Yeah, I mean the first thing is that everybody agrees
on one thing, which is underlying demand is great, you know,
whether it's for these massive data centers, or whether it's
for election vehicles, whether it's smart devices. Full stop demand
is never is unprecedented in AI. Is helping fuel that.
Where those chips get made is open to question because
(26:05):
geopolis is asserting itself. Which companies can afford to do that,
Which companies can afford to design these things? That's always
been the variable, still very concentrated in the hands of
a few, particularly making the kind of chips that in
video makes A Producing them is very expensive and B
designing them is incredibly expensive.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
So that's still likely.
Speaker 11 (26:27):
To be concentrated in the hands of a very very
few companies.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
For the foreseeable future.
Speaker 11 (26:32):
So glad we could do this.
Speaker 7 (26:33):
We just felt like there was a lot of things
coming at and with Nvidia at that four trillion market cap,
it just felt like we needed to think a little
bit about that chip space in semi space, and Ian,
you're always the right person to do it with. Ian King,
Bloomberg News US Semiconductor and Networking reporter, Thank you, Thank you.
I should point out the Socks is up almost fourteen
percent year to date.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Yesterday it was up.
Speaker 7 (26:52):
It was like the our performer it was Yepp and
that compares with about a nine just shy of a
nine percent gain in the Nasdaq one hundred, so really somelperformance.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch
us live weekday afternoons from two to five Easter and
listen on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app,
or watch us live on YouTube Mac. I'll beout you
let me drive.
Speaker 10 (27:17):
Oh no, no, no, no, this is not a twenty alright.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
Please, I'll excuse wait, I want to drive. It's a question. Good.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
This is the drive to the clothes Punks, the music
on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
It is the drive to the Clothes just fifteen minutes ago.
Until the close, let's bring in Stephen Skankees, chief economic
advisor at the Wealth Advisor keel Point. He's also former
US Treasury and White House National Seriity Council staff member.
He joins US today from Cape Canaveral, Florida. Stephen, we
wanted you on the program for a couple of reasons.
One to talk about the FED in your experience in Washington,
(28:01):
and that's where I want to start, because as we
learn from the FED meeting or the FED minutes rather,
it shows that the committee is split around inflation worries.
Do you think the FED should be concerned about inflation
or the FED should not be concerned about inflation? Right now?
Speaker 8 (28:17):
Well, thanks Tim, It's always great to be with you.
And clearly the FED needs to be concerned about inflation.
That's one of its two principal mandates.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
The reason why I guess I ask if it should
or shouldn't is because the President is not concerned about inflation,
and he says inflation is gone and the FED should
cut Yeah.
Speaker 8 (28:37):
And that's great, and that's why the FED is is
at least semi independent in the way it conducts his business,
and you know, it was it was given us mandate
by Congress to be concerned about inflation and about labor markets,
and that's what it's done. And I mean, it's great
(29:00):
that President Trump is not concerned about tariffs and inflation,
but the rest of the economy and even financial markets
are certainly have that as something that they are concerned about.
Speaker 7 (29:14):
Well, I am curious to you know, Steve, as you
guys advise your team there at kill point when it
comes to the economic outlook, we're still kind of waiting
for all of the factors to be put into kind
of the economic balance sheet when it comes to what
really will be the tariff cost, right, Like, we're waiting
and now we have to wait even longer as President
(29:36):
Trump has pushed off some of the tariffs or the
tear off deadlines until August first, so we continue to
kind of wait and see. But isn't it safe to
have an assumption we already have a ten percent tariff
in place, that there are going to be higher tariffs?
So do you think net net, there won't be much
of an economic impact and that economic impact, of course
(29:57):
then won't have such an impact. Ad or negative impact
on US based investments dollar based investments.
Speaker 8 (30:04):
Well, that's a great question, Carol, And what we're seeing
is that the tariff impacts are starting to show up
in different places in Earning's outlook, where companies have decided
that they're going to absorb some of them in what
consumers are paying. The big belief is that we'll see
(30:27):
it in the June CPI that comes out next week
and in the June PPI that also comes out next week.
Those will be first indicators. Businesses were very shrewd about
building up inventories in advance of the tariffs, and so
they've been working through those and that has helped delay
(30:52):
the impact. But I don't think anyone doubts, well certainly
no one in the business community doubts that tariffs are
going to have an impact on the prices that consumers
pay to the extent that the businesses can't absorb them
in their own profit margins.
Speaker 7 (31:08):
What does that mean you think ultimately for the US
interest rate picture? On a day when we've seen yields
all along the curve moved down, what's the longer term
thought for you when it comes to US rates? Is
it more like a ten year above five or a
ten year below four, and just got about thirty forty
seconds here.
Speaker 8 (31:27):
Well, we don't see a ten year below four. We
see it at five, maybe not too much above that.
Longer term rates are also going to be higher, and
unfortunately every effort the President makes to try to push
rates down, or say he's going to have a FED
share that's going to push rates down, really has almost
the opposite effect, And of course that's a concern in
(31:51):
our outlook.
Speaker 7 (31:52):
All right, we're going to leave it on that note, Steve,
Good to get some time with you. Steve Skankee, chief
Economic advisor at the Wealth Advisor keel Point, a former
US Treasury and White House National Security Council staff member,
joining us from Cape Canaveral, Florida on this Wednesday.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
This is the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday
afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com,
the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App.
You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube
(32:27):
and always on the Bloomberg terminal
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg business
Weekdaily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay
ahead with insight on the people, companies, and trends shaping
today's complex economy. Plus global business, finance and tech news
(00:23):
as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast with
Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
It was three words, what shut up?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Dan Oh?
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Three words?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
That's what Elon musk Wow, the wealthiest person in the world,
posted in a message on x Remember he's the wealthiest
man in the world, in response to a post from
the tech analyst dan Ives. Dan Ives is a global
head of technology research at Webush Security. He joins us
from New York. Dan I had a viewer send this
tweet to me yesterday. The response Elon telling you to
(01:01):
shut up. First of all, he was, you were making
three recommendations for what you think the company should do.
What happened there?
Speaker 5 (01:10):
Hey?
Speaker 6 (01:11):
Look, I mean I knew Elon was not gonna be happy,
But the reality is, you know, the board.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
They basically need to now step it up.
Speaker 6 (01:21):
And I think it's something where you know, I hear
from sheeralders around the world right on Tesla and it's
one of the biggest supporters of Elon and Tesla. It
was time to rip the band aid off. You got
to now put a new structure. And actually one of them,
you know that we talked about in terms of the
three things that we suggested, is actually something Musk wants
(01:42):
terms of twenty five percent voting rights and what I
view is will ultimately be an XAI merger potentially, but
second third, the political gambles and this side show it
can't continue.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
You know, analysts were totally seemed totally fine with Elon
Musk and correct me if I'm wrong. They seemed totally
fine with him when he was getting along well with
President Trump and it seemed like the president's policies would
favor his companies. Is that fair to.
Speaker 6 (02:09):
Say it's that's one hundred percent. I mean, I view
it is like and we talked about it. The best
ever happened to Musk at that time was Trump getting
into the White House. And obviously, you know, you could
argue Trump doesn't get into the White House if it's
not from Musk. But like a lot of things, it
took on a life of its own Doge BFFs spending
(02:31):
new time with Tesla, mar Lag or DC Doge the
brand issues That ultimately is why then Musk had to
take a step back and basically leave the Trump administration.
But in your wildest nightmare, no one expected, hey, let's
triple down start a third political party, where now Trump
(02:54):
actually becomes a foe, Republican Party becomes foe, and that
just becomes more of an overhang for Tesla.
Speaker 7 (03:02):
So the board as it exists now, is this the
board that you think can bring about the necessary changes
and set the ground rules as you are calling for Tesla?
And Jack Hartung who has been CFO of Starbucks, not
Starbucks of Chipotle, excuse me, Kimball, Reeve Musk is on it.
(03:24):
Jim Murdoch of course, Elon Robin Denholm, an Australian business
executive from her accountant chair of the Tesla board. So
I'm just trying to think, is this the board that
you think can execute the changes that need to be done?
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Well, they don't have a choice. Is I mean they
don't have a choice because they don't have a choice.
Speaker 6 (03:49):
Where the sometimes boards look if you go back to
history of Tesla, what Elon does what do he do?
You know, you can never argue a bet again. And
that's that's been the MM right, that's been the DNA.
The problem is is that clock essential. The clock strikes
(04:10):
midnight when now it comes to these political ventures and endeavors,
as well as the time spent at Tesla the board,
you're not going to have a major change or makeup
in a board that would take many years. The board now,
as a public company, needs to a new pay package.
(04:34):
We talked about twenty five percent voting shares, but then
established the guardrails because it's a public company and shareholders
are demanding and the stock reflects changes that need to
be made.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
You know, the board certainly is part of it. But
I think a bigger picture question that I have is
an existential one about Tesla Dan and that's with regard
to Chinese competition. And we've sales get hammered over the
last year, and that really the narrative has been around
Musks and his association with politics, whether we're talking about
that in the US or about that in Europe. But
(05:11):
what about the China factor? Does Tesla have what it
takes to compete around the world with Chinese EV's they have.
Speaker 6 (05:19):
What it takes with musk in the words like musk
is the biggest asset for Tesla, but they don't.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Have the products. But they don't have products that compete
at those price points and with that test.
Speaker 6 (05:29):
Yeah, so on that point, Look, it's Somoch spends time
in China like competition Bid neo X paying everything. We've
seen clearly it's become much more of a competitive market.
I just I continue to view is that Tesla is
still a gold standard globally when it comes to evs.
I think when it comes to China. Look, the big
(05:51):
game right now that they're trying to win is not
necessard about deliveries. It's about can they win the autonomous
and robotics fear.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
That book, that is the way you get to two trillion.
Speaker 6 (06:05):
The way you get through trillion dollar incremental valuation because
of autonomous is that way.
Speaker 7 (06:10):
You know, it's interesting that you say that, because one
of our producers, Sebastian Escobar, said, hey, that's great. Weaimos
are coming to my town where I live in, which
is just across from Lower Manhattan. And I'm like, wait what,
And Weimo seemed to be expanding pretty aggressively, and so
(06:32):
it does seem like folks are going after what could
be ultimately the future right of Tesla. I really autonomous works.
I mean that's where the growth comes right going forward
for Tesla in your.
Speaker 6 (06:45):
View, sure, but to that point, I look, waymos are
two in thousand dollars cars, like you're essentially in five
six cities.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Yeah, when you get the scale and scoop Tessa.
Speaker 6 (06:57):
Working about twenty twenty five cities over the next year.
When it comes to robo attack, I mean, that's the
whole opportunity, Like when you think about twenty percent of
what I view is like ride sharing over the next
four or five years is going to be autonomous, no driver.
So that's the opportunity that house is going after. But
then it goes back to politically, you can't have Trump, Duffy.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Whoever else you want to talk about for administration.
Speaker 6 (07:25):
Now as a friend, but as a foe when you
go into the most important chapter of growth and success.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
What I view on the horizon for Tessa, has has.
Speaker 7 (07:36):
Elon reached out to have you reached out to him?
Speaker 4 (07:39):
I mean, I won't comment there.
Speaker 6 (07:41):
I would just say that, like the message has definitely
been received by Elon. It's been received by the board,
and that was my goal, right, Like my goal is
is that sometimes it's like tough love, right. Like the
point is like it comes down to like if you
don't reprimand or whatever, if you like you know, it's
(08:03):
like there's good times in bad times, but this is
a time and the stock reflects it that the board,
the adults in the room, what everyone want to talk about.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
They need to weigh the guard rails.
Speaker 6 (08:18):
Out from Musk, especially around the political ambition.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
That that is the key.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Dan, How does it feel to have Elon Musk tell
you to? In all seriousness? What did it feel like
to have him tell you to shut up? On his
platform he's got I don't even know how many followers
he has. It has to be over one hundred million,
hundreds of million.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
I think it's to two.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Hundred and twenty million followers.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
How did that feel?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I mean, I imagine too as his sort of army
came after you as well, Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 6 (08:48):
You know you we knew each other. Well, It's like
I don't worry about that. I mean to me, I
just actually view it more as like he has his
right to an opinion. I disagree. I'm a huge supporter
him and Tessa, but I'm more focused on, like it
creating dialogue, like he'll say shut up Dan, and I
(09:09):
have one hundred memes sent to me about different shut
up Dan stuff and actually got in the street yesterday
yelled from New York City across the streets like shut
up Dance.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
So that's that's that's that's cool.
Speaker 6 (09:21):
But to me, it's about creating the dialogue because now
it's like, Okay, what what is the community?
Speaker 4 (09:28):
What is ship?
Speaker 6 (09:29):
I'm here from sheeralders all day? Right, that's the important thing.
What it means for the Tesla story. That's the whole goal.
Speaker 7 (09:37):
I wonder has the board reached out to you and said, hey,
thanks Stan for that.
Speaker 8 (09:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (09:45):
No, I mean I just the good thing is like
I feel like I definitely feel like this message has
been received by the you know, I think everyone's seeing it.
And at least now now it comes down to, like, Okay,
are there actions? Like does what does the board do
with the next pay package? Remember is the other fifty
(10:06):
six billion dollar pay package is still in the legal
sort of wimbow because of Delaware Foxy still hasn't been
you know, ultimately sent that's.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Been the wait.
Speaker 6 (10:17):
So this is a key period of time for the
board from Musk.
Speaker 7 (10:22):
Another message that was received for the World of Elon
Musk was from the CEO of X, Linda Yakarino, stepping
down a CEO after two years post on X decided
to step down as CEO. I'll be cheering you all
as you continue to change the world. What's your view
on that? What's how do we read?
Speaker 6 (10:43):
I think I have a very positive view of her,
right besides the fact that she's a Penn stater.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
We are.
Speaker 7 (10:51):
All right, Mike, come back, let's see you know.
Speaker 6 (10:53):
But my view is she turned around X. She now
gated massive political storm, right. I think very few people
could have done the advertising.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
I think a lot of it has rebound. There's still
obviously queer headwinds.
Speaker 9 (11:11):
But I think like this is like, look, it's huge
shoes to fill, Like it is a big hole, hard weaving,
because she is a unique background, because of advertising, because
of her personality.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
I think she got along very well with Musk.
Speaker 6 (11:27):
So it is it is a huge you know what
I view, it's a negative. But now it comes down
like who fills that role?
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Interesting stuff. Listen.
Speaker 7 (11:39):
We're so glad we could catch up with you.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Thanks for taking about the beer.
Speaker 7 (11:43):
Yeah, we really, we really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
I'm so glad to be here and talk.
Speaker 6 (11:46):
And this is a to you know, get the popcorn out.
A lot of soap operas ahead.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
We'll hack you know, if you want to, if you
want to not be yelled on the street down, you're
gonna have to tone down the wardrobe a little bit
and go incognito and and not wear the signature. Dan
Ives closed. I don't know you need to go incognito,
but you know I love it. We love it. Dan Ives,
global head of Technology research at Webush Securities, joining us
from New York.
Speaker 10 (12:13):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live
each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on applecar Play
and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can
also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New
York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 7 (12:31):
There's been a lot going on out of the White
House when it comes to possible new tariffs and trade deals,
or at least progress too. We did have the President
unveiling a new round of tariff demand letters earlier today,
with Levy set to hit in August on important goods
from partners who fail to reach agreements with the US,
so he said he would levy different rates on various countries.
(12:52):
That includes a thirty percent rate on Algeria, Libya, Iraq,
and Sri Lanka, and a twenty percent rate on goods
from the Philippines. So there's a lot going on, and Tim,
we've got a great voice to really talk about what
is a really important trade relationship, and that has to
do with the relationship between United States and Asia overall.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Wendy Kullor is Vice president the Asia Society Policy Institute.
She spent nearly three decades as a diplomat and negotiator
in the Office of the US Trade Representative. She also
served there as acting Deputy USTR. She joins US from Washington,
d C, where she's Managing director of the DC Office. Wendy,
thanks for joining us this afternoon. The President postponed the
imposition of those April second tariffs to August. First, we
(13:37):
did learn that earlier this week. What is your read
on that.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
My read is that they weren't ready to announce more
deals and so here we are. Remember we were expecting
ninety deals in ninety days. We have two deals that
have been announced, and frankly, the deal with Vietnam seems
to be still under negotiation. And so these let us
have been sent out in forming countries of their teriff
(14:03):
rights that will come into effect on August one. And
I think we're going to see more letters, but we're
certainly seeing more letters than deals.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
So h a letter is not a deal.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
In other words, a letter is not a deal.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
You do not want to get a letter. If you're
a trading partner. It's an honor not to get a
letter at this.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Point, because what it's pressure.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
No, if you don't get a letter, that at least
means that you're negotiating in good faith and that the
administration thinks there's a way forward with you. I think
with respect to the other countries, it demonstrates that there's
a lot of frustration on part of the White House
and they're going to take action against these countries if
things don't fall into place over the next three weeks.
Speaker 7 (14:48):
You know, Wendy, I keep thinking about, like, what's the
big thing piece. I don't know, is it two years
from now? Three years from now, five years, ten twenty,
when we look back at this errand say, wow, we
had a president who was really thinking about agreements that
maybe weren't in the best interests of the United States
and really sent the US on a greater trajectory, or
do we look back I can possibly say wow, this
(15:10):
was a moment when the US really just lost its
place in the world, Like, how can we start to
even think about that yet?
Speaker 5 (15:17):
Well, let me respond to your second point, because, as
someone who has worked closely with our Asian partners over decades,
I'm very concerned about the messages message we are sending
them now and it's long term implications, and particularly when
a few days ago the first letters went out to
our two closest allies, Japan and Korea. Now, granted, they
(15:41):
have high trade deficits with US, but they've been great partners,
not only with respect to our security relationship, but on
economic security matters including supply chains and shipbuilding and semiconductors
and export controls and just massive amounts of foreigned investment
in the United States. It almost looks like they're getting
(16:03):
zero credit for any of that as long as they
have a bilateral trade deficit.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
In your view, have any of these countries treated the
US unfairly?
Speaker 5 (16:14):
Look, many of these countries have unfair trading practices, and
they have unfair barriers that they impose against US exports.
Guess what we do too, and that's why, through trade
negotiations you try and get rid of those barriers. But
at least during my career is more on a mutual basis.
(16:35):
It wasn't this kind of one sided negotiation where we're
telling the other countries this is what you need to
do or else going to we are going to make
it very difficult for you to access our market.
Speaker 7 (16:49):
What are the implications you think longer term in terms
of the US economy because of these deals?
Speaker 5 (16:54):
Well, I guess there is an optimistic note to this.
I think people of time are going to recognize how
important trade is, and how trade has contributed to the
lower prices and to a greater assortment of goods and
access to many goods that we would never have seen
or have been able to enjoy without trade. But putting
(17:19):
that aside, I think that you know, the economic fallout
is going to be severe if indeed all these tariffs
come into effect. But that said, as a former trade negotiator.
Three weeks is still a chunk of time for trade
deals to come together, and so we may see deals
(17:40):
coming together, you know, by next month, all.
Speaker 7 (17:43):
Right, and we hope we can lean on you again
to make some sense out of those trade deals as
they are done. Wendy, thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Wendy Cutler.
Speaker 7 (17:50):
She's vice president of the Asia Society Policy Institute. As
we mentioned, she was also a former acting deputy for
the US Trade Representative and spent a long time time
as a diplomat three decades in the Office of the
US Trade Representative.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live
each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Applecarflay, and
Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also
listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,
Just say Alexa, Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Then Vidia making history today the market cap topping four
trillion dollars, the chip maker becoming the first company in
history to achieve this milestone. Ian King is Bloomberg News
US Semiconductor and networking reporter. He joins us from our
San Francisco bureau. Ian just remind everybody. How long you've
been covering the semiconductor space.
Speaker 11 (18:44):
Quite a long time, more than twenty years.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
More than twenty years in Vidia, more than twenty years
old as a company, It's gone through many different iterations.
This iteration now is the one certainly that's getting the
most attention. Is this company a cyclical company because it's
in the semiconductor space? Is this part of the cycle
right now?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
I mean, there are a couple of ways to read that.
Speaker 11 (19:08):
Every company in the semiconductor industry is a cyclical company,
because the semiconductor industry is by its nature cyclical.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
How long these cycles last when they pee control?
Speaker 11 (19:19):
That's something that a lot brighter people than me try
to pick and choose from, and that's how you make
your money as an investor. What we can say is
just by the numbers alone, that it's an unprecedented territory.
The you know, where its revenue is. Not to mention
its market cap, as you just pointed out, we've never
seen anything like this.
Speaker 7 (19:40):
Does it make sense to you someone who understands this
industry and has followed it for so long, I think.
Speaker 11 (19:47):
You have to just fall back on the numbers, Carol,
and investor decide whether it makes any sense. So on
a price to winnings ratio fifty two times doesn't sound
totally crazy, and that doesn't even get it in to
the top ten list of semiconductor makers, so relatively it's
not that expensive. No other semi conductor company has ever
(20:09):
had more than one hundred billion dollars of revenue over
not even Intel at its peak Invidiablue past one hundred
and twenty last year. This year, it's probably going to
be closer to two hundred. So again, the numbers say
it's achieving all every more than any of the chip
maker has ever achieved, and it's still doing that at
a relatively profitable rate.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
There's also a report out there.
Speaker 7 (20:32):
I think it's the FT today, and it's Nvidia planning
to launch a new AI chip design specifically for China
sooner September, with Jensen expected to Jensen Loong, of course,
planning a visit to reassert the company's commitment to the country. Again,
I'm just reporting what FT is saying. I'm just curious
what you're hearing about that, or is it also just
(20:52):
a sign of him trying to kind of continuing to
figure out his next market move and where he needs
to be and making sure he's kind of getting to
all the possible customer audiences that are out there.
Speaker 11 (21:06):
I think the way to look at that kind of
reporting and the reporting that we've done on this area
is this, This is the one kind of cloud on
the horizon for this company, which is China is the
largest market in the world for semiconductors. That company, sorry,
that country and its companies want to spend a ton
(21:26):
of money on AI infrastructure. They cannot spend money on
in video chips because of the US government. So Jensen
is going to probably be in Washington soon, it's going
to be in Beijing soon. He's doing lots of shuffling
between the two because he has two masters to please,
one that controls what he can do, the other that
(21:47):
can arguably pay is wages to a large extent. They
were already losing billions of dollars in revenue that they
can't because they can't sell into China. So this, you know,
is symptomatic of what he has to do. He has
to find a way do this and that'll you know,
make their growth even better than it is right now.
Long term, he's saying and arguing vehemently about this that look,
(22:08):
if we can't do business in China, they'll find another
way to do this and that will hurt us well.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Speaking of China, perhaps the perfect segue to talk about
today's big take. It's a Bloomberg exclusive. It's an analysis
that shows how China is building giant data centers in
the desert to fuel its AI ambitions, and it's looking
to buy one hundred and fifteen thousand banned in Vidio
chips to power them in You were one of the
reporters who worked on this piece. How is China going
(22:34):
to get its hands on these chips?
Speaker 11 (22:37):
I mean, it's very important to point out, as we
do in the story, that while there is some evidence
or some belief that sum of invidios band products are
making their way across the border, there's no evidence that
enough to even constitute a sort of medium sized data
center are making it across the border. So obviously this
(22:57):
is something we're monitoring, something that the GO is monitoring,
and something that you know, certainly in Video and its
customers will be held accountable for. But you know, there's
a gap between the desire and what's actually possible right
now as far as at least the reporting in that
story would indicate I also.
Speaker 7 (23:15):
Do wonder you know, it just is a reminder two
of China's own right AI ambitions and what it's looking
to do. And if it's not with n video chips,
it'll make its own or it'll figure another way.
Speaker 11 (23:29):
Yeah. I mean, there's been a lot of conversations, including
by in Video, and they're saying, look, Huawei, before all
of the actions taken by the US government against it,
was a very competent company. Of course we've slowed it down,
of course we've made it more difficult, but it's still
a very competent company. Forced into the situation that it's in,
it's going to find its own way.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
It might take it a while, but guess what it'll
get there.
Speaker 11 (23:53):
Do not underestimate it is one of the big arguments that's.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Being made there.
Speaker 11 (23:57):
And you know, perhaps if we're not going to allow
it countries, maybe they go to China.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah, that's this is this is sort of the age
old question about you know, necessity is the mother of invention, right,
if they can't get their hands on certain technology, then
they can do it themselves. But a question that I
ask you over and over againing in when you're on
with us and it's been you know, I've been asking
you this question for years. Is it about invidious mode?
And to what extent that the company can do something
(24:24):
that other companies are far behind in their ability to do.
Where does that mote stand right now?
Speaker 11 (24:29):
I mean it's we're not seeing any any filling in
of that mote. We're not seeing anybody creating a bridgehead
to use some horrible metaphors there, I mean, companies like
AMD is saying we have competitive chips and you know
there's showing some growth there, and you say, oh great,
But then you just look at the sheer amount of
spending and plan spending and projected growth, no sign of
(24:52):
any slowdown in demand for invidious products, no slut sign
of anybody catching it anytime soon.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
I think, you know, the longer terms.
Speaker 11 (25:00):
The China's situation, what's going on in terms of others
trying to make their own chips the big customers. These
are all clouds that have been on the horizon for
a long time, but in video keeps forging ahead, so
that mote still exists.
Speaker 7 (25:15):
So hmm, you know, and go back to a quick
take you did or a part of at the end of June.
You know why world powers are sparring over computer chips,
and we understand why, right they go into everything. So
is it, I don't know, it just seems like that's
just going to continue to multiply, right, And so is
it a case that there's just you know, more chip production,
(25:38):
more chip giants kind of everywhere, or is it that
we just continue to have just a few that dominate.
Speaker 11 (25:45):
Yeah, I mean the first thing is that everybody agrees
on one thing, which is underlying demand is great, you know,
whether it's for these massive data centers, or whether it's
for election vehicles, whether it's smart devices. Full stop demand
is never is unprecedented in AI. Is helping fuel that.
Where those chips get made is open to question because
(26:05):
geopolis is asserting itself. Which companies can afford to do that,
Which companies can afford to design these things? That's always
been the variable, still very concentrated in the hands of
a few, particularly making the kind of chips that in
video makes A Producing them is very expensive and B
designing them is incredibly expensive.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
So that's still likely.
Speaker 11 (26:27):
To be concentrated in the hands of a very very
few companies.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
For the foreseeable future.
Speaker 11 (26:32):
So glad we could do this.
Speaker 7 (26:33):
We just felt like there was a lot of things
coming at and with Nvidia at that four trillion market cap,
it just felt like we needed to think a little
bit about that chip space in semi space, and Ian,
you're always the right person to do it with. Ian King,
Bloomberg News US Semiconductor and Networking reporter, Thank you, Thank you.
I should point out the Socks is up almost fourteen
percent year to date.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Yesterday it was up.
Speaker 7 (26:52):
It was like the our performer it was Yepp and
that compares with about a nine just shy of a
nine percent gain in the Nasdaq one hundred, so really somelperformance.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch
us live weekday afternoons from two to five Easter and
listen on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app,
or watch us live on YouTube Mac. I'll beout you
let me drive.
Speaker 10 (27:17):
Oh no, no, no, no, this is not a twenty alright.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
Please, I'll excuse wait, I want to drive. It's a question. Good.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
This is the drive to the clothes Punks, the music
on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
It is the drive to the Clothes just fifteen minutes ago.
Until the close, let's bring in Stephen Skankees, chief economic
advisor at the Wealth Advisor keel Point. He's also former
US Treasury and White House National Seriity Council staff member.
He joins US today from Cape Canaveral, Florida. Stephen, we
wanted you on the program for a couple of reasons.
One to talk about the FED in your experience in Washington,
(28:01):
and that's where I want to start, because as we
learn from the FED meeting or the FED minutes rather,
it shows that the committee is split around inflation worries.
Do you think the FED should be concerned about inflation
or the FED should not be concerned about inflation? Right now?
Speaker 8 (28:17):
Well, thanks Tim, It's always great to be with you.
And clearly the FED needs to be concerned about inflation.
That's one of its two principal mandates.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
The reason why I guess I ask if it should
or shouldn't is because the President is not concerned about inflation,
and he says inflation is gone and the FED should
cut Yeah.
Speaker 8 (28:37):
And that's great, and that's why the FED is is
at least semi independent in the way it conducts his business,
and you know, it was it was given us mandate
by Congress to be concerned about inflation and about labor markets,
and that's what it's done. And I mean, it's great
(29:00):
that President Trump is not concerned about tariffs and inflation,
but the rest of the economy and even financial markets
are certainly have that as something that they are concerned about.
Speaker 7 (29:14):
Well, I am curious to you know, Steve, as you
guys advise your team there at kill point when it
comes to the economic outlook, we're still kind of waiting
for all of the factors to be put into kind
of the economic balance sheet when it comes to what
really will be the tariff cost, right, Like, we're waiting
and now we have to wait even longer as President
(29:36):
Trump has pushed off some of the tariffs or the
tear off deadlines until August first, so we continue to
kind of wait and see. But isn't it safe to
have an assumption we already have a ten percent tariff
in place, that there are going to be higher tariffs?
So do you think net net, there won't be much
of an economic impact and that economic impact, of course
(29:57):
then won't have such an impact. Ad or negative impact
on US based investments dollar based investments.
Speaker 8 (30:04):
Well, that's a great question, Carol, And what we're seeing
is that the tariff impacts are starting to show up
in different places in Earning's outlook, where companies have decided
that they're going to absorb some of them in what
consumers are paying. The big belief is that we'll see
(30:27):
it in the June CPI that comes out next week
and in the June PPI that also comes out next week.
Those will be first indicators. Businesses were very shrewd about
building up inventories in advance of the tariffs, and so
they've been working through those and that has helped delay
(30:52):
the impact. But I don't think anyone doubts, well certainly
no one in the business community doubts that tariffs are
going to have an impact on the prices that consumers
pay to the extent that the businesses can't absorb them
in their own profit margins.
Speaker 7 (31:08):
What does that mean you think ultimately for the US
interest rate picture? On a day when we've seen yields
all along the curve moved down, what's the longer term
thought for you when it comes to US rates? Is
it more like a ten year above five or a
ten year below four, and just got about thirty forty
seconds here.
Speaker 8 (31:27):
Well, we don't see a ten year below four. We
see it at five, maybe not too much above that.
Longer term rates are also going to be higher, and
unfortunately every effort the President makes to try to push
rates down, or say he's going to have a FED
share that's going to push rates down, really has almost
the opposite effect, And of course that's a concern in
(31:51):
our outlook.
Speaker 7 (31:52):
All right, we're going to leave it on that note, Steve,
Good to get some time with you. Steve Skankee, chief
Economic advisor at the Wealth Advisor keel Point, a former
US Treasury and White House National Security Council staff member,
joining us from Cape Canaveral, Florida on this Wednesday.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
This is the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday
afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com,
the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App.
You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube
(32:27):
and always on the Bloomberg terminal
Hosts And Creators
Tim Stenovec
Carol Massar
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.