February 22, 2023 • 16 mins
Over the course of the crypto winter we’ve seen companies falling like dominos. Several have filed for bankruptcy, with consequences that continue to reverberate across markets. In July 2022, Celsius became the first of the major crypto companies to seek bankruptcy protection, but it would be far from the last. Now, consumers and courts alike are grappling with what these collapses mean.
Regulators have sharpened both their rhetoric and their actions against crypto companies and individuals in the market. How are these bankruptcies informing their thinking? What precedents are they setting and what are the potential consequences for crypto?
Joining this episode to discuss the growing power and importance of bankruptcy court judges is Bloomberg reporter Steve Church.
Subscribe to the Bloomberg Crypto Newsletter at https://bloom.bg/cryptonewsletter
This podcast is produced by the Bloomberg Crypto Podcast team: Supervising producer: Vicki Vergolina, Senior Producer: Janet Babin, Producers: Sharon Beriro and Muhammad Farouk, Associate Producers: Mo Andam and Ty Butler. Sound Design/Engineer: Desta Wondirad.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg Ihad podcast, and
I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg News.
It's Wednesday, February twenty second. Over the course of this
(00:32):
crypto winter, we've seen companies falling like dominoes. Several have
filed for bankruptcy, with consequences that continue to reverberate across
markets even today. In July twenty twenty two, Celsius became
the first, but not the last, of the major crypto
companies to seek bankruptcy protection. Now, consumers and courts alike
(00:54):
are grappling with what these collapses all mean. Regulators have
sharpened both their rhetoric and their actions against crypto companies
and individuals in the market, particularly in the past few months.
How are these bankruptcies informing their thinking, what precedents are
they setting, and what are the potential consequences for crypto.
Joining me now to discuss the growing power and importance
(01:15):
of bankruptcy court judges is Bloomberg Reporto Steve Church. Steve,
Welcome to the podcast. Steve, what a pleasure to have
you on the show today. Welcome to the podcast. Great
(01:36):
to be here. You, like many of my colleagues at Bloomberg,
have found yourself caught in the crypto across his in
the past year and a bit. How is it that
you've been having to do so much reporting on what's
been happening in crypto? Oh, a simple explanation. The crash
has put several crypto companies into bankruptcy, and that means
(01:57):
I get a chance to sit in court and listen
to the confusing things that make crypto world so fascinating.
What are some of those fascinating, if confusing things, Oh,
A big question about how do you decide who's a
creditor and who's a customer. It's as if a bank
was allowed to go bankrupt. Banks are not allowed to
go bankrupt in the United States. But if a bank
(02:19):
did go bankrupt and you were a depositor, do you
own your own money? Technically you don't, So questions like
that It's becoming really more interesting in a way that
is going to cause headaches for a lot of customers
and a lot of crypto investors. I've barely asked you
any questions, and you're already blowing people's minds about whether
(02:40):
they own their own money, so I have great faith
about where this is going to go. So you've got
these big questions like what are some of the companies
that have been involved in having these things play out
in courts? Well, the biggest on the block right now
is of course FTX, the sand Bankman freed company that
collapsed it's fraud allegations. Another is a Celsius, another crypto
(03:03):
company that went bust, and it's further along an into
bankruptcy case than the others. So that's the one to
watch in terms of what judges are going to do
and how investors might be treated. Now, I have never
had the privilege of being in bankruptcy courts either on
either side of this. I've never found a bankruptcy. But
I've also never been at these hearings and at these
(03:24):
conversations what's happening in courts that's having such important precedents
for crypto. I think the main thing is how will
customers be treated? That's the most direct thing that's happening.
There's some other issues as well that a little more esoteric.
But right now, if you are a crypto customer of
say FTX or Celsius, and you had money on the platform.
(03:47):
You expect that you're going to get that money paid
back to you, But what happens or that money returned
to you because you say had an x number of
coins and you expect to get X number of coins back.
But in these cases Celsius and FTX especially, they pooled
all of your coins with everyone else's coins, and that
(04:07):
means that then they lent that money out, so those
coins are no longer on the system, that money is
no longer enough to cover what you deposited, which means
you're really not a customer anymore. You're not a depositor.
You're more like a creditor. And in traditional bankruptcies, creditors
don't get a hundred cents on the dollar, or they
(04:27):
very rarely do they get less than they are actually owed.
And that's what's driving a lot of the crypto investors
crazy because they thought their money was safe if they
read many of the disclosures and thought that their coins
they've deposited or their actual dollars that they deposited would
be segregated and kept separate, just like say a bank.
(04:49):
But as we're discovering, crypto firms are not banks. Well,
it's so funny that you say that, because that was
supposed to be the whole point of crypto is to
not be back, and now we're knowing what the downfall is.
There are some regulations that protect the little guy. In fact,
a lot of regulators you themselves as the first line
(05:10):
of defense for regular consumers, especially in the banking world.
They really want to protect the little guy more than
the big investors. And in this case, who reads all
of the disclosures. When something pops up on your computer
screen and it says click agree in order to continue,
most people click. They don't read the fine print. What
(05:31):
do you not read the seven hundred and fifty words
of legally is before you agree to things. I have
to admit I tried once many years ago and gave up.
And that's having real consequences because you know, I think
in the example of Celsius that you mentioned what the
terms of service said, and also with FDx is becoming
a real issue for the courts to consider. Yeah. In fact,
(05:53):
in Celsius, that was the key distinction for whether you
are a creditor or a customer, whether your money will
be directly return to you, or whether you have to
wait in line like everyone else and just accept a
smaller amount. And the judge looked at these terms of service,
and I think there were several hundred thousand people who
signed in terms of service in which the company Celsius said,
(06:18):
we own your money, right, we control it. You are
not segregated from anyone else. You are not protected. Those
folks are going to have some heartburn when they look
at how much they get back because they may not
get everything back. In fact, they're likely not to get
everything back that they put on the system. Right, And
if I remember your story correctly, it was something like
six hundred thousand people, which is quite a lot of
(06:40):
folks who are looking at you nowhere close to anything
like the amounts that they had deposited in the first place. Correct.
And this is why FTX is so much bigger and
so much more frustrating, because it's not several hundred thousand,
it's not six hundred thousand, it's millions. Millions of people
are in this similar boat. FTX is not as far
(07:01):
along in their case. So really, the decision on whether
all those funds were segregated and therefore maybe more protected,
has not been made yet. I don't think the FTX
lawyers who are running the show, and John Ray, the
new FTX CEO who was brought in to clean up
the mess. I don't think they've made a final decision,
or at least they haven't publicly announced the final decision
(07:23):
on how they're going to treat customer deposits. But here's
the economic reality. No matter what they decide, there is
not enough money for everybody to collect what they're owed.
And if I remember that correctly, you know that was
one of the points that a judge made in a
recent hearing on FTX that folks should not expect to
(07:44):
be able to be made whole in any capacity. Yes,
he said that. The lawyers for FTX have said that's
it's it's just the reality of the situation. The money
is not there that people wish, would wish that they
could another investigations going on to find it. But how much,
(08:04):
how many assets will be found and where it will
be found, is anybody's guests. No one expects. No one
expects one hundred percent recovery in FTX. Yeah, not even
the folks who were the most optimistic. I want to
go back to something that you said about how you
know crypto may have rejected the entire foundation of banks
and the traditional financial sector. But one big advantage to
(08:26):
customers and to consumers is rules in place that provide
some degree of consumer protection. Regulators woke up in twenty
twenty three. It seemed like on a mission they were like,
we may have missed some of the stuff in twenty
twenty one, twenty twenty two, but now we're coming for everyone.
To what extent do some of these conversations in bankruptcy courts,
(08:49):
some of these precedents that you're describing, some of these
issues that are being worked through ever inform policy, legislation
or is it more of a sentiment thing. I think
it's an indirect influence, and you put your finger on it.
Sentiment is a good word to use. What will happen
(09:10):
is there will be these outrageous findings in court that
leak into the public, and in ftx's case, millions of
people will be affected by this. That's going to create
pressure on regulators and on Congress in some indirect way.
The closest thing to a direct connection will be if
a judge makes a ruling that says, from now on,
(09:33):
if you're in bankruptcy and you're a crypto company, your
assets will be treated as an infill in blank, a security,
as money, as a commodity. If a judge makes that
kind of ruling, and it comes from a judge, say
in New York or Delaware, where the law has a
long precedent, and those judges have long reach of a
(09:54):
big reach across investors, you're going to see the professional
investor class really take hard look at how they're going
to invest in crypto companies in the future, because they
look down the line professional investors, the big hedge funds,
they look down the line and say, Okay, what if
the worst case happens and this company goes bankrupt, how
am I going to be treated? And that could inform
(10:15):
how they make their decisions, how they invest what kind
of crypto companies they invest in. How much experience do
these judges have with crypto prior to crypto prior to
the winter none. In fact, it's amazing to listen to
the judges talk about the learning curve they've gone through,
and it's been pretty impressive. The judges in New York
(10:35):
and in Delaware have spent an enormous amount of time
just learning the basics about how crypto works, and when
you hear them ask questions, you can tell they've done
their homework and they're grasping to understand. They're really trying
to get it right. It's impressive, but then again they're undergone.
Bankruptcy is famous for moving very quickly to try to
get money back, even if it seems slow by the
(10:57):
average person's review. Up next, more from Bloomberg Reports. Steve
Church on how a handful of judges are shaping the
framework of Crypto. We'll be right back. You know, one
of the things that I've noticed in talking to folks
(11:18):
about this is bankruptcy law. Nobody understands it who's not
either a report I like you who's reporting on this
twenty four seven, or a lawyer who's professionally paid to
understand it, or as you mentioned, these judges. Our colleague
Jeremy Hill, who I know you work with and who
has been on the show a couple of times, has
talked a lot about the fact that like, bankruptcy timelines
(11:39):
are different from what people might expect from your perspective.
When you're explaining that to people, like how fast can
this really move? It can move in a matter of months,
which is lightning speed in terms of contentious court cases.
If the SEC sues a crypto company to decide how
that company should treat customers, that can take years to
(11:59):
play out. But if you're in bankruptcy court and the
judge has to decide whether your account is segregated and
therefore you get back everything you put into it, or
whether it was pooled, and you really don't have control,
and so you only get back ten cents for every
dollar you put in. Those kinds of decisions create pressure,
and pressure causes the bankruptcy judges and the system itself
(12:22):
to work at a much faster rate, and so you
get to economic decisions, substantive economic decisions, much quicker in
bankruptcy court than you do in a traditional lawsuit case.
And from a consumer perspective, that's positive, right, because you know,
folks are spending less very expensive time and actually like
(12:42):
customer money potentially trying to sort these things out well.
Time and money exactly is what you say. If you're
waiting for a decision on how much you're going to
get back from FTX or from Celsius, and you have
to wait years while appeals go forward, and while the
lawyers argue about very obscure pieces of law. That's frustrating,
(13:05):
and it reduces what you're going to get back because
time costs money, right, so it's you know, the dollar
you expect to get back today is only worth eighty
cents in a couple of years. The system knows that,
and so they push to get things out as quickly
as possible. One advantage in the bankruptcy courts is that
you can get money out the door and then everyone
can argue on appeal and spend years fighting all the
(13:27):
way up to the Supreme Court. But in the meantime,
you as a credit you've got your money, You've put
it in your pocket. After six months, nine months, sometimes
it takes longer than a year or so for you
to get your money, but it's much quicker than if
you were in a traditional court system, even though you
as a consumer, still feel like it's taking a really
long time. Oh, of course, and the frustration is obvious
in each of these court hearings where you have many, many,
(13:50):
many investors on these zoom because many of the court
hearings a handle by zoom. They're on and they're talking
directly to the judge and they're asking questions. It's clear
that they are invested in the process and they're frustrating.
Some of them are very do a very good job
of making their points, but others just wind up complaining. Yeah,
you know, this is a comments and all the question
(14:12):
kind of vibe to that point, like what is the
wildest thing you've seen in one of these hearings. I
think there was one point in an FTX hearing early
on when the zoom was not quite under control of
the judge, and there were people popping up and asking questions,
or their faces would come on the screen and they
would try to interject, and the judge kept whackamling and
(14:33):
putting them, shutting them off because they're trying to get
the hearing done right. And I can imagine that can
be very frustrating for everyone involved. Yeah, you know, when
judges have to become like zoom Cole Moderatos, it truly
is twenty twenty three, and that's exactly what's been happening
in almost all these crypto hearings, not things they prepare
you for in law school. Well, Steve, thank you so
much for being on the show. I really appreciate you
(14:54):
taking the time. Great Thanks Stacy, it was great to
be here. That was Bloomberg Reports to Steve ch. You
can find more of his reporting on the Bloomberg Terminal
and on Bloomberg dot com, and be sure to check
out over twice weekly newsletter, Bloomberg Crypto. This is Bloomberg Crypto,
a daily podcast from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio. For more shows
(15:18):
from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts. Send us your comments, questions, or
suggestions for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net.
The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Vergelina. Our
senior producer is Janet Babin. Our producers are Mohammed Farouk
(15:39):
and Sharon Barrero. Our associate producers are Ty Butler and
Moses on um Desta wonder At is our engineer. Original
music by Leo Sidron. I'm Stacy Marie Schmel. We'll be
back tomorrow. The
This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg Ihad podcast, and
I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg News.
It's Wednesday, February twenty second. Over the course of this
(00:32):
crypto winter, we've seen companies falling like dominoes. Several have
filed for bankruptcy, with consequences that continue to reverberate across
markets even today. In July twenty twenty two, Celsius became
the first, but not the last, of the major crypto
companies to seek bankruptcy protection. Now, consumers and courts alike
(00:54):
are grappling with what these collapses all mean. Regulators have
sharpened both their rhetoric and their actions against crypto companies
and individuals in the market, particularly in the past few months.
How are these bankruptcies informing their thinking, what precedents are
they setting, and what are the potential consequences for crypto.
Joining me now to discuss the growing power and importance
(01:15):
of bankruptcy court judges is Bloomberg Reporto Steve Church. Steve,
Welcome to the podcast. Steve, what a pleasure to have
you on the show today. Welcome to the podcast. Great
(01:36):
to be here. You, like many of my colleagues at Bloomberg,
have found yourself caught in the crypto across his in
the past year and a bit. How is it that
you've been having to do so much reporting on what's
been happening in crypto? Oh, a simple explanation. The crash
has put several crypto companies into bankruptcy, and that means
(01:57):
I get a chance to sit in court and listen
to the confusing things that make crypto world so fascinating.
What are some of those fascinating, if confusing things, Oh,
A big question about how do you decide who's a
creditor and who's a customer. It's as if a bank
was allowed to go bankrupt. Banks are not allowed to
go bankrupt in the United States. But if a bank
(02:19):
did go bankrupt and you were a depositor, do you
own your own money? Technically you don't, So questions like
that It's becoming really more interesting in a way that
is going to cause headaches for a lot of customers
and a lot of crypto investors. I've barely asked you
any questions, and you're already blowing people's minds about whether
(02:40):
they own their own money, so I have great faith
about where this is going to go. So you've got
these big questions like what are some of the companies
that have been involved in having these things play out
in courts? Well, the biggest on the block right now
is of course FTX, the sand Bankman freed company that
collapsed it's fraud allegations. Another is a Celsius, another crypto
(03:03):
company that went bust, and it's further along an into
bankruptcy case than the others. So that's the one to
watch in terms of what judges are going to do
and how investors might be treated. Now, I have never
had the privilege of being in bankruptcy courts either on
either side of this. I've never found a bankruptcy. But
I've also never been at these hearings and at these
(03:24):
conversations what's happening in courts that's having such important precedents
for crypto. I think the main thing is how will
customers be treated? That's the most direct thing that's happening.
There's some other issues as well that a little more esoteric.
But right now, if you are a crypto customer of
say FTX or Celsius, and you had money on the platform.
(03:47):
You expect that you're going to get that money paid
back to you, But what happens or that money returned
to you because you say had an x number of
coins and you expect to get X number of coins back.
But in these cases Celsius and FTX especially, they pooled
all of your coins with everyone else's coins, and that
(04:07):
means that then they lent that money out, so those
coins are no longer on the system, that money is
no longer enough to cover what you deposited, which means
you're really not a customer anymore. You're not a depositor.
You're more like a creditor. And in traditional bankruptcies, creditors
don't get a hundred cents on the dollar, or they
(04:27):
very rarely do they get less than they are actually owed.
And that's what's driving a lot of the crypto investors
crazy because they thought their money was safe if they
read many of the disclosures and thought that their coins
they've deposited or their actual dollars that they deposited would
be segregated and kept separate, just like say a bank.
(04:49):
But as we're discovering, crypto firms are not banks. Well,
it's so funny that you say that, because that was
supposed to be the whole point of crypto is to
not be back, and now we're knowing what the downfall is.
There are some regulations that protect the little guy. In fact,
a lot of regulators you themselves as the first line
(05:10):
of defense for regular consumers, especially in the banking world.
They really want to protect the little guy more than
the big investors. And in this case, who reads all
of the disclosures. When something pops up on your computer
screen and it says click agree in order to continue,
most people click. They don't read the fine print. What
(05:31):
do you not read the seven hundred and fifty words
of legally is before you agree to things. I have
to admit I tried once many years ago and gave up.
And that's having real consequences because you know, I think
in the example of Celsius that you mentioned what the
terms of service said, and also with FDx is becoming
a real issue for the courts to consider. Yeah. In fact,
(05:53):
in Celsius, that was the key distinction for whether you
are a creditor or a customer, whether your money will
be directly return to you, or whether you have to
wait in line like everyone else and just accept a
smaller amount. And the judge looked at these terms of service,
and I think there were several hundred thousand people who
signed in terms of service in which the company Celsius said,
(06:18):
we own your money, right, we control it. You are
not segregated from anyone else. You are not protected. Those
folks are going to have some heartburn when they look
at how much they get back because they may not
get everything back. In fact, they're likely not to get
everything back that they put on the system. Right, And
if I remember your story correctly, it was something like
six hundred thousand people, which is quite a lot of
(06:40):
folks who are looking at you nowhere close to anything
like the amounts that they had deposited in the first place. Correct.
And this is why FTX is so much bigger and
so much more frustrating, because it's not several hundred thousand,
it's not six hundred thousand, it's millions. Millions of people
are in this similar boat. FTX is not as far
(07:01):
along in their case. So really, the decision on whether
all those funds were segregated and therefore maybe more protected,
has not been made yet. I don't think the FTX
lawyers who are running the show, and John Ray, the
new FTX CEO who was brought in to clean up
the mess. I don't think they've made a final decision,
or at least they haven't publicly announced the final decision
(07:23):
on how they're going to treat customer deposits. But here's
the economic reality. No matter what they decide, there is
not enough money for everybody to collect what they're owed.
And if I remember that correctly, you know that was
one of the points that a judge made in a
recent hearing on FTX that folks should not expect to
(07:44):
be able to be made whole in any capacity. Yes,
he said that. The lawyers for FTX have said that's
it's it's just the reality of the situation. The money
is not there that people wish, would wish that they
could another investigations going on to find it. But how much,
(08:04):
how many assets will be found and where it will
be found, is anybody's guests. No one expects. No one
expects one hundred percent recovery in FTX. Yeah, not even
the folks who were the most optimistic. I want to
go back to something that you said about how you
know crypto may have rejected the entire foundation of banks
and the traditional financial sector. But one big advantage to
(08:26):
customers and to consumers is rules in place that provide
some degree of consumer protection. Regulators woke up in twenty
twenty three. It seemed like on a mission they were like,
we may have missed some of the stuff in twenty
twenty one, twenty twenty two, but now we're coming for everyone.
To what extent do some of these conversations in bankruptcy courts,
(08:49):
some of these precedents that you're describing, some of these
issues that are being worked through ever inform policy, legislation
or is it more of a sentiment thing. I think
it's an indirect influence, and you put your finger on it.
Sentiment is a good word to use. What will happen
(09:10):
is there will be these outrageous findings in court that
leak into the public, and in ftx's case, millions of
people will be affected by this. That's going to create
pressure on regulators and on Congress in some indirect way.
The closest thing to a direct connection will be if
a judge makes a ruling that says, from now on,
(09:33):
if you're in bankruptcy and you're a crypto company, your
assets will be treated as an infill in blank, a security,
as money, as a commodity. If a judge makes that
kind of ruling, and it comes from a judge, say
in New York or Delaware, where the law has a
long precedent, and those judges have long reach of a
(09:54):
big reach across investors, you're going to see the professional
investor class really take hard look at how they're going
to invest in crypto companies in the future, because they
look down the line professional investors, the big hedge funds,
they look down the line and say, Okay, what if
the worst case happens and this company goes bankrupt, how
am I going to be treated? And that could inform
(10:15):
how they make their decisions, how they invest what kind
of crypto companies they invest in. How much experience do
these judges have with crypto prior to crypto prior to
the winter none. In fact, it's amazing to listen to
the judges talk about the learning curve they've gone through,
and it's been pretty impressive. The judges in New York
(10:35):
and in Delaware have spent an enormous amount of time
just learning the basics about how crypto works, and when
you hear them ask questions, you can tell they've done
their homework and they're grasping to understand. They're really trying
to get it right. It's impressive, but then again they're undergone.
Bankruptcy is famous for moving very quickly to try to
get money back, even if it seems slow by the
(10:57):
average person's review. Up next, more from Bloomberg Reports. Steve
Church on how a handful of judges are shaping the
framework of Crypto. We'll be right back. You know, one
of the things that I've noticed in talking to folks
(11:18):
about this is bankruptcy law. Nobody understands it who's not
either a report I like you who's reporting on this
twenty four seven, or a lawyer who's professionally paid to
understand it, or as you mentioned, these judges. Our colleague
Jeremy Hill, who I know you work with and who
has been on the show a couple of times, has
talked a lot about the fact that like, bankruptcy timelines
(11:39):
are different from what people might expect from your perspective.
When you're explaining that to people, like how fast can
this really move? It can move in a matter of months,
which is lightning speed in terms of contentious court cases.
If the SEC sues a crypto company to decide how
that company should treat customers, that can take years to
(11:59):
play out. But if you're in bankruptcy court and the
judge has to decide whether your account is segregated and
therefore you get back everything you put into it, or
whether it was pooled, and you really don't have control,
and so you only get back ten cents for every
dollar you put in. Those kinds of decisions create pressure,
and pressure causes the bankruptcy judges and the system itself
(12:22):
to work at a much faster rate, and so you
get to economic decisions, substantive economic decisions, much quicker in
bankruptcy court than you do in a traditional lawsuit case.
And from a consumer perspective, that's positive, right, because you know,
folks are spending less very expensive time and actually like
(12:42):
customer money potentially trying to sort these things out well.
Time and money exactly is what you say. If you're
waiting for a decision on how much you're going to
get back from FTX or from Celsius, and you have
to wait years while appeals go forward, and while the
lawyers argue about very obscure pieces of law. That's frustrating,
(13:05):
and it reduces what you're going to get back because
time costs money, right, so it's you know, the dollar
you expect to get back today is only worth eighty
cents in a couple of years. The system knows that,
and so they push to get things out as quickly
as possible. One advantage in the bankruptcy courts is that
you can get money out the door and then everyone
can argue on appeal and spend years fighting all the
(13:27):
way up to the Supreme Court. But in the meantime,
you as a credit you've got your money, You've put
it in your pocket. After six months, nine months, sometimes
it takes longer than a year or so for you
to get your money, but it's much quicker than if
you were in a traditional court system, even though you
as a consumer, still feel like it's taking a really
long time. Oh, of course, and the frustration is obvious
in each of these court hearings where you have many, many,
(13:50):
many investors on these zoom because many of the court
hearings a handle by zoom. They're on and they're talking
directly to the judge and they're asking questions. It's clear
that they are invested in the process and they're frustrating.
Some of them are very do a very good job
of making their points, but others just wind up complaining. Yeah,
you know, this is a comments and all the question
(14:12):
kind of vibe to that point, like what is the
wildest thing you've seen in one of these hearings. I
think there was one point in an FTX hearing early
on when the zoom was not quite under control of
the judge, and there were people popping up and asking questions,
or their faces would come on the screen and they
would try to interject, and the judge kept whackamling and
(14:33):
putting them, shutting them off because they're trying to get
the hearing done right. And I can imagine that can
be very frustrating for everyone involved. Yeah, you know, when
judges have to become like zoom Cole Moderatos, it truly
is twenty twenty three, and that's exactly what's been happening
in almost all these crypto hearings, not things they prepare
you for in law school. Well, Steve, thank you so
much for being on the show. I really appreciate you
(14:54):
taking the time. Great Thanks Stacy, it was great to
be here. That was Bloomberg Reports to Steve ch. You
can find more of his reporting on the Bloomberg Terminal
and on Bloomberg dot com, and be sure to check
out over twice weekly newsletter, Bloomberg Crypto. This is Bloomberg Crypto,
a daily podcast from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio. For more shows
(15:18):
from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts. Send us your comments, questions, or
suggestions for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net.
The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Vergelina. Our
senior producer is Janet Babin. Our producers are Mohammed Farouk
(15:39):
and Sharon Barrero. Our associate producers are Ty Butler and
Moses on um Desta wonder At is our engineer. Original
music by Leo Sidron. I'm Stacy Marie Schmel. We'll be
back tomorrow. The
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