May 30, 2025 • 38 mins
Watch Alix and Paul LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF.
Hosts: Paul Sweeney and Alix Steel
On this podcast:
- Kunjan Sobhani, Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Semiconductor Analyst, recaps Nvidia earnings.
- Derrick Flakoll, BNEF Lead US Policy Analyst, discusses the impact of the U.S House bill on clean energy.
- Max Abelson, Bloomberg News Finance Reporter, and Annie Massa, Bloomberg Wealth Reporter, discuss the Bloomberg Big Take story: “The Trump Family’s Money Making Machine.”
- Kurt Wagner, Bloomberg Tech Reporter, discusses the Bloomberg Big Take story: “Zuckerberg’s Bet on Maga Has Yet to Bear Fruit, While Risks Loom.”
- Mary Ross Gilbert, Bloomberg Intelligence, Senior Equity Analyst, Covering Retail, discusses Macy's earnings.
- Lindsay Dutch, Bloomberg Intelligence Consumer Hardlines Senior Analyst, discusses earnings from Dick's Sporting Goods.
- Steve Man, Bloomberg Intelligence Global Autos and Industrials Research Analyst, discusses Stellantis naming a new boss.
Bloomberg Intelligence, the research arm of Bloomberg L.P., has more than 400 professionals who provide in-depth analysis on more than 2,000 companies and 135 industries while considering strategic, equity and credit perspectives. BI also provides interactive data from over 500 independent contributors. It is available exclusively for Bloomberg Terminal subscribers.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Intelligence
with Alex Steel and Paul Sweeney.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
The real our performance has been in US corporate high yield.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Are the companies lean enough? Have they trimmed all the fats?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
The semiconductor business is a really cyclical business.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Breaking market headlines and corporate news from across the globe.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Do investors like the M and A that we've seen?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
These are two big time blue chip companies.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Window between the peak and cunt changing super fast.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Bloomberg Intelligence with Alex Steele and Paul Sweeney on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
On Today's Bloomberg Intelligence Show, we dig inside the big
business stories impacting Wall Street and the global markets.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Each and every week we provide in depth research and
data on some of the two thousand companies and one
hundred and thirty industries our analysts cover worldwide.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Today, we'll look at how Donald Trump's empire has landed
billions of dollars since his last presidential campaign kicked off.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Plus we'll discuss how sales of the department store chain
may sees are being impacted by tariffs.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
But first we begin with big tech and the world's
most valuable chip maker Nvidio.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
This week, the company gave an upbeat revenue forecast for
the current quarter, even as a slowdown in China. Wait
on first quarter results for more on why.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
We were joined by Kunjan Sabani, Bloomberg Intelligence senior semi
conductor analysts.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
We first asked Kujon for his take on Nvidia's most
recent quarter.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Yeah two big tickeabase. The GB two hundred ram continues
to be stronger than we expected or people an dissipated.
We believe based on of our math, the GB two
hundred came in three billion above expectations both in one
Q and physical two Q, which is what helped them
beat the numbers despite the significant China had been which
(01:45):
was eight billion for two Q. The second key point
was if you take out the China write down, grossmagin
actually came in better than antissipated, again suggesting the GB
two hundred yeelds and cost optimization are running better than
anticipated and we expect margins to continue to rise through
the year, exiting year at mid seventy percent, which we
(02:05):
believe was the very key a lot of key important
factor for the long time long term investors in the company.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yeah that's what you're mentioning yesterday, that making sure that
we can do that. Namidia can deliver the mid seventies
for margins at the end of the year. So are
you what are your outstanding concerns slash questions when it
comes to Nvidia, Well, the.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Number one is we really hope to hear the new
China variant and get clarity on it, which didn't happen.
There have been some rumors flying around that that might
soon happen, both from Nvidia and AMD, but as we
would like to get it officially the specs you know
what kind of asps and what sort of applications it
will be targeting to as soon as possible to put
(02:46):
those concerns at bed. The other key thing, which right
now they did help reduce the risk, which is slow
down from the hyperscas in cloud we don't see that risk.
But as we get into fiscal cue with the August
time frame, this is when hyperscalers and clouds really think
about their CAPEX budgets for next year. That will be
(03:07):
another key milestone for them.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
The revenue it gets from China, I know percent, I'm
not sure what it is. I know it's been declining,
could that go to zero? And if so, can the
stock still work if that were to go to zero.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
So at this point, the revenue from China within data
center is almost zero, right and estimates don't include anything
back from that for at least for this year, so
that's almost gone to zero. There is definitely China revenues
coming from their gaming segment and their auto segment, but
the data center, which is the real meat of it,
which was expected to They were expected to sell about
(03:43):
fifteen billion of it just this year from the H twenty,
which has almost gone to zero. So until the new
compliant chip does not come out and they start selling,
it's essentially down to zero.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Right now, we're talking about how important Middle Eastern clients
were to in video for example, and the kind of
cap that they're spending. What other growth areas or regions
do you think are going to really start delivering?
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Yeah, so a couple of key regions we are keeping
an eye out. Just like you mentioned Middle East. There
are a lot of so many entites, so just don't
think of Middle East, think of India, Japan and a
lot of other countries. Because right now having self regional
AI models, having regional AI localized data centers is national
(04:29):
priority for a lot of emerging and big countries. So
all of these regions are going have already announced, planned
and big budgets based on the respective GDPs to spend on.
So and media will be a big beneficiary of that.
US the Middle East is just a key example. Like
I said, you have other regions, especially India and Japan
investing heavily here as well. The second key driver outside
(04:51):
of the top four CSPs are going to the enterprises.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Now.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
One big example is Xai. They have announced significant big projects.
The other second example is the Target Project. So we
anticipate a lot more such projects at the enterprise level
coming in where they will start to pitch in to
robust billions of dollars of growth for NVIDIAU.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
John, what's the competitive landscape these days Nvidia versus who Yes,
The answer is yes.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
But just for theoretical purposes. The second biggest competitor in
the GPU landscape is a MD But the bigger threat
to US is the ACIK providers like the broadcoms in Marvel.
Because in terms, when you look at the TAM sizing
right now, the AMD's market is what the revenue they're
generating is still significantly small versus the ACIK market is
expected to grow faster, and that they are not a
(05:40):
direct competitor, that you don't replace out in Nvidia GPU,
that they are not emerging GPU, but they still take
away the wallets share at the same large customers, So
they could start deploying their own A six and not
rely as much on the n Media GPUs. That's a
long term risk.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Our Thanks to Kunjan Sabani, Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Semiconductor Analyst.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Each week we take a look at research from Bloomberg
NEF previously known as New Energy Finance.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
They're the team at Bloomberg that tracks and analyzes the
energy transition from commodities to power, transport, industries, buildings, and
agricultural sectors.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
This week, we looked at the final version of the
tax and spending bill passed by House Republicans and how
it represents a nightmare scenario for clean energy advocates and
defenders of the Inflation Reduction Act.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
For more, we were joined by Derek Flekel, BNEF Lead
US policy analyst.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
We first asked Derek just how bad this tax bill
from the House is for clean energy.
Speaker 6 (06:34):
Well, it's pretty bad, to be honest. Depending on which
market you're looking at, you might see more or less
severe restrictions if you look at home batteries, home electricity credits,
home solar that gets repealed outright at the end of
twenty twenty five, and if you look at utility scale stuff.
There was already some pretty severe restrictions in an earlier
(06:55):
version of this bill introduced by the Ways and Means Committee,
nearly unworkable restrictions on any kind of Chinese linked intellectual
property or supplies, as well as earlier phase outs and
a variety of other complicated barriers to usage. Now, this
final version of the bill that the House is put
out has made that even more restrictive, in part by
(07:16):
saying that only projects that begin construction within sixty days
after the bill's final signature by the President would be
able to qualify at all. So that would really restrict
it to a handful of things already in the pipeline.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
What it did seem to do, though, is give a
lot of leeway well maybe a lot too strong a word,
but leeway to commercial solar, for example, but not residential solar.
How does that make sense?
Speaker 6 (07:39):
Well, the amount of leeway is a little bit relative,
and I would say, firstly, the political logic is essentially
around the culture war element. The idea is, if you're
putting solar panels on your roof and deducting that form
your taxes to probably higher income, you're an elite, so
to speak. And so there's probably a desire to reduce
that element in terms of the sort of regional power.
(07:59):
And that's really good for Republican districts.
Speaker 7 (08:02):
A lot of them have relatively cheap land.
Speaker 6 (08:04):
It's a pretty big source of tax revenue and potentially
construction jobs. So there's an attempt to keep those at
least nominally alive. But in practice, the restriction of the
regulations on these credits make them unusable for all but
a few projects. This is an attempt to balance between
about twelve to twenty Republicans who really wanted to keep
those credits alive and practical to use and a faction
(08:27):
that really wanted to cut spending by any means necessary
and saw the IRA credits as a great place to
go for that. So in practice it looks a little
bit less restrictive, but the sheer web of complications and
limitations means that a very very small number of utility
scale projects would actually get that.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Derek Tomkin is famous for saying that companies adapt, corporations adapt,
industries adapt, people adapt. Can the clean energy industry, again
broadly defined, can it adapt and deal and grow and
in make the estments in this environment?
Speaker 7 (09:02):
I think that's going to be a very big challenge.
Speaker 6 (09:04):
Certainly, there have been opportunities to try and final alternatives
to Chinese intellectual property and suppliers from Korea and Japan.
There's progress on building factories out in the US, but
the level of uncertainty surrounding this bill is pretty high.
Even if it gets finalized in something like its current form,
you might need to wait for up to two years
to see final regulations on some of these foreign empty restrictions,
(09:28):
and that's pretty chilling to investment.
Speaker 7 (09:30):
Ultimately, we do see our.
Speaker 6 (09:33):
Model for if the credits were fully repealed beginning at
the end of twenty twenty five, still found that about
eighty three percent of renewable projects at the utility scale
but still get built, at least across solar winded storage.
But that wasn't that was a pre tariff projection. We
still are sort of thinking how those will fit together
since the tariff rates are ever changing. But fundamentally, I
(09:54):
think there will be a lot of challenges adapting to this.
There's certainly markets where there's still regulatory pushes for renewables,
there's still the fastest thing to install or the cheapest,
but ultimately the level of adaptation is going to be
fairly challenging, and fairly women had given some of the
severity of these subsidy based.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Restrictions, which is just so striking too, because this affects
sort of the supply part and the demand part, like
it hits on both angles. I was talking to the
former CEO of Sonova, which it had its own problems
including not being able to pay debt, looking at bankruptcy, etc.
Before any of this happened, and I asked him, I
was like, can these sell our companies stay in business?
Are they going to go bankrupt? And he's like bankrupt,
(10:33):
Like there's no way that they can survive. Is that
what we're going to be looking for.
Speaker 7 (10:37):
I think we're going to be looking at a few
different things.
Speaker 6 (10:39):
First of all, a lot of Chinese assets are joined investments,
like there's one with in energy and LAUNG solar in Ohio,
you might see changes in ownership there, so maybe a
bit of a consolidation. Obviously, there's a reason that for
solar stock went up. It's fairly insulated from some of
these restrictions. But at the same time, like you're going
to see in a wave of consolidation, and that does
(11:00):
mean you see some losers and some people falling out
of the market, and particularly segments that are tied to
more price sensitive sectors. When a residential solar you might
see a bigger hit to those areas as well.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Derek, I know you're at the bn EF summit in Munich.
What's the view from Europe as to what's happening to
the the Green Energy initiative in the US.
Speaker 6 (11:23):
Everybody was a little bit curious about where that's going
to stand, what's going to be permanent. Europe is often
thinking is this maybe our moment to have more investment
here because we have a bit more consistent policy through
the carbon price. But it's also dealing with its own challenges.
There's been a big focus on shifting to defense and
energy security rather than the energy transition per se. Sometimes
(11:43):
those go together, say by creating local battery storage reducing
reliance on Russian gas.
Speaker 7 (11:49):
At the same time, you see.
Speaker 6 (11:50):
A lot of both political and economic pressure to continue
using gas through a mix perhaps of US liquefied natural
gas as well as imported gas. Where As for investments
in the US that a lot of manufacturers have made
when the economic concentives of the Irara seem much more stable,
they're certainly questioning what will remain At the end of
(12:11):
the day. As I said, you're going to see shifts
and ownship. You're going to see consolidation, and depending on
the fiscal picture in Europe and the degree that you
can fit the energy transition into that energy security framework,
you could see a bit of a shift over there.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Our thanks to Derek flickl b NEF, lead US policy analyst.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Coming up, we're going to break down how Meta CEO
Mark Zuckerberg is trying to win over President Donald Trump
but may not have a lot to show for those efforts.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
You're listening to Bloomberg Intelligence on Bloomberg Radio, providing in
depth research and data on two thousand companies one hundred
and thirty industries. You can access Bloomberg Intelligence via b
I go on the terminal.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Paul Sweeney and a Malex Steel and this is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live
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Auto with the Bloomberg Business App on demand wherever you
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Speaker 3 (13:04):
We recently focused on a Bloomberg Big Take story titled
the Trump Family's Money Making Machine. You can find it
on Bloomberg dot Com and The Terminal.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
The story looks at all the ways Donald Trump and
his family have enriched themselves since his most recent presidential
campaign began.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
For more, we were joined by Max Abelson, Bloomberg News
Finance reporter, and any mass Up, Bloomberg Wealth reporter.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
We first asked Max about what Trump's money making machine is.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
If we were able to put it into one word
or one line, we really would have. Unfortunately, it does
take like four thousand words to describe because the machine
is really really big. I think the way what we
ended up deciding is that no modern American president has
ever positioned his family to make this much money while
in the White House.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
And you can't you can't.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
Oversimplify it either as a supporter or is a critic.
You can't say, oh, what he's doing is crypto, or oh,
what he's doing is licensing his name, or oh what
he's doing is going overseas or what what what the
family is doing is making corporate connections?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
That it really is.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
We ended up thinking about this as basically an atlas,
an atlas to what the Trump family is doing. To
take it seriously and to really focus on the facts
and on the numbers and on the places. It was
real work and I was actually, dare I say, even
fun to work with Anyon.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I'm trying to figure it out. Hey, l So Annie,
I mean, is this I guess part of the question
is depending on Hey, look at it. Is this legal?
Speaker 7 (14:30):
Is it ethical?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
What are the folks in Washington saying?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Well?
Speaker 5 (14:35):
So.
Speaker 8 (14:35):
One of the challenges of working on the story was
that almost week by week there would be new details
to add. And I think what Max and I found
was that to go through each of these different categories.
We covered real estate, we covered crypto, We covered this
kind of grab bag of other ventures that the Trump
(14:57):
family has become involved in. You have to go really
deep into each one, and there's a high velocity of
new deals coming now from the ethical standpoint, what the
Trump family has decided to do is they've issued an
ethics plan for Trump's second term, as they did in
(15:18):
his first term. The way that they've handled it is
by putting President Trump's assets in a trust which is
overseen by his son, Donald Trump Junior. But there are
some differences in the ethics plan of Trump's first term
and his second term this time around. As we note
in the story, the ban on new foreign deals that
(15:40):
existed last time is no longer in place, and you
can see the new deals popping up all the time.
Speaker 5 (15:47):
I found it very liberating actually to in our work
rather than putting ourselves in a position where we wanted
to say Trump is the most amazing president and everything
he does is amazing, or being a position where we
have to say Trump is the worst president and everything
he does is illegal. What we tried to do is
just to understand, peace by piece, the way the family
is making money, and it was helpful to just use
(16:08):
Trump's own words and own plan. Last time around, in
the first administration, he was unwilling for the family to
do new deals around the world. This time the family
is embracing deals around the world. And by their own account,
what they're not allowing is deals with foreign governments. And
when Andy and I look closely, what we found is
(16:30):
that there are some deals, especially in Oman, especially in
Cutter that really test the edge of that agreement. They
are with arms of governments. Now it may not necessarily
be the Trump organization doing these deals. Sometimes their entities
kind of in between. There's this one developer called dar Global.
So what we're hoping listeners out there will do is
(16:50):
read our story because we really tried to vary carefully
without doing anything but the facts, just really tried to
understand everything about this money making machine.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
How much of this money making machine are real deals
based on properties and hotels, and how much of it
are like NFTs and capitalizing more on the celebrity that
is President Trump.
Speaker 8 (17:13):
Everyone kind of knows that Trump real estate Empire has
in many ways moved for a long time, been moving
toward licensing the Trump brand for hotels and developments. That's
a big that's a big part of what they do now.
But what's new or in the second term, is you
see his sons Eric Trump and Donald Trump Junior joining
(17:36):
the boards of companies both private and public, and lending
the name in a way to those companies, and what
tends to happen when they join, either in an executive
role or as advisors is, at least in the case
of public companies, sometimes the share price of those companies
will go flying. So it shows the celebrity to your
(17:59):
point and name that they bring into the business world,
into all these different ventures, including in crypto, but in
other realms too, like prediction markets.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
And to be fair, what Donald Trump Junior will say,
and what he said to us is I'm a private citizen.
I've been a businessman all my life. It's ridiculous to
expect me to stop doing what I do just because
my dad is president.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
And that what Donald Trump will say.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
A White House pokes versus said to us is you know,
I'm transparent and I handed over this multi billion dollar
empire to serve our country. The White House described at
President Trump as making a great sacrifice. I think it's
really helpful though, to just look at the numbers, and
I just want to quickly mention what we found is
that the Trump name is powering more than ten billion
(18:43):
dollars of real estate projects since the re election campaign began.
A multi billion dollar valuation for the social media company,
A money losing social media company that just went public.
I mean, you forget it went public last year, plus
the money from crypto, plus the money from corporate connections,
I think it's worth taking your time to kind of
wrap your arms around it, because it really is sort of,
I guess, unlike anything I've ever reported on.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
All right, thanks to Max Abelson and Bloomberg News Finance
reporter and Annie Massa Bloomberg Wealth reporter. This week we
looked at another Bloomberg Big Take story titled Zuckerberg's bet
on Maga has Yet to Bear Fruit. You can find
it on Bloomberg dot Com and The Terminal.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
The story looks at how Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg has
done everything he can do to win over President Donald Trump,
but it's not yet clear he has much to show
for it.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
From where we were joined by one of the story's
co authors, Kurt Wagner, Bloomberg News Tech reporter, and we
first asked Kurt what Mark Zuckerberg's strategy has been to
get on President Trump's good side.
Speaker 9 (19:36):
We noticed this starting in January, actually slightly before the inauguration.
In January, Mark Zuckerberg showed up at mar Alago for
a dinner with Trump, which was something that was notable
not just because of who Mark Zuckerberg is, but because
of the contentious relationship that they have had for years,
ever since Facebook and Instagram banned Donald Trump after the
(19:56):
January sixth riots at the Capitol. And so he goes
to mar aw Lago, he shows up at the inauguration,
he starts making frequent trips to the White House to
meet with Trump and other officials in the administration. And
so we just sort of set out to figure out
what is this strategy here? Right on the one hand,
it seems somewhat obvious everyone you know, wants to be
close to that center of power in DC and build
(20:18):
those relationships. But given the history between these two men,
it was very notable, like is this a shift in
Mark Zuckerberg's personal politics or is this just him simply
trying to play this political game. And I think through
the reporting and interviews that we did, I think what
we sort of came to see was this picture of
a CEO who's less tied to his own specific, you know,
(20:41):
political ideals and more a sense of self preservation.
Speaker 10 (20:45):
Right.
Speaker 9 (20:45):
He's someone who out to try and make sure that
he and his company survive. And that's what this is
all about.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Which was so striking in your piece, because what came
up for me is that no one seems to like
Mark Zuckerberg, whether you're a Democrat or a public and
everyone seems to ignore him and not like him. So
to your point, it's really about the political showmanship.
Speaker 9 (21:06):
I think he's an easy person for people to point to,
right We've seen this for years in Congress, Like when
things go poorly, it's it's easy to point to Facebook.
It's easy to point to Mark Zuckerberg. What happens in
the world, what happens in society usually happens on their products,
on their platform. So they end up sort of, in
some ways they totally deserve a lot of this blame.
(21:28):
In some ways they don't, but they get it anyway.
And I think Mark Zuckerberg, you know, has been a
uniting person in DC in that both sides of the
political ais'll dislike him historically, and so on the one hand,
you can understand, you know, why he would want to
try and forge this relationship with President Trump. On the
other hand, it's it's unclear if it's working and I
(21:51):
think that we have sort of to this point not
seen the returns on those efforts from him. There's a
bunch of stuff that that meta is still facing in
terms of regulation and politics that are that are hard
for the company, and I'm not sure that he's quite
gotten the return that he wanted.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Yet he bought a mansion in Washington, d C. He
being Mark Zuckerberg. What's that about.
Speaker 9 (22:11):
Yeah, twenty three million dollars, you know, as we all
do by I believe, like a fourth home. I think
the idea there is that he's just going to simply
be in DC a lot more, especially over these next
four years. I think it's certainly a signal to not
only the administration but others on on Capitol Hill that hey,
(22:31):
I'm going to be a regular presence here and and
you're going to see me around. I want to be involved.
It's a change of posture for him for the you know,
the prior four years, or at least the prior two years,
he had really sort of handed the policy and politics
part of the business over to Nick Clegg, who was
the former Deputy Prime Minister of the UK. But Clegg
(22:52):
announced that he's leaving shortly after the election, and I
think Mark Zuckerberg has sort of picked up that baton
and he sort of said, you know, I need to
be the person to do this. Donald Trump doesn't want
to deal with a number two or a number three
at any company, right, President Trump wants to deal with
the CEO. And I think Mark Zuckerberg knows that, which
is why he's showing up in DC himself as often
as he is.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
What you also talk about in the piece is just
the contrast between Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg, like two entrepreneurs,
incredibly brilliant starting different companies, and just how politically their
paths have diverged.
Speaker 9 (23:23):
Yeah, we had the section and the story about how
it was described as as sort of Elon envy on
Mark Zuckerberg's part, So you can kind of imagine he's
for years kind of getting grilled, as we talked about
by politicians on both sides. He did spend a lot
of time, at least a few years ago, apologizing, right, hey,
we need to do better, We're going to do better,
(23:43):
kind of like trying to appease everybody to no success.
And meanwhile, you look out if you're Mark Zuckerberg and
you see what Elon Musk is doing, and he's pretty
much just doing whatever he wants, you know, Consequences be damned,
And I think they're developed the sense of like, why
am I out here apologizing? And why am I out
here trying to please everybody and play down the middle
(24:05):
and all this stuff when you know he's out there
he being Elon picking aside donating you know, hundreds of
millions of dollars to the Trump campaign, literally campaigning for
the president while running a social network, and there seems
to be no repercussions. And so I think over time
he developed, like I said, this, like Elon envy, this
sense that maybe I'm doing it wrong and he's doing
(24:25):
it right. And I think we've seen some of that
sort of show up in the way we see Mark
Zuckerberg last you know, six to twelve months. He's a
lot less. He's an unapologetic guy as far as how
he used to be. And I think I think Elon
has a lot to do with.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
That o right.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Thanks to Kurt Wagner, Bloomberg News tech reporter, coming up.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
In the program will break down why the sporting goods
retailer Dick Sporting Goods is maintaining his annual sales and
profit forecast.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
You're listening to Bloomberg Intelligence on Bloomberg Radio, providing in
depth research and data on two thousand companies and one
hundred and thirty industries. You can access Bloomberg Intelligence via
b I go on the terminal.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
I'm Paul Sweeney and am Malex Steel, and this is bloom.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android
Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever
you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
This week, the department store chain Macy's posted better than
expected quarterly sales and maintain its sales outlook for the
current year. This comes to spite new tariffs and moderation
in consumer spending.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Meantime, the clothing retailer Abercrombie and Fitch raised it's full
your outlook, showing confidence in its ability to navigate the
changing tear of landscape.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
For more on these companies, we were joined by Mary
Ross Gilbert Bloomberg Intelligence, senior equity analysts covering retail.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
We first asked Mary for her key takeaways. On Macy's
most recent quarter.
Speaker 11 (25:47):
I think the green shoots here is that Macy's is
showing some traction here with their refresh strategy. When you
look at their one hundred and twenty five stores that
they've refreshed, and they've expanded that to include some additional stores.
Their comp sales were down about two percent. About one
point nine is the figure that they're using. And you know, look,
(26:08):
Dillard's outperformed because they were down one percent, so they're
getting better. But where they really need to improve is
on the service levels. Where you also saw strength here
is really on the luxury side, and that's Bloomingdale's. Bloomingdale's
was up three point eight percent and Blue Mercury, which
is their beauty specialty beauty growth concept, and that was
(26:29):
up one and a half percent. So that's where you're
really seeing strength. But it's such a small piece of
the business. It's really all about the Nacy's name plate,
and we still need to see better traction there, but
it's getting better and better. And with regard to the
tariff hits, it's going to be about twenty to forty
basis points, so very manageable. They directly source about you know,
(26:50):
we estimate that their private label business is about thirteen
to fourteen percent. That's on a consolidated basis of sales,
and so there sourcing about twenty seven percent from China directly.
So they have a number of initiatives that are helping
them to offset the full effect of tariffs, which you'll
see the biggest hit in the second quarter, but for
(27:11):
the full year, it's very manageable, you know, in that
twenty to forty basis point impact.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Mary for Macy's, are they comfortable with their store footprint
these days?
Speaker 11 (27:23):
So, Paul, they're reducing their store footprint with the Macy's
name plate, with some of the stores that they're closing.
They've already closed sixty four. The total that they plan
to close is one hundred and fifty. So they sort
of feel like the go forward store base is about
three hundred and fifty stores. But right now there's a
little bit of a pause, you know, just because of
(27:44):
the real estate market and some of the store closures
that they have planned for this year. But yes, no,
they need to take that store base down.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
All right.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Let's go to the other one on the highlight here
Abercromme and Fisch I'm kind of floored by this. Like
we saw it with Urban, it with the American Eagle, Like
these specialty stores, they seem to be somewhat cyclical in nature,
and they're crushing it right now.
Speaker 11 (28:07):
Yeah, I mean, you can say Abercrombie is crushing it.
They kind of are. But I mean, if you look
at the namesake brand, the Abercrombie and Fitch brand, that
was actually down ten percent on a comp sales basis,
but in all fairness, they were going against a twenty
nine percent increase in the prior year. First quarter in
a way you'd say, look, that's no excuse. And certainly
(28:28):
they were impacted in the quarter by lower average unit retail.
That was because they had some carryover inventory from the
winter season, and also it looks like they had a
little bit of a miss on their bridle, you know,
the wedding business. But where they did have some strength
was in swim They really chased after it. So they've
really got a good sort of summer shop going, and
(28:50):
they expect that Abercrombie will inflect back to positive in
the second half of the year. Where you really saw
the strength was Hollister. So Hollister turned in a nice
twenty three percent comp sales gain, and that was on
top of a double digit gain last year, So they're
really hitting it out of the ballpark, you know with
the team gen Z retail customer there.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Hey, Mary, what are the Macy's and the Amber Crombies
of the world. What are they saying about the consumer
right now?
Speaker 11 (29:18):
Yeah, so Macy's is taking a very cautious perspective on
the consumer. We think the consumer is pretty resilient. I mean,
clearly at the higher end they're more resilient than at
the lower end, and there's some caution in there, but generally,
I would say, you know, when we have employment levels,
you know, in that sort of unemployment levels in that
sort of four percent range, that's really full employment. And
(29:41):
when you're employed, you feel good about spending money. So
we really think it's holding up. We think there's retailers
are taking a cautious conservative approach hoping to be able
to beat and we think they probably can, particularly as
we get into the back half of the year and
they're able to delay more of the tariff impact as well.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Our thanks to Mary Ross Gilbert Bloomberg Intelligence senior equity
analysts covering.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Retail We move next to news from the sporting goods
retailer Dick's Sporting Goods.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
This week, the company said it maintained it's annual sales
and profit FORCAS and this can be viewed us a
sign of strength as the retailer prepares to require the
struggling footwear chain Footlocker.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
For more.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
We were joined by Lindsay Dutch, Bloomberg Intelligence Consumer Hardline
Senior analyst.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
We first asked Lindsay for her key takeaways from quarterly
results at dick Sporting Goods.
Speaker 12 (30:25):
Yes, so the numbers Dix did pre announce when they
announced their footlocker deal a couple of weeks ago, and
numbers were in line with their pre announcement. But the
key focus was that guidance what they left where they
said it at the beginning of the year, and it
really tells us, you know, combined with the strong first
quarter results, that demand is holding very strong for this
(30:45):
company and we should continue to see growth in coming
quarters and tariffs with the rising costs, there should be
manageable for the rest of the year.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
What changed because I feel like before earning season, we
thought this was going to be just like total disaster
for retailers came to tariffs, it is something fundamentally changed,
or do we just not give them enough credit?
Speaker 12 (31:04):
So I think Dix might not be a barometer for
retailers across the board. I think they're uniquely positioned in
a couple of ways. One is that their consumer base
is a higher income consumer. That consumer has been holding
up pretty well, and we haven't seen a change, you know,
in the spending patterns for them yet. The other piece
(31:25):
I would say is, you know, Dix has done a
really great job improving their assortment, and because they carry
you know, premium brands, they are in a very good
position to pass through these higher costs to that consumer.
And we expect that more affluent consumer to continue to
spend a Nike even if it's five percent higher in
(31:48):
terms of the shoe that you're picking. So it is manageable,
you know, for Dix, and you know that might not
be the case across the board, but they are positioned
to do so.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Linda guessing that my sneakers are not stitched in pure
at Illinois, So what are they saying about tariffs and
the impact on their margins?
Speaker 12 (32:09):
Right, So we haven't gotten a lot of specific details,
but in the guidance that they are still expecting about
seventy five basis points of gross margin expansion this year,
so that expectation of growing margin is still in place.
Like I said, I think that they're looking to pass
those higher costs on to consumers. So that's sort of
(32:32):
a margin neutral impact. And the way they're getting the
expansion on the margin line is, you know, Dix has
really pulled back on promotions. They don't really offer blanket discounts.
You never see twenty percent off the entire site, not
even on Black Friday. They just don't do that anymore.
And they haven't really done that since the pandemic, you know,
once they saw that consumers really are interested in sports
(32:56):
fitness at leisure, they will pay the full price and
they could plan to continue to sell through on the
full price for the rest of the year.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
What other stocks in your coverage are holding up surprisingly well.
Speaker 12 (33:12):
Yeah, so that's a great question, Alex. So we had
william Sonoma report last week and they too held their
guidance flat. Very similar backdrop for them, again, it's a
higher income consumer. They are seeing demand you know, for
the price point of their goods, especially in the Williams
Sonoma home brand that's performed very well. They're also making
(33:34):
inroads with kids and their teen pottery barn brand, so
that another one, you know, very similar to Dix. You know,
both kind of entered the year with strong demand momentum,
and we saw that demand continue into the first quarter
and it looks like it could continue to extend this year,
all right.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Thanks to Lindsay Dutch, Bloomberg Intelligence Consumer Hardline Senior Analyst.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
We moved next to the auto sector this week. The
automaker stilentis appointed and it's America's head Antonio Filosa, as
its chief executive.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Officer, and this comes after former boss Carlos Saveras was
forced out over a slumping sales and profit.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
For more, we were joined by Steve Man Bloomberg Intelligence
Global Autos and Industrials Research Channels. We first asked Steve
to break down this week's news.
Speaker 10 (34:17):
Well, the old CEO resigned. Part of it is because,
you know, earnings were pretty bad and it may not
be one hundred percent of his fault. The market was
the auto market was weakening. So we have a new CEO.
He does have a lot of experience in the auto industry.
He's been with Stalentis since nineteen ninety nine, so it's
(34:38):
been a while. Like you said, the last dint he
was was in managing the North American business for a
few months, and prior to that he was at Cheap
But you know, it took a number of months for
them to identify someone new. But I think the market
is just pretty surprised that they went with somebody internal
and not somebody external.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
So what do we learn about that? Because so many
of the problems that are hitting carmakers are in some
ways completely out of their control. Yes, in terms of trade,
supply chains, sort of the war on evs here in
the US, right, So do we learn that, Like, hey,
we don't think it's very fixable, so we're not gonna
worry about something from the outside or is it like, look,
the US is in turmoil. We need someone who knows
that market. Like, what do we learn?
Speaker 10 (35:19):
So there's you know, they are they do have issues
that's not in their control, but there's a lot of
issues that they are in control. So you know, quality
is an issue. You know, I think a lot of
American buyers thinks Jeep has kind of fallen off in
the quality side. The new CEO, Antonio actually managed Jeep
for about two years, so you know, I think, you know,
(35:43):
the investor will take that as probably a negative. And
then the other issues is morale. You know, over the
past few years, sales have been weakening, They've been closing
a lot of plants as a result. Dealers are not
very happy with some pricing issues since COVID. So there's
(36:05):
a lot of issues that you know, the new CEO
will have to kind of address and hopefully you can
turn out a.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Rep all right, So for the big three US automakers
in general, what is the consensus on tariffs and how
much it will impact their business?
Speaker 10 (36:20):
Well, interestingly, Trump has been giving a lot of reprieves
and reliefs to you know, various countries and regions and
a certain sector, but he hasn't really done much for
the auto industry. There was some relief, a two year relief,
but I think he's you know, going full full ahead
with these auto tariffs and a lot of companies still
(36:41):
don't know where the impact, how big of the impact is.
GM actually announced they're going to be a four to
five billion impact this year. Toyota said, you know, over
between May and March and April the impact was one
point three to one point five billion. So given these
numbers is going to be huge.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
What about EV's. Is it possible that EV's in the
US go the way that EV's went one hundred years ago.
It could, It could, That's not immaterial.
Speaker 10 (37:14):
I think, you know, there's a number of issues that's
facing the EV market. Infrastructure is a big one. It's
just not as convenient as people would like it to be.
The other thing is the cost. You know, I still
think that you know, EV has a place in the marketplace.
It's not going to be fifty percent market share by
(37:38):
twenty thirty. We think it's more like half of that
twenty to twenty five percent. And then look there is
a risk to lower number because of the tariffs and affordability.
A lot of these some of these EV's are actually
made in Mexico, so if you slap on tariffs, that
makes it less affordable for consumers.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Our thanks to Steve Man, Bloomberg Intelligence, Global autos in
a dust research analyst.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
This is the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each
weekday ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot com,
the iHeartRadio app tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app.
You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube
and always on the Bloomberg terminal
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Intelligence
with Alex Steel and Paul Sweeney.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
The real our performance has been in US corporate high yield.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Are the companies lean enough? Have they trimmed all the fats?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
The semiconductor business is a really cyclical business.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Breaking market headlines and corporate news from across the globe.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Do investors like the M and A that we've seen?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
These are two big time blue chip companies.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Window between the peak and cunt changing super fast.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Bloomberg Intelligence with Alex Steele and Paul Sweeney on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
On Today's Bloomberg Intelligence Show, we dig inside the big
business stories impacting Wall Street and the global markets.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Each and every week we provide in depth research and
data on some of the two thousand companies and one
hundred and thirty industries our analysts cover worldwide.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Today, we'll look at how Donald Trump's empire has landed
billions of dollars since his last presidential campaign kicked off.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Plus we'll discuss how sales of the department store chain
may sees are being impacted by tariffs.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
But first we begin with big tech and the world's
most valuable chip maker Nvidio.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
This week, the company gave an upbeat revenue forecast for
the current quarter, even as a slowdown in China. Wait
on first quarter results for more on why.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
We were joined by Kunjan Sabani, Bloomberg Intelligence senior semi
conductor analysts.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
We first asked Kujon for his take on Nvidia's most
recent quarter.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Yeah two big tickeabase. The GB two hundred ram continues
to be stronger than we expected or people an dissipated.
We believe based on of our math, the GB two
hundred came in three billion above expectations both in one
Q and physical two Q, which is what helped them
beat the numbers despite the significant China had been which
(01:45):
was eight billion for two Q. The second key point
was if you take out the China write down, grossmagin
actually came in better than antissipated, again suggesting the GB
two hundred yeelds and cost optimization are running better than
anticipated and we expect margins to continue to rise through
the year, exiting year at mid seventy percent, which we
(02:05):
believe was the very key a lot of key important
factor for the long time long term investors in the company.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yeah that's what you're mentioning yesterday, that making sure that
we can do that. Namidia can deliver the mid seventies
for margins at the end of the year. So are
you what are your outstanding concerns slash questions when it
comes to Nvidia, Well, the.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Number one is we really hope to hear the new
China variant and get clarity on it, which didn't happen.
There have been some rumors flying around that that might
soon happen, both from Nvidia and AMD, but as we
would like to get it officially the specs you know
what kind of asps and what sort of applications it
will be targeting to as soon as possible to put
(02:46):
those concerns at bed. The other key thing, which right
now they did help reduce the risk, which is slow
down from the hyperscas in cloud we don't see that risk.
But as we get into fiscal cue with the August
time frame, this is when hyperscalers and clouds really think
about their CAPEX budgets for next year. That will be
(03:07):
another key milestone for them.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
The revenue it gets from China, I know percent, I'm
not sure what it is. I know it's been declining,
could that go to zero? And if so, can the
stock still work if that were to go to zero.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
So at this point, the revenue from China within data
center is almost zero, right and estimates don't include anything
back from that for at least for this year, so
that's almost gone to zero. There is definitely China revenues
coming from their gaming segment and their auto segment, but
the data center, which is the real meat of it,
which was expected to They were expected to sell about
(03:43):
fifteen billion of it just this year from the H twenty,
which has almost gone to zero. So until the new
compliant chip does not come out and they start selling,
it's essentially down to zero.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Right now, we're talking about how important Middle Eastern clients
were to in video for example, and the kind of
cap that they're spending. What other growth areas or regions
do you think are going to really start delivering?
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Yeah, so a couple of key regions we are keeping
an eye out. Just like you mentioned Middle East. There
are a lot of so many entites, so just don't
think of Middle East, think of India, Japan and a
lot of other countries. Because right now having self regional
AI models, having regional AI localized data centers is national
(04:29):
priority for a lot of emerging and big countries. So
all of these regions are going have already announced, planned
and big budgets based on the respective GDPs to spend on.
So and media will be a big beneficiary of that.
US the Middle East is just a key example. Like
I said, you have other regions, especially India and Japan
investing heavily here as well. The second key driver outside
(04:51):
of the top four CSPs are going to the enterprises.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Now.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
One big example is Xai. They have announced significant big projects.
The other second example is the Target Project. So we
anticipate a lot more such projects at the enterprise level
coming in where they will start to pitch in to
robust billions of dollars of growth for NVIDIAU.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
John, what's the competitive landscape these days Nvidia versus who Yes,
The answer is yes.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
But just for theoretical purposes. The second biggest competitor in
the GPU landscape is a MD But the bigger threat
to US is the ACIK providers like the broadcoms in Marvel.
Because in terms, when you look at the TAM sizing
right now, the AMD's market is what the revenue they're
generating is still significantly small versus the ACIK market is
expected to grow faster, and that they are not a
(05:40):
direct competitor, that you don't replace out in Nvidia GPU,
that they are not emerging GPU, but they still take
away the wallets share at the same large customers, So
they could start deploying their own A six and not
rely as much on the n Media GPUs. That's a
long term risk.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Our Thanks to Kunjan Sabani, Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Semiconductor Analyst.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Each week we take a look at research from Bloomberg
NEF previously known as New Energy Finance.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
They're the team at Bloomberg that tracks and analyzes the
energy transition from commodities to power, transport, industries, buildings, and
agricultural sectors.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
This week, we looked at the final version of the
tax and spending bill passed by House Republicans and how
it represents a nightmare scenario for clean energy advocates and
defenders of the Inflation Reduction Act.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
For more, we were joined by Derek Flekel, BNEF Lead
US policy analyst.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
We first asked Derek just how bad this tax bill
from the House is for clean energy.
Speaker 6 (06:34):
Well, it's pretty bad, to be honest. Depending on which
market you're looking at, you might see more or less
severe restrictions if you look at home batteries, home electricity credits,
home solar that gets repealed outright at the end of
twenty twenty five, and if you look at utility scale stuff.
There was already some pretty severe restrictions in an earlier
(06:55):
version of this bill introduced by the Ways and Means Committee,
nearly unworkable restrictions on any kind of Chinese linked intellectual
property or supplies, as well as earlier phase outs and
a variety of other complicated barriers to usage. Now, this
final version of the bill that the House is put
out has made that even more restrictive, in part by
(07:16):
saying that only projects that begin construction within sixty days
after the bill's final signature by the President would be
able to qualify at all. So that would really restrict
it to a handful of things already in the pipeline.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
What it did seem to do, though, is give a
lot of leeway well maybe a lot too strong a word,
but leeway to commercial solar, for example, but not residential solar.
How does that make sense?
Speaker 6 (07:39):
Well, the amount of leeway is a little bit relative,
and I would say, firstly, the political logic is essentially
around the culture war element. The idea is, if you're
putting solar panels on your roof and deducting that form
your taxes to probably higher income, you're an elite, so
to speak. And so there's probably a desire to reduce
that element in terms of the sort of regional power.
(07:59):
And that's really good for Republican districts.
Speaker 7 (08:02):
A lot of them have relatively cheap land.
Speaker 6 (08:04):
It's a pretty big source of tax revenue and potentially
construction jobs. So there's an attempt to keep those at
least nominally alive. But in practice, the restriction of the
regulations on these credits make them unusable for all but
a few projects. This is an attempt to balance between
about twelve to twenty Republicans who really wanted to keep
those credits alive and practical to use and a faction
(08:27):
that really wanted to cut spending by any means necessary
and saw the IRA credits as a great place to
go for that. So in practice it looks a little
bit less restrictive, but the sheer web of complications and
limitations means that a very very small number of utility
scale projects would actually get that.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Derek Tomkin is famous for saying that companies adapt, corporations adapt,
industries adapt, people adapt. Can the clean energy industry, again
broadly defined, can it adapt and deal and grow and
in make the estments in this environment?
Speaker 7 (09:02):
I think that's going to be a very big challenge.
Speaker 6 (09:04):
Certainly, there have been opportunities to try and final alternatives
to Chinese intellectual property and suppliers from Korea and Japan.
There's progress on building factories out in the US, but
the level of uncertainty surrounding this bill is pretty high.
Even if it gets finalized in something like its current form,
you might need to wait for up to two years
to see final regulations on some of these foreign empty restrictions,
(09:28):
and that's pretty chilling to investment.
Speaker 7 (09:30):
Ultimately, we do see our.
Speaker 6 (09:33):
Model for if the credits were fully repealed beginning at
the end of twenty twenty five, still found that about
eighty three percent of renewable projects at the utility scale
but still get built, at least across solar winded storage.
But that wasn't that was a pre tariff projection. We
still are sort of thinking how those will fit together
since the tariff rates are ever changing. But fundamentally, I
(09:54):
think there will be a lot of challenges adapting to this.
There's certainly markets where there's still regulatory pushes for renewables,
there's still the fastest thing to install or the cheapest,
but ultimately the level of adaptation is going to be
fairly challenging, and fairly women had given some of the
severity of these subsidy based.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Restrictions, which is just so striking too, because this affects
sort of the supply part and the demand part, like
it hits on both angles. I was talking to the
former CEO of Sonova, which it had its own problems
including not being able to pay debt, looking at bankruptcy, etc.
Before any of this happened, and I asked him, I
was like, can these sell our companies stay in business?
Are they going to go bankrupt? And he's like bankrupt,
(10:33):
Like there's no way that they can survive. Is that
what we're going to be looking for.
Speaker 7 (10:37):
I think we're going to be looking at a few
different things.
Speaker 6 (10:39):
First of all, a lot of Chinese assets are joined investments,
like there's one with in energy and LAUNG solar in Ohio,
you might see changes in ownership there, so maybe a
bit of a consolidation. Obviously, there's a reason that for
solar stock went up. It's fairly insulated from some of
these restrictions. But at the same time, like you're going
to see in a wave of consolidation, and that does
(11:00):
mean you see some losers and some people falling out
of the market, and particularly segments that are tied to
more price sensitive sectors. When a residential solar you might
see a bigger hit to those areas as well.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Derek, I know you're at the bn EF summit in Munich.
What's the view from Europe as to what's happening to
the the Green Energy initiative in the US.
Speaker 6 (11:23):
Everybody was a little bit curious about where that's going
to stand, what's going to be permanent. Europe is often
thinking is this maybe our moment to have more investment
here because we have a bit more consistent policy through
the carbon price. But it's also dealing with its own challenges.
There's been a big focus on shifting to defense and
energy security rather than the energy transition per se. Sometimes
(11:43):
those go together, say by creating local battery storage reducing
reliance on Russian gas.
Speaker 7 (11:49):
At the same time, you see.
Speaker 6 (11:50):
A lot of both political and economic pressure to continue
using gas through a mix perhaps of US liquefied natural
gas as well as imported gas. Where As for investments
in the US that a lot of manufacturers have made
when the economic concentives of the Irara seem much more stable,
they're certainly questioning what will remain At the end of
(12:11):
the day. As I said, you're going to see shifts
and ownship. You're going to see consolidation, and depending on
the fiscal picture in Europe and the degree that you
can fit the energy transition into that energy security framework,
you could see a bit of a shift over there.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Our thanks to Derek flickl b NEF, lead US policy analyst.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Coming up, we're going to break down how Meta CEO
Mark Zuckerberg is trying to win over President Donald Trump
but may not have a lot to show for those efforts.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
You're listening to Bloomberg Intelligence on Bloomberg Radio, providing in
depth research and data on two thousand companies one hundred
and thirty industries. You can access Bloomberg Intelligence via b
I go on the terminal.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Paul Sweeney and a Malex Steel and this is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live
weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple Coarclay, and Android
Auto with the Bloomberg Business App on demand wherever you
get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
We recently focused on a Bloomberg Big Take story titled
the Trump Family's Money Making Machine. You can find it
on Bloomberg dot Com and The Terminal.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
The story looks at all the ways Donald Trump and
his family have enriched themselves since his most recent presidential
campaign began.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
For more, we were joined by Max Abelson, Bloomberg News
Finance reporter, and any mass Up, Bloomberg Wealth reporter.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
We first asked Max about what Trump's money making machine is.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
If we were able to put it into one word
or one line, we really would have. Unfortunately, it does
take like four thousand words to describe because the machine
is really really big. I think the way what we
ended up deciding is that no modern American president has
ever positioned his family to make this much money while
in the White House.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
And you can't you can't.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
Oversimplify it either as a supporter or is a critic.
You can't say, oh, what he's doing is crypto, or oh,
what he's doing is licensing his name, or oh what
he's doing is going overseas or what what what the
family is doing is making corporate connections?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
That it really is.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
We ended up thinking about this as basically an atlas,
an atlas to what the Trump family is doing. To
take it seriously and to really focus on the facts
and on the numbers and on the places. It was
real work and I was actually, dare I say, even
fun to work with Anyon.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I'm trying to figure it out. Hey, l So Annie,
I mean, is this I guess part of the question
is depending on Hey, look at it. Is this legal?
Speaker 7 (14:30):
Is it ethical?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
What are the folks in Washington saying?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Well?
Speaker 5 (14:35):
So.
Speaker 8 (14:35):
One of the challenges of working on the story was
that almost week by week there would be new details
to add. And I think what Max and I found
was that to go through each of these different categories.
We covered real estate, we covered crypto, We covered this
kind of grab bag of other ventures that the Trump
(14:57):
family has become involved in. You have to go really
deep into each one, and there's a high velocity of
new deals coming now from the ethical standpoint, what the
Trump family has decided to do is they've issued an
ethics plan for Trump's second term, as they did in
(15:18):
his first term. The way that they've handled it is
by putting President Trump's assets in a trust which is
overseen by his son, Donald Trump Junior. But there are
some differences in the ethics plan of Trump's first term
and his second term this time around. As we note
in the story, the ban on new foreign deals that
(15:40):
existed last time is no longer in place, and you
can see the new deals popping up all the time.
Speaker 5 (15:47):
I found it very liberating actually to in our work
rather than putting ourselves in a position where we wanted
to say Trump is the most amazing president and everything
he does is amazing, or being a position where we
have to say Trump is the worst president and everything
he does is illegal. What we tried to do is
just to understand, peace by piece, the way the family
is making money, and it was helpful to just use
(16:08):
Trump's own words and own plan. Last time around, in
the first administration, he was unwilling for the family to
do new deals around the world. This time the family
is embracing deals around the world. And by their own account,
what they're not allowing is deals with foreign governments. And
when Andy and I look closely, what we found is
(16:30):
that there are some deals, especially in Oman, especially in
Cutter that really test the edge of that agreement. They
are with arms of governments. Now it may not necessarily
be the Trump organization doing these deals. Sometimes their entities
kind of in between. There's this one developer called dar Global.
So what we're hoping listeners out there will do is
(16:50):
read our story because we really tried to vary carefully
without doing anything but the facts, just really tried to
understand everything about this money making machine.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
How much of this money making machine are real deals
based on properties and hotels, and how much of it
are like NFTs and capitalizing more on the celebrity that
is President Trump.
Speaker 8 (17:13):
Everyone kind of knows that Trump real estate Empire has
in many ways moved for a long time, been moving
toward licensing the Trump brand for hotels and developments. That's
a big that's a big part of what they do now.
But what's new or in the second term, is you
see his sons Eric Trump and Donald Trump Junior joining
(17:36):
the boards of companies both private and public, and lending
the name in a way to those companies, and what
tends to happen when they join, either in an executive
role or as advisors is, at least in the case
of public companies, sometimes the share price of those companies
will go flying. So it shows the celebrity to your
(17:59):
point and name that they bring into the business world,
into all these different ventures, including in crypto, but in
other realms too, like prediction markets.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
And to be fair, what Donald Trump Junior will say,
and what he said to us is I'm a private citizen.
I've been a businessman all my life. It's ridiculous to
expect me to stop doing what I do just because
my dad is president.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
And that what Donald Trump will say.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
A White House pokes versus said to us is you know,
I'm transparent and I handed over this multi billion dollar
empire to serve our country. The White House described at
President Trump as making a great sacrifice. I think it's
really helpful though, to just look at the numbers, and
I just want to quickly mention what we found is
that the Trump name is powering more than ten billion
(18:43):
dollars of real estate projects since the re election campaign began.
A multi billion dollar valuation for the social media company,
A money losing social media company that just went public.
I mean, you forget it went public last year, plus
the money from crypto, plus the money from corporate connections,
I think it's worth taking your time to kind of
wrap your arms around it, because it really is sort of,
I guess, unlike anything I've ever reported on.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
All right, thanks to Max Abelson and Bloomberg News Finance
reporter and Annie Massa Bloomberg Wealth reporter. This week we
looked at another Bloomberg Big Take story titled Zuckerberg's bet
on Maga has Yet to Bear Fruit. You can find
it on Bloomberg dot Com and The Terminal.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
The story looks at how Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg has
done everything he can do to win over President Donald Trump,
but it's not yet clear he has much to show
for it.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
From where we were joined by one of the story's
co authors, Kurt Wagner, Bloomberg News Tech reporter, and we
first asked Kurt what Mark Zuckerberg's strategy has been to
get on President Trump's good side.
Speaker 9 (19:36):
We noticed this starting in January, actually slightly before the inauguration.
In January, Mark Zuckerberg showed up at mar Alago for
a dinner with Trump, which was something that was notable
not just because of who Mark Zuckerberg is, but because
of the contentious relationship that they have had for years,
ever since Facebook and Instagram banned Donald Trump after the
(19:56):
January sixth riots at the Capitol. And so he goes
to mar aw Lago, he shows up at the inauguration,
he starts making frequent trips to the White House to
meet with Trump and other officials in the administration. And
so we just sort of set out to figure out
what is this strategy here? Right on the one hand,
it seems somewhat obvious everyone you know, wants to be
close to that center of power in DC and build
(20:18):
those relationships. But given the history between these two men,
it was very notable, like is this a shift in
Mark Zuckerberg's personal politics or is this just him simply
trying to play this political game. And I think through
the reporting and interviews that we did, I think what
we sort of came to see was this picture of
a CEO who's less tied to his own specific, you know,
(20:41):
political ideals and more a sense of self preservation.
Speaker 10 (20:45):
Right.
Speaker 9 (20:45):
He's someone who out to try and make sure that
he and his company survive. And that's what this is
all about.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Which was so striking in your piece, because what came
up for me is that no one seems to like
Mark Zuckerberg, whether you're a Democrat or a public and
everyone seems to ignore him and not like him. So
to your point, it's really about the political showmanship.
Speaker 9 (21:06):
I think he's an easy person for people to point to,
right We've seen this for years in Congress, Like when
things go poorly, it's it's easy to point to Facebook.
It's easy to point to Mark Zuckerberg. What happens in
the world, what happens in society usually happens on their products,
on their platform. So they end up sort of, in
some ways they totally deserve a lot of this blame.
(21:28):
In some ways they don't, but they get it anyway.
And I think Mark Zuckerberg, you know, has been a
uniting person in DC in that both sides of the
political ais'll dislike him historically, and so on the one hand,
you can understand, you know, why he would want to
try and forge this relationship with President Trump. On the
other hand, it's it's unclear if it's working and I
(21:51):
think that we have sort of to this point not
seen the returns on those efforts from him. There's a
bunch of stuff that that meta is still facing in
terms of regulation and politics that are that are hard
for the company, and I'm not sure that he's quite
gotten the return that he wanted.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Yet he bought a mansion in Washington, d C. He
being Mark Zuckerberg. What's that about.
Speaker 9 (22:11):
Yeah, twenty three million dollars, you know, as we all
do by I believe, like a fourth home. I think
the idea there is that he's just going to simply
be in DC a lot more, especially over these next
four years. I think it's certainly a signal to not
only the administration but others on on Capitol Hill that hey,
(22:31):
I'm going to be a regular presence here and and
you're going to see me around. I want to be involved.
It's a change of posture for him for the you know,
the prior four years, or at least the prior two years,
he had really sort of handed the policy and politics
part of the business over to Nick Clegg, who was
the former Deputy Prime Minister of the UK. But Clegg
(22:52):
announced that he's leaving shortly after the election, and I
think Mark Zuckerberg has sort of picked up that baton
and he sort of said, you know, I need to
be the person to do this. Donald Trump doesn't want
to deal with a number two or a number three
at any company, right, President Trump wants to deal with
the CEO. And I think Mark Zuckerberg knows that, which
is why he's showing up in DC himself as often
as he is.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
What you also talk about in the piece is just
the contrast between Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg, like two entrepreneurs,
incredibly brilliant starting different companies, and just how politically their
paths have diverged.
Speaker 9 (23:23):
Yeah, we had the section and the story about how
it was described as as sort of Elon envy on
Mark Zuckerberg's part, So you can kind of imagine he's
for years kind of getting grilled, as we talked about
by politicians on both sides. He did spend a lot
of time, at least a few years ago, apologizing, right, hey,
we need to do better, We're going to do better,
(23:43):
kind of like trying to appease everybody to no success.
And meanwhile, you look out if you're Mark Zuckerberg and
you see what Elon Musk is doing, and he's pretty
much just doing whatever he wants, you know, Consequences be damned,
And I think they're developed the sense of like, why
am I out here apologizing? And why am I out
here trying to please everybody and play down the middle
(24:05):
and all this stuff when you know he's out there
he being Elon picking aside donating you know, hundreds of
millions of dollars to the Trump campaign, literally campaigning for
the president while running a social network, and there seems
to be no repercussions. And so I think over time
he developed, like I said, this, like Elon envy, this
sense that maybe I'm doing it wrong and he's doing
(24:25):
it right. And I think we've seen some of that
sort of show up in the way we see Mark
Zuckerberg last you know, six to twelve months. He's a
lot less. He's an unapologetic guy as far as how
he used to be. And I think I think Elon
has a lot to do with.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
That o right.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Thanks to Kurt Wagner, Bloomberg News tech reporter, coming up.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
In the program will break down why the sporting goods
retailer Dick Sporting Goods is maintaining his annual sales and
profit forecast.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
You're listening to Bloomberg Intelligence on Bloomberg Radio, providing in
depth research and data on two thousand companies and one
hundred and thirty industries. You can access Bloomberg Intelligence via
b I go on the terminal.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
I'm Paul Sweeney and am Malex Steel, and this is bloom.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android
Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever
you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
This week, the department store chain Macy's posted better than
expected quarterly sales and maintain its sales outlook for the
current year. This comes to spite new tariffs and moderation
in consumer spending.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Meantime, the clothing retailer Abercrombie and Fitch raised it's full
your outlook, showing confidence in its ability to navigate the
changing tear of landscape.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
For more on these companies, we were joined by Mary
Ross Gilbert Bloomberg Intelligence, senior equity analysts covering retail.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
We first asked Mary for her key takeaways. On Macy's
most recent quarter.
Speaker 11 (25:47):
I think the green shoots here is that Macy's is
showing some traction here with their refresh strategy. When you
look at their one hundred and twenty five stores that
they've refreshed, and they've expanded that to include some additional stores.
Their comp sales were down about two percent. About one
point nine is the figure that they're using. And you know, look,
(26:08):
Dillard's outperformed because they were down one percent, so they're
getting better. But where they really need to improve is
on the service levels. Where you also saw strength here
is really on the luxury side, and that's Bloomingdale's. Bloomingdale's
was up three point eight percent and Blue Mercury, which
is their beauty specialty beauty growth concept, and that was
(26:29):
up one and a half percent. So that's where you're
really seeing strength. But it's such a small piece of
the business. It's really all about the Nacy's name plate,
and we still need to see better traction there, but
it's getting better and better. And with regard to the
tariff hits, it's going to be about twenty to forty
basis points, so very manageable. They directly source about you know,
(26:50):
we estimate that their private label business is about thirteen
to fourteen percent. That's on a consolidated basis of sales,
and so there sourcing about twenty seven percent from China directly.
So they have a number of initiatives that are helping
them to offset the full effect of tariffs, which you'll
see the biggest hit in the second quarter, but for
(27:11):
the full year, it's very manageable, you know, in that
twenty to forty basis point impact.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Mary for Macy's, are they comfortable with their store footprint
these days?
Speaker 11 (27:23):
So, Paul, they're reducing their store footprint with the Macy's
name plate, with some of the stores that they're closing.
They've already closed sixty four. The total that they plan
to close is one hundred and fifty. So they sort
of feel like the go forward store base is about
three hundred and fifty stores. But right now there's a
little bit of a pause, you know, just because of
(27:44):
the real estate market and some of the store closures
that they have planned for this year. But yes, no,
they need to take that store base down.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
All right.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Let's go to the other one on the highlight here
Abercromme and Fisch I'm kind of floored by this. Like
we saw it with Urban, it with the American Eagle, Like
these specialty stores, they seem to be somewhat cyclical in nature,
and they're crushing it right now.
Speaker 11 (28:07):
Yeah, I mean, you can say Abercrombie is crushing it.
They kind of are. But I mean, if you look
at the namesake brand, the Abercrombie and Fitch brand, that
was actually down ten percent on a comp sales basis,
but in all fairness, they were going against a twenty
nine percent increase in the prior year. First quarter in
a way you'd say, look, that's no excuse. And certainly
(28:28):
they were impacted in the quarter by lower average unit retail.
That was because they had some carryover inventory from the
winter season, and also it looks like they had a
little bit of a miss on their bridle, you know,
the wedding business. But where they did have some strength
was in swim They really chased after it. So they've
really got a good sort of summer shop going, and
(28:50):
they expect that Abercrombie will inflect back to positive in
the second half of the year. Where you really saw
the strength was Hollister. So Hollister turned in a nice
twenty three percent comp sales gain, and that was on
top of a double digit gain last year, So they're
really hitting it out of the ballpark, you know with
the team gen Z retail customer there.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Hey, Mary, what are the Macy's and the Amber Crombies
of the world. What are they saying about the consumer
right now?
Speaker 11 (29:18):
Yeah, so Macy's is taking a very cautious perspective on
the consumer. We think the consumer is pretty resilient. I mean,
clearly at the higher end they're more resilient than at
the lower end, and there's some caution in there, but generally,
I would say, you know, when we have employment levels,
you know, in that sort of unemployment levels in that
sort of four percent range, that's really full employment. And
(29:41):
when you're employed, you feel good about spending money. So
we really think it's holding up. We think there's retailers
are taking a cautious conservative approach hoping to be able
to beat and we think they probably can, particularly as
we get into the back half of the year and
they're able to delay more of the tariff impact as well.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Our thanks to Mary Ross Gilbert Bloomberg Intelligence senior equity
analysts covering.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Retail We move next to news from the sporting goods
retailer Dick's Sporting Goods.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
This week, the company said it maintained it's annual sales
and profit FORCAS and this can be viewed us a
sign of strength as the retailer prepares to require the
struggling footwear chain Footlocker.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
For more.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
We were joined by Lindsay Dutch, Bloomberg Intelligence Consumer Hardline
Senior analyst.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
We first asked Lindsay for her key takeaways from quarterly
results at dick Sporting Goods.
Speaker 12 (30:25):
Yes, so the numbers Dix did pre announce when they
announced their footlocker deal a couple of weeks ago, and
numbers were in line with their pre announcement. But the
key focus was that guidance what they left where they
said it at the beginning of the year, and it
really tells us, you know, combined with the strong first
quarter results, that demand is holding very strong for this
(30:45):
company and we should continue to see growth in coming
quarters and tariffs with the rising costs, there should be
manageable for the rest of the year.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
What changed because I feel like before earning season, we
thought this was going to be just like total disaster
for retailers came to tariffs, it is something fundamentally changed,
or do we just not give them enough credit?
Speaker 12 (31:04):
So I think Dix might not be a barometer for
retailers across the board. I think they're uniquely positioned in
a couple of ways. One is that their consumer base
is a higher income consumer. That consumer has been holding
up pretty well, and we haven't seen a change, you know,
in the spending patterns for them yet. The other piece
(31:25):
I would say is, you know, Dix has done a
really great job improving their assortment, and because they carry
you know, premium brands, they are in a very good
position to pass through these higher costs to that consumer.
And we expect that more affluent consumer to continue to
spend a Nike even if it's five percent higher in
(31:48):
terms of the shoe that you're picking. So it is manageable,
you know, for Dix, and you know that might not
be the case across the board, but they are positioned
to do so.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Linda guessing that my sneakers are not stitched in pure
at Illinois, So what are they saying about tariffs and
the impact on their margins?
Speaker 12 (32:09):
Right, So we haven't gotten a lot of specific details,
but in the guidance that they are still expecting about
seventy five basis points of gross margin expansion this year,
so that expectation of growing margin is still in place.
Like I said, I think that they're looking to pass
those higher costs on to consumers. So that's sort of
(32:32):
a margin neutral impact. And the way they're getting the
expansion on the margin line is, you know, Dix has
really pulled back on promotions. They don't really offer blanket discounts.
You never see twenty percent off the entire site, not
even on Black Friday. They just don't do that anymore.
And they haven't really done that since the pandemic, you know,
once they saw that consumers really are interested in sports
(32:56):
fitness at leisure, they will pay the full price and
they could plan to continue to sell through on the
full price for the rest of the year.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
What other stocks in your coverage are holding up surprisingly well.
Speaker 12 (33:12):
Yeah, so that's a great question, Alex. So we had
william Sonoma report last week and they too held their
guidance flat. Very similar backdrop for them, again, it's a
higher income consumer. They are seeing demand you know, for
the price point of their goods, especially in the Williams
Sonoma home brand that's performed very well. They're also making
(33:34):
inroads with kids and their teen pottery barn brand, so
that another one, you know, very similar to Dix. You know,
both kind of entered the year with strong demand momentum,
and we saw that demand continue into the first quarter
and it looks like it could continue to extend this year,
all right.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Thanks to Lindsay Dutch, Bloomberg Intelligence Consumer Hardline Senior Analyst.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
We moved next to the auto sector this week. The
automaker stilentis appointed and it's America's head Antonio Filosa, as
its chief executive.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Officer, and this comes after former boss Carlos Saveras was
forced out over a slumping sales and profit.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
For more, we were joined by Steve Man Bloomberg Intelligence
Global Autos and Industrials Research Channels. We first asked Steve
to break down this week's news.
Speaker 10 (34:17):
Well, the old CEO resigned. Part of it is because,
you know, earnings were pretty bad and it may not
be one hundred percent of his fault. The market was
the auto market was weakening. So we have a new CEO.
He does have a lot of experience in the auto industry.
He's been with Stalentis since nineteen ninety nine, so it's
(34:38):
been a while. Like you said, the last dint he
was was in managing the North American business for a
few months, and prior to that he was at Cheap
But you know, it took a number of months for
them to identify someone new. But I think the market
is just pretty surprised that they went with somebody internal
and not somebody external.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
So what do we learn about that? Because so many
of the problems that are hitting carmakers are in some
ways completely out of their control. Yes, in terms of trade,
supply chains, sort of the war on evs here in
the US, right, So do we learn that, Like, hey,
we don't think it's very fixable, so we're not gonna
worry about something from the outside or is it like, look,
the US is in turmoil. We need someone who knows
that market. Like, what do we learn?
Speaker 10 (35:19):
So there's you know, they are they do have issues
that's not in their control, but there's a lot of
issues that they are in control. So you know, quality
is an issue. You know, I think a lot of
American buyers thinks Jeep has kind of fallen off in
the quality side. The new CEO, Antonio actually managed Jeep
for about two years, so you know, I think, you know,
(35:43):
the investor will take that as probably a negative. And
then the other issues is morale. You know, over the
past few years, sales have been weakening, They've been closing
a lot of plants as a result. Dealers are not
very happy with some pricing issues since COVID. So there's
(36:05):
a lot of issues that you know, the new CEO
will have to kind of address and hopefully you can
turn out a.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Rep all right, So for the big three US automakers
in general, what is the consensus on tariffs and how
much it will impact their business?
Speaker 10 (36:20):
Well, interestingly, Trump has been giving a lot of reprieves
and reliefs to you know, various countries and regions and
a certain sector, but he hasn't really done much for
the auto industry. There was some relief, a two year relief,
but I think he's you know, going full full ahead
with these auto tariffs and a lot of companies still
(36:41):
don't know where the impact, how big of the impact is.
GM actually announced they're going to be a four to
five billion impact this year. Toyota said, you know, over
between May and March and April the impact was one
point three to one point five billion. So given these
numbers is going to be huge.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
What about EV's. Is it possible that EV's in the
US go the way that EV's went one hundred years ago.
It could, It could, That's not immaterial.
Speaker 10 (37:14):
I think, you know, there's a number of issues that's
facing the EV market. Infrastructure is a big one. It's
just not as convenient as people would like it to be.
The other thing is the cost. You know, I still
think that you know, EV has a place in the marketplace.
It's not going to be fifty percent market share by
(37:38):
twenty thirty. We think it's more like half of that
twenty to twenty five percent. And then look there is
a risk to lower number because of the tariffs and affordability.
A lot of these some of these EV's are actually
made in Mexico, so if you slap on tariffs, that
makes it less affordable for consumers.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Our thanks to Steve Man, Bloomberg Intelligence, Global autos in
a dust research analyst.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
This is the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each
weekday ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot com,
the iHeartRadio app tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app.
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