July 18, 2025 • 22 mins
Watch Paul LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF.
Bloomberg Intelligence hosted by Lisa Mateo and Emily Graffeo
Geetha Ranganathan, Bloomberg Intelligence Analyst on US Media, recaps Netflix earnings. Netflix reported revenue grew to $11.1 billion and earnings jumped to $7.19 a share, and raised its forecast for full-year sales and profit margins.
Paige Smith, Bloomberg Consumer Finance Reporter, recaps American Express earnings. American Express Co.'s expenses grew in the second quarter due to risk-management investments and higher customer-engagement costs.
Katherine Doherty, Bloomberg Finance Reporter, discusses the Bloomberg Big Take story: “Jane Street's Secrets Spill Into Open and Face Rivals' Scrutiny.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the
Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am
Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg
Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts,
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Speaker 2 (00:23):
Netflix came out with their earnings. Are you big Netflix watcher?
What are you like? You know?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I dabble in Netflix? Okay, I do.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
I have the like the cheapest version of Netflix, like
get the EDG. Yeah, I get the ads, which I
probably should just pay up because I think it's like
a two dollars a month difference. But like I'm a
little chinsey on that. But I do watch the Dallas
Cowboy Cheerleaders Netflix show.
Speaker 5 (00:49):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
I think it's really what, it's really well done. So
I don't watch a ton of Netflix, but I do.
I think I bought the Netflix subscription to specifically watch
to watch that.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Well, that's what a lot of people.
Speaker 6 (00:58):
I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I haven't gott into the Squad Games that's huge for them,
Stranger Things A little bit dabbled in. But the thing is,
overall they had some impressive results, right, But the problem
I'm having this morning is shares are long. We have
Netflix down nearly five percent. What is going on here?
To explain it all for us is Getha Ranganaglan Ranganathan.
She's Bloomberg Intelligence analyst on us media.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Getha.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Thanks, always a pleasure having you here because you break
it down like nobody else does. So talk to us
why those Netflix shares are lower this morning?
Speaker 7 (01:30):
Yeah, So what I would say, Liza Emily is results.
We're definitely solid. I mean, we had a solid second
quarter print, whether it was second quarter results, whether it
was you know, third quarter guidance. Everything came in above expectations.
They even raised guidance for the full year, both for revenue,
say revenue growth, as well as for operating margin. But
(01:52):
I think what we're really seeing, you know, and kind
of the muted reaction in the shares today is really
because expectations going into the quarter were extremely elevated. And
while I say that the quarter was solid, it probably
was not exceptional. And I think that is what investors
were really hoping for and you really needed for you know,
(02:13):
the stock price to go even higher. So at this point,
you know, valuations really really high for Netflix trading at
about forty five to fifty times forward earnings. So obviously
you needed some huge catalysts, which they you know, we
have fundamentals that are really really strong, but if you
have that one big thing will Netflix didn't necessarily have
(02:35):
that this latest earnings report.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
What did we learn in the earnings just about what
at least Netflix is thinking about for the next leg
of growth is are they planning more content? Is it
more about focusing on live events.
Speaker 7 (02:52):
Yeah, it's a little bit of everything. Actually, So just
if you look for the near term in terms of
the next leg of growth, so we're just looking at
the next six months or so. They actually have a massive,
monster slate and they characterize this as one of their
best six month periods ever. You know, you mentioned stranger things,
you talked about squid Game, you know, you have Wednesday,
(03:14):
you have a whole bunch of other you know, live events,
including the NFL. You have some boxing matches, you know,
so they really have it all coming up, not just
the six month period. The upcoming six month period is
of course going to be extraordinarily strong, but then even
into twenty twenty six, I mean, management was talking about
how they have really this excellent standout content lineup. So
(03:36):
content is obviously going to be a very, very big
thing for them. But as we kind of look out,
you know, every year has its own special you know catalyst.
So in twenty twenty four, for instance, it was subscriber growth.
It was all about subscriber growth, and you had you know,
this password crackdown initiative. You had the new advertising tier
that pulled in over forty million new subscribers just in
(03:58):
that one year. Then for this year, twenty twenty five,
it's really all about price increases, right, So they already
raised prices. We're talking about sixteen to twenty percent price
increases across most markets, and they're going to continue to
raise prices, a lot of it on the back of
that content slate, that that monster content slate. But then
really as we kind of look forward to twenty twenty six,
(04:19):
the big catalyst, and I think the big market mover
for Netflix will be its advertising business. So we've kind
of seen them, you know, dabble a little bit in advertising.
They've been a little bit late to the game, I
would say in advertising. This was a pure subscription service.
But they've gotten i think most of the pieces ready
for that business to take off in a big way.
(04:40):
They said that, you know, they're upfront sales so far
has been pretty pretty encouraging. And you're absolutely right in
terms of the live piece of the puzzle there, because
they really need to have a very good live event
strategy in order to attract all of those top global
brands and top advertisers. And I think they're doing exactly that.
And so next year we're going to see advertising. I mean,
it's so far it's doing still pretty well. They've said
(05:03):
that they're on track to double their advertising revenue for
twenty twenty five. But I think it's going to take
off in a really really big way next year and
then my twenty twenty you know, in another few years time.
I mean expect this to be about ten to fifteen
percent of their total revenue. So it is going to
become a big portion of their growth story going forward.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yeah. I love the live events like the boxing match
Amanda Serrano. I was all over then.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
It was a good one.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So you mentioned these prices, So how much can Netflix
continue to raise their prices for subscribers, I mean before
they start to tune now, before Emily Grafeo shuts it off.
Speaker 7 (05:39):
I actually think they have very good pricing power and
a lot of that, of course, is going to be
based off of the content. And they're obviously continuously investing
in the content, you know, in a discipline way, but
they're definitely broadening it, they're deepening it, and the content
definitely has huge appeal. I mean we've seen this, you know,
time and time again when they put out all of
their engagement. You have every Netflix subscriber watching you know,
(06:03):
the Netflix content for an average of about at least
two hours a day. So that's definitely pretty strong, you know.
So they're going to continue to keep adding to that
content in terms of you know, live events, in terms
of other things, and you know, it's I think that
is definitely going to be a big growth catalyst for them.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Just very quickly in the last thirty seconds here Githa
talk about their their competition right now, because there are
a ton of streaming services. But obviously, i mean Netflix
is up about ninety percent over the last year. Did
this earnings result show us that they're still the clear
leader in streaming?
Speaker 7 (06:41):
Yeah, they are the undisputed leader. I mean, there's there's
absolutely no doubt about this. They've won the streaming wars.
The only one other name that kind of keeps coming
up in terms of you know, viewing time would be YouTube,
But I think both of those platforms are very different.
So Netflix really kind of specializes in premium content and
scripted content and prestige dramas. YouTube is really more for
(07:04):
kind of casual user generated content. But again, you know
the way that Netflix management has kind of framed this
whole question about competition is that you know, they still
have If you kind of just look at the whole
viewing time, Netflix and YouTube combined only have about a
twenty percent share, so they're really really eighty percent is
(07:25):
still up for grabs. And the way that you know,
Netflix is kind of characterizing that there's still plenty of
upside in terms of them kind of capturing more share.
But you're absolutely right, they are way ahead of their
competitors in terms of viewing share right now.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
All right, Thank you very much, Githa. Always glad to
have your inside. That's Keitha Ranganath and Bloomberg Intelligence analyst
on the US media, keeping us all on top of
Netflix learning.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast Catch us Live
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Speaker 4 (08:05):
All right, welcome back to Bloomberg Intelligence Radio. I'm Emily
Graffeo with Lisa Matteo. Paul Sweeney is out. We had
a slew of earnings today and a good read on
the consumer coming out of American Express shares. We're falling,
but the credit card company's expenses were higher than expected.
Tdcowan called the results neutral overall, noted that the earnings
(08:26):
upside was driven by a lower than expected tax rate.
We're going to have Paige Smith, Bloomberg Consumer Finance reporter,
break all of this down. Maybe we could start with
how Amex is standing out from competitors right now and
what did the earnings overall show us.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Because it does really feel like this is a crowded.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Space here for like premium credit cards and premium consumer
finance companies.
Speaker 6 (08:50):
Certainly, thanks for having me.
Speaker 8 (08:51):
I think the one thing that I would note that
the Steve Squerrey, who's the CEO of Amex, got a
lot of questions on this this morning on the analy
call just the idea that you know, of course, the
premium space folks who really love rewards on their credit cards, travel, hospitality,
airport lounges, all of those nice things. It's a very
crowded space and it's getting more crowded. Actually, City just
(09:15):
announced earlier this week, for example, that they were actually
re entering the space after sort of taking a bit
of hiatus there. So it's it's certainly an area to watch.
But AMEX really asserted itself during this batch of earnings
to basically say, listen, we are sort of the original
premium premium card offer company here and we're going to
(09:40):
continue being the premium card offering for consumers in the US.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Now, they had record card members spending, So what does
that say about the state of the consumer they're continuing
to swipe away.
Speaker 8 (09:51):
Yes, that was another question that Steve fielded a couple
of times on the earnings call. It essentially does say
that folks in the premium space are continuing to swipe,
tap and spend.
Speaker 6 (10:01):
In every preferred way.
Speaker 8 (10:04):
And yes, it's it's sort of all's well for the
MX consumer at this moment in time.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Certainly, did we learn anything about any specific updates to
the Platinum Card because people get so obsessed with the
people love the updates.
Speaker 8 (10:22):
And again, yes, it was certainly asked, and no, we
do not have.
Speaker 6 (10:27):
Any more updates for you just yet.
Speaker 8 (10:29):
We know again that the updates are coming in the fall,
and we know the competitive landscape is tight.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
But are they going to raise the price?
Speaker 8 (10:38):
I think it's safe to say that they're going to
raise the price. That's me putting my spin on things.
But if they didn't raise the price, it would be
a pretty a pretty great deal, I'll put it that way.
And I don't think the economics would really make sense
for the card if they did not raise the price.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
But I'm thinking, so if more people are taking advantage
of all these perks, right, because I know I do,
like if I'm tracking my points like crazy, So does
that kind of mean that, you know what, the consumer
is kind of cautious at the same time because we
want to go for those deals.
Speaker 6 (11:09):
I you know, that's a really good question. I don't
know if that's the case.
Speaker 8 (11:12):
I think that there are a lot of deals in
rewards hounds out there, like yourself, who really just track
it very closely. And there was a comment made on
the call that it was something along the lines of,
you know, consumers really like these rewards and they track
them very closely and they pay for value. So it's
I wouldn't say it's maybe a warning sign. I would
(11:34):
say it's more of a sign of like a savvy
consumer per se.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Stable coins are very hot right now on Wall Street.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Is that a threat to Amex's business.
Speaker 8 (11:44):
Well, so, it's certainly been the flavor of the week,
if you will.
Speaker 6 (11:47):
Stable coin. The word stable.
Speaker 8 (11:50):
Coin has popped up in pretty much every earnings call
I've tuned into over the last week, and whether it's
the big Wall Street banks or even Schwab mentioned earlier.
Schwab reported earnings this morning as well. And you know,
when it comes to Amex, they basically said they're very
closely watching the technology to see how they can either
(12:12):
issue their own stable coin or partner on a stable
coin offering of some kind. It's still they sort of
hedged and said it's still early days relatively, but one
thing was very clear, which is Steve Squery came right
out and said, is this a threat to existing payment rails?
Speaker 6 (12:29):
No, it is not.
Speaker 8 (12:30):
And that's kind of the same thing that we've been
hearing kind of across the payments companies, whether it's from Visa, MasterCard, AMX.
Speaker 6 (12:37):
Kind of the same tone there.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
So are people paying off their MX bill? I mean,
how credit card debt?
Speaker 8 (12:43):
So an interesting stat actually that they highlighted in this
round of earnings was that gen Z so AMEX is
making a pretty concerted push in the younger consumer space
at the moment.
Speaker 6 (12:55):
And they highlighted that gen Z and.
Speaker 8 (12:59):
Gen Z and MILLENNI ill spenders were paying, they were
their delinquency rates were kind of being like thirty plus
days past, you past. Their bills were actually lower than
industry industry trends for older consumers. So you would think,
you know, younger people are just getting used to paying
off credit cards and sort of learning about how to
(13:21):
handle their debt. And there was kind of some question
about AMEX targeting these younger consumers with this like premium
credit card that comes with PES, but they've basically countered
and said, hey, so far, so good. They're actually paying
them off. You know, the delinquency rates are quite low
compared with the industry, definitely lower compared with the industry
(13:42):
in their peer group, but even lower among older consumers.
So kind of an interesting metric. I thought that they
highlighted this morning.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Well that's some good news. There's a bill you have
to Paige my thank you so much for joining us
here in the studio. She's Bloomberg Consumer finance reporter talking
about AMEX and credit card debt and all of that.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto
with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you
get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Then Li smitheo alongside Emily GRIFFEO. You were listening to
Bloomberg Intelligence. Paul Sweeney does have the day off. Okay,
So twenty five year old trading powerhouse Jane Street in
the glare of a global spotlight. At least that's according
to Katherine Doherty. She's Bloomberg Finance reporter. Her latest big
take story. This one a lot to dive into, but
I want to start by setting the table, like who
(14:39):
is Jane Street and what's that apart from other firms
out there.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
So, Jane Street has become one of the largest trading
firms in the US and really across the globe. They
started out. Their founders are from Susquehanna. That's another trading
firm that they compete with today. But over the years
they have really developed their technology and their people to
generate billions of dollars in revenue. They've grown so large
(15:07):
that their trading revenue has surpassed some of the biggest
US banks. They're now larger in scale at least the
money that they're making than Bank of America and City Group.
So we're talking a lot of money. And they are
really behind the scenes. So I like to think about
them as they are responsible for the plumbing of the
(15:29):
market and making sure that all of the trading is
actually just moving through the system. They're handling orders from customers,
not directly, some of it is indirectly. If you have
a retail broker, they're the ones that are receiving the
order from their clients. That order gets sent to a
firm like Jane Street, and Jane Street handles the actual
(15:51):
execution to make sure that they're matching the buyer and
the seller. They might take the order and then eventually
they sell it off. But the man player, that's Jane Street.
They're the reason that trading can continue. Them and their
peers play a very important role in the market structure overall.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
There is some regulatory scrutiny right now in India when
it comes to Jane Street, which we're going to get
to in a second. But you write in this big
take that you wrote along with Bernard Goid that they're
famously secretive.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Why are they so secretive on Wall Street?
Speaker 5 (16:27):
Well, number one, they don't really have to say a lot.
This is a private company. What they do doesn't require
public interface at all. They're providing a service and they
don't have to answer to shareholders. So many times they
would they would like to operate.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
In the dark in many ways.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
It doesn't necessarily mean what's going on behind the scenes
and what's happening in the dark is nefarious at all.
There's just not really a reason to say anything. But
what they do is so And who who works for
Jane Street is a is a very particular type of person.
They have quants, they have mathematicians, and this is not
(17:08):
unique to to Jane Street.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Other peers like.
Speaker 5 (17:11):
Citadel Securities and Hudson River Trading. They also attract those
types of people that go to these firms but those
are not the type of people that are in the
business to speak out and and they're just doing their
job because they're providing a service and that service doesn't
necessarily need words. It's it's it's a lot of really
(17:34):
intricate again, it's it's the uh, it's the analysis of
just how the markets are are moving and and they're
trying to just be faster and better than their peers.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
It's all about competition.
Speaker 5 (17:49):
And they say all of the market makers, like a
Jane Street and a Citadel Securities would say that competition
is a good thing because if you are trying to
be faster, that of going to be a good thing
for their customers because orders are going to be priced tighter,
you're not going to lose as much money.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
And really, the reason that the market has.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
Evolved in the age of electronic trading in the way
that it has is because of these firms.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Now, Catherine, you're a pro, so is there anything that
surprised you when you were when you were doing this
research for this story.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
I would not say I'm a pro at all.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
Actually, I mean the reason I enjoy, the reason I
enjoy reporting on firms like this is I'm learning so
much and the people that work in the markets covering
market structure here at Bloomberg, I am fascinated by just
how niche and how nerdy it goes. So I mean,
I would say what surprised me in this reporting, what
(18:47):
surprised everyone on Wall Street was when the numbers were
starting to come out of how much money firms like
Jane Street were making. It was to surpass the big
US banks in terms of creating revenue. That was incredibly
surprising and something that even competitors to Jane Would would
(19:07):
look and say, how are they doing what they do
on the scale that they do? And the answer to
that in my reporting and a lot of what this
story is about is the amount of risk that this
firm is taking.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Now.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
The reason that they can take so much risk, that's
another element to it. It's not as if they're just
throwing caution to the wind. They they're doing this and
they know exactly how much risk they're able to take.
The reason they can stomach the risk is because of
the capital that they're working with. That capital, the money
that they are putting out there and they're for lack
(19:43):
of a better word, playing with it's so large and
it's all theirs. So if you are a hedge fund
as comparison that money, you have to answer to shareholders.
So if you're taking big risks and it doesn't work out, well,
it's not just oh sucks for us, that's really bad
for your clients and your customers.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Jane Street, that's their capital.
Speaker 5 (20:04):
So they might take bigger risk because they think there's
going to be a bigger reward on the other side,
and if it doesn't work out, it's not as if
they have to go explain that or their profit and
loss is all their own money. So it's much different
than the approaches that the banks and hedge funds take
(20:24):
on potentially the other side.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
We have about a minute left and this is definitely
a story that I know we're going to be hearing
more reporting on from you. But regulators are watching Jane
Street specifically in India. Just give us the high level
what the Securities in Exchange Board of India SEB is
looking at.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
So they're looking at Jane Street's trading behavior specifically in
the options market. The regulator came out over July fourth
weekend within one hundred and five page order outlining what
they are alleging is market manipulation, and not go too
far into the weeds, but they're pointing out a few things,
(21:04):
the size of the trades that this firm is putting on,
and because of the size, the impact to the overall market,
and they're claiming that Jane Street's behavior is ultimately harmful
to the end investor.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
So this is playing out.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
The firm has denied that it is doing anything that
is nefarious or would be considered market manipulation, So we'll
see what happens next.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
All right, Catherine Doughty, thank you for joining us right
here in the studio this morning. She is Bloomberg Finance reporter.
You got to check out that article on the terminal.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
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Speaker 7 (22:02):
Yeah,
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the
Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am
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or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Netflix came out with their earnings. Are you big Netflix watcher?
What are you like? You know?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I dabble in Netflix? Okay, I do.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
I have the like the cheapest version of Netflix, like
get the EDG. Yeah, I get the ads, which I
probably should just pay up because I think it's like
a two dollars a month difference. But like I'm a
little chinsey on that. But I do watch the Dallas
Cowboy Cheerleaders Netflix show.
Speaker 5 (00:49):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
I think it's really what, it's really well done. So
I don't watch a ton of Netflix, but I do.
I think I bought the Netflix subscription to specifically watch
to watch that.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Well, that's what a lot of people.
Speaker 6 (00:58):
I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I haven't gott into the Squad Games that's huge for them,
Stranger Things A little bit dabbled in. But the thing is,
overall they had some impressive results, right, But the problem
I'm having this morning is shares are long. We have
Netflix down nearly five percent. What is going on here?
To explain it all for us is Getha Ranganaglan Ranganathan.
She's Bloomberg Intelligence analyst on us media.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Getha.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Thanks, always a pleasure having you here because you break
it down like nobody else does. So talk to us
why those Netflix shares are lower this morning?
Speaker 7 (01:30):
Yeah, So what I would say, Liza Emily is results.
We're definitely solid. I mean, we had a solid second
quarter print, whether it was second quarter results, whether it
was you know, third quarter guidance. Everything came in above expectations.
They even raised guidance for the full year, both for revenue,
say revenue growth, as well as for operating margin. But
(01:52):
I think what we're really seeing, you know, and kind
of the muted reaction in the shares today is really
because expectations going into the quarter were extremely elevated. And
while I say that the quarter was solid, it probably
was not exceptional. And I think that is what investors
were really hoping for and you really needed for you know,
(02:13):
the stock price to go even higher. So at this point,
you know, valuations really really high for Netflix trading at
about forty five to fifty times forward earnings. So obviously
you needed some huge catalysts, which they you know, we
have fundamentals that are really really strong, but if you
have that one big thing will Netflix didn't necessarily have
(02:35):
that this latest earnings report.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
What did we learn in the earnings just about what
at least Netflix is thinking about for the next leg
of growth is are they planning more content? Is it
more about focusing on live events.
Speaker 7 (02:52):
Yeah, it's a little bit of everything. Actually, So just
if you look for the near term in terms of
the next leg of growth, so we're just looking at
the next six months or so. They actually have a massive,
monster slate and they characterize this as one of their
best six month periods ever. You know, you mentioned stranger things,
you talked about squid Game, you know, you have Wednesday,
(03:14):
you have a whole bunch of other you know, live events,
including the NFL. You have some boxing matches, you know,
so they really have it all coming up, not just
the six month period. The upcoming six month period is
of course going to be extraordinarily strong, but then even
into twenty twenty six, I mean, management was talking about
how they have really this excellent standout content lineup. So
(03:36):
content is obviously going to be a very, very big
thing for them. But as we kind of look out,
you know, every year has its own special you know catalyst.
So in twenty twenty four, for instance, it was subscriber growth.
It was all about subscriber growth, and you had you know,
this password crackdown initiative. You had the new advertising tier
that pulled in over forty million new subscribers just in
(03:58):
that one year. Then for this year, twenty twenty five,
it's really all about price increases, right, So they already
raised prices. We're talking about sixteen to twenty percent price
increases across most markets, and they're going to continue to
raise prices, a lot of it on the back of
that content slate, that that monster content slate. But then
really as we kind of look forward to twenty twenty six,
(04:19):
the big catalyst, and I think the big market mover
for Netflix will be its advertising business. So we've kind
of seen them, you know, dabble a little bit in advertising.
They've been a little bit late to the game, I
would say in advertising. This was a pure subscription service.
But they've gotten i think most of the pieces ready
for that business to take off in a big way.
(04:40):
They said that, you know, they're upfront sales so far
has been pretty pretty encouraging. And you're absolutely right in
terms of the live piece of the puzzle there, because
they really need to have a very good live event
strategy in order to attract all of those top global
brands and top advertisers. And I think they're doing exactly that.
And so next year we're going to see advertising. I mean,
it's so far it's doing still pretty well. They've said
(05:03):
that they're on track to double their advertising revenue for
twenty twenty five. But I think it's going to take
off in a really really big way next year and
then my twenty twenty you know, in another few years time.
I mean expect this to be about ten to fifteen
percent of their total revenue. So it is going to
become a big portion of their growth story going forward.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yeah. I love the live events like the boxing match
Amanda Serrano. I was all over then.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
It was a good one.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So you mentioned these prices, So how much can Netflix
continue to raise their prices for subscribers, I mean before
they start to tune now, before Emily Grafeo shuts it off.
Speaker 7 (05:39):
I actually think they have very good pricing power and
a lot of that, of course, is going to be
based off of the content. And they're obviously continuously investing
in the content, you know, in a discipline way, but
they're definitely broadening it, they're deepening it, and the content
definitely has huge appeal. I mean we've seen this, you know,
time and time again when they put out all of
their engagement. You have every Netflix subscriber watching you know,
(06:03):
the Netflix content for an average of about at least
two hours a day. So that's definitely pretty strong, you know.
So they're going to continue to keep adding to that
content in terms of you know, live events, in terms
of other things, and you know, it's I think that
is definitely going to be a big growth catalyst for them.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Just very quickly in the last thirty seconds here Githa
talk about their their competition right now, because there are
a ton of streaming services. But obviously, i mean Netflix
is up about ninety percent over the last year. Did
this earnings result show us that they're still the clear
leader in streaming?
Speaker 7 (06:41):
Yeah, they are the undisputed leader. I mean, there's there's
absolutely no doubt about this. They've won the streaming wars.
The only one other name that kind of keeps coming
up in terms of you know, viewing time would be YouTube,
But I think both of those platforms are very different.
So Netflix really kind of specializes in premium content and
scripted content and prestige dramas. YouTube is really more for
(07:04):
kind of casual user generated content. But again, you know
the way that Netflix management has kind of framed this
whole question about competition is that you know, they still
have If you kind of just look at the whole
viewing time, Netflix and YouTube combined only have about a
twenty percent share, so they're really really eighty percent is
(07:25):
still up for grabs. And the way that you know,
Netflix is kind of characterizing that there's still plenty of
upside in terms of them kind of capturing more share.
But you're absolutely right, they are way ahead of their
competitors in terms of viewing share right now.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
All right, Thank you very much, Githa. Always glad to
have your inside. That's Keitha Ranganath and Bloomberg Intelligence analyst
on the US media, keeping us all on top of
Netflix learning.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast Catch us Live
weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android
Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on the and
wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
All right, welcome back to Bloomberg Intelligence Radio. I'm Emily
Graffeo with Lisa Matteo. Paul Sweeney is out. We had
a slew of earnings today and a good read on
the consumer coming out of American Express shares. We're falling,
but the credit card company's expenses were higher than expected.
Tdcowan called the results neutral overall, noted that the earnings
(08:26):
upside was driven by a lower than expected tax rate.
We're going to have Paige Smith, Bloomberg Consumer Finance reporter,
break all of this down. Maybe we could start with
how Amex is standing out from competitors right now and
what did the earnings overall show us.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Because it does really feel like this is a crowded.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Space here for like premium credit cards and premium consumer
finance companies.
Speaker 6 (08:50):
Certainly, thanks for having me.
Speaker 8 (08:51):
I think the one thing that I would note that
the Steve Squerrey, who's the CEO of Amex, got a
lot of questions on this this morning on the analy
call just the idea that you know, of course, the
premium space folks who really love rewards on their credit cards, travel, hospitality,
airport lounges, all of those nice things. It's a very
crowded space and it's getting more crowded. Actually, City just
(09:15):
announced earlier this week, for example, that they were actually
re entering the space after sort of taking a bit
of hiatus there. So it's it's certainly an area to watch.
But AMEX really asserted itself during this batch of earnings
to basically say, listen, we are sort of the original
premium premium card offer company here and we're going to
(09:40):
continue being the premium card offering for consumers in the US.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Now, they had record card members spending, So what does
that say about the state of the consumer they're continuing
to swipe away.
Speaker 8 (09:51):
Yes, that was another question that Steve fielded a couple
of times on the earnings call. It essentially does say
that folks in the premium space are continuing to swipe,
tap and spend.
Speaker 6 (10:01):
In every preferred way.
Speaker 8 (10:04):
And yes, it's it's sort of all's well for the
MX consumer at this moment in time.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Certainly, did we learn anything about any specific updates to
the Platinum Card because people get so obsessed with the
people love the updates.
Speaker 8 (10:22):
And again, yes, it was certainly asked, and no, we
do not have.
Speaker 6 (10:27):
Any more updates for you just yet.
Speaker 8 (10:29):
We know again that the updates are coming in the fall,
and we know the competitive landscape is tight.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
But are they going to raise the price?
Speaker 8 (10:38):
I think it's safe to say that they're going to
raise the price. That's me putting my spin on things.
But if they didn't raise the price, it would be
a pretty a pretty great deal, I'll put it that way.
And I don't think the economics would really make sense
for the card if they did not raise the price.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
But I'm thinking, so if more people are taking advantage
of all these perks, right, because I know I do,
like if I'm tracking my points like crazy, So does
that kind of mean that, you know what, the consumer
is kind of cautious at the same time because we
want to go for those deals.
Speaker 6 (11:09):
I you know, that's a really good question. I don't
know if that's the case.
Speaker 8 (11:12):
I think that there are a lot of deals in
rewards hounds out there, like yourself, who really just track
it very closely. And there was a comment made on
the call that it was something along the lines of,
you know, consumers really like these rewards and they track
them very closely and they pay for value. So it's
I wouldn't say it's maybe a warning sign. I would
(11:34):
say it's more of a sign of like a savvy
consumer per se.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Stable coins are very hot right now on Wall Street.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Is that a threat to Amex's business.
Speaker 8 (11:44):
Well, so, it's certainly been the flavor of the week,
if you will.
Speaker 6 (11:47):
Stable coin. The word stable.
Speaker 8 (11:50):
Coin has popped up in pretty much every earnings call
I've tuned into over the last week, and whether it's
the big Wall Street banks or even Schwab mentioned earlier.
Schwab reported earnings this morning as well. And you know,
when it comes to Amex, they basically said they're very
closely watching the technology to see how they can either
(12:12):
issue their own stable coin or partner on a stable
coin offering of some kind. It's still they sort of
hedged and said it's still early days relatively, but one
thing was very clear, which is Steve Squery came right
out and said, is this a threat to existing payment rails?
Speaker 6 (12:29):
No, it is not.
Speaker 8 (12:30):
And that's kind of the same thing that we've been
hearing kind of across the payments companies, whether it's from Visa, MasterCard, AMX.
Speaker 6 (12:37):
Kind of the same tone there.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
So are people paying off their MX bill? I mean,
how credit card debt?
Speaker 8 (12:43):
So an interesting stat actually that they highlighted in this
round of earnings was that gen Z so AMEX is
making a pretty concerted push in the younger consumer space
at the moment.
Speaker 6 (12:55):
And they highlighted that gen Z and.
Speaker 8 (12:59):
Gen Z and MILLENNI ill spenders were paying, they were
their delinquency rates were kind of being like thirty plus
days past, you past. Their bills were actually lower than
industry industry trends for older consumers. So you would think,
you know, younger people are just getting used to paying
off credit cards and sort of learning about how to
(13:21):
handle their debt. And there was kind of some question
about AMEX targeting these younger consumers with this like premium
credit card that comes with PES, but they've basically countered
and said, hey, so far, so good. They're actually paying
them off. You know, the delinquency rates are quite low
compared with the industry, definitely lower compared with the industry
(13:42):
in their peer group, but even lower among older consumers.
So kind of an interesting metric. I thought that they
highlighted this morning.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Well that's some good news. There's a bill you have
to Paige my thank you so much for joining us
here in the studio. She's Bloomberg Consumer finance reporter talking
about AMEX and credit card debt and all of that.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto
with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you
get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Then Li smitheo alongside Emily GRIFFEO. You were listening to
Bloomberg Intelligence. Paul Sweeney does have the day off. Okay,
So twenty five year old trading powerhouse Jane Street in
the glare of a global spotlight. At least that's according
to Katherine Doherty. She's Bloomberg Finance reporter. Her latest big
take story. This one a lot to dive into, but
I want to start by setting the table, like who
(14:39):
is Jane Street and what's that apart from other firms
out there.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
So, Jane Street has become one of the largest trading
firms in the US and really across the globe. They
started out. Their founders are from Susquehanna. That's another trading
firm that they compete with today. But over the years
they have really developed their technology and their people to
generate billions of dollars in revenue. They've grown so large
(15:07):
that their trading revenue has surpassed some of the biggest
US banks. They're now larger in scale at least the
money that they're making than Bank of America and City Group.
So we're talking a lot of money. And they are
really behind the scenes. So I like to think about
them as they are responsible for the plumbing of the
(15:29):
market and making sure that all of the trading is
actually just moving through the system. They're handling orders from customers,
not directly, some of it is indirectly. If you have
a retail broker, they're the ones that are receiving the
order from their clients. That order gets sent to a
firm like Jane Street, and Jane Street handles the actual
(15:51):
execution to make sure that they're matching the buyer and
the seller. They might take the order and then eventually
they sell it off. But the man player, that's Jane Street.
They're the reason that trading can continue. Them and their
peers play a very important role in the market structure overall.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
There is some regulatory scrutiny right now in India when
it comes to Jane Street, which we're going to get
to in a second. But you write in this big
take that you wrote along with Bernard Goid that they're
famously secretive.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Why are they so secretive on Wall Street?
Speaker 5 (16:27):
Well, number one, they don't really have to say a lot.
This is a private company. What they do doesn't require
public interface at all. They're providing a service and they
don't have to answer to shareholders. So many times they
would they would like to operate.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
In the dark in many ways.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
It doesn't necessarily mean what's going on behind the scenes
and what's happening in the dark is nefarious at all.
There's just not really a reason to say anything. But
what they do is so And who who works for
Jane Street is a is a very particular type of person.
They have quants, they have mathematicians, and this is not
(17:08):
unique to to Jane Street.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Other peers like.
Speaker 5 (17:11):
Citadel Securities and Hudson River Trading. They also attract those
types of people that go to these firms but those
are not the type of people that are in the
business to speak out and and they're just doing their
job because they're providing a service and that service doesn't
necessarily need words. It's it's it's a lot of really
(17:34):
intricate again, it's it's the uh, it's the analysis of
just how the markets are are moving and and they're
trying to just be faster and better than their peers.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
It's all about competition.
Speaker 5 (17:49):
And they say all of the market makers, like a
Jane Street and a Citadel Securities would say that competition
is a good thing because if you are trying to
be faster, that of going to be a good thing
for their customers because orders are going to be priced tighter,
you're not going to lose as much money.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
And really, the reason that the market has.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
Evolved in the age of electronic trading in the way
that it has is because of these firms.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Now, Catherine, you're a pro, so is there anything that
surprised you when you were when you were doing this
research for this story.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
I would not say I'm a pro at all.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
Actually, I mean the reason I enjoy, the reason I
enjoy reporting on firms like this is I'm learning so
much and the people that work in the markets covering
market structure here at Bloomberg, I am fascinated by just
how niche and how nerdy it goes. So I mean,
I would say what surprised me in this reporting, what
(18:47):
surprised everyone on Wall Street was when the numbers were
starting to come out of how much money firms like
Jane Street were making. It was to surpass the big
US banks in terms of creating revenue. That was incredibly
surprising and something that even competitors to Jane Would would
(19:07):
look and say, how are they doing what they do
on the scale that they do? And the answer to
that in my reporting and a lot of what this
story is about is the amount of risk that this
firm is taking.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Now.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
The reason that they can take so much risk, that's
another element to it. It's not as if they're just
throwing caution to the wind. They they're doing this and
they know exactly how much risk they're able to take.
The reason they can stomach the risk is because of
the capital that they're working with. That capital, the money
that they are putting out there and they're for lack
(19:43):
of a better word, playing with it's so large and
it's all theirs. So if you are a hedge fund
as comparison that money, you have to answer to shareholders.
So if you're taking big risks and it doesn't work out, well,
it's not just oh sucks for us, that's really bad
for your clients and your customers.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Jane Street, that's their capital.
Speaker 5 (20:04):
So they might take bigger risk because they think there's
going to be a bigger reward on the other side,
and if it doesn't work out, it's not as if
they have to go explain that or their profit and
loss is all their own money. So it's much different
than the approaches that the banks and hedge funds take
(20:24):
on potentially the other side.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
We have about a minute left and this is definitely
a story that I know we're going to be hearing
more reporting on from you. But regulators are watching Jane
Street specifically in India. Just give us the high level
what the Securities in Exchange Board of India SEB is
looking at.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
So they're looking at Jane Street's trading behavior specifically in
the options market. The regulator came out over July fourth
weekend within one hundred and five page order outlining what
they are alleging is market manipulation, and not go too
far into the weeds, but they're pointing out a few things,
(21:04):
the size of the trades that this firm is putting on,
and because of the size, the impact to the overall market,
and they're claiming that Jane Street's behavior is ultimately harmful
to the end investor.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
So this is playing out.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
The firm has denied that it is doing anything that
is nefarious or would be considered market manipulation, So we'll
see what happens next.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
All right, Catherine Doughty, thank you for joining us right
here in the studio this morning. She is Bloomberg Finance reporter.
You got to check out that article on the terminal.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
This is the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each
weekday ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com,
the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app.
You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube
and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.
Speaker 7 (22:02):
Yeah,
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