September 22, 2025 • 23 mins
Watch Scarlet and Paul LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF.
Bloomberg Intelligence hosted by Paul Sweeney and Scarlet Fu
-Mandeep Singh, Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Tech Industry Analyst and Anurag Rana, Bloomberg Intelligence Technology Analyst, discuss the White House saying that Oracle Corp. would recreate and provide security for a new US version of TikTok’s algorithm under a deal taking shape to sell the popular Chinese-owned app to a consortium of American investors.
- Sam Fazeli, Bloomberg Intelligence, Director of Research for Global Industries and Senior Pharmaceuticals, discusses Pfizer agreeing to buy Metsera for an enterprise value of about $4.9 billion to catch up in the booming obesity market.
- Mark Gurman, Bloomberg News Managing Editor for Global Consumer Tech, discusses Oura Health Oy raising $875 million in a new Series E financing round valuing it around $10.9 billion.
- John Butler, Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Telecom Analyst, discusses T-Mobile US Inc elevating its chief operating officer, Srini Gopalan, to the chief executive officer spot on Nov. 1, replacing Mike Sievert.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the
Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am
Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg
Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts,
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Speaker 2 (00:24):
All right, let's talk tech.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
There's a lot going on out there. I want to see.
I'm doing this for John Tucker. He's a big TikTok
per person here, and he's really interested to see what's
going to be happening at this what's his handle with
what you.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Love those thirty second videos about really stupid stuff.
Speaker 5 (00:38):
Thinks on rumbas, Right, kats.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Gotta have it.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
That's why when we talk about cats and roomors, we
talk to our senior technology analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, man
Deep sing On, Rona Mandeeps here in our studio on
a Rocks in our Chicago bureau. Let's just talk Mandeep,
just what's the latest on TikTok here? Because I'm seeing
some big private equity guys might be involved, some big
tech names may be involved. What's going on here with TikTok?
Speaker 6 (01:05):
Yes, I think the White House is definitely keen to
get a deal done. And as you said, there are
multiple parties involved. Oracle is the publicly traded entity that's
front end center in terms of being the lead company
that will be owning TikTok along with these other private investors.
(01:27):
And look, at the end of the day, it's clear
the algorithm would be rewritten or they would be licensing it.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
That is, that was a.
Speaker 6 (01:35):
Sticking point all along. So Oracle already has the data
for TikTok in their data centers, so that part is
already sorted out, and it looks like there will be
a deal done. I mean, the more private investors are involved,
it kind of makes it hard who will determine the
(01:55):
stratity in this age of AI, given all these companies
are focused on and LLLM, so who would call the
shots in terms of what the future TikTok will look like.
But at least it will be owned by US entity
and private investors based in US.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
And Oracle is going to play a key role, a
big role in operating everything, including retraining a copy of
the algorithm that the US based TikTok would lease from
Byteedance an rag. I mean, we knew that that was
kind of in the works from the get go. But
what's surprising me today is some CEO announcements from Oracle
(02:32):
Saffracats is being succeeded by two cocos.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Is this news a surprise.
Speaker 7 (02:39):
Well, it's a surprise, yes, But at the same time,
I think Oracles in a very strong position right now.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
You know, I would say, go back several years.
Speaker 7 (02:46):
I think somewhere around twenty fourteen, Larry Ellison had appointed
Safa and Mark Hurd as the co CEOs, But I
think Safra has been there for a very long period
of time. Now they're basically saying they're going to move
on the leadership to much younger people. And one of
them actually is the leader who runs OCI or Oracle
(03:06):
cloud infrastructure, which is behind the TikTok deal, as well
as all the other AI deals that we're seeing right now.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Googles and facebooks of the world and the competitors to TikTok.
I mean, this is no foregone conclusion that this thing's
going to work, is it? Because I'm still I'm a
TikTok user. I still got to, I guess, get a
new map port all my stuff and do I mean
we're not sure this scene going to work.
Speaker 6 (03:29):
Is it?
Speaker 8 (03:30):
It is?
Speaker 6 (03:30):
And also a lot of the creators have moved to
these alternative platforms given this unsanatory has been there for
you know, almost more than a year now. So who's
benefiting I mean your YouTube, Instagram to an extend Snapchat.
But to my mind, the whole focus has shifted from
(03:53):
you know, which who has the best recommendation algorithm to
who can have the best AI based on the data
they have? So look at you know. What open ai
has done is used all the open Internet data. What
Meta is trying to do with their superintelligence is use
their social network data to come up with a better
(04:14):
large anglid model. That's what Gemini is doing, and I
think that's where the smaller players have a disadvantage. Or Snapchat,
even though it may gain some engagement, it just doesn't
have the infrastructure to train their own large anglid model
based on the data they have. That's what you would
hope to see with a company like TikTok Us that
they focus on training their own large anglid model based
(04:37):
on the video data that they have. But I doubt
when you have got so many players involved, that's never
good for you know, a long term strategy where you
focus on building a product first and then monetizing. It
would be more about making the company profitable and making
sure they have a return on investment for what they're doing.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
I mean, this is going to be a complicated transaction
because the law mandates this stick to sale to US owners,
but it forbids byttance from any operational role, including with software. Meantime,
China's law X bars the export of sensitive technology like
the algorithms. So I guess, anach My question to you
is is it not only technically feasible to fully disentangle
(05:15):
TikTok from bytans, but will US lawmakers accept whatever convoluted
plan has come up here?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
You know, I think that has been very clear.
Speaker 7 (05:25):
I mean, I imagine if you go back, you know,
back in January, we're supposed to be shut down, but
people have been operating it.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Oracle has been hosting it.
Speaker 7 (05:32):
So I think Oracle is going to go out and
say we have control over the data, we have control
over the algorithm.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
And I think that may let's let's hope that.
Speaker 7 (05:41):
Will pacify all the regulators and the uh, you know,
the Congress out there.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
So many. Do we know who the CEO USA is
going to be, who the CFO is going to be,
what the board?
Speaker 5 (05:52):
Oh good question.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
I mean we don't know any of that.
Speaker 6 (05:54):
No, no, I mean the transaction isn't even finalized. We're
still hearing rumors about who the private investors are going
to be, and that list seems to be growing, you know,
beyond the private equity guys. Now it's a Rupert Murdoch.
And you know, it was interesting to hear their names. Okay,
but look, I mean it will be somebody seasoned. My
(06:15):
only hunt here is they may be too focused on
you know, the algorithm where the bigger opportunity lies in
the LM. And you know how a video LLLM could
be gamescha AI everything.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
Well, you know we always have to bring everything back
to AI.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah, he knows what get they clicks, he knows what's
going on. We trained them. Well, all right, just on
what's the thirty second stuff. What's the big thing you're
looking at this week?
Speaker 7 (06:40):
This week it's going to be Apple and how the
pro is going to be doing in the market.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Stay with us.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Up after this.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live
weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Coarplay and Android
Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever
you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
I swear this whole healthcare discussion used to be more
than just obesity drugs.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
I know, but it feels like that's the most exciting
part of the healthcare world, the pharmer world.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yes, I don't know. I mean Sampa's Ellie Joints is here.
He's a director of research for Global Industries. He's also
like the best healthcare guy over there in Europe, is
based in London, one of the leaders there, and we
talked to him all the time.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Sam.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
It looks like again Pfizer here spending four point nine
billion dollars for this obesity startups. Met Sarah, what can
you tell us about? Met Sarah?
Speaker 8 (07:37):
Yeah, well how are you doing so?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
And Scarlett?
Speaker 8 (07:40):
Nice to have you both again taking about this topic.
Thank you, topic of obesity. So look, just to answer
your your opening point, obesity is one of the key
causes of a whole variety of diseases cardiovascular, cancer, mental health.
So we can treat it if we can prevent it,
(08:01):
if we can reduce it, it's brilliant for the entirety of society.
Here there is a deal where I thinks they've got
something that's going to be able to give them a
chance at playing in this very important area and very
massive market. Right. So the drugs are interesting, they're relatively
early stage. We're looking to see with some new data
(08:23):
coming up, whether some of the promise that we've seen
earlier for these drugs that the company has, which the
latest stage one is still in phase two. They need
to start the phase three in twenty twenty six, whether
they are as competitive as they looked in the earlier trials.
There were some questions on efficacy less so than side
effect profile, So we'll have to wait and see how
(08:43):
that pans out.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
Sam, can you get into the science a little bit
and maybe you know, keep it basic for folks like
Paul and me, Because Metzara is described as the next
generation hopeful in obesities. They use these long acting amlin
analogs versus GLP one, and I'm wondering for people who
might behold out for matsera's treatment what that means versus
the currently available zep bound or we goo v.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (09:08):
Yeah, So the latest stage drug is very similar to
we go vy and similar to zepetite or zip bound,
and the anlin drug is a little bit early stage.
Earlier stage, there are companies were more advanced drugs in
that world, but they all kind of feed into the
same pathway, which is the pathway that talks between your
(09:32):
food intake and your satiety centers in your brain and
your insulin centers in your pancreas it tries to balance
of eaten enough, let's stop eating now, and let's release
some insulin make it more sensitive so that we can
deal with the onslaughter sugar that comes into our blood.
That's where they are is that's central to that space.
(09:53):
There's cells in the gut that release look on like
GLP ones, gk on like peptize the cells in other
parts of the body who are responding to it. So
that's where these things sit, and amulin is just one
of those agents in the middle of it.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
SA I'm just kind of stepping back on his GLP
one drugs in general, there's a certain level of efficacy today,
there's a certain level of say, side effect, whether it's
a large or something else today. Is there a room
for improvement on both efficacy and side effects going forward
with these drugs?
Speaker 8 (10:25):
Yeah, I mean with it's the balance that's the most importantacy.
I think we're pretty much there. I mean, you know,
there are folks that we know that go on a
drug for a week or two and they lose four
or five kilograms. That's fine. You don't want to lose
much faster than that, because I don't think it's particularly
healthy if you lose weight at a much higher speed.
And also you don't want to get much lighter than
(10:47):
a aty kilo or ninety kilo or seventy five kilograms,
depending on your size. So the key is how do
you get there? If you get there by having lots
of side effects in your probability of staying on the
drug is lower, but we want you to stay on
the drug. So it's a very very tight balance. And
then of course you have to figure out what am
I happy taking a weekly injection, which I think a
(11:07):
lot of people are not. Don't have a problem with it,
But what if Mitzra's writing can push it to once monthly.
What if some of the other competitors coming along with
once every three months now. Those are things that we
have to wait and see how the data shows in
terms of that balance. Have just referred to Sam.
Speaker 5 (11:23):
We mentioned earlier the headline that the White House now
says doctors may be exempt from H one B visa
fees that were just an ounce of one hundred thousand dollars.
Obviously that has huge ramifications for the medical industry. What
does it mean potentially the one hundred thousand dollars fee
for H one B visas for the pharma and the
biotech industry in the US.
Speaker 8 (11:42):
Yeah, I think any industry that requires skilled workers. I
think the sector, the sector that's most exposed is one
that you guys probably have already talked about, is the
tech industry. Right in terms of pharma biotech. I think
the US has really good existing talent. The point is, though,
(12:04):
that sometimes a particular talent is based somewhere else. You
just want that particular person. So why do you have
to go through this process if they really are the
one person who knows this particular disease area so well,
and does really one or two people at that level
make a difference, Especially in a sector where US is
already a leader, You're not really bringing in people to
(12:26):
compete with the US talent. So that's something that I
think is important to remember. Doctors, of course, you know
the country that doesn't like Europe, many countries in Europe
on producing enough doctors. UK especially, you need to allow.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
That stay with us.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Coarclay, and Android
Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever
you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
Let's go down to Mark German. He's our go to
tech gadget guy for more on Aura because we're just
talking about how Aura's the company that owns Aura that
how Wellness Ring is now an eleven billion dollar company
with its latest capital raise. Mark, this is a finish
company and it needed to raise more money, didn't it.
Speaker 9 (13:21):
Definitely they want to scale production, they want to scale
r Indeed, they want to move into new regions, they
want to get into new retail stores, they want to
add new software features. So they're looking to grow quickly.
This nearly eleven billion dollar valuation. This is a you know,
a pretty specific hardware company. They really make one thing,
(13:41):
and if you look at their market cap now after
that raise, you compare it to other companies that are
known for really one type of hardware product Peloton, Eye, Robot,
Sonos bos Aura is now worth more than all of
them combined, which is pretty crazy to think about. So
(14:02):
so far, this looks to be a success story. It's
not a very old company, but it's a company doing
effective things and they're clearly building a product that people like.
They've sold three million units in the last fourteen fifteen
months or so. They've sold five and a half million
rings to date. They're due to cross one billion in
revenue in twenty five, a billion and a half in
(14:24):
twenty six. They did five hundred million in twenty four
so they seem to be growing quite nicely.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
I don't know, not being into the ring fit ring
business myself.
Speaker 5 (14:35):
Fitring, I like that fit ring.
Speaker 8 (14:37):
I mean, this.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Seems like something that your friends in Cooper Tina could
come out with tomorrow and copycat. How do you think
about the competitive landscape.
Speaker 9 (14:45):
Yeah, the competitive landscape is interesting. There's a few smaller
players that are also doing smart rings. Samsung rolled out
what they call the Galaxy Ring last year, and for Samsung,
who's actually been a dud, the functionality is just not
on par with Aura. What Aura as is a very
strong brand, They have very strong functionality, and they have
(15:05):
that big first mover advantage. But you're right, if Apple
comes out with the ring, They're gonna eat Aura's lunch.
You know. Aura's perspective is that they have this gigantic
and tried and true in legal proceedings patent portfolio, and
so they feel that if Apple were to come out
(15:26):
with a ring, or another company were to really hit
the nail on the head with a ring, that they
would be able to defend their patents. And they've shown
to be able to do that. They have some cases
in front of the International Trade Commission and other organizations
right now for some of the other competitors. So we'll
see what happens. I don't anticipate Apple coming out with
(15:46):
a ring anytime soon. I will say that this ten
billion dollar valuation is a little bit of a double
edged sword. On one hand, that's amazing for the company.
On the other hand, it puts them in territory where
they're probably not going to be acquired or bought in,
which would spur another company like Apple if they wanted
to ring develop one versus by them. And definitely they're
(16:08):
going to have to make a decision in the next
couple of years whether they're going to go public via
an IPO spat or if they're going to stay private.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Stay with us.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
weekdays at ten am easterne on Apple, Cocklay and Android
Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever
you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
Let's go back to a story that we were talking
about earlier, which is the CEO change over at T Mobile.
We just spoke earlier with the outgoing CEO and the
incoming CEO with our Bloomberg Television colleagues Caroline Hyde and
Ed Ludlow, and so now we want to bring in
our Bloomberg Intelligence expert, John Butler, the senior telecom analyst
for more on this side. John, was this a surprise?
Speaker 4 (16:58):
This changeover all? This was incredibly well broadcast. Shriney has
been hitting the conference circuit, so at this time of year,
all the major investment banks hold these conferences, and he's
been in almost everyone sort of out there telling the
T Mobiles story. And in my mind it answers one
(17:19):
of two questions. Right with any incoming CEO, You're like,
can they manage the company effectively? And can they manage
the stock effectively? Can they get that narrative out? It's
been a good story and he is really good at that.
So he's answered the second question and I think in
some ways he's answered the first as well.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Talk to us about the wireless business these days. It's
just a brutally competitive business. Just give us the lay
of the land there between AT and T, Verizon, T Mobile,
and anybody else who might be out there.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
I mean, the big three are still dominant. Paul and
T Mobile has executed beautifully over the past few years.
You know, they've done a very good of sort of
securing the lead in terms of subscriber growth by you know,
marketing on this hip counterculture brand image. They continue to be,
(18:14):
I think, having an outsized impact on consumers. When you
think a wireless it really is a consumer retail business.
They all have thousands of stores, they advertise on the
Super Bowl, they have giveaways, and I think T Mobile
more than most really does that well. And I think
the Big three, because of their scale set, it sort
(18:35):
of sets this sort of wide mode for any newcomers
that want to come in. So Mobile as number two
in the industry, I think is going to remain firmly
in that place, if not move into the number one
position over the next several years. Number one Zon Number
one is Verizon still, so I'm a Verizon person.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
I am too, But I just went to Italy and
how did what did you do for your phone needs?
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Fine, it's just I have a plan that just ports
over to an international.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
Okay, because as do uh huh.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
All of my offspring that's the only thing that I
still pay for.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
Yes, no one, no one wants to give that up.
Why pay for your own clone service when dad will
pay for it. I switched over to T Mobile because
of the giveaways, yes, because of the free iPhone last cycle,
and also because you get free data and free international
texting when you're overseas up to five gigabytes, so that
means I never have to buy an international data pison shopping.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
That is the single biggest hook I hear. So when
people come to me and they're like, I'm a T
mobile subscriber. They have all these giveaways and they have
international call.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
That makes a big difference because when I was on
AT and T, I was paying ten dollars a day
and that adds.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Up really quickly, does it really?
Speaker 8 (19:46):
You know?
Speaker 5 (19:46):
And then only one person in the family can get
it because you know, not everyone's going to.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Get it right, and they have four offspring plus an
next wife, you're still paying for it.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Well, there you go.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Charlie Pellett is on the t MO, but he he
always tries to sell me.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
To Charlie also knows the great deal. Well that's the
secret here at Bloomberg.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Charlie's traveling the strange parts of the world where he
probably needs that kind of stuff. So what's the future
of wireless in this country? Is it just our poop
growth average revenue per user? And is that kind of
the story for that is So.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
That is a great question, that is what's driving growth
now for a telco you's sort of run out of
room for adding new subs and so you need to
drive that up, that average revenue per user, and they're
doing it with the giveaways. We were just talking about
They actually charge modestly for those. In some cases they're
(20:34):
selling you phone insurance. T Mobile is now pushing into
the advertising business, but the real avenue of growth to
watch for them going forward is broadband. They are making
more and more inroads into that market and T Mobile
It's what I'm watching with the new CEO here to
see what he does in fiber broadband, because if T
(20:55):
Mobile has had any sort of a misfire over the
past decade, it's not going into fiber broadband in a
bigger way in the way that AT and TM Verizon
both have through sizeable and aggressive acquisitions. So it'll be
interesting to see what he does there. My call is
he's going to start building quickly and aggressively, would be
(21:17):
my guess.
Speaker 5 (21:18):
Another thing I just thought of that sold me on
TIM Mobile was they have a really simple bill, right,
they don't have the quoted amount and then tax on
top of that, everything's included, which makes any different.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
It's user friendly, it's very They're very good at consumer branding.
They really understand the consumer and what they want and
wireless and from their carrier so and Snoop Dogg and
Snoopy spokesperson.
Speaker 5 (21:40):
Yeah, I know, so when it comes to fierroptic, how
much more of that rollout is left? I mean, where
are they in that in that not transition, but in
that buildout. Is it like second inning or is it
eighth ining?
Speaker 4 (21:51):
So I'm going to call second inning. Here's the really
interesting fact I picked up recently. If you look at
Canada or even Europe parts of Europe, fiber broadband is
seventy percent of the total installed base of broadband subscribers.
And keep in mind, fiber is far and away the
best medium for broadband. It has truly symmetrical speed, so
(22:14):
upload and download great for zoom calls, and it's extremely
high capacity, so it's sort of future proof in that sense.
The US is only thirty percent penetrated with fibers, so
I think there's lots of room to run there. And
that's what AT and T has done so well. They
have really leaned hard into a fiber broadband strategy. Verizon
(22:37):
has and is continuing to lean in there, and T
Mobile is the laggard. So again, with the new CEO
coming in here, I'm looking to see if we'll see
any change in that strategy of theirs.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
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Speaker 2 (00:24):
All right, let's talk tech.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
There's a lot going on out there. I want to see.
I'm doing this for John Tucker. He's a big TikTok
per person here, and he's really interested to see what's
going to be happening at this what's his handle with
what you.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Love those thirty second videos about really stupid stuff.
Speaker 5 (00:38):
Thinks on rumbas, Right, kats.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Gotta have it.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
That's why when we talk about cats and roomors, we
talk to our senior technology analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, man
Deep sing On, Rona Mandeeps here in our studio on
a Rocks in our Chicago bureau. Let's just talk Mandeep,
just what's the latest on TikTok here? Because I'm seeing
some big private equity guys might be involved, some big
tech names may be involved. What's going on here with TikTok?
Speaker 6 (01:05):
Yes, I think the White House is definitely keen to
get a deal done. And as you said, there are
multiple parties involved. Oracle is the publicly traded entity that's
front end center in terms of being the lead company
that will be owning TikTok along with these other private investors.
(01:27):
And look, at the end of the day, it's clear
the algorithm would be rewritten or they would be licensing it.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
That is, that was a.
Speaker 6 (01:35):
Sticking point all along. So Oracle already has the data
for TikTok in their data centers, so that part is
already sorted out, and it looks like there will be
a deal done. I mean, the more private investors are involved,
it kind of makes it hard who will determine the
(01:55):
stratity in this age of AI, given all these companies
are focused on and LLLM, so who would call the
shots in terms of what the future TikTok will look like.
But at least it will be owned by US entity
and private investors based in US.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
And Oracle is going to play a key role, a
big role in operating everything, including retraining a copy of
the algorithm that the US based TikTok would lease from
Byteedance an rag. I mean, we knew that that was
kind of in the works from the get go. But
what's surprising me today is some CEO announcements from Oracle
(02:32):
Saffracats is being succeeded by two cocos.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Is this news a surprise.
Speaker 7 (02:39):
Well, it's a surprise, yes, But at the same time,
I think Oracles in a very strong position right now.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
You know, I would say, go back several years.
Speaker 7 (02:46):
I think somewhere around twenty fourteen, Larry Ellison had appointed
Safa and Mark Hurd as the co CEOs, But I
think Safra has been there for a very long period
of time. Now they're basically saying they're going to move
on the leadership to much younger people. And one of
them actually is the leader who runs OCI or Oracle
(03:06):
cloud infrastructure, which is behind the TikTok deal, as well
as all the other AI deals that we're seeing right now.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Googles and facebooks of the world and the competitors to TikTok.
I mean, this is no foregone conclusion that this thing's
going to work, is it? Because I'm still I'm a
TikTok user. I still got to, I guess, get a
new map port all my stuff and do I mean
we're not sure this scene going to work.
Speaker 6 (03:29):
Is it?
Speaker 8 (03:30):
It is?
Speaker 6 (03:30):
And also a lot of the creators have moved to
these alternative platforms given this unsanatory has been there for
you know, almost more than a year now. So who's
benefiting I mean your YouTube, Instagram to an extend Snapchat.
But to my mind, the whole focus has shifted from
(03:53):
you know, which who has the best recommendation algorithm to
who can have the best AI based on the data
they have? So look at you know. What open ai
has done is used all the open Internet data. What
Meta is trying to do with their superintelligence is use
their social network data to come up with a better
(04:14):
large anglid model. That's what Gemini is doing, and I
think that's where the smaller players have a disadvantage. Or Snapchat,
even though it may gain some engagement, it just doesn't
have the infrastructure to train their own large anglid model
based on the data they have. That's what you would
hope to see with a company like TikTok Us that
they focus on training their own large anglid model based
(04:37):
on the video data that they have. But I doubt
when you have got so many players involved, that's never
good for you know, a long term strategy where you
focus on building a product first and then monetizing. It
would be more about making the company profitable and making
sure they have a return on investment for what they're doing.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
I mean, this is going to be a complicated transaction
because the law mandates this stick to sale to US owners,
but it forbids byttance from any operational role, including with software. Meantime,
China's law X bars the export of sensitive technology like
the algorithms. So I guess, anach My question to you
is is it not only technically feasible to fully disentangle
(05:15):
TikTok from bytans, but will US lawmakers accept whatever convoluted
plan has come up here?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
You know, I think that has been very clear.
Speaker 7 (05:25):
I mean, I imagine if you go back, you know,
back in January, we're supposed to be shut down, but
people have been operating it.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Oracle has been hosting it.
Speaker 7 (05:32):
So I think Oracle is going to go out and
say we have control over the data, we have control
over the algorithm.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
And I think that may let's let's hope that.
Speaker 7 (05:41):
Will pacify all the regulators and the uh, you know,
the Congress out there.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
So many. Do we know who the CEO USA is
going to be, who the CFO is going to be,
what the board?
Speaker 5 (05:52):
Oh good question.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
I mean we don't know any of that.
Speaker 6 (05:54):
No, no, I mean the transaction isn't even finalized. We're
still hearing rumors about who the private investors are going
to be, and that list seems to be growing, you know,
beyond the private equity guys. Now it's a Rupert Murdoch.
And you know, it was interesting to hear their names. Okay,
but look, I mean it will be somebody seasoned. My
(06:15):
only hunt here is they may be too focused on
you know, the algorithm where the bigger opportunity lies in
the LM. And you know how a video LLLM could
be gamescha AI everything.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
Well, you know we always have to bring everything back
to AI.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah, he knows what get they clicks, he knows what's
going on. We trained them. Well, all right, just on
what's the thirty second stuff. What's the big thing you're
looking at this week?
Speaker 7 (06:40):
This week it's going to be Apple and how the
pro is going to be doing in the market.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Stay with us.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Up after this.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live
weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Coarplay and Android
Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever
you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
I swear this whole healthcare discussion used to be more
than just obesity drugs.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
I know, but it feels like that's the most exciting
part of the healthcare world, the pharmer world.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yes, I don't know. I mean Sampa's Ellie Joints is here.
He's a director of research for Global Industries. He's also
like the best healthcare guy over there in Europe, is
based in London, one of the leaders there, and we
talked to him all the time.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Sam.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
It looks like again Pfizer here spending four point nine
billion dollars for this obesity startups. Met Sarah, what can
you tell us about? Met Sarah?
Speaker 8 (07:37):
Yeah, well how are you doing so?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
And Scarlett?
Speaker 8 (07:40):
Nice to have you both again taking about this topic.
Thank you, topic of obesity. So look, just to answer
your your opening point, obesity is one of the key
causes of a whole variety of diseases cardiovascular, cancer, mental health.
So we can treat it if we can prevent it,
(08:01):
if we can reduce it, it's brilliant for the entirety of society.
Here there is a deal where I thinks they've got
something that's going to be able to give them a
chance at playing in this very important area and very
massive market. Right. So the drugs are interesting, they're relatively
early stage. We're looking to see with some new data
(08:23):
coming up, whether some of the promise that we've seen
earlier for these drugs that the company has, which the
latest stage one is still in phase two. They need
to start the phase three in twenty twenty six, whether
they are as competitive as they looked in the earlier trials.
There were some questions on efficacy less so than side
effect profile, So we'll have to wait and see how
(08:43):
that pans out.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
Sam, can you get into the science a little bit
and maybe you know, keep it basic for folks like
Paul and me, Because Metzara is described as the next
generation hopeful in obesities. They use these long acting amlin
analogs versus GLP one, and I'm wondering for people who
might behold out for matsera's treatment what that means versus
the currently available zep bound or we goo v.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (09:08):
Yeah, So the latest stage drug is very similar to
we go vy and similar to zepetite or zip bound,
and the anlin drug is a little bit early stage.
Earlier stage, there are companies were more advanced drugs in
that world, but they all kind of feed into the
same pathway, which is the pathway that talks between your
(09:32):
food intake and your satiety centers in your brain and
your insulin centers in your pancreas it tries to balance
of eaten enough, let's stop eating now, and let's release
some insulin make it more sensitive so that we can
deal with the onslaughter sugar that comes into our blood.
That's where they are is that's central to that space.
(09:53):
There's cells in the gut that release look on like
GLP ones, gk on like peptize the cells in other
parts of the body who are responding to it. So
that's where these things sit, and amulin is just one
of those agents in the middle of it.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
SA I'm just kind of stepping back on his GLP
one drugs in general, there's a certain level of efficacy today,
there's a certain level of say, side effect, whether it's
a large or something else today. Is there a room
for improvement on both efficacy and side effects going forward
with these drugs?
Speaker 8 (10:25):
Yeah, I mean with it's the balance that's the most importantacy.
I think we're pretty much there. I mean, you know,
there are folks that we know that go on a
drug for a week or two and they lose four
or five kilograms. That's fine. You don't want to lose
much faster than that, because I don't think it's particularly
healthy if you lose weight at a much higher speed.
And also you don't want to get much lighter than
(10:47):
a aty kilo or ninety kilo or seventy five kilograms,
depending on your size. So the key is how do
you get there? If you get there by having lots
of side effects in your probability of staying on the
drug is lower, but we want you to stay on
the drug. So it's a very very tight balance. And
then of course you have to figure out what am
I happy taking a weekly injection, which I think a
(11:07):
lot of people are not. Don't have a problem with it,
But what if Mitzra's writing can push it to once monthly.
What if some of the other competitors coming along with
once every three months now. Those are things that we
have to wait and see how the data shows in
terms of that balance. Have just referred to Sam.
Speaker 5 (11:23):
We mentioned earlier the headline that the White House now
says doctors may be exempt from H one B visa
fees that were just an ounce of one hundred thousand dollars.
Obviously that has huge ramifications for the medical industry. What
does it mean potentially the one hundred thousand dollars fee
for H one B visas for the pharma and the
biotech industry in the US.
Speaker 8 (11:42):
Yeah, I think any industry that requires skilled workers. I
think the sector, the sector that's most exposed is one
that you guys probably have already talked about, is the
tech industry. Right in terms of pharma biotech. I think
the US has really good existing talent. The point is, though,
(12:04):
that sometimes a particular talent is based somewhere else. You
just want that particular person. So why do you have
to go through this process if they really are the
one person who knows this particular disease area so well,
and does really one or two people at that level
make a difference, Especially in a sector where US is
already a leader, You're not really bringing in people to
(12:26):
compete with the US talent. So that's something that I
think is important to remember. Doctors, of course, you know
the country that doesn't like Europe, many countries in Europe
on producing enough doctors. UK especially, you need to allow.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
That stay with us.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Coarclay, and Android
Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever
you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
Let's go down to Mark German. He's our go to
tech gadget guy for more on Aura because we're just
talking about how Aura's the company that owns Aura that
how Wellness Ring is now an eleven billion dollar company
with its latest capital raise. Mark, this is a finish
company and it needed to raise more money, didn't it.
Speaker 9 (13:21):
Definitely they want to scale production, they want to scale
r Indeed, they want to move into new regions, they
want to get into new retail stores, they want to
add new software features. So they're looking to grow quickly.
This nearly eleven billion dollar valuation. This is a you know,
a pretty specific hardware company. They really make one thing,
(13:41):
and if you look at their market cap now after
that raise, you compare it to other companies that are
known for really one type of hardware product Peloton, Eye, Robot,
Sonos bos Aura is now worth more than all of
them combined, which is pretty crazy to think about. So
(14:02):
so far, this looks to be a success story. It's
not a very old company, but it's a company doing
effective things and they're clearly building a product that people like.
They've sold three million units in the last fourteen fifteen
months or so. They've sold five and a half million
rings to date. They're due to cross one billion in
revenue in twenty five, a billion and a half in
(14:24):
twenty six. They did five hundred million in twenty four
so they seem to be growing quite nicely.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
I don't know, not being into the ring fit ring
business myself.
Speaker 5 (14:35):
Fitring, I like that fit ring.
Speaker 8 (14:37):
I mean, this.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Seems like something that your friends in Cooper Tina could
come out with tomorrow and copycat. How do you think
about the competitive landscape.
Speaker 9 (14:45):
Yeah, the competitive landscape is interesting. There's a few smaller
players that are also doing smart rings. Samsung rolled out
what they call the Galaxy Ring last year, and for Samsung,
who's actually been a dud, the functionality is just not
on par with Aura. What Aura as is a very
strong brand, They have very strong functionality, and they have
(15:05):
that big first mover advantage. But you're right, if Apple
comes out with the ring, They're gonna eat Aura's lunch.
You know. Aura's perspective is that they have this gigantic
and tried and true in legal proceedings patent portfolio, and
so they feel that if Apple were to come out
(15:26):
with a ring, or another company were to really hit
the nail on the head with a ring, that they
would be able to defend their patents. And they've shown
to be able to do that. They have some cases
in front of the International Trade Commission and other organizations
right now for some of the other competitors. So we'll
see what happens. I don't anticipate Apple coming out with
(15:46):
a ring anytime soon. I will say that this ten
billion dollar valuation is a little bit of a double
edged sword. On one hand, that's amazing for the company.
On the other hand, it puts them in territory where
they're probably not going to be acquired or bought in,
which would spur another company like Apple if they wanted
to ring develop one versus by them. And definitely they're
(16:08):
going to have to make a decision in the next
couple of years whether they're going to go public via
an IPO spat or if they're going to stay private.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Stay with us.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
weekdays at ten am easterne on Apple, Cocklay and Android
Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever
you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
Let's go back to a story that we were talking
about earlier, which is the CEO change over at T Mobile.
We just spoke earlier with the outgoing CEO and the
incoming CEO with our Bloomberg Television colleagues Caroline Hyde and
Ed Ludlow, and so now we want to bring in
our Bloomberg Intelligence expert, John Butler, the senior telecom analyst
for more on this side. John, was this a surprise?
Speaker 4 (16:58):
This changeover all? This was incredibly well broadcast. Shriney has
been hitting the conference circuit, so at this time of year,
all the major investment banks hold these conferences, and he's
been in almost everyone sort of out there telling the
T Mobiles story. And in my mind it answers one
(17:19):
of two questions. Right with any incoming CEO, You're like,
can they manage the company effectively? And can they manage
the stock effectively? Can they get that narrative out? It's
been a good story and he is really good at that.
So he's answered the second question and I think in
some ways he's answered the first as well.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Talk to us about the wireless business these days. It's
just a brutally competitive business. Just give us the lay
of the land there between AT and T, Verizon, T Mobile,
and anybody else who might be out there.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
I mean, the big three are still dominant. Paul and
T Mobile has executed beautifully over the past few years.
You know, they've done a very good of sort of
securing the lead in terms of subscriber growth by you know,
marketing on this hip counterculture brand image. They continue to be,
(18:14):
I think, having an outsized impact on consumers. When you
think a wireless it really is a consumer retail business.
They all have thousands of stores, they advertise on the
Super Bowl, they have giveaways, and I think T Mobile
more than most really does that well. And I think
the Big three, because of their scale set, it sort
(18:35):
of sets this sort of wide mode for any newcomers
that want to come in. So Mobile as number two
in the industry, I think is going to remain firmly
in that place, if not move into the number one
position over the next several years. Number one Zon Number
one is Verizon still, so I'm a Verizon person.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
I am too, But I just went to Italy and
how did what did you do for your phone needs?
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Fine, it's just I have a plan that just ports
over to an international.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
Okay, because as do uh huh.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
All of my offspring that's the only thing that I
still pay for.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
Yes, no one, no one wants to give that up.
Why pay for your own clone service when dad will
pay for it. I switched over to T Mobile because
of the giveaways, yes, because of the free iPhone last cycle,
and also because you get free data and free international
texting when you're overseas up to five gigabytes, so that
means I never have to buy an international data pison shopping.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
That is the single biggest hook I hear. So when
people come to me and they're like, I'm a T
mobile subscriber. They have all these giveaways and they have
international call.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
That makes a big difference because when I was on
AT and T, I was paying ten dollars a day
and that adds.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Up really quickly, does it really?
Speaker 8 (19:46):
You know?
Speaker 5 (19:46):
And then only one person in the family can get
it because you know, not everyone's going to.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Get it right, and they have four offspring plus an
next wife, you're still paying for it.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Well, there you go.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Charlie Pellett is on the t MO, but he he
always tries to sell me.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
To Charlie also knows the great deal. Well that's the
secret here at Bloomberg.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Charlie's traveling the strange parts of the world where he
probably needs that kind of stuff. So what's the future
of wireless in this country? Is it just our poop
growth average revenue per user? And is that kind of
the story for that is So.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
That is a great question, that is what's driving growth
now for a telco you's sort of run out of
room for adding new subs and so you need to
drive that up, that average revenue per user, and they're
doing it with the giveaways. We were just talking about
They actually charge modestly for those. In some cases they're
(20:34):
selling you phone insurance. T Mobile is now pushing into
the advertising business, but the real avenue of growth to
watch for them going forward is broadband. They are making
more and more inroads into that market and T Mobile
It's what I'm watching with the new CEO here to
see what he does in fiber broadband, because if T
(20:55):
Mobile has had any sort of a misfire over the
past decade, it's not going into fiber broadband in a
bigger way in the way that AT and TM Verizon
both have through sizeable and aggressive acquisitions. So it'll be
interesting to see what he does there. My call is
he's going to start building quickly and aggressively, would be
(21:17):
my guess.
Speaker 5 (21:18):
Another thing I just thought of that sold me on
TIM Mobile was they have a really simple bill, right,
they don't have the quoted amount and then tax on
top of that, everything's included, which makes any different.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
It's user friendly, it's very They're very good at consumer branding.
They really understand the consumer and what they want and
wireless and from their carrier so and Snoop Dogg and
Snoopy spokesperson.
Speaker 5 (21:40):
Yeah, I know, so when it comes to fierroptic, how
much more of that rollout is left? I mean, where
are they in that in that not transition, but in
that buildout. Is it like second inning or is it
eighth ining?
Speaker 4 (21:51):
So I'm going to call second inning. Here's the really
interesting fact I picked up recently. If you look at
Canada or even Europe parts of Europe, fiber broadband is
seventy percent of the total installed base of broadband subscribers.
And keep in mind, fiber is far and away the
best medium for broadband. It has truly symmetrical speed, so
(22:14):
upload and download great for zoom calls, and it's extremely
high capacity, so it's sort of future proof in that sense.
The US is only thirty percent penetrated with fibers, so
I think there's lots of room to run there. And
that's what AT and T has done so well. They
have really leaned hard into a fiber broadband strategy. Verizon
(22:37):
has and is continuing to lean in there, and T
Mobile is the laggard. So again, with the new CEO
coming in here, I'm looking to see if we'll see
any change in that strategy of theirs.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
This is the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
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ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the
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