May 23, 2025 • 23 mins
Watch Alix and Paul LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF.
Bloomberg Intelligence hosted by Alix Steel and John Tucker
Today’s Podcast Features are:
Ros Mathieson, Bloomberg News Director for Europe, the Middle East and Africa, discusses tariffs. President Donald Trump threatened a 50% tariff on the European Union starting June 1, citing stalled trade talk.
Anurag Rana, Bloomberg Intelligence Technology Analyst, discusses President Donald Trump threatening Apple with a tariff of at least 25% if the tech company does not manufacture their iPhones in the US.
Gautam Mukunda, Executive Fellow at Yale School of Management, joins for a discussion discusses the latest news at Harvard University. Harvard University said it is filing a lawsuit over the Trump administration’s move to block it from enrolling international students.
-Mario Marcel, Chile Finance Minister, discusses the NYC Chile Day event, a yearly conference that promotes Chile in international financial markets.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
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Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch
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Speaker 2 (00:23):
So the tariff trump Man definitely came into effect here.
Our President Trump rattled overall markets with a new tariff
threat on European goods at fifty percent. Now not liking
the pace of these tariff negotiations, Roz Mathis, and Bloomberg
News director in Europe for the Middle East and Africa
joins us. Now, Ros, how seriously is Europe.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Taking this.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Well?
Speaker 5 (00:44):
So far, the Commission is saying nothing, and that's because
they're probably waiting for this conversation that's supposed to be
happening today between their chief negotiator for the EU, morrow Sefkovic,
and Jemison Greer, his US counterpart, So they're laying very
low before that call. But what we can sense already
is is the idea that they see this as the
negotiating tactic. And indeed, the US Treasury Secretary of Scott
(01:05):
Bessett seemed to indicate that a short time ago when
he said he hopes it quotes light a fire under
the EU, and it seems to just be going into
that call a sense of frustration from the US at
the pace of the negotiations, rather than they are intending
at this minute to impose a fifty percent have and
so they're seeing it as part of the realm of
(01:25):
the negotiations and the tactics from the US At this point,
even though you did see obviously that market reaction, we
didn't see a massive mood, for example in the Euro
again pointing to the idea that in the market as well,
people are interpreting this as part of the custom cut
and thrust of being negotiating on trade. And so we
have to really see at this point what happens from
(01:46):
that phone call letter.
Speaker 6 (01:46):
Today you saw the social media post from the president.
Does Donald Trump have any legitimate grapes when it comes
to the EU?
Speaker 5 (01:56):
Well, he says he does, and I guess the frustration
on the US part is, but the EU is just
a much bigger economic entity to deal with and say,
getting a trade framework agreement with a country like the
UK where I am, and so these are much more
complicated arrangements with a collection of companies the EU versus
(02:17):
one individual country, and a lot more economic clout on
the EU side arguably as well. And the EU has
its own lines in the sand bet around agriculture, cars
and so on, and so these were always going to
be much more fraud negotiations.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
What did the EU propose that President Trump thought was
not good enough.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Well, they came back with a counter proposal to the
US proposal to the proves apps been a bunch of
counter proposals, but this is about addressing some of the
issues around environmental standards, labor standards, and you know, a framework.
They were the EU was setting out to move towards
zero tariffs on a lot of goods aside from things
that are seen as very essential, including around agriculture. And
(02:57):
obviously that proposal has gone to the US. The US
is not how with it. They're coming back for a
further conversation. But again the messages that Donald Trump obviously
wanted these conversations to be moving a lot faster than
the reality is the EU was probably going to move.
And so now they're leaning heavily in the idea of
you know, Donald Trump saying I would give you a number,
and here is the number. It's fifty percent if you
(03:18):
don't comply. Again, the question is is that the new
ten percent or is that on top of what we
already know it seems to be would be a flat
rate either way. But again, you know, the reality is
the US is negotiating at this point with a much
bigger economic entity in a much more complicated fashion. So
these conversations are always going to take time, and even
(03:38):
then you're just looking at getting a framework, not a
lot of the nuts and bolts of a full throated
trade agreement.
Speaker 6 (03:45):
Ross, thanks very much, we appreciate it. With Ross Mathis
and the Bloomberg News director for Year of the Middle
East and Africa.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Otto
with the blue Berg Business app. Listen on demand wherever
you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
All right, it's get to Ana rag Rana.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
He's Bloomberg Intelligence senior US technology analyst.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Thirty five hundred dollars for an iPhone question mark.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Yeah, I do not know if that's going to be
that high, but frankly speaking, it's going to take years
for something like dex to be built in the US.
There are no big factories here to assemble these things.
The one in India started back in twenty seventeen, and
you know, it took several years for them to even
come up for the first one. So not an easy
problem for Tim Cook to solve. Right now, I'm hoping
he's picking up the phone and you know, calling President
(04:36):
Trump to see how he can smooth the issues out.
Perhaps more spend on higher margin items, on chips and
other areas, but you know, putting together an iPhone in
the US is going to be, you know, one tough task.
Speaker 6 (04:48):
Is there a credible scenario for production in the United States?
Any credible scenario?
Speaker 4 (04:54):
No, there are credible scenarios. It depends on how much
cost you want to you know, incur If you want
to run on a very thing margin, yes you can
do it. The real way to do it is to
have robotics take care of it. But that's not I
mean we're not there and yet.
Speaker 6 (05:07):
So the whole point of this is to get workers'
jobs created in the US.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Yeah, But to think about it, you know, from an
assembly point of view. This is not for anybody's you know,
liking a high margin or a high profile job. Do
you're just assembling phones? I mean, I know what it
means from a from a you know, marketing point of view,
but you know, you're better off spending money on high
end semiconductor chips that are several hundred dollars worth in
(05:36):
a phone. You know, a few hundred dollars of labor,
you know, from one side to the other, does not
really add up to the benefit of you know, anybody,
either the US or Apple. You know, what's going to
happen is people are going to go gravitate more towards
Samsung phones because the cost differential is going to be
so wide. So it's it's not easy to go out
and do these you know, what I would call is
(05:58):
the lower end consumer electronic products compared to some of
the high end you know, data center stuff for things
that have much higher capics involved with them.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So if I'm taking a look at Apple stock, were
off the lows, but we're still down like two percent,
should an investor just completely ignore these headlines at this point?
Speaker 4 (06:15):
No, no, no. In fact, on the contrary, this is
no longer about US and China. This is concerning because
this is a director. You know, you could say direction
towards Apple and say, well, you are not doing enough.
Let me see what you're going to do now. So
don't go by that twenty five percent, because if Apple
doesn't go out and fix this problem, you know, this
rate could go up even higher. So it's it's it's
(06:37):
more so directed towards one company, which is very unusual
for you know, for us to see.
Speaker 6 (06:42):
Frankly, well, what has changed do we know in the
relationship between Donald Trump and Tim Cook? Because, as I
said before, they kind of got to pass the last
time around.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Yeah, I'm not privy to those discussions, Frankly, And you know,
one of the things I remember, we just heard that
he did complain in one of his speeches that Tim
Cook wasn't around with him when he was invesiting the
Middle East. So I do not know what's happened behind
the scenes, but definitely not the best time for Apple
in terms of their government relationships. So that's why I'm saying.
I'm hoping that they you know, pick up the phone,
(07:14):
figure out whatever the deal is, they make it, they
spend the extra money, and then take care of whatever
the big you know, lingering issues are.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
So now no one's been able to answer your question.
So that leads me to believe that you need to
go research this, Tucker.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Nobody knows what has changed between Tim Cook and President Trump.
Speaker 6 (07:30):
Again, I was feeling it for you.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
He's just going to rub salt in this wound. So
honorag just you know, for you to know. Paul's out today.
So John Tucker comes in and says, I'm going to
be you. Alex, You or Paul, you do all the
work and I just sit here and I am continually
offended by this.
Speaker 6 (07:48):
We started off on the wrong.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
We really did. See he's laughing. He knows that's not true. Honuraq,
I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
On Oak Granda, Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Technology Analyst.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelli Religion's podcast. Catch us
live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and
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Speaker 2 (08:12):
Alex Steel here alongside John Tucker. Paul Sweeny is off today.
This is Blomberg Intelligence Radio. We bring you all the
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The stunning headline I sound like Tom Keene, but the
(08:33):
stunning headline from yesterday that really truly was a jaw dropper.
All across the newsroom was Harvard University and its latest
conflict with President Trump. Harvard now suing the Trump administration
over the Trump administration's decision to block the school from
enrolling international students, and that affects twenty seven percent of
the student body. Got Tom at Mukonda is executive Fellow
(08:56):
at Yale School of Management. Put this into context of
what this could mean for a school like Harvard that
not only relies on the brain power of the twenty
seven percent of the student body, but also the money
of the twenty seven percent of that student body.
Speaker 7 (09:13):
So this is potentially very damaging for Harvard, which of
course relies not just on the money. These are money
and brain powers. So these are some of the best
students in the world. But there will be a Harvard
for a long time after this, universities are incredibly resilient Oxford.
If you go to Oxford and Cambridge, you will see
niches in the walls that are empty, and if you
look into the nit back of the niche, you see
(09:34):
shattered remnants of sculptures. Because Oliver Cromwell's soldiers stormed the
universities and shattered the images, universities survived lots of things.
The damage here is not to Harvard, it is to
the United States. Just back up for a second and
think about this. Imagine that the Chinese government decided to
attack an American asset that generated tens to hundreds of
(09:57):
billions of dollars in economic value every year. That was
the single most important institution in securing American leadership and science, technology,
and that also took in the next generation of global leaders,
exposed them to the best of the United States, and
indoctrinated them in American values, and then sent them home.
(10:19):
If the Chinese government decided to attack an asset of
that value, we would expect the United States government to
go to war to defend it. And instead it is
the United States government that is doing it to us,
to itself.
Speaker 6 (10:32):
And beyond the economic contribution of these students. There are
other components too. This is sort of like, I mean,
would you think that it's sort of like the United
States shooting itself on the foot?
Speaker 7 (10:46):
The United States shooting itself in the foot would be
kind compared to that. This is the United States shooting
itself in the stomach. Let's again, let's put this in perspective.
The just recently Nature identified the ten top research universities
in the world. So the ten universities of the world
that contribute the most to science technology.
Speaker 6 (11:04):
Only two of those ten.
Speaker 7 (11:06):
Were American, the other eight were Chinese. Eighth was matt
mit and first was Harvard. There is no way to
be globally competitive without leadership and science technology. And the
Trump administration is attacking the institution of the United States
that is most successful at doing that.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
So how does this then play out?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Clearly, this will be tied up in the courts forever,
and there was a stay from a California judge overnight.
But if I'm an international student, why would I even
take the risk at this point?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Like the brain drain can start.
Speaker 7 (11:35):
Now, Yeah, I mean, so this is clearly lawless by
the administration.
Speaker 6 (11:40):
It is clearly pretextual.
Speaker 7 (11:41):
So in Christy Gnomes's letter to the Harvard there is
not a claim of any laws being violated. Is simply
a bunch of demands. And I note that in Secretary
Devoce's letter to Harvard explaining why they were taking earlier
actions anti Semitism, which is supposedly the reason all of
this was done, was not even mentioned.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
Right. This is clear pretextual.
Speaker 7 (12:00):
This is not to say that Harvard hasn't made mistakes,
of course it has. It's not to say that Harvard
hasn't handled issues badly.
Speaker 6 (12:06):
Of course it has.
Speaker 7 (12:07):
But none of this is about that, right, And so
from the perspective of not just students but also top
tier researchers right who are dependent heavily on federal funding,
they're going to be thinking about leading. And here's the
irony of all ironies. Hong Kong Technology has already announced
that they will accept students and researchers who are refugees
(12:28):
from Harvard on favorable terms. The Trump administration is taking
the best minds in the world and trying to make
them flee to China.
Speaker 6 (12:38):
Is there time for them to even transfer, as Christy
Gnome or whomever in the administration said they should do.
Speaker 7 (12:46):
You know, I think it depends on the person. It
depends on the student. But there are people who are
devastated right now. I'm getting emails from former students who
are in tears, who don't know what's going to happen
to them. And surely the cruelty is part of the point.
I mean, let's be clear. This is not christ you
Knowoam said it's herself. This is not about Harvard. This
is about an attempt by the administration to break American
(13:07):
higher education to its will.
Speaker 6 (13:09):
Right.
Speaker 7 (13:09):
It is trying to seize control of American ed universities
and get them become organs of indoctrination. And that's not
me claiming it. That is literally what Christy Nome has
stated in her statements. Right, So, yeah, this is going
to go a lot beyond Harvard, and you know, you
may leave Harvard and find out that it chases you
to wherever you go next too.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Well, how does this affect this comes from our producer
in the control room. How does this affect those that
are graduating next week? I mean, if you're an overseas student, like,
do you wind up getting that degree?
Speaker 7 (13:39):
I mean, my guess is that Harvard will be able
to get a stay in place for the next week.
But no one knows that the cruelty and the chaos
this is imposing is not accidental. It is the point
they are trying to inflict as much harm as on everybody,
because it is an object lesson for everyone else. Right,
Harvard has more wealth, more power, and more institutionals than
(14:00):
almost any other sort of organization in America. I mean,
this side of Bloomberg itself. Harvard may have more independence
from the federal government than anyone else. If they can
break Harvard, then they are sending a sign that they
can do it to anybody. And that is the message
that this is trying to convey.
Speaker 6 (14:16):
Not to mention the network of alum pretty powerful alum.
Where do they come in on this and.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
How can they?
Speaker 7 (14:24):
Well, so the alums are sort of consistently, not all
of them to a huge amount, rallying. I'll tell you
something that I said that I've heard also back from
many other people. You know, I first got tied to
Harvard in nineteen ninety seven when I was admitted as
an undergraduate. And you know, I was there as a student.
I was there as a faculty member. I'm at Yale now,
so you know, some mixed feelings about this because of that.
(14:46):
But I've often been proud of being associated with Harvard
because it said something about, you know, about me that
they admitted to me or whatever. But I've often been
skeptical about Harvard because it seemed focused on you know,
maybe money or ambition over ideals. They are always thing
is to criticize there. This is the first time in
my life that I have been proud of Harvard, right.
(15:07):
I have been proud of the fact that the university
is clearly taking a step out and saying we are
the front line of defensive American democracy and we will
hold the line. And I cannot tell you how many
lums have said to me they have never felt this
good about Harvard as they have at this moment.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
All right, well, we really appreciate that. Thank you for
joining us.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Got Tam Muconda, executive fellow at Yale School of Management,
joining us in the latest a news from Harvard and
the Trump administration and where we go next.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live
weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple Coarclay and Android
auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever
you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
We have a special guest for you in studio. Really
happy to get this perspective. Mario marcel Is a chile
finance minister. You joined this in studio. There is a
Chile Day event a year conference that promotes Chile in
the international finance market.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
What is your pitch to investors right now?
Speaker 8 (16:08):
Well, this meeting happens has been happening every year for
I think that like fifteen years so far. Every year
we have a special focus. This year is basically that
the Chilean economy has fully rebalanced from the disquilibria that
was left after COVID nineteen, that we have our house
(16:33):
in order. The economy grew to zero point six percent
last year and we are prepared to continue growing. But
of course we are facing the risks that everyone does
these days. But the Chile appears to be better prepared
on a number of dimensions to face the juncture.
Speaker 6 (16:52):
All right, Now, be honest with this next question. You
just heard Kevin Whitelaw talking about does the rest of
the world think the United States is nuts?
Speaker 8 (17:00):
A question it is, can I yes, Fifth Amendment?
Speaker 6 (17:07):
Okay, all right, all right, since you're going to take
the fifth on that. And by the way, I have
to say, just parenthetically, on my bucket list is a
visit to Chile.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Okay, well, you're talking to the right person. It looks
like not me.
Speaker 6 (17:18):
What is the driest desert in the world, I believe, right, yeah.
Speaker 8 (17:21):
Sure, And but do I know that the desert is
a home to a.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
Very large telescope appropriately a name, among other things. So
for science geeks, that's the place to go.
Speaker 8 (17:32):
Teles coves, wind power, mining, cover mining, lithium mining, all
of that.
Speaker 6 (17:40):
CELLI is one of the largest copper producers in the world,
if not the biggest.
Speaker 8 (17:45):
Number one.
Speaker 6 (17:46):
Can I talk to you about the dollar, the weakness
in the dollar and em currencies like the peso have
been on a tier. Your thoughts on the dollar weakness,
and then whether or not you have to galeback purchases
of US data as a result of that.
Speaker 8 (18:04):
Yes, so, well, the way we see it is that
you know, in the balance between the dollar as a
refuge in terms of uncertainty and the issues that concentrate
on risk coming from the US. The second is waiting
more today, and that is what has been weakening the
US dollar.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
So we mentioned the commodities that Chile produces, et cetera.
Just how is that going? And I say that globally,
but what I mean is that the tear of negativity
globally has disrupted a lot of investment decisions, disrupted a
lot of long term contracts or demand.
Speaker 8 (18:42):
What have you noticed, Well, we have a very strong
pipeline of investment producing mining, particularly in copper. Those have
multiplied by five for the next four years in the
course of a little more than a year. Basically because
the long term price of copper is expected to remain
(19:03):
pretty solid. Uh, and there will still be a lot
of world demand for copper coming from electron mobility, from
technological changes, from construction in some countries. So and actually
the price of copper has remained pretty strong in the
(19:24):
last in the last few months, even in the face of.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
The tariffs that just where you send that copper from
Chile to have that changed at all, Well.
Speaker 8 (19:34):
Our copper production, in terms of metal as kettles, goes
mostly to the US. We are the main supplier of
copper kettles to the US market and therefore a very
important supplier of US manufacturing, and the copper concentrate is
basically demanded from China, given that China has the largest
(19:58):
smelting capacity in the world.
Speaker 6 (20:00):
The quality of the ore have you been able to
maintain that?
Speaker 8 (20:05):
Well? A large part of investments are aimed at at
the compensating for the declining quality of ore as minds
get older. So that means that in Chile we have
we're planning to have a lot of investment. Part of
that we will compensate over that and other part will
(20:27):
increase the volume of production. We expect to grow a
production by one million tons from twenty to twenty thirty.
Speaker 6 (20:37):
And the range of possibilities for the election with the
elections at the end of the year. At the end
of the year, what does it mean for investors? Because
there are the current president your boss her term is up.
Speaker 8 (20:49):
Correct, Yes, we don't have a re election in Chile.
Therefore there will be a new president.
Speaker 6 (20:57):
But the range of possibilities what the that mean for investors?
Speaker 8 (21:02):
Well, so far it looks like the investors are very
positive about the sort of the structural strength of the country.
They don't see any major policy changes coming up in
their areas like in this case copper or energy or
other key sectors in the Chilean economy. So in the
(21:23):
last few days we have had announcements of pretty large projects.
Total announced sixteen billion project on green hydrogen and ammonia
in the far South. We had Amazon Web Services announcing
four and a half billion dollars in data centers. The
(21:43):
digital industry infrastructure is growing pretty much in Chile as well.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
How does that impact domestic inflation when you have a
lot of industry then coming down.
Speaker 8 (21:53):
Well, demand is pretty much in line to the economy
growing more two and a half percent. Inflation is pretty
much under control. We have some upward pressure coming from
the normalization of electricity tariffs that were frozen during the
COVID nineteen crisis, but we expect inflation to go back
(22:18):
to the central Bank target of three percent by the
beginning of twenty twenty six.
Speaker 6 (22:23):
Are you going to stick around in your job through
the end of the year or like, what's your.
Speaker 8 (22:29):
Well, I will stay there as long as President needs me.
But I mean, we have so many things to do.
We have, you know, further physical consolidation to implement. We
have announced just an additional package of incentives for new
(22:49):
investments in the country, and of course dealing with the
negotiations with the US on taistent trade.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
All right, Maria, thanks lot, We really appreciate it. Thank
you so much for joining us. Maria marcel a chile
finance minister.
Speaker 6 (23:02):
And on the way home, I will be stopping to
get some Chilean wine because it's very good.
Speaker 8 (23:07):
It is.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
He agrees a recommendation.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Okay, if on a is you going to give you recommendation?
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Yes, we'll work off air. We'll get some recommendations for
some good Chilean wine. That's a great idea.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
John Tucker the best amazing price to quality ratio.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
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Speaker 2 (00:23):
So the tariff trump Man definitely came into effect here.
Our President Trump rattled overall markets with a new tariff
threat on European goods at fifty percent. Now not liking
the pace of these tariff negotiations, Roz Mathis, and Bloomberg
News director in Europe for the Middle East and Africa
joins us. Now, Ros, how seriously is Europe.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Taking this.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Well?
Speaker 5 (00:44):
So far, the Commission is saying nothing, and that's because
they're probably waiting for this conversation that's supposed to be
happening today between their chief negotiator for the EU, morrow Sefkovic,
and Jemison Greer, his US counterpart, So they're laying very
low before that call. But what we can sense already
is is the idea that they see this as the
negotiating tactic. And indeed, the US Treasury Secretary of Scott
(01:05):
Bessett seemed to indicate that a short time ago when
he said he hopes it quotes light a fire under
the EU, and it seems to just be going into
that call a sense of frustration from the US at
the pace of the negotiations, rather than they are intending
at this minute to impose a fifty percent have and
so they're seeing it as part of the realm of
(01:25):
the negotiations and the tactics from the US At this point,
even though you did see obviously that market reaction, we
didn't see a massive mood, for example in the Euro
again pointing to the idea that in the market as well,
people are interpreting this as part of the custom cut
and thrust of being negotiating on trade. And so we
have to really see at this point what happens from
(01:46):
that phone call letter.
Speaker 6 (01:46):
Today you saw the social media post from the president.
Does Donald Trump have any legitimate grapes when it comes
to the EU?
Speaker 5 (01:56):
Well, he says he does, and I guess the frustration
on the US part is, but the EU is just
a much bigger economic entity to deal with and say,
getting a trade framework agreement with a country like the
UK where I am, and so these are much more
complicated arrangements with a collection of companies the EU versus
(02:17):
one individual country, and a lot more economic clout on
the EU side arguably as well. And the EU has
its own lines in the sand bet around agriculture, cars
and so on, and so these were always going to
be much more fraud negotiations.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
What did the EU propose that President Trump thought was
not good enough.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Well, they came back with a counter proposal to the
US proposal to the proves apps been a bunch of
counter proposals, but this is about addressing some of the
issues around environmental standards, labor standards, and you know, a framework.
They were the EU was setting out to move towards
zero tariffs on a lot of goods aside from things
that are seen as very essential, including around agriculture. And
(02:57):
obviously that proposal has gone to the US. The US
is not how with it. They're coming back for a
further conversation. But again the messages that Donald Trump obviously
wanted these conversations to be moving a lot faster than
the reality is the EU was probably going to move.
And so now they're leaning heavily in the idea of
you know, Donald Trump saying I would give you a number,
and here is the number. It's fifty percent if you
(03:18):
don't comply. Again, the question is is that the new
ten percent or is that on top of what we
already know it seems to be would be a flat
rate either way. But again, you know, the reality is
the US is negotiating at this point with a much
bigger economic entity in a much more complicated fashion. So
these conversations are always going to take time, and even
(03:38):
then you're just looking at getting a framework, not a
lot of the nuts and bolts of a full throated
trade agreement.
Speaker 6 (03:45):
Ross, thanks very much, we appreciate it. With Ross Mathis
and the Bloomberg News director for Year of the Middle
East and Africa.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Otto
with the blue Berg Business app. Listen on demand wherever
you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
All right, it's get to Ana rag Rana.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
He's Bloomberg Intelligence senior US technology analyst.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Thirty five hundred dollars for an iPhone question mark.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Yeah, I do not know if that's going to be
that high, but frankly speaking, it's going to take years
for something like dex to be built in the US.
There are no big factories here to assemble these things.
The one in India started back in twenty seventeen, and
you know, it took several years for them to even
come up for the first one. So not an easy
problem for Tim Cook to solve. Right now, I'm hoping
he's picking up the phone and you know, calling President
(04:36):
Trump to see how he can smooth the issues out.
Perhaps more spend on higher margin items, on chips and
other areas, but you know, putting together an iPhone in
the US is going to be, you know, one tough task.
Speaker 6 (04:48):
Is there a credible scenario for production in the United States?
Any credible scenario?
Speaker 4 (04:54):
No, there are credible scenarios. It depends on how much
cost you want to you know, incur If you want
to run on a very thing margin, yes you can
do it. The real way to do it is to
have robotics take care of it. But that's not I
mean we're not there and yet.
Speaker 6 (05:07):
So the whole point of this is to get workers'
jobs created in the US.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Yeah, But to think about it, you know, from an
assembly point of view. This is not for anybody's you know,
liking a high margin or a high profile job. Do
you're just assembling phones? I mean, I know what it
means from a from a you know, marketing point of view,
but you know, you're better off spending money on high
end semiconductor chips that are several hundred dollars worth in
(05:36):
a phone. You know, a few hundred dollars of labor,
you know, from one side to the other, does not
really add up to the benefit of you know, anybody,
either the US or Apple. You know, what's going to
happen is people are going to go gravitate more towards
Samsung phones because the cost differential is going to be
so wide. So it's it's not easy to go out
and do these you know, what I would call is
(05:58):
the lower end consumer electronic products compared to some of
the high end you know, data center stuff for things
that have much higher capics involved with them.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So if I'm taking a look at Apple stock, were
off the lows, but we're still down like two percent,
should an investor just completely ignore these headlines at this point?
Speaker 4 (06:15):
No, no, no. In fact, on the contrary, this is
no longer about US and China. This is concerning because
this is a director. You know, you could say direction
towards Apple and say, well, you are not doing enough.
Let me see what you're going to do now. So
don't go by that twenty five percent, because if Apple
doesn't go out and fix this problem, you know, this
rate could go up even higher. So it's it's it's
(06:37):
more so directed towards one company, which is very unusual
for you know, for us to see.
Speaker 6 (06:42):
Frankly, well, what has changed do we know in the
relationship between Donald Trump and Tim Cook? Because, as I
said before, they kind of got to pass the last
time around.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Yeah, I'm not privy to those discussions, Frankly, And you know,
one of the things I remember, we just heard that
he did complain in one of his speeches that Tim
Cook wasn't around with him when he was invesiting the
Middle East. So I do not know what's happened behind
the scenes, but definitely not the best time for Apple
in terms of their government relationships. So that's why I'm saying.
I'm hoping that they you know, pick up the phone,
(07:14):
figure out whatever the deal is, they make it, they
spend the extra money, and then take care of whatever
the big you know, lingering issues are.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
So now no one's been able to answer your question.
So that leads me to believe that you need to
go research this, Tucker.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Nobody knows what has changed between Tim Cook and President Trump.
Speaker 6 (07:30):
Again, I was feeling it for you.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
He's just going to rub salt in this wound. So
honorag just you know, for you to know. Paul's out today.
So John Tucker comes in and says, I'm going to
be you. Alex, You or Paul, you do all the
work and I just sit here and I am continually
offended by this.
Speaker 6 (07:48):
We started off on the wrong.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
We really did. See he's laughing. He knows that's not true. Honuraq,
I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
On Oak Granda, Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Technology Analyst.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelli Religion's podcast. Catch us
live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and
Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand
wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Alex Steel here alongside John Tucker. Paul Sweeny is off today.
This is Blomberg Intelligence Radio. We bring you all the
top news and business, economics and finance. We are broadcasting
to you live from our interactive brook Or studio right
here in midtom Manhattans. Check us out on Roku, on
our smart TV originals content as well as YouTube dot com.
The stunning headline I sound like Tom Keene, but the
(08:33):
stunning headline from yesterday that really truly was a jaw dropper.
All across the newsroom was Harvard University and its latest
conflict with President Trump. Harvard now suing the Trump administration
over the Trump administration's decision to block the school from
enrolling international students, and that affects twenty seven percent of
the student body. Got Tom at Mukonda is executive Fellow
(08:56):
at Yale School of Management. Put this into context of
what this could mean for a school like Harvard that
not only relies on the brain power of the twenty
seven percent of the student body, but also the money
of the twenty seven percent of that student body.
Speaker 7 (09:13):
So this is potentially very damaging for Harvard, which of
course relies not just on the money. These are money
and brain powers. So these are some of the best
students in the world. But there will be a Harvard
for a long time after this, universities are incredibly resilient Oxford.
If you go to Oxford and Cambridge, you will see
niches in the walls that are empty, and if you
look into the nit back of the niche, you see
(09:34):
shattered remnants of sculptures. Because Oliver Cromwell's soldiers stormed the
universities and shattered the images, universities survived lots of things.
The damage here is not to Harvard, it is to
the United States. Just back up for a second and
think about this. Imagine that the Chinese government decided to
attack an American asset that generated tens to hundreds of
(09:57):
billions of dollars in economic value every year. That was
the single most important institution in securing American leadership and science, technology,
and that also took in the next generation of global leaders,
exposed them to the best of the United States, and
indoctrinated them in American values, and then sent them home.
(10:19):
If the Chinese government decided to attack an asset of
that value, we would expect the United States government to
go to war to defend it. And instead it is
the United States government that is doing it to us,
to itself.
Speaker 6 (10:32):
And beyond the economic contribution of these students. There are
other components too. This is sort of like, I mean,
would you think that it's sort of like the United
States shooting itself on the foot?
Speaker 7 (10:46):
The United States shooting itself in the foot would be
kind compared to that. This is the United States shooting
itself in the stomach. Let's again, let's put this in perspective.
The just recently Nature identified the ten top research universities
in the world. So the ten universities of the world
that contribute the most to science technology.
Speaker 6 (11:04):
Only two of those ten.
Speaker 7 (11:06):
Were American, the other eight were Chinese. Eighth was matt
mit and first was Harvard. There is no way to
be globally competitive without leadership and science technology. And the
Trump administration is attacking the institution of the United States
that is most successful at doing that.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
So how does this then play out?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Clearly, this will be tied up in the courts forever,
and there was a stay from a California judge overnight.
But if I'm an international student, why would I even
take the risk at this point?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Like the brain drain can start.
Speaker 7 (11:35):
Now, Yeah, I mean, so this is clearly lawless by
the administration.
Speaker 6 (11:40):
It is clearly pretextual.
Speaker 7 (11:41):
So in Christy Gnomes's letter to the Harvard there is
not a claim of any laws being violated. Is simply
a bunch of demands. And I note that in Secretary
Devoce's letter to Harvard explaining why they were taking earlier
actions anti Semitism, which is supposedly the reason all of
this was done, was not even mentioned.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
Right. This is clear pretextual.
Speaker 7 (12:00):
This is not to say that Harvard hasn't made mistakes,
of course it has. It's not to say that Harvard
hasn't handled issues badly.
Speaker 6 (12:06):
Of course it has.
Speaker 7 (12:07):
But none of this is about that, right, And so
from the perspective of not just students but also top
tier researchers right who are dependent heavily on federal funding,
they're going to be thinking about leading. And here's the
irony of all ironies. Hong Kong Technology has already announced
that they will accept students and researchers who are refugees
(12:28):
from Harvard on favorable terms. The Trump administration is taking
the best minds in the world and trying to make
them flee to China.
Speaker 6 (12:38):
Is there time for them to even transfer, as Christy
Gnome or whomever in the administration said they should do.
Speaker 7 (12:46):
You know, I think it depends on the person. It
depends on the student. But there are people who are
devastated right now. I'm getting emails from former students who
are in tears, who don't know what's going to happen
to them. And surely the cruelty is part of the point.
I mean, let's be clear. This is not christ you
Knowoam said it's herself. This is not about Harvard. This
is about an attempt by the administration to break American
(13:07):
higher education to its will.
Speaker 6 (13:09):
Right.
Speaker 7 (13:09):
It is trying to seize control of American ed universities
and get them become organs of indoctrination. And that's not
me claiming it. That is literally what Christy Nome has
stated in her statements. Right, So, yeah, this is going
to go a lot beyond Harvard, and you know, you
may leave Harvard and find out that it chases you
to wherever you go next too.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Well, how does this affect this comes from our producer
in the control room. How does this affect those that
are graduating next week? I mean, if you're an overseas student, like,
do you wind up getting that degree?
Speaker 7 (13:39):
I mean, my guess is that Harvard will be able
to get a stay in place for the next week.
But no one knows that the cruelty and the chaos
this is imposing is not accidental. It is the point
they are trying to inflict as much harm as on everybody,
because it is an object lesson for everyone else. Right,
Harvard has more wealth, more power, and more institutionals than
(14:00):
almost any other sort of organization in America. I mean,
this side of Bloomberg itself. Harvard may have more independence
from the federal government than anyone else. If they can
break Harvard, then they are sending a sign that they
can do it to anybody. And that is the message
that this is trying to convey.
Speaker 6 (14:16):
Not to mention the network of alum pretty powerful alum.
Where do they come in on this and.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
How can they?
Speaker 7 (14:24):
Well, so the alums are sort of consistently, not all
of them to a huge amount, rallying. I'll tell you
something that I said that I've heard also back from
many other people. You know, I first got tied to
Harvard in nineteen ninety seven when I was admitted as
an undergraduate. And you know, I was there as a student.
I was there as a faculty member. I'm at Yale now,
so you know, some mixed feelings about this because of that.
(14:46):
But I've often been proud of being associated with Harvard
because it said something about, you know, about me that
they admitted to me or whatever. But I've often been
skeptical about Harvard because it seemed focused on you know,
maybe money or ambition over ideals. They are always thing
is to criticize there. This is the first time in
my life that I have been proud of Harvard, right.
(15:07):
I have been proud of the fact that the university
is clearly taking a step out and saying we are
the front line of defensive American democracy and we will
hold the line. And I cannot tell you how many
lums have said to me they have never felt this
good about Harvard as they have at this moment.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
All right, well, we really appreciate that. Thank you for
joining us.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Got Tam Muconda, executive fellow at Yale School of Management,
joining us in the latest a news from Harvard and
the Trump administration and where we go next.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live
weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple Coarclay and Android
auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever
you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
We have a special guest for you in studio. Really
happy to get this perspective. Mario marcel Is a chile
finance minister. You joined this in studio. There is a
Chile Day event a year conference that promotes Chile in
the international finance market.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
What is your pitch to investors right now?
Speaker 8 (16:08):
Well, this meeting happens has been happening every year for
I think that like fifteen years so far. Every year
we have a special focus. This year is basically that
the Chilean economy has fully rebalanced from the disquilibria that
was left after COVID nineteen, that we have our house
(16:33):
in order. The economy grew to zero point six percent
last year and we are prepared to continue growing. But
of course we are facing the risks that everyone does
these days. But the Chile appears to be better prepared
on a number of dimensions to face the juncture.
Speaker 6 (16:52):
All right, Now, be honest with this next question. You
just heard Kevin Whitelaw talking about does the rest of
the world think the United States is nuts?
Speaker 8 (17:00):
A question it is, can I yes, Fifth Amendment?
Speaker 6 (17:07):
Okay, all right, all right, since you're going to take
the fifth on that. And by the way, I have
to say, just parenthetically, on my bucket list is a
visit to Chile.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Okay, well, you're talking to the right person. It looks
like not me.
Speaker 6 (17:18):
What is the driest desert in the world, I believe, right, yeah.
Speaker 8 (17:21):
Sure, And but do I know that the desert is
a home to a.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
Very large telescope appropriately a name, among other things. So
for science geeks, that's the place to go.
Speaker 8 (17:32):
Teles coves, wind power, mining, cover mining, lithium mining, all
of that.
Speaker 6 (17:40):
CELLI is one of the largest copper producers in the world,
if not the biggest.
Speaker 8 (17:45):
Number one.
Speaker 6 (17:46):
Can I talk to you about the dollar, the weakness
in the dollar and em currencies like the peso have
been on a tier. Your thoughts on the dollar weakness,
and then whether or not you have to galeback purchases
of US data as a result of that.
Speaker 8 (18:04):
Yes, so, well, the way we see it is that
you know, in the balance between the dollar as a
refuge in terms of uncertainty and the issues that concentrate
on risk coming from the US. The second is waiting
more today, and that is what has been weakening the
US dollar.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
So we mentioned the commodities that Chile produces, et cetera.
Just how is that going? And I say that globally,
but what I mean is that the tear of negativity
globally has disrupted a lot of investment decisions, disrupted a
lot of long term contracts or demand.
Speaker 8 (18:42):
What have you noticed, Well, we have a very strong
pipeline of investment producing mining, particularly in copper. Those have
multiplied by five for the next four years in the
course of a little more than a year. Basically because
the long term price of copper is expected to remain
(19:03):
pretty solid. Uh, and there will still be a lot
of world demand for copper coming from electron mobility, from
technological changes, from construction in some countries. So and actually
the price of copper has remained pretty strong in the
(19:24):
last in the last few months, even in the face of.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
The tariffs that just where you send that copper from
Chile to have that changed at all, Well.
Speaker 8 (19:34):
Our copper production, in terms of metal as kettles, goes
mostly to the US. We are the main supplier of
copper kettles to the US market and therefore a very
important supplier of US manufacturing, and the copper concentrate is
basically demanded from China, given that China has the largest
(19:58):
smelting capacity in the world.
Speaker 6 (20:00):
The quality of the ore have you been able to
maintain that?
Speaker 8 (20:05):
Well? A large part of investments are aimed at at
the compensating for the declining quality of ore as minds
get older. So that means that in Chile we have
we're planning to have a lot of investment. Part of
that we will compensate over that and other part will
(20:27):
increase the volume of production. We expect to grow a
production by one million tons from twenty to twenty thirty.
Speaker 6 (20:37):
And the range of possibilities for the election with the
elections at the end of the year. At the end
of the year, what does it mean for investors? Because
there are the current president your boss her term is up.
Speaker 8 (20:49):
Correct, Yes, we don't have a re election in Chile.
Therefore there will be a new president.
Speaker 6 (20:57):
But the range of possibilities what the that mean for investors?
Speaker 8 (21:02):
Well, so far it looks like the investors are very
positive about the sort of the structural strength of the country.
They don't see any major policy changes coming up in
their areas like in this case copper or energy or
other key sectors in the Chilean economy. So in the
(21:23):
last few days we have had announcements of pretty large projects.
Total announced sixteen billion project on green hydrogen and ammonia
in the far South. We had Amazon Web Services announcing
four and a half billion dollars in data centers. The
(21:43):
digital industry infrastructure is growing pretty much in Chile as well.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
How does that impact domestic inflation when you have a
lot of industry then coming down.
Speaker 8 (21:53):
Well, demand is pretty much in line to the economy
growing more two and a half percent. Inflation is pretty
much under control. We have some upward pressure coming from
the normalization of electricity tariffs that were frozen during the
COVID nineteen crisis, but we expect inflation to go back
(22:18):
to the central Bank target of three percent by the
beginning of twenty twenty six.
Speaker 6 (22:23):
Are you going to stick around in your job through
the end of the year or like, what's your.
Speaker 8 (22:29):
Well, I will stay there as long as President needs me.
But I mean, we have so many things to do.
We have, you know, further physical consolidation to implement. We
have announced just an additional package of incentives for new
(22:49):
investments in the country, and of course dealing with the
negotiations with the US on taistent trade.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
All right, Maria, thanks lot, We really appreciate it. Thank
you so much for joining us. Maria marcel a chile
finance minister.
Speaker 6 (23:02):
And on the way home, I will be stopping to
get some Chilean wine because it's very good.
Speaker 8 (23:07):
It is.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
He agrees a recommendation.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Okay, if on a is you going to give you recommendation?
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Yes, we'll work off air. We'll get some recommendations for
some good Chilean wine. That's a great idea.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
John Tucker the best amazing price to quality ratio.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
This is the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
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weekday ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot com,
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