November 11, 2025 • 41 mins
Bloomberg’s Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow discuss the drop in Nvidia shares as SoftBank sells its entire stake in the chipmaker to help bankroll its other AI investments. Plus, CoreWeave CEO Micheal Intrator talks about the company's earnings, data center delay, and efforts to diversify its supply chain. And, Paramount Skydance reports its first earnings since David Ellison's takeover.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is a
live from Coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New
York and Eva low in sentrancs.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Go, This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. Soft Bank sells
its entire stake in Nvidia for close to six billion dollars.
This to help bankroll it's other AI investments.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
As we sit down with core Wee've CEO Michael and
Trader to talk about the company's earnings and that data
center delay and.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
More earnings with paramount skide answer as the company reports
its first results since David Ellison's takeover.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Much to digest when it comes to the fundamentals of
businesses today, and but overall we've got a bit of
risk aversion here. We've got some of the biggest players
in technology. On the downside, you're going to drill into
the individual movers. But there is a question of AI infrastructure.
There's a question of pressure or some of these market
capitalizations of eight ten percent after yesterday's bounce back on
hopes that the government shutdown might.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Be reaching some sort of end.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
But then take us to the individual movers.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, cor Weave is where we start stock down about
thirteen percent, on track for its biggest drop since mid August.
The stock trading in its lowest level since early September.
In a few minutes time, we're going to speak to
the CEO, Michael and traitor.
Speaker 5 (01:21):
The company cut its revenue.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Outlook for fiscal twenty five or trimmed it really because
of a delay to a specific project. The other thing
that's weighing on the markets right now is in Vidio
in video down around two percentage points when last I checked.
The issue is right now three percent now that soft
Bank sold its remaining stake in Vidio in its entirety,
it's not unprecedented. Soft Bank has sold out of Nvidia before.
(01:46):
I'd also remind our audience yesterday Vidia jumped almost six percent,
on track for its biggest jump, or was its biggest
jump since April.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
But the market's a little nervous. Hire. There's a lot
to unpack.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Car there is, and let's unpack it with our executive
Global Tech editor, Peter Elstrom. Peter talk us through what
is happening, because, as Ed says, this is not unheard of,
and in many ways what they use the money for
could end up being a benefit to Invidia longer term.
Speaker 6 (02:13):
Yeah, that's exactly right, Caroline. So SoftBank reported earnings for
the quarter, they were really blow out earnings. They reported
about sixteen billion dollars in that income. That's roughly six
times what had been expected. A lot of that came
from some of their investments in AI, including their stake
in open Ai in particular. But as as you mentioned,
they decided that they were going to sell their entire
(02:34):
stake in Nvidia and take take the six billion dollars
so that they can make other investments with it. Now,
a big part of where they're going to put that
money is into their Stargate venture, where they're building these
AI data centers in the US, and they're going to
buy in Vidia chips to put into those data centers.
So partly Masioshi son is getting this cash so it
can make investments in AI. Some people may be reading
(02:54):
it as a negative sign for AI and for Nvidia
in particular, but in fact he's going to use that
need to make investments.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Again, not unprecedented in Nvidia was a stock that Softbanks
sold out of in twenty nineteen, and then in twenty
twenty they started building up his stake again in some
of those paper games have been to SoftBank's benefit. The
issue is that management faced a lot of questions both
about what.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
They're doing here.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
They're rationale what they're going to use the cash forward,
but also are we in an AI bubble?
Speaker 5 (03:23):
Peter? What did they say?
Speaker 6 (03:25):
Yeah, there was one of the questions that came up.
So Marcoshi Son doesn't do their earnings calls anymore. He
stopped doing those a few years ago when he was
taken arm public. But he has said a number of
times that he regrets selling in video shares in twenty nineteen,
as you referred to, those shares would have been worth
more than two hundred billion dollars now, which is more
than the market cap for a SoftBank at this point.
But so the person who stubs in for him as
(03:47):
the CFO, Yoshimisi Goto, and he talked through these issues.
He did get some questions about the Invidia shares. He said,
it's not that they don't believe in Nvidia anymore. He
also got the question you're referring to are we in
an AI bubble? And he said it's hard to tell
at this point. Not quite the same kind of conviction
you would hear from Sam Altman or from Jensen Wong,
but he's realistic about we're not really sure where we
(04:07):
are in this cycle. But to be clear, Masieo Sheson
is going to keep making investments.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Peter Elstrom breaking it down, We thank you so much.
Let's talk about where we are in this cycle. Because
Core Weave shares, as Ed pointed out earlier, under pressure.
That's after it lowered its annual revenue forecast due to
delay it a third party developing a data center really
overshadowed impressive growth in revenue in order backlog. Let's get
straight to it with Core Weave CEO Michael and Trader.
How frustrating is it that you don't own your entire
(04:33):
supply chain? How much of an issue is some power
you have to give to third parties?
Speaker 7 (04:39):
Oh so, look, look, I think it's important to understand
that every single part of this ecosystem is dependent upon
other parts of the ecosystem. Nobody controls the entire supply chain,
and that's just the nature of doing business at this
scale on projects that are as complicated as whether it's
(05:03):
you know, you know, the the design and architecture of
the chips, through the fabrication of the chips, through the
building of the data center, through the concrete that has
to go into the data center. Like it's just, you know,
like it's really hard to even contemplate a world in
which you have true control over every aspect of it.
(05:24):
And so you're going to work with partners, and you're
going to work with good partners that are able to
help you.
Speaker 8 (05:31):
Drive your business forward.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Is this a good partner who's had issues at this
PowerShell level?
Speaker 7 (05:36):
Yeah, Look, they are a good partner, right, Like, we've
been working with these guys since twenty and eighteen.
Speaker 8 (05:42):
There there has been a stumble.
Speaker 7 (05:44):
There's an issue. The issue is going to be cleaned
up rapidly. But I wouldn't say that they're not a
good partner. I think that, you know, we are. You know,
we've gone back and contracted with them again and again,
and you know they've contracted with us again and again
because you know, we do work well together. It's just
you know, occasionally you hit a bump in the road.
(06:04):
You know, what we're talking about here is a contract
that gets pushed back by you know, uh one quarter,
let's say, and that the impact of that on our
revenue is a delay of revenue, not a loss of revenue.
And uh, you know, I think that is the definition
of working with.
Speaker 8 (06:23):
An ecosystem of good partners.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
Michael, good morning.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Which customer was it pleased that was impacted by this delay?
Speaker 7 (06:30):
We don't speak to specific customers within the data centers.
Speaker 8 (06:34):
That's that's not how we look at it.
Speaker 7 (06:36):
But you know, we we we really are working with
the whole you know, or a material part of the broader.
Speaker 8 (06:45):
Kind of.
Speaker 7 (06:47):
Ecosystem that consumes compute at this scale. So you know
that that that's you know, there's a large project, it's
from a large counterpart, and you know, like I said,
you know they they understand, uh, the the impact of
this delay and that they are.
Speaker 8 (07:03):
Shifting with us.
Speaker 7 (07:04):
The contract back to ensure that the total contract value
that was being contemplated is going to be captured at
this reilm.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I thought you might say that, but I wanted to
offer you the opportunity to explain who the customer was.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I appreciate this is going to sound a little bit
like I work in your internal audit team or in
your risk team, but there is a bigger issue here
of managing third party risk as much as you can.
So if your supply is tight today, what procedures are
you putting in place for the event that your backlog
doubles and supply is even tighter down the road.
Speaker 7 (07:40):
Listen, that's a that's a that's that is the question
that we work on across our company continuously, right And
if you, if you, if you think about the messages
that I was trying to communicate.
Speaker 8 (07:54):
During the earning.
Speaker 7 (07:55):
Scroll yesterday, I talked about the incredible impact of the
effort that we've had to diversify our clients. We started
the year with you know, eighty five percent of our
revenue to a single client, and we are coming out
of the year with our back log with you know,
which has reached you know, all time highs where no
(08:16):
specific client is more than thirty five percent of it.
And that is down from fifty percent even last quarter.
So you're seeing tremendous progress on the contracting side, on
the supply side, when you're looking at the powershells the
data center providers, you know, there is no single provider
of data centers that represents in excess of twenty percent
(08:40):
of our two point nine gigawatts of power that we
will be delivering to the market over the next twenty
four months.
Speaker 9 (08:48):
You know.
Speaker 7 (08:48):
So you're seeing a real focus by our company to
diversify on both sides of the you know, the ledger,
the clients that we are delivering infrastructure to as well
as the suppliers that are delivering us the components that
we need to be successful.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
What can be done Because we hear about power issues,
we hear about how much.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
People maybe need government to help speed.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Up contracts, supply chain headaches. What is it in this
particular data center issue that won't be replicated down the road.
How are you making sure or is it just something
we are going to see time and time again do
you think so?
Speaker 7 (09:28):
Look the way that we are handling this is we
are doing several discrete things to ensure that we are
future proofing ourselves against these type of delays.
Speaker 8 (09:41):
Right.
Speaker 7 (09:41):
So, we have our team that has been built out
over the past year that builds and delivers data center
and so we have self build organization to be able
to deliver our own data centers for instance, Kenilworth in
New Jersey or Lancaster in Pennsylvania, where we are building
from the ground up.
Speaker 8 (10:01):
Those skill sets.
Speaker 7 (10:02):
Being able to deploy those individuals with those talents down
to the data centers as they're being constructed by third parties.
If they encounter problems where we can be useful, helpful
thinking through ways of solving and driving the process forward
is really important to being able to mitigate these type
(10:24):
of delays.
Speaker 8 (10:25):
We have massively.
Speaker 7 (10:29):
Diversified our data center providers so we're not exposed to
any specific they say to data center provider.
Speaker 8 (10:38):
In too large of a component.
Speaker 7 (10:40):
And then the third piece of it is it's important
to understand that as we get larger, as our delivered
power gets larger, the relative impact of a delay at
any one given site becomes less and less meaningful and
less and less impactful on our.
Speaker 8 (11:00):
Run rate. And that's really important.
Speaker 7 (11:03):
Like you're encountering scaling issues within a company, that's encountering
scaling issues.
Speaker 8 (11:10):
Within a supply chain, both of those will get better.
Time solves that scale solves that we.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Are currently seeing that time isn't particularly helping the share price.
As we speak, it's now down fourteen point three percent,
worst day since August.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
We are here with Michael and Trader across radio and TV, and.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
I want to sort of ask whether you think more broadly,
the US is stunted by the supply chain headache, or
do you think there is something that can be done
from a federal perspective here to ensure that you can
build at the rate you want to build you're not
having these sorts of headaches.
Speaker 7 (11:41):
So we've been we and many others have been, you know,
quite forceful in making the case that there is a
role for government in helping us with some of the
permitting issues, speed to which you can get our infrastructure
(12:02):
and others can get their infrastructure attached to the grid.
You know, all of those type of things where there's
there's there's a great role for for for the government
to help in that. They are the they are the
organization or government entity that is correctly positioned to help
facilitate that. And I think that's a great role where
where government can lean in and make an impact across
(12:24):
the space.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Broble Michael, you have an agreement within NVIDIA that lots
of people find very interesting that down the road, if
there is spare capacity, there's some flexibility for you to
deploy it elsewhere. That's a simple summation of it. But
I'm wondering how you're thinking about serving some of the
smaller AI labs and casting that net even wider in
(12:46):
your customer base if indeed that capacity gets freed up
down the line.
Speaker 7 (12:51):
Yeah, it's a it's a contract. I'm actually incredibly excited about, right.
It's a contract that we did within VideA where we
will deliver them compute for the next six years. But
in the contract is the capacity to interrupt the flow
of compute to them, and that will allow us to
repurpose that compute to new companies, startups, companies that have
(13:17):
struggled to get access to the compute that they require
to bring new companies, organizations, ideas into existence. And I
think it's just an incredibly important component of how the
infrastructure is so important to allowing the ecosystem itself, of
these startups, of these new companies, of these new ideas
(13:38):
to become more resilient, to become more scaled, And it's
just a great contract for us to be.
Speaker 8 (13:45):
Able to position ourselves.
Speaker 7 (13:47):
It also provides this wonderful on ramp for us to
be able to work with the new amazing companies that
are coming into existence so that they integrate into our
solution and get to make use of the best alternative
that exists in the market as they're scaling their companies.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Michael, it's finished to what extent is in Vidious still
the gold standard in videous GPUs for your customer base
and what data are you tracking on demand for those
kind of more inferenced specific chips that are offered by others.
Speaker 7 (14:19):
So look, we have always been client led, right. Our
clients come to market and tell us, hey, we would
like you guys to help us build a cluster. We
needed to be this size and this location and this
type of network, and we work with them in a
very kind of interactive way to ensure that the infrastructure
(14:40):
that we're building is the best infrastructure for them, is
fungible for us, like all of these type of requirements
to make for successful delivery of infrastructure. Right now, the
reality of the situation is the buy signals from our
clients overwhelm our capacity to deliver infrastructure to the market.
(15:04):
As a matter of fact, they overwhelmed the entire market's
capacity to deliver infrastructure to the market. You have a
systemic shortage of ability to deliver the GPU's the computing
infrastructure for the buildout of artificial intelligence and we have
never wavered from that position. We have been very very
clear that you know, when we look at the demand
(15:27):
signals coming into core Weave, the totality of that overwhelms
the capacity of the market to deliver that, and will
continue to do that for quite a while.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Michael Intradeser, Core Weave CEO, thank you for coming back
on Bloomberg tet. Okay, I'm also taking a look at
shares of Nebus. This is the Neo Clouds spun out
of Russia's Yandex A year ago. The USS shares down
more than three percent, but in the quarter soul growth
of three hundred percent year on year and has added
(15:57):
a major contract with Meta. That's positive upside. Maybe this
was a high bar kind of quarter where the market
saw it coming in, But you know, Cara, I think
you'd agree. Nebus name that's coming up more often in
the context of hyperscalers and this case Meta using them
for off ramped compute.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
All about the supply of AI infrastructure.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
But coming up, we steered towards earnings again, paramount s
guidance raising its target though for job cuts and for
cost saving measures we'll dig in next.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
This is a Blueberg Tech.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Back to earnings with paramount Skuidance, which reported it's financial
results for the first time since a new investor group
took over in August. The company raised its target for
job cuts and cost saving measures, and it's forecasting thirty
billion dollars in revenue next year. Let's break it all
down with Laura Martin's senior entertainment analyst at Needham. I
don't know, like, hello, what's being cheered here? You know,
(16:55):
sometimes cutting your way to profit and cutting your way
into a good financial positions not the most exciting story.
What is the Laura Martin main takeaway?
Speaker 10 (17:05):
Well, the Laura Martin main takeaway was I thought they
left more questions unanswered than they answered. So I think
one of the big questions is they just did an
affiliated transaction with Oracle, which for Enterprise Software, which is
the dad's company. So now you can, through pricing, move
money between these two public companies. That sort of was weird.
(17:26):
And then also they said they're going to spend a
billion five on content and double their film slate from
seven films a year to fifteen films a year starting
in twenty twenty six. And the problem with that is
the sky Dance track record is one theatrical release a year,
so so going to five fifteen means not only are
you spending the money on the negative cost, but now
you're going to spend about one hundred million each marketing,
(17:48):
which all just sounds like an awful lot of money
that you're spending in the near term, which is a
tax on public shareholders before you get the return. It
takes about three years to release a movie between green
lining and release, which means you have a couple of
investment years ahead of you, which doesn't sound like you know,
so we're going to stay on the sidelines here. In
terms of the shares.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
I want to go back to that relationship between Oracle
and the affiliated transaction that you mention, implying that the
value can be transferred between the two public companies. How
much is that help if we're thinking about the shar
scale of money David Ellison needs perhaps from Larry Edison
to keep on buying in WBD assets, or how much
(18:30):
is it a concern just in what are you actually
buying an entertainment company here or a tech an AI
infrastructure bet so.
Speaker 10 (18:37):
I think that is one of the differentiated things they're
saying is they're saying that our content storytelling is complementary
to our tech stack, and our tech stack needs investment
because Paramount, the old Paramount sort of starved it. So
we p Sky are going to invest in the tech stack.
So from a fundamental point of view, they're going to
try to marry storytelling with Jenai tech, which is sort
(19:01):
of a cool messaging although expensive in the near term.
I would say the oracle point was just a new
piece of information we got, having nothing to do with
the Warner Brothers. Like if the dad writes a seventy
billion dollar check to Warner Brothers, like you know, that's
a bigger deal than a contract might be several million
a year. So it was just an affiliated transaction that
(19:24):
I just would really like to see the pricing on
when they have to disclose it in a ten K.
But this's just a new piece of information. I think
the big issue is you don't know what you're buying here.
Are you buying a sixteen billion dollar subscale Paramount sky
Dance or are you buying a Are they going to
use money to make a seventy billion dollar acquisition of
all of Warner Brothers and then that's a hundred that's
(19:47):
round numbers, one hundred billion dollars scaled player with bigger
everything including studios. So then you wouldn't have to double
the films because Warner Brothers got fifteen by itself already.
So I think they might be justifying of warn Brother's
bid in some ways with some of their cost estimates.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
Here, Laura, very quick pivot here.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
You just heard the cool weave interview, you published your
research on hyperscale capex.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
Just a quick reaction to what you heard.
Speaker 10 (20:14):
Yeah, So, I mean, I think one of the big
biggest question we get is are the hyperscaler spending too
much money on infrastructure? And we published a note this
morning showing that the JENAI implementations at Amazon, Meta, and
Alphabet are accelerating their revenue growth and cutting their operating costs.
So they're getting margin expansion by using generative AI tools,
(20:37):
which gives them the confidence to invest in these infrastructure
plays to then sell to third parties those same capabilities
to lower costs and drive faster product innovation for the
rest of the US economy. So I actually think that
the biggest funders of generative AI infrastructure are seeing the
(20:58):
biggest benefits already in their own businesses.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Laur Martin on optimistic mode for the end.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
We really appreciate it always from Needham, keep coming back,
thank you.
Speaker 11 (21:08):
The valuations don't look crazy, but they do if there's nervousness.
Are on the growth story in and that's why I
think the AI story, of which we do remain bullish,
and we do think that there is a lot further
to go, it is likely to be a volatile ride.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
That was Black Rocks Helen Jewels discussing the nervousness we're
seeing in AI stocks right now.
Speaker 5 (21:27):
You can see that in nvideo and you can see
it in core Wave.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
As we've been discussing all morning, the risks aren't only
about lack of growth. Bloomberg opinion columnist Chris Bryant, writing
about that there's a quote a danger of depreciation tsunami,
links to the short lifespan of AI chips. His piece
focuses on AI investors ignoring warnings from short seller Michael Berry.
You can check that out on the Bloomberg terminal or
(21:51):
dot com carac.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Now, though, ed, it's time for talking tech, and first up,
Microsoft is planning to build a ten billion dollar AI
data center the Portuguese coast.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
He's working with start.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Campus, the Portuguese developer, and British startup Ndscale, one of
Microsoft's biggest European investments this year. Plus, Intel's chief technology
and AI officer Sajin Kati has left to join Open Ai,
where he'll be working on the.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
Startups infrastructure efforts.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Back in Intel, well CEO Lit Tan will take over
Catty's role and reports on another major departure, Meta is
set to lose its chief AI scientist, Jan Kuhn.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
According to Financial Times.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Lacun is reportedly leaving to launch his own style up,
focusing on what he calls world models, as in early
talks with investors to raise funds.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech if you're just joining us.
Our top stories are coll Weave and Nvidio. In video
down three percent, SoftBank is selling out of the entirety
of it's almost six billion dollar steak in the company
because it needs cash to finance his other AI ventures.
The street not really seeing this as a concern about
in video itself, but in aggregate taken with cor Weave's
(23:02):
almost fourteen percent drop, there are some jitters in the market.
Corweave is down after just slightly trimming it's outlook for
sales in twenty twenty five because of a delay on
a specific data center project that delayed trimbutable to a
third party. And in an interview of the CEO earlier
in the program, we didn't really get any answers on
who the customer impact it is. But with time and
(23:23):
with scale, such supply issues will go away. The market
right now not buying it.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Kra they're not, and let's stick in with the fact
that the market's not buying it. Bloomberg Gecrity's reporter comm
and Rhyinikey is here with us and it's interesting the
jitters around AI of late have been around an AI
bubble and demand concern but ultimately these are supply side issues.
Constraints for cor Weave, maybe the cash constraints for Softbag
and needings sell off in video.
Speaker 12 (23:47):
Yeah, it's really interesting how this has shifted really from
the dip buying that we saw yesterday the drove and
video up Corey we think was also up before the
Bell before it reported its results, and now we're seeing
really any concern on I their side, AI bubble or
supply here is really weighing on these shares. I think
as the AI theme just continues to get stretched, investors
(24:08):
are nervous and they're really really ready to sell at
kind of any moment, this especially coming before in video
results next week. Obviously the whole market really looks ahead
to that, but shares going down into in video results
is a little bit different than what we usually.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
See, right Covin, you made a really good point, and
I'm going to bring up a chart to illustrate it.
Yesterday and Vidia jumped almost six percent, which was its
biggest jump since early April.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
So a drop off of.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Three percent or more in the session taken into account
with the newsflow, give that context. Generally speaking, though, what
is the sentiment of the investors that we're speaking to
right now? Are they still like mega bullish on this
long term trend that they think will just carry on
and keep going.
Speaker 12 (24:52):
Yeah, that's a really great question. I think people are
very split. But I hear a lot of people that
are still very bullish on the long term trend and
even say that some selling now or a little shakeout
in the market would be pretty healthy. I mean, valuations
are very stretched. We've we're three years into a bull run.
These are some of the biggest stocks in the overall markets.
That makes sense that they've drag down the entire index,
(25:13):
so a little bit of a shakeout here wouldn't be
a huge concern. Obviously, this is really overlaid though, with
the fact that people are really talking about an AI bubble,
and so I think any selling in any of these stocks,
even you know, at the end of the year when
people are sort of looking to lock in performance lock
in gains it, you know, sparks more conversation around this
entire debate about an AI bubble.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Bloombos come and rhyanikay, thank you very much. Meanwhile, shares
of Nokia and Ericsson close higher in European trading. Sources
say the European Commission is weighing steps to push EU
members to phase out Huawei and Zte gear from telecom
networks amid security concerns. More let's get out to Bloomberg's
(25:55):
Illn Deutsch who joins us with the reporting. This is
timely and this is very interesting. What do we learn
in the course of reporting about how serious this move
is to push Huawei out of the market, That it
is very strong in in Europe.
Speaker 13 (26:10):
Yeah, I think it's actually really important to note. People
do not realize that there's still so much Huawei Kit
in various EU countries infrastructures, and the European Commission for
years has wanted to push U countries to stop using
this technology across their networks.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
They have really failed to do so.
Speaker 13 (26:28):
And the new Commission that came in two years ago,
they're doing a new push. They're going to try to
get different EU countries to push out force out Huawei
and ZTE. Now I cannot orderstate how difficult this is
going to be. Like I said, the previous Commission tried
to do this and they did not have the political backing.
Things like critical infrastructure, are things like national security. These
(26:48):
are left up to the member states of the EU.
So essentially what has to happen is these countries will
have to come together and say yes, actually we're going
to hand over that power to Brussels, to the European
Commission to make that reality. That is a tough pill
for a lot of countries to swallow.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Countries such as in your piecing make clear Spain, Greece,
which have remained relatively dependent interestingly UK. We know that
they've been pulling away for long time, banned any Huawei infrastructure,
similar with Sweden, so it can be done. It's interesting
that Chinas sort of tried to point out that it
slowed those nations down there.
Speaker 13 (27:21):
Yeah, it's a great point, Kawlin, because you know a
lot of the operators and independent analysis has been done
to show that actually by forcing a strip out of
Huawei from the UK networks, that delayed.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Five year roll by up to two years.
Speaker 13 (27:33):
This is a very costly ambition from certain countries if
they want to go ahead with this kind of push.
Not only does it delay possible you know, technology development,
it also comes at a great cost to the operators.
So if you look at Germany, for example, some people
in the government are examining ways that. Okay, if they
were to try to force Huawei and ct out of
their networks, could they compensate operators not Obviously would soften
(27:55):
the blow for a lot of these operators, but this
would commit a great cost then to governments.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
If not readers.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Jinaen Deutsch's great read, we urge people to go take
a read of it, thank you very much. Indeed, let's
take a look at crypto more broadly right now, because
we want to put it into the world a bitcoin.
It's too seeing some risk a version selling. Today we're
off by two percent one hundred and three thousand. Remember
it remains below its moving average targets, so one hundred
day moving average for example, at one hundred and ten thousand.
(28:22):
It remains trading below that. People fearful they won't be
seeing any sort of breakout. We're seeing Gemini space station
though Gemini, of course crypto Exchange went public recently off
by fifteen percent. That's after its earnings just showed that
perhaps they're not managing to ramp into any sort of
profitability as soon as people have maybe hoped. Let's bring
in Blomberg senior crypto rewarter Olga Karaf, who can dig
into the Gemini story because they were a beneficiary of
(28:46):
the changes in regulation in the United States.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
But why did it underwhelm on the quart of just reporting.
Speaker 14 (28:53):
So, like you said, the Winkle West twins that founded Gemini,
they have been very strong supporters of President Trump and
a lot of crypto companies with public this year as
we've seen sort of deregulation and more favorable regulatory environment
(29:15):
towards the industry. But the fact of the matter is
that the company, Gemini, is unprofitable and some analysts basically
don't expect it to become profitable until two or three
years from now. And what we've seen in this quarter
is that the losses widened partially because of this ideolic
(29:36):
related expenses and marketing expenses. But people are wondering, sort of,
what about profitability, when is that going to come?
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Alger It's good to see Dan Chen, the CFO, talked
about this the expenses issue and it being strategic for
those that have never come across Gemini. What's the business
model on paper? Just explain the basics of how it
supposed to function, because then that will make the loss
probably more digestible.
Speaker 14 (30:06):
Sure, so it's a crypto exchange, So their biggest rival
is coinbase here in the US, and essentially they make
their money about half of the money off of trading
fees as people trade bitcoin, ether and other cryptocurrencies. And
then they also have other businesses such as you know,
(30:30):
their credit cards have actually been on a roll and
they've been able to grab a lot of new users
through credit cards that essentially allow you to earn crypto
rewards as you spend money. They also have a custody
business and some other.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Businesses looms, Olga grief, Thank you very much. Now coming
up on the program, Ali Barber's Singles Day is underway
and this year AI isn't an option for shopping.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
We got more on that. Next, this is Bloodbag Tech.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
China Singles Day.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
It is underway now in its seventeenth year, but shifting
consumer habits and he fears price war. They've dourned the
one day shopping blitz into a weeks long campaign. Bloomberg
TV's chief North Asia correspondent Stephen Engel really examines China's
involving consumption trends amid a tougher economy.
Speaker 15 (31:34):
Influencer peddling is all the rage in China online, of course,
but now more than ever before on the actual trade
fair floor as well, where rapid fire hawking of product
over multiple mobile phones direct to China's billion plus consumers
has never been this well in your face.
Speaker 5 (31:54):
I mean, I don't know how they talk so much.
Speaker 15 (31:56):
Everything you possibly need to know about Vietnamese and other
products from overseas doesn't matter if it's New Zealand milk
powder and ice cream, or Italian cleaning supplies complete with
a Mandarin speaking European oh your bow mouth. They're all
competing for Chinese cyber shoppers. In a market where around
forty percent of all retail sales are now done online.
Speaker 8 (32:19):
A single days eleven eleven is huge.
Speaker 14 (32:22):
We have a strong presence on online platform and we
have a strong focus on gen Z.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
I know think as they had another few more weeks Togo,
but so far the result has been very, very encouraging.
Speaker 15 (32:33):
Online shopping in China is growing at three times the
pace of traditional retail, with many brick and mortar outlets
feeling that pain. CPI did pick up slightly in October,
but overall retail spending is expected to have slowed again
as households hold on to savings amid economic uncertainty. Add
to that are lingering worries importers and exporters here feel
(32:57):
about the fragile trade trups with the United States.
Speaker 16 (33:00):
High terriffs are hurting everybody, hurting both sides. One of
the things that as businesses we do hope is that
there is longer than a fourteen month detent, shall we say,
but that there is some general baseline of the relationship.
These are areas we're going to trade in. These are
areas that are no go. This is kind of a
gray area where we'll keep negotiating on because that would
help us all to your point, really understand what we
(33:22):
can move forward. And if I do want to have
a five year contract with an American supplier, I know,
no matter what, I'm going to get that product.
Speaker 9 (33:28):
I think it's been critically important that we have clarity.
Speaker 15 (33:32):
US wine experts to China this year were down seventy
seven percent in the seven months through July from a
year ago, with Chinese tariffs and taxes combined amounting to
about seventy five percent on American wine, and yet Barrows
is cautiously optimistic for recovery as the truce has kept
tariffs from escalating further.
Speaker 9 (33:51):
It was a very very positive development that they came
up with an actual number that's going to be in
place for the next fourteen months, because before that, I
think a lot of importers weren't so upset about the tariff.
It's they didn't know what it was going to be,
and so now we know what it's going to be,
at least through the end of December of twenty twenty six,
(34:13):
and I'm hoping that that brings some normalcyback into the process.
Speaker 15 (34:18):
It's an endurance game shared in some respect by the
many influencers in nearby booths to keep talking, to keep
the parties on the other end engaged. Steven Angel, Bloomberg
News Gender.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
We stay with Single's Day this year if Ali Barber
artificial intelligence takes center stage as the company pushes out
AI driven search results. Deborah wind Swig, Coresite Research CEO says,
quote winners going forward up brands investing in AI driven personalization.
The retail playbook now blends tech trust and instant gratification commerce.
(34:54):
Deborah whine six joins us now Deborah, that report from
Steven Adam Mainland China fascinating learning about sort of the
scale of the event. But will zero in on Ali
Barber and where AI is or isn't making the difference.
What's your assessment about where they stand in that market,
which he just outlined is pretty chaotic at the moment.
Speaker 17 (35:17):
Well, first, thanks for having me on. Second, as we
look at Ali Baba specifically, I would say that last
year they were dipping their tone in the water and
this year, they're in kind of up to their thigh
as it relates to AI and the shopping experience. So
starting at the very beginning all the way through there
(35:38):
or kind of the PDPs or the information behind all
of the images on the website to what you've bought previously,
is that they serve up products you are more likely
to purchase. But it's all EI driven and it's highly
personalized in a very short period of time, so that
return rates are dropping, which is a positive because you're
(35:58):
buying more of what you want, and it's also much
easier to do the research you need and that you
want to do in order to find the perfect gift
for others or for yourself.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Debra, we actually had some headlines how to China Cross
since we came on air. Shao Me's single day sales
exceed twenty nine billion yu want, which if my maths correct,
is just slightly above four billion US dollars. That show me,
what do you make of that number and put show
Me's success in singles day into context or what you
just told us about Ali Baba.
Speaker 17 (36:31):
Yeah, we've continued to hear from a lot of Western
brands that their sales are exceeding expectations, and I think
what they're learning from that is to think about how
to bring some of those learnings back to the US.
But this idea that the consumer can find and buy,
and when you think about like show me right, this
(36:51):
idea that the consumer and this was actually one of
the probably key areas of interest is that they call
them like AI toys, but like AI toys have been
one of the hottest categories, that and beauty, and so
the Shami numbers I would say probably are a little
higher than we would have expected, but that's the trend
(37:13):
that we're seeing, and you know, we believe that'll continue
to strengthen.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Chaomi makes AI toys on wheels, cars, but also ones
that you have in your hand. How much you seeing
at the moment the luxury perspective though, because Shami has
been on the hills of a tesla and everyone's thinking
about the amount of market share that these local domestic
players are now taking the world of ev and of
course phones, but relatively luxurious products to be spending on.
(37:38):
Where do you see just general consumer appetite right now?
Speaker 17 (37:42):
That's a great question and we've done a lot of
research on this. So what we're starting to see is
a I would say, a strengthening at the high end,
But when it comes to let's say basic essentials. Going
back to this idea of research and how much easier
it is to find product. Consumers are i would say,
being increasingly frugal on everyday necessities and then looking to
(38:05):
treat themselves. So I would say AI is helping them
get smarter. But we are i'd say, probably earlier than
many people expected. We are starting to see a strengthening
in the high end.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
What are they buying in terms of AI wearables? And
they're like, I'm seeing oring and ordering. There's lots of
new cove competises on the market here in the United States,
but I can only imagine the raft of options you
got to purchase over in China right now.
Speaker 17 (38:28):
I mean, we're seeing really interesting things on the wearable side,
like bracelets and pins and whatnot. Other kind of like
even health sensing, body sensing. Can you find your your
mate depending on right the you know you're you're kind
of the electromagnetic field that you're like. It's it's really
really interesting in terms of how it really is. They're
(38:52):
toys to make your life more fun. But also better
and I think going back to this idea around data
from a healthcare perspective, that's it increasingly important and we're
seeing it drive improved results for consumers as well.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
The data sets that you're tracking, even from this this
year's event and prior years, if you've got any assessment
of like the investment these companies have to make to
get a payoff, like how committed they are to winning,
what you've outlined very clearly is a bit of a
scramble to get consumers who are making very conscious, proactive
(39:29):
spending choices.
Speaker 17 (39:32):
So therein lies the that is like the question of
the day, and one of the biggest differences between the
Western consumer and the Chinese consumer is you know this
isn't like you know you're clipping coupons, Well, I guess
you're clipping them, but digital And as we're seeing it
go into the end of the double even shopping season,
(39:52):
how the couponing, right, it goes back to it's adjusting
in real time. So if retailers and brands aren't seeing
the desired outcomes, they're able to change it in real time. Right.
These aren't like marketing plans built out six twelve eighteen
weeks ahead of time, and therein is why I think
we're going to see a much stronger double eleven season
(40:12):
than we have in the past. And those retailers like
Lululemon is in you know, the minds of the Chinese consumers.
That's the local brand because they've really embraced this and
they did have to invest of course early on, but
now they're reaping the rewards of that investment. And so
that's like Lululna and Loreal. Those are some just great
examples of brands right, so European brand and US brand
(40:34):
or Nadian brand technically North American brand of companies who
have invested and as a result they're seeing outsize rewards.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Instant gratification. Commerce is the line on your note. We
really appreciate it. Thank you, Debrah Weinswig for joining us.
Of course, like research coming up, Oracle co founder Larry
Ellison gets more employees on his supervision off to the
company CEO swap.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
We'll discuss what that entails next. This is Broom, the
tech
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is a
live from Coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New
York and Eva low in sentrancs.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Go, This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. Soft Bank sells
its entire stake in Nvidia for close to six billion dollars.
This to help bankroll it's other AI investments.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
As we sit down with core Wee've CEO Michael and
Trader to talk about the company's earnings and that data
center delay and.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
More earnings with paramount skide answer as the company reports
its first results since David Ellison's takeover.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Much to digest when it comes to the fundamentals of
businesses today, and but overall we've got a bit of
risk aversion here. We've got some of the biggest players
in technology. On the downside, you're going to drill into
the individual movers. But there is a question of AI infrastructure.
There's a question of pressure or some of these market
capitalizations of eight ten percent after yesterday's bounce back on
hopes that the government shutdown might.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Be reaching some sort of end.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
But then take us to the individual movers.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, cor Weave is where we start stock down about
thirteen percent, on track for its biggest drop since mid August.
The stock trading in its lowest level since early September.
In a few minutes time, we're going to speak to
the CEO, Michael and traitor.
Speaker 5 (01:21):
The company cut its revenue.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Outlook for fiscal twenty five or trimmed it really because
of a delay to a specific project. The other thing
that's weighing on the markets right now is in Vidio
in video down around two percentage points when last I checked.
The issue is right now three percent now that soft
Bank sold its remaining stake in Vidio in its entirety,
it's not unprecedented. Soft Bank has sold out of Nvidia before.
(01:46):
I'd also remind our audience yesterday Vidia jumped almost six percent,
on track for its biggest jump, or was its biggest
jump since April.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
But the market's a little nervous. Hire. There's a lot
to unpack.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Car there is, and let's unpack it with our executive
Global Tech editor, Peter Elstrom. Peter talk us through what
is happening, because, as Ed says, this is not unheard of,
and in many ways what they use the money for
could end up being a benefit to Invidia longer term.
Speaker 6 (02:13):
Yeah, that's exactly right, Caroline. So SoftBank reported earnings for
the quarter, they were really blow out earnings. They reported
about sixteen billion dollars in that income. That's roughly six
times what had been expected. A lot of that came
from some of their investments in AI, including their stake
in open Ai in particular. But as as you mentioned,
they decided that they were going to sell their entire
(02:34):
stake in Nvidia and take take the six billion dollars
so that they can make other investments with it. Now,
a big part of where they're going to put that
money is into their Stargate venture, where they're building these
AI data centers in the US, and they're going to
buy in Vidia chips to put into those data centers.
So partly Masioshi son is getting this cash so it
can make investments in AI. Some people may be reading
(02:54):
it as a negative sign for AI and for Nvidia
in particular, but in fact he's going to use that
need to make investments.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Again, not unprecedented in Nvidia was a stock that Softbanks
sold out of in twenty nineteen, and then in twenty
twenty they started building up his stake again in some
of those paper games have been to SoftBank's benefit. The
issue is that management faced a lot of questions both
about what.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
They're doing here.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
They're rationale what they're going to use the cash forward,
but also are we in an AI bubble?
Speaker 5 (03:23):
Peter? What did they say?
Speaker 6 (03:25):
Yeah, there was one of the questions that came up.
So Marcoshi Son doesn't do their earnings calls anymore. He
stopped doing those a few years ago when he was
taken arm public. But he has said a number of
times that he regrets selling in video shares in twenty nineteen,
as you referred to, those shares would have been worth
more than two hundred billion dollars now, which is more
than the market cap for a SoftBank at this point.
But so the person who stubs in for him as
(03:47):
the CFO, Yoshimisi Goto, and he talked through these issues.
He did get some questions about the Invidia shares. He said,
it's not that they don't believe in Nvidia anymore. He
also got the question you're referring to are we in
an AI bubble? And he said it's hard to tell
at this point. Not quite the same kind of conviction
you would hear from Sam Altman or from Jensen Wong,
but he's realistic about we're not really sure where we
(04:07):
are in this cycle. But to be clear, Masieo Sheson
is going to keep making investments.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Peter Elstrom breaking it down, We thank you so much.
Let's talk about where we are in this cycle. Because
Core Weave shares, as Ed pointed out earlier, under pressure.
That's after it lowered its annual revenue forecast due to
delay it a third party developing a data center really
overshadowed impressive growth in revenue in order backlog. Let's get
straight to it with Core Weave CEO Michael and Trader.
How frustrating is it that you don't own your entire
(04:33):
supply chain? How much of an issue is some power
you have to give to third parties?
Speaker 7 (04:39):
Oh so, look, look, I think it's important to understand
that every single part of this ecosystem is dependent upon
other parts of the ecosystem. Nobody controls the entire supply chain,
and that's just the nature of doing business at this
scale on projects that are as complicated as whether it's
(05:03):
you know, you know, the the design and architecture of
the chips, through the fabrication of the chips, through the
building of the data center, through the concrete that has
to go into the data center. Like it's just, you know,
like it's really hard to even contemplate a world in
which you have true control over every aspect of it.
(05:24):
And so you're going to work with partners, and you're
going to work with good partners that are able to
help you.
Speaker 8 (05:31):
Drive your business forward.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Is this a good partner who's had issues at this
PowerShell level?
Speaker 7 (05:36):
Yeah, Look, they are a good partner, right, Like, we've
been working with these guys since twenty and eighteen.
Speaker 8 (05:42):
There there has been a stumble.
Speaker 7 (05:44):
There's an issue. The issue is going to be cleaned
up rapidly. But I wouldn't say that they're not a
good partner. I think that, you know, we are. You know,
we've gone back and contracted with them again and again,
and you know they've contracted with us again and again
because you know, we do work well together. It's just
you know, occasionally you hit a bump in the road.
(06:04):
You know, what we're talking about here is a contract
that gets pushed back by you know, uh one quarter,
let's say, and that the impact of that on our
revenue is a delay of revenue, not a loss of revenue.
And uh, you know, I think that is the definition
of working with.
Speaker 8 (06:23):
An ecosystem of good partners.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
Michael, good morning.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Which customer was it pleased that was impacted by this delay?
Speaker 7 (06:30):
We don't speak to specific customers within the data centers.
Speaker 8 (06:34):
That's that's not how we look at it.
Speaker 7 (06:36):
But you know, we we we really are working with
the whole you know, or a material part of the broader.
Speaker 8 (06:45):
Kind of.
Speaker 7 (06:47):
Ecosystem that consumes compute at this scale. So you know
that that that's you know, there's a large project, it's
from a large counterpart, and you know, like I said,
you know they they understand, uh, the the impact of
this delay and that they are.
Speaker 8 (07:03):
Shifting with us.
Speaker 7 (07:04):
The contract back to ensure that the total contract value
that was being contemplated is going to be captured at
this reilm.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I thought you might say that, but I wanted to
offer you the opportunity to explain who the customer was.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I appreciate this is going to sound a little bit
like I work in your internal audit team or in
your risk team, but there is a bigger issue here
of managing third party risk as much as you can.
So if your supply is tight today, what procedures are
you putting in place for the event that your backlog
doubles and supply is even tighter down the road.
Speaker 7 (07:40):
Listen, that's a that's a that's that is the question
that we work on across our company continuously, right And
if you, if you, if you think about the messages
that I was trying to communicate.
Speaker 8 (07:54):
During the earning.
Speaker 7 (07:55):
Scroll yesterday, I talked about the incredible impact of the
effort that we've had to diversify our clients. We started
the year with you know, eighty five percent of our
revenue to a single client, and we are coming out
of the year with our back log with you know,
which has reached you know, all time highs where no
(08:16):
specific client is more than thirty five percent of it.
And that is down from fifty percent even last quarter.
So you're seeing tremendous progress on the contracting side, on
the supply side, when you're looking at the powershells the
data center providers, you know, there is no single provider
of data centers that represents in excess of twenty percent
(08:40):
of our two point nine gigawatts of power that we
will be delivering to the market over the next twenty
four months.
Speaker 9 (08:48):
You know.
Speaker 7 (08:48):
So you're seeing a real focus by our company to
diversify on both sides of the you know, the ledger,
the clients that we are delivering infrastructure to as well
as the suppliers that are delivering us the components that
we need to be successful.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
What can be done Because we hear about power issues,
we hear about how much.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
People maybe need government to help speed.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Up contracts, supply chain headaches. What is it in this
particular data center issue that won't be replicated down the road.
How are you making sure or is it just something
we are going to see time and time again do
you think so?
Speaker 7 (09:28):
Look the way that we are handling this is we
are doing several discrete things to ensure that we are
future proofing ourselves against these type of delays.
Speaker 8 (09:41):
Right.
Speaker 7 (09:41):
So, we have our team that has been built out
over the past year that builds and delivers data center
and so we have self build organization to be able
to deliver our own data centers for instance, Kenilworth in
New Jersey or Lancaster in Pennsylvania, where we are building
from the ground up.
Speaker 8 (10:01):
Those skill sets.
Speaker 7 (10:02):
Being able to deploy those individuals with those talents down
to the data centers as they're being constructed by third parties.
If they encounter problems where we can be useful, helpful
thinking through ways of solving and driving the process forward
is really important to being able to mitigate these type
(10:24):
of delays.
Speaker 8 (10:25):
We have massively.
Speaker 7 (10:29):
Diversified our data center providers so we're not exposed to
any specific they say to data center provider.
Speaker 8 (10:38):
In too large of a component.
Speaker 7 (10:40):
And then the third piece of it is it's important
to understand that as we get larger, as our delivered
power gets larger, the relative impact of a delay at
any one given site becomes less and less meaningful and
less and less impactful on our.
Speaker 8 (11:00):
Run rate. And that's really important.
Speaker 7 (11:03):
Like you're encountering scaling issues within a company, that's encountering
scaling issues.
Speaker 8 (11:10):
Within a supply chain, both of those will get better.
Time solves that scale solves that we.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Are currently seeing that time isn't particularly helping the share price.
As we speak, it's now down fourteen point three percent,
worst day since August.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
We are here with Michael and Trader across radio and TV, and.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
I want to sort of ask whether you think more broadly,
the US is stunted by the supply chain headache, or
do you think there is something that can be done
from a federal perspective here to ensure that you can
build at the rate you want to build you're not
having these sorts of headaches.
Speaker 7 (11:41):
So we've been we and many others have been, you know,
quite forceful in making the case that there is a
role for government in helping us with some of the
permitting issues, speed to which you can get our infrastructure
(12:02):
and others can get their infrastructure attached to the grid.
You know, all of those type of things where there's
there's there's a great role for for for the government
to help in that. They are the they are the
organization or government entity that is correctly positioned to help
facilitate that. And I think that's a great role where
where government can lean in and make an impact across
(12:24):
the space.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Broble Michael, you have an agreement within NVIDIA that lots
of people find very interesting that down the road, if
there is spare capacity, there's some flexibility for you to
deploy it elsewhere. That's a simple summation of it. But
I'm wondering how you're thinking about serving some of the
smaller AI labs and casting that net even wider in
(12:46):
your customer base if indeed that capacity gets freed up
down the line.
Speaker 7 (12:51):
Yeah, it's a it's a contract. I'm actually incredibly excited about, right.
It's a contract that we did within VideA where we
will deliver them compute for the next six years. But
in the contract is the capacity to interrupt the flow
of compute to them, and that will allow us to
repurpose that compute to new companies, startups, companies that have
(13:17):
struggled to get access to the compute that they require
to bring new companies, organizations, ideas into existence. And I
think it's just an incredibly important component of how the
infrastructure is so important to allowing the ecosystem itself, of
these startups, of these new companies, of these new ideas
(13:38):
to become more resilient, to become more scaled, And it's
just a great contract for us to be.
Speaker 8 (13:45):
Able to position ourselves.
Speaker 7 (13:47):
It also provides this wonderful on ramp for us to
be able to work with the new amazing companies that
are coming into existence so that they integrate into our
solution and get to make use of the best alternative
that exists in the market as they're scaling their companies.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Michael, it's finished to what extent is in Vidious still
the gold standard in videous GPUs for your customer base
and what data are you tracking on demand for those
kind of more inferenced specific chips that are offered by others.
Speaker 7 (14:19):
So look, we have always been client led, right. Our
clients come to market and tell us, hey, we would
like you guys to help us build a cluster. We
needed to be this size and this location and this
type of network, and we work with them in a
very kind of interactive way to ensure that the infrastructure
(14:40):
that we're building is the best infrastructure for them, is
fungible for us, like all of these type of requirements
to make for successful delivery of infrastructure. Right now, the
reality of the situation is the buy signals from our
clients overwhelm our capacity to deliver infrastructure to the market.
(15:04):
As a matter of fact, they overwhelmed the entire market's
capacity to deliver infrastructure to the market. You have a
systemic shortage of ability to deliver the GPU's the computing
infrastructure for the buildout of artificial intelligence and we have
never wavered from that position. We have been very very
clear that you know, when we look at the demand
(15:27):
signals coming into core Weave, the totality of that overwhelms
the capacity of the market to deliver that, and will
continue to do that for quite a while.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Michael Intradeser, Core Weave CEO, thank you for coming back
on Bloomberg tet. Okay, I'm also taking a look at
shares of Nebus. This is the Neo Clouds spun out
of Russia's Yandex A year ago. The USS shares down
more than three percent, but in the quarter soul growth
of three hundred percent year on year and has added
(15:57):
a major contract with Meta. That's positive upside. Maybe this
was a high bar kind of quarter where the market
saw it coming in, But you know, Cara, I think
you'd agree. Nebus name that's coming up more often in
the context of hyperscalers and this case Meta using them
for off ramped compute.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
All about the supply of AI infrastructure.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
But coming up, we steered towards earnings again, paramount s
guidance raising its target though for job cuts and for
cost saving measures we'll dig in next.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
This is a Blueberg Tech.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Back to earnings with paramount Skuidance, which reported it's financial
results for the first time since a new investor group
took over in August. The company raised its target for
job cuts and cost saving measures, and it's forecasting thirty
billion dollars in revenue next year. Let's break it all
down with Laura Martin's senior entertainment analyst at Needham. I
don't know, like, hello, what's being cheered here? You know,
(16:55):
sometimes cutting your way to profit and cutting your way
into a good financial positions not the most exciting story.
What is the Laura Martin main takeaway?
Speaker 10 (17:05):
Well, the Laura Martin main takeaway was I thought they
left more questions unanswered than they answered. So I think
one of the big questions is they just did an
affiliated transaction with Oracle, which for Enterprise Software, which is
the dad's company. So now you can, through pricing, move
money between these two public companies. That sort of was weird.
(17:26):
And then also they said they're going to spend a
billion five on content and double their film slate from
seven films a year to fifteen films a year starting
in twenty twenty six. And the problem with that is
the sky Dance track record is one theatrical release a year,
so so going to five fifteen means not only are
you spending the money on the negative cost, but now
you're going to spend about one hundred million each marketing,
(17:48):
which all just sounds like an awful lot of money
that you're spending in the near term, which is a
tax on public shareholders before you get the return. It
takes about three years to release a movie between green
lining and release, which means you have a couple of
investment years ahead of you, which doesn't sound like you know,
so we're going to stay on the sidelines here. In
terms of the shares.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
I want to go back to that relationship between Oracle
and the affiliated transaction that you mention, implying that the
value can be transferred between the two public companies. How
much is that help if we're thinking about the shar
scale of money David Ellison needs perhaps from Larry Edison
to keep on buying in WBD assets, or how much
(18:30):
is it a concern just in what are you actually
buying an entertainment company here or a tech an AI
infrastructure bet so.
Speaker 10 (18:37):
I think that is one of the differentiated things they're
saying is they're saying that our content storytelling is complementary
to our tech stack, and our tech stack needs investment
because Paramount, the old Paramount sort of starved it. So
we p Sky are going to invest in the tech stack.
So from a fundamental point of view, they're going to
try to marry storytelling with Jenai tech, which is sort
(19:01):
of a cool messaging although expensive in the near term.
I would say the oracle point was just a new
piece of information we got, having nothing to do with
the Warner Brothers. Like if the dad writes a seventy
billion dollar check to Warner Brothers, like you know, that's
a bigger deal than a contract might be several million
a year. So it was just an affiliated transaction that
(19:24):
I just would really like to see the pricing on
when they have to disclose it in a ten K.
But this's just a new piece of information. I think
the big issue is you don't know what you're buying here.
Are you buying a sixteen billion dollar subscale Paramount sky
Dance or are you buying a Are they going to
use money to make a seventy billion dollar acquisition of
all of Warner Brothers and then that's a hundred that's
(19:47):
round numbers, one hundred billion dollars scaled player with bigger
everything including studios. So then you wouldn't have to double
the films because Warner Brothers got fifteen by itself already.
So I think they might be justifying of warn Brother's
bid in some ways with some of their cost estimates.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
Here, Laura, very quick pivot here.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
You just heard the cool weave interview, you published your
research on hyperscale capex.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
Just a quick reaction to what you heard.
Speaker 10 (20:14):
Yeah, So, I mean, I think one of the big
biggest question we get is are the hyperscaler spending too
much money on infrastructure? And we published a note this
morning showing that the JENAI implementations at Amazon, Meta, and
Alphabet are accelerating their revenue growth and cutting their operating costs.
So they're getting margin expansion by using generative AI tools,
(20:37):
which gives them the confidence to invest in these infrastructure
plays to then sell to third parties those same capabilities
to lower costs and drive faster product innovation for the
rest of the US economy. So I actually think that
the biggest funders of generative AI infrastructure are seeing the
(20:58):
biggest benefits already in their own businesses.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Laur Martin on optimistic mode for the end.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
We really appreciate it always from Needham, keep coming back,
thank you.
Speaker 11 (21:08):
The valuations don't look crazy, but they do if there's nervousness.
Are on the growth story in and that's why I
think the AI story, of which we do remain bullish,
and we do think that there is a lot further
to go, it is likely to be a volatile ride.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
That was Black Rocks Helen Jewels discussing the nervousness we're
seeing in AI stocks right now.
Speaker 5 (21:27):
You can see that in nvideo and you can see
it in core Wave.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
As we've been discussing all morning, the risks aren't only
about lack of growth. Bloomberg opinion columnist Chris Bryant, writing
about that there's a quote a danger of depreciation tsunami,
links to the short lifespan of AI chips. His piece
focuses on AI investors ignoring warnings from short seller Michael Berry.
You can check that out on the Bloomberg terminal or
(21:51):
dot com carac.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Now, though, ed, it's time for talking tech, and first up,
Microsoft is planning to build a ten billion dollar AI
data center the Portuguese coast.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
He's working with start.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Campus, the Portuguese developer, and British startup Ndscale, one of
Microsoft's biggest European investments this year. Plus, Intel's chief technology
and AI officer Sajin Kati has left to join Open Ai,
where he'll be working on the.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
Startups infrastructure efforts.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Back in Intel, well CEO Lit Tan will take over
Catty's role and reports on another major departure, Meta is
set to lose its chief AI scientist, Jan Kuhn.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
According to Financial Times.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Lacun is reportedly leaving to launch his own style up,
focusing on what he calls world models, as in early
talks with investors to raise funds.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech if you're just joining us.
Our top stories are coll Weave and Nvidio. In video
down three percent, SoftBank is selling out of the entirety
of it's almost six billion dollar steak in the company
because it needs cash to finance his other AI ventures.
The street not really seeing this as a concern about
in video itself, but in aggregate taken with cor Weave's
(23:02):
almost fourteen percent drop, there are some jitters in the market.
Corweave is down after just slightly trimming it's outlook for
sales in twenty twenty five because of a delay on
a specific data center project that delayed trimbutable to a
third party. And in an interview of the CEO earlier
in the program, we didn't really get any answers on
who the customer impact it is. But with time and
(23:23):
with scale, such supply issues will go away. The market
right now not buying it.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Kra they're not, and let's stick in with the fact
that the market's not buying it. Bloomberg Gecrity's reporter comm
and Rhyinikey is here with us and it's interesting the
jitters around AI of late have been around an AI
bubble and demand concern but ultimately these are supply side issues.
Constraints for cor Weave, maybe the cash constraints for Softbag
and needings sell off in video.
Speaker 12 (23:47):
Yeah, it's really interesting how this has shifted really from
the dip buying that we saw yesterday the drove and
video up Corey we think was also up before the
Bell before it reported its results, and now we're seeing
really any concern on I their side, AI bubble or
supply here is really weighing on these shares. I think
as the AI theme just continues to get stretched, investors
(24:08):
are nervous and they're really really ready to sell at
kind of any moment, this especially coming before in video
results next week. Obviously the whole market really looks ahead
to that, but shares going down into in video results
is a little bit different than what we usually.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
See, right Covin, you made a really good point, and
I'm going to bring up a chart to illustrate it.
Yesterday and Vidia jumped almost six percent, which was its
biggest jump since early April.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
So a drop off of.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Three percent or more in the session taken into account
with the newsflow, give that context. Generally speaking, though, what
is the sentiment of the investors that we're speaking to
right now? Are they still like mega bullish on this
long term trend that they think will just carry on
and keep going.
Speaker 12 (24:52):
Yeah, that's a really great question. I think people are
very split. But I hear a lot of people that
are still very bullish on the long term trend and
even say that some selling now or a little shakeout
in the market would be pretty healthy. I mean, valuations
are very stretched. We've we're three years into a bull run.
These are some of the biggest stocks in the overall markets.
That makes sense that they've drag down the entire index,
(25:13):
so a little bit of a shakeout here wouldn't be
a huge concern. Obviously, this is really overlaid though, with
the fact that people are really talking about an AI bubble,
and so I think any selling in any of these stocks,
even you know, at the end of the year when
people are sort of looking to lock in performance lock
in gains it, you know, sparks more conversation around this
entire debate about an AI bubble.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Bloombos come and rhyanikay, thank you very much. Meanwhile, shares
of Nokia and Ericsson close higher in European trading. Sources
say the European Commission is weighing steps to push EU
members to phase out Huawei and Zte gear from telecom
networks amid security concerns. More let's get out to Bloomberg's
(25:55):
Illn Deutsch who joins us with the reporting. This is
timely and this is very interesting. What do we learn
in the course of reporting about how serious this move
is to push Huawei out of the market, That it
is very strong in in Europe.
Speaker 13 (26:10):
Yeah, I think it's actually really important to note. People
do not realize that there's still so much Huawei Kit
in various EU countries infrastructures, and the European Commission for
years has wanted to push U countries to stop using
this technology across their networks.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
They have really failed to do so.
Speaker 13 (26:28):
And the new Commission that came in two years ago,
they're doing a new push. They're going to try to
get different EU countries to push out force out Huawei
and ZTE. Now I cannot orderstate how difficult this is
going to be. Like I said, the previous Commission tried
to do this and they did not have the political backing.
Things like critical infrastructure, are things like national security. These
(26:48):
are left up to the member states of the EU.
So essentially what has to happen is these countries will
have to come together and say yes, actually we're going
to hand over that power to Brussels, to the European
Commission to make that reality. That is a tough pill
for a lot of countries to swallow.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Countries such as in your piecing make clear Spain, Greece,
which have remained relatively dependent interestingly UK. We know that
they've been pulling away for long time, banned any Huawei infrastructure,
similar with Sweden, so it can be done. It's interesting
that Chinas sort of tried to point out that it
slowed those nations down there.
Speaker 13 (27:21):
Yeah, it's a great point, Kawlin, because you know a
lot of the operators and independent analysis has been done
to show that actually by forcing a strip out of
Huawei from the UK networks, that delayed.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Five year roll by up to two years.
Speaker 13 (27:33):
This is a very costly ambition from certain countries if
they want to go ahead with this kind of push.
Not only does it delay possible you know, technology development,
it also comes at a great cost to the operators.
So if you look at Germany, for example, some people
in the government are examining ways that. Okay, if they
were to try to force Huawei and ct out of
their networks, could they compensate operators not Obviously would soften
(27:55):
the blow for a lot of these operators, but this
would commit a great cost then to governments.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
If not readers.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Jinaen Deutsch's great read, we urge people to go take
a read of it, thank you very much. Indeed, let's
take a look at crypto more broadly right now, because
we want to put it into the world a bitcoin.
It's too seeing some risk a version selling. Today we're
off by two percent one hundred and three thousand. Remember
it remains below its moving average targets, so one hundred
day moving average for example, at one hundred and ten thousand.
(28:22):
It remains trading below that. People fearful they won't be
seeing any sort of breakout. We're seeing Gemini space station
though Gemini, of course crypto Exchange went public recently off
by fifteen percent. That's after its earnings just showed that
perhaps they're not managing to ramp into any sort of
profitability as soon as people have maybe hoped. Let's bring
in Blomberg senior crypto rewarter Olga Karaf, who can dig
into the Gemini story because they were a beneficiary of
(28:46):
the changes in regulation in the United States.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
But why did it underwhelm on the quart of just reporting.
Speaker 14 (28:53):
So, like you said, the Winkle West twins that founded Gemini,
they have been very strong supporters of President Trump and
a lot of crypto companies with public this year as
we've seen sort of deregulation and more favorable regulatory environment
(29:15):
towards the industry. But the fact of the matter is
that the company, Gemini, is unprofitable and some analysts basically
don't expect it to become profitable until two or three
years from now. And what we've seen in this quarter
is that the losses widened partially because of this ideolic
(29:36):
related expenses and marketing expenses. But people are wondering, sort of,
what about profitability, when is that going to come?
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Alger It's good to see Dan Chen, the CFO, talked
about this the expenses issue and it being strategic for
those that have never come across Gemini. What's the business
model on paper? Just explain the basics of how it
supposed to function, because then that will make the loss
probably more digestible.
Speaker 14 (30:06):
Sure, so it's a crypto exchange, So their biggest rival
is coinbase here in the US, and essentially they make
their money about half of the money off of trading
fees as people trade bitcoin, ether and other cryptocurrencies. And
then they also have other businesses such as you know,
(30:30):
their credit cards have actually been on a roll and
they've been able to grab a lot of new users
through credit cards that essentially allow you to earn crypto
rewards as you spend money. They also have a custody
business and some other.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Businesses looms, Olga grief, Thank you very much. Now coming
up on the program, Ali Barber's Singles Day is underway
and this year AI isn't an option for shopping.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
We got more on that. Next, this is Bloodbag Tech.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
China Singles Day.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
It is underway now in its seventeenth year, but shifting
consumer habits and he fears price war. They've dourned the
one day shopping blitz into a weeks long campaign. Bloomberg
TV's chief North Asia correspondent Stephen Engel really examines China's
involving consumption trends amid a tougher economy.
Speaker 15 (31:34):
Influencer peddling is all the rage in China online, of course,
but now more than ever before on the actual trade
fair floor as well, where rapid fire hawking of product
over multiple mobile phones direct to China's billion plus consumers
has never been this well in your face.
Speaker 5 (31:54):
I mean, I don't know how they talk so much.
Speaker 15 (31:56):
Everything you possibly need to know about Vietnamese and other
products from overseas doesn't matter if it's New Zealand milk
powder and ice cream, or Italian cleaning supplies complete with
a Mandarin speaking European oh your bow mouth. They're all
competing for Chinese cyber shoppers. In a market where around
forty percent of all retail sales are now done online.
Speaker 8 (32:19):
A single days eleven eleven is huge.
Speaker 14 (32:22):
We have a strong presence on online platform and we
have a strong focus on gen Z.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
I know think as they had another few more weeks Togo,
but so far the result has been very, very encouraging.
Speaker 15 (32:33):
Online shopping in China is growing at three times the
pace of traditional retail, with many brick and mortar outlets
feeling that pain. CPI did pick up slightly in October,
but overall retail spending is expected to have slowed again
as households hold on to savings amid economic uncertainty. Add
to that are lingering worries importers and exporters here feel
(32:57):
about the fragile trade trups with the United States.
Speaker 16 (33:00):
High terriffs are hurting everybody, hurting both sides. One of
the things that as businesses we do hope is that
there is longer than a fourteen month detent, shall we say,
but that there is some general baseline of the relationship.
These are areas we're going to trade in. These are
areas that are no go. This is kind of a
gray area where we'll keep negotiating on because that would
help us all to your point, really understand what we
(33:22):
can move forward. And if I do want to have
a five year contract with an American supplier, I know,
no matter what, I'm going to get that product.
Speaker 9 (33:28):
I think it's been critically important that we have clarity.
Speaker 15 (33:32):
US wine experts to China this year were down seventy
seven percent in the seven months through July from a
year ago, with Chinese tariffs and taxes combined amounting to
about seventy five percent on American wine, and yet Barrows
is cautiously optimistic for recovery as the truce has kept
tariffs from escalating further.
Speaker 9 (33:51):
It was a very very positive development that they came
up with an actual number that's going to be in
place for the next fourteen months, because before that, I
think a lot of importers weren't so upset about the tariff.
It's they didn't know what it was going to be,
and so now we know what it's going to be,
at least through the end of December of twenty twenty six,
(34:13):
and I'm hoping that that brings some normalcyback into the process.
Speaker 15 (34:18):
It's an endurance game shared in some respect by the
many influencers in nearby booths to keep talking, to keep
the parties on the other end engaged. Steven Angel, Bloomberg
News Gender.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
We stay with Single's Day this year if Ali Barber
artificial intelligence takes center stage as the company pushes out
AI driven search results. Deborah wind Swig, Coresite Research CEO says,
quote winners going forward up brands investing in AI driven personalization.
The retail playbook now blends tech trust and instant gratification commerce.
(34:54):
Deborah whine six joins us now Deborah, that report from
Steven Adam Mainland China fascinating learning about sort of the
scale of the event. But will zero in on Ali
Barber and where AI is or isn't making the difference.
What's your assessment about where they stand in that market,
which he just outlined is pretty chaotic at the moment.
Speaker 17 (35:17):
Well, first, thanks for having me on. Second, as we
look at Ali Baba specifically, I would say that last
year they were dipping their tone in the water and
this year, they're in kind of up to their thigh
as it relates to AI and the shopping experience. So
starting at the very beginning all the way through there
(35:38):
or kind of the PDPs or the information behind all
of the images on the website to what you've bought previously,
is that they serve up products you are more likely
to purchase. But it's all EI driven and it's highly
personalized in a very short period of time, so that
return rates are dropping, which is a positive because you're
(35:58):
buying more of what you want, and it's also much
easier to do the research you need and that you
want to do in order to find the perfect gift
for others or for yourself.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Debra, we actually had some headlines how to China Cross
since we came on air. Shao Me's single day sales
exceed twenty nine billion yu want, which if my maths correct,
is just slightly above four billion US dollars. That show me,
what do you make of that number and put show
Me's success in singles day into context or what you
just told us about Ali Baba.
Speaker 17 (36:31):
Yeah, we've continued to hear from a lot of Western
brands that their sales are exceeding expectations, and I think
what they're learning from that is to think about how
to bring some of those learnings back to the US.
But this idea that the consumer can find and buy,
and when you think about like show me right, this
(36:51):
idea that the consumer and this was actually one of
the probably key areas of interest is that they call
them like AI toys, but like AI toys have been
one of the hottest categories, that and beauty, and so
the Shami numbers I would say probably are a little
higher than we would have expected, but that's the trend
(37:13):
that we're seeing, and you know, we believe that'll continue
to strengthen.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Chaomi makes AI toys on wheels, cars, but also ones
that you have in your hand. How much you seeing
at the moment the luxury perspective though, because Shami has
been on the hills of a tesla and everyone's thinking
about the amount of market share that these local domestic
players are now taking the world of ev and of
course phones, but relatively luxurious products to be spending on.
(37:38):
Where do you see just general consumer appetite right now?
Speaker 17 (37:42):
That's a great question and we've done a lot of
research on this. So what we're starting to see is
a I would say, a strengthening at the high end,
But when it comes to let's say basic essentials. Going
back to this idea of research and how much easier
it is to find product. Consumers are i would say,
being increasingly frugal on everyday necessities and then looking to
(38:05):
treat themselves. So I would say AI is helping them
get smarter. But we are i'd say, probably earlier than
many people expected. We are starting to see a strengthening
in the high end.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
What are they buying in terms of AI wearables? And
they're like, I'm seeing oring and ordering. There's lots of
new cove competises on the market here in the United States,
but I can only imagine the raft of options you
got to purchase over in China right now.
Speaker 17 (38:28):
I mean, we're seeing really interesting things on the wearable side,
like bracelets and pins and whatnot. Other kind of like
even health sensing, body sensing. Can you find your your
mate depending on right the you know you're you're kind
of the electromagnetic field that you're like. It's it's really
really interesting in terms of how it really is. They're
(38:52):
toys to make your life more fun. But also better
and I think going back to this idea around data
from a healthcare perspective, that's it increasingly important and we're
seeing it drive improved results for consumers as well.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
The data sets that you're tracking, even from this this
year's event and prior years, if you've got any assessment
of like the investment these companies have to make to
get a payoff, like how committed they are to winning,
what you've outlined very clearly is a bit of a
scramble to get consumers who are making very conscious, proactive
(39:29):
spending choices.
Speaker 17 (39:32):
So therein lies the that is like the question of
the day, and one of the biggest differences between the
Western consumer and the Chinese consumer is you know this
isn't like you know you're clipping coupons, Well, I guess
you're clipping them, but digital And as we're seeing it
go into the end of the double even shopping season,
(39:52):
how the couponing, right, it goes back to it's adjusting
in real time. So if retailers and brands aren't seeing
the desired outcomes, they're able to change it in real time. Right.
These aren't like marketing plans built out six twelve eighteen
weeks ahead of time, and therein is why I think
we're going to see a much stronger double eleven season
(40:12):
than we have in the past. And those retailers like
Lululemon is in you know, the minds of the Chinese consumers.
That's the local brand because they've really embraced this and
they did have to invest of course early on, but
now they're reaping the rewards of that investment. And so
that's like Lululna and Loreal. Those are some just great
examples of brands right, so European brand and US brand
(40:34):
or Nadian brand technically North American brand of companies who
have invested and as a result they're seeing outsize rewards.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Instant gratification. Commerce is the line on your note. We
really appreciate it. Thank you, Debrah Weinswig for joining us.
Of course, like research coming up, Oracle co founder Larry
Ellison gets more employees on his supervision off to the
company CEO swap.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
We'll discuss what that entails next. This is Broom, the
tech
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.