November 26, 2025 • 44 mins
Bloomberg’s Tim Stenovec discusses Dell's increased outlook for AI server shipments and HP’s plans for job cuts. Plus, Warner Brothers Discovery is asking bidders for sweetened offers as it explores options for a sale. And Nvidia is in focus as questions about competition in the AI chip market grow.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is a
lie from coast to coast, with Caroline Hide in New
York and Ed Ludlow in San Francisco.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. We zero in on
tech earnings with Dell raising its AI servership and outlook
well HP announces job cuts, plus Warner Brothers Discovery asking
bidders for sweetened offers by December first as it explores
options for a sale, and Nvidia in focus is Doubts
over the company's AI chip dominance are growing. I'm Jim
(00:43):
Centeveec in New York in for Caroline Hide and Ed Ludlow.
Let's get a check on markets right now. Ustocks advancing
as expectations for an interest rate cut at the fed's
next meeting are helping to fuel gains before the Thanksgiving break.
NAZAC one hundred up right now and look at the
last three days of four percent. This after both the
S and P five hundred and NAZAC on hundred moved
(01:04):
away from their last record highs in late October.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
The NAZAK one hundred.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Down about let's say, three point six percent from that
all time high. The s and P five hundred, though
down just a little over one percent. We're also looking
at tech earnings with Dell and HP. Dell raising its
annual projections for the AI server market thanks to sustain
demand for machines needed in the current data boom. Meanwhile,
HP stock under pressure down two point two percent right now.
(01:30):
The company now it's four thousand to six thousand job
cuts over the next couple of years by using more
AI tools. For more on HP and Dell, let's bring
in Bloomberg's and Dina Bastina joins us here in New York.
I want to start with HP. Four thousand to six
thousand jobs sounds like a lot. And indeed, if we
go to the six thousand sound it's like a ten
percent of.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
The company's workforce.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
But that's through twenty twenty eight fiscal years, so we're
a few years away from that. And if it's AI
that they're going to replace these people with, AI can
change a lot between.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Now and then.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Sure, And to be clear, each did a similar magnitude
job cut over the last three years.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
They just finished it.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
They have these kind of periodic efficiency plans. I guess
what's new about this one is the idea is that
they are going to use AI tools and models to
do things like product development, customer customer service sales, and
that's where you're getting these job cuts. But at the
same time, even though they're going to be saving money
(02:24):
that way, they said they actually took they actually came
in below on their guide for next year for fiscal
fiscal year profit and that was because of a completely
different issue around memory price increases. So you had both
you have these job cuts and it's not you know,
making the bottom line look where people expected it would
come in.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Well, speaking of those price increases, that also hitting Dell,
So let's let's talk a little bit about Dell. Dell
is contending with despite strong demand, how is it going
to make its AI server business more profitable.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
So the AI server business, and that's basically since I
know you're going to be talking about GPUs in a minute,
are the servers that have GPUs that go into these
AI data centers, and the demand for them has been
very high for Dell and other makers. Of the problem
is that in order to get some of these deals
and in order to deploy some of those servers, Dell
was basically incurring more significant costs. What they're trying to
(03:18):
do now is pull back from that a little bit
to widen the profit margin in that business. They've they
succeeded in the last quarter, they told me, because they
were able to serve a more diverse group of customers,
so some of those were a better, more profitable sets
of deals.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
I think these rising costs are going to be the
same throughout the next.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Year as well.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
You know, always good to see you, Welcome back to
New York, Happy Thanksgiving as well. Well, let's bring in
now in talking video because in video shares over the
last five days taking a hit down more than three percent.
The stock facing pressures as AI Chip rivals gained ground,
leaving investors wondering if it's dominance can be sustained. Bloomberg's
Ryan Vistelica joins us for more So, Ryan, I think
(03:57):
the big question that investors have after seeing what happened
with Alphabet in this report in the information earlier this week,
is can Googles TPUs actually compete with the GPUs from Nvidia?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
What are you hearing?
Speaker 5 (04:11):
Hey, good morning, Thanks for having me. So I would
say that while there are a lot of differences between
Innvidia's chips and alphabets. Alphabets are designed for one specific purpose,
which is working with AI workloads in the cloud, which
is really the dominant use case for a lot of
the AI infrastructure that's being done right now. So there
is certainly a very big market for the TPU chips,
(04:35):
as we saw with the Anthropic deal that was announced
a couple of weeks ago and with this report with Meta,
so that opens up potentially a huge new market for Alphabet,
and it does put in Vidia's market share under a
little bit of pressure. Now, this is still very early
days and it's not like Alphabet is out there selling
(04:56):
chips to people in the same way that Nvidia is,
but certainly people are reassessing what our market share is
going to look like over the coming years. And if
in Videas is a lot smaller than previously expected, what
does that mean for the stock? What does that mean
for the valuation? What does that mean for its expected
growth rates going forward?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, I mean the analyst community, though at this point
even investors may be a little concerned, but the analyst community,
they've still got buys on this stock. I mean, there's
only one analyst who's tracked by Bloomberg. Jay Goldberg over
at Seaport, who has a sell on in Vidia.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Is he changing his tune? Are these analysts changing their tune?
Speaker 6 (05:34):
No?
Speaker 5 (05:34):
In fact, I spoke with him yesterday and he said
he is more negative on Nvidia now than he was
a couple of weeks ago. I would say that, you know,
the new concerns about you know, custom silicon and new
rising competition for in VideA. This comes at a time
when people are increasingly questioning the AI trade. There is
a lot of debate right now about the amount of
spending going on, how durable is this going to be,
(05:57):
how sustainable, what kind of returns our companies see on this?
And if they're not seeing big returns on this investment,
are is a going to pull back on their AI
spending going forward? And VideA is really at the heart
of a lot of AI debate right now. And then
you add in this new one where what does their
market share look like? What about competition? That is just
another reason for people to be skeptical. Although analysts so
(06:20):
far are holding firm and remain pretty positive.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah, in Vidia shares up thirty two percent over the
last year, Bloomberg's Ryan Vistellica. Happy Thanksgiving, Ryan, Thanks for
joining us. Well, let's get more on the wider tech markets.
Nancy Tangler, CEO and CIO of Laffer Tangler Investment. She
says there's more room to run for AI stocks, writing quote,
since we are in the early stages of the AI
adoption and investment cycle, we believe the providers of the technology,
(06:45):
the picks and shovels, will continue to produce enviable earnings growth.
Nancy joins us, Now, what's a more promising pick and
or shovel?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Is it alphabet or is it in video? Nancy?
Speaker 7 (06:59):
Thanks, you're having tim You know, I'm actually going to
go We own them both, and I'm going to go
with Nvidia. And the reason for that is I think
analysts are forgetting our investors are not focusing on Kuda,
which is the software system that developers use around the
Nvidia chips, Blackwell and then soon to be Reuben and
(07:21):
I think it's analogous to Apple and the App Store.
So you know, it was just a handset company when
we were buying it. I was told that every time
I talked about it on the air, but it was
really the app store and services that we were buying,
and this I think is analogous to that. If they lose,
you know, if they go from eighty percent to seventy
nine percent market share, I can live with that because
(07:42):
I think the earnings growth is going to continue.
Speaker 8 (07:44):
And let'sten forget.
Speaker 7 (07:45):
AMD is in the wings and we also own that
and Broadcom which.
Speaker 8 (07:50):
Is developing the TPUs.
Speaker 7 (07:51):
So I think there's a lot of ways to make
money in this trade.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
At what point do we move meond the so called
picks and shovels of the AI trade and start to
see the increase in i don't know efficiency, the increase
in productivity in non technology companies.
Speaker 7 (08:09):
So we listened to the company's tim and let me
give you one great example. We've talked about it before,
but Walmart is our poster child of our investing theme,
which is an old economy company that is pivoted to
the new technologies and is now going to be listed
on the NASDAK lets. Remember, so they had six percent
revenue growth, pretty good for Walmart, but twenty seven percent
in e commerce That was also interesting to me. But
(08:32):
what really got my attention was that delivery speeds were
thirty five percent of digital orders are arriving in under
three hours. They're also using automation in the fulfillment center,
so fifty percent of their orders are fulfilled automatically via robot.
We own the company that did all that for them, Symbotic,
(08:55):
So that's a second or maybe even third derivative player
in AI.
Speaker 8 (09:00):
So I think it's broadening out. We're hearing it from
all across.
Speaker 7 (09:04):
You know, Raytheon talked about how they were utilizing AI
in order to improve supply supply log.
Speaker 9 (09:11):
Jams that's a stock we own, and TGLR, all of
these we own there actually, So I think it's important
to start listening to the companies paying attention to who's
seeing margin expansion, and we're definitely seeing it at the
company level.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Nancy.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
If we were talking a week ago, I think we'd
have started our conversation focused on the idea of a bubble,
maybe concerns about CAPEX spending, the handwringing that we saw
last week over some of these valuations that has seemed
to receded received just a little bit this week. But
you've been through multiple cycles and I'm wondering how you
(09:45):
view the whole AI bubble talk right now, compared to
let's say, the tech boom of the late nineties and
bust as well.
Speaker 10 (09:53):
Well.
Speaker 7 (09:53):
I wish I was as clever as ed Yar Danny
because he coined this phrase too, But I wrote a
piece called the bubble and Bubble Talk.
Speaker 8 (10:00):
I think it's important to note a couple of things.
Speaker 7 (10:02):
In the nineties, from ninety six to two thousand, the
growth stocks that whose valuations were skyrocketing were actually experiencing
contracting earnings.
Speaker 8 (10:11):
We're not seeing that now. Growth. The growth stocks in.
Speaker 7 (10:14):
This particular technological revolution are experiencing about twenty percent growth
on average. Cap X was also something that was healthy
and then accelerated through the entire decade. We're just now
starting to see that ramp up in the last couple
of years.
Speaker 8 (10:31):
So I think it's important.
Speaker 7 (10:33):
And then these companies have fortress balance sheets and all this.
I don't want to say I am going to say
nonsense around Oracle. I think it's important to remember that
this is a company that's always had a ton of debt.
Debt to equity was four hundred and twenty seven percent
at the end of the quarter. That's down from seven
hundred and eighty percent year over year. This is all
(10:53):
before they issued the eighteen billion dollars in debt for
the open Ai data center build out. That this company
has a history of using debt. But the PPE is
up one hundred and thirty percent year over year, while
debt is only up nine So debt to equity will decline.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
So you're not concerned at all about the price of
five year CDSS for Oracle rising to the highest going
back to October twenty twenty two. That's not concerning you.
Speaker 11 (11:23):
It is.
Speaker 8 (11:24):
It's a par trade though.
Speaker 7 (11:25):
What concerns me more is the concentration in the market
around open Ai, and I think that has to sort
itself out now. Such in a della would tell you
that data centers are fungible. If we don't use it
for this, we'll use it for that, and I think
that's certainly true. But I am concerned about the SPEN.
I mean, that's a company with a burn rate, right
(11:46):
open Ai ten billion revenues and trillions and spend. Oracle
has other businesses they can change shift directions use data
center for cloud computing.
Speaker 8 (11:57):
I don't like the par trade, but.
Speaker 7 (11:58):
I think we were added to it a couple of
days ago and I think I think from here we're
going to be talking about fundamentals instead of it became
the post, it became the narrative stock for this.
Speaker 8 (12:10):
This bubble is overdone. We're not in a bubble.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, those September highs that we saw for Oracle, I
mean we're done significantly from those, but still up seven
percent over the last year.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
In about twenty percent so far this year.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Nancy Tangler of Laffer Tangler Investments always good to see
you happy Thanksgiving. Well, Uber is going to begin offering
driver list trips and we ride vehicles around parts of
Abu Dhabi. The new milestone follows the two companies first
launching a ride service with safety operators behind the wheel
almost a year ago. They intend to expand their driver
list vehicle operating territory at Abu Dhabi and extend their
(12:42):
partnership to Dubai soon. Well, coming up, holiday shopping season
is here and with it new online scams. We're going
to discuss what to look out for it how to
protect yourself next.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
This is Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Holiday shopping sales seem to start earlier and earlier, but
this year's Black Friday and Cyber Monday deals might not
be a steep. Bloomberg opinion columnist Andrea Felstaid has a
peace out, and she writes that tariffs will cause retailers
to offer smaller discounts. In the quest for deals, shoppers
may be tempted to turn to new websites or click
ads for deals that turn out to be scams. Teresa
(13:28):
Payton is former White House CIO and current CEO of
the cybersecurity firm Forderless Solutions.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
She joins us for more good to have you on
the program.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
You know, I'm always thinking that we're in this day
and age where it can easily become victims of fraud
or victims of scams. But why does it happen with
increased frequency during heavy shoppy seasons like Black Friday.
Speaker 12 (13:50):
Well, we're all busy and many of us are looking
for extra deals and extra bargains this year, like you
mentioned earlier, because of the tariffs, and with that, we're
getting bombarded on social media with things that look really
cool and hot, and we want to make sure we
get the deal, we get it quickly before they run out.
(14:10):
And don't forget, criminals and fraudsters now have AI as
a tool at their fingertips, and so it's making it
very cost effective for them to target you and me
while we do our holiday shop.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Okay, so I want to get to what we can
do to protect ourselves. But before we do that, Teresa,
how are they using AI to target us? What does
that look like? And how could that look differently than
the scams that we're used to.
Speaker 12 (14:30):
Yeah, so they're basically reverse engineering websites that you or
I might go to, the legitimate websites, and then they're
doing things like a play on the name and then
setting up imposter social media accounts and basically jumping.
Speaker 10 (14:46):
Into your feed.
Speaker 12 (14:46):
Then you follow this great deal and then the next
thing you know, you're buying from a scammer or a
fraudster and not from the actual website that you think
you're visiting. They're also spinning up businesses using bots to
actually give them them sells great reviews. So it all
looks like it's on the up and up, But just
a little bit of diligence and a little bit of research,
you'll be able to figure out and spot the scam
(15:09):
sites and the fraud sites pretty easily.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Okay, you mentioned diligence and research. You shared with our
team reputation checkers for websites. I'd never actually even heard
of these or used them before. Should these be part
of our diet when it comes to healthy shopping?
Speaker 12 (15:24):
Yeah, I love the fact that you brought this up
because I personally use these websites, especially if I'm going
to a site I've never ordered from before. Even if
I have a friend or a relative tell me they've
used a site, so things like scam Advisor, you aurl, Void,
trust Pilot, and I will post these on my social
media accounts. These websites will actually tell you how old
(15:46):
the domain name is. It could be legitimately a brand
new business, or it might be a scamra frauds, you're
taking advantage of holidays.
Speaker 10 (15:55):
So it'll also.
Speaker 12 (15:55):
Tell you whether or not security companies or consumers reported
issues with these sites.
Speaker 10 (16:02):
And of course old school still rules.
Speaker 12 (16:05):
The Better Business Bureau is a great place to check
on a domain name as well.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Okay, so I think that for me, at least one
area that I always think of as a backstop is
the way I pay. And I'm only using credit cards
on these websites because I feel like if I have
an issue then I can just call my credit card
company and they can protect me. Are people using other
(16:29):
payment solutions that might not have that same level of protection.
Speaker 10 (16:33):
Yeah, this is the tough part, and I agree with you.
Speaker 12 (16:35):
I only use a credit card when I am shopping online.
I do not use my debit card. I don't use
gift cards to shop online. What's happening is a lot
of these scam sites and fraud sites will say things
like we only accept Venmo or zell, we only accept
gift cards, we only accept wire transfers. So they might say, well,
(16:58):
for this to work, we're international, we have to have
a wire transfer. These are red flags when a merchant
tells you they will only accept those form of payment
and they won't accept credit card. Chances are you're dealing
with a fraudster because they know the credit card companies
will actually come after them and shut them down, so
they want you to use these other forms of payment.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Other red flags maybe a price is too good to
be true.
Speaker 12 (17:23):
Yeah, So if you see things like seventy to ninety
percent off during the holiday season, that is typically a
red flag. Now, unless you're on sort of a household
name website that you navigated to on your own, you
didn't follow a link in social media, you didn't follow
link in an email or text.
Speaker 10 (17:42):
So if it's too good to be true, also look
at that domain name. When in doubt.
Speaker 12 (17:47):
There's a website called VirusTotal dot com. You can use
it for free. Copy and paste that website in there,
and it'll actually evaluate the URL and tell you whether
or not you might be dealing with the scam site.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Okay, Teresa, before we let you go, if you do
somehow become a victim of not necessarily a cyber attack,
but maybe an attack on your identity or some sort
of scam, what should be the first thing you do?
Speaker 12 (18:11):
Yeah, first thing you do is you want to call
your bank. So whatever payment method you used, you need
to lock down your life. The next thing to think
about is actually you can report it at the FBI,
to IC three dot gov and the FTC FTC dot gov.
But also there is a nonprofit resource that is free
to use called the Identity Resource Theft Center. It's a
(18:32):
great nonprofit. I've referred people there and they will actually
give you a checklist.
Speaker 10 (18:38):
You can talk to a real human.
Speaker 12 (18:39):
Being and work on getting your peace of mind and
your identity back.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Teresa, Payton, CEO of Forder Lists Solutions, thank you so
much for joining us.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Coming out, the.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
US face is a potential electricity crisis due to a
surge in demand to power AI data centers. We've got
the details. Next, this is Bloomberg Tech. Well, today we
(19:12):
take a look at America's power system. It was already
under stress even before the AI boom. Now with AI
data centers coming online, a new Schneider Electric analysis foresees
the US facing a potential electricity crisis. This is the
surgeon demand comes at odds with the reality of aged
and vulnerable grids. Bloomberg's ESG reporter Alistair Marsh joins us
(19:33):
from No More. Alistair, how does electricity crisis manifest in
the United States? Certainly higher bills as part of that,
but are we talking rolling blackouts here for many Americans?
Speaker 13 (19:46):
Well, essentially, the Schneider Electric data shows that the massive
amount of power demands to power demand in the US
has basically been flat for about two decades, and all
of a sudden with the advent of Aisle, the last
AI acceleration that we're seeing in the US, with the
billions of dollars of kpex being put to work and
the mass build out of data centers. You suddenly have
(20:07):
this surge in demand. Add to that increase electrification, add
to that onsurine of manufacturing, and you suddenly have this
sort of crisis moment where the energy infrastructure in the
US has not been invested in and not been built
out particularly aggressively for a period meets a very aggressive
build out of AI, and so we're going to reach,
(20:28):
according to the Schneider data, we're going to reach a
crunch point in about three years, in twenty twenty eight.
That's the moment they say that the supply available on
the system will not be able to will no longer
be able to meet demand unless we start eating into
emergency reserves of power which you are saved from moments
of extreme weather or cyber attacks and so forth, all
of which means that the grid is basically going to
(20:49):
become under increased strain and going to be increasingly vulnerable.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
You cover ESG for Bloomberg News. You're joining us from London.
I'm not going to make your wigh in on the
politics of infrastructure spending here in the United States, but
it's very political, like so much spending is is there
foreseeably a way that even if the US had the money,
they could reliably upgrade the grid's weak points with enough
(21:14):
in enough time to be ready for this surge.
Speaker 13 (21:18):
A short answer is no, I mean you're kind to
let me not weigh into the US politics, But there
is both a political issue here. I mean, you see
it with the recently power prices are on the ballot
in New Jersey, and they'll be increasingly on the ballot,
and that could turn against the AI build out if
there's a sort of political groundswell against that. But also
there's a geopolitical element here where the US is in
(21:41):
a race with China to be kind of the AI superpower,
and China has Why you could argue that the US
has the advantage in terms of tech and chips, actually
China has a structural advantage with cheaper, abundant power, and
that might be, according to some analysts, something that wins
out in the long run. And so what Schneider is
saying here to go back to actually answer your question
(22:03):
is that no, you can't fix us in the three
year period because you can't build enough generation and enough
transmission in that period because most of those projects will
take ten years to build. Therefore, you need to find
ways at the margin what are sometimes called grid enhancing technologies,
battery storage, micro grids, other things that can kind of
build out extra capacity to that don't require those large,
(22:26):
long infrastructure buildouts that just won't be ready in time.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Bloomberg's Alistair Marsh joining us from London. Alistair mentioned the
political implications of this. Do you check out Bloomberg Opinion
and Connorson had an interesting story just in the last
few days about what happened in Georgia. Hey, coming up next,
we're going to speak with CFR senior equity analyst Angela
Zeno as investors begin to question longevity of the AI trade.
This is Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. I'm
(23:04):
Tim Steneveek in New York in for Caroline Hide and
at Ludlow. Let's take a look at the markets. Checking
out the NASAQ one hundred slightly up on the day today,
hopes of a FED rate cut in the December meeting. Meanwhile,
also taking a look at alphabet in Nvidia. In Vidia
facing concerns that its market share and semis used in
AI computing is slipping following a report suggesting Google's AI
(23:26):
processors are gaining ground. Google down on the day one
point two percent, in Vidia higher by one point eight percent.
This comes as in video celebrated Google's achievement earlier today,
but also saying the chip makers still quote a generation
ahead of the industry. It's the only platform that runs
every AI model and does it everywhere computing is done.
This is a tweet from the Nvidia newsroom or a
(23:49):
post on acts I should say from the Nvidia newsroom.
Let's get more with Bloomberg Equities reporter Carmen Reinikey. Carmen
does seem like investors are starting to feel like Alphabet's
Google could be gaining when it comes to market share
in what Invidia.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Has absolutely ruled.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
But still the analyst community community at this point is
not really convinced.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
What are your sources telling you, Yeah, that's really true.
Speaker 6 (24:13):
I mean, I think in Nvidia is really still so dominant.
And that's what we're seeing from analysts.
Speaker 8 (24:18):
You know, even though.
Speaker 6 (24:18):
There's been sort of these questions about the AI trade
and you know, Google's chips coming in being more competition,
analysts have actually raised their estimates for Nvidia going forward.
Speaker 8 (24:29):
You know, it's last.
Speaker 6 (24:30):
Quarter was so good, had this huge revenue forecast, and
you know, we're seeing a little bit of a relief
rally in the shares today. It's gotten pretty beaten down,
but dip buyers are you know, starting to come back in.
Speaker 10 (24:41):
And then on the flip side.
Speaker 6 (24:42):
We're seeing you know, Google actually dip a little bit today. Now,
of course it was it's been at a record high,
so that's that's no surprise. But really, you know, in
Nvidia does seem to still remain on top, and it's
one that we're going to continue watching as really the
dominant player in the AI space.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Dominant player in the AI space. But in terms of
stock performance this year, Alphabet has just been remarkable, close
to seventy percent increase so far this year. In Vidia
up about thirty five percent. That's nothing to shake a
stick at. Also, Alphabet approaching a four trillion dollar marketcap.
We're in videos, you know, above four trillion dollars. Are
(25:18):
analysts more bullish on in video? Are they more bullish
when it comes to Alphabet?
Speaker 6 (25:24):
You know, I think analysts are really bullish across the
board on both companies. You know, they're so big and
they do so many things so well. But you know,
the market cap thing is really interesting. We're watching all
of those companies very closely. You know, it's always been
sort of Apple and in Vidia jockeying for the top spot,
you know, the biggest company in the world. But you know,
Google's really in the mix now, so it'll be really
(25:47):
interesting to see sort of where we end up this year.
You're right, Google's stock has done so well. I think
it's still the top performing stock in the meg seven,
really kind of taking over in Video's place there. But yeah, overall,
you know, so Wall Street is very bullish on these
on these stocks, and I think in Vidia still only
really has one bear on Wall Street, who just boosted
(26:09):
his estimates, you know, for the company's earnings going forward.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Jay Goldberg over at cpour Research that lonely in Vidia bear,
but he's sticking by his call. Bloomberg's harmon Ryanikey joining us.
Happy holidays, Carmen, appreciate you joining us today. Hey, let's
get more on the market movements with Angelo Zeno, senior
equity analyst at CFI Research. Angela, what do you make
of this sort of race between Alphabet and in Video
that we've seen play out over the last couple of days.
(26:33):
The narrative shift that hey, wait, a second Alphabet with
a ten year old product might actually have something that
could compete within Video's GPUs.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Do you buy it?
Speaker 8 (26:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 14 (26:43):
And thanks for having me, Tim. The way I look
at this is, listen, in Video's had the ninety percent
plus market share on the computer side right with their GPUs.
Our view the whole time was that they were going
to lose share anyway, and that custom silicon chips were
going to gain a bigger pe. So the pie A
and D eventually was going to have its share as
(27:04):
a second alternative to the GPU market. So this is
kind of playing out though the way we anticipated. It's
going to be a slow role, but ultimately, listen, I
do think there's a place for TPUs as well as
other customs silicon chips. I don't think you can necessarily
sleep on, you know, a company like Amazon. But you know,
it's interesting that the strategic pivot that potentially Alphabet is
(27:25):
looking at potentially you know, looking to sell those TPUs
to Meta and you know, to the extent that that's
true and to how quickly some of that scales up,
I think is a risk to the Invidia story. But again,
I mean, video will continue to be the dominant player
out there, and I think investors, you know, maybe it
shouldn't be looking too deep into the share fight and
(27:48):
kind of you know, can also consider the upside in
terms of the total addressable market opportunity here over the
next couple of years.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Well, it makes me think of the incredible and enviable
margins that Invidia has and it's data center bits, and
I'm wondering, okay, well, even if in Video still becomes
and remains the clear market leader, does it put margin
pressure on the company? Does the company have to come
out and say, okay, well we're not going to charge
as much for these GPUs because they're potentially, at least
for some customers there may be another option out there.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Does it put margin pressure on them?
Speaker 14 (28:19):
I think that's an interesting point. The way we look
at this actually is a little bit differently. I mean,
when we think about kind of these next gen offerings
that in Video is set to roll out, and we're
big believers that listen, in Vidia is the generation ahead.
They will continue to be you know, leaders in terms
of technology advancements. But as you roll out Ruben, and
Ruben doesn't really have kind of the step up function
(28:40):
you know to Blackwell the way Blackwell had relative to Hopper.
But you get to Ruben and then Ruben Ultra, You're
going to see some significant content growth here over the
next couple of years from a Nvidia in the data center.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
So that should continue to hold up data.
Speaker 14 (28:54):
Their revenue trajectory as well as you know, the margins
here for the company. So we're not necessary really concerned
about margins here. But that said, listen, if we get
to a point where you know, the whole debate between
supply demands starts to you know, even out and those
competitive pressures do start to intensify, then you have an issue.
It's not something we're really kind of concerned about here
(29:14):
over the next eighteen to twenty four months.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
So okay, so you know, in terms of not being
concerned in the near term, that makes sense. What about
the other side of the coin, which is the opportunity
that it presents for Alphabet Can they ramp up production
of these?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Can they can they.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Actually get these to customers quickly who they want them?
Speaker 14 (29:33):
Yeah, I mean, and to the extent that they you know,
they're looking at this strategic pivot I think, you know,
remains to be seen, but yeah, I mean, listen, it's
an opportunity for them. Again, I don't think they take
up a huge chunk of the market. I think it's
actually a bigger play, an opportunity for Broadcom, to be
honest with you, and as you kind of go into
twenty six and twenty seven, the accelerating growth that you're
(29:56):
going to see in their semiconductor business I think is
kind of a nic intriguing play alongside there their software offering,
where if you have any concerns about share loss from Nvidia,
take a look at Broadcom because that becomes a nice
interesting play on a company that we'll be taking market
share here on that customer silicon growth as they also
(30:16):
continue to broad in out their customer base outside of
just you know, Alphabet's TPUs to other customs silicon vendors.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Angela, if we were having a conversation last week, we'd
probably be talking about and we'd probably started the conversation
with equity evaluations, And I'm just wondering how you're looking
at valuations right now where there's been some talk about okay,
things are looking a little bit bubbly right now.
Speaker 14 (30:40):
You know, I actually feel much better about valuations today
than I did three four weeks ago, and it almost
kind of self corrected itself out right. So when you
look ahead of just you know, late October, look at valuations,
they were essentially where we were at the June twenty
four you know, tech highs, and essentially at twenty year highs,
So you kind of look, get what the market is
(31:00):
done here. We've actually had a better than expected Q
three earning season. On top of that, also we'll pull
back here on the tech side, that's really kind of
compressed multiples to now where you would expect multiples on
a forward basis to be here over the last five years.
So when you look at valuations, especially given the earnings
growth that we see over the next eighteen to twenty
(31:21):
four months, we actually think this is actually an enticing opportunity,
especially with some of those larger cap tech names. You
look at maybe some of the most reasonable valuations out there.
Meta and Nvidia really kind of stand out at this
point in time where I think they could be kind
of nice rebound plays on the sharp pullback they've.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Pad Hey, just twenty seconds angelo before we let you go.
We just had an interesting conversation with Alistair Marsh about
data centers and what could happen in the United States
to the electric grid and China actually taking a lead
as a result of infrastructure issues here. Just very briefly,
how could that reign in data center growth and development
here in the US if that were and is some
(32:00):
sort of boundary or barrier.
Speaker 14 (32:02):
Yeah, it's one of the biggest risks going into twenty
twenty six, the energy bottlenecks, and more so into twenty
seven and twenty eight, right as we start transforming and
changing the narrative from the bookings growth expectations to one
where it's also all about execution of these data center buildouts.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Luzino, Senior equity analyst at CFRI Research. Happy Thanksgiving, Thanks
so much for joining us Well. Mckensey cut about two
hundred global tech jobs in the past week as the
consulting firm joins Rivals and using AI to automate some positions,
and sources say the company is closely assessing what tasks
can be carried out by AI and isn't ruling out
(32:39):
additional reductions across different functions over the next two years
this as it ramps up use of the tech coming
up one our music settles a copyright lawsuit against AI startups,
So no more on that. Next this is Bloomberg Tech.
(33:06):
Warner Music Group and AI music creator Suno have settled
a copyright lawsuit and agreed on a new partnership in
creating music. Suno was accused by Warner Music and other
major record labels for using copyrighted material without compensating artists
or their companies. For the latest Bloomberg Music and podcast
reporter Ashley Carmen joins us now and for people aren't
for people to understand Warner Music in the music industry
(33:27):
and where publishers and labels fall in.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
But where do sooner fall into this?
Speaker 15 (33:31):
Well, that's the big question. So Suno and its competitor
Udio have really found a business in allowing people to
type in prompts and gift songs in return. And so
now the big question is is this competition for the
traditional record labels? Probably? Is this a tool for artists
human artists? Probably? And what does this actually mean for
the business? And so this deal is kind of a
(33:51):
landmark moment in that entire dialogue.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Is there like a historical corollary or parallel.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
We can draw here.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Is this like when Steve Jobs unbundled the album and
let us download one song for a ninety nine cents?
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Is it a bigger deal than that?
Speaker 15 (34:04):
People like to compare it to the Napster moment, where
this could really be a paradigm shift. Yeah, how people
create music, how they consume music, where they consume music,
where they create music. So it gets a lot of comparisons.
And I think, unlike that moment where the record labels
and Napster were really at odds for years and it
basically creted the entire music business. They want to start
making partnerships and actually have a hand in this business.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
What do artists think of this?
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Because in that moment, and I live through the Napster moment,
I mean, guilty is charged. Don't get me in trouble
for that. But artists were understandably really upset, and you know,
you had Lars Lrick on one side from Metallica.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
It was a really big deal. Where do artists fall
in this debate?
Speaker 15 (34:44):
Artists are using these tools in the studios. I go
to the studios and I say, do you use AI
and They're like, yeah, we do. But at the same time,
I think they don't want wholly AI generated songs to
come in and take market share away from human created works.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
But is there also this understanding that there wasn't then
that for our an artists to make money they need
to do more than just create the music.
Speaker 15 (35:03):
I mean, this is this is the thing, is that
business is shifting so much. Streaming brought the industry back
from piracy, but it also meant that now so many
people can upload their music, they don't need to go
through a distributor to be in retail stores. It means
they have to tour. It means they need to create merch.
It means they need to build these super fans to
keep that business going.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Bloomberg's actually Carmen joining us. Thanks so much, Ashley, Happy Thanksgiving.
Let's turn out a Warner Brothers Discovery stay on Media.
The company asking bidders for swedened offers by December. This
December first actually, as it explores options for a sale.
Bloomberg's media reporter Hannah Miller has been reporting on the
saga and she joins us. Now, So, Hannah, who are
the companies that are at play right now for these assets.
Speaker 16 (35:42):
Yeah, so we have Paramount, Comcasts and Netflix. They all
have some differences with their bids with the obstacles facing
them here. But those are the players going for Warner
Brothers Discoveries assets.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Do they all want the same assets or do they
want different assets?
Speaker 16 (35:59):
So Comcasts and net Flix they're going for streaming and
studios they want, you know, those big profit sectors for
Warner Brothers Discovery. Paramount wants the whole thing. There'll take
the cable networks too, even though we've seen so many
people cut the cord and shift from cable to streaming.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
From a regulatory perspective, is that a harder Is that
a harder barrier? Does it kind of not matter given
what we've seen from this administration and the way that
media has changed in recent years, because there could there
you know, CNN is part of that, and CNN and
CBS living side by side a network and cable when
it comes to news, that could be a challenge.
Speaker 16 (36:34):
Now, Yeah, it's a great question. It's something a lot
of investors are thinking about. With Paramount. We know that
the CEO, David Ellison, he's spoken about the positive relationship
that he has with President Trump, So that could help
smooth things over on a regulatory front. The thing with
Netflix is that there are questions about if both streaming
(36:56):
services were under Netflix, if HBO Max got added to Netflix,
would they dominate and have too much market share?
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Wow, I can't believe we're talking about streamers and antitrust.
That's kind of where we are in this world, Hannah,
before we let you go, David Allison is one David
we're thinking about. David Zaslov is another David that we're
thinking about over at Warner Brothers Discovery.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
What happens to him after this?
Speaker 16 (37:17):
Yeah, so the role he plays with whatever shakes out,
that is a big factor here. We know he's someone
who still wants to stay in the mix, and I
think a lot of the investors, the shareholders, they're all
thinking about what role Zazov will play after a deal.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Bloomberg's Hannah Miller. Hopefully she's not too busy during the
holidays staying on top of this deal. Appreciate you taking
the time. Well, coming up, we're going to talk to
the startup that's using AI to help restaurants identify ingredients
that could be allergens or restricted under some diets. It's
an issue restaurants chains from California soon won't be able
to ignore. This is Bloomberg Tech. Well, if any part
(38:07):
of your thanks Evin Jenner is being ordered or coming
from a restaurant, you might have had to ask about
the ingredient list to check any allergens for your guests.
It's an issue that goes far beyond Thanksgiving, with millions
of Americans with allergies or dietary restrictions struggling when they
go out to eat. Startup Fudini is aiming to solve
this problem with an AI tool to help restaurants thoroughly
and clearly label ingredients. Fudini COEO. Dylan McDonald joins us. Now, Dylan,
(38:32):
you've got a really interesting story. I think, like so
many startups, it comes from a place of necessity for
the founder. Talk to us a little bit about what
you've dealt with.
Speaker 17 (38:41):
Yeah, first, see Tim, thanks very much for having me.
Great to be here. And yeah, like you mentioned.
Speaker 11 (38:46):
I diagnosed celiac when I was ten years old and
so have a lot of personal experience navigating dining out
of home and ordering online while needing to know what's
in my food and just over a long period of time,
got more and more for it with how difficult it
was to get that information and mistakes and inaccuracies, and
decided to try and do something about it.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
So how can AI actually help restaurants do this? Because
you know, when you do look at a menu, when
you do talk to a server, I feel like in
this day and age, they have a good understanding of
at least some of the most common allergies like gluten
for example, and people who have celiac. So what does
AI allow them to take a step further?
Speaker 3 (39:25):
How does it do that?
Speaker 17 (39:27):
Yeah, it's a fair point. I think you're right.
Speaker 11 (39:28):
I think a lot of restaurants have got on top
of gluten free, vegan, vegetarian, the main ones. But there's
one hundred and seventy three million Americans who have some
form of food energy or dietry requirement, and the allergens
go far beyond just you know, gluten and vegan. And
so what we do is we help restaurants by ingesting
their menu information, the recipe information, and the product information,
(39:50):
and we have trained large anguage models to break those
down to the ingredient level, tag them with the correct
allergen and dietary requirements and then we're able to to
power a personalized menu solution whereby consumers can see exactly
what they can and can't eat on the menu depending
on their personal requirements.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
You have a background in law, your former corporate attorney,
and you know, I wonder about the liability element here.
You know, mistakes happen, mistakes get made, AI lms hallucinate. Well,
how do you protect around that and how do you
make sure that even if a food says it doesn't
have something, it doesn't become contaminated somewhere with that ingredient process.
Speaker 17 (40:27):
Yeah, it's a great question. Firstly, on hallucinations.
Speaker 11 (40:30):
Our technology never guesses if there is you know, it's
based on structured ingredient and supplier data.
Speaker 17 (40:37):
If there's ever a scenario where it is ensure, it.
Speaker 11 (40:40):
Will tag in the back end for us that it's
there's an uncertainty and our dietitian team will come in
over the top and do QA and manually intervene and
as you know, they make inputs into the system, the
LLM learns, it gets smarter and smarter over time. From
a legal liability standpoint, we would argue that not having
any documentation on our ergens is a much higher risk
(41:02):
because right now you have a consumer, a member of
staff who's likely not trained on all the ingredients and
all the allergens and all the menu items, and they're
the line of protection for the restaurant between the consumer
and a potentially life threatening a life threatening incident. And
fifty four percent of all allergic reactions and restaurants occur
(41:22):
after the staff have been notified. And so that tells
us that the current system of dealing with this by
word of mouth isn't working.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
So, Dylan, how does it work? Is it a two
sided market where you have to get the restaurant or
the restaurant chain to add your technology, but then also
get people who have these allergies to use it.
Speaker 11 (41:41):
Yeah, So we partner with the restaurant chains, food service operators.
We ingest their menu, recipe product technology from various tech stacts.
And then how it works typically is they put a
QRE code in venue on physical menus and menu boards
and a digital link on their website. This is the
most basic integrate, and then when consumers come into the
(42:02):
physical environment or digital environment, they scan the QRE. It
prompts them to create their dietary profile where they can
choose from over one hundred and fifty different allergens and
dietary requirements, and then instantly it will show them here's
exactly what you can eat, here's what you can eat
with a modifier, and what that modifier is, and here's
what you can't eat and why. So it's completely personalized
(42:22):
based on their requirements and the consumer discovers this In
the Restaurant's Environment.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Center Bill sixty eight in the state of California, this
is effective next week. It's going to require major chains
to provide detailed allergen info. Many people argue, this is
a major step toward transparency. How has that increased adoption
of your product?
Speaker 11 (42:43):
Yeah, so just on that it was signed by Gavin
Usom a month ago. It becomes effect of one July
twenty six.
Speaker 8 (42:49):
And so what in.
Speaker 11 (42:50):
Essence requires is every restaurant chain and foods service facility
with twenty plus locations nationwide, where at least one of
those is in California, to label all of their physical
and digital menus for the major nine food origens. So
this is obviously a major step change for restaurants. They
can do it one of two ways they can either
physically annotate every one of their menu items with those origens,
(43:14):
or they can use a digital like a QR code
that links out to digital allergen menu. And that's obviously
what we do, and from speaking to a lot of
the bigger chains recently, as you might imagine, their strong
preferences to use a digital mechanism, and so we're getting
a lot more inbound then we certainly were a few
months ago, which is fantastic.
Speaker 17 (43:35):
But we continue to work with like.
Speaker 11 (43:36):
I said, with independence chains, food service facilities of all types.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Dylan McDonald, he's founder and CEO of Fudini, joining us
from Santa Monica, California. Well, that is going to do
it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech. Do not forget
to check out our podcast. You can find it on
the terminal as well as online at Apple, Spotify and
iHeart This is Bloomberg
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is a
lie from coast to coast, with Caroline Hide in New
York and Ed Ludlow in San Francisco.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. We zero in on
tech earnings with Dell raising its AI servership and outlook
well HP announces job cuts, plus Warner Brothers Discovery asking
bidders for sweetened offers by December first as it explores
options for a sale, and Nvidia in focus is Doubts
over the company's AI chip dominance are growing. I'm Jim
(00:43):
Centeveec in New York in for Caroline Hide and Ed Ludlow.
Let's get a check on markets right now. Ustocks advancing
as expectations for an interest rate cut at the fed's
next meeting are helping to fuel gains before the Thanksgiving break.
NAZAC one hundred up right now and look at the
last three days of four percent. This after both the
S and P five hundred and NAZAC on hundred moved
(01:04):
away from their last record highs in late October.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
The NAZAK one hundred.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Down about let's say, three point six percent from that
all time high. The s and P five hundred, though
down just a little over one percent. We're also looking
at tech earnings with Dell and HP. Dell raising its
annual projections for the AI server market thanks to sustain
demand for machines needed in the current data boom. Meanwhile,
HP stock under pressure down two point two percent right now.
(01:30):
The company now it's four thousand to six thousand job
cuts over the next couple of years by using more
AI tools. For more on HP and Dell, let's bring
in Bloomberg's and Dina Bastina joins us here in New York.
I want to start with HP. Four thousand to six
thousand jobs sounds like a lot. And indeed, if we
go to the six thousand sound it's like a ten
percent of.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
The company's workforce.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
But that's through twenty twenty eight fiscal years, so we're
a few years away from that. And if it's AI
that they're going to replace these people with, AI can
change a lot between.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Now and then.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Sure, And to be clear, each did a similar magnitude
job cut over the last three years.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
They just finished it.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
They have these kind of periodic efficiency plans. I guess
what's new about this one is the idea is that
they are going to use AI tools and models to
do things like product development, customer customer service sales, and
that's where you're getting these job cuts. But at the
same time, even though they're going to be saving money
(02:24):
that way, they said they actually took they actually came
in below on their guide for next year for fiscal
fiscal year profit and that was because of a completely
different issue around memory price increases. So you had both
you have these job cuts and it's not you know,
making the bottom line look where people expected it would
come in.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Well, speaking of those price increases, that also hitting Dell,
So let's let's talk a little bit about Dell. Dell
is contending with despite strong demand, how is it going
to make its AI server business more profitable.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
So the AI server business, and that's basically since I
know you're going to be talking about GPUs in a minute,
are the servers that have GPUs that go into these
AI data centers, and the demand for them has been
very high for Dell and other makers. Of the problem
is that in order to get some of these deals
and in order to deploy some of those servers, Dell
was basically incurring more significant costs. What they're trying to
(03:18):
do now is pull back from that a little bit
to widen the profit margin in that business. They've they
succeeded in the last quarter, they told me, because they
were able to serve a more diverse group of customers,
so some of those were a better, more profitable sets
of deals.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
I think these rising costs are going to be the
same throughout the next.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Year as well.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
You know, always good to see you, Welcome back to
New York, Happy Thanksgiving as well. Well, let's bring in
now in talking video because in video shares over the
last five days taking a hit down more than three percent.
The stock facing pressures as AI Chip rivals gained ground,
leaving investors wondering if it's dominance can be sustained. Bloomberg's
Ryan Vistelica joins us for more So, Ryan, I think
(03:57):
the big question that investors have after seeing what happened
with Alphabet in this report in the information earlier this week,
is can Googles TPUs actually compete with the GPUs from Nvidia?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
What are you hearing?
Speaker 5 (04:11):
Hey, good morning, Thanks for having me. So I would
say that while there are a lot of differences between
Innvidia's chips and alphabets. Alphabets are designed for one specific purpose,
which is working with AI workloads in the cloud, which
is really the dominant use case for a lot of
the AI infrastructure that's being done right now. So there
is certainly a very big market for the TPU chips,
(04:35):
as we saw with the Anthropic deal that was announced
a couple of weeks ago and with this report with Meta,
so that opens up potentially a huge new market for Alphabet,
and it does put in Vidia's market share under a
little bit of pressure. Now, this is still very early
days and it's not like Alphabet is out there selling
(04:56):
chips to people in the same way that Nvidia is,
but certainly people are reassessing what our market share is
going to look like over the coming years. And if
in Videas is a lot smaller than previously expected, what
does that mean for the stock? What does that mean
for the valuation? What does that mean for its expected
growth rates going forward?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, I mean the analyst community, though at this point
even investors may be a little concerned, but the analyst community,
they've still got buys on this stock. I mean, there's
only one analyst who's tracked by Bloomberg. Jay Goldberg over
at Seaport, who has a sell on in Vidia.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Is he changing his tune? Are these analysts changing their tune?
Speaker 6 (05:34):
No?
Speaker 5 (05:34):
In fact, I spoke with him yesterday and he said
he is more negative on Nvidia now than he was
a couple of weeks ago. I would say that, you know,
the new concerns about you know, custom silicon and new
rising competition for in VideA. This comes at a time
when people are increasingly questioning the AI trade. There is
a lot of debate right now about the amount of
spending going on, how durable is this going to be,
(05:57):
how sustainable, what kind of returns our companies see on this?
And if they're not seeing big returns on this investment,
are is a going to pull back on their AI
spending going forward? And VideA is really at the heart
of a lot of AI debate right now. And then
you add in this new one where what does their
market share look like? What about competition? That is just
another reason for people to be skeptical. Although analysts so
(06:20):
far are holding firm and remain pretty positive.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah, in Vidia shares up thirty two percent over the
last year, Bloomberg's Ryan Vistellica. Happy Thanksgiving, Ryan, Thanks for
joining us. Well, let's get more on the wider tech markets.
Nancy Tangler, CEO and CIO of Laffer Tangler Investment. She
says there's more room to run for AI stocks, writing quote,
since we are in the early stages of the AI
adoption and investment cycle, we believe the providers of the technology,
(06:45):
the picks and shovels, will continue to produce enviable earnings growth.
Nancy joins us, Now, what's a more promising pick and
or shovel?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Is it alphabet or is it in video? Nancy?
Speaker 7 (06:59):
Thanks, you're having tim You know, I'm actually going to
go We own them both, and I'm going to go
with Nvidia. And the reason for that is I think
analysts are forgetting our investors are not focusing on Kuda,
which is the software system that developers use around the
Nvidia chips, Blackwell and then soon to be Reuben and
(07:21):
I think it's analogous to Apple and the App Store.
So you know, it was just a handset company when
we were buying it. I was told that every time
I talked about it on the air, but it was
really the app store and services that we were buying,
and this I think is analogous to that. If they lose,
you know, if they go from eighty percent to seventy
nine percent market share, I can live with that because
(07:42):
I think the earnings growth is going to continue.
Speaker 8 (07:44):
And let'sten forget.
Speaker 7 (07:45):
AMD is in the wings and we also own that
and Broadcom which.
Speaker 8 (07:50):
Is developing the TPUs.
Speaker 7 (07:51):
So I think there's a lot of ways to make
money in this trade.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
At what point do we move meond the so called
picks and shovels of the AI trade and start to
see the increase in i don't know efficiency, the increase
in productivity in non technology companies.
Speaker 7 (08:09):
So we listened to the company's tim and let me
give you one great example. We've talked about it before,
but Walmart is our poster child of our investing theme,
which is an old economy company that is pivoted to
the new technologies and is now going to be listed
on the NASDAK lets. Remember, so they had six percent
revenue growth, pretty good for Walmart, but twenty seven percent
in e commerce That was also interesting to me. But
(08:32):
what really got my attention was that delivery speeds were
thirty five percent of digital orders are arriving in under
three hours. They're also using automation in the fulfillment center,
so fifty percent of their orders are fulfilled automatically via robot.
We own the company that did all that for them, Symbotic,
(08:55):
So that's a second or maybe even third derivative player
in AI.
Speaker 8 (09:00):
So I think it's broadening out. We're hearing it from
all across.
Speaker 7 (09:04):
You know, Raytheon talked about how they were utilizing AI
in order to improve supply supply log.
Speaker 9 (09:11):
Jams that's a stock we own, and TGLR, all of
these we own there actually, So I think it's important
to start listening to the companies paying attention to who's
seeing margin expansion, and we're definitely seeing it at the
company level.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Nancy.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
If we were talking a week ago, I think we'd
have started our conversation focused on the idea of a bubble,
maybe concerns about CAPEX spending, the handwringing that we saw
last week over some of these valuations that has seemed
to receded received just a little bit this week. But
you've been through multiple cycles and I'm wondering how you
(09:45):
view the whole AI bubble talk right now, compared to
let's say, the tech boom of the late nineties and
bust as well.
Speaker 10 (09:53):
Well.
Speaker 7 (09:53):
I wish I was as clever as ed Yar Danny
because he coined this phrase too, But I wrote a
piece called the bubble and Bubble Talk.
Speaker 8 (10:00):
I think it's important to note a couple of things.
Speaker 7 (10:02):
In the nineties, from ninety six to two thousand, the
growth stocks that whose valuations were skyrocketing were actually experiencing
contracting earnings.
Speaker 8 (10:11):
We're not seeing that now. Growth. The growth stocks in.
Speaker 7 (10:14):
This particular technological revolution are experiencing about twenty percent growth
on average. Cap X was also something that was healthy
and then accelerated through the entire decade. We're just now
starting to see that ramp up in the last couple
of years.
Speaker 8 (10:31):
So I think it's important.
Speaker 7 (10:33):
And then these companies have fortress balance sheets and all this.
I don't want to say I am going to say
nonsense around Oracle. I think it's important to remember that
this is a company that's always had a ton of debt.
Debt to equity was four hundred and twenty seven percent
at the end of the quarter. That's down from seven
hundred and eighty percent year over year. This is all
(10:53):
before they issued the eighteen billion dollars in debt for
the open Ai data center build out. That this company
has a history of using debt. But the PPE is
up one hundred and thirty percent year over year, while
debt is only up nine So debt to equity will decline.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
So you're not concerned at all about the price of
five year CDSS for Oracle rising to the highest going
back to October twenty twenty two. That's not concerning you.
Speaker 11 (11:23):
It is.
Speaker 8 (11:24):
It's a par trade though.
Speaker 7 (11:25):
What concerns me more is the concentration in the market
around open Ai, and I think that has to sort
itself out now. Such in a della would tell you
that data centers are fungible. If we don't use it
for this, we'll use it for that, and I think
that's certainly true. But I am concerned about the SPEN.
I mean, that's a company with a burn rate, right
(11:46):
open Ai ten billion revenues and trillions and spend. Oracle
has other businesses they can change shift directions use data
center for cloud computing.
Speaker 8 (11:57):
I don't like the par trade, but.
Speaker 7 (11:58):
I think we were added to it a couple of
days ago and I think I think from here we're
going to be talking about fundamentals instead of it became
the post, it became the narrative stock for this.
Speaker 8 (12:10):
This bubble is overdone. We're not in a bubble.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, those September highs that we saw for Oracle, I
mean we're done significantly from those, but still up seven
percent over the last year.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
In about twenty percent so far this year.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Nancy Tangler of Laffer Tangler Investments always good to see
you happy Thanksgiving. Well, Uber is going to begin offering
driver list trips and we ride vehicles around parts of
Abu Dhabi. The new milestone follows the two companies first
launching a ride service with safety operators behind the wheel
almost a year ago. They intend to expand their driver
list vehicle operating territory at Abu Dhabi and extend their
(12:42):
partnership to Dubai soon. Well, coming up, holiday shopping season
is here and with it new online scams. We're going
to discuss what to look out for it how to
protect yourself next.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
This is Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Holiday shopping sales seem to start earlier and earlier, but
this year's Black Friday and Cyber Monday deals might not
be a steep. Bloomberg opinion columnist Andrea Felstaid has a
peace out, and she writes that tariffs will cause retailers
to offer smaller discounts. In the quest for deals, shoppers
may be tempted to turn to new websites or click
ads for deals that turn out to be scams. Teresa
(13:28):
Payton is former White House CIO and current CEO of
the cybersecurity firm Forderless Solutions.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
She joins us for more good to have you on
the program.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
You know, I'm always thinking that we're in this day
and age where it can easily become victims of fraud
or victims of scams. But why does it happen with
increased frequency during heavy shoppy seasons like Black Friday.
Speaker 12 (13:50):
Well, we're all busy and many of us are looking
for extra deals and extra bargains this year, like you
mentioned earlier, because of the tariffs, and with that, we're
getting bombarded on social media with things that look really
cool and hot, and we want to make sure we
get the deal, we get it quickly before they run out.
(14:10):
And don't forget, criminals and fraudsters now have AI as
a tool at their fingertips, and so it's making it
very cost effective for them to target you and me
while we do our holiday shop.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Okay, so I want to get to what we can
do to protect ourselves. But before we do that, Teresa,
how are they using AI to target us? What does
that look like? And how could that look differently than
the scams that we're used to.
Speaker 12 (14:30):
Yeah, so they're basically reverse engineering websites that you or
I might go to, the legitimate websites, and then they're
doing things like a play on the name and then
setting up imposter social media accounts and basically jumping.
Speaker 10 (14:46):
Into your feed.
Speaker 12 (14:46):
Then you follow this great deal and then the next
thing you know, you're buying from a scammer or a
fraudster and not from the actual website that you think
you're visiting. They're also spinning up businesses using bots to
actually give them them sells great reviews. So it all
looks like it's on the up and up, But just
a little bit of diligence and a little bit of research,
you'll be able to figure out and spot the scam
(15:09):
sites and the fraud sites pretty easily.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Okay, you mentioned diligence and research. You shared with our
team reputation checkers for websites. I'd never actually even heard
of these or used them before. Should these be part
of our diet when it comes to healthy shopping?
Speaker 12 (15:24):
Yeah, I love the fact that you brought this up
because I personally use these websites, especially if I'm going
to a site I've never ordered from before. Even if
I have a friend or a relative tell me they've
used a site, so things like scam Advisor, you aurl, Void,
trust Pilot, and I will post these on my social
media accounts. These websites will actually tell you how old
(15:46):
the domain name is. It could be legitimately a brand
new business, or it might be a scamra frauds, you're
taking advantage of holidays.
Speaker 10 (15:55):
So it'll also.
Speaker 12 (15:55):
Tell you whether or not security companies or consumers reported
issues with these sites.
Speaker 10 (16:02):
And of course old school still rules.
Speaker 12 (16:05):
The Better Business Bureau is a great place to check
on a domain name as well.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Okay, so I think that for me, at least one
area that I always think of as a backstop is
the way I pay. And I'm only using credit cards
on these websites because I feel like if I have
an issue then I can just call my credit card
company and they can protect me. Are people using other
(16:29):
payment solutions that might not have that same level of protection.
Speaker 10 (16:33):
Yeah, this is the tough part, and I agree with you.
Speaker 12 (16:35):
I only use a credit card when I am shopping online.
I do not use my debit card. I don't use
gift cards to shop online. What's happening is a lot
of these scam sites and fraud sites will say things
like we only accept Venmo or zell, we only accept
gift cards, we only accept wire transfers. So they might say, well,
(16:58):
for this to work, we're international, we have to have
a wire transfer. These are red flags when a merchant
tells you they will only accept those form of payment
and they won't accept credit card. Chances are you're dealing
with a fraudster because they know the credit card companies
will actually come after them and shut them down, so
they want you to use these other forms of payment.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Other red flags maybe a price is too good to
be true.
Speaker 12 (17:23):
Yeah, So if you see things like seventy to ninety
percent off during the holiday season, that is typically a
red flag. Now, unless you're on sort of a household
name website that you navigated to on your own, you
didn't follow a link in social media, you didn't follow
link in an email or text.
Speaker 10 (17:42):
So if it's too good to be true, also look
at that domain name. When in doubt.
Speaker 12 (17:47):
There's a website called VirusTotal dot com. You can use
it for free. Copy and paste that website in there,
and it'll actually evaluate the URL and tell you whether
or not you might be dealing with the scam site.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Okay, Teresa, before we let you go, if you do
somehow become a victim of not necessarily a cyber attack,
but maybe an attack on your identity or some sort
of scam, what should be the first thing you do?
Speaker 12 (18:11):
Yeah, first thing you do is you want to call
your bank. So whatever payment method you used, you need
to lock down your life. The next thing to think
about is actually you can report it at the FBI,
to IC three dot gov and the FTC FTC dot gov.
But also there is a nonprofit resource that is free
to use called the Identity Resource Theft Center. It's a
(18:32):
great nonprofit. I've referred people there and they will actually
give you a checklist.
Speaker 10 (18:38):
You can talk to a real human.
Speaker 12 (18:39):
Being and work on getting your peace of mind and
your identity back.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Teresa, Payton, CEO of Forder Lists Solutions, thank you so
much for joining us.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Coming out, the.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
US face is a potential electricity crisis due to a
surge in demand to power AI data centers. We've got
the details. Next, this is Bloomberg Tech. Well, today we
(19:12):
take a look at America's power system. It was already
under stress even before the AI boom. Now with AI
data centers coming online, a new Schneider Electric analysis foresees
the US facing a potential electricity crisis. This is the
surgeon demand comes at odds with the reality of aged
and vulnerable grids. Bloomberg's ESG reporter Alistair Marsh joins us
(19:33):
from No More. Alistair, how does electricity crisis manifest in
the United States? Certainly higher bills as part of that,
but are we talking rolling blackouts here for many Americans?
Speaker 13 (19:46):
Well, essentially, the Schneider Electric data shows that the massive
amount of power demands to power demand in the US
has basically been flat for about two decades, and all
of a sudden with the advent of Aisle, the last
AI acceleration that we're seeing in the US, with the
billions of dollars of kpex being put to work and
the mass build out of data centers. You suddenly have
(20:07):
this surge in demand. Add to that increase electrification, add
to that onsurine of manufacturing, and you suddenly have this
sort of crisis moment where the energy infrastructure in the
US has not been invested in and not been built
out particularly aggressively for a period meets a very aggressive
build out of AI, and so we're going to reach,
(20:28):
according to the Schneider data, we're going to reach a
crunch point in about three years, in twenty twenty eight.
That's the moment they say that the supply available on
the system will not be able to will no longer
be able to meet demand unless we start eating into
emergency reserves of power which you are saved from moments
of extreme weather or cyber attacks and so forth, all
of which means that the grid is basically going to
(20:49):
become under increased strain and going to be increasingly vulnerable.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
You cover ESG for Bloomberg News. You're joining us from London.
I'm not going to make your wigh in on the
politics of infrastructure spending here in the United States, but
it's very political, like so much spending is is there
foreseeably a way that even if the US had the money,
they could reliably upgrade the grid's weak points with enough
(21:14):
in enough time to be ready for this surge.
Speaker 13 (21:18):
A short answer is no, I mean you're kind to
let me not weigh into the US politics, But there
is both a political issue here. I mean, you see
it with the recently power prices are on the ballot
in New Jersey, and they'll be increasingly on the ballot,
and that could turn against the AI build out if
there's a sort of political groundswell against that. But also
there's a geopolitical element here where the US is in
(21:41):
a race with China to be kind of the AI superpower,
and China has Why you could argue that the US
has the advantage in terms of tech and chips, actually
China has a structural advantage with cheaper, abundant power, and
that might be, according to some analysts, something that wins
out in the long run. And so what Schneider is
saying here to go back to actually answer your question
(22:03):
is that no, you can't fix us in the three
year period because you can't build enough generation and enough
transmission in that period because most of those projects will
take ten years to build. Therefore, you need to find
ways at the margin what are sometimes called grid enhancing technologies,
battery storage, micro grids, other things that can kind of
build out extra capacity to that don't require those large,
(22:26):
long infrastructure buildouts that just won't be ready in time.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Bloomberg's Alistair Marsh joining us from London. Alistair mentioned the
political implications of this. Do you check out Bloomberg Opinion
and Connorson had an interesting story just in the last
few days about what happened in Georgia. Hey, coming up next,
we're going to speak with CFR senior equity analyst Angela
Zeno as investors begin to question longevity of the AI trade.
This is Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. I'm
(23:04):
Tim Steneveek in New York in for Caroline Hide and
at Ludlow. Let's take a look at the markets. Checking
out the NASAQ one hundred slightly up on the day today,
hopes of a FED rate cut in the December meeting. Meanwhile,
also taking a look at alphabet in Nvidia. In Vidia
facing concerns that its market share and semis used in
AI computing is slipping following a report suggesting Google's AI
(23:26):
processors are gaining ground. Google down on the day one
point two percent, in Vidia higher by one point eight percent.
This comes as in video celebrated Google's achievement earlier today,
but also saying the chip makers still quote a generation
ahead of the industry. It's the only platform that runs
every AI model and does it everywhere computing is done.
This is a tweet from the Nvidia newsroom or a
(23:49):
post on acts I should say from the Nvidia newsroom.
Let's get more with Bloomberg Equities reporter Carmen Reinikey. Carmen
does seem like investors are starting to feel like Alphabet's
Google could be gaining when it comes to market share
in what Invidia.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Has absolutely ruled.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
But still the analyst community community at this point is
not really convinced.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
What are your sources telling you, Yeah, that's really true.
Speaker 6 (24:13):
I mean, I think in Nvidia is really still so dominant.
And that's what we're seeing from analysts.
Speaker 8 (24:18):
You know, even though.
Speaker 6 (24:18):
There's been sort of these questions about the AI trade
and you know, Google's chips coming in being more competition,
analysts have actually raised their estimates for Nvidia going forward.
Speaker 8 (24:29):
You know, it's last.
Speaker 6 (24:30):
Quarter was so good, had this huge revenue forecast, and
you know, we're seeing a little bit of a relief
rally in the shares today. It's gotten pretty beaten down,
but dip buyers are you know, starting to come back in.
Speaker 10 (24:41):
And then on the flip side.
Speaker 6 (24:42):
We're seeing you know, Google actually dip a little bit today. Now,
of course it was it's been at a record high,
so that's that's no surprise. But really, you know, in
Nvidia does seem to still remain on top, and it's
one that we're going to continue watching as really the
dominant player in the AI space.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Dominant player in the AI space. But in terms of
stock performance this year, Alphabet has just been remarkable, close
to seventy percent increase so far this year. In Vidia
up about thirty five percent. That's nothing to shake a
stick at. Also, Alphabet approaching a four trillion dollar marketcap.
We're in videos, you know, above four trillion dollars. Are
(25:18):
analysts more bullish on in video? Are they more bullish
when it comes to Alphabet?
Speaker 6 (25:24):
You know, I think analysts are really bullish across the
board on both companies. You know, they're so big and
they do so many things so well. But you know,
the market cap thing is really interesting. We're watching all
of those companies very closely. You know, it's always been
sort of Apple and in Vidia jockeying for the top spot,
you know, the biggest company in the world. But you know,
Google's really in the mix now, so it'll be really
(25:47):
interesting to see sort of where we end up this year.
You're right, Google's stock has done so well. I think
it's still the top performing stock in the meg seven,
really kind of taking over in Video's place there. But yeah, overall,
you know, so Wall Street is very bullish on these
on these stocks, and I think in Vidia still only
really has one bear on Wall Street, who just boosted
(26:09):
his estimates, you know, for the company's earnings going forward.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Jay Goldberg over at cpour Research that lonely in Vidia bear,
but he's sticking by his call. Bloomberg's harmon Ryanikey joining us.
Happy holidays, Carmen, appreciate you joining us today. Hey, let's
get more on the market movements with Angelo Zeno, senior
equity analyst at CFI Research. Angela, what do you make
of this sort of race between Alphabet and in Video
that we've seen play out over the last couple of days.
(26:33):
The narrative shift that hey, wait, a second Alphabet with
a ten year old product might actually have something that
could compete within Video's GPUs.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Do you buy it?
Speaker 8 (26:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 14 (26:43):
And thanks for having me, Tim. The way I look
at this is, listen, in Video's had the ninety percent
plus market share on the computer side right with their GPUs.
Our view the whole time was that they were going
to lose share anyway, and that custom silicon chips were
going to gain a bigger pe. So the pie A
and D eventually was going to have its share as
(27:04):
a second alternative to the GPU market. So this is
kind of playing out though the way we anticipated. It's
going to be a slow role, but ultimately, listen, I
do think there's a place for TPUs as well as
other customs silicon chips. I don't think you can necessarily
sleep on, you know, a company like Amazon. But you know,
it's interesting that the strategic pivot that potentially Alphabet is
(27:25):
looking at potentially you know, looking to sell those TPUs
to Meta and you know, to the extent that that's
true and to how quickly some of that scales up,
I think is a risk to the Invidia story. But again,
I mean, video will continue to be the dominant player
out there, and I think investors, you know, maybe it
shouldn't be looking too deep into the share fight and
(27:48):
kind of you know, can also consider the upside in
terms of the total addressable market opportunity here over the
next couple of years.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Well, it makes me think of the incredible and enviable
margins that Invidia has and it's data center bits, and
I'm wondering, okay, well, even if in Video still becomes
and remains the clear market leader, does it put margin
pressure on the company? Does the company have to come
out and say, okay, well we're not going to charge
as much for these GPUs because they're potentially, at least
for some customers there may be another option out there.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Does it put margin pressure on them?
Speaker 14 (28:19):
I think that's an interesting point. The way we look
at this actually is a little bit differently. I mean,
when we think about kind of these next gen offerings
that in Video is set to roll out, and we're
big believers that listen, in Vidia is the generation ahead.
They will continue to be you know, leaders in terms
of technology advancements. But as you roll out Ruben, and
Ruben doesn't really have kind of the step up function
(28:40):
you know to Blackwell the way Blackwell had relative to Hopper.
But you get to Ruben and then Ruben Ultra, You're
going to see some significant content growth here over the
next couple of years from a Nvidia in the data center.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
So that should continue to hold up data.
Speaker 14 (28:54):
Their revenue trajectory as well as you know, the margins
here for the company. So we're not necessary really concerned
about margins here. But that said, listen, if we get
to a point where you know, the whole debate between
supply demands starts to you know, even out and those
competitive pressures do start to intensify, then you have an issue.
It's not something we're really kind of concerned about here
(29:14):
over the next eighteen to twenty four months.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
So okay, so you know, in terms of not being
concerned in the near term, that makes sense. What about
the other side of the coin, which is the opportunity
that it presents for Alphabet Can they ramp up production
of these?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Can they can they.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Actually get these to customers quickly who they want them?
Speaker 14 (29:33):
Yeah, I mean, and to the extent that they you know,
they're looking at this strategic pivot I think, you know,
remains to be seen, but yeah, I mean, listen, it's
an opportunity for them. Again, I don't think they take
up a huge chunk of the market. I think it's
actually a bigger play, an opportunity for Broadcom, to be
honest with you, and as you kind of go into
twenty six and twenty seven, the accelerating growth that you're
(29:56):
going to see in their semiconductor business I think is
kind of a nic intriguing play alongside there their software offering,
where if you have any concerns about share loss from Nvidia,
take a look at Broadcom because that becomes a nice
interesting play on a company that we'll be taking market
share here on that customer silicon growth as they also
(30:16):
continue to broad in out their customer base outside of
just you know, Alphabet's TPUs to other customs silicon vendors.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Angela, if we were having a conversation last week, we'd
probably be talking about and we'd probably started the conversation
with equity evaluations, And I'm just wondering how you're looking
at valuations right now where there's been some talk about okay,
things are looking a little bit bubbly right now.
Speaker 14 (30:40):
You know, I actually feel much better about valuations today
than I did three four weeks ago, and it almost
kind of self corrected itself out right. So when you
look ahead of just you know, late October, look at valuations,
they were essentially where we were at the June twenty
four you know, tech highs, and essentially at twenty year highs,
So you kind of look, get what the market is
(31:00):
done here. We've actually had a better than expected Q
three earning season. On top of that, also we'll pull
back here on the tech side, that's really kind of
compressed multiples to now where you would expect multiples on
a forward basis to be here over the last five years.
So when you look at valuations, especially given the earnings
growth that we see over the next eighteen to twenty
(31:21):
four months, we actually think this is actually an enticing opportunity,
especially with some of those larger cap tech names. You
look at maybe some of the most reasonable valuations out there.
Meta and Nvidia really kind of stand out at this
point in time where I think they could be kind
of nice rebound plays on the sharp pullback they've.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Pad Hey, just twenty seconds angelo before we let you go.
We just had an interesting conversation with Alistair Marsh about
data centers and what could happen in the United States
to the electric grid and China actually taking a lead
as a result of infrastructure issues here. Just very briefly,
how could that reign in data center growth and development
here in the US if that were and is some
(32:00):
sort of boundary or barrier.
Speaker 14 (32:02):
Yeah, it's one of the biggest risks going into twenty
twenty six, the energy bottlenecks, and more so into twenty
seven and twenty eight, right as we start transforming and
changing the narrative from the bookings growth expectations to one
where it's also all about execution of these data center buildouts.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Luzino, Senior equity analyst at CFRI Research. Happy Thanksgiving, Thanks
so much for joining us Well. Mckensey cut about two
hundred global tech jobs in the past week as the
consulting firm joins Rivals and using AI to automate some positions,
and sources say the company is closely assessing what tasks
can be carried out by AI and isn't ruling out
(32:39):
additional reductions across different functions over the next two years
this as it ramps up use of the tech coming
up one our music settles a copyright lawsuit against AI startups,
So no more on that. Next this is Bloomberg Tech.
(33:06):
Warner Music Group and AI music creator Suno have settled
a copyright lawsuit and agreed on a new partnership in
creating music. Suno was accused by Warner Music and other
major record labels for using copyrighted material without compensating artists
or their companies. For the latest Bloomberg Music and podcast
reporter Ashley Carmen joins us now and for people aren't
for people to understand Warner Music in the music industry
(33:27):
and where publishers and labels fall in.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
But where do sooner fall into this?
Speaker 15 (33:31):
Well, that's the big question. So Suno and its competitor
Udio have really found a business in allowing people to
type in prompts and gift songs in return. And so
now the big question is is this competition for the
traditional record labels? Probably? Is this a tool for artists
human artists? Probably? And what does this actually mean for
the business? And so this deal is kind of a
(33:51):
landmark moment in that entire dialogue.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Is there like a historical corollary or parallel.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
We can draw here.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Is this like when Steve Jobs unbundled the album and
let us download one song for a ninety nine cents?
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Is it a bigger deal than that?
Speaker 15 (34:04):
People like to compare it to the Napster moment, where
this could really be a paradigm shift. Yeah, how people
create music, how they consume music, where they consume music,
where they create music. So it gets a lot of comparisons.
And I think, unlike that moment where the record labels
and Napster were really at odds for years and it
basically creted the entire music business. They want to start
making partnerships and actually have a hand in this business.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
What do artists think of this?
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Because in that moment, and I live through the Napster moment,
I mean, guilty is charged. Don't get me in trouble
for that. But artists were understandably really upset, and you know,
you had Lars Lrick on one side from Metallica.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
It was a really big deal. Where do artists fall
in this debate?
Speaker 15 (34:44):
Artists are using these tools in the studios. I go
to the studios and I say, do you use AI
and They're like, yeah, we do. But at the same time,
I think they don't want wholly AI generated songs to
come in and take market share away from human created works.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
But is there also this understanding that there wasn't then
that for our an artists to make money they need
to do more than just create the music.
Speaker 15 (35:03):
I mean, this is this is the thing, is that
business is shifting so much. Streaming brought the industry back
from piracy, but it also meant that now so many
people can upload their music, they don't need to go
through a distributor to be in retail stores. It means
they have to tour. It means they need to create merch.
It means they need to build these super fans to
keep that business going.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Bloomberg's actually Carmen joining us. Thanks so much, Ashley, Happy Thanksgiving.
Let's turn out a Warner Brothers Discovery stay on Media.
The company asking bidders for swedened offers by December. This
December first actually, as it explores options for a sale.
Bloomberg's media reporter Hannah Miller has been reporting on the
saga and she joins us. Now, So, Hannah, who are
the companies that are at play right now for these assets.
Speaker 16 (35:42):
Yeah, so we have Paramount, Comcasts and Netflix. They all
have some differences with their bids with the obstacles facing
them here. But those are the players going for Warner
Brothers Discoveries assets.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Do they all want the same assets or do they
want different assets?
Speaker 16 (35:59):
So Comcasts and net Flix they're going for streaming and
studios they want, you know, those big profit sectors for
Warner Brothers Discovery. Paramount wants the whole thing. There'll take
the cable networks too, even though we've seen so many
people cut the cord and shift from cable to streaming.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
From a regulatory perspective, is that a harder Is that
a harder barrier? Does it kind of not matter given
what we've seen from this administration and the way that
media has changed in recent years, because there could there
you know, CNN is part of that, and CNN and
CBS living side by side a network and cable when
it comes to news, that could be a challenge.
Speaker 16 (36:34):
Now, Yeah, it's a great question. It's something a lot
of investors are thinking about. With Paramount. We know that
the CEO, David Ellison, he's spoken about the positive relationship
that he has with President Trump, So that could help
smooth things over on a regulatory front. The thing with
Netflix is that there are questions about if both streaming
(36:56):
services were under Netflix, if HBO Max got added to Netflix,
would they dominate and have too much market share?
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Wow, I can't believe we're talking about streamers and antitrust.
That's kind of where we are in this world, Hannah,
before we let you go, David Allison is one David
we're thinking about. David Zaslov is another David that we're
thinking about over at Warner Brothers Discovery.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
What happens to him after this?
Speaker 16 (37:17):
Yeah, so the role he plays with whatever shakes out,
that is a big factor here. We know he's someone
who still wants to stay in the mix, and I
think a lot of the investors, the shareholders, they're all
thinking about what role Zazov will play after a deal.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Bloomberg's Hannah Miller. Hopefully she's not too busy during the
holidays staying on top of this deal. Appreciate you taking
the time. Well, coming up, we're going to talk to
the startup that's using AI to help restaurants identify ingredients
that could be allergens or restricted under some diets. It's
an issue restaurants chains from California soon won't be able
to ignore. This is Bloomberg Tech. Well, if any part
(38:07):
of your thanks Evin Jenner is being ordered or coming
from a restaurant, you might have had to ask about
the ingredient list to check any allergens for your guests.
It's an issue that goes far beyond Thanksgiving, with millions
of Americans with allergies or dietary restrictions struggling when they
go out to eat. Startup Fudini is aiming to solve
this problem with an AI tool to help restaurants thoroughly
and clearly label ingredients. Fudini COEO. Dylan McDonald joins us. Now, Dylan,
(38:32):
you've got a really interesting story. I think, like so
many startups, it comes from a place of necessity for
the founder. Talk to us a little bit about what
you've dealt with.
Speaker 17 (38:41):
Yeah, first, see Tim, thanks very much for having me.
Great to be here. And yeah, like you mentioned.
Speaker 11 (38:46):
I diagnosed celiac when I was ten years old and
so have a lot of personal experience navigating dining out
of home and ordering online while needing to know what's
in my food and just over a long period of time,
got more and more for it with how difficult it
was to get that information and mistakes and inaccuracies, and
decided to try and do something about it.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
So how can AI actually help restaurants do this? Because
you know, when you do look at a menu, when
you do talk to a server, I feel like in
this day and age, they have a good understanding of
at least some of the most common allergies like gluten
for example, and people who have celiac. So what does
AI allow them to take a step further?
Speaker 3 (39:25):
How does it do that?
Speaker 17 (39:27):
Yeah, it's a fair point. I think you're right.
Speaker 11 (39:28):
I think a lot of restaurants have got on top
of gluten free, vegan, vegetarian, the main ones. But there's
one hundred and seventy three million Americans who have some
form of food energy or dietry requirement, and the allergens
go far beyond just you know, gluten and vegan. And
so what we do is we help restaurants by ingesting
their menu information, the recipe information, and the product information,
(39:50):
and we have trained large anguage models to break those
down to the ingredient level, tag them with the correct
allergen and dietary requirements and then we're able to to
power a personalized menu solution whereby consumers can see exactly
what they can and can't eat on the menu depending
on their personal requirements.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
You have a background in law, your former corporate attorney,
and you know, I wonder about the liability element here.
You know, mistakes happen, mistakes get made, AI lms hallucinate. Well,
how do you protect around that and how do you
make sure that even if a food says it doesn't
have something, it doesn't become contaminated somewhere with that ingredient process.
Speaker 17 (40:27):
Yeah, it's a great question. Firstly, on hallucinations.
Speaker 11 (40:30):
Our technology never guesses if there is you know, it's
based on structured ingredient and supplier data.
Speaker 17 (40:37):
If there's ever a scenario where it is ensure, it.
Speaker 11 (40:40):
Will tag in the back end for us that it's
there's an uncertainty and our dietitian team will come in
over the top and do QA and manually intervene and
as you know, they make inputs into the system, the
LLM learns, it gets smarter and smarter over time. From
a legal liability standpoint, we would argue that not having
any documentation on our ergens is a much higher risk
(41:02):
because right now you have a consumer, a member of
staff who's likely not trained on all the ingredients and
all the allergens and all the menu items, and they're
the line of protection for the restaurant between the consumer
and a potentially life threatening a life threatening incident. And
fifty four percent of all allergic reactions and restaurants occur
(41:22):
after the staff have been notified. And so that tells
us that the current system of dealing with this by
word of mouth isn't working.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
So, Dylan, how does it work? Is it a two
sided market where you have to get the restaurant or
the restaurant chain to add your technology, but then also
get people who have these allergies to use it.
Speaker 11 (41:41):
Yeah, So we partner with the restaurant chains, food service operators.
We ingest their menu, recipe product technology from various tech stacts.
And then how it works typically is they put a
QRE code in venue on physical menus and menu boards
and a digital link on their website. This is the
most basic integrate, and then when consumers come into the
(42:02):
physical environment or digital environment, they scan the QRE. It
prompts them to create their dietary profile where they can
choose from over one hundred and fifty different allergens and
dietary requirements, and then instantly it will show them here's
exactly what you can eat, here's what you can eat
with a modifier, and what that modifier is, and here's
what you can't eat and why. So it's completely personalized
(42:22):
based on their requirements and the consumer discovers this In
the Restaurant's Environment.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Center Bill sixty eight in the state of California, this
is effective next week. It's going to require major chains
to provide detailed allergen info. Many people argue, this is
a major step toward transparency. How has that increased adoption
of your product?
Speaker 11 (42:43):
Yeah, so just on that it was signed by Gavin
Usom a month ago. It becomes effect of one July
twenty six.
Speaker 8 (42:49):
And so what in.
Speaker 11 (42:50):
Essence requires is every restaurant chain and foods service facility
with twenty plus locations nationwide, where at least one of
those is in California, to label all of their physical
and digital menus for the major nine food origens. So
this is obviously a major step change for restaurants. They
can do it one of two ways they can either
physically annotate every one of their menu items with those origens,
(43:14):
or they can use a digital like a QR code
that links out to digital allergen menu. And that's obviously
what we do, and from speaking to a lot of
the bigger chains recently, as you might imagine, their strong
preferences to use a digital mechanism, and so we're getting
a lot more inbound then we certainly were a few
months ago, which is fantastic.
Speaker 17 (43:35):
But we continue to work with like.
Speaker 11 (43:36):
I said, with independence chains, food service facilities of all types.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Dylan McDonald, he's founder and CEO of Fudini, joining us
from Santa Monica, California. Well, that is going to do
it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech. Do not forget
to check out our podcast. You can find it on
the terminal as well as online at Apple, Spotify and
iHeart This is Bloomberg
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.