July 1, 2025 • 42 mins
Bloomberg’s Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow discuss the clashes between President Donald Trump and Elon Musk. Plus, the Tesla CEO will oversee sales in Europe and the US as investors brace for disappointing delivery numbers in the second quarter. And, Apple considers using outside AI from Anthropic or OpenAI to power Siri.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Bloomberg Tech is alive from coast to coast, with Caroline
Hyde in New York and Edva Lowe in San Francisco.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. The battle between Elon
Musk and President Trump is refueled, clashing over the tax
bill and the EV subsidy question.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Plus Musk is taking oversight of sales in Europe and
the US as investors brace for another ugly delivery number
for Q two, and.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Apple is considering using AI technology from Manthropic or open Ai,
potentially sidelining its own in house models. All right, let's
get straight to our top story. Tesla is down six percent.
It is off session lows. But the President in the
last few minutes reiterating something that he said earlier this morning,
basically that doades should look at Elon Musk. There was
(00:53):
a question to him about whether must should be deported.
There is a clash over a bill. Let's get to
those comments from earlier today, Rob, thank your luck.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
We might have to put doge on Elon. You know,
you know, doj Doji is the monster that has that
might have to go back and eat Elon.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Will that be there?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Of He gets a lot of subsidies, Peter, But Elon's
very upset that the easy mandate you're gonna be terminated.
And you know what, when you look at it, who
wants not everybody wants to electric car.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Let's get more on the feud Elon Musk versus the
White House remokes Kaylee lines joins us for more and
yet further comments coming from the President that he's going
to be looking more deeply into Elon's businesses.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
Yeah, and Caroline, this was really reignited after Elon Musk
has refired up his criticism of this one big, beautiful bill,
whether or not you assign the blame for that because
of fiscal responsibility concerns, Musks has, in his view that
this adds too much to the deficit and undermines the
work of Doge or what President Trump and other Republicans
have suggested, which is just that Musk is upset about
ev subsidies. Either way, Elon Musk has gone as far
(02:03):
as to say that any Republican who campaigned on lessening
the debt burden of the United States and then voted
for a big addition to the debt would face a
primary funded potentially by Elon Musk. He said they will
lose their primary next year if it is the last
thing I do on this earth keeping in mind, of course,
he deployed almost two hundred and eighty million dollars in
the twenty twenty.
Speaker 6 (02:21):
Four election cycle.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
So that is what President Trump and part has responded
to here. He just reiterated down in Florida that he
wants the Department of Government Efficiency, which Elon Musk was running,
to look into Musk's businesses, calling him the most subsidized
person on Earth, suggesting if those government subsidies were to
go away, Elon Musk might have to go back to
South Africa, though it's unclear how exactly that would work.
Is Yes, there is a rollback of EV subsidies, for example,
(02:43):
in this legislation that could hit Tesla, But for another
Musk company like SpaceX, which basically is the only reliable
way to get US astronauts too and from the International
Space Station, that may be a lot harder of a
relationship to disrupt. Then there's the other threat, of course,
that President Trump has suggested he may act on today.
When he was asked directly if you would look at
deporting Elon Musk, he said he'll have to look into
(03:05):
that knowing that, yes, Elon Musk was born in South Africa,
but he is a US citizen, so it's not clear
either how that would work. And it's also not clear
whether we could see an escalation in this tension as
we saw last month. Elon Musk for now was saying
that while he is tempted to escalate, he'll refrain from
doing so.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Bloomberg's Katie Lines in Washington, d C. Thank you very much.
Let's stick with Tesca Tesla. Bloomberg broke the story this
morning that Elon Musk is set to take over the
reins of the company's European and US sales following the
departure of long time lieutenant Ohmead Afshaft. For more, I
want to get out to Bloomberg's Craig Trudell. This comes
in advance of likely global sales data tomorrow, right. But
(03:42):
what we're learning from sources we broke this colleage story
of our colleagues in Asia is the kind of sense
of who's steering the ship right now at Tesla.
Speaker 7 (03:53):
Yeah, I think this is interesting in light of the
last few months. Right when April rolled around, we saw
that I had really disappointing first quarter deliveries. In May,
Bloomberg spoke with Elon Musk at an economic forum, where
he said, you know what, sales have turned around. We
don't expect to see any shortfall in sales.
Speaker 6 (04:14):
You know.
Speaker 7 (04:14):
I think as the quarter progressed, it became clear that
that was premature, you know, at least to put it charitably,
that Tesla sales had in fact continued to decline. The
expectation among analysts is again for another, you know, call
it in the ballpark of twelve to thirteen percent drop
similar to the first quarter. And you know, Tesla, it
(04:37):
does seem now is looking to sort of shake things
up with Musk, you know, it certainly seems dismissing Afshar
and also taking over those reporting lines from him Craig.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
The irony here, though, is that many would say Elon
is the problem and why sales fell in Europe at least,
maybe not so much in Asia where it's a competition
issue in particular. But meanwhile, the issue, the focus he
had in politics that has so hurt his sales is
now biting him back.
Speaker 6 (05:10):
From a White House perspective.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
It feels like.
Speaker 7 (05:13):
I think that's a perfect, perfectly good sort of counter
argument to make here right in that in Asia we
have not necessarily seen the blowback that we've seen in
the US or Europe, where it doesn't necessarily matter all
that much to a consumer in China how close Elon
Musk is to Donald Trump necessarily, but it does matter
(05:34):
when Musk is exerting himself over the US government to
American car buyers, and over here in Europe Trump is
not particularly popular. He's also inserted himself into European politics,
most notably, I would say, in Germany getting behind the AfD,
which of course is a very polarizing party to say
(05:56):
the least, not only in that country, but in Europe
more broadly. And you know, those sort of combination of factors.
I think, you know, there was a real sort of
question earlier this year how much of this is a
backlash against Musk and how much is it you know,
things going on within the business, the changeover to.
Speaker 6 (06:13):
Right, a refresh model why.
Speaker 7 (06:15):
I think we're seeing more indications that it's not just
the model why, and that the Musk factor is looming
large here as well.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Shares have paired some of their decline, now down five percent,
the session low was seven point seven percent decline. Where
you're showing this chart, Craig, that amidst all of the headlines,
Tesla's market values fall and below one trillion dollars. Let's
go back to the political Kaylee was explaining the tension
between Musk and President Trump around the Big Beautiful Bill
and the issue of EV subsidy.
Speaker 6 (06:44):
Elon.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Musk has been very consistent to his credit that actually
he'd be fine if America did away with subsidies, because
I think my understanding of it is that he feels
Tesla has a lower cost base and more pricing power,
and if subsidies were to go away, which President statements contradict,
it would be more beneficial to Tesla than it would
be other American automakers.
Speaker 6 (07:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (07:07):
And I think our colleague in Bloomberg opinion, Liam Denning,
has has probably made the most you know, convincing counter
argument to that, right, that this is not a matter
of people deciding, you know, whether to buy a Tesla
or another another electric vehicle, that there's also the potential
for consumers to you know, decide, you know what, Rather
(07:29):
than buy a Tesla, I made buy a combustion car
from uh, you know from say a General Motors or
a hybrid from a Toyota, right, and so it's not
necessarily the case that a consumer is only going to
buy an electric vehicle. And sort of stuck on that,
I do think that subsidies. While Musk absolutely to your point,
(07:51):
he's been quite consistent over the years and saying and saying,
you know, do away with subsidies, Tesla will be fine,
I think it's it's hard to sort of take him
at his word in saying that when we're not talking
about a small amount of money for the consumer in
the US. We're talking about up to seventy five hundred
dollars for the you know buyer who who you know.
(08:12):
If this is taken away as the Senate Republicans want
to expedite this, you know, phasing it out in September,
that's a huge deal for Tesla. And it's not just
that that you know, the company is sort of you know,
coming under target from Republicans. It's also you know, things
like funding for manufacturing tax credits, you know, ZEV credits,
(08:33):
regulatory credits set the company sells to other automakers. So
this is a much broader sort of you know, offering
of subsidies or you know, forms of government support that
would really hurt Tesla if they were to go away.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Roughly forty percent of Tesla's profits are at risk due
to the shifting regulatory landscape. That's what JP Morgan Analysts
are currently putting an estimate of th most Creatrudell brilliant
to have you, thank you. Let's talk about owning this
stock should be included and ETFs like that of define
sylviagel Blonski's with us, She's defines ETF CEO CIO and
(09:07):
we start with Tesla and Mosk. I think you've articulated
that you don't have exposure across the ets particularly to Tesla.
Is that because of the role Musk plays or other things?
Speaker 8 (09:18):
Good morning and thank you for having me. No, that's
not really defiant. Specific Our ETFs are in the quantum
computing space, right and six G, which is the next
shed of communication really, So it's just that we don't
happen to you know, track the space or that particular
product within those funds. But that being said, you know,
(09:40):
I think that if there were an opportunity to hold Tesla,
it's not something that we would necessarily be opposed to, right,
I think that a lot of what's happening now is
noise around politics. And you know there is some potential
downside if this tax bill removed seventy five hundred dollars
with of credit. I mean that subsidies affect sales in
the long run. They rarely go on skate if passed.
(10:02):
But you know that aside, I mean, Elon Musk is
still Elon Musk. And you know the genius of robotaxis
and driverless cars in home robots which one day could
could be a staple in all of our homes. You know,
I don't count the company or the CEO out regardless
of this feud.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
So do you not even bake in as a potential
ire of You know, you got plenty of leverage dtfs
for example on single names, and whether or not eventually
it'd want to be giving that sort of volatile exposure
to your own client based Sylvia, would you ever hypothesize
that such a leader in technology could be asked to
leave the country even that seems to me what's being
(10:42):
implied by the president.
Speaker 8 (10:44):
That seems to be it's being implied, And there there
are levered Tesla ETFs out there and they're you know,
they're they're quite popular and are seeing you know, steady
AUM growth and that's just you know, consequence of first
movers got there. But you know, I can't really kinment
too much on the citizenship aspect of it, but it
is my understanding that Elon Musk is the US citizens
(11:05):
I'm not sure you know.
Speaker 6 (11:09):
How that would go, Sylvia.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
When you compose an ETF is key man risk and
the leadership of any given name part of the consideration.
Speaker 8 (11:22):
Yeah, so that that can always be a factor in
terms of you know, it depends on the type of
ETF that is structured and what it does. So you know,
there have certainly been products in the market before where
people are looking at you know, specific leaders and basing
ETFs off of the types of CEOs that they want
to invest in. You know, sometimes that's been in the
ESG space. Sometimes that's been around DEI factors. Other times
(11:45):
it's been around you know, kind of the tech lords
and things like this. And so that's certainly a factor
that can can play in. But I think most of
the time, like when you're thinking about thematic ETX, for example,
you're thinking about a theme and then you try to
build in the products that X fit that theme, so
quantum stocks for example. Right, you're not thinking so much
about the CEO, but more about the company itself and
(12:06):
what it does.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Apple it is considering using AI technology from Anthropic or
from open Ai to power a new version of Siri,
sidelining its own in house models. If Apple moves forward
with using third party models, it will represent a significant
reversal and an acknowledgement that the company is struggling to
compete in general to AI. Blue Meg's Mark German joins
(12:35):
us for more. And this is a significant story, and
it really puts the focus on the in house model
builders and whether that's going to be something commit to.
Speaker 9 (12:47):
Absolutely right, this is a blockbuster idea for Apple. And
I say it's an idea because they haven't made any
final decisions here. Internally, they're investigating whether or not they
should move away from their foundation models. That's their internal
large language model system.
Speaker 6 (13:03):
Two chat GPT.
Speaker 9 (13:04):
From OpenAI, claud from Entthropic, or a different provider to
power SII specifically, as you know, Siri hasn't really worked
well for years, Right, and even with Apple Intelligence in
a move to generative AI. It hasn't improved, and it's
been over a year since they announced these AI features,
and so they're taking a hard look if they should
be using someone else's back end. Be a similar situation
(13:27):
to Amazon, which uses claud for the new Alexa, and
of course Samsung, which uses Google Gemini to power their
AI system.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Mark Apple's up one point seven percent today. It closed
up two percent yesterday. There's a lot of evidence that
the market is paying attention to this reporting. Part of
what you reported is that Apple is asked Anthropic and
open AI to go away and develop versions of their
models that can run on Apple's cloud infrastructure, which also
relies on custom silicon. Could you explain that a bit.
Speaker 9 (13:57):
So Right now, Apple has two types of AI, just
to simplify it.
Speaker 6 (14:01):
They have on device AI and.
Speaker 9 (14:03):
That means the large language models run on the iPhone,
the iPad.
Speaker 6 (14:06):
The Mac themselves. That's for lower.
Speaker 9 (14:08):
Tier tasks like summarizing an email. Then they have cloud
based AI. They call that private cloud compute. This is
for summarizing very long articles. This is for writing blocks
of text. And Apple wants to use either Entropic or
open AI, or at least they're considering them in the cloud.
That's because those models require a lot more processing power
(14:29):
and that can't be done on the phone itself. It's
also more private. Instead of having models from a third
party running deep into the iPhone infrastructure, they'll be running
in the cloud, keep things more sectioned off from user data.
And so that's the way they're looking about this. The
idea here is that they're training these models right now
in thropic and open AI. Apple's going to evaluate to
(14:51):
see who's the best, and they very may well decide
they're going to keep going with Apple Foundation models. Concurrently,
they're developing a version of Siri for next spring that
uses Apple Foundation models, but that it's a competing project
to this open AI and anthropic idea.
Speaker 6 (15:07):
So we'll see what they end up doing.
Speaker 9 (15:08):
But the fact that they're heavily considering and evaluating this
tells you everything you.
Speaker 6 (15:12):
Need to know.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Bloomberg's Mark German, thank you very much. Now, Mark Zuckerberg
has announced the restructuring of metas Artificial Intelligence group, now
called Meta Superintelligence Labs, and he's stocking it full of
hires from rival AI firms. Here with the story, bloombergs
Kirt Wagner and actually This is confirmation via an internal
memo from Zuckerberg and the team to metastaff of a
(15:37):
lot of what we've reported over the last month. We
have a superintelligence team. What was new in what Zuckerberg said, Yeah.
Speaker 10 (15:46):
I think what we learned today, to your point ed,
is that this thing is official. We had been talking
and reporting about this for a couple of weeks. Now
I think what's new is that they listed in total,
if you include Alexander Wang, team new hires for this team.
So we did confirm a lot of the new members
of the team.
Speaker 6 (16:05):
And we also learned that Nap Friedman, former.
Speaker 10 (16:08):
CEO GitHub, is going to sort of co run this
new team with Alex Wang. So I get to sence
alex Wange is perhaps in charge with Friedman as his
number two, but either way, these two people are going
to be atop this thing. It was something that I
think we had long speculated and heard about. But again,
all of this is now official, and this you know,
it represents a huge restructuring and also a revision of
(16:34):
what a meta wants to accomplish with AI.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
And the ability and willingness to spend. He articulated that
he's willing to spend hundreds of billions on this race
because there's no point coming second basically cut.
Speaker 10 (16:53):
I think that's the feeling is that if you are
the first two AGI, if you are the first two
human level AI intelligence, that's sort of all that's going
to matter.
Speaker 6 (17:01):
At a certain point.
Speaker 10 (17:02):
I think everyone's going to catch up to this, right,
If this is achievable, everyone will get there. But whoever
is their first not only gets to sort of stake
that claim, gets to use that to benefit recruiting and
other things, but they're also going to be the first
to sort of lower consumers to their various products that have,
you know, an AI chatbot. So for example, if you're meta,
you're looking at the ray band glasses and you think, wow,
(17:23):
if we are the first people to come up with
a human level AI assistant, then ray bands are going
to fly off the shelves. At least that is the hope, right,
And so I do think that while you know, presumably
this might become ubiquitous tech, everyone wants to be there
first for a number of reasons, the primary one being
of course, to sell those products and to get consumers
to their product first before the competitors.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Big tech meets big football. Microsoft in the Premier League
are launching a five year strategic partnership aimed at transforming
how fans engage with the aim of football or soccer,
however you call it, whether it's fantasy football, in match analysis,
even a personal AI companion.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Now we caught up.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Exclusively with Microsoft UKCO. That's Darren Harnman and the Premier
League Chief Commercial Officer Will Brass about the news.
Speaker 11 (18:15):
This is the partnership partnership like we have with the
main Microsoft customers, transforming the core of how the Premier
League works and operates and runs their business and extending
into their customers, which is the fans. And so the
fan experience is incredibly experienced.
Speaker 6 (18:31):
And it's just a privilege to be able to leverage.
Speaker 11 (18:34):
The power of the Microsoft co pilot and the broader
AI technologies that we have to reach so many people
in such a positive way.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Well, same question to you, who's paying who? What's the
commercial value of this deal to you?
Speaker 6 (18:50):
That's one for us.
Speaker 12 (18:51):
I think ed that what I would say is it's
a truly mutual strategic partnership that we're entering into on
a multi year basis. Were very excited about what the
future may hold in that regard, and of course, as
the Premier League, we're very lucky to work with a
number of genuinely world class businesses and brands. We're a
big part of our strate strategic work around the world.
(19:13):
To add Microsoft to that family is really great moment
for us.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
The wording you use will was add Microsoft. I've been
tracking the Premier League from a data analytics standpoint for
a number of years now. When I came to America
in twenty eighteen, I really sort of took on board
the role that the in game experience plays, but on
the analytics and data side, fans have an essatial appetite
for it. In twenty twenty one, you had a similar
(19:39):
partnership with Oracle right on the analytics and data side.
Is this announcement you replacing Oracle with Azure and Microsoft
or is it in addition to.
Speaker 12 (19:52):
So the partnership with Oracle has now expired and this
relationship with Microsoft is a new one. It Ultimately, all
of our partnerships are different in nature, so there isn't
a direct reader cross between the work that we did
with Oracle the work that we do with Microsoft. Microsoft
are becoming a partner in light of the technology transformation
(20:14):
story that we're trying to go through. We think they're
the perfect partner for that, and so we're excited to
be to be moving ahead.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
To day together.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Moving ahead today, Darren paint, what five years from now
looks like it's a five year strategic partnership. How will
my engagement with the Premier League have changed? You think?
Speaker 6 (20:33):
Yeah, I think this is the future of football.
Speaker 11 (20:35):
It's a data driven drama. It's smarter stats, it's deeper stories,
it's a better connection of the fan to what's going on,
and it's a life cycle.
Speaker 6 (20:46):
So you know, how do I start my experience.
Speaker 11 (20:48):
On the game day, what's my experience during the game,
and how do I interact and engage post the game
based on the experiences I've had. And so as we
engage and as we grow this partnership, we'll take feedback
from the fans directly and we'll begin to build out
even more capability that you will you'll find on day
one as we launched today, that.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Was Microsoft UK CEO Darren Hardman and the Premier League
Chief Commercial Officer Will Bruss Coming up, we're going to
talk a lot more about Tesla as the stocks falls
from this reunited reignited feud carry between Elon Musk and
President Trump. Down five percent off session lows, but belower
trillion dollars in market cap. For all the focus on
(21:30):
robotaxi AI this week, it's all about selling cars. Welcome
back to Bloomberg Tech. We're really zeroed in right now
on ev makers around the world. We're just going to
start with BYD, the Chinese ev maker, ten percent sales
growth in June. But remember part of the strategy is
(21:51):
to go for mass volume growth of BYD through heavy
discounts in competition with Tesla down five point three percent.
Carow We've been talking about how it's off session loads.
I think at one point it was down seven point
seven percent, But this is a company that has fallen
below a trillion dollars of market value because Elon Musk
and President Trump's relationship, well, I think it's changing.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And the reignited feud is upon us because we already
knew they had a monumental bust up but previous months
and now that argument continues. Danahal breaks it all down
for us, and this is going back to the frustration
Elon Musk seems to have with the tax bill. But
many would try and interpret that this is actually about
(22:36):
ev subsidies.
Speaker 13 (22:39):
I think it's about a lot of things. I mean,
Musk is very worried about the deficit and has been
for quite some time. And the whole premise of DOGE
was that it was going to cut government waste for
odd and abuse.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
Simultaneously, you have this crazy.
Speaker 13 (22:51):
Bill moving through the Senate that adds an enormous amount
of money to the deficit, gives billions of dollars to ICE,
kind of expands the veillance state, cuts people off of
Medicaid snap, And you know, Elon Overnight was like, this
is a bad bill, and he is threatening to primary people,
he's threatening to start a third party, and so he
(23:12):
and he and President Trump have kind of gotten back
into it. And so you know, Musk is using the
power of his bully pulpit to really kind of warn
the Senate and politicians that he is not a fan
of this bill. And so it's kind of reignited this
long shimmering feud between the two of them that has
kind of, you know, been off and on for a while.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
In the last few minutes, the President has been speaking
in Florida, ahead of ahead of his alligator Alcatraz tool.
Let's just listen to what he said. Elon Musk is
ripping into this bill again.
Speaker 14 (23:42):
Are you concerned that Republicans are going to be swayed
by month and his money?
Speaker 6 (23:45):
No, I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
I think what's going to happen is Doze is gonna
look at Musk, and if those looks at Musk, We're
gonna say, but fortune, thank you very much, everybody here.
Speaker 6 (23:53):
I don't think he should be playing that game with me.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
That there's two parts to the President's accusations will claim
against must one that he does feel upset about the
EB subsidy, but also that Musk himself is subsidized. And
in the course of your reporting over the last month
or so, we've explained how across Elon Inc. There is
exposure that Elon Musk has across subsidies but also grants
and key government contracts.
Speaker 6 (24:18):
Oh for sure.
Speaker 13 (24:19):
I mean if you look at SpaceX, I mean SpaceX
is a key government contractor. They have loads billions of
dollars in contracts with NASA and with the Pentagon, And
I mean that is you know, I think I think
that SpaceX is actually quite significant in terms of just
the funding that it gets from the US government, and
so you're seeing two alpha males kind of go at
(24:40):
each other. It's curious to me that Trump is saying
that Doge would look at Musk, because like, what is
Doge without Musk?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Really, Like, you know, I'm not.
Speaker 13 (24:49):
Entirely sure who's running the show there, but this is
just yeah, this is just sort of wild. I mean,
And the Senate has not voted yet as far as
I know, but it's coming down to the wire and
whether they have the votes to proceed.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah, I think we're getting headlines that are votes close
blue most anahole from the Elon Inc. Team, Thank you
very much. Let's stay with Tesla. Tesla shareholder, but also Elon.
Musk's critic, Ross Gerbert, the Gerbert Kawazaki SIA and President
took to X last night following comments from the President
saying it seems Elon is destined to find out who
(25:22):
is more powerful. Ross Gerbert is here with us. Ross,
I just wanted to give the context of your position,
Like you are a long term believer in the broader
Tesla story, right, your concern and what you go on
to say about the board in particular, is that this
political fight between Elon Musk and the president is not
to the benefit of the company. Have I got that right?
Speaker 13 (25:44):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (25:44):
Yeah, I mean it's horrific for the company, to be honest.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Have you done the actual math ross, Because what's interesting
is I think JP Morgan analysts have said maybe about
forty percent of profits are exposed here to regulatory shifts
and the landscape. Do you think that's as much as
we could see a dentop? Is it more or less
than that?
Speaker 6 (26:06):
No?
Speaker 14 (26:06):
I think it could be much more detrimental because when
you look at pricing of evs like Tesla's in particular,
there's a severe supply.
Speaker 6 (26:14):
And demanding balance because the demand for Tesla.
Speaker 14 (26:16):
Has dropped off, so people don't really want the cars,
and the discounts that they get through the seventy five
hundred dollars credit is a substantial amount of money relative
to let's say a forty thousand dollars car, So the
typical Tesla buyers is actually.
Speaker 6 (26:31):
Sort of like a millennial.
Speaker 14 (26:32):
So these price increases definitely are bad. And when you
go into areas like I'm in Europe now, I mean
the hate for Elon is huge.
Speaker 6 (26:41):
You know.
Speaker 14 (26:42):
I'm in Italy where this was a country that you know,
Americans fought and died to end fascism here and had
a horrible experience under Berlusconi, which is like a billionaire
like Musk, and so people are just done with it.
Speaker 6 (26:55):
So this is just another like nail.
Speaker 14 (26:58):
In the coffin which I tweeted that really is going
to hurt Tesla, and I'm very upset about it, you know,
I just think this is totally unnecessary.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I mean, I think we can bring up what you've
been posting a little bit earlier, Ross, but I'm really
interested as to the latest breaking news out of Bloomberg
has been that Elon has helped reassert himself into the
sales role in Europe in the US of Tesla. Now
do you think that's.
Speaker 6 (27:22):
A good move?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Do you want him more involved or is it the
fact that you know, if he's impacting the way people
feel in Italy and around the EU, is that a
good thing or no?
Speaker 6 (27:32):
Well, there's no Tesla's in Italy. I mean, we're not
selling any here.
Speaker 14 (27:34):
I've seen a handful at most, and I've driven all
over the place, you know, and you know, the way
I look at it is this Elon has a talent obviously,
and he's a very successful engineer and manufacturer, has built Tesla.
Speaker 6 (27:48):
Up into being a huge company.
Speaker 14 (27:50):
But from a marketing and media perspective, he's destroyed his
image and the more involved he is, it's actually worse
from a marketing perspective, and especially because he's not coming
out and saying, hey, you know, I'm sorry for you know,
sort of pissing off everybody I've been wrong, you know
about Trump and you know.
Speaker 6 (28:07):
Please buy my cars.
Speaker 14 (28:09):
It's more just fighting and political infighting and then threatening
to start another party.
Speaker 6 (28:14):
You know, you're at this kind of point where it's.
Speaker 14 (28:16):
Like, what is this guy doing? You know, like you're
supposed to be selling cars and Rogo taxis and instead
we're in a fight with the President of the United States,
which he enabled and helped empower. But I'm sorry, Elon,
President Trump is way more powerful than you. I mean,
he's literally bombing Iran and you're messing with this guy.
(28:38):
So it's just, quite frankly, it's stupid.
Speaker 6 (28:42):
Ross Musk has.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Been consistent through social media posts videos that he's okay
with the idea that subsidies in particular direct consumer subsidies
go away, because he argues Tesla has this lower cost
base and pricing power, and the President obviously his comments
to dispute that. You know, he keeps claiming that Elon
is upset. What do you think about the doing away
(29:06):
with subsidies and how Tesla's position in the market would
be impacted.
Speaker 14 (29:11):
Well, it turns out that tesla real competition isn't as
much evs as it turns out to be, like hybrid
vehicles like the Audi I'm driving here in Italy, which
is actually a great vehicle and it gets about twice
the gas mileerge that a regular gas car would get.
Speaker 6 (29:26):
It's not an EV so it doesn't have the same benefit.
Speaker 14 (29:29):
But when you actually look at competitions just on a
regular basis of all vehicles, you know, there's lots of
choices consumers have and many of them are energy efficient,
even if they're not EV's and they're making those choices,
and we're seeing in the numbers, not to mention, we're
seeing EV sales like.
Speaker 6 (29:44):
In Europe actually sore and it's just not Tesla. So
this idea that it's not going to hurt.
Speaker 14 (29:50):
Tesla because the benefits are taken away, you know, is
really just again, it just doesn't make any sense, and
it goes against the fundamental theories of economics. So making
the car more expensive means less people will buy it.
It's simple as that, and they already have a hard
time soul in the car.
Speaker 6 (30:08):
Ross.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
I see on the Blueberg terminal that gerber Kawasaki had
around two hundred and thirty five thousand shares is at
the end of March, and that you'd been a seller
of the stock. And I just point out as the
audience because when I said you were coming on, some
people say, well, gerber Kawasaki doesn't even hold any shares
at all. So I'm putting that out there. In your
post on X you cited the board. The idea that
(30:28):
Elon Musk's political statements are not helpful is not unique
to you.
Speaker 6 (30:33):
Others share it.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Have you had anything from the board or do you
have any sense if the board has any plan to
act on this.
Speaker 6 (30:42):
No, they're not going to do anything.
Speaker 14 (30:43):
And we all know that they are all paid by
Elon and work for Elon, and it's not an independent board.
Speaker 6 (30:48):
And Delaware courts have said this over and over again.
Speaker 14 (30:51):
There's been one change to the board since they did
have one independent board member recently. But you know, the
fact of matter, they're not going to do anything about it,
you know, and I think there's some confusion. I run
an ETF GK ETF, and we sold our Tesla yesterday.
We had a small position left, and that's just the
you know, one small part of what we We manage
over three and a half billion dollars for clients at
(31:13):
Gerba Kolas Hockey.
Speaker 6 (31:14):
And many of them are big, long.
Speaker 14 (31:16):
Time Tesla diehard shareholders, and that's who I really represent.
Speaker 6 (31:20):
They love Tesla like I love Tesla, but Elon is
not doing what's best for us shareholders.
Speaker 14 (31:26):
So we still have I checked yesterday over sixty million
dollars in Tesla stock for our clients. And that's what
I'm advocating for because I personally have sold a lot
on my personal position. I still own some personally, and
you know, my cost basis is two dollars and fifty
cents of shares. But I like keeping some shares just
because it was one of the best trades of my life.
But you know, I just don't see with evaluation of
(31:48):
one hundred and fifty times earnings when you have Microsoft, Nvidia,
and Google and Meta all trading under let's say forty
or thirty pes what's the justification for the valuation robots
and a ROBOTAXI that doesn't really work.
Speaker 6 (32:03):
It just seems like there's a big disconnect here.
Speaker 14 (32:07):
And eventually this reckoning will come as the stock market
ultimately does work these things out.
Speaker 6 (32:12):
So you know, I cost investors.
Speaker 14 (32:14):
There's going to be a cost at some time for
all this, and it maybe hasn't happened yet. Even though
the stock is down twenty five percent this year, you
could easily see the stock drop in half if this continues.
So I'm very concerned about the future of Tesla and
for my shareholders. So that's why I'm a year and
that's why I advocate on behalf of Tesla's shareholders.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
It's bloombag tech. You are looking at a live shot
of the principle and check out the bloom mag Tech podcast.
You'll find it on the terminal as well as online
on Apple, Spotify and iHeart.
Speaker 6 (32:43):
This is bloombg.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Time for the VC Spotlight and here with me is
Mark Wigobba, managing director at jen Catalyst. You have something
that's called roll up strategy, or rather AI enabled roll
up strategy. So you say, we are a global investment firm,
but we're also a global transformation firm.
Speaker 6 (33:11):
Yes, explain the strategy absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 15 (33:14):
We're seeing AI having a huge potential in many industries
such as legal, it call centers, hoy management, but these
businesses are more traditionally services businesses. So what we're doing
is we're backing teams that are enabling both services and
software and we think that can be empowered by AI.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Right, one of the portfolio companies or most recent investments
is Udia. Correct and on the Facebook you say, well,
is this a Harvey but it's not. The whole point
is that it's kind of like back office help and
AI makes it better.
Speaker 6 (33:43):
Absolutely.
Speaker 15 (33:43):
So with Udia, for example, it's really targeting the General Council,
so the in house law firm versus the external law
firm instead. And so Udia is a really powerful way
to have services and software in one platform, really helping
those in house legal teams versus third party law firms.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
It's a fascinating tactic in the way in which you
are helping build create. How big is the creation portfolio?
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Now?
Speaker 1 (34:08):
How much money have you raised to put to work
in this way.
Speaker 6 (34:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 15 (34:12):
General Catalysts raised eight billion dollars last year. The Creation
Fund is a billion and a half. Of that, we're
putting about half of the money into these hybrid AI
native services plus software opportunities. So when we look at
where the spend is, for example, in UDIA and in
legal services, it's not necessarily in the software piece. A
lot of the spend is on external third parties, and
so can we bring in technology like AI software but
(34:34):
also services pieces within the in house legal parties in
order to really scale out their businesses.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Under scale talent is needed, and I bring it back
to some of the stories that we are talking about
day in, day out of the megacat names and the
fight for talent and how expensive it has become. How
are you sourcing those want to be entrepreneurs who could
be being paid phenomenal amounts if they just jump ship
from an Apple or an AI over to Meta right now.
Speaker 15 (35:02):
Absolutely, a lot of the founders we're backing on Creation
want to create these hybrid services plus software AI native
style companies. So they want to be the next generation
Constellation Software or transdim or Danaher. They really want to
build these large compounders that can grow in the public markets.
And so we're seeing the answer is not just in
giving a software solution, but it's really in doing a
(35:23):
hybrid services plus software business. And so many of them
want to create these compounders that they see growing quickly
in the public markets but empowered by AI. And the
way we looked at it is we looked at over
seventy industries and we found in ten of them AI
software could automate over thirty percent of tasks. So those
are the ten industries that we've been going after in
order to actually buy out these companies and improve their
(35:44):
operations so they can take on more revenue and they
can have more business. So for us, this is really
an AI growth story. How do we get AI software
in the hands of these compound founders who can provide
both software and service businesses and really grow and compound
traditional accounting firms, traditional IT HIA management companies, really getting
this AI native software and automation in the hands of
(36:05):
these businesses.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Mark Over the years, we're very used to seeing general
catalyst flush left leading rounds or partnering very high up
in the cap table, and all kinds of rounds, But
it's competitive out there.
Speaker 6 (36:17):
Absolutely. It is the roll up.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Strategy a point of difference because you know, as far
as I can tell, founders right now have their pick
when it comes to term sheets and who they might
take capital from. Capital is almost like commoditized in some sense.
Speaker 15 (36:30):
Absolutely, it's an extremely busy time in venture and in
private equity. So what we've been thinking about is what
are the most ways to help and support a founder,
And we really do think of General Catalyst that is
our mantra.
Speaker 6 (36:41):
So we're helping incubate companies.
Speaker 15 (36:42):
We're helping companies buy out their distribution and the data
they need to grow, which is the role up strategy.
We're helping folks on customer acquisition with our CVF fund,
We're incubating businesses in house. So General Catalyst is really
working to find the most ways to partner with founders,
and we think this AI needive trend is a really
great way to do it. For the first time, there's
an opportunity to actually buy out your client list and
(37:04):
in doing so buy the data needed to have a
better AI native solutions, whether that's for nursing, whether that's
for call centers, whether that's for joy managers, actually owning
the data and the distribution is extremely important in refining
the model and having the best product on market.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
We can go back to Udia or Crescendo's case studies,
what is the biggest cost at the moment they are
not relying on their own infrastructure or necessarily requiring the
talent to build their own models, So what is it
that's expensive for them?
Speaker 15 (37:33):
The hardest part in all of this is really the
go to market. Because we're seeing on the AI side,
whether it's Anthropic or Open Ai or Google, every three
to six months we see amazing improvements in logic and
reasoning and math. The hardest part of this AI revolution
is really getting it into the hands of the end customers.
Speaker 6 (37:49):
It's the go to market piece.
Speaker 15 (37:51):
Many of these industries are fragmented, they're hard to sell into,
they don't like buying technology products, and even if they
buy them.
Speaker 6 (37:57):
It's very difficult to implement them.
Speaker 15 (37:59):
So for us, I mean, the hardest part is really
the go to market and getting the distribution, and that's
why the AI enabled roll up approach is solving in
many ways the hardest part of kind of an AI transformation.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Story not to get too ahead of ourselves. But as
you are creating, as you're harnessing, as you're transforming, I'm
sure you're thinking about an exit strategy and eventually are
you thinking as a man who's done M and A
in the past, or to go meet the company you
found before? Is M and A the real path here
for some of these roll ups, it.
Speaker 15 (38:27):
Could be one path, but really the north shining star
is to have these compounders in.
Speaker 6 (38:31):
The public market.
Speaker 15 (38:32):
If you look at the performance of a trans dime,
or you look at Constellation Software or even Berkshire Hathaway
or others holding companies historically that have had better operations
and can buy smaller businesses and then improve them, allow
them to take on more clients, to grow, to become
more profitable, and continue to compound businesses. That has been
a really successful strategy in the public markets.
Speaker 6 (38:53):
We think there's a whole new.
Speaker 15 (38:54):
Generation of these public compounders that are being started right now,
and a lot of the improvements they'll do will be
around AI automation.
Speaker 6 (39:01):
Automating.
Speaker 15 (39:02):
We're basic tasks like customer support or data entry or
translation or summarization or creation of presentations. All of these
things are getting easier and easier to do in AI.
So we're putting together teams that have industry experience and
emine experience coupled with this AI technology experience to go
and actually buy businesses, improve them, and grow them, and
(39:22):
continue to compound. It's a very classic story in the
public market, but with an AI twist we think will
have a major impact.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
As Elon Musk reignites a feud with President Trump over
the tax bill, what does that entail for the company's
autonomous ambitions. It's just a week or so since it
launched its Robotaxi service in Austin, Texas. Mandeep Sing of
Bloomberg Intelligence, our in house analysts, is here with us.
In my reporting, it's been quite clear Elon Musk aligned
himself with the President and went into the White House
(39:58):
to get certain things. One of them was to influence
federal level regulation and frameworks robotaxis. How have you modeled
for that, because you've been writing a lot recently about
weimo in competition with Tesla's autonomous ambitions.
Speaker 16 (40:11):
Yeah. Look, I mean when you size the robotaxi right now,
you know it's pretty small. Uber and Lyft do about
eleven to twelve million rides a day. WEMO at this point,
even with the growth that they have had this year
is about thirteen million annual rides. So really the number
(40:33):
of rights in a day contrast with thirteen million anual rides.
Speaker 6 (40:36):
So that's what we're talking about.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
And with Tesla entering the market, the hope was they
can scale much faster because obviously they can make the
vehicle at one third of the cost and.
Speaker 6 (40:48):
A WAYO vehicle.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
But now I think getting those safety approval city by city,
that's what's taken WEMO so long in terms of ramping
across the five cities, and I think it'll be hard
for Tesla to ramp up. So based on our expectations,
Robotaxi will have a much slower growth than the Hockey
(41:10):
state growth we have seen with chat Epte or you know,
on the LLM side, this is going to be a
much smaller market at least.
Speaker 6 (41:17):
For the foreseeable future.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
So given Mandy the stock is down six straight days
and with some one trillion, is that priced in briefly please?
Speaker 4 (41:26):
Well, not really, because the expectation is Tesla will be
a big player, and that's always been part of their
premium valuation, so clearly there is a scope for expectations
being reset if this robotaxi rollout is expected to come
out much lower than consensus expectations.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
No names saying a Bloomberg Intelligence thank you so much
for the breakdown. Now that does it for this edition
of Bloomberg Tech Ed.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Don't forget to check out the podcast. You know where
to find. It's on all the Bloomberg platforms and online
on Apple, Spotify, and iHeart from London and San Francisco
this week. This is has been and will continue to
be Bloomberg Tech hmm
Bloomberg Tech is alive from coast to coast, with Caroline
Hyde in New York and Edva Lowe in San Francisco.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. The battle between Elon
Musk and President Trump is refueled, clashing over the tax
bill and the EV subsidy question.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Plus Musk is taking oversight of sales in Europe and
the US as investors brace for another ugly delivery number
for Q two, and.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Apple is considering using AI technology from Manthropic or open Ai,
potentially sidelining its own in house models. All right, let's
get straight to our top story. Tesla is down six percent.
It is off session lows. But the President in the
last few minutes reiterating something that he said earlier this morning,
basically that doades should look at Elon Musk. There was
(00:53):
a question to him about whether must should be deported.
There is a clash over a bill. Let's get to
those comments from earlier today, Rob, thank your luck.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
We might have to put doge on Elon. You know,
you know, doj Doji is the monster that has that
might have to go back and eat Elon.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Will that be there?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Of He gets a lot of subsidies, Peter, But Elon's
very upset that the easy mandate you're gonna be terminated.
And you know what, when you look at it, who
wants not everybody wants to electric car.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Let's get more on the feud Elon Musk versus the
White House remokes Kaylee lines joins us for more and
yet further comments coming from the President that he's going
to be looking more deeply into Elon's businesses.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
Yeah, and Caroline, this was really reignited after Elon Musk
has refired up his criticism of this one big, beautiful bill,
whether or not you assign the blame for that because
of fiscal responsibility concerns, Musks has, in his view that
this adds too much to the deficit and undermines the
work of Doge or what President Trump and other Republicans
have suggested, which is just that Musk is upset about
ev subsidies. Either way, Elon Musk has gone as far
(02:03):
as to say that any Republican who campaigned on lessening
the debt burden of the United States and then voted
for a big addition to the debt would face a
primary funded potentially by Elon Musk. He said they will
lose their primary next year if it is the last
thing I do on this earth keeping in mind, of course,
he deployed almost two hundred and eighty million dollars in
the twenty twenty.
Speaker 6 (02:21):
Four election cycle.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
So that is what President Trump and part has responded
to here. He just reiterated down in Florida that he
wants the Department of Government Efficiency, which Elon Musk was running,
to look into Musk's businesses, calling him the most subsidized
person on Earth, suggesting if those government subsidies were to
go away, Elon Musk might have to go back to
South Africa, though it's unclear how exactly that would work.
Is Yes, there is a rollback of EV subsidies, for example,
(02:43):
in this legislation that could hit Tesla, But for another
Musk company like SpaceX, which basically is the only reliable
way to get US astronauts too and from the International
Space Station, that may be a lot harder of a
relationship to disrupt. Then there's the other threat, of course,
that President Trump has suggested he may act on today.
When he was asked directly if you would look at
deporting Elon Musk, he said he'll have to look into
(03:05):
that knowing that, yes, Elon Musk was born in South Africa,
but he is a US citizen, so it's not clear
either how that would work. And it's also not clear
whether we could see an escalation in this tension as
we saw last month. Elon Musk for now was saying
that while he is tempted to escalate, he'll refrain from
doing so.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Bloomberg's Katie Lines in Washington, d C. Thank you very much.
Let's stick with Tesca Tesla. Bloomberg broke the story this
morning that Elon Musk is set to take over the
reins of the company's European and US sales following the
departure of long time lieutenant Ohmead Afshaft. For more, I
want to get out to Bloomberg's Craig Trudell. This comes
in advance of likely global sales data tomorrow, right. But
(03:42):
what we're learning from sources we broke this colleage story
of our colleagues in Asia is the kind of sense
of who's steering the ship right now at Tesla.
Speaker 7 (03:53):
Yeah, I think this is interesting in light of the
last few months. Right when April rolled around, we saw
that I had really disappointing first quarter deliveries. In May,
Bloomberg spoke with Elon Musk at an economic forum, where
he said, you know what, sales have turned around. We
don't expect to see any shortfall in sales.
Speaker 6 (04:14):
You know.
Speaker 7 (04:14):
I think as the quarter progressed, it became clear that
that was premature, you know, at least to put it charitably,
that Tesla sales had in fact continued to decline. The
expectation among analysts is again for another, you know, call
it in the ballpark of twelve to thirteen percent drop
similar to the first quarter. And you know, Tesla, it
(04:37):
does seem now is looking to sort of shake things
up with Musk, you know, it certainly seems dismissing Afshar
and also taking over those reporting lines from him Craig.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
The irony here, though, is that many would say Elon
is the problem and why sales fell in Europe at least,
maybe not so much in Asia where it's a competition
issue in particular. But meanwhile, the issue, the focus he
had in politics that has so hurt his sales is
now biting him back.
Speaker 6 (05:10):
From a White House perspective.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
It feels like.
Speaker 7 (05:13):
I think that's a perfect, perfectly good sort of counter
argument to make here right in that in Asia we
have not necessarily seen the blowback that we've seen in
the US or Europe, where it doesn't necessarily matter all
that much to a consumer in China how close Elon
Musk is to Donald Trump necessarily, but it does matter
(05:34):
when Musk is exerting himself over the US government to
American car buyers, and over here in Europe Trump is
not particularly popular. He's also inserted himself into European politics,
most notably, I would say, in Germany getting behind the AfD,
which of course is a very polarizing party to say
(05:56):
the least, not only in that country, but in Europe
more broadly. And you know, those sort of combination of factors.
I think, you know, there was a real sort of
question earlier this year how much of this is a
backlash against Musk and how much is it you know,
things going on within the business, the changeover to.
Speaker 6 (06:13):
Right, a refresh model why.
Speaker 7 (06:15):
I think we're seeing more indications that it's not just
the model why, and that the Musk factor is looming
large here as well.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Shares have paired some of their decline, now down five percent,
the session low was seven point seven percent decline. Where
you're showing this chart, Craig, that amidst all of the headlines,
Tesla's market values fall and below one trillion dollars. Let's
go back to the political Kaylee was explaining the tension
between Musk and President Trump around the Big Beautiful Bill
and the issue of EV subsidy.
Speaker 6 (06:44):
Elon.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Musk has been very consistent to his credit that actually
he'd be fine if America did away with subsidies, because
I think my understanding of it is that he feels
Tesla has a lower cost base and more pricing power,
and if subsidies were to go away, which President statements contradict,
it would be more beneficial to Tesla than it would
be other American automakers.
Speaker 6 (07:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (07:07):
And I think our colleague in Bloomberg opinion, Liam Denning,
has has probably made the most you know, convincing counter
argument to that, right, that this is not a matter
of people deciding, you know, whether to buy a Tesla
or another another electric vehicle, that there's also the potential
for consumers to you know, decide, you know what, Rather
(07:29):
than buy a Tesla, I made buy a combustion car
from uh, you know from say a General Motors or
a hybrid from a Toyota, right, and so it's not
necessarily the case that a consumer is only going to
buy an electric vehicle. And sort of stuck on that,
I do think that subsidies. While Musk absolutely to your point,
(07:51):
he's been quite consistent over the years and saying and saying,
you know, do away with subsidies, Tesla will be fine,
I think it's it's hard to sort of take him
at his word in saying that when we're not talking
about a small amount of money for the consumer in
the US. We're talking about up to seventy five hundred
dollars for the you know buyer who who you know.
(08:12):
If this is taken away as the Senate Republicans want
to expedite this, you know, phasing it out in September,
that's a huge deal for Tesla. And it's not just
that that you know, the company is sort of you know,
coming under target from Republicans. It's also you know, things
like funding for manufacturing tax credits, you know, ZEV credits,
(08:33):
regulatory credits set the company sells to other automakers. So
this is a much broader sort of you know, offering
of subsidies or you know, forms of government support that
would really hurt Tesla if they were to go away.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Roughly forty percent of Tesla's profits are at risk due
to the shifting regulatory landscape. That's what JP Morgan Analysts
are currently putting an estimate of th most Creatrudell brilliant
to have you, thank you. Let's talk about owning this
stock should be included and ETFs like that of define
sylviagel Blonski's with us, She's defines ETF CEO CIO and
(09:07):
we start with Tesla and Mosk. I think you've articulated
that you don't have exposure across the ets particularly to Tesla.
Is that because of the role Musk plays or other things?
Speaker 8 (09:18):
Good morning and thank you for having me. No, that's
not really defiant. Specific Our ETFs are in the quantum
computing space, right and six G, which is the next
shed of communication really, So it's just that we don't
happen to you know, track the space or that particular
product within those funds. But that being said, you know,
(09:40):
I think that if there were an opportunity to hold Tesla,
it's not something that we would necessarily be opposed to, right,
I think that a lot of what's happening now is
noise around politics. And you know there is some potential
downside if this tax bill removed seventy five hundred dollars
with of credit. I mean that subsidies affect sales in
the long run. They rarely go on skate if passed.
(10:02):
But you know that aside, I mean, Elon Musk is
still Elon Musk. And you know the genius of robotaxis
and driverless cars in home robots which one day could
could be a staple in all of our homes. You know,
I don't count the company or the CEO out regardless
of this feud.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
So do you not even bake in as a potential
ire of You know, you got plenty of leverage dtfs
for example on single names, and whether or not eventually
it'd want to be giving that sort of volatile exposure
to your own client based Sylvia, would you ever hypothesize
that such a leader in technology could be asked to
leave the country even that seems to me what's being
(10:42):
implied by the president.
Speaker 8 (10:44):
That seems to be it's being implied, And there there
are levered Tesla ETFs out there and they're you know,
they're they're quite popular and are seeing you know, steady
AUM growth and that's just you know, consequence of first
movers got there. But you know, I can't really kinment
too much on the citizenship aspect of it, but it
is my understanding that Elon Musk is the US citizens
(11:05):
I'm not sure you know.
Speaker 6 (11:09):
How that would go, Sylvia.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
When you compose an ETF is key man risk and
the leadership of any given name part of the consideration.
Speaker 8 (11:22):
Yeah, so that that can always be a factor in
terms of you know, it depends on the type of
ETF that is structured and what it does. So you know,
there have certainly been products in the market before where
people are looking at you know, specific leaders and basing
ETFs off of the types of CEOs that they want
to invest in. You know, sometimes that's been in the
ESG space. Sometimes that's been around DEI factors. Other times
(11:45):
it's been around you know, kind of the tech lords
and things like this. And so that's certainly a factor
that can can play in. But I think most of
the time, like when you're thinking about thematic ETX, for example,
you're thinking about a theme and then you try to
build in the products that X fit that theme, so
quantum stocks for example. Right, you're not thinking so much
about the CEO, but more about the company itself and
(12:06):
what it does.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Apple it is considering using AI technology from Anthropic or
from open Ai to power a new version of Siri,
sidelining its own in house models. If Apple moves forward
with using third party models, it will represent a significant
reversal and an acknowledgement that the company is struggling to
compete in general to AI. Blue Meg's Mark German joins
(12:35):
us for more. And this is a significant story, and
it really puts the focus on the in house model
builders and whether that's going to be something commit to.
Speaker 9 (12:47):
Absolutely right, this is a blockbuster idea for Apple. And
I say it's an idea because they haven't made any
final decisions here. Internally, they're investigating whether or not they
should move away from their foundation models. That's their internal
large language model system.
Speaker 6 (13:03):
Two chat GPT.
Speaker 9 (13:04):
From OpenAI, claud from Entthropic, or a different provider to
power SII specifically, as you know, Siri hasn't really worked
well for years, Right, and even with Apple Intelligence in
a move to generative AI. It hasn't improved, and it's
been over a year since they announced these AI features,
and so they're taking a hard look if they should
be using someone else's back end. Be a similar situation
(13:27):
to Amazon, which uses claud for the new Alexa, and
of course Samsung, which uses Google Gemini to power their
AI system.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Mark Apple's up one point seven percent today. It closed
up two percent yesterday. There's a lot of evidence that
the market is paying attention to this reporting. Part of
what you reported is that Apple is asked Anthropic and
open AI to go away and develop versions of their
models that can run on Apple's cloud infrastructure, which also
relies on custom silicon. Could you explain that a bit.
Speaker 9 (13:57):
So Right now, Apple has two types of AI, just
to simplify it.
Speaker 6 (14:01):
They have on device AI and.
Speaker 9 (14:03):
That means the large language models run on the iPhone,
the iPad.
Speaker 6 (14:06):
The Mac themselves. That's for lower.
Speaker 9 (14:08):
Tier tasks like summarizing an email. Then they have cloud
based AI. They call that private cloud compute. This is
for summarizing very long articles. This is for writing blocks
of text. And Apple wants to use either Entropic or
open AI, or at least they're considering them in the cloud.
That's because those models require a lot more processing power
(14:29):
and that can't be done on the phone itself. It's
also more private. Instead of having models from a third
party running deep into the iPhone infrastructure, they'll be running
in the cloud, keep things more sectioned off from user data.
And so that's the way they're looking about this. The
idea here is that they're training these models right now
in thropic and open AI. Apple's going to evaluate to
(14:51):
see who's the best, and they very may well decide
they're going to keep going with Apple Foundation models. Concurrently,
they're developing a version of Siri for next spring that
uses Apple Foundation models, but that it's a competing project
to this open AI and anthropic idea.
Speaker 6 (15:07):
So we'll see what they end up doing.
Speaker 9 (15:08):
But the fact that they're heavily considering and evaluating this
tells you everything you.
Speaker 6 (15:12):
Need to know.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Bloomberg's Mark German, thank you very much. Now, Mark Zuckerberg
has announced the restructuring of metas Artificial Intelligence group, now
called Meta Superintelligence Labs, and he's stocking it full of
hires from rival AI firms. Here with the story, bloombergs
Kirt Wagner and actually This is confirmation via an internal
memo from Zuckerberg and the team to metastaff of a
(15:37):
lot of what we've reported over the last month. We
have a superintelligence team. What was new in what Zuckerberg said, Yeah.
Speaker 10 (15:46):
I think what we learned today, to your point ed,
is that this thing is official. We had been talking
and reporting about this for a couple of weeks. Now
I think what's new is that they listed in total,
if you include Alexander Wang, team new hires for this team.
So we did confirm a lot of the new members
of the team.
Speaker 6 (16:05):
And we also learned that Nap Friedman, former.
Speaker 10 (16:08):
CEO GitHub, is going to sort of co run this
new team with Alex Wang. So I get to sence
alex Wange is perhaps in charge with Friedman as his
number two, but either way, these two people are going
to be atop this thing. It was something that I
think we had long speculated and heard about. But again,
all of this is now official, and this you know,
it represents a huge restructuring and also a revision of
(16:34):
what a meta wants to accomplish with AI.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
And the ability and willingness to spend. He articulated that
he's willing to spend hundreds of billions on this race
because there's no point coming second basically cut.
Speaker 10 (16:53):
I think that's the feeling is that if you are
the first two AGI, if you are the first two
human level AI intelligence, that's sort of all that's going
to matter.
Speaker 6 (17:01):
At a certain point.
Speaker 10 (17:02):
I think everyone's going to catch up to this, right,
If this is achievable, everyone will get there. But whoever
is their first not only gets to sort of stake
that claim, gets to use that to benefit recruiting and
other things, but they're also going to be the first
to sort of lower consumers to their various products that have,
you know, an AI chatbot. So for example, if you're meta,
you're looking at the ray band glasses and you think, wow,
(17:23):
if we are the first people to come up with
a human level AI assistant, then ray bands are going
to fly off the shelves. At least that is the hope, right,
And so I do think that while you know, presumably
this might become ubiquitous tech, everyone wants to be there
first for a number of reasons, the primary one being
of course, to sell those products and to get consumers
to their product first before the competitors.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Big tech meets big football. Microsoft in the Premier League
are launching a five year strategic partnership aimed at transforming
how fans engage with the aim of football or soccer,
however you call it, whether it's fantasy football, in match analysis,
even a personal AI companion.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Now we caught up.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Exclusively with Microsoft UKCO. That's Darren Harnman and the Premier
League Chief Commercial Officer Will Brass about the news.
Speaker 11 (18:15):
This is the partnership partnership like we have with the
main Microsoft customers, transforming the core of how the Premier
League works and operates and runs their business and extending
into their customers, which is the fans. And so the
fan experience is incredibly experienced.
Speaker 6 (18:31):
And it's just a privilege to be able to leverage.
Speaker 11 (18:34):
The power of the Microsoft co pilot and the broader
AI technologies that we have to reach so many people
in such a positive way.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Well, same question to you, who's paying who? What's the
commercial value of this deal to you?
Speaker 6 (18:50):
That's one for us.
Speaker 12 (18:51):
I think ed that what I would say is it's
a truly mutual strategic partnership that we're entering into on
a multi year basis. Were very excited about what the
future may hold in that regard, and of course, as
the Premier League, we're very lucky to work with a
number of genuinely world class businesses and brands. We're a
big part of our strate strategic work around the world.
(19:13):
To add Microsoft to that family is really great moment
for us.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
The wording you use will was add Microsoft. I've been
tracking the Premier League from a data analytics standpoint for
a number of years now. When I came to America
in twenty eighteen, I really sort of took on board
the role that the in game experience plays, but on
the analytics and data side, fans have an essatial appetite
for it. In twenty twenty one, you had a similar
(19:39):
partnership with Oracle right on the analytics and data side.
Is this announcement you replacing Oracle with Azure and Microsoft
or is it in addition to.
Speaker 12 (19:52):
So the partnership with Oracle has now expired and this
relationship with Microsoft is a new one. It Ultimately, all
of our partnerships are different in nature, so there isn't
a direct reader cross between the work that we did
with Oracle the work that we do with Microsoft. Microsoft
are becoming a partner in light of the technology transformation
(20:14):
story that we're trying to go through. We think they're
the perfect partner for that, and so we're excited to
be to be moving ahead.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
To day together.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Moving ahead today, Darren paint, what five years from now
looks like it's a five year strategic partnership. How will
my engagement with the Premier League have changed? You think?
Speaker 6 (20:33):
Yeah, I think this is the future of football.
Speaker 11 (20:35):
It's a data driven drama. It's smarter stats, it's deeper stories,
it's a better connection of the fan to what's going on,
and it's a life cycle.
Speaker 6 (20:46):
So you know, how do I start my experience.
Speaker 11 (20:48):
On the game day, what's my experience during the game,
and how do I interact and engage post the game
based on the experiences I've had. And so as we
engage and as we grow this partnership, we'll take feedback
from the fans directly and we'll begin to build out
even more capability that you will you'll find on day
one as we launched today, that.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Was Microsoft UK CEO Darren Hardman and the Premier League
Chief Commercial Officer Will Bruss Coming up, we're going to
talk a lot more about Tesla as the stocks falls
from this reunited reignited feud carry between Elon Musk and
President Trump. Down five percent off session lows, but belower
trillion dollars in market cap. For all the focus on
(21:30):
robotaxi AI this week, it's all about selling cars. Welcome
back to Bloomberg Tech. We're really zeroed in right now
on ev makers around the world. We're just going to
start with BYD, the Chinese ev maker, ten percent sales
growth in June. But remember part of the strategy is
(21:51):
to go for mass volume growth of BYD through heavy
discounts in competition with Tesla down five point three percent.
Carow We've been talking about how it's off session loads.
I think at one point it was down seven point
seven percent, But this is a company that has fallen
below a trillion dollars of market value because Elon Musk
and President Trump's relationship, well, I think it's changing.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And the reignited feud is upon us because we already
knew they had a monumental bust up but previous months
and now that argument continues. Danahal breaks it all down
for us, and this is going back to the frustration
Elon Musk seems to have with the tax bill. But
many would try and interpret that this is actually about
(22:36):
ev subsidies.
Speaker 13 (22:39):
I think it's about a lot of things. I mean,
Musk is very worried about the deficit and has been
for quite some time. And the whole premise of DOGE
was that it was going to cut government waste for
odd and abuse.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
Simultaneously, you have this crazy.
Speaker 13 (22:51):
Bill moving through the Senate that adds an enormous amount
of money to the deficit, gives billions of dollars to ICE,
kind of expands the veillance state, cuts people off of
Medicaid snap, And you know, Elon Overnight was like, this
is a bad bill, and he is threatening to primary people,
he's threatening to start a third party, and so he
(23:12):
and he and President Trump have kind of gotten back
into it. And so you know, Musk is using the
power of his bully pulpit to really kind of warn
the Senate and politicians that he is not a fan
of this bill. And so it's kind of reignited this
long shimmering feud between the two of them that has
kind of, you know, been off and on for a while.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
In the last few minutes, the President has been speaking
in Florida, ahead of ahead of his alligator Alcatraz tool.
Let's just listen to what he said. Elon Musk is
ripping into this bill again.
Speaker 14 (23:42):
Are you concerned that Republicans are going to be swayed
by month and his money?
Speaker 6 (23:45):
No, I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
I think what's going to happen is Doze is gonna
look at Musk, and if those looks at Musk, We're
gonna say, but fortune, thank you very much, everybody here.
Speaker 6 (23:53):
I don't think he should be playing that game with me.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
That there's two parts to the President's accusations will claim
against must one that he does feel upset about the
EB subsidy, but also that Musk himself is subsidized. And
in the course of your reporting over the last month
or so, we've explained how across Elon Inc. There is
exposure that Elon Musk has across subsidies but also grants
and key government contracts.
Speaker 6 (24:18):
Oh for sure.
Speaker 13 (24:19):
I mean if you look at SpaceX, I mean SpaceX
is a key government contractor. They have loads billions of
dollars in contracts with NASA and with the Pentagon, And
I mean that is you know, I think I think
that SpaceX is actually quite significant in terms of just
the funding that it gets from the US government, and
so you're seeing two alpha males kind of go at
(24:40):
each other. It's curious to me that Trump is saying
that Doge would look at Musk, because like, what is
Doge without Musk?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Really, Like, you know, I'm not.
Speaker 13 (24:49):
Entirely sure who's running the show there, but this is
just yeah, this is just sort of wild. I mean,
And the Senate has not voted yet as far as
I know, but it's coming down to the wire and
whether they have the votes to proceed.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah, I think we're getting headlines that are votes close
blue most anahole from the Elon Inc. Team, Thank you
very much. Let's stay with Tesla. Tesla shareholder, but also Elon.
Musk's critic, Ross Gerbert, the Gerbert Kawazaki SIA and President
took to X last night following comments from the President
saying it seems Elon is destined to find out who
(25:22):
is more powerful. Ross Gerbert is here with us. Ross,
I just wanted to give the context of your position,
Like you are a long term believer in the broader
Tesla story, right, your concern and what you go on
to say about the board in particular, is that this
political fight between Elon Musk and the president is not
to the benefit of the company. Have I got that right?
Speaker 13 (25:44):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (25:44):
Yeah, I mean it's horrific for the company, to be honest.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Have you done the actual math ross, Because what's interesting
is I think JP Morgan analysts have said maybe about
forty percent of profits are exposed here to regulatory shifts
and the landscape. Do you think that's as much as
we could see a dentop? Is it more or less
than that?
Speaker 6 (26:06):
No?
Speaker 14 (26:06):
I think it could be much more detrimental because when
you look at pricing of evs like Tesla's in particular,
there's a severe supply.
Speaker 6 (26:14):
And demanding balance because the demand for Tesla.
Speaker 14 (26:16):
Has dropped off, so people don't really want the cars,
and the discounts that they get through the seventy five
hundred dollars credit is a substantial amount of money relative
to let's say a forty thousand dollars car, So the
typical Tesla buyers is actually.
Speaker 6 (26:31):
Sort of like a millennial.
Speaker 14 (26:32):
So these price increases definitely are bad. And when you
go into areas like I'm in Europe now, I mean
the hate for Elon is huge.
Speaker 6 (26:41):
You know.
Speaker 14 (26:42):
I'm in Italy where this was a country that you know,
Americans fought and died to end fascism here and had
a horrible experience under Berlusconi, which is like a billionaire
like Musk, and so people are just done with it.
Speaker 6 (26:55):
So this is just another like nail.
Speaker 14 (26:58):
In the coffin which I tweeted that really is going
to hurt Tesla, and I'm very upset about it, you know,
I just think this is totally unnecessary.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I mean, I think we can bring up what you've
been posting a little bit earlier, Ross, but I'm really
interested as to the latest breaking news out of Bloomberg
has been that Elon has helped reassert himself into the
sales role in Europe in the US of Tesla. Now
do you think that's.
Speaker 6 (27:22):
A good move?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Do you want him more involved or is it the
fact that you know, if he's impacting the way people
feel in Italy and around the EU, is that a
good thing or no?
Speaker 6 (27:32):
Well, there's no Tesla's in Italy. I mean, we're not
selling any here.
Speaker 14 (27:34):
I've seen a handful at most, and I've driven all
over the place, you know, and you know, the way
I look at it is this Elon has a talent obviously,
and he's a very successful engineer and manufacturer, has built Tesla.
Speaker 6 (27:48):
Up into being a huge company.
Speaker 14 (27:50):
But from a marketing and media perspective, he's destroyed his
image and the more involved he is, it's actually worse
from a marketing perspective, and especially because he's not coming
out and saying, hey, you know, I'm sorry for you know,
sort of pissing off everybody I've been wrong, you know
about Trump and you know.
Speaker 6 (28:07):
Please buy my cars.
Speaker 14 (28:09):
It's more just fighting and political infighting and then threatening
to start another party.
Speaker 6 (28:14):
You know, you're at this kind of point where it's.
Speaker 14 (28:16):
Like, what is this guy doing? You know, like you're
supposed to be selling cars and Rogo taxis and instead
we're in a fight with the President of the United States,
which he enabled and helped empower. But I'm sorry, Elon,
President Trump is way more powerful than you. I mean,
he's literally bombing Iran and you're messing with this guy.
(28:38):
So it's just, quite frankly, it's stupid.
Speaker 6 (28:42):
Ross Musk has.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Been consistent through social media posts videos that he's okay
with the idea that subsidies in particular direct consumer subsidies
go away, because he argues Tesla has this lower cost
base and pricing power, and the President obviously his comments
to dispute that. You know, he keeps claiming that Elon
is upset. What do you think about the doing away
(29:06):
with subsidies and how Tesla's position in the market would
be impacted.
Speaker 14 (29:11):
Well, it turns out that tesla real competition isn't as
much evs as it turns out to be, like hybrid
vehicles like the Audi I'm driving here in Italy, which
is actually a great vehicle and it gets about twice
the gas mileerge that a regular gas car would get.
Speaker 6 (29:26):
It's not an EV so it doesn't have the same benefit.
Speaker 14 (29:29):
But when you actually look at competitions just on a
regular basis of all vehicles, you know, there's lots of
choices consumers have and many of them are energy efficient,
even if they're not EV's and they're making those choices,
and we're seeing in the numbers, not to mention, we're
seeing EV sales like.
Speaker 6 (29:44):
In Europe actually sore and it's just not Tesla. So
this idea that it's not going to hurt.
Speaker 14 (29:50):
Tesla because the benefits are taken away, you know, is
really just again, it just doesn't make any sense, and
it goes against the fundamental theories of economics. So making
the car more expensive means less people will buy it.
It's simple as that, and they already have a hard
time soul in the car.
Speaker 6 (30:08):
Ross.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
I see on the Blueberg terminal that gerber Kawasaki had
around two hundred and thirty five thousand shares is at
the end of March, and that you'd been a seller
of the stock. And I just point out as the
audience because when I said you were coming on, some
people say, well, gerber Kawasaki doesn't even hold any shares
at all. So I'm putting that out there. In your
post on X you cited the board. The idea that
(30:28):
Elon Musk's political statements are not helpful is not unique
to you.
Speaker 6 (30:33):
Others share it.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Have you had anything from the board or do you
have any sense if the board has any plan to
act on this.
Speaker 6 (30:42):
No, they're not going to do anything.
Speaker 14 (30:43):
And we all know that they are all paid by
Elon and work for Elon, and it's not an independent board.
Speaker 6 (30:48):
And Delaware courts have said this over and over again.
Speaker 14 (30:51):
There's been one change to the board since they did
have one independent board member recently. But you know, the
fact of matter, they're not going to do anything about it,
you know, and I think there's some confusion. I run
an ETF GK ETF, and we sold our Tesla yesterday.
We had a small position left, and that's just the
you know, one small part of what we We manage
over three and a half billion dollars for clients at
(31:13):
Gerba Kolas Hockey.
Speaker 6 (31:14):
And many of them are big, long.
Speaker 14 (31:16):
Time Tesla diehard shareholders, and that's who I really represent.
Speaker 6 (31:20):
They love Tesla like I love Tesla, but Elon is
not doing what's best for us shareholders.
Speaker 14 (31:26):
So we still have I checked yesterday over sixty million
dollars in Tesla stock for our clients. And that's what
I'm advocating for because I personally have sold a lot
on my personal position. I still own some personally, and
you know, my cost basis is two dollars and fifty
cents of shares. But I like keeping some shares just
because it was one of the best trades of my life.
But you know, I just don't see with evaluation of
(31:48):
one hundred and fifty times earnings when you have Microsoft, Nvidia,
and Google and Meta all trading under let's say forty
or thirty pes what's the justification for the valuation robots
and a ROBOTAXI that doesn't really work.
Speaker 6 (32:03):
It just seems like there's a big disconnect here.
Speaker 14 (32:07):
And eventually this reckoning will come as the stock market
ultimately does work these things out.
Speaker 6 (32:12):
So you know, I cost investors.
Speaker 14 (32:14):
There's going to be a cost at some time for
all this, and it maybe hasn't happened yet. Even though
the stock is down twenty five percent this year, you
could easily see the stock drop in half if this continues.
So I'm very concerned about the future of Tesla and
for my shareholders. So that's why I'm a year and
that's why I advocate on behalf of Tesla's shareholders.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
It's bloombag tech. You are looking at a live shot
of the principle and check out the bloom mag Tech podcast.
You'll find it on the terminal as well as online
on Apple, Spotify and iHeart.
Speaker 6 (32:43):
This is bloombg.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Time for the VC Spotlight and here with me is
Mark Wigobba, managing director at jen Catalyst. You have something
that's called roll up strategy, or rather AI enabled roll
up strategy. So you say, we are a global investment firm,
but we're also a global transformation firm.
Speaker 6 (33:11):
Yes, explain the strategy absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 15 (33:14):
We're seeing AI having a huge potential in many industries
such as legal, it call centers, hoy management, but these
businesses are more traditionally services businesses. So what we're doing
is we're backing teams that are enabling both services and
software and we think that can be empowered by AI.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Right, one of the portfolio companies or most recent investments
is Udia. Correct and on the Facebook you say, well,
is this a Harvey but it's not. The whole point
is that it's kind of like back office help and
AI makes it better.
Speaker 6 (33:43):
Absolutely.
Speaker 15 (33:43):
So with Udia, for example, it's really targeting the General Council,
so the in house law firm versus the external law
firm instead. And so Udia is a really powerful way
to have services and software in one platform, really helping
those in house legal teams versus third party law firms.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
It's a fascinating tactic in the way in which you
are helping build create. How big is the creation portfolio?
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Now?
Speaker 1 (34:08):
How much money have you raised to put to work
in this way.
Speaker 6 (34:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 15 (34:12):
General Catalysts raised eight billion dollars last year. The Creation
Fund is a billion and a half. Of that, we're
putting about half of the money into these hybrid AI
native services plus software opportunities. So when we look at
where the spend is, for example, in UDIA and in
legal services, it's not necessarily in the software piece. A
lot of the spend is on external third parties, and
so can we bring in technology like AI software but
(34:34):
also services pieces within the in house legal parties in
order to really scale out their businesses.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Under scale talent is needed, and I bring it back
to some of the stories that we are talking about
day in, day out of the megacat names and the
fight for talent and how expensive it has become. How
are you sourcing those want to be entrepreneurs who could
be being paid phenomenal amounts if they just jump ship
from an Apple or an AI over to Meta right now.
Speaker 15 (35:02):
Absolutely, a lot of the founders we're backing on Creation
want to create these hybrid services plus software AI native
style companies. So they want to be the next generation
Constellation Software or transdim or Danaher. They really want to
build these large compounders that can grow in the public markets.
And so we're seeing the answer is not just in
giving a software solution, but it's really in doing a
(35:23):
hybrid services plus software business. And so many of them
want to create these compounders that they see growing quickly
in the public markets but empowered by AI. And the
way we looked at it is we looked at over
seventy industries and we found in ten of them AI
software could automate over thirty percent of tasks. So those
are the ten industries that we've been going after in
order to actually buy out these companies and improve their
(35:44):
operations so they can take on more revenue and they
can have more business. So for us, this is really
an AI growth story. How do we get AI software
in the hands of these compound founders who can provide
both software and service businesses and really grow and compound
traditional accounting firms, traditional IT HIA management companies, really getting
this AI native software and automation in the hands of
(36:05):
these businesses.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Mark Over the years, we're very used to seeing general
catalyst flush left leading rounds or partnering very high up
in the cap table, and all kinds of rounds, But
it's competitive out there.
Speaker 6 (36:17):
Absolutely. It is the roll up.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Strategy a point of difference because you know, as far
as I can tell, founders right now have their pick
when it comes to term sheets and who they might
take capital from. Capital is almost like commoditized in some sense.
Speaker 15 (36:30):
Absolutely, it's an extremely busy time in venture and in
private equity. So what we've been thinking about is what
are the most ways to help and support a founder,
And we really do think of General Catalyst that is
our mantra.
Speaker 6 (36:41):
So we're helping incubate companies.
Speaker 15 (36:42):
We're helping companies buy out their distribution and the data
they need to grow, which is the role up strategy.
We're helping folks on customer acquisition with our CVF fund,
We're incubating businesses in house. So General Catalyst is really
working to find the most ways to partner with founders,
and we think this AI needive trend is a really
great way to do it. For the first time, there's
an opportunity to actually buy out your client list and
(37:04):
in doing so buy the data needed to have a
better AI native solutions, whether that's for nursing, whether that's
for call centers, whether that's for joy managers, actually owning
the data and the distribution is extremely important in refining
the model and having the best product on market.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
We can go back to Udia or Crescendo's case studies,
what is the biggest cost at the moment they are
not relying on their own infrastructure or necessarily requiring the
talent to build their own models, So what is it
that's expensive for them?
Speaker 15 (37:33):
The hardest part in all of this is really the
go to market. Because we're seeing on the AI side,
whether it's Anthropic or Open Ai or Google, every three
to six months we see amazing improvements in logic and
reasoning and math. The hardest part of this AI revolution
is really getting it into the hands of the end customers.
Speaker 6 (37:49):
It's the go to market piece.
Speaker 15 (37:51):
Many of these industries are fragmented, they're hard to sell into,
they don't like buying technology products, and even if they
buy them.
Speaker 6 (37:57):
It's very difficult to implement them.
Speaker 15 (37:59):
So for us, I mean, the hardest part is really
the go to market and getting the distribution, and that's
why the AI enabled roll up approach is solving in
many ways the hardest part of kind of an AI transformation.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Story not to get too ahead of ourselves. But as
you are creating, as you're harnessing, as you're transforming, I'm
sure you're thinking about an exit strategy and eventually are
you thinking as a man who's done M and A
in the past, or to go meet the company you
found before? Is M and A the real path here
for some of these roll ups, it.
Speaker 15 (38:27):
Could be one path, but really the north shining star
is to have these compounders in.
Speaker 6 (38:31):
The public market.
Speaker 15 (38:32):
If you look at the performance of a trans dime,
or you look at Constellation Software or even Berkshire Hathaway
or others holding companies historically that have had better operations
and can buy smaller businesses and then improve them, allow
them to take on more clients, to grow, to become
more profitable, and continue to compound businesses. That has been
a really successful strategy in the public markets.
Speaker 6 (38:53):
We think there's a whole new.
Speaker 15 (38:54):
Generation of these public compounders that are being started right now,
and a lot of the improvements they'll do will be
around AI automation.
Speaker 6 (39:01):
Automating.
Speaker 15 (39:02):
We're basic tasks like customer support or data entry or
translation or summarization or creation of presentations. All of these
things are getting easier and easier to do in AI.
So we're putting together teams that have industry experience and
emine experience coupled with this AI technology experience to go
and actually buy businesses, improve them, and grow them, and
(39:22):
continue to compound. It's a very classic story in the
public market, but with an AI twist we think will
have a major impact.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
As Elon Musk reignites a feud with President Trump over
the tax bill, what does that entail for the company's
autonomous ambitions. It's just a week or so since it
launched its Robotaxi service in Austin, Texas. Mandeep Sing of
Bloomberg Intelligence, our in house analysts, is here with us.
In my reporting, it's been quite clear Elon Musk aligned
himself with the President and went into the White House
(39:58):
to get certain things. One of them was to influence
federal level regulation and frameworks robotaxis. How have you modeled
for that, because you've been writing a lot recently about
weimo in competition with Tesla's autonomous ambitions.
Speaker 16 (40:11):
Yeah. Look, I mean when you size the robotaxi right now,
you know it's pretty small. Uber and Lyft do about
eleven to twelve million rides a day. WEMO at this point,
even with the growth that they have had this year
is about thirteen million annual rides. So really the number
(40:33):
of rights in a day contrast with thirteen million anual rides.
Speaker 6 (40:36):
So that's what we're talking about.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
And with Tesla entering the market, the hope was they
can scale much faster because obviously they can make the
vehicle at one third of the cost and.
Speaker 6 (40:48):
A WAYO vehicle.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
But now I think getting those safety approval city by city,
that's what's taken WEMO so long in terms of ramping
across the five cities, and I think it'll be hard
for Tesla to ramp up. So based on our expectations,
Robotaxi will have a much slower growth than the Hockey
(41:10):
state growth we have seen with chat Epte or you know,
on the LLM side, this is going to be a
much smaller market at least.
Speaker 6 (41:17):
For the foreseeable future.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
So given Mandy the stock is down six straight days
and with some one trillion, is that priced in briefly please?
Speaker 4 (41:26):
Well, not really, because the expectation is Tesla will be
a big player, and that's always been part of their
premium valuation, so clearly there is a scope for expectations
being reset if this robotaxi rollout is expected to come
out much lower than consensus expectations.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
No names saying a Bloomberg Intelligence thank you so much
for the breakdown. Now that does it for this edition
of Bloomberg Tech Ed.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Don't forget to check out the podcast. You know where
to find. It's on all the Bloomberg platforms and online
on Apple, Spotify, and iHeart from London and San Francisco
this week. This is has been and will continue to
be Bloomberg Tech hmm
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