July 16, 2025 • 39 mins
Bloomberg’s Ed Ludlow discusses the rise in Nvidia shares as CEO Jensen Huang says he expects to get the first batch of US licenses to export H20 AI chips to China soon. Plus, Elon Musk’s xAI is in talks to lease data center capacity in Saudi Arabia. And markets react to reports that President Trump has held talks about firing Federal Reserve Chair Powell.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive
from coast to coast, with Caroline Hide in New York
and Edlavelow in San Francisco.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
This is Bloomberg Tech coming up In Video's CEO says
he anticipates getting the first batch of US licenses to
explore H twenty AI chips to China very soon. Plus
more from Cryptoweek on the Hill after Trump says the
House will pass the Genius Acts, Stablecorn bill today and
Elon Musk's XAI is in discussions to lease data center
(00:45):
capacity in Saudi Arabia. We bring you the Bloomberg exclusive.
Good morning. Let's get right to markets, and we are
very focused right now on the chip sector ASML. These
are the Dutch shares trading in Amsterdam of the world's
leading chip equipment maker or chip making equipment maker. The
story's really clear the vision they've given us for twenty
(01:08):
twenty six. They are not holding to that in terms
of growth or a year of growth. But what really
spooped the markets was a comment from the CFO about
how right now chip makers and customers are very worried
about tariffs will go deeper later in the hour, then
you have in video. So actually in video was kind
of not doing much this morning. We know that Jensen
one is in China talking up the success of being
(01:29):
able to sell in a limited way some AI chips
back into that market over the course of three days.
We had a big game yesterday pushing the market cap
well beyond four trillion dollars, with giving some of that
back this morning. The anxiety in this Wednesday session is
slightly linked to let's say, digits from ASML. Anyway, Jensen
Onong's been talking up a storm. Listen to this. Some
(01:52):
of the things that we wrote off.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Might be harder to recover, but most of the things
that he quit on reserve.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Will not be.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Scrapped permanently was not scrapped permanently. So we'll compare what
customers would like to buy now versus the inventory that we.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Have, and then we can figure that out.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
It's probably not one hundred percent, but it's not sero
percent either.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Let's get more on Nvidio and the relaxation of some
of those chip cuts. Bluebos. Mike Shepherd joins us out
of DC and Jensmong's had paid a number of times.
Actually in the last twelve to twenty four hours in
Beijing in China. And let's say he's basking a little
bit in what is a big win for him and
a big win for the company.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Well, that's fair to say, because this really was a
big turn about by the Trump administration in basically lifting
these export curbs on the AGE twenty that it had
imposed just back in April, and much to in Nvidia's chagrin,
it prompted the company to take a four point five
billion dollars right down on the previous quarter, and it
(02:57):
had been looking at losses of perhaps as much as
eight billion dollars in sales for the current quarters. So
this is a potentially big gain. And Jensen Wong is
saying that he is expecting those licenses very soon ed
although he didn't give an exact timeline, and there's still
some unanswered questions about that too, the scope of it.
We don't know exactly what this backlog of orders that
(03:18):
Jensen is saying are still on the books that they
can fulfill very quickly once they get the licenses. And
it's also not clear whether the permission that the US
government now is signaling that it will start giving extends
beyond the inventory that Jensen was talking about that have
been held up by the restrictions that were imposed. Likewise,
we don't know if this will be a rubber stamp
(03:40):
process by the US. In other words, will it be
quick as Jensen is suggesting, or will there be some
bureaucratic tangles here. So there are some questions about how
far this goes and whether this might extend to future
chips that Nvidia may try to sell.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
There bureaucratic tangles. There's also the political entanglement as well.
There's been a lot of headlines i think in the
last twenty four hours, with Jensen Wong in the center
of them because he is in China, and there's a
timing question because he met with the President of the
United States last week. Do we use Nvidia as any
kind of sign that the relationship between the two countries,
(04:16):
the United States and China is evolving or changing in
real time as well?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
You know, it really does fit into the broader picture
of how US China relations are really evolving fairly quickly,
you know, since Liberation Day when Donald Trump imposed you know,
these eyewatering terrists in the world's second largest economy really
prompting a reckoning between Washington and Beijing, enforcing negotiators from
(04:43):
both sides to sit down and really hash it out
over trade. They didn't get too far into the weeds,
but they did address some of the key issues, and they.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Included export controls.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
The US has been concerned that China have been holding
back on sales of rarers elements to American customers, and likewise,
Beijing have been complaining about export controls like the ones
that we are talking about applying to the H twenty chip,
but also to chip design software and other elements. So
we got a sense that there has been a little
bit of a quid pro quo, something that Treasury Secretary
(05:16):
Scott Bessen acknowledged during his interview with our colleague Gamery
who are Durned, yesterday morning, and something that we are
seeing fitting into this broader pattern of perhaps a little
bit more rap Prochemont Secretary of State Marco Rubio has
been meeting with his Chinese counterparts to try to set
the stage for a summit between President Donald Trump and
his counterpart, Chinese President Shijimping sometime before the end of
(05:40):
the year, and likewise, Trump has also been signaling a
softer tone. He's saying that he will fight China in
a friendly fashion. And likewise, according to reporting from our
colleagues Jenny Leonard and Mackenzie Hawkins inside the room, inside
those meetings at the White House, Trump is one of
the least hawkish voices when it comes to China.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Shepherd in Washington, d C. Thank you very much. Let's
stick with the semiconductor space broadly. This is shares of ASML, right,
the world's most important leading edge maker of lithography machines
EUV lithography. They used to manufacture chips, and what has
happened this morning is the company has walked back its
forecast for next year twenty twenty six. Let's get out
(06:20):
to London and Bloomberg's Henry Wren. That is a part
of the story, right, So in that European session the
stocks off loads but down more than ten percent, Henry.
The other part was the CFO saying, our customers are
really worried about tarifs. Right now, give us the summary, yes, sir, yes, indeed.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
So usually every quarter when it's about trades trays about
its orders intake number. This quarter the order intake number
is satisfactory.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
It beat estimates. However, one light in.
Speaker 5 (06:48):
This press release created court Trailer's attention, and that's CEO
saying that although the company is still preparing for growth
for twenty twenty six, the company really couldn't confirm that
at this stage because that contrasted with the company's messaging
about three months ago saying that based on its client
conversations at that time, twenty twenty six was still expected
(07:09):
to be a year of growth.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
So this really.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
Set dampens the sentiment. As you mentioned, we see celldowns
in some other chip equipment companies today as well, including
Applied Materials.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
KOA in the US.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
As well as ASMI B Semiconductor as well in the Netherlands.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
What about the course of gone, I mean, is there
any sense of how the health of the business is
right now?
Speaker 5 (07:33):
Yes, so let's talk about Let's focus on the EUV first,
because that's the most important growth factor for the company,
and according to the order intake that we've been seeing
in the past quarter, it does seem that TSMC has
been putting into more orders, which is ASML's most important customer. However,
for many other customers, the uncertainty.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Level is on the rise. We talked about.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
You know, the Trumpet administration is backtracking many of its
eye watering tariffs. However, based on the conversations ISML has
forsed many of its clients, it does seem that the
uncertainty level is on the rise rather than on the decline.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Ismel explained that it's because of two reasons.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
On the direct side, you still have this Section two
three two investigation going on on the US, which means
the terriffs imposed to chips and chip making equipment is
still unknown. And on the other hand, you have this
terriff's impact on the economy, which many chip makers are
more concerned about. So on the direct and indirect side,
the company is getting more cautious, Its customers are getting
(08:36):
more cautious. So that's probably why you see the company
walking back its guidance a bit today.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Blue makes Henry ran out of London. Thank you very much.
Let's get to the chip in AI sectors in greater
depth with an investor. Jay Hatfield, CEO CIO of Infrastructure
Capital Advisors. It's hard to know whether to start on
trade and policy, or the politics of the day between
America in China, or the idiosyncratic that Henry was going through.
(09:04):
But right now tariff seems to connect all of those things.
What are you seeing across the technology sector in how
investors are responding to tariffs but also how the companies
themselves are communicating the impact.
Speaker 6 (09:17):
Thanks Ed, It's great to be back on.
Speaker 7 (09:19):
Well.
Speaker 6 (09:19):
The way we look at tariffs is they're actually very
positive for the US and very negative for the rest
of the world, and you're seeing that today with ASML.
But US companies are mostly except maybe Apple, mostly unaffected
by the tariffs, a lot of met local manufacturing, So
you continue to see tech stocks lead the market. But
(09:41):
what I think most people are missing is the revenue
benefit to the US. So we're forecasting three hundred billion
of revenue from tariffs, which is really the run rate
right now, and we're also forecasting that the budget deficit
declines next year at a one point four only that's
(10:01):
only four and a half percent of GDP, so nobody
else is really looking at those numbers. It is good
for the US to collect revenue, pay down or have
less of a deficit, which ultimately will be invested and
help the economy.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Jay I think the top story over the course of
several days has been in Nvidia, the world's most valuable company,
now being more free in a limited way to sell
chips back into China. It's a headline and it's a
single company. But what does that signal to you on
the policy side about how America will continue to trade
with China?
Speaker 6 (10:37):
Well, I think what you're seeing is that the Trump administration,
notwithstanding the tariffs which can be negative for a lot
of companies and trade restrictions which hurt Nvidia three or
four months ago, is that they are pro business and
if you lobby the administration, they are open to changing policy.
So ultimately that's going to support the stock market. It's
(10:59):
going to be published for tech companies. So they're just
way more practical than the prior administration and way more
pro business.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
You track a series of economic indicators, right, what is
yourjection on the net effect of this administration's policy? Do
you see growth near, medium term, long term or what
do you think we're being set up for going forward?
On the fiscal side.
Speaker 6 (11:26):
Well, it's fairly complicated because tariffs are negative for the
economy in the very short run because you just take
it's really like the sales tax, so you take buying
power away from consumers. But the real issue is the
FED is misanalyzing tariffs. They're not treating them as one time.
(11:46):
They're sticking with their archaic expectations theory of inflation that
tariffs might cause expectations and spiral out of control, which
we think is no longer no.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Longer tru Let me ask you this, that's your view
on this current FED administration? Right, I have to acknowledge
that in the markets right now there is movement across
assets on the reports and speculation about what the administration
may or may not do visa v FED chairman Powe, Right,
I think we see that in the markets. What do
you make of that potential change? And I'd note for
(12:23):
our audience, right, this is Bloomberg Tech. We talk about
tech companies that are valued on their future earnings, so
rates impact that equation, right, take it from there.
Speaker 6 (12:33):
Well, we actually have a differentiated view that if in
fact the FED chair gets replaced, of course, the stock
market probably would react negatibility. That would just be a
buying opportunity for a couple of reasons. First of all,
the power FED has been tremendously behind the curve. They
use a flawed CPI, so they're always about two years
behind the curve. But also a new FED chair is
(12:56):
not going to have super loose monetary powers, so just
have a normal monetary policy, and they have to deal
with the existing board, which has the core board has
four Democrats on it, so they're not going to be
all powerful. They're not going to lower rates too quickly.
And it's important to note that rates are altered tight now,
so we really really need to cut.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
That was in the context of media reports on the
president's consideration of whether or not he can or will
fire chaed FED chair Japower. Bloomberg's not verified that reporting,
but as we discuss Jay, we see it in the market.
Jay Hatfield of Infrastructure Capital Advisor's great to have you
back on the show. Thank you. Now. Coming up, Mark
Zuckerberg is set to face off against Meta shareholders in
(13:39):
a trial over the company's handling have used the data.
We're going to get the details next. This is Bloomberg
Tech today is in court in Delaware over allegations from
(14:03):
shareholders related to the fallout from the Cambridge Analytica data
mining scandal. I want to go to Boomberg's Riley Griffin,
who's here in sf. Okay, so the trials underway, what
is the context and the basis of the trial, who's involved?
What do we need to know?
Speaker 8 (14:17):
And this is a case that is not just about privacy,
but it is about power. Mark Zuckerberg is expected to
testify alongside former COO Cheryl Sandberg and board members about
the Cambridge Analytica scandal, which has had quite a long
shadow over Meta. But in this case, Meta is not
a defendant. Actually just the executives and the board members are,
(14:39):
and the shareholders in this case are looking to hold
them financially accountable for the fallout of that scandal.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Okay, history is important here. Earlier in my career, Cambridge
Analytica scandal was a big story. What are the basics
of it that our audience, who may or may not know,
need to know.
Speaker 8 (14:54):
Yes, years ago, this was a case where Cambridge Analytica
firm had harvested data of millions of face Book users inappropriately.
This firm had ties to political operations the Trump campaign,
and ultimately Facebook had to pay a multi billion dollar
settlement to the FTC for that data breach.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Okay, what are the shareholders actually accusing the specific executive
of ben if it's not the company that's a defendant,
and it's those key names. What is it the shareholders won?
Speaker 8 (15:24):
Yeah, negligence, a lack of oversight over over the company's
actions during that time. Now, remember Mark Zuckerberg has total
control over the company via his voting power. He has
the majority control over votes and essentially can set company direction.
And shareholders here are saying that these executives didn't do
their appropriate duty, didn't follow FTC orders, and allowed this
(15:48):
breach to happen knowing that there were certain.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Risks at hand. I feel like there's a lot of
litigation going on with Meta. It's hard to distinguish and
work how all these different paths. This one's happening in Delaware.
Why is it happening now? Again, Like I reflect that
the Cambridge Analyticus scandal was more than a decade ago
something like that.
Speaker 8 (16:11):
Yeah, so it's great that you bring up Delaware because
what makes this an unprecedented case is it's the first
time we're seeing a CEO and board members actually go
to court. Usually these kinds of things are settled or
negotiated behind closed doors, and we're actually seeing this trial
take place in Delaware, and it really has ramifications for
all companies out there, whether or not Mark Zuckerberg and
(16:35):
other executives are having to pay billions in dollars for
this scandal. Now, one thing we need to remember is
this is a really hard case to win these care
mark claims. The battle is uphill, and it could set
the direction for whether Meta ultimately reincorporates outside of Delaware
in the future.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
So, Riley Griffin of Bloomberg News and Bloomberg Tag, you're
kind of like six months into this beat of covering Meta,
and so much has happened in the first half of
the year. What I would like to get from you
is is Mark Zuckerberg himself, like he actually does appear
and gives testimony in the context of litigation or if
it is a political hearing something like that, he often
will stand up and speak right yes.
Speaker 8 (17:14):
And that's an evolution of his career. What we've learned
from our reporting and my reporting over the last six
months has been that Mark Zuckerberg really wants to take
legal fights to court. Now this is no longer a
time where he wants to just settle, but he wants
to set the precedent that Meta can win these cases
and in this case, he can.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
You wrote an extensive and deep piece in BusinessWeek about
the kind of magnification. Yeah, of Mark Zuckerberg. I really
encourage the audience to go out and read it. But
you mentioned that the evolution of his career, there's also
been an evolution of him personally politically. Could you summarize
what you learned through that?
Speaker 8 (17:51):
Oh, apologies, this is something for kids.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
That is his vibe.
Speaker 8 (17:56):
He has said this publicly, he said it privately. He
has done apologizing for scandals of the past and ready
to move on and really dominate the space and that
demands winning, whether it's on the legal front or politically speaking.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
So the big news this week in Meta's world has
been this commitment for massive, massive scale data center. You know,
I break the story this morning, We're going to do
it later and to show that XAI is looking at
Saudi Arabia because you need the capital, the space, the energy.
But what Meta is doing, you know that the image
that they give is it could cover Manhattan. The scale
(18:29):
of what they want to do. Summarize it as best
you can, and what our read on it was, Yeah.
Speaker 8 (18:33):
So hundreds of billions of dollars. That's how much Meta
is expecting to spend on this AI race to beat
out the competition over time, overtime, overtime. We know that
this year, as of the last quarter results, they're expecting
to spend you know, as much as seventy two billion
in capital expenditures, a lot on data centers as you mentioned,
and we're seeing two hundred million dollars pay packages for
(18:56):
AI talent they're poaching from Open AI. I mean, this
is a really relentless race, and Meta is putting all
the capital it has on hand to win it.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Bloomer's Riley Griffin, thank you very much. Some headlines that
there crossing the Bloomberg terminal. President Trump is likely to
fire FED chair Powell, according to White House officials and
Bloomberg's reporting that could happen soon. Bloomberg also reporting that
Trump spoke to lawmakers on Tuesday about whether or not
two hours Powell. I'd note some of the market reaction.
(19:26):
We're showing the Bloomberg US Dollar Spot Index, the Dollar
Spot Index raising gains after that report, also seeing treasuries
pair gains after earlier reports. Will continue to bring you
what we know throughout the day. All right, coming up,
we're going to discuss the fate of the Genius Act
stable Cooin bill, as with Kavieta Gutter from the Delta
Blockchain Fund. This is Bloomberg Tech crypto stocks rising along
(19:55):
with Bitcoin after President Trump said the House of Representatives
will pass the Genius Act stable Coin bill today. This
after a procedural vote failed. Yes, they want to get
out Scavie to go to general partner at the Delta
Blockchain Fund. There is some political wrangling going on, but
it looks like the Genius Act stable Cooin bill moves forward.
Why is it important it does so? Hi Ed?
Speaker 9 (20:17):
I mean Genius Act is basically putting a basic structure
of what stable points should have already been a long
time back. If the stable cooin bills or the Genius
Act actually provides any companies who are doing stable coins
the rules and regulations around how to really release them,
how much pillateral do you want, what sort of underlining,
(20:37):
transparency and accountability associated with it should be there? And
I think those are the things which companies like Circle
were always watching. But putting a standard structure would help
a lot of fintech companies, like whether it's Square block
or a bunch of other portfolio bunch of other financial
companies to actually release it in a right way.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
We've been asking ourselves when this bill passes, what happens next.
And the hope from your industry, as I understand it,
is that there's just going to be much wider use
of dollar denominated digital tokens. Dollarization, as David Sachs would
call it and has done here on this program. Is
that what you're hoping for. Yeah, I'm hoping for three
(21:17):
different results.
Speaker 9 (21:18):
First, we have to understand that more stable coin, especially
in US denominated, is going to have adoption.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
You are actually creating.
Speaker 9 (21:26):
A soft power around US dollar beyond the trillion dollar deficit.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Which we already had or a debt.
Speaker 9 (21:32):
You're actually making a more US pegged economy in the world,
which is really big for US dollars and the United
States comments, and I think that's why President Trump is
really pushing for it. Secondly, it does legitimate everything around
crypto with respect to USD denominated currency. It will give
a big high for the prices in bitcoin, ethereum and
(21:54):
all the other stuff which we are looking at denominated
in USD. So that's a very big one, and most
important is for a normal regular customer, very viptu customer,
as we say, would actually start understanding crypto adoption using
stable coin and would be a very comfortable segme into crypto.
So I do feel like, not only for the industry,
but as a country, it's a very big bit.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Okay, So House vote on the Genius Acts stable Coin
bill today. We'll track it. We'll bring you the latest
when we get it. Kavida Goetze from the Delta Blockchain Fund,
thank you very much. Now coming up, fueling the growing
AI race, we look towards the future of energy is
data center demand ces no signs of slowing down. Data
center is everywhere at the moment, so much more to discuss.
(22:37):
This is Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. Let's
get back to the story from earlier in the hour,
(22:57):
Bloomberg reporting citing a White House official, that President Trump
is likely to fire Federal Reserve Chairman J Powell very soon.
The market reaction was in the US dollar, but we
also saw G ten peers climb on those headlines. Bloomberg
also confirming earlier reporting that yesterday the President met with
Guope lawmakers to discuss whether or not he ought to
(23:19):
oust bedchair Japowe. That's what we'll keep tracking. Markets are
moving in real time. Also thinking a lot about the
semiconductor space because of ASML's earnings. Right that is a
big story right now. They scrapped their year of growth
forecast for twenty twenty six. But the big headline that's
spooped investors is that the CFO is saying customers are
very worried about tariffs. These are shares that were trading
(23:42):
in Amsterdam. The market in Europe now closed, but that
is a big drop, almost eleven percent. Those are the
public markets. Let's go from public markets to private markets,
a story I broke with colleagues yesterday. SpaceX is planning
an insider share sale that would value the company at
about four hundred billion dollars. That's according to our sources.
The per share price is two hundred and twelve dollars,
(24:02):
and that's up substantially from the one hundred and eighty
five dollars set in the prior transaction that was December.
This deal marks a rapidly climbing value for Musk's rocket
and satellite maker, which is now the most valuable private
startup in the world. Sticking with mister Musk. Elon Musk's
Ai startup XAI is in discussions to least data center
(24:24):
capacity in Saudi Arabia. That's according to sources, it's all
part of an effort to expand infrastructure in regions offering
cheap energy but also political goodwill. I want to get
out to our AI editor Seth Figerman, who joins us
on the story. Seth, this is something we reported with
colleagues in Europe and in the Middle East this morning.
My understanding is from sources there's one key name, which
(24:46):
is Humane. That's who XAI is talking to. What do
we need to know here?
Speaker 10 (24:51):
You know, I think this is one of the rare
providers in the region that could probably get XAI you know,
several gigawads of capacity in the coming years I can
speak to. I think the scope of Elon's ambition. You know,
it was only a year or so ago that people
are still scratching their heads about what you want to
do with XAI and where really sat in the ecosystem.
Now we're looking at a company that is tonally valued
(25:11):
at around two hundred billion dollars, you know, and expanding
infrastructure at a scale that's starting to rival open ai
and Meta, though perhaps not quite at the same level yet.
Of course, what we're waiting to hear is now, what's
the product, what's the revenue stream?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
All of that that makes it a big business, right,
So in Memphis, Tennessee, you have Colossus hyper scale data
center footprint. The rest of the reporting is that you know,
they might also be looking at the UAE. There's a
relationship with g forty two and elon Mask. They might
be looking at Africa. The main thing is you just
mentioned it the products. Where is xai at You know,
(25:44):
groc four was this big moment on social media, But
what do we know about the model when it's capabilities?
Speaker 10 (25:50):
Yeah, I mean this still feels like a company that's
making more headlines for the controversies than for the capabilities
of its products. That's it does seem to be higging
benchmarks that are comparable to some of the leaving providers
out there, including OPENINGI. But what we have not seen
really from Xaiya is a play a real central role
in the business and developer ecosystem. This is not a
company that's partner and done deals with a bunch of
(26:11):
fortune five hundred brands it's not necessarily a central tool
for developers and software engineers. They are starting to implement
higher price tiered products that might start to jem up revenue.
But I don't know that we've really seen approve the
business case yet, but we going as where it goes
in the next six months.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Bloomberg Seth Fighaman, thank you very much for joining us.
Let's get more on the race for AI data centers.
Katherin Huff University of Illinois, a Barna Champaign Associate professor,
somebody that has also held multiple roles in the Department
of Energy across the US government. That report just there.
I broke it with colleagues this morning in the Middle East.
(26:48):
But what's interesting about it was my understanding is XAI
musk rationale is to look to regions where energy is cheapest,
which puts a reflection on the Stata player in this
country as well. Would you just give us your reaction
to that reporting. Yeah, I think it makes a lot
of sense.
Speaker 7 (27:04):
Right as power demand goes way up, you're going to
need to see some balance between the cost of running
these data centers with the cost of powering them, which
is going to be a huge component you know, a
lot of AI data center companies are looking towards new
energy and building new energy for the grid, like nuclear energy.
(27:26):
I'm a nuclear engineering professor, so that's where my expertise lies,
and I immediately think of countries that might build new
nuclear as options for that.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
The focus this week has been in Pennsylvania and Pittsburgh,
and there was a commitment from one company, call Weave,
to invest in that state in data center capacity. I
just want to play you a SoundBite from call Wee'
CEO on the big picture of where he sees the need.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
The broader issue really that has echoed around this conference
and it has been an extraordinary conference has really been
about the need to be able to build and scale
the energy infrastructure of the country, to be able to
build and scale the computing infrastructure for artificial intelligence so
that America can maintain its position as a.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Leader in the space.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
And in many ways, the physical infrastructure for artificial intelligence,
the compute, the clusters, that is going to define our
ability to lead within this space.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
The need to scale energy infrastructure, Katie, how great is
that need?
Speaker 7 (28:35):
Yeah, the pace of builds needed to ramp up the
amount of power that we're talking about here is in
the gigawats, right, and this is the kind of challenge
that we were facing already with regard to replacing fossil
fuel sources in the United States. Is in the many
tens or hundreds of gigawatts by twenty fifty. Add on
(28:55):
to that the need to build more power for data centers,
and you get a situation where you know, hundreds of
new nuclear reactors need to be deployed or you know,
other hopefully clean energy technologies.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Does the regulatory environment support that?
Speaker 7 (29:13):
Yeah, you know, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission has a number
of activities focused on accelerating licensing. Now, I am a
bit concerned about the way that the Trump administration has
worked in the last few months to reduce its independence
as a regulator. I'm increasingly concerned about recent actions being
taken by the administration. A really strong, independent, well funded,
(29:37):
fully staffed regulator enables ensuring standards that are going to
be met and that the public is being kept safe,
and they can speed up their process for sure. But
my understanding is they're working on it.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Katie. We've had many of the nuclear operators or would
be nuclear operators come on this program particularly those that
have relationships with technology companies. But when I look at
their timelines, we're talking end of the decade at least
to come online. But they argue nuclear is the only option.
Solar wind, other sources of renewed energy just won't cut it.
(30:12):
Summarize your position on whether they're right or wrong.
Speaker 7 (30:15):
Yeah, absolutely, You know, I think nuclear energy is extremely
well suited to supporting AI and data centers and a
number of other sort of critical infrastructure needs that we're
going to have near near term. You know, largely because
of its reliability. It's on twenty four to seven. It's scalable, right,
it has a very small land footprint, and you know,
tech companies that have made clean energy commitments and climate
(30:38):
commitments globally, these are global companies. They also value that
nuclear energy is emissions free, and so it's extremely well suited.
But those constructions have to be starting now in order
to make it to the twenty thirty two, twenty thirty
five timelines that we're talking about sort of gigawatts worth
of expansion. You know, I know that a number of
AI companies said yesterday that if there were those gigawatts
(31:00):
ready to buy today, they would be buying them. Nuclear
isn't there yet, but a number of nuclear builds are
on the way.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Katie, half of the University of Illinois. It's great to
have you here on Bloomberg Tech. Thank you very much.
And when it comes to powering AI data centers, the
US facing a bottleneck, Katie just explained a bit of
it there at Bloomberg Green in Seattle yesterday. Long term,
long time, well known silicon and Valley investor in Okosla
discuss the types of energy he thinks can fuel our
(31:29):
future AI ambitions.
Speaker 11 (31:31):
The change in demand is what has caused the problem.
Now nimbiism like grid again is going to be a problem.
Speaker 12 (31:40):
But data centers don't need the grid. You can put
the data center over the power sources. So I do
think grid helps.
Speaker 11 (31:52):
But the demand problem is created by the projected increase
in demand from AI data centers.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Which can be who did near barer sources. Coming up,
nineteen Labs launches its first commercial drone flight, successfully delivering
medicine in Guyana. We're going to speak with nineteen Lab
CEO Ramfish. That's next. This is Bloomberg Tech. This is
(32:23):
Bloomberg Tech. You're looking at the live shot of the
principal room. Check out the Bloomberg Tech podcast. You can
find it on the terminal as well as online on Apple,
Spotify and on iHeart. This is Bloomberg Tech. Nineteen Labs
(32:46):
is taking telehealth to the skies. The company has launched
its Gale four s drone powered by Starlink and Nvidia
AI to autonomously deliver medicine and digital health toolkits from
more I want to bring in nineteen Lab. CEO Raumfish
is with us here in San Francisco. So the first
kind of case study or successful should call it admission
(33:06):
is in Guyana. What did you achieve and why that nation?
In particular.
Speaker 13 (33:13):
We've been working in Ghana for the last few years
and the president and the government of other is very
egoty use technology to improve the country and use the
new found money from GAZZ to actually have a positive impact.
So we've been building a public private partnership with them
for the last few years, bringing advanced technology, starting with
(33:37):
telemedicine and now launching the dun delivery of medication and
bringing back from those whole indigenous communities blood samples or
other goods to the regional hospitals.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
So we talked a little bit about the technology. You know,
I cover in video very closely and for a long time,
Jensen Wong's been telling me about real world AI and
physical AI. You use video is a partner, but how
does that work?
Speaker 13 (34:04):
There are two technologies that are transforming what we can
do in those remote places. Traditionally you haven't been able
to go there physically. Drown is changing this, and you
haven't been able to communicate. Duran's is changing this. The
Nvidia piece comes on top of it allows us to
automate and monitor and perform during operation in a much safer,
(34:29):
more autonomous way, and that directly ties into the costs.
And when you are dealing with the next one billion
people in the world population, one of the major consideration
is innovating at the cost point. That's why Nvidia is
transformative here as well on.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
The data side. Or you have physical silicon inside of we.
Speaker 13 (34:49):
Have physical silicon inside because of the AI is moving
to the edge, so we actually have both the starling
on the drawn and the Nvidia on the drawn to
the real time processing of what's happening on the drawn,
so it can fly autonomously in a safe way.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Astonishing you know, Starlink is available in so many formats
and mediums, you know, industrial scale on aeroplanes in the home.
How did you negotiate with them to get a receiver
locally onto the drone.
Speaker 13 (35:17):
The Starlink Mini is kind of the smallest model of
the starlinks drown't you know we're not talking about the dgis. Well,
we are looking on something that's better be called unmanned
aircraft and these are just growing every year now, like
we can carry twenty five pounds this year, by next
(35:37):
week they're looking at one hundred and fifty pounds and
men's aircraft. So yeah, you put the Starlink on it.
In the moment you put Starling, you completely transform how
you can fly because the pilot can fit view the weather,
view the physical location monitor throughout.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
The flight in very low latency.
Speaker 13 (35:55):
Almost no latency, sits with a joystick. You know, in
the past of technology has only been available for expensive
military usage. We believe in drans for good and this
telling has been able to enable us to transform this
put the Stellink on the downs and offer those services.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
In my study in research of you, I know you
to be more kind of involved in the smartphone market
historically working at Apple other OEMs. How did you get
into drones?
Speaker 13 (36:25):
Oh, I've always been into aviation since I was a kid.
And if you think about the dawn nowadays, done is
no longer that much of a aero challenge or aerospace challenge.
A don is much more of a computer with sensor
and models and software and communications that you need to
come together. Well, that's what I did at Apple, That's
(36:48):
what I did in some song leading digital health, and
that's where I started when I build the first staf
phone in the world at the Browser in ninety five.
It's building the how do well and the software together
or to create amazing.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Products just very quick.
Speaker 7 (37:03):
You know.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Zip Line is a company that we've covered on this
program deeply. It's very analogous in many years what you're doing.
They've been able to scale in different markets. Do you
see them as the main competitor. Do you try to
emulate them?
Speaker 13 (37:16):
I think they are absolutely a fantastic company and they
are doing amazing things. We try to take a slightly
different approaches in them. They are much more vertically integrated
and everything needs to be technology powered. We believe in
achieving balance between what I called ai and agi. There
is a space to use humans in the operation of grants,
(37:38):
especially in rule and indigenous places, and being able to balance.
You know, you can have local people charge the drans unpeck.
The drans have it land in the communities. It also
means that you empower and educate local people.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
So rum Fish ninety lab CEO, thank you very much.
We got to get out to Washington, DC and Bloomber's
Kale lines and speak more about headlines that President Trump
very likely to pow to fire a FED chair pal. Kaylee,
update me, what's the latest.
Speaker 14 (38:10):
Yeah, Bloomberg is reporting this, according to a White House
official familiar with the matter, though they do caution ed
that no final decision has yet been made. But yes,
it does seem that the President may be getting closer
to the point where he makes the call to at
least try to fire at the FED Chair Jerome Powell.
And he spoke about this, we understand with Republican lawmakers
who were gathered at the White House Tuesday evening here
in Washington. The New York Times in fact actually reporting
(38:32):
that he waived in front of them a draft letter
of his firing of Chairman Pal. So there certainly is
an escalation in what has been an ongoing feud, if
you will, at least one sided feud between the Trump
White House and the FED chairs. The President has continually
pushed the chair to lower rates substantially. The question is
going to be whether or not a he does this,
but also if he has the legal grounds to do
(38:54):
so when we actually look at the Federal Reserve Act.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Of course, a FED.
Speaker 14 (38:57):
Governor can only be removed for cause. It's unclear exactly
in terms of reading the LAG what it actually means
to try to fire a FED chairman, though of course,
as FED chair he is a FED governor as well,
and there's a question of to what extent this would
be applicable to both of the titles that he holds.
It also is a question of what exactly that cause
(39:17):
would be, because simply not lowering interest rates isn't necessarily
a justified cause, which is why we may have seen
the administration put in continued focus on specifically the cost
of the renovation to the FED buildings here in Washington,
suggesting that Powell may have lied to Congress about that.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
So this is a.
Speaker 14 (39:33):
Story we're continuing to watch, and we may get more
from President Trump on that in just a moment as
he sits down with the Crown Prince and Prime Minister
of Bahrain in the Oval Office d.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
We're also looking at the dollar right The biggest reactions
to these headlines was in the dollar spot index, of course,
with the G ten currencies moving higher. We're now going
to hear from President Trump in the White House alongside
his counterpart from Bahrain
Speaker 6 (39:55):
The Prime Minister
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive
from coast to coast, with Caroline Hide in New York
and Edlavelow in San Francisco.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
This is Bloomberg Tech coming up In Video's CEO says
he anticipates getting the first batch of US licenses to
explore H twenty AI chips to China very soon. Plus
more from Cryptoweek on the Hill after Trump says the
House will pass the Genius Acts, Stablecorn bill today and
Elon Musk's XAI is in discussions to lease data center
(00:45):
capacity in Saudi Arabia. We bring you the Bloomberg exclusive.
Good morning. Let's get right to markets, and we are
very focused right now on the chip sector ASML. These
are the Dutch shares trading in Amsterdam of the world's
leading chip equipment maker or chip making equipment maker. The
story's really clear the vision they've given us for twenty
(01:08):
twenty six. They are not holding to that in terms
of growth or a year of growth. But what really
spooped the markets was a comment from the CFO about
how right now chip makers and customers are very worried
about tariffs will go deeper later in the hour, then
you have in video. So actually in video was kind
of not doing much this morning. We know that Jensen
one is in China talking up the success of being
(01:29):
able to sell in a limited way some AI chips
back into that market over the course of three days.
We had a big game yesterday pushing the market cap
well beyond four trillion dollars, with giving some of that
back this morning. The anxiety in this Wednesday session is
slightly linked to let's say, digits from ASML. Anyway, Jensen
Onong's been talking up a storm. Listen to this. Some
(01:52):
of the things that we wrote off.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Might be harder to recover, but most of the things
that he quit on reserve.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Will not be.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Scrapped permanently was not scrapped permanently. So we'll compare what
customers would like to buy now versus the inventory that we.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Have, and then we can figure that out.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
It's probably not one hundred percent, but it's not sero
percent either.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Let's get more on Nvidio and the relaxation of some
of those chip cuts. Bluebos. Mike Shepherd joins us out
of DC and Jensmong's had paid a number of times.
Actually in the last twelve to twenty four hours in
Beijing in China. And let's say he's basking a little
bit in what is a big win for him and
a big win for the company.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Well, that's fair to say, because this really was a
big turn about by the Trump administration in basically lifting
these export curbs on the AGE twenty that it had
imposed just back in April, and much to in Nvidia's chagrin,
it prompted the company to take a four point five
billion dollars right down on the previous quarter, and it
(02:57):
had been looking at losses of perhaps as much as
eight billion dollars in sales for the current quarters. So
this is a potentially big gain. And Jensen Wong is
saying that he is expecting those licenses very soon ed
although he didn't give an exact timeline, and there's still
some unanswered questions about that too, the scope of it.
We don't know exactly what this backlog of orders that
(03:18):
Jensen is saying are still on the books that they
can fulfill very quickly once they get the licenses. And
it's also not clear whether the permission that the US
government now is signaling that it will start giving extends
beyond the inventory that Jensen was talking about that have
been held up by the restrictions that were imposed. Likewise,
we don't know if this will be a rubber stamp
(03:40):
process by the US. In other words, will it be
quick as Jensen is suggesting, or will there be some
bureaucratic tangles here. So there are some questions about how
far this goes and whether this might extend to future
chips that Nvidia may try to sell.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
There bureaucratic tangles. There's also the political entanglement as well.
There's been a lot of headlines i think in the
last twenty four hours, with Jensen Wong in the center
of them because he is in China, and there's a
timing question because he met with the President of the
United States last week. Do we use Nvidia as any
kind of sign that the relationship between the two countries,
(04:16):
the United States and China is evolving or changing in
real time as well?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
You know, it really does fit into the broader picture
of how US China relations are really evolving fairly quickly,
you know, since Liberation Day when Donald Trump imposed you know,
these eyewatering terrists in the world's second largest economy really
prompting a reckoning between Washington and Beijing, enforcing negotiators from
(04:43):
both sides to sit down and really hash it out
over trade. They didn't get too far into the weeds,
but they did address some of the key issues, and they.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Included export controls.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
The US has been concerned that China have been holding
back on sales of rarers elements to American customers, and likewise,
Beijing have been complaining about export controls like the ones
that we are talking about applying to the H twenty chip,
but also to chip design software and other elements. So
we got a sense that there has been a little
bit of a quid pro quo, something that Treasury Secretary
(05:16):
Scott Bessen acknowledged during his interview with our colleague Gamery
who are Durned, yesterday morning, and something that we are
seeing fitting into this broader pattern of perhaps a little
bit more rap Prochemont Secretary of State Marco Rubio has
been meeting with his Chinese counterparts to try to set
the stage for a summit between President Donald Trump and
his counterpart, Chinese President Shijimping sometime before the end of
(05:40):
the year, and likewise, Trump has also been signaling a
softer tone. He's saying that he will fight China in
a friendly fashion. And likewise, according to reporting from our
colleagues Jenny Leonard and Mackenzie Hawkins inside the room, inside
those meetings at the White House, Trump is one of
the least hawkish voices when it comes to China.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Shepherd in Washington, d C. Thank you very much. Let's
stick with the semiconductor space broadly. This is shares of ASML, right,
the world's most important leading edge maker of lithography machines
EUV lithography. They used to manufacture chips, and what has
happened this morning is the company has walked back its
forecast for next year twenty twenty six. Let's get out
(06:20):
to London and Bloomberg's Henry Wren. That is a part
of the story, right, So in that European session the
stocks off loads but down more than ten percent, Henry.
The other part was the CFO saying, our customers are
really worried about tarifs. Right now, give us the summary, yes, sir, yes, indeed.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
So usually every quarter when it's about trades trays about
its orders intake number. This quarter the order intake number
is satisfactory.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
It beat estimates. However, one light in.
Speaker 5 (06:48):
This press release created court Trailer's attention, and that's CEO
saying that although the company is still preparing for growth
for twenty twenty six, the company really couldn't confirm that
at this stage because that contrasted with the company's messaging
about three months ago saying that based on its client
conversations at that time, twenty twenty six was still expected
(07:09):
to be a year of growth.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
So this really.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
Set dampens the sentiment. As you mentioned, we see celldowns
in some other chip equipment companies today as well, including
Applied Materials.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
KOA in the US.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
As well as ASMI B Semiconductor as well in the Netherlands.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
What about the course of gone, I mean, is there
any sense of how the health of the business is
right now?
Speaker 5 (07:33):
Yes, so let's talk about Let's focus on the EUV first,
because that's the most important growth factor for the company,
and according to the order intake that we've been seeing
in the past quarter, it does seem that TSMC has
been putting into more orders, which is ASML's most important customer. However,
for many other customers, the uncertainty.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Level is on the rise. We talked about.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
You know, the Trumpet administration is backtracking many of its
eye watering tariffs. However, based on the conversations ISML has
forsed many of its clients, it does seem that the
uncertainty level is on the rise rather than on the decline.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Ismel explained that it's because of two reasons.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
On the direct side, you still have this Section two
three two investigation going on on the US, which means
the terriffs imposed to chips and chip making equipment is
still unknown. And on the other hand, you have this
terriff's impact on the economy, which many chip makers are
more concerned about. So on the direct and indirect side,
the company is getting more cautious, Its customers are getting
(08:36):
more cautious. So that's probably why you see the company
walking back its guidance a bit today.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Blue makes Henry ran out of London. Thank you very much.
Let's get to the chip in AI sectors in greater
depth with an investor. Jay Hatfield, CEO CIO of Infrastructure
Capital Advisors. It's hard to know whether to start on
trade and policy, or the politics of the day between
America in China, or the idiosyncratic that Henry was going through.
(09:04):
But right now tariff seems to connect all of those things.
What are you seeing across the technology sector in how
investors are responding to tariffs but also how the companies
themselves are communicating the impact.
Speaker 6 (09:17):
Thanks Ed, It's great to be back on.
Speaker 7 (09:19):
Well.
Speaker 6 (09:19):
The way we look at tariffs is they're actually very
positive for the US and very negative for the rest
of the world, and you're seeing that today with ASML.
But US companies are mostly except maybe Apple, mostly unaffected
by the tariffs, a lot of met local manufacturing, So
you continue to see tech stocks lead the market. But
(09:41):
what I think most people are missing is the revenue
benefit to the US. So we're forecasting three hundred billion
of revenue from tariffs, which is really the run rate
right now, and we're also forecasting that the budget deficit
declines next year at a one point four only that's
(10:01):
only four and a half percent of GDP, so nobody
else is really looking at those numbers. It is good
for the US to collect revenue, pay down or have
less of a deficit, which ultimately will be invested and
help the economy.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Jay I think the top story over the course of
several days has been in Nvidia, the world's most valuable company,
now being more free in a limited way to sell
chips back into China. It's a headline and it's a
single company. But what does that signal to you on
the policy side about how America will continue to trade
with China?
Speaker 6 (10:37):
Well, I think what you're seeing is that the Trump administration,
notwithstanding the tariffs which can be negative for a lot
of companies and trade restrictions which hurt Nvidia three or
four months ago, is that they are pro business and
if you lobby the administration, they are open to changing policy.
So ultimately that's going to support the stock market. It's
(10:59):
going to be published for tech companies. So they're just
way more practical than the prior administration and way more
pro business.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
You track a series of economic indicators, right, what is
yourjection on the net effect of this administration's policy? Do
you see growth near, medium term, long term or what
do you think we're being set up for going forward?
On the fiscal side.
Speaker 6 (11:26):
Well, it's fairly complicated because tariffs are negative for the
economy in the very short run because you just take
it's really like the sales tax, so you take buying
power away from consumers. But the real issue is the
FED is misanalyzing tariffs. They're not treating them as one time.
(11:46):
They're sticking with their archaic expectations theory of inflation that
tariffs might cause expectations and spiral out of control, which
we think is no longer no.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Longer tru Let me ask you this, that's your view
on this current FED administration? Right, I have to acknowledge
that in the markets right now there is movement across
assets on the reports and speculation about what the administration
may or may not do visa v FED chairman Powe, Right,
I think we see that in the markets. What do
you make of that potential change? And I'd note for
(12:23):
our audience, right, this is Bloomberg Tech. We talk about
tech companies that are valued on their future earnings, so
rates impact that equation, right, take it from there.
Speaker 6 (12:33):
Well, we actually have a differentiated view that if in
fact the FED chair gets replaced, of course, the stock
market probably would react negatibility. That would just be a
buying opportunity for a couple of reasons. First of all,
the power FED has been tremendously behind the curve. They
use a flawed CPI, so they're always about two years
behind the curve. But also a new FED chair is
(12:56):
not going to have super loose monetary powers, so just
have a normal monetary policy, and they have to deal
with the existing board, which has the core board has
four Democrats on it, so they're not going to be
all powerful. They're not going to lower rates too quickly.
And it's important to note that rates are altered tight now,
so we really really need to cut.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
That was in the context of media reports on the
president's consideration of whether or not he can or will
fire chaed FED chair Japower. Bloomberg's not verified that reporting,
but as we discuss Jay, we see it in the market.
Jay Hatfield of Infrastructure Capital Advisor's great to have you
back on the show. Thank you. Now. Coming up, Mark
Zuckerberg is set to face off against Meta shareholders in
(13:39):
a trial over the company's handling have used the data.
We're going to get the details next. This is Bloomberg
Tech today is in court in Delaware over allegations from
(14:03):
shareholders related to the fallout from the Cambridge Analytica data
mining scandal. I want to go to Boomberg's Riley Griffin,
who's here in sf. Okay, so the trials underway, what
is the context and the basis of the trial, who's involved?
What do we need to know?
Speaker 8 (14:17):
And this is a case that is not just about privacy,
but it is about power. Mark Zuckerberg is expected to
testify alongside former COO Cheryl Sandberg and board members about
the Cambridge Analytica scandal, which has had quite a long
shadow over Meta. But in this case, Meta is not
a defendant. Actually just the executives and the board members are,
(14:39):
and the shareholders in this case are looking to hold
them financially accountable for the fallout of that scandal.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Okay, history is important here. Earlier in my career, Cambridge
Analytica scandal was a big story. What are the basics
of it that our audience, who may or may not know,
need to know.
Speaker 8 (14:54):
Yes, years ago, this was a case where Cambridge Analytica
firm had harvested data of millions of face Book users inappropriately.
This firm had ties to political operations the Trump campaign,
and ultimately Facebook had to pay a multi billion dollar
settlement to the FTC for that data breach.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Okay, what are the shareholders actually accusing the specific executive
of ben if it's not the company that's a defendant,
and it's those key names. What is it the shareholders won?
Speaker 8 (15:24):
Yeah, negligence, a lack of oversight over over the company's
actions during that time. Now, remember Mark Zuckerberg has total
control over the company via his voting power. He has
the majority control over votes and essentially can set company direction.
And shareholders here are saying that these executives didn't do
their appropriate duty, didn't follow FTC orders, and allowed this
(15:48):
breach to happen knowing that there were certain.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Risks at hand. I feel like there's a lot of
litigation going on with Meta. It's hard to distinguish and
work how all these different paths. This one's happening in Delaware.
Why is it happening now? Again, Like I reflect that
the Cambridge Analyticus scandal was more than a decade ago
something like that.
Speaker 8 (16:11):
Yeah, so it's great that you bring up Delaware because
what makes this an unprecedented case is it's the first
time we're seeing a CEO and board members actually go
to court. Usually these kinds of things are settled or
negotiated behind closed doors, and we're actually seeing this trial
take place in Delaware, and it really has ramifications for
all companies out there, whether or not Mark Zuckerberg and
(16:35):
other executives are having to pay billions in dollars for
this scandal. Now, one thing we need to remember is
this is a really hard case to win these care
mark claims. The battle is uphill, and it could set
the direction for whether Meta ultimately reincorporates outside of Delaware
in the future.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
So, Riley Griffin of Bloomberg News and Bloomberg Tag, you're
kind of like six months into this beat of covering Meta,
and so much has happened in the first half of
the year. What I would like to get from you
is is Mark Zuckerberg himself, like he actually does appear
and gives testimony in the context of litigation or if
it is a political hearing something like that, he often
will stand up and speak right yes.
Speaker 8 (17:14):
And that's an evolution of his career. What we've learned
from our reporting and my reporting over the last six
months has been that Mark Zuckerberg really wants to take
legal fights to court. Now this is no longer a
time where he wants to just settle, but he wants
to set the precedent that Meta can win these cases
and in this case, he can.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
You wrote an extensive and deep piece in BusinessWeek about
the kind of magnification. Yeah, of Mark Zuckerberg. I really
encourage the audience to go out and read it. But
you mentioned that the evolution of his career, there's also
been an evolution of him personally politically. Could you summarize
what you learned through that?
Speaker 8 (17:51):
Oh, apologies, this is something for kids.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
That is his vibe.
Speaker 8 (17:56):
He has said this publicly, he said it privately. He
has done apologizing for scandals of the past and ready
to move on and really dominate the space and that
demands winning, whether it's on the legal front or politically speaking.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
So the big news this week in Meta's world has
been this commitment for massive, massive scale data center. You know,
I break the story this morning, We're going to do
it later and to show that XAI is looking at
Saudi Arabia because you need the capital, the space, the energy.
But what Meta is doing, you know that the image
that they give is it could cover Manhattan. The scale
(18:29):
of what they want to do. Summarize it as best
you can, and what our read on it was, Yeah.
Speaker 8 (18:33):
So hundreds of billions of dollars. That's how much Meta
is expecting to spend on this AI race to beat
out the competition over time, overtime, overtime. We know that
this year, as of the last quarter results, they're expecting
to spend you know, as much as seventy two billion
in capital expenditures, a lot on data centers as you mentioned,
and we're seeing two hundred million dollars pay packages for
(18:56):
AI talent they're poaching from Open AI. I mean, this
is a really relentless race, and Meta is putting all
the capital it has on hand to win it.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Bloomer's Riley Griffin, thank you very much. Some headlines that
there crossing the Bloomberg terminal. President Trump is likely to
fire FED chair Powell, according to White House officials and
Bloomberg's reporting that could happen soon. Bloomberg also reporting that
Trump spoke to lawmakers on Tuesday about whether or not
two hours Powell. I'd note some of the market reaction.
(19:26):
We're showing the Bloomberg US Dollar Spot Index, the Dollar
Spot Index raising gains after that report, also seeing treasuries
pair gains after earlier reports. Will continue to bring you
what we know throughout the day. All right, coming up,
we're going to discuss the fate of the Genius Act
stable Cooin bill, as with Kavieta Gutter from the Delta
Blockchain Fund. This is Bloomberg Tech crypto stocks rising along
(19:55):
with Bitcoin after President Trump said the House of Representatives
will pass the Genius Act stable Coin bill today. This
after a procedural vote failed. Yes, they want to get
out Scavie to go to general partner at the Delta
Blockchain Fund. There is some political wrangling going on, but
it looks like the Genius Act stable Cooin bill moves forward.
Why is it important it does so? Hi Ed?
Speaker 9 (20:17):
I mean Genius Act is basically putting a basic structure
of what stable points should have already been a long
time back. If the stable cooin bills or the Genius
Act actually provides any companies who are doing stable coins
the rules and regulations around how to really release them,
how much pillateral do you want, what sort of underlining,
(20:37):
transparency and accountability associated with it should be there? And
I think those are the things which companies like Circle
were always watching. But putting a standard structure would help
a lot of fintech companies, like whether it's Square block
or a bunch of other portfolio bunch of other financial
companies to actually release it in a right way.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
We've been asking ourselves when this bill passes, what happens next.
And the hope from your industry, as I understand it,
is that there's just going to be much wider use
of dollar denominated digital tokens. Dollarization, as David Sachs would
call it and has done here on this program. Is
that what you're hoping for. Yeah, I'm hoping for three
(21:17):
different results.
Speaker 9 (21:18):
First, we have to understand that more stable coin, especially
in US denominated, is going to have adoption.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
You are actually creating.
Speaker 9 (21:26):
A soft power around US dollar beyond the trillion dollar deficit.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Which we already had or a debt.
Speaker 9 (21:32):
You're actually making a more US pegged economy in the world,
which is really big for US dollars and the United
States comments, and I think that's why President Trump is
really pushing for it. Secondly, it does legitimate everything around
crypto with respect to USD denominated currency. It will give
a big high for the prices in bitcoin, ethereum and
(21:54):
all the other stuff which we are looking at denominated
in USD. So that's a very big one, and most
important is for a normal regular customer, very viptu customer,
as we say, would actually start understanding crypto adoption using
stable coin and would be a very comfortable segme into crypto.
So I do feel like, not only for the industry,
but as a country, it's a very big bit.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Okay, So House vote on the Genius Acts stable Coin
bill today. We'll track it. We'll bring you the latest
when we get it. Kavida Goetze from the Delta Blockchain Fund,
thank you very much. Now coming up, fueling the growing
AI race, we look towards the future of energy is
data center demand ces no signs of slowing down. Data
center is everywhere at the moment, so much more to discuss.
(22:37):
This is Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. Let's
get back to the story from earlier in the hour,
(22:57):
Bloomberg reporting citing a White House official, that President Trump
is likely to fire Federal Reserve Chairman J Powell very soon.
The market reaction was in the US dollar, but we
also saw G ten peers climb on those headlines. Bloomberg
also confirming earlier reporting that yesterday the President met with
Guope lawmakers to discuss whether or not he ought to
(23:19):
oust bedchair Japowe. That's what we'll keep tracking. Markets are
moving in real time. Also thinking a lot about the
semiconductor space because of ASML's earnings. Right that is a
big story right now. They scrapped their year of growth
forecast for twenty twenty six. But the big headline that's
spooped investors is that the CFO is saying customers are
very worried about tariffs. These are shares that were trading
(23:42):
in Amsterdam. The market in Europe now closed, but that
is a big drop, almost eleven percent. Those are the
public markets. Let's go from public markets to private markets,
a story I broke with colleagues yesterday. SpaceX is planning
an insider share sale that would value the company at
about four hundred billion dollars. That's according to our sources.
The per share price is two hundred and twelve dollars,
(24:02):
and that's up substantially from the one hundred and eighty
five dollars set in the prior transaction that was December.
This deal marks a rapidly climbing value for Musk's rocket
and satellite maker, which is now the most valuable private
startup in the world. Sticking with mister Musk. Elon Musk's
Ai startup XAI is in discussions to least data center
(24:24):
capacity in Saudi Arabia. That's according to sources, it's all
part of an effort to expand infrastructure in regions offering
cheap energy but also political goodwill. I want to get
out to our AI editor Seth Figerman, who joins us
on the story. Seth, this is something we reported with
colleagues in Europe and in the Middle East this morning.
My understanding is from sources there's one key name, which
(24:46):
is Humane. That's who XAI is talking to. What do
we need to know here?
Speaker 10 (24:51):
You know, I think this is one of the rare
providers in the region that could probably get XAI you know,
several gigawads of capacity in the coming years I can
speak to. I think the scope of Elon's ambition. You know,
it was only a year or so ago that people
are still scratching their heads about what you want to
do with XAI and where really sat in the ecosystem.
Now we're looking at a company that is tonally valued
(25:11):
at around two hundred billion dollars, you know, and expanding
infrastructure at a scale that's starting to rival open ai
and Meta, though perhaps not quite at the same level yet.
Of course, what we're waiting to hear is now, what's
the product, what's the revenue stream?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
All of that that makes it a big business, right,
So in Memphis, Tennessee, you have Colossus hyper scale data
center footprint. The rest of the reporting is that you know,
they might also be looking at the UAE. There's a
relationship with g forty two and elon Mask. They might
be looking at Africa. The main thing is you just
mentioned it the products. Where is xai at You know,
(25:44):
groc four was this big moment on social media, But
what do we know about the model when it's capabilities?
Speaker 10 (25:50):
Yeah, I mean this still feels like a company that's
making more headlines for the controversies than for the capabilities
of its products. That's it does seem to be higging
benchmarks that are comparable to some of the leaving providers
out there, including OPENINGI. But what we have not seen
really from Xaiya is a play a real central role
in the business and developer ecosystem. This is not a
company that's partner and done deals with a bunch of
(26:11):
fortune five hundred brands it's not necessarily a central tool
for developers and software engineers. They are starting to implement
higher price tiered products that might start to jem up revenue.
But I don't know that we've really seen approve the
business case yet, but we going as where it goes
in the next six months.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Bloomberg Seth Fighaman, thank you very much for joining us.
Let's get more on the race for AI data centers.
Katherin Huff University of Illinois, a Barna Champaign Associate professor,
somebody that has also held multiple roles in the Department
of Energy across the US government. That report just there.
I broke it with colleagues this morning in the Middle East.
(26:48):
But what's interesting about it was my understanding is XAI
musk rationale is to look to regions where energy is cheapest,
which puts a reflection on the Stata player in this
country as well. Would you just give us your reaction
to that reporting. Yeah, I think it makes a lot
of sense.
Speaker 7 (27:04):
Right as power demand goes way up, you're going to
need to see some balance between the cost of running
these data centers with the cost of powering them, which
is going to be a huge component you know, a
lot of AI data center companies are looking towards new
energy and building new energy for the grid, like nuclear energy.
(27:26):
I'm a nuclear engineering professor, so that's where my expertise lies,
and I immediately think of countries that might build new
nuclear as options for that.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
The focus this week has been in Pennsylvania and Pittsburgh,
and there was a commitment from one company, call Weave,
to invest in that state in data center capacity. I
just want to play you a SoundBite from call Wee'
CEO on the big picture of where he sees the need.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
The broader issue really that has echoed around this conference
and it has been an extraordinary conference has really been
about the need to be able to build and scale
the energy infrastructure of the country, to be able to
build and scale the computing infrastructure for artificial intelligence so
that America can maintain its position as a.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Leader in the space.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
And in many ways, the physical infrastructure for artificial intelligence,
the compute, the clusters, that is going to define our
ability to lead within this space.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
The need to scale energy infrastructure, Katie, how great is
that need?
Speaker 7 (28:35):
Yeah, the pace of builds needed to ramp up the
amount of power that we're talking about here is in
the gigawats, right, and this is the kind of challenge
that we were facing already with regard to replacing fossil
fuel sources in the United States. Is in the many
tens or hundreds of gigawatts by twenty fifty. Add on
(28:55):
to that the need to build more power for data centers,
and you get a situation where you know, hundreds of
new nuclear reactors need to be deployed or you know,
other hopefully clean energy technologies.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Does the regulatory environment support that?
Speaker 7 (29:13):
Yeah, you know, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission has a number
of activities focused on accelerating licensing. Now, I am a
bit concerned about the way that the Trump administration has
worked in the last few months to reduce its independence
as a regulator. I'm increasingly concerned about recent actions being
taken by the administration. A really strong, independent, well funded,
(29:37):
fully staffed regulator enables ensuring standards that are going to
be met and that the public is being kept safe,
and they can speed up their process for sure. But
my understanding is they're working on it.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Katie. We've had many of the nuclear operators or would
be nuclear operators come on this program particularly those that
have relationships with technology companies. But when I look at
their timelines, we're talking end of the decade at least
to come online. But they argue nuclear is the only option.
Solar wind, other sources of renewed energy just won't cut it.
(30:12):
Summarize your position on whether they're right or wrong.
Speaker 7 (30:15):
Yeah, absolutely, You know, I think nuclear energy is extremely
well suited to supporting AI and data centers and a
number of other sort of critical infrastructure needs that we're
going to have near near term. You know, largely because
of its reliability. It's on twenty four to seven. It's scalable, right,
it has a very small land footprint, and you know,
tech companies that have made clean energy commitments and climate
(30:38):
commitments globally, these are global companies. They also value that
nuclear energy is emissions free, and so it's extremely well suited.
But those constructions have to be starting now in order
to make it to the twenty thirty two, twenty thirty
five timelines that we're talking about sort of gigawatts worth
of expansion. You know, I know that a number of
AI companies said yesterday that if there were those gigawatts
(31:00):
ready to buy today, they would be buying them. Nuclear
isn't there yet, but a number of nuclear builds are
on the way.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Katie, half of the University of Illinois. It's great to
have you here on Bloomberg Tech. Thank you very much.
And when it comes to powering AI data centers, the
US facing a bottleneck, Katie just explained a bit of
it there at Bloomberg Green in Seattle yesterday. Long term,
long time, well known silicon and Valley investor in Okosla
discuss the types of energy he thinks can fuel our
(31:29):
future AI ambitions.
Speaker 11 (31:31):
The change in demand is what has caused the problem.
Now nimbiism like grid again is going to be a problem.
Speaker 12 (31:40):
But data centers don't need the grid. You can put
the data center over the power sources. So I do
think grid helps.
Speaker 11 (31:52):
But the demand problem is created by the projected increase
in demand from AI data centers.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Which can be who did near barer sources. Coming up,
nineteen Labs launches its first commercial drone flight, successfully delivering
medicine in Guyana. We're going to speak with nineteen Lab
CEO Ramfish. That's next. This is Bloomberg Tech. This is
(32:23):
Bloomberg Tech. You're looking at the live shot of the
principal room. Check out the Bloomberg Tech podcast. You can
find it on the terminal as well as online on Apple,
Spotify and on iHeart. This is Bloomberg Tech. Nineteen Labs
(32:46):
is taking telehealth to the skies. The company has launched
its Gale four s drone powered by Starlink and Nvidia
AI to autonomously deliver medicine and digital health toolkits from
more I want to bring in nineteen Lab. CEO Raumfish
is with us here in San Francisco. So the first
kind of case study or successful should call it admission
(33:06):
is in Guyana. What did you achieve and why that nation?
In particular.
Speaker 13 (33:13):
We've been working in Ghana for the last few years
and the president and the government of other is very
egoty use technology to improve the country and use the
new found money from GAZZ to actually have a positive impact.
So we've been building a public private partnership with them
for the last few years, bringing advanced technology, starting with
(33:37):
telemedicine and now launching the dun delivery of medication and
bringing back from those whole indigenous communities blood samples or
other goods to the regional hospitals.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
So we talked a little bit about the technology. You know,
I cover in video very closely and for a long time,
Jensen Wong's been telling me about real world AI and
physical AI. You use video is a partner, but how
does that work?
Speaker 13 (34:04):
There are two technologies that are transforming what we can
do in those remote places. Traditionally you haven't been able
to go there physically. Drown is changing this, and you
haven't been able to communicate. Duran's is changing this. The
Nvidia piece comes on top of it allows us to
automate and monitor and perform during operation in a much safer,
(34:29):
more autonomous way, and that directly ties into the costs.
And when you are dealing with the next one billion
people in the world population, one of the major consideration
is innovating at the cost point. That's why Nvidia is
transformative here as well on.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
The data side. Or you have physical silicon inside of we.
Speaker 13 (34:49):
Have physical silicon inside because of the AI is moving
to the edge, so we actually have both the starling
on the drawn and the Nvidia on the drawn to
the real time processing of what's happening on the drawn,
so it can fly autonomously in a safe way.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Astonishing you know, Starlink is available in so many formats
and mediums, you know, industrial scale on aeroplanes in the home.
How did you negotiate with them to get a receiver
locally onto the drone.
Speaker 13 (35:17):
The Starlink Mini is kind of the smallest model of
the starlinks drown't you know we're not talking about the dgis. Well,
we are looking on something that's better be called unmanned
aircraft and these are just growing every year now, like
we can carry twenty five pounds this year, by next
(35:37):
week they're looking at one hundred and fifty pounds and
men's aircraft. So yeah, you put the Starlink on it.
In the moment you put Starling, you completely transform how
you can fly because the pilot can fit view the weather,
view the physical location monitor throughout.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
The flight in very low latency.
Speaker 13 (35:55):
Almost no latency, sits with a joystick. You know, in
the past of technology has only been available for expensive
military usage. We believe in drans for good and this
telling has been able to enable us to transform this
put the Stellink on the downs and offer those services.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
In my study in research of you, I know you
to be more kind of involved in the smartphone market
historically working at Apple other OEMs. How did you get
into drones?
Speaker 13 (36:25):
Oh, I've always been into aviation since I was a kid.
And if you think about the dawn nowadays, done is
no longer that much of a aero challenge or aerospace challenge.
A don is much more of a computer with sensor
and models and software and communications that you need to
come together. Well, that's what I did at Apple, That's
(36:48):
what I did in some song leading digital health, and
that's where I started when I build the first staf
phone in the world at the Browser in ninety five.
It's building the how do well and the software together
or to create amazing.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Products just very quick.
Speaker 7 (37:03):
You know.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Zip Line is a company that we've covered on this
program deeply. It's very analogous in many years what you're doing.
They've been able to scale in different markets. Do you
see them as the main competitor. Do you try to
emulate them?
Speaker 13 (37:16):
I think they are absolutely a fantastic company and they
are doing amazing things. We try to take a slightly
different approaches in them. They are much more vertically integrated
and everything needs to be technology powered. We believe in
achieving balance between what I called ai and agi. There
is a space to use humans in the operation of grants,
(37:38):
especially in rule and indigenous places, and being able to balance.
You know, you can have local people charge the drans unpeck.
The drans have it land in the communities. It also
means that you empower and educate local people.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
So rum Fish ninety lab CEO, thank you very much.
We got to get out to Washington, DC and Bloomber's
Kale lines and speak more about headlines that President Trump
very likely to pow to fire a FED chair pal. Kaylee,
update me, what's the latest.
Speaker 14 (38:10):
Yeah, Bloomberg is reporting this, according to a White House
official familiar with the matter, though they do caution ed
that no final decision has yet been made. But yes,
it does seem that the President may be getting closer
to the point where he makes the call to at
least try to fire at the FED Chair Jerome Powell.
And he spoke about this, we understand with Republican lawmakers
who were gathered at the White House Tuesday evening here
in Washington. The New York Times in fact actually reporting
(38:32):
that he waived in front of them a draft letter
of his firing of Chairman Pal. So there certainly is
an escalation in what has been an ongoing feud, if
you will, at least one sided feud between the Trump
White House and the FED chairs. The President has continually
pushed the chair to lower rates substantially. The question is
going to be whether or not a he does this,
but also if he has the legal grounds to do
(38:54):
so when we actually look at the Federal Reserve Act.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Of course, a FED.
Speaker 14 (38:57):
Governor can only be removed for cause. It's unclear exactly
in terms of reading the LAG what it actually means
to try to fire a FED chairman, though of course,
as FED chair he is a FED governor as well,
and there's a question of to what extent this would
be applicable to both of the titles that he holds.
It also is a question of what exactly that cause
(39:17):
would be, because simply not lowering interest rates isn't necessarily
a justified cause, which is why we may have seen
the administration put in continued focus on specifically the cost
of the renovation to the FED buildings here in Washington,
suggesting that Powell may have lied to Congress about that.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
So this is a.
Speaker 14 (39:33):
Story we're continuing to watch, and we may get more
from President Trump on that in just a moment as
he sits down with the Crown Prince and Prime Minister
of Bahrain in the Oval Office d.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
We're also looking at the dollar right The biggest reactions
to these headlines was in the dollar spot index, of course,
with the G ten currencies moving higher. We're now going
to hear from President Trump in the White House alongside
his counterpart from Bahrain
Speaker 6 (39:55):
The Prime Minister
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