July 14, 2025 • 38 mins
Bloomberg’s Ed Ludlow discusses Panasonic’s new electric vehicle battery plant in De Soto, Kansas, with Panasonic NA CEO Megan Myungwon Lee and the CEO of Lucid, a key battery customer. Plus, Bloomberg’s Jackie Davalos breaks down Meta’s plans to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on compute power to build superintelligence. And Bitcoin’s value soars as Congress kicks off Crypto Week.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is live
from coast to coast with Caroline Hige to New York
and Ed Lovelow in San Francisco.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
This is Bloomberg Tech. I'm Jackie Devalas here in New York.
Coming up. Ed Ludlow is live in DeSoto, Kansas from
Panasonic's newest EV battery plant. We'll have the live conversations
with Panasonic North America CEO and Lucid CEO. Sour Plus
Bitcoin soares past one hundred and twenty thousand dollars as
(00:44):
Congress starts Crypto Week, and Musk says Tesla shareholders will
vote on whether to invest in his AI startup XAI.
Let's head over to DeSoto, Kansas, where Panasonic has just
unveiled its latest EV battery plant. At Ludlow is standing
by h What are you seeing?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Ed?
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Yeah, this is a four point seven million square feet
facility that at full capacity thirty gig or what hours,
enough for five hundred thousand evs for animal powered by
these little guys twenty one to seventy cells. And we're
delighted to be joined by Panasonic Corporation of North America
CEO Meghan beong on Lee regular contributor to the show.
But this was the moment you and I talked about
(01:25):
it earlier in the year. What does it mean for
Panasonic in America and American manufacturing of battery technology?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
So this is more than a ten year vision.
Speaker 5 (01:36):
We wanted to do this and we wanted to go
big in this market. So we had a commitment and
we started in Reno and Nevada, and this is our
factory that we're diversifying our ev strategy, and we're going
to be full production this year and it's really exciting.
Today's a fun and exciting day, and this is a celebration.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Full production this year. The sales are already coming off
the line. Could you just explain the roadmap for the ramp,
because no facility is straightforward, but this is the size
of two hundred American football fields.
Speaker 6 (02:07):
How are you going to get to full capacity this year?
Speaker 5 (02:10):
So we started in November twenty twenty two, two and
a half years ago, and it was all flat field
and it was a massive land and we started a
construction and we started the production and testing last week
and we're going to produce the batteries this year, and
(02:31):
you probably saw the cars that we have in Display
and Tesla, Lucid and Hexagon Truck and we're really excited
to work with different suppliers and partners and clients this year.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
We're going to discuss in detail those customers. They're really
key to this. There were media reports Friday nights that
there would be a delay in reaching full capacity, and
what the report stated was that was due to demand.
Are you able to comment on that report? And it
sounds like they were missing formed if you are going
to hit full capacity this year.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I do think it was misinformed.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
And we're very We're a Japanese company and when we
say when we commit to something, we're fully committed and
we want to make sure that we support all the customers.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
That were committed.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
We're not feeling the slow down yet, and we're very
bollish on working with all those customers.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
When you say you're not feeling the slow down, that
means that you're seeing consistent orders from those key customers
or they're still committing to orders in advance.
Speaker 6 (03:34):
What do you mean by the definition of what you
just said.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
So we have the operation in Reno and that's going
very healthy and we're seeing the commitments coming in for
this facility as well, so we're not feeling the slow
down yet but yet again, I mean, you see this operation.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
This is a.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
Long term commitment, so there may be some pushback or
moving ahead, but we're committed for a long term and
we're not shying away from those from time to time challenges.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Throughout the morning, there was a lot of discussion about
Tesla because Tesla makes the best selling EV model in
the world this specific facility. Does Tesla dominate the proportion
of output or is it more evenly split across your
different customers.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
So we're working with Tesla for sure, and we're working
with Lucid and Hexagon and other clients. So it is
to diversify our EV manufacturing in the United States.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
What do you mean by diversify move away from one
sort of core customer, No, not really.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
We're expanding, right So we're definitely working with Tesla, but
we want to work with other establish the.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
OEMs as well as startups. So it's part of our
efforts to expand our strategy and manufacturing output as well.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
What signals has Tesla given you about its future orders,
about the health.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
Of its business your guess is as good as mine.
But we have a long term relationship, longer than anyone else,
and there's still a very important strategic partner for us,
and I believe our partnership is very strong.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Throughout the morning, there was a lot of discussion of
how Kansas was the absolute best candidate. What were the
biggest factors in choosing this site. Were they financial? Were
they simply the ability to get things done? Lack of
red tape? Why were we able to move so quickly?
Speaker 5 (05:28):
So we talked about the available workforce and the infrastructure.
I mean you saw the power lines built by the
factory and as well as the.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Energy of procurement that we can do.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
But more than anything, there was something very special about Kansas.
All the officials were able to work with us, and
you probably heard that Lautana Governor Toland taking some of
his speech in not only Japanese but Osaka dilatet and
that level of insights and.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Care and support really made the difference.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
And it doesn't matter what party they are, they're very
committed to bring.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Us here but also make us feel home.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
So that kind of partnership not just numbers and infrastructure,
but emotional partnership made the difference, and we're so happy
to celebrate today.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
What I was going to say on the numbers is
there is a job creation story. So four thousand direct jobs,
I think the numbers twenty thousand indirect jobs when you
take into account supply chain construction. What have you had
to do to kind of bring the other infrastructure you've
needed to de Soto have everything you need around you?
Speaker 5 (06:43):
So what was great about planning it out? Like I said,
we started two and a half years ago, and at
that time we worked with local schools and community colleges
to create curriculums so when we start from manufacturing, they're
there already already taking the course and be available to
take a job.
Speaker 6 (07:02):
To guarantee you had the skill sets.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
Absolutely absolutely, So we created curriculum together and it's been
a really good partnership and it helps us and it
helps the community, and it's like wonderful win win.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
The headline figure was that Panasonic put four billion dollars.
Speaker 6 (07:17):
Into this to SODO facility.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
But you also the reported number is eligible for almost
seven billion dollars from the Inflation Reduction Act.
Speaker 6 (07:26):
How much of that materialized.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
We haven't started the manufacturing here, So we have not
seen the incentives YEF.
Speaker 6 (07:34):
They're setting against milestones.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yes, yes, so it comes with the production.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
So we're looking forward to it and it's definitely a
big part of our investment.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Do you anticipate that you will get access to the
full tranche of money?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
We certainly hope.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
So things have changed, I mean things have changed even
since you and I spoke in January.
Speaker 6 (07:54):
There is some.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Effort underway to reshape or or undo the Inflation Reduction Act.
It seems like the seventy five hundred dollars credit which
goes to the consumer on this vehicle will go, but
the forty five x manufacturer credits seems intact. How have
you navigated that? Is that you'll read.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
On the scenario as well.
Speaker 5 (08:14):
So we're very still a verticle fall that should remain
and I think it should remain. It's not only for us,
but it's for creating jobs and manufacturing and bringing technology
to us. So so far it's very positive and we're
hopeful that it stay is it will be a big
part of our long term strategy.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
What's the supply chain story right now for DeSoto, Kansas?
When you think about your raw material needs and everything
that goes into the cell process. Are there things that
are still difficult?
Speaker 6 (08:46):
What are they? Or has bringing this.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Facility online been smoother because of policy.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
We have been planning for the supply chain resilience, not
just for this and recent terrificuation, but from COVID.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
During COVID, we.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
Really suffered from weak supply chain. I mean, I think
all the industry did, and so did we. So we've
been planning for supply chain resilience and we are I
mean just for our benefit too, to make sure that
those supply chains stay local and within.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
The North America.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
And our goal is to complete fifty percent of our
supply chain by twenty thirty to be completely local.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Are any of the conditions currently associated with that forty
five x manufacturer credit difficult when you think about foreign
entity of concern or parts of the supply chain, which
in the context of metals like China is still a factor.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
Yes, yes, yes, So we started partnering with China and
we are for the supply chain resilience. So we are
trying to diversify and make sure that supply chain.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Is more resilience to make sure that we can procure
and process on site.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
So it's not really a new change for us necessarily,
we've been trying to do that.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
For a few years.
Speaker 6 (10:07):
Where are the bottlenecks right now? If any?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
It's really the refining process to make sure that we
can find a supplier who can make sure that quality
is there. Right the refinement, the quality matters for our
quality production. So that's where we pay most attention, to
make sure that the raw material is ready for quality
EV batteries.
Speaker 7 (10:32):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
It's good for everyone, for consumers.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
We want to make sure those AV batteries are tested
and safe.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
I know this might seem far fetched. We're just bringing
this facility online. Yes, but one of the questions I
got from you from the audience is what happens next?
Speaker 6 (10:50):
You have the Vada, you now have Kansas.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Does Panasonic see further sites for EV in the first instance?
What is your next priority?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
It's TBD.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
Today's first day of this operation, and we're really excited
to make sure that this goes smooth producing quality EV batteries.
We'll focus on their first and if it goes well,
who knows?
Speaker 7 (11:17):
Right?
Speaker 6 (11:19):
Demand is still a question.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Yes. What I find interesting is a lot of the
customer basis pure play EV. But the lesson we've learned
in the last eighteen months or so is hybrid is
still a big part of the market, maybe in a
way that surprised many. Do you have the ability to
tap into demand for hybrid from this facility or others?
Speaker 5 (11:40):
We don't know yet, but we're pleasantly surprised that EB
sales still rows by like eleven point four percent.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
So that's a good sign.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
And like I said, this is a long term play,
so we're not going to be happy and said with
the small ups and downs, we're still bullish that EV
markets should role and hybrid transition should be part of it.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
Have you done a sort of side by side analysis
of the economics of a single cell? Bring mine back out.
I have one single twenty one seventy cell here, so
this will be manufactured in Kansas, not subject to tarifs.
You have the Nevada facility, but Panasonic Energy also has
facilities all around the world. Is it just an instant
fixed that the cell on a unit basis is just
(12:27):
a more attractive economic proposition if it's built here in
Kansas for the American market versus shipping cells.
Speaker 6 (12:33):
In from EU. Overseas facilities.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
It makes a lot more economic sense to produce here, right,
bring raw materials here and produce here anyware.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
And we're cutting in for some breaking news.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Here.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
We have President Trump in the White House with the
NATO Secretary General Tick A. Lissen. That was President Trump
with the NATO Secretary General announcing that he was quote
unhappy with Russia and is threatening secondary terror of one
hundred percent on Russia if a deal with Ukraine is
not reached. But first, let's get to some breaking news
(13:07):
that crossed the wire. Mark Suckerberg, metas CEO, took to
threads to say that the company will invest hundreds of
billions of dollars in computing to build super intelligence. Shares
rows off the news and let's get right to that
with our very own Kurt Wagner. Kurt walk us through
this latest investment in how it compares to the previous
(13:29):
announcements the company has made.
Speaker 8 (13:32):
Yeah, so some of this is as you point out,
you know, hundreds of billions of dollars at the very
eye catching. I will say that is a number that
Mark Zuckerberg has thrown around before historically. He said that
this is you know this this dry for AI is
going to be incredibly expensive. He's even admitted some companies,
presumably his own, will overpay on AI in order not
to fall behind. So hundreds of billions on infrastructure. But
(13:55):
I think, Jackie, when you when you look at this,
why it makes sense is you recall over these last
couple of weeks they've been spending very aggressively to hire
AI talent for this super intelligence group. And I think this,
you know, commitment to these infrastructure side is meant to
sort of go hand in hand with that. Okay, So
we've hired the talent, we have the people in the
building that we think can build this thing, and now
(14:16):
we're putting the money behind the infrastructure to help support them.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Kurt, this announcement has fresh resonance, especially as some of
Meta's competitors are making their own moves to really bolster
their AI ambitions. Talk to us a little bit about
what XAI is hoping to do by tapping some of
Tesla's coffers.
Speaker 8 (14:34):
Yeah, so XAI is become like this central hub of
the Elon Inc. Universe. Right, we've talked about this historically
on this show before, this idea that all of Elon
Musk's various businesses sort of work together and help one another,
and I think that's just become more and more prevalent,
especially as Xai has grown. And so we learned, you
(14:56):
know that SpaceX, for example, is now investing two billion
dollars into Xai. We've seen that Elon Musk plans to
put a shareholder vote to Tesla's shareholders asking if Tesla
should invest in Xtai. We obviously know Xai on Twitter
already merged or x already merged. So this notion that
all of these different sort of businesses of Elon's are
now contributing to the AI business, I think is super notable.
(15:18):
And you can see there are some, you know, to
use the terrible cliche synergies between these companies, right the
idea that groc might be distributed through Tesla's is one
example of that. But it does feel like Elon is saying, Okay,
I have these other businesses that are doing well financially,
I'm going to take some of that cash and try
to use that as jet fuel on my AI startup, Kurt.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
It really depends on the outcome of this shareholder vote.
What is the case that Elon needs to make two
shareholders about what it stands to benefit from this move.
Speaker 9 (15:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (15:52):
Well, I think if you're an Elon, first of all,
you have a ton of loyal shareholders already, people who
want this thing to happen simply because Elon Musk wants
it to happen, right, So you have a pretty strong
base of people. But for those who are on the fence,
I think what you would sit here and say is, look,
this technology, this AI technology is going to be world changing,
transforming if it hasn't you know, already been the case
(16:14):
with self driving for example, being maybe the core Tesla example.
And so I think if you're Eline, you just say, look,
you're putting in money now into a technology that's going
to be worth ten, one hundred times more down the line.
But also you're going to get you know, all of
this data, this infrastructure that I'm building at XAI, and
it could potentially benefit Tesla as well. Again as you
(16:34):
improve self driving, as you know, take Grock for example,
put it into the cars. So if I'm him, I
paint this as very much like a rosy marriage between
the future technology and putting all of that into an automobile,
which I think they're already doing so. I think it's
easy for people to wrap their heads around, but it's
something he's going to have to really hammer home for
those who are skeptical.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Kurt, we know that Bloomberg has reported that Xai is
burning over a billion dollars a month on its AI efforts.
What do we know about how much the company is
bringing in and how that compares to its competitors.
Speaker 8 (17:07):
Yeah, we don't know much about the revenue of Xai
because at this point they're not really as far as
I know, making much money outside of you know, Grock is,
for example, available to subscribers on x there's probably some
kind of financial arrangement, at least there was before the merger,
where you know, each subscriber sort of pays for a
little bit of Grock. But I do think this is
(17:28):
going to be the key, Right you're spending a ton
of money on here. Does this payoff into a real
legitimate business moving forward?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
That's Bloomberg's Kurt Wagner, thanks for joining us. Coming up,
Lucid interim CEO Mark Winterhof joins us from the Panasonic
EV battery plan in Kansas. More Next, this is Bloomberg.
Speaker 10 (17:45):
Tech Welcome back. To Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
We're live in DeSoto, Kansas at Panasonic's brand new EV
battery plants four point seven million square feet at full capacity,
which will happen later this year. So news we broke
with Panasonics North America CEO making the Young one.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
Lee thirty gig or hours of capacity.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
That's enough cells for five hundred thousand evs perannum. One
of the key customers Lucid, and Lucid CEO Mark went
Off Interim CEO Mark winter Off is with us. Now
this is a significant moment for you as well, because
your first domestic supply of cells reflect on that.
Speaker 11 (18:36):
That is true. Yeah, So currently we're getting our battery
supplies either from Japan or from Korea, depending on the supplier,
and Panasonic is a great partner for us. We decided
two and a half years ago to make together this
investment here and to localize the production that's held production
here to county.
Speaker 6 (18:56):
It's not just volume supply. This is twenty one to seven.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
My understanding is there were some co engineering to make
this as good as it can possibly be.
Speaker 6 (19:05):
Explain how that worked.
Speaker 11 (19:07):
It's a great collaboration between our engineering departments and their
engineering department. We bring in a lot of experience on
what this cell is supposed to do in real life,
and they make it happen with chemistry and with all
of the parameters of the cell. So what was really
really great collaboration, and that we also then are able
(19:27):
now to produce us here locally obviously in the current climate,
helps us a lot.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
How did the economics of the DeSoto Candice May twenty one,
seventy stack. I know that you love charts and spreadsheets
as much as I do, but you must have done
that analysis.
Speaker 11 (19:44):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean, like I would say, we wouldn't
have done it if it wouldn't be economically feasible or beneficial.
As I mentioned before, we made that decision, not just recently,
so terrists were not on the radar screen at that time.
We did that decision two and a half years ago,
and at that time, together with the forty five X
(20:07):
incentive a text credit, the economics make sense. I still
have to say, and I hope the Panasic Sonic hears
that that you know, there's some room of improvement. But
also right now obviously with the tariffs, this is a
very good move for.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Us because the same cell that would otherwise have come
from Japan or career is subject to tariffs.
Speaker 11 (20:27):
It is.
Speaker 6 (20:28):
That's a part of the equation that is correct.
Speaker 11 (20:31):
And the other thing that we are currently working on
together with Panasonic is obviously further localizing the supply chain
for the cell because it doesn't do you a lot
of good if your manufacturer here, but you still import
the raw material which is then subject to terriffs. So
we're already doing a lot of investments in that. You
heard about our graphite one investments on the graphite and
(20:54):
other materials, So we're working with them on making that
happen as well.
Speaker 6 (20:59):
Mark, I've come Lucid for a number of years.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
This is the first time you and I have spoken,
and I'm grateful for your time. Your predecesssessor, Peter Rodinson
had a very simple argument. Lucid had the best technology
on the hardware side and software battery management system. And
even though your journey started in the premium segments, that
you would scale to volume because you would just say
(21:22):
this performance and range in this pack, we can just
scale it down make a more affordable version.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
Have we hit that inflection point yet.
Speaker 11 (21:30):
Well, I mean we're about to you know everybody knows
by now that follows loser that you know, we are
very very strongly working on our mid sized platform, right,
which is a you know, smaller platform also from a
price point perspective, more in the round, in the fifty
thousand dollars range and not where we are right now,
(21:50):
and that's when we really hit that inflection point. But
mister gravity, that we are ramping up right now, we
are already expecting to have much higher numbers we had
in the.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Past, right, I think you know, there's a lot of
work to do in the second half of the year
to reach twenty thousand. What role does the DeSoto plan't play?
Will you be able to get hold of sales from
here for vehicles sold or delivered.
Speaker 6 (22:13):
In this calendar year?
Speaker 11 (22:14):
No, not yet, Okay, So it's just something that is
something for next year. And again with our partners with Panasonic,
we are working on opportunities to further bring this in
because obviously, in the current climate, that is very important
for us to localize.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
We've focused this morning a lot on policy. You've brought
up the forty five x credit, but the consumer credit
of seven thousand, five hundred dollars likely no, more.
Speaker 6 (22:40):
What can you do in that environment with the vehicle.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Are you able to pull forward lower price point variant
are you looking to just appeal to the premium.
Speaker 6 (22:50):
Segment on an ongoing basis.
Speaker 11 (22:52):
Well, first of all, when it comes to our current
vehicles with the EAR, it might not be widely known,
but we are the best selling vehicle in our segment,
the best selling EV and we also were in the
second half of last year. Actually in the beginning of
this year, we were the best selling vehicle in the
whole segment, including ice vehicles. So the air is actually
(23:14):
doing well, although the numbers are obviously when you look
at the broader scheme of things, are not that high yet,
but that's because of the size of the segment. With gravity, obviously,
we're now reaching a different scale and we're still ramping
up the production and as you said, we have to
do quite a lot in order to get to our
target for this year, but it's going well. We're unclocking
(23:38):
some of the blockages that we had in the supply chain,
and our plant really got into the groove to create
the vehicle. So I would say the inflection point of
having really economics of scale is still a little bit out.
We're still more appealing to the higher price segment. That's
what we have. And I mean automotive. You cannot just decide, oh,
(24:02):
let's put out a new cheaper variant next week. It
takes planneers to implement, to plan, to engineer, to validate.
So that's sometimes you know, not well understood that manufacturing
and then building great cars is a long term game
and you have to build also economics of scale over time.
(24:26):
It's not something that happens from one day to the other.
Speaker 6 (24:28):
I'll hold you to it.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
Twenty thousand is realistic this year with the time left
to you.
Speaker 11 (24:34):
We're in a quiet period right now, so I cannot
really talk about it. I suggest you tune in in
our earnings call on August fifth. I will do, and
we will definitely hear about it.
Speaker 6 (24:45):
And the mid sized platform is on track for next year, and.
Speaker 11 (24:48):
The same applies to that as well. We're working very hard,
but on August fifth there will be news on them.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
The other part of Lucid's history was idea of partnerships,
manufacturing partnerships licensing technology. Has that idea change given the
political environment?
Speaker 11 (25:05):
No, actually no it hasn't. So as a matter of fact,
and I said that in the last couple of months,
and everybody honestly understandably asked me, Okay, where is it,
where is it beginning? Those things take time, and particularly
in the last couple of months, with the uncertainty of
the terrorists, I have to say, many of the people
we had conversations with to have other issues, you know,
(25:27):
they have pressing things to solve right now. In the
last quarter we also, on top of that, had you know,
the magnet shortage which actually halted production for several players.
So those discussions still happen on our EV core technology,
but also beyond that, stay tuned, there will be other
news also.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Those potential partners, though motivated by the environment, the effort
to onshore.
Speaker 6 (25:52):
Industry in this country exactly to work with America.
Speaker 11 (25:54):
Yeah, they're different, they're different things. First of all, Right now,
with let's say perceived slow down of EV adoption, especially
companies that have both ice vehicles and EV, they can
only invest the dollar once. So right now we see
(26:15):
let's say, drift back to ice vehicles and therefore, but
they still need to come out with new models and
therefore we have increased interest in Hey, can we do
things together. So and I expect this to continue.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
Actually, you talked to a moment ago about being dominant
in your segment, the lead seller in that segment. But
everyone always asks me if somebody is put off buying
a testa vehicle.
Speaker 6 (26:41):
I drive a tested vehicle or model why But there.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
Are many out there that say I don't want to
buy a testa vehicle. Have you any data that says
those buyers turn to Lucid in the pure play categories
that you operate at.
Speaker 11 (26:53):
Yeah. Absolutely, I mean, as I just said, we're now
the best selling vehicle in the United States, it's in
our segment that includes still model, our segment. I mean,
I don't compare right now the gravity because we're still
ramping up. We're in the phase of ramping up. I
guess let's talk again by the end of this year
where we stand on the gravity. But the ear Yes,
(27:16):
we see a lot of incoming. We always actually, by
the way, had a lot of interest Prompter's love yo.
So it's not really new, but it has increased. Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
This administration is fascinating in Lucid's contexts. Maybe the pro
EV policy is not there, but supporting US manufacturers is
you also have the relationship with Saudi Arabia, and the
administration in the context of GPUs for example, has been
supportive in those trade deals. What has the experience been
like leading this company under the Trump administration in net,
(27:48):
how do you think you've come out so far?
Speaker 11 (27:50):
Well, I mean, obviously things became more complicated. I mean
the teriff situation. I mean, there's no doubt it increases
our cost and it also creates a lot of additional
headache because you now have to completely rethink the supply chain.
Are you continuing certain things or are you localizing Again,
that's nothing that happens from one day to the other.
(28:14):
We are doing okay when you compare to other players
in the industry. Also from the cost increases, particularly because
we build everything right now in the United States, and
we build all of the vehicles, our key components, we're
all built here in the United States. Having said that,
we are hit by obviously raw materials or let's say
(28:35):
Tier two suppliers that we have to import and we
have to pay teriffs on that. So it's not that
we are not impacted, but we are less so than others.
So yeah, I mean it's something we have to do
to work with and for us, it's also because we
are a pure ev manufacturer. We believe in the future
of electrical propulsion. We're not wavering. We're not saying, oh,
(28:58):
let's do I don't know a rain extent or something
that is not going to happen with lewisid this is
part of our vision. You know that this is the
future and actually important to save our planet, so we
will find a way through this.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Well.
Speaker 11 (29:13):
Also have to say, for the American consumers, vehicles are
going to be more expensive under the terriff region. There's
no other way around it.
Speaker 10 (29:23):
There is.
Speaker 11 (29:24):
Yes, you can say, oh, you just need to localize. Well, yes,
but that still increases the costs because there's a reason
why the supply chain is so global, because certain things
are either not available here in the US or are
just very expensive, so you import them. And if you
change that, you still have higher cost in the United States,
which means manufacturers like US are actually any manufacturer has
(29:49):
to increase prices. There's no other way unless you want
everybody to be nonprofit organizations, which then would lead to
no innovation and no technology leadership. And I think that's
in the current climate globally. It's the last thing we want.
Speaker 6 (30:02):
The cost of doing business in America.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Mark winter Off, Lucid's interim CEO, one of the core
customers at this Panasonic De Soto, Kansas plant that is
due to hit full capacity this year.
Speaker 6 (30:14):
There's so much more to come here on Bloomberg Tech.
Stay with us. This is Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Lawmakers are gearing up to focus on several key bills
for the crypto industry this week, which has been dubbed
Crypto Week, including the Senate's Genius Act and the Clarity Act.
For more, Bloomberg's Zeke Fox joins us.
Speaker 6 (30:42):
Now.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Part of what's driving this big rally in crypto is
obviously this momentum on Capitol Hill. Walk us through the
nuts and bolts of what these bills could do for
the crypto industry in a tangible way.
Speaker 9 (30:55):
So the Genius Act, which already passed the Senate, would
effectively legalized stable coins. These are cryptocurrencies that are backed
by US dollars. They're already quite popular, but their status
in the US was kind of in a gray area.
If they're fully legalized, we might see more mainstream financial
institutions get into that business. Then we've got the Clarity Act,
(31:18):
which is about the rest of crypto. The Trump administration
has already dropped a lot of lawsuits that the Biden
administration had brought against crypto companies, sort of letting it
be trading free for all. Now this law would kind
of codify that. I think people are optimistic in the industry.
This means that crypto could kind of be legalized long
(31:40):
term in the US.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
I mean, so that speaks to the likelihood of perhaps
these actually passing. Because some of these are still up
for debate on the House floor. What kind of consensus
or even disagreements are we seeing among Democrats and Republicans.
Speaker 9 (31:53):
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of wild that these bills
have even got here. If you go look at like
the list of laws that Congress has passed this term,
this will be other than the budget. If these pass
these would be the first substantive laws that Congress has
passed this term. And I think the reason behind that's
pretty obvious. Crypto industry gave one hundred and fifty million
(32:15):
dollars last cycle to candidates. They were the number one
industry in lobbying spending, and now their priorities are moved
to the top of the list.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Well, perhaps it also speaks to the shift in narrative
and comfort with regards to crypto, not just bitcoin, not
just stable coin, but perhaps other coins out there. What
other types of crypto is poised to benefit from this?
Speaker 9 (32:42):
I mean, I think the reason people are getting more
bullish is are thinking, hey, right now, I mean, people
who want to trade crypto, can you want to go
by bitcoin, Salana fart coin like it's available to you,
But some of the more mainstream institutions are not offering
it to their customers yet. They're thinking, hey, world where
crypto is quite clearly legal, maybe people will go on
(33:04):
e trade and right next to Apple or US steel,
they'll be able to trade dogecoin or part coin, which
is actually a real and popular cryptocurrency.
Speaker 6 (33:14):
Just for the record, I.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Know there's no more joking when it comes to this industry,
is there. That's that's Bloomberg's Zeke Fox, thank you so
much for joining us core. We've it's set to expand
its data center in Denton, Texas. Its process is set
to double the projected electricity needs of the city, causing
potential stresses on the grid. For more Bloomberg's Brodiford joins us. Now, Brody,
(33:37):
what is you went through a lot of documents, You
got emails, documents, you spoke to officials. Talk to us
about what you've gleaned about the scale that this poses
on the grid, and what officials plan to do about it.
Speaker 7 (33:53):
Yeah, so we all kind of hear this story about
how AI is causing more electricity used, but it sounds
kind of vague often when it's said, what we have
here is a pretty nice case study that a large
data center is going to double the power needs of
a Texas city. I mean, that's just one data center
being put in, and this is a story playing out
across the country. We're talking here about Denton. That's a
(34:16):
pretty large town on the outskirts of Dallas. They would
be offended if you called it a suburb. One hundred
and fifty thousand people or so. And you see that
just pretty incredible ramp. And I mean the amount of
new electricity being plugged into the grid is causing a
lot of utility operators to say, hey, this is a
lot of money for us, but this also can present
(34:37):
some problems down the road.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
What's unique about this project is also that it didn't
offer local level tax breaks. What does that mean for
the local economy.
Speaker 7 (34:47):
Yeah, I thought that was really interesting. I mean I've
spoken with a lot of local officials who have inked
very large projects, and generally what you hear is, look,
we had to waive most of our property taxes, right
ninety percent in some cases, just tons and tons of
potential tax revenue gone. In this case, they didn't. I mean,
I don't know if Core we've Core Scientific really likes
a location, but what that means is that their accounting,
(35:10):
which we saw exclusively, means hundreds of millions of dollars
of net income and tax revenue, assuming you know, their
Excel spreadsheets were correct in this case.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
That's Bloomberg's Bertie Ford, thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Coming up. A new Bloomberg survey.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Reveals that AI features on dating apps aren't making hearts
race and might even be turning users away. More on
that next. This is Bloomberg Tex. Dating apps are introducing
(35:49):
new AI features in an effort to drive growth, but
there is a problem. The features aren't landing with gen z.
That's according to a new Bloomberg Intelligence survey. Let's bring
in Bloomberg's Natalie Lung for more. Natalie, you cover dating
apps match Group, Bumble as another one. They've been investing
heavily into AI. So what does this pretend for them?
(36:11):
I mean, how existential of this is an issue?
Speaker 11 (36:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 12 (36:14):
So gen Z is an increasingly important cohort for the
companies as millennios age up and gen Z are becoming
the new generation of daters became about about half of
Tender's monthly active users. And so if gen zs are
not dating as much as millennials and they're reporting more
discomfort than older generations with using AI toos like selecting
(36:36):
photos or helping with prompts, you know, companies really face
a problem there if they're investing much into it and
they're not getting as much in return.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
What have companies said in recent months about how they're
adjusting to kind of these generational behaviors? I mean, do
they rely a lot on gen Z to participate in
dating apps or is it you know, still relatively concentrading
amongst the older folks like millennials.
Speaker 12 (37:03):
So they're trying to release new products to attract gen Z.
They recently announced a double dating feature where gen Z
can you know, date with friends, making a lower pressure
experience for them, so they're trying different ways to get
their subscription ups.
Speaker 11 (37:18):
It's been in decline for.
Speaker 12 (37:19):
The past eight quarters, and as they're experimenting with new features,
they expect revenue to decline as well before returning to growth.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Is there anything that we know about how long this
kind of generational shift really will last?
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Is it a blip?
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Is it the kind of thing that might wear off
after a while or longer lasting.
Speaker 12 (37:39):
This is what the companies are hoping that, you know,
as they come up with new products gen Z, will
you know, be more interested in the apps again.
Speaker 11 (37:47):
And so we'll see.
Speaker 12 (37:48):
They did not expect growth to return into twenty twenty seven,
so they have some time to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
That's Bloomberg's Natalie Lng. Thank you so much for joining us.
And that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech.
Don't forget to it. Got our podcast. You can find
it on the terminal as well as online on Apple, Spotify,
and iHeart This is Bloomberg
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is live
from coast to coast with Caroline Hige to New York
and Ed Lovelow in San Francisco.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
This is Bloomberg Tech. I'm Jackie Devalas here in New York.
Coming up. Ed Ludlow is live in DeSoto, Kansas from
Panasonic's newest EV battery plant. We'll have the live conversations
with Panasonic North America CEO and Lucid CEO. Sour Plus
Bitcoin soares past one hundred and twenty thousand dollars as
(00:44):
Congress starts Crypto Week, and Musk says Tesla shareholders will
vote on whether to invest in his AI startup XAI.
Let's head over to DeSoto, Kansas, where Panasonic has just
unveiled its latest EV battery plant. At Ludlow is standing
by h What are you seeing?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Ed?
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Yeah, this is a four point seven million square feet
facility that at full capacity thirty gig or what hours,
enough for five hundred thousand evs for animal powered by
these little guys twenty one to seventy cells. And we're
delighted to be joined by Panasonic Corporation of North America
CEO Meghan beong on Lee regular contributor to the show.
But this was the moment you and I talked about
(01:25):
it earlier in the year. What does it mean for
Panasonic in America and American manufacturing of battery technology?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
So this is more than a ten year vision.
Speaker 5 (01:36):
We wanted to do this and we wanted to go
big in this market. So we had a commitment and
we started in Reno and Nevada, and this is our
factory that we're diversifying our ev strategy, and we're going
to be full production this year and it's really exciting.
Today's a fun and exciting day, and this is a celebration.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Full production this year. The sales are already coming off
the line. Could you just explain the roadmap for the ramp,
because no facility is straightforward, but this is the size
of two hundred American football fields.
Speaker 6 (02:07):
How are you going to get to full capacity this year?
Speaker 5 (02:10):
So we started in November twenty twenty two, two and
a half years ago, and it was all flat field
and it was a massive land and we started a
construction and we started the production and testing last week
and we're going to produce the batteries this year, and
(02:31):
you probably saw the cars that we have in Display
and Tesla, Lucid and Hexagon Truck and we're really excited
to work with different suppliers and partners and clients this year.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
We're going to discuss in detail those customers. They're really
key to this. There were media reports Friday nights that
there would be a delay in reaching full capacity, and
what the report stated was that was due to demand.
Are you able to comment on that report? And it
sounds like they were missing formed if you are going
to hit full capacity this year.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I do think it was misinformed.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
And we're very We're a Japanese company and when we
say when we commit to something, we're fully committed and
we want to make sure that we support all the customers.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
That were committed.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
We're not feeling the slow down yet, and we're very
bollish on working with all those customers.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
When you say you're not feeling the slow down, that
means that you're seeing consistent orders from those key customers
or they're still committing to orders in advance.
Speaker 6 (03:34):
What do you mean by the definition of what you
just said.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
So we have the operation in Reno and that's going
very healthy and we're seeing the commitments coming in for
this facility as well, so we're not feeling the slow
down yet but yet again, I mean, you see this operation.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
This is a.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
Long term commitment, so there may be some pushback or
moving ahead, but we're committed for a long term and
we're not shying away from those from time to time challenges.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Throughout the morning, there was a lot of discussion about
Tesla because Tesla makes the best selling EV model in
the world this specific facility. Does Tesla dominate the proportion
of output or is it more evenly split across your
different customers.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
So we're working with Tesla for sure, and we're working
with Lucid and Hexagon and other clients. So it is
to diversify our EV manufacturing in the United States.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
What do you mean by diversify move away from one
sort of core customer, No, not really.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
We're expanding, right So we're definitely working with Tesla, but
we want to work with other establish the.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
OEMs as well as startups. So it's part of our
efforts to expand our strategy and manufacturing output as well.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
What signals has Tesla given you about its future orders,
about the health.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
Of its business your guess is as good as mine.
But we have a long term relationship, longer than anyone else,
and there's still a very important strategic partner for us,
and I believe our partnership is very strong.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Throughout the morning, there was a lot of discussion of
how Kansas was the absolute best candidate. What were the
biggest factors in choosing this site. Were they financial? Were
they simply the ability to get things done? Lack of
red tape? Why were we able to move so quickly?
Speaker 5 (05:28):
So we talked about the available workforce and the infrastructure.
I mean you saw the power lines built by the
factory and as well as the.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Energy of procurement that we can do.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
But more than anything, there was something very special about Kansas.
All the officials were able to work with us, and
you probably heard that Lautana Governor Toland taking some of
his speech in not only Japanese but Osaka dilatet and
that level of insights and.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Care and support really made the difference.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
And it doesn't matter what party they are, they're very
committed to bring.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Us here but also make us feel home.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
So that kind of partnership not just numbers and infrastructure,
but emotional partnership made the difference, and we're so happy
to celebrate today.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
What I was going to say on the numbers is
there is a job creation story. So four thousand direct jobs,
I think the numbers twenty thousand indirect jobs when you
take into account supply chain construction. What have you had
to do to kind of bring the other infrastructure you've
needed to de Soto have everything you need around you?
Speaker 5 (06:43):
So what was great about planning it out? Like I said,
we started two and a half years ago, and at
that time we worked with local schools and community colleges
to create curriculums so when we start from manufacturing, they're
there already already taking the course and be available to
take a job.
Speaker 6 (07:02):
To guarantee you had the skill sets.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
Absolutely absolutely, So we created curriculum together and it's been
a really good partnership and it helps us and it
helps the community, and it's like wonderful win win.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
The headline figure was that Panasonic put four billion dollars.
Speaker 6 (07:17):
Into this to SODO facility.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
But you also the reported number is eligible for almost
seven billion dollars from the Inflation Reduction Act.
Speaker 6 (07:26):
How much of that materialized.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
We haven't started the manufacturing here, So we have not
seen the incentives YEF.
Speaker 6 (07:34):
They're setting against milestones.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yes, yes, so it comes with the production.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
So we're looking forward to it and it's definitely a
big part of our investment.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Do you anticipate that you will get access to the
full tranche of money?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
We certainly hope.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
So things have changed, I mean things have changed even
since you and I spoke in January.
Speaker 6 (07:54):
There is some.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Effort underway to reshape or or undo the Inflation Reduction Act.
It seems like the seventy five hundred dollars credit which
goes to the consumer on this vehicle will go, but
the forty five x manufacturer credits seems intact. How have
you navigated that? Is that you'll read.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
On the scenario as well.
Speaker 5 (08:14):
So we're very still a verticle fall that should remain
and I think it should remain. It's not only for us,
but it's for creating jobs and manufacturing and bringing technology
to us. So so far it's very positive and we're
hopeful that it stay is it will be a big
part of our long term strategy.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
What's the supply chain story right now for DeSoto, Kansas?
When you think about your raw material needs and everything
that goes into the cell process. Are there things that
are still difficult?
Speaker 6 (08:46):
What are they? Or has bringing this.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Facility online been smoother because of policy.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
We have been planning for the supply chain resilience, not
just for this and recent terrificuation, but from COVID.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
During COVID, we.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
Really suffered from weak supply chain. I mean, I think
all the industry did, and so did we. So we've
been planning for supply chain resilience and we are I
mean just for our benefit too, to make sure that
those supply chains stay local and within.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
The North America.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
And our goal is to complete fifty percent of our
supply chain by twenty thirty to be completely local.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Are any of the conditions currently associated with that forty
five x manufacturer credit difficult when you think about foreign
entity of concern or parts of the supply chain, which
in the context of metals like China is still a factor.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
Yes, yes, yes, So we started partnering with China and
we are for the supply chain resilience. So we are
trying to diversify and make sure that supply chain.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Is more resilience to make sure that we can procure
and process on site.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
So it's not really a new change for us necessarily,
we've been trying to do that.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
For a few years.
Speaker 6 (10:07):
Where are the bottlenecks right now? If any?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
It's really the refining process to make sure that we
can find a supplier who can make sure that quality
is there. Right the refinement, the quality matters for our
quality production. So that's where we pay most attention, to
make sure that the raw material is ready for quality
EV batteries.
Speaker 7 (10:32):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
It's good for everyone, for consumers.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
We want to make sure those AV batteries are tested
and safe.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
I know this might seem far fetched. We're just bringing
this facility online. Yes, but one of the questions I
got from you from the audience is what happens next?
Speaker 6 (10:50):
You have the Vada, you now have Kansas.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Does Panasonic see further sites for EV in the first instance?
What is your next priority?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
It's TBD.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
Today's first day of this operation, and we're really excited
to make sure that this goes smooth producing quality EV batteries.
We'll focus on their first and if it goes well,
who knows?
Speaker 7 (11:17):
Right?
Speaker 6 (11:19):
Demand is still a question.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Yes. What I find interesting is a lot of the
customer basis pure play EV. But the lesson we've learned
in the last eighteen months or so is hybrid is
still a big part of the market, maybe in a
way that surprised many. Do you have the ability to
tap into demand for hybrid from this facility or others?
Speaker 5 (11:40):
We don't know yet, but we're pleasantly surprised that EB
sales still rows by like eleven point four percent.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
So that's a good sign.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
And like I said, this is a long term play,
so we're not going to be happy and said with
the small ups and downs, we're still bullish that EV
markets should role and hybrid transition should be part of it.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
Have you done a sort of side by side analysis
of the economics of a single cell? Bring mine back out.
I have one single twenty one seventy cell here, so
this will be manufactured in Kansas, not subject to tarifs.
You have the Nevada facility, but Panasonic Energy also has
facilities all around the world. Is it just an instant
fixed that the cell on a unit basis is just
(12:27):
a more attractive economic proposition if it's built here in
Kansas for the American market versus shipping cells.
Speaker 6 (12:33):
In from EU. Overseas facilities.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
It makes a lot more economic sense to produce here, right,
bring raw materials here and produce here anyware.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
And we're cutting in for some breaking news.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Here.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
We have President Trump in the White House with the
NATO Secretary General Tick A. Lissen. That was President Trump
with the NATO Secretary General announcing that he was quote
unhappy with Russia and is threatening secondary terror of one
hundred percent on Russia if a deal with Ukraine is
not reached. But first, let's get to some breaking news
(13:07):
that crossed the wire. Mark Suckerberg, metas CEO, took to
threads to say that the company will invest hundreds of
billions of dollars in computing to build super intelligence. Shares
rows off the news and let's get right to that
with our very own Kurt Wagner. Kurt walk us through
this latest investment in how it compares to the previous
(13:29):
announcements the company has made.
Speaker 8 (13:32):
Yeah, so some of this is as you point out,
you know, hundreds of billions of dollars at the very
eye catching. I will say that is a number that
Mark Zuckerberg has thrown around before historically. He said that
this is you know this this dry for AI is
going to be incredibly expensive. He's even admitted some companies,
presumably his own, will overpay on AI in order not
to fall behind. So hundreds of billions on infrastructure. But
(13:55):
I think, Jackie, when you when you look at this,
why it makes sense is you recall over these last
couple of weeks they've been spending very aggressively to hire
AI talent for this super intelligence group. And I think this,
you know, commitment to these infrastructure side is meant to
sort of go hand in hand with that. Okay, So
we've hired the talent, we have the people in the
building that we think can build this thing, and now
(14:16):
we're putting the money behind the infrastructure to help support them.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Kurt, this announcement has fresh resonance, especially as some of
Meta's competitors are making their own moves to really bolster
their AI ambitions. Talk to us a little bit about
what XAI is hoping to do by tapping some of
Tesla's coffers.
Speaker 8 (14:34):
Yeah, so XAI is become like this central hub of
the Elon Inc. Universe. Right, we've talked about this historically
on this show before, this idea that all of Elon
Musk's various businesses sort of work together and help one another,
and I think that's just become more and more prevalent,
especially as Xai has grown. And so we learned, you
(14:56):
know that SpaceX, for example, is now investing two billion
dollars into Xai. We've seen that Elon Musk plans to
put a shareholder vote to Tesla's shareholders asking if Tesla
should invest in Xtai. We obviously know Xai on Twitter
already merged or x already merged. So this notion that
all of these different sort of businesses of Elon's are
now contributing to the AI business, I think is super notable.
(15:18):
And you can see there are some, you know, to
use the terrible cliche synergies between these companies, right the
idea that groc might be distributed through Tesla's is one
example of that. But it does feel like Elon is saying, Okay,
I have these other businesses that are doing well financially,
I'm going to take some of that cash and try
to use that as jet fuel on my AI startup, Kurt.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
It really depends on the outcome of this shareholder vote.
What is the case that Elon needs to make two
shareholders about what it stands to benefit from this move.
Speaker 9 (15:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (15:52):
Well, I think if you're an Elon, first of all,
you have a ton of loyal shareholders already, people who
want this thing to happen simply because Elon Musk wants
it to happen, right, So you have a pretty strong
base of people. But for those who are on the fence,
I think what you would sit here and say is, look,
this technology, this AI technology is going to be world changing,
transforming if it hasn't you know, already been the case
(16:14):
with self driving for example, being maybe the core Tesla example.
And so I think if you're Eline, you just say, look,
you're putting in money now into a technology that's going
to be worth ten, one hundred times more down the line.
But also you're going to get you know, all of
this data, this infrastructure that I'm building at XAI, and
it could potentially benefit Tesla as well. Again as you
(16:34):
improve self driving, as you know, take Grock for example,
put it into the cars. So if I'm him, I
paint this as very much like a rosy marriage between
the future technology and putting all of that into an automobile,
which I think they're already doing so. I think it's
easy for people to wrap their heads around, but it's
something he's going to have to really hammer home for
those who are skeptical.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Kurt, we know that Bloomberg has reported that Xai is
burning over a billion dollars a month on its AI efforts.
What do we know about how much the company is
bringing in and how that compares to its competitors.
Speaker 8 (17:07):
Yeah, we don't know much about the revenue of Xai
because at this point they're not really as far as
I know, making much money outside of you know, Grock is,
for example, available to subscribers on x there's probably some
kind of financial arrangement, at least there was before the merger,
where you know, each subscriber sort of pays for a
little bit of Grock. But I do think this is
(17:28):
going to be the key, Right you're spending a ton
of money on here. Does this payoff into a real
legitimate business moving forward?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
That's Bloomberg's Kurt Wagner, thanks for joining us. Coming up,
Lucid interim CEO Mark Winterhof joins us from the Panasonic
EV battery plan in Kansas. More Next, this is Bloomberg.
Speaker 10 (17:45):
Tech Welcome back. To Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
We're live in DeSoto, Kansas at Panasonic's brand new EV
battery plants four point seven million square feet at full capacity,
which will happen later this year. So news we broke
with Panasonics North America CEO making the Young one.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
Lee thirty gig or hours of capacity.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
That's enough cells for five hundred thousand evs perannum. One
of the key customers Lucid, and Lucid CEO Mark went
Off Interim CEO Mark winter Off is with us. Now
this is a significant moment for you as well, because
your first domestic supply of cells reflect on that.
Speaker 11 (18:36):
That is true. Yeah, So currently we're getting our battery
supplies either from Japan or from Korea, depending on the supplier,
and Panasonic is a great partner for us. We decided
two and a half years ago to make together this
investment here and to localize the production that's held production
here to county.
Speaker 6 (18:56):
It's not just volume supply. This is twenty one to seven.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
My understanding is there were some co engineering to make
this as good as it can possibly be.
Speaker 6 (19:05):
Explain how that worked.
Speaker 11 (19:07):
It's a great collaboration between our engineering departments and their
engineering department. We bring in a lot of experience on
what this cell is supposed to do in real life,
and they make it happen with chemistry and with all
of the parameters of the cell. So what was really
really great collaboration, and that we also then are able
(19:27):
now to produce us here locally obviously in the current climate,
helps us a lot.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
How did the economics of the DeSoto Candice May twenty one,
seventy stack. I know that you love charts and spreadsheets
as much as I do, but you must have done
that analysis.
Speaker 11 (19:44):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean, like I would say, we wouldn't
have done it if it wouldn't be economically feasible or beneficial.
As I mentioned before, we made that decision, not just recently,
so terrists were not on the radar screen at that time.
We did that decision two and a half years ago,
and at that time, together with the forty five X
(20:07):
incentive a text credit, the economics make sense. I still
have to say, and I hope the Panasic Sonic hears
that that you know, there's some room of improvement. But
also right now obviously with the tariffs, this is a
very good move for.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Us because the same cell that would otherwise have come
from Japan or career is subject to tariffs.
Speaker 11 (20:27):
It is.
Speaker 6 (20:28):
That's a part of the equation that is correct.
Speaker 11 (20:31):
And the other thing that we are currently working on
together with Panasonic is obviously further localizing the supply chain
for the cell because it doesn't do you a lot
of good if your manufacturer here, but you still import
the raw material which is then subject to terriffs. So
we're already doing a lot of investments in that. You
heard about our graphite one investments on the graphite and
(20:54):
other materials, So we're working with them on making that
happen as well.
Speaker 6 (20:59):
Mark, I've come Lucid for a number of years.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
This is the first time you and I have spoken,
and I'm grateful for your time. Your predecesssessor, Peter Rodinson
had a very simple argument. Lucid had the best technology
on the hardware side and software battery management system. And
even though your journey started in the premium segments, that
you would scale to volume because you would just say
(21:22):
this performance and range in this pack, we can just
scale it down make a more affordable version.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
Have we hit that inflection point yet.
Speaker 11 (21:30):
Well, I mean we're about to you know everybody knows
by now that follows loser that you know, we are
very very strongly working on our mid sized platform, right,
which is a you know, smaller platform also from a
price point perspective, more in the round, in the fifty
thousand dollars range and not where we are right now,
(21:50):
and that's when we really hit that inflection point. But
mister gravity, that we are ramping up right now, we
are already expecting to have much higher numbers we had
in the.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Past, right, I think you know, there's a lot of
work to do in the second half of the year
to reach twenty thousand. What role does the DeSoto plan't play?
Will you be able to get hold of sales from
here for vehicles sold or delivered.
Speaker 6 (22:13):
In this calendar year?
Speaker 11 (22:14):
No, not yet, Okay, So it's just something that is
something for next year. And again with our partners with Panasonic,
we are working on opportunities to further bring this in
because obviously, in the current climate, that is very important
for us to localize.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
We've focused this morning a lot on policy. You've brought
up the forty five x credit, but the consumer credit
of seven thousand, five hundred dollars likely no, more.
Speaker 6 (22:40):
What can you do in that environment with the vehicle.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Are you able to pull forward lower price point variant
are you looking to just appeal to the premium.
Speaker 6 (22:50):
Segment on an ongoing basis.
Speaker 11 (22:52):
Well, first of all, when it comes to our current
vehicles with the EAR, it might not be widely known,
but we are the best selling vehicle in our segment,
the best selling EV and we also were in the
second half of last year. Actually in the beginning of
this year, we were the best selling vehicle in the
whole segment, including ice vehicles. So the air is actually
(23:14):
doing well, although the numbers are obviously when you look
at the broader scheme of things, are not that high yet,
but that's because of the size of the segment. With gravity, obviously,
we're now reaching a different scale and we're still ramping
up the production and as you said, we have to
do quite a lot in order to get to our
target for this year, but it's going well. We're unclocking
(23:38):
some of the blockages that we had in the supply chain,
and our plant really got into the groove to create
the vehicle. So I would say the inflection point of
having really economics of scale is still a little bit out.
We're still more appealing to the higher price segment. That's
what we have. And I mean automotive. You cannot just decide, oh,
(24:02):
let's put out a new cheaper variant next week. It
takes planneers to implement, to plan, to engineer, to validate.
So that's sometimes you know, not well understood that manufacturing
and then building great cars is a long term game
and you have to build also economics of scale over time.
(24:26):
It's not something that happens from one day to the other.
Speaker 6 (24:28):
I'll hold you to it.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
Twenty thousand is realistic this year with the time left
to you.
Speaker 11 (24:34):
We're in a quiet period right now, so I cannot
really talk about it. I suggest you tune in in
our earnings call on August fifth. I will do, and
we will definitely hear about it.
Speaker 6 (24:45):
And the mid sized platform is on track for next year, and.
Speaker 11 (24:48):
The same applies to that as well. We're working very hard,
but on August fifth there will be news on them.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
The other part of Lucid's history was idea of partnerships,
manufacturing partnerships licensing technology. Has that idea change given the
political environment?
Speaker 11 (25:05):
No, actually no it hasn't. So as a matter of fact,
and I said that in the last couple of months,
and everybody honestly understandably asked me, Okay, where is it,
where is it beginning? Those things take time, and particularly
in the last couple of months, with the uncertainty of
the terrorists, I have to say, many of the people
we had conversations with to have other issues, you know,
(25:27):
they have pressing things to solve right now. In the
last quarter we also, on top of that, had you know,
the magnet shortage which actually halted production for several players.
So those discussions still happen on our EV core technology,
but also beyond that, stay tuned, there will be other
news also.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Those potential partners, though motivated by the environment, the effort
to onshore.
Speaker 6 (25:52):
Industry in this country exactly to work with America.
Speaker 11 (25:54):
Yeah, they're different, they're different things. First of all, Right now,
with let's say perceived slow down of EV adoption, especially
companies that have both ice vehicles and EV, they can
only invest the dollar once. So right now we see
(26:15):
let's say, drift back to ice vehicles and therefore, but
they still need to come out with new models and
therefore we have increased interest in Hey, can we do
things together. So and I expect this to continue.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
Actually, you talked to a moment ago about being dominant
in your segment, the lead seller in that segment. But
everyone always asks me if somebody is put off buying
a testa vehicle.
Speaker 6 (26:41):
I drive a tested vehicle or model why But there.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
Are many out there that say I don't want to
buy a testa vehicle. Have you any data that says
those buyers turn to Lucid in the pure play categories
that you operate at.
Speaker 11 (26:53):
Yeah. Absolutely, I mean, as I just said, we're now
the best selling vehicle in the United States, it's in
our segment that includes still model, our segment. I mean,
I don't compare right now the gravity because we're still
ramping up. We're in the phase of ramping up. I
guess let's talk again by the end of this year
where we stand on the gravity. But the ear Yes,
(27:16):
we see a lot of incoming. We always actually, by
the way, had a lot of interest Prompter's love yo.
So it's not really new, but it has increased. Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
This administration is fascinating in Lucid's contexts. Maybe the pro
EV policy is not there, but supporting US manufacturers is
you also have the relationship with Saudi Arabia, and the
administration in the context of GPUs for example, has been
supportive in those trade deals. What has the experience been
like leading this company under the Trump administration in net,
(27:48):
how do you think you've come out so far?
Speaker 11 (27:50):
Well, I mean, obviously things became more complicated. I mean
the teriff situation. I mean, there's no doubt it increases
our cost and it also creates a lot of additional
headache because you now have to completely rethink the supply chain.
Are you continuing certain things or are you localizing Again,
that's nothing that happens from one day to the other.
(28:14):
We are doing okay when you compare to other players
in the industry. Also from the cost increases, particularly because
we build everything right now in the United States, and
we build all of the vehicles, our key components, we're
all built here in the United States. Having said that,
we are hit by obviously raw materials or let's say
(28:35):
Tier two suppliers that we have to import and we
have to pay teriffs on that. So it's not that
we are not impacted, but we are less so than others.
So yeah, I mean it's something we have to do
to work with and for us, it's also because we
are a pure ev manufacturer. We believe in the future
of electrical propulsion. We're not wavering. We're not saying, oh,
(28:58):
let's do I don't know a rain extent or something
that is not going to happen with lewisid this is
part of our vision. You know that this is the
future and actually important to save our planet, so we
will find a way through this.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Well.
Speaker 11 (29:13):
Also have to say, for the American consumers, vehicles are
going to be more expensive under the terriff region. There's
no other way around it.
Speaker 10 (29:23):
There is.
Speaker 11 (29:24):
Yes, you can say, oh, you just need to localize. Well, yes,
but that still increases the costs because there's a reason
why the supply chain is so global, because certain things
are either not available here in the US or are
just very expensive, so you import them. And if you
change that, you still have higher cost in the United States,
which means manufacturers like US are actually any manufacturer has
(29:49):
to increase prices. There's no other way unless you want
everybody to be nonprofit organizations, which then would lead to
no innovation and no technology leadership. And I think that's
in the current climate globally. It's the last thing we want.
Speaker 6 (30:02):
The cost of doing business in America.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Mark winter Off, Lucid's interim CEO, one of the core
customers at this Panasonic De Soto, Kansas plant that is
due to hit full capacity this year.
Speaker 6 (30:14):
There's so much more to come here on Bloomberg Tech.
Stay with us. This is Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Lawmakers are gearing up to focus on several key bills
for the crypto industry this week, which has been dubbed
Crypto Week, including the Senate's Genius Act and the Clarity Act.
For more, Bloomberg's Zeke Fox joins us.
Speaker 6 (30:42):
Now.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Part of what's driving this big rally in crypto is
obviously this momentum on Capitol Hill. Walk us through the
nuts and bolts of what these bills could do for
the crypto industry in a tangible way.
Speaker 9 (30:55):
So the Genius Act, which already passed the Senate, would
effectively legalized stable coins. These are cryptocurrencies that are backed
by US dollars. They're already quite popular, but their status
in the US was kind of in a gray area.
If they're fully legalized, we might see more mainstream financial
institutions get into that business. Then we've got the Clarity Act,
(31:18):
which is about the rest of crypto. The Trump administration
has already dropped a lot of lawsuits that the Biden
administration had brought against crypto companies, sort of letting it
be trading free for all. Now this law would kind
of codify that. I think people are optimistic in the industry.
This means that crypto could kind of be legalized long
(31:40):
term in the US.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
I mean, so that speaks to the likelihood of perhaps
these actually passing. Because some of these are still up
for debate on the House floor. What kind of consensus
or even disagreements are we seeing among Democrats and Republicans.
Speaker 9 (31:53):
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of wild that these bills
have even got here. If you go look at like
the list of laws that Congress has passed this term,
this will be other than the budget. If these pass
these would be the first substantive laws that Congress has
passed this term. And I think the reason behind that's
pretty obvious. Crypto industry gave one hundred and fifty million
(32:15):
dollars last cycle to candidates. They were the number one
industry in lobbying spending, and now their priorities are moved
to the top of the list.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Well, perhaps it also speaks to the shift in narrative
and comfort with regards to crypto, not just bitcoin, not
just stable coin, but perhaps other coins out there. What
other types of crypto is poised to benefit from this?
Speaker 9 (32:42):
I mean, I think the reason people are getting more
bullish is are thinking, hey, right now, I mean, people
who want to trade crypto, can you want to go
by bitcoin, Salana fart coin like it's available to you,
But some of the more mainstream institutions are not offering
it to their customers yet. They're thinking, hey, world where
crypto is quite clearly legal, maybe people will go on
(33:04):
e trade and right next to Apple or US steel,
they'll be able to trade dogecoin or part coin, which
is actually a real and popular cryptocurrency.
Speaker 6 (33:14):
Just for the record, I.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Know there's no more joking when it comes to this industry,
is there. That's that's Bloomberg's Zeke Fox, thank you so
much for joining us core. We've it's set to expand
its data center in Denton, Texas. Its process is set
to double the projected electricity needs of the city, causing
potential stresses on the grid. For more Bloomberg's Brodiford joins us. Now, Brody,
(33:37):
what is you went through a lot of documents, You
got emails, documents, you spoke to officials. Talk to us
about what you've gleaned about the scale that this poses
on the grid, and what officials plan to do about it.
Speaker 7 (33:53):
Yeah, so we all kind of hear this story about
how AI is causing more electricity used, but it sounds
kind of vague often when it's said, what we have
here is a pretty nice case study that a large
data center is going to double the power needs of
a Texas city. I mean, that's just one data center
being put in, and this is a story playing out
across the country. We're talking here about Denton. That's a
(34:16):
pretty large town on the outskirts of Dallas. They would
be offended if you called it a suburb. One hundred
and fifty thousand people or so. And you see that
just pretty incredible ramp. And I mean the amount of
new electricity being plugged into the grid is causing a
lot of utility operators to say, hey, this is a
lot of money for us, but this also can present
(34:37):
some problems down the road.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
What's unique about this project is also that it didn't
offer local level tax breaks. What does that mean for
the local economy.
Speaker 7 (34:47):
Yeah, I thought that was really interesting. I mean I've
spoken with a lot of local officials who have inked
very large projects, and generally what you hear is, look,
we had to waive most of our property taxes, right
ninety percent in some cases, just tons and tons of
potential tax revenue gone. In this case, they didn't. I mean,
I don't know if Core we've Core Scientific really likes
a location, but what that means is that their accounting,
(35:10):
which we saw exclusively, means hundreds of millions of dollars
of net income and tax revenue, assuming you know, their
Excel spreadsheets were correct in this case.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
That's Bloomberg's Bertie Ford, thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Coming up. A new Bloomberg survey.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Reveals that AI features on dating apps aren't making hearts
race and might even be turning users away. More on
that next. This is Bloomberg Tex. Dating apps are introducing
(35:49):
new AI features in an effort to drive growth, but
there is a problem. The features aren't landing with gen z.
That's according to a new Bloomberg Intelligence survey. Let's bring
in Bloomberg's Natalie Lung for more. Natalie, you cover dating
apps match Group, Bumble as another one. They've been investing
heavily into AI. So what does this pretend for them?
(36:11):
I mean, how existential of this is an issue?
Speaker 11 (36:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 12 (36:14):
So gen Z is an increasingly important cohort for the
companies as millennios age up and gen Z are becoming
the new generation of daters became about about half of
Tender's monthly active users. And so if gen zs are
not dating as much as millennials and they're reporting more
discomfort than older generations with using AI toos like selecting
(36:36):
photos or helping with prompts, you know, companies really face
a problem there if they're investing much into it and
they're not getting as much in return.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
What have companies said in recent months about how they're
adjusting to kind of these generational behaviors? I mean, do
they rely a lot on gen Z to participate in
dating apps or is it you know, still relatively concentrading
amongst the older folks like millennials.
Speaker 12 (37:03):
So they're trying to release new products to attract gen Z.
They recently announced a double dating feature where gen Z
can you know, date with friends, making a lower pressure
experience for them, so they're trying different ways to get
their subscription ups.
Speaker 11 (37:18):
It's been in decline for.
Speaker 12 (37:19):
The past eight quarters, and as they're experimenting with new features,
they expect revenue to decline as well before returning to growth.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Is there anything that we know about how long this
kind of generational shift really will last?
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Is it a blip?
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Is it the kind of thing that might wear off
after a while or longer lasting.
Speaker 12 (37:39):
This is what the companies are hoping that, you know,
as they come up with new products gen Z, will
you know, be more interested in the apps again.
Speaker 11 (37:47):
And so we'll see.
Speaker 12 (37:48):
They did not expect growth to return into twenty twenty seven,
so they have some time to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
That's Bloomberg's Natalie Lng. Thank you so much for joining us.
And that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech.
Don't forget to it. Got our podcast. You can find
it on the terminal as well as online on Apple, Spotify,
and iHeart This is Bloomberg
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.