September 26, 2025 • 43 mins
Bloomberg’s Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow break down plans for investors to buy TikTok's US operations at a potential valuation of $14 billion. Plus, they discuss the possibility of an AI bubble, after hedge fund manager David Einhorn warned that spending on AI infrastructure may destroy vast amounts of capital. And Qualcomm's CEO shares his views on the changing chip landscape in the wake of Nvidia's Intel deal.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive
from coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New York
and Eva Low in sentences go.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
This is Bloomberg Tech coming up.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
President Trump advances plans for American investors to buy TikTok's
US operations, with a potential value of fourteen billion dollars.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
As we discussed the later day I bubble warning, hedge
fund manager David Einhorn cautions that huge spending on AI
infrastructure may destroy vast amounts of capital.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
And our conversation with Qualcom CEO and the changing chip
landscape in the wake of Nvidia's Intel deal, and.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
A lot more, a lot more, including the market look
over the last five days, we have seen pressure on
tech stocks more broadly. You're putting in the macro perspective
of maybe we lean away from just the Federal Reserve
being the key function tactic here, and indeed we start
to question valuations more broadly. We're off more than a
percentage point on the NASDAK not significant moves, the biggest
drop in the five day basis that we've seen since
(01:11):
the beginning of August, but still notable in terms of sentiment.
Where sentiment has really changed is Crypto's strategy were formerly
known as MicroStrategy, the worst performer on the week, and
I'm looking at Bitcoin off by five point six percent
key day for options expiring today, ED, what are you
looking at?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Okay, this is a story that's moving tech and moving markets.
Intel and Global Foundaries are both up significantly. The Wall
Street journals reporting that the Trump administration is looking at
a policy where it will require US chip makers on
a one for one basis to have the equivalent number
of chips manufactured in the US as they do their
customers import from overseas. We'll try and match that, but
(01:49):
it's moving markets. Then there's Oracle, so Oracle on a
five day basis on track for its biggest weekly drop
since April. We know more about the structure of a
deal for US TikTok, the breaking news in the last
hour Bloomberg reporting citing sources that even in the event
that this deal is done and completed, China and byte
(02:12):
Dance will still take more than half the profits from
US operations of TikTok. Let's get all the details with
Bloombo's Alex Levine, who covers social media and has been
all over this story. Let's start with what happened out
in the White House last night. The President, the Treasury
Secretary all explaining to us, along with the Vice President
Alex the structure of this deal, what is new and
(02:33):
what do we know?
Speaker 5 (02:35):
Well, I think what we know about the deal so
far is that Oracle is set to play a huge
role in helping the new US TikTok entity secure user data,
and also the algorithm that is going to be leased
from byte Dance for the United States to use and
retrain using all US user data. What we saw from
the White House yesterday at the Executive Order signing, there
(02:55):
was actually not that much new in terms of what
we know as far as China where China stands on this.
There are a lot of questions from reporters about what
sorts of nod or what sorts of approval the Chinese
president has given to Trump, and it seems that Trump
has been sending some mixed messaging on exactly where China stands.
But I do think that one thing that is becoming
(03:15):
clear is that as we begin to learn more about
the structure of the deal and what by Dance will
get from it. There are more and more questions, and
I think some more scrutiny and even criticism from members
of Trump's own party over what the eventual what the
eventual outcome will be.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
I think exactly that the Chinese embassy has made the
latest statements say the US side needs to provide an
open fare and non discriminatory environment for Chinese investors.
Speaker 6 (03:41):
So no, yes, go for it.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
You can take this part of TikTok and start reworking
in the underlying algorithm. For me, the question is is
Oracle the right person to be overseeing the algorithm changes?
And more broadly, how on earth are they going to
separate the US version? And more broadly, what about the
latest voyce is reporting that we're seeing that maybe byte docetells.
Speaker 6 (04:04):
End up still controlling operations with that in any way
satisfied national security.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
Issues hit well, I think it depends how you ask
on this first question that you had, which is is
Oracle the right partner for this? If you asked the
Trump administration, you asked the White House. Absolutely, they said
yesterday that Oracle has been partnering with TikTok for several
years already on trying to cordon off US user data
from bye Edance's global operations in China. But I think
one thing that's very top of mind for me is
(04:30):
that TikTok and Oracle have been working together on this
for years, and it has been an imperfect solution. This
was proposed as a solution to the Biden administration back
in twenty twenty two, and after years of negotiations with
a framework that looked almost identical to what we're now
talking about with TikTok and Oracle today, the Biden administration
was not comfortable that this would adequately solve national security concerns.
(04:51):
So you're starting to hear from lawmakers and others in
across Washington that this might just be a new version
of that, and if so, that that's just not going.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
To cut it, very similar to Project Texas from your
own reporting, Alex Lavigne, thanks for breaking that down. Still
so many questions to answer, but let's just talk about
the advertising side of all of this. I'm beginning Rachel
Tipograph found our CEO of analytics platform, Mickmac with all
these questions remaining about how on Earth the algorithm continues
(05:23):
and whether we all remain one hundred and seventy million
US users.
Speaker 6 (05:27):
Using it as much.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
What are advertising decisions being made right now?
Speaker 7 (05:32):
Advertisers in a weight and C mode. Right now, it
is still commonplace for TikTok, and we're actually seeing all
time high traffic in September from first twenty percent of
total traffic from advertisers was allocated to TikTok. If we
date back to Q one, it was ten percent. So
(05:52):
people still see TikTok as a place to build brand
and drive performance all at once. That being said, major
advertisers have contingency plants. The moment that TikTok America is created,
I don't think we're going to see traffic at twenty percent.
These major advertisers are going to wait to see if
(06:12):
the user base is still there, if the engagement is
still there, and if the ad performance results are still there.
If those things are to be true, then absolutely you'll
see dollars move into TikTok America. But in the meantime,
you're going to probably see a short term boom to
environments like meta and alphabet where there are other places
(06:34):
to invest your short form video ad dollars.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
How is this going to impact efficiencies for brands? Because
at the moment you can go to one platform and
have global reach.
Speaker 6 (06:45):
That's going to be really important.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
For some of these global companies if they have to
silo off a US targeted ad versus global.
Speaker 7 (06:54):
Absolutely, there's a domino effect here. A lot of these
major advertisers, they have these global joint business plans in
place where they're guaranteeing ad dollars across multiple geographies. Advertisers
have major question marks. Are those agreements going to be
thrown out the window? And then from the actual operating standpoint,
there has been a single platform to do buying, measurement
(07:17):
and optimizations. It is unclear now if advertisers are going
to have to log into multiple platforms and then Carolyn
Prer point, what are the results going to be? Which
is why major advertisers they have choices they can go
invest dollars in other places. It's the sm B businesses
that have been heavily reliant on an environment like TikTok
(07:38):
or Amazon where they might go all in, but if
they don't see those results, I promise you you're going
to see dollars move out of that environment back into
places like Meta and Google.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Rachel.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
What we do know from the reporting is that there
will be a retraining or even from the ground up
rebuild of the algorithm. How worried are people in your
community and your network that that basically removes what makes
(08:11):
TikTok good for them, that the algorithm is not as
effective as it currently is when Oracle has been able
to review it and change it.
Speaker 7 (08:20):
Yeah, it's less about the algorithm, and it's more about
will user engagement still hold? And will the effectiveness of
the ads, meaning the cost per impression or the cost
per click or the cost per sale.
Speaker 8 (08:35):
Will those hold.
Speaker 7 (08:36):
If those things don't hold, you will see dollars move out.
So the algorithm is a mechanism to make those things true.
But what advertisers are really concerned about is results.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
What Bloomberg has reported is that byte Dance is still
going to get fifty percent of the profits from a
US TikTok, and that MGX, a state backed investment vehicle
of UAE, is one of the anchor investors. If you're
a content creator on TikTok, or you're an advertiser on TikTok,
do you care about either of those considerations.
Speaker 7 (09:13):
If you're an advertiser in TikTok and you're a global brand.
I'm talking Fortune one thousand brands. You care about two things.
You care about performance, but then you also care about
brand safety. And so if they don't feel that their
concerns are being addressed by this new ownership structure around
brand safety, then yes they will care. If they believe
(09:34):
it's being addressed, then it's irrelevant to that creators. Creators
care more about the culture and the community. Will the
community still stay in TikTok? Will the vibe still be
the same? They don't really care about the ownership structure
as long as the community engagement is there.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Let's talk about a name that you said that maybe
you will be benefiting amid all of this, and is
meta and the move to Instagram in this moment by
advertising dollars. But what's happening in Europe at the moment
is interesting with meta as well and the UK and
being forced to basically add a subscription offer rather than
offering just advertising. How advertisers looking at that, how much
(10:14):
do they anticipate people will go for an ad free
version of Instagram.
Speaker 7 (10:20):
I love what's happening right now because we can look
at mcmac's data globally, we do operate globally, and it's
really interesting. The laws that are taking place in the
EU and UK when it comes to advertising is way
more stricter than the US, and as a result, platforms
like Meta have struggled in recent years in those environments.
(10:43):
In twenty twenty three, Meta had to introduce the same
ad free tier in the EU, and there's been no
public data whether users have adopted that or not. The
only thing that we've seen happen is that the price
per tier come down, which is a signal that maybe
adoption was initially there. Fast forward, the UK government is
(11:05):
adopting very similar rules as the EU, where they're putting
very strict guardrails in place and how platforms can target
users and essentially you have to opt in one hundred
percent and if you don't opt in one hundred percent,
then you have to pay for an ad free tier.
What's interesting is that right now in the UK, seventy
(11:27):
five percent of ad investment is happening in Meta. Meanwhile
in the EU it's closer to thirty six percent, which
is another signal that if this happens in the UK,
you're going to start to see ad diversification outside of
Meta into other platforms. So it's actually the reverse of
(11:49):
what's happening in the US.
Speaker 8 (11:50):
In the US.
Speaker 7 (11:52):
Opportunity for Meta to grab market share. In the UK,
they might actually lose market share right.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Now, Nick mag Ceo, Rachel Tippograph back on Bloomberg Tech,
Back and forth.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Great to have you on the show. A story we're tracking.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Jaomi unveiled a smartphone designed to take on the just
released iPhone seventeen, underscoring the Chinese company's broader ambitions to
take on US rivals from Apple to Tesla. The Jaomi seventeen,
which will be offered in Pro and Promax models just
like Apple's Marque series, starts at six hundred and thirty
dollars for the most basic model and rising to about
(12:28):
eight hundred and forty dollars at the top end, more
than one hundred dollars cheaper than the base iPhone seventeen.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Carol, Let's go back to AI now, because coming up
computing powerhousers that are feeding the AI boom, they're seeing
explosive growth of their own.
Speaker 6 (12:43):
How will this compute market evolve? One of that next
This is a Boomberg Tech.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
The AI revolution is fueling explosive growth for companies selling
computer power. Call Weave, despite forecasting losses this year, is
valued at over fifty billion dollars, while Oracle's added two
hundred and fifty billion so its market cap. That surge
is subject of this weekend's essay by Bloomberg Ideas and
Culture senior writer Felix Salmon, who joins US now. I
(13:16):
spoke to the core Weave CEO last night and I
basically put to him that all of the people in
this ecosystem are writing checks they can't cash. The demand
is there, but their ability to pay for it. The
infrastructure needs to be built, maybe it's not. And you
make a really smart case on just how wide some
of the losses are with all the spending as as
(13:38):
much as they have momentum in what they're doing.
Speaker 9 (13:40):
And what that in financial terms is called is counterparty risk.
That if you are selling, if you're building data centers,
and you're expecting trillions of dollars of demand, then what
you're worried about is that the people who are contracting
to pay, like you know, Open the Eye has said
that it's going to pay Ora called three hundred billion dollar,
that they just won't have that money because they're losing money,
(14:04):
and where are they going to be able to find it?
You know, in video can't just throw billions of dollars
at them forever. And so the big question then comes,
how are they going to be able to hedge that
counterparty risk? And the answer to that question is what
if compute is actually traded as a commodity on markets
on exchanges. That solves a huge number of problems.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
And people are already walking that line and already building
that offering. It seems like Felix push us forward as
to how we could get what you call really these
combinatorial auctions.
Speaker 9 (14:39):
Combinator yeah, is something called the Milgram assignment auction. And
all markets are auctions, right. If you think about the
stock market, people are bidding every microsecond for how much
they're willing to bid and offer on various stocks. And
that's a very simple auction. It's just like there's one
object and you can have a single price of that object.
(14:59):
It's the share of stock. Other auctions, other commodities have
more complicated things, like in the oil market, you have
to invent these standards like ren crude or West Texas
Intermedia that people can sort of agree on. When you're
talking about something as complicated as compute, where there are
hundreds of different variables that people care about, what chips
you have, how much uptime there is, what time of
(15:22):
day you're using, all of this kind of stuff. Then
you need a very sophisticated auction that is powered itself
by AI. But we have these companies one Kronos and
Autonomics that are actually building that right now, and really
it's super necessary. Without it, we aren't going to be
able to see the level of investment that people are
sure is coming.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Food for thought, and that's exactly what job description is.
Felix Salmon is a great really go dive into it
this weekend. But for more on AI and the questioning
of valuations around AI as well, let's talk to Stephanie Aliaga.
Speaker 6 (15:55):
She's global market strategist at JP Morgan. No, we just
have the latest David Einhorn coming out saying I'm.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Worried about the shaft scale of AI infrastructure investment to
the moment that billions is going to be lost in
terms of capital.
Speaker 6 (16:09):
What are you thinking of these warnings around a bubble.
Speaker 10 (16:11):
Yeah, it's clear we're seeing explosive demand demand growth that
we've really never seen before. That doesn't mean it's not real,
but it does mean that we should continue to really
look at these valuations and perform these sanity checks.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
And what gives me.
Speaker 10 (16:26):
Some confidence when I'm performing my sanity check is that
this infrastructure wave, as significant as it is, is powered
by real demand growth that is already showing up in
the numbers. It's funded by real cash flows, and even
after all of this enormous spending the four major hyperscalers,
they're still free cash flow positive, and so there's a
lot of demand, and still the supply constraint on infrastructure
(16:50):
is there. So there's no house of cards underneath this
AI infrastructure wave, I'd say. But still I think the
AI theme is it's a lot term. One deep seek
was one upset that we had earlier this year. There
will surely be others, and right now we're in this
kind of period of digestion. But I think we're just
waiting for that next piece of like bullish commentary and data,
(17:11):
and then we're going to appreciate the fundamentals once more.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Stephanie, every phone call I get at the moment about
specific infrastructure deal there's an element of debt involved. How
closely are you tracking that and are you worried about it?
Speaker 10 (17:27):
So the infrastructure spending boom is beyond just those four
major hyperscalers right that fifth in line, as you know,
came out with a bond deal this week.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
So we are.
Speaker 10 (17:36):
Seeing that AI is going to cost a lot of money,
and you know, the debt markets are coming in to
help fund some of those gaps and spending. I'm not
incredibly worried about that just yet. I mean, the bargain
that bond investors are making is that there will ultimately
be enough revenue generated from this to pay back the bonds.
That's maybe a more conservative bet than what equity markets
(17:57):
are making by putting more money into these lead megacaps
that already have sky high valuations. But more broadly, I
think it just shows that, you know, this infrastructure wave
has a lot of urgency behind it, and it's beginning
to touch many other corners of the market. The corporate
bond market is one of them, but we're also seeing
(18:18):
it in utilities and infrastructure and public and private and
so forth.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
I mean, a forty year bond with what was it
ended up a yield of just about one point sixty
five percentage points.
Speaker 6 (18:28):
So for treasuries feels.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Like, I mean, relatively little to have to pay for
the price of that longer term debt, but there is belief.
Speaker 6 (18:34):
I want to go back to the comment you made,
this isn't a house of cards. How do you feel
though about some of.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
The circularity arguments that are going on that basically it's
the same people are buying, basically giving money in equity
for promise of buying their GPUs later.
Speaker 10 (18:46):
Absolutely, markets have been rewarding large capital spending commitments, and
we should not be rewarding redundant capital spending commitments. And
I think that is one of the I guess the
sanity checks that we've all performed this week is okay.
It seems like capital slashing from one balance sheet to
another balance sheet. But a lot of the comparisons that
are being made to the dot com bubble of companies
selling bannerats to one another trying to juice up their valuations.
(19:08):
What's different this time around is the spending is grounded
in real infrastructure, real chip spending, real data centers, and
so that gives me a bit more confidence on that.
But we know absolutely should not be rewarding companies for
redundant capital spending commitments.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Stephanie, really quick, can the global energy sector.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Meet the demand?
Speaker 10 (19:29):
That's the million dollar question, right, billion trillion dollar question.
I guess The reality is it's going to take all
hands on deck. And while a lot of data center
power commitments have been made in fact this year enough
to power New York, Chicago and LA for a year.
That's the degree of power commitments that have been made.
(19:49):
A lot of that's in the pipeline. The reality is
we are confronting in very aged infrastructure grid. It's going
to take time until the twenty thirties at minimum, until
nuclear power, even new natural gas power is going to
be there. In the meantime, there's hope that we can
get a lot more efficient and that the demand is
it's tracking up, but it's also tracking up gradually, right,
(20:12):
so we're not too worried about that real I think
bottleneck moment happening, it seems a few years into the future.
Until then maybe we see more efficiency gains or the
costs of compute have come down ninety eight percent already.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Stephaniely Aliaga, global market strategist at JP Morgan Asset Management,
thank you very much. Now coming up, Bloomberg Tech Asias
sat down with Holton Nu from bay Too Apollo, China's
biggest robotaxi operator at conversations.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
The next this is Blenberg.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Tech the race that bring driverist taxis to the world.
It is on and while the likes of Weimo have
focused on establishing domestic strongholds, Chinese companies are aggressively expanding internationally.
Here is by do Apollos, Global manager of overseas Business.
(21:00):
You speaking with Blumberg Tech Asia, Aldreders.
Speaker 11 (21:03):
I think both Waymo and Bido Apollo, we are the
only two companies who provide over one thousand cars in
all the cities.
Speaker 12 (21:13):
What does your expansion plan and your and your scale
up look like.
Speaker 11 (21:18):
We have already signed several legally binding contract with different
partners globally. Any single one of them is regarding one
thousands level of robotaxis deployment. I believe once we remove
the safety driver from the car, you know, the numbers
of deployment can can raise gigantically right, since what we
(21:40):
are aiming for is uh is the real AUTI of
striving is without safety driver.
Speaker 12 (21:46):
With working with us companies Uber and Lyft. Do you
see any risk of geopolitics coming into the equation as well?
Speaker 11 (21:54):
From bidose perspective, we think both China and the US
have enough ability and wisdom to overcome such kind of
geopolitical problems or difficulties. So we believe since we are
also commniests working for for new technology, also for profit
(22:17):
for profile, generating profits for for both companies, so I
think we're yeah, everything will be good in the end.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
That was by do Apollos Holton New along with our
own Annabel Drulers. Check out the full episode of Bloomberg
Tech Asia online or on the Bloomberg terminal. A lot
of stories coming out of the region now coming up.
More on TikTok as President Trump advances plans for US
investors to buy the social media platform in the US.
About that story. Next, This is Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back
(23:01):
to Bloomberg Tech Cara. I'm sounding the tech ipo watch
Clackson the alarm, and the name I'm looking at is Klana.
Down almost six percent in the session. But the reason
that's notable is the shares trading at thirty nine dollars
nine cents a share, meaning they are down below the
forty dollars IPO price pretty quickly as well. Like think
(23:22):
of all the other IBOs you and I've covered in
recent weeks and months, and some of them had a
lot of long term momentum. This feels like a pretty
quick drop back, and there is a broader sell off
in fintech right now. But it's one to watch this Friday.
Sorry to bring the mood down, but it's a it's
a notable moment.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Oracle. Sorry, I've just got carried away. I'm having a
good time.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Oracle over the course of five days is down almost
eight percent, also bearing in mind broader momentum that it's
had in recent weeks, right, But to kind of sell
the news week where we got a lot more detail
on its participation in US TikTok and how it's going
to operationally and to anchor, investor and board seat member
run things. But that's five day drop, biggest in April.
(24:06):
Please take it away.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
I will, because yes, Oracles run far higher in recent months,
and no ononder there's been a profit taking. But we
aren't going to drill into Oracle into potential TikTok investment
and the role that it plays with Bluemost brody Ford
who covers the company. And there is a great opinion
piece out of our colleague Davely who really puts out
really the question of what expertise does Oracle, a cloud
(24:28):
company have when it comes to social media algorithms, brody.
Speaker 13 (24:33):
Not a whole lot. I think the UL maybe they
a would tell you as much as well. I think
it's very interesting how much rhetorical value the administration has
placed on Oracle's involvement. They are the kind of technological
underpinning of a lot of the operations, but they're the
cloud vendor, right, I mean, they are not an algorithm
(24:54):
designing company. They're not a business operations social media. They're
not a consumer company period, right. And so as Oracle
takes a very large role on the stage of how
this TikTok deal is rolled out, my anticipation is that
their role doesn't change a whole lot from what it
is today, which is a cloud infrastructure vendor.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Brady, you and I have spent a lot of the
last thirty six hours on the phone trying to work
this out, so let's swap notes. My understanding is that
the Trump administration went to MGX which is a basically
state backed investment firm in the UAE, and invited them
to participate. You also have some details on these kind
(25:38):
of anchor investors and what role they'll take.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Just give us your notes please, right.
Speaker 13 (25:43):
So, these three anchor investors will likely get about a
fifteen percent share each and a board seat. The exact
numbers may shift around with the idea is that these
are the kind of three anchor non Chinese investors, kind
of each coming from somewhat different backgrounds Oracle. We've discussed
MGX being an Amorati investment company than Silver Like being
(26:06):
a US tech focused investment company, and so I think
the idea is showing that, hey, there's a breadth of
folks behind this initiative. Though of course the reporting is
very live in terms of exactly what these three companies
are going to be buying.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
The most brady Ford busy week. Forew a lot more
reportings come, Thank you very much. Let's bring in Teresa Payton.
She's the CEO of Foota List Solutions and the former
White House Chief Information Officer under George W. Bush administration.
If we may, I want to go to the UAE
piece of this first, because you know, the emphasis from
the administration was making US TikTok American. The UAE is
(26:46):
an ally of the United States in defense, for example.
You know there is weapons and other agreements there. But
in the context of something that is digital, what do
you make of MGX participating as an anger for investor
and potential board seat holder of a US TikTok.
Speaker 8 (27:05):
Well, I think it's very interesting.
Speaker 14 (27:06):
Obviously they have deep enough pockets to be a part
of this, which is kind of part of the deal negotiation.
But I to have some open questions because there's some
open questions about how they feel about social media for
their own citizens. And so now we're talking about we're
going to have some type of a twin algorithm, because
(27:27):
by Dance is still going to have the algorithm, but
we're going to have it here in the United States
and we're going to be retraining.
Speaker 8 (27:32):
It on US data.
Speaker 14 (27:33):
And so I've got a lot of questions around that
board seat and what kind of voting rights, what kind
of direction, what kind of influence they may have over
this sort of digital twin of an algorithm we're going
to have the US and how that retraining's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Okay, from a pure technology standpoint, how do you think
this is going to work read the algorithm or.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Is it going to work at all?
Speaker 14 (28:00):
Well, hopefully they've got some really great engineers working on this,
so whenever you kind of go into this mode of
there's going to be a master copy and then we're
going to have our own local, regional copy, but it's
going to be essentially the same, except for it's not
we're going to be training it on us data. I
end up having a lot of questions like what's the
quality assurance for this?
Speaker 8 (28:21):
Will it still feel and look the same?
Speaker 14 (28:23):
I mean, TikTok may lose it's hip and cool factor
once we take sort of the global piece out of
it and start.
Speaker 8 (28:32):
To run at locally.
Speaker 14 (28:33):
So it'll be very interesting to see what the knowledge
transfer will be. I know, as part of Project Dallas,
TikTok Usa has been doing a lot of work to
be in compliance with the Foreign Control of you know,
kind of regulations around Siphius, and so it could be
they already have people very well trained up to take
(28:53):
the reins of TikTok USA's algorithm. But if they don't,
I'm a little worried about how it's going to be
too owned and maybe a little bumpy once we kind
of do this split and have this algorithm twin of
sort of the master copy, but it has to be retrained.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
And let's face it, if they're Byte Dance TikTok employees
who've been working on Project Texas, who says that byte
Dancers going to want them to move to us TikTok?
Speaker 6 (29:19):
So we have to question what.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Engineering talent follows through theresa. I'm also interested in. There's
been some Reuters reporting and Bloomberg's yet to been confirming
on it.
Speaker 6 (29:28):
But the idea that actually byte.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Dance as a whole has a lot more control than
perhaps have been previously thought. Yes, they perhaps give over
the algorithm in a sunch way and it becomes updated
and monitored by the likes of Oracle, but they then
hold a separate division that will continue to be wholly owned,
and they'll control the revenue generating business operations such as
e commerce and advertising.
Speaker 6 (29:51):
How does that technically work.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
And how does that make us understand it from a
national security perspective?
Speaker 14 (29:57):
Yeah, this is very interesting to me. So I think
a couple of things. One, we know the data has
been physically separated, but the algorithm itself. The reason why
an algorithm like TikTok's was so popular and beat out
most US based social media companies, at least as it
relates to gen Z, gen A and even you know,
(30:19):
candidly other generations. A lot of people have adopted TikTok,
and the reason why it's so good is that algorithm
is constantly learning. How does it learn? It has to
train itself on data and where you come from, where.
Speaker 8 (30:33):
You go to and all of those things.
Speaker 14 (30:35):
I don't know how the algorithm stays hip and cool
and edgy if it's completely separated from ByteDance, So how
does it learn if it becomes a black box of learning?
So lots of questions still around how that engineering is
going to work and how are they going to set
this up. So, for example, there is a term called
(30:56):
digital twin where you can actually have a.
Speaker 8 (30:58):
Full production copy of production and.
Speaker 14 (31:01):
Essentially have it be the same and you know, potentially
have the data be separated. We're going to have to
have some really smart engineers on the US side of
TikTok to really say whether or not there's backdoors, whether
or not some of the data itself is truly anonymized,
or if we still have a real issue with kind
(31:22):
of foreign interest being able to see USB citizen.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Data and theresa I follow up with a relatively sensitive
political question here, because a lot of anxiety has been
put into the potential biases that creep into this algorithm.
If it's Chinese overseeing controlled whatever, you might make a
byte dance. If it's now overseen and controlled by Oracle,
what can they put in place to ensure that the
(31:45):
users that may or may not migrate over feel comfortable
with the control of algorithm by them and what biases
they need to oversee in the same way that we
question other parent companies such as Metro and Snap.
Speaker 14 (31:59):
I love the question asking here because of our lack
of governance and guardrails over social media platforms, over big tech,
as far as understanding the transparency around these algorithms, how
they train things. Do I, as a user get to
reset my algorithm? Do I get to see transparency into
what's being served up to me or to my children
(32:20):
or to my customers if I have a business account.
Speaker 8 (32:23):
So, because we don't.
Speaker 14 (32:24):
Have that today, this is a great question and it
has to be asked of all the social media and
big tech platforms, and you're right, we don't know potentially
who's sitting on that board, not just Oracle, but the
other investors. You know, are they going to have sort
of a heavy thumb, if you will, on the algorithms
and how they work more to com Obviously.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Evolving story trees are paid in there with us, so
appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (32:47):
CEO for Talis Solutions form of.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
Bush white House CIO coming up of an AI stargate
ambitions could super charge them on for aipower, big implications
from video and Oracle.
Speaker 6 (32:58):
That's next. This is bloombag Tech.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Quil Com CEO Cristiano Arman said that the Nvidia Intel
deal from earlier this week is in a way, and
I quote the moment they had been waiting for. He
spas why talks about the impact on Qualcom and the
rest of the industry when the news broke this.
Speaker 15 (33:29):
Week, when you actually dig deeper on it, and it
was interesting, Actually when did announcement happen, it was interesting.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
We were slightly up.
Speaker 15 (33:38):
It was kind of neutral to positive to Qualcom, and
we saw I think the market stock reaction on arm
On MD and and an Intel was up and the
way we actually look at this, we're incredibly excited because
what he basically means is, I think it's Intel was
sending a message that they're integrated GPU in their AI
(34:03):
products are They're not going to likely not to continue
with that because that's what the market is seeing. It's
going to be in Vidia. So then as in Nvidia
comes in to the integrated GPU market, combining their GPU
with Intel x eighty six, he started to bring AI
into the PC market. And that is the moment we've
(34:23):
been waiting for. And I think that's what we do.
And I think the Qualcom DNA is anything that is
battery power, is high performance, low battery life and a
lot of AI. That's that's where we want the market
to be welcome.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
The CEO Christiano, I'm on there.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Meanwhile, Open ai is pushed to scale up as Stargate
project is set to accelerate demand for AI computes, potentially
lifting other AI sectors from in Video's hardware sales to
Oracle's cloud services for more. We've got mandate seeing senior
tech industry analysts of Bloomberg Intelligence, the thing about everything
that's happening is a misunderstanding of where the demand is
(34:59):
being sent, You've done a really good job. Like Microsoft
is outsourcing to Oracle basically because they don't have their
own capacity to deal with this. Just present the thesis
that you're trying to get the market to understand.
Speaker 16 (35:12):
Yeah, look, I mean open Ai has told us that
they expect to get to two hundred billion dollar in
revenue by twenty thirty. Currently they will likely close the
year at twenty billion in ARR. So you know, when
you look at that seventy percent keeger for the next
four years, I think deals like what they have signed
(35:32):
with Oracle, the three hundred billion dollar deal and then
in video signing up that one hundred billion dollar investment
for ten gigawatt capacity kind of makes sense. How they
get to that capacity which will enable that two hundred
billion dollar in revenue. And we have sliced the different
kind of segments they will have. It won't be just
(35:53):
CHATQPT subscriptions. They will have API sales and AI agent sales.
But the enabling kind of infrastructure for that will come
from additional power and data center capacity that they will
have from all the deals that they are doing. And
that's the vision, And it comes down to how they
execute on that vision.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
There was more news with open Ai looking towards call
weave a little bit more for some of its compute needs.
Now the care we've CEO joined at Ludlow remain a
little bit earlier yesterday.
Speaker 6 (36:23):
Just to listen to what you have to say.
Speaker 17 (36:25):
The challenge that we have is competition among our clients for.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
The infrastructure that we have.
Speaker 17 (36:33):
Right it is not a question of giving up one
client for another client because their demand doesn't completely absorb
all of our infrastructure. It's just a question of we
have one hundred units of compute to deliver in the
next twelve months. We could deliver all one hundred to
client number one, all one hundred to client number two,
(36:56):
or all one hundred to client number three. And the
question is is how are we going to divvy that
up among those coins.
Speaker 6 (37:03):
Issue is supply side Mandle.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
We say time and time again, and how big therefore
is the need? I've seen numbers. We start with Baine
saying two trillion. Then we saw, of course Ali Baba
say it's could be four trillion.
Speaker 6 (37:14):
I've just read.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
McKinsey's bullish case is up to send point nine trillion
by twenty thirty.
Speaker 6 (37:18):
What do you have it as?
Speaker 16 (37:19):
Yeah, look, I think Jensen sort of laid out quite
well with the one hundred billion dollar investment. He said,
for ten gigabart power, you need a four hundred billion
dollar investment. They are putting hundred billion dollars open. Aye
will have to find three hundred billion dollars from somewhere else.
But you can actually see if we end up adding
fifty gigaward of capacity, that would make up you know,
(37:42):
two trillion number. And so from that perspective, then you
start looking at how how much will be the tokens
generated from that additional fifty gigaward power capacity. And the
reason why that's the right framework is because every querry
right now is the function of tokens consumed. I mean,
Google says they have nine hundred eighty trillion tokens per month,
(38:03):
and that seems to be growing quite rapidly. Every company
right now is quantifying that. And so if you make
it a function of power, it's easy to see where
we will land up given you know, the tokens consumed
per ai agent or per query or any other use
case that Jenny I has.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
And then we just need to source that power and
deep seeing Bloomberg Intelligence, great analysis, go read it.
Speaker 6 (38:26):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
Meanwhile, coming up, we'll take a look at how Apple
lagged so far behind on AI, how.
Speaker 6 (38:31):
It can catch up. This is Blomberg Tech.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Apple.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
There's long leed Silicon Valley in tech, but in the
world of AI, it's fallen way behind. Continuing missteps could
arguably threaten the ipho's dominance. Bloomberg Originals took a deep
dive into what went wrong and if Apple can catch up.
Speaker 7 (39:04):
Sirih Well the name of the guy I had a
meeting with a couple of months ago at Cafe Cranell.
Speaker 8 (39:08):
I met Zach Wingate at Cafe Grenelle.
Speaker 18 (39:11):
Sach actor Bella Ramsey was bailed out by a new
version of Apple's Siri that was meant to be available for.
Speaker 19 (39:18):
All That feature still has not been released. Originally supposed
to come out in April May of twenty twenty five,
but now it's on track for Spring twenty twenty six.
Speaker 18 (39:26):
Apple took down the ad and is facing a lawsuit
over the delay, but the disconnect exposed a deeper issue.
The company was losing ground in the AI race.
Speaker 19 (39:36):
They totally missed the boat. There was indecision. There was
lack of concern that this could become a real thing.
Speaker 6 (39:42):
This is a story about how hard it can be
to stay on top.
Speaker 16 (39:45):
AI is something that wasn't in their DNA.
Speaker 18 (39:48):
Continued failure doesn't just hurt Siri, it could threaten the
iPhone's dominance. The product line accounts for more than half
of Apple's revenue, so missteps with what's become its most
non noticeable missing features could be devastating.
Speaker 19 (40:03):
We saw this for many decades. Nokia was at the
very top of the phone industry. Apple came out with
a much better mouse truck. BlackBerry was at the top
of the industry.
Speaker 9 (40:12):
Apple came out.
Speaker 19 (40:13):
With the better mouse truck. They are going to be
in danger of the next Apple being created if they
don't get their act together soon with some serious acquisitions
changes in partnerships.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
You can catch the full episode at Bloomberg dot com,
on YouTube or on the terminal. Two Wall Street bulls,
Tom Lee and Dan Ives are going against the grain
of Wall Street, leveraging social media to bring in fresh
inflows and outperformance in their ETFs. For more, Bloomberg Cross
(40:43):
asset reporter Isabelle Lee joins us this is one of
the most read stories on the Bloomberg terminal and the website.
It's not surprising two characters megatech bulls, but they've launched
ETFs explain the basics what we need to know about
what they're up to.
Speaker 20 (40:58):
So these two hf stand out in a CE or
four four two hundred ETFs in the US because they
engineer a rare double performance, which is outperformance and flows.
Usually you're outperformed, but you don't see flows. Usually have flows,
but the performance isn't that. So both of them have
those two and the both of them also are really
this big figures. Tomlely has five hundred thousand followers on Twitter,
(41:19):
dan Ives has around two hundred thousand. So they go
straight to their retail investors, and they go straight to
them with their ideas and guess what these are. Retail
investors buy them up by the billions as well.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
Their ideas go straight to a potential retail and institutional investor.
And at the same time, say dan Ives comes on
this show as a buyside and sell side analyst. He's
coming on and trying to say I'm independent and my
view is that these companies are going to go higher
and he does think they're all going to go high.
Speaker 6 (41:50):
He's a permeable. But what if we start to question evaluations.
What if at some point.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
He goes negative on the idea of certain stocks. Does
that damage the ETF inflows?
Speaker 6 (41:59):
How does he remain independent in this way.
Speaker 20 (42:02):
That's a good point, Caroline, And this is a new trend.
We're seeing that these prominent figures are launching their own ETF.
So both Tom Lee and Danives have their own really
strong base because of their research. They both just send
out researchers every day. You get their notes multiple times
a day if you pay as a client. And then
they thought, you know what, why not let me wrap
my ideas into this one big ETF so that my
followers or my now investors can just buy those ETFs.
Speaker 6 (42:24):
In one click.
Speaker 20 (42:25):
And that's a beautiful ets and one click you can
really just purchase them. But to your point, that is
true because followers are loyal to them, they listen to
their every call.
Speaker 6 (42:33):
But what if they now it's the question of.
Speaker 20 (42:36):
Whether there's going to be some self interest that remains
to be c and I'm sure they practice fiduciary and
they're doing what's best for their clients, so.
Speaker 6 (42:42):
The rest of their interests.
Speaker 20 (42:43):
But then it's really interesting because these big name launches
from Rubini also he launches own ETFs, even Gmo. Even
Rick Reader who's now in contention to Fetchir, he has
his own ETF. So it's really a new wave. And
I think not all famous people when they launch their
own ETFs, not all of them gain traction. For them
at least it's doing well.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
They are their own personal brands. Hopefully that's thrups some
picks real quick. But dan Ives is charismatic. Just explain
to those that don't know what he's like.
Speaker 20 (43:10):
Where do we begin with Danas every quart he has
this quotable. He wears these colorful clothes. He's always in
a cap. Everyone is in black and white, and he's
just really this big, red, colorful figure. Tomley is the same.
They make this big, audacious bets and it really is
a SoundBite that you've'll forever listened to.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
Interesting mean, they both recently become chairs of digital asset
treasury companies as well, so they seem to be in
sync on certain areas of the market. Bloomberg's is Abelli
great reporting and great story. Go read it that does
it from this edition at Blomberg tech Head.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Yeah, don't forget to check out the podcast. You know
where to find it.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
It's on the Bloomberg terminal, it's online, it's on Apple,
it's on Spotify, and it's on iHeart. What a week
it's been from San Francisco and New York City.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
It's Bloomberg
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive
from coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New York
and Eva Low in sentences go.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
This is Bloomberg Tech coming up.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
President Trump advances plans for American investors to buy TikTok's
US operations, with a potential value of fourteen billion dollars.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
As we discussed the later day I bubble warning, hedge
fund manager David Einhorn cautions that huge spending on AI
infrastructure may destroy vast amounts of capital.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
And our conversation with Qualcom CEO and the changing chip
landscape in the wake of Nvidia's Intel deal, and.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
A lot more, a lot more, including the market look
over the last five days, we have seen pressure on
tech stocks more broadly. You're putting in the macro perspective
of maybe we lean away from just the Federal Reserve
being the key function tactic here, and indeed we start
to question valuations more broadly. We're off more than a
percentage point on the NASDAK not significant moves, the biggest
drop in the five day basis that we've seen since
(01:11):
the beginning of August, but still notable in terms of sentiment.
Where sentiment has really changed is Crypto's strategy were formerly
known as MicroStrategy, the worst performer on the week, and
I'm looking at Bitcoin off by five point six percent
key day for options expiring today, ED, what are you
looking at?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Okay, this is a story that's moving tech and moving markets.
Intel and Global Foundaries are both up significantly. The Wall
Street journals reporting that the Trump administration is looking at
a policy where it will require US chip makers on
a one for one basis to have the equivalent number
of chips manufactured in the US as they do their
customers import from overseas. We'll try and match that, but
(01:49):
it's moving markets. Then there's Oracle, so Oracle on a
five day basis on track for its biggest weekly drop
since April. We know more about the structure of a
deal for US TikTok, the breaking news in the last
hour Bloomberg reporting citing sources that even in the event
that this deal is done and completed, China and byte
(02:12):
Dance will still take more than half the profits from
US operations of TikTok. Let's get all the details with
Bloombo's Alex Levine, who covers social media and has been
all over this story. Let's start with what happened out
in the White House last night. The President, the Treasury
Secretary all explaining to us, along with the Vice President
Alex the structure of this deal, what is new and
(02:33):
what do we know?
Speaker 5 (02:35):
Well, I think what we know about the deal so
far is that Oracle is set to play a huge
role in helping the new US TikTok entity secure user data,
and also the algorithm that is going to be leased
from byte Dance for the United States to use and
retrain using all US user data. What we saw from
the White House yesterday at the Executive Order signing, there
(02:55):
was actually not that much new in terms of what
we know as far as China where China stands on this.
There are a lot of questions from reporters about what
sorts of nod or what sorts of approval the Chinese
president has given to Trump, and it seems that Trump
has been sending some mixed messaging on exactly where China stands.
But I do think that one thing that is becoming
(03:15):
clear is that as we begin to learn more about
the structure of the deal and what by Dance will
get from it. There are more and more questions, and
I think some more scrutiny and even criticism from members
of Trump's own party over what the eventual what the
eventual outcome will be.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
I think exactly that the Chinese embassy has made the
latest statements say the US side needs to provide an
open fare and non discriminatory environment for Chinese investors.
Speaker 6 (03:41):
So no, yes, go for it.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
You can take this part of TikTok and start reworking
in the underlying algorithm. For me, the question is is
Oracle the right person to be overseeing the algorithm changes?
And more broadly, how on earth are they going to
separate the US version? And more broadly, what about the
latest voyce is reporting that we're seeing that maybe byte docetells.
Speaker 6 (04:04):
End up still controlling operations with that in any way
satisfied national security.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
Issues hit well, I think it depends how you ask
on this first question that you had, which is is
Oracle the right partner for this? If you asked the
Trump administration, you asked the White House. Absolutely, they said
yesterday that Oracle has been partnering with TikTok for several
years already on trying to cordon off US user data
from bye Edance's global operations in China. But I think
one thing that's very top of mind for me is
(04:30):
that TikTok and Oracle have been working together on this
for years, and it has been an imperfect solution. This
was proposed as a solution to the Biden administration back
in twenty twenty two, and after years of negotiations with
a framework that looked almost identical to what we're now
talking about with TikTok and Oracle today, the Biden administration
was not comfortable that this would adequately solve national security concerns.
(04:51):
So you're starting to hear from lawmakers and others in
across Washington that this might just be a new version
of that, and if so, that that's just not going.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
To cut it, very similar to Project Texas from your
own reporting, Alex Lavigne, thanks for breaking that down. Still
so many questions to answer, but let's just talk about
the advertising side of all of this. I'm beginning Rachel
Tipograph found our CEO of analytics platform, Mickmac with all
these questions remaining about how on Earth the algorithm continues
(05:23):
and whether we all remain one hundred and seventy million
US users.
Speaker 6 (05:27):
Using it as much.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
What are advertising decisions being made right now?
Speaker 7 (05:32):
Advertisers in a weight and C mode. Right now, it
is still commonplace for TikTok, and we're actually seeing all
time high traffic in September from first twenty percent of
total traffic from advertisers was allocated to TikTok. If we
date back to Q one, it was ten percent. So
(05:52):
people still see TikTok as a place to build brand
and drive performance all at once. That being said, major
advertisers have contingency plants. The moment that TikTok America is created,
I don't think we're going to see traffic at twenty percent.
These major advertisers are going to wait to see if
(06:12):
the user base is still there, if the engagement is
still there, and if the ad performance results are still there.
If those things are to be true, then absolutely you'll
see dollars move into TikTok America. But in the meantime,
you're going to probably see a short term boom to
environments like meta and alphabet where there are other places
(06:34):
to invest your short form video ad dollars.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
How is this going to impact efficiencies for brands? Because
at the moment you can go to one platform and
have global reach.
Speaker 6 (06:45):
That's going to be really important.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
For some of these global companies if they have to
silo off a US targeted ad versus global.
Speaker 7 (06:54):
Absolutely, there's a domino effect here. A lot of these
major advertisers, they have these global joint business plans in
place where they're guaranteeing ad dollars across multiple geographies. Advertisers
have major question marks. Are those agreements going to be
thrown out the window? And then from the actual operating standpoint,
there has been a single platform to do buying, measurement
(07:17):
and optimizations. It is unclear now if advertisers are going
to have to log into multiple platforms and then Carolyn
Prer point, what are the results going to be? Which
is why major advertisers they have choices they can go
invest dollars in other places. It's the sm B businesses
that have been heavily reliant on an environment like TikTok
(07:38):
or Amazon where they might go all in, but if
they don't see those results, I promise you you're going
to see dollars move out of that environment back into
places like Meta and Google.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Rachel.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
What we do know from the reporting is that there
will be a retraining or even from the ground up
rebuild of the algorithm. How worried are people in your
community and your network that that basically removes what makes
(08:11):
TikTok good for them, that the algorithm is not as
effective as it currently is when Oracle has been able
to review it and change it.
Speaker 7 (08:20):
Yeah, it's less about the algorithm, and it's more about
will user engagement still hold? And will the effectiveness of
the ads, meaning the cost per impression or the cost
per click or the cost per sale.
Speaker 8 (08:35):
Will those hold.
Speaker 7 (08:36):
If those things don't hold, you will see dollars move out.
So the algorithm is a mechanism to make those things true.
But what advertisers are really concerned about is results.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
What Bloomberg has reported is that byte Dance is still
going to get fifty percent of the profits from a
US TikTok, and that MGX, a state backed investment vehicle
of UAE, is one of the anchor investors. If you're
a content creator on TikTok, or you're an advertiser on TikTok,
do you care about either of those considerations.
Speaker 7 (09:13):
If you're an advertiser in TikTok and you're a global brand.
I'm talking Fortune one thousand brands. You care about two things.
You care about performance, but then you also care about
brand safety. And so if they don't feel that their
concerns are being addressed by this new ownership structure around
brand safety, then yes they will care. If they believe
(09:34):
it's being addressed, then it's irrelevant to that creators. Creators
care more about the culture and the community. Will the
community still stay in TikTok? Will the vibe still be
the same? They don't really care about the ownership structure
as long as the community engagement is there.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Let's talk about a name that you said that maybe
you will be benefiting amid all of this, and is
meta and the move to Instagram in this moment by
advertising dollars. But what's happening in Europe at the moment
is interesting with meta as well and the UK and
being forced to basically add a subscription offer rather than
offering just advertising. How advertisers looking at that, how much
(10:14):
do they anticipate people will go for an ad free
version of Instagram.
Speaker 7 (10:20):
I love what's happening right now because we can look
at mcmac's data globally, we do operate globally, and it's
really interesting. The laws that are taking place in the
EU and UK when it comes to advertising is way
more stricter than the US, and as a result, platforms
like Meta have struggled in recent years in those environments.
(10:43):
In twenty twenty three, Meta had to introduce the same
ad free tier in the EU, and there's been no
public data whether users have adopted that or not. The
only thing that we've seen happen is that the price
per tier come down, which is a signal that maybe
adoption was initially there. Fast forward, the UK government is
(11:05):
adopting very similar rules as the EU, where they're putting
very strict guardrails in place and how platforms can target
users and essentially you have to opt in one hundred
percent and if you don't opt in one hundred percent,
then you have to pay for an ad free tier.
What's interesting is that right now in the UK, seventy
(11:27):
five percent of ad investment is happening in Meta. Meanwhile
in the EU it's closer to thirty six percent, which
is another signal that if this happens in the UK,
you're going to start to see ad diversification outside of
Meta into other platforms. So it's actually the reverse of
(11:49):
what's happening in the US.
Speaker 8 (11:50):
In the US.
Speaker 7 (11:52):
Opportunity for Meta to grab market share. In the UK,
they might actually lose market share right.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Now, Nick mag Ceo, Rachel Tippograph back on Bloomberg Tech,
Back and forth.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Great to have you on the show. A story we're tracking.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Jaomi unveiled a smartphone designed to take on the just
released iPhone seventeen, underscoring the Chinese company's broader ambitions to
take on US rivals from Apple to Tesla. The Jaomi seventeen,
which will be offered in Pro and Promax models just
like Apple's Marque series, starts at six hundred and thirty
dollars for the most basic model and rising to about
(12:28):
eight hundred and forty dollars at the top end, more
than one hundred dollars cheaper than the base iPhone seventeen.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Carol, Let's go back to AI now, because coming up
computing powerhousers that are feeding the AI boom, they're seeing
explosive growth of their own.
Speaker 6 (12:43):
How will this compute market evolve? One of that next
This is a Boomberg Tech.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
The AI revolution is fueling explosive growth for companies selling
computer power. Call Weave, despite forecasting losses this year, is
valued at over fifty billion dollars, while Oracle's added two
hundred and fifty billion so its market cap. That surge
is subject of this weekend's essay by Bloomberg Ideas and
Culture senior writer Felix Salmon, who joins US now. I
(13:16):
spoke to the core Weave CEO last night and I
basically put to him that all of the people in
this ecosystem are writing checks they can't cash. The demand
is there, but their ability to pay for it. The
infrastructure needs to be built, maybe it's not. And you
make a really smart case on just how wide some
of the losses are with all the spending as as
(13:38):
much as they have momentum in what they're doing.
Speaker 9 (13:40):
And what that in financial terms is called is counterparty risk.
That if you are selling, if you're building data centers,
and you're expecting trillions of dollars of demand, then what
you're worried about is that the people who are contracting
to pay, like you know, Open the Eye has said
that it's going to pay Ora called three hundred billion dollar,
that they just won't have that money because they're losing money,
(14:04):
and where are they going to be able to find it?
You know, in video can't just throw billions of dollars
at them forever. And so the big question then comes,
how are they going to be able to hedge that
counterparty risk? And the answer to that question is what
if compute is actually traded as a commodity on markets
on exchanges. That solves a huge number of problems.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
And people are already walking that line and already building
that offering. It seems like Felix push us forward as
to how we could get what you call really these
combinatorial auctions.
Speaker 9 (14:39):
Combinator yeah, is something called the Milgram assignment auction. And
all markets are auctions, right. If you think about the
stock market, people are bidding every microsecond for how much
they're willing to bid and offer on various stocks. And
that's a very simple auction. It's just like there's one
object and you can have a single price of that object.
(14:59):
It's the share of stock. Other auctions, other commodities have
more complicated things, like in the oil market, you have
to invent these standards like ren crude or West Texas
Intermedia that people can sort of agree on. When you're
talking about something as complicated as compute, where there are
hundreds of different variables that people care about, what chips
you have, how much uptime there is, what time of
(15:22):
day you're using, all of this kind of stuff. Then
you need a very sophisticated auction that is powered itself
by AI. But we have these companies one Kronos and
Autonomics that are actually building that right now, and really
it's super necessary. Without it, we aren't going to be
able to see the level of investment that people are
sure is coming.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Food for thought, and that's exactly what job description is.
Felix Salmon is a great really go dive into it
this weekend. But for more on AI and the questioning
of valuations around AI as well, let's talk to Stephanie Aliaga.
Speaker 6 (15:55):
She's global market strategist at JP Morgan. No, we just
have the latest David Einhorn coming out saying I'm.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Worried about the shaft scale of AI infrastructure investment to
the moment that billions is going to be lost in
terms of capital.
Speaker 6 (16:09):
What are you thinking of these warnings around a bubble.
Speaker 10 (16:11):
Yeah, it's clear we're seeing explosive demand demand growth that
we've really never seen before. That doesn't mean it's not real,
but it does mean that we should continue to really
look at these valuations and perform these sanity checks.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
And what gives me.
Speaker 10 (16:26):
Some confidence when I'm performing my sanity check is that
this infrastructure wave, as significant as it is, is powered
by real demand growth that is already showing up in
the numbers. It's funded by real cash flows, and even
after all of this enormous spending the four major hyperscalers,
they're still free cash flow positive, and so there's a
lot of demand, and still the supply constraint on infrastructure
(16:50):
is there. So there's no house of cards underneath this
AI infrastructure wave, I'd say. But still I think the
AI theme is it's a lot term. One deep seek
was one upset that we had earlier this year. There
will surely be others, and right now we're in this
kind of period of digestion. But I think we're just
waiting for that next piece of like bullish commentary and data,
(17:11):
and then we're going to appreciate the fundamentals once more.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Stephanie, every phone call I get at the moment about
specific infrastructure deal there's an element of debt involved. How
closely are you tracking that and are you worried about it?
Speaker 10 (17:27):
So the infrastructure spending boom is beyond just those four
major hyperscalers right that fifth in line, as you know,
came out with a bond deal this week.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
So we are.
Speaker 10 (17:36):
Seeing that AI is going to cost a lot of money,
and you know, the debt markets are coming in to
help fund some of those gaps and spending. I'm not
incredibly worried about that just yet. I mean, the bargain
that bond investors are making is that there will ultimately
be enough revenue generated from this to pay back the bonds.
That's maybe a more conservative bet than what equity markets
(17:57):
are making by putting more money into these lead megacaps
that already have sky high valuations. But more broadly, I
think it just shows that, you know, this infrastructure wave
has a lot of urgency behind it, and it's beginning
to touch many other corners of the market. The corporate
bond market is one of them, but we're also seeing
(18:18):
it in utilities and infrastructure and public and private and
so forth.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
I mean, a forty year bond with what was it
ended up a yield of just about one point sixty
five percentage points.
Speaker 6 (18:28):
So for treasuries feels.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Like, I mean, relatively little to have to pay for
the price of that longer term debt, but there is belief.
Speaker 6 (18:34):
I want to go back to the comment you made,
this isn't a house of cards. How do you feel
though about some of.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
The circularity arguments that are going on that basically it's
the same people are buying, basically giving money in equity
for promise of buying their GPUs later.
Speaker 10 (18:46):
Absolutely, markets have been rewarding large capital spending commitments, and
we should not be rewarding redundant capital spending commitments. And
I think that is one of the I guess the
sanity checks that we've all performed this week is okay.
It seems like capital slashing from one balance sheet to
another balance sheet. But a lot of the comparisons that
are being made to the dot com bubble of companies
selling bannerats to one another trying to juice up their valuations.
(19:08):
What's different this time around is the spending is grounded
in real infrastructure, real chip spending, real data centers, and
so that gives me a bit more confidence on that.
But we know absolutely should not be rewarding companies for
redundant capital spending commitments.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Stephanie, really quick, can the global energy sector.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Meet the demand?
Speaker 10 (19:29):
That's the million dollar question, right, billion trillion dollar question.
I guess The reality is it's going to take all
hands on deck. And while a lot of data center
power commitments have been made in fact this year enough
to power New York, Chicago and LA for a year.
That's the degree of power commitments that have been made.
(19:49):
A lot of that's in the pipeline. The reality is
we are confronting in very aged infrastructure grid. It's going
to take time until the twenty thirties at minimum, until
nuclear power, even new natural gas power is going to
be there. In the meantime, there's hope that we can
get a lot more efficient and that the demand is
it's tracking up, but it's also tracking up gradually, right,
(20:12):
so we're not too worried about that real I think
bottleneck moment happening, it seems a few years into the future.
Until then maybe we see more efficiency gains or the
costs of compute have come down ninety eight percent already.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Stephaniely Aliaga, global market strategist at JP Morgan Asset Management,
thank you very much. Now coming up, Bloomberg Tech Asias
sat down with Holton Nu from bay Too Apollo, China's
biggest robotaxi operator at conversations.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
The next this is Blenberg.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Tech the race that bring driverist taxis to the world.
It is on and while the likes of Weimo have
focused on establishing domestic strongholds, Chinese companies are aggressively expanding internationally.
Here is by do Apollos, Global manager of overseas Business.
(21:00):
You speaking with Blumberg Tech Asia, Aldreders.
Speaker 11 (21:03):
I think both Waymo and Bido Apollo, we are the
only two companies who provide over one thousand cars in
all the cities.
Speaker 12 (21:13):
What does your expansion plan and your and your scale
up look like.
Speaker 11 (21:18):
We have already signed several legally binding contract with different
partners globally. Any single one of them is regarding one
thousands level of robotaxis deployment. I believe once we remove
the safety driver from the car, you know, the numbers
of deployment can can raise gigantically right, since what we
(21:40):
are aiming for is uh is the real AUTI of
striving is without safety driver.
Speaker 12 (21:46):
With working with us companies Uber and Lyft. Do you
see any risk of geopolitics coming into the equation as well?
Speaker 11 (21:54):
From bidose perspective, we think both China and the US
have enough ability and wisdom to overcome such kind of
geopolitical problems or difficulties. So we believe since we are
also commniests working for for new technology, also for profit
(22:17):
for profile, generating profits for for both companies, so I
think we're yeah, everything will be good in the end.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
That was by do Apollos Holton New along with our
own Annabel Drulers. Check out the full episode of Bloomberg
Tech Asia online or on the Bloomberg terminal. A lot
of stories coming out of the region now coming up.
More on TikTok as President Trump advances plans for US
investors to buy the social media platform in the US.
About that story. Next, This is Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back
(23:01):
to Bloomberg Tech Cara. I'm sounding the tech ipo watch
Clackson the alarm, and the name I'm looking at is Klana.
Down almost six percent in the session. But the reason
that's notable is the shares trading at thirty nine dollars
nine cents a share, meaning they are down below the
forty dollars IPO price pretty quickly as well. Like think
(23:22):
of all the other IBOs you and I've covered in
recent weeks and months, and some of them had a
lot of long term momentum. This feels like a pretty
quick drop back, and there is a broader sell off
in fintech right now. But it's one to watch this Friday.
Sorry to bring the mood down, but it's a it's
a notable moment.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Oracle. Sorry, I've just got carried away. I'm having a
good time.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Oracle over the course of five days is down almost
eight percent, also bearing in mind broader momentum that it's
had in recent weeks, right, But to kind of sell
the news week where we got a lot more detail
on its participation in US TikTok and how it's going
to operationally and to anchor, investor and board seat member
run things. But that's five day drop, biggest in April.
(24:06):
Please take it away.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
I will, because yes, Oracles run far higher in recent months,
and no ononder there's been a profit taking. But we
aren't going to drill into Oracle into potential TikTok investment
and the role that it plays with Bluemost brody Ford
who covers the company. And there is a great opinion
piece out of our colleague Davely who really puts out
really the question of what expertise does Oracle, a cloud
(24:28):
company have when it comes to social media algorithms, brody.
Speaker 13 (24:33):
Not a whole lot. I think the UL maybe they
a would tell you as much as well. I think
it's very interesting how much rhetorical value the administration has
placed on Oracle's involvement. They are the kind of technological
underpinning of a lot of the operations, but they're the
cloud vendor, right, I mean, they are not an algorithm
(24:54):
designing company. They're not a business operations social media. They're
not a consumer company period, right. And so as Oracle
takes a very large role on the stage of how
this TikTok deal is rolled out, my anticipation is that
their role doesn't change a whole lot from what it
is today, which is a cloud infrastructure vendor.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Brady, you and I have spent a lot of the
last thirty six hours on the phone trying to work
this out, so let's swap notes. My understanding is that
the Trump administration went to MGX which is a basically
state backed investment firm in the UAE, and invited them
to participate. You also have some details on these kind
(25:38):
of anchor investors and what role they'll take.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Just give us your notes please, right.
Speaker 13 (25:43):
So, these three anchor investors will likely get about a
fifteen percent share each and a board seat. The exact
numbers may shift around with the idea is that these
are the kind of three anchor non Chinese investors, kind
of each coming from somewhat different backgrounds Oracle. We've discussed
MGX being an Amorati investment company than Silver Like being
(26:06):
a US tech focused investment company, and so I think
the idea is showing that, hey, there's a breadth of
folks behind this initiative. Though of course the reporting is
very live in terms of exactly what these three companies
are going to be buying.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
The most brady Ford busy week. Forew a lot more
reportings come, Thank you very much. Let's bring in Teresa Payton.
She's the CEO of Foota List Solutions and the former
White House Chief Information Officer under George W. Bush administration.
If we may, I want to go to the UAE
piece of this first, because you know, the emphasis from
the administration was making US TikTok American. The UAE is
(26:46):
an ally of the United States in defense, for example.
You know there is weapons and other agreements there. But
in the context of something that is digital, what do
you make of MGX participating as an anger for investor
and potential board seat holder of a US TikTok.
Speaker 8 (27:05):
Well, I think it's very interesting.
Speaker 14 (27:06):
Obviously they have deep enough pockets to be a part
of this, which is kind of part of the deal negotiation.
But I to have some open questions because there's some
open questions about how they feel about social media for
their own citizens. And so now we're talking about we're
going to have some type of a twin algorithm, because
(27:27):
by Dance is still going to have the algorithm, but
we're going to have it here in the United States
and we're going to be retraining.
Speaker 8 (27:32):
It on US data.
Speaker 14 (27:33):
And so I've got a lot of questions around that
board seat and what kind of voting rights, what kind
of direction, what kind of influence they may have over
this sort of digital twin of an algorithm we're going
to have the US and how that retraining's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Okay, from a pure technology standpoint, how do you think
this is going to work read the algorithm or.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Is it going to work at all?
Speaker 14 (28:00):
Well, hopefully they've got some really great engineers working on this,
so whenever you kind of go into this mode of
there's going to be a master copy and then we're
going to have our own local, regional copy, but it's
going to be essentially the same, except for it's not
we're going to be training it on us data. I
end up having a lot of questions like what's the
quality assurance for this?
Speaker 8 (28:21):
Will it still feel and look the same?
Speaker 14 (28:23):
I mean, TikTok may lose it's hip and cool factor
once we take sort of the global piece out of
it and start.
Speaker 8 (28:32):
To run at locally.
Speaker 14 (28:33):
So it'll be very interesting to see what the knowledge
transfer will be. I know, as part of Project Dallas,
TikTok Usa has been doing a lot of work to
be in compliance with the Foreign Control of you know,
kind of regulations around Siphius, and so it could be
they already have people very well trained up to take
(28:53):
the reins of TikTok USA's algorithm. But if they don't,
I'm a little worried about how it's going to be
too owned and maybe a little bumpy once we kind
of do this split and have this algorithm twin of
sort of the master copy, but it has to be retrained.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
And let's face it, if they're Byte Dance TikTok employees
who've been working on Project Texas, who says that byte
Dancers going to want them to move to us TikTok?
Speaker 6 (29:19):
So we have to question what.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Engineering talent follows through theresa. I'm also interested in. There's
been some Reuters reporting and Bloomberg's yet to been confirming
on it.
Speaker 6 (29:28):
But the idea that actually byte.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Dance as a whole has a lot more control than
perhaps have been previously thought. Yes, they perhaps give over
the algorithm in a sunch way and it becomes updated
and monitored by the likes of Oracle, but they then
hold a separate division that will continue to be wholly owned,
and they'll control the revenue generating business operations such as
e commerce and advertising.
Speaker 6 (29:51):
How does that technically work.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
And how does that make us understand it from a
national security perspective?
Speaker 14 (29:57):
Yeah, this is very interesting to me. So I think
a couple of things. One, we know the data has
been physically separated, but the algorithm itself. The reason why
an algorithm like TikTok's was so popular and beat out
most US based social media companies, at least as it
relates to gen Z, gen A and even you know,
(30:19):
candidly other generations. A lot of people have adopted TikTok,
and the reason why it's so good is that algorithm
is constantly learning. How does it learn? It has to
train itself on data and where you come from, where.
Speaker 8 (30:33):
You go to and all of those things.
Speaker 14 (30:35):
I don't know how the algorithm stays hip and cool
and edgy if it's completely separated from ByteDance, So how
does it learn if it becomes a black box of learning?
So lots of questions still around how that engineering is
going to work and how are they going to set
this up. So, for example, there is a term called
(30:56):
digital twin where you can actually have a.
Speaker 8 (30:58):
Full production copy of production and.
Speaker 14 (31:01):
Essentially have it be the same and you know, potentially
have the data be separated. We're going to have to
have some really smart engineers on the US side of
TikTok to really say whether or not there's backdoors, whether
or not some of the data itself is truly anonymized,
or if we still have a real issue with kind
(31:22):
of foreign interest being able to see USB citizen.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Data and theresa I follow up with a relatively sensitive
political question here, because a lot of anxiety has been
put into the potential biases that creep into this algorithm.
If it's Chinese overseeing controlled whatever, you might make a
byte dance. If it's now overseen and controlled by Oracle,
what can they put in place to ensure that the
(31:45):
users that may or may not migrate over feel comfortable
with the control of algorithm by them and what biases
they need to oversee in the same way that we
question other parent companies such as Metro and Snap.
Speaker 14 (31:59):
I love the question asking here because of our lack
of governance and guardrails over social media platforms, over big tech,
as far as understanding the transparency around these algorithms, how
they train things. Do I, as a user get to
reset my algorithm? Do I get to see transparency into
what's being served up to me or to my children
(32:20):
or to my customers if I have a business account.
Speaker 8 (32:23):
So, because we don't.
Speaker 14 (32:24):
Have that today, this is a great question and it
has to be asked of all the social media and
big tech platforms, and you're right, we don't know potentially
who's sitting on that board, not just Oracle, but the
other investors. You know, are they going to have sort
of a heavy thumb, if you will, on the algorithms
and how they work more to com Obviously.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Evolving story trees are paid in there with us, so
appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (32:47):
CEO for Talis Solutions form of.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
Bush white House CIO coming up of an AI stargate
ambitions could super charge them on for aipower, big implications
from video and Oracle.
Speaker 6 (32:58):
That's next. This is bloombag Tech.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Quil Com CEO Cristiano Arman said that the Nvidia Intel
deal from earlier this week is in a way, and
I quote the moment they had been waiting for. He
spas why talks about the impact on Qualcom and the
rest of the industry when the news broke this.
Speaker 15 (33:29):
Week, when you actually dig deeper on it, and it
was interesting, Actually when did announcement happen, it was interesting.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
We were slightly up.
Speaker 15 (33:38):
It was kind of neutral to positive to Qualcom, and
we saw I think the market stock reaction on arm
On MD and and an Intel was up and the
way we actually look at this, we're incredibly excited because
what he basically means is, I think it's Intel was
sending a message that they're integrated GPU in their AI
(34:03):
products are They're not going to likely not to continue
with that because that's what the market is seeing. It's
going to be in Vidia. So then as in Nvidia
comes in to the integrated GPU market, combining their GPU
with Intel x eighty six, he started to bring AI
into the PC market. And that is the moment we've
(34:23):
been waiting for. And I think that's what we do.
And I think the Qualcom DNA is anything that is
battery power, is high performance, low battery life and a
lot of AI. That's that's where we want the market
to be welcome.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
The CEO Christiano, I'm on there.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Meanwhile, Open ai is pushed to scale up as Stargate
project is set to accelerate demand for AI computes, potentially
lifting other AI sectors from in Video's hardware sales to
Oracle's cloud services for more. We've got mandate seeing senior
tech industry analysts of Bloomberg Intelligence, the thing about everything
that's happening is a misunderstanding of where the demand is
(34:59):
being sent, You've done a really good job. Like Microsoft
is outsourcing to Oracle basically because they don't have their
own capacity to deal with this. Just present the thesis
that you're trying to get the market to understand.
Speaker 16 (35:12):
Yeah, look, I mean open Ai has told us that
they expect to get to two hundred billion dollar in
revenue by twenty thirty. Currently they will likely close the
year at twenty billion in ARR. So you know, when
you look at that seventy percent keeger for the next
four years, I think deals like what they have signed
(35:32):
with Oracle, the three hundred billion dollar deal and then
in video signing up that one hundred billion dollar investment
for ten gigawatt capacity kind of makes sense. How they
get to that capacity which will enable that two hundred
billion dollar in revenue. And we have sliced the different
kind of segments they will have. It won't be just
(35:53):
CHATQPT subscriptions. They will have API sales and AI agent sales.
But the enabling kind of infrastructure for that will come
from additional power and data center capacity that they will
have from all the deals that they are doing. And
that's the vision, And it comes down to how they
execute on that vision.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
There was more news with open Ai looking towards call
weave a little bit more for some of its compute needs.
Now the care we've CEO joined at Ludlow remain a
little bit earlier yesterday.
Speaker 6 (36:23):
Just to listen to what you have to say.
Speaker 17 (36:25):
The challenge that we have is competition among our clients for.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
The infrastructure that we have.
Speaker 17 (36:33):
Right it is not a question of giving up one
client for another client because their demand doesn't completely absorb
all of our infrastructure. It's just a question of we
have one hundred units of compute to deliver in the
next twelve months. We could deliver all one hundred to
client number one, all one hundred to client number two,
(36:56):
or all one hundred to client number three. And the
question is is how are we going to divvy that
up among those coins.
Speaker 6 (37:03):
Issue is supply side Mandle.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
We say time and time again, and how big therefore
is the need? I've seen numbers. We start with Baine
saying two trillion. Then we saw, of course Ali Baba
say it's could be four trillion.
Speaker 6 (37:14):
I've just read.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
McKinsey's bullish case is up to send point nine trillion
by twenty thirty.
Speaker 6 (37:18):
What do you have it as?
Speaker 16 (37:19):
Yeah, look, I think Jensen sort of laid out quite
well with the one hundred billion dollar investment. He said,
for ten gigabart power, you need a four hundred billion
dollar investment. They are putting hundred billion dollars open. Aye
will have to find three hundred billion dollars from somewhere else.
But you can actually see if we end up adding
fifty gigaward of capacity, that would make up you know,
(37:42):
two trillion number. And so from that perspective, then you
start looking at how how much will be the tokens
generated from that additional fifty gigaward power capacity. And the
reason why that's the right framework is because every querry
right now is the function of tokens consumed. I mean,
Google says they have nine hundred eighty trillion tokens per month,
(38:03):
and that seems to be growing quite rapidly. Every company
right now is quantifying that. And so if you make
it a function of power, it's easy to see where
we will land up given you know, the tokens consumed
per ai agent or per query or any other use
case that Jenny I has.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
And then we just need to source that power and
deep seeing Bloomberg Intelligence, great analysis, go read it.
Speaker 6 (38:26):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
Meanwhile, coming up, we'll take a look at how Apple
lagged so far behind on AI, how.
Speaker 6 (38:31):
It can catch up. This is Blomberg Tech.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Apple.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
There's long leed Silicon Valley in tech, but in the
world of AI, it's fallen way behind. Continuing missteps could
arguably threaten the ipho's dominance. Bloomberg Originals took a deep
dive into what went wrong and if Apple can catch up.
Speaker 7 (39:04):
Sirih Well the name of the guy I had a
meeting with a couple of months ago at Cafe Cranell.
Speaker 8 (39:08):
I met Zach Wingate at Cafe Grenelle.
Speaker 18 (39:11):
Sach actor Bella Ramsey was bailed out by a new
version of Apple's Siri that was meant to be available for.
Speaker 19 (39:18):
All That feature still has not been released. Originally supposed
to come out in April May of twenty twenty five,
but now it's on track for Spring twenty twenty six.
Speaker 18 (39:26):
Apple took down the ad and is facing a lawsuit
over the delay, but the disconnect exposed a deeper issue.
The company was losing ground in the AI race.
Speaker 19 (39:36):
They totally missed the boat. There was indecision. There was
lack of concern that this could become a real thing.
Speaker 6 (39:42):
This is a story about how hard it can be
to stay on top.
Speaker 16 (39:45):
AI is something that wasn't in their DNA.
Speaker 18 (39:48):
Continued failure doesn't just hurt Siri, it could threaten the
iPhone's dominance. The product line accounts for more than half
of Apple's revenue, so missteps with what's become its most
non noticeable missing features could be devastating.
Speaker 19 (40:03):
We saw this for many decades. Nokia was at the
very top of the phone industry. Apple came out with
a much better mouse truck. BlackBerry was at the top
of the industry.
Speaker 9 (40:12):
Apple came out.
Speaker 19 (40:13):
With the better mouse truck. They are going to be
in danger of the next Apple being created if they
don't get their act together soon with some serious acquisitions
changes in partnerships.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
You can catch the full episode at Bloomberg dot com,
on YouTube or on the terminal. Two Wall Street bulls,
Tom Lee and Dan Ives are going against the grain
of Wall Street, leveraging social media to bring in fresh
inflows and outperformance in their ETFs. For more, Bloomberg Cross
(40:43):
asset reporter Isabelle Lee joins us this is one of
the most read stories on the Bloomberg terminal and the website.
It's not surprising two characters megatech bulls, but they've launched
ETFs explain the basics what we need to know about
what they're up to.
Speaker 20 (40:58):
So these two hf stand out in a CE or
four four two hundred ETFs in the US because they
engineer a rare double performance, which is outperformance and flows.
Usually you're outperformed, but you don't see flows. Usually have flows,
but the performance isn't that. So both of them have
those two and the both of them also are really
this big figures. Tomlely has five hundred thousand followers on Twitter,
(41:19):
dan Ives has around two hundred thousand. So they go
straight to their retail investors, and they go straight to
them with their ideas and guess what these are. Retail
investors buy them up by the billions as well.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
Their ideas go straight to a potential retail and institutional investor.
And at the same time, say dan Ives comes on
this show as a buyside and sell side analyst. He's
coming on and trying to say I'm independent and my
view is that these companies are going to go higher
and he does think they're all going to go high.
Speaker 6 (41:50):
He's a permeable. But what if we start to question evaluations.
What if at some point.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
He goes negative on the idea of certain stocks. Does
that damage the ETF inflows?
Speaker 6 (41:59):
How does he remain independent in this way.
Speaker 20 (42:02):
That's a good point, Caroline, And this is a new trend.
We're seeing that these prominent figures are launching their own ETF.
So both Tom Lee and Danives have their own really
strong base because of their research. They both just send
out researchers every day. You get their notes multiple times
a day if you pay as a client. And then
they thought, you know what, why not let me wrap
my ideas into this one big ETF so that my
followers or my now investors can just buy those ETFs.
Speaker 6 (42:24):
In one click.
Speaker 20 (42:25):
And that's a beautiful ets and one click you can
really just purchase them. But to your point, that is
true because followers are loyal to them, they listen to
their every call.
Speaker 6 (42:33):
But what if they now it's the question of.
Speaker 20 (42:36):
Whether there's going to be some self interest that remains
to be c and I'm sure they practice fiduciary and
they're doing what's best for their clients, so.
Speaker 6 (42:42):
The rest of their interests.
Speaker 20 (42:43):
But then it's really interesting because these big name launches
from Rubini also he launches own ETFs, even Gmo. Even
Rick Reader who's now in contention to Fetchir, he has
his own ETF. So it's really a new wave. And
I think not all famous people when they launch their
own ETFs, not all of them gain traction. For them
at least it's doing well.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
They are their own personal brands. Hopefully that's thrups some
picks real quick. But dan Ives is charismatic. Just explain
to those that don't know what he's like.
Speaker 20 (43:10):
Where do we begin with Danas every quart he has
this quotable. He wears these colorful clothes. He's always in
a cap. Everyone is in black and white, and he's
just really this big, red, colorful figure. Tomley is the same.
They make this big, audacious bets and it really is
a SoundBite that you've'll forever listened to.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
Interesting mean, they both recently become chairs of digital asset
treasury companies as well, so they seem to be in
sync on certain areas of the market. Bloomberg's is Abelli
great reporting and great story. Go read it that does
it from this edition at Blomberg tech Head.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Yeah, don't forget to check out the podcast. You know
where to find it.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
It's on the Bloomberg terminal, it's online, it's on Apple,
it's on Spotify, and it's on iHeart. What a week
it's been from San Francisco and New York City.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
It's Bloomberg
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