January 7, 2025 • 36 mins
Bloomberg's Caroline Hyde dives into Nvidia as the company announces new graphics cards at CES, and Ed Ludlow sits down with CEO Jensen Huang. Plus, Meta dials back on fact-checking across its platforms, and some of China's tech giants get added to the US's military blacklist.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
From the heart of where innovation, money and power collide
in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with
Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Live from New York. This is BlueBag Technology coming up.
In Vidia takes center stage at CES with new hardware,
software and services. For the stock falls, We sit down
with it's CEO, Jas and Wang. Later this hour plus,
Metad cuts its team of fact checkers, saying content moderation
went quote too far, and the US places some of
China's biggest tech giants on its military blacklist. But first
(00:50):
we check in on the key stop. You have to
watch today. It is the most valuable three point six
trillion dollars and it dies by four and a half percent,
in Vidia losing its pre market gains. We had touched
a new record high and now we sink the worst
days at September. Why we got a whole raft of products,
whether it's hardware, software, services, whether it's the future of
(01:10):
robotics from autonomous driving, from PCs and gaming. But is
it the here and now, the Blackwell program and platform
that we don't get enough detail on. Let's head out
to Las Vegas. Big story, of course, is in Vidio
and the CEO in veiling these products, we've got none
other than a key focus on the gamer, the original
(01:31):
customer from Jensen Wang. Have a listen.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
We used g force to enable artificial intelligence, and now
artificial intelligence is revolutionizing g Force everyone. Today we're announcing
our next generation, the RTX Blackwell family.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Let's go to our gamer in residence, Ed Ludlow on
the ground at CES. There was going back to their roots,
the GPU for the gamer. There was so much much more,
but the stock doesn't like it.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Yeah, I mean, we've become so accustomed to the nvidious
story of being dominant in a market for high performance
GPUs that go into data centers and train AI models,
foundation models. But it isn't going back to its roots story, right.
It's taken the work that it's done on those AI
accelerators and put them into a factor that is more
(02:24):
relevant to the consumer developers in particular, and maybe the
market this morning doesn't quite understand that story. There was
plenty of big picture last night from Jensen One. Blackwell
is in full production, a kind of timeline or a
move into physical AI, which we'll get into robotics autonomous driving.
But maybe also a conversation to be had around diversifying revenue.
(02:46):
One hundred billion dollars of revenue is still data centerships,
but increasingly those high performance graphics cards that go into
the desktop laptops and something called project digits.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
There's a lot to discuss.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
That PC or on the three thousand dollars PC for
AI developers. And look, there is a macro context to
the share move today. We of course got some ism data,
we got yield spiking higher, and no wonder some of
the big tech names arounder pressure. What's interesting is some
of the suppliers, for example a Micron still leading the
charge here as its memory is going to be within
the Nvidia offering. There was a lot to be had
(03:20):
for some of the partnerships to play.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Yeah, and as you know, Caro, it's Bloomberg's policy not
to give questions an advance of interview, and there are
all these Nvidia.
Speaker 6 (03:30):
Staff over my shoulder.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
But probably the one big question is the sustainability of
the investment into AI. Those other chip names are pushing
higher because when an investment is made into a high
performance GPU, it goes in combination with the memory chips,
other CPUs and all of the telematics from those other providers.
That probably is the key question for Jensen, particularly in
(03:52):
a year where things run certain economically and I see
a bit of a concern about inflation in the market
this morning.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
Jensen has a lot of world views.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Whether he'll talk to me about inflation, we'll have to
wait and see.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
At Ludlow, we cannot wait for the conversation. We'll see
you a little bit later. Let's get an investor's take
on the here and now lack of visibility on Blackwell
or or indeed the future proofing of the business model.
Cebi's Investment Advisory Services CIO Anna Rathbun.
Speaker 7 (04:19):
We tuned in.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
At six thirty Pacific time as nine thirty pm New
York time. When we heard Jensen on stage, what did
you make you? In line with some of these analysts
who are out there saying, look not enough on the
Blackwell platform.
Speaker 8 (04:33):
Yeah, there weren't that many details that investors were hoping for.
But if you have to talk for ninety minutes plus
almost two hours, I'm not sure if you can fill
those that timeline with a lot of details about the business.
Speaker 7 (04:46):
And plus you know he's kicking.
Speaker 8 (04:47):
Off a conference, you sort of want to be a
visionary and there is this a little slab of romanticism
about AI thrown in there, So you know, I think
maybe it was the wrong platform to really wait for
some of those details. But I know that the excitement
was built into the stock market certainly yesterday, so I
can understand the disappointment. But at the same time, maybe
(05:08):
maybe we need to wait for the earnings report.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And we're currently showing a five day shot of in video,
which gives us the context. It is ratherly eleven percent
in January. We're maybe seeing some profit being taken off
the table a little bit, hair Ona, But what did
you make of what it means for its mote, for
its ultimate leadership and technology? Does AMD do others even stand.
Speaker 6 (05:28):
A chance here?
Speaker 8 (05:30):
Well, you know, I think the leadership part of the
visionary talk was establishing that leadership. I think in Video
wants to be a leader and wants to continue to
be a leader. So you're taking things like you know,
self driving cars and partnership with Toyota and media attach.
Speaker 7 (05:46):
Those are real things that can turn into cash flow.
Speaker 8 (05:49):
But then you know, you have visionary things like humanoid
and chance gypt turning into you know, robotics, right, turning
into but robotics having a moment, right.
Speaker 7 (05:58):
So these are the things that.
Speaker 8 (05:59):
I think establish Nvidia, at least in rhetoric, as a
continued leader in the space. And whether or not AMDs
and other players can catch up.
Speaker 7 (06:11):
I do think that Nvidia still.
Speaker 8 (06:13):
Has a large, you know, sort of monopoly in the space.
The reality of catching up to Nvidia, I think is
still a difficult.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Feat and that's why i'mdphaps leaning into the PC side
of the business with its Dell announcement rather than trying
to talk up AI accelerate as in the data center part.
And to that point, are you feeling comfortable that we're
seeing diversification or at least that the demand for infrastructure
from a data center perspective is still there. Microsoft eighty
billion that they're going to spend in twenty twenty five
(06:41):
seems to signal.
Speaker 8 (06:42):
That, yeah, I don't think this AI venture is going
to stop. And certainly, you know, likes of Microsoft and
some of these big companies are putting big dollars into it.
But we can't forget about the private side either. There
are a lot of venture companies that are going to
require as their develop of being applications for real businesses
on the user end, they're going to have to lean
(07:05):
into some of that infrastructure like data centers and ultimately
energy too. But that's not a conversation for today. So
I think I think the demand for this is not
going to ease up.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Can you give us your macro perspective here though as well?
We were just talking how on a macro perspective, maybe
we are seeing that feed into the stock weakness. Do
you still your mind be thinking about inflationary pressure? Does
that have any weight on a company that just is
so in focus for its innovation, not just the macro headwinds.
Speaker 7 (07:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (07:36):
So you know, when I think about macro headwinds such
as inflation and prices, I think about who has the
pricing power?
Speaker 7 (07:42):
Right, So if you're in Nvidia and you.
Speaker 8 (07:44):
Have dominance in a marketplace, you have the pricing power.
So I don't think Nvidia is necessarily, you know, thinking
about whether or not they have they can pass down
any kind of inflation or price increases.
Speaker 7 (07:59):
I think it's really on the consumer end.
Speaker 8 (08:01):
I think it's on the end of the other max
evens that need to develop the R and D aspect
of it, they're going to have to worry about the
inflation portion.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Interesting. So for you, if you're looking at portfolio at
the start of twenty twenty five and you're thinking how
you're going to be changing up, do you make any
key decisions of the back of the latest inflation three points?
Speaker 8 (08:20):
You know, our assumption has always been that it's going
to be higher for longer, both on the inflation area
as well as rates.
Speaker 7 (08:28):
So our portfolio is already positioned for it.
Speaker 8 (08:30):
We never really thought that inflation could go down to
two percent it you know, I'm going to use the
word safely without causing some kind of a slowdown in
the economy. And frankly, even if it does, it's really
in the cyclical areas of the economy, and I think
tech has some immunity from that cyclicality simply because there's
just way too much momentum going into this AI venture.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
And raf fan so good to have you, CIOC BIZ
Investment Advisory Services stay well. Coming up, META looks back
on fact checking across its social media platforms or on that.
Next this is Bloomberg Technology. Yet more big news auta Meta.
(09:30):
Today it's announced that it will end third party fact
checking on its social media platforms, saying content moderation went
too far, so instead, the company will allow users to
comment on our post's accuracy, adopting a kind of format
similar to excess community notes. This, of course follows some
notable changes to its board as well. For more bloombergs
Lin Duine joins us for more fascinating moves. It's moving
(09:51):
safety and content moderation teams from California to Texas and
ultimately relying on its userbase now.
Speaker 9 (09:57):
It is very fascinating and obviously, as you said, further
aligns Meta to the x approach of content moderation and
fact checking, which is to sort of crowdsource. One cannot
ignore the underlying trend here. It's clear that over the
past several months, Mark Zuckerberg has tried to repair, if
(10:19):
you will, his relationship with president incoming President Donald Trump.
That has been a relationship that has in the past
been fairly adversarial. I don't need to remind you that
at one point Trump was suspended on Meta's platforms briefly
and has since been reinstated, and since then Zuckerberg has
(10:39):
personally contributed to his inauguration fund and has made efforts,
as you have said, to make appointments that would be
more conducive to a relationship with the Trump administration coming in.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I mean, it's interesting that this is basically the first
announcement coming from Jill Kaplan, who is now the chief
Global Affairs Officer as Clegg moved stage right. And we're
not only getting a more right leaning global affairs officer,
but we're also getting Dana White UFC coming to the
board of MATA.
Speaker 9 (11:10):
That's right, and as you probably recall, Dana White was
a very vocal Trump supporter. He was actually featured in
Trump's first video on TikTok, another social media platform. So
a good fit because you know, Dana White and Mark
Zuckerberg have a pre existing relationship.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
They for a long time.
Speaker 9 (11:30):
Right, They share a very strong interest in the same sport.
So in a lot of ways, it makes sense for
Mark and for what he's trying to do with that
relationship with Trump. I think that migration for the fact
checking team from California to Texas, as you mentioned, is
a really interesting one.
Speaker 6 (11:50):
Two.
Speaker 9 (11:50):
Whether that's politically motivated, I don't personally know, And I
think that the bigger question is, like will there be
a broader pullback at Meta and some of the other
social media platforms with this incoming Trump administration across all
content moderation, not necessarily just fact checking, but you know,
will there be a pullback in like the monitoring of
disturbing content CSM content. I think that's the broader question.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Ask and that leads us perfectly to our next conversation.
It's as if she knows it by Magic lindaan on
All Things Meta and look as metapairs back its fact
check is there's exclusive reporting today showing that the FBI
and the Department of Homeland Security will also scale back
efforts over the past two years to disrupt violent extremists
online activities. That's according to current and former US officials
and internet radicalization experts actually fear that the trend will
(12:37):
accelerate under Trump. That reporting all comes fro bloombergs Jeffstone
extraordinary timing. So you're working out here that basically demotment
of honand security and indeed other agencies have not wanted
to tip off the social media companies as much.
Speaker 10 (12:53):
That's right, Caroline, since the social media companies Meta being
one of them, formerly Twitter being one of them, had
a long history now of flagging false COVID related information
misinformation around the vaccines. There's been a lot of political
pushback in Washington encouraging them not to do that. The
Department of Homeland Security and the FBI have kind of
(13:14):
become collateral damage in that larger political fight, and they
are now incredibly reluctant and prevented in some cases by
law from dealing with social media firms to remove some
of this really incendiary violent misinformation.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yet this comes but days after the New Year's Day
attack on a Trump hotel, what happened in New Orleans.
I mean, the idea that extremist content isn't going to
be as monitored feels pretty scary, that's right.
Speaker 10 (13:47):
I mean, there's certainly a trend where we are seeing
these extremist attacks in almost every case. You know, it
used to be a small fraction, but now in almost
every case, the perpetrators or suspected perpetrators who are carrying
out if these attacks are often taught talking about them online,
whether it be on sites like Meta in this case
or on Discord as in the case with the mass
shooter in Buffalo. The FBI and DHS are still going
(14:10):
to continue to investigate based on some of those leads
that they're seeing online, but they're not going to interact
with social media companies to remove that content proactively. They're
going to leave that to the social media firms.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
What's interesting within your story, you really build out the
case that since so key court ruling here that as
you articulated, has pushed the DHS and the FBI, it's
less weighed in, but also there's less money going to
external third party researchers as well.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
Right, that's right.
Speaker 10 (14:38):
External third party researchers are a key component in this
larger ecosystem. They do a lot of the work on
behalf of social media companies to kind of proactively flag
and detect and remove some of this really again extremist,
violent material. It goes beyond a lot of misinformation. They
are now taking significantly less funding from the government because
(15:00):
of some of the political connotations and disputes around this. Specifically,
some of these researchers used to receive tens of millions
of dollars, whereas last year the Department of Homeland Security
gave them zero dollars for Internet related research exclusive reporting.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Jeff Stone, we thank you so much.
Speaker 6 (15:26):
Now.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
The US has just added China's most valuable company, Tencent,
as well as Tesla battery supply Caatl to its list
of quote Chinese military companies. It's a move which could
accelerate decoupling of the world's biggest economies.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
For more.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
We got to get out to Bloombergs Mike Shepard, and
this seemed to come out of nowhere yesterday, and even
Tencent itself thought it might be a mistake.
Speaker 11 (15:48):
And a lot of the other companies thought so too.
They were really caught off guard, as a lot of
us here in Washington were. It showed up without fanfare
in a publication known as the Federal Register. They Pentagon
just dropped it in there. But there was a purpose
to this. It dates back to twenty twenty when President
Donald Trump was still in office and under an executive
(16:08):
order from him, he asked the Defense Department to look
for companies in China that had ties or actual control
by China's military. And the concern is that this nexus
between China's military and the business community in China post
a risk to global security, and as a result, we
see this listening now. It's important to note that there
(16:31):
is no sanction attached to it. However, there is something
that would discourage US firms from doing business with anyone
who is on this list.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I think there was initially a worry that they might
be forced to delist as well, Mike, is there any
reality in that. Certainly ten Cent came out with a
statement saying this doesn't affect our business in the here
and now.
Speaker 11 (16:53):
That is a really good question, Caroly, and it was
one that we were chasing down yesterday. And as far
as we can tell, there is no immediate threat of
the listening directly as a result of this, but it
does prompt eight companies here, as I said, to revisit
and rethink relationships with ten Cent and others. And there
(17:13):
are now one hundred and twenty one Chinese companies on
this Pentagon list that subject them to some additional scrutiny
about their relationship with China's military, and the list also
includes CATL, which is one of the world's biggest battery makers.
They're critical to powering the electric vehicle revolution globally, but
(17:34):
they've also been the focus of a lot of attention,
especially from Congress, including incoming Secretary of State Mark or Rubio,
who when he was in the Senate had really zeroed
in on CATL as a potential national security risk through
the US.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
So read those tea leaves for US, Mike, because on
one side, my immediate reaction is, well, Coatl is a
big supply to Tesla, and you know, Mosk isn't going
to like that. He has the air of Trump for
all some purposes, we understand. But then Marco Rubio coming in,
he doesn't much like c ATL. So what does the
next administration mean for this?
Speaker 11 (18:08):
Well, the tea leaves really are tough to read here, Caroline,
and that's in part because we do see this kind.
Speaker 10 (18:13):
Of division of loyalties.
Speaker 11 (18:15):
This is also playing out with the TikTok band that
is about to go into effect on January nineteenth unless
the company, which has a Chinese parent, is able to
persuade the Supreme Court to overturn this devest or ban law.
Now President of Like Donald Trump, has made clear he
would like to see TikTok survive as its own entity,
(18:36):
to exist on its own and not be banned to
somehow evade this ultimate sanction as a result of a
new law. One also that Marco Rubio have helped push
through so we will see these kinds of tensions playing
out between some of the business interests, including from Elon
Musk and others, playing out right there in the White House.
(18:56):
They're trying to get tough on China, yet need also
this connection to China for business themselves.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
And as shocking is it might be for many that
a big gaming and social network platform Tencent might be
in any way deemed a military related organization. There is
also past tens We've seen Shaomi, for example, as a phonemaker,
but also now a carmaker is managed to get itself
off the list, right, So there's potential hope.
Speaker 11 (19:20):
Here, Yes, there is. These companies do have a way
to appeal this. They can even take it to court
and contest the listing, and a number of companies like
you just mentioned show Me especially, have been able to
get themselves removed and struck from the list. However, when
we talk about ten Cent, let's turn back the clock
again to twenty twenty, when Donald Trump as president initially
(19:44):
tried to ban TikTok, he also went after ten cents
we chat app, which is this all inclusive communications and
payments platform that the US government had viewed as a
risk in the US by anybody who was using it
here now there is not nearly as much use of
we chair here as by TikTok, but we do see
(20:05):
the same sort of argument being played out with tencent
back then and perhaps the echo of it now as well.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Mike Shepard, we thank you so much on all things
US China. We can go just onto data centers now
and get back to see yes where our own ed
Ludlow is standing by with a very special guest who's
probably going to benefit from that spending in the United States.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
D Yeah, Good morning from Las Vegas, Caroline and Jensen one,
CEO of Nvidia, fresh off his keynote last night on stage.
Speaker 6 (20:35):
Great to see you.
Speaker 5 (20:36):
Welcome to Las Vegas. Thank you every new year, familiar territory.
Speaker 6 (20:39):
Congratulations on your new baby.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
A lot's changed since we last spoke, actually, but of
the broad spectrum of what you announced last night. New
graphics cards, new chips actually technically in the automotive space,
products and services on the software side, which is the
single most important for in video's future.
Speaker 6 (20:59):
There are important you know.
Speaker 5 (21:00):
It's hard.
Speaker 6 (21:01):
It's it's hard. It's hard. It's hard to pick your favorites.
Speaker 12 (21:05):
You know, we announced three chips, We announced a brand
new AI, a world foundation model and first of its kind,
and we announced our work in three areas and robotics, right,
and they're all important. And you know the thing of course,
we announced a brand new Blackwell RTX and has a
(21:28):
new AI technology called neuro Neuroshaters, and we're combining artificial
intelligence and classical.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
Computers RTX and U RTX.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Yeah, we've become so accustomed to your story being dominant
in a market for high performance GPUs server ACS data centers.
This is going back to your roots. It's in the
desktop context. There's one right there later in the year laptop.
But for a target base that is developers, a nerdy,
hardcore gamment, what's the future of that business for you?
Speaker 6 (22:03):
Computer graphics is going to be here forever, forever.
Speaker 12 (22:06):
And what we've done is we've fused artificial intelligence and
computer graphics together. And the images that we're generating today
wouldn't be possible if not for the fact that we're
using computer graphics to create beautiful pixels and then use
artificial intelligence to amplify that capability. For example, out of
(22:27):
four frames I was talking about yesterday, thirty three million
pixels to SEW and four K.
Speaker 6 (22:32):
Now. Out of that thirty three.
Speaker 12 (22:33):
Million pixels, two million pixels were computed. The other thirty
one million pixels were generated by AI.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
In other words, the AI predicts what it thinks the
pixtels should.
Speaker 6 (22:42):
That's right, Yeah, the ultimate generator of AI.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
But what was interesting for me is the focus again
was away from the graphics cards, away from blackweld, undependents
and Cosmos. We probably don't have time to explain in
full detailed Cosmos, but you call it a world foundation.
Speaker 12 (22:58):
Model Cosmos is for or the physical world what chat
BT is for words and text.
Speaker 6 (23:05):
That's the easiest way to think about that.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Okay, so model text input, but can generate synthetic data
in multiple mediums.
Speaker 12 (23:14):
It understands the physical world. So for example, if I
ask it a question, if I ask it to generate
multiple futures of a car driving down the road, it
would understand the dynamics of the world, it would understand
the object permanence, it would under understand geometry and space,
(23:34):
and it would create a driving scenario for the car
that is plausible and so.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
And you open sourced it.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
So I don't really think about it as a product
or a go to market. It's more about what Cosmos enables.
Is that how we should think about it.
Speaker 12 (23:51):
Yeah, Well, the automous vehicle industry and the rovice industry
is a really point to us, and we offer three
computers for them.
Speaker 6 (23:58):
We offer it, of course, the training computer through DGX.
Speaker 12 (24:01):
Through DGX, the robotics computer that's inside the car or
inside of robot and now we have this new computer
call Omniverse with Cosmos that is the digital twin or
the playground where these robots can learn how to be robots.
And so if we could accelerate the development of an
artificial intelligence for avs and for robotics, it brings in
(24:23):
a lot of business for us.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Of course, there's an academic point of tension here. If
I may Elon Musk is a customer of yours and Tesla,
their theory or practice is based on real world data.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
Gathered through vision.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Yeah, does the synthetic data underpinning of Cosmos kind of
contradict that it.
Speaker 12 (24:40):
Doesn't replace it augments, And so you're going to you
should collect as much world data as you can. Of course,
collecting world data is very expensive and Elon has a
great advantage because the number one his AI factory for
his cars is fantastic, has a lot of video gear
in it. His av algorithms is incredible, it's the best
(25:01):
in the world. And he has a very large fleet
of cars on the road that allows him to collect.
Speaker 6 (25:07):
A lot of data.
Speaker 12 (25:08):
And so so I think he has just a phenomenal position.
And he's been working on this for a long time,
and so he's he's going to be in a great
position to take advantage of it.
Speaker 5 (25:16):
Well, may I ask you that's juncture.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
He's clearly influential in this upcoming administration, but he also
positions Tesla as a leading AI and robotics company.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
Yeah, how does that code for Nvidia?
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Elon Musk's influence the President Electrump and also thecoming administration's
kind of attitude towards AI.
Speaker 6 (25:36):
I don't know that the attitude towards AI.
Speaker 12 (25:40):
I know Elon's attitude towards AI, and and he's very
optimistic about his future.
Speaker 6 (25:44):
And obviously he's working on some of the most important
AI areas.
Speaker 12 (25:50):
XAI is working on foundation cognitive Intelligence AI, his Tesla
is working on Thomas vehicles, and optimists were humanoid robotics.
These three areas of AI are the three most important
areas of AI, and so I think he's working on
exactly the right things.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
You kind of positioned AI and video's position in the
supply chain for physical AI, robotics, autonomous driving.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
Explain it a bit more, the role you see in
video play.
Speaker 12 (26:20):
Well, we're a core technology company, and so we build
the foundational computing platforms.
Speaker 6 (26:25):
We're also full stack, and so we developed.
Speaker 12 (26:27):
The necessary algorithms and necessary AI technologies and.
Speaker 6 (26:31):
Then we put it.
Speaker 12 (26:32):
We put it out to the industry for them to
adopt it and turn it into in market solutions.
Speaker 6 (26:38):
We're computing platform companies.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
So you're on stage and you're surrounded by I think
a dozen humanoid robots, which.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
Is nice for you.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
When will I be here at CS and Las Vegas
and actually have there are some robots right now? In
real terms, you must have a timeline that you see
real world commercial deployment of the technology you outlined last night.
Speaker 12 (26:59):
It depends on use case, I would say first use. Yeah,
the first use case will probably be in manufacturing. You know,
there's estimates tends, if not one hundred million jobs that
are workers that are the world is short of workers
and aging population, declining, declining birth rates, and so I
(27:23):
think the world needs a lot more workers. Robotics is
one of the best ways for us to supplement all
of that and help companies recover the lost revenues on
the one hand and drive productivity which reduces inflation for
the world on the other hand. And so I think
robotics is going to be very important to that in
different different areas. You could have probably deploy into manufacturing
(27:46):
first because they obviously need it most.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Which you see is a ginormous potential market addressable lots.
Speaker 6 (27:52):
It's a fifty trillion dollar industry that wants to.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
Grow, and it thinks to grow. Sorry to interrupt you, Jensen.
I think that something that wool Street struggling with this morning,
among many things, is dg X. They understand the investment
there that trains the foundation models in terms of Nvidia's
business model what you outlined last night, Cosmos, and then
later on on the inference side, how physical AI helps
(28:18):
guare your business from the drives.
Speaker 5 (28:19):
D GX growth just simple as that.
Speaker 12 (28:21):
Yeah, as simple as that, I think if you if
you just look at simply like that, we have three computers,
and two of the computers d GX and Omniverse drives
an enormous amount of data that is necessary to train
the AI models right, and so Omniverse creates the data
that we then use to train AI models. The training
is what drives DGX sales. And the more robots that
(28:43):
are that are available, the more data we can create,
the more.
Speaker 6 (28:46):
AI models we have to we have to go train.
Speaker 12 (28:49):
That's that cycle is ultimately what we're striving for. All
of that drives consumption from data center growth.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
There is a surge in AI spending data center growth.
Some of our audience are a bit concerned about how
sustainable that is, short, medium, and long term.
Speaker 12 (29:07):
Well, at the limit, Artificial intelligence is a single most
important technology force of our time, and it's really about
we're at the beginning of that and in the future,
every single data center will be driven by AI and
the type of computing that we build today. And so
if you look at the world today, we're about a
(29:28):
year and a half into the remodeling, if you will,
the modernization, the reinvention of computing, and so I think
that over the next several years you're going to see
the transition from the old.
Speaker 6 (29:40):
Way of doing computing, general purpose computing. There's a new way.
Speaker 12 (29:43):
Of doing computing, artificial intelligence and accelerated computing, and so
we have a lot of growth to go do.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Let's go back to your and nvidious routes, and therein
lies the complication, right and the story accelerated computing. You
spent four years redefining the computer for me, and we
get rtx Blackwell single black Well in that form factor.
The target audience is hardcore gamers but also developers, and
(30:09):
I wondered if you could give me any early examples
or evidence of how you see the gaming industry adopting
your technology.
Speaker 12 (30:17):
Well, AI is going to reinvigorate the video game industry.
On the one hand, for developers, it's going to reduce
the cost of creating the content. On the other hand,
all of the characters that are in the games are
going to be smart characters in the future, so every
time you interact with them, they're going to be interacting
with you in a much more intelligent way. And so
(30:39):
the games are going to be more interesting, the characters
are going to be more interesting. The content development cost
is going to decline, and that's going to be really
great for the industry, and so I think that the
future is really bright for video games and these virtual
worlds and artificial intelligence is going to really reinvigorate it.
Speaker 5 (30:57):
Project digits, may I pick it up? Oh yeah, yeah,
three thousand dollars digits? Yeah, a supercomputer costing.
Speaker 12 (31:06):
Exactly How could you imagine you're just sitting there just
like that, You're working on your PC?
Speaker 5 (31:11):
Well, here, why would I need one of these? Probably
not me?
Speaker 4 (31:15):
But how big is the addressable market for this? What
is the addressable market?
Speaker 12 (31:20):
There are thirty million software developers. They're probably something along
the lines of ten million designers around the world. Probably
another twenty million creative artists. Hard to say exactly how
many students. I'm going to guess probably a couple one
hundred million students around the world.
Speaker 6 (31:40):
Everybody is going to have to board it.
Speaker 12 (31:41):
Everybody's going to have to Well, they can afford computers,
and so here's if they can afford computers and they
would like to have a companion that helps them do AI,
this is the way to do it.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
Can I just clarify something?
Speaker 6 (31:55):
Yeah? On it?
Speaker 4 (31:55):
I think you said on stage mac os, Linux and Windows.
Speaker 5 (32:00):
No, No, the location said just Linux, No.
Speaker 12 (32:03):
Whatever computer you use, you're literally enjoying how it's going
to be used. It's sitting right there and you'll just
connect to what wirelessly like it's at your personal cloud.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
I promised the audience I'd garify that because very excited.
Oh yeah, we're running short on time. President Electrump has
been speaking during the course of conversation. How imperative is
it that you go to mar A Lago and meet
with him? If Nvidia is America's leading AI company, and will.
Speaker 6 (32:29):
You I would be delighted to go see him. Have
you been invited?
Speaker 12 (32:32):
Not yet, but I would be delighted to go see
him and congratulate him and do everything we can to
help this administration succeed.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
A lot of what you outlined on stage last night
in the remophysical AI. You know, I saw x Pong,
for example, in the autonomous driving context that's happening in China,
like they are doing a lot on robotics.
Speaker 5 (32:53):
So I'm going to ask you about tariffs.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
You know, it's likely this coming administration will be as
restrictive on technology export and tarifs will be a function.
Speaker 5 (33:02):
How have you prepared for that? Jensen?
Speaker 12 (33:07):
Whatever the administration ultimately decides, will give them as much
insight as we can from our perspective, and I'm sure
that the administration will make the right moves that's the
best interest of our country.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
Twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
I kind of started the conversation by saying, a lot
has changed since we last spoke in the summer. You
said that the age of general robotics is just around
the corner. Is twenty twenty five the year of general
robotics or is that a little premature.
Speaker 6 (33:35):
To your mind?
Speaker 12 (33:36):
The development is going gangbusters, as you can see all
the different robots that are going to be around here,
and the enabling technology necessary for general robotics is coming together.
All the pieces are coming together. The industry still has
a lot of engineering to do. If you looked long term,
you know, pick your horizon in ten or twenty years,
(33:58):
the number of robots that's to be on Earth that's
going to be measured and probably tens of nine hundreds
and not potentially billions of robots, and so those days
are clearly coming. Is it going to happen in the
next couple of years or the next five years, hard
to say, but the development of robotics is going to
be all over the world now and we're seeing startup companies,
(34:19):
large companies, industrial companies, consumer electronics companies all getting involved
in the future of robotics. And our offering to the
industry is a three computer system. And so whether they're
developing the robot, training the robot, we have DJX systems
for them and DJX clouds for them. If they're simulating
the robots, we have omnivers for them, and if they
want to deploy them.
Speaker 6 (34:39):
When they're ready to deploy the robots, we have.
Speaker 12 (34:43):
Little computers that basically is the computer brain of the
robot that they can put inside the robot.
Speaker 6 (34:50):
And so we'll work with.
Speaker 12 (34:50):
The industry across the board from the development of the
robots to the deployment of the robot. And we have
computer systems for them, algorithms for them, ais for them,
and we'll partner with the industry and make this feature happen.
Speaker 6 (35:03):
Very very quick.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Which line of business grows fast? Is this year, data center,
gaming or other.
Speaker 6 (35:09):
They're all going to grow fast. I think gaming is
continuing to grow.
Speaker 12 (35:13):
Our automas vehicle business is already on its way to
be a five billion dollar business this year, and so
right and sometimes right run rate, and so the autonomous
vehicle business is just starting to get off the ground,
and that tells you something about how we address it.
And the reason for that is we get the benefit
from the beginning of the development of the AIS all
(35:35):
the way to the deployment of the cars. Because a
car company needs two factories, a car factory that builds
the cars and an AI factory that builds the AI
sport the cars, and both of these, both of these
areas we could participate.
Speaker 6 (35:49):
And so I think it's going to be a very
large business.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
Send I've made you late for your next appointment. Yeah,
it's crazy, literally grateful a few times. It's good to
see you as well. Jensen one, the Nvidia CEO.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Caroline, what a conversation, ed Ludlow live from Las Vegas.
So good to have you back. We'll let you go
and return to paternity leave from New York.
Speaker 6 (36:09):
This is blue Bag technology.
From the heart of where innovation, money and power collide
in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with
Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Live from New York. This is BlueBag Technology coming up.
In Vidia takes center stage at CES with new hardware,
software and services. For the stock falls, We sit down
with it's CEO, Jas and Wang. Later this hour plus,
Metad cuts its team of fact checkers, saying content moderation
went quote too far, and the US places some of
China's biggest tech giants on its military blacklist. But first
(00:50):
we check in on the key stop. You have to
watch today. It is the most valuable three point six
trillion dollars and it dies by four and a half percent,
in Vidia losing its pre market gains. We had touched
a new record high and now we sink the worst
days at September. Why we got a whole raft of products,
whether it's hardware, software, services, whether it's the future of
(01:10):
robotics from autonomous driving, from PCs and gaming. But is
it the here and now, the Blackwell program and platform
that we don't get enough detail on. Let's head out
to Las Vegas. Big story, of course, is in Vidio
and the CEO in veiling these products, we've got none
other than a key focus on the gamer, the original
(01:31):
customer from Jensen Wang. Have a listen.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
We used g force to enable artificial intelligence, and now
artificial intelligence is revolutionizing g Force everyone. Today we're announcing
our next generation, the RTX Blackwell family.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Let's go to our gamer in residence, Ed Ludlow on
the ground at CES. There was going back to their roots,
the GPU for the gamer. There was so much much more,
but the stock doesn't like it.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Yeah, I mean, we've become so accustomed to the nvidious
story of being dominant in a market for high performance
GPUs that go into data centers and train AI models,
foundation models. But it isn't going back to its roots story, right.
It's taken the work that it's done on those AI
accelerators and put them into a factor that is more
(02:24):
relevant to the consumer developers in particular, and maybe the
market this morning doesn't quite understand that story. There was
plenty of big picture last night from Jensen One. Blackwell
is in full production, a kind of timeline or a
move into physical AI, which we'll get into robotics autonomous driving.
But maybe also a conversation to be had around diversifying revenue.
(02:46):
One hundred billion dollars of revenue is still data centerships,
but increasingly those high performance graphics cards that go into
the desktop laptops and something called project digits.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
There's a lot to discuss.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
That PC or on the three thousand dollars PC for
AI developers. And look, there is a macro context to
the share move today. We of course got some ism data,
we got yield spiking higher, and no wonder some of
the big tech names arounder pressure. What's interesting is some
of the suppliers, for example a Micron still leading the
charge here as its memory is going to be within
the Nvidia offering. There was a lot to be had
(03:20):
for some of the partnerships to play.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Yeah, and as you know, Caro, it's Bloomberg's policy not
to give questions an advance of interview, and there are
all these Nvidia.
Speaker 6 (03:30):
Staff over my shoulder.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
But probably the one big question is the sustainability of
the investment into AI. Those other chip names are pushing
higher because when an investment is made into a high
performance GPU, it goes in combination with the memory chips,
other CPUs and all of the telematics from those other providers.
That probably is the key question for Jensen, particularly in
(03:52):
a year where things run certain economically and I see
a bit of a concern about inflation in the market
this morning.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
Jensen has a lot of world views.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Whether he'll talk to me about inflation, we'll have to
wait and see.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
At Ludlow, we cannot wait for the conversation. We'll see
you a little bit later. Let's get an investor's take
on the here and now lack of visibility on Blackwell
or or indeed the future proofing of the business model.
Cebi's Investment Advisory Services CIO Anna Rathbun.
Speaker 7 (04:19):
We tuned in.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
At six thirty Pacific time as nine thirty pm New
York time. When we heard Jensen on stage, what did
you make you? In line with some of these analysts
who are out there saying, look not enough on the
Blackwell platform.
Speaker 8 (04:33):
Yeah, there weren't that many details that investors were hoping for.
But if you have to talk for ninety minutes plus
almost two hours, I'm not sure if you can fill
those that timeline with a lot of details about the business.
Speaker 7 (04:46):
And plus you know he's kicking.
Speaker 8 (04:47):
Off a conference, you sort of want to be a
visionary and there is this a little slab of romanticism
about AI thrown in there, So you know, I think
maybe it was the wrong platform to really wait for
some of those details. But I know that the excitement
was built into the stock market certainly yesterday, so I
can understand the disappointment. But at the same time, maybe
(05:08):
maybe we need to wait for the earnings report.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And we're currently showing a five day shot of in video,
which gives us the context. It is ratherly eleven percent
in January. We're maybe seeing some profit being taken off
the table a little bit, hair Ona, But what did
you make of what it means for its mote, for
its ultimate leadership and technology? Does AMD do others even stand.
Speaker 6 (05:28):
A chance here?
Speaker 8 (05:30):
Well, you know, I think the leadership part of the
visionary talk was establishing that leadership. I think in Video
wants to be a leader and wants to continue to
be a leader. So you're taking things like you know,
self driving cars and partnership with Toyota and media attach.
Speaker 7 (05:46):
Those are real things that can turn into cash flow.
Speaker 8 (05:49):
But then you know, you have visionary things like humanoid
and chance gypt turning into you know, robotics, right, turning
into but robotics having a moment, right.
Speaker 7 (05:58):
So these are the things that.
Speaker 8 (05:59):
I think establish Nvidia, at least in rhetoric, as a
continued leader in the space. And whether or not AMDs
and other players can catch up.
Speaker 7 (06:11):
I do think that Nvidia still.
Speaker 8 (06:13):
Has a large, you know, sort of monopoly in the space.
The reality of catching up to Nvidia, I think is
still a difficult.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Feat and that's why i'mdphaps leaning into the PC side
of the business with its Dell announcement rather than trying
to talk up AI accelerate as in the data center part.
And to that point, are you feeling comfortable that we're
seeing diversification or at least that the demand for infrastructure
from a data center perspective is still there. Microsoft eighty
billion that they're going to spend in twenty twenty five
(06:41):
seems to signal.
Speaker 8 (06:42):
That, yeah, I don't think this AI venture is going
to stop. And certainly, you know, likes of Microsoft and
some of these big companies are putting big dollars into it.
But we can't forget about the private side either. There
are a lot of venture companies that are going to
require as their develop of being applications for real businesses
on the user end, they're going to have to lean
(07:05):
into some of that infrastructure like data centers and ultimately
energy too. But that's not a conversation for today. So
I think I think the demand for this is not
going to ease up.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Can you give us your macro perspective here though as well?
We were just talking how on a macro perspective, maybe
we are seeing that feed into the stock weakness. Do
you still your mind be thinking about inflationary pressure? Does
that have any weight on a company that just is
so in focus for its innovation, not just the macro headwinds.
Speaker 7 (07:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (07:36):
So you know, when I think about macro headwinds such
as inflation and prices, I think about who has the
pricing power?
Speaker 7 (07:42):
Right, So if you're in Nvidia and you.
Speaker 8 (07:44):
Have dominance in a marketplace, you have the pricing power.
So I don't think Nvidia is necessarily, you know, thinking
about whether or not they have they can pass down
any kind of inflation or price increases.
Speaker 7 (07:59):
I think it's really on the consumer end.
Speaker 8 (08:01):
I think it's on the end of the other max
evens that need to develop the R and D aspect
of it, they're going to have to worry about the
inflation portion.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Interesting. So for you, if you're looking at portfolio at
the start of twenty twenty five and you're thinking how
you're going to be changing up, do you make any
key decisions of the back of the latest inflation three points?
Speaker 8 (08:20):
You know, our assumption has always been that it's going
to be higher for longer, both on the inflation area
as well as rates.
Speaker 7 (08:28):
So our portfolio is already positioned for it.
Speaker 8 (08:30):
We never really thought that inflation could go down to
two percent it you know, I'm going to use the
word safely without causing some kind of a slowdown in
the economy. And frankly, even if it does, it's really
in the cyclical areas of the economy, and I think
tech has some immunity from that cyclicality simply because there's
just way too much momentum going into this AI venture.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
And raf fan so good to have you, CIOC BIZ
Investment Advisory Services stay well. Coming up, META looks back
on fact checking across its social media platforms or on that.
Next this is Bloomberg Technology. Yet more big news auta Meta.
(09:30):
Today it's announced that it will end third party fact
checking on its social media platforms, saying content moderation went
too far, so instead, the company will allow users to
comment on our post's accuracy, adopting a kind of format
similar to excess community notes. This, of course follows some
notable changes to its board as well. For more bloombergs
Lin Duine joins us for more fascinating moves. It's moving
(09:51):
safety and content moderation teams from California to Texas and
ultimately relying on its userbase now.
Speaker 9 (09:57):
It is very fascinating and obviously, as you said, further
aligns Meta to the x approach of content moderation and
fact checking, which is to sort of crowdsource. One cannot
ignore the underlying trend here. It's clear that over the
past several months, Mark Zuckerberg has tried to repair, if
(10:19):
you will, his relationship with president incoming President Donald Trump.
That has been a relationship that has in the past
been fairly adversarial. I don't need to remind you that
at one point Trump was suspended on Meta's platforms briefly
and has since been reinstated, and since then Zuckerberg has
(10:39):
personally contributed to his inauguration fund and has made efforts,
as you have said, to make appointments that would be
more conducive to a relationship with the Trump administration coming in.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I mean, it's interesting that this is basically the first
announcement coming from Jill Kaplan, who is now the chief
Global Affairs Officer as Clegg moved stage right. And we're
not only getting a more right leaning global affairs officer,
but we're also getting Dana White UFC coming to the
board of MATA.
Speaker 9 (11:10):
That's right, and as you probably recall, Dana White was
a very vocal Trump supporter. He was actually featured in
Trump's first video on TikTok, another social media platform. So
a good fit because you know, Dana White and Mark
Zuckerberg have a pre existing relationship.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
They for a long time.
Speaker 9 (11:30):
Right, They share a very strong interest in the same sport.
So in a lot of ways, it makes sense for
Mark and for what he's trying to do with that
relationship with Trump. I think that migration for the fact
checking team from California to Texas, as you mentioned, is
a really interesting one.
Speaker 6 (11:50):
Two.
Speaker 9 (11:50):
Whether that's politically motivated, I don't personally know, And I
think that the bigger question is, like will there be
a broader pullback at Meta and some of the other
social media platforms with this incoming Trump administration across all
content moderation, not necessarily just fact checking, but you know,
will there be a pullback in like the monitoring of
disturbing content CSM content. I think that's the broader question.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Ask and that leads us perfectly to our next conversation.
It's as if she knows it by Magic lindaan on
All Things Meta and look as metapairs back its fact
check is there's exclusive reporting today showing that the FBI
and the Department of Homeland Security will also scale back
efforts over the past two years to disrupt violent extremists
online activities. That's according to current and former US officials
and internet radicalization experts actually fear that the trend will
(12:37):
accelerate under Trump. That reporting all comes fro bloombergs Jeffstone
extraordinary timing. So you're working out here that basically demotment
of honand security and indeed other agencies have not wanted
to tip off the social media companies as much.
Speaker 10 (12:53):
That's right, Caroline, since the social media companies Meta being
one of them, formerly Twitter being one of them, had
a long history now of flagging false COVID related information
misinformation around the vaccines. There's been a lot of political
pushback in Washington encouraging them not to do that. The
Department of Homeland Security and the FBI have kind of
(13:14):
become collateral damage in that larger political fight, and they
are now incredibly reluctant and prevented in some cases by
law from dealing with social media firms to remove some
of this really incendiary violent misinformation.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yet this comes but days after the New Year's Day
attack on a Trump hotel, what happened in New Orleans.
I mean, the idea that extremist content isn't going to
be as monitored feels pretty scary, that's right.
Speaker 10 (13:47):
I mean, there's certainly a trend where we are seeing
these extremist attacks in almost every case. You know, it
used to be a small fraction, but now in almost
every case, the perpetrators or suspected perpetrators who are carrying
out if these attacks are often taught talking about them online,
whether it be on sites like Meta in this case
or on Discord as in the case with the mass
shooter in Buffalo. The FBI and DHS are still going
(14:10):
to continue to investigate based on some of those leads
that they're seeing online, but they're not going to interact
with social media companies to remove that content proactively. They're
going to leave that to the social media firms.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
What's interesting within your story, you really build out the
case that since so key court ruling here that as
you articulated, has pushed the DHS and the FBI, it's
less weighed in, but also there's less money going to
external third party researchers as well.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
Right, that's right.
Speaker 10 (14:38):
External third party researchers are a key component in this
larger ecosystem. They do a lot of the work on
behalf of social media companies to kind of proactively flag
and detect and remove some of this really again extremist,
violent material. It goes beyond a lot of misinformation. They
are now taking significantly less funding from the government because
(15:00):
of some of the political connotations and disputes around this. Specifically,
some of these researchers used to receive tens of millions
of dollars, whereas last year the Department of Homeland Security
gave them zero dollars for Internet related research exclusive reporting.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Jeff Stone, we thank you so much.
Speaker 6 (15:26):
Now.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
The US has just added China's most valuable company, Tencent,
as well as Tesla battery supply Caatl to its list
of quote Chinese military companies. It's a move which could
accelerate decoupling of the world's biggest economies.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
For more.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
We got to get out to Bloombergs Mike Shepard, and
this seemed to come out of nowhere yesterday, and even
Tencent itself thought it might be a mistake.
Speaker 11 (15:48):
And a lot of the other companies thought so too.
They were really caught off guard, as a lot of
us here in Washington were. It showed up without fanfare
in a publication known as the Federal Register. They Pentagon
just dropped it in there. But there was a purpose
to this. It dates back to twenty twenty when President
Donald Trump was still in office and under an executive
(16:08):
order from him, he asked the Defense Department to look
for companies in China that had ties or actual control
by China's military. And the concern is that this nexus
between China's military and the business community in China post
a risk to global security, and as a result, we
see this listening now. It's important to note that there
(16:31):
is no sanction attached to it. However, there is something
that would discourage US firms from doing business with anyone
who is on this list.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I think there was initially a worry that they might
be forced to delist as well, Mike, is there any
reality in that. Certainly ten Cent came out with a
statement saying this doesn't affect our business in the here
and now.
Speaker 11 (16:53):
That is a really good question, Caroly, and it was
one that we were chasing down yesterday. And as far
as we can tell, there is no immediate threat of
the listening directly as a result of this, but it
does prompt eight companies here, as I said, to revisit
and rethink relationships with ten Cent and others. And there
(17:13):
are now one hundred and twenty one Chinese companies on
this Pentagon list that subject them to some additional scrutiny
about their relationship with China's military, and the list also
includes CATL, which is one of the world's biggest battery makers.
They're critical to powering the electric vehicle revolution globally, but
(17:34):
they've also been the focus of a lot of attention,
especially from Congress, including incoming Secretary of State Mark or Rubio,
who when he was in the Senate had really zeroed
in on CATL as a potential national security risk through
the US.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
So read those tea leaves for US, Mike, because on
one side, my immediate reaction is, well, Coatl is a
big supply to Tesla, and you know, Mosk isn't going
to like that. He has the air of Trump for
all some purposes, we understand. But then Marco Rubio coming in,
he doesn't much like c ATL. So what does the
next administration mean for this?
Speaker 11 (18:08):
Well, the tea leaves really are tough to read here, Caroline,
and that's in part because we do see this kind.
Speaker 10 (18:13):
Of division of loyalties.
Speaker 11 (18:15):
This is also playing out with the TikTok band that
is about to go into effect on January nineteenth unless
the company, which has a Chinese parent, is able to
persuade the Supreme Court to overturn this devest or ban law.
Now President of Like Donald Trump, has made clear he
would like to see TikTok survive as its own entity,
(18:36):
to exist on its own and not be banned to
somehow evade this ultimate sanction as a result of a
new law. One also that Marco Rubio have helped push
through so we will see these kinds of tensions playing
out between some of the business interests, including from Elon
Musk and others, playing out right there in the White House.
(18:56):
They're trying to get tough on China, yet need also
this connection to China for business themselves.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
And as shocking is it might be for many that
a big gaming and social network platform Tencent might be
in any way deemed a military related organization. There is
also past tens We've seen Shaomi, for example, as a phonemaker,
but also now a carmaker is managed to get itself
off the list, right, So there's potential hope.
Speaker 11 (19:20):
Here, Yes, there is. These companies do have a way
to appeal this. They can even take it to court
and contest the listing, and a number of companies like
you just mentioned show Me especially, have been able to
get themselves removed and struck from the list. However, when
we talk about ten Cent, let's turn back the clock
again to twenty twenty, when Donald Trump as president initially
(19:44):
tried to ban TikTok, he also went after ten cents
we chat app, which is this all inclusive communications and
payments platform that the US government had viewed as a
risk in the US by anybody who was using it
here now there is not nearly as much use of
we chair here as by TikTok, but we do see
(20:05):
the same sort of argument being played out with tencent
back then and perhaps the echo of it now as well.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Mike Shepard, we thank you so much on all things
US China. We can go just onto data centers now
and get back to see yes where our own ed
Ludlow is standing by with a very special guest who's
probably going to benefit from that spending in the United States.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
D Yeah, Good morning from Las Vegas, Caroline and Jensen one,
CEO of Nvidia, fresh off his keynote last night on stage.
Speaker 6 (20:35):
Great to see you.
Speaker 5 (20:36):
Welcome to Las Vegas. Thank you every new year, familiar territory.
Speaker 6 (20:39):
Congratulations on your new baby.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
A lot's changed since we last spoke, actually, but of
the broad spectrum of what you announced last night. New
graphics cards, new chips actually technically in the automotive space,
products and services on the software side, which is the
single most important for in video's future.
Speaker 6 (20:59):
There are important you know.
Speaker 5 (21:00):
It's hard.
Speaker 6 (21:01):
It's it's hard. It's hard. It's hard to pick your favorites.
Speaker 12 (21:05):
You know, we announced three chips, We announced a brand
new AI, a world foundation model and first of its kind,
and we announced our work in three areas and robotics, right,
and they're all important. And you know the thing of course,
we announced a brand new Blackwell RTX and has a
(21:28):
new AI technology called neuro Neuroshaters, and we're combining artificial
intelligence and classical.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
Computers RTX and U RTX.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Yeah, we've become so accustomed to your story being dominant
in a market for high performance GPUs server ACS data centers.
This is going back to your roots. It's in the
desktop context. There's one right there later in the year laptop.
But for a target base that is developers, a nerdy,
hardcore gamment, what's the future of that business for you?
Speaker 6 (22:03):
Computer graphics is going to be here forever, forever.
Speaker 12 (22:06):
And what we've done is we've fused artificial intelligence and
computer graphics together. And the images that we're generating today
wouldn't be possible if not for the fact that we're
using computer graphics to create beautiful pixels and then use
artificial intelligence to amplify that capability. For example, out of
(22:27):
four frames I was talking about yesterday, thirty three million
pixels to SEW and four K.
Speaker 6 (22:32):
Now. Out of that thirty three.
Speaker 12 (22:33):
Million pixels, two million pixels were computed. The other thirty
one million pixels were generated by AI.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
In other words, the AI predicts what it thinks the
pixtels should.
Speaker 6 (22:42):
That's right, Yeah, the ultimate generator of AI.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
But what was interesting for me is the focus again
was away from the graphics cards, away from blackweld, undependents
and Cosmos. We probably don't have time to explain in
full detailed Cosmos, but you call it a world foundation.
Speaker 12 (22:58):
Model Cosmos is for or the physical world what chat
BT is for words and text.
Speaker 6 (23:05):
That's the easiest way to think about that.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Okay, so model text input, but can generate synthetic data
in multiple mediums.
Speaker 12 (23:14):
It understands the physical world. So for example, if I
ask it a question, if I ask it to generate
multiple futures of a car driving down the road, it
would understand the dynamics of the world, it would understand
the object permanence, it would under understand geometry and space,
(23:34):
and it would create a driving scenario for the car
that is plausible and so.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
And you open sourced it.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
So I don't really think about it as a product
or a go to market. It's more about what Cosmos enables.
Is that how we should think about it.
Speaker 12 (23:51):
Yeah, Well, the automous vehicle industry and the rovice industry
is a really point to us, and we offer three
computers for them.
Speaker 6 (23:58):
We offer it, of course, the training computer through DGX.
Speaker 12 (24:01):
Through DGX, the robotics computer that's inside the car or
inside of robot and now we have this new computer
call Omniverse with Cosmos that is the digital twin or
the playground where these robots can learn how to be robots.
And so if we could accelerate the development of an
artificial intelligence for avs and for robotics, it brings in
(24:23):
a lot of business for us.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Of course, there's an academic point of tension here. If
I may Elon Musk is a customer of yours and Tesla,
their theory or practice is based on real world data.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
Gathered through vision.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Yeah, does the synthetic data underpinning of Cosmos kind of
contradict that it.
Speaker 12 (24:40):
Doesn't replace it augments, And so you're going to you
should collect as much world data as you can. Of course,
collecting world data is very expensive and Elon has a
great advantage because the number one his AI factory for
his cars is fantastic, has a lot of video gear
in it. His av algorithms is incredible, it's the best
(25:01):
in the world. And he has a very large fleet
of cars on the road that allows him to collect.
Speaker 6 (25:07):
A lot of data.
Speaker 12 (25:08):
And so so I think he has just a phenomenal position.
And he's been working on this for a long time,
and so he's he's going to be in a great
position to take advantage of it.
Speaker 5 (25:16):
Well, may I ask you that's juncture.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
He's clearly influential in this upcoming administration, but he also
positions Tesla as a leading AI and robotics company.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
Yeah, how does that code for Nvidia?
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Elon Musk's influence the President Electrump and also thecoming administration's
kind of attitude towards AI.
Speaker 6 (25:36):
I don't know that the attitude towards AI.
Speaker 12 (25:40):
I know Elon's attitude towards AI, and and he's very
optimistic about his future.
Speaker 6 (25:44):
And obviously he's working on some of the most important
AI areas.
Speaker 12 (25:50):
XAI is working on foundation cognitive Intelligence AI, his Tesla
is working on Thomas vehicles, and optimists were humanoid robotics.
These three areas of AI are the three most important
areas of AI, and so I think he's working on
exactly the right things.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
You kind of positioned AI and video's position in the
supply chain for physical AI, robotics, autonomous driving.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
Explain it a bit more, the role you see in
video play.
Speaker 12 (26:20):
Well, we're a core technology company, and so we build
the foundational computing platforms.
Speaker 6 (26:25):
We're also full stack, and so we developed.
Speaker 12 (26:27):
The necessary algorithms and necessary AI technologies and.
Speaker 6 (26:31):
Then we put it.
Speaker 12 (26:32):
We put it out to the industry for them to
adopt it and turn it into in market solutions.
Speaker 6 (26:38):
We're computing platform companies.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
So you're on stage and you're surrounded by I think
a dozen humanoid robots, which.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
Is nice for you.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
When will I be here at CS and Las Vegas
and actually have there are some robots right now? In
real terms, you must have a timeline that you see
real world commercial deployment of the technology you outlined last night.
Speaker 12 (26:59):
It depends on use case, I would say first use. Yeah,
the first use case will probably be in manufacturing. You know,
there's estimates tends, if not one hundred million jobs that
are workers that are the world is short of workers
and aging population, declining, declining birth rates, and so I
(27:23):
think the world needs a lot more workers. Robotics is
one of the best ways for us to supplement all
of that and help companies recover the lost revenues on
the one hand and drive productivity which reduces inflation for
the world on the other hand. And so I think
robotics is going to be very important to that in
different different areas. You could have probably deploy into manufacturing
(27:46):
first because they obviously need it most.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Which you see is a ginormous potential market addressable lots.
Speaker 6 (27:52):
It's a fifty trillion dollar industry that wants to.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
Grow, and it thinks to grow. Sorry to interrupt you, Jensen.
I think that something that wool Street struggling with this morning,
among many things, is dg X. They understand the investment
there that trains the foundation models in terms of Nvidia's
business model what you outlined last night, Cosmos, and then
later on on the inference side, how physical AI helps
(28:18):
guare your business from the drives.
Speaker 5 (28:19):
D GX growth just simple as that.
Speaker 12 (28:21):
Yeah, as simple as that, I think if you if
you just look at simply like that, we have three computers,
and two of the computers d GX and Omniverse drives
an enormous amount of data that is necessary to train
the AI models right, and so Omniverse creates the data
that we then use to train AI models. The training
is what drives DGX sales. And the more robots that
(28:43):
are that are available, the more data we can create,
the more.
Speaker 6 (28:46):
AI models we have to we have to go train.
Speaker 12 (28:49):
That's that cycle is ultimately what we're striving for. All
of that drives consumption from data center growth.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
There is a surge in AI spending data center growth.
Some of our audience are a bit concerned about how
sustainable that is, short, medium, and long term.
Speaker 12 (29:07):
Well, at the limit, Artificial intelligence is a single most
important technology force of our time, and it's really about
we're at the beginning of that and in the future,
every single data center will be driven by AI and
the type of computing that we build today. And so
if you look at the world today, we're about a
(29:28):
year and a half into the remodeling, if you will,
the modernization, the reinvention of computing, and so I think
that over the next several years you're going to see
the transition from the old.
Speaker 6 (29:40):
Way of doing computing, general purpose computing. There's a new way.
Speaker 12 (29:43):
Of doing computing, artificial intelligence and accelerated computing, and so
we have a lot of growth to go do.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Let's go back to your and nvidious routes, and therein
lies the complication, right and the story accelerated computing. You
spent four years redefining the computer for me, and we
get rtx Blackwell single black Well in that form factor.
The target audience is hardcore gamers but also developers, and
(30:09):
I wondered if you could give me any early examples
or evidence of how you see the gaming industry adopting
your technology.
Speaker 12 (30:17):
Well, AI is going to reinvigorate the video game industry.
On the one hand, for developers, it's going to reduce
the cost of creating the content. On the other hand,
all of the characters that are in the games are
going to be smart characters in the future, so every
time you interact with them, they're going to be interacting
with you in a much more intelligent way. And so
(30:39):
the games are going to be more interesting, the characters
are going to be more interesting. The content development cost
is going to decline, and that's going to be really
great for the industry, and so I think that the
future is really bright for video games and these virtual
worlds and artificial intelligence is going to really reinvigorate it.
Speaker 5 (30:57):
Project digits, may I pick it up? Oh yeah, yeah,
three thousand dollars digits? Yeah, a supercomputer costing.
Speaker 12 (31:06):
Exactly How could you imagine you're just sitting there just
like that, You're working on your PC?
Speaker 5 (31:11):
Well, here, why would I need one of these? Probably
not me?
Speaker 4 (31:15):
But how big is the addressable market for this? What
is the addressable market?
Speaker 12 (31:20):
There are thirty million software developers. They're probably something along
the lines of ten million designers around the world. Probably
another twenty million creative artists. Hard to say exactly how
many students. I'm going to guess probably a couple one
hundred million students around the world.
Speaker 6 (31:40):
Everybody is going to have to board it.
Speaker 12 (31:41):
Everybody's going to have to Well, they can afford computers,
and so here's if they can afford computers and they
would like to have a companion that helps them do AI,
this is the way to do it.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
Can I just clarify something?
Speaker 6 (31:55):
Yeah? On it?
Speaker 4 (31:55):
I think you said on stage mac os, Linux and Windows.
Speaker 5 (32:00):
No, No, the location said just Linux, No.
Speaker 12 (32:03):
Whatever computer you use, you're literally enjoying how it's going
to be used. It's sitting right there and you'll just
connect to what wirelessly like it's at your personal cloud.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
I promised the audience I'd garify that because very excited.
Oh yeah, we're running short on time. President Electrump has
been speaking during the course of conversation. How imperative is
it that you go to mar A Lago and meet
with him? If Nvidia is America's leading AI company, and will.
Speaker 6 (32:29):
You I would be delighted to go see him. Have
you been invited?
Speaker 12 (32:32):
Not yet, but I would be delighted to go see
him and congratulate him and do everything we can to
help this administration succeed.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
A lot of what you outlined on stage last night
in the remophysical AI. You know, I saw x Pong,
for example, in the autonomous driving context that's happening in China,
like they are doing a lot on robotics.
Speaker 5 (32:53):
So I'm going to ask you about tariffs.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
You know, it's likely this coming administration will be as
restrictive on technology export and tarifs will be a function.
Speaker 5 (33:02):
How have you prepared for that? Jensen?
Speaker 12 (33:07):
Whatever the administration ultimately decides, will give them as much
insight as we can from our perspective, and I'm sure
that the administration will make the right moves that's the
best interest of our country.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
Twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
I kind of started the conversation by saying, a lot
has changed since we last spoke in the summer. You
said that the age of general robotics is just around
the corner. Is twenty twenty five the year of general
robotics or is that a little premature.
Speaker 6 (33:35):
To your mind?
Speaker 12 (33:36):
The development is going gangbusters, as you can see all
the different robots that are going to be around here,
and the enabling technology necessary for general robotics is coming together.
All the pieces are coming together. The industry still has
a lot of engineering to do. If you looked long term,
you know, pick your horizon in ten or twenty years,
(33:58):
the number of robots that's to be on Earth that's
going to be measured and probably tens of nine hundreds
and not potentially billions of robots, and so those days
are clearly coming. Is it going to happen in the
next couple of years or the next five years, hard
to say, but the development of robotics is going to
be all over the world now and we're seeing startup companies,
(34:19):
large companies, industrial companies, consumer electronics companies all getting involved
in the future of robotics. And our offering to the
industry is a three computer system. And so whether they're
developing the robot, training the robot, we have DJX systems
for them and DJX clouds for them. If they're simulating
the robots, we have omnivers for them, and if they
want to deploy them.
Speaker 6 (34:39):
When they're ready to deploy the robots, we have.
Speaker 12 (34:43):
Little computers that basically is the computer brain of the
robot that they can put inside the robot.
Speaker 6 (34:50):
And so we'll work with.
Speaker 12 (34:50):
The industry across the board from the development of the
robots to the deployment of the robot. And we have
computer systems for them, algorithms for them, ais for them,
and we'll partner with the industry and make this feature happen.
Speaker 6 (35:03):
Very very quick.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Which line of business grows fast? Is this year, data center,
gaming or other.
Speaker 6 (35:09):
They're all going to grow fast. I think gaming is
continuing to grow.
Speaker 12 (35:13):
Our automas vehicle business is already on its way to
be a five billion dollar business this year, and so
right and sometimes right run rate, and so the autonomous
vehicle business is just starting to get off the ground,
and that tells you something about how we address it.
And the reason for that is we get the benefit
from the beginning of the development of the AIS all
(35:35):
the way to the deployment of the cars. Because a
car company needs two factories, a car factory that builds
the cars and an AI factory that builds the AI
sport the cars, and both of these, both of these
areas we could participate.
Speaker 6 (35:49):
And so I think it's going to be a very
large business.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
Send I've made you late for your next appointment. Yeah,
it's crazy, literally grateful a few times. It's good to
see you as well. Jensen one, the Nvidia CEO.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Caroline, what a conversation, ed Ludlow live from Las Vegas.
So good to have you back. We'll let you go
and return to paternity leave from New York.
Speaker 6 (36:09):
This is blue Bag technology.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.