May 13, 2025 • 14 mins
Chancellor of the Exchequer Rachel Reeves signed a deal with Britain's biggest pension funds to channel more investment into the domestic economy. The Mansion House Accord will push the sector to invest at least 10% of their funds into private markets by the end of the decade. So, for a special podcast, we went to the signing ceremony to interview the Chancellor about the plan, and the wider UK economy. Hosted by Lizzy Burden and James Woolcock.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
You're listening to Bloomberg UK Politics.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
I'm Lizzie Burden and I'm James Wilcock and it's Tuesday,
which means it's a special podcast. James and I have
just hot footed it over from near the Tower of London.
We had a beautiful view of it and we were
just in a room with the UK Chancellor of the Exchequer,
Rachel Reeves, and seventeen pension fund CEOs signing not us
them a new version of the Mansion House Accord.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Well it doesn't happen every day, is he Yeah. The
most important thing it doesn't happen every day was that
it was sunny in London. And the second thing that
doesn't happen every day is you get to interview the
chance of the Exchequer us.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
It was a great opportunity to talk through this latest development.
So you remember back in twenty twenty three Jeremy Hunt
when he was the Conservative Chancellor signed the Mansion House Compact. Well,
Rachel Reeves is built on that today with the Mansion
House Accord. So you've got seventeen pension funds for lunteering
to invest at least ten percent in private markets by
(01:03):
twenty thirty, and five percent will be allocated to the UK.
We started by talking about that fundamental conflict in this
policy between maximizing returns for pension funds and boosting UK
economic growth.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Well, we do need to achieve both, and we improve
returns for savers in the UK. And I know that
people are every month that save for their pension making
big sacrifices in doing that, and I want them to
know that they're getting the very best return on that money,
which means a more diversified portfolio, including investing in fast
(01:38):
growing businesses and also in infrastructure. And what's welcome today
is that at seventeen companies representing ninety percent of active
pension savers have signed this accord, which means that now
ten percent of what they invest will be in these
private assets, and for the first time ever a proportion
(02:00):
of those half of those or be in UK assets.
That's good for the UK economy, more money into the
UK economy, but it's also good for savers.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
So if your confidence is good for savers and for
the economy, why not mandate these pension funds to invest
in UK assets.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
We don't need to mandate them if people are willing
to sign a voluntary accord, and today we've shown that
that is possible, with seventeen businesses representing ninety percent of
active savers signing up voluntarily to this because they know
that it is in the interests of the savers whose
money they invest.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
The challenge up until.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Now has been that no company wants to go first,
and so this coordination, that's the role that government can
play and the work that myself and our Pensions Minister
Torsten Bell have done is to bring the industry together
in a way that hasn't been achieved before, to ensure
that the market will move together and send a very
clear signal that the best way to deliver for savers
(02:57):
is to have a more diversified portfolio.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And if they don't comply, because a one year of
view of the original Mansion House Compact showed only limited
progress in terms of assets invested, is there a point
at which you would mandate pension funds to invest in
UK projects.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
I'm never going to say never, but I don't think
it's necessary because what we saw today was as seventeen
pension funds representing the vast proportion of pension savers in
the UK deciding voluntarily to do this, and what they
wanted was a government that was willing to corral and
bring together the industry to ensure that they can best
(03:36):
ensure that their savers, their customers are better served. And
so I'm really pleased with what we've been able to do.
It shows that you don't need to use mandation if
you can work together, have that compelling argument. And also
crucially in this is so important have the pipeline of
investments because another thing that pension funds have said to
(03:57):
me is would love to invest more in private assets.
Speaker 5 (04:00):
I'd love to invest in infrastructure if we.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Had that pipeline of projects, and that's what our ten
year Infrastructure plan will enable. There's a number of investable projects,
whether that's the Lower teens crossing, whether it is investment
at Heathrow or Houston Station, or projects around the country
from a rail in the North to gigafactories. There's so
(04:24):
many investments that can be made that gives them that.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Why focus on private markets when the London public market
needs such help. There's a stark valuation gap between the
UK and the US.
Speaker 5 (04:36):
Why not help.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Out well of course aim shares are included in this,
so it's not the case that no listed equities are
included in the announcements today. But what staffup and scale
up businesses say to me is that they end up
listing abroad because they raise capital abroad. And one scale
up business is a really successful UK scale up business
(04:58):
said to me was that every time they raise money
they've become a bit more American. And so the point
here is that our fast growing businesses will be able
to raise money through that long term investment from pension
funds and therefore we'll stay in the UK and we'll
list in the UK.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
So this is good for UK stock markets too.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Well, you said never say never on mandation, would there
ever be mandating to invest in UK listed equities.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
I think that what we've done today shows that we
don't need to use mandat. There's a willingness from businesses
to do this voluntarily in line with their judiciary duties
to ensure best value for their savers. And today just
shows what government and business can do working in partnership,
(05:41):
delivering for working people who in the end have got
to be forefront of our minds because it is their
money that is being saved, their money put aside for retirement,
and we've got a shared interest government, business and most
of all on behalf of working people to ensure that
that money works for them.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Chance if we can turn to another issue topic here
in the city, are you concerned that your non dom
tax changes will cost more than they raise?
Speaker 5 (06:05):
No, I'm not concerned.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
We've had numbers produced by the Independent Office the Budget
Responsibility who forecasts a combination of those rules but also
the temporary repatriation facility will bring in money for the exchequer.
When I became Chancellor last year, have faced a big
black hole in the public of finances. We needed to
(06:27):
take a media action to deal with that. We made
a manifesto commitment to ensure that non doms do pay
their fair share of tax in the UK. But combined
with the temporary repatriation facility, which makes it easier for
people to bring money into the UK without facing punitive tax,
is what has convinced the Office of Budget Responsibility and
(06:48):
other forecasters to say that this will raise money for
the exchequer, money that's much needed to invest, for example,
in defense.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
But the abr's modeling assumes that non doms won't leave
as a result of yours, and they've admitted that it's
very uncertain.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
The Office of Budget Responsibility do forecast that a number
of non doms will leave the country. And indeed every
year you have huge flows of people in and out
of the country. This is a highly mobile group of people.
But as well as people leaving the UK for a
whole variety of reasons, we have every year thousands of people,
including some of the wealthiest people, come to the UK
(07:23):
because they can see that this is a great place
to do business, a great place to grow a business.
And you saw yesterday in the Immigration white Paper a
real shift in our policies around immigration towards higher skill,
our higher value people coming into the UK to better
support our economy and Chansa.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
I was interested to hear the Prime Minister saying that
immigration doesn't boost economic growth. That directly contradicts the OBR.
So who's right, the Prime Minister or the OBR.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Well, of course immigration can be good for the UK economy.
We can get the right type of immigration just bringing
in more low skilled workers. It's not going to make
people here in Britain better off, and that is the
number one priority of this government.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
We do need to get the numbers down.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
More than almost a million people net migration is a
city the size of Birmingham coming into the UK every year.
That's clearly not sustainable for our public services, for our housing.
Speaker 5 (08:21):
And when we've got nine million.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
People in the UK who are economically inactive of working age,
it's quite clear that our priority has got to be,
as it is through our welfare reforms of getting people
back into work by giving them the support and training
that they need.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
If more people doesn't necessarily equal more growth though, does
that rule out the government agreeing to a slim down
version of the EU's youth mobility scheme.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Well, we've got the EU UK Summit next Monday. Negotiations
are ongoing ahead of that. But we were clear in
our manifesto there will be no return to free movement
under this labor government.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
You can see that.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Finally we've got a government that is trying to get
a grip of uncontrolled migration. But of course through whatt
Britain to be a place that welcomes entrepreneurs, researchers, the
best talent, because that is something that makes our country
a great place.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
So it's the UK Chancellor of yeh cheka.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Rachel Reeves speaking to us off the back of signing
that new version of the Mansion House accord.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Well, never say never, Lizzie. That was I think very
interesting to her refusing to rule out forcing the big
pension funds. Now, for me, I always come back when
thinking about the chances, back to the Mains lecture she
gave a few years back.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
She really liked that. That's what she wants you to
think of.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Well, it's her three pillars of how she would fix
the UK economy stability, Investment reform. This is the investment.
This is how she would get projects theoretically back into
the UK. She's always said private investment is the secret source,
and now she's got this agreement with pension funds to
put money back in. But one of the key problems
(10:00):
here is going to be delivery. Now, we had Andy Briggs,
the CEO of Phoenix, which is the UK's largest pension fund,
on Bloomberg after Reeves's announcement. He's also focused on delivery.
Speaker 6 (10:11):
Yeah, but this needs dedicated focus. What we've announced today
is an intent a direction of travel, which is great,
but what matters is the actual execution. Unless we get
this money invested, we won't get the returns for customers,
we won't get the benefit on the broader economy.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Now, is weirdly where the difficult bit begins. There have
to be big infrastructure products and they have to deliver
returns back to these pension funds because these aren't just
big corporate bohemos. They are people's life savings. And if
they aren't making money back that is also going to
hit the UK economy in its own way.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Well, yeah, that is there for duciary duty, which is
exactly the conflict we started the conversation on. But this
question of execution comes back to why it isn't already happening.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
We've already had a mansion house.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Packed and that one year review that I was referring
to is by the Association of British Insurance that showed
only limited progress in terms of assets invested. The signatories
held the equivalent of just zero point three to six
percent of the total value of their DC default funds
in private assets, and they cited key operational and technical
barriers to investment in private assets.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
So the excuses are there.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Why is it going to be any different this time
just because they're committing to a bigger percentage allocation, the
actual mechanism remains voluntary or.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Will it forever?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Maybe this is opening the door to mansion house three
point zero four point zero. When do we eventually see
the mandation that, as you say, Reeves did not rule
out well.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
And then the other side of this is to go
back to those three pillars. Its stability. The Labor government
had maintained all the way through the Action campaign when
it was yet to be a government, that it would
take power, stability would come and capital would flood in.
Yet when we come and look at the mega wealthy,
some early rumors are suggesting that actually quite the opposite
(11:58):
of happening, and some of the rich people are leaving.
This is the sort of non doms where they're responding
to tax incentives potentially pushing them away from the UK.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Yeah, certainly, something that we've been hearing at Bloomberg is
that they are departing or planning to depart.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
And it's big names, high profile names like Goldman Sachs
as Richard Noddy.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
The Livingstone brothers. They are like real estate magnates and
also a lot of the city it's said here one
in five city bankers are non doms, so this if
this is true, the OBER puts it at twelve percent,
leaving some early estimates from other academics it could be
as high as forty percent. It's very hard to measure,
but that would be a fiscal hole in sort of
(12:37):
Reuser's budget as we're already seeing a lot of uncertainty
amount about the growth out look.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah, you had a fantastic story about this report from
the Center for Economics in Business Research on their estimate
of how much it would cost rather than raise the
treasury if you saw non dorms actually leaving and this
wellf exodus actually becoming a headache for the treasury.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
I mean they'll say it's at twenty five percent. That's
at the moment you start to lose money. And as
we're sort of discovering today, the one thing we want
to get is more money back into the UK, be
it private or public.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Well, finally we ended on the immigration point. I thought
it was interesting that the Chancellor opened the door to
co Starmer's remarks on immigration and looking ahead to that
UK EU summit on May the nineteenth.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
So it is interesting that you push on the OBR
because when it comes to the obr's estimates on non doms,
it's twelve percent, and she pushed that as though the
estimate we should trst. When it came to immigration, you
asked about the OBR in the other direction, and there
it was a lot more mixed.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
The sort of immigrants have to be the right sort
of immigrants, not the sort of thing that you would
usually hear from labor, but you would hear in the
context of fending off the threat or trying to fend
off the threat from Nigel Farag's Reform UK. But I
remember interviewing Rachelus when she was Shadow Chancellor and how
critical she was of Liz Truss as Prime Minister for
(13:55):
questioning the obr's methodology.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
So it is.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Interesting to me that there is only interested in the
abr's analysis when it suits them, when it's certain kinds
of immigrants.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
That's it from us for today. If you like the program,
don't forget subscribe and give it five stars that other
people can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever
you listen.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
And this episode was produced and co anchored by James Wilcock.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I'm Lizzie Burden. We'll be back tomorrow. This is Bloomberg,
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
You're listening to Bloomberg UK Politics.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
I'm Lizzie Burden and I'm James Wilcock and it's Tuesday,
which means it's a special podcast. James and I have
just hot footed it over from near the Tower of London.
We had a beautiful view of it and we were
just in a room with the UK Chancellor of the Exchequer,
Rachel Reeves, and seventeen pension fund CEOs signing not us
them a new version of the Mansion House Accord.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Well it doesn't happen every day, is he Yeah. The
most important thing it doesn't happen every day was that
it was sunny in London. And the second thing that
doesn't happen every day is you get to interview the
chance of the Exchequer us.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
It was a great opportunity to talk through this latest development.
So you remember back in twenty twenty three Jeremy Hunt
when he was the Conservative Chancellor signed the Mansion House Compact. Well,
Rachel Reeves is built on that today with the Mansion
House Accord. So you've got seventeen pension funds for lunteering
to invest at least ten percent in private markets by
(01:03):
twenty thirty, and five percent will be allocated to the UK.
We started by talking about that fundamental conflict in this
policy between maximizing returns for pension funds and boosting UK
economic growth.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Well, we do need to achieve both, and we improve
returns for savers in the UK. And I know that
people are every month that save for their pension making
big sacrifices in doing that, and I want them to
know that they're getting the very best return on that money,
which means a more diversified portfolio, including investing in fast
(01:38):
growing businesses and also in infrastructure. And what's welcome today
is that at seventeen companies representing ninety percent of active
pension savers have signed this accord, which means that now
ten percent of what they invest will be in these
private assets, and for the first time ever a proportion
(02:00):
of those half of those or be in UK assets.
That's good for the UK economy, more money into the
UK economy, but it's also good for savers.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
So if your confidence is good for savers and for
the economy, why not mandate these pension funds to invest
in UK assets.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
We don't need to mandate them if people are willing
to sign a voluntary accord, and today we've shown that
that is possible, with seventeen businesses representing ninety percent of
active savers signing up voluntarily to this because they know
that it is in the interests of the savers whose
money they invest.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
The challenge up until.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Now has been that no company wants to go first,
and so this coordination, that's the role that government can
play and the work that myself and our Pensions Minister
Torsten Bell have done is to bring the industry together
in a way that hasn't been achieved before, to ensure
that the market will move together and send a very
clear signal that the best way to deliver for savers
(02:57):
is to have a more diversified portfolio.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And if they don't comply, because a one year of
view of the original Mansion House Compact showed only limited
progress in terms of assets invested, is there a point
at which you would mandate pension funds to invest in
UK projects.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
I'm never going to say never, but I don't think
it's necessary because what we saw today was as seventeen
pension funds representing the vast proportion of pension savers in
the UK deciding voluntarily to do this, and what they
wanted was a government that was willing to corral and
bring together the industry to ensure that they can best
(03:36):
ensure that their savers, their customers are better served. And
so I'm really pleased with what we've been able to do.
It shows that you don't need to use mandation if
you can work together, have that compelling argument. And also
crucially in this is so important have the pipeline of
investments because another thing that pension funds have said to
(03:57):
me is would love to invest more in private assets.
Speaker 5 (04:00):
I'd love to invest in infrastructure if we.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Had that pipeline of projects, and that's what our ten
year Infrastructure plan will enable. There's a number of investable projects,
whether that's the Lower teens crossing, whether it is investment
at Heathrow or Houston Station, or projects around the country
from a rail in the North to gigafactories. There's so
(04:24):
many investments that can be made that gives them that.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Why focus on private markets when the London public market
needs such help. There's a stark valuation gap between the
UK and the US.
Speaker 5 (04:36):
Why not help.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Out well of course aim shares are included in this,
so it's not the case that no listed equities are
included in the announcements today. But what staffup and scale
up businesses say to me is that they end up
listing abroad because they raise capital abroad. And one scale
up business is a really successful UK scale up business
(04:58):
said to me was that every time they raise money
they've become a bit more American. And so the point
here is that our fast growing businesses will be able
to raise money through that long term investment from pension
funds and therefore we'll stay in the UK and we'll
list in the UK.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
So this is good for UK stock markets too.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Well, you said never say never on mandation, would there
ever be mandating to invest in UK listed equities.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
I think that what we've done today shows that we
don't need to use mandat. There's a willingness from businesses
to do this voluntarily in line with their judiciary duties
to ensure best value for their savers. And today just
shows what government and business can do working in partnership,
(05:41):
delivering for working people who in the end have got
to be forefront of our minds because it is their
money that is being saved, their money put aside for retirement,
and we've got a shared interest government, business and most
of all on behalf of working people to ensure that
that money works for them.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Chance if we can turn to another issue topic here
in the city, are you concerned that your non dom
tax changes will cost more than they raise?
Speaker 5 (06:05):
No, I'm not concerned.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
We've had numbers produced by the Independent Office the Budget
Responsibility who forecasts a combination of those rules but also
the temporary repatriation facility will bring in money for the exchequer.
When I became Chancellor last year, have faced a big
black hole in the public of finances. We needed to
(06:27):
take a media action to deal with that. We made
a manifesto commitment to ensure that non doms do pay
their fair share of tax in the UK. But combined
with the temporary repatriation facility, which makes it easier for
people to bring money into the UK without facing punitive tax,
is what has convinced the Office of Budget Responsibility and
(06:48):
other forecasters to say that this will raise money for
the exchequer, money that's much needed to invest, for example,
in defense.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
But the abr's modeling assumes that non doms won't leave
as a result of yours, and they've admitted that it's
very uncertain.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
The Office of Budget Responsibility do forecast that a number
of non doms will leave the country. And indeed every
year you have huge flows of people in and out
of the country. This is a highly mobile group of people.
But as well as people leaving the UK for a
whole variety of reasons, we have every year thousands of people,
including some of the wealthiest people, come to the UK
(07:23):
because they can see that this is a great place
to do business, a great place to grow a business.
And you saw yesterday in the Immigration white Paper a
real shift in our policies around immigration towards higher skill,
our higher value people coming into the UK to better
support our economy and Chansa.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
I was interested to hear the Prime Minister saying that
immigration doesn't boost economic growth. That directly contradicts the OBR.
So who's right, the Prime Minister or the OBR.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Well, of course immigration can be good for the UK economy.
We can get the right type of immigration just bringing
in more low skilled workers. It's not going to make
people here in Britain better off, and that is the
number one priority of this government.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
We do need to get the numbers down.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
More than almost a million people net migration is a
city the size of Birmingham coming into the UK every year.
That's clearly not sustainable for our public services, for our housing.
Speaker 5 (08:21):
And when we've got nine million.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
People in the UK who are economically inactive of working age,
it's quite clear that our priority has got to be,
as it is through our welfare reforms of getting people
back into work by giving them the support and training
that they need.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
If more people doesn't necessarily equal more growth though, does
that rule out the government agreeing to a slim down
version of the EU's youth mobility scheme.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Well, we've got the EU UK Summit next Monday. Negotiations
are ongoing ahead of that. But we were clear in
our manifesto there will be no return to free movement
under this labor government.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
You can see that.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Finally we've got a government that is trying to get
a grip of uncontrolled migration. But of course through whatt
Britain to be a place that welcomes entrepreneurs, researchers, the
best talent, because that is something that makes our country
a great place.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
So it's the UK Chancellor of yeh cheka.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Rachel Reeves speaking to us off the back of signing
that new version of the Mansion House accord.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Well, never say never, Lizzie. That was I think very
interesting to her refusing to rule out forcing the big
pension funds. Now, for me, I always come back when
thinking about the chances, back to the Mains lecture she
gave a few years back.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
She really liked that. That's what she wants you to
think of.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Well, it's her three pillars of how she would fix
the UK economy stability, Investment reform. This is the investment.
This is how she would get projects theoretically back into
the UK. She's always said private investment is the secret source,
and now she's got this agreement with pension funds to
put money back in. But one of the key problems
(10:00):
here is going to be delivery. Now, we had Andy Briggs,
the CEO of Phoenix, which is the UK's largest pension fund,
on Bloomberg after Reeves's announcement. He's also focused on delivery.
Speaker 6 (10:11):
Yeah, but this needs dedicated focus. What we've announced today
is an intent a direction of travel, which is great,
but what matters is the actual execution. Unless we get
this money invested, we won't get the returns for customers,
we won't get the benefit on the broader economy.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Now, is weirdly where the difficult bit begins. There have
to be big infrastructure products and they have to deliver
returns back to these pension funds because these aren't just
big corporate bohemos. They are people's life savings. And if
they aren't making money back that is also going to
hit the UK economy in its own way.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Well, yeah, that is there for duciary duty, which is
exactly the conflict we started the conversation on. But this
question of execution comes back to why it isn't already happening.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
We've already had a mansion house.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Packed and that one year review that I was referring
to is by the Association of British Insurance that showed
only limited progress in terms of assets invested. The signatories
held the equivalent of just zero point three to six
percent of the total value of their DC default funds
in private assets, and they cited key operational and technical
barriers to investment in private assets.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
So the excuses are there.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Why is it going to be any different this time
just because they're committing to a bigger percentage allocation, the
actual mechanism remains voluntary or.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Will it forever?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Maybe this is opening the door to mansion house three
point zero four point zero. When do we eventually see
the mandation that, as you say, Reeves did not rule
out well.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
And then the other side of this is to go
back to those three pillars. Its stability. The Labor government
had maintained all the way through the Action campaign when
it was yet to be a government, that it would
take power, stability would come and capital would flood in.
Yet when we come and look at the mega wealthy,
some early rumors are suggesting that actually quite the opposite
(11:58):
of happening, and some of the rich people are leaving.
This is the sort of non doms where they're responding
to tax incentives potentially pushing them away from the UK.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Yeah, certainly, something that we've been hearing at Bloomberg is
that they are departing or planning to depart.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
And it's big names, high profile names like Goldman Sachs
as Richard Noddy.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
The Livingstone brothers. They are like real estate magnates and
also a lot of the city it's said here one
in five city bankers are non doms, so this if
this is true, the OBER puts it at twelve percent,
leaving some early estimates from other academics it could be
as high as forty percent. It's very hard to measure,
but that would be a fiscal hole in sort of
(12:37):
Reuser's budget as we're already seeing a lot of uncertainty
amount about the growth out look.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah, you had a fantastic story about this report from
the Center for Economics in Business Research on their estimate
of how much it would cost rather than raise the
treasury if you saw non dorms actually leaving and this
wellf exodus actually becoming a headache for the treasury.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
I mean they'll say it's at twenty five percent. That's
at the moment you start to lose money. And as
we're sort of discovering today, the one thing we want
to get is more money back into the UK, be
it private or public.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Well, finally we ended on the immigration point. I thought
it was interesting that the Chancellor opened the door to
co Starmer's remarks on immigration and looking ahead to that
UK EU summit on May the nineteenth.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
So it is interesting that you push on the OBR
because when it comes to the obr's estimates on non doms,
it's twelve percent, and she pushed that as though the
estimate we should trst. When it came to immigration, you
asked about the OBR in the other direction, and there
it was a lot more mixed.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
The sort of immigrants have to be the right sort
of immigrants, not the sort of thing that you would
usually hear from labor, but you would hear in the
context of fending off the threat or trying to fend
off the threat from Nigel Farag's Reform UK. But I
remember interviewing Rachelus when she was Shadow Chancellor and how
critical she was of Liz Truss as Prime Minister for
(13:55):
questioning the obr's methodology.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
So it is.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Interesting to me that there is only interested in the
abr's analysis when it suits them, when it's certain kinds
of immigrants.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
That's it from us for today. If you like the program,
don't forget subscribe and give it five stars that other
people can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever
you listen.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
And this episode was produced and co anchored by James Wilcock.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I'm Lizzie Burden. We'll be back tomorrow. This is Bloomberg,
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