June 13, 2025 • 23 mins
British Prime Minister Keir Starmer discusses the escalating conflict between Israel and Iran, the humanitarian situation in Gaza and the prospects for a UK-US trade deal. He speaks with Bloomberg’s Mishal Husain at 10 Downing Street before leaving for the Group of Seven leaders summit taking place in the Canadian Rockies in this special episode of The UK Politics Podcast.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Hello, you're listening to
the UK Politics Podcast. I'm Michelle Hussein and you won't
have heard me here before, but I wanted to bring
you an exclusive interview with Sakir's Starmer that we have
(00:21):
just recorded in Number ten, Downing Street on the eve
of the Prime Minister's departure for Canada and the G
seven summit. There's a lot on his mind these international gatherings,
and remember there's a big NATO summit coming up too well.
There used to be predictable set piece moments, but it
wasn't like that in President Trump's first term, and these
(00:41):
months of his second term have been dramatic. The Prime
Minister has worked hard to try to convince him to
be tougher on Russia and more supportive of Ukraine, and
he has scored some significant goals for the UK in
talks on tariffs. He is also under pressure to make
a firmer, bigger commitment on spending. We talked for longer
(01:02):
than I have previously talked to any UK Prime minister,
and that's what you're about to hear. You'll also find
a print version of this on the Bloomberg website and
digital apps. As my latest weekend interview, here goes Prime Minister,
just as you're about to leave for the G seven,
Israel's carried out what it describes as a preemptive strike
(01:23):
on Iranian nuclear targets. Two hundred fighter jets, more than
three hundred bombs, the site struck, including homes. Would you
say Israel is justified in the action it's taken.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Well, I'm very concerned about the situation that is developing,
and it's obvious that for a long time we've had
great concerns about the nuclear program that Iran is putting together,
and we absolutely recognize Asrael's right to self defense. We
the UK were not evolved in this attack, and we're
(01:55):
urging all sides to de escalate and negotiate as the
way forward here, and obviously we're talking to allies about that.
We have been this week. We are intensively talking to
ourllies today.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
In March, US national intelligence made it public that they
did not believe Iran was developing nuclear weapons. So has
something changed in the assessment since then.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Well, I won't go into the intelligence assessments, but we
are gravely concerned. I've just had a call with President
Macron and Chancellor Mertz to discuss the situation, and we
are all on the same page in the sense of saying, look,
the nuclear program is a real cause for concern. We're
all saying de escalate in relation to this incident, but
(02:38):
none of us were involved in the actual attack.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Does that mean you're also gravely concerned about the fact
that Israel has taken this very made this very big
move preemptive military action. I mean, you're concerned about Iran's
nuclear program, you're also concerned about Israel's choice of action.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Well, I'm concerned about escalation, of course, and I'm going
to speak to Prime Minister Netta ya who shortly after
this interview, so obviously that'll be a topic of discussion.
But I do recognize Israel's right to self defense, There's
no doubt about that. But I am very concerned about
the escalation of this situation, which is why, along with
(03:15):
Germany and France, were really clear that de escalation is
what is needed here.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Would the UK therefore help defend Israel from Iranian attack
as it has done before.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, this is happening, you know, in real time as
we speak, and I'm not going to go into operational matters,
if you'll forgive me for that. But as I say,
the principle of Israel's right to self defense is absolutely
clear and we stand by that. But this is a
fast moving situation, as you will understand.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
At the same time, we have the ongoing situation in Gaza,
the suffering. They're something that you have called intolerable and appalling.
Three weeks ago, you made this very strong statement with
Canada and France which call for three things. For how
master release the hostage is for Israel's military operations in
Gaza to cease, and for Israel to let aid into
(04:07):
Gaza in accordance with the UN, engage with the UN
in delivering it. None of those things have happened. What
action will you take now.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Well, you'll have seen that we've taken action in relation
to sanctions three weeks ago, but also more recently, and
it is important that we consider what other options that
we have.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
I always think in.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
These situations it's better to act with allies, which is
why we're coordinating what we're doing. But the situation in
Gaza is absolutely intolerable. The aid arrangements are not adequate,
nor are they going to be adequate, and so that's
why we've been consistently calling for a return to the ceasefire.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Of course, the release of the hostages.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
The remaining hostages have been there a very long time
in awful circumstances, but we must get that aid in
at speed, at vol and the current arrangements are not
going to deliver that main following have been very clear
in our messaging all this and our coordination all this,
(05:10):
and our willingness to take action such as sanctioning.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Which you've already done and as I said, there's been
no change to the situation. An action you could take
is recognizing a Palestinian state, and President macrom is leading
on a conference at the UN next week on that
very subject.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Well, we've got long standing policy as a labor party's
labor government that recognition should be part of a process,
and so that's our approach. Precisely what's going to happen
in the conference next week, I think is unclear. And
obviously now the immediate issue is the Israeli attack overnight,
(05:50):
and so there are a lot of moving parts at
the moment. But the principle, the principle we've always held
is that the only.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Long time.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Solution in relation to Palestine in the Middle East is
a two state solution, and although it seems further off
now than perhaps it's seen for some time, we have
to be clear that is the only path through that
Recognition at the right part of the process has always
been our long standing policy.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
So why would this not be the moment because the
action you've taken so far has not resulted in a
change on the ground, and in the West Bank there's
an expansion of settlements, and there are Palestinians being expelled
from their homes, and there are the extremist actions of
Israeli settlers. Britain has a historic responsibility, doesn't it, And
recognizing of Palestinian state was in your manifesto. Do you
(06:42):
want to be the British Prime Minister who delivers that.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Well, we do have a special responsibility.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
You're absolutely right about that and I'm clear and our
manifesto was clear about our position on recognition. But it
must be the appropriate part of the process that will alleviate.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Which it doesn't exist at the moment. There is no
peace process.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Well, that's why it must be part of the process.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Obviously, as you would expect, we are talking to allies
like minded countries about this very issue, but it must
be in a court with the manifesto, part of a
process that leads to a two state solution. It's the
outcome that matters in this hugely given the intolerable situation.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Can you see the moment where you're making in fact, well,
can you see the moment where you might have to
do things independently of any process, because there isn't one.
And indeed, the Israeli government is saying openly that it's
trying to prevent the expand the establishment of a Paralestinian
state through settlement expansion.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Well, that's why.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
We're talking to international partners about what can be done,
what should be done, what's the appropriate path, and we'll
continue to do that.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
I strongly believe that we are better, more.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Effective when we're acting with allies with others at the
same time. That's why we took the approach did on sanctions,
and it's the same mindset that I bring to this.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Speaking of sanctions, let's turn to Russia, and you've worked
very very hard on to help the US administration see
Ukraine slightly differently, to push them further towards a greater
action on Russian and you'll be seeing President Trump at
the G seven summit. Do you understand what he is
trying to do on Russia.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I am clear in my own mind that President Trump
wants to bring that an end to the conflict. I
have no doubt about that, and we are moving closer.
I hope to some sort of ceasefire, some sort of
deal Ukraine. President Zelensky has been absolutely clear that he
wants that unconditional ceasefire. Putin, in my view, is dragging
(08:47):
his heels, which is why I think it is important
for us, together with others, to say it will be
consequences if Russia doesn't come forward to an unconditional cease fire.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
And it seemed that you had it did seem that
you had. You thought you had persuaded President Trump on
that when you went to Kiev, when you and the
other European leaders called in, you said, working with President Trump,
we're going to ramp up sanctions. And then nothing came
of it. President Trump talked tough for a while about
Vladimir Putin and then stopped. So is he going to
(09:17):
pressure mister Futin?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Well, there are discussions going on the whole time, and
we're working with the Ukrainians, working with the US as
you would expect with or a trusted ally in this
The path to piece is rarely straightforward in any conflict,
but I do believe that that is what President Trump wants.
That is absolutely what the Ukrainians want peace. This is
(09:42):
a conflict of war that's been waged on them by
the aggressor, which is Russia, and so we are doing
everything we can to bring about that outcome. But I'd
say the path from conflict to piece is rarely straightforward.
But I'm absolutely determined that the UK will play a part,
and I'm very pleased that the UK has seemed to
(10:03):
be able to play that leading part in resolving the conflict.
And I remind myself always that not only is this
about the sovereignty of Ukraine, which of course it is,
but it is also about our values in Europe, and
it's also about the direct impact it has back here
at home in the United Kingdom, because whether it's energy
or the cost of living, familist communities, individuals in the
(10:26):
UK have been impacted by what's happening in Ukraine, and
therefore we need to redouble our efforts to bring about
a lasting piece on a temporary piece, but a lasting piece.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Are you saying that you do believe that President Trump
will bring in sanctions on Russia, new sanctions, the kind
of measure that might pressure put In to come to
the negotiating.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
He said on a number of occasions that's what he
will do, and we're obviously closely aligning and talking to him.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
He also they did in the war in twenty four hours.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Well, as I say, the path to if you look
at any conflict historically, the path to piece has never
been straightforward. But the determination is there, the intent is there,
and I do believe we're making progress, but it must
be a lasting piece.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
You have led on this idea of the Coalition of
the Willing and a reassurance force for postwar Ukraine. Have
you got a commitment from the US that it would
provide air cover for that future force to deter Russia
from attacking Ukraine in the future.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Well, President Trump has clearly said he'll have our back,
and I've always been clear that there must be a
US element to this. But on the other hand, I
do think that Europe needs to step up in its
own right, in its own collective security and self defense.
And that's why, along with President Macron, we have led,
(11:54):
as it were, on the Coalition of the willing, which
is to go, if you like it, pace of those
that want to go furthest rather than at the pace
of those who are the most cautious, and to start
some of the planning that is going to be needed.
Then the further we get into the planning of what's
actually going to be needed in the air, in the sea,
(12:15):
and possibly on land, the more convinced I am. This
is the military planning that value's planning that needs to
go on now, it's planning that can't go on after
the event, so that we're ready for whatever happened. Obviously,
there's a lot of moving parts, there's a lot of
questions that aren't answered yet, but the military planning is
(12:35):
getting to quite an advanced stage.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Now. Having your back, as President Trump has said, is
not the same as saying I will provide US air cover.
Bloomberg's been told that the US is refusing to commit
to air cover for a post warforce.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Well, I'm not going to get into the private discussions
that we are having, but what I would say is
this that there are no two countries act as closely
together on defense, security and on intelligence sharing as the
US and the UK, and that aspect of our relationship
is as strong today as it's ever been. And my
(13:14):
commitment to it is their President Trump's commitment to it
is there. We've discussed it between ourselves, so that is
an unshakable link between our two countries.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
It does make it difficult, though, doesn't it for you too?
And would you be prepared to put US to put
British troops on the ground as part of a post
war force in Ukraine if there wasn't US air cover
to protect them?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Well, I've always said there needs to be US protection.
I have said we would be willing to put our
troops on the ground, but there has to be that
US back still if you like.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
So if it's not there, what happens to the pirst
war force.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
We are discussing this, but I have no reason to
believe that the US and the UK wouldn't act together
as we've done historic for many, many years, as we
are doing every single day of the week. Our teams
are in constant touch with each other. As I say,
we must never lose sight of the fact that the
(14:12):
US and the UK are as close as any two
countries on defense, security and the intelligence that we share
with each other.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
There's another live bilateral issue, which is the state of
your trade agreement and the hope that you will implement it.
And the timeframe you yourself set was two weeks, which
would take us to next Wednesday. So will it be
implemented in that timeframe.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
We're in the final stages of implementing now. I'm very
pleased that we reach that agreement. It was a huge
relief to car manufacturing those working in the sector, particularly
jailr workers that I went to see before we started
the negotiations, and I went to see immediately after the negotiations,
and so this is measured in jobs protected, jobs created
(14:52):
by this deal. We are at the implementation stage, but
we're at the end of that process and I hope
that we can complete it pretty soon.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Now is that the same as within the two weeks
by next Wednesday?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Oh, I'm hoping that we will complete it pretty soon.
I mean, it's important that we do. But we're making
good progress. There's nothing unexpected in the implementation and so
we haven't got any hiccups or obstacles.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Why isn't it done yet because.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
There are both sides agree what they would do in
order to implement, and so we're working through what we
the UK have to do, what the US is going
to do so we can implement it.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
That was as we're envisaged.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Not long after the G seven something, you'll have the
NATO summit coming up, and there there is a very
specific new ask which is that the US administration says
is NATO itself says is to spend five percent of
GDP on defense, understood to be by the year twenty
thirty two, three and a half percent on core defense spending.
Will you be committing to that?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Well, let me go through what we've already committed to,
which is obviously two point five percent of GDP being
spent on defense twenty twenty seven, twenty eight. I think
that's earlier than most people thought we would commit to,
and that's the biggest sustain increase in defense spending since
the Cold War, with an ambition then to go to
three percent in the next Parliament set that all out
(16:14):
alongside our Strategic Defense Review. I accept the proposition. I've
advanced the proposition about the importance of NATO our Strategic
Defense Review is very much NATO first, and that all
European countries need to step up. There's been a sort
of criticism that Europe hasn't carried its fair share of
(16:36):
the burden.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
I think that's right.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
So I've said to European allies we need to do
more on spend on capability and cooperation. Obviously, the precise
wording that will be agreed that NATO is still a
matter of some negotiation. What I'm really clear about is
that NATO has been the cornerstone of our defence for
eighty plus years. It is it's the most important successful
(17:02):
military alliance that's ever been and I think it's important
for that summit in just over a week's time to
be a real show of unity and to show our
responsibility not just to reflect on the last eighty years
of NATO, but to play our part in ensuring that
we continue peace in Europe.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
And that's aad NATO.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
And that's the broad picture. But there is now this
very specific ass and your current commitment, as your current
ambition is for three percent of GDP spent on defense
by the year twenty thirty four in the next parliament.
So could it be your ambition by the time of
this summit to raise that to three and a half percent,
because if you don't, you can't really claim to be
(17:43):
the leading European nation in NATO.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Well, I had Mark Rotter, the Sexuary General of NATO,
here in this room on Monday to discuss how together
we would go into this summit. And there's still discussions
going on as to price precisely what the wording of what.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
The commitment will be.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
But I mean, he was very clear to me that
he welcomed our uplift to two point five percent. He
was very pleased that we had done that. It was
very pleased. With a strategic defense, it's all good.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
It's just a long way from what he wants. And
the US says everyone's going to agree to this within
weeks get week, We're going to be a very difficult summit.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
It to NATO, not just in our troops but also
our nuclear commitment to NATO with the only country that
commits our nuclear capability to NATO. And so I think
he would recognize NATO recognizes that the UK makes a
huge contribution to NATO. And I am absolutely determined that
that summit in just over a week will be a
(18:42):
huge success and an opportunity to show the strength together
that we have as NATO allies, but also to send
a very clear message to our adversaries, which is equally
important in what is a more unstable world and I
think we've seen for many, many years.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Finally, let's return to the UK and the plans that
you've just set out for national renewal for a new
phase of your government. There are some concerns that the
growth picture is not necessarily going to with the fore
cars going to support your spending plans. And there is
a group of people that Bloomberger looked into company filings
and they've seen that thousands of company directors have left
(19:22):
the country, relocating out of the UK in the last year.
Is this a group of people that you can really
afford to use? Don't you need to have those people
here to look at the opportunities for investment? Might you
consider an investor visa?
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Well, let me put this in the context because obviously,
and I won't go over this a great detail, but
we inherited a complete mess at the election. Almost everything
was broken, the economy, public services.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
You name it, which is why raise we had to
take difficult.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
But right decisions in the budget, and that, if you like,
was year one of this labor government, which was clear
up the mess, take the difficult but necessary to desc
We're now very clearly moving into sort of phase two,
which is what the spending review ushers in, which is
being clear what's the benefit from this, what's the yield?
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Where are you putting your money?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
And I'm really proud that we're rolling out a program
of real labor values in terms of investment.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Whether that's things like size as.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Well might be part of it. It's just like, is
it something you're considering.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I want more investors to come into the country. I
want top talent to come into the country. But I
would just push back a little because we've had record
investment into the UK since the last election. We've just
had London Tech Week where we had some of the
most forward leading investment investors and tech companies absolutely singing
(20:50):
the praises of the UK and why now is the
right time to invest in the.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Un He's also lost about a quarter of a million
jobs since since the autumn, so it's not it's all
as rosy as week.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Actually, I mean, five hundred thousand more people are in
work than at the date of the last election.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
And the actual since you raise taxes in the autumn.
This is the Bloomberg analysis that a quarter of a
million jobs have been lost.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
If he looked at the number of people in work,
it is five hundred thousand more than it was. If
you look at the commitment and spending Defense Strategic Review,
there's thirty thousand jobs in nuclear submarines size as well
that we announced earlier this week, there's ten thousand jobs.
And my job is to make sure that good and
well paid, secure jobs are there and to attract that
(21:35):
investment and for international investment. I do think this is
a really important point and Bloomberg will understand this almost
better than anyone. Those global investors have a choice as
to which country they put their money in. They chose
not to put their money into the UK for many
years before the election. Now we've had record inward investment.
(21:57):
That is because they've got confidence in what we're doing
putting their money in, and that to me speaks volumes.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Final thought is President Trump coming in September for his
state visit.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Oh, he'll be coming in obviously, the Palace will organize
the dates, but President Trump will be coming for his
state visit in the autumn, and that is really much Well,
the Palace will do it.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
But is it this here, Well, I hope so yes.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
But as I say I leave it, I don' want
to take over the job of the Palace. It's their
job to set out exactly the dates of the invitation.
But I'm really pleased that we will be able to
showcase the close relationship we have between the UK and
the US. That's historically a close relationship, and this will
be a historic second visit for President Trump and we're
(22:45):
all looking forward to welcoming him here.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Prime Minister, thank you very much. Thank you, And that
was Prime Minister Secure Starmer speaking to me Michelle Hussein.
You can find the print version of my interview, including
my annotations and thoughts on what we've had, in the
Weekend section of the Bloomberg website and digital apps. Thank
you for listening. Good Bye.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Hello, you're listening to
the UK Politics Podcast. I'm Michelle Hussein and you won't
have heard me here before, but I wanted to bring
you an exclusive interview with Sakir's Starmer that we have
(00:21):
just recorded in Number ten, Downing Street on the eve
of the Prime Minister's departure for Canada and the G
seven summit. There's a lot on his mind these international gatherings,
and remember there's a big NATO summit coming up too well.
There used to be predictable set piece moments, but it
wasn't like that in President Trump's first term, and these
(00:41):
months of his second term have been dramatic. The Prime
Minister has worked hard to try to convince him to
be tougher on Russia and more supportive of Ukraine, and
he has scored some significant goals for the UK in
talks on tariffs. He is also under pressure to make
a firmer, bigger commitment on spending. We talked for longer
(01:02):
than I have previously talked to any UK Prime minister,
and that's what you're about to hear. You'll also find
a print version of this on the Bloomberg website and
digital apps. As my latest weekend interview, here goes Prime Minister,
just as you're about to leave for the G seven,
Israel's carried out what it describes as a preemptive strike
(01:23):
on Iranian nuclear targets. Two hundred fighter jets, more than
three hundred bombs, the site struck, including homes. Would you
say Israel is justified in the action it's taken.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Well, I'm very concerned about the situation that is developing,
and it's obvious that for a long time we've had
great concerns about the nuclear program that Iran is putting together,
and we absolutely recognize Asrael's right to self defense. We
the UK were not evolved in this attack, and we're
(01:55):
urging all sides to de escalate and negotiate as the
way forward here, and obviously we're talking to allies about that.
We have been this week. We are intensively talking to
ourllies today.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
In March, US national intelligence made it public that they
did not believe Iran was developing nuclear weapons. So has
something changed in the assessment since then.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Well, I won't go into the intelligence assessments, but we
are gravely concerned. I've just had a call with President
Macron and Chancellor Mertz to discuss the situation, and we
are all on the same page in the sense of saying, look,
the nuclear program is a real cause for concern. We're
all saying de escalate in relation to this incident, but
(02:38):
none of us were involved in the actual attack.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Does that mean you're also gravely concerned about the fact
that Israel has taken this very made this very big
move preemptive military action. I mean, you're concerned about Iran's
nuclear program, you're also concerned about Israel's choice of action.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Well, I'm concerned about escalation, of course, and I'm going
to speak to Prime Minister Netta ya who shortly after
this interview, so obviously that'll be a topic of discussion.
But I do recognize Israel's right to self defense, There's
no doubt about that. But I am very concerned about
the escalation of this situation, which is why, along with
(03:15):
Germany and France, were really clear that de escalation is
what is needed here.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Would the UK therefore help defend Israel from Iranian attack
as it has done before.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, this is happening, you know, in real time as
we speak, and I'm not going to go into operational matters,
if you'll forgive me for that. But as I say,
the principle of Israel's right to self defense is absolutely
clear and we stand by that. But this is a
fast moving situation, as you will understand.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
At the same time, we have the ongoing situation in Gaza,
the suffering. They're something that you have called intolerable and appalling.
Three weeks ago, you made this very strong statement with
Canada and France which call for three things. For how
master release the hostage is for Israel's military operations in
Gaza to cease, and for Israel to let aid into
(04:07):
Gaza in accordance with the UN, engage with the UN
in delivering it. None of those things have happened. What
action will you take now.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Well, you'll have seen that we've taken action in relation
to sanctions three weeks ago, but also more recently, and
it is important that we consider what other options that
we have.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
I always think in.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
These situations it's better to act with allies, which is
why we're coordinating what we're doing. But the situation in
Gaza is absolutely intolerable. The aid arrangements are not adequate,
nor are they going to be adequate, and so that's
why we've been consistently calling for a return to the ceasefire.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Of course, the release of the hostages.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
The remaining hostages have been there a very long time
in awful circumstances, but we must get that aid in
at speed, at vol and the current arrangements are not
going to deliver that main following have been very clear
in our messaging all this and our coordination all this,
(05:10):
and our willingness to take action such as sanctioning.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Which you've already done and as I said, there's been
no change to the situation. An action you could take
is recognizing a Palestinian state, and President macrom is leading
on a conference at the UN next week on that
very subject.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Well, we've got long standing policy as a labor party's
labor government that recognition should be part of a process,
and so that's our approach. Precisely what's going to happen
in the conference next week, I think is unclear. And
obviously now the immediate issue is the Israeli attack overnight,
(05:50):
and so there are a lot of moving parts at
the moment. But the principle, the principle we've always held
is that the only.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Long time.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Solution in relation to Palestine in the Middle East is
a two state solution, and although it seems further off
now than perhaps it's seen for some time, we have
to be clear that is the only path through that
Recognition at the right part of the process has always
been our long standing policy.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
So why would this not be the moment because the
action you've taken so far has not resulted in a
change on the ground, and in the West Bank there's
an expansion of settlements, and there are Palestinians being expelled
from their homes, and there are the extremist actions of
Israeli settlers. Britain has a historic responsibility, doesn't it, And
recognizing of Palestinian state was in your manifesto. Do you
(06:42):
want to be the British Prime Minister who delivers that.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Well, we do have a special responsibility.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
You're absolutely right about that and I'm clear and our
manifesto was clear about our position on recognition. But it
must be the appropriate part of the process that will alleviate.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Which it doesn't exist at the moment. There is no
peace process.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Well, that's why it must be part of the process.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Obviously, as you would expect, we are talking to allies
like minded countries about this very issue, but it must
be in a court with the manifesto, part of a
process that leads to a two state solution. It's the
outcome that matters in this hugely given the intolerable situation.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Can you see the moment where you're making in fact, well,
can you see the moment where you might have to
do things independently of any process, because there isn't one.
And indeed, the Israeli government is saying openly that it's
trying to prevent the expand the establishment of a Paralestinian
state through settlement expansion.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Well, that's why.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
We're talking to international partners about what can be done,
what should be done, what's the appropriate path, and we'll
continue to do that.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
I strongly believe that we are better, more.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Effective when we're acting with allies with others at the
same time. That's why we took the approach did on sanctions,
and it's the same mindset that I bring to this.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Speaking of sanctions, let's turn to Russia, and you've worked
very very hard on to help the US administration see
Ukraine slightly differently, to push them further towards a greater
action on Russian and you'll be seeing President Trump at
the G seven summit. Do you understand what he is
trying to do on Russia.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I am clear in my own mind that President Trump
wants to bring that an end to the conflict. I
have no doubt about that, and we are moving closer.
I hope to some sort of ceasefire, some sort of
deal Ukraine. President Zelensky has been absolutely clear that he
wants that unconditional ceasefire. Putin, in my view, is dragging
(08:47):
his heels, which is why I think it is important
for us, together with others, to say it will be
consequences if Russia doesn't come forward to an unconditional cease fire.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
And it seemed that you had it did seem that
you had. You thought you had persuaded President Trump on
that when you went to Kiev, when you and the
other European leaders called in, you said, working with President Trump,
we're going to ramp up sanctions. And then nothing came
of it. President Trump talked tough for a while about
Vladimir Putin and then stopped. So is he going to
(09:17):
pressure mister Futin?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Well, there are discussions going on the whole time, and
we're working with the Ukrainians, working with the US as
you would expect with or a trusted ally in this
The path to piece is rarely straightforward in any conflict,
but I do believe that that is what President Trump wants.
That is absolutely what the Ukrainians want peace. This is
(09:42):
a conflict of war that's been waged on them by
the aggressor, which is Russia, and so we are doing
everything we can to bring about that outcome. But I'd
say the path from conflict to piece is rarely straightforward.
But I'm absolutely determined that the UK will play a part,
and I'm very pleased that the UK has seemed to
(10:03):
be able to play that leading part in resolving the conflict.
And I remind myself always that not only is this
about the sovereignty of Ukraine, which of course it is,
but it is also about our values in Europe, and
it's also about the direct impact it has back here
at home in the United Kingdom, because whether it's energy
or the cost of living, familist communities, individuals in the
(10:26):
UK have been impacted by what's happening in Ukraine, and
therefore we need to redouble our efforts to bring about
a lasting piece on a temporary piece, but a lasting piece.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Are you saying that you do believe that President Trump
will bring in sanctions on Russia, new sanctions, the kind
of measure that might pressure put In to come to
the negotiating.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
He said on a number of occasions that's what he
will do, and we're obviously closely aligning and talking to him.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
He also they did in the war in twenty four hours.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Well, as I say, the path to if you look
at any conflict historically, the path to piece has never
been straightforward. But the determination is there, the intent is there,
and I do believe we're making progress, but it must
be a lasting piece.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
You have led on this idea of the Coalition of
the Willing and a reassurance force for postwar Ukraine. Have
you got a commitment from the US that it would
provide air cover for that future force to deter Russia
from attacking Ukraine in the future.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Well, President Trump has clearly said he'll have our back,
and I've always been clear that there must be a
US element to this. But on the other hand, I
do think that Europe needs to step up in its
own right, in its own collective security and self defense.
And that's why, along with President Macron, we have led,
(11:54):
as it were, on the Coalition of the willing, which
is to go, if you like it, pace of those
that want to go furthest rather than at the pace
of those who are the most cautious, and to start
some of the planning that is going to be needed.
Then the further we get into the planning of what's
actually going to be needed in the air, in the sea,
(12:15):
and possibly on land, the more convinced I am. This
is the military planning that value's planning that needs to
go on now, it's planning that can't go on after
the event, so that we're ready for whatever happened. Obviously,
there's a lot of moving parts, there's a lot of
questions that aren't answered yet, but the military planning is
(12:35):
getting to quite an advanced stage.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Now. Having your back, as President Trump has said, is
not the same as saying I will provide US air cover.
Bloomberg's been told that the US is refusing to commit
to air cover for a post warforce.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Well, I'm not going to get into the private discussions
that we are having, but what I would say is
this that there are no two countries act as closely
together on defense, security and on intelligence sharing as the
US and the UK, and that aspect of our relationship
is as strong today as it's ever been. And my
(13:14):
commitment to it is their President Trump's commitment to it
is there. We've discussed it between ourselves, so that is
an unshakable link between our two countries.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
It does make it difficult, though, doesn't it for you too?
And would you be prepared to put US to put
British troops on the ground as part of a post
war force in Ukraine if there wasn't US air cover
to protect them?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Well, I've always said there needs to be US protection.
I have said we would be willing to put our
troops on the ground, but there has to be that
US back still if you like.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
So if it's not there, what happens to the pirst
war force.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
We are discussing this, but I have no reason to
believe that the US and the UK wouldn't act together
as we've done historic for many, many years, as we
are doing every single day of the week. Our teams
are in constant touch with each other. As I say,
we must never lose sight of the fact that the
(14:12):
US and the UK are as close as any two
countries on defense, security and the intelligence that we share
with each other.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
There's another live bilateral issue, which is the state of
your trade agreement and the hope that you will implement it.
And the timeframe you yourself set was two weeks, which
would take us to next Wednesday. So will it be
implemented in that timeframe.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
We're in the final stages of implementing now. I'm very
pleased that we reach that agreement. It was a huge
relief to car manufacturing those working in the sector, particularly
jailr workers that I went to see before we started
the negotiations, and I went to see immediately after the negotiations,
and so this is measured in jobs protected, jobs created
(14:52):
by this deal. We are at the implementation stage, but
we're at the end of that process and I hope
that we can complete it pretty soon.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Now is that the same as within the two weeks
by next Wednesday?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Oh, I'm hoping that we will complete it pretty soon.
I mean, it's important that we do. But we're making
good progress. There's nothing unexpected in the implementation and so
we haven't got any hiccups or obstacles.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Why isn't it done yet because.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
There are both sides agree what they would do in
order to implement, and so we're working through what we
the UK have to do, what the US is going
to do so we can implement it.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
That was as we're envisaged.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Not long after the G seven something, you'll have the
NATO summit coming up, and there there is a very
specific new ask which is that the US administration says
is NATO itself says is to spend five percent of
GDP on defense, understood to be by the year twenty
thirty two, three and a half percent on core defense spending.
Will you be committing to that?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Well, let me go through what we've already committed to,
which is obviously two point five percent of GDP being
spent on defense twenty twenty seven, twenty eight. I think
that's earlier than most people thought we would commit to,
and that's the biggest sustain increase in defense spending since
the Cold War, with an ambition then to go to
three percent in the next Parliament set that all out
(16:14):
alongside our Strategic Defense Review. I accept the proposition. I've
advanced the proposition about the importance of NATO our Strategic
Defense Review is very much NATO first, and that all
European countries need to step up. There's been a sort
of criticism that Europe hasn't carried its fair share of
(16:36):
the burden.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
I think that's right.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
So I've said to European allies we need to do
more on spend on capability and cooperation. Obviously, the precise
wording that will be agreed that NATO is still a
matter of some negotiation. What I'm really clear about is
that NATO has been the cornerstone of our defence for
eighty plus years. It is it's the most important successful
(17:02):
military alliance that's ever been and I think it's important
for that summit in just over a week's time to
be a real show of unity and to show our
responsibility not just to reflect on the last eighty years
of NATO, but to play our part in ensuring that
we continue peace in Europe.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
And that's aad NATO.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
And that's the broad picture. But there is now this
very specific ass and your current commitment, as your current
ambition is for three percent of GDP spent on defense
by the year twenty thirty four in the next parliament.
So could it be your ambition by the time of
this summit to raise that to three and a half percent,
because if you don't, you can't really claim to be
(17:43):
the leading European nation in NATO.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Well, I had Mark Rotter, the Sexuary General of NATO,
here in this room on Monday to discuss how together
we would go into this summit. And there's still discussions
going on as to price precisely what the wording of what.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
The commitment will be.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
But I mean, he was very clear to me that
he welcomed our uplift to two point five percent. He
was very pleased that we had done that. It was
very pleased. With a strategic defense, it's all good.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
It's just a long way from what he wants. And
the US says everyone's going to agree to this within
weeks get week, We're going to be a very difficult summit.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
It to NATO, not just in our troops but also
our nuclear commitment to NATO with the only country that
commits our nuclear capability to NATO. And so I think
he would recognize NATO recognizes that the UK makes a
huge contribution to NATO. And I am absolutely determined that
that summit in just over a week will be a
(18:42):
huge success and an opportunity to show the strength together
that we have as NATO allies, but also to send
a very clear message to our adversaries, which is equally
important in what is a more unstable world and I
think we've seen for many, many years.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Finally, let's return to the UK and the plans that
you've just set out for national renewal for a new
phase of your government. There are some concerns that the
growth picture is not necessarily going to with the fore
cars going to support your spending plans. And there is
a group of people that Bloomberger looked into company filings
and they've seen that thousands of company directors have left
(19:22):
the country, relocating out of the UK in the last year.
Is this a group of people that you can really
afford to use? Don't you need to have those people
here to look at the opportunities for investment? Might you
consider an investor visa?
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Well, let me put this in the context because obviously,
and I won't go over this a great detail, but
we inherited a complete mess at the election. Almost everything
was broken, the economy, public services.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
You name it, which is why raise we had to
take difficult.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
But right decisions in the budget, and that, if you like,
was year one of this labor government, which was clear
up the mess, take the difficult but necessary to desc
We're now very clearly moving into sort of phase two,
which is what the spending review ushers in, which is
being clear what's the benefit from this, what's the yield?
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Where are you putting your money?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
And I'm really proud that we're rolling out a program
of real labor values in terms of investment.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Whether that's things like size as.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Well might be part of it. It's just like, is
it something you're considering.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I want more investors to come into the country. I
want top talent to come into the country. But I
would just push back a little because we've had record
investment into the UK since the last election. We've just
had London Tech Week where we had some of the
most forward leading investment investors and tech companies absolutely singing
(20:50):
the praises of the UK and why now is the
right time to invest in the.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Un He's also lost about a quarter of a million
jobs since since the autumn, so it's not it's all
as rosy as week.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Actually, I mean, five hundred thousand more people are in
work than at the date of the last election.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
And the actual since you raise taxes in the autumn.
This is the Bloomberg analysis that a quarter of a
million jobs have been lost.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
If he looked at the number of people in work,
it is five hundred thousand more than it was. If
you look at the commitment and spending Defense Strategic Review,
there's thirty thousand jobs in nuclear submarines size as well
that we announced earlier this week, there's ten thousand jobs.
And my job is to make sure that good and
well paid, secure jobs are there and to attract that
(21:35):
investment and for international investment. I do think this is
a really important point and Bloomberg will understand this almost
better than anyone. Those global investors have a choice as
to which country they put their money in. They chose
not to put their money into the UK for many
years before the election. Now we've had record inward investment.
(21:57):
That is because they've got confidence in what we're doing
putting their money in, and that to me speaks volumes.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Final thought is President Trump coming in September for his
state visit.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Oh, he'll be coming in obviously, the Palace will organize
the dates, but President Trump will be coming for his
state visit in the autumn, and that is really much Well,
the Palace will do it.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
But is it this here, Well, I hope so yes.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
But as I say I leave it, I don' want
to take over the job of the Palace. It's their
job to set out exactly the dates of the invitation.
But I'm really pleased that we will be able to
showcase the close relationship we have between the UK and
the US. That's historically a close relationship, and this will
be a historic second visit for President Trump and we're
(22:45):
all looking forward to welcoming him here.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Prime Minister, thank you very much. Thank you, And that
was Prime Minister Secure Starmer speaking to me Michelle Hussein.
You can find the print version of my interview, including
my annotations and thoughts on what we've had, in the
Weekend section of the Bloomberg website and digital apps. Thank
you for listening. Good Bye.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.