April 11, 2025 • 13 mins
The UK and European Union are optimistic about striking a deal to reset post-Brexit relations at a summit in May, as President Donald Trump’s tariffs and policy on the Russia-Ukraine war spur calls for greater cooperation and reduced trade barriers in Europe. Bloomberg's Ellen Milligan joins hosts Stephen Carroll and Yuan Potts to discuss.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I think that we can have a much better relationship
with our EU partners on defense, on security of energy,
on trade and our economy. And I'm determined that we
will be ambitious in what we're trying to seek.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Well, let's say to Kay Starmoy there, Brexit does feel
like a long time ago. But how has Donald Trump
up ended the UK's relationship with the EU again. Hello,
you're listening to Bloomberg UK Politics. I'm Stephen Carroll.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
And i'm you and pots. On today's show, we're going
to dig into the relationship between kir Starmer's government and
the European Union. Back on the campaign trail in July,
we were promised a reset warmer ties with our nearest
neighbors and a gradual patching up of relations. Now we
have seen signs of that, with more ministers crossing the
Channel to join meetings on economic and defense issues with
European counterparts. But between last summer's general election and the
(00:58):
start of this year, Donald Trump shaped elephants has entered
the room, making much bigger questions about the security of
the European continent.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Come to the full well those security questions have helped
to bring the UK and the EU closer together as
they try to figure out how they can support Ukraine
as the US pulls back. But then there's trade, so
the US was the UK was relatively spared in Donald
Trump's first tariff moves, although the higher levees on the
EU are now on pause and generally the US President
(01:28):
has spoken in kinder terms about Britain than he has
about the rest of Europe.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Let's take a look at the big picture now with
that relationship with our UK government. Reporter Ellen Milligan who
joins US from Brussels.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Now, Ellen, we know that.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Relations with the EU have been at a pretty low
ebb in recent years. Where does kiss Arma want them
to get to?
Speaker 4 (01:46):
The main kind of word that was in the feeling
that was clouding the relationship between the UK and the
EU since since Brexit, since just before Brexit was distrust
and Richie Sunak and now Kis Starmer have worked to
build that trust, but so far there have been little
(02:07):
and few deliverables, so firm commitments, firm deals, we've not
seen any since kiss Starmer entered office last year. Where
Kisdama would like to get it to comes down to
this summit next month in May that the UK is hosting.
It's an EU UK summit, the first of its kind.
(02:28):
What the UK wants is to get a series of deals,
one on defense and security. This might involve joint procurement,
more joint exercises between European military's joint spending potentially, but
also greater sharing of intelligence and security as well, all
(02:48):
about kind of loosening reliance on the US, because we
know that the US wants to pull back from defense
and security in the EU. We've seen US troops just
this week be pulled out of Poland for example. But
also kis Dama would like to see progress on trade
on particularly on physical checks on food and drink at
(03:12):
the border, also on fishing and carbon trading. There's a
whole host of these things and it will be really
important for the UK to get some of those deliverables
in May, and it will be kind of really interesting
as to where the relationship is and where that trust
is as to whether countries like France, for example, try
(03:32):
to delay those deliverables by bringing in more contentious issues
on fishing for example.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, I mean, what do we know about the attitudes
from EU members and from the European Commission to these
sorts of changes. Have they signaled that they're open to
improve relationships on their side?
Speaker 4 (03:51):
You know what I was hearing from EU diplomats for
a long time was, yeah, it's great. Kised Arma clearly
is a friend of ours. He's worked hard to kind
of build relationships with Macron and at the time Schultz
and Tusk and other European leaders, but we're not really
clear exactly what they want from us. And it was
(04:12):
interesting because I was at the European Political Community summit
in Budapest in November, the day after Trump's electoral victory,
and Kirstarma, I was told, was being approached by all
these European leaders who were suddenly saying to him, you
know that defense and security path that you proposed that
we've kind of been a bit dismissive of the last
four months. Yeah, we want to do that, and we
(04:33):
want to do that quite quickly because we also want
to reduce our alliance on the US, and we also
realize it's important to enhance cooperation with one of the
biggest military powers in Europe. So I think there is
not only a reciprocated want of feeling between the UK
and the EU. But there's also an added urgency since
(04:55):
Trump has come in from the UK and from the
EU side to get these deals done on Ellen.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
The UK is an important military power, traditionally the biggest
defense spender on the continent. Is there a sense that
the UK can leverage its strength in this area to
get concessions elsewhere or do you think that the French
and others were pushed back on mixing the two things.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
On defense and security. I think there's an argument to
be made that the EU actually needs the UK a
bit more on this. There's a reason why Boris Johnson
chose to do the Orcus Pact between the UK, Australia
and the US after Brexit rather than a defense pact
with the EU. The US and Australia are obviously greater
military powers, bigger spenders than many European countries. But I
(05:40):
think I think what's tricky is the UK position is
they want to negotiate a defense and security pack separate
to everything else because they worry that it will be
held up if it's kind of brought into a broad
deal along with energy, phishing, use, mobility, more contentious issues.
What France has won is there's a deadline coming up
(06:02):
on fishing rights in twenty twenty six, and France is
very keen to get a deal negotiated on that, But
the UK and France have differing positions on what they
want from that. They're not as cohesive as they are
on defense and security, so the France wants to kind
of make sure that they get a deal on fishing
(06:25):
and leverage the UK's ask on defense and security to
get that deal on fishing. So the risk is that
you load along a lot of things into one single
negotiation rather than have separate negotiations with separate agreements, and
that's where the delay might come.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
And of course, the other thing that comes up in
twenty twenty six is a review of the current trade
agreement that was agreed with the EU and the UK
after Brexit, which is by all considered to be quite
a bare bones agreement too. So perhaps that's another part
of this puzzle that could make things much more interesting
implicated pick your adjective for the next couple of months
(07:03):
and a year or so running up to that allan
but thinking about the influence that Donald Trump has had
in this conversation as well, we've talked about how the
US pullback on security has perhaps helped to bring the
UK and the EU together. But the commentary around trade
is kind of interesting because although for the moment, and
this is very much a for the moment conversation, the
(07:23):
tariffs have been sort of leveled out at the global
ten percent plus the aluminium steel autobial tariffs that everyone's
subject to. The UK was in there the less badly
hit category in the initial announcement, and certainly Donald Trump
has been much nicer about the UK than he has
about any of his commentary around the European Union. You know,
(07:44):
how does that factor into those conversations around building new ties.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
Yeah, Kistam has always been very clear that he doesn't
think that Britain has to choose between the EU and
the US. So the UK has been trying to negotiate
this economic deal with the US that that's quite it's
not a trade deal, it's quite narrowly focused on tech
AI that hasn't happened. There have been a lot of
(08:09):
frustrations in the UK government that the US it seems
to be stored and Trump didn't sign it off before
these tariffs were announced, and at the same time, as
we've just discussed, there's this reset happening with the EU,
and I think you're right. It's interesting that there's because
(08:30):
of this ninety day pause, at least for the next
ninety days, the UK can't really make the argument like
it has did last week, which is that, Okay, we
are going to be hit by these tariffs, especially if
a recession is caused by them. We're going to be
hit by the global shops, but we aren't as badly
hit by other allies. Now, I will say that Trump
(08:53):
is nicer about the UK for two reasons. One, the
UK is a lot nicer about Trump. Kissam's whole strategy
has been to compliment him, to offer him a state visit,
to you know, charm him, really, whereas the EU has
been more combative. Secondly, we don't have the same kind
of trade deficit issue that the EU does with the US,
(09:17):
so Trump doesn't have as much of it, I guess,
being his wonet about UK trade as he does with
the EU. I think that's key. I think kiss Star
will will say that despite these tariffs, he will still
not have to choose between the US and the EU.
Whether that holds will we'll have to see.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Of course, beyond tred Don, Trump is also up in
the security relationship in Europe, and as the continent looks
ahead to a piece of possible piece in Ukraine, what
kind of shape of discussions taking when it comes to
how European players might take part in that piece.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
Yeah, I mean, I'm here in bustles this week because
there's two big meetings that NATO happening. One on the
Coalition of the Willing, this European led Reassurance Forced that
will sit in Ukraine post any piece still and also
the Ukraine Contact Group, which interestingly, the US Defense sectary
(10:17):
Pigseth is not choosing not to attend. He's sending his
deputy and I think it might be on zoom rather
than the in person, which I think is quite symbolic
of where the US sits in all this. And we
had a story out this week and exclusive on the
risk that this Coalition of the Willing stools, because two
(10:39):
months ago Kistama made very clear we cannot do this
Coalition of the Willing without a US backstep, without US
security guarantees in the form of air power, intelligence, border surveillance,
and the US is yet to make any commitments on
offering those security guarantees. Almost the opposite. Again, as I mentioned,
(11:01):
the US has pulled troops out of Poland this week.
That tells you where the kind of tide is turning
in terms of the US backing up European countries in
backing up European troops. And there's this debate happening between
the UK and France. It seems that the UK still
believes that US security guarantees are absolutely essential, and quite frankly,
(11:25):
that does make the most sense. President Putin takes the
US military military capability far more seriously. They have greater defense,
missile power, greater intelligence as well than Europe could ever
dream of in the next five or so years. But
(11:48):
France seems to be kind of edging towards do we
really need the US or do we really need the
US to have a great role in there. So there's
this debate happening, and I mean this goes to show that,
you know, as warm relations can be between the EU
and the UK, there are those differences of opinion. And
we saw, for example, the EU decide to only give
limited involvement for the UK and this Joint Weapons Fund
(12:13):
that caused some tension between the UK and France. I
know officials hit in the UK. We're pretty angry at
mccron over that, so there are limits to that, but
I think they are join in their concerns about the
US stepping away from the security and the transatlantic partnership
for sure.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Okay, there's lots of things I had to reflect on
in those discussions, and you might be spending a lot
more time on the eurostarves in London and Brussels by
the things as well. Ellen Milligan, our UK government reporter
in Brussels. First, thank you very much. That's it from
us for today. If you like the program, don't forget
to subscribe, give it five stars so other people can
find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
This episode was produced by James Walcock and our audio
engineer was Sean Fosta Makia, I'm you and Potts.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
And I'm Stephen Carroll. We'll be back next week with more.
This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Hey,
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I think that we can have a much better relationship
with our EU partners on defense, on security of energy,
on trade and our economy. And I'm determined that we
will be ambitious in what we're trying to seek.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Well, let's say to Kay Starmoy there, Brexit does feel
like a long time ago. But how has Donald Trump
up ended the UK's relationship with the EU again. Hello,
you're listening to Bloomberg UK Politics. I'm Stephen Carroll.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
And i'm you and pots. On today's show, we're going
to dig into the relationship between kir Starmer's government and
the European Union. Back on the campaign trail in July,
we were promised a reset warmer ties with our nearest
neighbors and a gradual patching up of relations. Now we
have seen signs of that, with more ministers crossing the
Channel to join meetings on economic and defense issues with
European counterparts. But between last summer's general election and the
(00:58):
start of this year, Donald Trump shaped elephants has entered
the room, making much bigger questions about the security of
the European continent.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Come to the full well those security questions have helped
to bring the UK and the EU closer together as
they try to figure out how they can support Ukraine
as the US pulls back. But then there's trade, so
the US was the UK was relatively spared in Donald
Trump's first tariff moves, although the higher levees on the
EU are now on pause and generally the US President
(01:28):
has spoken in kinder terms about Britain than he has
about the rest of Europe.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Let's take a look at the big picture now with
that relationship with our UK government. Reporter Ellen Milligan who
joins US from Brussels.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Now, Ellen, we know that.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Relations with the EU have been at a pretty low
ebb in recent years. Where does kiss Arma want them
to get to?
Speaker 4 (01:46):
The main kind of word that was in the feeling
that was clouding the relationship between the UK and the
EU since since Brexit, since just before Brexit was distrust
and Richie Sunak and now Kis Starmer have worked to
build that trust, but so far there have been little
(02:07):
and few deliverables, so firm commitments, firm deals, we've not
seen any since kiss Starmer entered office last year. Where
Kisdama would like to get it to comes down to
this summit next month in May that the UK is hosting.
It's an EU UK summit, the first of its kind.
(02:28):
What the UK wants is to get a series of deals,
one on defense and security. This might involve joint procurement,
more joint exercises between European military's joint spending potentially, but
also greater sharing of intelligence and security as well, all
(02:48):
about kind of loosening reliance on the US, because we
know that the US wants to pull back from defense
and security in the EU. We've seen US troops just
this week be pulled out of Poland for example. But
also kis Dama would like to see progress on trade
on particularly on physical checks on food and drink at
(03:12):
the border, also on fishing and carbon trading. There's a
whole host of these things and it will be really
important for the UK to get some of those deliverables
in May, and it will be kind of really interesting
as to where the relationship is and where that trust
is as to whether countries like France, for example, try
(03:32):
to delay those deliverables by bringing in more contentious issues
on fishing for example.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, I mean, what do we know about the attitudes
from EU members and from the European Commission to these
sorts of changes. Have they signaled that they're open to
improve relationships on their side?
Speaker 4 (03:51):
You know what I was hearing from EU diplomats for
a long time was, yeah, it's great. Kised Arma clearly
is a friend of ours. He's worked hard to kind
of build relationships with Macron and at the time Schultz
and Tusk and other European leaders, but we're not really
clear exactly what they want from us. And it was
(04:12):
interesting because I was at the European Political Community summit
in Budapest in November, the day after Trump's electoral victory,
and Kirstarma, I was told, was being approached by all
these European leaders who were suddenly saying to him, you
know that defense and security path that you proposed that
we've kind of been a bit dismissive of the last
four months. Yeah, we want to do that, and we
(04:33):
want to do that quite quickly because we also want
to reduce our alliance on the US, and we also
realize it's important to enhance cooperation with one of the
biggest military powers in Europe. So I think there is
not only a reciprocated want of feeling between the UK
and the EU. But there's also an added urgency since
(04:55):
Trump has come in from the UK and from the
EU side to get these deals done on Ellen.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
The UK is an important military power, traditionally the biggest
defense spender on the continent. Is there a sense that
the UK can leverage its strength in this area to
get concessions elsewhere or do you think that the French
and others were pushed back on mixing the two things.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
On defense and security. I think there's an argument to
be made that the EU actually needs the UK a
bit more on this. There's a reason why Boris Johnson
chose to do the Orcus Pact between the UK, Australia
and the US after Brexit rather than a defense pact
with the EU. The US and Australia are obviously greater
military powers, bigger spenders than many European countries. But I
(05:40):
think I think what's tricky is the UK position is
they want to negotiate a defense and security pack separate
to everything else because they worry that it will be
held up if it's kind of brought into a broad
deal along with energy, phishing, use, mobility, more contentious issues.
What France has won is there's a deadline coming up
(06:02):
on fishing rights in twenty twenty six, and France is
very keen to get a deal negotiated on that, But
the UK and France have differing positions on what they
want from that. They're not as cohesive as they are
on defense and security, so the France wants to kind
of make sure that they get a deal on fishing
(06:25):
and leverage the UK's ask on defense and security to
get that deal on fishing. So the risk is that
you load along a lot of things into one single
negotiation rather than have separate negotiations with separate agreements, and
that's where the delay might come.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
And of course, the other thing that comes up in
twenty twenty six is a review of the current trade
agreement that was agreed with the EU and the UK
after Brexit, which is by all considered to be quite
a bare bones agreement too. So perhaps that's another part
of this puzzle that could make things much more interesting
implicated pick your adjective for the next couple of months
(07:03):
and a year or so running up to that allan
but thinking about the influence that Donald Trump has had
in this conversation as well, we've talked about how the
US pullback on security has perhaps helped to bring the
UK and the EU together. But the commentary around trade
is kind of interesting because although for the moment, and
this is very much a for the moment conversation, the
(07:23):
tariffs have been sort of leveled out at the global
ten percent plus the aluminium steel autobial tariffs that everyone's
subject to. The UK was in there the less badly
hit category in the initial announcement, and certainly Donald Trump
has been much nicer about the UK than he has
about any of his commentary around the European Union. You know,
(07:44):
how does that factor into those conversations around building new ties.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
Yeah, Kistam has always been very clear that he doesn't
think that Britain has to choose between the EU and
the US. So the UK has been trying to negotiate
this economic deal with the US that that's quite it's
not a trade deal, it's quite narrowly focused on tech
AI that hasn't happened. There have been a lot of
(08:09):
frustrations in the UK government that the US it seems
to be stored and Trump didn't sign it off before
these tariffs were announced, and at the same time, as
we've just discussed, there's this reset happening with the EU,
and I think you're right. It's interesting that there's because
(08:30):
of this ninety day pause, at least for the next
ninety days, the UK can't really make the argument like
it has did last week, which is that, Okay, we
are going to be hit by these tariffs, especially if
a recession is caused by them. We're going to be
hit by the global shops, but we aren't as badly
hit by other allies. Now, I will say that Trump
(08:53):
is nicer about the UK for two reasons. One, the
UK is a lot nicer about Trump. Kissam's whole strategy
has been to compliment him, to offer him a state visit,
to you know, charm him, really, whereas the EU has
been more combative. Secondly, we don't have the same kind
of trade deficit issue that the EU does with the US,
(09:17):
so Trump doesn't have as much of it, I guess,
being his wonet about UK trade as he does with
the EU. I think that's key. I think kiss Star
will will say that despite these tariffs, he will still
not have to choose between the US and the EU.
Whether that holds will we'll have to see.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Of course, beyond tred Don, Trump is also up in
the security relationship in Europe, and as the continent looks
ahead to a piece of possible piece in Ukraine, what
kind of shape of discussions taking when it comes to
how European players might take part in that piece.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
Yeah, I mean, I'm here in bustles this week because
there's two big meetings that NATO happening. One on the
Coalition of the Willing, this European led Reassurance Forced that
will sit in Ukraine post any piece still and also
the Ukraine Contact Group, which interestingly, the US Defense sectary
(10:17):
Pigseth is not choosing not to attend. He's sending his
deputy and I think it might be on zoom rather
than the in person, which I think is quite symbolic
of where the US sits in all this. And we
had a story out this week and exclusive on the
risk that this Coalition of the Willing stools, because two
(10:39):
months ago Kistama made very clear we cannot do this
Coalition of the Willing without a US backstep, without US
security guarantees in the form of air power, intelligence, border surveillance,
and the US is yet to make any commitments on
offering those security guarantees. Almost the opposite. Again, as I mentioned,
(11:01):
the US has pulled troops out of Poland this week.
That tells you where the kind of tide is turning
in terms of the US backing up European countries in
backing up European troops. And there's this debate happening between
the UK and France. It seems that the UK still
believes that US security guarantees are absolutely essential, and quite frankly,
(11:25):
that does make the most sense. President Putin takes the
US military military capability far more seriously. They have greater defense,
missile power, greater intelligence as well than Europe could ever
dream of in the next five or so years. But
(11:48):
France seems to be kind of edging towards do we
really need the US or do we really need the
US to have a great role in there. So there's
this debate happening, and I mean this goes to show that,
you know, as warm relations can be between the EU
and the UK, there are those differences of opinion. And
we saw, for example, the EU decide to only give
limited involvement for the UK and this Joint Weapons Fund
(12:13):
that caused some tension between the UK and France. I
know officials hit in the UK. We're pretty angry at
mccron over that, so there are limits to that, but
I think they are join in their concerns about the
US stepping away from the security and the transatlantic partnership
for sure.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Okay, there's lots of things I had to reflect on
in those discussions, and you might be spending a lot
more time on the eurostarves in London and Brussels by
the things as well. Ellen Milligan, our UK government reporter
in Brussels. First, thank you very much. That's it from
us for today. If you like the program, don't forget
to subscribe, give it five stars so other people can
find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
This episode was produced by James Walcock and our audio
engineer was Sean Fosta Makia, I'm you and Potts.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
And I'm Stephen Carroll. We'll be back next week with more.
This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Hey,
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.