May 23, 2025 • 15 mins
Keir Starmer made ending antisemitism in the Labour party a core part of turning the page on Jeremy Corbyn's era. But having supported Israel, the Prime Minister's tone has changed as he warned of a humanitarian crisis in Gaza and paused trade talks with the country. EMEA News Director Rosalind Mathieson and our Bloomberg Opinion Columnist Marc Champion explain how the international reaction has changed as the conflict has gone on. Hosted by Caroline Hepker and James Woolcock
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Humanitarian aid needs to get in at place the current
situation in which we're seeing bombardment, including of children, and
the prospect of starvation. It is just intolerable.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Kiss Starmer made ending anti Semitism in the Labor Party
a core part of turning the page on Jeremy Corbyn's era,
and the Prime Minister has supported Israel's right to defend itself,
but now his view has changed.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
Hello, if you're listening to Bloomberg UK Politics, I'm Caroline Hepke.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
And I'm James Orcock. Many of the public will look
back on this week as one where Starmer changed his mind.
You turned on winter fuel allowances for pensioners and also
shifted his stance on a youth migration scheme with the EU.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
But it's on Israel that we want to linger today.
The Labor Party leader has staunchly backed the country ever
since he took over from Jeremy Corbyn. Indeed, Prime Minister
Kis Starmer expelled Corbyn from the party in a bid
to rid Labor of accusations of anti Semitism.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Which makes it all the more dramatic. Karen that this
week he denounced Israel alongside Canada's leader Mark Karney and
Francis Emmanuel Macaron. Starmer then found himself being accused of
inciting anti Semitism by none other than Israel's Prime Minister
Benjamin Ettiahi.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
I say to President Macron, Prime Minister Karney and Prime
Minister Starmer, when mass murderers, rapists, baby killers and kidnappers,
thank you. You're on the wrong side of justice, you're
on the wrong side of humanity, and you're on the
wrong side of history.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
So what has made Starmer change his mind this week?
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Well, joining us now is our EMEA news director Roslyn
Matheson and our Bloomberg opinion columnist Mark Champion. Welcome to
both of you, and thank you for being with us. Mark,
can I start with you. It's nineteen months since the
Hamas attack on Israel. Israel has barred AID into Gaza
for nearly three months. It's back to some trucks returning
(02:02):
to the territory. What is happening now in this conflict?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Well, you know, essentially you had a winding down some
months ago, and what has changed now is that you know,
first of all, in March, the Israelis decided to blockade
further aid going into Gaza, and then more recently they've
(02:36):
announced an expansion of the conflict and they've said that
they're going to move in clear population into the so
called safe zones and then deal once and for all
with Hamas. And it's this expansion of the war that has,
you know, combined with the blockade that came before, it's
(02:58):
that that has really turned you know, Israel's traditional allies,
many of them against it. They simply don't see the
value of continuing the war and they are, you know,
object very strongly to the way in which it's been conducted.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Ross Mark the mentioned that there's been a sort of
shifting position some of Israel's allies. Where are we seeing
that and why is it happening particularly this year.
Speaker 6 (03:30):
Well, it's larctually happening because humanitarian aid was cut off
for a number of months and is slowly resuming a
little bit. And the concerns have largely been around the
humanitarian situation inside Gaza, rising evidence of extreme hunger and
so on, and so the argument from European leaders, Starmer included, is,
(03:53):
you know, whatever's happening in the war, we cannot shut
off aid to the people who are still living in Gaza,
and that seems to have really escalated the rhetoric can
also just the signals from Israel that Benjamin Netanyahu is
determined to push on with this war again in a
very full throated way. You know, he's talking about essentially
(04:15):
flattening Gaza or what's left of it, and just continuing
and perhaps even increasing the war again militarily on the ground,
because he says that he still sees his goal as
eradicating Hamas once and for all. So it seems to
be both the escalation again of the fighting, the sense
of Israel's going to push on quite heavily militarily at
(04:37):
some point, perhaps an even more significant ground movement of
troops back into Gaza, and the worstening humanitarian situation, and
the concern that this conflict is going on with no
perceived end insight.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
In terms of Prime Minister Kissed Arma and Im Macon
and Mark Carney over in Canada, I mean, Israel has
accused them of rewarding her mass effectively, is what the
Israeli Prime Minister said. I mean, supporters of the Palestinian
people will say that this is long overdue, that they
actually said something. I suppose my question really, maybe Mark,
(05:16):
you can answer this, why now? And is is this
really a significant shift in terms of Israel's Western allies.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I think it is significant. I think that, you know,
we've reached a point. I mean there have been for
a long time, there's been criticism of some of Israel's
European allies for not doing more. There's concrete in order
to put pressure on the Israelis to abide by cease
fires and you know, to get the correct amounts of
(05:51):
aid in. I think it is changing now. Part of
it is that the language that Netanyahu and his is
some of his cabinet ministers are now using to describe
their goals for the war is you know, it is
openly stating what Israel was being accused of by its
(06:15):
critics before. Sotnyahu has recently said we are going to
reoccupy Gaza for the indefinite future, so it's openly talking
about occupation. Also talked about clearing, cleansing, uh, you know,
the territory. He was talking about Hamas. But the languages
(06:38):
is quite disturbing. And his Finance minister, Billel Smortovich has
gone even further and talking about how we need you know,
the territories have been conquered. So it's a it's a
change of you know, approach or a kind of open
(06:58):
acknowledgment of the Israel approach that makes it very difficult
actually for allies to say, you know, okay, we vackue
nineteen months after this terrible terrorist attack, we steal vack
you when what you're saying is we want that long
term occupation, we want to flatten it and you know,
talking about cleansing the territory. So I think this is
(07:22):
what really what has changed. It's just the clarity on
the Israeli side has made it very difficult for Western
leaders to continue backing net Yahoo.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
So was the shift in the global position towards Israel.
Will this have any effects on the country or on
Netan Yahoo?
Speaker 6 (07:44):
Well, that's the big question because arguably he is ever
more isolated. I mean, you do have the position shift
really in the UK from Kirs Starmer, who you know,
as Mark was saying, was working really hard to show
that the Labor Party is not anti submitting, but at
a point where you know, they really have to be
much more critical of Israel over Garza and the humanitarian
(08:08):
situation there and lockstep with other leaders in Europe and beyond.
But the question is what impact does that have because
Benjamin Netanier, who seems very determined for what it's worth
in terms of his agenda, and also in the face
of it seems the US President washing his hands of
Israel a little bit. You can see the relationship cooling
(08:29):
between Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanya, who the frustration because
Donald Trump wanted to seize far that's stuck in Gaza.
He wanted this to come to a close. And the
sense now is that if anything, Israel is escalating again militarily.
And so you can see from the Donald Trump's visit
to the region last week, he didn't go to Israel,
he didn't see Benjamin Netanya, who he's simply saying, you
(08:51):
sorted out, I'm leaving you to it. And so compounded,
what does that do. Does Benjamin netaw who feeling that
sense of isolation, really double down and say well, I'm
going to go it alone and I'm going to push
on either way. And does that also lead him beyond
Gaza potentially to take some kind of preemptive action against Iran.
(09:12):
So it's not just Gaza. Here, Now it's the question
of what also does he do potentially with Iran.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Yeah, immensely dangerous when you're talking about nuclear facilities in Iran.
Mark just in terms of what the international community, though,
can can do here in terms of an alternative solution
to this war on har Mas in Gaza and trying
(09:38):
to have some impact on the situation. As we know,
and as Roz was mentioning, their president Trump was in
the Middle East, did not go to Israel and was
focused on signing big deals with Saudi Arabia and UAE,
not on the deaths in Gaza.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yes, that's absolutely true. But I think the kind of
sad part of this is that it is a propitious
time to get a wider deal in the region. But
everything really hinges on the Israelis changing their policy in
(10:25):
Gaza and creating some kind of you know, instead of
pointing their process towards occupation and attempts to clear the
Palestinians out, which are always going to be unacceptable politically
for you know, the leaders in the region, they have
(10:45):
no choice but to reject that. But they are offering
to get involved the Saudi Is, the UAE, Egypt They've
got a plan they're offering to get involved in reconstruction.
They're saying, you know, their plan would bring the Palace,
the new authority into Gaza to you know, take over
from Hamas. Hamas has been willing to talk, but nothing
(11:09):
is really, uh, you know, gone very much further because
the Israelis are in control and basically unwilling. And the
larger part of this is that any solution that leaves
the Palestine is where they are ultimately returns to the
question of a two state solution, which is still you know,
(11:31):
the default position of the international community, but it is
something that Netann Yahoo and in particular some of the
parties in his coalition, are absolutely opposed to, and those
his coalition partners have made it very clear that anything
that smacks of ending the war and moving towards a
(11:54):
two state solution would cause them to collapse the government.
And that's you know a large part of why we
are stuck exactly where we are.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
And Mark too has ready the embassy staff will killed
in Washington, DC this week. There have been fears of
the violence spilling over in communities outside of Israel and
passing charities too.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yes, I mean you know, the violence as it continues.
History suggests that this kind of violence will not stay
just within Gaza. You know that it will recruit for
Hamas and other groups that are you know, extremist groups
(12:40):
that are dedicated to the destruction of Israel. It will
recruit for them in the West Bank, within Israel, and
you know, perhaps elsewhere. You know, we don't know a
lot about the perpetrator of this or the suspective perpetrator
of these murders in Washington, but it is a risk
(13:01):
that is there, and it is you know, you know,
let's hope it doesn't happen, but history suggests that it's
almost inevitable.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Yeah, let's definitely hope for that. Ros just bringing it
back to what's happening here in the UK, obviously this
is also being closely watched in Britain. What do you
think here Starmer's position is going to be going forwards?
It is just an immensely difficult issue, this long running
(13:31):
conflict in the Middle East, but it has implications for
the UK.
Speaker 6 (13:36):
Well it does. And as you were just talking about this,
since the wars started and obviously beginning again with the
Hamas attack on Israel, we've seen episodes periodically of violence
in a number of countries, including here in the UK,
and we've seen tension over not just the Jewish community
(13:57):
but also the Islamic community here and so it's a
very delicate one for societies everywhere. But it'll be interesting
to see how it resonates for Kiirs Starmer because in
a way you might see a little bit of the well,
you know, we criticize our prime minister, but if you
come for our prime minister, you come for us in
this and really that very strong language from Benjaminette now
(14:20):
you you know, accusing the leader of the UK and
other countries of saying you're on the wrong side of
justice because you know, if baby killers are supporting you,
for example, I mean that kind of language may actually
serve to, you know, bring some support to Kis Starmer
on this again. You know that he's walking a very
delicate line, as we know, and he's walked it for
(14:41):
a while and he's obviously still trying to show support
for Israel's right to defend itself and to defang any
anti Semitic elements within his party. But also you know,
he's probably going to bring some support for his stance
of being quite critical over the latest humanitarian situation, and
(15:01):
you can see that potentially happening.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Also our EMBA News Director Roza mathieson international affairs columnst
much Happion. Thank you very much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
That's it from us for today. If you like the program,
don't forget to subscribe and give it five stars so
that other people can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify
or wherever you listen Our.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Ud Engineer with Sean Grastamachia.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I'm James Wilcock and I'm Caroline Hepkir. We'll be back
with more next week. This is Bloomberg
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Humanitarian aid needs to get in at place the current
situation in which we're seeing bombardment, including of children, and
the prospect of starvation. It is just intolerable.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Kiss Starmer made ending anti Semitism in the Labor Party
a core part of turning the page on Jeremy Corbyn's era,
and the Prime Minister has supported Israel's right to defend itself,
but now his view has changed.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
Hello, if you're listening to Bloomberg UK Politics, I'm Caroline Hepke.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
And I'm James Orcock. Many of the public will look
back on this week as one where Starmer changed his mind.
You turned on winter fuel allowances for pensioners and also
shifted his stance on a youth migration scheme with the EU.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
But it's on Israel that we want to linger today.
The Labor Party leader has staunchly backed the country ever
since he took over from Jeremy Corbyn. Indeed, Prime Minister
Kis Starmer expelled Corbyn from the party in a bid
to rid Labor of accusations of anti Semitism.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Which makes it all the more dramatic. Karen that this
week he denounced Israel alongside Canada's leader Mark Karney and
Francis Emmanuel Macaron. Starmer then found himself being accused of
inciting anti Semitism by none other than Israel's Prime Minister
Benjamin Ettiahi.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
I say to President Macron, Prime Minister Karney and Prime
Minister Starmer, when mass murderers, rapists, baby killers and kidnappers,
thank you. You're on the wrong side of justice, you're
on the wrong side of humanity, and you're on the
wrong side of history.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
So what has made Starmer change his mind this week?
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Well, joining us now is our EMEA news director Roslyn
Matheson and our Bloomberg opinion columnist Mark Champion. Welcome to
both of you, and thank you for being with us. Mark,
can I start with you. It's nineteen months since the
Hamas attack on Israel. Israel has barred AID into Gaza
for nearly three months. It's back to some trucks returning
(02:02):
to the territory. What is happening now in this conflict?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Well, you know, essentially you had a winding down some
months ago, and what has changed now is that you know,
first of all, in March, the Israelis decided to blockade
further aid going into Gaza, and then more recently they've
(02:36):
announced an expansion of the conflict and they've said that
they're going to move in clear population into the so
called safe zones and then deal once and for all
with Hamas. And it's this expansion of the war that has,
you know, combined with the blockade that came before, it's
(02:58):
that that has really turned you know, Israel's traditional allies,
many of them against it. They simply don't see the
value of continuing the war and they are, you know,
object very strongly to the way in which it's been conducted.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Ross Mark the mentioned that there's been a sort of
shifting position some of Israel's allies. Where are we seeing
that and why is it happening particularly this year.
Speaker 6 (03:30):
Well, it's larctually happening because humanitarian aid was cut off
for a number of months and is slowly resuming a
little bit. And the concerns have largely been around the
humanitarian situation inside Gaza, rising evidence of extreme hunger and
so on, and so the argument from European leaders, Starmer included, is,
(03:53):
you know, whatever's happening in the war, we cannot shut
off aid to the people who are still living in Gaza,
and that seems to have really escalated the rhetoric can
also just the signals from Israel that Benjamin Netanyahu is
determined to push on with this war again in a
very full throated way. You know, he's talking about essentially
(04:15):
flattening Gaza or what's left of it, and just continuing
and perhaps even increasing the war again militarily on the ground,
because he says that he still sees his goal as
eradicating Hamas once and for all. So it seems to
be both the escalation again of the fighting, the sense
of Israel's going to push on quite heavily militarily at
(04:37):
some point, perhaps an even more significant ground movement of
troops back into Gaza, and the worstening humanitarian situation, and
the concern that this conflict is going on with no
perceived end insight.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
In terms of Prime Minister Kissed Arma and Im Macon
and Mark Carney over in Canada, I mean, Israel has
accused them of rewarding her mass effectively, is what the
Israeli Prime Minister said. I mean, supporters of the Palestinian
people will say that this is long overdue, that they
actually said something. I suppose my question really, maybe Mark,
(05:16):
you can answer this, why now? And is is this
really a significant shift in terms of Israel's Western allies.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I think it is significant. I think that, you know,
we've reached a point. I mean there have been for
a long time, there's been criticism of some of Israel's
European allies for not doing more. There's concrete in order
to put pressure on the Israelis to abide by cease
fires and you know, to get the correct amounts of
(05:51):
aid in. I think it is changing now. Part of
it is that the language that Netanyahu and his is
some of his cabinet ministers are now using to describe
their goals for the war is you know, it is
openly stating what Israel was being accused of by its
(06:15):
critics before. Sotnyahu has recently said we are going to
reoccupy Gaza for the indefinite future, so it's openly talking
about occupation. Also talked about clearing, cleansing, uh, you know,
the territory. He was talking about Hamas. But the languages
(06:38):
is quite disturbing. And his Finance minister, Billel Smortovich has
gone even further and talking about how we need you know,
the territories have been conquered. So it's a it's a
change of you know, approach or a kind of open
(06:58):
acknowledgment of the Israel approach that makes it very difficult
actually for allies to say, you know, okay, we vackue
nineteen months after this terrible terrorist attack, we steal vack
you when what you're saying is we want that long
term occupation, we want to flatten it and you know,
talking about cleansing the territory. So I think this is
(07:22):
what really what has changed. It's just the clarity on
the Israeli side has made it very difficult for Western
leaders to continue backing net Yahoo.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
So was the shift in the global position towards Israel.
Will this have any effects on the country or on
Netan Yahoo?
Speaker 6 (07:44):
Well, that's the big question because arguably he is ever
more isolated. I mean, you do have the position shift
really in the UK from Kirs Starmer, who you know,
as Mark was saying, was working really hard to show
that the Labor Party is not anti submitting, but at
a point where you know, they really have to be
much more critical of Israel over Garza and the humanitarian
(08:08):
situation there and lockstep with other leaders in Europe and beyond.
But the question is what impact does that have because
Benjamin Netanier, who seems very determined for what it's worth
in terms of his agenda, and also in the face
of it seems the US President washing his hands of
Israel a little bit. You can see the relationship cooling
(08:29):
between Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanya, who the frustration because
Donald Trump wanted to seize far that's stuck in Gaza.
He wanted this to come to a close. And the
sense now is that if anything, Israel is escalating again militarily.
And so you can see from the Donald Trump's visit
to the region last week, he didn't go to Israel,
he didn't see Benjamin Netanya, who he's simply saying, you
(08:51):
sorted out, I'm leaving you to it. And so compounded,
what does that do. Does Benjamin netaw who feeling that
sense of isolation, really double down and say well, I'm
going to go it alone and I'm going to push
on either way. And does that also lead him beyond
Gaza potentially to take some kind of preemptive action against Iran.
(09:12):
So it's not just Gaza. Here, Now it's the question
of what also does he do potentially with Iran.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Yeah, immensely dangerous when you're talking about nuclear facilities in Iran.
Mark just in terms of what the international community, though,
can can do here in terms of an alternative solution
to this war on har Mas in Gaza and trying
(09:38):
to have some impact on the situation. As we know,
and as Roz was mentioning, their president Trump was in
the Middle East, did not go to Israel and was
focused on signing big deals with Saudi Arabia and UAE,
not on the deaths in Gaza.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yes, that's absolutely true. But I think the kind of
sad part of this is that it is a propitious
time to get a wider deal in the region. But
everything really hinges on the Israelis changing their policy in
(10:25):
Gaza and creating some kind of you know, instead of
pointing their process towards occupation and attempts to clear the
Palestinians out, which are always going to be unacceptable politically
for you know, the leaders in the region, they have
(10:45):
no choice but to reject that. But they are offering
to get involved the Saudi Is, the UAE, Egypt They've
got a plan they're offering to get involved in reconstruction.
They're saying, you know, their plan would bring the Palace,
the new authority into Gaza to you know, take over
from Hamas. Hamas has been willing to talk, but nothing
(11:09):
is really, uh, you know, gone very much further because
the Israelis are in control and basically unwilling. And the
larger part of this is that any solution that leaves
the Palestine is where they are ultimately returns to the
question of a two state solution, which is still you know,
(11:31):
the default position of the international community, but it is
something that Netann Yahoo and in particular some of the
parties in his coalition, are absolutely opposed to, and those
his coalition partners have made it very clear that anything
that smacks of ending the war and moving towards a
(11:54):
two state solution would cause them to collapse the government.
And that's you know a large part of why we
are stuck exactly where we are.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
And Mark too has ready the embassy staff will killed
in Washington, DC this week. There have been fears of
the violence spilling over in communities outside of Israel and
passing charities too.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yes, I mean you know, the violence as it continues.
History suggests that this kind of violence will not stay
just within Gaza. You know that it will recruit for
Hamas and other groups that are you know, extremist groups
(12:40):
that are dedicated to the destruction of Israel. It will
recruit for them in the West Bank, within Israel, and
you know, perhaps elsewhere. You know, we don't know a
lot about the perpetrator of this or the suspective perpetrator
of these murders in Washington, but it is a risk
(13:01):
that is there, and it is you know, you know,
let's hope it doesn't happen, but history suggests that it's
almost inevitable.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Yeah, let's definitely hope for that. Ros just bringing it
back to what's happening here in the UK, obviously this
is also being closely watched in Britain. What do you
think here Starmer's position is going to be going forwards?
It is just an immensely difficult issue, this long running
(13:31):
conflict in the Middle East, but it has implications for
the UK.
Speaker 6 (13:36):
Well it does. And as you were just talking about this,
since the wars started and obviously beginning again with the
Hamas attack on Israel, we've seen episodes periodically of violence
in a number of countries, including here in the UK,
and we've seen tension over not just the Jewish community
(13:57):
but also the Islamic community here and so it's a
very delicate one for societies everywhere. But it'll be interesting
to see how it resonates for Kiirs Starmer because in
a way you might see a little bit of the well,
you know, we criticize our prime minister, but if you
come for our prime minister, you come for us in
this and really that very strong language from Benjaminette now
(14:20):
you you know, accusing the leader of the UK and
other countries of saying you're on the wrong side of
justice because you know, if baby killers are supporting you,
for example, I mean that kind of language may actually
serve to, you know, bring some support to Kis Starmer
on this again. You know that he's walking a very
delicate line, as we know, and he's walked it for
(14:41):
a while and he's obviously still trying to show support
for Israel's right to defend itself and to defang any
anti Semitic elements within his party. But also you know,
he's probably going to bring some support for his stance
of being quite critical over the latest humanitarian situation, and
(15:01):
you can see that potentially happening.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Also our EMBA News Director Roza mathieson international affairs columnst
much Happion. Thank you very much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
That's it from us for today. If you like the program,
don't forget to subscribe and give it five stars so
that other people can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify
or wherever you listen Our.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Ud Engineer with Sean Grastamachia.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I'm James Wilcock and I'm Caroline Hepkir. We'll be back
with more next week. This is Bloomberg
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