November 12, 2024 • 26 mins
It’s hard to believe it’s only been a week since the US presidential election. First Friend Elon Musk has been very busy—from talking on the phone to world leaders to racking up billions of dollars in additional wealth as Tesla stock soars (thanks to widespread expectations of presidential favor). To hash all of this out, Bloomberg Businessweek senior writer Max Chafkin leads a discussion with Bloomberg technology editor Sarah Frier, Elon Musk reporter Dana Hull and wealth reporter Tom Maloney.
And we look at a new feud: Musk versus pop star Olivia Rodrigo. She had said that she asks men on first dates if they want to go to space—and if they say yes, “it’s just weird.” We’ll be looking for his response to this shot to the man-o-sphere.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Worst case scenario if our planet falls apart, we can
all go to Mars with the other man that we
love and trust.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Elon Musk, You are right, check it out, Doc Mega.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
Yeah, but seriously, I run the country now, and it's
gonna be like one of my rockheads. You know, that's
super cool and super fun. But this slideshads a good
blow up and everybody dies.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Ha ha, I'm Doc Mega. See in the White House,
US say, us say, well.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
More than half the satellites in space are owned and
controlled by one man. Well, he's a legitimate, super genius, legitimate.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
He says.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will
be different.
Speaker 6 (01:04):
He'll vote Republican.
Speaker 5 (01:05):
There is a reason the US government is so reliant
on him.
Speaker 6 (01:08):
Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
I think anything he does, he's fascinating the people.
Speaker 6 (01:24):
Welcome to Elon Inc. Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk.
That was from Saturday Night Live, sending up Elon Musk's
big week in politics. Today is Tuesday, November twelve. I'm
your host, Max Chafkin, standing in for David Papadopoulos. It's
hard to believe that the election was only a week ago.
It feels to me anyway like Elon Musk has been
vice president for years, which is only slightly a joke,
(01:47):
because Musk's role in this election has been staggering. Today,
we're going to break that down in multiple ways. We
are joined by our regulars, Sarah fryar head a Big
Tech coverage Hello, Sarah, Hello, Dana Hull are one and
only Elon Musk reporter, Hey, Dana.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Elon belongs to all of us, Hey, Hey.
Speaker 6 (02:07):
And then later on we'll be joined by a new guest,
Tom Maloney, a member of Bloomberg's wealth team, who will
come and talk to us about Musk's money before we
get there. Just to catch people up if you weren't
following this on Twitter or on the news or wherever else.
Elon has basically been camped out in mar A Lago
(02:29):
for the week. He went there for the victory party
and Dan I think he actually did leave briefly to
go to Texas, but more or less, he's with Trump
now right. He's at the right hand of the soon
to be president of the United States.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, I think he briefly went home to Austin, but
then he went back and there's all these photographs of him,
like sitting around with Trump at the golf course and
hanging out with the whole extended Trump clan, and he
posted something about how like it was a great first
day of the transition team, Like he is totally camped
out there and like talking to foreign leaders.
Speaker 6 (03:02):
Sarah, what is going on with this aspect of kind
of like the Elon Musk transition era or whatever, Like
these family photos. There was a family photo on election night,
I believe, posted by Kai Trump, who's Trump's granddaughter, where
like all the Trump's are there, but there's no Millenia
and no JD Vance And then there's Elon Musk.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
Is Elon trying to what do we take away from this?
Speaker 7 (03:26):
He's getting his money's worth. I mean, I think we've
always known that Donald Trump is a bit of a
favor operated president, and Elon Musk just gave him the
biggest favor of all, helping him score the presidency and
giving him the full support of a media organization in
x And that is loyalty that Trump recognizes, and it
(03:50):
is going to be very powerful. It's going to make
that whole forty four billion Twitter acquisition worth it if
he can maintain the relationship. So now it's really important
that Musk, I guess, continued to show up for Trump
and continue to stay on his side because there's a
lot at stake. There's the government contracts, there's influence over
(04:11):
over future policy, there's influence over foreign policy. He may
have a hand in picking the Senate majority leader. This
is this is a key moment for Elon Muskin and
honestly for Donald Trump.
Speaker 6 (04:22):
Elon's foreign policy, as far as I could tell ahead
of the election, is sort of twofold. He's he's a peacenick,
I guess like he's He has made comments about not
wanting to have too many wars happen, and he's also
very much in favor of maximizing the contracts that are
given to his companies. Dana, were you surprised by this
call with Zelenski, the president of Ukraine, especially given Musk's
(04:46):
all separate relationship with Vladimir Putin, the president of Russia.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Not really, I mean the sense that I got was that,
like Trump and Elon were probably just like hanging out
and world leaders recalling and like, so Trump put them
on speaker and sort of let them know that Elon
was there in the room. That could be wrong, but
that's like, that's my assumption, And no, I think it's
like very very normal Elon. I mean, Elon is like
(05:09):
a transnational actor, right, he has relationships with foreign governments
on his own, independent of our State Department, and he
talks to foreign leaders all the time. So like these
are people that Musk also knows. I think it's just
where it's unprecedented for government to sort of operate this way.
I mean, we've never had a corporate CEO or a
(05:30):
billionaire like literally right there like side by side with
the President elect, helping to shape the transition team and
like taking all these calls with foreign leaders in such
a stark way before. So that's what's really striking. But
it doesn't surprise me that the Trump patched Elon in
or that Elon.
Speaker 6 (05:47):
Is doing this. Yeah, I believe we've also seen reports
of calls with the leader of Turkey as well as
I think, Dana, you sent me a news story this
morning about a Serbia right kind of a near East portfolio,
I guess for now, Sarah. You mentioned also domestic politics,
(06:07):
Elon sort of created a poll, I guess, to see
who should be the Senate majority leader.
Speaker 7 (06:12):
We're talking about a man who sees no boundaries between
his companies. He mix and matches talent where he needs
it to go, whether that's a SpaceX or boring or X.
He has certain people that he really trusts, and certain
people who are as allies and certain people who are
as enemies, and he doesn't really see the silos of like,
(06:35):
this is the team for boring companies. So I'm you know,
cannibalizing that if I take them to neuralink, whatever thing
is on fire, he turns his attention to. And so
this is a moment for him to just go into
launch mode really with the US government.
Speaker 6 (06:52):
Okay, so in the next couple of months, there's going
to be this jockeying among all these people who who
want to have influence in the White House, and I
feel like we're maybe already seeing a little bit of that.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
Jocking.
Speaker 6 (07:06):
Howard Lutnik went on CNN and he described Musk's role
in the you know, in the new administration in what
I would say are kind of narrow terms. He said, Oh,
he's going to write some software and then give us
that software. He's gonna he's not going to be part
of the government. He's not going to be making decisions.
What do you make of that? Like, and do you
(07:27):
think is that how Elon understands it? Is that actually
what he's going to do what's happening right now?
Speaker 7 (07:32):
Also, it just is so imagine you could just write
software and give it to the government and say here
you go, Now your government's fixed. Like, that's just not
how the government works, and that's not how Elon works.
What I imagine might happen is We've talked about this before,
but the Department of Government Efficiency, the DOGE leadership type
(07:53):
of job that Trump is thinking of giving Musk would
really allow him to be in charge of slash and
burn the way he was at X. I imagine him
going into these agencies and saying, who are your most
productive people? Who can you afford to lose? Send me
a list of your accomplishments this week and every week.
(08:15):
You know, how many lines of code have you written?
Like that sort of thing that he did it X
and replicating it for the US government to the extent
that the law allows him to.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
I think one question I have is just about the
epics of it all. Like today, John Paulson, who a
lot of people had been floating to be Treasury Secretary,
basically came out and he said, like, I'm ecstatic that
Trump is in office, but my complex financial obligations would
prevent me from holding an official position and President Trump's
administration at this time. So Paulson is basically a no
(08:46):
for Treasury secretary.
Speaker 6 (08:48):
So I love that. Imagine having such complex financial arrangements.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
No one has more complex financial arrangements than Elon Musk.
He runs six companies. SpaceX is an annoy ormous government contractor,
Tesla is a huge beneficiary of the Inflation Reduction Act.
So like, that's my big question, Like is this doge
thing just an advisory role that allows him to keep
all of his companies, And in that sense, if it's
(09:15):
only advisory, like what is the actual remit or does
he actually have like a job job in the government,
And in which case does he have to abide by
ethical rules or are those ethical rules about to go
out the window.
Speaker 6 (09:27):
I mean, my take is that he's definitely not going
to join the administration. I feel like Trump has said it.
Lutnick said it the other day. You know, Trump has
said repeatedly on the on the stump during the campaign,
like he doesn't have enough time to do this. And
I think you're right, Dan, and like it's not just
because it would be complicated in the John Paulson sense,
(09:47):
although who knows what's behind that complication. It's that Elon
Musk doesn't want to right the whole point. And I
think he's made as clear of like joining the administration
or taking on an advisory role is so it can
help his companies. It's not like he doesn't want to
give that the That's the whole point of this is
my reading. But I do think it makes you wonder
(10:09):
how long could this last? And like should we already
be on Like, you know, Elon Musk Trump feud watch.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
I think you're gonna see some real tests of Musk's
power this week, right, Like who is the Senate majority
leader going to be? Like Musk has thrown his weight
behind Scott, who's like not particularly popular among the Senate.
So like is the non Maga wing of the Republican
Party going to try to be like a check and
balance to that and similarly, like a least stephonic right,
like Musk was saying, Oh, she's great, but she should
(10:39):
really stay in the house, But she's not staying in
the house, like she's just been nominated to be the
delegate to the un So like Musk isn't getting everything
that he wants, even though he's being very public about
what he wants. And so it'll just be interesting to see,
like behind the scenes within the Republican Party, like what
efforts are ma to kind of be a check on
(11:00):
what seems to be his unbridled power right now.
Speaker 7 (11:03):
It would be hard if you're a politician and you
have to be feeling the whiplash of Trump's leadership already,
right he changes his mind based on who he talked
to last, he tweets about it or posts about it,
and then the whole government has to shift to be
(11:23):
loyal to something like that and then simultaneously be loyal
to Elon Musk, who has similar behavioral characteristics of you know,
being very strong minded about what he thinks is the
best way to do things that seems very difficult. And
also the idea that Musk is is very much in
the spotlight you know, on stage pictured with Trump. For
(11:47):
how long is Trump going to be able to seed
the spotlight to Elon Musk?
Speaker 6 (11:57):
Okay, So huge week for Elon in politics and there's
gonna be lots for us to talk about in the
weeks to come.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
But it was.
Speaker 6 (12:05):
Also a huge week for Elon's bank account. And to
break that down, we have the perfect guest, Tom Maloney,
a member of Bloomberg's wealth team who has been crunching
the numbers on Elon Musk's wealth and is coming to
talk about it.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
Tom, Thanks for being on Eloni. Thanks bys Tom. How
wealthy is Elon Musk?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
He's worth more than three hundred and thirty billion, so
he's very near he's wealthiest ever, which was about three
hundred and forty billion. About two thirds of that comes
from Tesla stock and options, and then a big chunk
of that comes from SpaceX that's valued about two hundred
and ten billion earns forty two percent of that then XII, Twitter,
Neuralink boring company kind of around the rest of that album.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
So were you on the well team, were you guys
like preparing for what happened last week? I mean, and
if people don't know the Tesla stock went up like crazy.
I think was around forty up to forty percent as
of yesterday, I believe as a Monday, and that sent
Musk's wealth up, I don't know, from the election night
to now, what's the game been.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
More than seventy billion. And just to put that in context,
seventy billion is the net worth of Charles Koch, who's
the twenty second richest person on the planet, and Musk
has out of that in a week.
Speaker 6 (13:16):
Yeah. I found this really interesting just because, like before
the election, and you know, we've been telling this story
over several years of all the problems at Twitter. He's
possibly lost I don't know, twenty or thirty billion dollars
Sarah right on on the acquisition of Twitter. But it's
like he made it all back in three days.
Speaker 7 (13:37):
It's wild And this is what we were talking about
when he acquired Twitter, right, Like, this is really not
about the money now.
Speaker 6 (13:46):
Right.
Speaker 7 (13:46):
If you look at Twitter and you look at what
it makes and what it does and how big it
is and how it's shrinking, there's no way that's worth
forty four billion, And that's exactly what financial analysts looking
at as But you know, our colleague Kurt Wagner how
to call him this week, forty four billion looks cheap
if you're Elon Musk and you have as much money
as he does to gain this level of influence over
(14:08):
the US government and the future of policy.
Speaker 6 (14:11):
Yeah, I think we need to start. I mean, and
I feel like if you've been listening to this podcast
for a year, you are not going to be surprised.
But like, there aren't like what six companies, and I
guess now a seventh company with America Pack. There's like
one Elon Musk conglomerate. And Twitter is the media arm
of the Elon Musk conglomerate, right, Dana.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Oh yeah, absolutely, one hundred percent. And like we need
to stop kind of thinking of it as like this
failing business that has alienated advertisers and is losing users
left and right. Like it has served it is serving
its purpose as a megaphone for Musk his politics for
now the Trump administration, I mean, for every you know,
journalists and epidemiologists and climate scientists who's like leaving X
(14:55):
to go join Blue Sky. A lot of Republicans are
now using it because it really it is like the
media arm of the Republican Party, and it's kind of
become what truth Social set out to be a while ago.
And so yeah, I think your framing is totally right.
Speaker 6 (15:09):
Max.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
This is the media wing of ELIN Inc.
Speaker 6 (15:13):
Tom, have you started thinking about or is it worth
starting to think about an exit for Twitter? And when
you guys are thinking about valuation of Twitter, like, how
much is it worth if Tesla's valuation goes up forty
percent just based on kind of like the magic of
having President elec Donald Trump, Like, what does that do
to Twitter's valuation?
Speaker 5 (15:33):
How does that affect his net worth? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Look, that's a good question. Could he tenant into a mainstalk?
I mean you look at Trump media and technology, right,
It's got truth Social, which is made like a million
dollars lost quota. It's financially it's terrible, and yet it's
valued at something like seven or eight billion dollars. So Twitter,
by that comparison should be with multiple multiple times of that.
Speaker 6 (15:54):
One of the things that Elon said right up right
before the election, and he reiterated it in a tweet
this morning was the idea that America pack is going
to continue putting money into politics. And I think part
of why he's doing that is because it's a way
to you know, create some leverage over what's happening in
(16:15):
the White House right now. Tom, Like, can he just
spend a couple hundred million dollars every couple of years
without without incident or like, at what point do those
liquidity problems that we've talked about with Elon Musk, the
fact that like most of his net worth is in
Tesla stock and options, when does that start to become
a problem.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Like, I think a couple hundred million is pretty easy
for him to come up with. I mean, he ran
into problems when he bought Twitter, and that's when he
had to sell a bunch of Tesla shes. There were
margin calls, there were problems with his margin loan that
was you know, forty four billion dollars and that was
a big purchase, right and that was a struggle for him.
But coming up with half a billion dollars a year
(16:55):
at this point, that's that's pretty straightforward. We don't know
much about liquidity at this point. He's margin loan with
Tesla stock has come down a lot. They limited that
to three and a half billion after the Twitter fiasco.
He could probably borrow against SpaceX. That's a private company,
so it's a little bit trickier in terms of liquidity,
but for private companies, it's probably the most liquid one
(17:16):
in the world, or at least right up there. So
he has ways of raising money, and certainly coming up
with that sort of money I think is very easy
for him.
Speaker 6 (17:29):
How do you think about what SpaceX is worth and
how much what this stuff that we've heard about and
talked about and that Dana and I on the on
the Citizen Elon podcast which is all about the election
that we've talked about, like, how do you figure out
how that's going to be how much that's going to
be worth to Elon?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
I mean, from a perspective evaluation, we only care about
what it's worth now. But if you're asking what is
going to drive his wealth in the future, I mean
you've got to think SpaceX and XAI is where the
most potential is, especially with Tesla. But it's worth versus
you know what its revenue is and how many cars
it's selling. It's it's hard to imagine the trajectory it's
(18:07):
on now kind of continuing indefinitely, and it's come down
a lot in the past. I mean, Mosca is the
only person in the world who's lost more than two
hundred billion at some point as well. So he's always
had a volatile fortune and that's because of Tesla SpaceX though,
So that's a company that is a huge amount of
potential and XAI, even if that was worth as much
(18:28):
as open Ai, then that would boost his fortune by multiples,
you know, he would add another one hundred billion or
something to his fortune.
Speaker 6 (18:35):
Did SpaceX's value also go up overnight when Trump got elected?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
No, well we don't. We look at when it was
last valued, So that was back in June when it
did a fundraising at two hundred and ten billion. Do
I think it's worth that now, No, I think it's
probably worth substing.
Speaker 6 (18:49):
But in terms of the Bloomberg model, which is what
you're citing exactly, the big appreciation is just.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
In his Tesla shares.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I'm guessing most of it he's added about the seventy
bills that he's added in the last week comes from
his Tesla sches. This year he's added about one hundred billion,
and I think the rest of that comes from XII
and SPICEX.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
Sarah, just stepping back a minute from Elon Musk and
just looking at the world of Silicon Valley, how do
you think this is going to be processed by like
the other you know, want to be oligarchs in the
tech industry, the people who you know, there are a
lot of people who really look up to Elon, Like
are people just seeing this as like, oh my god,
(19:30):
this his bet paid off, Like now I need to
somehow either get close to Trump or get get into politics,
or like how is this playing kind of in the
wider world of Silicon Valley.
Speaker 7 (19:41):
I think there's sort of two camps that I see.
There's the the people who are now going very silent
because they don't want to ruffle Elon's feathers or Truan's
feathers or you know, try to make any waves and
they want to stay in good graces just for being technologists.
And then then there are people that are clearly trying
(20:02):
to angle to to have to think about like how
Elon got what he got, and I'm sure that we'll
see a lot more trying to replicate that success for
their businesses. I do think that there might be a
backlash to all this culturally, Like I think that there
was already you know, and I think you and I
(20:23):
were talking about this yesterday, Max, like the era of
like tech optimism about growth and designing the future, and
we were just seeing a lot of like cultural backlash
to the idea of Musks so close to the government
and like what that might mean for all of us.
And then there are people that hope that his proximity
(20:44):
to Trump means that Trump's climate policies won't be as
much of a disaster.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
I love the theory that like Musk isn't actually right
wing Mega, He's just like pretending to be right wing
magass so he can sort of trojan horse it and
like get into the government and then can vince Musk
that they's trojanhorsing it and is going to convince Trump
that electric vehicles are great, windmills aren't so bad, solar
energy is the future, and I mean, if that came
(21:11):
to pass, that would be remarkable. I don't believe in
that theory personally, but that is a theory.
Speaker 6 (21:16):
Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's totally runs counter
to almost everything he said and Trump said over the
last year. Right, all right, Dana, we are going to
let you go and get back to the important business
of reporting on on the crazy things that are happening.
Speaker 5 (21:32):
I'll see you soon. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Take care.
Speaker 6 (21:38):
So Sarah brought up this idea of a tech lash,
and I think we actually got a preview this week
and we're going to talk about it for our semi
regular feud segment few to the week, and this one
stars cultural icon Olivia Rodrigo against I guess guys who
want to go to space?
Speaker 5 (21:54):
Let's give a listen the guests my vig.
Speaker 8 (21:57):
Okay, this is a very odd specific question that I
ask guys on first dates. I always ask them if
they think that they would want to go to space,
and if they say yes, I don't date. I just
think if you want to go to space, you're a
little too full of yourself. I think it's just weird.
Speaker 6 (22:18):
Uh, Sarah, she's talking about Elon Musk, right, Oh?
Speaker 7 (22:22):
Absolutely. I mean I think that this is a theme
I've also seen in it is. It's really not just
Elon Musk. It's this idea of like men who are
so disconnected from human connection and how to actually develop
human connection. They're so deeply invested in this Musk world
(22:42):
and like the Manisphere. I've seen other kind of tech
lash cultural tweets like this and memes where people are like, oh,
if you suggest that I use chat GBT to solve
a problem on the first date, Like, I'm you know,
you're not going to get a second date.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
I think this is really bad for Elon Musk.
Speaker 6 (22:59):
I mean, I know this is not obviously you know,
this isn't a ROBOTAXI you know, crashing or something. This
isn't this isn't a rocket failing to launch. But this
seems like the canary in the coal mine that could
pretend what Sarah is talking about tom a you know,
monumental tech lash, a tech lash where basically all the
(23:20):
cool people decide that like Elon Musk and anybody like
him doesn't belong in their community.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
I mean, what do you make of this?
Speaker 6 (23:28):
How are you incorporating this into the Bloomberg billionaires model?
Speaker 2 (23:34):
I feel like Musk has always wanted to be cool
but has always been on the outside, and this is
just kind of more of the same. Right, So is
this really going to change his trajectory in any way?
Speaker 6 (23:45):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I mean, it's just one more blow and he's going
to just continue with his quest to go to space
and hopefully he'll make more like minded people on Moss.
Speaker 6 (23:55):
So Sarah, again, I don't want to make too much
of this, but in a more in a more serious sense,
like do you think that this could like slow things
down culturally? I mean, I think we probably need to
get ready for some version of, you know, resistance to
point zero, and maybe a resistance that's more directed at
tech guys than the last one was.
Speaker 7 (24:17):
I mean, just look at the reasons that people voted
for Trump on a macro scale, Like people are unsatisfied
with how expensive everything is, how difficult life is, how
much childcare costs.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
You know, when people are.
Speaker 7 (24:31):
Dissatisfied with the state of their lives and their spending
power and their futures, they vote for the alternative. And
in a moment like that, saying well, let's just go
to space, is it's like, well, let's just forget about
fixing the stuff that is broken on Earth and stop
trying to do anything about it and instead invest in
(24:55):
some future that is very expensive and who knows if
it'll work.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Fine words, Tom, No, but I gotta say I've always
kind of wanted to go to space. So I feel
a little bit hurt by Rigo's comments.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
Sarah, what do you think is going to space a
a red flag?
Speaker 6 (25:12):
No? I don't.
Speaker 7 (25:13):
I mean, I don't think so.
Speaker 6 (25:14):
I think.
Speaker 7 (25:14):
I mean like I'm a tech reporter, right, Like I
think innovation is cool, but I also think that there
are other problems that people on Earth probably want to
be solved first or in conjunction with that.
Speaker 6 (25:28):
Let's leave it there. We'll be paying attention to those
problems in the Weisa come, Sarah, Tom.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
Thanks for being on Elon Inc.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 6 (25:43):
This episode was produced by Stacy Wong. Anna Maserakas is
our editor and Rayhan Harmanci our senior editor. The idea
for this show also came from Rayhan Blake Maple's Handles
Engineering and Emma Sanchez fact checks. Our supervising producer is
Magnus Henrickson. The Elin is written and performed by Taka
Yazuzawa and Alex Sigierra. Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer,
(26:06):
and Sage Bauman is the head.
Speaker 5 (26:07):
Of Bloomberg Podcast.
Speaker 6 (26:09):
A big thanks to our supporters Joel Weber and Brad Stone.
I'm Max Chafkin. If you have a minute rate and
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we will see you next week.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Worst case scenario if our planet falls apart, we can
all go to Mars with the other man that we
love and trust.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Elon Musk, You are right, check it out, Doc Mega.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
Yeah, but seriously, I run the country now, and it's
gonna be like one of my rockheads. You know, that's
super cool and super fun. But this slideshads a good
blow up and everybody dies.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Ha ha, I'm Doc Mega. See in the White House,
US say, us say, well.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
More than half the satellites in space are owned and
controlled by one man. Well, he's a legitimate, super genius, legitimate.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
He says.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will
be different.
Speaker 6 (01:04):
He'll vote Republican.
Speaker 5 (01:05):
There is a reason the US government is so reliant
on him.
Speaker 6 (01:08):
Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
I think anything he does, he's fascinating the people.
Speaker 6 (01:24):
Welcome to Elon Inc. Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk.
That was from Saturday Night Live, sending up Elon Musk's
big week in politics. Today is Tuesday, November twelve. I'm
your host, Max Chafkin, standing in for David Papadopoulos. It's
hard to believe that the election was only a week ago.
It feels to me anyway like Elon Musk has been
vice president for years, which is only slightly a joke,
(01:47):
because Musk's role in this election has been staggering. Today,
we're going to break that down in multiple ways. We
are joined by our regulars, Sarah fryar head a Big
Tech coverage Hello, Sarah, Hello, Dana Hull are one and
only Elon Musk reporter, Hey, Dana.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Elon belongs to all of us, Hey, Hey.
Speaker 6 (02:07):
And then later on we'll be joined by a new guest,
Tom Maloney, a member of Bloomberg's wealth team, who will
come and talk to us about Musk's money before we
get there. Just to catch people up if you weren't
following this on Twitter or on the news or wherever else.
Elon has basically been camped out in mar A Lago
(02:29):
for the week. He went there for the victory party
and Dan I think he actually did leave briefly to
go to Texas, but more or less, he's with Trump
now right. He's at the right hand of the soon
to be president of the United States.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, I think he briefly went home to Austin, but
then he went back and there's all these photographs of him,
like sitting around with Trump at the golf course and
hanging out with the whole extended Trump clan, and he
posted something about how like it was a great first
day of the transition team, Like he is totally camped
out there and like talking to foreign leaders.
Speaker 6 (03:02):
Sarah, what is going on with this aspect of kind
of like the Elon Musk transition era or whatever, Like
these family photos. There was a family photo on election night,
I believe, posted by Kai Trump, who's Trump's granddaughter, where
like all the Trump's are there, but there's no Millenia
and no JD Vance And then there's Elon Musk.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
Is Elon trying to what do we take away from this?
Speaker 7 (03:26):
He's getting his money's worth. I mean, I think we've
always known that Donald Trump is a bit of a
favor operated president, and Elon Musk just gave him the
biggest favor of all, helping him score the presidency and
giving him the full support of a media organization in
x And that is loyalty that Trump recognizes, and it
(03:50):
is going to be very powerful. It's going to make
that whole forty four billion Twitter acquisition worth it if
he can maintain the relationship. So now it's really important
that Musk, I guess, continued to show up for Trump
and continue to stay on his side because there's a
lot at stake. There's the government contracts, there's influence over
(04:11):
over future policy, there's influence over foreign policy. He may
have a hand in picking the Senate majority leader. This
is this is a key moment for Elon Muskin and
honestly for Donald Trump.
Speaker 6 (04:22):
Elon's foreign policy, as far as I could tell ahead
of the election, is sort of twofold. He's he's a peacenick,
I guess like he's He has made comments about not
wanting to have too many wars happen, and he's also
very much in favor of maximizing the contracts that are
given to his companies. Dana, were you surprised by this
call with Zelenski, the president of Ukraine, especially given Musk's
(04:46):
all separate relationship with Vladimir Putin, the president of Russia.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Not really, I mean the sense that I got was that,
like Trump and Elon were probably just like hanging out
and world leaders recalling and like, so Trump put them
on speaker and sort of let them know that Elon
was there in the room. That could be wrong, but
that's like, that's my assumption, And no, I think it's
like very very normal Elon. I mean, Elon is like
(05:09):
a transnational actor, right, he has relationships with foreign governments
on his own, independent of our State Department, and he
talks to foreign leaders all the time. So like these
are people that Musk also knows. I think it's just
where it's unprecedented for government to sort of operate this way.
I mean, we've never had a corporate CEO or a
(05:30):
billionaire like literally right there like side by side with
the President elect, helping to shape the transition team and
like taking all these calls with foreign leaders in such
a stark way before. So that's what's really striking. But
it doesn't surprise me that the Trump patched Elon in
or that Elon.
Speaker 6 (05:47):
Is doing this. Yeah, I believe we've also seen reports
of calls with the leader of Turkey as well as
I think, Dana, you sent me a news story this
morning about a Serbia right kind of a near East portfolio,
I guess for now, Sarah. You mentioned also domestic politics,
(06:07):
Elon sort of created a poll, I guess, to see
who should be the Senate majority leader.
Speaker 7 (06:12):
We're talking about a man who sees no boundaries between
his companies. He mix and matches talent where he needs
it to go, whether that's a SpaceX or boring or X.
He has certain people that he really trusts, and certain
people who are as allies and certain people who are
as enemies, and he doesn't really see the silos of like,
(06:35):
this is the team for boring companies. So I'm you know,
cannibalizing that if I take them to neuralink, whatever thing
is on fire, he turns his attention to. And so
this is a moment for him to just go into
launch mode really with the US government.
Speaker 6 (06:52):
Okay, so in the next couple of months, there's going
to be this jockeying among all these people who who
want to have influence in the White House, and I
feel like we're maybe already seeing a little bit of that.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
Jocking.
Speaker 6 (07:06):
Howard Lutnik went on CNN and he described Musk's role
in the you know, in the new administration in what
I would say are kind of narrow terms. He said, Oh,
he's going to write some software and then give us
that software. He's gonna he's not going to be part
of the government. He's not going to be making decisions.
What do you make of that? Like, and do you
(07:27):
think is that how Elon understands it? Is that actually
what he's going to do what's happening right now?
Speaker 7 (07:32):
Also, it just is so imagine you could just write
software and give it to the government and say here
you go, Now your government's fixed. Like, that's just not
how the government works, and that's not how Elon works.
What I imagine might happen is We've talked about this before,
but the Department of Government Efficiency, the DOGE leadership type
(07:53):
of job that Trump is thinking of giving Musk would
really allow him to be in charge of slash and
burn the way he was at X. I imagine him
going into these agencies and saying, who are your most
productive people? Who can you afford to lose? Send me
a list of your accomplishments this week and every week.
(08:15):
You know, how many lines of code have you written?
Like that sort of thing that he did it X
and replicating it for the US government to the extent
that the law allows him to.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
I think one question I have is just about the
epics of it all. Like today, John Paulson, who a
lot of people had been floating to be Treasury Secretary,
basically came out and he said, like, I'm ecstatic that
Trump is in office, but my complex financial obligations would
prevent me from holding an official position and President Trump's
administration at this time. So Paulson is basically a no
(08:46):
for Treasury secretary.
Speaker 6 (08:48):
So I love that. Imagine having such complex financial arrangements.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
No one has more complex financial arrangements than Elon Musk.
He runs six companies. SpaceX is an annoy ormous government contractor,
Tesla is a huge beneficiary of the Inflation Reduction Act.
So like, that's my big question, Like is this doge
thing just an advisory role that allows him to keep
all of his companies, And in that sense, if it's
(09:15):
only advisory, like what is the actual remit or does
he actually have like a job job in the government,
And in which case does he have to abide by
ethical rules or are those ethical rules about to go
out the window.
Speaker 6 (09:27):
I mean, my take is that he's definitely not going
to join the administration. I feel like Trump has said it.
Lutnick said it the other day. You know, Trump has
said repeatedly on the on the stump during the campaign,
like he doesn't have enough time to do this. And
I think you're right, Dan, and like it's not just
because it would be complicated in the John Paulson sense,
(09:47):
although who knows what's behind that complication. It's that Elon
Musk doesn't want to right the whole point. And I
think he's made as clear of like joining the administration
or taking on an advisory role is so it can
help his companies. It's not like he doesn't want to
give that the That's the whole point of this is
my reading. But I do think it makes you wonder
(10:09):
how long could this last? And like should we already
be on Like, you know, Elon Musk Trump feud watch.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
I think you're gonna see some real tests of Musk's
power this week, right, Like who is the Senate majority
leader going to be? Like Musk has thrown his weight
behind Scott, who's like not particularly popular among the Senate.
So like is the non Maga wing of the Republican
Party going to try to be like a check and
balance to that and similarly, like a least stephonic right,
like Musk was saying, Oh, she's great, but she should
(10:39):
really stay in the house, But she's not staying in
the house, like she's just been nominated to be the
delegate to the un So like Musk isn't getting everything
that he wants, even though he's being very public about
what he wants. And so it'll just be interesting to see,
like behind the scenes within the Republican Party, like what
efforts are ma to kind of be a check on
(11:00):
what seems to be his unbridled power right now.
Speaker 7 (11:03):
It would be hard if you're a politician and you
have to be feeling the whiplash of Trump's leadership already,
right he changes his mind based on who he talked
to last, he tweets about it or posts about it,
and then the whole government has to shift to be
(11:23):
loyal to something like that and then simultaneously be loyal
to Elon Musk, who has similar behavioral characteristics of you know,
being very strong minded about what he thinks is the
best way to do things that seems very difficult. And
also the idea that Musk is is very much in
the spotlight you know, on stage pictured with Trump. For
(11:47):
how long is Trump going to be able to seed
the spotlight to Elon Musk?
Speaker 6 (11:57):
Okay, So huge week for Elon in politics and there's
gonna be lots for us to talk about in the
weeks to come.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
But it was.
Speaker 6 (12:05):
Also a huge week for Elon's bank account. And to
break that down, we have the perfect guest, Tom Maloney,
a member of Bloomberg's wealth team who has been crunching
the numbers on Elon Musk's wealth and is coming to
talk about it.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
Tom, Thanks for being on Eloni. Thanks bys Tom. How
wealthy is Elon Musk?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
He's worth more than three hundred and thirty billion, so
he's very near he's wealthiest ever, which was about three
hundred and forty billion. About two thirds of that comes
from Tesla stock and options, and then a big chunk
of that comes from SpaceX that's valued about two hundred
and ten billion earns forty two percent of that then XII, Twitter,
Neuralink boring company kind of around the rest of that album.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
So were you on the well team, were you guys
like preparing for what happened last week? I mean, and
if people don't know the Tesla stock went up like crazy.
I think was around forty up to forty percent as
of yesterday, I believe as a Monday, and that sent
Musk's wealth up, I don't know, from the election night
to now, what's the game been.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
More than seventy billion. And just to put that in context,
seventy billion is the net worth of Charles Koch, who's
the twenty second richest person on the planet, and Musk
has out of that in a week.
Speaker 6 (13:16):
Yeah. I found this really interesting just because, like before
the election, and you know, we've been telling this story
over several years of all the problems at Twitter. He's
possibly lost I don't know, twenty or thirty billion dollars
Sarah right on on the acquisition of Twitter. But it's
like he made it all back in three days.
Speaker 7 (13:37):
It's wild And this is what we were talking about
when he acquired Twitter, right, Like, this is really not
about the money now.
Speaker 6 (13:46):
Right.
Speaker 7 (13:46):
If you look at Twitter and you look at what
it makes and what it does and how big it
is and how it's shrinking, there's no way that's worth
forty four billion, And that's exactly what financial analysts looking
at as But you know, our colleague Kurt Wagner how
to call him this week, forty four billion looks cheap
if you're Elon Musk and you have as much money
as he does to gain this level of influence over
(14:08):
the US government and the future of policy.
Speaker 6 (14:11):
Yeah, I think we need to start. I mean, and
I feel like if you've been listening to this podcast
for a year, you are not going to be surprised.
But like, there aren't like what six companies, and I
guess now a seventh company with America Pack. There's like
one Elon Musk conglomerate. And Twitter is the media arm
of the Elon Musk conglomerate, right, Dana.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Oh yeah, absolutely, one hundred percent. And like we need
to stop kind of thinking of it as like this
failing business that has alienated advertisers and is losing users
left and right. Like it has served it is serving
its purpose as a megaphone for Musk his politics for
now the Trump administration, I mean, for every you know,
journalists and epidemiologists and climate scientists who's like leaving X
(14:55):
to go join Blue Sky. A lot of Republicans are
now using it because it really it is like the
media arm of the Republican Party, and it's kind of
become what truth Social set out to be a while ago.
And so yeah, I think your framing is totally right.
Speaker 6 (15:09):
Max.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
This is the media wing of ELIN Inc.
Speaker 6 (15:13):
Tom, have you started thinking about or is it worth
starting to think about an exit for Twitter? And when
you guys are thinking about valuation of Twitter, like, how
much is it worth if Tesla's valuation goes up forty
percent just based on kind of like the magic of
having President elec Donald Trump, Like, what does that do
to Twitter's valuation?
Speaker 5 (15:33):
How does that affect his net worth? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Look, that's a good question. Could he tenant into a mainstalk?
I mean you look at Trump media and technology, right,
It's got truth Social, which is made like a million
dollars lost quota. It's financially it's terrible, and yet it's
valued at something like seven or eight billion dollars. So Twitter,
by that comparison should be with multiple multiple times of that.
Speaker 6 (15:54):
One of the things that Elon said right up right
before the election, and he reiterated it in a tweet
this morning was the idea that America pack is going
to continue putting money into politics. And I think part
of why he's doing that is because it's a way
to you know, create some leverage over what's happening in
(16:15):
the White House right now. Tom, Like, can he just
spend a couple hundred million dollars every couple of years
without without incident or like, at what point do those
liquidity problems that we've talked about with Elon Musk, the
fact that like most of his net worth is in
Tesla stock and options, when does that start to become
a problem.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Like, I think a couple hundred million is pretty easy
for him to come up with. I mean, he ran
into problems when he bought Twitter, and that's when he
had to sell a bunch of Tesla shes. There were
margin calls, there were problems with his margin loan that
was you know, forty four billion dollars and that was
a big purchase, right and that was a struggle for him.
But coming up with half a billion dollars a year
(16:55):
at this point, that's that's pretty straightforward. We don't know
much about liquidity at this point. He's margin loan with
Tesla stock has come down a lot. They limited that
to three and a half billion after the Twitter fiasco.
He could probably borrow against SpaceX. That's a private company,
so it's a little bit trickier in terms of liquidity,
but for private companies, it's probably the most liquid one
(17:16):
in the world, or at least right up there. So
he has ways of raising money, and certainly coming up
with that sort of money I think is very easy
for him.
Speaker 6 (17:29):
How do you think about what SpaceX is worth and
how much what this stuff that we've heard about and
talked about and that Dana and I on the on
the Citizen Elon podcast which is all about the election
that we've talked about, like, how do you figure out
how that's going to be how much that's going to
be worth to Elon?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
I mean, from a perspective evaluation, we only care about
what it's worth now. But if you're asking what is
going to drive his wealth in the future, I mean
you've got to think SpaceX and XAI is where the
most potential is, especially with Tesla. But it's worth versus
you know what its revenue is and how many cars
it's selling. It's it's hard to imagine the trajectory it's
(18:07):
on now kind of continuing indefinitely, and it's come down
a lot in the past. I mean, Mosca is the
only person in the world who's lost more than two
hundred billion at some point as well. So he's always
had a volatile fortune and that's because of Tesla SpaceX though,
So that's a company that is a huge amount of
potential and XAI, even if that was worth as much
(18:28):
as open Ai, then that would boost his fortune by multiples,
you know, he would add another one hundred billion or
something to his fortune.
Speaker 6 (18:35):
Did SpaceX's value also go up overnight when Trump got elected?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
No, well we don't. We look at when it was
last valued, So that was back in June when it
did a fundraising at two hundred and ten billion. Do
I think it's worth that now, No, I think it's
probably worth substing.
Speaker 6 (18:49):
But in terms of the Bloomberg model, which is what
you're citing exactly, the big appreciation is just.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
In his Tesla shares.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I'm guessing most of it he's added about the seventy
bills that he's added in the last week comes from
his Tesla sches. This year he's added about one hundred billion,
and I think the rest of that comes from XII
and SPICEX.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
Sarah, just stepping back a minute from Elon Musk and
just looking at the world of Silicon Valley, how do
you think this is going to be processed by like
the other you know, want to be oligarchs in the
tech industry, the people who you know, there are a
lot of people who really look up to Elon, Like
are people just seeing this as like, oh my god,
(19:30):
this his bet paid off, Like now I need to
somehow either get close to Trump or get get into politics,
or like how is this playing kind of in the
wider world of Silicon Valley.
Speaker 7 (19:41):
I think there's sort of two camps that I see.
There's the the people who are now going very silent
because they don't want to ruffle Elon's feathers or Truan's
feathers or you know, try to make any waves and
they want to stay in good graces just for being technologists.
And then then there are people that are clearly trying
(20:02):
to angle to to have to think about like how
Elon got what he got, and I'm sure that we'll
see a lot more trying to replicate that success for
their businesses. I do think that there might be a
backlash to all this culturally, Like I think that there
was already you know, and I think you and I
(20:23):
were talking about this yesterday, Max, like the era of
like tech optimism about growth and designing the future, and
we were just seeing a lot of like cultural backlash
to the idea of Musks so close to the government
and like what that might mean for all of us.
And then there are people that hope that his proximity
(20:44):
to Trump means that Trump's climate policies won't be as
much of a disaster.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
I love the theory that like Musk isn't actually right
wing Mega, He's just like pretending to be right wing
magass so he can sort of trojan horse it and
like get into the government and then can vince Musk
that they's trojanhorsing it and is going to convince Trump
that electric vehicles are great, windmills aren't so bad, solar
energy is the future, and I mean, if that came
(21:11):
to pass, that would be remarkable. I don't believe in
that theory personally, but that is a theory.
Speaker 6 (21:16):
Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's totally runs counter
to almost everything he said and Trump said over the
last year. Right, all right, Dana, we are going to
let you go and get back to the important business
of reporting on on the crazy things that are happening.
Speaker 5 (21:32):
I'll see you soon. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Take care.
Speaker 6 (21:38):
So Sarah brought up this idea of a tech lash,
and I think we actually got a preview this week
and we're going to talk about it for our semi
regular feud segment few to the week, and this one
stars cultural icon Olivia Rodrigo against I guess guys who
want to go to space?
Speaker 5 (21:54):
Let's give a listen the guests my vig.
Speaker 8 (21:57):
Okay, this is a very odd specific question that I
ask guys on first dates. I always ask them if
they think that they would want to go to space,
and if they say yes, I don't date. I just
think if you want to go to space, you're a
little too full of yourself. I think it's just weird.
Speaker 6 (22:18):
Uh, Sarah, she's talking about Elon Musk, right, Oh?
Speaker 7 (22:22):
Absolutely. I mean I think that this is a theme
I've also seen in it is. It's really not just
Elon Musk. It's this idea of like men who are
so disconnected from human connection and how to actually develop
human connection. They're so deeply invested in this Musk world
(22:42):
and like the Manisphere. I've seen other kind of tech
lash cultural tweets like this and memes where people are like, oh,
if you suggest that I use chat GBT to solve
a problem on the first date, Like, I'm you know,
you're not going to get a second date.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
I think this is really bad for Elon Musk.
Speaker 6 (22:59):
I mean, I know this is not obviously you know,
this isn't a ROBOTAXI you know, crashing or something. This
isn't this isn't a rocket failing to launch. But this
seems like the canary in the coal mine that could
pretend what Sarah is talking about tom a you know,
monumental tech lash, a tech lash where basically all the
(23:20):
cool people decide that like Elon Musk and anybody like
him doesn't belong in their community.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
I mean, what do you make of this?
Speaker 6 (23:28):
How are you incorporating this into the Bloomberg billionaires model?
Speaker 2 (23:34):
I feel like Musk has always wanted to be cool
but has always been on the outside, and this is
just kind of more of the same. Right, So is
this really going to change his trajectory in any way?
Speaker 6 (23:45):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I mean, it's just one more blow and he's going
to just continue with his quest to go to space
and hopefully he'll make more like minded people on Moss.
Speaker 6 (23:55):
So Sarah, again, I don't want to make too much
of this, but in a more in a more serious sense,
like do you think that this could like slow things
down culturally? I mean, I think we probably need to
get ready for some version of, you know, resistance to
point zero, and maybe a resistance that's more directed at
tech guys than the last one was.
Speaker 7 (24:17):
I mean, just look at the reasons that people voted
for Trump on a macro scale, Like people are unsatisfied
with how expensive everything is, how difficult life is, how
much childcare costs.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
You know, when people are.
Speaker 7 (24:31):
Dissatisfied with the state of their lives and their spending
power and their futures, they vote for the alternative. And
in a moment like that, saying well, let's just go
to space, is it's like, well, let's just forget about
fixing the stuff that is broken on Earth and stop
trying to do anything about it and instead invest in
(24:55):
some future that is very expensive and who knows if
it'll work.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Fine words, Tom, No, but I gotta say I've always
kind of wanted to go to space. So I feel
a little bit hurt by Rigo's comments.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
Sarah, what do you think is going to space a
a red flag?
Speaker 6 (25:12):
No? I don't.
Speaker 7 (25:13):
I mean, I don't think so.
Speaker 6 (25:14):
I think.
Speaker 7 (25:14):
I mean like I'm a tech reporter, right, Like I
think innovation is cool, but I also think that there
are other problems that people on Earth probably want to
be solved first or in conjunction with that.
Speaker 6 (25:28):
Let's leave it there. We'll be paying attention to those
problems in the Weisa come, Sarah, Tom.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
Thanks for being on Elon Inc.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 6 (25:43):
This episode was produced by Stacy Wong. Anna Maserakas is
our editor and Rayhan Harmanci our senior editor. The idea
for this show also came from Rayhan Blake Maple's Handles
Engineering and Emma Sanchez fact checks. Our supervising producer is
Magnus Henrickson. The Elin is written and performed by Taka
Yazuzawa and Alex Sigierra. Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer,
(26:06):
and Sage Bauman is the head.
Speaker 5 (26:07):
Of Bloomberg Podcast.
Speaker 6 (26:09):
A big thanks to our supporters Joel Weber and Brad Stone.
I'm Max Chafkin. If you have a minute rate and
review our show. It'll help other listeners find us, and
we will see you next week.
Host
David Papadopoulos
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.