September 16, 2025 • 40 mins
This is the final episode of Elon, Inc., and it comes at a fitting point in the story of the highly controversial entrepreneur Elon Musk. The podcast was launched around the time the South Africa native bought and rebranded Twitter, transforming a mainstream social media platform into something else entirely. Now, the podcast has found a natural conclusion with his full return to his companies, his exit from the Trump administration and the unprecedented governmental upheaval, mass firings and grim global consequences left in his wake.
To reflect on this tumultuous timeline, David Papadopoulos gathers the best and brightest Elon Musk experts the Bloomberg newsroom has to offer—including Bloomberg Businessweek’s Max Chafkin and Bloomberg News Musk reporter Dana Hull, technology reporter Kurt Wagner and editor Sarah Frier—to go through the most memorable Musk stories from the past few years and to peek into the future of Musk’s empire and potential political ambitions.
Among the stories we discuss are Musk’s outburst directed at advertisers at the New York Times DealBook summit, that time when Musk and President Donald Trump were hawking Teslas from the White House driveway and the right-wing multibillionaire’s “awkward hand gesture.” But in the end, is there any story that can top the rise and fall of the Musk-Trump friendship? Probably not. Musk spent hundreds of millions of dollars getting the Republican back in the White House, but their partnership didn’t make it past the summer. As Chafkin says, “that was obviously the Elon feud to end all feuds.”
When it comes to looking forward, speculation abounds, but one thought in particular wins the group’s approval: Hull’s prediction that the South Africa native will one day make good on his promise to open a candy company. As the Elon, Inc. podcast rides into the sunset, future Musk coverage will find a home on the new Bloomberg podcast, Everybody’s Business, co-hosted by Stacey Vanek Smith and Chafkin.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Let me tell you we have a new star.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
A star is born Elan mars Juthan Kennemy.
Speaker 4 (00:14):
He is the Thomas Edison plus plus plus of our age.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity.
I feel for the guys. I would say ninety eight
percent really appreciate what he does.
Speaker 5 (00:25):
But those two percent.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
That are nasty, they are out pay in four post.
Speaker 6 (00:30):
We were meant for great things in the United States
of America, and Elon reminds.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Us of that.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I'm very disappointed in Elan.
Speaker 7 (00:37):
I've helped Elan a lot.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Okay, Elan, in listeners, our time together has come to
an end. You know, we woke up the other day
and realized that Musk had, for a few minutes at
the least, lost his claim the world's richest person, and
just all the hell with it. We don't do no
shows around here about no second rate billionaires. What do
you think this is? It's numeral uno or nada. We're done. Okay,
(01:11):
So the actual story here is a little different than that,
and Elon inc to be clear, isn't totally going away.
It's just getting folded into our fantastic brand new show here,
Everybody's Business, co hosted by Elon Inc's very own Max Chafkin. Now, Max,
tell them how it's gonna work.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah. So, just as Tesla acquired Solar City and in
doing so incorporated the mission of Solar City and bailed
it out Everybody's Business we were in Solar City, we
have this new show, Everybody's Business, that, like you said, David,
I'm co hosting and try to bring a lot of
(01:48):
the same spirit that we had in Elon Inc. In
terms of both like journalistic rigor as well as like
real talk, like talking about the business world has it
actually is with some of the sparts people we know,
and you know, all of our elon Ink panelists, including
the ones we are going to be on the show today,
are are on Everybody's Business. We're going to keep talking
(02:10):
about these issues. And I really hope that the Elon Inc.
Nation this, the listeners of this show who have been
so enthusiastic and loyal through our you know, capers and
and and some of the silliness that we made up
with you will We'll come on over and join us
over at the Everybody's Business feed and keep talking to
(02:32):
us keep sending and others involved in the show emails.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
It's going to be amazing. And of course Bloomberg readers
will continue to get all the great coverage that our
ACE journalists delivered day in and day out, Max, Dana Hull,
Kurt Wagner, Sarah Fryer and many more. And for our
final show, we've assembled those stars. We get the whole
band together here, Dana, Kurt, Sarah, Max, Welcome to you all.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Thanks for having us. David, thank you, Kurt say, I'm
gonna thank you, I think, thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
It's my turn.
Speaker 6 (03:06):
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
I'm gonna miss hanging out with you guys every Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Boring, yes we are as well, but that's why we're
going out with the bang here, Dan and So, Okay,
what we're gonna do is a little bit of a
look back at the wildest moments in Elon during these
past two years we've been airing the show. And then
I look forward full of brilliant and I highlight brilliant
zany predictions to give you all a bit of a
(03:32):
north star to guide you in lieu of this steady
weekly fix. Okay, So looking back, Okay, looking back, it's
been Max, it's been like, like get just about two
years twenty two months, there's been a lot of wild stuff.
What is your wildest moment in the land of Elon
(03:55):
past two years?
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
My god.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I think it was when he imploded in his role
in the Trump administration, the exit from Doge, the going
out with a bang, the decision not only to leave,
but to leave by calling for the impeachment of the
President of the United States, accusing him the President of
the United States again of unspeakable crimes after just a
(04:22):
couple months earlier, wearing a hat that said Trump was
right about everything.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
It was amazing that had she had just simply been
like Trump was right about open priends mostly.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
I mean it just as far as like political feuds.
We've had a feud watch on this show many times.
That was obviously the Elon feud to end all feuds.
I think it remains the Elon feud to.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
End all feuds.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
We could talk about that when we go look forward,
but maybe of all feuds in all of history, that's
pretty high up, well, at.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Least in that short span of time. As far as
social media, Yeah, drag him out, sock them out. You
af you I'm going to kill you. No, I'm going
to kill you. Yeah, that would rank pretty high before
I turned it over to the rest of our star
studied cast. Here we actually also we got from some
friends of the show. We had them send in their
(05:15):
recollections of the wildest moments of the past few years.
Let's listen to a couple of them.
Speaker 8 (05:20):
I think the most noteworthy Elon's story stems from his
support of President Trump, his role in getting President Trump
re elected as President of the United States of America.
That bromance parlaying into Doge.
Speaker 9 (05:36):
The craziest Elon moment wasn't even a real Elon moment.
It was an Elon inc moment when someone pitched the
idea that X was being used for pornography.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
I think it still has to be the Nazi salute.
Speaker 10 (05:55):
I've got to go back to the very first month
of this podcast. November three, Elon sat down with Andrew
Ross Sorkin at the New York Times Deal Book Summit.
When he brings up Bob Eiger, Musk snapped he literally
with his chests. I hope they stop, don't advertise, and
Musk defiantly says GFY. This is a family show after all.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Okay, so those were in order. Joel Weber, Brendan Newnham,
Raihan Harmansi, who, by the way, back when she was
an employee here had the idea for this very show,
and Craig Trudell. Now we should note that there's been
much debate about the stiff Musk arm rais and whether
it was truly a Nazi salute or just an awkward
gesture from an awkward guy. Musk, for his part, dismisses
(06:41):
the criticism as absurd. Dan, you'll give us your highlight
or two over the past couple of years, but before
you do, give us your thoughts on what we just
heard from our friends there.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Well, these are all great examples, and I think one
thing to remember is that Elon Musk speaks more than
any other c and corporate America. I mean, the guy
is super overexposed. I'm kind of surprised that nobody mentioned
him wielding a chainsaw on stage at Seapack. That was
another moment. But but to Max's point, like the whole
(07:13):
narrative arc of his politics from barnstorming across the state
of Pennsylvania to Inauguration day to then like exiting the
White House with a black eye. I mean it's like
so cinematic almost, and it's very Shakespearean, and I mean
we could just go on.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
And on and on.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
You know, it's funny Max listening to what our friends
had to say. Brendan Newnham was number two. Brendan's remembering
a very funny.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
That he acted like that didn't happen in real life,
Like that that was a real okay, that happened in
the world. People. There's a lot of porn on ends.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
That Rayhan was full of.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Does he really he does?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, we have an expert here on said platform, Sarah Friar.
Actually we have two, both Sarah and Kurt. Is porn
a huge thing on x or, as Brendan says, was
it wildly overstated by our good friend Rayana Harmanci.
Speaker 6 (08:09):
I mean, didn't Elon just basically roll out a chatbot
that will talk dirty to people? I mean this is
I feel like this is pretty widely understood that if
you want to find porn on x it is not
hard to find. I think is maybe the short, short version.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
I see you guys, Sarah and kurtin I'm sure Dan,
I have had the experience of, like maybe a couple
of years ago when there was when it was really
out of control where you'd be like looking for some
Elon tweet at the office and then it is and
then just be confronted or with something horrible just to see.
Speaker 7 (08:42):
It not just porn, it's like blatant racism, images from
lynchings that like, it just it's gotten.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Really dark on X Sarah, what was your biggest surprise,
your biggest or your wildest moment these past two years?
Speaker 7 (08:57):
I mean Max to the took the best one, but
that was just such a vivid memory for me because
we were having our our tech conference, so we had
all of these executives that were giving these really you know,
brilliant interviews on stage and I just couldn't stop looking
at my phone. I feel bad about that, but like
(09:18):
you know, Kurt and I were sitting next to each
other and.
Speaker 11 (09:20):
We were just like, did he just say he's going
to cancel those all the contracts with SpaceX? Like did
he just say that he's that Trump's name is in
the Epstein files. We were just like, what is going on?
Like these guys were tight and now the blow up
is aligned with their their way of behaving on it.
(09:41):
I mean they're very similar Trump and Musk, and that
they do a lot of their their grievances out in
the open, and that's how they get things done.
Speaker 7 (09:50):
And to see that happen actually way later than a
lot of us predicted it would.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Right, It just it just took a while to to fester.
I believe we have more audio clips from friends of
the show giving us their highlights these past two years.
Speaker 12 (10:09):
The craziest most noteworthy thing Elon did, at least in
my world of Washington, d C. Was last summer when
he got into a physical altercation with Scott Bessett, the
Treasury Secretary of all people.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Remember like a year or two ago, when Elon kept
promoting all these picturesque images and artwork own X, maybe
with landscapes, maybe a beautiful bed, some flowers. To me,
it was just such a stark reminder that among all
these global stakes, there's a human inside this story.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
One day, Elon was going on a tirade on X
and then basically said we need to get rid of
the International Space Station, and that had a lot of
reverberations throughout the space on the street. So yeah, those
were some big unexpected moments.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Okay, so that was in order. Josh Green fellow con
College alone Magnus Henrickson, our supervising producer, making his on
air debut on the last show, Max Deep cut there
from Man and that I went on and on and
notice how Man I remember it didn't cut back his own.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Vividly and super fans of the show will remember on
our second end of the Year special, it might have
been the second episode of the second end of the
year special, says you remember, David, you were not making these.
You were on vacations, enjoying your holidays. But the rest
of us here were Those were two parts. Anyway, we
had some fun talking about these, like beautiful I guess
(11:50):
maybe possibly AI generated or AI slop type room scapes
or whatever. We're like, Eli.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
It seemed to make an to really have an impact
on Max.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Elon would like spend like three hundred and and sixty
three days out of the year just posting the most
provocative stuff you could possibly imagine on X and like
two days out of the year, would say to himself,
wait a minute, wait a minute, like have I gone
too far? Maybe I should just put a like beautiful
(12:20):
room here and encourage people to post more nice things.
And I don't know, Yeah, it was very funny. I
agree that that was.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
A good one, and it's all Magnus seems to have remembered,
so apparently mister musket worked. The other person we heard
from there in the end talking about space and SpaceX
was Lauren Grush Kurt Wagner. What say you your wildest
favoritestest moment these past two years?
Speaker 6 (12:49):
Well, since I'm going like twentieth on the list, my
top two and they go in order. The breakup was
number one, Max is correct. The GFY on stage in
New York, I think was number two. But I'm shocked
no one has said the third most surprising, which is
Everything's computer. Do you remember when the White House was
turned into a Tesla showroom and the President of the
(13:12):
United States like was selling America Tesla's from the lawn
of the White House. That was a pretty crazy moment.
And I think what made it so like interesting was
also just the visual of it, Like it wasn't just
he said or tweeted something. It was like we saw
them standing there with the cars on the White House lawn,
and I think, you know, I had to go to
(13:34):
number three on my list because you know, someone didn't
call me in time.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
But I knew, I was confident. You're a resourceful sort,
and I knew you'd have you know, many many possibles.
I will go dead last. And I will also, without
pouting about it, Kurt, I will piggyback on others, especially Dana,
and say, yeah, just his stage presence in general. Not
only was the chainsaw one in the screaming of chain
(14:00):
saw chainsaw as he as he swung the chainsaw around,
but then the jumping around. Remember there was that Pennsylvania
dance he did little I just didn't know what to
do with. I still don't know what to do with that.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
I took the most obvious one. And and and I
kind of because you know, there so much has happened
over the last year, and I was thinking, as I
was listening to everybody else, give there is like one
thing that made this show sort of hard to make
and and maybe interesting is that maybe maybe Elon for
(14:38):
most of his career was very very successful and the
last two years have not been the most successful time
of Elon's career. I mean, besides the election of Donald Trump.
It's been actually pretty hard to find like real, I
don't know, like I guess.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
We've had from beyond from a monetary.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
No even monetarily, the stock is flat basic. I mean,
the stock hasn't gone up that much, Like I don't know,
like you go back to it's like basically a stock
price today as we record, this is about where it
was what at the end of Dani will know better
than me, but like end of twenty one or early
twenty two, Like it's a long We've had a long
period between drinks between yeah, and and like I guess
(15:16):
he did like put a chip in someone's brain.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, well, and I want to say, you is Max
right about this? Is he in a funk over there?
Speaker 4 (15:24):
I mean, so the Model Why was the best selling
car in the world in twenty twenty three, sold over
like one point two million units. That was like the
peak of Tesla as a car company. But since then, yeah,
like they're losing market share byd is taking over the world.
The stock is down from its peak right before the election.
I mean, I think that, Like the other sub narrative
(15:46):
is like Elon is bored of making cars and he's
completely pivoted his entire company, which has factories on three continents,
from making cars to making robots and being an AI company.
Like that's like a huge narrative shift that the communication
has been super weird about and that investors seem to
be buying, but like this is fundamentally a different company now.
Speaker 7 (16:07):
I mean, another really weird thing that happened this year
is he found a way to pay off all his
dat holders for buying Twitter. Like I didn't think that
would happen. I didn't think he would actually make them
whole in a short enough period of time. But he
found a way for XAI to swallow x and turn
it into something that was valued highly, so that, you know,
(16:32):
to his credit worked out.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Yeah, and the evaluation of his private companies continues skywreck at.
I mean, SpaceX is a highly valuable company, and so
I see your point, Max, But I still think that,
you know, he's still the richest person in the world.
He's still incredibly powerful. His empire is expanding. I mean,
they've got this data center in Memphis. They're going to
build stuff in Houston. Like his tentacles are continuing to
(16:56):
spread throughout the energy infrastructure of the United state dates
and as AI becomes a bigger thing, you're gonna see
Tesla selling its megapax to AI companies. I mean the
whole thesis of the show, which is that it's not
just Tesla or X or SpaceX, it's it's Elon Inc.
Is still very valid and stronger than ever.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Okay, so this is good because we're starting Dana is
starting to tip us into the future, into what's to
come here, So why don't we across the board here
all tell our listeners what what you guys think are
the biggest or the biggest Elon's story event slash storyline
that you will be following going forward. In other words,
(17:38):
I guess if you had to think about it, it would
be as goes X, not the company X. Sorry, as
goes fill in the blank, Comma, so too goes Elon Inc.
Max will start with you no, no, no, no way,
and we're not gonna start with Matt Yeah, Kurt exactly.
Speaker 6 (17:59):
I don't know how far the future we're allowed to go,
and I don't know how cheesy we're allowed to be.
Genuine great, My genuine answer is sending a human to Mars,
like we've been talking about it for you know whatever,
a decade plus, probably more than that.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
For for Elon, you've got a year, Wagner.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
What's your Yeah, give us a date on that one.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Oh, what is it?
Speaker 6 (18:21):
It is twenty twenty five? Checking, it's like the oldest
that was, like the old man thing.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
I just did what.
Speaker 6 (18:31):
I think we're another seven years away, No, ten years away.
I'm gonna say twenty thirty five, okay.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
And I would say if that happens, yes, the Elonian Empire,
wouldn't that be crazy?
Speaker 6 (18:44):
I mean we've been talking about it forever, and and
part of why I like it is it's one of
the very few things Elon touches that I think people
a broad spectrum of people are interested in and excited about,
which is the idea of doing something in space that
has never been done before. It is not controversial in
the way almost everything else he does is. And so
(19:06):
for me, I think that will be a fun moment
if it actually happens, because I think people who don't
like Elon will be rallied behind the effort.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Got it.
Speaker 7 (19:15):
I feel like I disagree that it's not controversial though,
Like people are really pissed off. Yeah, they're like they're like,
you're spending all these natural resources on sending us to
Mars when like, there's so much to fix about our
current planet.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Don't give up on this planet yet. Stick with this planet,
invest in it before you are ready to hop scotch
over to another.
Speaker 7 (19:34):
The idea of being a multiplanetary species, it's pretty cool.
Speaker 6 (19:38):
Yeah, So that's me there you go, all right?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
So Sarah Fryar, what say you?
Speaker 7 (19:43):
I mean, the thing I'm really just thinking is going
to drive so much in the next few years is
this rivalry with Sam Almon and open Ai and the
idea that Musk is just going to do whatever he
can to capture that success for himself and exceed it.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Right.
Speaker 7 (20:03):
So he's got the lawsuit, he's got the data centers,
he's got the plan for Tesla to invest in XAI,
he's got all of these irons in the fire that
are aimed at overtaking. He's got Grock. So I think
that that's going to be like a driving force for him,
(20:24):
and we've seen it already affect so much of his behavior.
But the idea that he like left open AI and
then it became so successful, I think really eats at him.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah, And I guess that's right. I mean, Max, if
you think about the whole way he is in tipping
Tesla to the direction he's tipping it is indeed, part
of it feels like at some level in part fueled
by this beef with Altman.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
I mean, I wonder how when the Ai bubble bursts,
whether it's a bubble, or whether this kind of period
of exuberance just sort of fizzles a little bit, Like
how that is going to impact Elon's empire because he
is really really Sarah's hinting at it right, like he
is really heavily met on this, on this thing continuing,
(21:12):
and so because and you could see it in the
valuation of x Ai, you can see it in the
valuation of Tesla, and the way he's he's sort of
pivoting Tesla, and in the and in this sort of
echo that that happens on the stock market where like
Tesla's you know, wildly overvalued relative to its business, Like
that has been a thing that we have sort of
(21:34):
talked about over and over again on this podcast. And
if if for some reason that changed then, or even
if it even if it were valued a little bit differently,
that would be kind of like a catastrophic thing for
to happen to Elon, Like it wouldn't. It's not like
it would bankrupt him. It's not like it would take
away the car sales. It's not like it would take
away any of these achievements. But it would put him
(21:55):
in a very very different position.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, it would certainly make the pivot to AI going
all in on AI feel like.
Speaker 7 (22:01):
You can certainly be less rich than Larry Ellison at
that point.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
But Larry Ellison's well, wood fall too would fall too, right.
Speaker 7 (22:08):
Well, that's true, that's true.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Who does that? Then? That brings up I don't know.
I don't know that whoever that person is that goes
to number one, that's that'll be the next show that
the Walton's coming back Walmart Inc. Dana guide us. What's
your thought?
Speaker 4 (22:24):
I mean, the next decade of ELIN is going to
be super interesting because now you know, Tesla's board has
proposed this incredible you know, mars shot pay package to
keep him focused on hitting all of these like sort
of AI goals and making it an eight point five
trillion dollar company. And ten years from now, Elon Musk
will be like sixty four sixty five, like like we
(22:45):
have to sort of like think about the secession plan
for his companies whenever he decides to hand over the reins.
So I think that's like a super interesting storyline. And
then like his personal life, I think is still an
endless source of decination. Like one of the big reveals
of the past year was that Ashley Saint Clair revealed
that she had also had a child with Elon Musk.
(23:07):
So that makes fourteen that we know of. And you know,
between his businesses, his involvement in national politics, and also
his sort of like obsession with declining birth rates and fertility,
Like I still am just super interested in that, Like
what is he doing on that from a business perspective?
Like is he investing in fertility startups or IVF centers?
(23:31):
Like he's got to be doing something beyond just per
creating himself. That's my suspicion, all.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Right, Dana, And you don't have to answer this if
you don't want to, But I'm curious what you think
the real number is. So, like we know of fourteen,
do you is it double? Is it triple? Is it?
Do we need a third digit to express that number?
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Is he like an anonymous sperm donor like there was
something about a Japanese pop star at some point.
Speaker 7 (23:58):
I really don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
That's right. It's your turn, mister Chaffkin. What you got.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Can I react to something Kurt said first before I
give mine yes, which is committed? I agree, like a
person going to Mars would be an amazing achievement. And
I think and when Kurt first said it, I was like, oh,
come on bike, Because Elon has said we're going to
send somebody like in two years or something. He's given
these ridiculously optimistic goals, and I think ten years is
(24:25):
probably like a more plausible suggestion, maybe even a little longer.
But I want to just say, like, that's not going
to be just Elon Musk's achievement. Like Elon Musk may
play a role in that story, and if that story happens,
he will likely play a role, but he won't be
the only player in that story. It's going to be
an achievement for the United States and for humanity. And
(24:49):
I think people sometimes make mistakes when they give Elon
credit for things that aren't totally his doing, right, like
this is and I think this has come up a
lot in the SpaceX story. There's a lot to talk
about how SpaceX is the only like it's like SpaceX
versus NASA, which kind of alides the fact that SpaceX
is a NASA contractor that some NASA administrator was like, Hey,
(25:10):
it would be a really good idea to fund this
company to provide commercial transport, and it also alides all
the other players in this value chain, and so just
wanted to put that out there. I just feel like
sometimes we buy into this narrative like Elon is like
the sole actor moving us to Mars, and it's like, yeah, yeah.
The other thing I want to say is I.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
So, Kurt, that was laying man, That's what Max is
telling you.
Speaker 7 (25:33):
It was a question the opposite.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
I thought he was just validating my wonderful preception.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
So thank you, Max. What do you got? What are
you expecting? What are you closely watching? With baited breath?
Speaker 5 (25:46):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Politics and Elon's continued political engagement. I think, Uh, this
is a huge question. There's a line in the Tesla
proxy that says he's going to wind down his political activities.
Bloomberg TV just had an interview with Robin Denholm, where
our colleague and friend of the podcast ed Ludlow asked,
or maybe it was Caroline Hyde, Ed's co host, what
(26:08):
do you mean by wind down? And she just didn't
answer the question because and effectively indicated that they consider
donating talking about politics, maybe even engaging in like a
political party, to be his personal political activities. I would
guess that his personal political activities will be like the
(26:30):
defining story of not just Elon world, but of all
of Republican politics and maybe all of national politics.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
If it goes, if it goes sideways on him, does
it threaten to derail the empire, the Musk Empire?
Speaker 3 (26:45):
No, I mean, what do you mean derail the musket.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I don't know, like sink it, you know, sink its
value towards zero.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Well, he's got a lot of money to spend it
on politics, So like, I'm not really sure like.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
What I'm getting. Like, So, for instance, right now, when
you guys talk about the lapse in the fundamentals of Tesla,
one of the big drivers of the collapse of the
fundamentals in Tesla is he is now alienated. Oh, I
don't know, with his politics, he's alienated maybe sixty or
seventy percent of his potential buyer base.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Or I think, like Dana has said a bunch of times,
he's moving on from the car business. So yes, he's
he's alienated his basically customers.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
He needs political modes, he needs become a business that
have still as a meme stock.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Now, So like when we talk about the value of Tesla,
we're saying, like, at what point were these shareholders decide
that they don't like it anymore? And I feel very
I would not feel confident predicting that the stock's that's cool,
you know what I'm saying, Well, that's.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Cool, but like it is worth near it is worth
more than a trillion dollars, And I would just say
that at some point it's possible that if the financials
in the short term collapse to an extent that like,
oh my god, you know we're cash flow negative again.
I know, you could get a holy crap moment. I'm
(28:03):
not predicting all.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Of the thing is, I think Elon has enough juice
within the conservative movement and enough money that he's not
going to be on an island by himself. He has
an important ally in Vice President j. D. Vance, he
has important allies in the Republican Party. It's true that
he and Trump don't have a good relationship, but I
would be really, really, really surprised if he is not
(28:26):
a factor in Republican politics in the midterm and in
the next presidential election.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
I think the mistake that people make about Elon is
time and again people think, Okay, this is it, this
is going to be the downfall of Elon Musk. But
he is too big to fail. He has a wide
ranging empire, with installations in several congressional districts. He has
lucrative government contracts. He is deeply embedded in several different industries,
(28:51):
and the car business is only one of them. I mean,
for all of the consternation about his involvement in politics,
like the company is still worth over trillion dollars, like
it does it, Like yes, it has impacted sales, but
it has not impacted him in the eyes of investors.
And there is a sloop of you know, Wall Street
investment banks and analysts and Musk, and like time it again,
they will make fees working with this guy, and he
(29:14):
is brilliant at raising money, and like people want to
invest in him, like they will invest in whatever he
wants to do.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
I would say, Dana, that absolutely you were ahead of
that and saying this guy, it's less like, it's far
less likely that he will he will blow up years ago,
when many others were saying he would. My issue is,
I think nobody's saying that now. And maybe that's right.
Maybe he is too big, and maybe that is right.
I just don't know that just given the nature of
(29:42):
how divisive he is and how given how many plates
he's got in the air and this and that, I
just think it's still an open ending question. And given
how he has alienated a huge part of his of
his customer base. And maybe you're right, Max, maybe all
of his future businesses are totally shielded from this. Maybe
his future your businesses. Whether or not he's alienated a
customer base, maybe that doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Maybe, I mean, you obviously become bias based on what
you've seen and having seen as we have Elon survive
scandal after scandal after scandal, what's going to do him?
So like, obviously Elon's empire could go and decline. It
maybe already is in decline. I think there's a chance
you look at you.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
You were sort of arguing that yourself.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
You look back, I think there's a chance, like we
look back twenty years from now and we say, yep,
this was the moment when when he started.
Speaker 7 (30:31):
I think that's a good question, Like has Elon peaked?
I think we were like looking at this, you know,
this podcast ending and it's like, well, this was the
year that Elon was the quote unquote shadow president, right.
He he got as close to geopolitical peak of power
as you can get without actually being president. And that's over.
(30:55):
So has his influence peaked? I guess maybe not like
his I think his businesses have lots of second lives.
But has his influence on the geopolitical order peaked? Maybe
it has, Maybe it's just the beginning. Maybe Elon Musk
(31:16):
continues internationally, makes big change in Europe. We don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Before we go to the more concrete predictions part of
the show, I will just say one thing looking back,
I will pivot back. Now we would not be talking
about Elon Mustard. He would be a nobody if interest
rates in this country weren't zero for the better part
of the past twenty years. That is also an enormous
(31:42):
thing that helped him survive that whole time. If interest
rates weren't zero in money, an insane amounts of money
weren't slashing around the global economy and in the US
economy and the US financial system, he wouldn't have gotten
those much needed injections of cash, and he and his
companies were like razor close to going under. That's my
(32:05):
hot all right. We have from our good friends. We
have some concrete, tangible predictions here. They are let's listen.
Speaker 8 (32:15):
As much as he wants to stay away from politics,
I think it is like a moth to a flame.
They don't think he's totally done with politics.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
There's this big push for NASA to beat the Chinese
government to the moon, and so is there going to
be some kind of I guess division between NASA and
SpaceX if it's taking too long. So how will that
affect the NASA and SpaceX relationship going forward?
Speaker 1 (32:44):
In the next five years, el and the grandfather will
be kind of a reminder of him growing older. So
I wouldn't be surprised if we see, you know, Elan
and inconvertible.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
That's what I think is going to happen.
Speaker 9 (32:57):
I think in the next couple of years, Elon is
going to become Christian. I'm using air quotes. He keeps
tracking far right. JD Vance, late blooming Catholic Russell Brand
got baptized. But that's my prediction.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
Elon Musk Christian I have a feeling that the craziest
thing that will happen to Elon's future is on the
social media platform he owns.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
I think he's going to start to lose followers.
Speaker 12 (33:26):
I think the natural thing for Elon is that he's
going to have to pick a fight with a new
high profile nemesis. And the guy that seems most obvious
to me would be Sam Altman. This is the Elon
story that will keep us all riveted and watching and
reading and podcasting about Elon in the year ahead.
Speaker 10 (33:42):
I think we're in for another X post that causes
a you have said the actual truth level uproar or worse.
Elon has just been getting darker and darker on X
of late, and I can see Musk in his words,
uttering something that is a new, worst and dumbest post
that he's ever done.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Okay, that was in order again. Joel Weber, Lauren Grush,
the Great Magnus Henrickson, Brendan Newnham, Rayjan Harmanci, Josh Green,
Craig Trudell Sarah, Josh, there was on your Sam Altman feud.
Everyone's getting hyped up about this. This is gonna happen,
isn't it.
Speaker 7 (34:23):
It is happening. It's happening right now.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
It is happening the actual cage match Man Max in
an actual cage match. Alan doesn't matter. He's a small guy.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Yeah, you know. The one thing I'll say is he is.
He does seem to have some agility, so that could
give him.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
He's nimble, he's nimble. It would give him an advantage.
He could run circles around around Musk. Before I press
you guys for predictions on a couple specific things, any
other reactions to our Those are some lame predictions.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
That's my reaction.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
I mean, like, well, you don't like Magnus's prediction.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
And they've already they've all, like all, every single one
of them have already happened. I thinks is a Christian
Elon sells or I mean he has sold in the
past a convertible. I'm sure he owns their must.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Becoming a Christian.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
I don't know. He tweets about Christianity all the time.
Sam Almon feud is going on right now like I
want some real predictions from this crew. Actually, Rayhon had
a good bold one, which was that he would lose
Twitter followers.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Yeah, okay, the rest of you, guys, Weber, Rush, Hendricks
and Nunam Hermansi, Green Trudell, you all suck, says Mac.
Last question here, last question that you'll ever be asked
on the Elon Show as Elon goes away. But Elon himself,
(35:47):
of course, until he may leave this earth, keeps doing
his thing. So my question for all of you is,
tell me what the next company is that he found. Kurt,
start with you, give us, give me your best answer,
don't think too much about it. And Kirk, because you're
always crying that we go to you last night, we'll
(36:08):
go to you first again. Let's go if and when
Musk dials up a new company, what is it? What's
the new company? What's the business?
Speaker 6 (36:18):
Come on, I'm gonna piggyback on Dana and say something
to do with fertility and birth rates. So I don't
know if it'll be science based or what, but it'll
have to do with more people having more kids.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
It's like a birth control pill that doesn't work is
gonna be I've got one.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
I mean, he's always talked about how candy bar suck,
Like why isn't there a new candy bar? Like why
are we suck with Snickers? You know, Snickers and movie way, Like,
He's often intimated that there should be like a new
a new kind of candy.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Do we think that's right? Do we think Snicker sucks?
Speaker 3 (36:49):
No, Snickers is like undeniably the best candy bar.
Speaker 6 (36:52):
Right, He's the new Willy Wantka.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah, yeah, these are not crap that that that our
friends send us. Okay, so we've got we've got a
sex fertility robot.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Fertility.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
I think I feel like there's gonna be a robot
that's gonna make this happen. We've got a candy bar, Sarah,
what do you got?
Speaker 7 (37:14):
I'm gonna I'm gonna piggyback on what Kurt said and
say that he's going to try to make the Optimist
robots be able to carry children.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
What if there's an Optimist neural link kind of tie
in and like there's some kind of way to program
it to breed, right, all right?
Speaker 6 (37:33):
I thought I had a pretty reasonable like fertility thing
which is now quickly turned into sex robots. So I
just want to point out that my original prediction.
Speaker 7 (37:43):
He's very into like outsourcing the creation of children.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Elon is pretty much said he's going to develop sex robots, right,
I mean, he's he's.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Like everything everybody says. Max's answers, she's already said that,
he's already done. What do you got.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
My prediction is that in uh January twenty thirty one,
Elon Musk will be inaugurated as the next governor of Texas.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Wow, that's a that's not a come. It's a gotta company.
But it's all right, we'll it, We'll let it go.
And and he is, of course legally allowed to run.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Right And I think, I mean so obviously when you
get somebody like Elon Musk, rich guy, loves to be
in politics, likes to be at the center of things,
there's often speculation about a run for president. I guess
never discount it, right, He's he's attempted crazy year things
in the past. Maybe, But I kind of think being
governor is fun. It's probably more fun than being president.
(38:42):
He lives in Texas, it's a conservative state. He's one
of the most famous people like it in the worldly.
I guarantee you there are political consultants who have contemplated
this already. I don't know, I could kind of see
it like like Schwarzenegger basically.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
But but Elon right, very good. We are adjourned for
the last time, and let's get this right. As I
say goodbye to everybody, Sarah, Dana, Kurt, Max, it's been
a pleasure, great to be here.
Speaker 6 (39:15):
It's been a ride.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
Thanks guys, see you on everybody's business.
Speaker 7 (39:18):
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah, we're going to check on those predictions, yes, in
a few years.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
This episode was produced by Stacy Wang and edited by Annamasarrakas.
Our supervising producer, as always, was Magnus Hendrickson. The Elon Inc.
Theme was written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex
Sugiurra Blake Maple's handled engineering, and Dave Purcell fact checked.
And I want to extend a big, big thanks to
all of them and everyone else who worked hard behind
(39:53):
the scenes to make the show go these past two years.
Elon Inc. Out tasty, ste
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Let me tell you we have a new star.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
A star is born Elan mars Juthan Kennemy.
Speaker 4 (00:14):
He is the Thomas Edison plus plus plus of our age.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity.
I feel for the guys. I would say ninety eight
percent really appreciate what he does.
Speaker 5 (00:25):
But those two percent.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
That are nasty, they are out pay in four post.
Speaker 6 (00:30):
We were meant for great things in the United States
of America, and Elon reminds.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Us of that.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I'm very disappointed in Elan.
Speaker 7 (00:37):
I've helped Elan a lot.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Okay, Elan, in listeners, our time together has come to
an end. You know, we woke up the other day
and realized that Musk had, for a few minutes at
the least, lost his claim the world's richest person, and
just all the hell with it. We don't do no
shows around here about no second rate billionaires. What do
you think this is? It's numeral uno or nada. We're done. Okay,
(01:11):
So the actual story here is a little different than that,
and Elon inc to be clear, isn't totally going away.
It's just getting folded into our fantastic brand new show here,
Everybody's Business, co hosted by Elon Inc's very own Max Chafkin. Now, Max,
tell them how it's gonna work.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah. So, just as Tesla acquired Solar City and in
doing so incorporated the mission of Solar City and bailed
it out Everybody's Business we were in Solar City, we
have this new show, Everybody's Business, that, like you said, David,
I'm co hosting and try to bring a lot of
(01:48):
the same spirit that we had in Elon Inc. In
terms of both like journalistic rigor as well as like
real talk, like talking about the business world has it
actually is with some of the sparts people we know,
and you know, all of our elon Ink panelists, including
the ones we are going to be on the show today,
are are on Everybody's Business. We're going to keep talking
(02:10):
about these issues. And I really hope that the Elon Inc.
Nation this, the listeners of this show who have been
so enthusiastic and loyal through our you know, capers and
and and some of the silliness that we made up
with you will We'll come on over and join us
over at the Everybody's Business feed and keep talking to
(02:32):
us keep sending and others involved in the show emails.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
It's going to be amazing. And of course Bloomberg readers
will continue to get all the great coverage that our
ACE journalists delivered day in and day out, Max, Dana Hull,
Kurt Wagner, Sarah Fryer and many more. And for our
final show, we've assembled those stars. We get the whole
band together here, Dana, Kurt, Sarah, Max, Welcome to you all.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Thanks for having us. David, thank you, Kurt say, I'm
gonna thank you, I think, thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
It's my turn.
Speaker 6 (03:06):
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
I'm gonna miss hanging out with you guys every Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Boring, yes we are as well, but that's why we're
going out with the bang here, Dan and So, Okay,
what we're gonna do is a little bit of a
look back at the wildest moments in Elon during these
past two years we've been airing the show. And then
I look forward full of brilliant and I highlight brilliant
zany predictions to give you all a bit of a
(03:32):
north star to guide you in lieu of this steady
weekly fix. Okay, So looking back, Okay, looking back, it's
been Max, it's been like, like get just about two
years twenty two months, there's been a lot of wild stuff.
What is your wildest moment in the land of Elon
(03:55):
past two years?
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
My god.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I think it was when he imploded in his role
in the Trump administration, the exit from Doge, the going
out with a bang, the decision not only to leave,
but to leave by calling for the impeachment of the
President of the United States, accusing him the President of
the United States again of unspeakable crimes after just a
(04:22):
couple months earlier, wearing a hat that said Trump was
right about everything.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
It was amazing that had she had just simply been
like Trump was right about open priends mostly.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
I mean it just as far as like political feuds.
We've had a feud watch on this show many times.
That was obviously the Elon feud to end all feuds.
I think it remains the Elon feud to.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
End all feuds.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
We could talk about that when we go look forward,
but maybe of all feuds in all of history, that's
pretty high up, well, at.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Least in that short span of time. As far as
social media, Yeah, drag him out, sock them out. You
af you I'm going to kill you. No, I'm going
to kill you. Yeah, that would rank pretty high before
I turned it over to the rest of our star
studied cast. Here we actually also we got from some
friends of the show. We had them send in their
(05:15):
recollections of the wildest moments of the past few years.
Let's listen to a couple of them.
Speaker 8 (05:20):
I think the most noteworthy Elon's story stems from his
support of President Trump, his role in getting President Trump
re elected as President of the United States of America.
That bromance parlaying into Doge.
Speaker 9 (05:36):
The craziest Elon moment wasn't even a real Elon moment.
It was an Elon inc moment when someone pitched the
idea that X was being used for pornography.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
I think it still has to be the Nazi salute.
Speaker 10 (05:55):
I've got to go back to the very first month
of this podcast. November three, Elon sat down with Andrew
Ross Sorkin at the New York Times Deal Book Summit.
When he brings up Bob Eiger, Musk snapped he literally
with his chests. I hope they stop, don't advertise, and
Musk defiantly says GFY. This is a family show after all.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Okay, so those were in order. Joel Weber, Brendan Newnham,
Raihan Harmansi, who, by the way, back when she was
an employee here had the idea for this very show,
and Craig Trudell. Now we should note that there's been
much debate about the stiff Musk arm rais and whether
it was truly a Nazi salute or just an awkward
gesture from an awkward guy. Musk, for his part, dismisses
(06:41):
the criticism as absurd. Dan, you'll give us your highlight
or two over the past couple of years, but before
you do, give us your thoughts on what we just
heard from our friends there.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Well, these are all great examples, and I think one
thing to remember is that Elon Musk speaks more than
any other c and corporate America. I mean, the guy
is super overexposed. I'm kind of surprised that nobody mentioned
him wielding a chainsaw on stage at Seapack. That was
another moment. But but to Max's point, like the whole
(07:13):
narrative arc of his politics from barnstorming across the state
of Pennsylvania to Inauguration day to then like exiting the
White House with a black eye. I mean it's like
so cinematic almost, and it's very Shakespearean, and I mean
we could just go on.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
And on and on.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
You know, it's funny Max listening to what our friends
had to say. Brendan Newnham was number two. Brendan's remembering
a very funny.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
That he acted like that didn't happen in real life,
Like that that was a real okay, that happened in
the world. People. There's a lot of porn on ends.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
That Rayhan was full of.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Does he really he does?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, we have an expert here on said platform, Sarah Friar.
Actually we have two, both Sarah and Kurt. Is porn
a huge thing on x or, as Brendan says, was
it wildly overstated by our good friend Rayana Harmanci.
Speaker 6 (08:09):
I mean, didn't Elon just basically roll out a chatbot
that will talk dirty to people? I mean this is
I feel like this is pretty widely understood that if
you want to find porn on x it is not
hard to find. I think is maybe the short, short version.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
I see you guys, Sarah and kurtin I'm sure Dan,
I have had the experience of, like maybe a couple
of years ago when there was when it was really
out of control where you'd be like looking for some
Elon tweet at the office and then it is and
then just be confronted or with something horrible just to see.
Speaker 7 (08:42):
It not just porn, it's like blatant racism, images from
lynchings that like, it just it's gotten.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Really dark on X Sarah, what was your biggest surprise,
your biggest or your wildest moment these past two years?
Speaker 7 (08:57):
I mean Max to the took the best one, but
that was just such a vivid memory for me because
we were having our our tech conference, so we had
all of these executives that were giving these really you know,
brilliant interviews on stage and I just couldn't stop looking
at my phone. I feel bad about that, but like
(09:18):
you know, Kurt and I were sitting next to each
other and.
Speaker 11 (09:20):
We were just like, did he just say he's going
to cancel those all the contracts with SpaceX? Like did
he just say that he's that Trump's name is in
the Epstein files. We were just like, what is going on?
Like these guys were tight and now the blow up
is aligned with their their way of behaving on it.
(09:41):
I mean they're very similar Trump and Musk, and that
they do a lot of their their grievances out in
the open, and that's how they get things done.
Speaker 7 (09:50):
And to see that happen actually way later than a
lot of us predicted it would.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Right, It just it just took a while to to fester.
I believe we have more audio clips from friends of
the show giving us their highlights these past two years.
Speaker 12 (10:09):
The craziest most noteworthy thing Elon did, at least in
my world of Washington, d C. Was last summer when
he got into a physical altercation with Scott Bessett, the
Treasury Secretary of all people.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Remember like a year or two ago, when Elon kept
promoting all these picturesque images and artwork own X, maybe
with landscapes, maybe a beautiful bed, some flowers. To me,
it was just such a stark reminder that among all
these global stakes, there's a human inside this story.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
One day, Elon was going on a tirade on X
and then basically said we need to get rid of
the International Space Station, and that had a lot of
reverberations throughout the space on the street. So yeah, those
were some big unexpected moments.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Okay, so that was in order. Josh Green fellow con
College alone Magnus Henrickson, our supervising producer, making his on
air debut on the last show, Max Deep cut there
from Man and that I went on and on and
notice how Man I remember it didn't cut back his own.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Vividly and super fans of the show will remember on
our second end of the Year special, it might have
been the second episode of the second end of the
year special, says you remember, David, you were not making these.
You were on vacations, enjoying your holidays. But the rest
of us here were Those were two parts. Anyway, we
had some fun talking about these, like beautiful I guess
(11:50):
maybe possibly AI generated or AI slop type room scapes
or whatever. We're like, Eli.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
It seemed to make an to really have an impact
on Max.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Elon would like spend like three hundred and and sixty
three days out of the year just posting the most
provocative stuff you could possibly imagine on X and like
two days out of the year, would say to himself,
wait a minute, wait a minute, like have I gone
too far? Maybe I should just put a like beautiful
(12:20):
room here and encourage people to post more nice things.
And I don't know, Yeah, it was very funny. I
agree that that was.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
A good one, and it's all Magnus seems to have remembered,
so apparently mister musket worked. The other person we heard
from there in the end talking about space and SpaceX
was Lauren Grush Kurt Wagner. What say you your wildest
favoritestest moment these past two years?
Speaker 6 (12:49):
Well, since I'm going like twentieth on the list, my
top two and they go in order. The breakup was
number one, Max is correct. The GFY on stage in
New York, I think was number two. But I'm shocked
no one has said the third most surprising, which is
Everything's computer. Do you remember when the White House was
turned into a Tesla showroom and the President of the
(13:12):
United States like was selling America Tesla's from the lawn
of the White House. That was a pretty crazy moment.
And I think what made it so like interesting was
also just the visual of it, Like it wasn't just
he said or tweeted something. It was like we saw
them standing there with the cars on the White House lawn,
and I think, you know, I had to go to
(13:34):
number three on my list because you know, someone didn't
call me in time.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
But I knew, I was confident. You're a resourceful sort,
and I knew you'd have you know, many many possibles.
I will go dead last. And I will also, without
pouting about it, Kurt, I will piggyback on others, especially Dana,
and say, yeah, just his stage presence in general. Not
only was the chainsaw one in the screaming of chain
(14:00):
saw chainsaw as he as he swung the chainsaw around,
but then the jumping around. Remember there was that Pennsylvania
dance he did little I just didn't know what to
do with. I still don't know what to do with that.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
I took the most obvious one. And and and I
kind of because you know, there so much has happened
over the last year, and I was thinking, as I
was listening to everybody else, give there is like one
thing that made this show sort of hard to make
and and maybe interesting is that maybe maybe Elon for
(14:38):
most of his career was very very successful and the
last two years have not been the most successful time
of Elon's career. I mean, besides the election of Donald Trump.
It's been actually pretty hard to find like real, I
don't know, like I guess.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
We've had from beyond from a monetary.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
No even monetarily, the stock is flat basic. I mean,
the stock hasn't gone up that much, Like I don't know,
like you go back to it's like basically a stock
price today as we record, this is about where it
was what at the end of Dani will know better
than me, but like end of twenty one or early
twenty two, Like it's a long We've had a long
period between drinks between yeah, and and like I guess
(15:16):
he did like put a chip in someone's brain.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, well, and I want to say, you is Max
right about this? Is he in a funk over there?
Speaker 4 (15:24):
I mean, so the Model Why was the best selling
car in the world in twenty twenty three, sold over
like one point two million units. That was like the
peak of Tesla as a car company. But since then, yeah,
like they're losing market share byd is taking over the world.
The stock is down from its peak right before the election.
I mean, I think that, Like the other sub narrative
(15:46):
is like Elon is bored of making cars and he's
completely pivoted his entire company, which has factories on three continents,
from making cars to making robots and being an AI company.
Like that's like a huge narrative shift that the communication
has been super weird about and that investors seem to
be buying, but like this is fundamentally a different company now.
Speaker 7 (16:07):
I mean, another really weird thing that happened this year
is he found a way to pay off all his
dat holders for buying Twitter. Like I didn't think that
would happen. I didn't think he would actually make them
whole in a short enough period of time. But he
found a way for XAI to swallow x and turn
it into something that was valued highly, so that, you know,
(16:32):
to his credit worked out.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Yeah, and the evaluation of his private companies continues skywreck at.
I mean, SpaceX is a highly valuable company, and so
I see your point, Max, But I still think that,
you know, he's still the richest person in the world.
He's still incredibly powerful. His empire is expanding. I mean,
they've got this data center in Memphis. They're going to
build stuff in Houston. Like his tentacles are continuing to
(16:56):
spread throughout the energy infrastructure of the United state dates
and as AI becomes a bigger thing, you're gonna see
Tesla selling its megapax to AI companies. I mean the
whole thesis of the show, which is that it's not
just Tesla or X or SpaceX, it's it's Elon Inc.
Is still very valid and stronger than ever.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Okay, so this is good because we're starting Dana is
starting to tip us into the future, into what's to
come here, So why don't we across the board here
all tell our listeners what what you guys think are
the biggest or the biggest Elon's story event slash storyline
that you will be following going forward. In other words,
(17:38):
I guess if you had to think about it, it would
be as goes X, not the company X. Sorry, as
goes fill in the blank, Comma, so too goes Elon Inc.
Max will start with you no, no, no, no way,
and we're not gonna start with Matt Yeah, Kurt exactly.
Speaker 6 (17:59):
I don't know how far the future we're allowed to go,
and I don't know how cheesy we're allowed to be.
Genuine great, My genuine answer is sending a human to Mars,
like we've been talking about it for you know whatever,
a decade plus, probably more than that.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
For for Elon, you've got a year, Wagner.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
What's your Yeah, give us a date on that one.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Oh, what is it?
Speaker 6 (18:21):
It is twenty twenty five? Checking, it's like the oldest
that was, like the old man thing.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
I just did what.
Speaker 6 (18:31):
I think we're another seven years away, No, ten years away.
I'm gonna say twenty thirty five, okay.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
And I would say if that happens, yes, the Elonian Empire,
wouldn't that be crazy?
Speaker 6 (18:44):
I mean we've been talking about it forever, and and
part of why I like it is it's one of
the very few things Elon touches that I think people
a broad spectrum of people are interested in and excited about,
which is the idea of doing something in space that
has never been done before. It is not controversial in
the way almost everything else he does is. And so
(19:06):
for me, I think that will be a fun moment
if it actually happens, because I think people who don't
like Elon will be rallied behind the effort.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Got it.
Speaker 7 (19:15):
I feel like I disagree that it's not controversial though,
Like people are really pissed off. Yeah, they're like they're like,
you're spending all these natural resources on sending us to
Mars when like, there's so much to fix about our
current planet.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Don't give up on this planet yet. Stick with this planet,
invest in it before you are ready to hop scotch
over to another.
Speaker 7 (19:34):
The idea of being a multiplanetary species, it's pretty cool.
Speaker 6 (19:38):
Yeah, So that's me there you go, all right?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
So Sarah Fryar, what say you?
Speaker 7 (19:43):
I mean, the thing I'm really just thinking is going
to drive so much in the next few years is
this rivalry with Sam Almon and open Ai and the
idea that Musk is just going to do whatever he
can to capture that success for himself and exceed it.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Right.
Speaker 7 (20:03):
So he's got the lawsuit, he's got the data centers,
he's got the plan for Tesla to invest in XAI,
he's got all of these irons in the fire that
are aimed at overtaking. He's got Grock. So I think
that that's going to be like a driving force for him,
(20:24):
and we've seen it already affect so much of his behavior.
But the idea that he like left open AI and
then it became so successful, I think really eats at him.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah, And I guess that's right. I mean, Max, if
you think about the whole way he is in tipping
Tesla to the direction he's tipping it is indeed, part
of it feels like at some level in part fueled
by this beef with Altman.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
I mean, I wonder how when the Ai bubble bursts,
whether it's a bubble, or whether this kind of period
of exuberance just sort of fizzles a little bit, Like
how that is going to impact Elon's empire because he
is really really Sarah's hinting at it right, like he
is really heavily met on this, on this thing continuing,
(21:12):
and so because and you could see it in the
valuation of x Ai, you can see it in the
valuation of Tesla, and the way he's he's sort of
pivoting Tesla, and in the and in this sort of
echo that that happens on the stock market where like
Tesla's you know, wildly overvalued relative to its business, Like
that has been a thing that we have sort of
(21:34):
talked about over and over again on this podcast. And
if if for some reason that changed then, or even
if it even if it were valued a little bit differently,
that would be kind of like a catastrophic thing for
to happen to Elon, Like it wouldn't. It's not like
it would bankrupt him. It's not like it would take
away the car sales. It's not like it would take
away any of these achievements. But it would put him
(21:55):
in a very very different position.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, it would certainly make the pivot to AI going
all in on AI feel like.
Speaker 7 (22:01):
You can certainly be less rich than Larry Ellison at
that point.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
But Larry Ellison's well, wood fall too would fall too, right.
Speaker 7 (22:08):
Well, that's true, that's true.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Who does that? Then? That brings up I don't know.
I don't know that whoever that person is that goes
to number one, that's that'll be the next show that
the Walton's coming back Walmart Inc. Dana guide us. What's
your thought?
Speaker 4 (22:24):
I mean, the next decade of ELIN is going to
be super interesting because now you know, Tesla's board has
proposed this incredible you know, mars shot pay package to
keep him focused on hitting all of these like sort
of AI goals and making it an eight point five
trillion dollar company. And ten years from now, Elon Musk
will be like sixty four sixty five, like like we
(22:45):
have to sort of like think about the secession plan
for his companies whenever he decides to hand over the reins.
So I think that's like a super interesting storyline. And
then like his personal life, I think is still an
endless source of decination. Like one of the big reveals
of the past year was that Ashley Saint Clair revealed
that she had also had a child with Elon Musk.
(23:07):
So that makes fourteen that we know of. And you know,
between his businesses, his involvement in national politics, and also
his sort of like obsession with declining birth rates and fertility,
Like I still am just super interested in that, Like
what is he doing on that from a business perspective?
Like is he investing in fertility startups or IVF centers?
(23:31):
Like he's got to be doing something beyond just per
creating himself. That's my suspicion, all.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Right, Dana, And you don't have to answer this if
you don't want to, But I'm curious what you think
the real number is. So, like we know of fourteen,
do you is it double? Is it triple? Is it?
Do we need a third digit to express that number?
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Is he like an anonymous sperm donor like there was
something about a Japanese pop star at some point.
Speaker 7 (23:58):
I really don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
That's right. It's your turn, mister Chaffkin. What you got.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Can I react to something Kurt said first before I
give mine yes, which is committed? I agree, like a
person going to Mars would be an amazing achievement. And
I think and when Kurt first said it, I was like, oh,
come on bike, Because Elon has said we're going to
send somebody like in two years or something. He's given
these ridiculously optimistic goals, and I think ten years is
(24:25):
probably like a more plausible suggestion, maybe even a little longer.
But I want to just say, like, that's not going
to be just Elon Musk's achievement. Like Elon Musk may
play a role in that story, and if that story happens,
he will likely play a role, but he won't be
the only player in that story. It's going to be
an achievement for the United States and for humanity. And
(24:49):
I think people sometimes make mistakes when they give Elon
credit for things that aren't totally his doing, right, like
this is and I think this has come up a
lot in the SpaceX story. There's a lot to talk
about how SpaceX is the only like it's like SpaceX
versus NASA, which kind of alides the fact that SpaceX
is a NASA contractor that some NASA administrator was like, Hey,
(25:10):
it would be a really good idea to fund this
company to provide commercial transport, and it also alides all
the other players in this value chain, and so just
wanted to put that out there. I just feel like
sometimes we buy into this narrative like Elon is like
the sole actor moving us to Mars, and it's like, yeah, yeah.
The other thing I want to say is I.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
So, Kurt, that was laying man, That's what Max is
telling you.
Speaker 7 (25:33):
It was a question the opposite.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
I thought he was just validating my wonderful preception.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
So thank you, Max. What do you got? What are
you expecting? What are you closely watching? With baited breath?
Speaker 5 (25:46):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Politics and Elon's continued political engagement. I think, Uh, this
is a huge question. There's a line in the Tesla
proxy that says he's going to wind down his political activities.
Bloomberg TV just had an interview with Robin Denholm, where
our colleague and friend of the podcast ed Ludlow asked,
or maybe it was Caroline Hyde, Ed's co host, what
(26:08):
do you mean by wind down? And she just didn't
answer the question because and effectively indicated that they consider
donating talking about politics, maybe even engaging in like a
political party, to be his personal political activities. I would
guess that his personal political activities will be like the
(26:30):
defining story of not just Elon world, but of all
of Republican politics and maybe all of national politics.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
If it goes, if it goes sideways on him, does
it threaten to derail the empire, the Musk Empire?
Speaker 3 (26:45):
No, I mean, what do you mean derail the musket.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I don't know, like sink it, you know, sink its
value towards zero.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Well, he's got a lot of money to spend it
on politics, So like, I'm not really sure like.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
What I'm getting. Like, So, for instance, right now, when
you guys talk about the lapse in the fundamentals of Tesla,
one of the big drivers of the collapse of the
fundamentals in Tesla is he is now alienated. Oh, I
don't know, with his politics, he's alienated maybe sixty or
seventy percent of his potential buyer base.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Or I think, like Dana has said a bunch of times,
he's moving on from the car business. So yes, he's
he's alienated his basically customers.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
He needs political modes, he needs become a business that
have still as a meme stock.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Now, So like when we talk about the value of Tesla,
we're saying, like, at what point were these shareholders decide
that they don't like it anymore? And I feel very
I would not feel confident predicting that the stock's that's cool,
you know what I'm saying, Well, that's.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Cool, but like it is worth near it is worth
more than a trillion dollars, And I would just say
that at some point it's possible that if the financials
in the short term collapse to an extent that like,
oh my god, you know we're cash flow negative again.
I know, you could get a holy crap moment. I'm
(28:03):
not predicting all.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Of the thing is, I think Elon has enough juice
within the conservative movement and enough money that he's not
going to be on an island by himself. He has
an important ally in Vice President j. D. Vance, he
has important allies in the Republican Party. It's true that
he and Trump don't have a good relationship, but I
would be really, really, really surprised if he is not
(28:26):
a factor in Republican politics in the midterm and in
the next presidential election.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
I think the mistake that people make about Elon is
time and again people think, Okay, this is it, this
is going to be the downfall of Elon Musk. But
he is too big to fail. He has a wide
ranging empire, with installations in several congressional districts. He has
lucrative government contracts. He is deeply embedded in several different industries,
(28:51):
and the car business is only one of them. I mean,
for all of the consternation about his involvement in politics,
like the company is still worth over trillion dollars, like
it does it, Like yes, it has impacted sales, but
it has not impacted him in the eyes of investors.
And there is a sloop of you know, Wall Street
investment banks and analysts and Musk, and like time it again,
they will make fees working with this guy, and he
(29:14):
is brilliant at raising money, and like people want to
invest in him, like they will invest in whatever he
wants to do.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
I would say, Dana, that absolutely you were ahead of
that and saying this guy, it's less like, it's far
less likely that he will he will blow up years ago,
when many others were saying he would. My issue is,
I think nobody's saying that now. And maybe that's right.
Maybe he is too big, and maybe that is right.
I just don't know that just given the nature of
(29:42):
how divisive he is and how given how many plates
he's got in the air and this and that, I
just think it's still an open ending question. And given
how he has alienated a huge part of his of
his customer base. And maybe you're right, Max, maybe all
of his future businesses are totally shielded from this. Maybe
his future your businesses. Whether or not he's alienated a
customer base, maybe that doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Maybe, I mean, you obviously become bias based on what
you've seen and having seen as we have Elon survive
scandal after scandal after scandal, what's going to do him?
So like, obviously Elon's empire could go and decline. It
maybe already is in decline. I think there's a chance
you look at you.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
You were sort of arguing that yourself.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
You look back, I think there's a chance, like we
look back twenty years from now and we say, yep,
this was the moment when when he started.
Speaker 7 (30:31):
I think that's a good question, Like has Elon peaked?
I think we were like looking at this, you know,
this podcast ending and it's like, well, this was the
year that Elon was the quote unquote shadow president, right.
He he got as close to geopolitical peak of power
as you can get without actually being president. And that's over.
(30:55):
So has his influence peaked? I guess maybe not like
his I think his businesses have lots of second lives.
But has his influence on the geopolitical order peaked? Maybe
it has, Maybe it's just the beginning. Maybe Elon Musk
(31:16):
continues internationally, makes big change in Europe. We don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Before we go to the more concrete predictions part of
the show, I will just say one thing looking back,
I will pivot back. Now we would not be talking
about Elon Mustard. He would be a nobody if interest
rates in this country weren't zero for the better part
of the past twenty years. That is also an enormous
(31:42):
thing that helped him survive that whole time. If interest
rates weren't zero in money, an insane amounts of money
weren't slashing around the global economy and in the US
economy and the US financial system, he wouldn't have gotten
those much needed injections of cash, and he and his
companies were like razor close to going under. That's my
(32:05):
hot all right. We have from our good friends. We
have some concrete, tangible predictions here. They are let's listen.
Speaker 8 (32:15):
As much as he wants to stay away from politics,
I think it is like a moth to a flame.
They don't think he's totally done with politics.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
There's this big push for NASA to beat the Chinese
government to the moon, and so is there going to
be some kind of I guess division between NASA and
SpaceX if it's taking too long. So how will that
affect the NASA and SpaceX relationship going forward?
Speaker 1 (32:44):
In the next five years, el and the grandfather will
be kind of a reminder of him growing older. So
I wouldn't be surprised if we see, you know, Elan
and inconvertible.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
That's what I think is going to happen.
Speaker 9 (32:57):
I think in the next couple of years, Elon is
going to become Christian. I'm using air quotes. He keeps
tracking far right. JD Vance, late blooming Catholic Russell Brand
got baptized. But that's my prediction.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
Elon Musk Christian I have a feeling that the craziest
thing that will happen to Elon's future is on the
social media platform he owns.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
I think he's going to start to lose followers.
Speaker 12 (33:26):
I think the natural thing for Elon is that he's
going to have to pick a fight with a new
high profile nemesis. And the guy that seems most obvious
to me would be Sam Altman. This is the Elon
story that will keep us all riveted and watching and
reading and podcasting about Elon in the year ahead.
Speaker 10 (33:42):
I think we're in for another X post that causes
a you have said the actual truth level uproar or worse.
Elon has just been getting darker and darker on X
of late, and I can see Musk in his words,
uttering something that is a new, worst and dumbest post
that he's ever done.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Okay, that was in order again. Joel Weber, Lauren Grush,
the Great Magnus Henrickson, Brendan Newnham, Rayjan Harmanci, Josh Green,
Craig Trudell Sarah, Josh, there was on your Sam Altman feud.
Everyone's getting hyped up about this. This is gonna happen,
isn't it.
Speaker 7 (34:23):
It is happening. It's happening right now.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
It is happening the actual cage match Man Max in
an actual cage match. Alan doesn't matter. He's a small guy.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Yeah, you know. The one thing I'll say is he is.
He does seem to have some agility, so that could
give him.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
He's nimble, he's nimble. It would give him an advantage.
He could run circles around around Musk. Before I press
you guys for predictions on a couple specific things, any
other reactions to our Those are some lame predictions.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
That's my reaction.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
I mean, like, well, you don't like Magnus's prediction.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
And they've already they've all, like all, every single one
of them have already happened. I thinks is a Christian
Elon sells or I mean he has sold in the
past a convertible. I'm sure he owns their must.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Becoming a Christian.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
I don't know. He tweets about Christianity all the time.
Sam Almon feud is going on right now like I
want some real predictions from this crew. Actually, Rayhon had
a good bold one, which was that he would lose
Twitter followers.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Yeah, okay, the rest of you, guys, Weber, Rush, Hendricks
and Nunam Hermansi, Green Trudell, you all suck, says Mac.
Last question here, last question that you'll ever be asked
on the Elon Show as Elon goes away. But Elon himself,
(35:47):
of course, until he may leave this earth, keeps doing
his thing. So my question for all of you is,
tell me what the next company is that he found. Kurt,
start with you, give us, give me your best answer,
don't think too much about it. And Kirk, because you're
always crying that we go to you last night, we'll
(36:08):
go to you first again. Let's go if and when
Musk dials up a new company, what is it? What's
the new company? What's the business?
Speaker 6 (36:18):
Come on, I'm gonna piggyback on Dana and say something
to do with fertility and birth rates. So I don't
know if it'll be science based or what, but it'll
have to do with more people having more kids.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
It's like a birth control pill that doesn't work is
gonna be I've got one.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
I mean, he's always talked about how candy bar suck,
Like why isn't there a new candy bar? Like why
are we suck with Snickers? You know, Snickers and movie way, Like,
He's often intimated that there should be like a new
a new kind of candy.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Do we think that's right? Do we think Snicker sucks?
Speaker 3 (36:49):
No, Snickers is like undeniably the best candy bar.
Speaker 6 (36:52):
Right, He's the new Willy Wantka.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah, yeah, these are not crap that that that our
friends send us. Okay, so we've got we've got a
sex fertility robot.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Fertility.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
I think I feel like there's gonna be a robot
that's gonna make this happen. We've got a candy bar, Sarah,
what do you got?
Speaker 7 (37:14):
I'm gonna I'm gonna piggyback on what Kurt said and
say that he's going to try to make the Optimist
robots be able to carry children.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
What if there's an Optimist neural link kind of tie
in and like there's some kind of way to program
it to breed, right, all right?
Speaker 6 (37:33):
I thought I had a pretty reasonable like fertility thing
which is now quickly turned into sex robots. So I
just want to point out that my original prediction.
Speaker 7 (37:43):
He's very into like outsourcing the creation of children.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Elon is pretty much said he's going to develop sex robots, right,
I mean, he's he's.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Like everything everybody says. Max's answers, she's already said that,
he's already done. What do you got.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
My prediction is that in uh January twenty thirty one,
Elon Musk will be inaugurated as the next governor of Texas.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Wow, that's a that's not a come. It's a gotta company.
But it's all right, we'll it, We'll let it go.
And and he is, of course legally allowed to run.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Right And I think, I mean so obviously when you
get somebody like Elon Musk, rich guy, loves to be
in politics, likes to be at the center of things,
there's often speculation about a run for president. I guess
never discount it, right, He's he's attempted crazy year things
in the past. Maybe, But I kind of think being
governor is fun. It's probably more fun than being president.
(38:42):
He lives in Texas, it's a conservative state. He's one
of the most famous people like it in the worldly.
I guarantee you there are political consultants who have contemplated
this already. I don't know, I could kind of see
it like like Schwarzenegger basically.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
But but Elon right, very good. We are adjourned for
the last time, and let's get this right. As I
say goodbye to everybody, Sarah, Dana, Kurt, Max, it's been
a pleasure, great to be here.
Speaker 6 (39:15):
It's been a ride.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
Thanks guys, see you on everybody's business.
Speaker 7 (39:18):
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah, we're going to check on those predictions, yes, in
a few years.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
This episode was produced by Stacy Wang and edited by Annamasarrakas.
Our supervising producer, as always, was Magnus Hendrickson. The Elon Inc.
Theme was written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex
Sugiurra Blake Maple's handled engineering, and Dave Purcell fact checked.
And I want to extend a big, big thanks to
all of them and everyone else who worked hard behind
(39:53):
the scenes to make the show go these past two years.
Elon Inc. Out tasty, ste
Host
David Papadopoulos
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