January 21, 2025 • 31 mins
All eyes were on Washington, DC, this past weekend, when Elon Musk joined Donald Trump’s inauguration events bigly, as our once and current president would say. The news was flowing throughout, including changes to the nascent DOGE project and a very controversial hand gesture. Also controversial? Musk’s ongoing video game scandal, in which influential gamers have accused Musk of not actually getting to the upper echelon of a few games by himself. To discuss DC, host David Papadopoulos is joined by series regulars Max Chafkin and Dana Hull, and Bloomberg video game reporter Cecilia D’Anastasio later joins to talk about her new story on the affair.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
More than half the satellites in space are owned and
controlled by one man.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Well, he's a legitimate, super genius, legitimate.
Speaker 5 (00:24):
He says.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will
be different.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
He'll vote Republican. There is a reason the US government
is so reliant on him.
Speaker 6 (00:31):
Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Anything he does, he's fascinating people.
Speaker 5 (00:48):
Welcome to Eylan Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk.
It's Tuesday, January twenty First, I'm your host, David Papadopolis.
We have a new president officially, and Elon was right
in the thick of all the pomp and circumstance. There
were plenty of fireworks on day one of the Trump administration,
including a commitment to send astronauts to Mars, but much
(01:12):
of the conversation was about a certain hand gesture that
Musk made at an inauguration rally. We're going to dive
into all of that and then talk about the other
scandal brewing out there. We have a major, major development
in the Elon video game cheating saga. To discuss Musk
(01:32):
and Trump, we have our regulars with us, Max Chafkin
and Dana Hall. Max, Dana, Hello to you.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Hey David, Hey David.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
Then Cecilia Donastasio, Bloomberg's video game reporter, will bring us
her reporting on the Musk gaming situation. But first, let's
listen to Trump himself at his inaugural address yesterday, and we.
Speaker 6 (01:56):
Will pursue our manifest Destiny into the Stars, launching American
a US or nuts to plant the stars and stripes
on the planet.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
Mars, Dana Hull. Pretty big moment there for Elon Musk.
Speaker 6 (02:12):
Oh. Yeah, going to Mars has been the animating force
of Elon Musk's life forever. And what was really notable
about what Trump said is that he didn't mention the
Moon at all. And NASA has this whole program called
Armis which is all about going to the moon, and
so the fact that he focused on Mars, it was
like this huge gift to Elon, and Elon was super
thrilled about it.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
Yeah, you know, being the avid listener of the show
I am when not hosting it. I listened to last
week's show and Dana and repeatedly in that show, you
had said again how just how damn serious he is
about going to Mars and how everything else in his
life revolves around that, and watching him react his reaction
(02:55):
was pretty funny, I would say to when Trump said
that this is to a certain degree, kind of feels
like all that matters to him.
Speaker 6 (03:04):
Well, and that's been the case forever. And I think
that the mistake that people have made is because Tesla
is a public company and SpaceX is a private one,
so many people view him through the lens of Tesla
because that's where he's a public CEO. But SpaceX is
the company that he founded. It is the driving force
of his whole life and has been forever, and like
(03:25):
everything has always been about going to space and going
to Mars and making life multiplanetary. And we have tape
of him speaking, right.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
Yeah, let's listen to more inauguration day tape. Here's Musk
in his own words, and we're going to take those
to Mars.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
I mean, can you imagine how awesome it will be
to have American astronauts plant the flag on another planet
for the first time.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
Yeah, when Dana tells us that this is all he
cares about in life. This is all he cares about
in life. That's about as excited as someone can be.
But my question for you is this amazing thing for
him that Trump kind of makes it a commitment in
his speech there in the Capitol. But how do these
things work? Like, what are the practical effects of this?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Well, so the thing Dana kind of hinted at it.
But right now there is a Moon program and the assumption,
i think before this happened really before, and there have
been some hints of this long campaign trail, the assumption
has been that, you know, this Moon program would go forward.
SpaceX it was supposed to play a part of this program,
but not the launch vehicle. Meanwhile, it has this, it
(04:47):
has this really large rocket that is essentially built on
specially what do they call it, Well, they have a
new name now it's called Starship David, but that is
what that is what Elon Musk originally called it. And again,
this is a rocket that doesn't yet have a market
really for it.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
It's so big, right like.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
That when we've talked about this the Moon, we've talked
about this, well, no, not necessarily, I'm just saying that
that's not the way that the Artomist program is designed
at the moment. So so if they cancel the Artomist
program and and throw all those funds into this into
a quick Mars mission, which is is kind of what
Trump has hinted at on the campaign trail and and
and in bringing this up without mentioning the Moon, I mean,
(05:28):
that would be a huge windfall for Elon Musk. It
wouldn't just be a fulfillment of Elon Musk's personal manifest destiny,
his personal and profound ideological desire to like get to Mars.
It would also be incredibly meaningful for SpaceX.
Speaker 5 (05:44):
You you had that prediction, uh, for our mind our
listeners man.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
That you know, SpaceX's valuation and Tesla's valuation are going
to converge. We didn't dwell on that, but that was
that was a very provocative prediction. And I think that
that if this were to really happen, yes, SpaceX would
be a lot more valuable than this today.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
Look at that brilliant I love it. Max, Danna tell
me this on this whole going to Mars thing, Ken Trump,
even with Elon Musk by his side, realistically pull this off.
In one term, I mean, I.
Speaker 6 (06:17):
Would think that most people would say no, that getting
to Mars, particularly getting humans to Mars, is going to
take much much longer. But you know, Elon is a
man in a hurry, and he always has very aggressive
timelines and he would love nothing more than to at
least try as soon as possible. And you're seeing Starship
launch over and over again, and you know each time
(06:37):
they get better at it. I mean, there are always
like snaffoos, but that's how they iterate, that's how they learn.
And SpaceX is just lightning years ahead of any competitor
in terms of having a vehicle that could potentially make
the journey.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
There's a launch window essentially every two years, so they
would have to hit I mean, to make this actually
happen within Trump's term, they would have to have a
launch I believe it's in twenty twenty six. It would
have to go well and then they and that would
allow conceivably, you know, astronauts at the very end of
Trump's term to blast off. Now again, I think Dan
(07:10):
is right, this is like super hypothetical. The whole history
of space explorations, particularly human beings in space. We don't
like to put our astronauts, our brave, these brave people
who are are sacrificing in jeopardy. So I think if
you were betting on this, it makes sense to be skeptical.
On the other hand, Dana's right, like and and Elon
(07:31):
is definitely going for it. He's definitely trying to do this.
It's it's not clear that will succeed.
Speaker 5 (07:35):
Yeah, and Trump and Musk very aligned in that way.
They're both great hype men, and so they are, you know,
simultaneously mutually hyper.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
They just just in terms to bring up one other
sort of potential stump fuck.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
Mildly so Artemis.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
The Moon program has a bunch of big American defense
contractors who are signed up making stuff for it, including
Boeing and North or so each of these The idea
to like of shutting, of turning this program off or
winding it down or something will have serious political implications
in congressional districts all across the country. They're definitely people
(08:13):
who want to think we should be going to the
moon first.
Speaker 5 (08:16):
It's been a while since we've been to the moon.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Max.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
Now, Max, you heard him say, Musk that is that
he's taking Doge to Mars. He's gonna take the entire
committee perhaps, and the cryptocurrency didn't specify to Mars set
up offices there. But Doge, you know, was in the
news on inauguration day as well. I mean Trump had
(08:41):
just been sworn in. They hadn't even stopped singing glory, glory, hallelujah.
And the lawsuit against those dropped.
Speaker 7 (08:49):
The lawsuit that several lawsuits several there are several lawsuits,
all challenging basically Doge's legality under aspects of the Constitution,
how federal law is structured.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I'm not an expert on an administrative law, but essentially
saying that these these are like extra.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Legal bodies and are not going to be allowed.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
I don't think we have a clear sense of how
significant these lawsuits are.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
Trump also sign.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
An executive order establishing DOZE, and I'm sorry to report
David that the executive order does not include any mention
of the role that DOGE will play on any non
earth bodies.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
Dana. So, DOZE has now been sued. It has scaled
back its goals a bit. It's saying, no longer is
it feasible to cut two trillion a year in government spending.
It's now down talking about maybe one trillion, which is
still a very very large number. But we do have
another development, which is that Elon is now the sole
(09:57):
leader of Doze. Vivek Ramis is out. Is that correct?
Speaker 6 (10:02):
That is correct. It's very disappointing because now we can't
use the phrase Muskaswamy, which Don moynihan had sort of pioneered.
But yet Ramaswami is going to focus on his own
political career in Ohio and has sort of you know,
stepped aside. The White House put out like a statement
about it yesterday. So you know, this whole idea of
Doge being co led, you know, has now fallen apart.
(10:24):
It's really Musk.
Speaker 5 (10:25):
Did Musk bump him out? Is that what happened?
Speaker 6 (10:28):
I mean, I don't know personally too clear, Like you know,
Doge was a Musk's idea Doge. Musk proposed the idea
of Doge to Trump when he had Trump on an
X spaces in August. I don't think he ever wanted
a co leader, and at the rally at Madison Square
Garden that Max and I were both that originally, like
(10:49):
Howard Lutnik was sort of floated as the co leader
of Doge and then he got pushed aside, and then
it was Vivek and that didn't last for very long.
So I don't think that Elon ever intended to do
this with a partner.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
My spin is their efficiencies already taking place right cut
one job.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
My sense from talking to people around Trump and is
that really Ramaswami did this to himself. You remember back
at the end of last year there Elon Musk kind
of went on this tear around h one b Visas.
Ramaswami actually chimed in kind of defending Elon Musk and
made a bunch of comments that I think, in certain
(11:29):
ways came off even worse than the than the Musk comments,
talking about essentially that that perceived as attacking American workers
and implying that American workers were sort of like not
qualified for the best jobs. It's also true that there
was this kind of inherent rivalry.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Danis hinting at it.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
You know, Ramaswami was sort of shoehorn into this thing,
and you know, it was never totally clear why, because
this was obviously a Musk idea from the beginning, and
I'd say ram Swami, I think was always kind of
aiming in this kind.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Of political trajectory.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
You know, there's been there's been talk of him potentially
running for governor, even before this of Ohio, even before
this this like latest thing with with Musk. So so
I think it feels like a bunch of factors, but
you got to say like it it is, first of all,
Elon consolidating his influence within Trump World. And and okay,
somebody's maybe been bounced out of the orbit connected to Doge,
(12:27):
but it certainly wasn't Elon Musk. Elon Musk, as we
saw from yesterday, is enjoying the same extremely high level
access that he has you know, been enjoying for for months.
Speaker 6 (12:38):
He has a White House email address now too. I
mean that that's really wild this ye.
Speaker 5 (12:43):
And the end. I know that you guys talked about
this last week with Josh, But does he have this
blue pant.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
We're seeing Yeah, we're seeing reporting now.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
ABC News reported a few hours ago as we're recording this,
that that they had that they were hearing that he
was going to have the blue badge.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
This was the badge that we talked about with Josh.
Speaker 5 (12:59):
Greg get some as allow.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Him to kind of walk into the Oval office.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
There's also been ordered diet cokes.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
There's also been suggestions in reporting, although it's not totally
clear if this is definitely true or not to me anyway,
that he would have some kind of office space in
the in the actual White House and not in addition
to offices in the Executive Office building. I mean, the
bottom line is going to have a lot of access.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
I will say.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Reading this executive order, and I read it closely because
not very longin is pretty easy. It doesn't say anything
about cutting costs. It actually just talks about sort of
upgrading the IT systems, the government software system.
Speaker 5 (13:37):
Now that's code for cutting spending.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
I don't know that exact, David.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
All of my twenty years of reporting on software, I
can tell you that software does.
Speaker 5 (13:47):
Not expense it.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
It's often a way to increase spending rather than cut it.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
Dana Hall, The day was not without controversy, though there
were several controversial things that took place. But as it
regards specifically to Elon Musk, there was a salute that
caused quite a stir. He made this gesture while giving
a speech yesterday. Tell us as best you can what
(14:12):
it looked like.
Speaker 6 (14:13):
Okay, so mus did this gesture two and a half times.
He put his right hand over his heart, and then
he gave a salute to the front of the audience.
Then he turned around and he did it a second time,
and then he put his hand over his heart yet again.
You know, if you are being generous to Elon, he
was making an awkward gesture in a time of heightened
(14:34):
excitement where he was basically trying to show the crowd
that he really loved them. To historians who study fascism,
this was like the Hitler salute or the Roman salute.
And you know, immediately, like the Internet was just wild, like,
oh my god, did Elon just do the Nazi salute.
I can't speak with any fidelity as to whether he
intended to do this or not. It made a huge sture.
(14:56):
John Stewart talked about it last night. Historians were apoplectic.
But it was also like a signal, like you saw
a lot of people on the right sort of embrace this,
like Andrew Tate and people from gab and elsewhere. So
it was sort of like, whether it was intentional or not,
it sort of sent a signal of sorts to the
dark corners of the Internet and then, interestingly, the Anti
(15:16):
Defamation League put out a tweet that was sort of
giving Musk cover, where they basically said, quote, it seems
that Elon Musk made an awkward gesture in a moment
of enthusiasm, not a Nazi salute, but again, we appreciate
that people are on edge. And then Musk of course
quoted the post and wrote thanks guys. So it was
all very It was all very weird. You know, I
(15:38):
have never seen him do that before. And I've seen
him and Max has as well. I've seen him speak
in a lot of different settings. He certainly never did
it on the campaign trail. So it was just it
was very odd.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
On that last point. This is what occurs to me. Yeah,
you're saying you've never seen Musk do it before. I
don't know that in my life, and you guys tell
me about yours that I've ever seen anyone do it
by mistake before. Is that something that like, whoops, you know,
I just I meant to do something else and that
came out.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Matt, That is what I was thinking. I mean, this
is not a thing that anyone does by mistake. Ever.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
That said, and I think this is important. We are
not as steeped in the world of far right and
white nationalism and anti semitism that Elon Musk is and like,
as we've talked about on this podcast over and over again.
Leave the Gester aside. This is somebody who has brought,
you know, Nazis and white supremacists onto his platform, who
(16:36):
has interacted with Nazis and white supremacists on his platform,
who has repeated anti Semitic conspiracy theories. And if you
have that kind of media diet's it seems to me
possible that that gestures that would be unthinkable for somebody
who did not have that media diet might come out accidentally.
(16:57):
And so I do think it's possible that this was
an accident, but it definitely you can understand why people
are troubled by it, especially in light of Musk's long,
long track record.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
In this area.
Speaker 6 (17:11):
And I just want to read another comment that was
in our story today. A historian of fascism here, wrote
Ruth ben Giah, she's a professor of history at NYU.
It was a Nazi salute and a very belluderent one too.
And I think the fact that he did it not
once but twice and then almost like a halftime is
what also really struck people.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I thought it was a deep fake when I saw it, honestly,
because I saw it and I thought this has to
be fake because from the outside that sort of looked
like now, I did not see it that the original
clip I saw was not the full clip in context
where he holds his hand to his heart. So maybe,
and I think it's like all of these things, it's
(17:49):
important that we look at them with the total picture,
and the total picture is one where we've seen Musk
embracing some of these extreme and arker and more offensive forces,
you know.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
For years now. Danna, you said that Musk had thanked
the ADL for the statement he put out. Has he
said anything else about the controversy beyond that.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
Yeah, he basically said they're gonna have to come up
with better dirty tricks. I mean, he sees this as
a smear campaign, similar to when he kind of was
tweeting out the great replacement theory stuff that we wrote
about like a year ago. He sees this as a
as a smear campaign, that he's a victim, that this
is the legacy media, you know, grasping at straws, and so, yeah,
(18:33):
he tweeted out something about that last night.
Speaker 5 (18:35):
All Right, Dana, we are going to say goodbye to
you for now. We will see you next week. Thanks.
All right now, Max, you and I after that chat,
we need to lighten the mood a little. We're gonna
we're gonna do something a little more fun.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, I mean, we got to get into this video
game cheating scandal.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
David. It's it's it's the only thing.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
That anyone was talking about while while they were watching
the inauguration.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Anyway, Clearly he's trying to do the map that's not
in the chain.
Speaker 5 (19:04):
He's just clicking a map repeatedly trying to access it.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
He was not eligible to endo that map.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I just want you as to understand this is one
of the highest level hardcore characters in the game. He
would have played thousands of maps at this point.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
He literally didn't know how to open a map just
ring bus Kazobs.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
He just ran us.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
The gazob cast arms are one of the most important currencies.
So he's playing no filter, and he didn't pick up
the kiss or he's.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Not presing his Monoplaus.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
He's not freaking Amuntoflus, He's not freasing amount Max. I'm
struggling to dig this segment super seriously after what we heard,
but Cecilia Denistasio, our video game reporter, takes it very seriously.
It's what she does for a living for us here
at Bloomberg. Cecilia, welcome to the show. What did we
(19:51):
just hear exactly? Uh, we on this show touched upon
this whole saga a little bit last week. But bring
us up to speed because there's been some deve.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Yeah, there have been some developments. So for a couple
of months now, Elon Musk has been bragging that he
is one of the top players of two very popular
video games, Diablo for and Path of Exile two. And
you know a lot of gamers have been pointing out
that Elon Musk is the CEO of six companies and
a lot of recent college graduates aren't able to reach
(20:24):
the high rungs of gamerdom that Elon Musk seems to
have himself. So what we heard in that clip was
a couple of gamers commenting over Elon Musk himself playing
the video game Path of Exile too.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
They seem to be mocking him, Cecilia.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
They are mocking him because look, I play these games,
and I was one of these people when I was
watching him play this game, like, h, he's out of mana,
please use the manifest, use the Manoflast, use the manoflask and.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
He does it, and you the same thing that they
were saying as you were watching it.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yes, because look, he's bragging about having these very high
level characters that take a lot of time to level up,
and he's playing in a way that maybe you know,
doesn't seem to indicate that he had leveled up his
character himself.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
I see.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
So wait, just to translate here, yes, translation.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
The point of this story is that Musk had basically
presented in his own telling, and I'd say, in the
telling of maybe some people close to him, that he was,
you know, a world class player in these video games.
And these Cecilia experienced gamer as well as these other
gamers that we're hearing, are basically seeing holes in that story.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
Correct, correct, Okay, now that's where we were as of
a few hours ago. But Cecilia looks like there's evidence
that Musk himself perhaps has admitted that indeed he was
cheating all along.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah, it's funny you use the word cheating because it's cheating. Well,
the video game developers say it's not kosher either, according
to their terms of service. But what Musk allegedly did
was have somebody else level up his accounts for him, which,
if you are listening to this podcast.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
So sorry, I account what's that meaning?
Speaker 5 (22:15):
Exactly? Help us out here, Max and I are idiots.
What what is leveling up?
Speaker 4 (22:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:20):
So you create a character playing one of these games
and say you want to get to the highest level
where the swaggiest gear fight the most hardcore monsters. Right,
but that takes a lot of time, hundreds or thousands
of hours. I interviewed a lot of people who offer
services to wealthy gamers who don't want to spend the
(22:41):
hundreds or thousands of hours killing little goblins and leveling
up the characters. Like, you know, if you're the CEO,
for example, six companies, maybe you don't want to be
hitting goblins.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Even just one for that matter, you know, or you know,
even if you just have normal adult responsibility.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Well that's a little condescending.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
Well correct, and Cecilia, no, you know. One of the
things I learned in your story, which is very good,
is that it is now cool, totally cool to me.
An adult gamer all along. The joke was on me then,
I guess, and I feel like I own an apology
to my son Miguel and my nephew Michael for mocking
him all these years. I'm sorry. It's cool to be
(23:21):
an adult gamer now, yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
I mean, if you are the king of the nerds
like Elon Musk, you know, wants to be and he
wants to use his like meme speak and you know,
be with it on Reddit like you know, being good
at gaming offers you a certain level of cultural cloud.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
H Okay, who knew? Now? But back to the admission,
What exactly did he say? And are we positive? Are
we positive that that admission actually came from Elon Musk? Gosh?
Speaker 1 (23:53):
I mean, it's it's really hard to say, but what
news outlets are reporting is that a very small YouTube
account had communication with Elon Musk in a direct message
on x in which this YouTuber asked, you know, hey,
did you level up these accounts yourself or did somebody
else do it for you? And Elon says, look, you know,
(24:17):
if you want to be competing with these high level
gamers in countries like Asia, you know everybody has somebody
else level up their accounts, and he indicates that he
did not do it himself, and that also he had
never represented that he had done it himself.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
I see, I'm curious. Can I ask you to a question, Yes, absolutely,
I mean.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Hearing hearing this story, like, how does this square with
the way that he's run his businesses over the last
couple of decades.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Well, okay, so one thing I want to say is,
you know, I've never covered the world of video game
cheating before chating, but I have, but I have some
experience in the in the world of sports cheating. And
this is a classic sort of non denial from Elon.
It's kind of like what Lance Armstrong has said. It's
(25:06):
what many dopers after they have been found to be
dopers say, which is basically like everyone was doing it,
there was no way to could never have won the
Tour de France without and which which is true, potentially true.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
But I just want to know it was just the
best of the cheaters.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
Not a great defense.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I think the thing that struck me about this scandal
or non scandal or whatever was that you saw a
bunch of people in Elon Musk's orbit kind of spring
up on Twitter over the last couple of days to
essentially say no, no, no, no, he really.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Was spending a lot of time playing video games.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
You didn't know how to open the what was it?
The mail?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Javon Zillis, mother of some of his children, tweeted yesterday
a year old video of Elon Musk gaming and then
saying that he played seventeen hours. It was part of
a seventeen hour push on Christmas Day.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
So God, this is getting depressing.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
So maybe that's how he fits it in. He's just
doing this on the holidays.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
Okay, So there's a good question for you, Cecilia, to
become that good, to become that guy does a periodic
seventeen hour binge on Christmas? Does that get you there?
Or are you just logging obscene amounts of hours day in,
day out, week in, week out.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
In my experience, it takes more than seventeen hours on
Christmas or an hour or two at the end of
your day running a couple of companies. But I mean, look,
he did play the video game himself when he was
live streaming to the audience, and it's not as if
he's never played a game before, like he's fine, he's
fine at these games, you know, But what was interesting
(26:48):
to people was the fact that he had represented that
he was one of the top players ever in some
of these games, which is really confusing when you go
out and livestream yourself. Right, That's the thing I don't understand.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
He exposed himself in a way that he didn't he
didn't really need to show.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I mean, look, this is a guy who is very
who has been very successful kind of creating an image
of himself, an image of himself as a larger than
life figure, as a guy who can simultaneously design a
car and a rocket and be awesome at video games.
And I don't know, he's obviously pretty stretched at this
point between the companies and between his political activities and
(27:32):
and also perhaps not spending as not not being quite
as precise in his personal branding as he used to
as we just as we just saw talking about this
this gesture, and it just it just it feels I
don't know, sloppy or something, and that and that in
that sense, it does feel a little bit out of
character for Elon Musk, like where where he has been
(27:55):
very very successful for a very long time crafting this
image and this, and this feels like a crack in
that image.
Speaker 5 (28:02):
So now that Elon is a politician, essentially, I ask
you Max, years from now, are we going to reflect
on this scandal and say bigger, bigger than Watergate? Well,
you know, bigger than Iran Contra. If not Watergate, I
Ran Contra.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I don't know what this means for the Trump presidency.
This could be, as Josh Green suggested last week, this
could be the thing that brings the whole edifice down,
although probably not. I mean, it's honestly at Cecilia is
as she's saying, it's like it doesn't feel it doesn't
feel as morally clear cut as some other things. Although
it definitely does seem like he's not as cool of
(28:39):
a gamer as we thought he was.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
Now Cecilia and the conversations out there that are happening
on this is must cheating or is he not? These
people that are that are jumping in and opening they
have big followings in social media? Correct? How big is
the community out there that's that's a buzz about this?
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Millions?
Speaker 5 (28:59):
Gosh?
Speaker 1 (29:00):
I mean, Elon Musk got into a fight with a
very famous video game influencer who has millions of followers.
Speaker 5 (29:05):
Oh yeah, what remind us of the name.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
His name is asmen Gold. He's a very controversial, very
famous gamer who's known for just sort of saying whatever
he thinks and feels. And what he thought and felt
was there's no way Elon Musk leveled up this account himself,
and asmen Gold said, I think he bought it, and
that led to a series of events that was really wild.
(29:28):
You know, Elon unfollowed asmen Gold and then the gamer's
account was unverified shortly after that, and then reverified not
long after. People started noticing. But it was like, what
is going on? How important is this to Elon to
seem like a top gamer.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
I've said versions of this before, but I do think
Elon Musk he has had public flaws and there have
been scandals around him, and he has stepped in it
before and said things that are offensive before. But one
thing that feels different about this moment, in particular.
Speaker 5 (30:02):
What about about the video.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
About the video game thing? Yeah, yeah, no, I'm not
getting that far.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Afield, but that, like with if he loses the gamers,
I do think that hurts his kind of popularity and
his cool and this universe of sort of young men
that has been you know up to this moment, you know, really.
Speaker 5 (30:24):
Saying, if he loses the Gamers, the Dems retake the
house in twenty I'm.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Saying, these commentators on the youtubes that we were listening
to should probably be calling the DNC right now looking
for jobs, because I think.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
They may be more than anyone in our politics. Have
his number.
Speaker 5 (30:41):
All right, Well, Cecilia Donastasio, thank you very much for
joining us, and when there are fresh developments, please come
back and tell us all about them.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Sure, thank you, Max.
Speaker 5 (30:50):
Great having you on as always. I'll see you next week.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
Great to be here, David.
Speaker 5 (31:01):
This episode was produced by Stacy Wang. Anna Masa Rakus
is our editor and Rayhan Harmanci our senior editor. The
idea for this very show also came from Rayhan Blake,
Maples Handels Engineering and Dave Purcell Factchecks. Our supervising producer
is Magnus Hendrickson. The elon Ing theme is written and
performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiura. Brendan Francis Newnham
(31:25):
is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman is the head
of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks as always to our
supporters Joel Weber and Brad Stone. I'm David Papadopoulos. If
you have a minute, rate and review our show, it'll
help other listeners find us. See you next week.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
More than half the satellites in space are owned and
controlled by one man.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Well, he's a legitimate, super genius, legitimate.
Speaker 5 (00:24):
He says.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will
be different.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
He'll vote Republican. There is a reason the US government
is so reliant on him.
Speaker 6 (00:31):
Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Anything he does, he's fascinating people.
Speaker 5 (00:48):
Welcome to Eylan Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk.
It's Tuesday, January twenty First, I'm your host, David Papadopolis.
We have a new president officially, and Elon was right
in the thick of all the pomp and circumstance. There
were plenty of fireworks on day one of the Trump administration,
including a commitment to send astronauts to Mars, but much
(01:12):
of the conversation was about a certain hand gesture that
Musk made at an inauguration rally. We're going to dive
into all of that and then talk about the other
scandal brewing out there. We have a major, major development
in the Elon video game cheating saga. To discuss Musk
(01:32):
and Trump, we have our regulars with us, Max Chafkin
and Dana Hall. Max, Dana, Hello to you.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Hey David, Hey David.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
Then Cecilia Donastasio, Bloomberg's video game reporter, will bring us
her reporting on the Musk gaming situation. But first, let's
listen to Trump himself at his inaugural address yesterday, and we.
Speaker 6 (01:56):
Will pursue our manifest Destiny into the Stars, launching American
a US or nuts to plant the stars and stripes
on the planet.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
Mars, Dana Hull. Pretty big moment there for Elon Musk.
Speaker 6 (02:12):
Oh. Yeah, going to Mars has been the animating force
of Elon Musk's life forever. And what was really notable
about what Trump said is that he didn't mention the
Moon at all. And NASA has this whole program called
Armis which is all about going to the moon, and
so the fact that he focused on Mars, it was
like this huge gift to Elon, and Elon was super
thrilled about it.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
Yeah, you know, being the avid listener of the show
I am when not hosting it. I listened to last
week's show and Dana and repeatedly in that show, you
had said again how just how damn serious he is
about going to Mars and how everything else in his
life revolves around that, and watching him react his reaction
(02:55):
was pretty funny, I would say to when Trump said
that this is to a certain degree, kind of feels
like all that matters to him.
Speaker 6 (03:04):
Well, and that's been the case forever. And I think
that the mistake that people have made is because Tesla
is a public company and SpaceX is a private one,
so many people view him through the lens of Tesla
because that's where he's a public CEO. But SpaceX is
the company that he founded. It is the driving force
of his whole life and has been forever, and like
(03:25):
everything has always been about going to space and going
to Mars and making life multiplanetary. And we have tape
of him speaking, right.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
Yeah, let's listen to more inauguration day tape. Here's Musk
in his own words, and we're going to take those
to Mars.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
I mean, can you imagine how awesome it will be
to have American astronauts plant the flag on another planet
for the first time.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
Yeah, when Dana tells us that this is all he
cares about in life. This is all he cares about
in life. That's about as excited as someone can be.
But my question for you is this amazing thing for
him that Trump kind of makes it a commitment in
his speech there in the Capitol. But how do these
things work? Like, what are the practical effects of this?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Well, so the thing Dana kind of hinted at it.
But right now there is a Moon program and the assumption,
i think before this happened really before, and there have
been some hints of this long campaign trail, the assumption
has been that, you know, this Moon program would go forward.
SpaceX it was supposed to play a part of this program,
but not the launch vehicle. Meanwhile, it has this, it
(04:47):
has this really large rocket that is essentially built on
specially what do they call it, Well, they have a
new name now it's called Starship David, but that is
what that is what Elon Musk originally called it. And again,
this is a rocket that doesn't yet have a market
really for it.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
It's so big, right like.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
That when we've talked about this the Moon, we've talked
about this, well, no, not necessarily, I'm just saying that
that's not the way that the Artomist program is designed
at the moment. So so if they cancel the Artomist
program and and throw all those funds into this into
a quick Mars mission, which is is kind of what
Trump has hinted at on the campaign trail and and
and in bringing this up without mentioning the Moon, I mean,
(05:28):
that would be a huge windfall for Elon Musk. It
wouldn't just be a fulfillment of Elon Musk's personal manifest destiny,
his personal and profound ideological desire to like get to Mars.
It would also be incredibly meaningful for SpaceX.
Speaker 5 (05:44):
You you had that prediction, uh, for our mind our
listeners man.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
That you know, SpaceX's valuation and Tesla's valuation are going
to converge. We didn't dwell on that, but that was
that was a very provocative prediction. And I think that
that if this were to really happen, yes, SpaceX would
be a lot more valuable than this today.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
Look at that brilliant I love it. Max, Danna tell
me this on this whole going to Mars thing, Ken Trump,
even with Elon Musk by his side, realistically pull this off.
In one term, I mean, I.
Speaker 6 (06:17):
Would think that most people would say no, that getting
to Mars, particularly getting humans to Mars, is going to
take much much longer. But you know, Elon is a
man in a hurry, and he always has very aggressive
timelines and he would love nothing more than to at
least try as soon as possible. And you're seeing Starship
launch over and over again, and you know each time
(06:37):
they get better at it. I mean, there are always
like snaffoos, but that's how they iterate, that's how they learn.
And SpaceX is just lightning years ahead of any competitor
in terms of having a vehicle that could potentially make
the journey.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
There's a launch window essentially every two years, so they
would have to hit I mean, to make this actually
happen within Trump's term, they would have to have a
launch I believe it's in twenty twenty six. It would
have to go well and then they and that would
allow conceivably, you know, astronauts at the very end of
Trump's term to blast off. Now again, I think Dan
(07:10):
is right, this is like super hypothetical. The whole history
of space explorations, particularly human beings in space. We don't
like to put our astronauts, our brave, these brave people
who are are sacrificing in jeopardy. So I think if
you were betting on this, it makes sense to be skeptical.
On the other hand, Dana's right, like and and Elon
(07:31):
is definitely going for it. He's definitely trying to do this.
It's it's not clear that will succeed.
Speaker 5 (07:35):
Yeah, and Trump and Musk very aligned in that way.
They're both great hype men, and so they are, you know,
simultaneously mutually hyper.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
They just just in terms to bring up one other
sort of potential stump fuck.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
Mildly so Artemis.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
The Moon program has a bunch of big American defense
contractors who are signed up making stuff for it, including
Boeing and North or so each of these The idea
to like of shutting, of turning this program off or
winding it down or something will have serious political implications
in congressional districts all across the country. They're definitely people
(08:13):
who want to think we should be going to the
moon first.
Speaker 5 (08:16):
It's been a while since we've been to the moon.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Max.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
Now, Max, you heard him say, Musk that is that
he's taking Doge to Mars. He's gonna take the entire
committee perhaps, and the cryptocurrency didn't specify to Mars set
up offices there. But Doge, you know, was in the
news on inauguration day as well. I mean Trump had
(08:41):
just been sworn in. They hadn't even stopped singing glory, glory, hallelujah.
And the lawsuit against those dropped.
Speaker 7 (08:49):
The lawsuit that several lawsuits several there are several lawsuits,
all challenging basically Doge's legality under aspects of the Constitution,
how federal law is structured.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I'm not an expert on an administrative law, but essentially
saying that these these are like extra.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Legal bodies and are not going to be allowed.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
I don't think we have a clear sense of how
significant these lawsuits are.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
Trump also sign.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
An executive order establishing DOZE, and I'm sorry to report
David that the executive order does not include any mention
of the role that DOGE will play on any non
earth bodies.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
Dana. So, DOZE has now been sued. It has scaled
back its goals a bit. It's saying, no longer is
it feasible to cut two trillion a year in government spending.
It's now down talking about maybe one trillion, which is
still a very very large number. But we do have
another development, which is that Elon is now the sole
(09:57):
leader of Doze. Vivek Ramis is out. Is that correct?
Speaker 6 (10:02):
That is correct. It's very disappointing because now we can't
use the phrase Muskaswamy, which Don moynihan had sort of pioneered.
But yet Ramaswami is going to focus on his own
political career in Ohio and has sort of you know,
stepped aside. The White House put out like a statement
about it yesterday. So you know, this whole idea of
Doge being co led, you know, has now fallen apart.
(10:24):
It's really Musk.
Speaker 5 (10:25):
Did Musk bump him out? Is that what happened?
Speaker 6 (10:28):
I mean, I don't know personally too clear, Like you know,
Doge was a Musk's idea Doge. Musk proposed the idea
of Doge to Trump when he had Trump on an
X spaces in August. I don't think he ever wanted
a co leader, and at the rally at Madison Square
Garden that Max and I were both that originally, like
(10:49):
Howard Lutnik was sort of floated as the co leader
of Doge and then he got pushed aside, and then
it was Vivek and that didn't last for very long.
So I don't think that Elon ever intended to do
this with a partner.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
My spin is their efficiencies already taking place right cut
one job.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
My sense from talking to people around Trump and is
that really Ramaswami did this to himself. You remember back
at the end of last year there Elon Musk kind
of went on this tear around h one b Visas.
Ramaswami actually chimed in kind of defending Elon Musk and
made a bunch of comments that I think, in certain
(11:29):
ways came off even worse than the than the Musk comments,
talking about essentially that that perceived as attacking American workers
and implying that American workers were sort of like not
qualified for the best jobs. It's also true that there
was this kind of inherent rivalry.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Danis hinting at it.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
You know, Ramaswami was sort of shoehorn into this thing,
and you know, it was never totally clear why, because
this was obviously a Musk idea from the beginning, and
I'd say ram Swami, I think was always kind of
aiming in this kind.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Of political trajectory.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
You know, there's been there's been talk of him potentially
running for governor, even before this of Ohio, even before
this this like latest thing with with Musk. So so
I think it feels like a bunch of factors, but
you got to say like it it is, first of all,
Elon consolidating his influence within Trump World. And and okay,
somebody's maybe been bounced out of the orbit connected to Doge,
(12:27):
but it certainly wasn't Elon Musk. Elon Musk, as we
saw from yesterday, is enjoying the same extremely high level
access that he has you know, been enjoying for for months.
Speaker 6 (12:38):
He has a White House email address now too. I
mean that that's really wild this ye.
Speaker 5 (12:43):
And the end. I know that you guys talked about
this last week with Josh, But does he have this
blue pant.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
We're seeing Yeah, we're seeing reporting now.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
ABC News reported a few hours ago as we're recording this,
that that they had that they were hearing that he
was going to have the blue badge.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
This was the badge that we talked about with Josh.
Speaker 5 (12:59):
Greg get some as allow.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Him to kind of walk into the Oval office.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
There's also been ordered diet cokes.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
There's also been suggestions in reporting, although it's not totally
clear if this is definitely true or not to me anyway,
that he would have some kind of office space in
the in the actual White House and not in addition
to offices in the Executive Office building. I mean, the
bottom line is going to have a lot of access.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
I will say.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Reading this executive order, and I read it closely because
not very longin is pretty easy. It doesn't say anything
about cutting costs. It actually just talks about sort of
upgrading the IT systems, the government software system.
Speaker 5 (13:37):
Now that's code for cutting spending.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
I don't know that exact, David.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
All of my twenty years of reporting on software, I
can tell you that software does.
Speaker 5 (13:47):
Not expense it.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
It's often a way to increase spending rather than cut it.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
Dana Hall, The day was not without controversy, though there
were several controversial things that took place. But as it
regards specifically to Elon Musk, there was a salute that
caused quite a stir. He made this gesture while giving
a speech yesterday. Tell us as best you can what
(14:12):
it looked like.
Speaker 6 (14:13):
Okay, so mus did this gesture two and a half times.
He put his right hand over his heart, and then
he gave a salute to the front of the audience.
Then he turned around and he did it a second time,
and then he put his hand over his heart yet again.
You know, if you are being generous to Elon, he
was making an awkward gesture in a time of heightened
(14:34):
excitement where he was basically trying to show the crowd
that he really loved them. To historians who study fascism,
this was like the Hitler salute or the Roman salute.
And you know, immediately, like the Internet was just wild, like,
oh my god, did Elon just do the Nazi salute.
I can't speak with any fidelity as to whether he
intended to do this or not. It made a huge sture.
(14:56):
John Stewart talked about it last night. Historians were apoplectic.
But it was also like a signal, like you saw
a lot of people on the right sort of embrace this,
like Andrew Tate and people from gab and elsewhere. So
it was sort of like, whether it was intentional or not,
it sort of sent a signal of sorts to the
dark corners of the Internet and then, interestingly, the Anti
(15:16):
Defamation League put out a tweet that was sort of
giving Musk cover, where they basically said, quote, it seems
that Elon Musk made an awkward gesture in a moment
of enthusiasm, not a Nazi salute, but again, we appreciate
that people are on edge. And then Musk of course
quoted the post and wrote thanks guys. So it was
all very It was all very weird. You know, I
(15:38):
have never seen him do that before. And I've seen
him and Max has as well. I've seen him speak
in a lot of different settings. He certainly never did
it on the campaign trail. So it was just it
was very odd.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
On that last point. This is what occurs to me. Yeah,
you're saying you've never seen Musk do it before. I
don't know that in my life, and you guys tell
me about yours that I've ever seen anyone do it
by mistake before. Is that something that like, whoops, you know,
I just I meant to do something else and that
came out.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Matt, That is what I was thinking. I mean, this
is not a thing that anyone does by mistake. Ever.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
That said, and I think this is important. We are
not as steeped in the world of far right and
white nationalism and anti semitism that Elon Musk is and like,
as we've talked about on this podcast over and over again.
Leave the Gester aside. This is somebody who has brought,
you know, Nazis and white supremacists onto his platform, who
(16:36):
has interacted with Nazis and white supremacists on his platform,
who has repeated anti Semitic conspiracy theories. And if you
have that kind of media diet's it seems to me
possible that that gestures that would be unthinkable for somebody
who did not have that media diet might come out accidentally.
(16:57):
And so I do think it's possible that this was
an accident, but it definitely you can understand why people
are troubled by it, especially in light of Musk's long,
long track record.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
In this area.
Speaker 6 (17:11):
And I just want to read another comment that was
in our story today. A historian of fascism here, wrote
Ruth ben Giah, she's a professor of history at NYU.
It was a Nazi salute and a very belluderent one too.
And I think the fact that he did it not
once but twice and then almost like a halftime is
what also really struck people.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I thought it was a deep fake when I saw it, honestly,
because I saw it and I thought this has to
be fake because from the outside that sort of looked
like now, I did not see it that the original
clip I saw was not the full clip in context
where he holds his hand to his heart. So maybe,
and I think it's like all of these things, it's
(17:49):
important that we look at them with the total picture,
and the total picture is one where we've seen Musk
embracing some of these extreme and arker and more offensive forces,
you know.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
For years now. Danna, you said that Musk had thanked
the ADL for the statement he put out. Has he
said anything else about the controversy beyond that.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
Yeah, he basically said they're gonna have to come up
with better dirty tricks. I mean, he sees this as
a smear campaign, similar to when he kind of was
tweeting out the great replacement theory stuff that we wrote
about like a year ago. He sees this as a
as a smear campaign, that he's a victim, that this
is the legacy media, you know, grasping at straws, and so, yeah,
(18:33):
he tweeted out something about that last night.
Speaker 5 (18:35):
All Right, Dana, we are going to say goodbye to
you for now. We will see you next week. Thanks.
All right now, Max, you and I after that chat,
we need to lighten the mood a little. We're gonna
we're gonna do something a little more fun.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, I mean, we got to get into this video
game cheating scandal.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
David. It's it's it's the only thing.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
That anyone was talking about while while they were watching
the inauguration.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Anyway, Clearly he's trying to do the map that's not
in the chain.
Speaker 5 (19:04):
He's just clicking a map repeatedly trying to access it.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
He was not eligible to endo that map.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I just want you as to understand this is one
of the highest level hardcore characters in the game. He
would have played thousands of maps at this point.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
He literally didn't know how to open a map just
ring bus Kazobs.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
He just ran us.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
The gazob cast arms are one of the most important currencies.
So he's playing no filter, and he didn't pick up
the kiss or he's.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Not presing his Monoplaus.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
He's not freaking Amuntoflus, He's not freasing amount Max. I'm
struggling to dig this segment super seriously after what we heard,
but Cecilia Denistasio, our video game reporter, takes it very seriously.
It's what she does for a living for us here
at Bloomberg. Cecilia, welcome to the show. What did we
(19:51):
just hear exactly? Uh, we on this show touched upon
this whole saga a little bit last week. But bring
us up to speed because there's been some deve.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Yeah, there have been some developments. So for a couple
of months now, Elon Musk has been bragging that he
is one of the top players of two very popular
video games, Diablo for and Path of Exile two. And
you know a lot of gamers have been pointing out
that Elon Musk is the CEO of six companies and
a lot of recent college graduates aren't able to reach
(20:24):
the high rungs of gamerdom that Elon Musk seems to
have himself. So what we heard in that clip was
a couple of gamers commenting over Elon Musk himself playing
the video game Path of Exile too.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
They seem to be mocking him, Cecilia.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
They are mocking him because look, I play these games,
and I was one of these people when I was
watching him play this game, like, h, he's out of mana,
please use the manifest, use the Manoflast, use the manoflask and.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
He does it, and you the same thing that they
were saying as you were watching it.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yes, because look, he's bragging about having these very high
level characters that take a lot of time to level up,
and he's playing in a way that maybe you know,
doesn't seem to indicate that he had leveled up his
character himself.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
I see.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
So wait, just to translate here, yes, translation.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
The point of this story is that Musk had basically
presented in his own telling, and I'd say, in the
telling of maybe some people close to him, that he was,
you know, a world class player in these video games.
And these Cecilia experienced gamer as well as these other
gamers that we're hearing, are basically seeing holes in that story.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
Correct, correct, Okay, now that's where we were as of
a few hours ago. But Cecilia looks like there's evidence
that Musk himself perhaps has admitted that indeed he was
cheating all along.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah, it's funny you use the word cheating because it's cheating. Well,
the video game developers say it's not kosher either, according
to their terms of service. But what Musk allegedly did
was have somebody else level up his accounts for him, which,
if you are listening to this podcast.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
So sorry, I account what's that meaning?
Speaker 5 (22:15):
Exactly? Help us out here, Max and I are idiots.
What what is leveling up?
Speaker 4 (22:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:20):
So you create a character playing one of these games
and say you want to get to the highest level
where the swaggiest gear fight the most hardcore monsters. Right,
but that takes a lot of time, hundreds or thousands
of hours. I interviewed a lot of people who offer
services to wealthy gamers who don't want to spend the
(22:41):
hundreds or thousands of hours killing little goblins and leveling
up the characters. Like, you know, if you're the CEO,
for example, six companies, maybe you don't want to be
hitting goblins.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Even just one for that matter, you know, or you know,
even if you just have normal adult responsibility.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Well that's a little condescending.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
Well correct, and Cecilia, no, you know. One of the
things I learned in your story, which is very good,
is that it is now cool, totally cool to me.
An adult gamer all along. The joke was on me then,
I guess, and I feel like I own an apology
to my son Miguel and my nephew Michael for mocking
him all these years. I'm sorry. It's cool to be
(23:21):
an adult gamer now, yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
I mean, if you are the king of the nerds
like Elon Musk, you know, wants to be and he
wants to use his like meme speak and you know,
be with it on Reddit like you know, being good
at gaming offers you a certain level of cultural cloud.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
H Okay, who knew? Now? But back to the admission,
What exactly did he say? And are we positive? Are
we positive that that admission actually came from Elon Musk? Gosh?
Speaker 1 (23:53):
I mean, it's it's really hard to say, but what
news outlets are reporting is that a very small YouTube
account had communication with Elon Musk in a direct message
on x in which this YouTuber asked, you know, hey,
did you level up these accounts yourself or did somebody
else do it for you? And Elon says, look, you know,
(24:17):
if you want to be competing with these high level
gamers in countries like Asia, you know everybody has somebody
else level up their accounts, and he indicates that he
did not do it himself, and that also he had
never represented that he had done it himself.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
I see, I'm curious. Can I ask you to a question, Yes, absolutely,
I mean.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Hearing hearing this story, like, how does this square with
the way that he's run his businesses over the last
couple of decades.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Well, okay, so one thing I want to say is,
you know, I've never covered the world of video game
cheating before chating, but I have, but I have some
experience in the in the world of sports cheating. And
this is a classic sort of non denial from Elon.
It's kind of like what Lance Armstrong has said. It's
(25:06):
what many dopers after they have been found to be
dopers say, which is basically like everyone was doing it,
there was no way to could never have won the
Tour de France without and which which is true, potentially true.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
But I just want to know it was just the
best of the cheaters.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
Not a great defense.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I think the thing that struck me about this scandal
or non scandal or whatever was that you saw a
bunch of people in Elon Musk's orbit kind of spring
up on Twitter over the last couple of days to
essentially say no, no, no, no, he really.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Was spending a lot of time playing video games.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
You didn't know how to open the what was it?
The mail?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Javon Zillis, mother of some of his children, tweeted yesterday
a year old video of Elon Musk gaming and then
saying that he played seventeen hours. It was part of
a seventeen hour push on Christmas Day.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
So God, this is getting depressing.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
So maybe that's how he fits it in. He's just
doing this on the holidays.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
Okay, So there's a good question for you, Cecilia, to
become that good, to become that guy does a periodic
seventeen hour binge on Christmas? Does that get you there?
Or are you just logging obscene amounts of hours day in,
day out, week in, week out.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
In my experience, it takes more than seventeen hours on
Christmas or an hour or two at the end of
your day running a couple of companies. But I mean, look,
he did play the video game himself when he was
live streaming to the audience, and it's not as if
he's never played a game before, like he's fine, he's
fine at these games, you know, But what was interesting
(26:48):
to people was the fact that he had represented that
he was one of the top players ever in some
of these games, which is really confusing when you go
out and livestream yourself. Right, That's the thing I don't understand.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
He exposed himself in a way that he didn't he
didn't really need to show.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I mean, look, this is a guy who is very
who has been very successful kind of creating an image
of himself, an image of himself as a larger than
life figure, as a guy who can simultaneously design a
car and a rocket and be awesome at video games.
And I don't know, he's obviously pretty stretched at this
point between the companies and between his political activities and
(27:32):
and also perhaps not spending as not not being quite
as precise in his personal branding as he used to
as we just as we just saw talking about this
this gesture, and it just it just it feels I
don't know, sloppy or something, and that and that in
that sense, it does feel a little bit out of
character for Elon Musk, like where where he has been
(27:55):
very very successful for a very long time crafting this
image and this, and this feels like a crack in
that image.
Speaker 5 (28:02):
So now that Elon is a politician, essentially, I ask
you Max, years from now, are we going to reflect
on this scandal and say bigger, bigger than Watergate? Well,
you know, bigger than Iran Contra. If not Watergate, I
Ran Contra.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I don't know what this means for the Trump presidency.
This could be, as Josh Green suggested last week, this
could be the thing that brings the whole edifice down,
although probably not. I mean, it's honestly at Cecilia is
as she's saying, it's like it doesn't feel it doesn't
feel as morally clear cut as some other things. Although
it definitely does seem like he's not as cool of
(28:39):
a gamer as we thought he was.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
Now Cecilia and the conversations out there that are happening
on this is must cheating or is he not? These
people that are that are jumping in and opening they
have big followings in social media? Correct? How big is
the community out there that's that's a buzz about this?
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Millions?
Speaker 5 (28:59):
Gosh?
Speaker 1 (29:00):
I mean, Elon Musk got into a fight with a
very famous video game influencer who has millions of followers.
Speaker 5 (29:05):
Oh yeah, what remind us of the name.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
His name is asmen Gold. He's a very controversial, very
famous gamer who's known for just sort of saying whatever
he thinks and feels. And what he thought and felt
was there's no way Elon Musk leveled up this account himself,
and asmen Gold said, I think he bought it, and
that led to a series of events that was really wild.
(29:28):
You know, Elon unfollowed asmen Gold and then the gamer's
account was unverified shortly after that, and then reverified not
long after. People started noticing. But it was like, what
is going on? How important is this to Elon to
seem like a top gamer.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
I've said versions of this before, but I do think
Elon Musk he has had public flaws and there have
been scandals around him, and he has stepped in it
before and said things that are offensive before. But one
thing that feels different about this moment, in particular.
Speaker 5 (30:02):
What about about the video.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
About the video game thing? Yeah, yeah, no, I'm not
getting that far.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Afield, but that, like with if he loses the gamers,
I do think that hurts his kind of popularity and
his cool and this universe of sort of young men
that has been you know up to this moment, you know, really.
Speaker 5 (30:24):
Saying, if he loses the Gamers, the Dems retake the
house in twenty I'm.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Saying, these commentators on the youtubes that we were listening
to should probably be calling the DNC right now looking
for jobs, because I think.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
They may be more than anyone in our politics. Have
his number.
Speaker 5 (30:41):
All right, Well, Cecilia Donastasio, thank you very much for
joining us, and when there are fresh developments, please come
back and tell us all about them.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Sure, thank you, Max.
Speaker 5 (30:50):
Great having you on as always. I'll see you next week.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
Great to be here, David.
Speaker 5 (31:01):
This episode was produced by Stacy Wang. Anna Masa Rakus
is our editor and Rayhan Harmanci our senior editor. The
idea for this very show also came from Rayhan Blake,
Maples Handels Engineering and Dave Purcell Factchecks. Our supervising producer
is Magnus Hendrickson. The elon Ing theme is written and
performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiura. Brendan Francis Newnham
(31:25):
is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman is the head
of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks as always to our
supporters Joel Weber and Brad Stone. I'm David Papadopoulos. If
you have a minute, rate and review our show, it'll
help other listeners find us. See you next week.
Host
David Papadopoulos
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