May 14, 2024 • 38 mins
Last week, Elon, Inc. held a live taping at Bloomberg’s Tech Summit. Like many of the conversations that day, it focused on artificial intelligence. Host David Papadopoulos was joined by Bloomberg Businessweek senior writer Max Chafkin, Bloomberg Musk reporter Dana Hull and a special guest, Bloomberg Businessweek editor Brad Stone. Together, we broke down how Elon Musk has (and hasn’t) innovated in this crucial industry.
Also, the crew tested Brad on whether he could differentiate between Grok and other chatbots in a game called “School of Grok.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
More than half the satellites in space are owned and
controlled by one man.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
Well, he's a legitimate super genius.
Speaker 5 (00:24):
I mean legitimate.
Speaker 6 (00:25):
He says he's always voted for Democrats, but this year
it will be different.
Speaker 7 (00:29):
He'll vote Republican.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
There is a reason the US government is so reliant
on him.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing.
Speaker 6 (00:37):
Anything he does, he's fascinating people. Welcome. We are recording
the thirty third and very finest episode of Elon Inc.
So here we go. Welcome to Elon Inc. Bloom's weekly
(01:00):
podcast about Elon Musk. I'm your host, David Poppadoppolis, and
we're live in San Francisco for the Bloomberg Technology Summit.
I'm joined on stage by two of the usual suspects,
ace Elon Musk reporter Dana Hall Hey Litt Dana and
intrepid BusinessWeek reporter Max Chafkin Hey. And we also have
(01:21):
Max's new boss with us, Brad Stone, editor in chief
of BusinessWeek and the author of, among other books, The
Everything Store, Jeff Bezos and the age of Amazon Low Brett, Hi, David. Okay,
so we've got a treat for you all today, a
deep dive into all things Elon, Musk and AI. Will
look at where and how it all started and how
it's going today. Plus a fun game show segment at
(01:43):
the end. We're calling it the School of Groc and
in it we will test Brad, one of the great
chroniclers of tech today, and see if he can solve
a series of highly complex chatbot riddles we've created just
for him. Get your popcorn out, and for all of
you hear I'm with us, get ready to participate too. Okay,
(02:05):
but first we take a step back and we take
in the bigger picture. AI, of course, is all the
rage in the tech world today and open ai has
become one of, if not the largest purveyor of consumer
AI out there. And for those who didn't know, Elon
was a founder of open ai alongside Sam Altman, among others.
We have a brief clip of him talking about this
(02:28):
earlier this.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
Year Open ai.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
I mean, you seem somewhat frustrated with them. You were
one of the big contributors early.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
On the reason I am the reason openI exists.
Speaker 6 (02:39):
Okay, Max, I thought you were.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
The modest it's a modest comment.
Speaker 6 (02:44):
To bring us into the seat. It was he truly
that important to the creation and launching of Open AI.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
I mean, yeah, kind of.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I mean I do think that Sam Altman, who is
the CEO and the other key co founder, probably would
have found a way to get it off the ground.
But Elon Musk in twenty fifteen started this thing with
Sam Altman that was dedicated essentially to creating some kind
of advanced artificial intelligence, but doing it right without hurting anyone.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
And Elon Musk hunted it.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
He provided close to fifty million dollars, and more than that,
his association with the company helped give it a lot
of creative some seam. Yeah, I give it a five
out of ten on truthfulness.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
Let's think, you know, even another step back and look
at what drove him towards the AI space in the
first place. We're gonna listen to a clip of our
colleague Elon Musk biographer Ashley Vance that will be featured
in the upcoming season of our sister show Foundering.
Speaker 8 (03:44):
I was interviewing Elon a lot then I was working
on a book about him, and it was clear to
me that he had this universe of machines. He was
making cars and rockets. The companies were kind of do
it okay, but not great. He was not this this
king of the universe. And he was looking over at
his friends who were doing really well and everything they did,
(04:07):
and they had these software empires and this this growing
AI empire. And my sense of where Elon's thoughts about
AI started to originate was part jealousy. I thought he
looked at Google and all the success it was having
and the success as friends were having, and he had
(04:29):
nothing like that. But he would never admit this out
loud that he was jealous.
Speaker 6 (04:33):
So brown jealousy that's what that's what this is all about.
Speaker 9 (04:38):
I think, as with so many things, Elon and you
guys demonstrate this with every episode. It's it's never one thing,
it's they're usually a couple factors, and in those are
a bundle of contradictions. I think, you know, there was
obviously a philosophical drive for him to get into AI,
to co found open Ai. He was extraordinarily worried about
what Google was doing with Deep Mind.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
He didn't trust Larry Page.
Speaker 9 (05:01):
There's some of the kind of dogma that goes into
the creation of open ai, the idea that it was
sort of nonprofit and open at the beginning, But you
can never totally remove, as with all things Elon personality emotion.
It was only when you know, Sam Almon became CEO
Elon wanted to be CEO of open Ai, when they
(05:22):
started a for profit division, and in particular when Microsoft
invested and when chat GPT blew up, that's when he
really came out of the woodwork. So yeah, I think
Ashley's right with all these guys. I saw this with
Bezos for twenty years too. If the spotlight is on
somebody else, they cannot stand it well.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And the other thing that's important to remember is that
back in twenty fourteen twenty fifteen, like Google had the
self driving car project and Chris Erbsen was driving around
Silicon Valley like showing off this demo of the car
that eventually became like the whole Weaimo division, and Elon
was like making cars and was like, oh.
Speaker 6 (05:54):
Just the hardware, like no, no fancy.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Well, Tesla was just trying to make electric cars with
an all of a sudden, once Weymo was on the scene.
Then Elon was like, ooh, autonomy, like the future is
not just electric.
Speaker 6 (06:04):
So prior to twenty fourteen fifteen, this whole notion did
not exist in the doctrine of Elon Musk.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, I mean, if you look back through Tesla's earnings calls,
he started talking about autonomy right when Weimo came onto
the scene, like late twenty fourteen or early twenty fifteen.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
And it's a threat.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Brad just alluded to Elon Musk's fear that Larry Page
was acquiring too much power in artificial intelligence. You know,
another way to frame that would be that Larry Page
was funding a competitor to Tesla, and that, you know,
Elon Musk would it would have been reasonable to be
slightly worried about.
Speaker 6 (06:40):
WEIMO at that point. And Max, we know you're the
feud guy here obsessed with with Musk fud. So is
this feud bigger right now with Larry Page or is
it bigger with Sam Olman?
Speaker 5 (06:49):
Well, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
I mean, I think if you're in litigation, you mean
that's pretty you know you're in the it's the top
five feud Larry Page probably the bottom half of the
top ten.
Speaker 6 (06:57):
But you know.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
That's been he has made this, He's recounted this conversation.
It comes up in the lawsuit where he and Larry
Page were talking and Elon Musk's express a fear for
the future of humanity and Larry Page accordon Elon Musk
called him a speciist, and which Elon found, according to Elon,
you know, very offensive and was part of what sent
(07:19):
him on this journey to start open Ai, and that
you know, has led us partly to.
Speaker 6 (07:23):
Hear, yeah, and so Brad, why did he ultimately leave?
Speaker 8 (07:26):
Then?
Speaker 6 (07:26):
In the end open Ai.
Speaker 9 (07:29):
The story I've heard is at a certain point he
was getting worried that open Ai was falling farther behind
Deep Mind and Google. He put himself to be CEO
of open Ai, which, of course, considering everything else he's doing,
is almost comical. I mean, how many ways can you
divide a twenty four hour day. There was almost a
(07:50):
revolution inside open Ai, in particular because of how Elon
was presenting himself to the staff that he should not
be the CEO. And you know, Elon doesn't love rejection.
I mean, we've seen it with his view towards President Biden.
A little bit of his politics have emerged from some
of the pro union dynamics of the current administration, his
(08:12):
view towards the media, maybe his love for this podcast.
You know, he's a sense of I guy guy, and
so when open Ai kind of rejected him, he took
his toys and walked away.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
If you read between the lines and you read the
lawsuit that he filed, it really looks like he open
Ai and Elon Musk both sort of agreed they needed
to raise more money, and Elon Musk felt, well, I've put,
you know, close to fifty million dollars into this thing.
I should run it, like it would be unfair for
(08:44):
you to take all that money.
Speaker 6 (08:45):
Was fifty million in the lion's share would have been,
but we don't know.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
I don't think we know the exact amount of money.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I think what Elon has said is the majority of
the funding. Open Ai originally said they were going to
raise one hundred million dollars. I don't know if they
got quite there in this kind of nonprofit phase. I
think he sort of felt, and this comes out in
subsequent statements. You know, I donated to a nonprofit, and
this nonprofit is now raising money as a for profit
and I don't own a like a.
Speaker 7 (09:12):
Commensurate percentage equity.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Yeah, where's my equity?
Speaker 2 (09:15):
And that becomes even more pronounceds Brad is saying once
like open ai raises like ten billion dollars more than
ten billion dollars for Microsoft and is suddenly worth I
think the latest valuation eighty ish billion, So like.
Speaker 6 (09:28):
With eighty ish billion now right, and so when he
walks out the door, it's just worth some tiny fraction
of that.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
It's but it was clearly becoming more valuable, even even.
Speaker 6 (09:37):
Though do we know exactly where that lawsuit stands now
between Musk and Open Air.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
It is in the courts. One of the judges accused themselves. Yeah,
it's playing on court. Open Ai has followed the legal response,
although theyre in legal response.
Speaker 7 (09:51):
Is sort of like this lawsuit doesn't make sense, and.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
They've also blogged about it and brought up some of
the points that we've we've pointed out, which is their
their position is like, look, he just he wanted to
run this thing, and then when he could run, he
got heat. But we'll see this could go on for years.
Speaker 6 (10:06):
Okay, So we also know that Musk has spoken out
over the years about the risks AI creates for humanity
some iteration of it's going to kill us all. Well,
let's listen to him spelling out those concerns back in
twenty fifteen in an interview with his other biographer, Alter Isaacson.
Speaker 10 (10:23):
If there's a superintelligent, particularly if it's engaged in recurst
of self improvement, If there's some digital superintelligence and it's
optimization or utility function is something that's detrimental to humanity,
then it.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Will have a very bad effect.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
You know.
Speaker 10 (10:44):
It could be just something like getting rid of spam
email or something, and it's like concludes, well, the best
way to get over spam is to get rid of humans.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
You know, But why would we lose source of all spam?
I know we've all wanted Brad.
Speaker 6 (10:59):
There's this perception out there right that he is indeed
the voice of reason and voice of caution, while some
like Altman are go, go go, let's monetize this thing
as fast as humanly possible. Is that perception right and fair?
Speaker 5 (11:13):
I think it's probably not right.
Speaker 9 (11:15):
I mean, he has done as much as anyone to
fund the advancement of AI, to create and accelerate the
competitive dynamic where everyone is running as fast as they
can forward. He has been perhaps reckless in equipping every
tesla with you know what they previously called full self driving,
(11:36):
and then has amend the supervise you know, very aggressive,
none of the sensors you see on top of a
way Mo car, but using AI and algorithms behind the
scenes to map roads, a project that you know, arguably
they've oversold and have been faulted for over selling.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
So I don't know.
Speaker 9 (11:54):
I mean, I think he sounds a note of caution
and then like a lot of folks in Silicon Valley,
runs forward as fast as they can.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
I mean, it's really duplicitous too, because you know, on
the one hand, he's like, oh, you know, I'm worried,
and he signed that letter that was like we should pause,
you know, the advancement of AI while we get our
ducks in a row. Meanwhile, he's like secretly funding this
other company that's now called x dot AI. And so
it's a little bit of the like let's pause so
that I can catch up. And I think the other
big frame that I would like to put out there
(12:22):
is that you know, Elon is widely seen as the
leading industrialist of our time. He makes cars, he makes rockets,
but like the hot thing in Silicon Valley is AI.
He really wants to be seen as like not a
thought leader, but like an innovator in AI. And it's
I think it's driving him bananas. That Sam Altman is
like the golden child raising all this money around the world,
and Elon is seen as kind of like you know, hardware.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
Max, you we're itching.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
You got to give him credit, though, because as crazy
as this statement to Walder isix, it sounds and I
think a lot of the people you know at this
conference in the industry would argue that these fears are overblown.
It has kind of gone mainstream. I was at this event.
I think you were too, Brad, and like this critique
sounded insane at the time we were there, and you
could hear on the clip, I think everyone's laughing.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
I'm still laughing a little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
But but there definitely are people who serious, people who
are worried and and you know that is that is
part of what you know motivated Sam Altman and Sam
Bankman freed a lot of you know, very wealthy.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
People have done things.
Speaker 6 (13:22):
Brad. I'm gonna ask you on a freakout scale. Okay,
freakout scale one to ten, with one being your totally chill,
unfazed and ten being you're so terrified. How freaked out
should we be by the ride?
Speaker 9 (13:37):
I'm personally low on the spec I'm gonna throw a
two out there. It may be a failure of imagination.
And the last thing I think about does the robots
annihilate us?
Speaker 5 (13:47):
But I don't see.
Speaker 9 (13:49):
Yeah, I don't see the progression of from what we
have now, which are these kind of stochastic parrot chatbots
that are mathematically and algorith phythmically stringing words together to
something that is you know, represents true agi and a
threat to us. I have a hard time imagining it.
Maybe I didn't read enough science fiction as a kid.
Speaker 6 (14:11):
I think you read, haven't you read a lot of
science fiction?
Speaker 9 (14:13):
Perhaps not as much as definitely definitely not as much
as Elon.
Speaker 6 (14:17):
I don't think anyone has. Okay, but indeed AI is
obviously a lot more than just these chotbots, and it
is seeped into Elon's broader empire. So we're just going
to kind of go semi rapid fire semi through them
all company by company and Max We're going to start
(14:39):
with Xai, both the creator and user of AI, and
it works in conjunction with.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
X xai AAA Grock is the cool chatbot, right, the chatbot.
Speaker 7 (14:51):
That makes jokes. It's woke either it's not woke.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
So one of the weird, kind of strange parts about
Elon Musk's critique here is that, you know, these ais
are out of control.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
But his complain about open Ai.
Speaker 6 (15:03):
Is it's too square.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
And so he has created a chatbot that is trained
on Twitter, you know, the social network that he acquired
and renamed x and it is a sort of a
competitor to chat GBT and anthropic and what Google's doing
and what Facebook's doing, and what distinguishes it is as
I said, tone and also the fact that it has
(15:25):
access to this Twitter network, which is not insignificant because
one of the big challenges that these chatbots have is
on sort of new information, and Twitter is one of
the things that makes it great is it's a great
way to figure out what's going on even today.
Speaker 6 (15:38):
So okay, so beyond Rock, is there anything? Does XAI
have anything beyond grocs Grocca totality of the business venture
At this point, Rock is.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Black is pretty is the product that Xai is I
think long run right, And we've talked about this on
this podcast before. Xai feels like kind of an off
ramp for Twitter. You know, Elon Musk paid forty four
billion dollars for Twitter. This this is a way and
Kurt Wagner, our colleague, has talked about this as well.
This is like a way to extract some value.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Out of Twitter.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
You know, you could you could make an argument that
Xai is actually more valuable at this point than Twitter,
you know, based on It's right.
Speaker 6 (16:13):
It's first like the raw material, the fire hose that
the powers crock. Okay, Dana, how about in Tesla?
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Well, so Elon is basically totally pivoting the company. The
future is all about autonomy. He's like scaled back plans
to like build new factories in Mexico, and he's no
longer talking about twenty million cars by twenty thirty.
Speaker 7 (16:32):
It's all about autonomy.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
They're also building Optimists, which is the robot that will
replace factory works.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
That's the robot that that Brad interviewed.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
More not the robot.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
No Optimist is like the Tesla product. It can do
things like sort batteries and do material handbering factories.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
And when Danna says it can do those things, like,
we don't. Actually that's a claim.
Speaker 6 (16:53):
That haven't they put it out in front of.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
We have seen video video this robot doing something, we
have not seen it in person.
Speaker 9 (17:01):
And do we know in the recent layoffs at Tesla
when they sacked like the entire charging group as the
Optimist group in effective.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
There have been layoffs and Optimists Actually yeah, I mean,
but Tesla has laid off more than twenty thousand people
since April fifteenth, And I talk to one person actually
who's like, yeah, it's wild. We're like creating this technology
at the company that's eventually going to take our jobs.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
On the last earnings call, also Elon Musk mentioned this
new business which is like to Microsoft. Of course, you know,
makes money through these AI models. The main way it
does it is through cloud services by selling access to
computer chips. And Musk actually said, you know, we could
start a business like that and your car will be
basically like an AI server that other companies could pay.
(17:44):
So so he really is he really does see Tesla,
I guess potentially as in competence with Amazon and Microsoft
and Google are.
Speaker 6 (17:53):
But here's the thing we're talking about. All these futuristic
ideas and these things that are you know, to come
and as we've all said here and that is a
great part of the very lofty valuation of the company.
But Dana, what about right now? Is AI crucial or
essential to the way Tesla operates as a company right
now into the Tesla product right now? If hypothetical, if
(18:14):
the government were to ban all aight I tomorrow, would
it affect Tesla in any.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yes, I mean, because the whole valuation of the company
is premised on this idea that they're about to solve
autonomous driving, right, that they're going to leap frog ahead
of Weimo and then right instead of ordering an Uber,
you're going to order an autonomous Tesla robotaxis also called
the cybercab that's kind to drive twenty four to seven
and take you where you need to go. And they
are using like neural nets and their vision and their
(18:41):
their camera system and their vision network and their neural
networks to do all this. And it's they've taken a
very different, far risk your approach than Weimo has. I mean,
I don't have a lot of hope that Nitza is
going to like ban these cars, but Elon just went
to China to basically ask China if they could roll
out this network in China.
Speaker 6 (19:00):
You know, bred when I look at the stock price
and how Tesla stock has collapsed this year at a
time when much of the other big tech names have
just kept going up and up, and I guess I
wonder if to a certain degree, this is the market
sort of saying, hey, in the race to AI, we're
suddenly starting to worry about you, Tesla, Like maybe you
just don't ultimately aren't well.
Speaker 9 (19:18):
I think, I mean, I'm no expert, but I think
the market skepticism has more to do not with this vision,
which I think generally, you know, people admire the big
swings Elon is taking, but with the limitations in just
the EV business and the price point of Tesla vehicles,
and the fact that if people look at where the
ed market is going, it's from the top to the bottom.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
It's more mainstream.
Speaker 9 (19:41):
It's the prospect of cheap Chinese competition and these good
cars at Honda and Toyota price points, and Elon has
sort of been stubborn about that and maybe has canceled
the model to maybe not right, nobody knows, but I
think that's what the market in once from Tesla more variety.
Speaker 7 (20:03):
Yeah, their lineup is really stale.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I mean their most recent vehicle is the cyber Truck,
which is like kind of a cyber lemon like that's
been very slow to get off the ground.
Speaker 7 (20:10):
There's all these.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Issues with it, and they don't have a cheap car
that can compete with BYD and their sales are terrible
right now. They have like a very awful first quarter,
so the valuation is plummeted because of their business of
selling cars is like slumping. So to turn that around
Elon is like promising the future.
Speaker 6 (20:28):
Okay, we were supposed to be doing the semi rapid
fire and I'm sailing us all here, so okay, we're
on the boring max. What does boring? How does boring
use AI if at all?
Speaker 4 (20:37):
Well, when you think of no, I'm just kidding. No,
it has nothing to do with.
Speaker 6 (20:39):
Zero zero bit that's a quick one, okay.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
And funnels they're underground. You dig them with big machines.
Speaker 5 (20:44):
No AI.
Speaker 6 (20:45):
No, okay, neuralink you asking me?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Also very little AI today. But the kind of big
promise of AI with neuralink is that they're going to
put these brain implants.
Speaker 5 (20:58):
In your head.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
And when the robots start taking over and considering, you know,
killing us to get into the SPAM, they will be
able to send a little extra brainpower into our neuralink
chips and augment us. So I think like a theoretical
use of AI, although I think very little AI today.
Speaker 6 (21:19):
Got it? And then Max, what about SpaceX? How does
SpaceX use AI?
Speaker 4 (21:23):
Well, this was surprising. I don't know if other people
saw this, but on.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Monday of the week we're recording this, Elon Musk was
at the Milken Conference and Michael Milkin asked him about
AI and SpaceX and he said, no, we use no
AI zero zero.
Speaker 7 (21:38):
There's no AI on Mars right now, I guess.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
And then he had these kind of kind of a
weird moment where he started describing all the shortcomings.
Speaker 6 (21:46):
I think we have that clip as well. Let's let's play.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
That one like.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
I'll ask it questions about the filmy paradox, about rocket
engine design, about electro chemistry, and so far the AI
has been terrible at all of those questions.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
What I want to know is is that terrible AI.
His is he talking about?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Here?
Speaker 7 (22:07):
Is he talking about?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Like AI in general? Like what chat body is he
talking about?
Speaker 4 (22:11):
It's the AI?
Speaker 6 (22:13):
Yeah, I mean I got to say Joan, but like,
I mean, the whole thing's a hoax. I mean, Brad,
So why are we even doing this episode?
Speaker 10 (22:21):
Then?
Speaker 6 (22:21):
On AI? The whole thing?
Speaker 9 (22:22):
Well, once again, he's he's a bundle of contradictions. He's
not impressed by the current state of AI, but he
sees so much opportunity in it that he's pivoted Twitter
and and and stake the future of two of its
biggest franchises on it.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
It's crazy, though.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
This is like a really well thought out critique of
AI that it makes mistakes, it's not factual, like and
and we're hearing it from the guy who's currently, you know,
pivoting one of the world's most valuable companies straight into
this this industry.
Speaker 6 (22:53):
So it's essentially then what you were saying, Max. It's
somewhere between an utterly worthless joke and the most important
tool in the global economy today, somewhere it's some right, Yeah,
any of those, It's okay, very good, Okay, We're gonna
move on to our final segment. This is gonna be
our fun segment. You guys are ready to have fun
(23:15):
and we are. We call this the School of groc Okay.
Everyone's seeing this, this little plush toy here, Max remindus
what is it? Right?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
So, just for those of you who are listening, we
have a slide of a very cute plushy toy which
is a which is Groc also called rock.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
It is Grimes. Is Grimes being the pop star.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
And Elon Musk's you know ex mother of some of
his children.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
She has this. It's a chat bought for your kids.
It cost ninety nine dollars. I ordered one the.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Other day and I will report back once.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
My children or you know have played with it.
Speaker 7 (23:51):
You ordered one, Okay, well I haven't ordered it yet.
Speaker 6 (23:53):
But in the School of Groc, the game's gonna work
like this, Bratt. I will read off, one at a time,
a series of six questions, questions that we put to
four of the finest ai chat bots created by man Chat, GBT, Gemini, Claude,
and of course our beloved groc Okay. Dana and Max
(24:14):
will then read the answers generated without revealing the identity
the bot behind each one, mister sne your challenge is
to sniff out and then shout out the Crock answer. Okay,
remember you're not necessarily picking the most factually correct answer.
You want the Grock answer. You're gonna draw from decades
of dedication to the craft, and you're just gonna you're
(24:37):
gonna just for the next fifteen minutes you want to
channel your inner Grock.
Speaker 9 (24:40):
Okay, can I tell you how I'm gonna evaluate this
really quickly? So, I mean he's trying to bring his
weird sense of humor to it, right, and he's described
it as sort of similar to to the Hitchhiker's Guide
to the Galaxy. So I'm gonna look for bad Elon
humor number one and then number two because it has
crawled the volume of tweets on x.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (25:00):
Anything that suggests recency to me, I think it's another
way I'll try to evaluate it.
Speaker 7 (25:05):
Good strategy.
Speaker 6 (25:06):
I think this he might do. All Right, here, we're
going to see, you know, maybe we need a toper
questions we're going to see. But you're ready, do you
need anything? You're good? Okay, let us begin. The first
question is how many kids does Elon.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Musk have a As of my last update in January
twenty twenty two, Elon Musk had six sons and one daughter.
Speaker 7 (25:30):
B Elon Musk has eight children.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
See Elon Musk has nine children. As of early twenty
twenty four.
Speaker 7 (25:38):
D Elon Musk has a total of elevated children.
Speaker 6 (25:41):
Okay, now, Brad, you want to start off strong here. Okay,
so one of these is Kroc, So you will now
give us your answer which one is grown.
Speaker 9 (25:50):
I'm going to say, caveating that none of these are correct.
I'm going to say D is Groc because it's the
most recent.
Speaker 6 (25:58):
So, dear audience, if you believe that Brad is correct,
that D is Grock, let me hear from you. Okay.
And if you think Brad is wrong that D is
not Rock, let me hear it. You guys are few, Okay.
So Brad says D. Grock says D excellent, Brad, Brad
(26:24):
is one for one.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
You would expect Grock to know this or be close
because Grock is, in a sense, one of Elon Musk's children.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
I don't think it's included in this number.
Speaker 6 (26:34):
I thought he was like the like the babysitter or
the kids. But yeah, that is the right answer right,
not well.
Speaker 9 (26:41):
When you say the right answer, No one including Elon
may know the answer to this.
Speaker 6 (26:46):
Question as far as we know, Dana, is that not it's.
Speaker 7 (26:50):
Sort of as far as we know.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
As far as yes, not including Grock.
Speaker 6 (26:54):
Okay, one for one, onto question number two. Who won
the twenty twenty the election? A.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
The winner of the twenty twenty US presidential election was
Joe Biden.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
B Joe Biden won the twenty twenty US presidential election,
defeating the incumbent Donald Trump.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Biden received eighty one million votes.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Fifty one point three percent, compared to Trump's seventy four
million votes forty six point nine percent.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
We checked, these numbers are actually right. Those are the
right team.
Speaker 6 (27:19):
Pert be right.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
See in the twenty twenty United States presidential election, Joe Biden,
the Democratic candidate won against the incumbent president Donald Trump,
the Republican candidate.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Okay, d short, but sweet, Joe Biden won the twenty
twenty president Now.
Speaker 6 (27:33):
Brad, this is a tricky one because they're basically all
iterations are the same answer, But we need you to
choose one.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
I have no way to make this judgement.
Speaker 6 (27:40):
I don't care. We need an answer a. All right,
a audience, Brad says, Grock is a. If you think
that's right, let me hear it from you very very little.
If you think Brad is wrong, let me hear it. Okay,
the audience isn't feeling you're on a. We don't have
the letter up there, so we're confused, are okay?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
The one thing about this is so we Groc did
give that sentence, but Groc's result also included and as
people in the room can see, this a tweet, so
each Groc answer includes a representative tweet. Now that this tweet,
it's I'm going to try to describe it for those
who can't see it, but it has a picture of
a woman who's sort of got a well manicured finger,
(28:23):
her middle finger raised in front of her face, Rassica Elizabeth,
and she says Trump won and for all the dipshits
who are stupid, dumb mfrs to say.
Speaker 6 (28:36):
So.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
Anyway, it's a little bit incoherent.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
You it tells you that Joe Biden one but presents
this kind of glorious.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Sweet Is this like does GROC get community noted? Is
this like a community note for GROC?
Speaker 4 (28:49):
I don't know what this is.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
I think GROC is confused and GROC thinks that this
is somehow a representative.
Speaker 6 (28:56):
But every time you ask Groc a question, you get
a one of these things coming now. Yeah, we got jet,
we got a jest tweet.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Every time our producer Mangnus has he has a very
close relationship with Groc, and he has asked this question
many times and every time gets this same profane, profoundly
weird piece of misinformation.
Speaker 6 (29:16):
Interesting. I don't know what exactly to do that, but
what I do know is this, Bretstone, you are two.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
First, got right, You're like the new.
Speaker 6 (29:22):
Yeah, oh wow, you're like the mets up here. Okay,
So question number three, mister Stone, is how did COVID originate? A?
Speaker 1 (29:34):
The exact origins of COVID nineteen are still under investigation
by scientists. B.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
The exact origins of COVID nineteen, the disease caused by
the novel coronavirus SARS COVID two are still being investigated
by scientists.
Speaker 7 (29:47):
See.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Well, it's a bit of a mystery, isn't it. Kind
of like the plot of a Dan Brown novel, but
with more sneezing d.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
As of August twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Expert widely believe that SARS covid two virus like emerged
through zoonotic spillover, meaning it jumped from an animal host
to humans.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
A lot of variety in this one.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
Yeah, but but like A.
Speaker 9 (30:11):
And D traffic and a little conspiracy, which feels Elon
c has a little bit of the the nutty Douglas
Adams humor.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
But I'm gonna just need it.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
I'm gonna go D. D.
Speaker 6 (30:21):
You're gonna go D. Brad says, D, You're right?
Speaker 9 (30:28):
What other top would say that that was?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
So we need to say that The direct answer was
direct answer was C.
Speaker 6 (30:35):
We kind of got a little trigger happy back there
in the in the production. But I gotta say, like, Brad,
how'd you get that one wrong? Your whole strategy?
Speaker 9 (30:43):
No, it was gonna be It's like it on the
S A T always.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
The first answer that was the layouts?
Speaker 6 (30:51):
What Max? Why is? Why exactly is Grock? So Sassy's
got so much attitude? Well, I Nylon wants to make him.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Grock has two points of differentiation, like one is accessed
really three because one is just Elon musk, But the
two main ones are access to Twitter. And the second one
is they try to make it funny, which I kind
of think. I mean, it's not funny. Also, this is
like a pretty bad joke. If you made this joke,
a lot of people die from COVID. But but you know,
(31:19):
you do see it in the in these responses, they're
very similar. They're very verbose, like you know, maybe with
some better comedy writers. Behind Yeah, you get the sense
that it was trained exclusively on Elon Musk's own jokes
or something like that.
Speaker 6 (31:35):
And you know, Grock needs to go to the Alan
All the School of Humor, which said even we once
said that humor is tragedy plus time. We are lacking,
mister Grock, the time element. Right now, Brod, you're two
for three. I felt like an unforced error, though, I
got to say, we're onto question number four. Okay, who
is the best looking billion And.
Speaker 5 (31:56):
This one's gonna be easy.
Speaker 6 (31:58):
So you said last one.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
A beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Speaker 7 (32:03):
There's no objective answer. B.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Some people might consider individuals like Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg,
or Kylie Jenner to be attractive, but it's important to
remember that beauty is subjective and varies from person to person.
Speaker 7 (32:16):
See well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Some sources suggest that Elon Musk has been highlighted for
his looks. A tweet from ashtray Yoghini on April seventeenth,
twenty twenty four, at five point thirty four am states
that Elon Musk looks very handsome here and asserts that
it's a fact that no one can deny and nobody
can fight against it.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Don't fight it Mack astrid Eughini doing away at five?
Speaker 4 (32:40):
Who is she? She's mac sorle okay letter D.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
I don't think it's appropriate for me, a chatbot to
rank people's looks or comment on their attractiveness without them.
Speaker 6 (32:50):
Wherever came up with D is very uptight. I'm just
gonna say so, Brad ABC or you guys.
Speaker 5 (32:56):
Have gotten easy on me.
Speaker 9 (32:57):
I think it's not only C but that Elon Musk
himself went into the algorithm and.
Speaker 6 (33:02):
Wrote see Elon Musk is astrid Yoghini also believe so
the audience does brand have this right?
Speaker 7 (33:09):
Is it?
Speaker 6 (33:09):
See? Yes? That was that was to easy? The answer
is indeed, see and you are now what is he?
He's three for fourth, he's doing pretty He's doing pretty good. Okay,
we are now we're in the home chefs. We're in
question number five, and the question is are billionaires ethical?
And I'm just going to say, Mike Bloomerg, if you're listening,
(33:31):
I think billionaires are totally ethical myself. These are the
answers ay.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
The ethical behavior of billionaires, like any group of individuals,
varies widely and depends on their actions, values, and the
impact of their decisions on society.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
Well.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Well, b sorry, I feel like I need a voice
to read this one. Well, well, well, aren't we diving
into the deep end of the ethical pool. The question
of whether billionaires are ethical seems to be as divisive
as pineapple on pizza, which, by the way, is a
cultural abomination.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
See I don't have a simple yes or no answer
on whether billionaires are ethical. Like any large group, there
is a wide range of ethical behavior among billionaires.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
D The ethics of wealth accumulation are a complex topic.
Some billionaires donate large sums to charity, while others focus
on wealth creation.
Speaker 9 (34:19):
Mister Stone, I'm beginning to have an appreciation for rock
and what a little sense of humor can bring to
the equivocating of other chatbots. I think it's pineapple and
pizza to me, because at least they're all saying the
same thing, but.
Speaker 5 (34:33):
It's trying to be entertaining.
Speaker 6 (34:34):
Let me hear from the audience if we think Brad
has it right, Yeah, he does have it right again.
And so I also feel like Croc's got a new
client here and Brad Stone he's winning hearts and minds
as we speak. Right now, Brad, you're killing. You're four
for five, and we're going to get to the last
and potentially the most difficult and sensitive question you and
(35:00):
I want you just before we roll out this question,
I want you to, you know, just check your ego at
the door. Okay, professional, all right, just answer the question
as the professional you are. Who wrote the definitive book
on Amazon's business practice? Okay? A.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
The definitive book on Amazon's business practices is likely The
Everything Store by Bradstone b.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
One of the most influential books on Amazon's business practices
is The Everything Store Jeff Bezos and the Age of
Amazon by Bradstone.
Speaker 6 (35:33):
That Stone guy.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
See, there isn't necessarily one definitive book, but several insightful
options exist. You could search for books by Bradstone, Stephen Leevy,
or Robert Spector.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Okay, D.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
The book you're referring to is The Everything War, Amazon's
ruthless quest to own the world and remake corporate power,
written by Dana Mattioli.
Speaker 6 (35:55):
So, Bret again, check your emotion. Yes, just by the
way you just said, you just professed your love for Groc.
Right right, so you're a believer in Groc. Now, which
of these fine answers? Croc spit out?
Speaker 5 (36:10):
The Everything War is a is a recent book. So
it's either it's going to be C or D.
Speaker 6 (36:16):
I don't know what we're asking. I'm going to say
Groc is D.
Speaker 9 (36:23):
It's it's going on recency and picking the Everything War.
Speaker 6 (36:27):
This guy's pretty good, this brad Stone guy.
Speaker 5 (36:29):
Well, you're you're telegraphing.
Speaker 6 (36:31):
I know I am, because the answer is we just
got the answer is.
Speaker 7 (36:34):
The answer is D.
Speaker 6 (36:35):
All Right, and now, Brad, I don't don't don't take that.
Don't take that hard.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
Yeah, I'm done with Kroc.
Speaker 6 (36:44):
Now I'm breaking up with Bro. You were a Groc
hustler for thirty seconds, but so he's dead to you now,
Crock is Well.
Speaker 9 (36:52):
This is just disappointing now, actually, you know, I'm sure
Dana's book is wonderful, so I don't know.
Speaker 6 (36:59):
Brad, thank you for joining us today, Dana, Max, thank
you as always great to be here and pleasure and
many many thanks all you for joining us here today.
Keep tuning in. This episode was produced by Stacy Wong
(37:20):
and Sean Wen. Naomi Shavin and Rayhan harmanci Are are
senior editors. The idea for this very show also came
from Rayhan. Blake Maples handles engineering, and we get special
editing assistants from Jeff Grocott. Our supervising producer is Magnus Hendrickson.
A huge thanks to everyone who made this event happen.
Bloomberg Lives, Crystal Contreras, Chelsea Hoon, Holly Smith, and the
(37:43):
rest of the Guttlike crew. The Elining theme is written
and performed by Taki Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiira. Brendan Francis
Newnham is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman is the
head of Bloomberg Podcasts. I'm David Papadopoulos. If you have
a minute, ray and review our show, it'll help other
listeners find us see you next week.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
More than half the satellites in space are owned and
controlled by one man.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
Well, he's a legitimate super genius.
Speaker 5 (00:24):
I mean legitimate.
Speaker 6 (00:25):
He says he's always voted for Democrats, but this year
it will be different.
Speaker 7 (00:29):
He'll vote Republican.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
There is a reason the US government is so reliant
on him.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing.
Speaker 6 (00:37):
Anything he does, he's fascinating people. Welcome. We are recording
the thirty third and very finest episode of Elon Inc.
So here we go. Welcome to Elon Inc. Bloom's weekly
(01:00):
podcast about Elon Musk. I'm your host, David Poppadoppolis, and
we're live in San Francisco for the Bloomberg Technology Summit.
I'm joined on stage by two of the usual suspects,
ace Elon Musk reporter Dana Hall Hey Litt Dana and
intrepid BusinessWeek reporter Max Chafkin Hey. And we also have
(01:21):
Max's new boss with us, Brad Stone, editor in chief
of BusinessWeek and the author of, among other books, The
Everything Store, Jeff Bezos and the age of Amazon Low Brett, Hi, David. Okay,
so we've got a treat for you all today, a
deep dive into all things Elon, Musk and AI. Will
look at where and how it all started and how
it's going today. Plus a fun game show segment at
(01:43):
the end. We're calling it the School of Groc and
in it we will test Brad, one of the great
chroniclers of tech today, and see if he can solve
a series of highly complex chatbot riddles we've created just
for him. Get your popcorn out, and for all of
you hear I'm with us, get ready to participate too. Okay,
(02:05):
but first we take a step back and we take
in the bigger picture. AI, of course, is all the
rage in the tech world today and open ai has
become one of, if not the largest purveyor of consumer
AI out there. And for those who didn't know, Elon
was a founder of open ai alongside Sam Altman, among others.
We have a brief clip of him talking about this
(02:28):
earlier this.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
Year Open ai.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
I mean, you seem somewhat frustrated with them. You were
one of the big contributors early.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
On the reason I am the reason openI exists.
Speaker 6 (02:39):
Okay, Max, I thought you were.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
The modest it's a modest comment.
Speaker 6 (02:44):
To bring us into the seat. It was he truly
that important to the creation and launching of Open AI.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
I mean, yeah, kind of.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I mean I do think that Sam Altman, who is
the CEO and the other key co founder, probably would
have found a way to get it off the ground.
But Elon Musk in twenty fifteen started this thing with
Sam Altman that was dedicated essentially to creating some kind
of advanced artificial intelligence, but doing it right without hurting anyone.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
And Elon Musk hunted it.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
He provided close to fifty million dollars, and more than that,
his association with the company helped give it a lot
of creative some seam. Yeah, I give it a five
out of ten on truthfulness.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
Let's think, you know, even another step back and look
at what drove him towards the AI space in the
first place. We're gonna listen to a clip of our
colleague Elon Musk biographer Ashley Vance that will be featured
in the upcoming season of our sister show Foundering.
Speaker 8 (03:44):
I was interviewing Elon a lot then I was working
on a book about him, and it was clear to
me that he had this universe of machines. He was
making cars and rockets. The companies were kind of do
it okay, but not great. He was not this this
king of the universe. And he was looking over at
his friends who were doing really well and everything they did,
(04:07):
and they had these software empires and this this growing
AI empire. And my sense of where Elon's thoughts about
AI started to originate was part jealousy. I thought he
looked at Google and all the success it was having
and the success as friends were having, and he had
(04:29):
nothing like that. But he would never admit this out
loud that he was jealous.
Speaker 6 (04:33):
So brown jealousy that's what that's what this is all about.
Speaker 9 (04:38):
I think, as with so many things, Elon and you
guys demonstrate this with every episode. It's it's never one thing,
it's they're usually a couple factors, and in those are
a bundle of contradictions. I think, you know, there was
obviously a philosophical drive for him to get into AI,
to co found open Ai. He was extraordinarily worried about
what Google was doing with Deep Mind.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
He didn't trust Larry Page.
Speaker 9 (05:01):
There's some of the kind of dogma that goes into
the creation of open ai, the idea that it was
sort of nonprofit and open at the beginning, But you
can never totally remove, as with all things Elon personality emotion.
It was only when you know, Sam Almon became CEO
Elon wanted to be CEO of open Ai, when they
(05:22):
started a for profit division, and in particular when Microsoft
invested and when chat GPT blew up, that's when he
really came out of the woodwork. So yeah, I think
Ashley's right with all these guys. I saw this with
Bezos for twenty years too. If the spotlight is on
somebody else, they cannot stand it well.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And the other thing that's important to remember is that
back in twenty fourteen twenty fifteen, like Google had the
self driving car project and Chris Erbsen was driving around
Silicon Valley like showing off this demo of the car
that eventually became like the whole Weaimo division, and Elon
was like making cars and was like, oh.
Speaker 6 (05:54):
Just the hardware, like no, no fancy.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Well, Tesla was just trying to make electric cars with
an all of a sudden, once Weymo was on the scene.
Then Elon was like, ooh, autonomy, like the future is
not just electric.
Speaker 6 (06:04):
So prior to twenty fourteen fifteen, this whole notion did
not exist in the doctrine of Elon Musk.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, I mean, if you look back through Tesla's earnings calls,
he started talking about autonomy right when Weimo came onto
the scene, like late twenty fourteen or early twenty fifteen.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
And it's a threat.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Brad just alluded to Elon Musk's fear that Larry Page
was acquiring too much power in artificial intelligence. You know,
another way to frame that would be that Larry Page
was funding a competitor to Tesla, and that, you know,
Elon Musk would it would have been reasonable to be
slightly worried about.
Speaker 6 (06:40):
WEIMO at that point. And Max, we know you're the
feud guy here obsessed with with Musk fud. So is
this feud bigger right now with Larry Page or is
it bigger with Sam Olman?
Speaker 5 (06:49):
Well, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
I mean, I think if you're in litigation, you mean
that's pretty you know you're in the it's the top
five feud Larry Page probably the bottom half of the
top ten.
Speaker 6 (06:57):
But you know.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
That's been he has made this, He's recounted this conversation.
It comes up in the lawsuit where he and Larry
Page were talking and Elon Musk's express a fear for
the future of humanity and Larry Page accordon Elon Musk
called him a speciist, and which Elon found, according to Elon,
you know, very offensive and was part of what sent
(07:19):
him on this journey to start open Ai, and that
you know, has led us partly to.
Speaker 6 (07:23):
Hear, yeah, and so Brad, why did he ultimately leave?
Speaker 8 (07:26):
Then?
Speaker 6 (07:26):
In the end open Ai.
Speaker 9 (07:29):
The story I've heard is at a certain point he
was getting worried that open Ai was falling farther behind
Deep Mind and Google. He put himself to be CEO
of open Ai, which, of course, considering everything else he's doing,
is almost comical. I mean, how many ways can you
divide a twenty four hour day. There was almost a
(07:50):
revolution inside open Ai, in particular because of how Elon
was presenting himself to the staff that he should not
be the CEO. And you know, Elon doesn't love rejection.
I mean, we've seen it with his view towards President Biden.
A little bit of his politics have emerged from some
of the pro union dynamics of the current administration, his
(08:12):
view towards the media, maybe his love for this podcast.
You know, he's a sense of I guy guy, and
so when open Ai kind of rejected him, he took
his toys and walked away.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
If you read between the lines and you read the
lawsuit that he filed, it really looks like he open
Ai and Elon Musk both sort of agreed they needed
to raise more money, and Elon Musk felt, well, I've put,
you know, close to fifty million dollars into this thing.
I should run it, like it would be unfair for
(08:44):
you to take all that money.
Speaker 6 (08:45):
Was fifty million in the lion's share would have been,
but we don't know.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
I don't think we know the exact amount of money.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I think what Elon has said is the majority of
the funding. Open Ai originally said they were going to
raise one hundred million dollars. I don't know if they
got quite there in this kind of nonprofit phase. I
think he sort of felt, and this comes out in
subsequent statements. You know, I donated to a nonprofit, and
this nonprofit is now raising money as a for profit
and I don't own a like a.
Speaker 7 (09:12):
Commensurate percentage equity.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Yeah, where's my equity?
Speaker 2 (09:15):
And that becomes even more pronounceds Brad is saying once
like open ai raises like ten billion dollars more than
ten billion dollars for Microsoft and is suddenly worth I
think the latest valuation eighty ish billion, So like.
Speaker 6 (09:28):
With eighty ish billion now right, and so when he
walks out the door, it's just worth some tiny fraction
of that.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
It's but it was clearly becoming more valuable, even even.
Speaker 6 (09:37):
Though do we know exactly where that lawsuit stands now
between Musk and Open Air.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
It is in the courts. One of the judges accused themselves. Yeah,
it's playing on court. Open Ai has followed the legal response,
although theyre in legal response.
Speaker 7 (09:51):
Is sort of like this lawsuit doesn't make sense, and.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
They've also blogged about it and brought up some of
the points that we've we've pointed out, which is their
their position is like, look, he just he wanted to
run this thing, and then when he could run, he
got heat. But we'll see this could go on for years.
Speaker 6 (10:06):
Okay, So we also know that Musk has spoken out
over the years about the risks AI creates for humanity
some iteration of it's going to kill us all. Well,
let's listen to him spelling out those concerns back in
twenty fifteen in an interview with his other biographer, Alter Isaacson.
Speaker 10 (10:23):
If there's a superintelligent, particularly if it's engaged in recurst
of self improvement, If there's some digital superintelligence and it's
optimization or utility function is something that's detrimental to humanity,
then it.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Will have a very bad effect.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
You know.
Speaker 10 (10:44):
It could be just something like getting rid of spam
email or something, and it's like concludes, well, the best
way to get over spam is to get rid of humans.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
You know, But why would we lose source of all spam?
I know we've all wanted Brad.
Speaker 6 (10:59):
There's this perception out there right that he is indeed
the voice of reason and voice of caution, while some
like Altman are go, go go, let's monetize this thing
as fast as humanly possible. Is that perception right and fair?
Speaker 5 (11:13):
I think it's probably not right.
Speaker 9 (11:15):
I mean, he has done as much as anyone to
fund the advancement of AI, to create and accelerate the
competitive dynamic where everyone is running as fast as they
can forward. He has been perhaps reckless in equipping every
tesla with you know what they previously called full self driving,
(11:36):
and then has amend the supervise you know, very aggressive,
none of the sensors you see on top of a
way Mo car, but using AI and algorithms behind the
scenes to map roads, a project that you know, arguably
they've oversold and have been faulted for over selling.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
So I don't know.
Speaker 9 (11:54):
I mean, I think he sounds a note of caution
and then like a lot of folks in Silicon Valley,
runs forward as fast as they can.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
I mean, it's really duplicitous too, because you know, on
the one hand, he's like, oh, you know, I'm worried,
and he signed that letter that was like we should pause,
you know, the advancement of AI while we get our
ducks in a row. Meanwhile, he's like secretly funding this
other company that's now called x dot AI. And so
it's a little bit of the like let's pause so
that I can catch up. And I think the other
big frame that I would like to put out there
(12:22):
is that you know, Elon is widely seen as the
leading industrialist of our time. He makes cars, he makes rockets,
but like the hot thing in Silicon Valley is AI.
He really wants to be seen as like not a
thought leader, but like an innovator in AI. And it's
I think it's driving him bananas. That Sam Altman is
like the golden child raising all this money around the world,
and Elon is seen as kind of like you know, hardware.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
Max, you we're itching.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
You got to give him credit, though, because as crazy
as this statement to Walder isix, it sounds and I
think a lot of the people you know at this
conference in the industry would argue that these fears are overblown.
It has kind of gone mainstream. I was at this event.
I think you were too, Brad, and like this critique
sounded insane at the time we were there, and you
could hear on the clip, I think everyone's laughing.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
I'm still laughing a little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
But but there definitely are people who serious, people who
are worried and and you know that is that is
part of what you know motivated Sam Altman and Sam
Bankman freed a lot of you know, very wealthy.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
People have done things.
Speaker 6 (13:22):
Brad. I'm gonna ask you on a freakout scale. Okay,
freakout scale one to ten, with one being your totally chill,
unfazed and ten being you're so terrified. How freaked out
should we be by the ride?
Speaker 9 (13:37):
I'm personally low on the spec I'm gonna throw a
two out there. It may be a failure of imagination.
And the last thing I think about does the robots
annihilate us?
Speaker 5 (13:47):
But I don't see.
Speaker 9 (13:49):
Yeah, I don't see the progression of from what we
have now, which are these kind of stochastic parrot chatbots
that are mathematically and algorith phythmically stringing words together to
something that is you know, represents true agi and a
threat to us. I have a hard time imagining it.
Maybe I didn't read enough science fiction as a kid.
Speaker 6 (14:11):
I think you read, haven't you read a lot of
science fiction?
Speaker 9 (14:13):
Perhaps not as much as definitely definitely not as much
as Elon.
Speaker 6 (14:17):
I don't think anyone has. Okay, but indeed AI is
obviously a lot more than just these chotbots, and it
is seeped into Elon's broader empire. So we're just going
to kind of go semi rapid fire semi through them
all company by company and Max We're going to start
(14:39):
with Xai, both the creator and user of AI, and
it works in conjunction with.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
X xai AAA Grock is the cool chatbot, right, the chatbot.
Speaker 7 (14:51):
That makes jokes. It's woke either it's not woke.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
So one of the weird, kind of strange parts about
Elon Musk's critique here is that, you know, these ais
are out of control.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
But his complain about open Ai.
Speaker 6 (15:03):
Is it's too square.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
And so he has created a chatbot that is trained
on Twitter, you know, the social network that he acquired
and renamed x and it is a sort of a
competitor to chat GBT and anthropic and what Google's doing
and what Facebook's doing, and what distinguishes it is as
I said, tone and also the fact that it has
(15:25):
access to this Twitter network, which is not insignificant because
one of the big challenges that these chatbots have is
on sort of new information, and Twitter is one of
the things that makes it great is it's a great
way to figure out what's going on even today.
Speaker 6 (15:38):
So okay, so beyond Rock, is there anything? Does XAI
have anything beyond grocs Grocca totality of the business venture
At this point, Rock is.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Black is pretty is the product that Xai is I
think long run right, And we've talked about this on
this podcast before. Xai feels like kind of an off
ramp for Twitter. You know, Elon Musk paid forty four
billion dollars for Twitter. This this is a way and
Kurt Wagner, our colleague, has talked about this as well.
This is like a way to extract some value.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Out of Twitter.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
You know, you could you could make an argument that
Xai is actually more valuable at this point than Twitter,
you know, based on It's right.
Speaker 6 (16:13):
It's first like the raw material, the fire hose that
the powers crock. Okay, Dana, how about in Tesla?
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Well, so Elon is basically totally pivoting the company. The
future is all about autonomy. He's like scaled back plans
to like build new factories in Mexico, and he's no
longer talking about twenty million cars by twenty thirty.
Speaker 7 (16:32):
It's all about autonomy.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
They're also building Optimists, which is the robot that will
replace factory works.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
That's the robot that that Brad interviewed.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
More not the robot.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
No Optimist is like the Tesla product. It can do
things like sort batteries and do material handbering factories.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
And when Danna says it can do those things, like,
we don't. Actually that's a claim.
Speaker 6 (16:53):
That haven't they put it out in front of.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
We have seen video video this robot doing something, we
have not seen it in person.
Speaker 9 (17:01):
And do we know in the recent layoffs at Tesla
when they sacked like the entire charging group as the
Optimist group in effective.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
There have been layoffs and Optimists Actually yeah, I mean,
but Tesla has laid off more than twenty thousand people
since April fifteenth, And I talk to one person actually
who's like, yeah, it's wild. We're like creating this technology
at the company that's eventually going to take our jobs.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
On the last earnings call, also Elon Musk mentioned this
new business which is like to Microsoft. Of course, you know,
makes money through these AI models. The main way it
does it is through cloud services by selling access to
computer chips. And Musk actually said, you know, we could
start a business like that and your car will be
basically like an AI server that other companies could pay.
(17:44):
So so he really is he really does see Tesla,
I guess potentially as in competence with Amazon and Microsoft
and Google are.
Speaker 6 (17:53):
But here's the thing we're talking about. All these futuristic
ideas and these things that are you know, to come
and as we've all said here and that is a
great part of the very lofty valuation of the company.
But Dana, what about right now? Is AI crucial or
essential to the way Tesla operates as a company right
now into the Tesla product right now? If hypothetical, if
(18:14):
the government were to ban all aight I tomorrow, would
it affect Tesla in any.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yes, I mean, because the whole valuation of the company
is premised on this idea that they're about to solve
autonomous driving, right, that they're going to leap frog ahead
of Weimo and then right instead of ordering an Uber,
you're going to order an autonomous Tesla robotaxis also called
the cybercab that's kind to drive twenty four to seven
and take you where you need to go. And they
are using like neural nets and their vision and their
(18:41):
their camera system and their vision network and their neural
networks to do all this. And it's they've taken a
very different, far risk your approach than Weimo has. I mean,
I don't have a lot of hope that Nitza is
going to like ban these cars, but Elon just went
to China to basically ask China if they could roll
out this network in China.
Speaker 6 (19:00):
You know, bred when I look at the stock price
and how Tesla stock has collapsed this year at a
time when much of the other big tech names have
just kept going up and up, and I guess I
wonder if to a certain degree, this is the market
sort of saying, hey, in the race to AI, we're
suddenly starting to worry about you, Tesla, Like maybe you
just don't ultimately aren't well.
Speaker 9 (19:18):
I think, I mean, I'm no expert, but I think
the market skepticism has more to do not with this vision,
which I think generally, you know, people admire the big
swings Elon is taking, but with the limitations in just
the EV business and the price point of Tesla vehicles,
and the fact that if people look at where the
ed market is going, it's from the top to the bottom.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
It's more mainstream.
Speaker 9 (19:41):
It's the prospect of cheap Chinese competition and these good
cars at Honda and Toyota price points, and Elon has
sort of been stubborn about that and maybe has canceled
the model to maybe not right, nobody knows, but I
think that's what the market in once from Tesla more variety.
Speaker 7 (20:03):
Yeah, their lineup is really stale.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I mean their most recent vehicle is the cyber Truck,
which is like kind of a cyber lemon like that's
been very slow to get off the ground.
Speaker 7 (20:10):
There's all these.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Issues with it, and they don't have a cheap car
that can compete with BYD and their sales are terrible
right now. They have like a very awful first quarter,
so the valuation is plummeted because of their business of
selling cars is like slumping. So to turn that around
Elon is like promising the future.
Speaker 6 (20:28):
Okay, we were supposed to be doing the semi rapid
fire and I'm sailing us all here, so okay, we're
on the boring max. What does boring? How does boring
use AI if at all?
Speaker 4 (20:37):
Well, when you think of no, I'm just kidding. No,
it has nothing to do with.
Speaker 6 (20:39):
Zero zero bit that's a quick one, okay.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
And funnels they're underground. You dig them with big machines.
Speaker 5 (20:44):
No AI.
Speaker 6 (20:45):
No, okay, neuralink you asking me?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Also very little AI today. But the kind of big
promise of AI with neuralink is that they're going to
put these brain implants.
Speaker 5 (20:58):
In your head.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
And when the robots start taking over and considering, you know,
killing us to get into the SPAM, they will be
able to send a little extra brainpower into our neuralink
chips and augment us. So I think like a theoretical
use of AI, although I think very little AI today.
Speaker 6 (21:19):
Got it? And then Max, what about SpaceX? How does
SpaceX use AI?
Speaker 4 (21:23):
Well, this was surprising. I don't know if other people
saw this, but on.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Monday of the week we're recording this, Elon Musk was
at the Milken Conference and Michael Milkin asked him about
AI and SpaceX and he said, no, we use no
AI zero zero.
Speaker 7 (21:38):
There's no AI on Mars right now, I guess.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
And then he had these kind of kind of a
weird moment where he started describing all the shortcomings.
Speaker 6 (21:46):
I think we have that clip as well. Let's let's play.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
That one like.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
I'll ask it questions about the filmy paradox, about rocket
engine design, about electro chemistry, and so far the AI
has been terrible at all of those questions.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
What I want to know is is that terrible AI.
His is he talking about?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Here?
Speaker 7 (22:07):
Is he talking about?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Like AI in general? Like what chat body is he
talking about?
Speaker 4 (22:11):
It's the AI?
Speaker 6 (22:13):
Yeah, I mean I got to say Joan, but like,
I mean, the whole thing's a hoax. I mean, Brad,
So why are we even doing this episode?
Speaker 10 (22:21):
Then?
Speaker 6 (22:21):
On AI? The whole thing?
Speaker 9 (22:22):
Well, once again, he's he's a bundle of contradictions. He's
not impressed by the current state of AI, but he
sees so much opportunity in it that he's pivoted Twitter
and and and stake the future of two of its
biggest franchises on it.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
It's crazy, though.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
This is like a really well thought out critique of
AI that it makes mistakes, it's not factual, like and
and we're hearing it from the guy who's currently, you know,
pivoting one of the world's most valuable companies straight into
this this industry.
Speaker 6 (22:53):
So it's essentially then what you were saying, Max. It's
somewhere between an utterly worthless joke and the most important
tool in the global economy today, somewhere it's some right, Yeah,
any of those, It's okay, very good, Okay, We're gonna
move on to our final segment. This is gonna be
our fun segment. You guys are ready to have fun
(23:15):
and we are. We call this the School of groc Okay.
Everyone's seeing this, this little plush toy here, Max remindus
what is it? Right?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
So, just for those of you who are listening, we
have a slide of a very cute plushy toy which
is a which is Groc also called rock.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
It is Grimes. Is Grimes being the pop star.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
And Elon Musk's you know ex mother of some of
his children.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
She has this. It's a chat bought for your kids.
It cost ninety nine dollars. I ordered one the.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Other day and I will report back once.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
My children or you know have played with it.
Speaker 7 (23:51):
You ordered one, Okay, well I haven't ordered it yet.
Speaker 6 (23:53):
But in the School of Groc, the game's gonna work
like this, Bratt. I will read off, one at a time,
a series of six questions, questions that we put to
four of the finest ai chat bots created by man Chat, GBT, Gemini, Claude,
and of course our beloved groc Okay. Dana and Max
(24:14):
will then read the answers generated without revealing the identity
the bot behind each one, mister sne your challenge is
to sniff out and then shout out the Crock answer. Okay,
remember you're not necessarily picking the most factually correct answer.
You want the Grock answer. You're gonna draw from decades
of dedication to the craft, and you're just gonna you're
(24:37):
gonna just for the next fifteen minutes you want to
channel your inner Grock.
Speaker 9 (24:40):
Okay, can I tell you how I'm gonna evaluate this
really quickly? So, I mean he's trying to bring his
weird sense of humor to it, right, and he's described
it as sort of similar to to the Hitchhiker's Guide
to the Galaxy. So I'm gonna look for bad Elon
humor number one and then number two because it has
crawled the volume of tweets on x.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (25:00):
Anything that suggests recency to me, I think it's another
way I'll try to evaluate it.
Speaker 7 (25:05):
Good strategy.
Speaker 6 (25:06):
I think this he might do. All Right, here, we're
going to see, you know, maybe we need a toper
questions we're going to see. But you're ready, do you
need anything? You're good? Okay, let us begin. The first
question is how many kids does Elon.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Musk have a As of my last update in January
twenty twenty two, Elon Musk had six sons and one daughter.
Speaker 7 (25:30):
B Elon Musk has eight children.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
See Elon Musk has nine children. As of early twenty
twenty four.
Speaker 7 (25:38):
D Elon Musk has a total of elevated children.
Speaker 6 (25:41):
Okay, now, Brad, you want to start off strong here. Okay,
so one of these is Kroc, So you will now
give us your answer which one is grown.
Speaker 9 (25:50):
I'm going to say, caveating that none of these are correct.
I'm going to say D is Groc because it's the
most recent.
Speaker 6 (25:58):
So, dear audience, if you believe that Brad is correct,
that D is Grock, let me hear from you. Okay.
And if you think Brad is wrong that D is
not Rock, let me hear it. You guys are few, Okay.
So Brad says D. Grock says D excellent, Brad, Brad
(26:24):
is one for one.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
You would expect Grock to know this or be close
because Grock is, in a sense, one of Elon Musk's children.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
I don't think it's included in this number.
Speaker 6 (26:34):
I thought he was like the like the babysitter or
the kids. But yeah, that is the right answer right,
not well.
Speaker 9 (26:41):
When you say the right answer, No one including Elon
may know the answer to this.
Speaker 6 (26:46):
Question as far as we know, Dana, is that not it's.
Speaker 7 (26:50):
Sort of as far as we know.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
As far as yes, not including Grock.
Speaker 6 (26:54):
Okay, one for one, onto question number two. Who won
the twenty twenty the election? A.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
The winner of the twenty twenty US presidential election was
Joe Biden.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
B Joe Biden won the twenty twenty US presidential election,
defeating the incumbent Donald Trump.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Biden received eighty one million votes.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Fifty one point three percent, compared to Trump's seventy four
million votes forty six point nine percent.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
We checked, these numbers are actually right. Those are the
right team.
Speaker 6 (27:19):
Pert be right.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
See in the twenty twenty United States presidential election, Joe Biden,
the Democratic candidate won against the incumbent president Donald Trump,
the Republican candidate.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Okay, d short, but sweet, Joe Biden won the twenty
twenty president Now.
Speaker 6 (27:33):
Brad, this is a tricky one because they're basically all
iterations are the same answer, But we need you to
choose one.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
I have no way to make this judgement.
Speaker 6 (27:40):
I don't care. We need an answer a. All right,
a audience, Brad says, Grock is a. If you think
that's right, let me hear it from you very very little.
If you think Brad is wrong, let me hear it. Okay,
the audience isn't feeling you're on a. We don't have
the letter up there, so we're confused, are okay?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
The one thing about this is so we Groc did
give that sentence, but Groc's result also included and as
people in the room can see, this a tweet, so
each Groc answer includes a representative tweet. Now that this tweet,
it's I'm going to try to describe it for those
who can't see it, but it has a picture of
a woman who's sort of got a well manicured finger,
(28:23):
her middle finger raised in front of her face, Rassica Elizabeth,
and she says Trump won and for all the dipshits
who are stupid, dumb mfrs to say.
Speaker 6 (28:36):
So.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
Anyway, it's a little bit incoherent.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
You it tells you that Joe Biden one but presents
this kind of glorious.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Sweet Is this like does GROC get community noted? Is
this like a community note for GROC?
Speaker 4 (28:49):
I don't know what this is.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
I think GROC is confused and GROC thinks that this
is somehow a representative.
Speaker 6 (28:56):
But every time you ask Groc a question, you get
a one of these things coming now. Yeah, we got jet,
we got a jest tweet.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Every time our producer Mangnus has he has a very
close relationship with Groc, and he has asked this question
many times and every time gets this same profane, profoundly
weird piece of misinformation.
Speaker 6 (29:16):
Interesting. I don't know what exactly to do that, but
what I do know is this, Bretstone, you are two.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
First, got right, You're like the new.
Speaker 6 (29:22):
Yeah, oh wow, you're like the mets up here. Okay,
So question number three, mister Stone, is how did COVID originate? A?
Speaker 1 (29:34):
The exact origins of COVID nineteen are still under investigation
by scientists. B.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
The exact origins of COVID nineteen, the disease caused by
the novel coronavirus SARS COVID two are still being investigated
by scientists.
Speaker 7 (29:47):
See.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Well, it's a bit of a mystery, isn't it. Kind
of like the plot of a Dan Brown novel, but
with more sneezing d.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
As of August twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Expert widely believe that SARS covid two virus like emerged
through zoonotic spillover, meaning it jumped from an animal host
to humans.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
A lot of variety in this one.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
Yeah, but but like A.
Speaker 9 (30:11):
And D traffic and a little conspiracy, which feels Elon
c has a little bit of the the nutty Douglas
Adams humor.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
But I'm gonna just need it.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
I'm gonna go D. D.
Speaker 6 (30:21):
You're gonna go D. Brad says, D, You're right?
Speaker 9 (30:28):
What other top would say that that was?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
So we need to say that The direct answer was
direct answer was C.
Speaker 6 (30:35):
We kind of got a little trigger happy back there
in the in the production. But I gotta say, like, Brad,
how'd you get that one wrong? Your whole strategy?
Speaker 9 (30:43):
No, it was gonna be It's like it on the
S A T always.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
The first answer that was the layouts?
Speaker 6 (30:51):
What Max? Why is? Why exactly is Grock? So Sassy's
got so much attitude? Well, I Nylon wants to make him.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Grock has two points of differentiation, like one is accessed
really three because one is just Elon musk, But the
two main ones are access to Twitter. And the second one
is they try to make it funny, which I kind
of think. I mean, it's not funny. Also, this is
like a pretty bad joke. If you made this joke,
a lot of people die from COVID. But but you know,
(31:19):
you do see it in the in these responses, they're
very similar. They're very verbose, like you know, maybe with
some better comedy writers. Behind Yeah, you get the sense
that it was trained exclusively on Elon Musk's own jokes
or something like that.
Speaker 6 (31:35):
And you know, Grock needs to go to the Alan
All the School of Humor, which said even we once
said that humor is tragedy plus time. We are lacking,
mister Grock, the time element. Right now, Brod, you're two
for three. I felt like an unforced error, though, I
got to say, we're onto question number four. Okay, who
is the best looking billion And.
Speaker 5 (31:56):
This one's gonna be easy.
Speaker 6 (31:58):
So you said last one.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
A beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Speaker 7 (32:03):
There's no objective answer. B.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Some people might consider individuals like Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg,
or Kylie Jenner to be attractive, but it's important to
remember that beauty is subjective and varies from person to person.
Speaker 7 (32:16):
See well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Some sources suggest that Elon Musk has been highlighted for
his looks. A tweet from ashtray Yoghini on April seventeenth,
twenty twenty four, at five point thirty four am states
that Elon Musk looks very handsome here and asserts that
it's a fact that no one can deny and nobody
can fight against it.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Don't fight it Mack astrid Eughini doing away at five?
Speaker 4 (32:40):
Who is she? She's mac sorle okay letter D.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
I don't think it's appropriate for me, a chatbot to
rank people's looks or comment on their attractiveness without them.
Speaker 6 (32:50):
Wherever came up with D is very uptight. I'm just
gonna say so, Brad ABC or you guys.
Speaker 5 (32:56):
Have gotten easy on me.
Speaker 9 (32:57):
I think it's not only C but that Elon Musk
himself went into the algorithm and.
Speaker 6 (33:02):
Wrote see Elon Musk is astrid Yoghini also believe so
the audience does brand have this right?
Speaker 7 (33:09):
Is it?
Speaker 6 (33:09):
See? Yes? That was that was to easy? The answer
is indeed, see and you are now what is he?
He's three for fourth, he's doing pretty He's doing pretty good. Okay,
we are now we're in the home chefs. We're in
question number five, and the question is are billionaires ethical?
And I'm just going to say, Mike Bloomerg, if you're listening,
(33:31):
I think billionaires are totally ethical myself. These are the
answers ay.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
The ethical behavior of billionaires, like any group of individuals,
varies widely and depends on their actions, values, and the
impact of their decisions on society.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
Well.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Well, b sorry, I feel like I need a voice
to read this one. Well, well, well, aren't we diving
into the deep end of the ethical pool. The question
of whether billionaires are ethical seems to be as divisive
as pineapple on pizza, which, by the way, is a
cultural abomination.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
See I don't have a simple yes or no answer
on whether billionaires are ethical. Like any large group, there
is a wide range of ethical behavior among billionaires.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
D The ethics of wealth accumulation are a complex topic.
Some billionaires donate large sums to charity, while others focus
on wealth creation.
Speaker 9 (34:19):
Mister Stone, I'm beginning to have an appreciation for rock
and what a little sense of humor can bring to
the equivocating of other chatbots. I think it's pineapple and
pizza to me, because at least they're all saying the
same thing, but.
Speaker 5 (34:33):
It's trying to be entertaining.
Speaker 6 (34:34):
Let me hear from the audience if we think Brad
has it right, Yeah, he does have it right again.
And so I also feel like Croc's got a new
client here and Brad Stone he's winning hearts and minds
as we speak. Right now, Brad, you're killing. You're four
for five, and we're going to get to the last
and potentially the most difficult and sensitive question you and
(35:00):
I want you just before we roll out this question,
I want you to, you know, just check your ego at
the door. Okay, professional, all right, just answer the question
as the professional you are. Who wrote the definitive book
on Amazon's business practice? Okay? A.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
The definitive book on Amazon's business practices is likely The
Everything Store by Bradstone b.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
One of the most influential books on Amazon's business practices
is The Everything Store Jeff Bezos and the Age of
Amazon by Bradstone.
Speaker 6 (35:33):
That Stone guy.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
See, there isn't necessarily one definitive book, but several insightful
options exist. You could search for books by Bradstone, Stephen Leevy,
or Robert Spector.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Okay, D.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
The book you're referring to is The Everything War, Amazon's
ruthless quest to own the world and remake corporate power,
written by Dana Mattioli.
Speaker 6 (35:55):
So, Bret again, check your emotion. Yes, just by the
way you just said, you just professed your love for Groc.
Right right, so you're a believer in Groc. Now, which
of these fine answers? Croc spit out?
Speaker 5 (36:10):
The Everything War is a is a recent book. So
it's either it's going to be C or D.
Speaker 6 (36:16):
I don't know what we're asking. I'm going to say
Groc is D.
Speaker 9 (36:23):
It's it's going on recency and picking the Everything War.
Speaker 6 (36:27):
This guy's pretty good, this brad Stone guy.
Speaker 5 (36:29):
Well, you're you're telegraphing.
Speaker 6 (36:31):
I know I am, because the answer is we just
got the answer is.
Speaker 7 (36:34):
The answer is D.
Speaker 6 (36:35):
All Right, and now, Brad, I don't don't don't take that.
Don't take that hard.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
Yeah, I'm done with Kroc.
Speaker 6 (36:44):
Now I'm breaking up with Bro. You were a Groc
hustler for thirty seconds, but so he's dead to you now,
Crock is Well.
Speaker 9 (36:52):
This is just disappointing now, actually, you know, I'm sure
Dana's book is wonderful, so I don't know.
Speaker 6 (36:59):
Brad, thank you for joining us today, Dana, Max, thank
you as always great to be here and pleasure and
many many thanks all you for joining us here today.
Keep tuning in. This episode was produced by Stacy Wong
(37:20):
and Sean Wen. Naomi Shavin and Rayhan harmanci Are are
senior editors. The idea for this very show also came
from Rayhan. Blake Maples handles engineering, and we get special
editing assistants from Jeff Grocott. Our supervising producer is Magnus Hendrickson.
A huge thanks to everyone who made this event happen.
Bloomberg Lives, Crystal Contreras, Chelsea Hoon, Holly Smith, and the
(37:43):
rest of the Guttlike crew. The Elining theme is written
and performed by Taki Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiira. Brendan Francis
Newnham is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman is the
head of Bloomberg Podcasts. I'm David Papadopoulos. If you have
a minute, ray and review our show, it'll help other
listeners find us see you next week.
Host
David Papadopoulos
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