October 17, 2016 • 15 mins
Very few things have stopped Uber in its quest for world domination -- except Didi, the Chinese ride-hailing startup that in August announced it will buy Uber's China operations. This week Lulu Chen and Brad Stone tell the story of how Didi rose to prominence, and the battles its founder Cheng Wei waged to defeat dozens of Chinese rivals before taking on Uber. Now that it's conquered the world's largest ride-hailing market, can Didi finally make money?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This August, Chung Wi, the CEO of a Chinese technology
startup named Dee Dee Chuk Singh, went to an upscale
Beijing bar for a drink of baiju, a traditional Chinese
liquor that I know from personal experience is very difficult
to drink. His drinking partner was Travis Kalenik, his arch nemesis,
his better noir, the founder and the CEO of Uber.
(00:22):
Uber and Deed were finalizing a historic deal. After a
year and a half of furious money losing competition over
the ride hailing market in China, the two companies had
reached a Dayton truth the multibillion dollar price warfare China's
ride hailing market. After losing nearly two billion dollars in
just two years. Chung Wai was virtually unknown on the
(00:44):
international business stage, but here he was thirty three years old,
four years off a job as a salesman at Ali Baba,
the Chinese e commerce giant, drinking with the world's most famous,
controversial and feared entrepreneur. Now. Uber is the dominant ride
sharing company in the US, in Europe and South America,
(01:05):
in some parts of Asia, but not in China. They
competed hard for China, spending about two billion dollars, but
this was all akin to a defeat. It was abandoning
its team in China and it's bid to win the
world's largest transportation market. In late September, I flew to
Beishing with my distinguished colleague Lu lu Chan to sit
(01:25):
down with Chung Wei. Very little Chinese. Okay, he said
that travis Is alcohol tolerance was only so so, but
he really only had good things to say about Uber
is also a great company. They have the best strategy
in China among all the Silicon Valley companies. They're not
(01:47):
like the usual phone company in China. They're more like
a startup full of passion, feeling like they're fighting for themselves. Hi,
this is Brad Stone and I'm Lulu Chen, and this
week Undecrypted, we're bringing you the story of the Uberslayer.
(02:09):
How does an entrepreneur with no previous experience running a
business start a ride sharing app back in two thousand
and twelve in the midst of at least three dozen
other rivals, and how does he then compete his way
to the very top of the pack in China to
direct and ultimately victorious competition with the world's most highly
valued and most feared start and more importantly, how does
(02:32):
it start up? Like beating that has only lived in
the short span of life, known furious competition, financial losses,
and wartime environment. Can it turn into a real money
making business? And can it fulfill its promise to solve
the transportation problems of major Chinese cities. So let's let's
start at the beginning. Tell me about Chung Wei. What's
(02:52):
his story? Well, Choi was born in province that's the
cradle of Multadon's revolution. He attended the Beijing University of
Chemical Technology, not a top tier college in China. He
had a series of odd stints. At his worst, he
was the assistant to the manager of a foot massage
parlor um. This was because some very misguided advertisements that
(03:15):
he saw. He thought he was going to work for
a healthcare company. How did he get the job at
Ali Baba, Well, he just literally showed up at Ali
Baba's office in Shanghai. He went to the front desk
and asked for a job, and they welcomed him. So
I was twenty two when I graduated from university and
(03:35):
joined Ali Baba. That time I was a blank piece
of paper. I could only get fifteen hundred you on
a month at Ali Baba, A level P four the
lowest level of employee at Ali Baba. And it was
at Ali Baba selling ads that Chung reported to this
guy named Wang Gong. When Wong was passed up for promotion,
he gathered some of his mentees, including Cheung, and they
(03:56):
brainstormed ideas for startups. The inspiration came from an unlikely
source called the Tinder of China. Here's what Wang Gang
told us. In February two twelve, we saw an app
called Momo. We saw for the first time that you
were able to track girls based on their location. The
idea of location based apps came into view. So Chong
(04:21):
left Ali Baba along with Wong and a few other colleagues.
Wong funded the bulk of the eight hundred thousand yun
the startup money that they had. It was worth about
a hundred twenty dollars at the time. They rented out
this shabby warehouse and they called themselves Did Data, which
means Hong Kong Taxi. It was only later in and
(04:43):
the dead of winter that I first heard about the company.
It was a lucky break. At first, users had no
habit of using phones to hail cars, but that winter
on November three, we had a huge snowstorm. No one
could get home, so people tried it out. The drivers exclaimed, wow,
(05:03):
so many people hailing cars. This isn't afford and passengers
were able to get cars, so they would say, I
got a car. Amazing. In fact, it hasn't snowed as
much in the past two years. If you didn't snow
that year, maybe did, he wouldn't be here today. And
at the time ded was in this battle with about
thirty other startups doing similar things. The smart decision that
(05:24):
d d made early on was to target taxi drivers
instead of black car shoffers, because there are so many
more cabs than black cars out there. These early employees
called each other classmates as they had an ali baba,
and they were a tight knick group, dedicated, scrappy, and
pretty relentless. There was this one time when one of
(05:45):
Dede's rivals rented out the entire Beijing airport to promote
their app. What DEED did was flocked to Beijing's biggest
train station instead, and as the cabbies moved along the
pick up station. They would chase them down convinced them
to use their app instead. It was pretty tough getting
up at four am in the winter called not a
lot of teams can commit to that. An interesting to mention.
(06:07):
The competition on the Internet in China is a reliance
on what's called the Big Three bay Do, which is
China's big search engine, ten Cent the combination of social
media and video games, and Ali Baba, the e commerce company.
The company with the strongest connection to one of the
Big three usually wins, and in early two thousand thirteen,
Ded was dealt a big blow. Ali Baba actually invested
(06:30):
in one of its chief rivals called Quite. Wang Gang
told us that he called a friend of his at
Ali Baba, who wouldn't commit to an investment. Indeed, so
I thought them investing my competitor, that might mean that
they want to kill me. So in order to survive,
we needed to find a big tree to lean on.
At that time, we Chat was story so as a
(06:52):
user oriented product, ten Cent would help us more bid.
You didn't have any highlights in mobile internet, so we
didn't want to take bidus. Mon Cheung Wei taking on
ten Cent as an investor and a partner. Indeed changed
the whole ride sharing world in China because in early
two thousand fourteen, over the Lunar New Year, ten Cent
launched a promotion on wheat chat called Red and Blue.
(07:15):
Chinese people have a custom of giving each other red
packets over the New Year. Tencent thought, why not digitize
it and change it into a game where people in
group chats can fight over these little amounts of money,
and so Tencent try this out with discounts on Ded's
cab rights. It wasn't so much about the actual money,
but the entertainment factor. One lucky person in the group
(07:36):
might get a windfall while the other people just get
a few cents. It was an instant hit. The discounts
ended up attracting so many users that at one point
the servers at both companies crashed. Ded's engineers would see
users screwing to their side. After quite de servers crash
and and back and forth. Yeah, it was pretty intense.
(07:56):
At one point, chungwe had to go to ten Sent
and asked the founder of Mahaton for a thousand servers
and fifty people to help them out. They were hold
up in the offices for so long that at the
end of the soul called seven day seven night battle,
one of their employees had to go to the hospital
and have his contact lens is surgically removed. So the
(08:19):
story became sort of this myth in the company that
people still talk about today, and it's the name of
one of their conference rooms. Even this was really the
beginning of the irrational period in the Chinese ride sharing wars.
It kind of spiraled into a free for all, free
spending proxy battle between ten Cent and Ali Baba, which
(08:39):
had its own payments app that they were promoting called
Ali Pai d D and quitey were the ponds or
the proxies in this high stakes war. The competition for
users was fierce and vicious, and both sides seemed ready
and willing to spend inordinate amounts of money. Since people
know that the winn it takes all. Since people know
(08:59):
that the competition and will be fierce, why not put
in your best weapons from the very beginning. This is
the background of this time, so only those competitors that
know the rules best can have the chance to win
the competition. Now, as the battle between the two Chinese
right hailing companies intensified, there was also a barbarian at
(09:21):
the gate. Uber had been experimenting in China for a year,
and by now they were ready for a major expansion.
So this is the end of two thousand and fourteen
and De d and Quitee decided that it was time
to end their blood feud. Urie Milner, who's the head
of the Silicon Valley venture capital firm DST, acted as
a go between for ten Cent and Ali Baba and
(09:42):
told Cheung Wee, as long as you guys merge, I'll
invest in you. So from the beginning of two thousand fifteen,
Uber and the combined DD quite E embarked on a
fifteen month war, and it was a brutal fight. The
technology was ready and the global marketing strategy a lot
of pressure on NOUS. At that time, we felt like
(10:02):
the People's Liberation Army with basic rifles and we were
being bombed by air forces and missiles. Both Uber and
DEDI raised billions of dollars from every corner of the globe.
DEE got a billion from Apple, Uber got three point
five billion from Saudi Arabia. And this is what made
Chungwai such a perfect foil for Travis Kalinak. He seems
(10:25):
mild manner, but we could tell from visiting his office
the kinds of books he has in his bookshelf, his
use of military lessons from history, that this is a
guy who loves competition. Indeed, he really up its marketing
and i T infrastructure. After Uber came to China after
half a year's of battle, they had some sense that
they probably could win this battle. Uber ended up spending
(10:48):
two billion dollars in China over the course of two years.
Even for a giant like Uber, it was too much,
and they decided to bow out of China this past August. Lulu,
why was this such an important country for Uber to win? Well,
Um to think about the market size. It's just so significant,
such a great opportunity that Uber probably thinks they can't
(11:09):
afford to lose out. If you think about it, there
are seven cities in the world that limit purchases of automobiles.
China has six. The country already has a d eighty
four million vehicles, and if people all aspire to that
middle class lifestyle where every family has two cars, that
model is just not sustainable. Already. Beijing in Honjo have
(11:29):
some of the worst traffic jams in the world, so
the world simply can't support that many cars. Right, sharing
is a great solution, and probably Uber saw this as
one of the biggest opportunities outside of the US. Did
the home field advantage have anything to do with it?
I mean, do you think that the Chinese government made
sure the deity would win? Exactly? The road to China
is not smooth and all sunshine if you look at it.
(11:52):
It's been littered with the corpses of other foreign companies
like Microsoft and also Facebook. Regulatory hurdles have all has
been something that foreign tech companies have faced in China.
In this case, Uber definitely was facing local restrictions hurdles
at both the central and local government level, but that
(12:12):
was also true for DD. In fact, this is a
company that has been halted some thirty times um due
to local regulations, and it's also had to pay hundreds
of millions and fines to cover for the private car drivers.
And it's probably worth pointing out the deeds battles with
the government seemed to be getting worse right now. China's
three largest cities just proposal rule that would have huge
(12:33):
implications for DP. Yeah, that's actually right. Shanghai, Beijing, Shinjin
have all proposed draft rules that stipulate only drivers with
local residencies can be allowed to operate on the private
car hailing platforms. If that rule is past, it means
like in Shanghai, for example, only less than three percent
of the currently registered drivers are qualified and only about
(12:54):
twenty of the vehicle's meet the demand. So that could
be a huge blow TODD and lead to drop and
supply and rising costs. Do you think d D can
be successful in peacetime when it doesn't have in our
chenemy to fight well. I think they still face a
pretty steep task um for when they need to become profitable.
And then also they face all these regulatory hurdles that
(13:15):
are not clear yet. They need to be more attractive
to investors if they wanted to aim from an I
P O right, and that's already creating friction with both
riders and drivers. The war was good for everyone except
d D. I mean, we took some rides in an
uber and in the d D last week, and you know,
we talk a little bit about what we heard. People
(13:37):
are complaining that it does seem like UH fares have
gone up and driving for d D has become a
less lucrative gig exactly, and you know for Tronway, ultimately,
taxi is just the beginning of his empire that he envisions. Um,
what he really wants probably is much bigger. You mentioned
a few other services like buses, bike ship are basically
(14:01):
anything with a seat on it, not to mention driver
list technology. Those are all areas that you wants to
expand in. That's it for this week's Decrypted. Thanks for listening.
If you have an iPhone, be sure to subscribe to
the show on iTunes for any of your favorite podcast
apps out there. And while you're there, please take a
moment to rate and review our show and tell us
(14:22):
what you thought of today's podcast. Write to me on
Twitter at at brad Stone and I'm at lolu Ellen.
This episode was produced by aki Ito, Tara Zorovich, Magnus Hendrickson,
and Liz Smith, with help from Nita Malhotra Hora. Aaron
Black and Matt Burley assisted with recording. Alistair Barr and
Eric Newcomer recorded the English translations from our interviews with
(14:45):
Chungwei and Wang Gone. Alec McCabe as head of Bloomberg
Podcast And before we let you go, just a quick note.
In last week's episode on fab dot com, we said
that a private equity firm bought FAB for fifteen million,
but Fab was actually sold to pc H, which is
a manufacturing company. Despite that error, it's still a great
episode and if you haven't already, I hope they'll check
(15:07):
it out. We'll see you next week, yeah,
This August, Chung Wi, the CEO of a Chinese technology
startup named Dee Dee Chuk Singh, went to an upscale
Beijing bar for a drink of baiju, a traditional Chinese
liquor that I know from personal experience is very difficult
to drink. His drinking partner was Travis Kalenik, his arch nemesis,
his better noir, the founder and the CEO of Uber.
(00:22):
Uber and Deed were finalizing a historic deal. After a
year and a half of furious money losing competition over
the ride hailing market in China, the two companies had
reached a Dayton truth the multibillion dollar price warfare China's
ride hailing market. After losing nearly two billion dollars in
just two years. Chung Wai was virtually unknown on the
(00:44):
international business stage, but here he was thirty three years old,
four years off a job as a salesman at Ali Baba,
the Chinese e commerce giant, drinking with the world's most famous,
controversial and feared entrepreneur. Now. Uber is the dominant ride
sharing company in the US, in Europe and South America,
(01:05):
in some parts of Asia, but not in China. They
competed hard for China, spending about two billion dollars, but
this was all akin to a defeat. It was abandoning
its team in China and it's bid to win the
world's largest transportation market. In late September, I flew to
Beishing with my distinguished colleague Lu lu Chan to sit
(01:25):
down with Chung Wei. Very little Chinese. Okay, he said
that travis Is alcohol tolerance was only so so, but
he really only had good things to say about Uber
is also a great company. They have the best strategy
in China among all the Silicon Valley companies. They're not
(01:47):
like the usual phone company in China. They're more like
a startup full of passion, feeling like they're fighting for themselves. Hi,
this is Brad Stone and I'm Lulu Chen, and this
week Undecrypted, we're bringing you the story of the Uberslayer.
(02:09):
How does an entrepreneur with no previous experience running a
business start a ride sharing app back in two thousand
and twelve in the midst of at least three dozen
other rivals, and how does he then compete his way
to the very top of the pack in China to
direct and ultimately victorious competition with the world's most highly
valued and most feared start and more importantly, how does
(02:32):
it start up? Like beating that has only lived in
the short span of life, known furious competition, financial losses,
and wartime environment. Can it turn into a real money
making business? And can it fulfill its promise to solve
the transportation problems of major Chinese cities. So let's let's
start at the beginning. Tell me about Chung Wei. What's
(02:52):
his story? Well, Choi was born in province that's the
cradle of Multadon's revolution. He attended the Beijing University of
Chemical Technology, not a top tier college in China. He
had a series of odd stints. At his worst, he
was the assistant to the manager of a foot massage
parlor um. This was because some very misguided advertisements that
(03:15):
he saw. He thought he was going to work for
a healthcare company. How did he get the job at
Ali Baba, Well, he just literally showed up at Ali
Baba's office in Shanghai. He went to the front desk
and asked for a job, and they welcomed him. So
I was twenty two when I graduated from university and
(03:35):
joined Ali Baba. That time I was a blank piece
of paper. I could only get fifteen hundred you on
a month at Ali Baba, A level P four the
lowest level of employee at Ali Baba. And it was
at Ali Baba selling ads that Chung reported to this
guy named Wang Gong. When Wong was passed up for promotion,
he gathered some of his mentees, including Cheung, and they
(03:56):
brainstormed ideas for startups. The inspiration came from an unlikely
source called the Tinder of China. Here's what Wang Gang
told us. In February two twelve, we saw an app
called Momo. We saw for the first time that you
were able to track girls based on their location. The
idea of location based apps came into view. So Chong
(04:21):
left Ali Baba along with Wong and a few other colleagues.
Wong funded the bulk of the eight hundred thousand yun
the startup money that they had. It was worth about
a hundred twenty dollars at the time. They rented out
this shabby warehouse and they called themselves Did Data, which
means Hong Kong Taxi. It was only later in and
(04:43):
the dead of winter that I first heard about the company.
It was a lucky break. At first, users had no
habit of using phones to hail cars, but that winter
on November three, we had a huge snowstorm. No one
could get home, so people tried it out. The drivers exclaimed, wow,
(05:03):
so many people hailing cars. This isn't afford and passengers
were able to get cars, so they would say, I
got a car. Amazing. In fact, it hasn't snowed as
much in the past two years. If you didn't snow
that year, maybe did, he wouldn't be here today. And
at the time ded was in this battle with about
thirty other startups doing similar things. The smart decision that
(05:24):
d d made early on was to target taxi drivers
instead of black car shoffers, because there are so many
more cabs than black cars out there. These early employees
called each other classmates as they had an ali baba,
and they were a tight knick group, dedicated, scrappy, and
pretty relentless. There was this one time when one of
(05:45):
Dede's rivals rented out the entire Beijing airport to promote
their app. What DEED did was flocked to Beijing's biggest
train station instead, and as the cabbies moved along the
pick up station. They would chase them down convinced them
to use their app instead. It was pretty tough getting
up at four am in the winter called not a
lot of teams can commit to that. An interesting to mention.
(06:07):
The competition on the Internet in China is a reliance
on what's called the Big Three bay Do, which is
China's big search engine, ten Cent the combination of social
media and video games, and Ali Baba, the e commerce company.
The company with the strongest connection to one of the
Big three usually wins, and in early two thousand thirteen,
Ded was dealt a big blow. Ali Baba actually invested
(06:30):
in one of its chief rivals called Quite. Wang Gang
told us that he called a friend of his at
Ali Baba, who wouldn't commit to an investment. Indeed, so
I thought them investing my competitor, that might mean that
they want to kill me. So in order to survive,
we needed to find a big tree to lean on.
At that time, we Chat was story so as a
(06:52):
user oriented product, ten Cent would help us more bid.
You didn't have any highlights in mobile internet, so we
didn't want to take bidus. Mon Cheung Wei taking on
ten Cent as an investor and a partner. Indeed changed
the whole ride sharing world in China because in early
two thousand fourteen, over the Lunar New Year, ten Cent
launched a promotion on wheat chat called Red and Blue.
(07:15):
Chinese people have a custom of giving each other red
packets over the New Year. Tencent thought, why not digitize
it and change it into a game where people in
group chats can fight over these little amounts of money,
and so Tencent try this out with discounts on Ded's
cab rights. It wasn't so much about the actual money,
but the entertainment factor. One lucky person in the group
(07:36):
might get a windfall while the other people just get
a few cents. It was an instant hit. The discounts
ended up attracting so many users that at one point
the servers at both companies crashed. Ded's engineers would see
users screwing to their side. After quite de servers crash
and and back and forth. Yeah, it was pretty intense.
(07:56):
At one point, chungwe had to go to ten Sent
and asked the founder of Mahaton for a thousand servers
and fifty people to help them out. They were hold
up in the offices for so long that at the
end of the soul called seven day seven night battle,
one of their employees had to go to the hospital
and have his contact lens is surgically removed. So the
(08:19):
story became sort of this myth in the company that
people still talk about today, and it's the name of
one of their conference rooms. Even this was really the
beginning of the irrational period in the Chinese ride sharing wars.
It kind of spiraled into a free for all, free
spending proxy battle between ten Cent and Ali Baba, which
(08:39):
had its own payments app that they were promoting called
Ali Pai d D and quitey were the ponds or
the proxies in this high stakes war. The competition for
users was fierce and vicious, and both sides seemed ready
and willing to spend inordinate amounts of money. Since people
know that the winn it takes all. Since people know
(08:59):
that the competition and will be fierce, why not put
in your best weapons from the very beginning. This is
the background of this time, so only those competitors that
know the rules best can have the chance to win
the competition. Now, as the battle between the two Chinese
right hailing companies intensified, there was also a barbarian at
(09:21):
the gate. Uber had been experimenting in China for a year,
and by now they were ready for a major expansion.
So this is the end of two thousand and fourteen
and De d and Quitee decided that it was time
to end their blood feud. Urie Milner, who's the head
of the Silicon Valley venture capital firm DST, acted as
a go between for ten Cent and Ali Baba and
(09:42):
told Cheung Wee, as long as you guys merge, I'll
invest in you. So from the beginning of two thousand fifteen,
Uber and the combined DD quite E embarked on a
fifteen month war, and it was a brutal fight. The
technology was ready and the global marketing strategy a lot
of pressure on NOUS. At that time, we felt like
(10:02):
the People's Liberation Army with basic rifles and we were
being bombed by air forces and missiles. Both Uber and
DEDI raised billions of dollars from every corner of the globe.
DEE got a billion from Apple, Uber got three point
five billion from Saudi Arabia. And this is what made
Chungwai such a perfect foil for Travis Kalinak. He seems
(10:25):
mild manner, but we could tell from visiting his office
the kinds of books he has in his bookshelf, his
use of military lessons from history, that this is a
guy who loves competition. Indeed, he really up its marketing
and i T infrastructure. After Uber came to China after
half a year's of battle, they had some sense that
they probably could win this battle. Uber ended up spending
(10:48):
two billion dollars in China over the course of two years.
Even for a giant like Uber, it was too much,
and they decided to bow out of China this past August. Lulu,
why was this such an important country for Uber to win? Well,
Um to think about the market size. It's just so significant,
such a great opportunity that Uber probably thinks they can't
(11:09):
afford to lose out. If you think about it, there
are seven cities in the world that limit purchases of automobiles.
China has six. The country already has a d eighty
four million vehicles, and if people all aspire to that
middle class lifestyle where every family has two cars, that
model is just not sustainable. Already. Beijing in Honjo have
(11:29):
some of the worst traffic jams in the world, so
the world simply can't support that many cars. Right, sharing
is a great solution, and probably Uber saw this as
one of the biggest opportunities outside of the US. Did
the home field advantage have anything to do with it?
I mean, do you think that the Chinese government made
sure the deity would win? Exactly? The road to China
is not smooth and all sunshine if you look at it.
(11:52):
It's been littered with the corpses of other foreign companies
like Microsoft and also Facebook. Regulatory hurdles have all has
been something that foreign tech companies have faced in China.
In this case, Uber definitely was facing local restrictions hurdles
at both the central and local government level, but that
(12:12):
was also true for DD. In fact, this is a
company that has been halted some thirty times um due
to local regulations, and it's also had to pay hundreds
of millions and fines to cover for the private car drivers.
And it's probably worth pointing out the deeds battles with
the government seemed to be getting worse right now. China's
three largest cities just proposal rule that would have huge
(12:33):
implications for DP. Yeah, that's actually right. Shanghai, Beijing, Shinjin
have all proposed draft rules that stipulate only drivers with
local residencies can be allowed to operate on the private
car hailing platforms. If that rule is past, it means
like in Shanghai, for example, only less than three percent
of the currently registered drivers are qualified and only about
(12:54):
twenty of the vehicle's meet the demand. So that could
be a huge blow TODD and lead to drop and
supply and rising costs. Do you think d D can
be successful in peacetime when it doesn't have in our
chenemy to fight well. I think they still face a
pretty steep task um for when they need to become profitable.
And then also they face all these regulatory hurdles that
(13:15):
are not clear yet. They need to be more attractive
to investors if they wanted to aim from an I
P O right, and that's already creating friction with both
riders and drivers. The war was good for everyone except
d D. I mean, we took some rides in an
uber and in the d D last week, and you know,
we talk a little bit about what we heard. People
(13:37):
are complaining that it does seem like UH fares have
gone up and driving for d D has become a
less lucrative gig exactly, and you know for Tronway, ultimately,
taxi is just the beginning of his empire that he envisions. Um,
what he really wants probably is much bigger. You mentioned
a few other services like buses, bike ship are basically
(14:01):
anything with a seat on it, not to mention driver
list technology. Those are all areas that you wants to
expand in. That's it for this week's Decrypted. Thanks for listening.
If you have an iPhone, be sure to subscribe to
the show on iTunes for any of your favorite podcast
apps out there. And while you're there, please take a
moment to rate and review our show and tell us
(14:22):
what you thought of today's podcast. Write to me on
Twitter at at brad Stone and I'm at lolu Ellen.
This episode was produced by aki Ito, Tara Zorovich, Magnus Hendrickson,
and Liz Smith, with help from Nita Malhotra Hora. Aaron
Black and Matt Burley assisted with recording. Alistair Barr and
Eric Newcomer recorded the English translations from our interviews with
(14:45):
Chungwei and Wang Gone. Alec McCabe as head of Bloomberg
Podcast And before we let you go, just a quick note.
In last week's episode on fab dot com, we said
that a private equity firm bought FAB for fifteen million,
but Fab was actually sold to pc H, which is
a manufacturing company. Despite that error, it's still a great
episode and if you haven't already, I hope they'll check
(15:07):
it out. We'll see you next week, yeah,
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