March 12, 2025 • 15 mins
Wall Street is always looking for an edge over the competition. But what if there was a giant source of overlooked alpha? Phil Pearlman, former Chief Behavioral Officer at the Bank of the Ozarks and founder of the Pearl Institute speaks with Barry Ritholtz about how the traders are seeking better returns by optimizing for personal health.
Each week, “At the Money” discusses an important topic in money management. From portfolio construction to taxes and cutting down on fees, join Barry Ritholtz to learn the best ways to put your money to work.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hey feeling good that I said around a neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Everyone on Wall Street is looking for an edge. We
deploy quant models, higher analysts, one various simulations, all to
gain the slightest advantage that might be worth a few
basis points over a year. But what if you were
overlooking a giant source of alpha. I'm Barry rid Holtson
(00:46):
on today's edition of At the Money. We're going to
discuss how Wall Street has been using personal health to
gain a competitive advantage. To help us understand all of
this and its implications for your portfolio, let's bring in
Phil Perlman. Previously, he served as executive editor at stock
Twitz and was chief behavioral Officer at the Bank of Jozarks.
(01:09):
Today he runs the Pearl Institute, focusing on personal health
and the process of making effective change. So Phil, let's
just start with a basic question. What is fitness alpha?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Phinnis, Alpha is a model of performance and we can
derive alpha in markets from so many different areas. And
you know, just as a very brief primer for those
who might not know, alpha is this idea of how
much we outperform.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
So if Our benchmark is the S and P five hundred.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
We're a money manager, and we make twenty five percent
in a year. When the market's up twenty percent, that's
five percent of alpha, and so forth if we're if
we're up fifteen percent, that's five percent of negative alpha
if the market's up twenty percent. And so where do
you get the alpha from? And you know, do you
get it from information? Do you get it from having
(02:04):
a certain model. There's different sources, and there's one source
that is just a very simple source of alpha that
nobody is talking about.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Nobody has ever talked about it.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
And it's basically the outperformance we derive from our health.
The healthier we get, the better we perform across multiple
areas of function.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
So give us a few examples of some of those
multiple functions that create an advantage in the financial marketplace.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Well, markets are a competitive endeavor, and we know from
years of research that health the better, the more healthy
we get, the better we perform across multiple areas of function,
included stress tolerance. Right, so the markets are stressful twenty
(02:59):
twenty two. Anybody who's involved with markets for years, think
of twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
For one, moment, and you know it was a stressful time.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
And bear markets occur periodically, I don't know every five
or six years, and so when we have bear markets
and we're able to tolerate stress more adaptively, our performance
will improve, not only stress tolerance, but emotional regulation and
emotional control. How we're able to control our emotions, how
(03:30):
we're able to cope with our emotions.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Do they affect us behaviorally?
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Do we go on tilt or do we remain rational
during volatile periods?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
This sounds like you're referring to fitness. Alpha helps you
make better decisions, especially in times of volatility.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Absolutely, And there are so many different areas. For example,
stamina and resilience. Right, money managers have pressure even during
bull markets because everybody's sort of chasing returns and that
is a stressor. So it's not just during periods of
volatility in bear markets. You get it in bull markets alike.
(04:15):
And our ability to bounce back. So, just to go
back to your other question, there's so many different areas,
and that's why I'm harping on it.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Resilience. We bounce back better.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
The healthier that we get, we recuperate faster, we're able
to stay focused longer long days. We could put in
long days after long days. Our charisma, our self confidence,
and the way we are perceived by others.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
You and I have spoken about this previously, and you
have mentioned that this has quietly become a thing on
Wall Street. More trading desks, more funds are internally discussing fitness. Alpha.
Explain a little bit about what's happening on the street.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Well, you know, there was a moment, you know, and
this goes back thirty some odd years, but there was
a moment when Tiger Woods won the Masters.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
He changed the game of.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Golf forever, because before Tiger Woods, none of the golfers
really thought about their physical health. And all of a sudden,
here comes a young golfer who's in better shape than
anybody else out there, and he's crushing the ball and
he is able to manage his emotional world, his stress,
(05:30):
and stay ice cold even with the greatest pressure on him.
And after Tiger Woods, now you go and you look
at the tour. Almost everybody is in incredible conditioning, and
so you're starting to really see something similar to that
happen on Wall Street, especially at the highest tiers and
(05:53):
in the hedge fund industry. I've had numerous clients who've
come to me with metabolic health problems with alcohol and
other substance problems, and they begin to get those under control,
and then all of a sudden, they have more energy,
They bounce back quicker, their resilience improves, and they're performing
(06:17):
better and feeling like it's a more sustainable thing than
being day to day and hour to hour.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
So let's talk about some of the areas of health
that you focus on. You touched on drinking, you touched
on metabolism, which I assume involves nutrition. What are the
areas that you can derive fitness alpha from.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Well, here's the thing about that, I'd like to keep
things really really simple. Okay, And if you go out there,
there's a thousand books and there's ten thousand hours of
podcasts focusing on health and well being these days, and
they get very very granular, and there's a lot of
debates and arguments, and you know, mitochondria and VO two max,
(07:03):
and there's a thousand buzzwords. I like to keep it very,
very simple, and from my point of view, there are
four elements of health that we can focus on, and
if we can just get a little bit better. We
don't have to get one percent better every day. We
could just get five percent better a year, and if
(07:24):
we do that year after year.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
And those four areas, those four.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Elements of good health are nutrition, what we put into
the only body that we are ever issued on this earth.
Body movement, which is exercise, which includes cardiovascular you know,
aerobic exercise and also anaerobic exercise or resistance training. It
(07:47):
also includes sleep and rest and how we allow our
bodies to heal over time, whether that's sleeping or whether
that's taking a day off or two if we're injured.
And social and family and love. And that's the fourth one.
It's a very surprising one when I mentioned that, but
(08:08):
huge alpha in a relationship and love.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Focus, sleep, nutrition, exercise, social, all right, so those are
the four big areas. So within those four areas, someone
listening to this, whether they're a trader or a fund manager,
or driving a truck or working in a retail store,
what do they need to do to generate that performance boost,
(08:35):
to generate that fitstness alpha in those four areas?
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Well, all you have to do is get a little
bit better at a time. All you have to do
is get incrementally better over time. You don't have to
try to blow the lights out. Hey, I'm going to
start exercising six times a day, I'm going to completely
change my diet. I'm going to do all these things.
You don't have to get super duper gung ho. And
(09:01):
I would say that for each person there is a
gateway drug in a good way, you know, not a
gateway bad drug, but a gateway good drug. There's a
place to start, and it really there's individual differences and
it's dependent on the person. I'll give you a few examples.
If you have somebody who really does not move their
(09:23):
body and they're gaining weight over the years, begin to
move your body, and that can be as simple as
just walking. Walking is an incredible thing. You get outside,
you get into the fresh air, maybe you turn notifications
off on your phone, and you just begin to get
the blood flowing and the body movement.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
For other people, hey, you might have people who love food,
who are good cooks.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Maybe their gateway drug is to say, hey, I'm going
to really begin this by focusing on my nutrition. And
you don't have to do anything fancy there. You could
keep it stupid simple. There too, and just start eating
real foods with very few ingredients and staying away from
ultraprocessed foods and staying away from foods that have a
(10:10):
lot of added sugar. The one other thing that I
thought of when you asked me that question was this
that I find that substance abuse and alcohol abuse is
very prominent in our culture, and extremely prominent among.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Professional market participants.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
And we know, especially as we age, that alcohol and
other substances affect our performance and affect our brains very
very significantly. And so if you could get a handle
on that, that would be another fantastic gateway.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
So let's say we all start moving a little more,
we start eating better, we cut the cigarettes and that
glass of wine with dinner. How does that show up
in our portfolios? What sort of advantages occrue to us?
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Well, it begins with executive functioning, and it begins with
decision making. And this is a direct relationship to the
ideas coming from behavioral economics, and this idea that we
are not always rational decision makers. And the better you know,
(11:25):
I always use I always. Whenever I hear the word rational,
I substitute the word wise. Right, So we are not
always wise decision makers. And we know that the average
human suffers from loss aversion, and we know that there's
anxiety related to losses especially, and so when we are
(11:46):
even incrementally improving our ability to make decisions, to make
wise decisions, that's really where we experience alpha, where we
make better decisions that affect their perform folio, that improve
our performance.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
And are there any fringe benefits to this besides just
improving our portfolios?
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Well, that's actually a beautiful question because I'm actually flipping
the primary use case. You know, when people talk about
getting healthier, they're not talking about improving your portfolio. They're
talking about extending your life and staying healthy for longer,
and improving your mood and improving your relationships and improving
(12:30):
your quality of life. And so really the fringe benefits
are just incredibly central, and some would argue primary. I mean,
let's say if you were not an investor or a
market participant and I was talking to you about this,
I would be making the same exact case related to, hey, well,
(12:50):
wouldn't you, like, you know, we're only here once, wouldn't
you like to stay healthier longer and so that you
can enjoy life for a longer period of time.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
So this sounds like this is not just for Wall
Street traders and fund managers. Fitness Alpha sounds like it
could apply to just about everybody.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
I built this model from my own experience, Barry. I
was not a healthy person, and I was kind of
faking it. Like I was performing well enough professionally that
I was getting by and I was making some money,
but I was not thriving. And I started to get
myself healthy and I started to experience this, Wow, I
(13:29):
have more energy.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I want to interrupt you because I want people to
realize back in the day, you were considerably heavier, You
were a big drinker. You were not in any sort
of shape other than round, round as of shape, but
you were, you know, you were struggling. Tell us a
little bit about that aha moment, and tell us what
you accomplished.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
You know, I'm like hair Club for men, remember that commercial,
the Hairclub for Men guy.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I used the product myself, so I bought the company.
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
I mean, I got myself healthy, and I was kind of,
you know, I was kind of faking it. I was
an executive within the financial services space, and I was
miserable traveling too much, drinking too much, not moving my body.
When I was twelve years old, fifteen years old, I
was an athlete, but I had gotten so far away
(14:23):
from who I was. You know, there's this idea in
Buddhism of enlightenment. This one great author once said that
enlightenment is nothing mysterious, It's really just rediscovering who you
always were. And so I felt like as I started
really getting healthy, getting my mind and body in shape,
and then I started really rediscovering who I was, getting
(14:45):
back to me, and lo and behold, I started performing
better across all aspects of my life.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
So, to wrap up, fitness, alpha is how Wall Street
finds yet another edge to enhance their performance. But it's
not just for Wall Street professionals. We sleep better, we
eat better, we move we have better social relationships. Not
only does that show up in our portfolios, but it
also shows up in extended lifespans and healthier for longer
(15:17):
as part of your alpha. I'm Barry Retolts and you're
listening to Bloomberg's at the Money, Hey feeling good?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Like I said, Ben in the Blue, are around a
neighborhood feeling blessed? Nevers On Sunday
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hey feeling good that I said around a neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Everyone on Wall Street is looking for an edge. We
deploy quant models, higher analysts, one various simulations, all to
gain the slightest advantage that might be worth a few
basis points over a year. But what if you were
overlooking a giant source of alpha. I'm Barry rid Holtson
(00:46):
on today's edition of At the Money. We're going to
discuss how Wall Street has been using personal health to
gain a competitive advantage. To help us understand all of
this and its implications for your portfolio, let's bring in
Phil Perlman. Previously, he served as executive editor at stock
Twitz and was chief behavioral Officer at the Bank of Jozarks.
(01:09):
Today he runs the Pearl Institute, focusing on personal health
and the process of making effective change. So Phil, let's
just start with a basic question. What is fitness alpha?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Phinnis, Alpha is a model of performance and we can
derive alpha in markets from so many different areas. And
you know, just as a very brief primer for those
who might not know, alpha is this idea of how
much we outperform.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
So if Our benchmark is the S and P five hundred.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
We're a money manager, and we make twenty five percent
in a year. When the market's up twenty percent, that's
five percent of alpha, and so forth if we're if
we're up fifteen percent, that's five percent of negative alpha
if the market's up twenty percent. And so where do
you get the alpha from? And you know, do you
get it from information? Do you get it from having
(02:04):
a certain model. There's different sources, and there's one source
that is just a very simple source of alpha that
nobody is talking about.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Nobody has ever talked about it.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
And it's basically the outperformance we derive from our health.
The healthier we get, the better we perform across multiple
areas of function.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
So give us a few examples of some of those
multiple functions that create an advantage in the financial marketplace.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Well, markets are a competitive endeavor, and we know from
years of research that health the better, the more healthy
we get, the better we perform across multiple areas of function,
included stress tolerance. Right, so the markets are stressful twenty
(02:59):
twenty two. Anybody who's involved with markets for years, think
of twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
For one, moment, and you know it was a stressful time.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
And bear markets occur periodically, I don't know every five
or six years, and so when we have bear markets
and we're able to tolerate stress more adaptively, our performance
will improve, not only stress tolerance, but emotional regulation and
emotional control. How we're able to control our emotions, how
(03:30):
we're able to cope with our emotions.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Do they affect us behaviorally?
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Do we go on tilt or do we remain rational
during volatile periods?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
This sounds like you're referring to fitness. Alpha helps you
make better decisions, especially in times of volatility.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Absolutely, And there are so many different areas. For example,
stamina and resilience. Right, money managers have pressure even during
bull markets because everybody's sort of chasing returns and that
is a stressor. So it's not just during periods of
volatility in bear markets. You get it in bull markets alike.
(04:15):
And our ability to bounce back. So, just to go
back to your other question, there's so many different areas,
and that's why I'm harping on it.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Resilience. We bounce back better.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
The healthier that we get, we recuperate faster, we're able
to stay focused longer long days. We could put in
long days after long days. Our charisma, our self confidence,
and the way we are perceived by others.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
You and I have spoken about this previously, and you
have mentioned that this has quietly become a thing on
Wall Street. More trading desks, more funds are internally discussing fitness. Alpha.
Explain a little bit about what's happening on the street.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Well, you know, there was a moment, you know, and
this goes back thirty some odd years, but there was
a moment when Tiger Woods won the Masters.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
He changed the game of.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Golf forever, because before Tiger Woods, none of the golfers
really thought about their physical health. And all of a sudden,
here comes a young golfer who's in better shape than
anybody else out there, and he's crushing the ball and
he is able to manage his emotional world, his stress,
(05:30):
and stay ice cold even with the greatest pressure on him.
And after Tiger Woods, now you go and you look
at the tour. Almost everybody is in incredible conditioning, and
so you're starting to really see something similar to that
happen on Wall Street, especially at the highest tiers and
(05:53):
in the hedge fund industry. I've had numerous clients who've
come to me with metabolic health problems with alcohol and
other substance problems, and they begin to get those under control,
and then all of a sudden, they have more energy,
They bounce back quicker, their resilience improves, and they're performing
(06:17):
better and feeling like it's a more sustainable thing than
being day to day and hour to hour.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
So let's talk about some of the areas of health
that you focus on. You touched on drinking, you touched
on metabolism, which I assume involves nutrition. What are the
areas that you can derive fitness alpha from.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Well, here's the thing about that, I'd like to keep
things really really simple. Okay, And if you go out there,
there's a thousand books and there's ten thousand hours of
podcasts focusing on health and well being these days, and
they get very very granular, and there's a lot of
debates and arguments, and you know, mitochondria and VO two max,
(07:03):
and there's a thousand buzzwords. I like to keep it very,
very simple, and from my point of view, there are
four elements of health that we can focus on, and
if we can just get a little bit better. We
don't have to get one percent better every day. We
could just get five percent better a year, and if
(07:24):
we do that year after year.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
And those four areas, those four.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Elements of good health are nutrition, what we put into
the only body that we are ever issued on this earth.
Body movement, which is exercise, which includes cardiovascular you know,
aerobic exercise and also anaerobic exercise or resistance training. It
(07:47):
also includes sleep and rest and how we allow our
bodies to heal over time, whether that's sleeping or whether
that's taking a day off or two if we're injured.
And social and family and love. And that's the fourth one.
It's a very surprising one when I mentioned that, but
(08:08):
huge alpha in a relationship and love.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Focus, sleep, nutrition, exercise, social, all right, so those are
the four big areas. So within those four areas, someone
listening to this, whether they're a trader or a fund manager,
or driving a truck or working in a retail store,
what do they need to do to generate that performance boost,
(08:35):
to generate that fitstness alpha in those four areas?
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Well, all you have to do is get a little
bit better at a time. All you have to do
is get incrementally better over time. You don't have to
try to blow the lights out. Hey, I'm going to
start exercising six times a day, I'm going to completely
change my diet. I'm going to do all these things.
You don't have to get super duper gung ho. And
(09:01):
I would say that for each person there is a
gateway drug in a good way, you know, not a
gateway bad drug, but a gateway good drug. There's a
place to start, and it really there's individual differences and
it's dependent on the person. I'll give you a few examples.
If you have somebody who really does not move their
(09:23):
body and they're gaining weight over the years, begin to
move your body, and that can be as simple as
just walking. Walking is an incredible thing. You get outside,
you get into the fresh air, maybe you turn notifications
off on your phone, and you just begin to get
the blood flowing and the body movement.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
For other people, hey, you might have people who love food,
who are good cooks.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Maybe their gateway drug is to say, hey, I'm going
to really begin this by focusing on my nutrition. And
you don't have to do anything fancy there. You could
keep it stupid simple. There too, and just start eating
real foods with very few ingredients and staying away from
ultraprocessed foods and staying away from foods that have a
(10:10):
lot of added sugar. The one other thing that I
thought of when you asked me that question was this
that I find that substance abuse and alcohol abuse is
very prominent in our culture, and extremely prominent among.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Professional market participants.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
And we know, especially as we age, that alcohol and
other substances affect our performance and affect our brains very
very significantly. And so if you could get a handle
on that, that would be another fantastic gateway.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
So let's say we all start moving a little more,
we start eating better, we cut the cigarettes and that
glass of wine with dinner. How does that show up
in our portfolios? What sort of advantages occrue to us?
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Well, it begins with executive functioning, and it begins with
decision making. And this is a direct relationship to the
ideas coming from behavioral economics, and this idea that we
are not always rational decision makers. And the better you know,
(11:25):
I always use I always. Whenever I hear the word rational,
I substitute the word wise. Right, So we are not
always wise decision makers. And we know that the average
human suffers from loss aversion, and we know that there's
anxiety related to losses especially, and so when we are
(11:46):
even incrementally improving our ability to make decisions, to make
wise decisions, that's really where we experience alpha, where we
make better decisions that affect their perform folio, that improve
our performance.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
And are there any fringe benefits to this besides just
improving our portfolios?
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Well, that's actually a beautiful question because I'm actually flipping
the primary use case. You know, when people talk about
getting healthier, they're not talking about improving your portfolio. They're
talking about extending your life and staying healthy for longer,
and improving your mood and improving your relationships and improving
(12:30):
your quality of life. And so really the fringe benefits
are just incredibly central, and some would argue primary. I mean,
let's say if you were not an investor or a
market participant and I was talking to you about this,
I would be making the same exact case related to, hey, well,
(12:50):
wouldn't you, like, you know, we're only here once, wouldn't
you like to stay healthier longer and so that you
can enjoy life for a longer period of time.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
So this sounds like this is not just for Wall
Street traders and fund managers. Fitness Alpha sounds like it
could apply to just about everybody.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
I built this model from my own experience, Barry. I
was not a healthy person, and I was kind of
faking it. Like I was performing well enough professionally that
I was getting by and I was making some money,
but I was not thriving. And I started to get
myself healthy and I started to experience this, Wow, I
(13:29):
have more energy.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I want to interrupt you because I want people to
realize back in the day, you were considerably heavier, You
were a big drinker. You were not in any sort
of shape other than round, round as of shape, but
you were, you know, you were struggling. Tell us a
little bit about that aha moment, and tell us what
you accomplished.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
You know, I'm like hair Club for men, remember that commercial,
the Hairclub for Men guy.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I used the product myself, so I bought the company.
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
I mean, I got myself healthy, and I was kind of,
you know, I was kind of faking it. I was
an executive within the financial services space, and I was
miserable traveling too much, drinking too much, not moving my body.
When I was twelve years old, fifteen years old, I
was an athlete, but I had gotten so far away
(14:23):
from who I was. You know, there's this idea in
Buddhism of enlightenment. This one great author once said that
enlightenment is nothing mysterious, It's really just rediscovering who you
always were. And so I felt like as I started
really getting healthy, getting my mind and body in shape,
and then I started really rediscovering who I was, getting
(14:45):
back to me, and lo and behold, I started performing
better across all aspects of my life.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
So, to wrap up, fitness, alpha is how Wall Street
finds yet another edge to enhance their performance. But it's
not just for Wall Street professionals. We sleep better, we
eat better, we move we have better social relationships. Not
only does that show up in our portfolios, but it
also shows up in extended lifespans and healthier for longer
(15:17):
as part of your alpha. I'm Barry Retolts and you're
listening to Bloomberg's at the Money, Hey feeling good?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Like I said, Ben in the Blue, are around a
neighborhood feeling blessed? Nevers On Sunday
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