July 31, 2025 • 15 mins
Somaliland, which proclaimed independence from Somalia in 1991, is willing to offer the US a military base at the entrance to the Red Sea and critical-minerals deals in its quest for international recognition as a sovereign state.
On this week’s episode - Bloomberg’s Simon Marks joins Jennifer Zabasajja to explain the history behind Somaliland and its independence claim, and whether this new plan to try and get US recognition will succeed.
For more stories from the region, subscribe to the Next Africa newsletter here
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
A breakaway region of East Africa is coreing the Trump
administration for full recognition.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
We have all ratios with United States, with Great Britain
and other countries, but now we hope that United States
may be the first to aggress somebody.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
That Somaliland has failed to gain international recognition as a
sovereign state since proclaiming independence in nineteen ninety one, but
now hopes its minerals and key strategic location could change
us minds.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Somaliland is located in a very strategic location. It has
eight hundred and fifty kilometeries of seashore in the gallof Alfailia,
so you can understand the strategic location at Pepra.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
On this episode of The Next Africa Podcast, we'll look
at why Somaliland has struggled to get international recognition and
whether this new approach could start to turn the tide.
I'm Jennifer's Abasaja and this is the Next Africa Podcast,
bringing you one story each week from the continent driving
the future of global growth with the context only Bloomberg
(01:14):
can provide. Joining us this week is our reporter at Large,
Simon Marx, who's been reporting on this story for Bloomberg
News and did the interview earlier this week. Simon, great
to have you back on the podcast. So before we
get into the discussion that you had with the president,
let's just talk maybe about the history of Somaliland and
(01:37):
how we actually got to these initial discussions that are
being had right now. Can you give us a bit
of history about when the region first tried to break
away from Somalia.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Somaliland in terms of its modern history, it's worth going
back to the nineteen eighties under the said bar regime
in Somalia. There was a heavy civil war that began
to escalate during that period, and eventually in nineteen ninety
one that led to the collapse of the Somali central
government and the declaration of independence from what they called
(02:13):
the Republic of Somaliland. And this is really a moment
in history when Somaliland broke away from Somalia and began
to run in a sort of self autonomous fashion.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
And you know, just from my brief reading on this,
there was quite a bit of international reaction back in
nineteen ninety one when this independence was claimed. Can you
talk about initially what we heard from the international community
about this move.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah, so initially in the early nineties, there was very
little endorsement from the international community, So the likes of
European states, the US and many others worldwide refused to
recognize Somaliland's independence. There's a few outliers, the Taiwanese have
more recently started to do a lot of business with
(03:07):
Somali Land, you know, in part because of their own
sort of ideology around there independence from China. But by
and large, there's been no one else that's been very
sympathetic to their declaration and their autonomy.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
And yet the independence has for the most part held
in the three decades or so since. Talk about the
relationship then between Somaliland, if you can, and Somalia and
what we've seen since nineteen ninety one between these two
independent states.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yes, So Somalia in the capital Mogadisha, you know, they've
rolled out this so called One Somalia policy where it
wants to keep all its regional states together under one nation.
There's several autonomously run regions in Somalia, including Puntland, Jubiland.
You know, Somaliland is another one. So Somalia is pretty
(04:07):
fearful that its state can literally crumble apart and split up,
factionalize all over the place, and the international community through peacekeepers,
un troops on the ground and other proxies, you know,
supporting the government in Mogadishu a or trying to keep
this country together post its colonial period when the Italians
(04:29):
and the British had control. But Somaliland, interestingly, unlike the
rest of Somalia, has remained very peaceful. The government has
quite successfully kept things together. They've held I think six
rounds now of elections since the early two thousands, and
so while no one's accepted its sort of sovereignty issues,
(04:51):
they've also quietly kind of been quite pleased at how
the government have organized elections and organized its state and
kept peace in a pretty turbulent region.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I wonder, Simon, as someone who's traveled to Somalia, not
many people have what do you attribute that to. Do
you think Somalia, as you were just describing, is it's
just sort of fearful that the region in and of
itself will collapse, and therefore they've been unable to have
peace like Somaliland. I mean, I wonder if you can
(05:24):
give us some insight based on what you saw on
the ground in Somalia.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah, I think. You know, Somalia since the collapse of
the government is in nineteen ninety one, has been through
such a huge amount. You know, there's been famine in
the early part of the nineties. Then you know, the
state has sort of fragmented. There's been the rise of
Islamists in the country, there's been civil war, and essentially
(05:53):
it's been a really hard place to govern. And as
a result, you have these various regions all seeking various
levels of autonomy. Some of them are completely autonomous and
are run independently from Mogadishu. And I think yeah, essentially,
for the people in power in Mogadishu, they see one
(06:16):
state gaining independence as something that could snowball and then
other states in the country could follow and they do
not want to see that happening.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Which brings me to the involvement. And I guess the
relationship that we've seen the US and other allies having
in this region. How significant is this for the US
and other allies that this region does not completely fall apart.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, very much.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
So.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
You know, the US themselves have a long history in Somalia.
There was a US led military operation in the early nineties.
That's most famously depicted by the movie Black Hawk and
the Battle for Margadishu in nineteen ninety three, where they
tried to disperse isnymists and militias from the capitol. And
(07:09):
you know, if we fast forward a little bit, you know,
the US are still based there today. They have troops
and drone operations all fighting the al Shabab movement, which
has gained a lot in territory in recent months. And yeah,
it's part of I think the US anti terrorist policies globally.
(07:31):
Any move obviously from al Shabab taking over would follow
suit in what we've seen more recently in Afghanistan and
Syria with isnamists coming to power.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
And stick with as Simon, when we come back, we're
going to talk more about the exclusive interview that you
had and also whether Somaliland's new approach might actually get
positive reception from the Trump administration. We'll be right back,
Welcome back today on the podcast, we're looking at Somaliland
(08:06):
and its new pitch to the US and the Trump
administration to try and get its independence recognized. Simon Marx
is joining US and had an interview with the President
from Somaliland. So, Simon, talk about the conversation you had
with the president and the offer and the pitch he's
making to the US.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yes. So, I recently interviewed President Abdur Rahman Muhammad Abdullahi.
He came to power in Somaliland during the last elections
at the end of twenty twenty four, and he sort
of came in with lots of grassroots support like other
leaders in the country. He's also strongly in favor of recognition. However,
(08:50):
he did set out his stalls by saying he needs
to calm things domestically. There is some opposition to the
government in Somaliland. So he's managed to bring in thousands
of young militia fighters into the regional security forces. And
then he also pledged to calm the rhetoric and engage
with Somalia, which has gone less well because he in
(09:13):
his interview said that the Somalis have actually started trying
to put down their own administration in Somalia, which has
caused some tensions. However, internationally he's been pretty canny. You know,
he's stepped back from beating the drum on recognition and
he's more focused now on just actual ties and being
(09:38):
a good player internationally with a whole range of countries,
whether it's the Emiratis, the United States, the Europeans, and
he sort of thinks that if he can playball be
useful in the areas of security and trade and assistance
with Red Sea issues, whether the Hooties are active, that
(10:01):
will in a way just become a sort of effeta
complee for the country that could lead them to recognition
down the road.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
And it's an interesting approach. And someone I was actually
communicating with online was pointing to the fact that we've
seen international relations really become transactional, right especially with this
new Trump administration, which the President was talking about this
offer potentially a minerals deal in exchange for security. How
(10:32):
would this go over with the Trump administration. I mean,
I wonder if you can get into some of the
recent actions we've seen in the region and whether or
not the president might be onto something.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, I think the president of Somali Land has seen
how the US are operating in Africa, in particular recently
in the Democratic Republic of Congo, where you know it's
sketched out with Congo and the M twenty three rebel
group a kind of peace deal where peace is then
(11:04):
given in return for business deals for US companies in
the space of minerals, et cetera. You know, that's how
they're looking at operating and they're trying similar things in
Libya and also in Sudan to less effect. You know,
they're very like entrenched conflicts. They're pretty complicated. But I
(11:26):
think you know, Somali then sees itself as offering a
lot potentially to the US. It's on the Red Sea.
They have pitched this idea of a military base for
the US, which I'm sure they're interested in, especially people
in the Department of Defense, and talks have been held
around that quite recently, and then just becoming a security partner.
(11:50):
The US are already in Djibouti, but there's a lot
of countries there. You know, the Chinese have a military
base right next to the American base. And so I
think Somaliland is quite attractive because you know, it's sort
of so to speak, you know, Virgin territory. You have
the Emiratis in Berbera, in the coastal city of Berbera,
who are also very close allies with the US, and
(12:12):
they have a very well established port run by deeply
world and access to the airport there for their own
military operations, So it kind of on paper, just makes
a lot of sense for the US, even though officially
they're still not recognizing some aarilands stated.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
And so then you know, you put your story out
earlier in the week. I wonder the US, of course,
as many of us know, is quite busy until this
deadline for tariffs comes about. But what has the response
been from the US? Are you expecting potentially a change
in position on their recognition of Somaliland?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
So efficiently, the State Department is not recognizing Samari lands.
They still stick by the sovereignty of Somalia and the
once Malia policy. However, they do admit that there has
been a lot of engagement through the embassy in Mogadishu
in Somalia with the authorities in Somaliland in the capital, Hargeisa.
(13:12):
I think the ambassador there has visited four times in
the first six months of the president's tenure, and there's
also been visits from the Department of Defense late last
year again discussing a security package. So within I guess
the administration there's a lot of interest. It's just whether
(13:32):
or not that gets onto President Trump's desk, and I
think the President also is hoping to visit Washington, d C.
And get sat down himself in front of the President.
That's his ultimate game because he knows in the end
that's where deals are made.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Which brings me to Somalia finally, not something I'm assuming
they they'll want to see. Have we heard anything from.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Them, Well, we did speak to their foreign minister who
just stuck to the well rehearsed line that Somalia has
a one Somalia policy and all of its regions, whether
they're running in a self autonomous way or not, a
part of Somalia. Quite simply, both Somaliland and Somalia have
(14:18):
said they'd be willing to defend their nations should anyone
declare independence or should Somalia try to take over Somali land.
Let's say so there is the potential for violence in
the end, so that's also a slight deterrent for big
business coming in.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
And you can read Simon's exclusive reporting on Bloomberg platforms.
Now here's a few other stories from the region we've
been following this week. Ghana Central Bank lowered its key
interest rate by the most on record after the pace
of inflation significantly slowed in the West African nation and
signal it would continue to ease if the dis inflation
(15:00):
trend continues. And former Credit Swiss chief executive officer to
John Tiam's options to run for president of Ivory Coast
this year appear to have been exhausted after United Nations
Agency declined to push for his vote to be reinstated.
It clears the way for eighty three year old President
Alissan Watara to extend his rule of the world's biggest
(15:24):
coco producer. And you can follow these stories across Bloomberg,
including the Next African Newsletter. We'll put a link to
that in the show notes. This program was produced by
Adrian Bradley and tiwa Adebayo. Don't forget to follow and
review this show wherever you usually get your podcasts. But
(15:44):
for now I'm Jennifer's Abasaja. Thanks as always for listening.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
A breakaway region of East Africa is coreing the Trump
administration for full recognition.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
We have all ratios with United States, with Great Britain
and other countries, but now we hope that United States
may be the first to aggress somebody.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
That Somaliland has failed to gain international recognition as a
sovereign state since proclaiming independence in nineteen ninety one, but
now hopes its minerals and key strategic location could change
us minds.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Somaliland is located in a very strategic location. It has
eight hundred and fifty kilometeries of seashore in the gallof Alfailia,
so you can understand the strategic location at Pepra.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
On this episode of The Next Africa Podcast, we'll look
at why Somaliland has struggled to get international recognition and
whether this new approach could start to turn the tide.
I'm Jennifer's Abasaja and this is the Next Africa Podcast,
bringing you one story each week from the continent driving
the future of global growth with the context only Bloomberg
(01:14):
can provide. Joining us this week is our reporter at Large,
Simon Marx, who's been reporting on this story for Bloomberg
News and did the interview earlier this week. Simon, great
to have you back on the podcast. So before we
get into the discussion that you had with the president,
let's just talk maybe about the history of Somaliland and
(01:37):
how we actually got to these initial discussions that are
being had right now. Can you give us a bit
of history about when the region first tried to break
away from Somalia.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Somaliland in terms of its modern history, it's worth going
back to the nineteen eighties under the said bar regime
in Somalia. There was a heavy civil war that began
to escalate during that period, and eventually in nineteen ninety
one that led to the collapse of the Somali central
government and the declaration of independence from what they called
(02:13):
the Republic of Somaliland. And this is really a moment
in history when Somaliland broke away from Somalia and began
to run in a sort of self autonomous fashion.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
And you know, just from my brief reading on this,
there was quite a bit of international reaction back in
nineteen ninety one when this independence was claimed. Can you
talk about initially what we heard from the international community
about this move.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah, so initially in the early nineties, there was very
little endorsement from the international community, So the likes of
European states, the US and many others worldwide refused to
recognize Somaliland's independence. There's a few outliers, the Taiwanese have
more recently started to do a lot of business with
(03:07):
Somali Land, you know, in part because of their own
sort of ideology around there independence from China. But by
and large, there's been no one else that's been very
sympathetic to their declaration and their autonomy.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
And yet the independence has for the most part held
in the three decades or so since. Talk about the
relationship then between Somaliland, if you can, and Somalia and
what we've seen since nineteen ninety one between these two
independent states.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yes, So Somalia in the capital Mogadisha, you know, they've
rolled out this so called One Somalia policy where it
wants to keep all its regional states together under one nation.
There's several autonomously run regions in Somalia, including Puntland, Jubiland.
You know, Somaliland is another one. So Somalia is pretty
(04:07):
fearful that its state can literally crumble apart and split up,
factionalize all over the place, and the international community through peacekeepers,
un troops on the ground and other proxies, you know,
supporting the government in Mogadishu a or trying to keep
this country together post its colonial period when the Italians
(04:29):
and the British had control. But Somaliland, interestingly, unlike the
rest of Somalia, has remained very peaceful. The government has
quite successfully kept things together. They've held I think six
rounds now of elections since the early two thousands, and
so while no one's accepted its sort of sovereignty issues,
(04:51):
they've also quietly kind of been quite pleased at how
the government have organized elections and organized its state and
kept peace in a pretty turbulent region.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I wonder, Simon, as someone who's traveled to Somalia, not
many people have what do you attribute that to. Do
you think Somalia, as you were just describing, is it's
just sort of fearful that the region in and of
itself will collapse, and therefore they've been unable to have
peace like Somaliland. I mean, I wonder if you can
(05:24):
give us some insight based on what you saw on
the ground in Somalia.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah, I think. You know, Somalia since the collapse of
the government is in nineteen ninety one, has been through
such a huge amount. You know, there's been famine in
the early part of the nineties. Then you know, the
state has sort of fragmented. There's been the rise of
Islamists in the country, there's been civil war, and essentially
(05:53):
it's been a really hard place to govern. And as
a result, you have these various regions all seeking various
levels of autonomy. Some of them are completely autonomous and
are run independently from Mogadishu. And I think yeah, essentially,
for the people in power in Mogadishu, they see one
(06:16):
state gaining independence as something that could snowball and then
other states in the country could follow and they do
not want to see that happening.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Which brings me to the involvement. And I guess the
relationship that we've seen the US and other allies having
in this region. How significant is this for the US
and other allies that this region does not completely fall apart.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, very much.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
So.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
You know, the US themselves have a long history in Somalia.
There was a US led military operation in the early nineties.
That's most famously depicted by the movie Black Hawk and
the Battle for Margadishu in nineteen ninety three, where they
tried to disperse isnymists and militias from the capitol. And
(07:09):
you know, if we fast forward a little bit, you know,
the US are still based there today. They have troops
and drone operations all fighting the al Shabab movement, which
has gained a lot in territory in recent months. And yeah,
it's part of I think the US anti terrorist policies globally.
(07:31):
Any move obviously from al Shabab taking over would follow
suit in what we've seen more recently in Afghanistan and
Syria with isnamists coming to power.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
And stick with as Simon, when we come back, we're
going to talk more about the exclusive interview that you
had and also whether Somaliland's new approach might actually get
positive reception from the Trump administration. We'll be right back,
Welcome back today on the podcast, we're looking at Somaliland
(08:06):
and its new pitch to the US and the Trump
administration to try and get its independence recognized. Simon Marx
is joining US and had an interview with the President
from Somaliland. So, Simon, talk about the conversation you had
with the president and the offer and the pitch he's
making to the US.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yes. So, I recently interviewed President Abdur Rahman Muhammad Abdullahi.
He came to power in Somaliland during the last elections
at the end of twenty twenty four, and he sort
of came in with lots of grassroots support like other
leaders in the country. He's also strongly in favor of recognition. However,
(08:50):
he did set out his stalls by saying he needs
to calm things domestically. There is some opposition to the
government in Somaliland. So he's managed to bring in thousands
of young militia fighters into the regional security forces. And
then he also pledged to calm the rhetoric and engage
with Somalia, which has gone less well because he in
(09:13):
his interview said that the Somalis have actually started trying
to put down their own administration in Somalia, which has
caused some tensions. However, internationally he's been pretty canny. You know,
he's stepped back from beating the drum on recognition and
he's more focused now on just actual ties and being
(09:38):
a good player internationally with a whole range of countries,
whether it's the Emiratis, the United States, the Europeans, and
he sort of thinks that if he can playball be
useful in the areas of security and trade and assistance
with Red Sea issues, whether the Hooties are active, that
(10:01):
will in a way just become a sort of effeta
complee for the country that could lead them to recognition
down the road.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
And it's an interesting approach. And someone I was actually
communicating with online was pointing to the fact that we've
seen international relations really become transactional, right especially with this
new Trump administration, which the President was talking about this
offer potentially a minerals deal in exchange for security. How
(10:32):
would this go over with the Trump administration. I mean,
I wonder if you can get into some of the
recent actions we've seen in the region and whether or
not the president might be onto something.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, I think the president of Somali Land has seen
how the US are operating in Africa, in particular recently
in the Democratic Republic of Congo, where you know it's
sketched out with Congo and the M twenty three rebel
group a kind of peace deal where peace is then
(11:04):
given in return for business deals for US companies in
the space of minerals, et cetera. You know, that's how
they're looking at operating and they're trying similar things in
Libya and also in Sudan to less effect. You know,
they're very like entrenched conflicts. They're pretty complicated. But I
(11:26):
think you know, Somali then sees itself as offering a
lot potentially to the US. It's on the Red Sea.
They have pitched this idea of a military base for
the US, which I'm sure they're interested in, especially people
in the Department of Defense, and talks have been held
around that quite recently, and then just becoming a security partner.
(11:50):
The US are already in Djibouti, but there's a lot
of countries there. You know, the Chinese have a military
base right next to the American base. And so I
think Somaliland is quite attractive because you know, it's sort
of so to speak, you know, Virgin territory. You have
the Emiratis in Berbera, in the coastal city of Berbera,
who are also very close allies with the US, and
(12:12):
they have a very well established port run by deeply
world and access to the airport there for their own
military operations, So it kind of on paper, just makes
a lot of sense for the US, even though officially
they're still not recognizing some aarilands stated.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
And so then you know, you put your story out
earlier in the week. I wonder the US, of course,
as many of us know, is quite busy until this
deadline for tariffs comes about. But what has the response
been from the US? Are you expecting potentially a change
in position on their recognition of Somaliland?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
So efficiently, the State Department is not recognizing Samari lands.
They still stick by the sovereignty of Somalia and the
once Malia policy. However, they do admit that there has
been a lot of engagement through the embassy in Mogadishu
in Somalia with the authorities in Somaliland in the capital, Hargeisa.
(13:12):
I think the ambassador there has visited four times in
the first six months of the president's tenure, and there's
also been visits from the Department of Defense late last
year again discussing a security package. So within I guess
the administration there's a lot of interest. It's just whether
(13:32):
or not that gets onto President Trump's desk, and I
think the President also is hoping to visit Washington, d C.
And get sat down himself in front of the President.
That's his ultimate game because he knows in the end
that's where deals are made.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Which brings me to Somalia finally, not something I'm assuming
they they'll want to see. Have we heard anything from.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Them, Well, we did speak to their foreign minister who
just stuck to the well rehearsed line that Somalia has
a one Somalia policy and all of its regions, whether
they're running in a self autonomous way or not, a
part of Somalia. Quite simply, both Somaliland and Somalia have
(14:18):
said they'd be willing to defend their nations should anyone
declare independence or should Somalia try to take over Somali land.
Let's say so there is the potential for violence in
the end, so that's also a slight deterrent for big
business coming in.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
And you can read Simon's exclusive reporting on Bloomberg platforms.
Now here's a few other stories from the region we've
been following this week. Ghana Central Bank lowered its key
interest rate by the most on record after the pace
of inflation significantly slowed in the West African nation and
signal it would continue to ease if the dis inflation
(15:00):
trend continues. And former Credit Swiss chief executive officer to
John Tiam's options to run for president of Ivory Coast
this year appear to have been exhausted after United Nations
Agency declined to push for his vote to be reinstated.
It clears the way for eighty three year old President
Alissan Watara to extend his rule of the world's biggest
(15:24):
coco producer. And you can follow these stories across Bloomberg,
including the Next African Newsletter. We'll put a link to
that in the show notes. This program was produced by
Adrian Bradley and tiwa Adebayo. Don't forget to follow and
review this show wherever you usually get your podcasts. But
(15:44):
for now I'm Jennifer's Abasaja. Thanks as always for listening.
Host
Jennifer Zabasajja
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