July 25, 2024 • 17 mins
It may have taken an intervention from a Hollywood star - but the Michelin Guide is slowly starting to recognise the rise of African cuisine in the fancy world of fine dining.
Jennifer Zabasajja leaves the Johannesburg studio to visit Akoko - a West African restaurant hitting the big time in London’s West End, and finds out who has more power: Will Poutler or the Michelin Guide.
Plus Bloomberg’s food editor Kate Krader tells Jennifer why African restaurants are suddenly having a moment.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
So this week we are leaving our South African studio
for the streets of London to talk about African gastronomy.
From the UK capital to New York and even New Orleans,
African cuisines seem to be a hot topic.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I believe that it's time now for us to showcase
West African food on a higher end and on a
fine dining set in in London. I think it's a
gap in the market that hasn't been tackled or hasn't
been a deer too yet.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
So the time has come for African cuisine to shine
to the world how African cuisines went from casual to
high end and how African top chefs around the world
can capitalize on this success. I'm Jennifer's Abasaga and this
is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one story each
(00:56):
week from the continent driving the future of global growth
with the context only Bloomberg can provide. Aji Akokomi is
one of the hottest restaurant tours in London. His fine
dining tasting menu at A Coco has become one of
the hardest to get reservations in London, thanks in part
(01:18):
to the Hollywood actor and star of the hit restaurant
drama The Bear. His name is Will Poulter.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
One of the food cultures that I think is massively
underrepresented at the FI dining level is food of African origin.
And the best restaurant I've beenc recently is a restaurant
called A Coco in London, and it was recently overlooked
by Michelan, which I think is a great a great shame.
It's a massive oversight of food of African origin and
black chefs in general.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
But A Coco deserves a star.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Poulter called out the world famous Michelin Guide for failing
to recognize restaurants serving African cuisine, and now the guide
seems to have listened. A Coco has just received the
coveted Michelin Star, one of a vanishingly small number awarded
to restaurants headed by black chefs anywhere in the world.
So I went to meet Ahi in his restaurant just
(02:04):
off London's world famous retail strip Oxford Street.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
We started to think about a restaurant about seven years ago.
The journey has been from not being able to get
land lots of who would want a westercona restaurant in
the property. Was that an issue that was an issue
that was a big issue. And also in not funding whatsoever.
It's actually really hard to get funding for restaurants at all.
(02:32):
People would be looking for a lot of experience and
also cuses where they were sure that he would do
well and they hadn't heard of Westfteron cuising before. It
was my first time and business, so it was just
a very quick no. But then I persevered and pretty
much thought that I was a gap in the market.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Can you talk about why fine dining for the West
African food scene was so import to you? Because n I
know African food too. You know there's street food, right,
there's smaller restaurants, there's parts of town that probably have
a lot of mom and pop type shops. But why
was fine dining so important for you to get into
for this cuisine.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I worked in it with people who had the spending
power to go it out and have really good experience,
and I felt that West of can food had not
been represented in that manner or perhaps colleagues would ask me, oh,
I would like to try something African. So the only
place I could do was to take them home, cook
(03:35):
for them and enjoyed, and they don't ask me where
can we have this?
Speaker 5 (03:38):
We can I buy this.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
And so talk to us a little bit about the
foods and the tastes and the spices that you use
here that are distinct to a cocoa.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
So the food West of can food pretty much is
that sort of deep umami flavor, smoke, spices and also
the big bowled vibrant flavor.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
We now believe that to do it here.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
We then have our three pillars that we use smoke,
umami and spices, and so we carefully source this beautiful
the aromatic spices from Africa and also the wood really
that we used to smell the food is from Africa,
an exceptional and British produce using the West Africa and
(04:28):
creative techniques to create dishes.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
You import from the continent.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
Yes, yeah, because for instance, we used the Namibian wood. Wow.
I remember the first that we saw still that we
started to burn it.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
It smell, it reminded me of home and it has
done flavor that it adds into the dishes.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Really, I wanted to ask you about the tasting menu
format because more and more chefs it seems are reverting
to that, why did you decide to do that with
a cocoa?
Speaker 1 (04:56):
So we started the restaurant as a tasting menu restaurant,
and mainly because we knew that people would not be
familiar with the dishes with the flavors, and it would
be difficult for them to.
Speaker 5 (05:09):
Choose and what's that, what's the ice cream? What is
Genla flights and all of that.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
We felt that it was important for us to walk
them through a journey and giving them a menu where.
Speaker 5 (05:21):
Would then explain the inspiration.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
The flavors and where, and it felt a lot more
like an experience.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
So it was.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Deliberate and then the putting together texting men to make
sure that we pretty much that could toll from the
eighteen countries in West Africa and the flavors and also
the dishes that are a coppler in all of these
eighteen countries and exper instance genoph It's pretople much have
main dish there pretty much the last course of the
(05:50):
Savior before we then go into the desserts.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Having to import from Africa. Obviously you're bringing it into
a new country, a new continent. Does that then add
up though to more and more costs for the restaurant.
Is that part of the reason why the prices are higher.
How have you factored that into your price point?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
It adds a bit, but thankfully not so much, and
I think the reason being it's one the popularity of
Afghan presenting the UK means that good supply chains to
supply us good spices, so we'll always have good supply.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
Thankful, We're happy for that.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
And they would also the plethora of South African restaurants,
school restaurants for instance, so there's already that good supply chain,
there was.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Just people to tap into it. And then it's using.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Wood at all, really is a little bit more expensive,
So it adds a bit and would let people know
that that flavor that would beautiful would have pivo is
from Camadorian wood is from the BBA is from South Africa,
which is dried by the sun, imparting that flavor.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Many people might have heard the clip from Will the
actor Porter, who was obviously touting black chefs and restaurants.
I wonder if that had an effect on the popularity
in the bandwagon that you're talking about, or what was
the real turning point for this.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Restaurant I'll say yes that that was the magic moment.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
We surprised, We were.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Very surprised, and it went viral and we fought we
there were videos and lots of Americans actually filming themselves
on the up in on the train coming to London
to come and experience at Coco.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
How lucky can we be?
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I think that even allowed micheally, that even allowed a
lots of lot of people to really notice us. And
that was a turning point in the in our restaurant
really and we actually experienced a lot of people last
year with finger We're busy. Now last year we've always
been rather busy, but from that we were packed with
(07:54):
lots of a waited list.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
And what about the Michelin Star. You have the sign
side up the restaurant. What did that do for the
same effects?
Speaker 5 (08:04):
Will Pulsa had the same? Prey much powerful? Will polter
like a Michelin Paulota wonderful? Metic is wonderful? Thank you? Yes, yes,
pen want the same effects.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
And in a moment we'll have more from Ahi, including
whether the Michelin star might now mean prices could rise.
Plus Bloomberg's food editor Kate Crater on the rise of
African fine dining and how Rosie the Future is looking
for food from all across the continent. Welcome back today,
we are talking fine dining and back at a Coco,
(08:39):
I asked Ahi what the impact of the Michelin Star
will be on his restaurant.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
We've not increased the price, but what we've done since then,
it's been very busy and it's been launched, and what
we've been doing intern the lead is to ensure that
we'll retain the star, is to ensure that we have
better every day.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
And so it's been so much work.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
What is it about the food, What is it about
the space, what is it about the service? So it's
just all of our work comings together, working every day
to actually be a real proper Micheline Sat restaurant. And
when we are confident, when we've done all the things
(09:21):
in a new place, new menal is on cards, which
we're working on once there might increase the paceable. For now,
I just want our plethora customers to truly enjoy that
mission in experience.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
And outside of giving people a taste of your country,
your culture, what do you see this doing for the continent,
for the African continent, for the African people. I mean,
is there something in introducing people to this cuisine that
you think will then help eventually benefit your country.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
And it's doing wonders and I think the plethora of
people from the continent have actually come as well. It's
just for them to see a blank business doing well firstly,
and also to see wonderful restaurants celebrating West Souftern cuisine.
Proud list for them is actually knowing that they could
(10:13):
make it. Now you can actually be a chef and
then open up a restaurant somewhere in Lordn America and
very successful.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
But also it's helping a supply chain.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Really there's a lot of good drive towroduce that can
travel that we're not buying from the continent. The suppliers
from there, little farmers from there that sending the goods
to the UK and then we actually recommend them to
other restaurants, your creators as.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Well, the staff that you bring on just because we're
listening to the staff, yes, not everybody, I assume it's
from West Africa, right, how do you bring together the
right mix of people who know how to get the
flavors and the food right and spot on to what
it is that you remember about home.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
And that's such an important question because we are a
West souftern restaurant in London, and then we wanted our
team to pretty much be very diverse.
Speaker 5 (11:06):
We want people from all.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Backgrounds from anywhere to pretty much enjoy our food but
also the cooking. So we have plethora of CBS sometime
from Japan, something from France. It's that hospitality, is that
friendly net come be part of us and learn about
our cusine, learn about our culture and.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
None of that. And so that's a vibe of a cocoa.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
So could this be a special moment for African food?
Kate creator Bloomberg's food editor, is joining me now to
talk all through it. So, Kate, thanks so much for
being on the podcast. Really great to get you on
anyone who's traveled throughout the world. Obviously, we know there's
a lot of African cuisines that are known as more
street food or sort of mom and pop shops. But
what do you make, Kate of this increased interest really
(11:57):
with African cuisine and fine dining.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
To me, it's a fantastic thing to see and it's
something I didn't see so much in New York, where
I've spent most of my professional career as a food
writer and editor. So it's terrific to come here to London.
And even in the time that I've been here, I've
seen a sort of explosion in African in fine dining
concepts and even just ambitious chefs and operators who have
(12:22):
sort of ambitious plans for African food. One reason that
you're seeing so much of it in London is that
people are looking for authentic experiences, and there's also just
a sense that you want to see what's happening around
the world in cuisines that you're not familiar with, and
people are certainly not familiar enough with African food. They
haven't taken it. That's seriously, especially in the realm of
(12:45):
find dining or something beyond what you would eat after
church or on a high street that wouldn't cost more
than ten pounds for a plate or a buffet meal.
So I think, for one thing, to walk into a
restaurant that's as lovely as a cocoa is and have
a trendscendent experience that's really immersive, To use African artisans
to make plates, to have a sense of just how beautiful.
(13:08):
Some of these dishes can be not just that they're delicious,
but that they look really lovely. It's just a singular
experience and something that people are willing to spend a
lot of money on. Right now, let's do something that's
like nothing else we get to do or we have done.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Right, it's like an experience. They're paying for the experience there.
We heard Ahi talk about just how significant getting that
Michelin star was for a cocoa. But considering the difficult
time restaurants have had over the past few years, does
it actually make a difference to the bottom line when
they do receive an accolade like this, like the Michelin Star,
does it still have the same significance that it had
(13:45):
decades ago.
Speaker 6 (13:47):
That's an excellent question. Some people will tell you that
Michelin's become a bit wider down. They've been definitely expanding
and now they're in places like Colorado and in Orlando, Florida,
which is better known as being disney World, which is
not a place where you think you're going to go
for Michelin starred food. No matter what, it's an accolade
(14:07):
and it's great to have and a shiny star will
definitely attract diners. I don't know if you know people,
but I definitely know people who scan the latest Michelin
ratings and say, now I know I want to go here.
You know, it's like I guess there's like health ratings
like A B and C. Like if you have Michelin Star,
no matter what, it's like a plus plus and then
(14:27):
especially if you have more than one. And there's been
such a lack of Michelin Stars given to black chefs
in general or places run by black chefs, and certainly
African restaurants in particular. Last August, we did a great
story about the lack of black chefs in Michelin starred
restaurants and there were only six as of last August
(14:51):
twenty twenty three, and now there's already a couple more.
I know, it's crazy, sort of it's validation, right. I
think it's good internally. It's good for people to feel
great about what they're doing and like they're being seen,
and they are being seen because people do still pay
attention to michel And.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Do you think, then, Kate, does that sort of mean
will continue to see more African fine dining restaurants open up? Globally.
What sort of impact do you think it makes more
broadly to the cuisine.
Speaker 6 (15:19):
I love to think that it's going to you know,
it's validation and it means that more restaurants will do
more ambitious menus and charge more money for it. There's
a restaurant called Chisharu that started out in Brixton as
a sort of pop up and the chef Jokie Bacare.
When she first started in Brixton in literally a food hall,
(15:40):
I think her dinner menu was forty five pounds for
a couple courses. Now she's moved to Covent Garden to
much fancier trappings and her menu cost ninety five pounds
for a dinner. And so that's the kind of movement
where I think chefs and operators can say we're not
(16:01):
afraid to charge more money because this is how much
our food costs to produce and it's worth it. There
shouldn't be a stigma attached to African food that it
should be cheap, because people primarily know it is street food.
It can be a food that can be super indulgent
and make you really make you feel like, yes, I
want to spend one hundred pounds or almost one hundred
pounds to eat this food, and I can't wait to
(16:23):
do it again.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Thanks so much to Kate Crator, and thank you also
to Ahi Akokomi, the founder of A Coco, for inviting
me into his now world famous restaurant. Whether more African
restaurants are awarded with a coveted Michelin star or not,
the recent recognition is clearly giving the cuisine and the
cooks behind it it's long overdue spotlight in many markets,
(16:47):
expanding the palettes of those diners new to African cuisines
and those just looking to indulge in a familiar taste.
This program was produced Adrian Bradley. If you like the episode,
don't forget to comment and subscribe. Wherever you are listening
to this podcast, I'm Jennifer's Abasoga. Thanks as always for
(17:09):
listening
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
So this week we are leaving our South African studio
for the streets of London to talk about African gastronomy.
From the UK capital to New York and even New Orleans,
African cuisines seem to be a hot topic.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I believe that it's time now for us to showcase
West African food on a higher end and on a
fine dining set in in London. I think it's a
gap in the market that hasn't been tackled or hasn't
been a deer too yet.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
So the time has come for African cuisine to shine
to the world how African cuisines went from casual to
high end and how African top chefs around the world
can capitalize on this success. I'm Jennifer's Abasaga and this
is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one story each
(00:56):
week from the continent driving the future of global growth
with the context only Bloomberg can provide. Aji Akokomi is
one of the hottest restaurant tours in London. His fine
dining tasting menu at A Coco has become one of
the hardest to get reservations in London, thanks in part
(01:18):
to the Hollywood actor and star of the hit restaurant
drama The Bear. His name is Will Poulter.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
One of the food cultures that I think is massively
underrepresented at the FI dining level is food of African origin.
And the best restaurant I've beenc recently is a restaurant
called A Coco in London, and it was recently overlooked
by Michelan, which I think is a great a great shame.
It's a massive oversight of food of African origin and
black chefs in general.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
But A Coco deserves a star.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Poulter called out the world famous Michelin Guide for failing
to recognize restaurants serving African cuisine, and now the guide
seems to have listened. A Coco has just received the
coveted Michelin Star, one of a vanishingly small number awarded
to restaurants headed by black chefs anywhere in the world.
So I went to meet Ahi in his restaurant just
(02:04):
off London's world famous retail strip Oxford Street.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
We started to think about a restaurant about seven years ago.
The journey has been from not being able to get
land lots of who would want a westercona restaurant in
the property. Was that an issue that was an issue
that was a big issue. And also in not funding whatsoever.
It's actually really hard to get funding for restaurants at all.
(02:32):
People would be looking for a lot of experience and
also cuses where they were sure that he would do
well and they hadn't heard of Westfteron cuising before. It
was my first time and business, so it was just
a very quick no. But then I persevered and pretty
much thought that I was a gap in the market.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Can you talk about why fine dining for the West
African food scene was so import to you? Because n I
know African food too. You know there's street food, right,
there's smaller restaurants, there's parts of town that probably have
a lot of mom and pop type shops. But why
was fine dining so important for you to get into
for this cuisine.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I worked in it with people who had the spending
power to go it out and have really good experience,
and I felt that West of can food had not
been represented in that manner or perhaps colleagues would ask me, oh,
I would like to try something African. So the only
place I could do was to take them home, cook
(03:35):
for them and enjoyed, and they don't ask me where
can we have this?
Speaker 5 (03:38):
We can I buy this.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
And so talk to us a little bit about the
foods and the tastes and the spices that you use
here that are distinct to a cocoa.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
So the food West of can food pretty much is
that sort of deep umami flavor, smoke, spices and also
the big bowled vibrant flavor.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
We now believe that to do it here.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
We then have our three pillars that we use smoke,
umami and spices, and so we carefully source this beautiful
the aromatic spices from Africa and also the wood really
that we used to smell the food is from Africa,
an exceptional and British produce using the West Africa and
(04:28):
creative techniques to create dishes.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
You import from the continent.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
Yes, yeah, because for instance, we used the Namibian wood. Wow.
I remember the first that we saw still that we
started to burn it.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
It smell, it reminded me of home and it has
done flavor that it adds into the dishes.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Really, I wanted to ask you about the tasting menu
format because more and more chefs it seems are reverting
to that, why did you decide to do that with
a cocoa?
Speaker 1 (04:56):
So we started the restaurant as a tasting menu restaurant,
and mainly because we knew that people would not be
familiar with the dishes with the flavors, and it would
be difficult for them to.
Speaker 5 (05:09):
Choose and what's that, what's the ice cream? What is
Genla flights and all of that.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
We felt that it was important for us to walk
them through a journey and giving them a menu where.
Speaker 5 (05:21):
Would then explain the inspiration.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
The flavors and where, and it felt a lot more
like an experience.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
So it was.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Deliberate and then the putting together texting men to make
sure that we pretty much that could toll from the
eighteen countries in West Africa and the flavors and also
the dishes that are a coppler in all of these
eighteen countries and exper instance genoph It's pretople much have
main dish there pretty much the last course of the
(05:50):
Savior before we then go into the desserts.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Having to import from Africa. Obviously you're bringing it into
a new country, a new continent. Does that then add
up though to more and more costs for the restaurant.
Is that part of the reason why the prices are higher.
How have you factored that into your price point?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
It adds a bit, but thankfully not so much, and
I think the reason being it's one the popularity of
Afghan presenting the UK means that good supply chains to
supply us good spices, so we'll always have good supply.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
Thankful, We're happy for that.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
And they would also the plethora of South African restaurants,
school restaurants for instance, so there's already that good supply chain,
there was.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Just people to tap into it. And then it's using.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Wood at all, really is a little bit more expensive,
So it adds a bit and would let people know
that that flavor that would beautiful would have pivo is
from Camadorian wood is from the BBA is from South Africa,
which is dried by the sun, imparting that flavor.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Many people might have heard the clip from Will the
actor Porter, who was obviously touting black chefs and restaurants.
I wonder if that had an effect on the popularity
in the bandwagon that you're talking about, or what was
the real turning point for this.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Restaurant I'll say yes that that was the magic moment.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
We surprised, We were.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Very surprised, and it went viral and we fought we
there were videos and lots of Americans actually filming themselves
on the up in on the train coming to London
to come and experience at Coco.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
How lucky can we be?
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I think that even allowed micheally, that even allowed a
lots of lot of people to really notice us. And
that was a turning point in the in our restaurant
really and we actually experienced a lot of people last
year with finger We're busy. Now last year we've always
been rather busy, but from that we were packed with
(07:54):
lots of a waited list.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
And what about the Michelin Star. You have the sign
side up the restaurant. What did that do for the
same effects?
Speaker 5 (08:04):
Will Pulsa had the same? Prey much powerful? Will polter
like a Michelin Paulota wonderful? Metic is wonderful? Thank you? Yes, yes,
pen want the same effects.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
And in a moment we'll have more from Ahi, including
whether the Michelin star might now mean prices could rise.
Plus Bloomberg's food editor Kate Crater on the rise of
African fine dining and how Rosie the Future is looking
for food from all across the continent. Welcome back today,
we are talking fine dining and back at a Coco,
(08:39):
I asked Ahi what the impact of the Michelin Star
will be on his restaurant.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
We've not increased the price, but what we've done since then,
it's been very busy and it's been launched, and what
we've been doing intern the lead is to ensure that
we'll retain the star, is to ensure that we have
better every day.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
And so it's been so much work.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
What is it about the food, What is it about
the space, what is it about the service? So it's
just all of our work comings together, working every day
to actually be a real proper Micheline Sat restaurant. And
when we are confident, when we've done all the things
(09:21):
in a new place, new menal is on cards, which
we're working on once there might increase the paceable. For now,
I just want our plethora customers to truly enjoy that
mission in experience.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
And outside of giving people a taste of your country,
your culture, what do you see this doing for the continent,
for the African continent, for the African people. I mean,
is there something in introducing people to this cuisine that
you think will then help eventually benefit your country.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
And it's doing wonders and I think the plethora of
people from the continent have actually come as well. It's
just for them to see a blank business doing well firstly,
and also to see wonderful restaurants celebrating West Souftern cuisine.
Proud list for them is actually knowing that they could
(10:13):
make it. Now you can actually be a chef and
then open up a restaurant somewhere in Lordn America and
very successful.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
But also it's helping a supply chain.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Really there's a lot of good drive towroduce that can
travel that we're not buying from the continent. The suppliers
from there, little farmers from there that sending the goods
to the UK and then we actually recommend them to
other restaurants, your creators as.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Well, the staff that you bring on just because we're
listening to the staff, yes, not everybody, I assume it's
from West Africa, right, how do you bring together the
right mix of people who know how to get the
flavors and the food right and spot on to what
it is that you remember about home.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
And that's such an important question because we are a
West souftern restaurant in London, and then we wanted our
team to pretty much be very diverse.
Speaker 5 (11:06):
We want people from all.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Backgrounds from anywhere to pretty much enjoy our food but
also the cooking. So we have plethora of CBS sometime
from Japan, something from France. It's that hospitality, is that
friendly net come be part of us and learn about
our cusine, learn about our culture and.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
None of that. And so that's a vibe of a cocoa.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
So could this be a special moment for African food?
Kate creator Bloomberg's food editor, is joining me now to
talk all through it. So, Kate, thanks so much for
being on the podcast. Really great to get you on
anyone who's traveled throughout the world. Obviously, we know there's
a lot of African cuisines that are known as more
street food or sort of mom and pop shops. But
what do you make, Kate of this increased interest really
(11:57):
with African cuisine and fine dining.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
To me, it's a fantastic thing to see and it's
something I didn't see so much in New York, where
I've spent most of my professional career as a food
writer and editor. So it's terrific to come here to London.
And even in the time that I've been here, I've
seen a sort of explosion in African in fine dining
concepts and even just ambitious chefs and operators who have
(12:22):
sort of ambitious plans for African food. One reason that
you're seeing so much of it in London is that
people are looking for authentic experiences, and there's also just
a sense that you want to see what's happening around
the world in cuisines that you're not familiar with, and
people are certainly not familiar enough with African food. They
haven't taken it. That's seriously, especially in the realm of
(12:45):
find dining or something beyond what you would eat after
church or on a high street that wouldn't cost more
than ten pounds for a plate or a buffet meal.
So I think, for one thing, to walk into a
restaurant that's as lovely as a cocoa is and have
a trendscendent experience that's really immersive, To use African artisans
to make plates, to have a sense of just how beautiful.
(13:08):
Some of these dishes can be not just that they're delicious,
but that they look really lovely. It's just a singular
experience and something that people are willing to spend a
lot of money on. Right now, let's do something that's
like nothing else we get to do or we have done.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Right, it's like an experience. They're paying for the experience there.
We heard Ahi talk about just how significant getting that
Michelin star was for a cocoa. But considering the difficult
time restaurants have had over the past few years, does
it actually make a difference to the bottom line when
they do receive an accolade like this, like the Michelin Star,
does it still have the same significance that it had
(13:45):
decades ago.
Speaker 6 (13:47):
That's an excellent question. Some people will tell you that
Michelin's become a bit wider down. They've been definitely expanding
and now they're in places like Colorado and in Orlando, Florida,
which is better known as being disney World, which is
not a place where you think you're going to go
for Michelin starred food. No matter what, it's an accolade
(14:07):
and it's great to have and a shiny star will
definitely attract diners. I don't know if you know people,
but I definitely know people who scan the latest Michelin
ratings and say, now I know I want to go here.
You know, it's like I guess there's like health ratings
like A B and C. Like if you have Michelin Star,
no matter what, it's like a plus plus and then
(14:27):
especially if you have more than one. And there's been
such a lack of Michelin Stars given to black chefs
in general or places run by black chefs, and certainly
African restaurants in particular. Last August, we did a great
story about the lack of black chefs in Michelin starred
restaurants and there were only six as of last August
(14:51):
twenty twenty three, and now there's already a couple more.
I know, it's crazy, sort of it's validation, right. I
think it's good internally. It's good for people to feel
great about what they're doing and like they're being seen,
and they are being seen because people do still pay
attention to michel And.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Do you think, then, Kate, does that sort of mean
will continue to see more African fine dining restaurants open up? Globally.
What sort of impact do you think it makes more
broadly to the cuisine.
Speaker 6 (15:19):
I love to think that it's going to you know,
it's validation and it means that more restaurants will do
more ambitious menus and charge more money for it. There's
a restaurant called Chisharu that started out in Brixton as
a sort of pop up and the chef Jokie Bacare.
When she first started in Brixton in literally a food hall,
(15:40):
I think her dinner menu was forty five pounds for
a couple courses. Now she's moved to Covent Garden to
much fancier trappings and her menu cost ninety five pounds
for a dinner. And so that's the kind of movement
where I think chefs and operators can say we're not
(16:01):
afraid to charge more money because this is how much
our food costs to produce and it's worth it. There
shouldn't be a stigma attached to African food that it
should be cheap, because people primarily know it is street food.
It can be a food that can be super indulgent
and make you really make you feel like, yes, I
want to spend one hundred pounds or almost one hundred
pounds to eat this food, and I can't wait to
(16:23):
do it again.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Thanks so much to Kate Crator, and thank you also
to Ahi Akokomi, the founder of A Coco, for inviting
me into his now world famous restaurant. Whether more African
restaurants are awarded with a coveted Michelin star or not,
the recent recognition is clearly giving the cuisine and the
cooks behind it it's long overdue spotlight in many markets,
(16:47):
expanding the palettes of those diners new to African cuisines
and those just looking to indulge in a familiar taste.
This program was produced Adrian Bradley. If you like the episode,
don't forget to comment and subscribe. Wherever you are listening
to this podcast, I'm Jennifer's Abasoga. Thanks as always for
(17:09):
listening
Host
Jennifer Zabasajja
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