Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Ethiopia has inaugurated a giant dam on the Nile River,
a huge feat of engineering that the region hopes will
address chronic energy shortages.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
The Grand Ethiopian Renaissance Dam is not merely a national project.
It is a pan African statement.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
It simplifies the scale and ambition of African lead infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
But the dam could spark further tensions with Egypt and Sudan,
who remain locked in a dispute with Ethiopia over management
of the river that provides fresh water to more than
one hundred million people.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Ethiopia built the Grand Ethiopian Renaissance Dam to bring prosperity,
lights up the region and change the history of black people,
not to harm any of our neighbors.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
On today's episode of The Next Africa Podcast, look at
what this dam might achieve for the region and how
Ethiopia's dispute with its neighbors could play out. I'm Jennifer's
Abastaja and this is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you
one story each week from the continent driving the future
(01:16):
of global growth with the context only Bloomberg can provide.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Before we get to our conversation this week.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Our Ethiopia correspondent Fasika tod Essay was at the inauguration
ceremony earlier this week.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Here's part of what she saw.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
The dumm stunts about one hundred forty five meters high
and close to eighteen hundred meters long, featuring a concrete
gravity dumb design. The main and the suddle dumps have
been finished, and the installation of the thirteen turbines is
completed and now operational, generating a little over five thousand
(01:52):
megauto energy. The reserve has also captured seventy four billion
cubic meters of water, creating an artificial and I see
that the spillways are releasing water allowing to flow downwards.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Physica is joining me now along with Tarek Eltebloui from
our Cairo bureau. Thank you both for being here. Physica.
Let's just start with you. We heard your description there
of just how big this dam is. Maybe you can
tell us a bit about the project and just how
long it's been in development.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
The construction of the dam was started in twenty eleven
with the hope of finishing it in five years, but
it has been delayed due to various reasons, including diplomatic
tensions between downstream countries so done in Egypt, and also
the mismanagement by the previous company that was overseeing the projects,
and also funding issues because none of the international lenders
(02:47):
were not willing to fund the project, so that way
damage the reasons that lead the project to be delayed
for more years than the expected five years.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
So clearly it's been quite a long path for the
government and to actually get this up and running, so
it makes sense why this was a significant day for them.
What did they say on the day about some of
their ambitions for what this dam will do and also
what the economic impact of the dam will be.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
It was portrayed by the primeister and also by the
government official who in attendance at the integration. Was the
inaugration of the dam is history for Ethiopia having the
largest African dumb at the same time financing it or
building a five billion dollars dump through domestic financing, So
it was a big day for the country. When it
(03:36):
comes to the economic impact, the first one is half
of itapest population lives without access to power, so that's
the first thing the dam will be doing, and giving
power to the community and also the industrialization. So last
year the industry sector grew by ten percent, So the
government hopes to feel those growing demand from the power
(03:58):
generated from the new DUMB. And also the Prime Minister
said it could generate up to one billion dollars on
a yearly basis from exporting power to neighboring countries. So
far it TOOPA exports power to Djibuti, Kenya and Tanzania.
That's the target. And also recently Topia starts springing in
bitcoin mining companies started using power generated from the DUM,
(04:21):
so that's also the expectation the government hopes to achieve.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Through there is inaugurted down.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
And Physica you talked a bit about this, but there's
clearly been a lot of disputes on the way to
this inauguration, to this unveiling of the dam, and a
lot of that is centered around the Nile and the
countries that are along its path. What have the discussions
been with some of the countries along the Nile and Ethiopia.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Yeah, since twenty fifteen, the three countries have been so done.
Ethiopia and Egypt have been in negotiations on how to
operate the dumb. The negotiations started before the dumb was finished.
Part of the discussion was how to operate or how
to manage the operation of the dum, especially the minimum
guaranteed the water flow that downstream countries would be getting from,
(05:10):
especially during broughd season. There had been discussions between the
three countries and several rounds of discussions, including US mediated
conversations and negotiations, but all of them didn't materialize and
the three countries didn't reach to an agreement. So I
would say the process has styled for a couple of years.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Which lead me to tak thanks so much for being here.
You are in Egypt. Maybe you can give us a
bit of history about the significance of the Nile for
Egypt before we get into some of the events of
this week.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
It's obviously usually significant. I mean, Egypt relies on our
water for you know, especially ninety eight percent of its
water needs. You know, there's a saying in Egypt that
whoever drinks from the Nile will always come back. I mean,
that's kind of an entrend in the country. So the
idea that you know, there's the potential for shortfall for Egypt,
(06:04):
which is that to an extent, that's already experiencing that.
You know, it is hugely significant. I mean, as the
Presidency put it yesterday when they issued a statement in
a response to the inauguration, they deemed it an existential issue.
You know, it's really a question of life or death
for a country that essentially relies on the Nile water
(06:24):
for almost everything.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
You mentioned the statement that we got from the Presidency.
Has the messaging changed from Egypt over the years or
does it remain consistent their concerns with this.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Dam You know, obviously the statements are all Calctian diplomatic language.
The most recent statement, which basically relaid a message or
a letter that was submitted to the Security Council, talked
about how Egypt pertains its rights to respond according to
international law in the UN Charter, and it came out
fairly forcefully against Ethiopia and what it dubbed intransigence on
(06:59):
the part of the government. There two effectively or actively
in agent negotiations that would yield to an agreement that
would more fairly, more eculatively distribute than a water among
the Anal Basin countries.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I want us to take a quick break and when
we come back We're going to talk a bit more
about Egypt and potentially what the next steps could be, and.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Even bringing in Sudan. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Welcome back today on the podcast, we're talking about that
great Ethiopian Renaissance Dam, which hopes to provide some five
thousand megawatts of energy to the Horn of Africa Region FASIKA.
Today and Direct al TABLAWI are still with Meterrec. I
wanted to stick with you because you were talking about
potentially discussions that could.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Happen moving forward.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
What's been interesting has been Egypt and Sudan sort of
banding together against the dam. Do we have any sense
of what the next steps look like for these two
countries and their discussions are lack thereof.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
With Ethiopia, I think the focus right now on the
part of Egypt and sensibly also Sudan is really to
pursue the diplomatic channels that are available to the international efforts.
I mean, as I mentioned, they they've taken the issue,
you know, presented it to the Security Council and the
hopes obviously that perhaps the Council would convene a special
(08:22):
session to discuss it. You know, behind that, you know
what we've been seeing on a part of Egypt is
really a much stronger or much more active engagement on
the on its part with its African neighbors, especially the
you know, the Horne of Africa, and in essence, I
mean what they're trying to do is to draw in
those countries that were previously aligned with Ethiopia, you know,
more on their side. I mean, Egypt had a long
(08:44):
history in Africa under Gamla than Nasser back in the
fifties and sixties. You know, it is very actively engaged.
And then that they really withdrew from that scene, you know,
under Sadded and then subsequently mob Arc and I think
they've realized that I was in a state, you know,
in the sense that it opened the door for Ethiopia
to start rallying or building alliances or exerting its own
(09:06):
influence there at the expense of Egypt. So you know,
he's stepping back into the game a bit later, you know,
starting maybe twenty nineteen is when they really actively done
some kind of outreach with countries like eure Atria, Somalia.
Last month, the Uganda, the president was in Cairo meeting
with President Cci, you know, and a big part of
(09:28):
their talks focused on the Nile, and obviously Egypt hopes
that Uganda would kind of press the issue between us,
you know, before a seven member committee that would look
into trying to find a way of pressure or to
convince Ethiopia to step back in with some kind of
serious proposal that would mitigate the potential impact, you know,
(09:49):
should another significant drought arise. I mean, that's that's really
the description concern is what would happen if you have
an extended drought season or drought period for several years.
You know, it has tremendous domestic political significance. I mean,
the fact that Egypt hasn't been able to brok or
reach an agreement with ev ops Is is problematic for
(10:10):
the government because it affects a nation about one hundred
and eight million people manufacturer and another ten million people
that are refugees from various conflicts in the region, you know,
who are basically dealing with a severe water shortage for
lack of a better word, I mean Egypt's under the
UN guidelines. I mean, Egypt is a water poor country.
It's it's the average per capital is about five hundred
(10:32):
meters compared to what it was back when the initial
agreements assigned back decades ago.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I think you're alluding to the agreements made from Britain
right allotting Egypt part of the Nile River. How much
weight do you think that will potentially carry in these
diplomatic discussions.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
You know, I think what Egypt is looking for, per
se is something that allows the more equitable access to
the water in proportion to the country's domestic needs. The
Egyptian government, the presidency, there's all all along maintained that
Ethiogys are right to economic development. You know, it's everybody's right.
But at the same time, that shouldn't come at the
expense of another country, which is a serious blind. I mean,
(11:13):
it's not something you can make up for through desalination
plants or even upgrading technology or recycling water, especially when
the country's trying. Egypt is trying to increase agricultural land,
boost arable area so less than its reliance on imports.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
And I'd like to bring Fasiica back into this physica.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
How has the Ethiopian government responded to these latest legal threats,
because as we mentioned, this has been going on for
quite some time.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
There is no direct response for the legal trade. But
the government has been justifying that the dum wouldn't have
an impact on Sudan in Egypt, saying that the dumb
has reached in its full capacity. It's the reservare is
full now and there is no big impact that created
(12:01):
on Egypt and Sudan. That's the justification coming from the government.
The government also says that catching that amount of water
prevented Sudan from the recurring floods happening in the country,
So that's the justification coming from the government. But also
during the inauguration ceremony, the premise was saying Itopia doesn't
(12:21):
have an intention to harm both countries and the country
has a responsibility to protect those countries from any kind
of disasters or challenge them white face and.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Let's just finish on the inauguration. There was quite in
a list of attendees there heads of state from across
East Africa at the specific inauguration. Just to Trect's point earlier,
its seeming like Ethiopia is getting a few allies to
get on board with them with the benefits I guess
(12:54):
of this damn But did we hear anything specifically from
some of these heads of state about the various aims
about the Nile River for.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Heads of state where there during the inaugration, and all
of them delivered speech during the inaugration ceremony, and one
of the three things they mentioned was cooperation between the
downstream countries and ensuring regional stability in the Horn North Africa.
And yes, obviously that was one of the reasons stressed
(13:24):
by Kenya's president with Dan Bruto and also the Somalian president.
The other point they have mentioned was benefit the East
African countries would be getting from the dump. So all
of them expressed interests to purchase power from Ethiopia in
the coming years.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
So yes, and you can read our coverage of the
Grand Ethiopian Renaissance dam across Bloomberg platforms. Now here's some
of the other stories we've been following across the region
this week. Prosecutors at the International Criminal Court began presenting
evidence this week to support their charges against fugitive Ugandan
rebel leaders Joseph Coney at the Global Court's first ever
(14:03):
absentia hearing, alleging that he inflicted horrors on Yugone in
society that still echo two decades later, and Nigeria's currency unit,
the naira, has rallied the most in Africa this month.
It's been driven by high nominal rates and investor positioning
ahead of expectations that the central bank may start cutting
(14:24):
rates as inflation continues to trend downwards in the West
African nation. You can follow these stories across Bloomberg, including
the Next African Newsletter.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
We'll put a link to that in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
This program was produced by Adrian Bradley and tiwa Adebayo.
Don't forget to follow and review the show wherever you
usually get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
But for now, I'm Jennifer's Abasaja. Thanks for listening.