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November 4, 2025 15 mins

US President Donald Trump has threatened to freeze aid to Nigeria and take military action unless its government stops what he’s called the killing of “very large numbers” of Christians by jihadists.

On this week’s episode, Deputy Managing Editor for Middle East and Africa Neil Munshi, and reporter Nduka Orjinmo join Jennifer Zabasajja to explain where this claim comes from, what the reaction has been in Nigeria, and the challenge facing the west African nation’s government as it works out how to respond to President Trump.

You can read Neil and Nduka’s piece on Bloomberg now, and you can subscribe to the Next Africa Newsletter here.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. President Trump has threatened
Nigeria with military action to tackle what he's claiming is
targeted attacks on Christians.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
They're killing record numbers of Christians in Nigeria and they
have other countries very bad.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Also.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
You know that that part of the world they killing
the Christians and killing them in very large numbers. Not
gonna allow that to happen.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Nigeria's government has said the claims do not reflect reality,
as Nigerian assets tumbled in the aftermath of Trump's threats.

Speaker 4 (00:41):
It's impossible for there to be a religious persecution that
can be supported in any way, shape or formed by
the government of Nigeria at any level.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
On today's podcast, we're discussing why Trump is focusing on Nigeria,
where the false idea of a genocide against Christians is
coming from, and why Nigeria might have to think carefully
about how to respond. I'm Jennifer's Abasaja and this is
the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one story each week

(01:18):
from the continent, driving the future of global growth with
the context only Bloomberg can provide. And joining me this
week is Neil Munchi Bloomberg's deputy Managing editor for the
Middle East and Africa and are a Buja based reporter
Nduka or Jinmo. Thank you both for joining us this week.
Appreciate you both being here. And Duka, let's start with

(01:40):
you because there's quite a bit to unpack with the story.

Speaker 5 (01:43):
But we heard earlier.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Those comments from President Trump on Air Force One over
the weekend. We'll talk shortly about where some of those
claims that he's making are coming from. But let's just
start with what the President actually said, what the action
is that he's threatening, and whether or not we've gotten
any indication that he's going to follow through on this.

Speaker 5 (02:01):
Can you can you break that down for us?

Speaker 6 (02:04):
Yeah, let let's start from Friday. Then Trump posted on
the Truth social he's on platform, that thousands of Christians
have been killed in Nigeria, and then he blamed the
radical Islamistic for being responsible for that mass mother then
he went further, and that's simplest to designate Nigeria a
country of Particular Consent, which is usually reserved for countries

(02:27):
that show clear and consistent patterns of religious discrimination or persecution.
On Saturday, Trump then went further and directing the Department
of War, so prepare for possible military action in Nigeria.
He studied with Nigera government continue to allow the clean
of Christians, the US will immediately stop all aid and

(02:51):
assistance of Nigeria and me very well to use his
own words, now go into that. Now these based country
cons are blazing. Then on Sunday, he was asked, you know,
whether he might callin st rights or sending ground troops,
and he said a lot of things. At a moment,
we haven't seen any movements to indicate that any of

(03:13):
that is happening. He just still feels like it's the
usual Trump retoric. He hasn't really escalated to the points
where he's sending either the ground troops is talked about,
or you know, sending in any carriers into the West
African coast. So not in so fine in terms of
the military action, just talk from Trump and from niger government,

(03:37):
which we'll get into later.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
And the timing of this is quite interesting, of course,
because we just saw the president during his Asia trip.
Now he starts to make these claims. Let's dig into
the claims a bit. Neil, if you can jump in here,
what do you make of the timing of this and
why President Trump is starting to focus on Nigeria now.

Speaker 7 (03:55):
In a sense, it is sort of a matter of time, right.
So this kind of conspiracy theory around either persecution of
Christians in Nigeria or a genocide against Christians in Nigeria
has been circulated right wing Western circles and evangelical circles
for years, and you know, Trump dipped into it a

(04:16):
little bit in his first term when he similarly declared
Nigeria a country of particular concern by an administration pulled
them off that list. But in recent months you've seen
it kind of gaining steam. So you know, Senator Ted
Cruz A. Trump Bali introduced a bill to protect Nigerian Christians.

(04:38):
There was a sort of lesser known Republican congressman who
did something similar, and you've heard more and more chatter
about this, and so in a way, it was kind
of the way Trump often does, kind of pick up
on conspiracy theories that are floating among his base and
then elevates them. That seems to be what happened here,
and you can see it. It's broken out of the

(04:59):
kind of traditional right wing spheres. In the case of
say the comedian Bill Maher who has a show on
HBO every week, and I think we have a clip
of him talking about it too.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
If you don't know what's going on in Nigeria, your
media sources suck. You are in a bubble. And again
I'm not a Christian, but they are systematically killing the
Christians in Nigeria. They've killed over one hundred thousand since
two thousand and nine. They've burned eighteen thousand churches. These
are their Islamis Bokoha rama. They are literally attempting to

(05:32):
wipe out the Christian population of an entire country. Where
are the kids protesting this?

Speaker 1 (05:38):
So Bill Maher talking about this on his HBO show.
What do we know about the actual picture in Nigeria
on the ground there, Neil?

Speaker 7 (05:46):
First off, you know in that clip he says they're
trying to systematically wipe out the entire Christian population of Nigeria.
That's just absolutely, factually inaccurate. You know, Nigeria is a
country of two hundred and thirty million people. It is
split roughly evenly between Christians and Muslims. It is also
a country that has been racked by violence for decades

(06:08):
that impacts all communities and all people across Nigeria. The
way this violence has manifested over the last fifteen years
is kind of falls into a few buckets. One is
Jihadis and Islamists in the northeast, Ookalham being the most
famous one, attacking villages, army convoys, churches and Muslims too.

(06:32):
In the northwest it's armed gangs and bandits who are
criminals who have kidnapped and massacred thousands over the past
ten years. And then in the middle of the country
you have long running conflict between largely sedentary and Christian
farmers and nomadic cattle herders who are mostly Muslims. And

(06:56):
there is where you see it shade most into religious violence.
But again most of the violence of the country is
concentrated in the north, which is prenominantly Muslim, So just
kind of based on that, the proportion of victims, it's
higher in the Muslim community than it is in the
Christian community. But that is all to say that violence

(07:17):
impacts everyone in Nigeria and it is non denominational. As
the bokalhorm phenomenon and the kind of Jihadis phenomenon has
scaled back, the armed gang's bandits riding around on motorcycles
with AK forty sevens ramped up and I think it
should still be true today. But for a long period,

(07:38):
we're responsible for much more violence in the country than
Jihadis or Islamists. So you know, in these groups are
groups of guys with guns and motorcycles who live in
the forest and attack villages, mostly in the Muslim North,

(07:58):
massacre and kidnap for and some across the country. So
that kind of puts it in perspective. It's as if
the folks were saying Boco Haraam's killing one hundred thousand
Christians across the country are living in a world that
kind of Bocohran wished existed fifteen years ago, that they
were able to have done that, But that is what happened.

Speaker 5 (08:18):
Stick with me, both of you.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
When we come back, we'll talk about what the reaction
has been to some of the comments President Trump has
made and what we're likely to see moving forward from
the US president but also from the Nigerian government.

Speaker 5 (08:34):
Welcome back today.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
We're looking at President Trump's threat to deploy the military
to Nigeria to tackle what he's called, without evidence, systemic
attacks on Christians on Nigeria. Nduka or Jinmo and also
Neil Munchi are joining us this week. So Nduka, what
have we heard from the Nigerian government so far?

Speaker 6 (08:55):
Those in statements from President boat Sin and he basically said, look,
Nigeria is a country that guarantees the religious liberty of citizens,
you know, Christians, we are not being persecuted and the
many points that Christians and Muslims you know, have been
targeted by these extremist groups, you know, by these armed

(09:16):
gangs in Nigeria and those sparing the war across religious lines.
I thought it was a very measured response. I thought
they really falling through the trap of going going with Trump,
you know, almost marching fire with fire, because Nigeria still
needs to kind of support that the US can providing
terms of providing military equipment, in terms of providing aid,

(09:40):
in terms of providing the kind of economic support that
you need to really keep the Goldment's reforms going. So
I thought it was a measured, measured response by the governments.
We've heard that there are shadowed talks between Nigeria's foreign
minister and officials in Washington. The fermis that you know
told me that two weeks ago that they are constantly

(10:01):
talking with officials in Washington, and that's the only same pitch.
But that was before from me those statements. Anyway, things
might have changed a little bit. But the impression I
got from speaking on the foreign means that was that
there are talks on going between both.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Sides, and some people are making the comparison to President
Trump's allegations about South Africa and what he said about
white africaner farmers and potentially sort of the tussle that
we saw between President Ramaposa and President Trump. Eventually Neil,
what's the risk here if we take a look at

(10:36):
President Tinubu's response, as Nduka just pointed out, quite measured.
What is the risk here though, especially if we look
at the current situation that he's dealing with domestically.

Speaker 7 (10:46):
Yeah, I think, you know, to that point, the measured
response is kind of the only play with Trump, because
he's shown, you know, for a long time that he
doesn't back down from a claim once he's made it,
no matter what evidence is shown to refute it. So
the example of South Africa, where he claims there's a
genocide against white people against all the available evidence, is

(11:08):
kind of exactly the situation Nigeria is finding itself in now,
and it's going to be tricky, and I don't think
South Africa has fully figured this out yet, and you know,
we're many months in to their situation. To placate Trump,
communicate to your people and the world that this is
not true, and maintain relations in a way that Trump

(11:31):
is able to save face and probably continue to repeat
these false claims. I don't think it's going to be
easy for them to navigate, but I think this metric
response is kind of the only way to do it.
And I think, you know, Tanubu's pretty well placed to
talk about religious pluralism in Nigeria because he's a Muslim

(11:52):
who was governor of Lago State in the predominantly Christian South.
He's married to a Christian woman who is also a pastor.
You know, for all his faults in tackling insecurity in Nigeria,
he kind of embodies the religious pluralism in many ways.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
That's that's really fascinating. So then what what do we
watch out for now? As you mentioned, South Africa is
still trying to figure it out, and maybe you can
start for us. What what are you paying close attention to.

Speaker 6 (12:21):
Well, and if for the escalations, we've seen meetings. Yesterday
the Nine Giant president had the cabinet meetings and that
was followed viola meeting by his national security advisor and
the service chiefs that he had just recently appointed. I
wouldn't necessarily conside that that's a response to trom sweatrics. Well,

(12:43):
we'll be looking for any any for the escalations. If
perhaps the US decides to begin moving military assets towards
the West African coast, then that will be a pointing
plan when we can then sy a where this is
really getting serials. I do not think we'll get to
that points. I think it's it's Trump's rhetorics, and I
think that in the transactional nature of politics and Washington

(13:06):
these days, there can be some trade off between the
nine drug government in and and folks in Washington. Nigeria
refused US application to take in some of the illegal
my Grand's control is going to send that would be
back on the cards now. Nadia has some minerals that
that Trump might be eyeing. So these are things that
really used to to have peace, do not Trump. But

(13:29):
I don't think there'll be the kind of military escalation
that Trump passed them as hinted.

Speaker 5 (13:33):
Perhaps there's a resource transaction in the pipeline.

Speaker 7 (13:36):
Neil I kind of would say the same thing. If
we see aircraft carriers and that kind of thing in
the Gulf of Guinea, will know that he is taking this.
As far as he has. The Venezuela situation, I don't
think that's in the cards either because I don't think it.
It's sort of at the heart of US policy or
his policy, the way that Venezuela and the drug trade are.

(13:58):
I think, yeah, the most likely is in the months
to come, as we see kind of trade deals and
that kind of thing. You know, the Nigerian government could
say we're very happy to accept US help and tackling
the scourge of Islamism, which, to be fair, like US
troops have been training Nigerian troops for years, that's been ongoing.

(14:18):
And you know, on the other side, maybe they can
offer US companies access to their largely untapped lithium reserves
or other minerals in the country.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
And you can read Neo Munchi and Duka or Jinmo's
report on Bloomberg platforms.

Speaker 5 (14:35):
Now we'll put a link to that in the show notes.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
Here are some of the other stories from the region
we've been following this week. Guinea's military leader Mamadi Dumbuya
will stand as a candidate in the country's first presidential
elections since he sees power in a coup four years ago.
And AI powered fintech firm Optasia Group rallied and it's
stayed you on the Johannesburg burse that marked the nation's

(15:03):
biggest initial public offering this year. Optasia's successful debut could
set a trend for other fintech firms considering borse listings
and help re energize market sentiment on the JS and
You can find these stories on Bloomberg platforms now, including
in the Next African Newsletter. Will put a link to
that in the show notes. This program was produced by

(15:27):
Adrian Bradley and tiwa Adebayo. Don't forget to follow and
review this show wherever you usually get your podcasts, But
for now I'm Jennifer's Abasaja.

Speaker 5 (15:36):
Thanks as always for listening.
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Host

Jennifer Zabasajja

Jennifer Zabasajja

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