Jim Cramer on the Retail Trading Revolution

In recent years, retail trading of stocks has absolutely exploded. This is happening despite the fact that investors are subject to a constant stream of propaganda that individuals can't beat the market, and that the proper way to invest is through low-cost index funds that you don't pay regular attention to. More than anyone else, one man has been banging the drum (literally) for years that individuals can beat the market and are smart enough to select individual securities. That, of course, is Jim Cramer, the host of the popular TV show Mad Money on CNBC. He is also the author of the new book, How to Make Money in Any Market. We discuss his philosophy of investing, his career, his time as a young college-age radical, the time he lead a wildcat strike and got fired, his thoughts on memestock mania, and much more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
I'm Joe Wisenthal and I'm Tracy Allaway.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Tracy, something I think about the market these days is
that in the media there is this incredible drumbeat of
experts and ads that support the media, et cetera. All
these experts that they say, don't try to beat the
market index, index index, and actually induxing is great because
like it's cheap and indexes of performed incredible returns. And

(00:46):
now though for the last several years, it's like the
public is becoming unshackled and doing the exact opposite of everything.
And we see the most extreme form of you know,
day trading and trading on Robin Hood individual named zero
da memestocks options. It's like the public has revolted against
this message that it's been inundated with for years.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
Well, you know what I think is really interesting is
not only is retail sort of going out on its own,
but Wall Street and the institutional investors are kind of
copying what retail does, right, because retail was the first
into something like zero day or one day options, and
then it became institutionalized and you saw that big professional
volume follow on. So it feels like retail is a

(01:28):
really important part of the market now. And rather than
retail trying to do what the experts do, it's kind
of the experts trying to catch up. Yeah, catch up with.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Retail, understand what retail is doing. And again, like I
love an index fund, and I don't like having you're.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
An EMH guy. I'm just gonna remind.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
You i'd like an EMH guy. Yeah, I love it,
But like I do feel like there's this huge tension
and it only feels like it's accelerating because now there's
more and more things to bet on, and there's crypto
and pretty soon on your robin Hood app you're gonna
be able to like bet on a prediction market on
what the that is going to do. So we live
in this world of trading against what all then is

(02:05):
like myself sometimes.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
The four pros.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, well, anyway, we really do have the perfect guest,
someone I've wanted to speak to literally for years, someone
who has long been preaching in public that the individual
can pick stocks, that picking stocks is a good thing,
that you don't have to accept the idea of just
being boring and being average and getting the average return.

(02:29):
We are going to be speaking with Jim Kramer. He
is the host of Mad Money on some network called CNBC,
never heard of it, and he is the author of
a new book, How to Make Money in Any Market.
So Jim thrilled to have you on the Outlaws.

Speaker 4 (02:41):
First of all, that intro of what you're talking about
justice is the fundament of what I'm talking about. But
I want to spend a second talking about the person
to my life, Joe, Joe, my wife, my wife, my wife,
the book, door Bookstor And she goes, Okay, you got
today's show, and you got Joe, and Joe is some
one who's gonna get it going for you and wake

(03:02):
up and he's going to probably know the book and
he's going to know your stuff. And Tracy, I tell you,
when you do these things are pretty soulless. So when
you get something like you guys, I mean, I just laugh.
And you know, my dad sold corrugated. That was his
job when I was a HEADGS front manager. I just
went exclusively with him. Let me reference to the last
week's show. But I do want to talk about totally
much really about what you're talking about. I wrote this book.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, I just say the first line of the book
is congratulations, you've just bought the most radical book about
investing ever in classic creamer models.

Speaker 4 (03:34):
Sure, because understands. But it's true that everyone's been taught
these days you can't pick stocks and you just have
to be in the next one. Thank you word Buffett
for that too, although his stock was the one you
should have picked. And what bothers me is people are
going to do it. And you talked about zero day
and he's like that they're going to do it. If
they're going to do it, why not help them. I mean,

(03:55):
one of the premises of the book is is that
I know that people want to speculate. So look, I say,
own an index fund for half your money. You got
to be saving constantly, and then take five slots. Try
to find four really good stocks and a speculator. One
you want to go to the nuclear power, you want
to go through blue energy for hydrogen fuel cells. I'm

(04:16):
not going to stop you, provided that you try to
find the next fang. And I'm fortunate enough to create
a fang because it was just something that seemed funny.
But you know, I do that too. But what I'm
trying to do is accept the fact people want to
do this, do it right, and if they do it right,
maybe they do it long term owned stocks. Like I
use the term compounding. How do you compound if you're
a day trader. You can't. You can't. So I mean,

(04:39):
I look at this show, and this show is about
trends and about long term trends. Like I find that
most things that I read about are about trading, and
you can't beat the machines trading, but you can beat
them if you compound long term in really good stocks.
And I mentioned it's crazy, but I went over one
hundred years. There was a study about over one hundred
years and if you held vulcan materials rocks, you made

(05:02):
a fortune. I don't really emphasize it. But if you
held Philip Morrise, she made the most money and he's stuck.
Philip Moore. Oh yeah. They have a whole episode on
Danny de Vich. You broke that company up as one
of the greatest breakups ever. But I don't like this talk.
But I lost my father in law that cancer from smoking.
Wanted a cigarette on his death. But you know that
kind of nonsense. So I feel like that long term

(05:22):
is good provided you do it right. And I let
people pick stocks because they want to. And by the way,
there have been six hundred thousand millionaires created by individual
stocks in the last year, and I want the people
who read it to be the next ones.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
I think it's fair to say, whatever you think about
overall performance and the efficient market hypothesis, just putting your
money in the s and P five hundred is kind
of boring, right.

Speaker 4 (05:46):
Well, that's it. You see, people they want something, they're jonesing.
I have to keep them from jonesing on the wrong
thing because I don't even want jonesy. I actually want investing.
I was the one to show the other day that
guy said, why do you encourage day traders? I was
a hedge fund manager for many, many years, and when
I quit, I said, you know what, I have got
to change this because people keep thinking they can come

(06:08):
in standing start and buy Micron and you don't know
anything about Micron. Do a standing start. Why not pick
a great stock that's down because and it's got a
good yield and you can own it for a long time.
You see the big secular trend and if I can
do that and get people to stop day trading. That's
the win they can't do. You guys think that they
can win day trading at home. No, No, it's correctly Okay,

(06:32):
they can't.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
Look so your argument they can't win day trading, but
they can win picking stocks and holding.

Speaker 4 (06:38):
Yeah. Well, I think that things have changed from when
I got in the business. I used to go to
the New York Commercial Library and read microfiche that was
a couple of months old. Couldn't get any reports. It
wasn't available. Now everything's available, and I do recommend look
chat GPT perplexity. You can find out more than you get.
I mean I was watched within five minutes. They have everything. Yeah.

(07:00):
I just think that if someone wants to do it right,
they can do it right. They got four slots away
from the speculative. I show that one or two if
they hit, can make up for all the losses. I
accept the fact that they're going to have losses because
nobody's that good. But in every kind of schematic I did,
the index fund didn't do as well, and yet we
revere the index fund good. We get one really good. Well,

(07:22):
you have seven good ones in four ninety three bad. Well,
that's what you and that's not my style.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
It is true. I am kind of partial to the
argument that because so much of the debate and the
story is online now that the guy who's like day
trading from his basement probably has a very good finger
on the pulse of the market and possibly better than
some of the professionals.

Speaker 4 (07:42):
Stundus, then you're you're more revusrat that I am. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
I think you saw it during the memes stock era. Yeah, exactly.
Is it weird to go from a professional hedge fund guy,
a legit hedge fund guy, to the sort of poster
boy for retail day traders.

Speaker 4 (07:58):
Yes, but I was hedge fund manager. Everything was to
try to figure out the patterns and now the machines
do because that was pre machine and now I'm kind
of a spokesman for the individual investor who is completely
not the professional. And that's because the show may have
Money's pron for twenty years. It's a six o'clock show,
and what happens it's all about what the individual's trying

(08:21):
to do and what I'm trying to explain. Let's give
you example tonight, give you a little preview. I'm gonna
talk about the multiple and why I went talk about
the multiple because that's the secret sauce. And yet people
don't understand I'm and I invoke my mom in the book.
My mom is a person who you meant we were
talking about injured knew it. My mom is someone who

(08:42):
says Pepsi's was at one hundred and forty right now
Coca Cola is sixty seven. I've got to buy coke.
It should never be as cheap as pepsi. Coke should
be double And like I would say, Mom, no, that
has artifice. Is the price sar which is Jimmy, listen
to me. It's ridiculous to Pepsi's a one forty period,
end of story. And she didn't know that it was

(09:03):
a ratio. And she would call in at nine point
thirty when I was a goldman and buy I want
to buy three shares of Giant Food. And that was
not the why I was a goldman, just not to
do the three Sure, But I am incredibly cognizant in
the book that people don't know how to read a baluantie.
So I actually take the risk of twenty pages about

(09:23):
how to read a balance sheet. I take it now
when I did the book, they were like, whoa hey,
and I said, no, no, I got to go there.
If I'm telling people to own individual stocks, I have
to help them with chat GPT and how to analyze
balance sheet and how to actually go line by line,
because I don't want to be irresponsible and say what
you ought to do is say, you know what, Coca
cola is pretty good here You've got to understand why.

(09:46):
And that's a big part of the book.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
You mentioned a Memestucks as someone who has spent a
career advocating this for this idea that the individual can
trade like now in twenty twenty five, Like, what do
you think about that specific time? I mean, arguably it's
like multiplied since then, But have you ever do you
ever stop and think like, do you ever think this
has gotten out of hand? Do you ever think this

(10:09):
is a monster that has gone beyond where it's like?
Do you ever have misgivings about the degree of public participation?

Speaker 4 (10:17):
I had a moment where I had had some serious
back surgery, so I was out heavily medicated for three days,
and when I started this game during GameStop may Well,
GameStop was about one hundred but when I started, and when
I came to basically and stopped using the whatever kind
of heroin that they give you these days. It was
a Thursday and GameStop had quadrupled. I had a Catherine.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
Did you think you were hallucinating?

Speaker 4 (10:42):
Well? I had, yes, yes, I thought that maybe something
in the midnight guy slipped something. But I had Catherine
me and I couldn't reach the TV. It must drive
me crazy. I finally just pulled the Catherine out, which
is really not a good experience. You really like to
be more of a pro. And I called in to
Karl and David, Carl Continua and David Paper and said,
it's just ridiculous. Everybody has to sell. After that, it

(11:04):
was twenty four to seven Bodyguard because I destroyed the
chain letter. Game Stop shouldn't have been a four hundred.
We all know that it is an industry that game
Stop is still fighting, and they've got you know, they've
raised a lot of money by doing that at the
money sales, the.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Death threats and stuff like that.

Speaker 4 (11:20):
Oh, I've had a lot of debt, right, I'm sure
I was supposed to.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Maybe over maybe we'll talk a little bit about both
of us need to learn a little bit more about
how to handle public.

Speaker 4 (11:29):
But yeah, well you've always been you've been straight, and
we know that you're fearless. And fearless means when you're
with your guards, they say, listen, you gotta stop being fuels.
So I owned a restaurant. Yeah, and one of the
guards said, look, here's what we're going to do. First,
you're never going to your own restaurant. That's the most VISI.
I said, I own the restaurant. I like to go

(11:50):
in Tuesdays and Wednesday. Said okay, you got to vary
the day and you got to go and no time
after after seven. I said, well, it doesn't open until seven.
We have to be a little more cogniz especially in
this year, this horrible ear that we're seeing.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Joe, do you still dream of owning a restaurant? Didn't
you talk about.

Speaker 4 (12:06):
Doing Okay, I gotta tell you. If you can have
a mixture of alcohol, yeah, you know, you can make money.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (12:14):
Yeah, we made money.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
Just on the alcohol.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
You also a business, which we should.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
That's why we had to switch because we saw the
people buying mescal like man, so we pivoted. Wow, you
really fought well. Of course, you. You're knowed, the knowledgeable chase.
I've not worked with you, I've listened to you, and
you're completely enjoyable and terrific. And this is a show.
I was telling Joe beforehand, what a cool thing. We

(12:40):
haven't taken seven commercials yet. Do you realize that we.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
Might have once listened be published?

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Wait?

Speaker 3 (13:02):
Okay, sirious question.

Speaker 4 (13:04):
We've been serious the whole way, right, haven't we?

Speaker 3 (13:06):
Sure you touched on the information? The plethora of information
sort of leveling the field for professionals and retail. And
then earlier this week we had Trump suggesting that public
companies should report every six months instead of quarterly. Oh
what would that do for the retail investor? And there
is also this trend towards more private markets, more companies

(13:28):
that are not ipoing, less information available.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
Well, this has been a great soul searching moment because
having run a public company the street the quarterly follows
cost this a fortune. We didn't have that much. It
was like our whole profit went to the auditors and
they were real paying the butte because we didn't know
how to do it. And the CFO at a huddle,
we lose that person for twenty days. But as an investor,
I want all the information possible. So I kind of

(13:53):
feel like, look, you can give us two reports, but
you've got to give us support that would make us
in the non secit make us understand why we should
be paying X for you. Again, the price Durnings motable,
because that's that's what people need to be able to
make decisions. This was a harder one than I thought
because the president really does speak to a lot of

(14:13):
CEOs and this is what they talk about.

Speaker 3 (14:16):
Yeah, I'm sure they complain about it.

Speaker 4 (14:17):
Oh yeah, because look, one of the things that I
hated about the being a public company is the conference call.
What are we going to say? Do we do well?
What are you going to predict? Are the Martins going up? Martin?
I mean, and I just we can't give a forecast. No,
if we don't do forecast, then they won't like us.
But if we do the forecast, we'll miss the forecast.
And these kind of silly discussions, they're really silly, and

(14:39):
I think that they I think they're a shame because
they suld take a lot of time and they're very
very misleading.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
You said there's something in your book speaking you read.

Speaker 4 (14:48):
The damn book. Good about it. I read a good
one reason my wife. My wife said, I bet you
read it. I bet you read it.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
This is something I wondered about in April when the
stock market plunged after Liberation.

Speaker 4 (15:00):
Yeah, even they came back.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
But you talked about the fact that like politicians by
and large, actually Trump is a little different than most politicians,
but they don't typically run on the stock market, and
they also like don't run about like the shareholder as
a class of society that deserves to be represented, right,
as you mentioned in your book, like Joe Biden was
sort of proud of the fact that he didn't have

(15:21):
much money. You never really hear, well, what about the
shareholder class? Okay, as an individual? And I'm curious why
you think that, especially now that so many people are
into stocks. It's so much part of pop culture, et cetera.
Why don't people talk about the shareholder class.

Speaker 4 (15:36):
I saw Decresso on the floor yesterday, and you know,
I used to go around the country with him talking
about the shareholder class and ownership. We just talked about ownership.
That was kind of pre the idea that everything had
to be traded. When I was a goldman we talked
about ownership, and ownership means compounding, and compounding is a
very boring word, but it is what makes you the
biggest money. And I think we have to encourage ownership now.

(15:58):
In terms of President Trump, I was at judge on
The Apprentice for a very long time, and before that
he had been on Mad Money multiple times, and he
always said, look, I don't do stocks. Give me some stocks.
I want on some stocks. And that's a totally fraud situation.
You don't want to offer him, you know, alcola. So
I always just said listening utilities, and he said, good, good,

(16:18):
this is what I wanted you because utilities. Frankly, you're
not blowing your head off with ae with marcollucture power.
But he didn't pride himself in not knowing stocks. He
wished he had more time to learn stocks. I think
that he this time around when I spoke to him,
he's not really into the stock market as a barometer
of his success anymore. In the old days, when I

(16:40):
spoke to him as president first go around, he thought
that the tal you liked the down when the Esva
the Dal determined it was the great if he didn't
be if the dal didn't go up, then he wasn't
a good president. So it was the great determinant. And
I always tell him, please don't do that. It's too hard.
You're not really one for one with it. Like yes,
he liked that. It was like the Nielsen's and I

(17:03):
have to tell you that doing the Prendice was quite
quite enjoyable.

Speaker 3 (17:06):
Wait tell us stories. I want to hear the behind
the scenes gossip.

Speaker 4 (17:09):
Well, I mean, what would happen is is that you
had to monitor tasks. I'm not going to mention they
would have a task. I'm not going to mention individual
names because I've had a non disclosure, but i will
tell you there's some people who do the task and
some people who want you to do the task like me.
And I was like, no, I'm just a judge. But
we would go through it and I would have to

(17:31):
out the person who did nothing or out the person
who said they were doing something. And you know, maybe
the two people were doing it and one was doing
nothing or didn't show. There were some of those instances,
but in the end they used my verdict, I'd say
maybe half the time. And I wish they'd used it
more because I spent a used amount of time looking

(17:52):
at it. But the president had a he had views,
he had strong views, and they views did conflict with mine. Often.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
Here's a question. It's sort of a media naval gazing question,
but also a serious one. So you've been doing the
show for twenty years, which is phenomenal. I heard also
that you get up at three am every day to
go to the gym and then do the show, which
is well three fifteen, three fifteen or the extra fifteen minutes.

Speaker 4 (18:19):
I always, because I'm a competitive guy, I always said
I get up earliest so that I beat everybody else.
But that's losing its charm.

Speaker 3 (18:25):
Frankly, how do you benchmark your own performances?

Speaker 4 (18:29):
How do I bench because I know I doing two
fifty initially, I'm sorry? How do I bench bark my
own performance?

Speaker 3 (18:35):
Your own performance when it comes to stockpicking? Because frankly,
like twenty years of content, multiple stock picks, I don't
even know how you keep track of all of them,
Like I can't remember the episodes we did two weeks ago.

Speaker 4 (18:47):
Well, okay, I mean I have a charitable chest, so
you can look at it. You can't really compound if
you sell, you have to give the profits a way
in the difference of given way. But it's all pretty public.
But I would gauge me by what I talk about endlessly.
And now this is not people think that's anecdotal for
twenty years. It's empirical. If you talk about Apple thirty
two times a week and you talk about Newcore one

(19:10):
time a week, and you're graded equally Apple and Newcore,
that's farcical. I was with Tim coleclass Friday in Howardsburg, Kentucky,
and he introduced me to someone as Jim owned don't
trade Apple Cramer, and that's how I feel. And the
best one I've ever had was Jensen Jensen Wong. When
the stock was too I said, we're done trading it,

(19:30):
please stop trading it. And then I renamed my dog.
He was Everest and I named him in Vidia. And
I go all over the country and I.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
See confused was the dog?

Speaker 4 (19:40):
The dog? Dog was an idiot. I had state I
always had to have steak in your hand with that idiot.
He was a half pitball, half who knows what. But
I do think that when you look at the number
of India millionaires, that also is empirical, not anecdotal. Now,
there are people who want to say, Jim, I really
do want to measure what you said about Blue Energy

(20:01):
last night and the verse what you say about Apple,
and you know what I say, knock yourself out. I mean,
if it was really wrong, I would have been canceled.
I mean, I'm like twenty years. Means either that I've
fooled the whole damn world every night, or maybe people
like it and then they learn, maybe they learn.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
You mentioned you get up at three fifteen. I used
to get up at four am every day and people
still think I do. So they think I have this
crazy work. I think I've been sleeping in a long time. No,
but but you know a lot and the only way
to know a lot is to read a lot and
to work a lot. Can you give us like a
day like okay, you wake up at three fifteen? Yeah,
like you read and work like crazy. Give us a

(20:40):
little crup that goes into your show.

Speaker 4 (20:43):
Here while I start with the Ft. Okay, because the
Ft has one breaking news story every day, just one,
but it's great and today was the end.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
What time do you read it? You're up at three fifteen.

Speaker 4 (20:54):
I do have to I mean I have a four
o'clock workout. Okay, that's an hour and a half. So
I have a tight schedule for the first forty five.
I look at the future, CBC dot Com, Bloomberg, New
York Times, Wall Street Journal. I spend a little more
time on the Wall Street jour in the State because
I feel like that they're a little more in tune
with what the market's doing. And then I go and
I start looking at my email, and the email is

(21:14):
just a series of PDFs.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
How many emails do you get a day?

Speaker 4 (21:18):
Seven hundred?

Speaker 3 (21:19):
Wow?

Speaker 4 (21:20):
I look through the pdf Yeah, and I.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Look, you read all the sellside research.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
I read everything I think is relevant, and I'm looking
for something to say. I have a memo that comes
out ten things I'm looking at. I have to have
that in seven to thirty. So that's my overlord. And
then after that I have to do Squawk on the Street.
And then I start again and I start writing the show.
And I've been writing the show with my sister's kid
since he was in high school. He's now with me

(21:44):
for twenty years. Stuff. Mason, he's a genius and he's
I mean, the guy can just I think he has
two PCs going all at once, and he's remarkable and
we have a really good time doing mad money.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
Wait what time is this hour?

Speaker 4 (22:00):
Oh, this is beginning. This is beginning at ten oh five.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
And when are you reading like all the conference calls
and earnings, because you really one of the things, you know,
details of the calls and earth During the.

Speaker 4 (22:10):
Day, I spend a huge amount of time. I mean,
for instance, I'm in the house on moment here because
the only thing I read I had to read this
poet was Channel Mills, and I will read more of
that because they talked about how the consumer is hurting,
and you know, if you're hurting maybe because Blue Buffalo
it actually was plus six. But if you look at
some of the brands, proprietary brands, they can be knocked off.

(22:31):
It's not like when Costco couldnt knock off Coca Cola.
There's stuff more fungible, there's more elastic. But I spend
you know, I'm a couple hours a day on.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
The and then after hours earning. Okay, so then like
Apple reports earnings and then you do the work. Talk
to you.

Speaker 4 (22:47):
I have a great marriage. I put that out first
because I wreck it every day. I finished the show
at quarter six, it's taped lib tape. I come home,
I have a bite t eat. I mean I had
to go out to dinner ten and then I say
good night to my wife.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
Wait, what time do you go to bed?

Speaker 4 (23:05):
I go to bed at eleven. She goes to bed
at like a normal time. So that's when I really
wreck the marriage. That's not the plant. I don't set
out to do that. Did that previously bad strategy, But
I just find that I have to do that. And
that's like during when you have that rush now earning
season no longer is the season because.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
Companies feels like it goes on forever.

Speaker 4 (23:27):
Doesn't it. It's kind of perma. But when we have
that week where JP Morgan starts in Wells, does it?
That weekend is just miserable. Fortunately, during the summer a garden.
My weekends are just filled with this one.

Speaker 3 (23:38):
I love gardening. We should talk ardening. Are you vegetable
or a gardener? Decorative flower gardener?

Speaker 4 (23:43):
You should.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
I used to have a vegetable patch actually, but then
I moved to a new place. I need to restart one.
How do you choose your sound effects?

Speaker 4 (23:52):
Oh okay, hey, I had a radio show. This show
and you know where that radio show pure the greatest
radio network in the world, Bloombergh and the Mayor run
ran twice a day because he thought it was it
was a lot of it was educational.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
Mike loves the radio, Oh he really does.

Speaker 4 (24:10):
He was my biggest you know, look, I think if
I say he was my biggest backer, that sounds like
a joker. But he loved what I did. And the
sound effects got people going, and it was drive time
and he was so supportive, and I love him. I mean, look,
once you leave, he's not as supportive. But what can
I say? I mean, this is Bloomberg and you.

Speaker 3 (24:32):
Should try to reintroduce sound effects.

Speaker 4 (24:34):
Radio may because he wanted people to listen. You know,
bull bear, she sounds imagine incorrect. A buzzer, but a
guillotine for they had to cut their numbers and that
kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (24:47):
We only have one, which is the Monopsony Clackson, which
isn't exactly that producer insert the.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
Very proud, a proud fellow a lot.

Speaker 4 (25:03):
Great to be substantive and great to be able to
explain and educate. And no one said education doesn't work
for the numbers.

Speaker 3 (25:10):
Do you actually do you think of yourself more as
an educator versus as a stock picker.

Speaker 4 (25:14):
Yes, this is really like let's say, last night's show,
I tried to explain that what matters today with the
FED is what way will the curve change? Will start
going up on the long end or down? Long and
down is the big win. Long end up is what
happened last year. We had the starter step and then

(25:35):
we had the December crash when Pal just said, listen,
we're done. That's going to be the judge. But I
had to use all sorts of analogies because the curve
you can't ever mention the curve like the every Sydney
Homer the curve you can't ever inside the curve by
Sydney Homer.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
A lot of it's tracy.

Speaker 4 (25:58):
I have also most of debates book about it.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
Most of it is charts. That's what people don't understand.
It goes by really fast.

Speaker 4 (26:06):
It's all. But I listened to you kind of yeah,
you're a hitter the shows. It's okay to say I
like this, sh yeah, No.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
We're going to use this on scissle reels of promotion
for years to.

Speaker 4 (26:20):
I see these people that I've worked with here you know,
Will Donna and these are the queen of the crop.
And you know I was at the street everybody who
was good. I actually encouraged them to come here because
they start to start the street and the idea is
top and you want to go to a place where
people can be thoughtful. And look, I'm not saying this
to suck up. I'm saying I worked here and that's

(26:43):
what the essence was.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
Man Garde Street, Alum, have come through.

Speaker 4 (26:47):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
I was gonna like say, you know, when we were
going over what we wanted to talk about, and I
was gonna bring this up, and then you're like, no,
I don't bring up what we're going to talk about.
A complete uh surprise. Were you in college age spartacist
or Trotsky? I like, tell us about you mentioned it once,
I think in a video, but then the video. You've

(27:09):
also tweeted about your uncle Vlaud about one hundred times,
with whom you do para passing resemblance. Give us what's
the real.

Speaker 4 (27:16):
Ill used to be stopped by as uncle Lad all
the time. Yeah, Okay, mine was spartacist because I believe that, yes,
the Workers United should never be defeated because we're about
the workers owning the means of production, so therefore we
should own the company. Yeah, and now Trotsky obviously gravely

(27:39):
misunderstood including the ice pick. The ice pick very bad, Yeah,
suboptimal day the ice pick. But I just think that
that made a lot of sense, and I went that.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Way when you're at Harvard.

Speaker 4 (27:51):
Yeah, okay, we had pretty pretty big following, and there
were not that many Leninists. I mean, you know, Trotsky
was a pretty good writer. Yeah, and Lenin was He
wrote what is to be Done? His version number two,
what is to be Done, and that that's a good read.
But Trotsky really was a very thoughtful guy and also
a great army general. And people forget that the train

(28:11):
the train man only the money train, the Armedian money
train in shield, and that train really worked.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (28:18):
Well, I guess the fugitive train crash was a good
train cash. I like Union Pacific.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
Here way, I like seeing you.

Speaker 4 (28:28):
Well, I just wanted to help it. I was a laborer,
I thought, because you've also.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Talked about you once, little wildcats.

Speaker 4 (28:34):
I ran a Wildcats strike at the Phillies where I
felt that we should have look, we're doing all the
work here. I talked to these guys. We're doing all
the work here and yet everyone else the overlords. By
the way, can I just tell you you had to
do a kickback when you're selling ice cream, Hey, ice
cream and all the chocolate. One third of your money
went back to the guy. So you didn't get strawberry
ice cream because you can't sell strawberry. Nobody wants strawberry.

(28:57):
That was the big threat. Hey, listen, shut up, Kramer.
You're gonna get strawberry. But I had a seventh level
concession that I paid everybody. I paid everybody not to
come up to seventh level. So I owned it. But
we had Steve Carlton then a long time ago, probably no,
but he used to pitch games in an hour and
a half. I was always long a huge amount of
ice cream in July. It was just dreadful. But so

(29:18):
I let the wildcat strike and it was very good.
They called me in and they said you're fine. I said,
well you can't do that. Well, you're not going to
get any ice cream tonight. You can come while you
went to this, but you're not getting ice cream. And
that was it, and that was bad.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
So when did you see the light though?

Speaker 4 (29:33):
From Okay, actually a really great question. The light was
when I helped I helped strike J. P. Stevens. JP
Stevens was a terrific towel company, linen company, with JP
Stevens being his great Princeton alum, and we knew where
he lived and we targeted the management. Really thought we

(29:55):
had it going and we were crushing it and I
was like coming up from the South to help. We're
going on. And then they closed the company. Rather than
deal with us, they closed it. And that was when
I had a change of heart because I said, wait
a second, I just helped take away the livelihood, the healthcare,
the dinner for thousands of workers by trying to get

(30:18):
them more money. And I really had to rethink it,
and I just said, well, maybe the sparta's is thing
more focus on the matter at hand, which is covering
a homicide. But I really felt awful about what we did.
We closed the company. That was not the intent.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
Well, there is this tension though, between like workers having
jobs and shares actually going up. Right, Like you have companies.
The easy way to boost your share prices to cut costs,
which means laying off workers. How do you square that?

Speaker 4 (30:49):
Well, I think that you guys did a piece. I
think it was you Joe, about how that you've been
thinking a lot about the billionaires, thinking a lot about that.
And I think that the way I square that is
has said. If I go back to President Reagan, he
was disgusted by how much the CEO has made and
the difference, and now the CEOs did never had to

(31:10):
pay the price, and the workers had to pay the price.
And you're talking about Reagan. And funny that Elizabeth Warren
reminded me about this when I saw her. I just
think that it's a travesty. I met with President Clinton
over a plan which said, look, I think that workers
should get shares if they're laid off, because typically a
stock goes up if they're laid off. And what he
did was he gave me a can of coke, died coke,

(31:33):
said this is the greatest idea in the world. We're
going to run with it. And nothing ever happened. President Clinton, well,
they all said it didn't matter which president. Nobody ever did.
But I said. President Biden was hilarious. We meet him
on that train. He said, honestly, I am the poorest
of the hundred. Why do I need your information. I said,
you don't need it at all. I mean, I'm not

(31:55):
going to take them to minus five. I do think
that President Clinton was very smart about the market, understood
that laid off workers were the tender to get a
stock higher. He was really smart about the market. President
Bush number two not that smart.

Speaker 3 (32:10):
Wait will you rank presidential market?

Speaker 4 (32:13):
Well? First, I would take Andrew Johnson because he was
insider trade. Now I don't know. I mean, did you
read any of these books about Jay Gould and what
he did? But I don't think this Grant, Oh my god,
he found out that goal you know where they were
on the gold standard knee comp come. There were there
were many many stories about presidents I think helping by mistake.

(32:34):
So I would have to give those guys.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
So as a what do you think about? You know,
there is this sort of particularly in New York City,
this very energetic nascent leftism. They wouldn't characterize themselves as communists.
I don't think Zorn is going around calling himself a
trust gat I don't think he is. No what do
you what do you make of like? What do you

(32:58):
make of this? Are we gonna like? Are we at
a revolutionary moment. Are the conditions of past revolutions present
here in the United States?

Speaker 4 (33:05):
No, they're not, because we have great job growth and
the revolutions have typically been preceded by famine.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Okay, well then how serious, like when you you know,
what do you what do you think about the DSA
and so forth, like, because I think you've said, you know, like,
do you consider them to be dangerous radicals or are
they like a sort of different shade of liberal democrats.

Speaker 4 (33:27):
I think different set of liberal democrat. I mean, I
remember Occupy Wall Street. Now you used to go to
it every see what's going on to interview people, and
they didn't know that where they were politically because they
were so confused, and we all in the media kind
of felt that they were communists or leftists, and when
to tear down Wall Street, they just I mean they
were just sleeping on a cold stone, trying to saying listen,

(33:50):
we're unhappy, and their ethos was zero. I think that
this is the Marrow race. I mean, look, I care
about defunding police versus police because they care about public safety.
And I saw what happened in San Francisco.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
Zoran has changed, I mean he has changed his mind
about that.

Speaker 4 (34:08):
That's why I don't think that we're going to be
San Francisco. And I also think by the way we
went to trains on time, we went public safety, and
I don't think that that's I don't think they're in play.
I just really don't. Now I'm a New Jersey citizen,
I have to love the governor of New Jersey was
my boss at Golden Sacks. But look, I just want
everyone to be able to recognize that the town has

(34:28):
made a great comeback. There's just so many great places,
and I hate to see anything devolved into San Francisco,
which is getting better, but was a nightmare to the
point where I stopped going. I used to do four
times a year of my show. But I saw a
guy pull a knife I was in front of I
was behind him at Walgreens, got all the money, and
then the cops arrested him outside and they released him,

(34:50):
and I said, what are you doing? He said, well,
we are you a hunter? I said, I'm a fisherman.
He said, well, we do the same thing. We catch
and release.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
Jim, I gotta tell you, we just got a message
saying Mike Bloomberg wants to say hi to you after
we record the show.

Speaker 4 (35:18):
I don't believe that. Seriously, what a selfius ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (35:23):
Even though you left the company, he wants to see it.

Speaker 4 (35:26):
I left the company, but it wasn't my idea. I
didn't want to leave the company to very specific. But
he became mayor, and look, I always worshiped him. What
can I say? And I won't even talk about the
myriad charities that he really did fun because that's not
why I did it. And I always admire that more
than anything. He never wanted anyone to know. In New York,

(35:46):
it's so it's so predominant. You go into a building
and the guy's got his name on it, Well, there's
no you know that is not Mayor Bloomberg. Mayor Bloomberg
was I remember giving an award for what we did
at the Brooklyn Bridge. I don't know if you guys
the Brooklyn Bage Park. But this city's been be dumb,
and a lot of it is that mister mayor. He's
mister mayor.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
Back to finance for a second, were you ever tempted
to recommend the inverse Kramer etf Okay?

Speaker 4 (36:14):
So that guy got crushed. He was just denial but.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
Had you recommended it, they would have had to short themselves. Right,
Oh my god, right, what.

Speaker 4 (36:22):
A cool idea. Yeah. I didn't want it, and it was
one of those things this is. Yeah, you go through
and your wife says, I don't want you acknowledge him.
I said, well, the guy's a total joke. I don't
want you to acknowledge him. And a lot of times
what happens is you do go back to your home
and you ask your wife what can do or your
partner what's right? Because everyone has got an agenda at work,

(36:44):
but my wife's agenda is me, and so I always
knew that she was just like a good lawyer. There's
you know, attorney client privilege, there's why espousal privilege.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, that must me feel so good. I'm looking at
the ticker and now it did terrible and then they
liquidated it in February twenty twenty.

Speaker 4 (36:59):
Yeah, how do you look?

Speaker 2 (37:00):
You know, I don't. We don't get a fraction of it,
but we get a little bit. Do have you ever
like for your mental health, like public abuse or public's
did you ever give any tips?

Speaker 4 (37:10):
Okay, sure, I mean there were some.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
People make fun of my voice of the Apple Notes
coming out, the NBC told me to be on John
Stewart and I didn't know the show, and I didn't
know he would I didn't know he would be unfair,
and I didn't explain.

Speaker 4 (37:23):
They were telling me basically that he would be convivial.
So I didn't come with my A game. I came
with my F game, and it was mortifying and terrible,
and every time I looked out. I mean, I always
tell people, look at me. Now, there's a whole generation later. Yeah,
he did sixteen years now, and I meet younger people
and they've never heard of it. But those people never
realized that the New York Giants were good football team.

(37:46):
It kind of happens like that. Yeah. My most important
tip is to say they're not thinking of it when
they talk to you. In other words, you're thinking of it,
but give yourself a break. Most of them are not mean.
I would say, like, but she goes she the whole
time she was thinking about Joss. I know she was
thinking about to No, you're not a mind reader. Take
people's face value. He was a very mean person. And

(38:08):
that's a word that my daughter used in fifth grade.
But I don't know how else to define someone who
wants to take your livelihood away, and he wanted my
lively had taken away, and I didn't want it taken away.
And to take away someone's lively, as I mentioned with
JP Stevens, it's a terrible thing, and I didn't deserve it.
But that's it's like it's like the movie Unforgiven. It
deserves got nothing to do with it.

Speaker 3 (38:29):
Speaking of the financial crisis, though, you did have a
series of like memeable moments, let's just say, in two
thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, including the rant
about Barrister. Yes it's famous.

Speaker 4 (38:42):
Well there's a nice article in the FT about it.
When the actual not the minutes, but the actual transcript
came out about how they laughed at me, and they
actually mentioned this said, yeah, we laughed at him. He said, oh,
Kramers though he's really funny. It was about speaking to
a lot of people who were saying, you got to
get on the case here. You guys are just oblivious.
You're acting as if it's a regular market. And my

(39:04):
friend arn Burnette was going on about a regular thing
and I just had to interrupt and I said, look,
they know nothing, they know nothing, and that was speaking
about bember Nanke, which who really I think did know
nothing during that period, and I was widely cascadd. I
had to go on the Today Show the next day
where Matt Lauer whatever said you were off, you were

(39:25):
off your meds. I want to hear more about this. Now.
See when you say that someone's off their meds, that
presumes that you were on your meds. And again I
mean like, look, am I used to being demeaned? Does
it bother me? It doesn't bother me like you used to.
But I do say that that Ran holds up and
I'm practice Ran.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (39:44):
And then I did that other thing where I went
if you have any on the Today's Show, if you
need your money anytime? The next five years and the
market fell forty percent after this. They used to take
it out now because I didn't want people by the way,
it took five years to get to market back to
where it was. I was worried about people fixed income
fixed on meeting. They own General Mills and they own Chevron,
and I just felt like that it was just really

(40:06):
the wrong time. And then the next day they had
me back and Curry asked me, look, you said this
thing on the show. Do you want to take it back?
And I said no. I mean sometimes when you yell
fire in a crowded theater, there's a fire. I want
to get out as many people as I can. And
these were moments that at the time, you'll you'll really
appreciate this show. When I did these, Uh, Subsequently, I

(40:29):
was so ridiculed that I that I would say to myself,
why the hell did I ever do it? Yeah, and
you know, I knew it was right, but no, I
had such angst even though I was right. I was
attacked by so many people. But now, of course it's
a dish best taste. How long did you do this for?

Speaker 2 (40:48):
Like three fifteen? Like, I don't again, I don't work
as much. No, but I like feel like my health
is I have the even the years where I got
up super early all the time, like they took me us.

Speaker 4 (40:59):
I mean, because you stub out all the time. Yeah, God,
I love it so much. I do. And I was
doing something last night at dinner and I really wanted
to get home because I want to formulate a thesis
on d rams. Well there you go. But I am
so fixated on this and I find the puzzle so
difficult and fabulous. The Nvidia puzzle, the puzzle this morning

(41:23):
we have about what's going to happen. I have to
I'll write my top right after the FED and this
is such an exciting day. You get twelve of these,
so I don't know. Look, it's a great question because
I don't know how long you can do it, and
I do want to see the world. And I don't
take as much vacation. I mean, I'm offered six weeks.
I take four. But it's because I love it. It

(41:44):
is because I love it. It's not a sickness, it
really isn't.

Speaker 3 (41:47):
So how has your research process changed over the years,
because again you've been in the game for decades.

Speaker 4 (41:53):
So I go out to dinner with Jensen Wong and
he says, I know you spend all your time reading
these reports. I just urge you to chat Gibt the
Advanced and get the concise version and then see if
it's one you want to do. And that has changed
my life because there'll be ten. And it turns out
that Paulti Home was important, not because of Bill Poulti
is not involved, and Stanley Black and Decker was important,

(42:16):
and Best Buy was that important and then the others.
I read the concise version and I could move on
with my life. And that was a great break for
me because it allowed me during the real earning season
to have fifteen reports and just say, Okay, I'm only
going to do Cat and Proctor.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
Yeah. I think Tracy and I both found like there
are a lot of things that CHATCHI Pig still isn't
good for. But there is no question in my mind
that for a research process, whether it's finding the right document,
whether it's just it's very.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
Tried, perplexity finance.

Speaker 4 (42:45):
I used perplexity maybe ten times this morning, but it's
short or quicker kirchs from me onto it.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
I think it's impressive.

Speaker 4 (42:51):
It is very impressive. I wanted Apple to buy him.
I was pushing that jump forever. I mean, I was
talking about that with with Tim Cocomfrada. I really think
that they need something. But because of the of the
Google decision, the judge Meta decision is possible, someone could
pay them.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
We talked about China a lot on the show. Are
they are they just to conavi?

Speaker 4 (43:09):
Wow? No, I got that.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
I had never heard that.

Speaker 4 (43:13):
The eighth Army is Yeah, the eighth Army favoite. What
is this?

Speaker 2 (43:18):
I only saw that because I was reading through all
your old tweets. What is this the conovit movement and
what does it have to do with contemporary was the.

Speaker 4 (43:25):
Guy who won the award for for shoveling the most
cold for steel and Stalin loved him.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
Kind is obsessed with steel. I always wondered why they always.

Speaker 4 (43:33):
Wear every plan. The five year for China's was the same.
They're long a lot of steel there. China's wrecked the
steel market. Presidents deed right on the transhipments by old buddy,
Peter Navarro's right on the tranships. It's wild that that
he's my old buddy, But he's my old buddy. And
he went to jail bad not yell jail, because he
went to toughs. But I do think that when you

(43:55):
look at China sometimes I'm very harsh about them, okay,
And that's because my father worked for Saint Regis and
Climax Union Camp. He worked for a Champion, he worked
for paper company. He sold gift wrap and carget it
and every single time he did well at one of these,
they closed it. And they closed it because the Chinese

(44:15):
targeted the gift wrapped industry. If you go to Costco,
all you have is Chinese gift wrap. So my father,
at the age of seventy three realized that's it. They
wiped us out. He called a company that does from
China who had an American rap and said, listen, I
want to work for the Chinese. And what he did
was he would sketch logos restaurants and suggest that they

(44:38):
used doggie bags that have their own name. And he
had a drawstring doggie bag that the Chinese made for
two bucks. He sold it for and he then had
the run of his lifetime. From seventy three to ninety two.
He worked until the month he died. He actually had
a good last month. And what's incredible was the Chinese
treated him like kings and when he died, they gave
me the proceeds for three straight years. And they were

(44:58):
the best bosses in the the world and they had
no idea neither.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
You called China the greatest capitalist nation of.

Speaker 4 (45:03):
All it is, they just crush it. God, you really
read me close.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
It's the headline of this episode going to be Jim
Kramer on communism.

Speaker 4 (45:10):
No, it is very funny because I do think they're
the biggest threat. I mean, what they're doing in video,
well you grow. I do want in Vidia to be
the platform, but I haven't been to China, so I'm Secondarily.
My son went to China to camel surf and he
broke his uh well, he hurt his shoulder and they
were going to operate immediately, and I said, look, I
got to speak to the head of the hog. But no, no, no, no.
My wife flew him over for shang I came back.

(45:32):
But the Chinese are a conundrum for us because they
work harder than we do. But we may have them here.
I know the exports for really, the export numbers are
really good for them away from us. But I think
we had to take some action because there's too many
fentanyl towns. I got a Fentel town right next to me,
and I can tell you it was a great town
when I was growing up, and now it's a town
where I can't believe it. I can't believe what happened.

(45:54):
The mills close, you know, the mills, the mills, the mills.
I mean, now you can't bring back the pirates mill.
It's good Peeps by George Packer in Atlantic about that.
But I know we're really rambling hearing. I shouldn't ramble anhim.

Speaker 3 (46:05):
Let me ask one cliche question. Lots of talk like
the show, lots of talk about market valuations. At the moment,
froth in the market we're recording this, I should have
said on fed Day, September seventeenth, do you see froth?
Do you see a bubble burring?

Speaker 4 (46:19):
Yeah, there's two markets. And that's one of the reasons
why I wrote the book, because there's this market where
that is a musical chair market. I make fun of it.
It's a palaeer market and accept the fact that who
want to speculate go do palenter because Karp is you know,
Karp is one of the greatest. His ontology work is incredible.
It's better than scientology ontology. But I want people to stop.

(46:41):
I can let it be one of your holdings, but
don't do all because it will be crushed. And when
it happened, I do believe it, And when it happens,
you'll lose everything. And then I would anything I tried
to do be wrong. It's like when I was at college.
I used to go to the racetrack and then there
was a guy Andy Bayer, who was pet was a
he was teaching a course. He said, listen, if you're

(47:01):
going to go speculate at the racetra, at least know
how to do it. And I never forgot that. And
if you're going to speculate, I will show you how
to do it. But I really want compounding. And I
want compounding because well, we know that that really is
Einstein did not call the it's one of the world,
but we know that that is a much better way
to make money, much better.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
I have one last question. It's very closely related to this,
but why are you.

Speaker 4 (47:24):
Wearing a button down? Why aren't you wearing French collar?
It was it was not wrinkle.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
We're gonna have today.

Speaker 4 (47:32):
No, I like that. You don't have to press that
because it has some sort of weird Did you buy
that all right?

Speaker 3 (47:39):
I'm pretty sure that was an insult.

Speaker 4 (47:40):
Yeah. No, no, no, because I know I would never
I'm very much I would have said I. I bought
my wife's lingerie on she and thank god we use
you know, match light. Don't have anything to put kazl
in on the you.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
Know, one last question. It occurs to me that like
one thing I thought many I got into did in
the market in the late nineties. At any given moment,
in a boom or a bubble, right, there are moments
that feel like the top, and then a year later
you're like, oh, that was nothing, that was just they're like, oh,
you know, it's like a few a couple of years ago.
They're like some C three AI is like booming, this
is crazy top and so things like that, or like,

(48:20):
you know this meme stock went up, doge coin is railing.
We must be in a bubble. But all these things
feel like a top in the moment, and then you
realize they were just little hills on the way to
a much bigger mountain.

Speaker 4 (48:31):
So you've got to there's a simple solution. You take
out over time your cost basis, and then you play
with the houses money. And then I'm okay because I'm
a first you know, harm guy, a hippocritic oath, and
I can tell people listen, if you want to do
that for your one slot, be my guest. But as
it goes up, you got to take your cost out
and then I don't care where it goes. It's fantastic,

(48:54):
but you are so right, that's what happens. Look some
people feel that Google's at in video. I mean, I
worked enough on video another Teragram.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
People were going Google bubble in two thousand and five,
two thousand and six.

Speaker 4 (49:04):
Well, I mean, look, I recommended Google at eighty eight,
and I was investigated by the CNBC General counsel for
why I used eighty eight it's so so big, And
I said, because I didn't use three hundred.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
Didn't you get out of the dot com bubble early
as well?

Speaker 4 (49:20):
I did? I was short. I went I went on
percent short.

Speaker 3 (49:24):
Dot com chicks first spotting.

Speaker 4 (49:28):
Because I am owned the big I was the biggest
share hold on the street dot com and we're going
from sixty three to two. So I had kind of
a premonition. I mean, when it was a sixty three,
the New York Observer said that I was three hundred,
drew a picture of me as a pig and said,
the three hundred and sixty million dollars man. By the
time it came out, I was two sixty, and then
a year later I was two point six.

Speaker 3 (49:47):
As a Trotsky. The pig cartoon must have hurt.

Speaker 4 (49:51):
I was overweight.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
Then, yeah, Jim, we gotta we're gonna talk for a
long time. Thank you so much for a thing on.
I wanted to be honest for a very long time.

Speaker 4 (50:01):
And I know that I got the exception because of
my book to be on. I told you that I
was writing the book, and I'm a man of my word.
To come back because I always want to be in
your show, because you're just a thoughtful guy. And when
I when you were the stalwart, you were the first
guy I read.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (50:15):
You know that no id to get up and read
the praise that because it was the best. Thank you
so much, absolutely, thank you. Guys should really appreciate.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
It, Tracy. One thing I will say about Jim, and
I've always felt this, I've only met in my handful
of times before, but one thing I'll say is like
that public persona is not an act. No, the mad

(50:47):
money vibe is that is Jim.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
No, I can believe it. He has a lot of energy.
It's yes, I feel like he's chaotic neutral maybe in
D and D.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
I just can't like, I couldn't sustain getting up at
four and that was just for a few years. And
the fact that he's still up at three fifteen, well
he goes.

Speaker 3 (51:07):
To the fact that he goes to sleep at eleven eleven. Yeah,
that's four hours to sleep under. Yeah, And that was
a fascinating discussion. And I think one thing you can
say is that in some respects Gym's been vindicated by
you know, the rise of retail trading totally. Everyone takes
it more seriously. Now that wasn't the case in like
the nineties or the early two thousands. It's really changed.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
No, it really is striking. I mean, it does seem like,
you know, he talked about needing to get a bodyguard
during game stops. So it's clear that to some element
there is a part of the retail investor world which
has metastasized into something sinister.

Speaker 4 (51:47):
When people are.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
Making threats because you don't like this dock, it's really interesting.
People are just like any sort of negativity is so
fought back against online when it comes to stocks these days,
it's really striking. So but also you know, obviously when
and then other things such as that they know nothing
rand or the liquidation which I hadn't even realized that

(52:09):
you mentioned it of the s Jim etf. Yeah, some
good wins under his belt.

Speaker 4 (52:13):
Man.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
I really wish he had recommended that. I know that
would see what would happen to you?

Speaker 2 (52:18):
The exception? Yeah, okay, how do you? How do you?

Speaker 3 (52:20):
I don't even know if an etf ken short itself,
but I guess you would find out.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
I don't know how you go about that fight. Now,
I'm glad we finally made that happen. And I read
about half of his book and it's a very fun read.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
I'm looking forward to it.

Speaker 4 (52:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
Shall we leave it there?

Speaker 4 (52:33):
Let's leave it there.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
This has been another episode of the Odd Loots podcast.
I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me at Tracy Alloway, and.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
I'm joll Wisenthal. You could follow me at the Stalwart.
Follow our guest Jim Kramer. He's at Jim Kramer. Follow
our producers Carmen Rodriguez at Carman Arman, dash Ol Bennett
at dashbod and Cale Brooks at Kale Brooks. For more
Odd Lads content, go to Bloomberg dot com flash Odd Lots,
where the daily newsletter and all of our episodes, and
you can chat about all of these topics twenty four
seven in our discord Discord dot gg slash on lots.

Speaker 3 (53:03):
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