May 23, 2025 • 46 mins
We're just a month away from the hotly-contested Democratic primary for New York City Mayor. And one of the candidates -- Queens assemblyman Zohran Mamdani -- is running on a somewhat unusual platform. Endorsed by the Democratic Socialists of America, he's proposing rent freezes, universal childcare, higher taxes on corporations and the wealthy, free buses, and city-run grocery stores. In this conversation, we talk to the would-be mayor about his socialist vision for New York, including how he plans to fund more public goods, what he would do to ensure that government-run services are up to standard, and why there should be Halal carts on every street corner.
Read more: NYC Mayor Ditches Democratic Primary to Seek Independent Bid
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello and welcome to another episode of The Odd Lots podcast.
I'm Joe Wisenthal and.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I'm Tracy Alloway.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Tracy, we might get a socialist mayor here in New
York City. Can I tell you something please?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
It's slightly weird. Last night, the night before we're recording
this episode, I had a dream that I was in
a shared uber with Adrian Adams and she was the driver.
So she's another mayoral candidate. She was driving and I
told her we were going to interview this particular candidate.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
And I was amazing.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
I was asking her for good questions.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
This is an amazing dream.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
You're not, maybe, Lissa, No, My dreams are very literal.
And everyone in the uber was giving me ideas for
questions and had opinions and stuff like that. But now
I can't remember any of it.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Oh, that's really disappointing. Anyway. You know, we don't really
cover a lot of New York City politics. We don't
cover a lot of politics in general. We hardly ever
talked about New York City politics. Who really cares about
New York and the broad audience. We don't like to
be too navel gazing. But you know, this is a
city with a lot of people who, needless to say,
(01:22):
work in finance. Potentially, if they're major changes to tax
rates here, etc. Then that could have an impact on
the industry that we cover a lot. There are a
lot of economics stories that are sort of New York centric,
particularly relating to housing, that are very universal, etc. So
it's not a crime to every once in a while
(01:43):
do a New York City focused episode.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
No, and this also relates directly to a previous All
Balts episode we did all about how New York gets
its groceries.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
That's right, that's the connection. Let's jump right into it.
I'm very excited to say we have a state assemblyman
and candidate for the Democratic nomination for mayor, Zoron, Mumdanie
coming on the show. Zoron, thank you so much for
coming on.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I mentioned your socialist. What specific strand of socialism are
you and are the other socialists revisionists and deviationists of
various flavor. We need to know your exact the exact
category here.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
I will leave that to the internet. Will I will
tell you that I am a Democratic socialist, yes, And
I started to call myself that after Bernie Sanders' twenty
sixteen run for president, when I finally had a language
described the way that I saw the world and the
way that I believe the world should be, which is
one where every person has the dignity they need to
live a decent life.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
By the way, you know, now that I am a
journalist at a mainstream news organization, I do not personally
have political opinions, but I can say that I didn't
wasn't always the case. And I went to high school
in Vermont, and I was a volunteer on Bernie's nineteen
ninety six house campaign, and want was a picture of
me with Bernie. So I was a very early you too.
I was a Bernard Brother before it became cool.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Yes, you got in early.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
So how would you describe your platform? Is it the
New York version of Sanders.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
It's heavily inspired by that same focus on income inequality
and a recognition of the fact that one in four
New Yorkers are currently living in poverty in what has
now been described as the most expensive city in the country.
And it is a platform at its core to make
this city affordable and to use every tool at city
government's disposal to do so, because for too long we've
(03:33):
had politicians pretend that we are just bystanders to a
suffocating cost of living crisis, when in fact, we have
two choices, whether to exacerbate it or put an end
to it. And we've seen Eric Adams do the former.
We're running to do the latter.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
What did Eric Adams do when you said he did
the former, what did he do in your view to
exacerbate it?
Speaker 4 (03:50):
You know, the first issue that you hear from most
New Yorkers when it comes to cost of living is housing,
and the mayor sets the rent increases for more than
two million New Yorkers who live in rent stabilized housing.
And he came in as a self described real estate
That's how he described himself coming into the office. And
he's raised rents accordingly. He's raised them more than nine percent.
And this year when the Rent Guidelines Board, which is
(04:12):
entirely composed of his appointees, found that the landlords of
those million or so units that have close to two
and a half million tenants had seen a increase in
their revenues by twelve percent. He wanted to raise the
rent once again to close to eight percent. And that
is one example. Another I would say is his relationship
to con Edison. Connetison can only raise the rates of
(04:34):
gas and electric with the permission of the state, and
they do so through something called a rate case. The
City of New York under Eric Adams administration sided with
Walmart in support of Connettison's requests to raise those rates
by sixty five dollars a month on average. And I
know that because I was also a part of that
rate case, one of the few elected officials who signed
an opposition to it. And I think that you can
(04:54):
see this again and again and again in the way
that he has intervened in the major costs that are
driving New Yorkers out of the city.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
So, since you mentioned housing and the rent freeze, you
support rent freeze, lower rents? And what do you say
to people who think that you need to incentivize landlords
to maintain their buildings to build new ones. There are
also people out there who think that regulatory reform is
the key to the supply problem in New York. Why
(05:22):
rent freezes particularly versus you know, maybe loosening some of
the regulations.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
I think that many of these things can actually be
achieved in tandem. I am both a candidate who believes
we need to freeze the rent for rent stabilized tenants,
and one who believes that we need to end the
requirement to build parking lots when reconstruct housing, who believes
we need to increase density around mass transit hubs, that
we need to upzone wealthier neighborhoods that have historically not
contributed to affordable housing production, and we need to interrogate
(05:49):
why Tokyo is building ten homes for every thousand people,
Jersey cities at seven and New York is barely at four.
And some of that also has to do with what
is often described as the mundane details of houses law,
but can have massive impacts on whether or not it's
affordable or expensive to construct that housing, be it single
staircase versus dual staircase, or the regulations that have effectively
(06:10):
made it illegal to build SROs in this city, and
the need for us to have a true diversity of
housing stock. And I think the reason for the focus
on our rent freeze is that is the clearest and
most direct way that you start your housing platform as
the mayor of the city, given your appointing of all
nine members of that Rent Guidelines Board. But it cannot
(06:30):
be the extent of it, because a city of eight
point four eight million people deserves a mayor with a
housing platform for eight point four eight million people, not
just the closes two and a half million that live
in those units. And the other point I would make
is that I have served in Albany. I'm now in
my third term, and I've seen in Albany, while I
have opposed it, we have passed legislation that allowed landlords
(06:52):
to double the amount of money they can receive for iais,
which are otherwise known as individual apartment improvements. So to
your concern around incentive devising, repairs and things of that nature,
landlords have already just won the right to double the
amount of money they can receive for those improvements. And
I was in opposition to that doubling because of the
immense amount of fraud that we've seen in that kind
(07:14):
of program, where expenses are not actually what they are
represented to be. And the final thing I would say is,
you know, the Rent Guidelines had that findings of the
twelve percent increase in revenue for those landlords. If there
are landlords for whom that picture is not an accurate representation,
there is a program where they can apply a hardship
program for relief when they show that their income from
(07:35):
rents is not matching up to their costs at a
ratio that is allowing them to continue to operate that building.
And that is a program that I will intend to
continue to support because I believe it is important to
ensure that we can keep all of these buildings in operation.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I've heard that about Jersey City, that they've actually done
a fairly good job of expanding housing supply. What is
the role in your vision for more affordable housing for
the price it developers and the for profit developers and
so forth, and you know, in your view, how can
we actually move the dial in terms of housing production
(08:09):
of we'll get into some of the stuff about I
want to talk about the public housing too, or quote
affordable housing. But for the private landlords, what can actually
in your view move the dial on that.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
I think some of it has to do with the regulations.
I was speaking of the fact that we continue to
have this requirement to build parking when you build housing.
That's not a requirement we should have any longer. The
need for us to take advantage of our unique place
in this country, and that we have mass transit hubs
across the city and that should be a site of
more housing density, and the fact that housing production has
(08:41):
not been evenly distributed across this city, especially in wealthier neighborhoods.
But I think even beyond that question of zoning, which
is what a lot of this comes back to, there's
also the question of process. We need to make it
faster to build this housing yeah, and ensure that we
don't see delay after delay after delay. And so one
of the points of our housing plan is also to
(09:02):
move away from the piecemeal process that is the one
you can describe today as being where you have something
known as member deference, where every city council member has
the ultimate vote on whether or not a development goes
up or down. We need to have a citywide approach,
one that also fast tracks developments that are in line
with the very priorities we've laid out with regards to
(09:24):
housing production, labor standards, affordability. Because it's been too long
where we've seen proposals to build affordable housing for low
income seniors languish for years in delays, and those delays
all cost money, and that's also what drives up the
cost of this production, and I think we need to
streamline those processes.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Actually, let's talk about that a little bit further. Because
public housing, which you want to expand significantly, is very
costly to build. And you know, there are certain standards
of public housing. We expect it to last a very
long time. There's priorities that it be carbon friendly, et cetera.
But like public housing production in New York City has
(10:06):
been on parer cost wise with even some very high
end private construction, Hudson Yards on a per unit basis
came in pretty similarly, this would be important regardless of
how it's financed. How do you actually get the costs
down in your view of public housing production.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
So the first thing I would do is just distinguish
between what kind of housing we're speaking of when we
say public housing, A lot of times we're referring to
Nischa developments. Yeah, across the fire.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
That's when I said it. I was thinking, nice, okay.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Just to be clear, and I think that you know,
what we've seen in Nischa is in many ways emblematic
of a larger betrayal of working class New Yorkers. Nischa
is technically underneath the auspices of the federal government, but
the city and the state have an immense role to play,
and we've seen over time, while the federal government has
refused to fund the plan to put at least forty
(10:59):
billion dollars towards Nischa to deal with an ever expanding
amount of capital needs, the city since the time of
Bloomberg has started to narrow the amount of funding that
it provides, and the state is not stepping up in
the way that it should. Now in our housing plan,
we propose doubling the amount of money we spend on
preserving Nischa housing because what we've seen is that oftentimes
(11:21):
it's easy to describe this housing crisis in New York
City is solely one of affordability, it's also a crisis
of having a safe and habitable place to call your home.
And as someone who represents the largest public housing development
in North America, Queensbridge Houses, as well as the story
of Houses Ravenswood Houses, I have seen so many of
my constituents, seniors who are forced to walk up many
(11:42):
flights of stairs because their elevator isn't working. Who are
waiting for months to have repairs be conducted, and who
in a moment of housing crisis. Under Eric Adams, we've
actually seen the time it takes to fill a vacant
unit in Nischa now exceed more than a year, which
should be the easiest thing for city government.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Today, I want to talk about another plank of your
platform that is of particular interest to us, and that
(12:21):
is groceries. Of course, so a while ago, Joe and
I recorded an episode on how New York actually gets
its produce and we learned about the importance of the
Hunt's distribution terminal and all of that. Why grocery stores.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
You know, we are focused on the cost of living crisis,
and when you ask New Yorkers whether they're making forty
thousand dollars a year or two hundred thousand dollars a year,
you will inevitably hear them speak about groceries and the
sticker shock they feel in going back to the grocery
store and their sense that that which they could afford
years ago is now out of reach for them. And ultimately,
(12:57):
groceries and food are a non negotiable art of being
a New Yorker and living in any city in the world,
you need to be able to afford it to build
any kind of a life. And yet what we're seeing
is that people are being priced out of produce. And
when something is critically important to that dignity, I believe
that there should be a public option for it. And
what we have proposed is a reasonable policy experimentation in
(13:21):
our city of a pilot program of a network of
five municipal owned grocery stores, one in each borough, that
would respond to twin crises, one of affordability and two
of food deserts. Because, as I was saying earlier, as
the representative of Queensbridge Houses, I will speak to constituents
who live in the largest public housing development in North America,
and they will ask me questions for which I don't
(13:41):
have the answer, Questions like why are there five fast
food restaurants in a five block radius, but I cannot
find a place where I can get fresh produce that
I can afford. And I hear that time and time again.
And so what this proposal does is it not only
guarantees cheaper groceries, but it also guarantees that those groceries
can be in the very neighborhoods of New Yorkers that
(14:02):
are being denied that service today.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
So some commentators have described this proposal as somewhat unusual
in America. I actually don't think it's that unusual. I'm
a former military brat and I vividly remember commissaries and
bx's on military bases and those were subsidized. Anyway, how
do you, I guess, address the fears of critics who
(14:25):
worry that this is going to devolve into some sort
of Soviet style market where you know, maybe I can
only buy one specific brand of tuna fish versus like
the five that are currently on offer.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Well, the beauty of a pilot program is that it
only expands if it's successful. Now, I'm confident that it
will be successful, and yet we will have to see
those results themselves. And the reason we even came up
with this is because of the successes of this model
in Kansas, as well as what you said in the
context of military bases across the country. And what we've
also found is there was a feasibility study done in
(14:59):
Chicago to see the applicability of this kind of a
model in an urban setting, and it found it not
only possible, but urgent and necessary. And that is the
exact kind of approach we have to take here. And
I think what's been quite interesting to me is state government,
in the time that I've been there, has had a
similar recognition, but on a different topic, where it's said
(15:20):
that gas prices are something that we can only allow
to get up to a certain point, and when they
go beyond that, we need to subsidize it to ensure
that it's affordable. In twenty twenty two, the state spent
more than six hundred million dollars to suspend portions of
the gas tax. And yet we are watching as New
Yorkers are being priced out of bread and milk and eggs,
(15:43):
and we are saying that this is beyond our control.
And I think the last point I would make here
is that our proposal is one that would cost sixty
million dollars for all of those five together. That is
less than half of the money the city is already
spending on a program called City the Fresh, which will
subsidize corporate supermarkets in the hopes that they provide affordable groceries,
(16:06):
but with no guarantee to that, and with no requirement
for them to accept snap or WICK, or to engage
in collective bargaining, or to actually guarantee those cheaper groceries.
So this is going to save the city money while
piloting a program that we are confident will actually deliver
the results that we have been denied in that existing
program today.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
All right, I have two specific questions on this. One
is I understand and I find intuitively logical the idea
that people should be able to afford produce and it's
food has gotten very expensive at the grocery store. But
grocery store margins themselves are pretty thin. So yeah, So
in terms of like actually using the grocery store channel
(16:47):
to deliver these cost savings, given that the retail storage
margins are so thin, just three percent, why is that
the dial rather than I don't know, give people a
voucher so that they can order fresh direct or something
like that.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
You know, I am someone who has been skeptical of
the efficacy of a voucher based model, And what I
am proposing with this idea of a network of municipal
ow and grocery stores is not a means by which
the city would make money and be able to increase
that profit market is like.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
The grocery level margins seem very thin. Now, I know
you're not trying to make money. I'm just saying the
margin seemed thinned. So if I think, like what moves
the dial significantly on affordability, the actual retail level grocery
does not strike me as where the big optional opportunity is.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
I think the opportunity we have with a city run
model is that we can actually guarantee those cost savings. Right.
We have heard national chains and executives speak on earning
calls about how they've been able to blame covid era
supply chain costs to increase profit margins even further. And
what this would be as a clear mandate from the
city that every single dollar we save we pass on.
(17:55):
But beyond that, given that the mandate is not a
profit based one, that we can also pass on further
savings to ensure that things like milk and eggs and
bread are actually affordable.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
So the other thing, and you sort of anticipated this question,
which is you mentioned, for example, that in existing Nightscha
housing people are waiting for a long time to get
an elevator repaired and so forth. How do you ensure
operational success because I think people would say, oh, I've
seen how Nightcha housing works. I guess I'm going to
(18:27):
know how a city, a New York City run grocery
store is going to work. And who knows if it's
going to be open, and who knows if they're going to,
you know, keep the refrigerators repaired, or if they're going
to have tomatoes one day. I'm just saying, like, you
have already confirmed the idea that certain city run things
are not run particularly well. So why should we Why
(18:47):
should the public have confidence that, even setting aside price,
that these would be like run well, run efficiently.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
I have to earn the public's trust and I will
do that every single day as the mayor of the city.
And if if you believe in public goods in public service,
as I do, it behooves you to believe in just
as much in public excellence. And the first charges that
you must have is to tackle that which has not
displayed that excellence. I think Nischa is an example of that.
I also think one of the reasons why I focus
(19:15):
so much on the MTA in my time in the
State Assembly has been because that's another example of that
where we have a world class city and we do
not have world class public transit. I love our public transit,
I love our trains, our buses, I love riding a
city bike, and yet I know that the way in
which we are running it could be so much better.
And what has excited me is that we've seen glimpses
(19:38):
of what that excellence could look like. I mean, I
remember when I went in to get my vaccine for COVID.
I was in and out of that facility in fifteen minutes,
and that, to me was an example of the public
sector being able to match the efficiencies we often hear
about when we describe the private sector. I think about Nischa,
which today is a story of disinvestment and of so
(19:59):
many New Yorkers being left behind, could also be a
story closer to the one of how they developed the
minifridge in this country because it was a direct result
of an RFP that was put out or a story. Yeah,
And I think there's also a story today to be
told about woodside houses, which is a niche development that
is piloting a large scale installation of heat pumps that
(20:19):
has been shown to both increase the quality of life
but also decrease the carbon emissions and the cost, and
ultimately that is what we need to show New Yorkers.
We have to earn their trust, and the best way
to earn their trust is to deliver the results that
we're confident we can with these ideas.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Just one more question on the grocery stores. So I
take the point about their purpose is not to make
money for the government, obviously, but how would you actually
judge the success of them.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
I would judge the success in their provision of affordable groceries.
I would judge their success in them meeting a need
that is currently being left unmet. And I think that
also means in the location of those stores, that they
actually provide a grosser restore in a place where currently
it is too difficult to find any of that produce,
and that their prices are as we are discussing them,
(21:06):
significantly more affordable and more in line with where New
Yorkers are actually able to spend.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
I want to talk more about public excellence in the
provision of public goods.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
My Bernard brother, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
I am an avid utilizer of many of the public
goods that New York City provides. My kids are in
public school. They go to the park almost every day.
We ride the bus together, we ride the subway together.
I don't think the subway and the bus are as
bad as some people say. It's certainly not as bad
as the impression I would get if I didn't live
(21:40):
here and now were watching Fox News about New York City. Nonetheless,
there has been an increase in crime over the last
several years. I think it's come down recently, but there
is a fair amount of disrepair. My impression is when
I think about public goods in general, which is that
people on the left really like to talk about them
and how important they are, and then generally do not
(22:03):
seem as committed to sort of like product excellence as
I would expect for them to say, be politically sustainable.
Like I said, I feel very safe. I live in
the East Village, I commute up here. I generally feel
very safe. But you know, like I see needles on
the playground at Tompkins Square Park. There are bathrooms that
are almost never open or functional. They're smoking on the
(22:27):
subway from time to time. It's not the end of
the world, but it's not very pleasant, especially when you
have kids. And I'm curious like what your view is about,
like what seems to be a sort of tension between
excellent provision of public goods and some of the law
and order, as people would call it, requirements for them
to be clean, friendly, excellent places.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
You know, I think we on the left have to
make it clear that quality of life is of immense
concern to us, because when we are fighting for public goods,
for public service, for public excellence, at the core of
it is that belief that everyone should have an excellent
quality of life. And yet what has happened in the
last few years is that this term has almost been
made to be understood as if it is solely a
(23:10):
conservative concern, when in fact, this is at the heart
of what we're fighting.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
It feels to me, like, to be honest, that the
left has conceded that that actually the part of the
reason it's become a sort of conservative coded term is
because I perceive, and tell me if I'm wrong, it's fine,
but I perceive a certain discomfort about some of the
hard choices or some of the you know more, maybe
carcerole is the right word, law and order whatever that
(23:38):
would contribute to making some of these public goods safer
and clean.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Well, I think what we have to make clear is
that those are not the only choices on offer, and
yet we do have to still respond to that same crisis.
And so often, as you were describing living in New
York City, you have a different understanding than if you
were to view it through the prism of social media
or TV. And yet we can say two things at once,
which is that there is an immense amount of fear
(24:02):
mongering and that we still have to deliver world class goods,
which we are far from doing today. And I say
that as someone who loves our subway system and who
knows that when you ask New Yorkers where they feel
least safe in the city, you oftentimes hear those same words,
It's the subway system. And that's why at the heart
of our campaign is a proposal to deliver that same
(24:25):
public safety that New Yorkers have been denied under Eric Adams,
a mayor who ran in twenty twenty one, telling those
same New Yorkers they need not choose between safety and justice.
He's shown himself unable to deliver the former, uninterested in
delivering the latter. And what we've said is that we
will create a Department of Community Safety, the DCS, which
understands that police have a critical role to play in
(24:47):
public safety, and we are currently relying on them to
respond to almost every single failure of the social safety net,
asking them to do the work of social workers and
mental health professionals, a reliance that has made it nearly
impossible for them to actually do their jobs. And we
can see that in their inability to raise their clearance
rates of the major seven categories of crime. And so
(25:07):
what our DCS will do is tackle five key issues homelessness,
mental health crisis, gun violence, hate crimes, and victim services
and will learn from the evidence proven models that have
been successful elsewhere in the country in responding to these
very issues and doing so in America that provides public
safety and frees up the police.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
So another part of your platform is raising the corporate
tax rate, raising income tax for millionaires. And I think
one of the things we are all perhaps internalizing this
week as we watch Washington, DC and the big beautiful
bill currently going through its process, is that raising taxes
on the rich seems to be really, really difficult in America.
(26:08):
Maybe New York is different, Maybe New Yorkers feel differently
about it. But I guess my question is a why
do you think it seems so difficult? And then be
how can you actually overcome that particular hurdle.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Just to take on You actually need state permission to
do that, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
You do. You need to work with the state, and ultimately,
the city is a creature of the state, and any
agenda you have as a mayor that seeks to match
the scale of the crisis New Yorkers are living through
will require Albany. When we wanted to create universal pre k,
we required Albany. When we wanted congestion pricing, we required Albany.
(26:49):
And I think again, and again and again you will
look at any of the most ambitious parts of any
candidate's plans and it will require Albany. When I came
into office in twenty twenty, one of the first battles
that I helped to lead was to raise taxes on
the most profitable corporations and the wealthiest New Yorkers so
that we could fully fund our public schools. And we
(27:09):
eventually did so over the objections of then Governor Cuomo,
raising about four billion dollars, and that allowed us to
fulfill the legal requirement of the Campaign for Fiscal Equity,
a landmark case with regards to fully funding public schools.
And I think it's difficult in Washington, and it's difficult
for a number of politicians to raise taxes on the
rich when those politicians are also funded by the rich,
(27:32):
because ultimately that clash between the interests of their donors
and the interest of their constituents is one that they
will oftentimes pick their donors. And we've seen that with
Andrew Cuomo. He speaks a big game about fighting for
working people, but he is funded by the same billionaires
that fund Donald Trump. We've just seen Bill Ackman give
his super pack two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and
(27:53):
we continue to see that even with him receiving a
million dollar donation from DoorDash looking to very clearly purchase
influencer around labor and street safety regulations. And I think
there is a real possibility of doing so, not only
because it's one of the most popular things when you
pull it amongst New Yorkers and amongst Americans, but because
it's needed to pay for an agenda that will transform
(28:15):
the quality of life not only for working class New Yorkers,
not only for middle class New Yorkers, but even for
the wealthy. You hear this concern about the degradation of
city services, and our proposal is one that meets the
earlier conversation we were having about the necessity for a
public good to be so excellent that even the wealthy
use it and delivers that with regards to buses, with
(28:36):
regards to childcare, and with so many of the city
services that will keep this city running.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
If you're unable to raise the tax rate for whatever reason,
how much of your policy proposal is not viable any longer,
And how do you actually prioritize the different things that
you are proposing.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
So I'm confident in our ability to raise it because
I've seen in every year that I've been in Albany
twenty one that the legislature has in its own budget
proposals proposed, those increases on income taxes for the wealthiest
New Yorkers and on raising the top corporate tax rate.
And just for one moment, if I can explain what
those proposals are. Our proposal is to raise the top
(29:16):
state corporate tax rate to match that of the radical
socialist utopia of New Jersey. Is seven point twenty five
percent here in New York to match theirs of eleven
point five percent. That's a tax that applies to the
topmost level of profitable corporations. We're talking about their profits
millions of dollars, and it would raise five billion dollars
(29:36):
just in doing so. The second part of the tax plan,
which would raise four billion dollars, would be to increase
New York City's income tax rate on the top one
percent of income owners. We're talking about people who make
a million dollars or more a year by a flat
two percent increase, so a twenty thousand dollars increase, which
is what I would argue a rounding error when you're
looking at it within that larger context. Those two things
(29:58):
together raise nine billion dollars, and then we raise an
additional billion through good government reforms, whether we're talking about
procurement or hiring fiscal auditors, or actually collecting the fines
and fees that New York City is owed. So that's
our fiscal policy of how we raised ten billion. Now,
you always have to prepare for every eventuality. The city
also has about three billion dollars in its rainy day
fund and its reserves combined. It also, in times of
(30:21):
economic growth, as we've generally seen in the last few years,
sees its budget increase by two to three billion dollars.
So there are a lot of different opportunities. And the
final thing I will say is, we have a city
budget of one hundred and fifteen billion dollars. I am
not confident that Eric Adams has been spending every one
of those dollars in the most productive way. And one
(30:41):
of the first things that I will do when I
get into city Hall JOJ but no, I mean to
be honest with you. It is a regret of mine
that we have allowed someone like Elon Musk to use
the language of fraud and inefficiency and waste for his
own end of personal benefit, when really, if we care
(31:02):
about public goods and public service, we should be ensuring
that it is the most efficient spending of those dollars.
And I think when we look, especially at the way
in which we've hollowed out public capacity to instead replace
it with private consultants, there's an immense amount of money
to be saved, especially if we're looking specifically at the
DOE and how much of our reliance on curricula procurement
(31:24):
has to do more with who we've already been procuring
with and not having any standardized approach when it should
also be a universal approach across the department that ensures
we both save money and deliver excellence.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
I want to ask another politics question. I don't really
like to talk policy, but I think this is actually
an important to mention. After the recent general election twenty
twenty four, and with clear that Democrats performed worse than
they historically have among non white voters all around the country,
there's this big debate about why, and the left says,
are the centrist you failed to talk to the working
(31:57):
class and the centris It's like, no, it's because you've
made us talk about pronow and that repelled people, et cetera.
I'm actually not that interested in that question right now.
I'm interested that intra left left candidates actually have not
done particularly well, mentioned Bernie among poorer voters, among non
white voters, among polling. I'm not going to ask you
(32:17):
about your own polling per se, but I saw a
poll that said you were pulling at eight percent among
black voters, with Andrew Cuomo having done a lot better.
It seems like left politics in this country. It appeals
to educated white people, many of them who probably work
in newsrooms. I haven't pulled the Bloomberg newsroom, but you know,
stuff like that. Why do you think that is why
(32:38):
have general Left candidates, whether it's the primary level, et cetera,
or even just looking at you know, New York City
mayoral polling, not had more progress among what is arguably
the core base of the Democratic Party.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
You know, I think these polls that we're speaking about
right now with regards to New York City continue to
be polls that are more reflective of name recognition than
they are of support. And what I mean by that
is Andrew Cuomo is a former governor who is the
son of a former governor, and when I speak to
many New Yorkers who support him, I almost always hear
the word Mario in their answer. And what I'm proud
(33:16):
of is that we are the only campaign other than
Cuomo to have broken double digits with every single ethnic
group across the city.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
But you know, like even like on say like unionization,
there's a lot of excitement among unionization of Grand students,
for example, but you know that's not what we think
of as like, you know, the sort of like industrial
beating heart of the labor movement, et cetera. It does
seem to be a phenomenon. There's sort of more left
culture or sort of left economic policies have taken hold
(33:43):
more among educated whites.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
Well, look, I think you can look at DC thirty
seven for an example. This is the largest municipal union
in our city, and they represent the workers who actually
keep this city moving. They are by and large black
and brown New Yorkers, and they explicitly chose not to
endorse Andrew Cuomo because he created Tier six, a new
category in the pension program that took more than one
(34:06):
hundred thousand dollars out from working class New Yorkers' pockets
and made them retire later after having served this city
in state for decades. And I was proud to receive
their endorsement, and I think that it shows me the
path here is one where every single day over these
next thirty four days, we are going to continue to
increase our support where we have seen ourselves, for example,
(34:29):
just break twenty percent in support with Latino voters. And
that is indicative of the fact that the very New
Yorkers who know Cuomo the most are the ones who've
been failed by his policies the most as well. And
that is a responsibility for my campaign and every campaign
to showcase his actual record of cutting medicaid, stealing money
from the MTA to fund upstate ski resorts, hounding the
(34:51):
more than ten women who courageously stepped forward to accuse
him of sexual harassment, and in many ways echoing a
Donald Trump style record. And that's what we will seek
to do, both at the doors the more than five
hundred and fifty thousand we've knocked so far, and on
cable and broadcasts and mailers, because we have now raised
eight million dollars, the most amount of money we can
legally spend in this race, faster than any campaign in history,
(35:13):
and podcasts, I guess, yes, this this is actually our
master plan. Yeah, it all comes down to odd lots,
thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
So I'm going to cook that.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
So I just remembered something from my dream. Actually, So
one of the passengers said that what he wanted was
basically this is not a real passenger, but I think
it's reflective of some things that you actually do here
in New York. But he said what he wants is
basically boring, old competency in a mayor so an administrator
(35:45):
that has lots of policy experience as opposed to someone who's,
you know, maybe relatively new and trying to do some
new things. And I think that is important. You know,
there's a big difference between coming up with policy ideas
and actually executing them and executing them, well, how are
you going to get things done? And what do you
say to the people who just want, you know, like
(36:07):
a boring continuation not necessarily of Eric Adams, but you know,
maybe going back a little bit further.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
I understand that desire. It's a desire for normalcy in
a time when politics has become about cronyism and corruption.
And as much as Andrew Cuomo markets himself as a
candidate and a campaign of competence, this is a man
who couldn't even follow basic paperwork requirements to receive millions
of dollars in public matching funds, someone who couldn't write
a housing policy without the assistance of chat GBT, or
(36:37):
even spell the names of his endorsers correctly in his
own press releases. And as much as a phrenetic public
facing schedule as I've been keeping over the last seven months,
I've also been keeping a private schedule where I've been
meeting with deputy mayors and commissioners from a wide variety
of mayoral administrations to speak about the how of it all,
(36:58):
Because an idea is only as good as its implement
and ultimately, it comes back from a desire to build
a team of the best and the brightest, one where
we have a common threat of excellence, of fluency, and
a track record that binds all of those appointments and
those hires, not a common thread of having served together
for twenty years, which is what it seems to have
been with Mayor Adams today. And one additional point I'll
(37:22):
say is that too often the style of leadership we've seen,
whether it's from Andrew Cuomo or Eric Adams, has been
to hire replicas of yourself, to hire people who with
whom you have one hundred percent agreement and who are
the quickest to say yes to any one of your ideas,
be they good or bad. I am not interested in
that style of leadership. I'm interested in a style of
leadership that understands that ultimately the buck stops with me,
(37:43):
and that I have to build a team that speaks
to a wide breath of opinion, of ideology and of
track record, that not everyone is going to look and
sound and be just like me, and that if I
want a DOT commissioner, all I need to agree with
them on is the vision for DOT, not HPD. And
if I want to hire a deputy mayor, they need
not agree with me on my thoughts on foreign policy.
(38:05):
They need only agree with their purview that they're being
hired for. Because it comes back to this notion that
I think Mayor Koch put it best, which is, if
you agree with me on nine out of twelve issues,
vote for me. If you agree with me on twelve
out of twelve, see a psychiatrist. And that speaks to
the need to have room for that disagreement and ultimately
be bound by that pursuit of excellence.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
During the twenty sixteen presidential campaign, it was a Trump
supporter I'm looking up it was actually the founder of
Latinos for Trump who said that if Trump didn't win,
there would be taco trucks on every corner, which sounds
really good to me. You have also proposed neoliberalism for
halal cards, which I really like chicken over rice, so
I'd be very happy to see more of them and
be cheaper. But I'm curious how far you'd extend. So
(38:49):
reduce the permits make it easier to open up.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
Increase the permits.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Oh, increase the number of permits, make it easier, therefore
to get.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
It is true that the Hellal guys in Midtown, I
think the original one. You go by there in the
afternoon and the line stretches around the block. It's kind
of insane.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
They used to say a chicken in every pot. I'm
saying a halal in every hand.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Okay, what about hotels. Their hotel prices are insanely expensive.
Airbnb is no longer legal. I know someone visiting the
city right now who had to get a place in
Jersey City because it's just too crazy. In New York,
it's insanely difficult to build a new hotel, apparently due
to opposition both from existing hotel owners to new hotels
(39:31):
for all reasons and the hotel worker unions. Do you
support liberalized in the same way that we need more
wolog cards? Would you support liberalization of hotel development in
New York City?
Speaker 4 (39:41):
You know I am not as interested in the concerns
of existing hotel owners but I am very interested in
the concerns of hotel workers, and I think that that
is something that I would love to explore. Is there
a way to expand the number of hotels while ensuring
that we also retain the protections for those workers, because
(40:01):
so often we've seen this very fight, and it's going
to be one that will intensify in the next year.
There's contract renegotiations coming to a head during the World Cup,
where hotel owners have put hotel workers on the front
lines of so much of the work without giving them
the pay that is requisite for that. With Airbnb, one
of my concerns has been the transformation of what would
be housing into effectively small scale hotels and the proposal
(40:27):
that they're pushing I think they've currently they're putting I
think more than a million dollars into spending on local races.
Has the prospect of turning a double digit number of
one and two family homes, taking them off of the
market and making them these vacant units.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
I'd just say Tracy, as someone who has lived in
multi family housing my entire life in New York City,
I'm not thrilled with Airbnb because I like to know
who the neighbors are in my building and sometimes you
get loud, noisy, crazy people. Anyway, keep going here.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
I think that's a concern that a lot of people
will share. I have just one more question. It's the
most important and one. But you have a little experience
in Bollywood. I suppose I'm a big Bollywood fan. Everything
I look I know about cricket I learned from Lagan,
which is great film. Yeah, great film. Okay, So here's
my question, Amir Khan or Shower Khan. Cho's one.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Wow, Why why would you do this to me? Amir
Khan for my head? Chau Khan for my heart?
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Yeah, that actually makes a lot of sense to me.
I think I would say a similar thing.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
Well, you know, why didn't we spend the interview on
these questions?
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Do a Bollywood episode.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
I would love to do a Bollywood episode.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Wait for those who don't know what is the Bollywood.
Speaker 4 (41:37):
So the bar's connection is that my mother, her name
is Mirra, and I are She is a filmmaker. She
is an Indian filmmaker who's made a number of films,
my favorite of which is Mississippi Masala and it's not
I actually.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Haven't seen that one. I saw Monsoon Wedding and that
was great.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
Great film, great film. You have to see missip Massala
because it's also the reason that I'm alive. She met
my father while researching for that film.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Huh soar and Mom, Donnie, thank you so much for
coming on the thrilled that we could make it happen.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
Thank you so much, the pleasure to be.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Here, Tracy. If he wins, maybe he'll come back on.
We can do a Bollywood well we have, we'd have
a lots of other stuff to talk about, but I
would definitely, I would definitely. I don't know much about it.
(42:25):
I love Legon, so we should talk more about that. Sometimes.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
I really love Bollywood movies. I need to catch Mississippi Massala.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
I guess, yeah, I mean his mom.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Yeah, yeah, that was obviously a very interesting conversation. I
do think, you know, there's this sort of knee jerk
reaction against socialism in America for you know, reasons or reasons. Yeah,
but you know, examples of some of the stuff do exist,
and I think the b x's and the military commissaries
(42:55):
are a really good example of you know, we do
have subsidized groceries that exist in America, and why not
have them in New York.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
I think a really key thing, which is there's this
bad cycle with the public provision of goods in the US,
which is just that people look at them and don't
think they're particularly well run, and then it's like now
you want to have more, and so it's like, you know,
like I said, I love the New York City Subway.
I take it every day. What I want a grocery
store that sort of resembles the New York City Subway.
(43:26):
Probably not. I'm not saying it would, but I'm saying
this is my experience interfacing with New York City public
goods when I want a grocery store that like resembles
the bathrooms at Tompkins Square Park or has similar No,
not at all. I mean, so I just feel like,
like it's fine. I love living in New York City.
I think these public provisions are great, and some of
them are absolutely incredible, like the libraries. But by and large,
(43:50):
I think that the tenders of public goods, for various reasons,
have not done a great job of like, no, these
are actually really good services.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
That's fair, and obviously the government's core competency is probably
not running grocery stores right, Like they wouldn't have to.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
I wouldn't think. Yeah, they would have to.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
Learn a lot in order to get up to speed.
But my point is, you know, the commissaries at military bases,
they're pretty good, like you can buy everything and service
is great. They still bag your groceries at least the
last time I was there, So examples do exist. All
I'm saying is it's possible for sure.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
You know the other thing and obviously we only had
so much time. Is I'm really interested further in this
tension between Deregulation is good when it's small things like
a log card or a zorn recently didn't add, which
we didn't get around to talking about, how like, you know,
there should be make it easier for bodega owners and
(44:49):
you know, less regulations for them, which sounds great. I like,
I like all of my like the three local bodegas
within a forty five second walk from my apartment. It's great.
But why do those sort of basic principles of sort
of liberalizing the rules around X not then applied to
some of the bigger things such as hotels, which are
(45:10):
insanely expensive in New York or other areas like real estate,
et cetera. He did mention allowing more single family stairs,
so they're all the single family stare nerds on Twitter. Well,
I'm sure be very excited about that also, which we
talked about on episode once.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Yeah, oh yeah we did. Yeah, all right, so this
is actually a.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Core It is a core Odd Lots episode.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
Okay, shall we leave it there.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
Let's leave it there.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
This has been another episode of the Odd Loots podcast.
I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me at Tracy Alloway.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
And I'm Joe Wisenthal. You can follow me at the Stalwart.
Follow our guests zoron Mmdannie He's at zoron k Mamdanie.
Follow our producers Carmen Rodriguez at Carmen Arman, dash Ol
Bennett at Dashbot at Calee Brooks at Cale Brooks. For
more Odd Laws content, go to Bloomberg dot com slash
odd Lots, where we have a daily newsletter and all
of our episodes and you can chat about all of
(46:01):
these topics twenty four to seven in our discord Discord
dot gg slash odlines.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
And if you enjoy odd Lots, if you like it,
when we talk to New York City mayoral candidates. Then
please leave us a positive review on your favorite podcast platform.
And remember, if you are a Bloomberg subscriber, you can
listen to all of our episodes absolutely ad free. All
you need to do is find the Bloomberg channel on
Apple Podcasts and follow the instructions there. Thanks for listening.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello and welcome to another episode of The Odd Lots podcast.
I'm Joe Wisenthal and.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I'm Tracy Alloway.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Tracy, we might get a socialist mayor here in New
York City. Can I tell you something please?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
It's slightly weird. Last night, the night before we're recording
this episode, I had a dream that I was in
a shared uber with Adrian Adams and she was the driver.
So she's another mayoral candidate. She was driving and I
told her we were going to interview this particular candidate.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
And I was amazing.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
I was asking her for good questions.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
This is an amazing dream.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
You're not, maybe, Lissa, No, My dreams are very literal.
And everyone in the uber was giving me ideas for
questions and had opinions and stuff like that. But now
I can't remember any of it.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Oh, that's really disappointing. Anyway. You know, we don't really
cover a lot of New York City politics. We don't
cover a lot of politics in general. We hardly ever
talked about New York City politics. Who really cares about
New York and the broad audience. We don't like to
be too navel gazing. But you know, this is a
city with a lot of people who, needless to say,
(01:22):
work in finance. Potentially, if they're major changes to tax
rates here, etc. Then that could have an impact on
the industry that we cover a lot. There are a
lot of economics stories that are sort of New York centric,
particularly relating to housing, that are very universal, etc. So
it's not a crime to every once in a while
(01:43):
do a New York City focused episode.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
No, and this also relates directly to a previous All
Balts episode we did all about how New York gets
its groceries.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
That's right, that's the connection. Let's jump right into it.
I'm very excited to say we have a state assemblyman
and candidate for the Democratic nomination for mayor, Zoron, Mumdanie
coming on the show. Zoron, thank you so much for
coming on.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I mentioned your socialist. What specific strand of socialism are
you and are the other socialists revisionists and deviationists of
various flavor. We need to know your exact the exact
category here.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
I will leave that to the internet. Will I will
tell you that I am a Democratic socialist, yes, And
I started to call myself that after Bernie Sanders' twenty
sixteen run for president, when I finally had a language
described the way that I saw the world and the
way that I believe the world should be, which is
one where every person has the dignity they need to
live a decent life.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
By the way, you know, now that I am a
journalist at a mainstream news organization, I do not personally
have political opinions, but I can say that I didn't
wasn't always the case. And I went to high school
in Vermont, and I was a volunteer on Bernie's nineteen
ninety six house campaign, and want was a picture of
me with Bernie. So I was a very early you too.
I was a Bernard Brother before it became cool.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Yes, you got in early.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
So how would you describe your platform? Is it the
New York version of Sanders.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
It's heavily inspired by that same focus on income inequality
and a recognition of the fact that one in four
New Yorkers are currently living in poverty in what has
now been described as the most expensive city in the country.
And it is a platform at its core to make
this city affordable and to use every tool at city
government's disposal to do so, because for too long we've
(03:33):
had politicians pretend that we are just bystanders to a
suffocating cost of living crisis, when in fact, we have
two choices, whether to exacerbate it or put an end
to it. And we've seen Eric Adams do the former.
We're running to do the latter.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
What did Eric Adams do when you said he did
the former, what did he do in your view to
exacerbate it?
Speaker 4 (03:50):
You know, the first issue that you hear from most
New Yorkers when it comes to cost of living is housing,
and the mayor sets the rent increases for more than
two million New Yorkers who live in rent stabilized housing.
And he came in as a self described real estate
That's how he described himself coming into the office. And
he's raised rents accordingly. He's raised them more than nine percent.
And this year when the Rent Guidelines Board, which is
(04:12):
entirely composed of his appointees, found that the landlords of
those million or so units that have close to two
and a half million tenants had seen a increase in
their revenues by twelve percent. He wanted to raise the
rent once again to close to eight percent. And that
is one example. Another I would say is his relationship
to con Edison. Connetison can only raise the rates of
(04:34):
gas and electric with the permission of the state, and
they do so through something called a rate case. The
City of New York under Eric Adams administration sided with
Walmart in support of Connettison's requests to raise those rates
by sixty five dollars a month on average. And I
know that because I was also a part of that
rate case, one of the few elected officials who signed
an opposition to it. And I think that you can
(04:54):
see this again and again and again in the way
that he has intervened in the major costs that are
driving New Yorkers out of the city.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
So, since you mentioned housing and the rent freeze, you
support rent freeze, lower rents? And what do you say
to people who think that you need to incentivize landlords
to maintain their buildings to build new ones. There are
also people out there who think that regulatory reform is
the key to the supply problem in New York. Why
(05:22):
rent freezes particularly versus you know, maybe loosening some of
the regulations.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
I think that many of these things can actually be
achieved in tandem. I am both a candidate who believes
we need to freeze the rent for rent stabilized tenants,
and one who believes that we need to end the
requirement to build parking lots when reconstruct housing, who believes
we need to increase density around mass transit hubs, that
we need to upzone wealthier neighborhoods that have historically not
contributed to affordable housing production, and we need to interrogate
(05:49):
why Tokyo is building ten homes for every thousand people,
Jersey cities at seven and New York is barely at four.
And some of that also has to do with what
is often described as the mundane details of houses law,
but can have massive impacts on whether or not it's
affordable or expensive to construct that housing, be it single
staircase versus dual staircase, or the regulations that have effectively
(06:10):
made it illegal to build SROs in this city, and
the need for us to have a true diversity of
housing stock. And I think the reason for the focus
on our rent freeze is that is the clearest and
most direct way that you start your housing platform as
the mayor of the city, given your appointing of all
nine members of that Rent Guidelines Board. But it cannot
(06:30):
be the extent of it, because a city of eight
point four eight million people deserves a mayor with a
housing platform for eight point four eight million people, not
just the closes two and a half million that live
in those units. And the other point I would make
is that I have served in Albany. I'm now in
my third term, and I've seen in Albany, while I
have opposed it, we have passed legislation that allowed landlords
(06:52):
to double the amount of money they can receive for iais,
which are otherwise known as individual apartment improvements. So to
your concern around incentive devising, repairs and things of that nature,
landlords have already just won the right to double the
amount of money they can receive for those improvements. And
I was in opposition to that doubling because of the
immense amount of fraud that we've seen in that kind
(07:14):
of program, where expenses are not actually what they are
represented to be. And the final thing I would say is,
you know, the Rent Guidelines had that findings of the
twelve percent increase in revenue for those landlords. If there
are landlords for whom that picture is not an accurate representation,
there is a program where they can apply a hardship
program for relief when they show that their income from
(07:35):
rents is not matching up to their costs at a
ratio that is allowing them to continue to operate that building.
And that is a program that I will intend to
continue to support because I believe it is important to
ensure that we can keep all of these buildings in operation.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I've heard that about Jersey City, that they've actually done
a fairly good job of expanding housing supply. What is
the role in your vision for more affordable housing for
the price it developers and the for profit developers and
so forth, and you know, in your view, how can
we actually move the dial in terms of housing production
(08:09):
of we'll get into some of the stuff about I
want to talk about the public housing too, or quote
affordable housing. But for the private landlords, what can actually
in your view move the dial on that.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
I think some of it has to do with the regulations.
I was speaking of the fact that we continue to
have this requirement to build parking when you build housing.
That's not a requirement we should have any longer. The
need for us to take advantage of our unique place
in this country, and that we have mass transit hubs
across the city and that should be a site of
more housing density, and the fact that housing production has
(08:41):
not been evenly distributed across this city, especially in wealthier neighborhoods.
But I think even beyond that question of zoning, which
is what a lot of this comes back to, there's
also the question of process. We need to make it
faster to build this housing yeah, and ensure that we
don't see delay after delay after delay. And so one
of the points of our housing plan is also to
(09:02):
move away from the piecemeal process that is the one
you can describe today as being where you have something
known as member deference, where every city council member has
the ultimate vote on whether or not a development goes
up or down. We need to have a citywide approach,
one that also fast tracks developments that are in line
with the very priorities we've laid out with regards to
(09:24):
housing production, labor standards, affordability. Because it's been too long
where we've seen proposals to build affordable housing for low
income seniors languish for years in delays, and those delays
all cost money, and that's also what drives up the
cost of this production, and I think we need to
streamline those processes.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Actually, let's talk about that a little bit further. Because
public housing, which you want to expand significantly, is very
costly to build. And you know, there are certain standards
of public housing. We expect it to last a very
long time. There's priorities that it be carbon friendly, et cetera.
But like public housing production in New York City has
(10:06):
been on parer cost wise with even some very high
end private construction, Hudson Yards on a per unit basis
came in pretty similarly, this would be important regardless of
how it's financed. How do you actually get the costs
down in your view of public housing production.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
So the first thing I would do is just distinguish
between what kind of housing we're speaking of when we
say public housing, A lot of times we're referring to
Nischa developments. Yeah, across the fire.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
That's when I said it. I was thinking, nice, okay.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Just to be clear, and I think that you know,
what we've seen in Nischa is in many ways emblematic
of a larger betrayal of working class New Yorkers. Nischa
is technically underneath the auspices of the federal government, but
the city and the state have an immense role to play,
and we've seen over time, while the federal government has
refused to fund the plan to put at least forty
(10:59):
billion dollars towards Nischa to deal with an ever expanding
amount of capital needs, the city since the time of
Bloomberg has started to narrow the amount of funding that
it provides, and the state is not stepping up in
the way that it should. Now in our housing plan,
we propose doubling the amount of money we spend on
preserving Nischa housing because what we've seen is that oftentimes
(11:21):
it's easy to describe this housing crisis in New York
City is solely one of affordability, it's also a crisis
of having a safe and habitable place to call your home.
And as someone who represents the largest public housing development
in North America, Queensbridge Houses, as well as the story
of Houses Ravenswood Houses, I have seen so many of
my constituents, seniors who are forced to walk up many
(11:42):
flights of stairs because their elevator isn't working. Who are
waiting for months to have repairs be conducted, and who
in a moment of housing crisis. Under Eric Adams, we've
actually seen the time it takes to fill a vacant
unit in Nischa now exceed more than a year, which
should be the easiest thing for city government.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Today, I want to talk about another plank of your
platform that is of particular interest to us, and that
(12:21):
is groceries. Of course, so a while ago, Joe and
I recorded an episode on how New York actually gets
its produce and we learned about the importance of the
Hunt's distribution terminal and all of that. Why grocery stores.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
You know, we are focused on the cost of living crisis,
and when you ask New Yorkers whether they're making forty
thousand dollars a year or two hundred thousand dollars a year,
you will inevitably hear them speak about groceries and the
sticker shock they feel in going back to the grocery
store and their sense that that which they could afford
years ago is now out of reach for them. And ultimately,
(12:57):
groceries and food are a non negotiable art of being
a New Yorker and living in any city in the world,
you need to be able to afford it to build
any kind of a life. And yet what we're seeing
is that people are being priced out of produce. And
when something is critically important to that dignity, I believe
that there should be a public option for it. And
what we have proposed is a reasonable policy experimentation in
(13:21):
our city of a pilot program of a network of
five municipal owned grocery stores, one in each borough, that
would respond to twin crises, one of affordability and two
of food deserts. Because, as I was saying earlier, as
the representative of Queensbridge Houses, I will speak to constituents
who live in the largest public housing development in North America,
and they will ask me questions for which I don't
(13:41):
have the answer, Questions like why are there five fast
food restaurants in a five block radius, but I cannot
find a place where I can get fresh produce that
I can afford. And I hear that time and time again.
And so what this proposal does is it not only
guarantees cheaper groceries, but it also guarantees that those groceries
can be in the very neighborhoods of New Yorkers that
(14:02):
are being denied that service today.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
So some commentators have described this proposal as somewhat unusual
in America. I actually don't think it's that unusual. I'm
a former military brat and I vividly remember commissaries and
bx's on military bases and those were subsidized. Anyway, how
do you, I guess, address the fears of critics who
(14:25):
worry that this is going to devolve into some sort
of Soviet style market where you know, maybe I can
only buy one specific brand of tuna fish versus like
the five that are currently on offer.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Well, the beauty of a pilot program is that it
only expands if it's successful. Now, I'm confident that it
will be successful, and yet we will have to see
those results themselves. And the reason we even came up
with this is because of the successes of this model
in Kansas, as well as what you said in the
context of military bases across the country. And what we've
also found is there was a feasibility study done in
(14:59):
Chicago to see the applicability of this kind of a
model in an urban setting, and it found it not
only possible, but urgent and necessary. And that is the
exact kind of approach we have to take here. And
I think what's been quite interesting to me is state government,
in the time that I've been there, has had a
similar recognition, but on a different topic, where it's said
(15:20):
that gas prices are something that we can only allow
to get up to a certain point, and when they
go beyond that, we need to subsidize it to ensure
that it's affordable. In twenty twenty two, the state spent
more than six hundred million dollars to suspend portions of
the gas tax. And yet we are watching as New
Yorkers are being priced out of bread and milk and eggs,
(15:43):
and we are saying that this is beyond our control.
And I think the last point I would make here
is that our proposal is one that would cost sixty
million dollars for all of those five together. That is
less than half of the money the city is already
spending on a program called City the Fresh, which will
subsidize corporate supermarkets in the hopes that they provide affordable groceries,
(16:06):
but with no guarantee to that, and with no requirement
for them to accept snap or WICK, or to engage
in collective bargaining, or to actually guarantee those cheaper groceries.
So this is going to save the city money while
piloting a program that we are confident will actually deliver
the results that we have been denied in that existing
program today.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
All right, I have two specific questions on this. One
is I understand and I find intuitively logical the idea
that people should be able to afford produce and it's
food has gotten very expensive at the grocery store. But
grocery store margins themselves are pretty thin. So yeah, So
in terms of like actually using the grocery store channel
(16:47):
to deliver these cost savings, given that the retail storage
margins are so thin, just three percent, why is that
the dial rather than I don't know, give people a
voucher so that they can order fresh direct or something
like that.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
You know, I am someone who has been skeptical of
the efficacy of a voucher based model, And what I
am proposing with this idea of a network of municipal
ow and grocery stores is not a means by which
the city would make money and be able to increase
that profit market is like.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
The grocery level margins seem very thin. Now, I know
you're not trying to make money. I'm just saying the
margin seemed thinned. So if I think, like what moves
the dial significantly on affordability, the actual retail level grocery
does not strike me as where the big optional opportunity is.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
I think the opportunity we have with a city run
model is that we can actually guarantee those cost savings. Right.
We have heard national chains and executives speak on earning
calls about how they've been able to blame covid era
supply chain costs to increase profit margins even further. And
what this would be as a clear mandate from the
city that every single dollar we save we pass on.
(17:55):
But beyond that, given that the mandate is not a
profit based one, that we can also pass on further
savings to ensure that things like milk and eggs and
bread are actually affordable.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
So the other thing, and you sort of anticipated this question,
which is you mentioned, for example, that in existing Nightscha
housing people are waiting for a long time to get
an elevator repaired and so forth. How do you ensure
operational success because I think people would say, oh, I've
seen how Nightcha housing works. I guess I'm going to
(18:27):
know how a city, a New York City run grocery
store is going to work. And who knows if it's
going to be open, and who knows if they're going to,
you know, keep the refrigerators repaired, or if they're going
to have tomatoes one day. I'm just saying, like, you
have already confirmed the idea that certain city run things
are not run particularly well. So why should we Why
(18:47):
should the public have confidence that, even setting aside price,
that these would be like run well, run efficiently.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
I have to earn the public's trust and I will
do that every single day as the mayor of the city.
And if if you believe in public goods in public service,
as I do, it behooves you to believe in just
as much in public excellence. And the first charges that
you must have is to tackle that which has not
displayed that excellence. I think Nischa is an example of that.
I also think one of the reasons why I focus
(19:15):
so much on the MTA in my time in the
State Assembly has been because that's another example of that
where we have a world class city and we do
not have world class public transit. I love our public transit,
I love our trains, our buses, I love riding a
city bike, and yet I know that the way in
which we are running it could be so much better.
And what has excited me is that we've seen glimpses
(19:38):
of what that excellence could look like. I mean, I
remember when I went in to get my vaccine for COVID.
I was in and out of that facility in fifteen minutes,
and that, to me was an example of the public
sector being able to match the efficiencies we often hear
about when we describe the private sector. I think about Nischa,
which today is a story of disinvestment and of so
(19:59):
many New Yorkers being left behind, could also be a
story closer to the one of how they developed the
minifridge in this country because it was a direct result
of an RFP that was put out or a story. Yeah,
And I think there's also a story today to be
told about woodside houses, which is a niche development that
is piloting a large scale installation of heat pumps that
(20:19):
has been shown to both increase the quality of life
but also decrease the carbon emissions and the cost, and
ultimately that is what we need to show New Yorkers.
We have to earn their trust, and the best way
to earn their trust is to deliver the results that
we're confident we can with these ideas.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Just one more question on the grocery stores. So I
take the point about their purpose is not to make
money for the government, obviously, but how would you actually
judge the success of them.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
I would judge the success in their provision of affordable groceries.
I would judge their success in them meeting a need
that is currently being left unmet. And I think that
also means in the location of those stores, that they
actually provide a grosser restore in a place where currently
it is too difficult to find any of that produce,
and that their prices are as we are discussing them,
(21:06):
significantly more affordable and more in line with where New
Yorkers are actually able to spend.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
I want to talk more about public excellence in the
provision of public goods.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
My Bernard brother, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
I am an avid utilizer of many of the public
goods that New York City provides. My kids are in
public school. They go to the park almost every day.
We ride the bus together, we ride the subway together.
I don't think the subway and the bus are as
bad as some people say. It's certainly not as bad
as the impression I would get if I didn't live
(21:40):
here and now were watching Fox News about New York City. Nonetheless,
there has been an increase in crime over the last
several years. I think it's come down recently, but there
is a fair amount of disrepair. My impression is when
I think about public goods in general, which is that
people on the left really like to talk about them
and how important they are, and then generally do not
(22:03):
seem as committed to sort of like product excellence as
I would expect for them to say, be politically sustainable.
Like I said, I feel very safe. I live in
the East Village, I commute up here. I generally feel
very safe. But you know, like I see needles on
the playground at Tompkins Square Park. There are bathrooms that
are almost never open or functional. They're smoking on the
(22:27):
subway from time to time. It's not the end of
the world, but it's not very pleasant, especially when you
have kids. And I'm curious like what your view is about,
like what seems to be a sort of tension between
excellent provision of public goods and some of the law
and order, as people would call it, requirements for them
to be clean, friendly, excellent places.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
You know, I think we on the left have to
make it clear that quality of life is of immense
concern to us, because when we are fighting for public goods,
for public service, for public excellence, at the core of
it is that belief that everyone should have an excellent
quality of life. And yet what has happened in the
last few years is that this term has almost been
made to be understood as if it is solely a
(23:10):
conservative concern, when in fact, this is at the heart
of what we're fighting.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
It feels to me, like, to be honest, that the
left has conceded that that actually the part of the
reason it's become a sort of conservative coded term is
because I perceive, and tell me if I'm wrong, it's fine,
but I perceive a certain discomfort about some of the
hard choices or some of the you know more, maybe
carcerole is the right word, law and order whatever that
(23:38):
would contribute to making some of these public goods safer
and clean.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Well, I think what we have to make clear is
that those are not the only choices on offer, and
yet we do have to still respond to that same crisis.
And so often, as you were describing living in New
York City, you have a different understanding than if you
were to view it through the prism of social media
or TV. And yet we can say two things at once,
which is that there is an immense amount of fear
(24:02):
mongering and that we still have to deliver world class goods,
which we are far from doing today. And I say
that as someone who loves our subway system and who
knows that when you ask New Yorkers where they feel
least safe in the city, you oftentimes hear those same words,
It's the subway system. And that's why at the heart
of our campaign is a proposal to deliver that same
(24:25):
public safety that New Yorkers have been denied under Eric Adams,
a mayor who ran in twenty twenty one, telling those
same New Yorkers they need not choose between safety and justice.
He's shown himself unable to deliver the former, uninterested in
delivering the latter. And what we've said is that we
will create a Department of Community Safety, the DCS, which
understands that police have a critical role to play in
(24:47):
public safety, and we are currently relying on them to
respond to almost every single failure of the social safety net,
asking them to do the work of social workers and
mental health professionals, a reliance that has made it nearly
impossible for them to actually do their jobs. And we
can see that in their inability to raise their clearance
rates of the major seven categories of crime. And so
(25:07):
what our DCS will do is tackle five key issues homelessness,
mental health crisis, gun violence, hate crimes, and victim services
and will learn from the evidence proven models that have
been successful elsewhere in the country in responding to these
very issues and doing so in America that provides public
safety and frees up the police.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
So another part of your platform is raising the corporate
tax rate, raising income tax for millionaires. And I think
one of the things we are all perhaps internalizing this
week as we watch Washington, DC and the big beautiful
bill currently going through its process, is that raising taxes
on the rich seems to be really, really difficult in America.
(26:08):
Maybe New York is different, Maybe New Yorkers feel differently
about it. But I guess my question is a why
do you think it seems so difficult? And then be
how can you actually overcome that particular hurdle.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Just to take on You actually need state permission to
do that, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
You do. You need to work with the state, and ultimately,
the city is a creature of the state, and any
agenda you have as a mayor that seeks to match
the scale of the crisis New Yorkers are living through
will require Albany. When we wanted to create universal pre k,
we required Albany. When we wanted congestion pricing, we required Albany.
(26:49):
And I think again, and again and again you will
look at any of the most ambitious parts of any
candidate's plans and it will require Albany. When I came
into office in twenty twenty, one of the first battles
that I helped to lead was to raise taxes on
the most profitable corporations and the wealthiest New Yorkers so
that we could fully fund our public schools. And we
(27:09):
eventually did so over the objections of then Governor Cuomo,
raising about four billion dollars, and that allowed us to
fulfill the legal requirement of the Campaign for Fiscal Equity,
a landmark case with regards to fully funding public schools.
And I think it's difficult in Washington, and it's difficult
for a number of politicians to raise taxes on the
rich when those politicians are also funded by the rich,
(27:32):
because ultimately that clash between the interests of their donors
and the interest of their constituents is one that they
will oftentimes pick their donors. And we've seen that with
Andrew Cuomo. He speaks a big game about fighting for
working people, but he is funded by the same billionaires
that fund Donald Trump. We've just seen Bill Ackman give
his super pack two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and
(27:53):
we continue to see that even with him receiving a
million dollar donation from DoorDash looking to very clearly purchase
influencer around labor and street safety regulations. And I think
there is a real possibility of doing so, not only
because it's one of the most popular things when you
pull it amongst New Yorkers and amongst Americans, but because
it's needed to pay for an agenda that will transform
(28:15):
the quality of life not only for working class New Yorkers,
not only for middle class New Yorkers, but even for
the wealthy. You hear this concern about the degradation of
city services, and our proposal is one that meets the
earlier conversation we were having about the necessity for a
public good to be so excellent that even the wealthy
use it and delivers that with regards to buses, with
(28:36):
regards to childcare, and with so many of the city
services that will keep this city running.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
If you're unable to raise the tax rate for whatever reason,
how much of your policy proposal is not viable any longer,
And how do you actually prioritize the different things that
you are proposing.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
So I'm confident in our ability to raise it because
I've seen in every year that I've been in Albany
twenty one that the legislature has in its own budget
proposals proposed, those increases on income taxes for the wealthiest
New Yorkers and on raising the top corporate tax rate.
And just for one moment, if I can explain what
those proposals are. Our proposal is to raise the top
(29:16):
state corporate tax rate to match that of the radical
socialist utopia of New Jersey. Is seven point twenty five
percent here in New York to match theirs of eleven
point five percent. That's a tax that applies to the
topmost level of profitable corporations. We're talking about their profits
millions of dollars, and it would raise five billion dollars
(29:36):
just in doing so. The second part of the tax plan,
which would raise four billion dollars, would be to increase
New York City's income tax rate on the top one
percent of income owners. We're talking about people who make
a million dollars or more a year by a flat
two percent increase, so a twenty thousand dollars increase, which
is what I would argue a rounding error when you're
looking at it within that larger context. Those two things
(29:58):
together raise nine billion dollars, and then we raise an
additional billion through good government reforms, whether we're talking about
procurement or hiring fiscal auditors, or actually collecting the fines
and fees that New York City is owed. So that's
our fiscal policy of how we raised ten billion. Now,
you always have to prepare for every eventuality. The city
also has about three billion dollars in its rainy day
fund and its reserves combined. It also, in times of
(30:21):
economic growth, as we've generally seen in the last few years,
sees its budget increase by two to three billion dollars.
So there are a lot of different opportunities. And the
final thing I will say is, we have a city
budget of one hundred and fifteen billion dollars. I am
not confident that Eric Adams has been spending every one
of those dollars in the most productive way. And one
(30:41):
of the first things that I will do when I
get into city Hall JOJ but no, I mean to
be honest with you. It is a regret of mine
that we have allowed someone like Elon Musk to use
the language of fraud and inefficiency and waste for his
own end of personal benefit, when really, if we care
(31:02):
about public goods and public service, we should be ensuring
that it is the most efficient spending of those dollars.
And I think when we look, especially at the way
in which we've hollowed out public capacity to instead replace
it with private consultants, there's an immense amount of money
to be saved, especially if we're looking specifically at the
DOE and how much of our reliance on curricula procurement
(31:24):
has to do more with who we've already been procuring
with and not having any standardized approach when it should
also be a universal approach across the department that ensures
we both save money and deliver excellence.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
I want to ask another politics question. I don't really
like to talk policy, but I think this is actually
an important to mention. After the recent general election twenty
twenty four, and with clear that Democrats performed worse than
they historically have among non white voters all around the country,
there's this big debate about why, and the left says,
are the centrist you failed to talk to the working
(31:57):
class and the centris It's like, no, it's because you've
made us talk about pronow and that repelled people, et cetera.
I'm actually not that interested in that question right now.
I'm interested that intra left left candidates actually have not
done particularly well, mentioned Bernie among poorer voters, among non
white voters, among polling. I'm not going to ask you
(32:17):
about your own polling per se, but I saw a
poll that said you were pulling at eight percent among
black voters, with Andrew Cuomo having done a lot better.
It seems like left politics in this country. It appeals
to educated white people, many of them who probably work
in newsrooms. I haven't pulled the Bloomberg newsroom, but you know,
stuff like that. Why do you think that is why
(32:38):
have general Left candidates, whether it's the primary level, et cetera,
or even just looking at you know, New York City
mayoral polling, not had more progress among what is arguably
the core base of the Democratic Party.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
You know, I think these polls that we're speaking about
right now with regards to New York City continue to
be polls that are more reflective of name recognition than
they are of support. And what I mean by that
is Andrew Cuomo is a former governor who is the
son of a former governor, and when I speak to
many New Yorkers who support him, I almost always hear
the word Mario in their answer. And what I'm proud
(33:16):
of is that we are the only campaign other than
Cuomo to have broken double digits with every single ethnic
group across the city.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
But you know, like even like on say like unionization,
there's a lot of excitement among unionization of Grand students,
for example, but you know that's not what we think
of as like, you know, the sort of like industrial
beating heart of the labor movement, et cetera. It does
seem to be a phenomenon. There's sort of more left
culture or sort of left economic policies have taken hold
(33:43):
more among educated whites.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
Well, look, I think you can look at DC thirty
seven for an example. This is the largest municipal union
in our city, and they represent the workers who actually
keep this city moving. They are by and large black
and brown New Yorkers, and they explicitly chose not to
endorse Andrew Cuomo because he created Tier six, a new
category in the pension program that took more than one
(34:06):
hundred thousand dollars out from working class New Yorkers' pockets
and made them retire later after having served this city
in state for decades. And I was proud to receive
their endorsement, and I think that it shows me the
path here is one where every single day over these
next thirty four days, we are going to continue to
increase our support where we have seen ourselves, for example,
(34:29):
just break twenty percent in support with Latino voters. And
that is indicative of the fact that the very New
Yorkers who know Cuomo the most are the ones who've
been failed by his policies the most as well. And
that is a responsibility for my campaign and every campaign
to showcase his actual record of cutting medicaid, stealing money
from the MTA to fund upstate ski resorts, hounding the
(34:51):
more than ten women who courageously stepped forward to accuse
him of sexual harassment, and in many ways echoing a
Donald Trump style record. And that's what we will seek
to do, both at the doors the more than five
hundred and fifty thousand we've knocked so far, and on
cable and broadcasts and mailers, because we have now raised
eight million dollars, the most amount of money we can
legally spend in this race, faster than any campaign in history,
(35:13):
and podcasts, I guess, yes, this this is actually our
master plan. Yeah, it all comes down to odd lots,
thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
So I'm going to cook that.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
So I just remembered something from my dream. Actually, So
one of the passengers said that what he wanted was
basically this is not a real passenger, but I think
it's reflective of some things that you actually do here
in New York. But he said what he wants is
basically boring, old competency in a mayor so an administrator
(35:45):
that has lots of policy experience as opposed to someone who's,
you know, maybe relatively new and trying to do some
new things. And I think that is important. You know,
there's a big difference between coming up with policy ideas
and actually executing them and executing them, well, how are
you going to get things done? And what do you
say to the people who just want, you know, like
(36:07):
a boring continuation not necessarily of Eric Adams, but you know,
maybe going back a little bit further.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
I understand that desire. It's a desire for normalcy in
a time when politics has become about cronyism and corruption.
And as much as Andrew Cuomo markets himself as a
candidate and a campaign of competence, this is a man
who couldn't even follow basic paperwork requirements to receive millions
of dollars in public matching funds, someone who couldn't write
a housing policy without the assistance of chat GBT, or
(36:37):
even spell the names of his endorsers correctly in his
own press releases. And as much as a phrenetic public
facing schedule as I've been keeping over the last seven months,
I've also been keeping a private schedule where I've been
meeting with deputy mayors and commissioners from a wide variety
of mayoral administrations to speak about the how of it all,
(36:58):
Because an idea is only as good as its implement
and ultimately, it comes back from a desire to build
a team of the best and the brightest, one where
we have a common threat of excellence, of fluency, and
a track record that binds all of those appointments and
those hires, not a common thread of having served together
for twenty years, which is what it seems to have
been with Mayor Adams today. And one additional point I'll
(37:22):
say is that too often the style of leadership we've seen,
whether it's from Andrew Cuomo or Eric Adams, has been
to hire replicas of yourself, to hire people who with
whom you have one hundred percent agreement and who are
the quickest to say yes to any one of your ideas,
be they good or bad. I am not interested in
that style of leadership. I'm interested in a style of
leadership that understands that ultimately the buck stops with me,
(37:43):
and that I have to build a team that speaks
to a wide breath of opinion, of ideology and of
track record, that not everyone is going to look and
sound and be just like me, and that if I
want a DOT commissioner, all I need to agree with
them on is the vision for DOT, not HPD. And
if I want to hire a deputy mayor, they need
not agree with me on my thoughts on foreign policy.
(38:05):
They need only agree with their purview that they're being
hired for. Because it comes back to this notion that
I think Mayor Koch put it best, which is, if
you agree with me on nine out of twelve issues,
vote for me. If you agree with me on twelve
out of twelve, see a psychiatrist. And that speaks to
the need to have room for that disagreement and ultimately
be bound by that pursuit of excellence.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
During the twenty sixteen presidential campaign, it was a Trump
supporter I'm looking up it was actually the founder of
Latinos for Trump who said that if Trump didn't win,
there would be taco trucks on every corner, which sounds
really good to me. You have also proposed neoliberalism for
halal cards, which I really like chicken over rice, so
I'd be very happy to see more of them and
be cheaper. But I'm curious how far you'd extend. So
(38:49):
reduce the permits make it easier to open up.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
Increase the permits.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Oh, increase the number of permits, make it easier, therefore
to get.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
It is true that the Hellal guys in Midtown, I
think the original one. You go by there in the
afternoon and the line stretches around the block. It's kind
of insane.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
They used to say a chicken in every pot. I'm
saying a halal in every hand.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Okay, what about hotels. Their hotel prices are insanely expensive.
Airbnb is no longer legal. I know someone visiting the
city right now who had to get a place in
Jersey City because it's just too crazy. In New York,
it's insanely difficult to build a new hotel, apparently due
to opposition both from existing hotel owners to new hotels
(39:31):
for all reasons and the hotel worker unions. Do you
support liberalized in the same way that we need more
wolog cards? Would you support liberalization of hotel development in
New York City?
Speaker 4 (39:41):
You know I am not as interested in the concerns
of existing hotel owners but I am very interested in
the concerns of hotel workers, and I think that that
is something that I would love to explore. Is there
a way to expand the number of hotels while ensuring
that we also retain the protections for those workers, because
(40:01):
so often we've seen this very fight, and it's going
to be one that will intensify in the next year.
There's contract renegotiations coming to a head during the World Cup,
where hotel owners have put hotel workers on the front
lines of so much of the work without giving them
the pay that is requisite for that. With Airbnb, one
of my concerns has been the transformation of what would
be housing into effectively small scale hotels and the proposal
(40:27):
that they're pushing I think they've currently they're putting I
think more than a million dollars into spending on local races.
Has the prospect of turning a double digit number of
one and two family homes, taking them off of the
market and making them these vacant units.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
I'd just say Tracy, as someone who has lived in
multi family housing my entire life in New York City,
I'm not thrilled with Airbnb because I like to know
who the neighbors are in my building and sometimes you
get loud, noisy, crazy people. Anyway, keep going here.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
I think that's a concern that a lot of people
will share. I have just one more question. It's the
most important and one. But you have a little experience
in Bollywood. I suppose I'm a big Bollywood fan. Everything
I look I know about cricket I learned from Lagan,
which is great film. Yeah, great film. Okay, So here's
my question, Amir Khan or Shower Khan. Cho's one.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Wow, Why why would you do this to me? Amir
Khan for my head? Chau Khan for my heart?
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Yeah, that actually makes a lot of sense to me.
I think I would say a similar thing.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
Well, you know, why didn't we spend the interview on
these questions?
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Do a Bollywood episode.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
I would love to do a Bollywood episode.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Wait for those who don't know what is the Bollywood.
Speaker 4 (41:37):
So the bar's connection is that my mother, her name
is Mirra, and I are She is a filmmaker. She
is an Indian filmmaker who's made a number of films,
my favorite of which is Mississippi Masala and it's not
I actually.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Haven't seen that one. I saw Monsoon Wedding and that
was great.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
Great film, great film. You have to see missip Massala
because it's also the reason that I'm alive. She met
my father while researching for that film.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Huh soar and Mom, Donnie, thank you so much for
coming on the thrilled that we could make it happen.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
Thank you so much, the pleasure to be.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Here, Tracy. If he wins, maybe he'll come back on.
We can do a Bollywood well we have, we'd have
a lots of other stuff to talk about, but I
would definitely, I would definitely. I don't know much about it.
(42:25):
I love Legon, so we should talk more about that. Sometimes.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
I really love Bollywood movies. I need to catch Mississippi Massala.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
I guess, yeah, I mean his mom.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Yeah, yeah, that was obviously a very interesting conversation. I
do think, you know, there's this sort of knee jerk
reaction against socialism in America for you know, reasons or reasons. Yeah,
but you know, examples of some of the stuff do exist,
and I think the b x's and the military commissaries
(42:55):
are a really good example of you know, we do
have subsidized groceries that exist in America, and why not
have them in New York.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
I think a really key thing, which is there's this
bad cycle with the public provision of goods in the US,
which is just that people look at them and don't
think they're particularly well run, and then it's like now
you want to have more, and so it's like, you know,
like I said, I love the New York City Subway.
I take it every day. What I want a grocery
store that sort of resembles the New York City Subway.
(43:26):
Probably not. I'm not saying it would, but I'm saying
this is my experience interfacing with New York City public
goods when I want a grocery store that like resembles
the bathrooms at Tompkins Square Park or has similar No,
not at all. I mean, so I just feel like,
like it's fine. I love living in New York City.
I think these public provisions are great, and some of
them are absolutely incredible, like the libraries. But by and large,
(43:50):
I think that the tenders of public goods, for various reasons,
have not done a great job of like, no, these
are actually really good services.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
That's fair, and obviously the government's core competency is probably
not running grocery stores right, Like they wouldn't have to.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
I wouldn't think. Yeah, they would have to.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
Learn a lot in order to get up to speed.
But my point is, you know, the commissaries at military bases,
they're pretty good, like you can buy everything and service
is great. They still bag your groceries at least the
last time I was there, So examples do exist. All
I'm saying is it's possible for sure.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
You know the other thing and obviously we only had
so much time. Is I'm really interested further in this
tension between Deregulation is good when it's small things like
a log card or a zorn recently didn't add, which
we didn't get around to talking about, how like, you know,
there should be make it easier for bodega owners and
(44:49):
you know, less regulations for them, which sounds great. I like,
I like all of my like the three local bodegas
within a forty five second walk from my apartment. It's great.
But why do those sort of basic principles of sort
of liberalizing the rules around X not then applied to
some of the bigger things such as hotels, which are
(45:10):
insanely expensive in New York or other areas like real estate,
et cetera. He did mention allowing more single family stairs,
so they're all the single family stare nerds on Twitter. Well,
I'm sure be very excited about that also, which we
talked about on episode once.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Yeah, oh yeah we did. Yeah, all right, so this
is actually a.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Core It is a core Odd Lots episode.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
Okay, shall we leave it there.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
Let's leave it there.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
This has been another episode of the Odd Loots podcast.
I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me at Tracy Alloway.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
And I'm Joe Wisenthal. You can follow me at the Stalwart.
Follow our guests zoron Mmdannie He's at zoron k Mamdanie.
Follow our producers Carmen Rodriguez at Carmen Arman, dash Ol
Bennett at Dashbot at Calee Brooks at Cale Brooks. For
more Odd Laws content, go to Bloomberg dot com slash
odd Lots, where we have a daily newsletter and all
of our episodes and you can chat about all of
(46:01):
these topics twenty four to seven in our discord Discord
dot gg slash odlines.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
And if you enjoy odd Lots, if you like it,
when we talk to New York City mayoral candidates. Then
please leave us a positive review on your favorite podcast platform.
And remember, if you are a Bloomberg subscriber, you can
listen to all of our episodes absolutely ad free. All
you need to do is find the Bloomberg channel on
Apple Podcasts and follow the instructions there. Thanks for listening.
Hosts And Creators
Joe Weisenthal
Tracy Alloway
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