April 20, 2023 • 35 mins
More than 30 years ago, a new mom, tinkered with creating lipsticks from her bedroom in a New York City suburb, found a chemist who manufactured it for her and they split the $15 earned per tube, evenly. So it began Bobbi Brown’s journey that made her a global, household name. Bobbi sold her company in 1995, and after waiting out a 25-year non-compete period, she is back for her second innings. She recently launched Jones Road, a clean beauty brand. Bobbi admits it is not for everyone. It’s for those who want to enhance their natural beauty - the no-makeup-makeup look. In this episode, Bobbi talks about her phenomenal career, why family remains her strength, what makes a woman beautiful and the story behind WTF, her new foundation which is such a rage.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi, and welcome back to Out of Office. I'm your host,
Malika Kapoor. Before we begin, I have a confession. I
am a huge fan of my next guest. In fact,
I have been for years, and I'm thrilled she's joining
me on my podcast to talk about her phenomenal career
as a globally renowned makeup artist, entrepreneur and founder. Please
(00:25):
join me in welcoming Bobby Brown. Bobby Brown became a
household name when she launched her makeup brand under her
name in nineteen ninety one. She was just thirty three
then before selling it to Leonard Lauder in nineteen ninety five.
When she did that, she signed a non compete which
prohibited her from working in makeup for twenty five years.
(00:46):
That's a long time, but Bobby, in her usual pragmatic way,
says she has no regrets. Things usually work out. But
she did wear a pendant with the date her non
compete was going to expire, and on the day they did,
Bobby was back with a brand new makeup line called
Jones Road Beauty, which she's funded with her husband. Jones
(01:08):
Road is a clean makeup line. It has no nasty
elements and the focus is on enhancing every woman's natural
beauty and that pendant Bobby is still wearing it along
with others that have the initials of her three sons, because,
as you'll hear Bobby say, to her, family is everything.
So join me. Are that chat with Bobby about what
(01:28):
piqued her interest in makeup, what she's learned from her father,
and what's the one thing she actually does admit she
regrets The answer I think will surprise you. So here's
Bobby Brown on Out of Office. Bobby, welcome to out
of Office.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Ah, thank you so nice to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
You've launched Jones's Road Beauty here in the UK at
Liberty in London. I have to say I've been there
a few times and every time I go there, I
can't even reach the counter. There is such a crowd
and there is such a buzz it which is amazing
to see. What are you hearing about how it's being
received here in London.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Well, I'm thrilled. I have so many friends in the
UK and I know I have, you know, a good
audience from all my years being a makeup artist and
people were begging me for it to come and I
just I just knew in my gut that women would
respond and not everyone, by the way, is the right
(02:28):
customer for Jones Road. Some women, I understand, like full coverage,
they like contour, they like over the top looks, so
they're not going to really understand Jones Road. Jones Road
is really for people that don't like any of those things,
and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Is it hard though, to go against all of that.
There is so much noise in the beauty industry about contouring,
about baking, about that very heavy made up look, and
what you're promoting is pretty much the opposite, a very natural,
no makeup makeup look.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Well, I don't feel that I'm up against something trying
to break a wall down. I pretty much just find
my own path and follow it, which is not that
different what I did over thirty years ago when I
launched you know, Bobby Brown Cosmetics out of my bedroom
basically with a new baby who is now thirty two
(03:25):
years old. I, you know, the industry was all bright
colors and crazy things, and I just didn't like the
way it looked. So I started teaching women how to
look like yourself, and I made a couple lipsticks that
look like women's lips. So I kind of feel the
same as I always.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Did, Bobby. What makes a woman beautiful?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
You know, honestly, probably the most important thing. There's a
couple things. It's been comfortable in her skin, it's and
that just means being confident. And really, what does confidence mean.
It doesn't mean that you think you're all that. Confidence
to me means you're just comfortable. You know this is
who you are and you've accepted it, and there's always
(04:07):
ways to make yourself look better and feel better. So
it's just kind of knowing what works. But also a
really big important part of beauty for me is health.
You can't be beautiful if you're not healthy. So the
combination of accepting yourself, knowing what to do to look better,
and being healthy is kind of the three things that
(04:30):
I think are the secret and.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
What got you interested in makeup in the first place.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Well, growing up in the fifties sixties, I used to
watch my mother get ready for her date nights with
my dad, and she was the most.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Glamorous false eyelashes, you know, very Jackie Kennedy. She was
just ridiculously glamorous, and I never was, even as a
little girl. I just looked like I was dressing up
every time I tried to emulate my mom, and it
took me a long time to figure out, you know what,
how to make myself look better, because I just looked
(05:08):
silly even in high school, Like I tried to be
my mom and I looked silly. And a really big
breaking point for me was when I first saw the
actress Ali McGraw in Love Story, because it was the
first time I saw a woman and she was older
than me, with dark hair, thick eyebrows, and freckles on
(05:29):
her nose and not wearing very much makeup. And I'm like,
I could look like that, And so that was a
big turning point for me.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
And you said, you launched Bobby Brown thirty two years
ago from your bedroom. Yes, tell us a little bit
about the early days you had this newborn baby, you yourself.
You were so young, and you launched this from your bedroom.
Tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Sure, I was, you know, in the fashion industry. I
was a makeup artist. Even before I was in the
beauty industry, I was in the fashion industry. I was
a makeup artist, working in fashion week, working in magazines.
I had a Vogue cover, and while everyone else was
kind of going on their career, I fell in love
and got married, moved out of New York City into
(06:16):
the suburbs, had a baby, and you know, I just
didn't want to travel anymore. I just I would rather.
I realized I'd rather be home with my handsome husband
and my gorgeous baby than get on a plane to
you know, wherever it was with a group of people.
And I just thought, wow, you know, I could make
(06:36):
a lipstick, and I bet I could sell it, And
so I started. I made a lipstick. I found a chemist,
he made it for me. He supplied me with the lipstick.
My job was to sell it, which I didn't know
at the time, at marketing it in PR. I didn't
know what marketing PR was. But all I knew was
he would give me the lipstick and we would sell
(06:57):
it for fifteen dollars and then we each got fifty.
I thought, wow, I'll be able to buy diapers in formula.
So that's how I started. I've always been a very simple,
practical person and never thought I'd be involved with a
brand that, you know, was once a billion dollars and
who knows what this new one's going to be so interesting.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Very interesting. You say, you've always been a very simple
and practical person. Where does that part of you come from?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I think growing up with my family in Chicago, in
the suburbs, with just like my you know, my relatives,
my aunts and uncles, my parents. You know, we were
always instilled family and the importance of being together and
you know, doing the right thing. You know, my parents
taught me to say hello, write a thank you note,
(07:52):
say goodbye, do the right thing. And even when things
were like a mess, you know, my parents either helped
me get out out of it or they taught me
how to get out of it myself. So I think
growing up with really good role models, you know, and
hopefully I have done that teaching my three sons, and
I do believe I have. So it's you know, it's
(08:15):
so important, you know where you come from to see
where you're going so important.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
What did your parents do growing up?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
My father was a lawyer and my mom basically a
mother and a housewife, and you know, both really really young.
They were twenty one when I was born. They ended
up getting divorced in my first year of high school.
And you know, lots of you know, ebbs and flows
and interesting stories. They're still both alive. And my dad's
(08:49):
eighty eight and he went from being a lawyer to
a children's book author. And my mom has never worked
and she's you know, just living her life in her
retirement community.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Does she still enjoy dressing up?
Speaker 2 (09:04):
She does not. My mother has in her in her
elder years, has not necessarily flourished the way I plan on.
She didn't. You know, she took really good care of
herself until she didn't and had some health challenges and
then you know, it was kind of downhill from there.
My dad, who's eighty eight, boxes and is still looking for,
(09:27):
you know, a partner in life. He's pretty remarkable and
he boxes at this age twice a week. He boxes
with a bunch of young you know, Ukrainian boxers, and
he goes out to dinner with them. And he's still writing.
He's writing children's books and he's amazing. You know, he's
just he's working at himself. He just got like an
(09:48):
invisible hearing aid because he wants to, you know, hear
when we're sitting at the table with everyone, and he's
he's a really great role model.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
That is amazing. I want to go back to the
dates of Bobby Brown, and you were doing what you
were doing, earning seven to fifty four lipstick, not having
a clue that this would become a billion dollar brand.
And then it did, and it became a household name.
I mean, Bobby Brown. You could go to any part
of the world and see Bobby Brown. Want to pick
up a Bobby Brown lipstick? When did you realize you
(10:20):
were onto something much bigger than creating a lipstick from
your bedroom.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
You know, I realized it when, you know, early on,
when I was excited, told people about it, and they
loved it, and I knew it was better than what
was on the market. It was not, you know, not
that like revolutionary, but it was revolutionary because it was
a lipstick that looked like your lips, because I knew
(10:45):
that women had different color lips and everything looked different.
And it was a lipstick that didn't smell like your
mom's lipstick. It wasn't greasy, it wasn't dry, and women
just liked it. So I I've always asked, you know,
my audience, which are my friends, my you know, my family,
my babysitters, and you know, models were from all over
(11:06):
the world. So I got to try these lipsticks on women,
you know, who have different skin colors and nationalities, and
you know, it was really great. Now, I know, companies
pay hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to do
that same, you know, investigating on what the products are.
But I knew that people liked them, and I knew
(11:27):
that we were, you know, doing okay. I didn't know
what was going to happen. And eventually I met someone
who took it into a department store. It just happened
to be Bird Dwarf Goodman. It wasn't a strategy of
getting into the best store. It was just the person
I met and I asked her where she worked, and
(11:47):
she was a cosmetics buyer for Bergdorf. So she took
the lipsticks. Okay, not a bad start.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
And in nineteen ninety five, you sold Bobby Brown to
ste Loder. I have two questions about that. Was that
a hard decision to let your baby, Bobby Brown, your brand,
your name, you know, go and become part of a
bigger company. And if you could do it all over again,
(12:16):
would you still sell out to a big company like Asteloda?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
You know, I am not someone that says I wish
I didn't do this. The only regret I have in
my life is that I didn't do more weights when
I was a young kid, and I just did a robo. Honestly,
that's the only because it's harder to build muscle as
you get older. But honestly, everything that I've been lucky
enough to experience selling this company, you know, the baby
(12:42):
company to a bigger company, I learned so much. I
learned not only what to do and what's possible, but
I also learned what not to do, what is silly
to do, what is a waste of time and energy
to do. So you know, I have a nice understanding
of where I want to be. But yeah, it was
(13:04):
my baby. But also there were struggles. You know, I
had two young children at the time I was commuting,
I had a husband in law school, and we had
business partners that were not the easiest relationships. You know,
it was quite difficult. So when someone like it wasn't
STI Latter that came calling, by the way, it was
(13:24):
Leonard Lotter. So when Leonard Lotter called, yes, I knew
he was part of ST. Latter. And you know, back
then it's different than st latter now it was a
smaller family company, and it was you know, it was
just wonderful. It was everything you could have imagined. And
here were these, you know, early thirty year old couple,
(13:47):
my husband and myself who were sitting at Leonard's table
at the met ball and at the museum, and we're
sitting in business meetings and he's taking us over to
Harold's and you know, I couldn't have done that with
him and without them. And yes, then it became sdi
Lauder and by the time I left the company, it
wasn't Leonard anymore. It was it was a big corporation.
(14:11):
And then there's other learnings. But I stayed twenty two
years after we sold the company.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yes, it's a long time. Also, you also had a
twenty five year non compete, which when I have to say,
when I read that, I just thought, oh my god,
that's harsh. That was my first reaction.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, well, I'll never forget. When my husband was doing
the deal and he called. We were sitting on the
beach in Nantucket and he it was when cell phones
you had to be in the car moving, so he
was like driving the car in circle. So the cell
phone wouldn't die, and he said, all right, everything has
been agreed upon, but they want you to sign a
twenty five year non compete. You know, you sold your name.
(14:52):
I said, they can have my name, and I counted
on my fingers. I was in my early thirties. I said,
I'm going to be in my sixties. I'm not going
to want to work, so all right, maybe I shouldn't
have signed that, but it's okay. It was. You know,
it was tied to a buyout, so you know, we did.
We did quite well, and it was hard. When I
(15:15):
left the brand and had four and a half years left,
that just seemed like I was in purgatory, like I
couldn't do anything. So you know, that's why we launched
Jones Road. The day my non compete was up against
everybody's suggestions, I just said, I don't care. I could
do it today. I'm not waiting till tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Is it true that you were a pendant with the
date when your non compete was going to inspire?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yes, I bought a I wear these chains around my
neck with my three sons initials which are all these
and a peace signed for me and my husband's initial
and then I bought an ampersand because that, you know,
it made me think of and dot and I wrote
ten dot twenty because I knew that's when the non
compete was up. And I still wear it and I
(16:08):
didn't take it off. Yeah, and we launched the day
that I'm compete was.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Up, which was, by the way, a week before the
presidential election, you know, which was quite contentious and in
the middle of the pandemic and social unrest, and.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Everybody thought I was crazy. They said, wait till January,
and I'm like, no, I'm doing it now. And then
what happened in January January sixth, So I'm like, I'm
just no, I'm just doing it. There is no right time.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yes, that's never a perfect time. You've just got to
do what you've got to do. And when I know,
you launched, like you said, at the start of the pandemic,
and then you couldn't get products. Our supply chains were broken.
We all know what happened to deliveries, et cetera. I
think you had some rather creative ways of getting products customers.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah. Well, I'm very scrappy and when there's an issue,
this entrepreneur in me likes to find a solution. So,
you know, people were freaked out how much we sold
because we didn't know. I didn't know if we were
going to be sitting on this product that doesn't have
you know, a lot of that doesn't have chemicals to
(17:18):
keep it fresh. And I didn't know, you know, if
it really was going to last two years. And so
we didn't go crazy. But then we ran out of
the first color, which was dusty Rose, and then tawny
in I don't even know if it was six weeks.
I mean, it was crazy, and you know, I wasn't
bummed everybody, you know, other people were like, oh my god,
(17:39):
this is terrible. I said, no, it's good. We'll get
it back in stock. And then about a month, you know,
a couple weeks later, I got a call from someone,
good news, we found twenty five hundred dusty roses and
we're we're going to order boxes. That'll take three weeks,
four weeks. I said, no, you're not. You're going to
go to the supermarket. You're going to get white sandwich
(18:00):
bags like you know, whap sandwich bags, go to the
art store and get neon pink tape, print the ingredients
on a card, and we're going to ship it like
that and we sold the entire twenty five hundred in
one day.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
That is absolutely amazing.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, and no one cares.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Exactly, you get the product, that's what you care about it.
People probably thought this is very cool new packaging, right exactly.
You started a trend. Yes, Like you said, you don't
really have a typical marketing team. What we see is
all you. It's you doing Instagram posts, it's you telling
people how to use miracle bomb to break the seal,
(18:44):
to crush the pigment, et cetera. Tell me a little
bit about that. How did you feel about this decision
that it's just going to be me telling people about
this new line.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Well, it's not just me, but you know, luckily, you know,
even before I started the brand, I had an online
platform and experience, and you know, I'm careful with what
goes online. I like the realness. I don't like anything
that's not real. I don't like you know, I'm not
(19:15):
someone that likes to show my dirty laundry on the ground,
you know, but I know we all have it when
we're doing our zoom. So I think, you know, that
has kind of made me like relatable to people that
watched my content and it's not just me. So, you know,
in the beginning, I was like, oh, if we're launching
a brand, now, I need influencers. So whatever team I
(19:38):
had at the time different that I have now, said no,
we need to do these influencers. And they I said fine,
you know, and they picked all these influencers and one
by one I would look and I would put my
hand on my eyes and be like, oh, no, no, no.
You know, girls with long pointing nails and false eyelashes
and you know, boobs hanging out and I'm like, guys,
(19:59):
that's not on brain. They're like, no, but this is
the you know, this is the world. And finally I said,
I don't care. Find me people that look like they
actually wear Jones Road, that they like Jones Road. So
we have now we I have a chief marketing officer
and a head of social that are so brilliant and
(20:20):
by the way, they've never done this at a beauty
brand before. And one of them happens to be my
second son is my head of marketing. My daughter in
law Pyle is my head of social, and we have
this amazing team of I don't even call them influencers,
(20:40):
but you know, content creators that love the brand, that
create these great content. I approve it, and I make
little comments, you know, tell them not to be backlit,
tell them that to not line over there. And we've
kind of now I don't have to tell them anything.
And you know, they've come in New Jersey where we
(21:01):
know each other, and it's just really good, you know,
way to really explain, you know, who is the Jones
road person. And yes, I do a lot of it.
And I have a whole list today of things I
have to film by myself, and I say, and I
have a one o'clock blowout because I have a party tonight,
so I will be doing this in the afternoon and
(21:24):
not doing it like this.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I love that Pile is part of your team because
as an Indian woman myself, when I see her pictures,
I'm immediately drawn to her and to the brand, and
which leads me to my next question. I love how
your makeup is really inclusive, and not just in terms
of the variety of skin tones you cater too, but
(21:49):
also age. You write a beautiful models with silver hair,
and they're just stunning.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
You know. It's so interesting because It's not a marking
you know, strategy. It's like, of course, anyone that is
interested in what Jones has to offer has to find
things for them, and we all have different like beauty
issues like I am. You know, I've worked with Indian
models my whole life, from you know, working with Vogue
(22:19):
there was Yasmine Gory and all these beautiful women. So
I learned early on about Indian women and dark circles
and you know, not easy to cover them. I figure
that out, you know, I understand the fairest of fair
women in the UK who can't find anything that's not
ashier or dirty on them, and their skin is like
(22:41):
so porcelain pink. I figure that out, Like I understand
women of my age that are so dry, and I
understand like the darkest of skin that has super oily
and nothing shows up. So as a makeup artist, I
know that. So we have worked it into our our
I'm not gonna say marketing, just our visuals, and that
(23:03):
becomes our marketing.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Do you think the beauty industry is doing better overall
in terms of being more inclusive?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Absolutely? I think there are you know, so many brands
that have done you know, a great job and adding
more and more, and you know, I mean, I look,
I could see through the curtains. There's some brands that
say they are, but they're so not because the colors
are not right. They're not dark enough or not yellow enough.
(23:33):
But that's you know, they probably don't have someone to
formulate and understand skin tone as much. And you know,
I love when Rihanna is so popular for having so
many shades. She's the first ever. I'm like, I kind
of did it at Bobby Brown Cosmetics. You know, I
was known for it there. But it's fine, and you know,
I'm only I'm only redefining, you know what. I know,
(23:57):
I'm learning a lot. Like the model that we just
tired on our last campaign is so dark that she
can only wear our darkest found, our darkest pencils, our
darkest everything. And now she is on my I don't
even know what to call it team where when we're
doing the darkest colors, I send it to her. Her
(24:18):
name is a book and if it works on her,
it's going to work on the darkest of skins. And
guess what, We're not going to sell a lot of them,
but I will always have them.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
I love the names of your product, and I love
the name of your foundation. What the foundation? It's playful.
It gets to the point I believe it.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Well, I honestly, you know, I wanted to call it
an unfoundation. Okay, not that interesting, but then I realized
this is a foundation. It is for me. A foundation
should even out your skin, get rid of you know, discoloration,
but not look like foundation. So it's not a tinted moisturizer,
even though there's moisture in it. And when I was
(25:01):
when I put it on my face, I remember I
was sitting at a table with on my team and
I pulled out a mirror, and you know, I'm definitely
like I would say, I'm forty something years older than
some of them. And I looked in the mirror and
I'm like, what the I didn't say foundation. I was like,
look at my skin, and they were all like OMG.
(25:22):
And I don't know who ended up saying WTF, what
the foundation. I'm like, okay, that's the name, and literally
no one had it.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Talking about the foundation reminds me about this particular influencer
who used it all wrong, slapped it over her face,
and you came back with a pretty cool and credible response.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Well, when I first heard that this happened, you know,
Cody called me and said, all right, mom, you know
bad news. There's an influencer who's trashed what the foundation
and hates it. And I was like, you know, my
stomach dropped, and I went and looked at it, and yeah,
it was like pilling off her face. It was streaking.
(26:09):
And then I looked at it and I realized, first
of all, she put it over some really awful bass
that she had. I don't know what it was. And
then she was used half of the jar and I
know she was doing it just to get like, you know,
clicks or likes, and she had a very big audience.
And I said, okay, let's get in the studio, you know,
(26:32):
in my office, and let's create just how to's. Okay, guys,
this is how much you used. This is. So we
filmed about eight or ten of them, and I said
and then I said, all right, I want to do
another one because we had done one that said, look,
this foundation isn't for everybody. If you don't want you know,
a doing nice finish, you're gonna hate it if you
(26:55):
like you know, dry, I don't want to say, Kiki,
but if you like Matt, you know, a dryer foundation,
you're not going to like it. And then I said,
I have one more. And I was slap happy at
that time. And I was on my way to New
York for some kind of speech or something, and I said,
as a makeup artist, I loved trying new things, and
I saw this on TikTok and I want to try it.
(27:17):
I dipped my hands in my foundation and I just
went up to my face and I just started giggling,
and I said, this isn't going to work. And I
stopped and everybody laughed, and you know, I left, and
I was in the car talking to my youngest son,
telling him about what was going on. He said, Mom,
do not challenge one of these big TikTok influencers because
(27:39):
you're going to lose. I said, I'm too. Don't worry,
I'm not going to And I called Cody back. I said, right, Cody,
I couldn't tell m Duke said, because he would not
be happy with that. But I said, all right, Cody,
don't put it up. He said, Mom, the train has
left the station and you're getting really positive. You know
it's going viral and you're getting positive comments. So okay,
(28:00):
and guess what, we like quadrupled our foundation selling business
and it really helped market and put this thing on
the map.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
That's amazing. So it actually really just it worked.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
It worked, and you can't, by the way, you can't
plan things like this out. Yeah, right, like you can't strategize.
All right, let's try to get someone upset and no, just.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Enough, it's just a reaction. It's is the way things
work out. Bobby, and your in the arc of your career,
You've done so much, you know, founding a business, selling
a business, becoming an entrepreneur again, what is the most
important leadership lesson you've learned through all of this?
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Well many, First of all, you know, I think for me,
being able to have a relationship with the people that
work for me and being able to pick up the
phone and discuss what is going on, either personally with
them or whatever you're working on. Communication is the most
(29:03):
important thing, you know, because so many leaders don't talk
to the people underneath them. So I am someone that
believes in talking to our interns as much as I
need to talk to my COO and my CMO every
single day. So it's really an openness in a communication.
(29:24):
And you know, not every hire is a good hire,
and not every person is right for the role they've
been hired. And that's the biggest challenge.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
What do you look for when you hire someone to
work at Jones Road?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
You know, I look for spark. You know, I figure
there's other people that are looking at the resumes and experiences,
and you know, I look for someone that understands the aesthetic.
Even if they're in finance. I need them to understand,
you know, who they're working for and what we're about.
(29:59):
And I need some of that understands our culture. You know,
it is kind of a family business. It is not,
you know, a buttoned up corporate place. You know, we
need to get a little bit more structure in place,
just so we can all be a little less frantic
because the business has exploded. But I also, you know,
I want people to bring their dogs in, and I
(30:20):
want people to be able to say to me, and
I want to be able to say, please, don't bring
your dog in this day, because my dog's coming in.
She doesn't like other dogs, you know, So I need
to have someone that I could talk to like that,
or call and say, you know what that I'm not
happy with the launch. We should have done this. I
don't think we got enough. I just need someone to
(30:41):
not like freak out when I talk to them.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Bobby, you are so authentic. And I say this because
I'm talking to you now in zoom and I feel
like this is actually no different than watching you on
one of your Instagram reels. It truly is just you.
I don't think there's a separate Bobby on camera and
a separate Bobby behind the camera who's had the biggest
influence on your life that makes you this way.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
You know, it's a journey, it's not one person. I mean, certainly,
my parents create, you know, created like you know, they
allowed me to be me. They let me study makeup
in my third college. They never thought that I would,
you know, literally have a career or amount to anything
(31:28):
other than being a mom, you know, and as my
dad said, or a teacher, which by the way, I'm
both of those things. And you know, my role model
of Aunt Alice, who's ninety one years old and the
most phenomenal woman down to earth. And you know, people
like Leonard Latter, Mickey Drexler, like there's people that I
want to be like I mean, i've never met Richard Branson,
(31:51):
I know we'd be friends. Like he's such a role
model because he's so himself and he's real and so
I've always looked people that are authentic and real, and
I really, really really don't like people that are not.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
I love that about you. This podcast is called out
of Office. What's your favorite thing to do when you're
not in the office.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
You know, my favorite place on earth is being at
the beach and being then, by the way, when I'm
at the beach, I'm under an umbrella with a hat
and I'm either talking on the phone or I'm reading
some a book by myself. But I love when I
have my family around me. And now I'm so blessed
(32:37):
because I have. We have three sons and two nephews
and four nephews. Actually have six nephews, but there's two
that kind of grew up with us, and they're all
getting fiances. My two of my sons are married. One
of my son has a baby, so I am a
grandmother now. And just honestly, being successful in business is great,
(32:59):
having the money to travel and be and live your life.
But honestly, there's nothing like being surrounded by the people
you love. And you know they're not always that nice
to me, Like, you know, they make fun of me.
I annoy them. I know when I annoy my daughter
in laws, I can't help it, but I still love them.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I know. Are you enjoying every minute of being a grandma?
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Oh? I just love that. I mean, like I have.
I have a six month old granddaughter and I could
just eat her up. I just she is, she is happy,
she is beautiful. And I'm really lucky because I have
two sets of in laws, you know, my you know,
Pile's parents and then Kim's parents, and they are just
all the nicest, down to earth normal people, and I
(33:48):
just I've hit the jackpot, you know, one more sun
to go. We'll see who he ends up with. It'll
be interesting. But yeah, I'm a I'm a very lucky,
happy woman.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
You love to exercise. I'm saying that because I watch
you on Instagram exercising away and it's very impressive.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I push myself, I really do. I mean some days
I love it. Today I started my day with my
trainer on zoom. I'm in Florida, he's in New Jersey,
and it was not easy, and he kept telling me
what a great job I was doing. I'm like, to myself,
I'm not doing a great job. He's like, grab those
fifteen pound weights. They look just like they look like
(34:27):
my twelves. And I grabbed my twelves. He would know,
you know, Mark, if you're listening, he listens to all
my things. I was just using the twelves. The fifteens
were too happy today.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Well, thank you so much for your time and thank
you for joining.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Me and out of Office my pleasure and your makeup
and skin looks beautiful. So whatever you're doing, keep doing it.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Miracle mom.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
All right.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
So that's Bobby Brown and out of Office. I really
enjoyed getting to know her a little bit more, a
little bit better, and I'm sure you to What I
loved was an answer to my question what makes a
woman beautiful? And she answered confidence being comfortable in your
own skin. Hi'm Alikha Kapoor. You can check out more
episodes of Out of Office on the Bloomberg Terminal, Bloomberg
(35:15):
dot com, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify, and as always, thank
you for listening.
Hi, and welcome back to Out of Office. I'm your host,
Malika Kapoor. Before we begin, I have a confession. I
am a huge fan of my next guest. In fact,
I have been for years, and I'm thrilled she's joining
me on my podcast to talk about her phenomenal career
as a globally renowned makeup artist, entrepreneur and founder. Please
(00:25):
join me in welcoming Bobby Brown. Bobby Brown became a
household name when she launched her makeup brand under her
name in nineteen ninety one. She was just thirty three
then before selling it to Leonard Lauder in nineteen ninety five.
When she did that, she signed a non compete which
prohibited her from working in makeup for twenty five years.
(00:46):
That's a long time, but Bobby, in her usual pragmatic way,
says she has no regrets. Things usually work out. But
she did wear a pendant with the date her non
compete was going to expire, and on the day they did,
Bobby was back with a brand new makeup line called
Jones Road Beauty, which she's funded with her husband. Jones
(01:08):
Road is a clean makeup line. It has no nasty
elements and the focus is on enhancing every woman's natural
beauty and that pendant Bobby is still wearing it along
with others that have the initials of her three sons, because,
as you'll hear Bobby say, to her, family is everything.
So join me. Are that chat with Bobby about what
(01:28):
piqued her interest in makeup, what she's learned from her father,
and what's the one thing she actually does admit she
regrets The answer I think will surprise you. So here's
Bobby Brown on Out of Office. Bobby, welcome to out
of Office.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Ah, thank you so nice to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
You've launched Jones's Road Beauty here in the UK at
Liberty in London. I have to say I've been there
a few times and every time I go there, I
can't even reach the counter. There is such a crowd
and there is such a buzz it which is amazing
to see. What are you hearing about how it's being
received here in London.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Well, I'm thrilled. I have so many friends in the
UK and I know I have, you know, a good
audience from all my years being a makeup artist and
people were begging me for it to come and I
just I just knew in my gut that women would
respond and not everyone, by the way, is the right
(02:28):
customer for Jones Road. Some women, I understand, like full coverage,
they like contour, they like over the top looks, so
they're not going to really understand Jones Road. Jones Road
is really for people that don't like any of those things,
and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Is it hard though, to go against all of that.
There is so much noise in the beauty industry about contouring,
about baking, about that very heavy made up look, and
what you're promoting is pretty much the opposite, a very natural,
no makeup makeup look.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Well, I don't feel that I'm up against something trying
to break a wall down. I pretty much just find
my own path and follow it, which is not that
different what I did over thirty years ago when I
launched you know, Bobby Brown Cosmetics out of my bedroom
basically with a new baby who is now thirty two
(03:25):
years old. I, you know, the industry was all bright
colors and crazy things, and I just didn't like the
way it looked. So I started teaching women how to
look like yourself, and I made a couple lipsticks that
look like women's lips. So I kind of feel the
same as I always.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Did, Bobby. What makes a woman beautiful?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
You know, honestly, probably the most important thing. There's a
couple things. It's been comfortable in her skin, it's and
that just means being confident. And really, what does confidence mean.
It doesn't mean that you think you're all that. Confidence
to me means you're just comfortable. You know this is
who you are and you've accepted it, and there's always
(04:07):
ways to make yourself look better and feel better. So
it's just kind of knowing what works. But also a
really big important part of beauty for me is health.
You can't be beautiful if you're not healthy. So the
combination of accepting yourself, knowing what to do to look better,
and being healthy is kind of the three things that
(04:30):
I think are the secret and.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
What got you interested in makeup in the first place.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Well, growing up in the fifties sixties, I used to
watch my mother get ready for her date nights with
my dad, and she was the most.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Glamorous false eyelashes, you know, very Jackie Kennedy. She was
just ridiculously glamorous, and I never was, even as a
little girl. I just looked like I was dressing up
every time I tried to emulate my mom, and it
took me a long time to figure out, you know what,
how to make myself look better, because I just looked
(05:08):
silly even in high school, Like I tried to be
my mom and I looked silly. And a really big
breaking point for me was when I first saw the
actress Ali McGraw in Love Story, because it was the
first time I saw a woman and she was older
than me, with dark hair, thick eyebrows, and freckles on
(05:29):
her nose and not wearing very much makeup. And I'm like,
I could look like that, And so that was a
big turning point for me.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
And you said, you launched Bobby Brown thirty two years
ago from your bedroom. Yes, tell us a little bit
about the early days you had this newborn baby, you yourself.
You were so young, and you launched this from your bedroom.
Tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Sure, I was, you know, in the fashion industry. I
was a makeup artist. Even before I was in the
beauty industry, I was in the fashion industry. I was
a makeup artist, working in fashion week, working in magazines.
I had a Vogue cover, and while everyone else was
kind of going on their career, I fell in love
and got married, moved out of New York City into
(06:16):
the suburbs, had a baby, and you know, I just
didn't want to travel anymore. I just I would rather.
I realized I'd rather be home with my handsome husband
and my gorgeous baby than get on a plane to
you know, wherever it was with a group of people.
And I just thought, wow, you know, I could make
(06:36):
a lipstick, and I bet I could sell it, And
so I started. I made a lipstick. I found a chemist,
he made it for me. He supplied me with the lipstick.
My job was to sell it, which I didn't know
at the time, at marketing it in PR. I didn't
know what marketing PR was. But all I knew was
he would give me the lipstick and we would sell
(06:57):
it for fifteen dollars and then we each got fifty.
I thought, wow, I'll be able to buy diapers in formula.
So that's how I started. I've always been a very simple,
practical person and never thought I'd be involved with a
brand that, you know, was once a billion dollars and
who knows what this new one's going to be so interesting.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Very interesting. You say, you've always been a very simple
and practical person. Where does that part of you come from?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I think growing up with my family in Chicago, in
the suburbs, with just like my you know, my relatives,
my aunts and uncles, my parents. You know, we were
always instilled family and the importance of being together and
you know, doing the right thing. You know, my parents
taught me to say hello, write a thank you note,
(07:52):
say goodbye, do the right thing. And even when things
were like a mess, you know, my parents either helped
me get out out of it or they taught me
how to get out of it myself. So I think
growing up with really good role models, you know, and
hopefully I have done that teaching my three sons, and
I do believe I have. So it's you know, it's
(08:15):
so important, you know where you come from to see
where you're going so important.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
What did your parents do growing up?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
My father was a lawyer and my mom basically a
mother and a housewife, and you know, both really really young.
They were twenty one when I was born. They ended
up getting divorced in my first year of high school.
And you know, lots of you know, ebbs and flows
and interesting stories. They're still both alive. And my dad's
(08:49):
eighty eight and he went from being a lawyer to
a children's book author. And my mom has never worked
and she's you know, just living her life in her
retirement community.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Does she still enjoy dressing up?
Speaker 2 (09:04):
She does not. My mother has in her in her
elder years, has not necessarily flourished the way I plan on.
She didn't. You know, she took really good care of
herself until she didn't and had some health challenges and
then you know, it was kind of downhill from there.
My dad, who's eighty eight, boxes and is still looking for,
(09:27):
you know, a partner in life. He's pretty remarkable and
he boxes at this age twice a week. He boxes
with a bunch of young you know, Ukrainian boxers, and
he goes out to dinner with them. And he's still writing.
He's writing children's books and he's amazing. You know, he's
just he's working at himself. He just got like an
(09:48):
invisible hearing aid because he wants to, you know, hear
when we're sitting at the table with everyone, and he's
he's a really great role model.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
That is amazing. I want to go back to the
dates of Bobby Brown, and you were doing what you
were doing, earning seven to fifty four lipstick, not having
a clue that this would become a billion dollar brand.
And then it did, and it became a household name.
I mean, Bobby Brown. You could go to any part
of the world and see Bobby Brown. Want to pick
up a Bobby Brown lipstick? When did you realize you
(10:20):
were onto something much bigger than creating a lipstick from
your bedroom.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
You know, I realized it when, you know, early on,
when I was excited, told people about it, and they
loved it, and I knew it was better than what
was on the market. It was not, you know, not
that like revolutionary, but it was revolutionary because it was
a lipstick that looked like your lips, because I knew
(10:45):
that women had different color lips and everything looked different.
And it was a lipstick that didn't smell like your
mom's lipstick. It wasn't greasy, it wasn't dry, and women
just liked it. So I I've always asked, you know,
my audience, which are my friends, my you know, my family,
my babysitters, and you know, models were from all over
(11:06):
the world. So I got to try these lipsticks on women,
you know, who have different skin colors and nationalities, and
you know, it was really great. Now, I know, companies
pay hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to do
that same, you know, investigating on what the products are.
But I knew that people liked them, and I knew
(11:27):
that we were, you know, doing okay. I didn't know
what was going to happen. And eventually I met someone
who took it into a department store. It just happened
to be Bird Dwarf Goodman. It wasn't a strategy of
getting into the best store. It was just the person
I met and I asked her where she worked, and
(11:47):
she was a cosmetics buyer for Bergdorf. So she took
the lipsticks. Okay, not a bad start.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
And in nineteen ninety five, you sold Bobby Brown to
ste Loder. I have two questions about that. Was that
a hard decision to let your baby, Bobby Brown, your brand,
your name, you know, go and become part of a
bigger company. And if you could do it all over again,
(12:16):
would you still sell out to a big company like Asteloda?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
You know, I am not someone that says I wish
I didn't do this. The only regret I have in
my life is that I didn't do more weights when
I was a young kid, and I just did a robo. Honestly,
that's the only because it's harder to build muscle as
you get older. But honestly, everything that I've been lucky
enough to experience selling this company, you know, the baby
(12:42):
company to a bigger company, I learned so much. I
learned not only what to do and what's possible, but
I also learned what not to do, what is silly
to do, what is a waste of time and energy
to do. So you know, I have a nice understanding
of where I want to be. But yeah, it was
(13:04):
my baby. But also there were struggles. You know, I
had two young children at the time I was commuting,
I had a husband in law school, and we had
business partners that were not the easiest relationships. You know,
it was quite difficult. So when someone like it wasn't
STI Latter that came calling, by the way, it was
(13:24):
Leonard Lotter. So when Leonard Lotter called, yes, I knew
he was part of ST. Latter. And you know, back
then it's different than st latter now it was a
smaller family company, and it was you know, it was
just wonderful. It was everything you could have imagined. And
here were these, you know, early thirty year old couple,
(13:47):
my husband and myself who were sitting at Leonard's table
at the met ball and at the museum, and we're
sitting in business meetings and he's taking us over to
Harold's and you know, I couldn't have done that with
him and without them. And yes, then it became sdi
Lauder and by the time I left the company, it
wasn't Leonard anymore. It was it was a big corporation.
(14:11):
And then there's other learnings. But I stayed twenty two
years after we sold the company.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yes, it's a long time. Also, you also had a
twenty five year non compete, which when I have to say,
when I read that, I just thought, oh my god,
that's harsh. That was my first reaction.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, well, I'll never forget. When my husband was doing
the deal and he called. We were sitting on the
beach in Nantucket and he it was when cell phones
you had to be in the car moving, so he
was like driving the car in circle. So the cell
phone wouldn't die, and he said, all right, everything has
been agreed upon, but they want you to sign a
twenty five year non compete. You know, you sold your name.
(14:52):
I said, they can have my name, and I counted
on my fingers. I was in my early thirties. I said,
I'm going to be in my sixties. I'm not going
to want to work, so all right, maybe I shouldn't
have signed that, but it's okay. It was. You know,
it was tied to a buyout, so you know, we did.
We did quite well, and it was hard. When I
(15:15):
left the brand and had four and a half years left,
that just seemed like I was in purgatory, like I
couldn't do anything. So you know, that's why we launched
Jones Road. The day my non compete was up against
everybody's suggestions, I just said, I don't care. I could
do it today. I'm not waiting till tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Is it true that you were a pendant with the
date when your non compete was going to inspire?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yes, I bought a I wear these chains around my
neck with my three sons initials which are all these
and a peace signed for me and my husband's initial
and then I bought an ampersand because that, you know,
it made me think of and dot and I wrote
ten dot twenty because I knew that's when the non
compete was up. And I still wear it and I
(16:08):
didn't take it off. Yeah, and we launched the day
that I'm compete was.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Up, which was, by the way, a week before the
presidential election, you know, which was quite contentious and in
the middle of the pandemic and social unrest, and.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Everybody thought I was crazy. They said, wait till January,
and I'm like, no, I'm doing it now. And then
what happened in January January sixth, So I'm like, I'm
just no, I'm just doing it. There is no right time.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yes, that's never a perfect time. You've just got to
do what you've got to do. And when I know,
you launched, like you said, at the start of the pandemic,
and then you couldn't get products. Our supply chains were broken.
We all know what happened to deliveries, et cetera. I
think you had some rather creative ways of getting products customers.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah. Well, I'm very scrappy and when there's an issue,
this entrepreneur in me likes to find a solution. So,
you know, people were freaked out how much we sold
because we didn't know. I didn't know if we were
going to be sitting on this product that doesn't have
you know, a lot of that doesn't have chemicals to
(17:18):
keep it fresh. And I didn't know, you know, if
it really was going to last two years. And so
we didn't go crazy. But then we ran out of
the first color, which was dusty Rose, and then tawny
in I don't even know if it was six weeks.
I mean, it was crazy, and you know, I wasn't
bummed everybody, you know, other people were like, oh my god,
(17:39):
this is terrible. I said, no, it's good. We'll get
it back in stock. And then about a month, you know,
a couple weeks later, I got a call from someone,
good news, we found twenty five hundred dusty roses and
we're we're going to order boxes. That'll take three weeks,
four weeks. I said, no, you're not. You're going to
go to the supermarket. You're going to get white sandwich
(18:00):
bags like you know, whap sandwich bags, go to the
art store and get neon pink tape, print the ingredients
on a card, and we're going to ship it like
that and we sold the entire twenty five hundred in
one day.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
That is absolutely amazing.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, and no one cares.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Exactly, you get the product, that's what you care about it.
People probably thought this is very cool new packaging, right exactly.
You started a trend. Yes, Like you said, you don't
really have a typical marketing team. What we see is
all you. It's you doing Instagram posts, it's you telling
people how to use miracle bomb to break the seal,
(18:44):
to crush the pigment, et cetera. Tell me a little
bit about that. How did you feel about this decision
that it's just going to be me telling people about
this new line.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Well, it's not just me, but you know, luckily, you know,
even before I started the brand, I had an online
platform and experience, and you know, I'm careful with what
goes online. I like the realness. I don't like anything
that's not real. I don't like you know, I'm not
(19:15):
someone that likes to show my dirty laundry on the ground,
you know, but I know we all have it when
we're doing our zoom. So I think, you know, that
has kind of made me like relatable to people that
watched my content and it's not just me. So, you know,
in the beginning, I was like, oh, if we're launching
a brand, now, I need influencers. So whatever team I
(19:38):
had at the time different that I have now, said no,
we need to do these influencers. And they I said fine,
you know, and they picked all these influencers and one
by one I would look and I would put my
hand on my eyes and be like, oh, no, no, no.
You know, girls with long pointing nails and false eyelashes
and you know, boobs hanging out and I'm like, guys,
(19:59):
that's not on brain. They're like, no, but this is
the you know, this is the world. And finally I said,
I don't care. Find me people that look like they
actually wear Jones Road, that they like Jones Road. So
we have now we I have a chief marketing officer
and a head of social that are so brilliant and
(20:20):
by the way, they've never done this at a beauty
brand before. And one of them happens to be my
second son is my head of marketing. My daughter in
law Pyle is my head of social, and we have
this amazing team of I don't even call them influencers,
(20:40):
but you know, content creators that love the brand, that
create these great content. I approve it, and I make
little comments, you know, tell them not to be backlit,
tell them that to not line over there. And we've
kind of now I don't have to tell them anything.
And you know, they've come in New Jersey where we
(21:01):
know each other, and it's just really good, you know,
way to really explain, you know, who is the Jones
road person. And yes, I do a lot of it.
And I have a whole list today of things I
have to film by myself, and I say, and I
have a one o'clock blowout because I have a party tonight,
so I will be doing this in the afternoon and
(21:24):
not doing it like this.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I love that Pile is part of your team because
as an Indian woman myself, when I see her pictures,
I'm immediately drawn to her and to the brand, and
which leads me to my next question. I love how
your makeup is really inclusive, and not just in terms
of the variety of skin tones you cater too, but
(21:49):
also age. You write a beautiful models with silver hair,
and they're just stunning.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
You know. It's so interesting because It's not a marking
you know, strategy. It's like, of course, anyone that is
interested in what Jones has to offer has to find
things for them, and we all have different like beauty
issues like I am. You know, I've worked with Indian
models my whole life, from you know, working with Vogue
(22:19):
there was Yasmine Gory and all these beautiful women. So
I learned early on about Indian women and dark circles
and you know, not easy to cover them. I figure
that out, you know, I understand the fairest of fair
women in the UK who can't find anything that's not
ashier or dirty on them, and their skin is like
(22:41):
so porcelain pink. I figure that out, Like I understand
women of my age that are so dry, and I
understand like the darkest of skin that has super oily
and nothing shows up. So as a makeup artist, I
know that. So we have worked it into our our
I'm not gonna say marketing, just our visuals, and that
(23:03):
becomes our marketing.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Do you think the beauty industry is doing better overall
in terms of being more inclusive?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Absolutely? I think there are you know, so many brands
that have done you know, a great job and adding
more and more, and you know, I mean, I look,
I could see through the curtains. There's some brands that
say they are, but they're so not because the colors
are not right. They're not dark enough or not yellow enough.
(23:33):
But that's you know, they probably don't have someone to
formulate and understand skin tone as much. And you know,
I love when Rihanna is so popular for having so
many shades. She's the first ever. I'm like, I kind
of did it at Bobby Brown Cosmetics. You know, I
was known for it there. But it's fine, and you know,
I'm only I'm only redefining, you know what. I know,
(23:57):
I'm learning a lot. Like the model that we just
tired on our last campaign is so dark that she
can only wear our darkest found, our darkest pencils, our
darkest everything. And now she is on my I don't
even know what to call it team where when we're
doing the darkest colors, I send it to her. Her
(24:18):
name is a book and if it works on her,
it's going to work on the darkest of skins. And
guess what, We're not going to sell a lot of them,
but I will always have them.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
I love the names of your product, and I love
the name of your foundation. What the foundation? It's playful.
It gets to the point I believe it.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Well, I honestly, you know, I wanted to call it
an unfoundation. Okay, not that interesting, but then I realized
this is a foundation. It is for me. A foundation
should even out your skin, get rid of you know, discoloration,
but not look like foundation. So it's not a tinted moisturizer,
even though there's moisture in it. And when I was
(25:01):
when I put it on my face, I remember I
was sitting at a table with on my team and
I pulled out a mirror, and you know, I'm definitely
like I would say, I'm forty something years older than
some of them. And I looked in the mirror and
I'm like, what the I didn't say foundation. I was like,
look at my skin, and they were all like OMG.
(25:22):
And I don't know who ended up saying WTF, what
the foundation. I'm like, okay, that's the name, and literally
no one had it.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Talking about the foundation reminds me about this particular influencer
who used it all wrong, slapped it over her face,
and you came back with a pretty cool and credible response.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Well, when I first heard that this happened, you know,
Cody called me and said, all right, mom, you know
bad news. There's an influencer who's trashed what the foundation
and hates it. And I was like, you know, my
stomach dropped, and I went and looked at it, and yeah,
it was like pilling off her face. It was streaking.
(26:09):
And then I looked at it and I realized, first
of all, she put it over some really awful bass
that she had. I don't know what it was. And
then she was used half of the jar and I
know she was doing it just to get like, you know,
clicks or likes, and she had a very big audience.
And I said, okay, let's get in the studio, you know,
(26:32):
in my office, and let's create just how to's. Okay, guys,
this is how much you used. This is. So we
filmed about eight or ten of them, and I said
and then I said, all right, I want to do
another one because we had done one that said, look,
this foundation isn't for everybody. If you don't want you know,
a doing nice finish, you're gonna hate it if you
(26:55):
like you know, dry, I don't want to say, Kiki,
but if you like Matt, you know, a dryer foundation,
you're not going to like it. And then I said,
I have one more. And I was slap happy at
that time. And I was on my way to New
York for some kind of speech or something, and I said,
as a makeup artist, I loved trying new things, and
I saw this on TikTok and I want to try it.
(27:17):
I dipped my hands in my foundation and I just
went up to my face and I just started giggling,
and I said, this isn't going to work. And I
stopped and everybody laughed, and you know, I left, and
I was in the car talking to my youngest son,
telling him about what was going on. He said, Mom,
do not challenge one of these big TikTok influencers because
(27:39):
you're going to lose. I said, I'm too. Don't worry,
I'm not going to And I called Cody back. I said, right, Cody,
I couldn't tell m Duke said, because he would not
be happy with that. But I said, all right, Cody,
don't put it up. He said, Mom, the train has
left the station and you're getting really positive. You know
it's going viral and you're getting positive comments. So okay,
(28:00):
and guess what, we like quadrupled our foundation selling business
and it really helped market and put this thing on
the map.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
That's amazing. So it actually really just it worked.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
It worked, and you can't, by the way, you can't
plan things like this out. Yeah, right, like you can't strategize.
All right, let's try to get someone upset and no, just.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Enough, it's just a reaction. It's is the way things
work out. Bobby, and your in the arc of your career,
You've done so much, you know, founding a business, selling
a business, becoming an entrepreneur again, what is the most
important leadership lesson you've learned through all of this?
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Well many, First of all, you know, I think for me,
being able to have a relationship with the people that
work for me and being able to pick up the
phone and discuss what is going on, either personally with
them or whatever you're working on. Communication is the most
(29:03):
important thing, you know, because so many leaders don't talk
to the people underneath them. So I am someone that
believes in talking to our interns as much as I
need to talk to my COO and my CMO every
single day. So it's really an openness in a communication.
(29:24):
And you know, not every hire is a good hire,
and not every person is right for the role they've
been hired. And that's the biggest challenge.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
What do you look for when you hire someone to
work at Jones Road?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
You know, I look for spark. You know, I figure
there's other people that are looking at the resumes and experiences,
and you know, I look for someone that understands the aesthetic.
Even if they're in finance. I need them to understand,
you know, who they're working for and what we're about.
(29:59):
And I need some of that understands our culture. You know,
it is kind of a family business. It is not,
you know, a buttoned up corporate place. You know, we
need to get a little bit more structure in place,
just so we can all be a little less frantic
because the business has exploded. But I also, you know,
I want people to bring their dogs in, and I
(30:20):
want people to be able to say to me, and
I want to be able to say, please, don't bring
your dog in this day, because my dog's coming in.
She doesn't like other dogs, you know, So I need
to have someone that I could talk to like that,
or call and say, you know what that I'm not
happy with the launch. We should have done this. I
don't think we got enough. I just need someone to
(30:41):
not like freak out when I talk to them.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Bobby, you are so authentic. And I say this because
I'm talking to you now in zoom and I feel
like this is actually no different than watching you on
one of your Instagram reels. It truly is just you.
I don't think there's a separate Bobby on camera and
a separate Bobby behind the camera who's had the biggest
influence on your life that makes you this way.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
You know, it's a journey, it's not one person. I mean, certainly,
my parents create, you know, created like you know, they
allowed me to be me. They let me study makeup
in my third college. They never thought that I would,
you know, literally have a career or amount to anything
(31:28):
other than being a mom, you know, and as my
dad said, or a teacher, which by the way, I'm
both of those things. And you know, my role model
of Aunt Alice, who's ninety one years old and the
most phenomenal woman down to earth. And you know, people
like Leonard Latter, Mickey Drexler, like there's people that I
want to be like I mean, i've never met Richard Branson,
(31:51):
I know we'd be friends. Like he's such a role
model because he's so himself and he's real and so
I've always looked people that are authentic and real, and
I really, really really don't like people that are not.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
I love that about you. This podcast is called out
of Office. What's your favorite thing to do when you're
not in the office.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
You know, my favorite place on earth is being at
the beach and being then, by the way, when I'm
at the beach, I'm under an umbrella with a hat
and I'm either talking on the phone or I'm reading
some a book by myself. But I love when I
have my family around me. And now I'm so blessed
(32:37):
because I have. We have three sons and two nephews
and four nephews. Actually have six nephews, but there's two
that kind of grew up with us, and they're all
getting fiances. My two of my sons are married. One
of my son has a baby, so I am a
grandmother now. And just honestly, being successful in business is great,
(32:59):
having the money to travel and be and live your life.
But honestly, there's nothing like being surrounded by the people
you love. And you know they're not always that nice
to me, Like, you know, they make fun of me.
I annoy them. I know when I annoy my daughter
in laws, I can't help it, but I still love them.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I know. Are you enjoying every minute of being a grandma?
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Oh? I just love that. I mean, like I have.
I have a six month old granddaughter and I could
just eat her up. I just she is, she is happy,
she is beautiful. And I'm really lucky because I have
two sets of in laws, you know, my you know,
Pile's parents and then Kim's parents, and they are just
all the nicest, down to earth normal people, and I
(33:48):
just I've hit the jackpot, you know, one more sun
to go. We'll see who he ends up with. It'll
be interesting. But yeah, I'm a I'm a very lucky,
happy woman.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
You love to exercise. I'm saying that because I watch
you on Instagram exercising away and it's very impressive.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I push myself, I really do. I mean some days
I love it. Today I started my day with my
trainer on zoom. I'm in Florida, he's in New Jersey,
and it was not easy, and he kept telling me
what a great job I was doing. I'm like, to myself,
I'm not doing a great job. He's like, grab those
fifteen pound weights. They look just like they look like
(34:27):
my twelves. And I grabbed my twelves. He would know,
you know, Mark, if you're listening, he listens to all
my things. I was just using the twelves. The fifteens
were too happy today.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Well, thank you so much for your time and thank
you for joining.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Me and out of Office my pleasure and your makeup
and skin looks beautiful. So whatever you're doing, keep doing it.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Miracle mom.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
All right.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
So that's Bobby Brown and out of Office. I really
enjoyed getting to know her a little bit more, a
little bit better, and I'm sure you to What I
loved was an answer to my question what makes a
woman beautiful? And she answered confidence being comfortable in your
own skin. Hi'm Alikha Kapoor. You can check out more
episodes of Out of Office on the Bloomberg Terminal, Bloomberg
(35:15):
dot com, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify, and as always, thank
you for listening.
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