September 8, 2022 • 39 mins
Catherine Powell draws on her tenure at Disney - and now Airbnb - to explain how vulnerability translates into courage. The head of hosting at the rental giant talks candidly about how that's shaped the way she leads and the gift of a high-powered girlfriends club. And she shares her fun fact: she’s given birth in 3 different languages.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
M Hi. Then welcome back to Out of Office, I'm
your host, Malika Kapoor. After fifteen successful years at Disney,
Catherine Powell moved to Airbnb in her job to head
Experiences in person experiences there, but then the pandemic hit
(00:21):
for me personally, I didn't never had a job. For
my hosts, they lost their their access to to their income,
their business, and Airbnb as a whole was kind of
seeing it's it's business news dive. It was time for
a reset. Along with Brian Chesty, one of the founders
of Airbnb, Catherine took the experiences online actually had although
(00:44):
the Buddhist monk was was very popular. We also had
meditating with Sheep. The strategy worked out for Airbnb and
Catherine is now the global head of Posting at the company.
In this episode of Out of Office Recover a lot
of topics, We talked about her career working at Disney,
where she was president of Disney Park's Western Region, the
(01:05):
gift of great girlfriends, living and working in multiple countries, Yes,
I would say. My fun fact is that that I've
given birth in three different languages. It's in French, in
German and in English. And perhaps what struck me the most.
She explains why vulnerability is has superpower. So join me
(01:26):
as I have a chat with Airbnb's Catherine Powell. Catherine,
welcome to Out of Office. Thank you, Thank you, Madiko
for having me as the global head of hosting for Airbnb,
is one of the most senior executives there. You really
have a good window into travel and tourism. Friends. Are
(01:49):
people traveling again, Yes they are, And in fact we've
seen that people have wanted to travel the moment that
they were able to in the pandemic. Obviously, the pandemic
was declared, the world went into lockdown. It was a
very very challenging moment for everyone if you worked for
a travel company in the pandemic, I mean it was
(02:09):
it was a moment where we just were looking into
the abyss. But what was incredible to see was as
soon as lockdown restrictions started to lift, that pent up
demand for travel and connection just exploded. People got into
their cars. They weren't going to get onto airplace they couldn't,
but they got into their cars. They traveled locally, they'd
stayed in in homes because they felt safe, and so
(02:32):
we saw our business having dropped start to pick up
very very quickly, and Airbnb, what our hosts were offering
was a was kind of the right product for travelers
at that moment. And in fact, domestic and rural travel
remains the biggest part of our business. It used to
be international travel and cities that's coming back, let's come
(02:55):
back to pre pandemic levels, which is great, but rural
and domestic remains really, really strong. And I don't know
if you've traveled recently or being at an airport and
tried to kind of like I could see domestic being
a you know, a more attractive option for for some
time to come, until airlines and airports can get the
resources that they need, because it's a nightmare traveling now.
(03:16):
But yes, people are traveling. It's nice to hear that.
It just feels that the world is sort of inching
back to some sort of normal state. Right. Yes, at
the beginning of the pandemic, none of us knew what
had hit us. We didn't know what was going to happen.
Um you didn't either. You had just joined Airbnb and
you were responsible for experiences, and all of a sudden,
(03:39):
you know, we went into the state of lockdown. So
this must have been a really interesting time for you
personally and also as you wondered, oh my god, what's
going to happen next? Yes, I joined having the in January,
I joined to run experiences, and these are in person
experiences where you meet the host and they are an
(04:00):
incredible their community, their culture and experience. And March fourteenth,
the pandemic has declared and I had to suspend my
whole business. I mean I had to just suspend experiences.
So it was it was a it was a very
difficult moment for me personally. I didn't know if I
had a job. For my hosts, they lost their their
(04:24):
access to to their income, their business, and Airbnb as
a whole was kind of seeing it's it's business nose dive.
So it was an incredibly challenging period. One of the
things that I did early on was was to actually
start doing workshops and listening sessions with our hosts to
hear from them, to hear how we could help them.
(04:45):
And it was clear they wanted to continue connecting with
guests and provide something, so we pivoted really quickly. I
mean in fourteen business days I think it was, we
launched online experiences and I remember having the conversation with
Brian at the time saying, you know, want to do this,
and Brian was saying that we're all about connection and
human connection and it's got to be in person. And
(05:06):
in the end we thought, let's try it. Our hosts
wanted is going to help them, and so we curated
these experiences. I remember working with hosts and kind of
almost like rehearsing, Hey, this is different to an impersonal experience.
It's online. We set up Zoom accounts for them and
we launched them. So it was that was that was
a great moment of light during an incredibly difficult time.
(05:28):
The pandemic was such a forcing function to focus focus
on what was really important to jettison businesses that were
I think Brian felt were distractions and go back to
the core of what is at the heart of V
and B, which is hosted travel. This is our hosts
and their unique homes. And that was when he created
this role, this global head of hosting role, and my
(05:50):
priority was to focus on our four million hosts online experiences.
I know you offered a range of experiences and one
of them was meditated in with the Buddhist monk what
was the most popular experience we had God we had
although the Buddhist monk was was very popular. We had um.
We also had meditating with sheep that was that was
(06:13):
very Anything that we had a wonderful This is during
the online experiences. We had anything that was I think
helping people's mood with music or with meditation, with calming.
But we had we had great I mean even are
one of our most popular in personal experiences, which was
making pastor with a wonderful honor Italian grandmother just outside Rome. Um.
(06:38):
She pivoted also immediately to online and taught how to
make pastor, you know. And so they those ones where
you could have a shared experience with people who were,
you know, unable to connect with their families, unable to
celebrate birthdays. We have people booking online experiences for graduation celebrations.
It's just anything that you could do as a as
(06:59):
a shed I mean I learned to, I learned to
Irish dance, to do a jig, I learned to I
learned to make pastor, you know, I mean you you
could learn to do all sorts of things, but the
key thing was you were doing it as a shared experience.
When you were separated from your friends and your loved ones.
Now at the same time you were working on these
online experiences. But you just said a few minutes ago
(07:21):
that you know, you weren't show whether you even had
a job, and you had just come off fifteen incredibly
successful years at Disney, a really high profile position, very
much in the public eye, and then you find yourself
in this situation where you're scratching her thinking, where is
this going? I may not have a job. How did
you get through that? I think the one of the
(07:44):
things about the pandemic was that it was people have
talked about it being kind of very democratic. You know,
everybody was in the same boat. And I think while
I was very worried about kind of our hosts are
experience hosts the experience business, it was very clear that
AIRB and B was focusing on all of us on
(08:06):
the executive team were during that period. We were meeting
every day every single day for hours, including Saturdays and
Sundays with with Brian, just talking about how are we
going to get through this, how are we going to
refocus the business? And I think my energy was channeled
into that and supporting Brian and helping you know, deliver
(08:26):
what we how we were going to get Airbnb through it,
and that was I mean, that was the priority. Obviously,
there were concerns that we all had about how we
were feeling locked down, um, how our teams, how our
teams we're managing, especially young families. I remember that as well.
I remember feeling just desperate for young families who were
(08:51):
in small apartments, who had no childcare. I think one
of the things that also really taught me was just
the importance of empathetic leadership. I mean, I've got to
I've got a kind of blurred background. Now many of
us have Zoom backgrounds on, and so you didn't even
know what was going on behind Zoom. So this idea
that someone could be in their bedroom where they wake up,
(09:12):
they get dressed, they go on to Zoom, they have
kids in the background, and they they spend the day
in their bedroom, and this that the toll as well
as kind of just focusing on how the business was
going to get through. The toll on our teams and
the you know, the mental as well as the physical
well being was was really tough as well. So I
think that was another thing that really focused me just
(09:33):
to support the team and make sure that that we
were really intentional about being empathetic. It's very easy if
you're seeing someone with the zoom background not to think
about what's going on behind that background. You've done lots
of interesting things and new things as global ahead of
hosting an Airbnb, tell us a little bit about your
work with refugees. Yes, that's that's been truly incredible. Um.
(09:57):
Airbnb dot org was actually was began its genesis was
in in two thousand and twelve with Hurricane Sandy and
one of our hosts, and this just highlights just the
incredible nature of our hosts. One of our hosts basically said,
during Hurricane Sandy, I'd like to open my home for
(10:18):
free to the victims, to the disaster victims, those who
have been displaced because of Hurricane Sandy. And so we
had to create the product to be able to offer
a home for free, and that that started what's called
basically open homes, where our hosts could opt in to
offer their homes for free or for a discount to
people in need. And people who need basically were refugees
(10:42):
or people displaced because of a disaster victim. That was
because of disasters like natural disasters like a hurricane or
wildfires or floods, and so that was our focus. And
then it really became kind of acute, first of all,
with with the Afghanistan crisis last year, and we moved
very quickly to work with agencies, with settlement agencies in
(11:05):
the US to house Afghan refugees. We've probably housed I
think I mean over well over twenty thousand to date
of Afghan refugees. And then the beginning of this year
was the conflict in Ukraine, and we committed to trying
to house a hundred thousand guests who've been displaced because
(11:25):
of this conflict. We're very close to that number, which
is incredible. And this really is our host community who
opt in. There are people who aren't hosts who also didn't.
I mean you, for example, if you're not an Airbnb host,
you could say I'd still like to opt into dot
org and I'm ready to house refugees or displace people
(11:46):
for a temporary period of time. And this is what
we see when we have these crisis and Airbnb dot org,
which is now five O one C three um philanthropic
arm of the company, we recruit Org hosts who open
their homes, they some offer them for free or discounted.
We will raise money. Dot org will raise the funds
(12:08):
and then we will give basically funding to agencies that
can help resettle people. And one of the real advantages
that that Airbnb has and dot org has because of
Airbnb structures is the technology. We are a platform where
we can connect guests and hosts, and so in the
case of dot or, we are a platform that at
(12:30):
scale can connect guests and need with hosts who are
prepared to house those guests and need. So it's it's
really an incredible, incredible part to you know, experience to
be part of and meeting our hosts and hearing the
stories of refugees and how it you know, it changes
their lives that are really vital moment in their journey.
(12:51):
So they're not they don't necessarily have to stay in camps.
They can spend a short period of time, a temporary
period in a home and our hosts will do everything
to support them, to introduce them to the local community.
They give them clothes and food, sometimes money. It's as
it really shows the best of the culture of Airbnb,
and I think it's a really interesting way to see
(13:13):
how the corporate world can play a part. It just
means tweaking your business a little bit, but finding a
way to UM to contribute. And I think that you
know that point of of contributing and also just you know,
how do you operationalize your values. It's such a it's
such an important idea, more important now than ever because
(13:34):
the expectations from your employees, from your guests, and from
our host we have from our host is, you know,
we want to be able to act in this space
so that the dot org arean and supporting refugee guests
is one. Sustainability might be another. Where so we're working
closely with our hosts. We know our guests seek that
(13:56):
our hosts really want to be able to indicate how
they are helping sustainable travel. We're making introductions UM in
we're running pilots in fact in a couple of countries,
trying to help our hosts access renewable energy UM and
so introducing them to to organizations that can help that
and then they can demonstrate that their homes are energy efficient,
(14:18):
that they have renewable energy. We know that that's really
important to them. But to your point of how the
businesses you know, tweet business models. It's it's really about
operationalizing those values, get them into your business as opposed
to them sitting apart as a kind of as a
as a commitment. Another thing, I know that the top
of your list is personal safety and guaranteeing the safety
(14:42):
of people who stay in an Airbnb accommodation. Now, one
of my colleagues at Bloomberg has reported extensively on unfortunate
incidents of sexual assault which have taken place at Airbnb properties,
which has also reported a lot and the huge efforts
you have taken in the steps of taking to improve safety.
(15:02):
Could you tell us a little bit about that, about
what you're doing to improve safety standards. So safety is
the number one priority for for Airbnb, and there is
something that that we're committed to. I mean, we had
we have you know, we've welcomed a billion guests on Airbnb.
The safety incidents are a fraction of the of the
(15:26):
of the knights or the trips, but you know they
we don't want them to happen. Clearly, however small the incident,
the number of incidents are and so we do a
lot to make sure that we have um standards in
place that both our hosts and our guests need to
commit to, and if they don't, we will take action
to remove guests or hosts that don't don't adhere to
(15:48):
those standards. We have a lot of technology that sit
with our Trust and Safety operations that detect risk ahead
of time UM, and so we will do that in
that US a way to identify reservations that we think
might be risky and how we prevent those from happening. UM.
It is incredibly important for us as well that you know,
(16:11):
not just our hosts and our guests are safe, but
the communities where our hosts live also feel safe. So
we had we have a neighborhood hotline that that neighbors
can ring if they feel that that something is going on.
So we were very focused on this all the time.
As I said, it's an absolute priority for us. I
want to talk a little bit about your personal life
and the two things that struck me when I was
(16:33):
reading up on your childhood was you grew up in
Hong Kong and I just moved to London from Hong
Kong two years ago, so I lived in Hong Kong
for a bit, And that you wanted to be a
ballet dancer when you were a little girl. Um, yes,
I had. I lived eight years in Hong Kong. Um.
We lived in Stanley and I went to I went
(16:55):
to school on the Peak. Um, so we we lived there.
I was aged eight to sixteen, so I mean really
formative years and and I loved it, absolutely loved it. Um.
And it was it was it was basically it was.
I think it was something that really triggered a a
(17:16):
real curiosity for travel and for different cultures. We did
so much travel in Southeast Asia when we lived there.
My parents would every every opportunity that we had to
go and visit the country, we would do that. UM.
And just learning about other cultures, meeting people, learning about
you know, foods and religion and dress and you know,
(17:37):
all of that was it was fantastic. So it really
kind of it triggered my my interests, I think, in
in travel and just in in global communities and global cultures.
How do you appeal about the situation in Hong Kong now, though,
I mean I just read that Hong Kong has had
its biggest exodus of people, you know, ever, I think
(17:58):
one point six percent of the pop Glacian left just
in the last twelve months. That's a huge number. And
just given the way they've handled the pandemic, the national
security log, Hong Kong doesn't feel the same, right. I
feel sad. I feel sad. We have I have friends
who are still there, and actually there's a there's a
(18:19):
group that we're together, what'sapp group, um and so, and
they're they're kind of sharing what's what's going on, and
it's you know, it's a I think it's a very
it's a very difficult period. Actually, I have to say
I haven't been back, um and I mean I I
think of it so funny, you know, when you've lived
somewhere also as a child, it's so nostalgic. But I
(18:41):
know it's changed a lot that I can't wait to
go back. But Hong Kong is just one of the
cities you've lived in. I know you're a true global citizen.
You've lived and working in Paris, in Sydney, and London
in the States, and you have three boys, each one
was born in a different country. Yes, I always say
my fun fact that I've given birth in three different languages,
(19:03):
in French, in German, and in English. And I always
laugh about the German one. If you know the German language,
you always have to put the verb at the end
of the sentence. I remember, I can literally remember trying
to construct the sentence, you know, in labor um. So yes,
I have my boys. Have they've you know, they've grown
(19:24):
up in different countries, They've they've lived. Yeah, they've lived
literally all over the world. They're all now with me
here in the US with my husband. Of course as well,
I should say, well here, how old are your boys?
That my youngest is twenty um? And is it the
college here in the US? My next one is twenty four,
(19:44):
and then my eldest is twenty six. How did that
shape you? Living and working in so many different parts
of the world. How has that shaped you as a
business leader? I think, you know, I think, I mean
I talked about kind of growing up in Hong Kong
um and and what that did in terms of just
just opening your eyes to the fact that, you know,
(20:06):
cultures are very different, communities are very different, and there's
a whole world to explore. Having the opportunity then to
go and live in different cities, live in different countries,
I think what it has done for me as a
as a leader. Is really helped me adapt too, particularly
to how do you know how does how do consumer
(20:27):
expectations and consumer behavior? How does consumer behavior change? If
you are a business and you're dealing with you have
products or a brand, UM and your your you know
your product you wanted to get into the hands of consumers,
how how is it different in each country and how
do you have to really understand the cultural nuances? And
(20:48):
this is everything from selling when I worked in Paris
very early on. So when after my husband and I
married and we moved to Paris because he's a he's
in the British Foreign was in the British Foreign So
of US and we were posted to the embassy there
UM and I worked in UM what we called audio
visual distribution, which is basically the licensing of TV shows
(21:09):
and films, and we licensed US and UK films to
French broadcasters. So I really had to understand what do
French consumers want to watch, when do they watch it,
what's the right you know, which channel broadcasts, what sort
of programming, what's the time slot? So you you begin
to understand how that changes, how that's different to what
(21:30):
I was used to in the UK for example, then
living in Australia and working then for Disney. It's about
the Disney brand and Disney products and how do Australians
view the Disney brand and what what is valuable for Australians,
what do they care about and how can we pivot
to make sure that we address those knees. And of
course you have the park and the park experience and
how the experience in Disney and Paris might differ to
(21:52):
the experience in Disneyland. So I think it makes you
incredibly attuned to know cultural differences so that you you
don't create this one size fits all or this one
template that you kind of roll out globally, that you
really understand how you need to adapt to a local culture,
adapt to local consumer needs as as a consumer expectations.
(22:15):
I know this is a really broad question, but if
you look back at your career at Disney, what do
you think what would you say is one of the
learnings you had at Disney that you're perhaps trying to
apply or to use as a leader at Airbnb. Gosh,
I mean fifteen years at Disney, there's a lot that
(22:35):
I learned, um, you know, and it it's so shaped
you know who I am, how I think, how I operate,
how I lead? Um, I well, I think one the
you know, the level of rigor that Disney expects, I
have to say that there's that same level of rigor
at Airbnb, but that you know, high expectations in ensuring
(22:58):
that you're you're you know, you're delivering excellence the whole
time and trying, you know, trying pushing yourself, pushing your
teams forward to deliver excellence. That that level of rigor
and focus was one thing. Um, definitely an understanding of
the that kind of sweet spot, if you'd like, that
(23:18):
nexus of of where creative content or the creative experience
you know, meet the consumer and what the consumer wants
and can be kind of you know, for want of
a better word, optimized commercially, which sounds very jogony, but
you know how I've always had as a through thread
of my career, how can the business, how can I
(23:39):
help the business grow leveraging content? Whatever that content might be.
It might be a film, or it might be you know,
an experience in the park, or now it's you know,
it's an experience or a stay on Airbnb. How can
I help grow the business by leveraging what that content
or experience is and helping meet the consumer needs. And
that was something that through the Disney brand I really
I learned and I worked with um intensing. That's definitely
(24:03):
something that I've brought with me to Airbnb. What the
how do you create the best possible guest experience, whether
it's a magical experience in the part or a magical
stay or an actual experience on Airbnb. Now, you're often
described as a senior woman executive. Was one of the
senior most women executives in Disney, one of the senior
(24:24):
most women executives at Airbnb. Does that bother you that
you're described with the woman tag woman executive or are
you proud of it? I'm kind of it's kind of that.
I am proud of it. Definitely very proud of it.
Um And I think it is necessary because I think
(24:49):
the role of a of a female role model is
still role model as a leader is so important, and
so what what bothers me is that it's still so
you know, they're is still a need for visible female
role models, but to be one, I'm very proud of
that and I take that very very seriously. I take
(25:09):
the fact that I am not just a leader, but
a woman leader very seriously. I know that women are
looking to me to see, you know, how is it done?
How how can I be that person? Can I? I mean,
it's really important as a as a female role model
that as a leader on this defines my my leadership
as well, that that I am accessible so that people
(25:34):
can see, you know, they see who I am and
they see I mean, vulnerability is another piece that I
talk a lot about. I have vulnerability as as I
think I kind of call it one of my superpowers
because I think if you're not and you don't kind
of acknowledge where where and when it's difficult, you you're
it's not relatable and then people can't see well, okay,
(25:55):
so this is this is how it is to get
to be a senior leader, and this is where the
difficult moments are, and this is how you ask for
help and this is how you show up um. And
I think that's very it's very very important. You know,
I share a lot um and have shared a lot
with with women leaders, younger leaders. I mentor as well,
both within Airbnb and outside of Airbnb and helping helping
(26:19):
them women on that path. It's so important not just
as a female leader that you take that seriously, but
that you sponsor, that you advocate, that you look at
your pipeline of leaders and make sure that you have
a pipeline of female leaders and and then you're equipping
them to be successful. And it is on it's on
all leaders to do that, men and women. But for
(26:42):
obvious reasons, there's I think there's you know, more of
a of a an expectation that a woman leader will
help because you're experiencing so much of what they're You
have experienced so much of what they're going through, you know.
I don't think I've heard anybody describe vulnerability as a superpower,
and I have to say I love it, and I
(27:03):
think it's really quite brave of you to say that.
Do you remember a time in your career when you
felt really, really vulnerable and can you talk a little
bit about how you pulled through? Yes, I've had. Yeah,
I've had many many times when I felt vonderable, as
we all do, by the way, I mean, we all
have moments of vulnerability. Um and any any move that
(27:25):
I have made which has been a lape in terms
of you know, what my experience to that date has
been and what I'm about to do. My first move
towards to Australia to be a general manager of eight
of business lines Disneys lines of business, and I was
an expert in one. I'd have been a deep you know,
(27:46):
general manager, deep expertise. And suddenly I was going to
be running multiple lines of business and so I was
going to have people in my team who knew way
more about that business than I did. And that was
about you know, that was a moment when it was like, Okay,
I have to show up as a leader, but I
also have to acknowledge that there are some things about
theatrical stage shows for example, that I've never done before,
(28:09):
or releasing a film that I've never done before. We
had Star Wars Episode seven coming up. I mean, it
was the stakes were high. So just you know, knowing
knowing believing that you know you can get through this
is kind of like the first step in any vulnerability
um and then knowing where and when to ask for help.
I mean that that moved to Australia was one moving
to Disney and Paris. I had never I had never
(28:32):
worked in the parks, and yet suddenly I was going
to have sixteen thousand people who are going to look
to me for leadership, and I, you know, I haven't
worked in the parts before, so that was you know,
if in fact, somebody I was doing a one of
my first town halls at Disney and Paris, I did.
I did. I held a women only one intentionally because
(28:52):
they had never ever been brought together, um women as
as a group, and I wanted to talk to them
as a as a woman. And I know, of you know,
having an intentional or femalechannel is in itself controversial because
you don't want to be excluding men. But I felt
it was so important for women to have a moment together,
to express things safely and to to hear from me.
(29:14):
And they asked, you know what my most kind of
vulnerable moment, I said, well, up to this point, I
mean it's today, it's now. It's being here in a
very public stage, knowing that if something goes wrong, it's
going to be very very public, but just believing that
you you know how and when to ask for help.
And that's the thing about vulnerability why I kind of
call it a superpower, is it gives you courage and
(29:37):
courage is a strength. Um. So, so you know that's
those are my times at Disney. And then you know,
coming to to air being beaten working in tech and
being a woman working in tech and not having a
tech background and needing to speak to my team, to
speak to engineers to gain that credibility. Um, when you
know you have a very different experience, you you literally
(30:00):
you use a different language, um. And and learning that. So,
I mean, each of these have been key moments and
I think it's you know, leaning into that and just
I mean I always say you need to get you
need to get vulnerability right. You can't be overly vulnerable
because everyone's gonna think, oh my god, she doesn't know
what she's doing. Um, you need that, you know, right dosage,
(30:20):
But it gives you strength. And I'm going back to
that point about being a female leader. That is what
people need to see because everyone feels it. And if
you don't manage vulnerability in the right way, it becomes shame,
It becomes self conscious shame, and then you just don't
want to do anything. I think you've explained that so
beautifully and it struck a quarter nodding away the whole
(30:42):
time and I'm sure a lot of people will really
learn and take a lot away from that. UM mentors you.
You mentor a lot of people within Airbnb and also externally.
Have you ever had one particular mentor who really stands
out as someone who has shaped you? I I'm often
(31:02):
asked this question, and I kind of I feel that
that there have been different mentor like relationships in my
life at different times who have helped me in different ways.
I have close friendships with my with friends, friends that
I've been to college with um who great yes, great
(31:28):
girlfriends I had. I have great girlfriends that that we
were you know, we were university together, that we still
stay together and who help we help each other. And
it is a form of mentorship because there are times
when you say, especially when you're getting married and having
children at the same time and trying to balance that
work life career, and it feeling at times that it's
just going so wrong having not just you know, someone
(31:50):
to share it with, but but also you know, giving
advice and help in a way that a mentor might do.
So there's there's friendship that's really important. And I've had
friends who are who are mentor um in Australia. You know,
Australia was it was the most fantastic country and experience
for our family to live in, but it was it
was a challenging environment. It's it's very it's very male dominated.
(32:13):
And and I had a group of women in this
kind of what felt like a male dominated world that
you know, the head of Twitter, the head of Microsoft,
the head of Google, um, they were the head of
of Intel. They were all women, um. And so there
were these amazingly strong women in tech and we created
this kind of this this group that we would we
(32:34):
would meet regularly together and again it was a support network,
but it was also kind of mentoring each other and
how do you how do you cope with this? And
you know, how how can you you know, what advice
can you give? And that was that was a nice
stayed I've stayed in touch on, I mean particularly and
two of them, Karen Stocks who is at a Twitter
and now is at Google, and Pitt Marlow who was
(32:55):
Microsoft and is now as salesforce coming to Airbnb. They
really helped me with the transition into into tech. I mean,
that was that was that was very very helpful just
in terms of what to expect as I said, the
different language you know that that tech can use, and
how to kind of prepare myself for that. And then
I've had I've had external people that I looked to
(33:18):
that that I admire hugely. I remember growing up with
Margaret Thatcher and I didn't I didn't necessarily, I wasn't
necessarily aligned with all her politics, but my goodness, as
a female leader, she was so powerful and impressive, and
I remember that really striking. So she didn't know, she
didn't mentor me, but she was, you know, a role model.
(33:39):
And the other one, you know, the other one when
I came to the US and read so much about
was Ruth Bader Ginsburg, which was another one that you
just think, Wow, you know women who are so strong
and are so clear about what their values are and
their principles and stick to them, and you're so clear.
I think that's something that helps shape me as a leader.
You realize how important expectations are. You as a leader
(34:05):
need to be so clear about what your teams can
expect of you and what you expect of them. And
I think where I've had, you know, great bosses who
have also been mentors, you know, or other people that
I've looked and admired. It's been it's been about that
you know exactly what you can expect from them. I
love this idea of the Gold Club that you have
women leaders in tech. What what would you talk about? Like?
(34:29):
What are some of the conversations you would have? Gosh,
I mean, you know when it ranged from everything, it's
it's as you could imagine what you would talk about
with your girlfriends. It can be from as as you
kind of as you grow up. It's it's the different
stages of your life. So it during my time in Australia,
when we talked together, it was about you know, it
(34:49):
was about some people were transitioning into another role, how
do you expect how do you prepare yourself for that?
Or they were having challenges with managing teams or specific
a specific issue. You know, we would talk through how
we had dealt with So, I mean, there's so many similarities,
(35:09):
even though the businesses were very different and Disney I
was in a very different business to them at that time,
but there are core elements of being a leader that
are just true to everyone. And so it's whether it's
dealing how to how to deal as a manager with
a difficult situation, or how to deal with your boss
in a difficult situation, how to transition out. And I
remember one of them was thinking of leaving her role,
(35:34):
and she was she was going through all the kind
of the criteria that she was asking herself and the
decision tree. If you like that she was using to
make this transition. That was incredibly useful for me. I
mean she was we were helping her through it. But
for me to hear how she was thinking through if
I move, these are the things that are really important
that I'm gonna be asking myself was incredibly helpful. If
(35:56):
your team had to describe your leadership style, I I
went to them and said, can you describe Gaston's leadership style?
What do you think that say? Um, I think they
would use the word empathetic. Um, I think they would
(36:17):
use the word Um, they might use humor. I think
I think humor is I think he is incredibly important.
I think, um, you know, clarity and help on on
problem solving, so being able to kind of unpack a
problem and find a creative solution, so kind of bias
for action. But in a let's you know, I think
(36:39):
they would use the word optimism, and I think optimism
is is about this like, hey, we can find a
way through this, you know, and I will, you know,
I can find kind of creative problem solve. Um. So
I think they'd use empathetic, optimistic, high energy, which is
I think for my team good and bad. Know. Um yeah,
(37:02):
I hope that they would. I hope they would think
humor as well. I think humans incredibly important. Oh, it
is absolutely And the last question is this podcast is
called out of Office. What's your favorite thing to do
when you're not in the office? Um, And that's that's
a more difficult question now that we work from home.
You know, how do I really try to kind of
create that separation between Um, well, I am very lucky
(37:23):
that I live in the Santa Monica Mountains in l A.
And so hiking, hiking and beach walks are I absolutely them.
Especially you know, we have a we have a dog,
um and so and with a first we're you know,
new to dog. I mean, we've had Aussie named after Australia,
um Azzie. We've had Assie for three years, so it's
(37:45):
pre pandemic. But um, you know, now I'll kind of
make sure that that that a lot of what we
do wekend we can do with assi, but hiking is
is hiking and the beach walks, which are the most
beautiful assets of California is probably is probably my favorite
things to do, something also that my husband and I
both enjoy. We don't always share the same interest, but
(38:07):
this this we do in hiking. I have to say,
with three boys, you know, hiking and hiking holidays is
we've done this since as soon as we thought they
were kind of strong enough to be able to walk
you know, more than an hour. So we've had we've
had I mean, you're you're in the UK at the moment.
We've walked most of the Southwest Coast Path trail. I
think that's the right way Southwest Coast Past trail around
(38:29):
kind of Cornwall and Devon, which is absolutely stunning and
if you haven't done it or parts of it, you
really should. It's beautiful that we would every holiday, every
half time, we would do chunks of that walk look
into ever you should, and with with young boys, it
was it was a good way to kind of exercise them,
(38:50):
keep them after after off the electronics, and make sure
they sleep well at night. Every mother's goal, Yes exactly.
Thank you so much for joining me and out of copie, Oh,
Madika is a pleasure. Thank you. That was Catherine Powell,
Global head of Hosting at Airbnb. I hope you enjoyed
(39:12):
our chat as much as I did, and make sure
you check out some of the other incredible conversations and
out of office. You'll find them on Spotify, Apple Podcasts,
Bloomberg dot Com, and of course, the Bloomberg Termino. This
episode was produced by Yang Yang. I'm Malika Kapoor. As always,
thank you for listening.
M Hi. Then welcome back to Out of Office, I'm
your host, Malika Kapoor. After fifteen successful years at Disney,
Catherine Powell moved to Airbnb in her job to head
Experiences in person experiences there, but then the pandemic hit
(00:21):
for me personally, I didn't never had a job. For
my hosts, they lost their their access to to their income,
their business, and Airbnb as a whole was kind of
seeing it's it's business news dive. It was time for
a reset. Along with Brian Chesty, one of the founders
of Airbnb, Catherine took the experiences online actually had although
(00:44):
the Buddhist monk was was very popular. We also had
meditating with Sheep. The strategy worked out for Airbnb and
Catherine is now the global head of Posting at the company.
In this episode of Out of Office Recover a lot
of topics, We talked about her career working at Disney,
where she was president of Disney Park's Western Region, the
(01:05):
gift of great girlfriends, living and working in multiple countries, Yes,
I would say. My fun fact is that that I've
given birth in three different languages. It's in French, in
German and in English. And perhaps what struck me the most.
She explains why vulnerability is has superpower. So join me
(01:26):
as I have a chat with Airbnb's Catherine Powell. Catherine,
welcome to Out of Office. Thank you, Thank you, Madiko
for having me as the global head of hosting for Airbnb,
is one of the most senior executives there. You really
have a good window into travel and tourism. Friends. Are
(01:49):
people traveling again, Yes they are, And in fact we've
seen that people have wanted to travel the moment that
they were able to in the pandemic. Obviously, the pandemic
was declared, the world went into lockdown. It was a
very very challenging moment for everyone if you worked for
a travel company in the pandemic, I mean it was
(02:09):
it was a moment where we just were looking into
the abyss. But what was incredible to see was as
soon as lockdown restrictions started to lift, that pent up
demand for travel and connection just exploded. People got into
their cars. They weren't going to get onto airplace they couldn't,
but they got into their cars. They traveled locally, they'd
stayed in in homes because they felt safe, and so
(02:32):
we saw our business having dropped start to pick up
very very quickly, and Airbnb, what our hosts were offering
was a was kind of the right product for travelers
at that moment. And in fact, domestic and rural travel
remains the biggest part of our business. It used to
be international travel and cities that's coming back, let's come
(02:55):
back to pre pandemic levels, which is great, but rural
and domestic remains really, really strong. And I don't know
if you've traveled recently or being at an airport and
tried to kind of like I could see domestic being
a you know, a more attractive option for for some
time to come, until airlines and airports can get the
resources that they need, because it's a nightmare traveling now.
(03:16):
But yes, people are traveling. It's nice to hear that.
It just feels that the world is sort of inching
back to some sort of normal state. Right. Yes, at
the beginning of the pandemic, none of us knew what
had hit us. We didn't know what was going to happen.
Um you didn't either. You had just joined Airbnb and
you were responsible for experiences, and all of a sudden,
(03:39):
you know, we went into the state of lockdown. So
this must have been a really interesting time for you
personally and also as you wondered, oh my god, what's
going to happen next? Yes, I joined having the in January,
I joined to run experiences, and these are in person
experiences where you meet the host and they are an
(04:00):
incredible their community, their culture and experience. And March fourteenth,
the pandemic has declared and I had to suspend my
whole business. I mean I had to just suspend experiences.
So it was it was a it was a very
difficult moment for me personally. I didn't know if I
had a job. For my hosts, they lost their their
(04:24):
access to to their income, their business, and Airbnb as
a whole was kind of seeing it's it's business nose dive.
So it was an incredibly challenging period. One of the
things that I did early on was was to actually
start doing workshops and listening sessions with our hosts to
hear from them, to hear how we could help them.
(04:45):
And it was clear they wanted to continue connecting with
guests and provide something, so we pivoted really quickly. I
mean in fourteen business days I think it was, we
launched online experiences and I remember having the conversation with
Brian at the time saying, you know, want to do this,
and Brian was saying that we're all about connection and
human connection and it's got to be in person. And
(05:06):
in the end we thought, let's try it. Our hosts
wanted is going to help them, and so we curated
these experiences. I remember working with hosts and kind of
almost like rehearsing, Hey, this is different to an impersonal experience.
It's online. We set up Zoom accounts for them and
we launched them. So it was that was that was
a great moment of light during an incredibly difficult time.
(05:28):
The pandemic was such a forcing function to focus focus
on what was really important to jettison businesses that were
I think Brian felt were distractions and go back to
the core of what is at the heart of V
and B, which is hosted travel. This is our hosts
and their unique homes. And that was when he created
this role, this global head of hosting role, and my
(05:50):
priority was to focus on our four million hosts online experiences.
I know you offered a range of experiences and one
of them was meditated in with the Buddhist monk what
was the most popular experience we had God we had
although the Buddhist monk was was very popular. We had um.
We also had meditating with sheep that was that was
(06:13):
very Anything that we had a wonderful This is during
the online experiences. We had anything that was I think
helping people's mood with music or with meditation, with calming.
But we had we had great I mean even are
one of our most popular in personal experiences, which was
making pastor with a wonderful honor Italian grandmother just outside Rome. Um.
(06:38):
She pivoted also immediately to online and taught how to
make pastor, you know. And so they those ones where
you could have a shared experience with people who were,
you know, unable to connect with their families, unable to
celebrate birthdays. We have people booking online experiences for graduation celebrations.
It's just anything that you could do as a as
(06:59):
a shed I mean I learned to, I learned to
Irish dance, to do a jig, I learned to I
learned to make pastor, you know, I mean you you
could learn to do all sorts of things, but the
key thing was you were doing it as a shared experience.
When you were separated from your friends and your loved ones.
Now at the same time you were working on these
online experiences. But you just said a few minutes ago
(07:21):
that you know, you weren't show whether you even had
a job, and you had just come off fifteen incredibly
successful years at Disney, a really high profile position, very
much in the public eye, and then you find yourself
in this situation where you're scratching her thinking, where is
this going? I may not have a job. How did
you get through that? I think the one of the
(07:44):
things about the pandemic was that it was people have
talked about it being kind of very democratic. You know,
everybody was in the same boat. And I think while
I was very worried about kind of our hosts are
experience hosts the experience business, it was very clear that
AIRB and B was focusing on all of us on
(08:06):
the executive team were during that period. We were meeting
every day every single day for hours, including Saturdays and
Sundays with with Brian, just talking about how are we
going to get through this, how are we going to
refocus the business? And I think my energy was channeled
into that and supporting Brian and helping you know, deliver
(08:26):
what we how we were going to get Airbnb through it,
and that was I mean, that was the priority. Obviously,
there were concerns that we all had about how we
were feeling locked down, um, how our teams, how our
teams we're managing, especially young families. I remember that as well.
I remember feeling just desperate for young families who were
(08:51):
in small apartments, who had no childcare. I think one
of the things that also really taught me was just
the importance of empathetic leadership. I mean, I've got to
I've got a kind of blurred background. Now many of
us have Zoom backgrounds on, and so you didn't even
know what was going on behind Zoom. So this idea
that someone could be in their bedroom where they wake up,
(09:12):
they get dressed, they go on to Zoom, they have
kids in the background, and they they spend the day
in their bedroom, and this that the toll as well
as kind of just focusing on how the business was
going to get through. The toll on our teams and
the you know, the mental as well as the physical
well being was was really tough as well. So I
think that was another thing that really focused me just
(09:33):
to support the team and make sure that that we
were really intentional about being empathetic. It's very easy if
you're seeing someone with the zoom background not to think
about what's going on behind that background. You've done lots
of interesting things and new things as global ahead of
hosting an Airbnb, tell us a little bit about your
work with refugees. Yes, that's that's been truly incredible. Um.
(09:57):
Airbnb dot org was actually was began its genesis was
in in two thousand and twelve with Hurricane Sandy and
one of our hosts, and this just highlights just the
incredible nature of our hosts. One of our hosts basically said,
during Hurricane Sandy, I'd like to open my home for
(10:18):
free to the victims, to the disaster victims, those who
have been displaced because of Hurricane Sandy. And so we
had to create the product to be able to offer
a home for free, and that that started what's called
basically open homes, where our hosts could opt in to
offer their homes for free or for a discount to
people in need. And people who need basically were refugees
(10:42):
or people displaced because of a disaster victim. That was
because of disasters like natural disasters like a hurricane or
wildfires or floods, and so that was our focus. And
then it really became kind of acute, first of all,
with with the Afghanistan crisis last year, and we moved
very quickly to work with agencies, with settlement agencies in
(11:05):
the US to house Afghan refugees. We've probably housed I
think I mean over well over twenty thousand to date
of Afghan refugees. And then the beginning of this year
was the conflict in Ukraine, and we committed to trying
to house a hundred thousand guests who've been displaced because
(11:25):
of this conflict. We're very close to that number, which
is incredible. And this really is our host community who
opt in. There are people who aren't hosts who also didn't.
I mean you, for example, if you're not an Airbnb host,
you could say I'd still like to opt into dot
org and I'm ready to house refugees or displace people
(11:46):
for a temporary period of time. And this is what
we see when we have these crisis and Airbnb dot org,
which is now five O one C three um philanthropic
arm of the company, we recruit Org hosts who open
their homes, they some offer them for free or discounted.
We will raise money. Dot org will raise the funds
(12:08):
and then we will give basically funding to agencies that
can help resettle people. And one of the real advantages
that that Airbnb has and dot org has because of
Airbnb structures is the technology. We are a platform where
we can connect guests and hosts, and so in the
case of dot or, we are a platform that at
(12:30):
scale can connect guests and need with hosts who are
prepared to house those guests and need. So it's it's
really an incredible, incredible part to you know, experience to
be part of and meeting our hosts and hearing the
stories of refugees and how it you know, it changes
their lives that are really vital moment in their journey.
(12:51):
So they're not they don't necessarily have to stay in camps.
They can spend a short period of time, a temporary
period in a home and our hosts will do everything
to support them, to introduce them to the local community.
They give them clothes and food, sometimes money. It's as
it really shows the best of the culture of Airbnb,
and I think it's a really interesting way to see
(13:13):
how the corporate world can play a part. It just
means tweaking your business a little bit, but finding a
way to UM to contribute. And I think that you
know that point of of contributing and also just you know,
how do you operationalize your values. It's such a it's
such an important idea, more important now than ever because
(13:34):
the expectations from your employees, from your guests, and from
our host we have from our host is, you know,
we want to be able to act in this space
so that the dot org arean and supporting refugee guests
is one. Sustainability might be another. Where so we're working
closely with our hosts. We know our guests seek that
(13:56):
our hosts really want to be able to indicate how
they are helping sustainable travel. We're making introductions UM in
we're running pilots in fact in a couple of countries,
trying to help our hosts access renewable energy UM and
so introducing them to to organizations that can help that
and then they can demonstrate that their homes are energy efficient,
(14:18):
that they have renewable energy. We know that that's really
important to them. But to your point of how the
businesses you know, tweet business models. It's it's really about
operationalizing those values, get them into your business as opposed
to them sitting apart as a kind of as a
as a commitment. Another thing, I know that the top
of your list is personal safety and guaranteeing the safety
(14:42):
of people who stay in an Airbnb accommodation. Now, one
of my colleagues at Bloomberg has reported extensively on unfortunate
incidents of sexual assault which have taken place at Airbnb properties,
which has also reported a lot and the huge efforts
you have taken in the steps of taking to improve safety.
(15:02):
Could you tell us a little bit about that, about
what you're doing to improve safety standards. So safety is
the number one priority for for Airbnb, and there is
something that that we're committed to. I mean, we had
we have you know, we've welcomed a billion guests on Airbnb.
The safety incidents are a fraction of the of the
(15:26):
of the knights or the trips, but you know they
we don't want them to happen. Clearly, however small the incident,
the number of incidents are and so we do a
lot to make sure that we have um standards in
place that both our hosts and our guests need to
commit to, and if they don't, we will take action
to remove guests or hosts that don't don't adhere to
(15:48):
those standards. We have a lot of technology that sit
with our Trust and Safety operations that detect risk ahead
of time UM, and so we will do that in
that US a way to identify reservations that we think
might be risky and how we prevent those from happening. UM.
It is incredibly important for us as well that you know,
(16:11):
not just our hosts and our guests are safe, but
the communities where our hosts live also feel safe. So
we had we have a neighborhood hotline that that neighbors
can ring if they feel that that something is going on.
So we were very focused on this all the time.
As I said, it's an absolute priority for us. I
want to talk a little bit about your personal life
and the two things that struck me when I was
(16:33):
reading up on your childhood was you grew up in
Hong Kong and I just moved to London from Hong
Kong two years ago, so I lived in Hong Kong
for a bit, And that you wanted to be a
ballet dancer when you were a little girl. Um, yes,
I had. I lived eight years in Hong Kong. Um.
We lived in Stanley and I went to I went
(16:55):
to school on the Peak. Um, so we we lived there.
I was aged eight to sixteen, so I mean really
formative years and and I loved it, absolutely loved it. Um.
And it was it was it was basically it was.
I think it was something that really triggered a a
(17:16):
real curiosity for travel and for different cultures. We did
so much travel in Southeast Asia when we lived there.
My parents would every every opportunity that we had to
go and visit the country, we would do that. UM.
And just learning about other cultures, meeting people, learning about
you know, foods and religion and dress and you know,
(17:37):
all of that was it was fantastic. So it really
kind of it triggered my my interests, I think, in
in travel and just in in global communities and global cultures.
How do you appeal about the situation in Hong Kong now, though,
I mean I just read that Hong Kong has had
its biggest exodus of people, you know, ever, I think
(17:58):
one point six percent of the pop Glacian left just
in the last twelve months. That's a huge number. And
just given the way they've handled the pandemic, the national
security log, Hong Kong doesn't feel the same, right. I
feel sad. I feel sad. We have I have friends
who are still there, and actually there's a there's a
(18:19):
group that we're together, what'sapp group, um and so, and
they're they're kind of sharing what's what's going on, and
it's you know, it's a I think it's a very
it's a very difficult period. Actually, I have to say
I haven't been back, um and I mean I I
think of it so funny, you know, when you've lived
somewhere also as a child, it's so nostalgic. But I
(18:41):
know it's changed a lot that I can't wait to
go back. But Hong Kong is just one of the
cities you've lived in. I know you're a true global citizen.
You've lived and working in Paris, in Sydney, and London
in the States, and you have three boys, each one
was born in a different country. Yes, I always say
my fun fact that I've given birth in three different languages,
(19:03):
in French, in German, and in English. And I always
laugh about the German one. If you know the German language,
you always have to put the verb at the end
of the sentence. I remember, I can literally remember trying
to construct the sentence, you know, in labor um. So yes,
I have my boys. Have they've you know, they've grown
(19:24):
up in different countries, They've they've lived. Yeah, they've lived
literally all over the world. They're all now with me
here in the US with my husband. Of course as well,
I should say, well here, how old are your boys?
That my youngest is twenty um? And is it the
college here in the US? My next one is twenty four,
(19:44):
and then my eldest is twenty six. How did that
shape you? Living and working in so many different parts
of the world. How has that shaped you as a
business leader? I think, you know, I think, I mean
I talked about kind of growing up in Hong Kong
um and and what that did in terms of just
just opening your eyes to the fact that, you know,
(20:06):
cultures are very different, communities are very different, and there's
a whole world to explore. Having the opportunity then to
go and live in different cities, live in different countries,
I think what it has done for me as a
as a leader. Is really helped me adapt too, particularly
to how do you know how does how do consumer
(20:27):
expectations and consumer behavior? How does consumer behavior change? If
you are a business and you're dealing with you have
products or a brand, UM and your your you know
your product you wanted to get into the hands of consumers,
how how is it different in each country and how
do you have to really understand the cultural nuances? And
(20:48):
this is everything from selling when I worked in Paris
very early on. So when after my husband and I
married and we moved to Paris because he's a he's
in the British Foreign was in the British Foreign So
of US and we were posted to the embassy there
UM and I worked in UM what we called audio
visual distribution, which is basically the licensing of TV shows
(21:09):
and films, and we licensed US and UK films to
French broadcasters. So I really had to understand what do
French consumers want to watch, when do they watch it,
what's the right you know, which channel broadcasts, what sort
of programming, what's the time slot? So you you begin
to understand how that changes, how that's different to what
(21:30):
I was used to in the UK for example, then
living in Australia and working then for Disney. It's about
the Disney brand and Disney products and how do Australians
view the Disney brand and what what is valuable for Australians,
what do they care about and how can we pivot
to make sure that we address those knees. And of
course you have the park and the park experience and
how the experience in Disney and Paris might differ to
(21:52):
the experience in Disneyland. So I think it makes you
incredibly attuned to know cultural differences so that you you
don't create this one size fits all or this one
template that you kind of roll out globally, that you
really understand how you need to adapt to a local culture,
adapt to local consumer needs as as a consumer expectations.
(22:15):
I know this is a really broad question, but if
you look back at your career at Disney, what do
you think what would you say is one of the
learnings you had at Disney that you're perhaps trying to
apply or to use as a leader at Airbnb. Gosh,
I mean fifteen years at Disney, there's a lot that
(22:35):
I learned, um, you know, and it it's so shaped
you know who I am, how I think, how I operate,
how I lead? Um, I well, I think one the
you know, the level of rigor that Disney expects, I
have to say that there's that same level of rigor
at Airbnb, but that you know, high expectations in ensuring
(22:58):
that you're you're you know, you're delivering excellence the whole
time and trying, you know, trying pushing yourself, pushing your
teams forward to deliver excellence. That that level of rigor
and focus was one thing. Um, definitely an understanding of
the that kind of sweet spot, if you'd like, that
(23:18):
nexus of of where creative content or the creative experience
you know, meet the consumer and what the consumer wants
and can be kind of you know, for want of
a better word, optimized commercially, which sounds very jogony, but
you know how I've always had as a through thread
of my career, how can the business, how can I
(23:39):
help the business grow leveraging content? Whatever that content might be.
It might be a film, or it might be you know,
an experience in the park, or now it's you know,
it's an experience or a stay on Airbnb. How can
I help grow the business by leveraging what that content
or experience is and helping meet the consumer needs. And
that was something that through the Disney brand I really
I learned and I worked with um intensing. That's definitely
(24:03):
something that I've brought with me to Airbnb. What the
how do you create the best possible guest experience, whether
it's a magical experience in the part or a magical
stay or an actual experience on Airbnb. Now, you're often
described as a senior woman executive. Was one of the
senior most women executives in Disney, one of the senior
(24:24):
most women executives at Airbnb. Does that bother you that
you're described with the woman tag woman executive or are
you proud of it? I'm kind of it's kind of that.
I am proud of it. Definitely very proud of it.
Um And I think it is necessary because I think
(24:49):
the role of a of a female role model is
still role model as a leader is so important, and
so what what bothers me is that it's still so
you know, they're is still a need for visible female
role models, but to be one, I'm very proud of
that and I take that very very seriously. I take
(25:09):
the fact that I am not just a leader, but
a woman leader very seriously. I know that women are
looking to me to see, you know, how is it done?
How how can I be that person? Can I? I mean,
it's really important as a as a female role model
that as a leader on this defines my my leadership
as well, that that I am accessible so that people
(25:34):
can see, you know, they see who I am and
they see I mean, vulnerability is another piece that I
talk a lot about. I have vulnerability as as I
think I kind of call it one of my superpowers
because I think if you're not and you don't kind
of acknowledge where where and when it's difficult, you you're
it's not relatable and then people can't see well, okay,
(25:55):
so this is this is how it is to get
to be a senior leader, and this is where the
difficult moments are, and this is how you ask for
help and this is how you show up um. And
I think that's very it's very very important. You know,
I share a lot um and have shared a lot
with with women leaders, younger leaders. I mentor as well,
both within Airbnb and outside of Airbnb and helping helping
(26:19):
them women on that path. It's so important not just
as a female leader that you take that seriously, but
that you sponsor, that you advocate, that you look at
your pipeline of leaders and make sure that you have
a pipeline of female leaders and and then you're equipping
them to be successful. And it is on it's on
all leaders to do that, men and women. But for
(26:42):
obvious reasons, there's I think there's you know, more of
a of a an expectation that a woman leader will
help because you're experiencing so much of what they're You
have experienced so much of what they're going through, you know.
I don't think I've heard anybody describe vulnerability as a superpower,
and I have to say I love it, and I
(27:03):
think it's really quite brave of you to say that.
Do you remember a time in your career when you
felt really, really vulnerable and can you talk a little
bit about how you pulled through? Yes, I've had. Yeah,
I've had many many times when I felt vonderable, as
we all do, by the way, I mean, we all
have moments of vulnerability. Um and any any move that
(27:25):
I have made which has been a lape in terms
of you know, what my experience to that date has
been and what I'm about to do. My first move
towards to Australia to be a general manager of eight
of business lines Disneys lines of business, and I was
an expert in one. I'd have been a deep you know,
(27:46):
general manager, deep expertise. And suddenly I was going to
be running multiple lines of business and so I was
going to have people in my team who knew way
more about that business than I did. And that was
about you know, that was a moment when it was like, Okay,
I have to show up as a leader, but I
also have to acknowledge that there are some things about
theatrical stage shows for example, that I've never done before,
(28:09):
or releasing a film that I've never done before. We
had Star Wars Episode seven coming up. I mean, it
was the stakes were high. So just you know, knowing
knowing believing that you know you can get through this
is kind of like the first step in any vulnerability
um and then knowing where and when to ask for help.
I mean that that moved to Australia was one moving
to Disney and Paris. I had never I had never
(28:32):
worked in the parks, and yet suddenly I was going
to have sixteen thousand people who are going to look
to me for leadership, and I, you know, I haven't
worked in the parts before, so that was you know,
if in fact, somebody I was doing a one of
my first town halls at Disney and Paris, I did.
I did. I held a women only one intentionally because
(28:52):
they had never ever been brought together, um women as
as a group, and I wanted to talk to them
as a as a woman. And I know, of you know,
having an intentional or femalechannel is in itself controversial because
you don't want to be excluding men. But I felt
it was so important for women to have a moment together,
to express things safely and to to hear from me.
(29:14):
And they asked, you know what my most kind of
vulnerable moment, I said, well, up to this point, I
mean it's today, it's now. It's being here in a
very public stage, knowing that if something goes wrong, it's
going to be very very public, but just believing that
you you know how and when to ask for help.
And that's the thing about vulnerability why I kind of
call it a superpower, is it gives you courage and
(29:37):
courage is a strength. Um. So, so you know that's
those are my times at Disney. And then you know,
coming to to air being beaten working in tech and
being a woman working in tech and not having a
tech background and needing to speak to my team, to
speak to engineers to gain that credibility. Um, when you
know you have a very different experience, you you literally
(30:00):
you use a different language, um. And and learning that. So,
I mean, each of these have been key moments and
I think it's you know, leaning into that and just
I mean I always say you need to get you
need to get vulnerability right. You can't be overly vulnerable
because everyone's gonna think, oh my god, she doesn't know
what she's doing. Um, you need that, you know, right dosage,
(30:20):
But it gives you strength. And I'm going back to
that point about being a female leader. That is what
people need to see because everyone feels it. And if
you don't manage vulnerability in the right way, it becomes shame,
It becomes self conscious shame, and then you just don't
want to do anything. I think you've explained that so
beautifully and it struck a quarter nodding away the whole
(30:42):
time and I'm sure a lot of people will really
learn and take a lot away from that. UM mentors you.
You mentor a lot of people within Airbnb and also externally.
Have you ever had one particular mentor who really stands
out as someone who has shaped you? I I'm often
(31:02):
asked this question, and I kind of I feel that
that there have been different mentor like relationships in my
life at different times who have helped me in different ways.
I have close friendships with my with friends, friends that
I've been to college with um who great yes, great
(31:28):
girlfriends I had. I have great girlfriends that that we
were you know, we were university together, that we still
stay together and who help we help each other. And
it is a form of mentorship because there are times
when you say, especially when you're getting married and having
children at the same time and trying to balance that
work life career, and it feeling at times that it's
just going so wrong having not just you know, someone
(31:50):
to share it with, but but also you know, giving
advice and help in a way that a mentor might do.
So there's there's friendship that's really important. And I've had
friends who are who are mentor um in Australia. You know,
Australia was it was the most fantastic country and experience
for our family to live in, but it was it
was a challenging environment. It's it's very it's very male dominated.
(32:13):
And and I had a group of women in this
kind of what felt like a male dominated world that
you know, the head of Twitter, the head of Microsoft,
the head of Google, um, they were the head of
of Intel. They were all women, um. And so there
were these amazingly strong women in tech and we created
this kind of this this group that we would we
(32:34):
would meet regularly together and again it was a support network,
but it was also kind of mentoring each other and
how do you how do you cope with this? And
you know, how how can you you know, what advice
can you give? And that was that was a nice
stayed I've stayed in touch on, I mean particularly and
two of them, Karen Stocks who is at a Twitter
and now is at Google, and Pitt Marlow who was
(32:55):
Microsoft and is now as salesforce coming to Airbnb. They
really helped me with the transition into into tech. I mean,
that was that was that was very very helpful just
in terms of what to expect as I said, the
different language you know that that tech can use, and
how to kind of prepare myself for that. And then
I've had I've had external people that I looked to
(33:18):
that that I admire hugely. I remember growing up with
Margaret Thatcher and I didn't I didn't necessarily, I wasn't
necessarily aligned with all her politics, but my goodness, as
a female leader, she was so powerful and impressive, and
I remember that really striking. So she didn't know, she
didn't mentor me, but she was, you know, a role model.
(33:39):
And the other one, you know, the other one when
I came to the US and read so much about
was Ruth Bader Ginsburg, which was another one that you
just think, Wow, you know women who are so strong
and are so clear about what their values are and
their principles and stick to them, and you're so clear.
I think that's something that helps shape me as a leader.
You realize how important expectations are. You as a leader
(34:05):
need to be so clear about what your teams can
expect of you and what you expect of them. And
I think where I've had, you know, great bosses who
have also been mentors, you know, or other people that
I've looked and admired. It's been it's been about that
you know exactly what you can expect from them. I
love this idea of the Gold Club that you have
women leaders in tech. What what would you talk about? Like?
(34:29):
What are some of the conversations you would have? Gosh,
I mean, you know when it ranged from everything, it's
it's as you could imagine what you would talk about
with your girlfriends. It can be from as as you
kind of as you grow up. It's it's the different
stages of your life. So it during my time in Australia,
when we talked together, it was about you know, it
(34:49):
was about some people were transitioning into another role, how
do you expect how do you prepare yourself for that?
Or they were having challenges with managing teams or specific
a specific issue. You know, we would talk through how
we had dealt with So, I mean, there's so many similarities,
(35:09):
even though the businesses were very different and Disney I
was in a very different business to them at that time,
but there are core elements of being a leader that
are just true to everyone. And so it's whether it's
dealing how to how to deal as a manager with
a difficult situation, or how to deal with your boss
in a difficult situation, how to transition out. And I
remember one of them was thinking of leaving her role,
(35:34):
and she was she was going through all the kind
of the criteria that she was asking herself and the
decision tree. If you like that she was using to
make this transition. That was incredibly useful for me. I
mean she was we were helping her through it. But
for me to hear how she was thinking through if
I move, these are the things that are really important
that I'm gonna be asking myself was incredibly helpful. If
(35:56):
your team had to describe your leadership style, I I
went to them and said, can you describe Gaston's leadership style?
What do you think that say? Um, I think they
would use the word empathetic. Um, I think they would
(36:17):
use the word Um, they might use humor. I think
I think humor is I think he is incredibly important.
I think, um, you know, clarity and help on on
problem solving, so being able to kind of unpack a
problem and find a creative solution, so kind of bias
for action. But in a let's you know, I think
(36:39):
they would use the word optimism, and I think optimism
is is about this like, hey, we can find a
way through this, you know, and I will, you know,
I can find kind of creative problem solve. Um. So
I think they'd use empathetic, optimistic, high energy, which is
I think for my team good and bad. Know. Um yeah,
(37:02):
I hope that they would. I hope they would think
humor as well. I think humans incredibly important. Oh, it
is absolutely And the last question is this podcast is
called out of Office. What's your favorite thing to do
when you're not in the office? Um, And that's that's
a more difficult question now that we work from home.
You know, how do I really try to kind of
create that separation between Um, well, I am very lucky
(37:23):
that I live in the Santa Monica Mountains in l A.
And so hiking, hiking and beach walks are I absolutely them.
Especially you know, we have a we have a dog,
um and so and with a first we're you know,
new to dog. I mean, we've had Aussie named after Australia,
um Azzie. We've had Assie for three years, so it's
(37:45):
pre pandemic. But um, you know, now I'll kind of
make sure that that that a lot of what we
do wekend we can do with assi, but hiking is
is hiking and the beach walks, which are the most
beautiful assets of California is probably is probably my favorite
things to do, something also that my husband and I
both enjoy. We don't always share the same interest, but
(38:07):
this this we do in hiking. I have to say,
with three boys, you know, hiking and hiking holidays is
we've done this since as soon as we thought they
were kind of strong enough to be able to walk
you know, more than an hour. So we've had we've
had I mean, you're you're in the UK at the moment.
We've walked most of the Southwest Coast Path trail. I
think that's the right way Southwest Coast Past trail around
(38:29):
kind of Cornwall and Devon, which is absolutely stunning and
if you haven't done it or parts of it, you
really should. It's beautiful that we would every holiday, every
half time, we would do chunks of that walk look
into ever you should, and with with young boys, it
was it was a good way to kind of exercise them,
(38:50):
keep them after after off the electronics, and make sure
they sleep well at night. Every mother's goal, Yes exactly.
Thank you so much for joining me and out of copie, Oh,
Madika is a pleasure. Thank you. That was Catherine Powell,
Global head of Hosting at Airbnb. I hope you enjoyed
(39:12):
our chat as much as I did, and make sure
you check out some of the other incredible conversations and
out of office. You'll find them on Spotify, Apple Podcasts,
Bloomberg dot Com, and of course, the Bloomberg Termino. This
episode was produced by Yang Yang. I'm Malika Kapoor. As always,
thank you for listening.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com